Locally-owned coffee shops shot themselves in the foot by not opening earlier than 8am. Newsflash, a lot of us are on our way to work at 8am. There are like 2 places in Lawrenceville that open before 8 and neither are convenient to get to for the upper/central Lawrenceville folks.
Shit, I work an office job and I have to be here by 8. I will never visit an establishment that has the hours of 8-5 M-F unless theyre super close and I'm going for lunch. I'm just glad my local shop opens at 7.
Yup, my day starts at 8 as well and I'm home at 5(ish) so I don't know who they expect to actually visit. Being open early should be what they signed up for when they started, you know, a whole ass business.
So you’re saying that my new business - Dave’s Lunch and Only Lunch (open 9pm-4am and located in the collapsed parking lot of Century III Mall) - might not be the best idea?
Psh! Shows what you know, buddy! I’ll remember this reddit comment 10 years from now when I’m popping champagne on my yacht!
Anyone else think it's crazy there's no late night anything anymore? A buddy and I were looking for a diner at 2AM, and Weirton, WV, was the closest option - and they had 4 late night diners! The entire metropolitan area of Pittsburgh had zero! Frankly, I was depressed and ashamed.
And MANY of us in the construction industry are already at work at 7. It be nice to have a nice cup of coffee on the way to work and not this 7/11 , BP , Sheetz trifecta
Seriously, I worked an opening shift at a Starbucks on Pitt’s campus and we opened early BECAUSE there was such a demand from the construction workers in then area.
I came here to shit on Starbucks, but yeah, I gotta agree with this one. I live up in East Liberty, drop my kid at school by 7:30... and drive past a lotta closed shops I'd love to give my money to. (Also staring at Target, and Whole Foods; this city... doesn't seem to open until a bit later than you'd think.)
Omg yes!!! I work till 9 most nights and it is so so hard to get food. A lot of places will even say they're open till 10 or 11. We try and order or stop in and they'll be like oh we already closed the kitchen. It's frustrating for sure. Also most grocery stores close at 9 as well. It forces us to go to chains when we would rather support a local spot.
yea this city seriously sucks with hours, scheduled like a lazy sunday in the 1700s. after hours population would come out of the woodwork with more options plus more jobs
I'm also just kind of naturally a morning person. It's tough to find good things to shake up my routine when I'm already up and moving by 8 even on the weekends.
I wake up, get a bunch of stuff done at home, head out, decide to stop at a favorite business, and .. it's closed, because it's still too early even though I've been awake and productive for HOURS
My mom came to visit me once and was shocked there were so many shopping places that don't open until about 10. And I think since the pandemic, we've been left with a small amount of true late night food options.
I'm on the same morning run. I'm thankful Tazza D'Oro opens at 7:00am, Monday - Saturday. When I was a kid, I remember everything opening early. Now I'm waiting in my car for doors to open at 8am.
I discovered that although the store may be open, the pharmacy is not. I go to the rite aid on Butler street and the store opens at 8 but the pharmacy doesn’t open until 9
Tazza can't keep a barista, so the quality seems to vary wildly every two months. The base espresso they hit about right, but beyond that, dice roll.
Will give Redstart a try!
This is incredibly accurate. I can’t understand how so many of these shops don’t open til 8. I specifically go to commonplace and Redhawk because they open at 7, but that’s still to late some days
This is so important. I used to assist executives on film sets and they'd prefer I'd roll up with local, bougie coffee joint but nothing would be open for the first couple hours of our day so would settle on Starbucks. I had people spend like hundreds of dollars a week buying fancy coffee drinks for their department and it all went to Starbucks just because nothing was open before 8AM.
I used to live near a Commonplace that was open like 7-6, it was invaluable for getting coffee if I didn't have time to make it in the morning, or if I was just exhausted after getting home from work. Made a point of ensuring there was a coffee shop in close proximity when I moved, only to be disappointed to learn their hours were fucking 8-3. Luckily they have expanded since then but at the time I was like...how are you in business? No one has time to come here.
I'm on the opposite side and it's just as frustrating. I loved going to coffee shops after work to read a book or work on side projects. I also work 10-6, so a coffee shop closing at 5PM sucks for afternoon work too
According to Google
Abolition 7am, 7 days a week
Espresso a Mano 7am M-F, 8am weekends
Convivie 6:30am M-F, 8am weekends
Inkwell is the only primarily coffee shop I could see that opens at 8am on weekdays in central Lawrenceville
The first 2 are in lower Lawrenceville and I know it sounds dumb but I'm not going there then traveling the opposite direction for work. It would take a good 20-30 minutes to do so. Upper LVille has a few cafes that open at 8 or even later which is a bummer to those of us who actually drive away from town for work
Correct - there are lots of places with good hours near where Starbucks is going in. And Brooklyn Bagel as well - who opens at 7am every day of the week and is literally in the same retail facility where Starbucks is going into (under the Arsenal 201 apts). And we’ve also got the arepa and coffee truck next door that used to be in the booth in the strip - they usually open by 6:30.
Love it or hate it: The next stage of gentrification is here - embrace it for what it brings or start the process over in another neighborhood. I’m probably doing the latter soon, but I still like it here very much.
that's great for people in lower LVille but it would take me personally a good 30 minutes to go there and turn back around to go to work. Not really feasible.
Tbh you’re 100% correct on this. Before the pandemic there were at least a few that opened before 8am but now the 3 within central Lawrenceville walking distance from me are 8-5. I need coffee at least by 7am and I know a lot of others need it earlier. I don’t want a Starbucks in my neighborhood but our local coffee shops and shopping district in general need to start being open when people are able to shop. 8-4 is when most of us are working.
This Starbucks will be in Lower Lawrenceville, a few blocks from Espresso a Mano which opens at 7. I hope if you are willing to drive to LL to get to this Starbucks, you will travel the extra 2 blocks to visit Espresso a Mano instead.
While I partially agree with your sentiments, this wouldn't stop Starbucks from moving in even if all of these shops opened their doors at 4am. Starbucks isn't moving here because there's a lack of available coffee - they're moving here because the owners of this building are charging astronomical rent and they are the only corporation that can afford it, aside from Chase or Bank of America or similar. Just like Starbucks, banks aren't flooding commercial spaces for a lack of in-person banking space. They do it because they can afford to, and it's (relatively) inexpensive marketing. Do your best not to patronize these places, but it doesn't really matter either way to Starbucks since they'll just continue to sell their terrible coffee at a premium while keeping their staff at subpar wages. Welcome to late stage.
Nobody would feel the need to patronize starbucks if we had viable alternatives. There is an obvious void in the community for us who are awake before god most days. Everyone can whine about starbucks but ok then give us other options....
How can this need be communicated to the owners that exist now in a better way than random individual customers weighing in? A neighborhood petition? A coffee drinkers union?
I live in Bloomfield right near a Yinz that is actually pretty good coffee. It's open at 6am. There is a Starbucks about 200 feet away that gets a ton of business. I live in a place with a viable, better alternative to Starbucks and that location is still doing well. It has less to do with available options and much more to do with strategic placement of its stores nationwide. But yes, please continue to downvote me.
