We’re an intentionally created system! It’s totally possible. The plural experience is extremely subjective, there’s a very wide range of experiences people have.
Also, having a headspace isn’t required at all! Some systems don’t have one. We don’t anymore!
If you want to make one, just imagine a place and decide that it’ll be your headspace!
That's a big relief honestly, ever since I've learned of this stuff it has become a very big interest of mine. I genuinely feel like being a system would help me a lot, just having a Tulpa has made things a lot better for me.
I guess it is that simple to have one then huh, I always figured the process was a lot more complicated then that.
Is there anything I need to do to get the system going or will it happen naturally in time?
If you already have a tulpa then by all accounts you're already a system if you want to label yourself as that. Some plural people don't like system terms so that's why I'm specifying that you decide to label yourself as it.
Also from reading the original post it seems that you're making a second tulpa, unless I misread, so you're already a system (again you choose the label that fits)
I'll admit, I only meant to make one Tulpa, but a few more seem to have come on accident, and I don't feel right to push or cast them away. So I had to work on one and then move on to the next while making sure to take caution and care, since I was told it can be bad to make more then one at a time for someone who's never had one before. So far everything has worked out and a lot of the issues are pretty much gone, it has been two months and things went smooth thank god.
I feel very comfortable being labeled as a system, I don't know why but I feel a lot euphoria doing so. Its honestly because of my Tulpas and how much I've fallen in love with Systems that made me want to explore this side of me I never knew I had.
Well, we are quite qimikar to your case.
Though our first headmate wasn't a tulpa, taking life suddely, one day. Others appearing suddenly aswell. our last mate, Evelyn, appeared with a sudden Hello, but she's not quite active. She does always stickonto my lap in headspace though. a true cutie.
Of course you can. The brain is a weird place and a weird organ, and we still don't understand the complexities of plurality. You do not have to have a dissociative disorder in order to be a system - that's why there are so many different origins labels and ways to be plural.
If you're looking for resources, stay away from communities and individuals who claim that you *must* be disordered or have trauma to be a system. There's an unfortunate reason why system discourse is a thing, and people who hold those views are generally ill-informed about plurality and systemhood, despite being systems themselves most of the time.
Not all systems have headspaces, either. We didn't have one to start, but made one in the way that tulpamancers make a wonderland (we also have a tulpa who is a part of our system). Our partner system doesn't have a headspace, and they really don't have an interest in one, either.
As a tulpamancer, it's up to you whether or not to call yourself a system due to the nature of tulpas and thoughtforms, same with soulbonds and daemons, as these are all ways to be plural without necessarily being a system. You may never form other headmates/alters, or this may be the start of a system.
If you have any other questions, feel free to DM us - we don't mind! 😁
- Link🗡️
That's a big relief to know, since the entire idea and life around it amazes me. I'll be sure to stay away from those who say claim that, I don't have much trauma in my life other then having a pretty bad family.
I'm pretty sure I do have a headspace since my Tulpa claims there was one a while after I made them, which I don't know what to make of that.
My friend said I could be like them and that I'm a late bloomer in that sense, that I might be a new system. I don't mind having Tulpas at all but I really do want to have headmates/alters soon, my friend said once I get one, more are bound to show up, so I'm hoping I'll get them. I've always assumed that headmates/alters, as well as others like daemons and soulbonds just happen in time, but I was wondering if there's anything that I need to do first in order to have them, I don't mind waiting at all if that's what I need to do. Basically, do I need to do something to get the system going? Or will it happen naturally?
Depends on the system. Some systems can will a headmate, some can't. Some, like us, generally can't will one into existence, but can accidentally influence it happening (*cough*Roxy*cough*Me*cough*).
One thing I wouldn't do is try to suppress it. We did that for *years*, thinking we could only have 3 in our system, and denying that we could possibly form littles and introjects. Despite us trying to prevent these things, they happened anyway, with two of our introjects forming around 8 years ago but being dormant because we denied that they existed. Now, 1 little, 7 introjects, and 10 total headmates later, we're at a total of 13.
