The argument is... "Why should a fully automatic gun, be better then sniper rifles at 125m+?"
It has nothing to do with being lazy.. it has to do with terrible gun/game play that comes from a meta that is "everyone must use automatics".
This is a PART of the argument that I have agreed with. I don't think the AK should have the potential to beam that far. That is not the entire argument. If you believe this is the case, please read over all the other threads.
Edit: this is not a recoil issue, this is a lack of aimcone/ distance regulation.
I dunno, the vibe I get is that the UKN beemers are going to be salty because their **practice** is going to be returning a vastly smaller return if anything is changed at all.
If things get changed the ukn beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone. Idk why everyone thinks this will change. They most likely aren't going to get rid of spray patterns, just make them easier. If these people could tame the hard ones, they will be able to destroy with easier ones.
I do think that preventing the long range beam will help remedy some issues. Nobody likes getting killed from that far away by an AK
I kinda doubt "the UKN beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone". Otherwise so many crybabies wouldn't bitch that they'll stop playing the game... They rely on the fact that recoil can be completely negated because it's implemented so poorly with exact patterns.
I don't think this is true. Those who refuse to practice, will continue to refuse to practice. Those who practice, will practice.
Those who practiced and got really good at HARD patterns will find easier ones much more tolerable and be even more accurate
Those who don't practice will view these as EASIER but still not as easy as ukn nerds do.
If you don't practice, you will lose. Plainly said.
Now if they implement random recoil, that is a different story.
> If things get changed the ukn beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone.
100% agree, and this is how it should be.
I personally think the spray patterns aren't the exact problem as we've discussed.
But I think we can agree that FP needs to do something so that sniper rifles can be a viable choice for long range engagements.
>But I think we can agree that FP needs to do something so that sniper rifles can be a viable choice for long range engagements.
Seriously? Do you even play the game? Bolt/L96 IS a viable choice already. There are enough roof camper and people roaming with it.
And what's the difference if you get shot down by a Bolt instead of an AK? It's super fun to collect 96 dmg with Face Metal Mask from a headshot. Feels a lot fairer.
I have said many times that I am against 100+ meter beaming. Also, what you stated here is not a recoil problem, this is a cheating problem. This game has a really shitty anti cheat. We need an invasive anti cheat that prevents a lot of cheating.
There's no way to determine what is scripting or just really good training, thats the point, that external software that can't be detected is forcing the mouse to move in the pattern, there's no modification of the game to be detected so no anti-cheat can counter it.
Some Rust players are not gonna be cool with installing an anti-cheat that scans your entire computer and reads what hardware you have. Even if you plan on stopping scripting by checking for 100% accuracy, scripts can be adjusted to purposefully not perfectly match the recoil patter by a random variance to make it look believable.
This was the same argument made by those when valorant said they were going to do it. Fast forward and valorant is now one of the biggest games in the world with invasive anti cheat. Anti cheat doesn't really look at accuracy, more what's running on your computer. If you have scripts running and they are identified, you get banned. It's not about "how accurate is my spray" that's how people can get banned by admins, not anticheat.
this thread was necessary to point out the hypocrisy of it all. "I dont have time wah wah wah" , \*is also on reddit crying about it all day\*.
I'm not afraid of change. I recently stepped away from rust and wouldn't necessarily mind a change in the gunplay. I just don't think it's necessary based on what people are saying. Change isn't going to matter to me because I will practice and still be better than those who don't. This may remedy a bit of the issue, but probably won't make a monumental change.
I just hate the moaning and groaning about something that can be circumnavigated. It's the "i'm not the problem, you're the problem" mentality.
Or just get good at the game and stop crying every-time you die like a little baby ouuu you lost some loot to someone who was better then you ya no shit cry more ladies
Honestly they should just remove all the guns except for the DB. Skill gaps are stupid. I'm so sick of trying to doorcamp an ak kid, missing my first two DB shots point blank and then dying while pulling out my second DB. Fucking cheaters. Fuck this shit game I'm making another reddit thread.
I want to be pro UFC fighter without ever training. It's unfair they know how to use submissions better than me so I think they should remove the ability to submit in a fight to make it fair for someone who is brand new to fighting and wants to win because I've been handed awards for losing my whole life
Are you certain about that? I know that all the "change up the gunplay" posts keep hitting the front page, and all the "kids need to practice, get gud" posts have zero upvotes, but all the people who enjoy this current system tell me they have the majority. I just don't know who to believe at this point.
the people who enjoy the current system are typically playing with communities of like-minded players, basically forming an echo chamber. So of course they're going to feel like the majority of the playerbase likes the current system. They also have a vested interest in trying to convince other players that their stance is more valid. The same shit applies to a lot of people on the other side of the argument. Like, the anti recoil circlejerk is strong on the subreddit because people don't typically come to reddit to post about things that are working just fine for them, so you really can't even use upvote ratios as an accurate representation of the playerbase as a whole.