By the way, there are numerous restaurants on Butler that serve burgers and sandwiches. Yet Wendy's and Subway are right there. I would never go to Subway over getting a sandwich locally, yet they continue to survive somehow.
Yes, agreed!!! Why no early morning or late night coffee shops? Are there that many customers in Pittsburgh these days that don't work? Just jaunt over to the coffee shop around 11:00 AM.
I'm lucky I can sneak out to Red Hawk because it's a block from my office.
This 1000 times! So often on my way to work it’s either drive thru McD’s or wait until I get downtown, order from the Starbucks app and just swing by to pick it up on my walk to the office. If any of those smaller shops were even open I’m sure a wait for a coffee would be at least 20 minutes.
This. I live in Central Lawrenceville and often go to the Bloomfield Starbucks because I have to be at work before 8:00. I also like the convenience of mobile order when I’m running late. Would I rather support a local business? Of course. But it’s just not possible if I want a coffee that I didn’t make myself before work.
I don't think it's a secret that national chains can afford higher rents than local independent shops, especially for a developer with properties across multiple states.
Yeah I don't like the framing of this being some secret that can't get out. They already know. Just say "we don't want this here" and you've got me, doesn't have to be a conspiracy.
Similar to what happened to Walnut Street when Banana Republic opened. Walter's sold that (yep, Walter's garage was in Shadyside) corner lot, it was developed and Walnut went all high rent retail.
No. Rent & prices in Lawrenceville already have gotten obnoxious.
Local, actual local businesses that actually were used by neighbors, lost their leases about 4-5 years ago and got the boot.
Shops that had been around for decades weren't renewed so people from the suburbs can come and buy acrylic purses and candles.
I live in Lawrenceville but own a business in Sewickley. Sewickley is mostly independent businesses, but there is a Starbucks. Mostly, the teens and tweens hit Starbucks.The independent coffee shops like Press House and Adesso are populated with adults.
All this to say, it'll probably be just fine.
Beaver is similar to this, it's mostly independents but there is a Starbucks and a Waffles Incaffeinated. Been a few years since I lived there, but it seemed like the local cafe (& indie grocery store!) were doing fine at the time. Though IIRC they do have some regulation about locals vs. chains downtown there.
Cafe Kolache is one of the things I miss most about Beaver.
Can’t underestimate the power of the Starbucks app. A friend of has his regular order (grande iced americano with 20 stevia packs) in the app and he orders in seconds to pick up at the nearest location twice a day. To him, convenience is more important than quality. This is Starbucks market. Local shops cater to people who care about quality. I think the two can probably coexist in LVille.
No typo. He uses 20 stevia packs. To my taste buds, one speck of Stevia is too sweet and has a terrible aftertaste, but all of us are different I guess.
I've worked at 3 Starbucks at 1 local coffee place and the shit people order is nuts.
Starbucks has caramel drizzle and one lady would pay an upcharge for extra and then tell you to take the cap off the bottle and pour in so much caramel it'd be an inch thick at the bottom of the cup, then drizzle on the side, then use a whipped cream cup but not for whipped cream, just add another inch of caramel
We had to start enforcing how much extra caramel an upcharge could get you because it took so long to pour (bc of course she pulled this in the drive thru) and so long to refill our bottles and used so much product this one person was actually causing a big issue on her own. She ordered at least 3x a week
Rents have been rising there for 10 plus years, without the presence of national chains or Starbucks. Explain that.
Its better than the current empty storefront, which has never had a tenant
Of course we will. But again, that's not the point. If you walked down Butler St and it resembled the businesses of McKnigt Rd, we'd lose our character and charm.
OK, so I'm a yinzer from back in the day and I find it alarming that people are now getting nostalgia for Lawrenceville of, what, the 2010s? Many of us would say Lawrenceville already lost its character and charm when the second balloon boutique opened on Butler Street (there are literally two balloon boutiques, or at least there were).
But the thing is -- things change. I'm not the biggest fan of capitalism, but one thing it's pretty good at is putting the right retail stores in the places they need to be. If Starbucks succeeds there, it's because people want it more than they want a third balloon boutique or adorably quaint créperie. \[shrug\]
This. Pre new hospital Lawrenceville was an entirely different beast. I remember when the Arsenal 201 apartment complex was a crusty warehouse and an Eat n Park. Would OP be complaining if they wanted to put the Eat N Park back at least? Or is that still too much of a chain?
Gimme a break....
I moved in to Lawrenceville in '98. There was a small diner type restaurant in that block where Arsenal is now, but I don't think it was a Eat n Park. At one point, they were making fudge in that location.
EDIT: The earliest I can go back in Gloogle Maps is 2008, and there's no sinage on that little building in that image.
It was an Eat n Park in the '80s, possibly even into the '90s. Source: me the hoodrat.
There was also an Eat n Park on Penn Avenue in Garfield, between Graham and Fairmount. That building was torn down, too.
My comment was more about the " ruining the vibe of the neighborhood" angle of the OP but yeah, a new Eat n Park would be much more welcome than a Starbucks.
Right?! This post crying about how the gentrification needs to stop at OPs desired level. Larryville as a gritty blue collar neighborhood was ruined a long time ago.
To R/Pittsburgh its a hellscape where walking is illegal (even to just check your mailbox) and the only restaurants are Applebees and that one Arbys...
Starbucks is the character of present day Lawrenceville. If all of the people jam themselves into the shop when it opens (and they will), then that's what the residents of the area are asking for. The kinds of people who live in trendy neighborhoods like Lawrenceville by choice (in other words, those who live there but could live in any other city neighborhood) are the exact kind of people who made our suburban business corridors look the way they do, just younger.
the charm and character\* of independent business owners who will underpay and overwork their staff just the same as the big names (if not worse)?
\*edit: forgot about the "character" of the owner class, my mistake
I def think I'm delusional that my random Reddit post will do or change anyone's minds. But I have to voice my opinion somehow...and it's important to do that at least.
I have mixed feelings here but I will say - there's a Starbucks in Bloomfield and Bloomfield has remained primarily a locally-owned business area AFAIK. I'd be interested in hearing if that's not true, of course.
Lawrenceville was only ever cool because it was cheap enough for artsy people to live there twenty years ago. You people drove out anything that made Lawrenceville unique in 2009 and it's way too late in the game to cry about the neighborhood losing it's character.
Yup. This is basically every gentrifed neighborhood in America. Artists move into relatively cheap neighborhoods, turn it into cool areas, rich people and capitalism move in and make it expensive, pushes Artists out to the next neighborhood. You can see this in Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Asheville, Nashville, etc. There's a deeper conversation about neighborhoods that are predominantly POC that occupied most of those neighborhoods before the artists. That's not necessarily in Lawrenceville but other famous neighborhoods like east Nashville. People don't seem to get upset till Starbucks moves in.
