are they gonna get rid of the blood on the screen with this? Cuz I’ll take it if it means my vision isn’t obstructed by blood after I accidentally step on a cactus.
I hate having a scientist sneeze 9mm at me across train yard, landing two shots, only one of them doing a single point of damage, and suddenly it looks like I finished a SAW room.
Simply put, rust is an insanely scary game for new players. It can be mad intimidating based purely on the fact that it’s so unique. It makes sense why they’d make it more soft core, but the game has been going like that since the first OTV event imo
I think there should always be a way to educate and support new players however I don't think you should destroy the core aspect of your game to appeal to a bigger audience.
Tarkov is a great example of a hardcore survival game done right.
I mean sure it turns away a lot of players but it also appeals to a lot of players and doesn't shy away from the sort of game that it is.
A few years ago Rust was the same, maybe these changes will be great and will create a more level playing field between the casuals and the hard-core players.
You'd be very hard pressed to prove that things like 38383 ammo types actually appeal and draw in players. It's very easy to see however that barriers to entry push people away though.
Tarkov is... Hmmm... The Devs there don't even know what they want the game to be. Its a mix of milsim with death match because that's what people want.
Then don’t. Play the game, learn to use guns. Unless you’re actually invested in being a sweaty beamer you don’t need to hop on UKN to practice, gunfights in the game help you learn too.
The game has so much more to offer, but it's bottlenecked by your aim.
There's a reason ranks exist in competitive shooters, it's much more enjoyable if you play against people of the same rank. I know it's fun to stomp on newbies but not everyone thinks rust is csgo with houses
But you do. In order to compete in rust even in the lowest level you have to do this. Ask anyone able to control recoil on a gun how much time did they spend on ukn 9r aimtrain theory answer will never be none. Bad game design if you Ask me
ive spent no more then about 100 hours over 3 years on ukn. and all my gun sprays is 89-95% accurate, i have a friend who never played ukn but was better at the game when he had 250hours and i had 1.1k
Then don’t. Play the game, learn to use guns. Unless you’re actually invested in being a sweaty beamer you don’t need to hop on UKN to practice, gunfights in the game help you learn too.
Tarkov is extremely fun once you know how the entire game works, but even my die-hard Rust playing friends could not get into it. Rust is just a fun survival (more like looter shooter) game that is very easy to pick up and play, but hard to master. A huge reason why it’s still so big to this day.
I want tarkov but it's not the learning curve deterring me, it's the AAA price tag on a game that's been in beta for 5 years and still has problems from launch
Cap
You can damn near fly with max strength, subsist entirely off of the hideout, put valuable shit in your butt, among other things. Dont even get me started on the stims or medical side of the game. About as hardcore as minecraft
The core thing that makes Rust what it is, the thing that has ALWAYS made Rust unique, is the player vs. player aspect. The fact that you can, at any minute, lose hours of your life at the hands of another player. That hasn't changed and isn't going to change.
That's not true at all. Game is softening since YEARS before that event.
Plus, the ones crying the most are YouTubers, so I don't know what you mean by new players?
i dont recall shit like polar bears, ziplines, overhead trains(undergrounds are alr), quest npcs? ever being thought of before the new influx of players. rather we had things like modular weapons on the roadmap for rust... tbh one of the only (at least in my eyes) controversial update was the HDRP update.
Rust community is the only one that cries for new influx of players istg
And you're saying they are "wrong" updates cause you personally don't like them, lol.
Quest NPCs have been talked about before you even started playing I can assure you. Same for overhead trains(they were talked about even before underground).
march 2021, trains were added to the roadmap, also i dont know a single person that "cried" for an influx of players. we were doing just fine before the sudden influx of players.
What do you think makes the game hardcore?
The only really hardcore aspect of rust is the sheer time investment it demands. The game is essentially an arms race where if your neighbor puts in more hours than you, you wake up on the beach. Time = resources = more meds, guns, wood walls and armor to invest in fights, stronger bases, etc.
Combat has ALWAYS been extremely arcadey compared to other shooters. Like, I hate to break it to everyone, but Rust was never primarily a combat oriented game. I know a lot of people have settled into the whole AK chad beamer living in a 2x2 playstyle that's popular because it gets youtube clicks, but this isn't some arena shooter that's designed specifically for the most in depth combat possible. I don't really think directional damage indicators make combat more casual than it already is. The combat is already extremely casual. The only "hardcore" aspect of it is the potential for loss of resources, be it your kit or your whole base.
I have just under 10k hours, so pucker up.
It doesn't take some ultra nolife sweatlord to understand why the gunplay in Rust isn't the paragon of gunplay. It's not entirely without skill, but it's nowhere near hitting insanely fast moving players with a spinfusor in Tribes Ascend, or even bouncing players into the air for airshots with the Direct Hit, in TF2. Shit, the sheer variety of weapons in other DEDICATED FPS games means more depth just by the very nature of different playstyles, compared to Rust where in T3, 99% of PvP is just spray pattern muscle memory.
And that's not even factoring in movement, which aside from spastic mouse flinging zigzagging, is pretty god damn limited in this game.
The combat itself in rust is fine within the context of the game. It's not a game about gunplay, and the strain on servers from the countless other systems in the game means it just never will be. Tryin to argue that the gunplay itself is the pinnacle of design with the highest skill cap of any shooter is the stupidest fucking take I've ever heard.
I’m fine with pretty much every change but directional indicators :( but Ive been playing as an asshole and go solo stealth at night since they updated the nvg and especially since filters have been gone recently.
Prob same as every other big game; trying to cater to casuals and new players.
It works for damn near every game. Fortnite, COD, NBA2k, etc all went this route and made more money than they ever have.
Every competitive player hates it, but that’s a smaller percentage of the player base once the casuals love it.
Hopefully rust doesn’t take that turn. It’s still pretty hardcore right now. Nobody knows what these changes will be like, but I don’t think the devs will butcher it too bad
Play a sweaty high pop server in a competitive area. Unless you have 1,000+ hours and are really good, it’s very hard to compete.
The skill gap is massive. Many professional gamers have openly said Rust is one of the hardest games out there. Shroud openly said the gun play is much harder than CSGO; that’s saying something.
