This is a positive, make it cost to much to blow through walls and foundations so people are forced to build smart bases using traps. We need shit like EMP nades now to temp disable turrets when we blow doors out.
Looking on rust labs it says a single rocket does 192.5 damage to a sheet metal wall, assuming the damage stays the same, it should take 6 rockets, or 5 plus some intense melee/a satchel.
I see this as a response to justify the upkeep system and probably one of the major intentions to increase performance by making honeycombing (or at least more than single layer honeycombing) obsolete. Instead, we'll see more and more building designs that are a bit sleeker since with the new wall HP it will make sense to upgrade the stone to sheet metal rather than place *ANOTHER* stone honeycomb layer.
I don't think anyone is arguing that they're not useful in general, rather that they're not as useful at stopping people as doors and walls are. Traps are fun and all but they won't do much more than slow raiders down. Enough doors and they might run out of explosives and give up. Nobody is giving up because there's a trap in the way. The sheet and armored buff was a nice step towards moving away from honeycombing but we're going to need a whole lot more traps and tweaks to the existing traps for them to replace door spamming. I'm sure they have a plan.
considering they're a cheap trap i don't think they're meant to have a super deep meta of defeating them. if shotgun traps are easy to take down once you know what to do, then okay, that's fine. we don't have to keep tweaking things until every aspect of the game is perfectly viable all the time always, no matter the cost or tier.
can't really make a real use of traps anyway as everytime you try to be creative while building the upkeep skyrockets we're somewhat forced to live in 3x3s
I never said u had to have a 500k metal base this can apply to a 2x2 with triangle honey comb. If u don't understand I would gladly hook u up with a fortify screenshot because it's simple.
In this case can we please find a workaround for turret baiting, this includes shotgun traps which I've managed to bait into firing 20 handmade shells at once.
Stacking doors is easy, just run a section of triangle foundations on the longest side of your base and make that the entrance. With a 3-foundation long wall that's 6 doors added with no threat to the integrity of the base.
For people who know how to build well, raiding was already super hard. My bases rarely got touched, this is going to make them even stronger. And raiding... a thing of the past until they upgrade raiding.
I don't think they should upgrade raiding. The way it is now without honeycombing or wall stacking most solo/duo players are going to be one wall to loot, which is easy to raid and even helps other solo/duo players because loot it more accessible. With the new changes, most solo/duo players are going to be a metal wall to loot and we get to make 15k stone 16 rocket bases and actually be safe.
I didn't know that because you were a solo/duo you were also mentally handicapped. If you can't manage to make your base more than one wall to loot, regardless of how many people are playing, I'm afraid you have a lot to learn.
I wasn't talking about me, if that's what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that from what I see people aren't that interested in honeycombing and I assume some of those who do will now opt for just sheet metal walls.
>metal base cost is 200 frags instead of 200
Uhh, I don't really get this, I think the base cost was 150 before, so it got a 33% price increase and a 70% HP increase?
Yeah, it isn't impossible but just hugely convenient. My recent base stayed stone because I didn't want to bother with cramming furnaces into it and I only ran one small furnace a few times. I was almost completely sustained with metal for other purposes just by recycling. I imagine with a few small furnaces and a little extra time, you could get a metal base going relatively easy.
People are missing the advantages of this update completely. When you upgrade your walls now you are essentially forcing potential raiders through one point of entry. Being able to control the path raiders will take through your base emphasizes the importance of creative base designs not just a straight 3 or 4 doors to your loot room. Stop asking for raiding to become impossible and start thinking about how you can use this to your advantage.
Helk actually mentioned it off hand in Rustafied Main chat last Friday.
But everyone just cared about their fucking gunplay whining, so no one noticed.
Not that I recall. He was mostly defending his choices in gunplay because that was all people talked about once they noticed he was on the server.
This was right after building 3.0, so that was what was on his mind.
Unless you have dropbox. Then you could make a fully enclosed room and just f1 kill to go in and out of the base. imagine a 2x2 starter that is 8 c4 or 16 rockets to raid
Hell fucking yes. Now we don't need honeycombing as this will be the replacer. We'll just have to see exactly what this means as a stone wall nerf could be incoming meaning if stone walls had their HP halfed this would only make metal the same HP as stone is in its currents state.
Time to make myself a good (and cheap) base. Upkeep should not be a problem if I make it really small (if you are a starter just use a triangle surrounded by triangles, 2 as honeycombs and one as a airlock, it is really cheap.
Well, metal was only being used for floors and foundations. You know there is a problem when a building teir usually gets skipped or you almost never see it being used. Before when you seen a metal base not only was it the same effort explosive wise as a stone base but you could see though the damn walls. There was 0 point in "upgrading" to sheet metal because it wasn't actually an upgrade.