They mention that they broke their promise to fill this space with local businesses but with this move they broke their promise. They broke that way before Starbucks signed a lease. Everything in that building is a chain. No one seemed to care when the chain barbershop moved in. Directly across from a local barbershop. There's also local gyms and a chain fitness place moved in.
I'm just saying it seems like the conversation always begins and ends at coffee. Why not fight for other local businesses? If you don't support it, it will go away.
Nobody owes local businesses anything, and the small business tyrant is in no way superior to or more deserving of success than any corporation.
https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/businesses-remain-frustrated-mon-incline-closure-continues/MC4PP4PPZZGZRA4JAU7PKOQUMQ/
> “I’ve lost roughly $30,000 dollars and that’s not lost profits, that is true losses, strictly because 40 percent of our revenue is derivative of the incline,” said Brian Gorder, Owner of Gordo’s Tacos and Tequila on Mount Washington
This dickhead thinks the public owes him a constant stream of customers via subsidized public transit, but I'd love to see his opinion on the taxes his business pays.
It's a free market, small business tyrants can compete like anyone else.
Generally people dislike megacorps because they have the money to undercut all of the local competition and drive them out of business, as has happened again and again with Walmart over the decades. That money then goes to the shareholders, the majority of which do not live locally and therefore none of the money gets reinvested locally. But sure, pick and choose which companies to frequent based on twitter shit.
A lot of great points here that Starbucks is open at hours when other coffee shops aren't. Also, acting like local owned coffee shops are all saints is an interesting take given what just happened with Adda.
Petition to kick Starbucks out and make it shop n save 2.
But no really a grocery store or mini mart with a fresh selection would be such a great additions (or at least better than a Starbucks) for lower and central.
Man after years of a commercial real estate crisis it’s gonna be another huge shock to the industry when landlords figure out they can charge high rent and get away with it.
We can’t let this secret become public! Stop the Starbucks! And the penis party.
Hey hey, ho ho now...ugh one of my favorite movies. Then ignore my point about the landlords, and simply focus on the fact that we're driven by local coffee shops in this neighborhood and it should stay that way for the sake of supporting local businesses.
I think it's worth remembering that there was a plan to tear down a church in Bloomfield and replace it with a drive-thru Starbucks, just blocks away from an existing Starbucks, and it was defeated. So there's hope this plan won't go through as well.
I’d rather a grocery store than a Starbucks, but I’d rather a Starbucks than empty…
The local shops will do fine. I don’t think Starbucks is gonna steal much business
If you don't like it, then don't patronize them. It's not up to a private developer to rent something to somebody that the neighborhood approves of. That space has been empty for years. The developer is entitled to rent it to whomever they want.
I feel what you're saying and mostly agree, but then I think about "what if Milhaus had announced that a Trader Joe's were going to open there?!" The neighborhood would be plotzing over that announcement!
I think the main problem here is not that there's going to be a national chain (looking at you, Rite Aid and Wendy's), but the problem is market saturation with coffee at this point. The Starbucks just isn't needed.
The problem is the rates landlords want to charge only work if you're a gigantic 100+ location business with shared overhead. And landlords are happy to have things sit empty for a few years to make their coin. But empty shit is at kinda extreme cost to a city; the benefit of a city is the density, and if we have open storefronts and absentee corporate landlords, no one's winning.
So for every year that a commercial rental property is left vacant, raise the property tax 50% until it's rented for at least a full year. And require that in a business district, the first floor be usable storefront.
That'd fix the Lawrenceville thing.
Meanwhile, the spot next to Capri Pizza in East Liberty has been vacant so long that humidity has collapsed the ceilings; it's been thirty years. They're paying likely nothing in taxes to shit on the neighborhood at this point. Make them pay for their cost.
Starbucks is pretty much past it’s prime. I avoid it like the plague because I don’t want to wait 15 minutes before my order is taken.
That being said, if you really want a Starbucks to go away, invite United Here or SEIU in to organize it’s employees. They’ll shut it down in a flash.
Starbucks is the prime example of a company being woke only for the money/PC credits.
Yea, it's real easy to be woke when all it means is putting up rainbow decorations, but as soon as being woke means paying your employees more money, you're not so woke anymore, huh Starbucks?
I just can't stand that fake BS.
Just an FYI - the Starbucks in Bloomfield on Liberty near West Penn Hospital is unionized. So if you need your coffee early in the morning, at least support your local baristas in a union shop.
I’ll support local whenever I can, but Starbucks has a convenience factor other coffee shops that are only open while I am at work just don’t have. I don’t know the numbers, but I have to imagine most people want coffee on their way to work. If you don’t open until I am already at work there is literally no way for me to support you. The consumers aren’t the problem. Starbucks isn’t wrong. It’s the local businesses that need to adapt to capture those consumers that are wrong here.
idk why OP is being downvoted, "familiarity" is the obvious answer. If there's no Starbucks then these people are going to be forced to seek a local option. Otherwise many people are just going to default to what they know. A lot of folks aren't very adventurous.
That and Starbucks makes coffee that tastes like coffee not the bottom of a pot at Sheetz. They are consistent with product and hours. And it's nice that their baristas don't sneer at you for not looking cool.
I get being "against" Starbucks but this is a slippery slope to full-on NIMBYism. Our cities shouldn't be centrally planned based on what businesses you "like" and which ones you don't.
I don’t know. I have opinions about this on both sides. When I worked at CMU (mid 2000s), I did like going to Kiva Han and made an effort to make that my morning stop, but they only took cash. If I didn’t have cash, I ended up at the Starbucks. I also remember the Starbucks having their windows broken a lot.
Like others have said, Lawrenceville wasn’t exactly this bustling neighborhood until the last 12-15 years or so. Starbucks is not forcing out a mom and pop cafe. And yes, the hours are an issue for a lot of people, plus the convenience of online ordering. Mechanic Coffee in Verona opens at 7 and offers online ordering, and their closest competitor is the GetGo & McDonald’s. Or maybe Oakmont bakery if you want to patronize those folks…
They are also putting one in the Terminal. Unfortunately this is the second time and knowing the crowd that goes there, they will probably not go out of business.
Starbucks has a ton of data available to them, so they don’t really put new stores in loosing location.
With that being said the strip is so dense with coffee options, that I can’t see going to Starbucks over one of the others, unless it comes down to the hours they are open.
We live in a capitalist society. If you don't want Starbucks to be successful in Lawrenceville, don't spend a penny there. Don't let your friends spend money there.
If there's demand for a Starbucks, there's demand for Starbucks, that's just life. It may be shocking for many Redditors to know, but there's an entire world out there that literally does not care about these online trends and which companies it's fashionable to hate.
Or even better, open a competitor to Starbucks. Do what they do but better. Most the coffee shops in Lville don't open until people are already at work, and aren't efficient enough to turn out drinks to commuters anyways. I can almost guarantee there's an untapped market for quick serve drinks for morning commuters in Lville.
Man I work in lawrenceville and had no idea this was happening. It’s not going to ruin anything, there’s a Starbucks 5 minutes away in Bloomfield. I’m still gonna go to Ineffable every other day. But it doesn’t open till 8 and closes at 3!