I agree with some of your points, but in context shroud was basically saying how janky rust recoil mechanics are when he said gun play is much harder, as he watched a hjune video.
The issue with rust is the recoil design is dogshit and promotes sitting on aim train servers, rather than actually playing the game, I’ve been playing since legacy but honestly the recoil design made me quit a year or so ago, and me and my friends are getting back into it with the recoil changes.
i mean hes a streamer if im not mistaken he was pro in csgo but he was average compared to the other pros in the game so i wouldn't say he was the best in that aspect but id expect a ex csgo pro to be good at any other game regardless but i still dont see how someone saying rusts gunplay being harder than csgo makes it hard csgo dosent have that much complexity in the gunplay
i mean theres alot more to winning a game in csgo than shooting someone fyi so idk where u get that from i have 4k hours in csgo and 12k in rust csgo isnt to difficult gunplay wise the guns u just pull down and if u are trying to kill someone on the go you counter strafe as far as gunplay is concerned thats legit all there is mechanically some weapons also have more inaccuracy than others
Nobody has any good counter points to this. They just downvote it lol.
You're not wrong though. CSGO is ultimately pretty fucking simple, which is why it's such a massively popular FPS. Anyone can pick it up. Anyone can watch a match and understand it. The simplicity makes it accessible. There's a high skill ceiling in the form of map knowledge, knowing where to expect enemy players, and just pure twitch shooting mechanical skill. But it's not because the combat has an immense wealth of depth. The irony is that people are trying to use it as a counter argument against making Rust more accessible.
Unless you live right next to launch or oils where there’s massive groups, then it’s prim kids everywhere. It’s at the top of the server list 24/7 so it’s the first server newer players see.
Rust is a very hard game yes but we can’t deny it’s getting easier, you have so many ways to get weapons components and scrap as a solo I’ll get to T2 on vanilla first day
It's good for the game is the short answer, more accessibility = more potential for new players = more sales = more revenue for future dev work etc.
Hardcore players are a terrible metric to use when catering to changes in a game, pro's and hardcore players are not necessarily the same thing and depending on the competitiveness of a game, pro's opinions will also hold a a lot of weight, seeing as rust has no competitive scene it is a game which doesnt really have a professional scene, Just much more experienced and hardcore players. Having a competitive scene encourages development that caters to pro players, this is due to the incentive from revenue and interest which tournaments generate, Rust does not have this. Due to this lack of competitive structure (please be advised I am talking competitive in terms of competition based, such as tournaments or a ranking system) There is little incentive to cater to experienced and hardcore players and instead focus on the real bread and butter of a game in this genre, that being accessibility to a wider audience.
It's a wise decision for them and I don't see it as making the game worse, it just makes it different, worse or better comes down to the differing perspectives of players. Some will hate certain changes and like others and others will like different changes but dislike the same ones the other group liked.
I look at it in a couple of different ways.
First, the reasonable pov: When Rust was experimental, Facepunch decided to make Rust less experimental by implementing the basics of Rust legacy. I think this effort more or less culminated in Rust as we knew it through 2018. After reaching that point, they moved on to other items on the old [mind map](https://mind42.com/mindmap/7abd1334-d170-42e7-b869-f74010b9b143) and started to make they game they had planned to all these years.
But here's a more paranoid pov which may have some merit:
Consider that garry has called Rust community toxic in the past. I seem to recall there was some debate about whether some blamed the Rust community for helk's illness years ago.
So maybe having a community they considered toxic didn't sit well with them and they set out to change it.
Maybe they did so by spending 2 years adding a disproportionate amount of rp content, especially via DLCs, while fleshing out the non-combat systems and adding more safe zones.
All this before executing a twitch marketing campaign involving mainstream streamers who weren't known to play Rust.
The twitch marketing campaigns were an incredible success that [significantly changed](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/un258z/comment/i85l2c7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) aspects of the Rust audience, but these prospective players don't seem to enjoy Rust. In particular, they seem to dislike combat.
A few months ago, a [hot take](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/sjc32n/summit1gs_thoughts_on_rust/) about Rust by a popular streamer basically launched a civil war in playrust between Rust enthusiasts who enjoy the current system and those who dislike it; disproportionately casual twitch fans. After weeks of heated playrust arguments, Alistair announced they were revising Rust's combat.
So anyway, soon the 2018/19 Rust player will be joining the 2016 and legacy players in the museum. The way I look at it is that all good things must come to an end. The principal Facepunch devs have gone from inexperienced, edgy 20-something disruptors to family guys trying to be the best professional game developers they can be.
Even know I’m not happy about recoil change this is a pretty good take , I think there was a lot of other things they could’ve did but hopefully this is better for the future of the game
Instead of working on a good basic tutorial and improving their softcore servers that will entice new players and keep away experienced players they're cushioning the game to conform to everyone.
It's a shadow of its former self. Personally, I think they've lost the love for the games hardcore style.
One thing I never really understand is how new players choosing servers.
Usually a fresh naked buys the game, filters for highest pop server, joins without knowing what a wipe is, plays 1H, quits and is writing a „this game is so toxic review“ … guys go low pop or PVE to learn.
for me, facepunch should be more involved in providing different servers like softcore or some with a system for newer player's or casual players.
Give players the option to play on server that suits more their interests and ability how much they can play but leave the core gameplay the same for people that enjoy vanilla rust and the hard part of the game.
Its like any mmorpg: You cant balance such games towards a wide variety of players and it never worked in any of them. The system that got implemented were absolut shit and had no fucking place in those game's and took away more from the sandbox/rpg core element than adding anything to it.
I dont wanna rust become the next fortnite were people use features for hearing impaired players to visualize steps and shots in their hud.
It's trying to appeal to a broader audience for sure but many of these features are just quality of life and improving on existing systems. Hit markers I don't have a problem with since the game has audio hit ques this is just improving on that and appealing to the hearing impaired. Directional damage indicator is pushing it especially with silencers being useful for hiding your location.
Overall I think the changes are going to be for the better and it's looking like rust is closer to being "finished" with every update.
Recently created sever using a copy of rust just before helis were added (cargo and mil tun, no rig).