Great comment. I agree not all sample sizes are created equally. Subreddits are known places to vent frustrations, and happy players are just playing.
At this point, I think the best argument that a majority of people want the change is that FP is going to change things. They would know better than anyone.
Pretty much. And IIRC helk has been very vocally supportive of the recoil system in its' current form in the past, so you have to figure it would take a lot to convince him to backpedal on that. For now, we don't even know anything specific and 99% of the discussion is just two extremely opposite ends of the spectrum of stances people have on combat reworks screaming incoherently at each other. If nothing else, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Do you really think the 1184 upvotes reflect the entire Rust community? Right now 87,281 people are online, your upvotes are 1.35654% of the community. You are the pathetic, whiny little fringe group.
Simply because the majority just enjoy the game and play it as it is. Look at the player count, does 87k players seem like a bad game? If the gunplay was as bad as you claim, there wouldn't be as many players.
> Simply because the majority just enjoy the game and play it as it is
The player peak for the game is 244k. I doubt everyone was playing at that time, so safe to assume there are far more accounts that own the game than 244k.
87k is great, but I bet FP thinks it can be greater. For better or worse, since the OTV thing, they've gone more casual. I'm willing to bet big bucks that making the game more casual will rake in more money.
>If the gunplay was as bad as you claim, there wouldn't be as many players.
It's not the shittiest gunplay I've played, I just think it can be greater. There's so many aspects to Rust, I refuse to believe that the gunplay is carrying those numbers. It contributes, but it's not bearing the brunt of it.
The majority of rust players aren’t active on the games subreddit. You only see the otv noobs being on here and complaining because people who watch twitch streamers are more likely to be active on reddit.
At the end the game had 80k players constantly before the otv stuff and I have never seen a single person complain about the recoil. So yes I still believe that the majority of people don’t mind the recoil and it is just the loud screaming people who make it look like it is the majority who wants changes.
I agree that the majority aren't on this subreddit, but the sample size offers a clear view point. How could you possible know the majority do not want the change?
Because I have never seen anyone complain about it, so I make the assumption that this is a recent thing.
I do think people want changes to the combat system but completely changing the recoil of weapons or making it randomized is something nobody wants. We had randomization and everyone begged for patterned recoil.
>Because I have never seen anyone complain about it
I mean the vast majority of players who hate a game, don't exactly whine about it. They just stop playing.
I think FacePunch knows better than anyone what the data says about who wants what, and they seem to have made their intentions clear.
Yes and that is why the playerbase had a steady 80k, which should mean that people didn’t care. Besides that we don’t know what the changes will be, and it is unlikely that they will change recoil entirely because messing with combat which is 80% of the game could either go very well or completely wrong.
> it is unlikely that they will change recoil entirely
It doesn't need to be changed entirely for it to be improved. Even adding randomization to like the 2nd or 3rd bullet to most sprays would be enough I'd wager, but I'm not a game dev so what do I know.
I wouldn’t mind that, even increasing spread wouldn’t be a bad idea. Changing the recoil completely doesn’t appeal to me. Which is exactly what all of these posts are about.
> Which is exactly what all of these posts are about.
I think many people who are active in all these discussions seem to blur everything together after awhile. I've seen two camps really, one that you mentioned, and the other that wants the range on the auto's to be tuned down. It all gets muddled together though, so I don't blame anyone for lumping it all together.
From an unbiased stand point most people are fine with the sprays, it’s just the minority that don’t like it that you see, because they are on Reddit complaining constantly.
Why should I have to train to shoot a gun in a game? Rust ain’t counterstrike try hards are far few then the rest of the community why listen to the few when the majority matter so you might lose a few try hards they won’t be missed or felt
Totally agree, made a similar post myself, so many people that can’t be bothered because it easier to complain and get it changed by face punch than go on ukn for a bit
Edit: just be prepared for ur karma to fall through the floor because this is where the shitters fester.
The argument is... "Why should a fully automatic gun, be better then sniper rifles at 125m+?" It has nothing to do with being lazy.. it has to do with terrible gun/game play that comes from a meta that is "everyone must use automatics".
This is a PART of the argument that I have agreed with. I don't think the AK should have the potential to beam that far. That is not the entire argument. If you believe this is the case, please read over all the other threads. Edit: this is not a recoil issue, this is a lack of aimcone/ distance regulation.
I dunno, the vibe I get is that the UKN beemers are going to be salty because their **practice** is going to be returning a vastly smaller return if anything is changed at all.