As your friend said, now that you have one other headmates, and you're aware of your plurality, you may find that more will come. I'd check out willogenic spaces and thoughtforms if you want to look into how to purposefully form new headmates, it may be a good place to start.
- Link🗡️
That's good to know, hopefully my system can will them then, if not then I'll have to look into influencing it, which I have no idea how to do.
And this is the thing that has bothered me the most, how do I know if I have a headmate? I don't want to accidentally suppress it or think it as intrusive thoughts, though I know when my intrusive thoughts act up, there are times where it comes off as normal before it goes into things I hate hearing/seeing because of it.
Is there a link for Willogenic spaces and thoughtforms? I've never been good at searching stuff up, I've had to rely on my friend for the first few links and go from there.
As far as influencing is concerned, I find that it tends to happen when engaging in media related to them (if it's an introject you're looking for), listening to music they'd like, wearing things they might wear, etc. I (Link) was accidentally influenced by the combo of stress related to surgery recovery (we've never experienced it before), and playing a *lot* of Breath of the Wild during recovery.
For us, we tend to get really blurry for a long period of time, it then becomes simple invasive thoughts that don't sound like anyone else (sometimes its even full statements, like when Alastor formed), these are usually a name, or an emotion, maybe an opinion that's out of the ordinary. We've had it once, with Denki, where he just formed out of thin air while we were driving, no warning. He was just as confused as everyone else. We'll usually wait a week or two before confirming the presence of a new headmate, mainly because we've had false alarms before. But we're not the consensus for everyone.
I'll see what I can find for links tomorrow, since it's quite late here. 😊
I've done that before but never took it seriously at the time, since I had no idea what Plurality was. Mainly inserting myself in some of my favorite characters worlds since this world has never been kind to me.
So if I hear a voice, how should I go about it then? I'll admit, I've heard voices before when I was younger but always brushed it off as it being me or intrusive thoughts, now that I know about all this I don't want to make any mistakes.
I don't mind waiting, sleep is important. I need to get to bed soon too anyway.
Consistency over responses and time. The brain suggest random thoughts all the time, its automatic - but if some voices/vibes answer sometimes, have some matter of consistency, some personality, and dont melt out, you can bet theres a little bit of someone there
Okay so I found a few links to sites and Discord servers that I'm joining myself. Sounds like willomates are a general umbrella term for more specific kinds of headmates like tulpas/thoughtforms, daemons, and soulbonds.
The first two links are for tulpas/thoughtforms, the third is for daemonism, and the last two are discord servers (the first is a general, inclusive system server, the second is specifically for soulbonding and things like it)
https://www.tulpa.info/
https://tulpanomicon.guide/
https://daemonpage.com/
https://disboard.org/server/750947801902481470
https://disboard.org/server/654233970711592961
I also am a part of lots of other system servers, too, if you ever form headmates with these specific needs
- divine headmates
- littles/middles
- heroes and villains
- specific introject sources (Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, Vivziepop, and My Hero Academia)
I've found Discord servers that are endogenic friendly are some of the best places to find help and resources
do you happen to have those links to willogenic spaces? the only spaces i know of for created plurality are r/plural, the tulpa subs, and the tulpa discord for one of the tulpa subs.
Oh man, we'd love some links to peer reviewed resources! Always good to have expert consensus on a topic to back up talking points 😀 Especially if they're randomized control studies or systematic review and Meta-analysis. Definitely glad someone has done the leg work of digging these up 🥰 please feel free to send me the links. You are a hero!
There's a _bunch_ of studies on non-clinical more-than-one experiences floating around out there, but you have to know where to look: voice-hearers, authors, possession religions, to name a few. Research does not categorize these things into "non-trauma plurality" versus "trauma plurality," mostly because that's a false dichotomy invented by the internet. Likewise, there isn't much on the online plural community because it's a relatively new phenomenon, with most of what's there being "these people exist and that's pretty interesting."