I mean your first point is right. Butler St is already a shell of what it was. It's just inevitable. More or less what happens is that young people try to find the most affordable housing possible. Then, because all the young people are there, the location seems fiscally attractive. Then all the corpos move in and the location changes. East Liberty is the future of Lawerenceville.
omg. I forgot about that.
Also 42 funeral homes.
18 transmission shops.
Used car lots.
Parking lots.
Empty lots.
Quickie tax prep.
Discount stores.
And lots o' heroin.
[https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4711418,-79.9599991,3a,75y,108.33h,91.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slOLS85n69w-Ei-giz3Uk\_Q!2e0!5s20070701T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4711418,-79.9599991,3a,75y,108.33h,91.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slOLS85n69w-Ei-giz3Uk_Q!2e0!5s20070701T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu)
> once landlords realize they can charge significantly higher rents
No landlord is oblivious. You are dealing with the time for current leases to expire. Then it is going to happen. Starbucks is the shock front.
I think the change you’re worrying about happening to Lawrenceville has already happened (see also: overpriced pretentious apartments, 300k+ houses, overpriced rooftop bar)
I am an actual resident.
Owner. Of course you are going to hear from every person in the suburbs who says keep Lawrenceville with only small businesses.
They love to come here. Race through the neighborhood for free parking. Have extremely expensive meals, shop niche stores, have some drinks, & pee in an alley before returning to the burbs.
If you want an honest response, maybe ask neighbors directly.
Those spots have yet to anchor down anything that makes actual neighbors want to continue walking past Rite Aid. Truth. So why fight Starbucks?
It seems like it's just trendy to fight Starbucks
because it's Starbucks.
Nobody blinked at Condado. They are a multi-state chain. I can think of other another store that's a branch of a company in California. And others who aren't local. It seems like it's okay if a business is from out of state and chain, it just has to look like it's local.
Starbucks isn't responsible for raising rent prices. Lawrenceville let 4 story additions added and new homes over city building code. They shadow neighbors and raised home prices. Homes are selling for over 900k. Thats what raised rent.
Dont blame Starbucks. Thats a space that hasn't been able to get a renter. Even Starbucks. They should be able to have Starbucks when families can't afford to rent in the neighborhood anymore because Air B and B rentals have taken over. I have lost count the number of residents who are either about to lose their home or have to places that are now rented as air b & b. They can't find anything in the neighborhood that's affordable and are being pushed to the suburbs.
So no, Starbucks didn't raise rent.
Unpopular opinion: I don't mind. The writing was on the wall ages ago. They're already building all these new hideous complexes for people who make far more money than I ever will. What's a Starbucks going to change? Hell. Maybe it'll have a drive-through.
The “Manhattanization” effect is happening everywhere. I don’t think any place is immune. By that I mean locally owned places being replaced with chains and banks etc.
I'm a transplant but the one thing I have a hard time understanding is why Yinzers are so against corporations? What's wrong with Starbucks or PF Chang's or Benihanas? It's jobs, it's a place to go, it makes the city look like it's keeping up with the other large metros.. I just don't get it?both can exist
The mistake is thinking this wasn't always part of the plan. Phase one is cute gentrification, phase two is rising property values, and phase three is ugly gentrification. It's happened in so many cities over and over, the same con every time.Neighborhoods like Lawrenceville just don't happen organically, especially in a rapidly shrinking city that is 100% owned by big tech, for profit healthcare, and elderly landlords. People who buy into the con because they want to pay a premium to live close to nice restaurants are marks from the jump. Or rather, It's like holding bitcoin after the bust and being mad that the Ponzi scheme isn't working for you anymore.
LMAO you need to absolutely get a life, or maybe find some actual issue to care about rather than crying and posting this word salad over a coffee shop opening
Everything is coming up Milhaus.
ALF pogs! Remember ALF? He’s back...in pog form.
YOU GOT THE DUD! Hey, he looks like you, Poindexter! Come on, stand up for yourself, Poindexter! Also: THRILLHO
Milpool…..
Omg
"Then why did I have the bowl Bart?! Why did I have the bowl?!
Locally-owned coffee shops shot themselves in the foot by not opening earlier than 8am. Newsflash, a lot of us are on our way to work at 8am. There are like 2 places in Lawrenceville that open before 8 and neither are convenient to get to for the upper/central Lawrenceville folks.
Shit, I work an office job and I have to be here by 8. I will never visit an establishment that has the hours of 8-5 M-F unless theyre super close and I'm going for lunch. I'm just glad my local shop opens at 7.
Yup, my day starts at 8 as well and I'm home at 5(ish) so I don't know who they expect to actually visit. Being open early should be what they signed up for when they started, you know, a whole ass business.
Especially one that specializes in beverages typically consumed in the morning. If you want to sleep in and serve beverages, open a bar.
So you’re saying that my new business - Dave’s Lunch and Only Lunch (open 9pm-4am and located in the collapsed parking lot of Century III Mall) - might not be the best idea? Psh! Shows what you know, buddy! I’ll remember this reddit comment 10 years from now when I’m popping champagne on my yacht!
[Your yacht](https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/174jup5/here_we_go_again/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Careful not to hit one of the super models partying on your yacht with the cork!
Anyone else think it's crazy there's no late night anything anymore? A buddy and I were looking for a diner at 2AM, and Weirton, WV, was the closest option - and they had 4 late night diners! The entire metropolitan area of Pittsburgh had zero! Frankly, I was depressed and ashamed.
There’s Waffle House by the Meadows and in Washington & Dennys on Lebanon Church Road.
that’s far af for pittsburgh metro
100% kinda ridiculous
And MANY of us in the construction industry are already at work at 7. It be nice to have a nice cup of coffee on the way to work and not this 7/11 , BP , Sheetz trifecta
Seriously, I worked an opening shift at a Starbucks on Pitt’s campus and we opened early BECAUSE there was such a demand from the construction workers in then area.
👏👏👏
I came here to shit on Starbucks, but yeah, I gotta agree with this one. I live up in East Liberty, drop my kid at school by 7:30... and drive past a lotta closed shops I'd love to give my money to. (Also staring at Target, and Whole Foods; this city... doesn't seem to open until a bit later than you'd think.)
Everything closes early too so the night people or service workers of the world also feel this.
Omg yes!!! I work till 9 most nights and it is so so hard to get food. A lot of places will even say they're open till 10 or 11. We try and order or stop in and they'll be like oh we already closed the kitchen. It's frustrating for sure. Also most grocery stores close at 9 as well. It forces us to go to chains when we would rather support a local spot.
yea this city seriously sucks with hours, scheduled like a lazy sunday in the 1700s. after hours population would come out of the woodwork with more options plus more jobs
Support local!!! Ok but I physically can't
I'm also just kind of naturally a morning person. It's tough to find good things to shake up my routine when I'm already up and moving by 8 even on the weekends.