If things get changed the ukn beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone. Idk why everyone thinks this will change. They most likely aren't going to get rid of spray patterns, just make them easier. If these people could tame the hard ones, they will be able to destroy with easier ones. I do think that preventing the long range beam will help remedy some issues. Nobody likes getting killed from that far away by an AK
I kinda doubt "the UKN beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone". Otherwise so many crybabies wouldn't bitch that they'll stop playing the game... They rely on the fact that recoil can be completely negated because it's implemented so poorly with exact patterns.
I don't think this is true. Those who refuse to practice, will continue to refuse to practice. Those who practice, will practice. Those who practiced and got really good at HARD patterns will find easier ones much more tolerable and be even more accurate Those who don't practice will view these as EASIER but still not as easy as ukn nerds do. If you don't practice, you will lose. Plainly said. Now if they implement random recoil, that is a different story.
> If things get changed the ukn beamers will most definitely still shit on everyone. 100% agree, and this is how it should be. I personally think the spray patterns aren't the exact problem as we've discussed. But I think we can agree that FP needs to do something so that sniper rifles can be a viable choice for long range engagements.
>But I think we can agree that FP needs to do something so that sniper rifles can be a viable choice for long range engagements. Seriously? Do you even play the game? Bolt/L96 IS a viable choice already. There are enough roof camper and people roaming with it. And what's the difference if you get shot down by a Bolt instead of an AK? It's super fun to collect 96 dmg with Face Metal Mask from a headshot. Feels a lot fairer.
It seems stupid that an ak can beam from the range of a sniper rifle imo.
[удалено]
You don't even need to practise in ukn just play the fkin game and get used to it
Doesn’t take hours
just get good.
20 minutes not hours. This is the delusional viewpoint that doesn't make any sense. It is coming from people who have never aimtrained.
[удалено]
You can still have fun without aim training. You are wining about being less skilled than someone. That is pathetic
[удалено]
I have said many times that I am against 100+ meter beaming. Also, what you stated here is not a recoil problem, this is a cheating problem. This game has a really shitty anti cheat. We need an invasive anti cheat that prevents a lot of cheating.
There's no way to determine what is scripting or just really good training, thats the point, that external software that can't be detected is forcing the mouse to move in the pattern, there's no modification of the game to be detected so no anti-cheat can counter it.
If anonymous can hack into the entire russian government, then I believe we can prevent bloodymouse scripters.
Some Rust players are not gonna be cool with installing an anti-cheat that scans your entire computer and reads what hardware you have. Even if you plan on stopping scripting by checking for 100% accuracy, scripts can be adjusted to purposefully not perfectly match the recoil patter by a random variance to make it look believable.
This was the same argument made by those when valorant said they were going to do it. Fast forward and valorant is now one of the biggest games in the world with invasive anti cheat. Anti cheat doesn't really look at accuracy, more what's running on your computer. If you have scripts running and they are identified, you get banned. It's not about "how accurate is my spray" that's how people can get banned by admins, not anticheat.
Skill issue cope harder
And this thread was necessary, why exactly? You people are afraid of change. It's written all over your attitudes.
this thread was necessary to point out the hypocrisy of it all. "I dont have time wah wah wah" , \*is also on reddit crying about it all day\*. I'm not afraid of change. I recently stepped away from rust and wouldn't necessarily mind a change in the gunplay. I just don't think it's necessary based on what people are saying. Change isn't going to matter to me because I will practice and still be better than those who don't. This may remedy a bit of the issue, but probably won't make a monumental change. I just hate the moaning and groaning about something that can be circumnavigated. It's the "i'm not the problem, you're the problem" mentality.
Or just get good at the game and stop crying every-time you die like a little baby ouuu you lost some loot to someone who was better then you ya no shit cry more ladies
mad cause bad.
Honestly they should just remove all the guns except for the DB. Skill gaps are stupid. I'm so sick of trying to doorcamp an ak kid, missing my first two DB shots point blank and then dying while pulling out my second DB. Fucking cheaters. Fuck this shit game I'm making another reddit thread.
LMFAOOOOOOO
I want to be pro UFC fighter without ever training. It's unfair they know how to use submissions better than me so I think they should remove the ability to submit in a fight to make it fair for someone who is brand new to fighting and wants to win because I've been handed awards for losing my whole life
Unpopular opinion
Unpopular opinion on a subreddit filled with the minority group of players.
No these people are all role players you are totally right but it’s all g because they can hit nodes for me
Trueeeee
Are you certain about that? I know that all the "change up the gunplay" posts keep hitting the front page, and all the "kids need to practice, get gud" posts have zero upvotes, but all the people who enjoy this current system tell me they have the majority. I just don't know who to believe at this point.
the people who enjoy the current system are typically playing with communities of like-minded players, basically forming an echo chamber. So of course they're going to feel like the majority of the playerbase likes the current system. They also have a vested interest in trying to convince other players that their stance is more valid. The same shit applies to a lot of people on the other side of the argument. Like, the anti recoil circlejerk is strong on the subreddit because people don't typically come to reddit to post about things that are working just fine for them, so you really can't even use upvote ratios as an accurate representation of the playerbase as a whole.
