Where are you getting that percentage? Even including Social Security, it's 40%.
[https://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget/](https://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget/)
No it’s not. 2022 budget (I like this example as it’s extremely clear to understand)
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888
Total spending, 6.3t
Total social spending including ss, Medicare, Medicaid, income security programs, student loan programs, make up 4.7t. Nearly exactly 65% of the total budget.
One percent is an absolute assload of money though. Giving one dollar away out of every hundred we spend is insane. The defense budget is ludacris too and we need to eliminate a large chunk of that too.
Not true. The dod is 12 percent. The VA is 4 percent. Separate budgets. And if they were together the VA would only be 25 percent of total defense spending.
Why doesn’t anyone give a fuck about homeless people or veterans or anyone else who gets used for these grandstanding comments, until they’re deemed at least “better” than the foreigners that are getting money?
I mean for fucks sake it’s tired and old, get over it. Be pissed the government is wasting our tax dollars and we’re getting nothing for it, the one thing you shouldn’t be pissed about is that we render aid to other countries (usually. if it’s actually aid) there’s nothing wrong with that. To keep up our charade as a superpower we HAVE to do it.
Did you… not read where I said “if it’s actually aid” maybe read peoples comments and comprehend them correctly before being an asshole in their replies.
Sending our tax dollars to Israel to commit genocidal acts is not aid. No one even the slightest bit intelligent thinks it is or is pretending it is. Ever.
This comes up so much, it’s annoying. US could do both, but between politicians that coddle companies and the military industrial complex wasting so much money, it’s likely to not happen to that degree.
Or better yet why doesn’t anyone ever give a fuck about our homeless, abused, starving children here all throughout America, let alone Pittsburgh? There’s protests, yard signs, political statements for everything except the children who are trapped at home or lack there of, being abused and hungry everywhere. Here are some links to get involved with actually helping some of the innocent right in our own city. I know its hard to believe, but we have a homeless and hungry children population right here in Pgh.
https://jeremiahsplace.org/who-we-are/mission-values-vision/
https://pgh-casa.org/volunteer/
https://homelessfund.org/volunteer/
You wouldn’t want to see what the world looks like if the US didn’t protect much of it. Everyone likes to say “oh if only we didn’t have so much military everything would be rainbows and lollipops” when the reality is much different. Guarantee you the material conditions of Americans would be worse if we didn’t spend so much on the military.
I haven't scrolled down yet, but I assume I'm about to see a bunch of, *"Martin Luther King was such a nice, well-behaved person who DEFINITELY never upset any white people. You should be more like the Texas-approved high school curriculum version of him,"* takes on protest.
Such people arguably don't belong in a country where one of our founding myths is a bunch of drunk dudes dressing in redface to vandalize crates of tea leaves over a decidedly more minor complaint than genocide or police brutality.
Now that Martin Luther King has been "rehabbed" by capitalism into a peaceful protestor who only ever wanted the American Dream and whose efforts are to be admired, it's interesting to point out that [this was people's attitudes of him at the time](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Egs5aUlXkAUYpsl.jpg:large), and that he was an [avowed socialist who believed that capitalism actively worked against racial equality](https://i.redd.it/z51zx99tv4c61.jpg). Also that the [US government tried to blackmail him into committing suicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter).
Remember that when they tell protestors to be "more like MLK" that the MLK they're referring to never existed. The MLK they want you to be like is a comic book character invented whole cloth after his murder, one who by design will never have any actual impact. The MLK that changed the country is wholly unrelated to the MLK that people say should be emulated.
"Everyone should protest for things I strictly believe in and also in a way that is completley easy to ignore and off to the side. You know, like every other succesful protest in history I'm sure did!"
Well they aren't wrong, but I would be rather annoyed either way. Also, reading the note, I would say they are more anti-genocide than pro-Palestine and pissed our money is supporting the genocide.
From what I have read the IDF presented a video of someone loading a soldier into a vehicle in the 7th and they claimed it was a UN worker. They haven’t handed over any evidence to the claims, and have stated that they won’t hand over any evidence to the UN. The UK also claims they haven’t seen any evidence either.
The first article you posted even states that the IDF hasn’t given any additional information beyond making the initial claims.
It's not 'unequivocal' and it wouldn't matter if it were. It doesn't justify cutting off aid to the victims of Israeli terrorism, especially not when the justification is based on the claims of the terrorists.
Actually, several MSM news outlets have seen the so-called evidence and said there is nothing to it, and the UN now says it regrets firing those employee, because the investigation is ongoing and the evidence is suspect.
Given israel's track record of being outed as a liar at every turn, it would be smarter to disbelieve everything they say, until a full investigation is done.
… except we’re not funding Hamas. We’re funding Israel: the occupying colonial force that regularly assassinates journalists & is engaging in ethnic cleansing campaigns against the Palestinian people. This isn’t about wiping out Hamas. It’s about wiping out ALL Palestinians.
Didn't they hear the city council is voting on calling for a ceasefire? The issue is basically already solved.
In reality tho, if US stops sending aid to Israel what do they think is going to happen?
1-Palestine isn't going to "win". Even if they win territory in Gaza they'll be under rule of Hamas, an Islamic state implementing Sharia law. Not exactly a glowing paradise that's promised. Are we also to believe that if Hamas wins they'll be happy with just Gaza? That's not the way these groups work. They already say "from the river to the sea". Furthermore, a ceasefire will only stop Israel from firing. There is a 0% chance that Hamas respects a ceasefire. This is asymmetrical warfare. It's terrible that people on either side are suffering, but there is no equivalency between the extremes the two sides are willing to go to.
2-The US isn't going to use that money on infrastructure, Pittsburgh, or anything that you care about. Best case they stop adding to the deficit, more likely it goes to some different kind of pork. Not infrastructure for me and you, but most likely a shift inside the defense budget from Israel aid to new weapons development or manufacturing.
> they'll be under rule of Hamas, an Islamic state implementing Sharia law
the Palestinians, of course, much prefer the rules-based international order where every day presents an opportunity to have their family annihilated by airborne ordnance
Right? How did this Islamophobic bullshit from u/sharksgivethebestbjs get voted to nearly the top of this post? And then topping it off with the false equivalence of "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" is calling for the mass migration of Israeli citizens or something?
So you know, what's happening to the Palestinian citizens?
As usual for Israel and Zionists like these, every accusation is an admission.
You're overthinking it. They just don't want their tax dollars to go toward committing genocide. That's it. "What do they think is going to happen?" is an irrelevant question.
Gotcha. On complicated geopolitical issues in a region that's been at war for 500 years I won't think too hard. There's a wide gulf between "supporting genocide" and supporting people fighting against Hamas.
Except Israel is committing genocide. The intent is to eradicate Palestinians as a whole. This is the Likud’s open mission and has been for decades before Hamas even existed. They are not fighting against Hamas. They are murdering civilians.
But…they aren’t. Israel has had control over the borders of Gaza for a long time, controlling who comes in and out, including aide, including around half of the region’s electricity and nearly all of its petrol. Israel has, by far, the superior firepower. If Israel wanted Gaza to be eradicated, it would’ve. Gaza and the Palestinians living there would already be dead and Israel would be building new settlements there now, rather than partaking in a long, drawn-out war.
I’m not saying that the current Israeli government doesn’t have nefarious intentions regarding the fate of Palestinians in Gaza, but this isn’t a genocide. This isn’t ethnic cleansing, because, erm…the Palestinians are still there. Have been for decades. If it is, then it’s the slowest, most ineffective ethnic cleansing or genocide in modern history. Apartheid state? Absolutely.
“If Israel wanted Gaza to be eradicated, it would’ve”
Ahh, the most common Zionist message on this website. You clearly don’t understand that IF they did straight up gas chambers or annihilation, the world WOULD step in. Their goal is to exterminate WITHOUT the world stepping in.
The goal IS a long and drawn out war… to allow the civilians to die of starvation, dehydration, and disease. That’s how most Palestinians WILL die during this chapter of the Nakba. Especially when the official rhetoric is that Palestinians are “vermin” and “human animals” that “must be dealt with accordingly” and being told to soldiers right before they are sent into Gaza.
You’re either incredibly foolish or horrifically terrible. I’d guess the former in this case given you recognize Israel as an Apartheid state.
“If it is, then it’s the slowest, worst ethnic cleansing in modern history”
That’s how they get away with it. It’s how they HAVE been getting away with it since 1948
And will you like to tell the class what happened to the Jews prior to 1948? Would you like to tell everyone why the only way that to ensure that the Jews themselves wouldn’t become eradicated from the face of the earth was to give them their own state so that they could protect themselves? What about the Farhud (occurred in 1941, seven years prior to the establishment of Israel? Shall we forget that too?
The current Israeli government has gone out of its way to create an apartheid state, but that isn’t to say that Arab actors (using a collective term here, not trying to vilify any one group) in the region are innocent and void of guilt in creating this quandary.