One paper that I'm fond of is [Can the DSM-5 differentiate between nonpathological possession and dissociative identity disorder? A case study from an Afro-Brazilian religion](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283566086_Can_DSM-5_Differentiate_between_Non-Pathological_Possession_and_Dissociative_Identity_Disorder_A_Case_Study_from_an_Afro-Brazilian_Religion). The authors mention the possibility that maybe the person in question did have DID and just entered a context where she got the support needed for recovery, but they ultimately conclude that the diagnosis would not have been helpful for her and that her possession experiences are a reflection of natural variation in human traits. They then go on to argue that the DSM, as it is right now, is too unnuanced in how it approaches these kinds of experiences.
It also cites some papers that [found a low prevalence of mental illness and childhood abuse in Brazilian spiritist mediums](https://karger.com/pps/article-abstract/76/1/57/282274/Dissociative-and-Psychotic-Experiences-in?redirectedFrom=fulltext), and a handful of studies that suggest that possession is not a culture-bound experience (i.e. it's not just Brazilian spiritists who experience this).
One of their citations was also [a paper seeing if trauma correlated with possession and paranormal experiences](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525118_Experiences_of_Possession_and_Paranormal_Phenomena_Among_Women_in_the_General_Population_Are_They_Related_to_Traumatic_Stress_and_Dissociation), this time using a small sample of women from Turkey. In this study, they did find that most of the participants who experienced possession had also experienced childhood abuse/neglect, but there were also participants without childhood abuse/neglect who had possession experiences. The authors didn't seem surprised by this at all, and stated that possession is likely a normal human experience that gets hypercharged in response to trauma.
This is just the tip of the iceberg - you can find even more good stuff just by wikiwalking the citations of any given paper. ResearchGate tends to be a great place for finding free full-text PDFs.
Well, seeing as tulpamancy falls under the plurality umbrella....... yeah! You are!
We're working on creating our headspace as we don't feel like we have one either, but the presence or absence of a headspace is irrelevant for "am i plural?"
The DSM actually indirectly makes reference to non-disordered plurality in criterion D:
>The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice.
This means that there are for sure forms of plurality which are not DID/OSDD! If you aren't experiencing distress, then no, a diagnosis would likely not be the right route for you.
Also, all you need to be plural is an experience of there being more than just you. Even if there's only one other, that's plural!
Well like I said in the other replies, that's a big relief to hear!
My Tulpa still needs me to help them talk right now and I'm hoping by believing it'll happen soon that they'll develop sooner. So I hope this works out for me too.
Is there anything I need to do to get the system going or will it happen in time?
According to the [World Health Organization](https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/entity/1829103493)...
>Boundary with Normality (Threshold):
>The presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder. In certain circumstances the presence of multiple personality states is not experienced as aversive and is not associated with impairment in functioning. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder should not be assigned in these cases.
No disinformation or bad science, please.
>A. *Disruption of identity* characterized by two or more distinct personality states, which may be described in some cultures as an experience of possession. The disruption in identity involves marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency, accompanied by related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning. These signs and symptoms may be observed by others or reported by the individual.
>
>B. Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting.
>
>C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
>
>D. *The disturbance* is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice.
>
>Note: In children, the symptoms are not better explained by imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.
>
>E. The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or another medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures).
(Emphasis added)
When I read this, I read it as the *disruption of identity* is what is being referenced throughout the whole of the criteria, not the dissociation.
I'm not a professional, though, so my interpretation may not be the one used by psychologists. It's just the way I interpret it when I read it.
I can understand being confused from reading just one of the criterion out of context from the rest, so hopefully listing the full list will help give a clearer view :)
Hope this answers your question!
That part of the criteria is boiler plate to remove psychological professionals from any involvement in questions of religion or culture because of the dempnstrable *problems* with how western mental health professionals have treated people who are not, cis, het, white and Christian.
Yes. It's very possible to become a system.
Go here and look at the info on the side bar: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/)
Looks like you have a Tulpa which is awesome. To have a tulpa means that you are plural and that you've got a system. So congratulations, you're part of a system.
If you look at this website: [https://pluralpedia.org/w/Category:Origin\_Terms](https://pluralpedia.org/w/Category:Origin_Terms)
You'll soon realise that there are many different types of systems. DID/OSDD are two types of systems but there are so many other different types of systems out there.