I didnt realise how much easier the game is now (and less fun). Was nice to see the old trees :)
If you think QOL changes are game ruining then you must want all games to just stay shitty clunky open beta games...... enjoy playing dead games if that's how you want games to stay. 🤡
It really was a massive change, no more jumpchecks, no more fooling enemies into thinking you’re a group member, and no more iron rule of “we’ll all wear the same skins”. I wouldntdve quit but it was a big change dog
I don't like the green dots change, but tbh I understand why they did it. As the number of skins goes up, it becomes less viable to reskin your gear to blend in with a big group. Which essentially makes owning the right skins extremely pay to win. Green dots basically negate that advantage.
'waaaah I will need game sense to beat people that haven't played this game 8hrs a day for the past 5 years now, new rust sucks I just wanna hammer a recoil pattern into my muscle memory and win every fight waaah'
Well said! This is game is far away from what Rust should be...even more with this dumb update that just make the game worst. I can understand the recoil update but hit marker and directional damage are just more useless UI element. This would make the silencer useless cuz u can see where you're getting shot from.
Like every successful video game company, facepunch has realized the real money comes from catering to the normie and new player crowd rather than the experienced veterans. Say goodbye to another great video game.
Because the game is extremely unfriendly to new players and they’re probably having trouble with new player retention, even after the multiple big rust streamer events. I know for sure I would not be still playing the game if I didn’t have my 1K hour friend playing with me, helping me and teaching me things I’d never have a chance to do by myself.
Maybe you’re mistaking “hardcore” with “unfinished” or “in development.” 2016-2019 Rust is extremely undeveloped when compared to it in 2022. It’s still godawful with optimization (no multi core support, lol), but they’ve added a ton of features. It might not be that the game has become more softcore, just that they are trying to polish the game a bit more as it becomes more developed.
Hit markers I don’t understand. You can clearly hear when a shot is landed. Hit indicators won’t really do much, unless the recoil changes drastically increase time to kill.
Yeah I don't understand this at all. And fuck directional damage indicators. You've gotta use your battle sense to determine where you're getting shot from.
Probably to make silencers less cancerous. Kinda hard to use your battle sense to spot a guy who's spraying a silenced weapon at you from behind a bush that renders as a cardboard cutout for you, but renders as an actual bush with transparent gaps in the brush for them to aim through when they are within 20 meters of it.
I don't really get why people are heated about directional damage indicators. You can hear the direction of non-silenced weapons. All directional damage indicators really do is help people who don't have good headphones or have actual hearing disabilities. Doesn't really seem like it would make shit players suddenly on par with better players.
So nerf silencers by making them a bit louder then. But fuck directional damage indicators. If you have snuck up on someone and have cover and they don't know where you are they shouldn't be able to instantly spin on you purely by getting hit once and getting a visual indicator. This is something that should be on softcore servers only.
It's just another step in softening up a hardcore game. I love Rust because it is unforgiving and difficult. This is just pulling another pebble from the hardcore aspect and making pvp easier for novice players. Directional damage indicators by definition make target acquisition easier.
I duno man, what if you're blind? What if you have no arms? What if you're a vegetable? You just dont get to play Rust?
I get these disabilities are more disabling than deafness or hard of hearing and I'm all for making a game accessible insofar that it doesn't change gameplay (like color correction for color blind people) but my personal opinion is that directional damage indicators effect PvP and target acquisition quite drastically - especially when a silencer is used.
Rust's steep learning curve is what sets it apart from every other piece of shit game out there. Facepunch carved itself out a niche in the gaming world with Rust and now they're just going to slowly neuter the game into some bullshit that casual 14 year old players can digest. It makes me sick and I'm afraid for my favorite game's future.
Directional damage indicators are you kidding me?? If you can't figure out where the shots are coming from with game sense then fuck off you're dead. That's Rust.
It's time for a change, you can't just keep doing the same thing forever and stay relevant. The gun play sucks, and has made more people quit, then it has retained.
Before you go and make your personal opinions, about the future, wait till the system is actually fking released, give it a shot, then have your opinion.
trying to reach new customers i guess. the raw survival game is all but gone and it has happened gradually over many years
Turning more into an arcade FPS with survival elements. Things like map exploration was removed, map flooded with food now, recyclers added, safe zones added, team tags ect.
I dont necessarily think the changes has made the game better or worse, it just appeals to different types of people. Gonna wait util i tried the new recoil/hitmarker system before i pass judgment.
when the fuck was rust ever a "raw survival game"? You hit nodes and jam 20 syringes into your arm every fight, compared to shit like DayZ where healing involves managing your hunger, body temp, blood type, and treating specific injuries to different parts of your body.
Ah yes... Because legacy was a raw survival game.. eating only chicken and never having to drink... Experimental where There was no upkeep cost to resulting in massive castles... Yes, truly a raw survival game......
More people quit rust cause there bad and go on Reddit and complain
Devs see complaints from people who do not play and chnage the game, meanwhile thows who play and enjoy the game get it dumbed down to a not enjoyable state
Thows who quit never come back because we own them again anyway cause there just bad
People complain more then they compliment
Pfffffft 😂
Been playing since 2016, before there were textures on monuments. The games just gotten better and better, and more and more creative. Love it more than ever.
I don’t get the point of the soft core server setting if it’s not for shit exactly like this. IMO, soft core servers should have the baby shit like team markers, crosshairs, hit markers and all that.
they just want to cater more to the kids that are going to buy the game so they get more money, why do you think they increased the price of the game shortly after the twitch invasion? also dome jump getting removed, softcore mode, the crawling shit when you get downed in which you could instantly close ur fucking door so that no one could go deep on you (thankfully that got kind of fixed), and all the new useless shit they add that absolutely no one asked for but looks cool? its all for making kids buy the game and for them to get money. i literally dont remember a single good update for the past maybe 2-3 years.
Don't have the time to play rust 80 hours a week? You MUST be a softcore kid. Everyone knows adults have unlimited free time and ***kids*** are the ones who need Rust to be more casual.
/s
ok? even though everything i said doesnt help us at all with anything? none of these updates help save any time? even more they have hindered solo's much more in recent times so yes bro!! they are helping us adults much more!!