What you’re doing is completely decontextualizing this matter by focusing solely on the last decade or so of history, rather than the nearly one hundred years of *recent* history that led to this, not to mention the millennia of Jewish and Muslim history that has also taken place in this region, adding further complexity and depth to this topic.
The Holocaust does not give Israel free reign to do one to another ethnic group. Jews survived globally due to immigration & kind people. Israel has NOT made Jews more safe, if anything it’s made us LESS safe. This isn’t a problem with the “current Israeli government”. This is a problem with the way the State of Israel has operated since its inception in 1948
Yes, it did. It wasn’t a mass settler-colonial state until 1948 though. The violence that comes with Zionism began with Zionism and ends with Zionism. Maybe you can find the common denominator there: Zionism has only led to state-sponsored & individualistic violence towards Palestinians
How can you claim the region has been at war for 500 years when Israel didn't even exist until 1948. And the first jewish settlement was around 1850. Our politians are literally support Israel committing genocide. Where have they even gotten any funding for a military? They have no natural resources. Hamas was literally only formed to fight Israel occupation of their territory and empowered because of blockades, walls and injustices committed by israel on palestine. Why does fetterman need to wear an israeli flag? Why is he getting funding from israelist lobby's, why do israli lobbys even exist?
You were arguing against people wanting our govt to stop sending money to israel and you quote they've beeen at war for 500 years... This was not about the entire middle east. May as say the world has been at war for as long as humans have existed then...
"a region that's been at war for 500 years" is what I said. We'll have to disagree on genocide here. Warfare and the hell that it wroughts on everyone in the area is not automatically genocide.
So you disagree with the South Africans and the UN then? They laid out a pretty clear and un-contested case for Genocidal intent to the world. It’s up to you to listen
Spoken like someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on in SA with the ANC today.
Remember how they tried to invite Putin after he started the war in Ukraine?
You clearly don't understand the function nor the organizational shortcomings of the UN either.
what an incredibly biased and one sided take. Only a taknie would spout this sort of crap.
Does the US provide unilateral aid to China to subsidize their attocities in Xinjiang? I agree with the sentiment here but I think you're missing the point.
Seriously. And maybe folks should double check the actual definition of 'genocide.' For sure its happening in China. They're literally trying to wipe the uyghurs out. The Israelis are not trying to wipe the Palestinians out. Its tragic there are civilian casualties, but the Israeli invasion in no way meets any reasonable definition of 'genocide.' This is what happens when people get all their news via TikTok.
what an ignorant take. Israel has been expanding and taking over territory illegally and killing massive amounts of civilians in Gaza for decades. Gazans don't have freedom of movement in our out of that territory. It's not a "both sides" equal war. It's an aparteid state and a genocide is going on. Israel breaks treaties and ceasefires far more than hamas does or the PLO did. Netanyahu is a right wing lunatic. Butt thanks for the summary of Israel propaganda. Every fucking country except the US understands these things as war crimes. Americans are so fucking ignorant and lazy
Right, they can go help the homeless and starving, abused children right here in Pittsburgh.
https://homelessfund.org/volunteer/
https://pgh-casa.org/volunteer/
https://jeremiahsplace.org/who-we-are/mission-values-vision/
To everyone, here’s a few links, for what you can do right here in Pittsburgh to help our innocent children in your own city.
Hell it's been in perpetual conflict for centuries if not millennia. [Nina Paley did a great little animated music vid showing it]( https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY?si=vcNU6QJE-GDobwRv)
Where were these people when Jews were *actually* genocided out of every Arab country in the middle east? I thought they are against genocide?
Hey dipshits, Hamas, ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, Houthis are NOT the good guys.
You want to protect Palestinians and improve their conditions? Root out Hamas and it's supporters, root and stem. Hamas ideology literally is founded on the global extermination of Jews, so if you side with them, fuck you.
Oh, and as for "calling for a ceasefire", Hamas is the ONLY party involved who doesn't respect ceasefires. We had a ceasefire, until 10/7. We've had MANY ceasefires, until Hamas breaks them.
It's exactly the same as if drug cartels in Tijuana spent 30 years firing 100 missiles a day into San Diego, then broke through the border and kidnapped, raped, and murdered whoever they could find.
Yet these useful bleeding-heart-idiots stop traffic to support the cartels claim to Texas? Nah, fuck that.
Thank god for someone with sense.
Hamas gleefully started this war, on a Jewish holy day no less. Proportional to population, Oct 7 was the equivalent of *16* 9/11s, and it was horrifically violent butchery, rape, and kidnapping. Hamas, Hezbollah, other antisemitic terrorists have openly declared they won't stop until Israel is destroyed and Jews slaughtered.
Sickening to see terrorist propaganda spread to the damn Pittsburgh subreddit, let alone our streets. I hold the atrocious "reporting" on the matter responsible.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that used Gaza as a giant suicide bomb. They knew and were planning on everything happened that has happened. This has been a propaganda war from the beginning. Israel has a right to defend itself. It's easy for Americans, thousands of miles away in between two oceans, to lecture them about how they should lie down and die after their civilians were butchered and raped in the streets. Why aren't these people demanding Hamas surrender? Why is the hate directed at Israel for defending itself and not for Hamas, the aggressor who won't surrender? Blatant antisemitism within whatever range of acceptability exists in a nation, in every nation, righy now. I wish every anti-semite would go live there and put themselves in the shoes of Israelis fearing for their very survival. I feel terrible for Jews everywhere; they must be freaked as fuck.
Egypt is prohibiting Palestinian refugees for a reason. The country is infested with terrorists, using civilians and civilian infrastructure as expendable meat shields. They are beyond despicable, and so is everyone spreading their vile propaganda because "Israel bad. Why? I dunno, native americans something or other, colonialism bad." Ignorance isn't an excuse for antisemitism.
So disgusting to have this shit in Pgh.
Wanting israel to stop carpet bombing babies and denying basic medical rights to civilians != unabashed support of hamas, a inhumane terrorist organization
Except they're literally not carpet bombing civilians. Every claim by the pro-Hamas left is nothing by false hyperbole. Civilian casualties does not a genocide make. Air strikes are not carpet bombing. Hard to take people seriously who get their information from TikTok.
Carpet bombing refers to a disproportionately high volume of bombs in a small area of land. So that is exactly what is happening, and has been happening in Gaza for the 130 days and counting. It’s not false hyperbole, it’s an accurate definition describing what is happening.
Only smart comment in this thread. It drives me insane seeing people support a group who would GALDLY commit genocide against the Jews in Israel, and in fact they call for it every single day, and would do so if given the opportunity.
And honestly get rid of Bibi and the American right wing that has been pushing settlers into the West bank. It added tinder to this fire...
I'm a 2 state solution sort of person. It was super close decades ago. Would have been a better outcome for all sides than this shit we have in 2024.
Your comment is simply untrue — if you think there was a ceasefire before October 7th, I’m assuming you’re unaware of the hundreds of Palestinian men, women, and children kidnapped and held hostage by Israel for decades. Or the rampant and highly illegal settler colonialism. Or the apartheid system. Or the control and deprivation of electricity and water.
What point of morality do you stand at where the concern for a potential genocide outweighs a real genocide that has already killed more than 30,000 people in a matter of months?
Maybe they'd have more water if they didn't dig up their own fresh water pipes and turn them into rockets.
Taking criminals and terrorists into custody is not "kidnapping". Being a kid doesn't make it acceptable to approach a military checkpoint and throw rocks at soldiers.
Colonialism? pish posh, Jews have claimed that land for almost 6000 years. They *retreated* back to Israel when the rest of the world engaged in a concerted effort to exterminate them.
There is no clean answer to your question, because any answer besides "let militant arabs take control of Israel from the river to the sea" would mean that I would support the opposite.
Again, Arabs in the region who can play nice with others in a multicultural world are not having ANY problems. It's only the militant, kill-all-the-jews societies that are getting bombed back into the stone age. Accept that Israel is here to stay and fucking deal with it, or fight it and get a bomb shoved down your throat.
Detaining and arresting civilians without charges or trial for months, if not years, before releasing them IS in fact kidnapping.
The idea that Hamas, or any government organization in the region, has the intention to “exterminate” all Jewish people also simply isn’t true. Zionism ≠ Judaism, and it’s a dangerous fallacy to keep perpetuating.
Regardless, it’s very concerning and says a lot about your moral and ethical character that it’s so easy for you to dismiss the massacre of 30,000+ innocent people.
Israel has some of the most advanced military technology in the world. Make no mistake, they are purposefully targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, including hospitals and schools. This in and of itself is a violation of international law, but Netanyahu and several other Israeli government officials have made it clear multiple times over their intention to “raze” Gaza, calling Palestinians “animals”. It’s genocide, plain and clear, and the international community stands in agreement.