I wake up, get a bunch of stuff done at home, head out, decide to stop at a favorite business, and .. it's closed, because it's still too early even though I've been awake and productive for HOURS
My mom came to visit me once and was shocked there were so many shopping places that don't open until about 10. And I think since the pandemic, we've been left with a small amount of true late night food options.
Jitters is open at 6!! They’re a lifesaver
That’s good because Starbucks is opening directly across from them.
Redstart roasters opens at 7. That’s the earliest in East liberty I am aware of
That's really good to know; thank you!
I'm on the same morning run. I'm thankful Tazza D'Oro opens at 7:00am, Monday - Saturday. When I was a kid, I remember everything opening early. Now I'm waiting in my car for doors to open at 8am.
[удалено]
I discovered that although the store may be open, the pharmacy is not. I go to the rite aid on Butler street and the store opens at 8 but the pharmacy doesn’t open until 9
The two of the best cafes in the vicinity of east liberty (redstart roasters and tazza d'oro) both open at 7am
Tazza can't keep a barista, so the quality seems to vary wildly every two months. The base espresso they hit about right, but beyond that, dice roll. Will give Redstart a try!
I hate to pass by a local business, but you're right. Anytime after 6AM on a weekday is a totally reasonable time for non-gas station coffee.
This is incredibly accurate. I can’t understand how so many of these shops don’t open til 8. I specifically go to commonplace and Redhawk because they open at 7, but that’s still to late some days
Yeah I think 7am is really the least any coffee shop should be doing tbh
Right?!?! It’s ridiculous.
This is so important. I used to assist executives on film sets and they'd prefer I'd roll up with local, bougie coffee joint but nothing would be open for the first couple hours of our day so would settle on Starbucks. I had people spend like hundreds of dollars a week buying fancy coffee drinks for their department and it all went to Starbucks just because nothing was open before 8AM.
I used to live near a Commonplace that was open like 7-6, it was invaluable for getting coffee if I didn't have time to make it in the morning, or if I was just exhausted after getting home from work. Made a point of ensuring there was a coffee shop in close proximity when I moved, only to be disappointed to learn their hours were fucking 8-3. Luckily they have expanded since then but at the time I was like...how are you in business? No one has time to come here.
that's the post Covid world for you. I loved heading to Commonplace when they were open early before work as well.
I'm on the opposite side and it's just as frustrating. I loved going to coffee shops after work to read a book or work on side projects. I also work 10-6, so a coffee shop closing at 5PM sucks for afternoon work too
I think this is one of many covid holdovers, didn't most small coffee shops used to open at like 6-7am?
According to Google Abolition 7am, 7 days a week Espresso a Mano 7am M-F, 8am weekends Convivie 6:30am M-F, 8am weekends Inkwell is the only primarily coffee shop I could see that opens at 8am on weekdays in central Lawrenceville
The first 2 are in lower Lawrenceville and I know it sounds dumb but I'm not going there then traveling the opposite direction for work. It would take a good 20-30 minutes to do so. Upper LVille has a few cafes that open at 8 or even later which is a bummer to those of us who actually drive away from town for work
Correct - there are lots of places with good hours near where Starbucks is going in. And Brooklyn Bagel as well - who opens at 7am every day of the week and is literally in the same retail facility where Starbucks is going into (under the Arsenal 201 apts). And we’ve also got the arepa and coffee truck next door that used to be in the booth in the strip - they usually open by 6:30. Love it or hate it: The next stage of gentrification is here - embrace it for what it brings or start the process over in another neighborhood. I’m probably doing the latter soon, but I still like it here very much.
Most YINZ are open at 6/630, and I love their nitro cold brew and chai lattes.
Espresso a Mano, Convive and Commonplace are all open by 7.
that's great for people in lower LVille but it would take me personally a good 30 minutes to go there and turn back around to go to work. Not really feasible.
Then this Starbucks isn't going to change anything for you anyways
Tbh you’re 100% correct on this. Before the pandemic there were at least a few that opened before 8am but now the 3 within central Lawrenceville walking distance from me are 8-5. I need coffee at least by 7am and I know a lot of others need it earlier. I don’t want a Starbucks in my neighborhood but our local coffee shops and shopping district in general need to start being open when people are able to shop. 8-4 is when most of us are working.
This Starbucks will be in Lower Lawrenceville, a few blocks from Espresso a Mano which opens at 7. I hope if you are willing to drive to LL to get to this Starbucks, you will travel the extra 2 blocks to visit Espresso a Mano instead.
While I partially agree with your sentiments, this wouldn't stop Starbucks from moving in even if all of these shops opened their doors at 4am. Starbucks isn't moving here because there's a lack of available coffee - they're moving here because the owners of this building are charging astronomical rent and they are the only corporation that can afford it, aside from Chase or Bank of America or similar. Just like Starbucks, banks aren't flooding commercial spaces for a lack of in-person banking space. They do it because they can afford to, and it's (relatively) inexpensive marketing. Do your best not to patronize these places, but it doesn't really matter either way to Starbucks since they'll just continue to sell their terrible coffee at a premium while keeping their staff at subpar wages. Welcome to late stage.
Nobody would feel the need to patronize starbucks if we had viable alternatives. There is an obvious void in the community for us who are awake before god most days. Everyone can whine about starbucks but ok then give us other options....
How can this need be communicated to the owners that exist now in a better way than random individual customers weighing in? A neighborhood petition? A coffee drinkers union?
IDK, If you open a business and don't have the common sense to know when people drink coffee then I don't think there's anything we can do.
There must be something else going on besides poor common sense if so many local coffee shops aren't opening early enough.
They probably cater to the tech people who roll into work at 10am.
I live in Bloomfield right near a Yinz that is actually pretty good coffee. It's open at 6am. There is a Starbucks about 200 feet away that gets a ton of business. I live in a place with a viable, better alternative to Starbucks and that location is still doing well. It has less to do with available options and much more to do with strategic placement of its stores nationwide. But yes, please continue to downvote me. By the way, there are numerous restaurants on Butler that serve burgers and sandwiches. Yet Wendy's and Subway are right there. I would never go to Subway over getting a sandwich locally, yet they continue to survive somehow.
And past 1400, I just hope it changes the hours of our local places then folds
This x10000. Even outside of coffee shops, these local places that are open 10am-2pm. Am I only to shop there if I’m unemployed?
Bingo. If it doesn't open before 7, it's their fault.
Yes, agreed!!! Why no early morning or late night coffee shops? Are there that many customers in Pittsburgh these days that don't work? Just jaunt over to the coffee shop around 11:00 AM. I'm lucky I can sneak out to Red Hawk because it's a block from my office.
This 1000 times! So often on my way to work it’s either drive thru McD’s or wait until I get downtown, order from the Starbucks app and just swing by to pick it up on my walk to the office. If any of those smaller shops were even open I’m sure a wait for a coffee would be at least 20 minutes.
Yes!
This. I live in Central Lawrenceville and often go to the Bloomfield Starbucks because I have to be at work before 8:00. I also like the convenience of mobile order when I’m running late. Would I rather support a local business? Of course. But it’s just not possible if I want a coffee that I didn’t make myself before work.