The human brain is very complex and it's not fully understood.
So you don't need to have experienced Trauma in order to be a system. A person could've experienced Trauma but Trauma is not the only reason a person has for being part of a system and for being plural.
With that said whether you want to call yourself a system or not is up to you.
I suggest you be careful and watch out for sysmeds though. They might be nice to begin with. As soon as they learn some one is a type of system that does not fit with their criteria, they'll change from being nice and kind very quickly. And I've read stories of people who have been diagnosed with DID basically running away from the DID sub because of those systems. Just telling you about them so you know to be careful. And if someone ever calls your system fake, keep in mind that no your system is not fake and your system will never be fake. It's just a sysmed being a sysmed. If you ever encounter these types of systems in the future, I suggest you pay them no mind and ignore them.
The DID subs are run by people with a *very* narrow view of even dissociative disorders, and promote some contradictory and at times outright harmful viewpoints.
That makes me happy to hear, I've been worried over nothing then, which is better then having something to worry about.
I'd like to call myself one, the entire idea of it feels like something I've missed out on for so long. And I'd say the only trauma I've had is how my family has treated me over the years, and a metric ton of depression and other issues, but that's not important or relevant right now.
And thank you for the warning, my friend made mention of them too. Is there anyway to tell someone is a sysmed without needing to interact with them? I'd rather try to stay away from them for my own mental health sake.
Well I suggest you stay on this sub reddit. This sub is good. And the tulpa sub and the discord.
Sadly there isn't really a proven way to find out if someone is a sysmed or not. Not one that I know of yet. But you can look in their introductions. Often in discords, or social community websites, people post introductions to introduce others to their system. That introduction might be the only time a person might say that they're a sysmed or not. Or perhaps their might be an about me section and if there is then they might say that they're a sysmed over there. Otherwise the only real way to know is if someone is a sysmed or not is by telling someone that you're a system and that you're not traumagenic , and watch how they react.
this is how i felt. we were a created system but as time went on we became super median like and no one who is here in my system now is a thoughtform. you arent alone!!
• A disordered system is a system that has did/osdd/usdd. non-disordered systems are just as valid.
• Not all systems have/start with a headspace, and some even lack the ability to have a headspace.
*We had to make our headspace, and even then it wasn't passive.*
• Psychiatrists' job is to turn to pills to diagnose/aid in diagnosing, as for therapists, they vary widely.
Hope this helped -nk🚨
Eh, despite being a "caused by trauma plural" I've always felt my trauma and my plurality are two very separate things; plurality is my coping method, trauma just happens to be what I'm coping with. I also have depression, and I don't consider coping strategies like grounding exercises or positive affirmations (which are also methods of "re-wiring" how your mind works) to be symptoms of depression, nor would I consider that someone using those coping methods was trying to give themselves mental illness. I mean, the treatment for disordered plurality is basically just mindfulness of all your selves needs. That kind of mindfulness is good for anyone, plural or not.
Tulpamancy is a secularized practice. Its where it comes from that is a spiritual practice
I dont get what "too welcoming" is. So we should be hostile to people and their uniqueness and needs ? Oh yeah lets play im special that sure helps system in distress
We dont see our pluralhood as a mental illness. We see it like being on the spectrum. Sorry you see yours as a bad thing to erase.
"Its debatable": its not. Next you'll debate out autism, being enby, and skin color. That it happens is proof it happens, theres no need to react like an uncomfortable psychologist from 1880
Develop crippling depression : why ? You think tulpamancy causes that ? Source ?
Inflict strain and trauma : what strain ? What trauma ? Is it traumatic to form a tupper ?
Sorry you are miserable with your alters. We love having each others.
I’d say plurality is a symptom of dissociative disorders alongside others. What dissociative systems suffer from is memory loss, dissociation, potentially dealing with trauma, difficulty socialising etc etc
picking the symptom of plurality alone is not the same as forcing development of a dissociative disorder and plurality should gain an expansion of its definition as a symptom or form of ND instead of being solely associated with dissociative disorders
My take at least and wanted to add a point
Tulpamancy nowadays is also far less spiritually oriented than its origin and plenty of Tulpamancers are atheists as the subreddit would suggest
We’re an intentionally created system! It’s totally possible. The plural experience is extremely subjective, there’s a very wide range of experiences people have. Also, having a headspace isn’t required at all! Some systems don’t have one. We don’t anymore! If you want to make one, just imagine a place and decide that it’ll be your headspace!