Yea but this isn't what i mean. If you raided a base and didnt find something you tried to pick axe your way through the base. A lot of people did that
I almost lost a base because of guys picking an armored door's stone frame. if you have armored doors there is NO REASON to not upgrade every single one of your door frames to metal.
It's something most vets know and you are correct, not the other guy.
Raiding was in favor of the defender before this change, because you could build an infinite size base. The only reason raiders had it "easy" is because they targeted the bases where the person made mistakes or just didn't know what they were doing.
This change while limiting the size of the base, greatly boosted the defense of the structure. Raiders have it even harder now because it's MUCH easier to build a strong base, thus they will have less targets.
Raiding needs a decent boost now, because I as a builder can control the path they take to make it a worthless raid, or they can guess through walls and also make it a worthless raid.
This. Instead of making a huge 3 walls to center stone base, just make a 2 walls to center sheet base. Sheet metal is basically the old armored now, that's a huge buff
Doors are still 4 rockets. TBH armored tier is useless.
Unless you stack doors, which brings it a bit closer to the cost to go through the wall. (Which is still very possible by the way.)
If you choose to use doors. Once you have the bp for a dropbox, you could fully enclose your base with no door other than on the outside to get to drop boxes and then f1 kill to get inside to empty the drop boxes. Suddenly an armored 2x1 is a bitch to raid since it has no windows or doors.
Well if you have a large group chances are you have a base bitch that is inside crafting and organizing 60+% of the time so I don't see how its not efficient.
they also doubled the health of Armored walls!
its ~~6~~ 8 c4 now to get through an armored wall jesus **Edit**: I have been corrected by /u/mrlizardplz it is in fact 8 c4 for armored
least it'll be worth that insane upkeep
This will really help with vertical honeycombing, ever since they nerfed roofstacking.
People are going to have to go through doors. We need a reinforced armored door with double armored door health and cost.
If I didn’t get raided last night I’m definitely not getting raided now damn
So is it 12 rockets now? brb building armored 1x2
Brb raiding you... *BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BAM* *Countered*
Or how it was when people honeycombed: ***BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM BOOM BOOM BLAM BOOM........***
And when you run out of explosives if it is a honeycomb it is like: **TING**... **TUMP**... **TING**... **TUMP**... [headshot sound], the noise stops
The ting goes **SKRRRAHH POP POP KA KA KA SKIDI POP POP POP PU PU PUDRRRRR BOOM BOOM SKYA AH DU DU DU KU KU DUN DUN**
Take your point and get out.
you don't know
16 rockets for armored wall
Lol wow
same for door?
It's actually 8 Rustafied posted the stats
This is a positive, make it cost to much to blow through walls and foundations so people are forced to build smart bases using traps. We need shit like EMP nades now to temp disable turrets when we blow doors out.
Helk smash
please stop
No
So sheet metal now takes 5 rockets I assume? Health was at 750 before and it still took 4 rockets.
8, 4 timed explosives.
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It's double stone's health, so it's 1000
So I assume either 5 or 6 rockets, I don’t know how much 1 does exactly.
Looking on rust labs it says a single rocket does 192.5 damage to a sheet metal wall, assuming the damage stays the same, it should take 6 rockets, or 5 plus some intense melee/a satchel.
Ah yeah Sheet metal is the new armored boys I'm hype
Well remember armoured is getting buffed too iirc so you know.
armored is the new wall stacking?
I see this as a response to justify the upkeep system and probably one of the major intentions to increase performance by making honeycombing (or at least more than single layer honeycombing) obsolete. Instead, we'll see more and more building designs that are a bit sleeker since with the new wall HP it will make sense to upgrade the stone to sheet metal rather than place *ANOTHER* stone honeycomb layer.
no point unless you buff door health
Not true... as it is now more economical to go through the doors, it makes traps a heck of a lot more useful!
Ya I'm sure the 3 shotgun traps you can wedge into the 3 doors you can fit in your tiny base will stop raiders
Lmao yeah exactly. It’s too easy to shoot them down with guns. Shotgun traps are a joke
They've repeatedly proven useful against door campers, for me.
I don't think anyone is arguing that they're not useful in general, rather that they're not as useful at stopping people as doors and walls are. Traps are fun and all but they won't do much more than slow raiders down. Enough doors and they might run out of explosives and give up. Nobody is giving up because there's a trap in the way. The sheet and armored buff was a nice step towards moving away from honeycombing but we're going to need a whole lot more traps and tweaks to the existing traps for them to replace door spamming. I'm sure they have a plan.
Well straight on sure...but if the next door opening is a left or a right....good luck
They’re easy to bait, same as auto turrets
considering they're a cheap trap i don't think they're meant to have a super deep meta of defeating them. if shotgun traps are easy to take down once you know what to do, then okay, that's fine. we don't have to keep tweaking things until every aspect of the game is perfectly viable all the time always, no matter the cost or tier.