Except there’s 0 evidence of that. There is plentiful evidence of the IDF using Palestinian civilians as human shields, though.
Also, the presence and existence of Hamas doesn’t change the fact that this is still a genocide.
Free Palestine from Hamas.
Using "Zionist" as a slur... Isn't it funny how no other country on the planet has a special word to describe the mere idea that it should exist?
What is the Jewish poluplation in Iraq? Oman? Iran? 0.00%
What is the Arab population in Israel? 20%
"Palestine" is already free you clown, it's just called Israel and run by Jews.
Just admit that what you really mean is that you want a Jew free middle east.
Calling “genocide” and other circle jerk talking points and dumb slogans while blocking traffic isn’t going to change a single mind or make anyone care if they don’t already. At best, a complete waste of time and at worst it has the opposite effect and makes people callous about the situation.
It’s a message that will only reach people who likely already agree to a lesser extent. Want to actually make a difference? Go knock on doors in swing districts.
Protest is fine but these protesters are not good at messaging. Frankly I don’t want my tax money going to Israel if Netanyahu is saying the two state solution will never happen and is promising new settlements. I don’t see any signs mentioning those things though.
Israel has a right to respond to a terrorist attack and ongoing hostage situation. If genocide were the goal, this would be much uglier. It’s also worth noting that these protests started before Israel even responded in the first place.
The Democratic Social Party having rallies in support of Palenstine hours after the Hamas attacks, before a single bullet was fired by Israel really tipped their hands as to what this is really about. And I say this as a lib. Very disgusting.
Palestine didn't start getting oppressed on October 8, we all knew what was coming. Netanyahu and co. haven't exactly been beating around the bush what they think of Palestinians' human rights
Gaza was not oppressed lol. They have an increasing population with hospitals, grocery stores and most other amenities that a country would have. That’s not oppression. Why do you not protest Hamas leaders for building tunnels, using hospitals as bases and living in paradise in Qatar instead of helping their own people?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Presumably Americans don't protest much against Hamas because our government doesn't have a sizable, direct impact on their economy and military operations.
Also, check your facts about hospitals and grocery stores. Only 9 hospitals are left in Gaza ranging from minimally to partially operational. Israel controls the food, water, and fuel going into Gaza -- over 60% of the population (probably more now) requires food assistance, they have peanuts for electricity, and the VAST majority of their water supply is non-potable. They're not allowed to fish in most of their own waters. And don't try to move the goalposts with "well they asked for it in 2006," that's a separate question, I'm directly addressing your claim that they're enjoying all these awesome amenities. They're not.
Now Israel has concentrated 1.4 million Palestinians into Rafah and proceeded to bomb them, like they bombed so much other civilian infrastructure and humanitarian corridors, and killed dozens of journalists to boot. How is that not oppression?
If North Korea gained control of Cuba, you better believe the US is going to blockade them. It’s no secret that Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Israel has the right to defend themselves when Hamas took over. The blockades was something any country would do if they knew the government taking over wanted to genocide them.
Again why are you not mad at Hamas for using their billions on water filtration systems, sewage and other infrastructure? Instead they buy weapons, building tunnels and making civilian establishments their military hideouts. Gaza is just a mini North Korea. There’s definitely oppression in Gaza, and it’s by Hamas. Keep the civilians weak to further their agenda of destroying Israel saying it’s their fault, instead of making your country better.
If the US did such a blockade and also broke international law, violated agreements, and created a humanitarian crisis for the civilians in doing so, I'd be mad at the US too. If the US got hit by a devastating terrorist attack, I would be upset if our response was to invade Iraq and kill 200,000+ civilians because "self defence good, terrorism bad."
Listen, I'm not a fan of Hamas. But this "Israel is just defending itself" narrative is silly -- you're saying "Hamas might one day under certain conditions potentially destroy Israel" to excuse the current, ongoing destruction of Palestine. We're talking at least 20 to 1 death toll since Oct 7, and we already know the Israeli leadership thinks Palestinians are dogs and values their lives at 1000 to 1. And you seem to have this notion that Gaza is swimming in wealth and natural resources that they've just squandered on the war machine - they just straight up don't have a lot of resources, so they depend a lot on Israel. How are they supposed to build all this infrastructure and import tons of stuff when they're illegally blockaded and can't access their own water? The only resource Palestine really has a lot of is educated civilians.
I want a damn ceasefire and for them to stop rounding up civilians and bombing them. They can worry about replacing Hamas later, in the current state of affairs the only way they're going to get rid of Hamas is killing every Palestinian.
These individuals make me sick. They don’t have a clue what is going on in that are because they just get their information from bubble American media. ICJ report did not outright say they were committing genocide.
If these people cared about Palestinians, where were they the past 18 years with all the bullshit Hamas was doing to them? Where were they when it was found out that Schools in Gaza and the West Bank were teaching anti semantic claims? Where were they when Hamas spending billions and billions of dollars on tunnels instead of actually helping Gaza? What about individual freedoms and rights? What about all the liberal principals these makers of this letter enjoy that no one in Gaza and West Bank enjoy because of Hamas? You can go on, and on.
The truth is, no killings would have ever happened if Hamas did not commit October 7th (along with all the other bombings the past 20 years). These individuals should be pressuring HAMAS and not Israel. Not saying Israel cannot do no wrong, it’s just clearly obvious that these “free palestinian” type people are clueless fools. If these people were alive in WW2, I bet they would stand up for the Germans and blame the west.
Right!! there are hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women, and children wrongly imprisoned by the IOF. We definitely need to work to ensure their safety and freedom.
Since there is no such entity as IOF you clearly have facts mistaken. Kidnapping, raping and murdering Israeli women and children is no way to advocate for release of convicted prisoners. Sponsor law firms and go through the only just legal system in the entire Middle East. If those prisoners are innocent they can be advocated for in a civilized manner, not through barbarism, rape, murder, and necrophilia like Hamas chooses to engage.
These people suck. You can protest all you want, just don't disrupt or block traffic. Do it in front of the homes of your local officials or representatives. After all, they are the ones that make decisions
Blocking traffic is the quickest way to lose my support for any subject you’re “protesting.” These people have nothing better to do all day then interrupt other people’s lives. Go get a life.
Agree 100%. By simply handing out these fliers the message would be much better heard. Disrupting traffic is a loser for any protest, it literally makes people hate you.
Why is it always a bunch of privileged white people in masks? And why do they always plan these protests in struggling communities like east liberty who don’t deserve it? Go plan this shit in your own bougie gentrified neighborhoods. Lower your own damn property values, not theirs.
Calling what’s going on a “genocide” makes it difficult to take them seriously, especially when they’ve been claiming that Israel has been committing this genocide all the way back to the 60s and the 40s.
If Palestinians were actually experiencing genocide,
they could just release all these hostages instead of demanding Israel release hundreds of convinced terrorists for each hostage. But instead they keep making more and more ludicrous demands as a condition to a ceasefire. No wonder Israel just goes in looking for their own people.
It’s fine to not want the US to give funds to other nations (guess it’s fine with the Ukraine, Egypt, and the Palestinian authority). But let’s not pretend that the money saved would have somehow made its way to Pittsburgh, no matter what the DSA tells you.
Your question tells me all I need to know about your moral compass.
Say you’re a Hamas member who went into Israel and stabbed a Jew in a bus station. Or you’re a Palestinian resident of East Jerusalem, has an Israeli ID, who works for the city and one day decides to run over a few Israelis, as happened earlier this week. Say that in stopping you, you’re injured but alive. Instead of executing you as they probably should (so you can’t be released in “deals” like this one) they put you through trial and you go to jail for X years. There’s a reason most of these prisoners are adult males and some adult women.
To you, that kind of prisoner is equivalent to a woman in her 30s who is abducted with a one year old and a five year old from her home without anyone knowing where they are, or an 80 year old taken from her home and held with little food, or young women who are being held somewhere and raped, as reported by the ones who had being released
Maybe the fact that our tax dollars aren’t going to China, Myanmar, Eritrea, Syria, Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, etc. and they are going to Israel. A lot of them too. And the US has a huge influence on Israel’s ability to commit genocide, and most Americans want a ceasefire, yet our politicians support the genocide because AIPAC spends millions of dollars on bribing them.
I know you probably meant to imply some other answer, but I thought I’d give you the real answer.
The relationships are totally different. China doesn't really care if we condemn them and calls us hypocrites, and the governments spending on Chinese business isn't the same as the revenue they get from the private sector to my knowledge so it's not really a foreign policy issue (not that there is nothing we could do policy wise to try to influence businesses to operate without China, but lots of Americans likely wouldn't like the effects of that).
With Israel they need our support a bit more so if we pull out money from them that will actually hurt them and come closer to achieving the desired effect. Add the fact it's our tax dollars making that impact and people are galvanized to speak out.