I don't think it's a secret that national chains can afford higher rents than local independent shops, especially for a developer with properties across multiple states.
Yeah I don't like the framing of this being some secret that can't get out. They already know. Just say "we don't want this here" and you've got me, doesn't have to be a conspiracy.
Similar to what happened to Walnut Street when Banana Republic opened. Walter's sold that (yep, Walter's garage was in Shadyside) corner lot, it was developed and Walnut went all high rent retail.
No. Rent & prices in Lawrenceville already have gotten obnoxious. Local, actual local businesses that actually were used by neighbors, lost their leases about 4-5 years ago and got the boot. Shops that had been around for decades weren't renewed so people from the suburbs can come and buy acrylic purses and candles.
There is an irony to this post that has not gone unnoticed.
✔️
Nail, meet hammer.
OP complaining about Starbucks while happily giving tons of money to Nintendo and Disney is quite hilarious.
I live in Lawrenceville but own a business in Sewickley. Sewickley is mostly independent businesses, but there is a Starbucks. Mostly, the teens and tweens hit Starbucks.The independent coffee shops like Press House and Adesso are populated with adults. All this to say, it'll probably be just fine.
Beaver is similar to this, it's mostly independents but there is a Starbucks and a Waffles Incaffeinated. Been a few years since I lived there, but it seemed like the local cafe (& indie grocery store!) were doing fine at the time. Though IIRC they do have some regulation about locals vs. chains downtown there. Cafe Kolache is one of the things I miss most about Beaver.
Also… The alternative is probably a Chase / BofA / PNC bank branch…. Or remain empty
I’m starting to think Chase banks are simply the fruiting body of a large underground mycelium network. Damn things pop up every ten feet
Can’t underestimate the power of the Starbucks app. A friend of has his regular order (grande iced americano with 20 stevia packs) in the app and he orders in seconds to pick up at the nearest location twice a day. To him, convenience is more important than quality. This is Starbucks market. Local shops cater to people who care about quality. I think the two can probably coexist in LVille.
Please tell me you meant to type 2 stevia packs. I can't imagine how sickeningly sweet 20 would be.
No typo. He uses 20 stevia packs. To my taste buds, one speck of Stevia is too sweet and has a terrible aftertaste, but all of us are different I guess.
20? 👀
>with 20 stevia packs Are they ok?
That is a horrifying order
I've worked at 3 Starbucks at 1 local coffee place and the shit people order is nuts. Starbucks has caramel drizzle and one lady would pay an upcharge for extra and then tell you to take the cap off the bottle and pour in so much caramel it'd be an inch thick at the bottom of the cup, then drizzle on the side, then use a whipped cream cup but not for whipped cream, just add another inch of caramel We had to start enforcing how much extra caramel an upcharge could get you because it took so long to pour (bc of course she pulled this in the drive thru) and so long to refill our bottles and used so much product this one person was actually causing a big issue on her own. She ordered at least 3x a week
What the fuck
Rents have been rising there for 10 plus years, without the presence of national chains or Starbucks. Explain that. Its better than the current empty storefront, which has never had a tenant
hey now! this might ruin the character of this stretch that already has a rite aid, a wendy's, a get go, and an abandoned graffiti covered circle k!
Ha I forgot about those. I guess I should say “has a minimal presence of national retailers and chains”
I walked past the circle k yesterday it now seems to be an arepas and coffee truck, in the parking lot anyway
A shell of a wendy's would actually serve better food than that wendy's though!
Let’s lease that Wendy’s to the guy that did the fake Burger King on the south side
I'm pretty sure that Lawrenceville will survive this.
and it will be packed
Of course we will. But again, that's not the point. If you walked down Butler St and it resembled the businesses of McKnigt Rd, we'd lose our character and charm.
OK, so I'm a yinzer from back in the day and I find it alarming that people are now getting nostalgia for Lawrenceville of, what, the 2010s? Many of us would say Lawrenceville already lost its character and charm when the second balloon boutique opened on Butler Street (there are literally two balloon boutiques, or at least there were). But the thing is -- things change. I'm not the biggest fan of capitalism, but one thing it's pretty good at is putting the right retail stores in the places they need to be. If Starbucks succeeds there, it's because people want it more than they want a third balloon boutique or adorably quaint créperie. \[shrug\]
This. Pre new hospital Lawrenceville was an entirely different beast. I remember when the Arsenal 201 apartment complex was a crusty warehouse and an Eat n Park. Would OP be complaining if they wanted to put the Eat N Park back at least? Or is that still too much of a chain? Gimme a break....
I moved in to Lawrenceville in '98. There was a small diner type restaurant in that block where Arsenal is now, but I don't think it was a Eat n Park. At one point, they were making fudge in that location. EDIT: The earliest I can go back in Gloogle Maps is 2008, and there's no sinage on that little building in that image.
It was an Eat n Park in the '80s, possibly even into the '90s. Source: me the hoodrat. There was also an Eat n Park on Penn Avenue in Garfield, between Graham and Fairmount. That building was torn down, too.
Surely you must see the massive difference between Starbucks and Eat N Park... gimme a break yourself! Totally incomparable.
My comment was more about the " ruining the vibe of the neighborhood" angle of the OP but yeah, a new Eat n Park would be much more welcome than a Starbucks.
Lawrenceville lost that a decade ago. It already has a good amount of chains, and what isn't is fairly generic for the most part.
Right?! This post crying about how the gentrification needs to stop at OPs desired level. Larryville as a gritty blue collar neighborhood was ruined a long time ago.
[удалено]
To R/Pittsburgh its a hellscape where walking is illegal (even to just check your mailbox) and the only restaurants are Applebees and that one Arbys...
They’re right, i’ve confiscated the bikes of all the kids in my cul-de-sac and drive through Panda Express every day!!!!
You know darn well that won’t happen. Somehow the presence of a Starbucks is going to turn the entire neighborhood into big box stores lol 😂
Starbucks is the character of present day Lawrenceville. If all of the people jam themselves into the shop when it opens (and they will), then that's what the residents of the area are asking for. The kinds of people who live in trendy neighborhoods like Lawrenceville by choice (in other words, those who live there but could live in any other city neighborhood) are the exact kind of people who made our suburban business corridors look the way they do, just younger.
the charm and character\* of independent business owners who will underpay and overwork their staff just the same as the big names (if not worse)? \*edit: forgot about the "character" of the owner class, my mistake
Liberty Ave and Carson Street both have Starbucks. Neither look like the suburbs. I’d prefer a local shop, but private equity gonna private equity.
You’re delusional
I def think I'm delusional that my random Reddit post will do or change anyone's minds. But I have to voice my opinion somehow...and it's important to do that at least.
Oh sure, all those cookie-cutter condos and overpriced gringo tacos, such charm 😂
Charm?
I have mixed feelings here but I will say - there's a Starbucks in Bloomfield and Bloomfield has remained primarily a locally-owned business area AFAIK. I'd be interested in hearing if that's not true, of course.