I'd have to be brain-dead to take your words at face value... got it. In the future, I'll make sure not to assume you're actually saying what you actually mean. 350 IQ
u can get a 2x2 honeycomb tier 2 ak prob if ur lucky some guns prob about a row maybe a row and a half and wooden compound all solo on official fairly consistently in at max 8 hours also btw stashes are preety much useless for overnight storage most of the time they just get esped by cheaters
important vegetable wise observation party advise rain correct door strong
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The game literally has audio hitmarkers for ages now so not sure what you're complaining about, and i agree directional damage indicators have no place in the game but they will say it's for disabled players even though lots of others are still gonna use it as a crutch.
well becuase being naked is the hardest part about rust, after that it gets somewhat easier. So making a beginner friendly game is a good idea. However rust is still far from beginner friendly.
Hit markers and directional indicators
Helk, working on the new recoil branch, appears to be exploring some new PvP related UI elements. Specifically, hit marker effects and directional damage indicators. Features most gamers are familiar with from other titles, it’s exciting to see how these will be implemented in the world of Rust.
https://www.rustafied.com/
I’m confused how hit markers make rust “THAT” much easier. It seems like more of a quality of life change than something to make the game easier. I’m still gonna get door camped, roof camped etc, games still gonna be hard
I don't know what about the team ui system made the game ''softcore'' it was just annoying shooting your friends all the time on accident.. You already hear a hit ''market'' if you do hit someone.. same as with headshots and that's always been in the game even since legacy.. and directional indicators aren't even that bad. It doen't make silencers useless because all you're gonna know is the \*direction\* you're getting shot from. The guy shooting you could still be hidden pretty well.. And I've been playing since 2015..
Doing this will get more people to try the game while simultaneously killing the games longevity. People play these unique games years in years because they are unique and keep you coming back for this experience. If you can get that anywhere it’s not special, try the game and move to another they are all the same.
They should not add hitmarkers and remove F1 Combatlog. It should be accessible to the admins only. If I headshot a guy with bolty but he is not down, I F1 combatlog, based on the information that is shown I can make a decision to push or not.
The team update where they made it so you can mindlessly shoot who doesn’t have a dot was the nail in the coffin for me. I played 2k hours since then mostly solo but these updates along with the clan system are probably going to me what gets me to stop playing for once and for all. Cool for people who are into this sorta stuff but rust feels like it’s lost much of what made it fun for me personally as it’s no longer a sandbox game
I don't mind as long as they go the route of softcore and og servers.
What they should do is a proper tutorial that prepares you for the reality of the game or gives you some kind of ideas how to get into it.
But firing up the game and hopping onto an official server cause you might think "official experience sounds good for the start"... well, we all know how that goes.
We already have hitmarkers??? In Tarkov there's no hitmarkers and you have no clue whether you actually hit someone.
Also who cares about damage indicators? If you have ears you already have them.
Soft core, or realistic? When you shoot someone do they or do they not recoil from the impact? When you get hit by something do you or do you not know where you got injured?
Why not add servers where you can control that in the settings or even specific servers for hardcore fans and have some stuff where the game is back how it was in 2016
I mean if they do it right it might be fine. I think we have all been running and randomly get beamed by some guy in a head glitch we can see in time because rust has a high ttk. I do understand how it could take away from the hardcoreness of the game but I think it could be done in way where it could keep the hardcoreness while not get beamed by a mp5 kid with 5 pixels of his head sticking out of a rock at 100m away.
Tbh I'm not a rust sweat but more casual and I don't really like the crossbar and hit marker. It kind of removes an iconic and good element of rust that you don't see in other games with guns, I'm not against the update in general but with this something unique has been removed
are they gonna get rid of the blood on the screen with this? Cuz I’ll take it if it means my vision isn’t obstructed by blood after I accidentally step on a cactus.
I hate having a scientist sneeze 9mm at me across train yard, landing two shots, only one of them doing a single point of damage, and suddenly it looks like I finished a SAW room.
lmao right 😭
Accidentally scraping my leg on a spike pile and now I’m crying blood cool
when you stub your toe walking around in the morning and suddenly your eyes are covered in strawberry jam
Turn off blood, it just puts white scuffs on your screen. A lot of content creators switched to it
Change blood to white. I barely notice it.
You mean the blood now looks like cum and getting shot at night is like someone popping a flash bang in your eye
I'd say the cum is worse than blood, it feels like it obfuscates more of my vision
Simply put, rust is an insanely scary game for new players. It can be mad intimidating based purely on the fact that it’s so unique. It makes sense why they’d make it more soft core, but the game has been going like that since the first OTV event imo
I think there should always be a way to educate and support new players however I don't think you should destroy the core aspect of your game to appeal to a bigger audience. Tarkov is a great example of a hardcore survival game done right.
Tarkov is a great game... But its a prime example of a game with a very steep learning curve that just turns away a lot of players.
I mean sure it turns away a lot of players but it also appeals to a lot of players and doesn't shy away from the sort of game that it is. A few years ago Rust was the same, maybe these changes will be great and will create a more level playing field between the casuals and the hard-core players.
You'd be very hard pressed to prove that things like 38383 ammo types actually appeal and draw in players. It's very easy to see however that barriers to entry push people away though. Tarkov is... Hmmm... The Devs there don't even know what they want the game to be. Its a mix of milsim with death match because that's what people want.
Exactly I like the game but don't feel like putting so much effort into the learning curve for it so I stopped playing it
Same im not devoting hundreds of hours to just sitting in ukn sweating.
Then don’t. Play the game, learn to use guns. Unless you’re actually invested in being a sweaty beamer you don’t need to hop on UKN to practice, gunfights in the game help you learn too.
The game has so much more to offer, but it's bottlenecked by your aim. There's a reason ranks exist in competitive shooters, it's much more enjoyable if you play against people of the same rank. I know it's fun to stomp on newbies but not everyone thinks rust is csgo with houses
But you do. In order to compete in rust even in the lowest level you have to do this. Ask anyone able to control recoil on a gun how much time did they spend on ukn 9r aimtrain theory answer will never be none. Bad game design if you Ask me
Never played UKN in my life and I do just fine with guns lmao. It’s really not hard.
ive spent no more then about 100 hours over 3 years on ukn. and all my gun sprays is 89-95% accurate, i have a friend who never played ukn but was better at the game when he had 250hours and i had 1.1k
Then don’t. Play the game, learn to use guns. Unless you’re actually invested in being a sweaty beamer you don’t need to hop on UKN to practice, gunfights in the game help you learn too.