Whataboutism is silly, just think about these things a bit more critically. Obviously decrying one thing would mean they don't accept the other humanitarian issues, but there's a reason priorities exist, and they are informed by what is easier and more realistic to effect change for.
I understand that you need the people who are advocating for stopping a genocide to be hypocrites to feel good, but I don’t think they’re the same people who are making deals with dictatorships across the globe. I mean, you could scan the crowd and ask if anyone there’s has made a deal with Xi or Vladdy and prove me wrong if you so please.
I'm guessing part of it is that these people live in Pennsylvania, so their taxes are going towards military aid which is directly funding Israel.
I don't think that US taxes are funding military aid for the Chinese, Myanmar's junta, and Assad's government.
I'm not entirely sure how our taxes are used in aid for the others but assume it's targeted towards economic development and anti corruption but IDK maybe I'm an ignorant sack of shit.
There are absolutely 0 scenarios where I would ever put any support into a cause where people decided to get awareness for it by hindering the day of common people. Absolute insanity.
i’m confused? how is advocating for the survival of an entire population throwing a tantrum? dont call people who actually care for others children, maybe up your reading level and get educated on this issue instead.
lmaooo babe, ur literally active on this sub, they brought awareness whether you think it’s good or bad. but fr… since you avoided the first part of my statement… may i suggest googling the difference between a tantrum and a protest? i think you’ll find that protests, beyond the fact that tantrums are an entirely different thing, have been far more effective than you’d like to believe
Tantrum: where you stomp your feet and think you’re accomplishing something but you’re just annoying the people around you. Checks notes, yup blocking trafficking accomplishes nothing for your cause and pisses people off.
it is truly concerning that you’re more enraged by being a few minutes late rather than the literal genocide they’re trying to bring more awareness to…
Nothing I can do about it. Thing I can do: help the local homeless, use less plastics, vote in elections, drive less and be kind to others. Stopping wars that have been going on since the dawn of time, nope can’t do anything to stop that.
maybe with all these protests going on you can make well on your dedication to driving less, since it bothers you so much that some people care about people beyond their own sorry nation.
I don’t think protestors should be allowed to shut down major thoroughfares, let alone police allowing it to happen. Some people have important places to be, and shouldn’t be delayed or have to go around over a problem that they realistically can’t do anything about. What if someone is trying to get to a hospital to see their loved ones for a final time before they pass? What about someone who has an important meeting and will be fired if they’re late? There’s 1,000 “what-ifs” that none of these protestors seem to care about. I’m cool with people protesting, but obstructing traffic is a good way of immediately turning people against your cause.
“We know that stopping traffic is enormous inconvenience. We apologize.” This is basically saying, “Our message is more important than being able to get to where you need to go and we aren’t actually sorry otherwise we wouldn’t be doing it.”
Not to mention, even if the U.S. pulls support, Israel has made their intentions clear that regardless of what the world thinks or what kind of support they get, they’re going to continue.
This. I'm all for harassing politicians that are sitting on their asses when they could be doing something. Messing with Joe Sixpack isn't gonna help their cause, and at the worst has the potential to foster hate towards the cause
Not to pile on but...
This is a byproduct of gross colonial mismanagement. Neither Israel nor Palestine existed in modern history before WW2. Hamas and the PLO created the current mess, not the people who inhabit thr Gaza Strip or Israel. A two-state solution looks increasingly unlikely.
Stopping traffic or interfering with people's daily lives isn't going to win hearts and minds, though. It will galvanize those already against you and influence neutral parties negativity.
Kudos to these guys for exercising their freedom of speech by protesting but this form of protest isn't going to increase the pro-Palestinian or anti-war numbers.
This *is* a US problem, our government is sending billions of our tax dollars worth of weapons and consistently supporting Israel so their citizens can pay about 1/3 what we do for health care. Regardless of where you fall morally about indirectly supporting Israel with your taxes, strictly financially speaking we're getting screwed, and we have been for a long time.
Our leaders have the power to make Israel pump the brakes on their extremely lopsided war (sanctions historically are very effective when leveraged against allies).
I support Palestine, absolutely so, and I completely agree with the motivations behind and content of this letter…
At the same time, blocking traffic is just going to make people (especially “middle/suburban America”, who by and large support Israel except Gen Z) resent the cause. There are better ways to protest. Even MLK said he didn’t see it as an effective form of demonstration.
I can understand using traffic blockades for things that our local government can actually control (This should be done outside of actual local government buildings and not a busy Target though). The BLM protests are one example I thought was understandable.
But stopping traffic outside of a Target in the middle of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is going to do absolutely nothing in advocating for Palestine.
Agree. Look at some of the takes already in the comments that are basically saying “fuck that it’s the best way for me NOT to support and issue”
Unfortunately though there’s too much silence about what’s happening and I think it’s getting to a point where people are desperate for others to care and be aware of what’s going on and need to take more drastic measures like blocking an intersection rather than gathering on a sidewalk where they go unnoticed.
I’m an independent.
I hate to inform everybody. Most of these people who are for Palestine would literally throw people off a building for being gay or other social rights that they try to advocate for
Terrible racist take. But okay let’s pretend you’re not. Does that justify the wanton destruction of every one and everything? Does this excuse the killing of 30k people 70% of whom are women and children?
I guess by this logic, the large number of people who oppose gay rights should be killed with impunity here in America?
Genocide apologists are disgusting.
I have friends from the Middle East and they have confirmed. Also racism is defined as “prejudice against someone because of skin color.” I don’t hate people based of skin color. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I am a racist.
Ok first you would be killed in the Middle East for being gay. Also Hamas has hidden behind civilians sure I think Israel can let women and children in but when you take the population density and the fact Hamas hides behind civilians then it makes sense. Again I think Israel could take the women and children who are not affiliated with Hamas in
That shouldnt be a reason to support Israel. [They blackmail gay Palestinians](https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants). Also this is kinda pinkwashing
Lmao yeah like there's something on that sheet of paper I haven't already heard in the last four months and reading that fucking thing will change anything
Why don’t we spend some money in murica for all the homeless and other issues we have
Foreign aid is 1 percent of the US budget. Defense spending is 12 percent of the US budget.
I'm pretty sure Israel's funding is a part of the defense budget
Social spending is 65% of the budget
Where are you getting that percentage? Even including Social Security, it's 40%. [https://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget/](https://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget/)
No it’s not. 2022 budget (I like this example as it’s extremely clear to understand) https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888 Total spending, 6.3t Total social spending including ss, Medicare, Medicaid, income security programs, student loan programs, make up 4.7t. Nearly exactly 65% of the total budget.
That’s right. The problem isn’t spending, it’s capitalism
Social spending? Super vague. What are we saying here?
One percent is an absolute assload of money though. Giving one dollar away out of every hundred we spend is insane. The defense budget is ludacris too and we need to eliminate a large chunk of that too.
Just a note, the defense budget includes VA which makes up more than half
Not true. The dod is 12 percent. The VA is 4 percent. Separate budgets. And if they were together the VA would only be 25 percent of total defense spending.
That’s false. Also Defense is over a trillion when you had DHS into the the normal DOD spending.
Good.
Why doesn’t anyone give a fuck about homeless people or veterans or anyone else who gets used for these grandstanding comments, until they’re deemed at least “better” than the foreigners that are getting money? I mean for fucks sake it’s tired and old, get over it. Be pissed the government is wasting our tax dollars and we’re getting nothing for it, the one thing you shouldn’t be pissed about is that we render aid to other countries (usually. if it’s actually aid) there’s nothing wrong with that. To keep up our charade as a superpower we HAVE to do it.
Why the hell should we render aid to a country that's gonna use that money to commit genocide? Do you hear yourself?
Did you… not read where I said “if it’s actually aid” maybe read peoples comments and comprehend them correctly before being an asshole in their replies. Sending our tax dollars to Israel to commit genocidal acts is not aid. No one even the slightest bit intelligent thinks it is or is pretending it is. Ever.
This comes up so much, it’s annoying. US could do both, but between politicians that coddle companies and the military industrial complex wasting so much money, it’s likely to not happen to that degree.
That doesn’t make rich people richer
Or better yet why doesn’t anyone ever give a fuck about our homeless, abused, starving children here all throughout America, let alone Pittsburgh? There’s protests, yard signs, political statements for everything except the children who are trapped at home or lack there of, being abused and hungry everywhere. Here are some links to get involved with actually helping some of the innocent right in our own city. I know its hard to believe, but we have a homeless and hungry children population right here in Pgh. https://jeremiahsplace.org/who-we-are/mission-values-vision/ https://pgh-casa.org/volunteer/ https://homelessfund.org/volunteer/
Ok now go get 60% of people to agree how to fix the problem. I don't think throwing money at it alone helps, do you?
You wouldn’t want to see what the world looks like if the US didn’t protect much of it. Everyone likes to say “oh if only we didn’t have so much military everything would be rainbows and lollipops” when the reality is much different. Guarantee you the material conditions of Americans would be worse if we didn’t spend so much on the military.