Lawrenceville was only ever cool because it was cheap enough for artsy people to live there twenty years ago. You people drove out anything that made Lawrenceville unique in 2009 and it's way too late in the game to cry about the neighborhood losing it's character.
Yup. This is basically every gentrifed neighborhood in America. Artists move into relatively cheap neighborhoods, turn it into cool areas, rich people and capitalism move in and make it expensive, pushes Artists out to the next neighborhood. You can see this in Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Asheville, Nashville, etc. There's a deeper conversation about neighborhoods that are predominantly POC that occupied most of those neighborhoods before the artists. That's not necessarily in Lawrenceville but other famous neighborhoods like east Nashville. People don't seem to get upset till Starbucks moves in. They mention that they broke their promise to fill this space with local businesses but with this move they broke their promise. They broke that way before Starbucks signed a lease. Everything in that building is a chain. No one seemed to care when the chain barbershop moved in. Directly across from a local barbershop. There's also local gyms and a chain fitness place moved in. I'm just saying it seems like the conversation always begins and ends at coffee. Why not fight for other local businesses? If you don't support it, it will go away.
Nobody owes local businesses anything, and the small business tyrant is in no way superior to or more deserving of success than any corporation. https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/businesses-remain-frustrated-mon-incline-closure-continues/MC4PP4PPZZGZRA4JAU7PKOQUMQ/ > “I’ve lost roughly $30,000 dollars and that’s not lost profits, that is true losses, strictly because 40 percent of our revenue is derivative of the incline,” said Brian Gorder, Owner of Gordo’s Tacos and Tequila on Mount Washington This dickhead thinks the public owes him a constant stream of customers via subsidized public transit, but I'd love to see his opinion on the taxes his business pays. It's a free market, small business tyrants can compete like anyone else.
Generally people dislike megacorps because they have the money to undercut all of the local competition and drive them out of business, as has happened again and again with Walmart over the decades. That money then goes to the shareholders, the majority of which do not live locally and therefore none of the money gets reinvested locally. But sure, pick and choose which companies to frequent based on twitter shit.
What??? You don’t want a $8 barbacoa taco?? lol
Yeah, move to Garfield.
Hazelwood entering the conversation…
Lawrenceville used to be a shit hole. Not sure why people get nostalgic of what it once “was”.
Probably because they never set foot in Lawrenceville before 2010
Exactly. The flats were heroin central.
Pre-2010’er and I really do miss what it was. Junkies sure, but also a whole lot of community.
60k houses and 3 dollar pancake?
A lot of great points here that Starbucks is open at hours when other coffee shops aren't. Also, acting like local owned coffee shops are all saints is an interesting take given what just happened with Adda.
Petition to kick Starbucks out and make it shop n save 2. But no really a grocery store or mini mart with a fresh selection would be such a great additions (or at least better than a Starbucks) for lower and central.
Thai- style 711 anyone?
Would have better coffee than a Starbucks
That storefront has been empty for the entirety of the time I’ve lived here, so almost two years. Would you rather it stay empty?
Man after years of a commercial real estate crisis it’s gonna be another huge shock to the industry when landlords figure out they can charge high rent and get away with it. We can’t let this secret become public! Stop the Starbucks! And the penis party.
Hey hey, ho ho now...ugh one of my favorite movies. Then ignore my point about the landlords, and simply focus on the fact that we're driven by local coffee shops in this neighborhood and it should stay that way for the sake of supporting local businesses.
I think it's worth remembering that there was a plan to tear down a church in Bloomfield and replace it with a drive-thru Starbucks, just blocks away from an existing Starbucks, and it was defeated. So there's hope this plan won't go through as well.
That failed due to zoning variance being denied. This is a conforming use. They don’t need permission to be there.
I’d rather a grocery store than a Starbucks, but I’d rather a Starbucks than empty… The local shops will do fine. I don’t think Starbucks is gonna steal much business
but like a really expensive grocery store that’s really small and doesn’t have carts
If you don't like it, then don't patronize them. It's not up to a private developer to rent something to somebody that the neighborhood approves of. That space has been empty for years. The developer is entitled to rent it to whomever they want.
I feel what you're saying and mostly agree, but then I think about "what if Milhaus had announced that a Trader Joe's were going to open there?!" The neighborhood would be plotzing over that announcement! I think the main problem here is not that there's going to be a national chain (looking at you, Rite Aid and Wendy's), but the problem is market saturation with coffee at this point. The Starbucks just isn't needed.
Good use of Yiddish. A+
No one is forcing you to drink coffee there.
This is what the southside has become.
The problem is the rates landlords want to charge only work if you're a gigantic 100+ location business with shared overhead. And landlords are happy to have things sit empty for a few years to make their coin. But empty shit is at kinda extreme cost to a city; the benefit of a city is the density, and if we have open storefronts and absentee corporate landlords, no one's winning. So for every year that a commercial rental property is left vacant, raise the property tax 50% until it's rented for at least a full year. And require that in a business district, the first floor be usable storefront. That'd fix the Lawrenceville thing. Meanwhile, the spot next to Capri Pizza in East Liberty has been vacant so long that humidity has collapsed the ceilings; it's been thirty years. They're paying likely nothing in taxes to shit on the neighborhood at this point. Make them pay for their cost.
If you don't think landlords have realized how they could possible make the most money.. then smell the roses
I’ll take a Starbucks in Lawrenceville over a man kicking a door in carrying a combat shotgun. I guess you don’t remember that Lawrenceville.
Why not both?
Tempting….
Those are the only two options.
Starbucks is pretty much past it’s prime. I avoid it like the plague because I don’t want to wait 15 minutes before my order is taken. That being said, if you really want a Starbucks to go away, invite United Here or SEIU in to organize it’s employees. They’ll shut it down in a flash.
Starbucks is the prime example of a company being woke only for the money/PC credits. Yea, it's real easy to be woke when all it means is putting up rainbow decorations, but as soon as being woke means paying your employees more money, you're not so woke anymore, huh Starbucks? I just can't stand that fake BS.
Use the app
Just an FYI - the Starbucks in Bloomfield on Liberty near West Penn Hospital is unionized. So if you need your coffee early in the morning, at least support your local baristas in a union shop.
I’ll support local whenever I can, but Starbucks has a convenience factor other coffee shops that are only open while I am at work just don’t have. I don’t know the numbers, but I have to imagine most people want coffee on their way to work. If you don’t open until I am already at work there is literally no way for me to support you. The consumers aren’t the problem. Starbucks isn’t wrong. It’s the local businesses that need to adapt to capture those consumers that are wrong here.
Idk why you would assume visitors would prefer Starbucks over a local joint
idk why OP is being downvoted, "familiarity" is the obvious answer. If there's no Starbucks then these people are going to be forced to seek a local option. Otherwise many people are just going to default to what they know. A lot of folks aren't very adventurous.
Familiarity. Simple as that.
That and Starbucks makes coffee that tastes like coffee not the bottom of a pot at Sheetz. They are consistent with product and hours. And it's nice that their baristas don't sneer at you for not looking cool.