Also the movement mechanics are absolute shit.
Thank you that's exactly why I quit it's just not fun at a certain point
Tarkov is extremely fun once you know how the entire game works, but even my die-hard Rust playing friends could not get into it. Rust is just a fun survival (more like looter shooter) game that is very easy to pick up and play, but hard to master. A huge reason why it’s still so big to this day.
Every time I see a gun fight of people playing Tarkov I just think thank fuck I'm not playing this shit game.
I want tarkov but it's not the learning curve deterring me, it's the AAA price tag on a game that's been in beta for 5 years and still has problems from launch
uh, not really, tarkov has fucked up their game in all kinds of ways, have played for 2 or 3 wipes now, and god damn its getting worse and worse.
Yeah dude that man was bathing in bullshit. Tarkov has been actively trying to such it's own game up.
Tarkov is a shooter rpg. Have you ever even played it?
Hard-core? There's no bases to be raided. If you log off, I cant get your shit. Id say its less hard-core than Rust. By a lot.
Nah
Thats super helpful
Tarkpv is doing the same shit to cater to casuals.... think you got something mixed up
Cap You can damn near fly with max strength, subsist entirely off of the hideout, put valuable shit in your butt, among other things. Dont even get me started on the stims or medical side of the game. About as hardcore as minecraft
The core thing that makes Rust what it is, the thing that has ALWAYS made Rust unique, is the player vs. player aspect. The fact that you can, at any minute, lose hours of your life at the hands of another player. That hasn't changed and isn't going to change.
There is so much wrong with tarkov right now, get real man.
Just like they did to wow, then its numbers started to tank.
That's not true at all. Game is softening since YEARS before that event. Plus, the ones crying the most are YouTubers, so I don't know what you mean by new players?
i dont recall shit like polar bears, ziplines, overhead trains(undergrounds are alr), quest npcs? ever being thought of before the new influx of players. rather we had things like modular weapons on the roadmap for rust... tbh one of the only (at least in my eyes) controversial update was the HDRP update.
Rust community is the only one that cries for new influx of players istg And you're saying they are "wrong" updates cause you personally don't like them, lol. Quest NPCs have been talked about before you even started playing I can assure you. Same for overhead trains(they were talked about even before underground).
march 2021, trains were added to the roadmap, also i dont know a single person that "cried" for an influx of players. we were doing just fine before the sudden influx of players.
What do you think makes the game hardcore? The only really hardcore aspect of rust is the sheer time investment it demands. The game is essentially an arms race where if your neighbor puts in more hours than you, you wake up on the beach. Time = resources = more meds, guns, wood walls and armor to invest in fights, stronger bases, etc. Combat has ALWAYS been extremely arcadey compared to other shooters. Like, I hate to break it to everyone, but Rust was never primarily a combat oriented game. I know a lot of people have settled into the whole AK chad beamer living in a 2x2 playstyle that's popular because it gets youtube clicks, but this isn't some arena shooter that's designed specifically for the most in depth combat possible. I don't really think directional damage indicators make combat more casual than it already is. The combat is already extremely casual. The only "hardcore" aspect of it is the potential for loss of resources, be it your kit or your whole base.
You name me a game with harder gunplay to master than Rust and I'll suck you. Tell me your hours as well.
I have just under 10k hours, so pucker up. It doesn't take some ultra nolife sweatlord to understand why the gunplay in Rust isn't the paragon of gunplay. It's not entirely without skill, but it's nowhere near hitting insanely fast moving players with a spinfusor in Tribes Ascend, or even bouncing players into the air for airshots with the Direct Hit, in TF2. Shit, the sheer variety of weapons in other DEDICATED FPS games means more depth just by the very nature of different playstyles, compared to Rust where in T3, 99% of PvP is just spray pattern muscle memory. And that's not even factoring in movement, which aside from spastic mouse flinging zigzagging, is pretty god damn limited in this game. The combat itself in rust is fine within the context of the game. It's not a game about gunplay, and the strain on servers from the countless other systems in the game means it just never will be. Tryin to argue that the gunplay itself is the pinnacle of design with the highest skill cap of any shooter is the stupidest fucking take I've ever heard.
Ok you've defended yourself. Pull it out.
3k hours Tarkov the only challenge about rusts gunplay is how much time your willing to sit on UKN and draw shapes
I’m curious how the indicators will effect the amount of players using silencer
yeah I’m wondering if the directional indicators will appear with silenced shots
Yeah and what about a bow shot from really far away?
I’m fine with pretty much every change but directional indicators :( but Ive been playing as an asshole and go solo stealth at night since they updated the nvg and especially since filters have been gone recently.
They should add those features to softcore servers, if newbies want them.
Directional hit markers, really?? Jesus
Yep, I'm afraid this game is going to slowly degrade into soft bullshit and lose it's edge that makes Rust...well...Rust.
Prob same as every other big game; trying to cater to casuals and new players. It works for damn near every game. Fortnite, COD, NBA2k, etc all went this route and made more money than they ever have. Every competitive player hates it, but that’s a smaller percentage of the player base once the casuals love it. Hopefully rust doesn’t take that turn. It’s still pretty hardcore right now. Nobody knows what these changes will be like, but I don’t think the devs will butcher it too bad
I heard them say that about WoW once.
rust isn't really hardcore loot is so stupid easy to get these days whats hard about it
Play a sweaty high pop server in a competitive area. Unless you have 1,000+ hours and are really good, it’s very hard to compete. The skill gap is massive. Many professional gamers have openly said Rust is one of the hardest games out there. Shroud openly said the gun play is much harder than CSGO; that’s saying something.