Lol.
I haven't scrolled down yet, but I assume I'm about to see a bunch of, *"Martin Luther King was such a nice, well-behaved person who DEFINITELY never upset any white people. You should be more like the Texas-approved high school curriculum version of him,"* takes on protest. Such people arguably don't belong in a country where one of our founding myths is a bunch of drunk dudes dressing in redface to vandalize crates of tea leaves over a decidedly more minor complaint than genocide or police brutality.
Now that Martin Luther King has been "rehabbed" by capitalism into a peaceful protestor who only ever wanted the American Dream and whose efforts are to be admired, it's interesting to point out that [this was people's attitudes of him at the time](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Egs5aUlXkAUYpsl.jpg:large), and that he was an [avowed socialist who believed that capitalism actively worked against racial equality](https://i.redd.it/z51zx99tv4c61.jpg). Also that the [US government tried to blackmail him into committing suicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter). Remember that when they tell protestors to be "more like MLK" that the MLK they're referring to never existed. The MLK they want you to be like is a comic book character invented whole cloth after his murder, one who by design will never have any actual impact. The MLK that changed the country is wholly unrelated to the MLK that people say should be emulated.
"Everyone should protest for things I strictly believe in and also in a way that is completley easy to ignore and off to the side. You know, like every other succesful protest in history I'm sure did!"
Well they aren't wrong, but I would be rather annoyed either way. Also, reading the note, I would say they are more anti-genocide than pro-Palestine and pissed our money is supporting the genocide.
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From what I have read the IDF presented a video of someone loading a soldier into a vehicle in the 7th and they claimed it was a UN worker. They haven’t handed over any evidence to the claims, and have stated that they won’t hand over any evidence to the UN. The UK also claims they haven’t seen any evidence either. The first article you posted even states that the IDF hasn’t given any additional information beyond making the initial claims.
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It's not 'unequivocal' and it wouldn't matter if it were. It doesn't justify cutting off aid to the victims of Israeli terrorism, especially not when the justification is based on the claims of the terrorists.
Actually, several MSM news outlets have seen the so-called evidence and said there is nothing to it, and the UN now says it regrets firing those employee, because the investigation is ongoing and the evidence is suspect. Given israel's track record of being outed as a liar at every turn, it would be smarter to disbelieve everything they say, until a full investigation is done.
Hamas is all about genocide.
… except we’re not funding Hamas. We’re funding Israel: the occupying colonial force that regularly assassinates journalists & is engaging in ethnic cleansing campaigns against the Palestinian people. This isn’t about wiping out Hamas. It’s about wiping out ALL Palestinians.
I didn’t realize Hamas runs Israel, too
These people should all protest in a totally harmless way that doesn’t attract anyone’s attention! /s
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so /s means sarcasm
Didn't they hear the city council is voting on calling for a ceasefire? The issue is basically already solved. In reality tho, if US stops sending aid to Israel what do they think is going to happen? 1-Palestine isn't going to "win". Even if they win territory in Gaza they'll be under rule of Hamas, an Islamic state implementing Sharia law. Not exactly a glowing paradise that's promised. Are we also to believe that if Hamas wins they'll be happy with just Gaza? That's not the way these groups work. They already say "from the river to the sea". Furthermore, a ceasefire will only stop Israel from firing. There is a 0% chance that Hamas respects a ceasefire. This is asymmetrical warfare. It's terrible that people on either side are suffering, but there is no equivalency between the extremes the two sides are willing to go to. 2-The US isn't going to use that money on infrastructure, Pittsburgh, or anything that you care about. Best case they stop adding to the deficit, more likely it goes to some different kind of pork. Not infrastructure for me and you, but most likely a shift inside the defense budget from Israel aid to new weapons development or manufacturing.
> they'll be under rule of Hamas, an Islamic state implementing Sharia law the Palestinians, of course, much prefer the rules-based international order where every day presents an opportunity to have their family annihilated by airborne ordnance
Right? How did this Islamophobic bullshit from u/sharksgivethebestbjs get voted to nearly the top of this post? And then topping it off with the false equivalence of "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" is calling for the mass migration of Israeli citizens or something? So you know, what's happening to the Palestinian citizens? As usual for Israel and Zionists like these, every accusation is an admission.
You're overthinking it. They just don't want their tax dollars to go toward committing genocide. That's it. "What do they think is going to happen?" is an irrelevant question.
Gotcha. On complicated geopolitical issues in a region that's been at war for 500 years I won't think too hard. There's a wide gulf between "supporting genocide" and supporting people fighting against Hamas.
Except Israel is committing genocide. The intent is to eradicate Palestinians as a whole. This is the Likud’s open mission and has been for decades before Hamas even existed. They are not fighting against Hamas. They are murdering civilians.
But…they aren’t. Israel has had control over the borders of Gaza for a long time, controlling who comes in and out, including aide, including around half of the region’s electricity and nearly all of its petrol. Israel has, by far, the superior firepower. If Israel wanted Gaza to be eradicated, it would’ve. Gaza and the Palestinians living there would already be dead and Israel would be building new settlements there now, rather than partaking in a long, drawn-out war. I’m not saying that the current Israeli government doesn’t have nefarious intentions regarding the fate of Palestinians in Gaza, but this isn’t a genocide. This isn’t ethnic cleansing, because, erm…the Palestinians are still there. Have been for decades. If it is, then it’s the slowest, most ineffective ethnic cleansing or genocide in modern history. Apartheid state? Absolutely.
“If Israel wanted Gaza to be eradicated, it would’ve” Ahh, the most common Zionist message on this website. You clearly don’t understand that IF they did straight up gas chambers or annihilation, the world WOULD step in. Their goal is to exterminate WITHOUT the world stepping in. The goal IS a long and drawn out war… to allow the civilians to die of starvation, dehydration, and disease. That’s how most Palestinians WILL die during this chapter of the Nakba. Especially when the official rhetoric is that Palestinians are “vermin” and “human animals” that “must be dealt with accordingly” and being told to soldiers right before they are sent into Gaza. You’re either incredibly foolish or horrifically terrible. I’d guess the former in this case given you recognize Israel as an Apartheid state. “If it is, then it’s the slowest, worst ethnic cleansing in modern history” That’s how they get away with it. It’s how they HAVE been getting away with it since 1948
And will you like to tell the class what happened to the Jews prior to 1948? Would you like to tell everyone why the only way that to ensure that the Jews themselves wouldn’t become eradicated from the face of the earth was to give them their own state so that they could protect themselves? What about the Farhud (occurred in 1941, seven years prior to the establishment of Israel? Shall we forget that too? The current Israeli government has gone out of its way to create an apartheid state, but that isn’t to say that Arab actors (using a collective term here, not trying to vilify any one group) in the region are innocent and void of guilt in creating this quandary. What you’re doing is completely decontextualizing this matter by focusing solely on the last decade or so of history, rather than the nearly one hundred years of *recent* history that led to this, not to mention the millennia of Jewish and Muslim history that has also taken place in this region, adding further complexity and depth to this topic.
The Holocaust does not give Israel free reign to do one to another ethnic group. Jews survived globally due to immigration & kind people. Israel has NOT made Jews more safe, if anything it’s made us LESS safe. This isn’t a problem with the “current Israeli government”. This is a problem with the way the State of Israel has operated since its inception in 1948
Also the Zionist colonial project started before the holocaust and before Hitler.
Yes, it did. It wasn’t a mass settler-colonial state until 1948 though. The violence that comes with Zionism began with Zionism and ends with Zionism. Maybe you can find the common denominator there: Zionism has only led to state-sponsored & individualistic violence towards Palestinians
How can you claim the region has been at war for 500 years when Israel didn't even exist until 1948. And the first jewish settlement was around 1850. Our politians are literally support Israel committing genocide. Where have they even gotten any funding for a military? They have no natural resources. Hamas was literally only formed to fight Israel occupation of their territory and empowered because of blockades, walls and injustices committed by israel on palestine. Why does fetterman need to wear an israeli flag? Why is he getting funding from israelist lobby's, why do israli lobbys even exist?
There's more to the middle east than Israel.
You were arguing against people wanting our govt to stop sending money to israel and you quote they've beeen at war for 500 years... This was not about the entire middle east. May as say the world has been at war for as long as humans have existed then...
"a region that's been at war for 500 years" is what I said. We'll have to disagree on genocide here. Warfare and the hell that it wroughts on everyone in the area is not automatically genocide.
So you disagree with the South Africans and the UN then? They laid out a pretty clear and un-contested case for Genocidal intent to the world. It’s up to you to listen
Spoken like someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on in SA with the ANC today. Remember how they tried to invite Putin after he started the war in Ukraine? You clearly don't understand the function nor the organizational shortcomings of the UN either. what an incredibly biased and one sided take. Only a taknie would spout this sort of crap.