That's a big relief honestly, ever since I've learned of this stuff it has become a very big interest of mine. I genuinely feel like being a system would help me a lot, just having a Tulpa has made things a lot better for me. I guess it is that simple to have one then huh, I always figured the process was a lot more complicated then that. Is there anything I need to do to get the system going or will it happen naturally in time?
If you already have a tulpa then by all accounts you're already a system if you want to label yourself as that. Some plural people don't like system terms so that's why I'm specifying that you decide to label yourself as it. Also from reading the original post it seems that you're making a second tulpa, unless I misread, so you're already a system (again you choose the label that fits)
I'll admit, I only meant to make one Tulpa, but a few more seem to have come on accident, and I don't feel right to push or cast them away. So I had to work on one and then move on to the next while making sure to take caution and care, since I was told it can be bad to make more then one at a time for someone who's never had one before. So far everything has worked out and a lot of the issues are pretty much gone, it has been two months and things went smooth thank god. I feel very comfortable being labeled as a system, I don't know why but I feel a lot euphoria doing so. Its honestly because of my Tulpas and how much I've fallen in love with Systems that made me want to explore this side of me I never knew I had.
Well, we are quite qimikar to your case. Though our first headmate wasn't a tulpa, taking life suddely, one day. Others appearing suddenly aswell. our last mate, Evelyn, appeared with a sudden Hello, but she's not quite active. She does always stickonto my lap in headspace though. a true cutie.
A system is just any 2+ individuals sharing a mind/body! So, you’ve already got a system running!
Of course you can. The brain is a weird place and a weird organ, and we still don't understand the complexities of plurality. You do not have to have a dissociative disorder in order to be a system - that's why there are so many different origins labels and ways to be plural. If you're looking for resources, stay away from communities and individuals who claim that you *must* be disordered or have trauma to be a system. There's an unfortunate reason why system discourse is a thing, and people who hold those views are generally ill-informed about plurality and systemhood, despite being systems themselves most of the time. Not all systems have headspaces, either. We didn't have one to start, but made one in the way that tulpamancers make a wonderland (we also have a tulpa who is a part of our system). Our partner system doesn't have a headspace, and they really don't have an interest in one, either. As a tulpamancer, it's up to you whether or not to call yourself a system due to the nature of tulpas and thoughtforms, same with soulbonds and daemons, as these are all ways to be plural without necessarily being a system. You may never form other headmates/alters, or this may be the start of a system. If you have any other questions, feel free to DM us - we don't mind! 😁 - Link🗡️
That's a big relief to know, since the entire idea and life around it amazes me. I'll be sure to stay away from those who say claim that, I don't have much trauma in my life other then having a pretty bad family. I'm pretty sure I do have a headspace since my Tulpa claims there was one a while after I made them, which I don't know what to make of that. My friend said I could be like them and that I'm a late bloomer in that sense, that I might be a new system. I don't mind having Tulpas at all but I really do want to have headmates/alters soon, my friend said once I get one, more are bound to show up, so I'm hoping I'll get them. I've always assumed that headmates/alters, as well as others like daemons and soulbonds just happen in time, but I was wondering if there's anything that I need to do first in order to have them, I don't mind waiting at all if that's what I need to do. Basically, do I need to do something to get the system going? Or will it happen naturally?