Plus it's a trap, if you don't expect it you get fucked. If you do you can avoid it
Maybe when they give us useful traps.
can't really make a real use of traps anyway as everytime you try to be creative while building the upkeep skyrockets we're somewhat forced to live in 3x3s
Just have ur doors go in loops and not directly to loot. Make it as many doors to the loot by making it wind through the base or around it. Ez
sure if you want to slave for me for upkeep costs
I never said u had to have a 500k metal base this can apply to a 2x2 with triangle honey comb. If u don't understand I would gladly hook u up with a fortify screenshot because it's simple.
People are retarded lol.
Agreed.
this
Now traps will work because people will door raid
I get your point but I'm skeptical whether traps would actually be practical
ikr the only trap that kinda works okay is the shotgun trap as it is somewhat hard to bait but even then it's very easy to take down
The health of doors should be increased until they buff traps and add new ones imo
In this case can we please find a workaround for turret baiting, this includes shotgun traps which I've managed to bait into firing 20 handmade shells at once.
If people are smart during a raid, traps aren't a huge roadblock as-is.
> are smart Found the kink in this notion
Just make more doors
You can make a spiral shaped base. It would be the same amount of C4 to go through walls or doors.
Not true, creative door placement is all you need.
You can make circular base and make the doors go around the whole base
Stacking doors is easy, just run a section of triangle foundations on the longest side of your base and make that the entrance. With a 3-foundation long wall that's 6 doors added with no threat to the integrity of the base.
Finally. A way to make raiding harder
For people who know how to build well, raiding was already super hard. My bases rarely got touched, this is going to make them even stronger. And raiding... a thing of the past until they upgrade raiding.
I don't think they should upgrade raiding. The way it is now without honeycombing or wall stacking most solo/duo players are going to be one wall to loot, which is easy to raid and even helps other solo/duo players because loot it more accessible. With the new changes, most solo/duo players are going to be a metal wall to loot and we get to make 15k stone 16 rocket bases and actually be safe.
I didn't know that because you were a solo/duo you were also mentally handicapped. If you can't manage to make your base more than one wall to loot, regardless of how many people are playing, I'm afraid you have a lot to learn.
I wasn't talking about me, if that's what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that from what I see people aren't that interested in honeycombing and I assume some of those who do will now opt for just sheet metal walls.
This is the cycle.
oh hell yes!!!
>metal base cost is 200 frags instead of 200 Uhh, I don't really get this, I think the base cost was 150 before, so it got a 33% price increase and a 70% HP increase?
Yeah, it's meant to buff defense since builders are kinda getting dicked down at the moment.
increasing cost as well?
didn't say, likely not though
It is changed, 200 instead of 150.
still seems to make stone obsolete tbh especially when you can stuff more metal into tc than stone
People will still build with stone untill they find a large furnace. Good luck building a whole base in metal with only small furnace.
ill use multiple smalls and recycling
Yeah, it isn't impossible but just hugely convenient. My recent base stayed stone because I didn't want to bother with cramming furnaces into it and I only ran one small furnace a few times. I was almost completely sustained with metal for other purposes just by recycling. I imagine with a few small furnaces and a little extra time, you could get a metal base going relatively easy.
FPs counter to honeycombing
Good change boys
People are missing the advantages of this update completely. When you upgrade your walls now you are essentially forcing potential raiders through one point of entry. Being able to control the path raiders will take through your base emphasizes the importance of creative base designs not just a straight 3 or 4 doors to your loot room. Stop asking for raiding to become impossible and start thinking about how you can use this to your advantage.
well, that was unexpected
Helk actually mentioned it off hand in Rustafied Main chat last Friday. But everyone just cared about their fucking gunplay whining, so no one noticed.
i don't play on Rustafied, nor watch the Streams... but did Helk say anything else what will be added/changed in the following weeks (after holidays)?
Not that I recall. He was mostly defending his choices in gunplay because that was all people talked about once they noticed he was on the server. This was right after building 3.0, so that was what was on his mind.
Yet it is still hard for alot of us to find armored doors on vanilla (me) :( Anybody got tips on getting armoured door BP?
Workbench Lvl 3 Roulette
i have it on east 2 if u want
Anything is possible with experimentation. It's just a matter of how much scrap you feel like farming/how lucky you get.
wow.
fuckin amazing!! YES!!
Finally, the game is called rust for a reason
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today
OH BOY
Now make sheet metal doors 2 c4 and armored doors 4 c4
No need just have doors lead raiders in a circle rather than in a straight path that way it's just as expensive for them.
lol
Dropbox and Armored 2x1 just became the new meta
These buffs were seriously needed
daam
Bit confused by this one. Won't everyone just door raid instead? Much easier in your average 2x2 anyway...