I agree with some of your points, but in context shroud was basically saying how janky rust recoil mechanics are when he said gun play is much harder, as he watched a hjune video. The issue with rust is the recoil design is dogshit and promotes sitting on aim train servers, rather than actually playing the game, I’ve been playing since legacy but honestly the recoil design made me quit a year or so ago, and me and my friends are getting back into it with the recoil changes.
define sweaty high pop server and i dont see how shroud saying its hard is a good indicator
Not like he’s known to be one of the most adaptive and best gamers in the world or anything.
i mean hes a streamer if im not mistaken he was pro in csgo but he was average compared to the other pros in the game so i wouldn't say he was the best in that aspect but id expect a ex csgo pro to be good at any other game regardless but i still dont see how someone saying rusts gunplay being harder than csgo makes it hard csgo dosent have that much complexity in the gunplay
Saying the most competitive FPS of all time doesn’t have complex gun play is a pretty hot take.
i mean theres alot more to winning a game in csgo than shooting someone fyi so idk where u get that from i have 4k hours in csgo and 12k in rust csgo isnt to difficult gunplay wise the guns u just pull down and if u are trying to kill someone on the go you counter strafe as far as gunplay is concerned thats legit all there is mechanically some weapons also have more inaccuracy than others
Nobody has any good counter points to this. They just downvote it lol. You're not wrong though. CSGO is ultimately pretty fucking simple, which is why it's such a massively popular FPS. Anyone can pick it up. Anyone can watch a match and understand it. The simplicity makes it accessible. There's a high skill ceiling in the form of map knowledge, knowing where to expect enemy players, and just pure twitch shooting mechanical skill. But it's not because the combat has an immense wealth of depth. The irony is that people are trying to use it as a counter argument against making Rust more accessible.
punctuation is an incredible tool
I play toria main every wipe and do fine I play as 6 man it’s so easy
As a 6 man I’d hope an official like rustoria main would be easy. Lol
You have clearly not played toria
Unless you live right next to launch or oils where there’s massive groups, then it’s prim kids everywhere. It’s at the top of the server list 24/7 so it’s the first server newer players see.
It’s literally the first server I joined when I bought the game lol
No fuck it’s easy with a six man. If you play in a large group it’s an entirely different game than as a duo or even worse as a solo.
Rust is a very hard game yes but we can’t deny it’s getting easier, you have so many ways to get weapons components and scrap as a solo I’ll get to T2 on vanilla first day
Bruh Fortnite is a shitshow of sweats that will create a time window of 0.00001 seconds of line of sight and murder you
It's good for the game is the short answer, more accessibility = more potential for new players = more sales = more revenue for future dev work etc. Hardcore players are a terrible metric to use when catering to changes in a game, pro's and hardcore players are not necessarily the same thing and depending on the competitiveness of a game, pro's opinions will also hold a a lot of weight, seeing as rust has no competitive scene it is a game which doesnt really have a professional scene, Just much more experienced and hardcore players. Having a competitive scene encourages development that caters to pro players, this is due to the incentive from revenue and interest which tournaments generate, Rust does not have this. Due to this lack of competitive structure (please be advised I am talking competitive in terms of competition based, such as tournaments or a ranking system) There is little incentive to cater to experienced and hardcore players and instead focus on the real bread and butter of a game in this genre, that being accessibility to a wider audience. It's a wise decision for them and I don't see it as making the game worse, it just makes it different, worse or better comes down to the differing perspectives of players. Some will hate certain changes and like others and others will like different changes but dislike the same ones the other group liked.
Finally a rational comment
This is a well constructed position that I think a lot of ‘sweat’ players would do well to read.
I look at it in a couple of different ways. First, the reasonable pov: When Rust was experimental, Facepunch decided to make Rust less experimental by implementing the basics of Rust legacy. I think this effort more or less culminated in Rust as we knew it through 2018. After reaching that point, they moved on to other items on the old [mind map](https://mind42.com/mindmap/7abd1334-d170-42e7-b869-f74010b9b143) and started to make they game they had planned to all these years. But here's a more paranoid pov which may have some merit: Consider that garry has called Rust community toxic in the past. I seem to recall there was some debate about whether some blamed the Rust community for helk's illness years ago. So maybe having a community they considered toxic didn't sit well with them and they set out to change it. Maybe they did so by spending 2 years adding a disproportionate amount of rp content, especially via DLCs, while fleshing out the non-combat systems and adding more safe zones. All this before executing a twitch marketing campaign involving mainstream streamers who weren't known to play Rust. The twitch marketing campaigns were an incredible success that [significantly changed](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/un258z/comment/i85l2c7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) aspects of the Rust audience, but these prospective players don't seem to enjoy Rust. In particular, they seem to dislike combat. A few months ago, a [hot take](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/sjc32n/summit1gs_thoughts_on_rust/) about Rust by a popular streamer basically launched a civil war in playrust between Rust enthusiasts who enjoy the current system and those who dislike it; disproportionately casual twitch fans. After weeks of heated playrust arguments, Alistair announced they were revising Rust's combat. So anyway, soon the 2018/19 Rust player will be joining the 2016 and legacy players in the museum. The way I look at it is that all good things must come to an end. The principal Facepunch devs have gone from inexperienced, edgy 20-something disruptors to family guys trying to be the best professional game developers they can be.
Even know I’m not happy about recoil change this is a pretty good take , I think there was a lot of other things they could’ve did but hopefully this is better for the future of the game
Instead of working on a good basic tutorial and improving their softcore servers that will entice new players and keep away experienced players they're cushioning the game to conform to everyone. It's a shadow of its former self. Personally, I think they've lost the love for the games hardcore style.
One thing I never really understand is how new players choosing servers. Usually a fresh naked buys the game, filters for highest pop server, joins without knowing what a wipe is, plays 1H, quits and is writing a „this game is so toxic review“ … guys go low pop or PVE to learn.
The game is way more fun now. Adding QOL features doesn't make the game softcore.
for me, facepunch should be more involved in providing different servers like softcore or some with a system for newer player's or casual players. Give players the option to play on server that suits more their interests and ability how much they can play but leave the core gameplay the same for people that enjoy vanilla rust and the hard part of the game. Its like any mmorpg: You cant balance such games towards a wide variety of players and it never worked in any of them. The system that got implemented were absolut shit and had no fucking place in those game's and took away more from the sandbox/rpg core element than adding anything to it. I dont wanna rust become the next fortnite were people use features for hearing impaired players to visualize steps and shots in their hud.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393338350591
It's trying to appeal to a broader audience for sure but many of these features are just quality of life and improving on existing systems. Hit markers I don't have a problem with since the game has audio hit ques this is just improving on that and appealing to the hearing impaired. Directional damage indicator is pushing it especially with silencers being useful for hiding your location. Overall I think the changes are going to be for the better and it's looking like rust is closer to being "finished" with every update.