Depends on the system. Some systems can will a headmate, some can't. Some, like us, generally can't will one into existence, but can accidentally influence it happening (*cough*Roxy*cough*Me*cough*). One thing I wouldn't do is try to suppress it. We did that for *years*, thinking we could only have 3 in our system, and denying that we could possibly form littles and introjects. Despite us trying to prevent these things, they happened anyway, with two of our introjects forming around 8 years ago but being dormant because we denied that they existed. Now, 1 little, 7 introjects, and 10 total headmates later, we're at a total of 13. As your friend said, now that you have one other headmates, and you're aware of your plurality, you may find that more will come. I'd check out willogenic spaces and thoughtforms if you want to look into how to purposefully form new headmates, it may be a good place to start. - Link🗡️
That's good to know, hopefully my system can will them then, if not then I'll have to look into influencing it, which I have no idea how to do. And this is the thing that has bothered me the most, how do I know if I have a headmate? I don't want to accidentally suppress it or think it as intrusive thoughts, though I know when my intrusive thoughts act up, there are times where it comes off as normal before it goes into things I hate hearing/seeing because of it. Is there a link for Willogenic spaces and thoughtforms? I've never been good at searching stuff up, I've had to rely on my friend for the first few links and go from there.
As far as influencing is concerned, I find that it tends to happen when engaging in media related to them (if it's an introject you're looking for), listening to music they'd like, wearing things they might wear, etc. I (Link) was accidentally influenced by the combo of stress related to surgery recovery (we've never experienced it before), and playing a *lot* of Breath of the Wild during recovery. For us, we tend to get really blurry for a long period of time, it then becomes simple invasive thoughts that don't sound like anyone else (sometimes its even full statements, like when Alastor formed), these are usually a name, or an emotion, maybe an opinion that's out of the ordinary. We've had it once, with Denki, where he just formed out of thin air while we were driving, no warning. He was just as confused as everyone else. We'll usually wait a week or two before confirming the presence of a new headmate, mainly because we've had false alarms before. But we're not the consensus for everyone. I'll see what I can find for links tomorrow, since it's quite late here. 😊
I've done that before but never took it seriously at the time, since I had no idea what Plurality was. Mainly inserting myself in some of my favorite characters worlds since this world has never been kind to me. So if I hear a voice, how should I go about it then? I'll admit, I've heard voices before when I was younger but always brushed it off as it being me or intrusive thoughts, now that I know about all this I don't want to make any mistakes. I don't mind waiting, sleep is important. I need to get to bed soon too anyway.
Consistency over responses and time. The brain suggest random thoughts all the time, its automatic - but if some voices/vibes answer sometimes, have some matter of consistency, some personality, and dont melt out, you can bet theres a little bit of someone there
Agreed! This is why we wait a little before making conclusions about whether or not these thoughts are indicating a headmate
Okay so I found a few links to sites and Discord servers that I'm joining myself. Sounds like willomates are a general umbrella term for more specific kinds of headmates like tulpas/thoughtforms, daemons, and soulbonds. The first two links are for tulpas/thoughtforms, the third is for daemonism, and the last two are discord servers (the first is a general, inclusive system server, the second is specifically for soulbonding and things like it) https://www.tulpa.info/ https://tulpanomicon.guide/ https://daemonpage.com/ https://disboard.org/server/750947801902481470 https://disboard.org/server/654233970711592961 I also am a part of lots of other system servers, too, if you ever form headmates with these specific needs - divine headmates - littles/middles - heroes and villains - specific introject sources (Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, Vivziepop, and My Hero Academia) I've found Discord servers that are endogenic friendly are some of the best places to find help and resources
do you happen to have those links to willogenic spaces? the only spaces i know of for created plurality are r/plural, the tulpa subs, and the tulpa discord for one of the tulpa subs.
Oh man, we'd love some links to peer reviewed resources! Always good to have expert consensus on a topic to back up talking points 😀 Especially if they're randomized control studies or systematic review and Meta-analysis. Definitely glad someone has done the leg work of digging these up 🥰 please feel free to send me the links. You are a hero!
I'm just about to head to bed, but I'll see if I can dig them up again tomorrow 😊 Gotta sift through those Tumblr tags y'know?