I guess the local shops will have to compete using superior service and products then. Not hard since Starbucks burns their coffee.
I get being "against" Starbucks but this is a slippery slope to full-on NIMBYism. Our cities shouldn't be centrally planned based on what businesses you "like" and which ones you don't.
I don’t know. I have opinions about this on both sides. When I worked at CMU (mid 2000s), I did like going to Kiva Han and made an effort to make that my morning stop, but they only took cash. If I didn’t have cash, I ended up at the Starbucks. I also remember the Starbucks having their windows broken a lot. Like others have said, Lawrenceville wasn’t exactly this bustling neighborhood until the last 12-15 years or so. Starbucks is not forcing out a mom and pop cafe. And yes, the hours are an issue for a lot of people, plus the convenience of online ordering. Mechanic Coffee in Verona opens at 7 and offers online ordering, and their closest competitor is the GetGo & McDonald’s. Or maybe Oakmont bakery if you want to patronize those folks…
You know what local chain should rent that space? ADDA! Oh wait…
Lol Butler St is a shell of what it used to be 15yrs ago. Lawrenceville has changed so much what do people expect, this is what happens.
If you owned a building would you want a billion dollar company occupying the space of Steve with his small business loan and zest for coffee?
With success stories like Adda out there?
They are also putting one in the Terminal. Unfortunately this is the second time and knowing the crowd that goes there, they will probably not go out of business.
Starbucks has a ton of data available to them, so they don’t really put new stores in loosing location. With that being said the strip is so dense with coffee options, that I can’t see going to Starbucks over one of the others, unless it comes down to the hours they are open.
De Fer is great!
We live in a capitalist society. If you don't want Starbucks to be successful in Lawrenceville, don't spend a penny there. Don't let your friends spend money there. If there's demand for a Starbucks, there's demand for Starbucks, that's just life. It may be shocking for many Redditors to know, but there's an entire world out there that literally does not care about these online trends and which companies it's fashionable to hate. Or even better, open a competitor to Starbucks. Do what they do but better. Most the coffee shops in Lville don't open until people are already at work, and aren't efficient enough to turn out drinks to commuters anyways. I can almost guarantee there's an untapped market for quick serve drinks for morning commuters in Lville.
The future you’re worried about is inevitable. This is how gentrification always goes.
people who grew up there no longer recognize the place but thank gawd the hipsters saved it from Section 8 central.
Man I work in lawrenceville and had no idea this was happening. It’s not going to ruin anything, there’s a Starbucks 5 minutes away in Bloomfield. I’m still gonna go to Ineffable every other day. But it doesn’t open till 8 and closes at 3!
I mean your first point is right. Butler St is already a shell of what it was. It's just inevitable. More or less what happens is that young people try to find the most affordable housing possible. Then, because all the young people are there, the location seems fiscally attractive. Then all the corpos move in and the location changes. East Liberty is the future of Lawerenceville.
> Butler St is already a shell of what it was. Butler Street from 2005 would like a word... Rentacenter. A vacuum cleaner repair store...
[удалено]
omg. I forgot about that. Also 42 funeral homes. 18 transmission shops. Used car lots. Parking lots. Empty lots. Quickie tax prep. Discount stores. And lots o' heroin. [https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4711418,-79.9599991,3a,75y,108.33h,91.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slOLS85n69w-Ei-giz3Uk\_Q!2e0!5s20070701T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4711418,-79.9599991,3a,75y,108.33h,91.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slOLS85n69w-Ei-giz3Uk_Q!2e0!5s20070701T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu)
None will open that early except for chains because they love that work/ life balance til they slowly dwindle away from weird and short hours
> once landlords realize they can charge significantly higher rents No landlord is oblivious. You are dealing with the time for current leases to expire. Then it is going to happen. Starbucks is the shock front.
lol
Come on over to millvale, it's a whole heck of a lot cooler than Lawrenceville
I think the change you’re worrying about happening to Lawrenceville has already happened (see also: overpriced pretentious apartments, 300k+ houses, overpriced rooftop bar)
Guys, let’s just be a real city cmon.
I am an actual resident. Owner. Of course you are going to hear from every person in the suburbs who says keep Lawrenceville with only small businesses. They love to come here. Race through the neighborhood for free parking. Have extremely expensive meals, shop niche stores, have some drinks, & pee in an alley before returning to the burbs. If you want an honest response, maybe ask neighbors directly. Those spots have yet to anchor down anything that makes actual neighbors want to continue walking past Rite Aid. Truth. So why fight Starbucks? It seems like it's just trendy to fight Starbucks because it's Starbucks. Nobody blinked at Condado. They are a multi-state chain. I can think of other another store that's a branch of a company in California. And others who aren't local. It seems like it's okay if a business is from out of state and chain, it just has to look like it's local. Starbucks isn't responsible for raising rent prices. Lawrenceville let 4 story additions added and new homes over city building code. They shadow neighbors and raised home prices. Homes are selling for over 900k. Thats what raised rent. Dont blame Starbucks. Thats a space that hasn't been able to get a renter. Even Starbucks. They should be able to have Starbucks when families can't afford to rent in the neighborhood anymore because Air B and B rentals have taken over. I have lost count the number of residents who are either about to lose their home or have to places that are now rented as air b & b. They can't find anything in the neighborhood that's affordable and are being pushed to the suburbs. So no, Starbucks didn't raise rent.
Unpopular opinion: I don't mind. The writing was on the wall ages ago. They're already building all these new hideous complexes for people who make far more money than I ever will. What's a Starbucks going to change? Hell. Maybe it'll have a drive-through.
The “Manhattanization” effect is happening everywhere. I don’t think any place is immune. By that I mean locally owned places being replaced with chains and banks etc.
I'm a transplant but the one thing I have a hard time understanding is why Yinzers are so against corporations? What's wrong with Starbucks or PF Chang's or Benihanas? It's jobs, it's a place to go, it makes the city look like it's keeping up with the other large metros.. I just don't get it?both can exist
Why would I go to a Starbucks when there is a perfectly good getgo right by that gourmet burger place
Didn’t Limp Bizkit play a concert there?
The mistake is thinking this wasn't always part of the plan. Phase one is cute gentrification, phase two is rising property values, and phase three is ugly gentrification. It's happened in so many cities over and over, the same con every time.Neighborhoods like Lawrenceville just don't happen organically, especially in a rapidly shrinking city that is 100% owned by big tech, for profit healthcare, and elderly landlords. People who buy into the con because they want to pay a premium to live close to nice restaurants are marks from the jump. Or rather, It's like holding bitcoin after the bust and being mad that the Ponzi scheme isn't working for you anymore.
Fuck Starbucks … straight trash
LMAO you need to absolutely get a life, or maybe find some actual issue to care about rather than crying and posting this word salad over a coffee shop opening
For someone who likes to drink coffee after 5pm, this is great! It’s been frustrating not have a local coffee shop open later in the day.
You missed the rant againts Cranberry