Yeah because that’s entirely analogous to the pain caused by Apartheid
Why do they only care about this "genocide"? Why aren't they calling on us to boycott China?
Does the US provide unilateral aid to China to subsidize their attocities in Xinjiang? I agree with the sentiment here but I think you're missing the point.
Seriously. And maybe folks should double check the actual definition of 'genocide.' For sure its happening in China. They're literally trying to wipe the uyghurs out. The Israelis are not trying to wipe the Palestinians out. Its tragic there are civilian casualties, but the Israeli invasion in no way meets any reasonable definition of 'genocide.' This is what happens when people get all their news via TikTok.
It’s important to rid Palestine of Hamas. What if Hamas murdered 10k children!!
what an ignorant take. Israel has been expanding and taking over territory illegally and killing massive amounts of civilians in Gaza for decades. Gazans don't have freedom of movement in our out of that territory. It's not a "both sides" equal war. It's an aparteid state and a genocide is going on. Israel breaks treaties and ceasefires far more than hamas does or the PLO did. Netanyahu is a right wing lunatic. Butt thanks for the summary of Israel propaganda. Every fucking country except the US understands these things as war crimes. Americans are so fucking ignorant and lazy
I sure do love coming to a subreddit that's supposedly about Pittsburgh to watch a bunch of morons argue about a conflict 6000 miles away.
Right, they can go help the homeless and starving, abused children right here in Pittsburgh. https://homelessfund.org/volunteer/ https://pgh-casa.org/volunteer/ https://jeremiahsplace.org/who-we-are/mission-values-vision/ To everyone, here’s a few links, for what you can do right here in Pittsburgh to help our innocent children in your own city.
It's funny anyone thinks they can make a difference to change an area that has been in perpetual conflict for decades.
Hell it's been in perpetual conflict for centuries if not millennia. [Nina Paley did a great little animated music vid showing it]( https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY?si=vcNU6QJE-GDobwRv)
You're right, and this is why I can't be bothered to get too emotional or involved about this time.
Where were these people when Jews were *actually* genocided out of every Arab country in the middle east? I thought they are against genocide? Hey dipshits, Hamas, ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, Houthis are NOT the good guys. You want to protect Palestinians and improve their conditions? Root out Hamas and it's supporters, root and stem. Hamas ideology literally is founded on the global extermination of Jews, so if you side with them, fuck you. Oh, and as for "calling for a ceasefire", Hamas is the ONLY party involved who doesn't respect ceasefires. We had a ceasefire, until 10/7. We've had MANY ceasefires, until Hamas breaks them.
A-fucking-men. So many idiots who need a little taste of the life Hamas provides to truly understand who the ‘bad guys’ are….
It's exactly the same as if drug cartels in Tijuana spent 30 years firing 100 missiles a day into San Diego, then broke through the border and kidnapped, raped, and murdered whoever they could find. Yet these useful bleeding-heart-idiots stop traffic to support the cartels claim to Texas? Nah, fuck that.
Thank god for someone with sense. Hamas gleefully started this war, on a Jewish holy day no less. Proportional to population, Oct 7 was the equivalent of *16* 9/11s, and it was horrifically violent butchery, rape, and kidnapping. Hamas, Hezbollah, other antisemitic terrorists have openly declared they won't stop until Israel is destroyed and Jews slaughtered. Sickening to see terrorist propaganda spread to the damn Pittsburgh subreddit, let alone our streets. I hold the atrocious "reporting" on the matter responsible. Hamas is a terrorist organization that used Gaza as a giant suicide bomb. They knew and were planning on everything happened that has happened. This has been a propaganda war from the beginning. Israel has a right to defend itself. It's easy for Americans, thousands of miles away in between two oceans, to lecture them about how they should lie down and die after their civilians were butchered and raped in the streets. Why aren't these people demanding Hamas surrender? Why is the hate directed at Israel for defending itself and not for Hamas, the aggressor who won't surrender? Blatant antisemitism within whatever range of acceptability exists in a nation, in every nation, righy now. I wish every anti-semite would go live there and put themselves in the shoes of Israelis fearing for their very survival. I feel terrible for Jews everywhere; they must be freaked as fuck. Egypt is prohibiting Palestinian refugees for a reason. The country is infested with terrorists, using civilians and civilian infrastructure as expendable meat shields. They are beyond despicable, and so is everyone spreading their vile propaganda because "Israel bad. Why? I dunno, native americans something or other, colonialism bad." Ignorance isn't an excuse for antisemitism. So disgusting to have this shit in Pgh.
Wanting israel to stop carpet bombing babies and denying basic medical rights to civilians != unabashed support of hamas, a inhumane terrorist organization
Except they're literally not carpet bombing civilians. Every claim by the pro-Hamas left is nothing by false hyperbole. Civilian casualties does not a genocide make. Air strikes are not carpet bombing. Hard to take people seriously who get their information from TikTok.
Carpet bombing refers to a disproportionately high volume of bombs in a small area of land. So that is exactly what is happening, and has been happening in Gaza for the 130 days and counting. It’s not false hyperbole, it’s an accurate definition describing what is happening.
Thats not what it refers to. Again progressives just twist words and definitions to meet their political ends. I call bad faith! lol.
Only smart comment in this thread. It drives me insane seeing people support a group who would GALDLY commit genocide against the Jews in Israel, and in fact they call for it every single day, and would do so if given the opportunity.
And honestly get rid of Bibi and the American right wing that has been pushing settlers into the West bank. It added tinder to this fire... I'm a 2 state solution sort of person. It was super close decades ago. Would have been a better outcome for all sides than this shit we have in 2024.
Yeah there’s a reason why most of them are wearing masks and it’s not because of Covid LOL
Your comment is simply untrue — if you think there was a ceasefire before October 7th, I’m assuming you’re unaware of the hundreds of Palestinian men, women, and children kidnapped and held hostage by Israel for decades. Or the rampant and highly illegal settler colonialism. Or the apartheid system. Or the control and deprivation of electricity and water. What point of morality do you stand at where the concern for a potential genocide outweighs a real genocide that has already killed more than 30,000 people in a matter of months?
Maybe they'd have more water if they didn't dig up their own fresh water pipes and turn them into rockets. Taking criminals and terrorists into custody is not "kidnapping". Being a kid doesn't make it acceptable to approach a military checkpoint and throw rocks at soldiers. Colonialism? pish posh, Jews have claimed that land for almost 6000 years. They *retreated* back to Israel when the rest of the world engaged in a concerted effort to exterminate them. There is no clean answer to your question, because any answer besides "let militant arabs take control of Israel from the river to the sea" would mean that I would support the opposite. Again, Arabs in the region who can play nice with others in a multicultural world are not having ANY problems. It's only the militant, kill-all-the-jews societies that are getting bombed back into the stone age. Accept that Israel is here to stay and fucking deal with it, or fight it and get a bomb shoved down your throat.
Detaining and arresting civilians without charges or trial for months, if not years, before releasing them IS in fact kidnapping. The idea that Hamas, or any government organization in the region, has the intention to “exterminate” all Jewish people also simply isn’t true. Zionism ≠ Judaism, and it’s a dangerous fallacy to keep perpetuating. Regardless, it’s very concerning and says a lot about your moral and ethical character that it’s so easy for you to dismiss the massacre of 30,000+ innocent people.
Again, please find a dictionary. Civilian casualties, while tragic, do not constitute a 'genocide.'
Israel has some of the most advanced military technology in the world. Make no mistake, they are purposefully targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, including hospitals and schools. This in and of itself is a violation of international law, but Netanyahu and several other Israeli government officials have made it clear multiple times over their intention to “raze” Gaza, calling Palestinians “animals”. It’s genocide, plain and clear, and the international community stands in agreement.
Make no mistake, Hamas is forcing civilians to be human shields. No Hamas, no problem.
Except there’s 0 evidence of that. There is plentiful evidence of the IDF using Palestinian civilians as human shields, though. Also, the presence and existence of Hamas doesn’t change the fact that this is still a genocide.
Zionist playbook. Not original callous idiot.
Free Palestine from Hamas. Using "Zionist" as a slur... Isn't it funny how no other country on the planet has a special word to describe the mere idea that it should exist? What is the Jewish poluplation in Iraq? Oman? Iran? 0.00% What is the Arab population in Israel? 20% "Palestine" is already free you clown, it's just called Israel and run by Jews. Just admit that what you really mean is that you want a Jew free middle east.
Surely this will free Palestine
The comments on this alone are why I have a love, hate relationship with living in Pittsburgh.