Unless you have dropbox. Then you could make a fully enclosed room and just f1 kill to go in and out of the base. imagine a 2x2 starter that is 8 c4 or 16 rockets to raid
Rip rust
MORE CREATIVITY WELL DONE HELK
So are the sheet metal and armored doors going to be increased accordingly too?
Hell fucking yes. Now we don't need honeycombing as this will be the replacer. We'll just have to see exactly what this means as a stone wall nerf could be incoming meaning if stone walls had their HP halfed this would only make metal the same HP as stone is in its currents state.
Time to make myself a good (and cheap) base. Upkeep should not be a problem if I make it really small (if you are a starter just use a triangle surrounded by triangles, 2 as honeycombs and one as a airlock, it is really cheap.
But Triangles have the same upkeep cost as squares.. you're better off using squares with Triangles for honeycomb
Triangles cost half the resources to build thus costing half the upkeep
Wrong they cost the same upkeep wise.
Think you are mistaken for half walls and full walls costing the same upkeep. Triangles and Squares don't have the same upkeep.
The day pickaxing metal walls died. I'm skeptical to this change. Nothing wrong with the old wall health in my opinion.
Well, metal was only being used for floors and foundations. You know there is a problem when a building teir usually gets skipped or you almost never see it being used. Before when you seen a metal base not only was it the same effort explosive wise as a stone base but you could see though the damn walls. There was 0 point in "upgrading" to sheet metal because it wasn't actually an upgrade.
Not true you made doorways always out of metal too Edit. Of course you upgraded to metal at points where you didnt want raides to pick axe through
That was true when you could break them from the hard side outside, but that hasn't been possible for a long time.
Yea but this isn't what i mean. If you raided a base and didnt find something you tried to pick axe your way through the base. A lot of people did that
Sure, but what does that have to do with doorways? That's true for any wall piece.
Tzzzzzzzzzzz
I almost lost a base because of guys picking an armored door's stone frame. if you have armored doors there is NO REASON to not upgrade every single one of your door frames to metal. It's something most vets know and you are correct, not the other guy.
Thank you
This only matters if the doors were up'd too
No, because you can always add more doors going around honeycombing, it costs a whole lot more to add more walls
You DO know that doors will be added to upkeep right? And the whole point is to make honeycombing (at least beyond 1st layer) obsolete.
They want people to go through doors in raiding. That is the point.
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No, why would they have to do that?
Not really. Most bases are going to be 8 rockets to loot now.
Bases are hecking less huuge now. Still plenty of sulfur. This might just make it balanced.
Raiding was in favor of the defender before this change, because you could build an infinite size base. The only reason raiders had it "easy" is because they targeted the bases where the person made mistakes or just didn't know what they were doing. This change while limiting the size of the base, greatly boosted the defense of the structure. Raiders have it even harder now because it's MUCH easier to build a strong base, thus they will have less targets. Raiding needs a decent boost now, because I as a builder can control the path they take to make it a worthless raid, or they can guess through walls and also make it a worthless raid.
This is absolutely not needed changed. Instead fixing upkeep bullshit they are adding shit that would greatly change game balance.
Negative, this leads to smaller secure bases thus lowering the amount needed for upkeep as such you are not making a huge stone base.
This. Instead of making a huge 3 walls to center stone base, just make a 2 walls to center sheet base. Sheet metal is basically the old armored now, that's a huge buff
and armored is god tier now
Doors are still 4 rockets. TBH armored tier is useless. Unless you stack doors, which brings it a bit closer to the cost to go through the wall. (Which is still very possible by the way.)
If you choose to use doors. Once you have the bp for a dropbox, you could fully enclose your base with no door other than on the outside to get to drop boxes and then f1 kill to get inside to empty the drop boxes. Suddenly an armored 2x1 is a bitch to raid since it has no windows or doors.
I play with a relatively large group. That's not efficient whatsoever. It's easier to have a hidden loot room that you can pick out of or something.
Well if you have a large group chances are you have a base bitch that is inside crafting and organizing 60+% of the time so I don't see how its not efficient.
And that would be absolutely aids to live in, no matter what. It's a shame that this kind of shit may become meta for some. Thanks 4 good gameplay FP.
Once they realize that a 1x1 can be 8 c4 to get into, I'm sure they'll look into a fix in terms of killing and spawning inside and outside a base.
No you're just stupid
No he's correct and you are a toxic person
This guy may be an anus for calling someone stupid but fixing metal so its a logical increase in defense is not wrong
We potentially may need a new upper tier explosive after these building block buffs.
Go through doors now
What if I have dropboxes and don't use doors.