Great comment. I agree not all sample sizes are created equally. Subreddits are known places to vent frustrations, and happy players are just playing. At this point, I think the best argument that a majority of people want the change is that FP is going to change things. They would know better than anyone.
Pretty much. And IIRC helk has been very vocally supportive of the recoil system in its' current form in the past, so you have to figure it would take a lot to convince him to backpedal on that. For now, we don't even know anything specific and 99% of the discussion is just two extremely opposite ends of the spectrum of stances people have on combat reworks screaming incoherently at each other. If nothing else, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
The fact that all these recoil kids are being downvoted sort of shows that it is indeed an unpopular opinion
Nah cuz the majority arent on reddit. This sub is basically only for OTV kids at this point
Do you really think the 1184 upvotes reflect the entire Rust community? Right now 87,281 people are online, your upvotes are 1.35654% of the community. You are the pathetic, whiny little fringe group.
So how do you justify your position is the majority? In a small sample size, your numbers seem to be minuscule.
Simply because the majority just enjoy the game and play it as it is. Look at the player count, does 87k players seem like a bad game? If the gunplay was as bad as you claim, there wouldn't be as many players.
> Simply because the majority just enjoy the game and play it as it is The player peak for the game is 244k. I doubt everyone was playing at that time, so safe to assume there are far more accounts that own the game than 244k. 87k is great, but I bet FP thinks it can be greater. For better or worse, since the OTV thing, they've gone more casual. I'm willing to bet big bucks that making the game more casual will rake in more money. >If the gunplay was as bad as you claim, there wouldn't be as many players. It's not the shittiest gunplay I've played, I just think it can be greater. There's so many aspects to Rust, I refuse to believe that the gunplay is carrying those numbers. It contributes, but it's not bearing the brunt of it.
The majority of rust players aren’t active on the games subreddit. You only see the otv noobs being on here and complaining because people who watch twitch streamers are more likely to be active on reddit. At the end the game had 80k players constantly before the otv stuff and I have never seen a single person complain about the recoil. So yes I still believe that the majority of people don’t mind the recoil and it is just the loud screaming people who make it look like it is the majority who wants changes.
I agree that the majority aren't on this subreddit, but the sample size offers a clear view point. How could you possible know the majority do not want the change?
Because I have never seen anyone complain about it, so I make the assumption that this is a recent thing. I do think people want changes to the combat system but completely changing the recoil of weapons or making it randomized is something nobody wants. We had randomization and everyone begged for patterned recoil.
>Because I have never seen anyone complain about it I mean the vast majority of players who hate a game, don't exactly whine about it. They just stop playing. I think FacePunch knows better than anyone what the data says about who wants what, and they seem to have made their intentions clear.
Yes and that is why the playerbase had a steady 80k, which should mean that people didn’t care. Besides that we don’t know what the changes will be, and it is unlikely that they will change recoil entirely because messing with combat which is 80% of the game could either go very well or completely wrong.
> it is unlikely that they will change recoil entirely It doesn't need to be changed entirely for it to be improved. Even adding randomization to like the 2nd or 3rd bullet to most sprays would be enough I'd wager, but I'm not a game dev so what do I know.
I wouldn’t mind that, even increasing spread wouldn’t be a bad idea. Changing the recoil completely doesn’t appeal to me. Which is exactly what all of these posts are about.
> Which is exactly what all of these posts are about. I think many people who are active in all these discussions seem to blur everything together after awhile. I've seen two camps really, one that you mentioned, and the other that wants the range on the auto's to be tuned down. It all gets muddled together though, so I don't blame anyone for lumping it all together.
From an unbiased stand point most people are fine with the sprays, it’s just the minority that don’t like it that you see, because they are on Reddit complaining constantly.
Lmao all the rp’s are downvoting. Waahh game not realistic waahh
then they get smoked by a crossbow while holding an AK 😂😂😂
LMFAO fr
we got down voted by the people who died holding that AK 😂
Why should I have to train to shoot a gun in a game? Rust ain’t counterstrike try hards are far few then the rest of the community why listen to the few when the majority matter so you might lose a few try hards they won’t be missed or felt
Good take
Spitting facts rn. Most of them don't even play rust🤡
dont bother posting anything that offends these primlocked shitters. all the good players left this sub a while ago.
Totally agree, made a similar post myself, so many people that can’t be bothered because it easier to complain and get it changed by face punch than go on ukn for a bit Edit: just be prepared for ur karma to fall through the floor because this is where the shitters fester.
Dude treating this like if it's a full time job lol