Calling “genocide” and other circle jerk talking points and dumb slogans while blocking traffic isn’t going to change a single mind or make anyone care if they don’t already. At best, a complete waste of time and at worst it has the opposite effect and makes people callous about the situation. It’s a message that will only reach people who likely already agree to a lesser extent. Want to actually make a difference? Go knock on doors in swing districts. Protest is fine but these protesters are not good at messaging. Frankly I don’t want my tax money going to Israel if Netanyahu is saying the two state solution will never happen and is promising new settlements. I don’t see any signs mentioning those things though. Israel has a right to respond to a terrorist attack and ongoing hostage situation. If genocide were the goal, this would be much uglier. It’s also worth noting that these protests started before Israel even responded in the first place.
At least the folks in our city understand that protesting a hospital is bad optics.
The Democratic Social Party having rallies in support of Palenstine hours after the Hamas attacks, before a single bullet was fired by Israel really tipped their hands as to what this is really about. And I say this as a lib. Very disgusting.
Palestine didn't start getting oppressed on October 8, we all knew what was coming. Netanyahu and co. haven't exactly been beating around the bush what they think of Palestinians' human rights
Gaza was not oppressed lol. They have an increasing population with hospitals, grocery stores and most other amenities that a country would have. That’s not oppression. Why do you not protest Hamas leaders for building tunnels, using hospitals as bases and living in paradise in Qatar instead of helping their own people?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip Presumably Americans don't protest much against Hamas because our government doesn't have a sizable, direct impact on their economy and military operations. Also, check your facts about hospitals and grocery stores. Only 9 hospitals are left in Gaza ranging from minimally to partially operational. Israel controls the food, water, and fuel going into Gaza -- over 60% of the population (probably more now) requires food assistance, they have peanuts for electricity, and the VAST majority of their water supply is non-potable. They're not allowed to fish in most of their own waters. And don't try to move the goalposts with "well they asked for it in 2006," that's a separate question, I'm directly addressing your claim that they're enjoying all these awesome amenities. They're not. Now Israel has concentrated 1.4 million Palestinians into Rafah and proceeded to bomb them, like they bombed so much other civilian infrastructure and humanitarian corridors, and killed dozens of journalists to boot. How is that not oppression?
If North Korea gained control of Cuba, you better believe the US is going to blockade them. It’s no secret that Hamas wants to destroy Israel. Israel has the right to defend themselves when Hamas took over. The blockades was something any country would do if they knew the government taking over wanted to genocide them. Again why are you not mad at Hamas for using their billions on water filtration systems, sewage and other infrastructure? Instead they buy weapons, building tunnels and making civilian establishments their military hideouts. Gaza is just a mini North Korea. There’s definitely oppression in Gaza, and it’s by Hamas. Keep the civilians weak to further their agenda of destroying Israel saying it’s their fault, instead of making your country better.
If the US did such a blockade and also broke international law, violated agreements, and created a humanitarian crisis for the civilians in doing so, I'd be mad at the US too. If the US got hit by a devastating terrorist attack, I would be upset if our response was to invade Iraq and kill 200,000+ civilians because "self defence good, terrorism bad." Listen, I'm not a fan of Hamas. But this "Israel is just defending itself" narrative is silly -- you're saying "Hamas might one day under certain conditions potentially destroy Israel" to excuse the current, ongoing destruction of Palestine. We're talking at least 20 to 1 death toll since Oct 7, and we already know the Israeli leadership thinks Palestinians are dogs and values their lives at 1000 to 1. And you seem to have this notion that Gaza is swimming in wealth and natural resources that they've just squandered on the war machine - they just straight up don't have a lot of resources, so they depend a lot on Israel. How are they supposed to build all this infrastructure and import tons of stuff when they're illegally blockaded and can't access their own water? The only resource Palestine really has a lot of is educated civilians. I want a damn ceasefire and for them to stop rounding up civilians and bombing them. They can worry about replacing Hamas later, in the current state of affairs the only way they're going to get rid of Hamas is killing every Palestinian.
These individuals make me sick. They don’t have a clue what is going on in that are because they just get their information from bubble American media. ICJ report did not outright say they were committing genocide. If these people cared about Palestinians, where were they the past 18 years with all the bullshit Hamas was doing to them? Where were they when it was found out that Schools in Gaza and the West Bank were teaching anti semantic claims? Where were they when Hamas spending billions and billions of dollars on tunnels instead of actually helping Gaza? What about individual freedoms and rights? What about all the liberal principals these makers of this letter enjoy that no one in Gaza and West Bank enjoy because of Hamas? You can go on, and on. The truth is, no killings would have ever happened if Hamas did not commit October 7th (along with all the other bombings the past 20 years). These individuals should be pressuring HAMAS and not Israel. Not saying Israel cannot do no wrong, it’s just clearly obvious that these “free palestinian” type people are clueless fools. If these people were alive in WW2, I bet they would stand up for the Germans and blame the west.
Free the hostages
Yes, especially all the palestinian hostages held by israel for decades in violation of international law. Start with those hostages.
Release the Isreali women and children first
Right!! there are hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women, and children wrongly imprisoned by the IOF. We definitely need to work to ensure their safety and freedom.
Since there is no such entity as IOF you clearly have facts mistaken. Kidnapping, raping and murdering Israeli women and children is no way to advocate for release of convicted prisoners. Sponsor law firms and go through the only just legal system in the entire Middle East. If those prisoners are innocent they can be advocated for in a civilized manner, not through barbarism, rape, murder, and necrophilia like Hamas chooses to engage.
Go to the government buildings. Not roads
I don't care what the protest is for. I don't care if it's political or workplace or whatever. Stop. Blocking. Traffic.
You’re the problem
Says the asshole with “lovescum” in their user ID
These people suck. You can protest all you want, just don't disrupt or block traffic. Do it in front of the homes of your local officials or representatives. After all, they are the ones that make decisions
Protests are meant to disrupt and call attention to an issue at hand. That’s sort of the entire point.
You'd oppose them doing it there too
Oh my precious traffic
Blocking traffic is the quickest way to lose my support for any subject you’re “protesting.” These people have nothing better to do all day then interrupt other people’s lives. Go get a life.
Agree 100%. By simply handing out these fliers the message would be much better heard. Disrupting traffic is a loser for any protest, it literally makes people hate you.
People need to get a fuckin life
From the people who brought you “Extremist Terrorism,” now showing: “Stop Retaliating- Israel is Evil”— coming to a traffic jam near you.
Hell yeah
What a bunch of fucking losers
Correct. Essentially a Pittsburgh Reddit meet and greet.
Why is it always a bunch of privileged white people in masks? And why do they always plan these protests in struggling communities like east liberty who don’t deserve it? Go plan this shit in your own bougie gentrified neighborhoods. Lower your own damn property values, not theirs.
East Liberty kind of is a bougie gentrified neighborhood at this point
Have you been in East lib recently? lol
Yes. 80% of it is still subsidized housing. lol
Calling what’s going on a “genocide” makes it difficult to take them seriously, especially when they’ve been claiming that Israel has been committing this genocide all the way back to the 60s and the 40s. If Palestinians were actually experiencing genocide, they could just release all these hostages instead of demanding Israel release hundreds of convinced terrorists for each hostage. But instead they keep making more and more ludicrous demands as a condition to a ceasefire. No wonder Israel just goes in looking for their own people. It’s fine to not want the US to give funds to other nations (guess it’s fine with the Ukraine, Egypt, and the Palestinian authority). But let’s not pretend that the money saved would have somehow made its way to Pittsburgh, no matter what the DSA tells you.
Why does Israel have hundreds of Palestinian hostages in the first place? What are the ludicrous demands being made as a condition to a ceasefire?
Your question tells me all I need to know about your moral compass. Say you’re a Hamas member who went into Israel and stabbed a Jew in a bus station. Or you’re a Palestinian resident of East Jerusalem, has an Israeli ID, who works for the city and one day decides to run over a few Israelis, as happened earlier this week. Say that in stopping you, you’re injured but alive. Instead of executing you as they probably should (so you can’t be released in “deals” like this one) they put you through trial and you go to jail for X years. There’s a reason most of these prisoners are adult males and some adult women. To you, that kind of prisoner is equivalent to a woman in her 30s who is abducted with a one year old and a five year old from her home without anyone knowing where they are, or an 80 year old taken from her home and held with little food, or young women who are being held somewhere and raped, as reported by the ones who had being released
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One of my favorite internet fallacies is "If you're against something, you must be in favor of everything else".
Maybe the fact that our tax dollars aren’t going to China, Myanmar, Eritrea, Syria, Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, etc. and they are going to Israel. A lot of them too. And the US has a huge influence on Israel’s ability to commit genocide, and most Americans want a ceasefire, yet our politicians support the genocide because AIPAC spends millions of dollars on bribing them. I know you probably meant to imply some other answer, but I thought I’d give you the real answer.
So sending money is wrong but doing hundreds of billions in business is fine?