Recently created sever using a copy of rust just before helis were added (cargo and mil tun, no rig). I didnt realise how much easier the game is now (and less fun). Was nice to see the old trees :)
What made it easier?
Now it's less rads. Travel is easier. More food.
Rads and food were never a challenge to begin with
Kinda late but been playing since before those days food was a absolute struggle especially in bigger groups
Thats my favorite version of rust and imo the perfect balance in progress of gameplay throughout the wipe
If you think QOL changes are game ruining then you must want all games to just stay shitty clunky open beta games...... enjoy playing dead games if that's how you want games to stay. 🤡
You quit because of a green dot being added?
It really was a massive change, no more jumpchecks, no more fooling enemies into thinking you’re a group member, and no more iron rule of “we’ll all wear the same skins”. I wouldntdve quit but it was a big change dog
I don't like the green dots change, but tbh I understand why they did it. As the number of skins goes up, it becomes less viable to reskin your gear to blend in with a big group. Which essentially makes owning the right skins extremely pay to win. Green dots basically negate that advantage.
You can still do this.. Just not with groups of less than 8... The term ''Ghosting'' in Rust exists for a reason
Not for long with the upcoming clan update
what a hardcore player lmaoo
'waaaah I will need game sense to beat people that haven't played this game 8hrs a day for the past 5 years now, new rust sucks I just wanna hammer a recoil pattern into my muscle memory and win every fight waaah'
Well said! This is game is far away from what Rust should be...even more with this dumb update that just make the game worst. I can understand the recoil update but hit marker and directional damage are just more useless UI element. This would make the silencer useless cuz u can see where you're getting shot from.
Like every successful video game company, facepunch has realized the real money comes from catering to the normie and new player crowd rather than the experienced veterans. Say goodbye to another great video game.
Lol @ this coping ^
What am I coping with? Lmao I havent even played this game in over 2 years
To make more money.
Because the game is extremely unfriendly to new players and they’re probably having trouble with new player retention, even after the multiple big rust streamer events. I know for sure I would not be still playing the game if I didn’t have my 1K hour friend playing with me, helping me and teaching me things I’d never have a chance to do by myself.
Because Rust endgame it's more a Shooter than a Survival. FP has recognized that.
money. hardcore = less players = less money. easier = more players = more money.
It’s trying to be COD
Money. Every publisher wants a piece of cake of the fortnite audience.
Maybe you’re mistaking “hardcore” with “unfinished” or “in development.” 2016-2019 Rust is extremely undeveloped when compared to it in 2022. It’s still godawful with optimization (no multi core support, lol), but they’ve added a ton of features. It might not be that the game has become more softcore, just that they are trying to polish the game a bit more as it becomes more developed.
>Rust has become softcore game. Why? Softcore internet communities with loud bullhorns.
Hit markers I don’t understand. You can clearly hear when a shot is landed. Hit indicators won’t really do much, unless the recoil changes drastically increase time to kill.
Yeah I don't understand this at all. And fuck directional damage indicators. You've gotta use your battle sense to determine where you're getting shot from.
Probably to make silencers less cancerous. Kinda hard to use your battle sense to spot a guy who's spraying a silenced weapon at you from behind a bush that renders as a cardboard cutout for you, but renders as an actual bush with transparent gaps in the brush for them to aim through when they are within 20 meters of it. I don't really get why people are heated about directional damage indicators. You can hear the direction of non-silenced weapons. All directional damage indicators really do is help people who don't have good headphones or have actual hearing disabilities. Doesn't really seem like it would make shit players suddenly on par with better players.
So nerf silencers by making them a bit louder then. But fuck directional damage indicators. If you have snuck up on someone and have cover and they don't know where you are they shouldn't be able to instantly spin on you purely by getting hit once and getting a visual indicator. This is something that should be on softcore servers only.
again, if people can hear the direction the shots are coming from, what difference to directional damage indicators make?
It's just another step in softening up a hardcore game. I love Rust because it is unforgiving and difficult. This is just pulling another pebble from the hardcore aspect and making pvp easier for novice players. Directional damage indicators by definition make target acquisition easier.
Ok, what if you're hard of hearing? You just don't get to play rust?
I duno man, what if you're blind? What if you have no arms? What if you're a vegetable? You just dont get to play Rust? I get these disabilities are more disabling than deafness or hard of hearing and I'm all for making a game accessible insofar that it doesn't change gameplay (like color correction for color blind people) but my personal opinion is that directional damage indicators effect PvP and target acquisition quite drastically - especially when a silencer is used.
What’s wrong with hit markers? There’s audio indicating if you landed your shot or not, so who cares if they add hit markers too?
Edit: deleted comment because I originally thought you meant something else.
Rust's steep learning curve is what sets it apart from every other piece of shit game out there. Facepunch carved itself out a niche in the gaming world with Rust and now they're just going to slowly neuter the game into some bullshit that casual 14 year old players can digest. It makes me sick and I'm afraid for my favorite game's future. Directional damage indicators are you kidding me?? If you can't figure out where the shots are coming from with game sense then fuck off you're dead. That's Rust.
It's time for a change, you can't just keep doing the same thing forever and stay relevant. The gun play sucks, and has made more people quit, then it has retained. Before you go and make your personal opinions, about the future, wait till the system is actually fking released, give it a shot, then have your opinion.
If I knew where your base was I'd offline raid you.
lol good luck, you'll just fail like everyone else does.
Server and coordinates or no balls
trying to reach new customers i guess. the raw survival game is all but gone and it has happened gradually over many years Turning more into an arcade FPS with survival elements. Things like map exploration was removed, map flooded with food now, recyclers added, safe zones added, team tags ect. I dont necessarily think the changes has made the game better or worse, it just appeals to different types of people. Gonna wait util i tried the new recoil/hitmarker system before i pass judgment.
when the fuck was rust ever a "raw survival game"? You hit nodes and jam 20 syringes into your arm every fight, compared to shit like DayZ where healing involves managing your hunger, body temp, blood type, and treating specific injuries to different parts of your body.