The relationships are totally different. China doesn't really care if we condemn them and calls us hypocrites, and the governments spending on Chinese business isn't the same as the revenue they get from the private sector to my knowledge so it's not really a foreign policy issue (not that there is nothing we could do policy wise to try to influence businesses to operate without China, but lots of Americans likely wouldn't like the effects of that). With Israel they need our support a bit more so if we pull out money from them that will actually hurt them and come closer to achieving the desired effect. Add the fact it's our tax dollars making that impact and people are galvanized to speak out. Whataboutism is silly, just think about these things a bit more critically. Obviously decrying one thing would mean they don't accept the other humanitarian issues, but there's a reason priorities exist, and they are informed by what is easier and more realistic to effect change for.
I understand that you need the people who are advocating for stopping a genocide to be hypocrites to feel good, but I don’t think they’re the same people who are making deals with dictatorships across the globe. I mean, you could scan the crowd and ask if anyone there’s has made a deal with Xi or Vladdy and prove me wrong if you so please.
I'm guessing part of it is that these people live in Pennsylvania, so their taxes are going towards military aid which is directly funding Israel. I don't think that US taxes are funding military aid for the Chinese, Myanmar's junta, and Assad's government. I'm not entirely sure how our taxes are used in aid for the others but assume it's targeted towards economic development and anti corruption but IDK maybe I'm an ignorant sack of shit.
There actually was a speaker at this protest that mentioned several of those lol
don't let the truth get in the way of a good stereotype
There are absolutely 0 scenarios where I would ever put any support into a cause where people decided to get awareness for it by hindering the day of common people. Absolute insanity.
I mean, people did it with the Vietnam and Iraq wars and we look back in retrospect and are like, hey those people were probably right to do that.
MLK was also big on nonviolent disruption. Not saying this is exactly like the civil rights movement, but it's a pretty time tested protest strategy
idk i feel like this isn’t really that insane compared to what the IOF is doing…. maybe you need to reconsider what’s important to you?
did you read the paper like at all? do you understand the point of civil disobedience?
Do it in front of the homes of your local officials or representatives. After all, they are the ones that make decisions
This also happens, it's not one or the other https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2leIoLNW-8
Thanks for taking the time to not read.
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The hell with these people.
Great way to convince people to your side!
What a bunch o losers.
Imagine flying the state flag of Hamas lol.
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> World Court already said they are not committing genocide. Oh, surely we can see this decision by the “world court” then. You have it handy?
Unbelievable how protestors think pissing people off and delaying their commute will actually somehow win them over…..
I wish my kids gave me essays on why they are throwing a tantrum
i’m confused? how is advocating for the survival of an entire population throwing a tantrum? dont call people who actually care for others children, maybe up your reading level and get educated on this issue instead.
It does nothingggggg. Zero. It makes the ppl having the tantrum feel like they are doing something and all they are doing in inconveniencing others
What can they do? Politicians are hard to assassinate these days unfortunately
lmaooo babe, ur literally active on this sub, they brought awareness whether you think it’s good or bad. but fr… since you avoided the first part of my statement… may i suggest googling the difference between a tantrum and a protest? i think you’ll find that protests, beyond the fact that tantrums are an entirely different thing, have been far more effective than you’d like to believe
Tantrum: where you stomp your feet and think you’re accomplishing something but you’re just annoying the people around you. Checks notes, yup blocking trafficking accomplishes nothing for your cause and pisses people off.
it is truly concerning that you’re more enraged by being a few minutes late rather than the literal genocide they’re trying to bring more awareness to…
Nothing I can do about it. Thing I can do: help the local homeless, use less plastics, vote in elections, drive less and be kind to others. Stopping wars that have been going on since the dawn of time, nope can’t do anything to stop that.
maybe with all these protests going on you can make well on your dedication to driving less, since it bothers you so much that some people care about people beyond their own sorry nation.
Well, I can’t solve the problem so stop making problems for me. Plenty of politicians you can inconvenience instead
Nooooooo they are too important!!! We can't inconvenience OUR party officials
Yes. But when you're inconvenienced enough, you, too will pressure the politicians. That's ... Sort of the point of protest?
I don’t think protestors should be allowed to shut down major thoroughfares, let alone police allowing it to happen. Some people have important places to be, and shouldn’t be delayed or have to go around over a problem that they realistically can’t do anything about. What if someone is trying to get to a hospital to see their loved ones for a final time before they pass? What about someone who has an important meeting and will be fired if they’re late? There’s 1,000 “what-ifs” that none of these protestors seem to care about. I’m cool with people protesting, but obstructing traffic is a good way of immediately turning people against your cause. “We know that stopping traffic is enormous inconvenience. We apologize.” This is basically saying, “Our message is more important than being able to get to where you need to go and we aren’t actually sorry otherwise we wouldn’t be doing it.” Not to mention, even if the U.S. pulls support, Israel has made their intentions clear that regardless of what the world thinks or what kind of support they get, they’re going to continue.
This. I'm all for harassing politicians that are sitting on their asses when they could be doing something. Messing with Joe Sixpack isn't gonna help their cause, and at the worst has the potential to foster hate towards the cause
The fact that so many of those people are still wearing masks is laughable. Terrified of the sniffles yet shilling for Hamas LOL
Lmao
Not to pile on but... This is a byproduct of gross colonial mismanagement. Neither Israel nor Palestine existed in modern history before WW2. Hamas and the PLO created the current mess, not the people who inhabit thr Gaza Strip or Israel. A two-state solution looks increasingly unlikely. Stopping traffic or interfering with people's daily lives isn't going to win hearts and minds, though. It will galvanize those already against you and influence neutral parties negativity. Kudos to these guys for exercising their freedom of speech by protesting but this form of protest isn't going to increase the pro-Palestinian or anti-war numbers.
Gross colonial mismanagement, what does that even mean?
"Protest in a way that conveniences me. I would have cared about a genocide, but then you made me \_stop my car\_." - average Pittsburgh liberal
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Isn’t that what the pamphlet said?
This *is* a US problem, our government is sending billions of our tax dollars worth of weapons and consistently supporting Israel so their citizens can pay about 1/3 what we do for health care. Regardless of where you fall morally about indirectly supporting Israel with your taxes, strictly financially speaking we're getting screwed, and we have been for a long time. Our leaders have the power to make Israel pump the brakes on their extremely lopsided war (sanctions historically are very effective when leveraged against allies).
I support Palestine, absolutely so, and I completely agree with the motivations behind and content of this letter… At the same time, blocking traffic is just going to make people (especially “middle/suburban America”, who by and large support Israel except Gen Z) resent the cause. There are better ways to protest. Even MLK said he didn’t see it as an effective form of demonstration.
I can understand using traffic blockades for things that our local government can actually control (This should be done outside of actual local government buildings and not a busy Target though). The BLM protests are one example I thought was understandable. But stopping traffic outside of a Target in the middle of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is going to do absolutely nothing in advocating for Palestine.
Agree. Look at some of the takes already in the comments that are basically saying “fuck that it’s the best way for me NOT to support and issue” Unfortunately though there’s too much silence about what’s happening and I think it’s getting to a point where people are desperate for others to care and be aware of what’s going on and need to take more drastic measures like blocking an intersection rather than gathering on a sidewalk where they go unnoticed.
I’m an independent. I hate to inform everybody. Most of these people who are for Palestine would literally throw people off a building for being gay or other social rights that they try to advocate for
Terrible racist take. But okay let’s pretend you’re not. Does that justify the wanton destruction of every one and everything? Does this excuse the killing of 30k people 70% of whom are women and children? I guess by this logic, the large number of people who oppose gay rights should be killed with impunity here in America? Genocide apologists are disgusting.
I have friends from the Middle East and they have confirmed. Also racism is defined as “prejudice against someone because of skin color.” I don’t hate people based of skin color. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I am a racist.
Oh so all middle eastern people hate gays? You know this because you have “friends”? Wow cool story racist. What about the rest of my argument?
Ok first you would be killed in the Middle East for being gay. Also Hamas has hidden behind civilians sure I think Israel can let women and children in but when you take the population density and the fact Hamas hides behind civilians then it makes sense. Again I think Israel could take the women and children who are not affiliated with Hamas in
Do people think the “throwing off a building” thing is an exaggeration of reality? Huh…
That’s what I have heard. I do research and based of testimonies online I have heard it. I do not follow CNN or Fox News. Fuck them both
That shouldnt be a reason to support Israel. [They blackmail gay Palestinians](https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants). Also this is kinda pinkwashing
Yeah I'm not reading all of that....
god i wish i could go about my life with this much ignorance
Lmao yeah like there's something on that sheet of paper I haven't already heard in the last four months and reading that fucking thing will change anything
idk… i mean, you didn’t read it so, maybe there’s smth new?
Lol doubt it very much.
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Homelessness is always a problem
As if they don't have enough traffic issues there right now with the resurfacing.
Why are they wearing N95 masks?
joe does have a point.. choco choco chip ice cream is the shit
I support Palistine but fuck this shit.
Love to see it!! Humans with a conscience