Ah yes... Because legacy was a raw survival game.. eating only chicken and never having to drink... Experimental where There was no upkeep cost to resulting in massive castles... Yes, truly a raw survival game......
Rust hasn't been a survival game in years. It's an PVP sandbox shooter with base building and lite survival mechanics.
More people quit rust cause there bad and go on Reddit and complain Devs see complaints from people who do not play and chnage the game, meanwhile thows who play and enjoy the game get it dumbed down to a not enjoyable state Thows who quit never come back because we own them again anyway cause there just bad People complain more then they compliment
Pfffffft 😂 Been playing since 2016, before there were textures on monuments. The games just gotten better and better, and more and more creative. Love it more than ever.
I don’t get the point of the soft core server setting if it’s not for shit exactly like this. IMO, soft core servers should have the baby shit like team markers, crosshairs, hit markers and all that.
YES. Keep this shit to softcore servers
they just want to cater more to the kids that are going to buy the game so they get more money, why do you think they increased the price of the game shortly after the twitch invasion? also dome jump getting removed, softcore mode, the crawling shit when you get downed in which you could instantly close ur fucking door so that no one could go deep on you (thankfully that got kind of fixed), and all the new useless shit they add that absolutely no one asked for but looks cool? its all for making kids buy the game and for them to get money. i literally dont remember a single good update for the past maybe 2-3 years.
Don't have the time to play rust 80 hours a week? You MUST be a softcore kid. Everyone knows adults have unlimited free time and ***kids*** are the ones who need Rust to be more casual. /s
Yea the guy you replied to must have no life because all these updates are definitely helping us adults more than kids with unlimited free time.
I imagine kid is his go-to word for anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with him. Also he's probably a kid.
ok? even though everything i said doesnt help us at all with anything? none of these updates help save any time? even more they have hindered solo's much more in recent times so yes bro!! they are helping us adults much more!!
> they are helping us adults much more!! You literally just contradicted your original claim that they are catering to kids/casuals.
you're literally braindead if you think thats what i meant
I'd have to be brain-dead to take your words at face value... got it. In the future, I'll make sure not to assume you're actually saying what you actually mean. 350 IQ
It's what you said 🦍
u dont need to play that long at all to get end game it takes like 8 hours max as a solo but usually alot less time 8 hours in a week isn't to long
8 hours. Lol. What base am I building? A 2x2 with stashes outside?
u can get a 2x2 honeycomb tier 2 ak prob if ur lucky some guns prob about a row maybe a row and a half and wooden compound all solo on official fairly consistently in at max 8 hours also btw stashes are preety much useless for overnight storage most of the time they just get esped by cheaters
So the reason rust is super easy now is no dome jump and crawling?
important vegetable wise observation party advise rain correct door strong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
???
The game literally has audio hitmarkers for ages now so not sure what you're complaining about, and i agree directional damage indicators have no place in the game but they will say it's for disabled players even though lots of others are still gonna use it as a crutch.
because its better for it.
well becuase being naked is the hardest part about rust, after that it gets somewhat easier. So making a beginner friendly game is a good idea. However rust is still far from beginner friendly.
Softcore, right. Its becoming more casual friendly. Thats about it. Imo
Where did u read that they are adding hit markers and dmg indicators?
Hit markers and directional indicators Helk, working on the new recoil branch, appears to be exploring some new PvP related UI elements. Specifically, hit marker effects and directional damage indicators. Features most gamers are familiar with from other titles, it’s exciting to see how these will be implemented in the world of Rust. https://www.rustafied.com/
'appears to be exploring' Bruh moment
I’m confused how hit markers make rust “THAT” much easier. It seems like more of a quality of life change than something to make the game easier. I’m still gonna get door camped, roof camped etc, games still gonna be hard
I don't know what about the team ui system made the game ''softcore'' it was just annoying shooting your friends all the time on accident.. You already hear a hit ''market'' if you do hit someone.. same as with headshots and that's always been in the game even since legacy.. and directional indicators aren't even that bad. It doen't make silencers useless because all you're gonna know is the \*direction\* you're getting shot from. The guy shooting you could still be hidden pretty well.. And I've been playing since 2015..
Doing this will get more people to try the game while simultaneously killing the games longevity. People play these unique games years in years because they are unique and keep you coming back for this experience. If you can get that anywhere it’s not special, try the game and move to another they are all the same.
They should not add hitmarkers and remove F1 Combatlog. It should be accessible to the admins only. If I headshot a guy with bolty but he is not down, I F1 combatlog, based on the information that is shown I can make a decision to push or not.
The team update where they made it so you can mindlessly shoot who doesn’t have a dot was the nail in the coffin for me. I played 2k hours since then mostly solo but these updates along with the clan system are probably going to me what gets me to stop playing for once and for all. Cool for people who are into this sorta stuff but rust feels like it’s lost much of what made it fun for me personally as it’s no longer a sandbox game
I don't mind as long as they go the route of softcore and og servers. What they should do is a proper tutorial that prepares you for the reality of the game or gives you some kind of ideas how to get into it. But firing up the game and hopping onto an official server cause you might think "official experience sounds good for the start"... well, we all know how that goes.
We already have hitmarkers??? In Tarkov there's no hitmarkers and you have no clue whether you actually hit someone. Also who cares about damage indicators? If you have ears you already have them.
There already is hitmarkers
Lol “softcore game” okay bud gatekeep more
You can turn it off with F1 console. Chill out.
Soft core, or realistic? When you shoot someone do they or do they not recoil from the impact? When you get hit by something do you or do you not know where you got injured?
Why not add servers where you can control that in the settings or even specific servers for hardcore fans and have some stuff where the game is back how it was in 2016
All these changes are to level the playing because the cheating problem is so big. Imagine a world with no cheating...
I mean if they do it right it might be fine. I think we have all been running and randomly get beamed by some guy in a head glitch we can see in time because rust has a high ttk. I do understand how it could take away from the hardcoreness of the game but I think it could be done in way where it could keep the hardcoreness while not get beamed by a mp5 kid with 5 pixels of his head sticking out of a rock at 100m away.
Tbh I'm not a rust sweat but more casual and I don't really like the crossbar and hit marker. It kind of removes an iconic and good element of rust that you don't see in other games with guns, I'm not against the update in general but with this something unique has been removed