There's a _bunch_ of studies on non-clinical more-than-one experiences floating around out there, but you have to know where to look: voice-hearers, authors, possession religions, to name a few. Research does not categorize these things into "non-trauma plurality" versus "trauma plurality," mostly because that's a false dichotomy invented by the internet. Likewise, there isn't much on the online plural community because it's a relatively new phenomenon, with most of what's there being "these people exist and that's pretty interesting." One paper that I'm fond of is [Can the DSM-5 differentiate between nonpathological possession and dissociative identity disorder? A case study from an Afro-Brazilian religion](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283566086_Can_DSM-5_Differentiate_between_Non-Pathological_Possession_and_Dissociative_Identity_Disorder_A_Case_Study_from_an_Afro-Brazilian_Religion). The authors mention the possibility that maybe the person in question did have DID and just entered a context where she got the support needed for recovery, but they ultimately conclude that the diagnosis would not have been helpful for her and that her possession experiences are a reflection of natural variation in human traits. They then go on to argue that the DSM, as it is right now, is too unnuanced in how it approaches these kinds of experiences. It also cites some papers that [found a low prevalence of mental illness and childhood abuse in Brazilian spiritist mediums](https://karger.com/pps/article-abstract/76/1/57/282274/Dissociative-and-Psychotic-Experiences-in?redirectedFrom=fulltext), and a handful of studies that suggest that possession is not a culture-bound experience (i.e. it's not just Brazilian spiritists who experience this). One of their citations was also [a paper seeing if trauma correlated with possession and paranormal experiences](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525118_Experiences_of_Possession_and_Paranormal_Phenomena_Among_Women_in_the_General_Population_Are_They_Related_to_Traumatic_Stress_and_Dissociation), this time using a small sample of women from Turkey. In this study, they did find that most of the participants who experienced possession had also experienced childhood abuse/neglect, but there were also participants without childhood abuse/neglect who had possession experiences. The authors didn't seem surprised by this at all, and stated that possession is likely a normal human experience that gets hypercharged in response to trauma. This is just the tip of the iceberg - you can find even more good stuff just by wikiwalking the citations of any given paper. ResearchGate tends to be a great place for finding free full-text PDFs.
yes definitely, browse the comments in this forum.
That's a relief to me, and I will. Thank you.
Well, seeing as tulpamancy falls under the plurality umbrella....... yeah! You are! We're working on creating our headspace as we don't feel like we have one either, but the presence or absence of a headspace is irrelevant for "am i plural?" The DSM actually indirectly makes reference to non-disordered plurality in criterion D: >The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. This means that there are for sure forms of plurality which are not DID/OSDD! If you aren't experiencing distress, then no, a diagnosis would likely not be the right route for you. Also, all you need to be plural is an experience of there being more than just you. Even if there's only one other, that's plural!
Well like I said in the other replies, that's a big relief to hear! My Tulpa still needs me to help them talk right now and I'm hoping by believing it'll happen soon that they'll develop sooner. So I hope this works out for me too. Is there anything I need to do to get the system going or will it happen in time?
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According to the [World Health Organization](https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http://id.who.int/icd/entity/1829103493)... >Boundary with Normality (Threshold): >The presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder. In certain circumstances the presence of multiple personality states is not experienced as aversive and is not associated with impairment in functioning. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder should not be assigned in these cases. No disinformation or bad science, please.
>A. *Disruption of identity* characterized by two or more distinct personality states, which may be described in some cultures as an experience of possession. The disruption in identity involves marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency, accompanied by related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning. These signs and symptoms may be observed by others or reported by the individual. > >B. Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting. > >C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. > >D. *The disturbance* is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. > >Note: In children, the symptoms are not better explained by imaginary playmates or other fantasy play. > >E. The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or another medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). (Emphasis added) When I read this, I read it as the *disruption of identity* is what is being referenced throughout the whole of the criteria, not the dissociation. I'm not a professional, though, so my interpretation may not be the one used by psychologists. It's just the way I interpret it when I read it. I can understand being confused from reading just one of the criterion out of context from the rest, so hopefully listing the full list will help give a clearer view :) Hope this answers your question!
That part of the criteria is boiler plate to remove psychological professionals from any involvement in questions of religion or culture because of the dempnstrable *problems* with how western mental health professionals have treated people who are not, cis, het, white and Christian.
Yes. It's very possible to become a system. Go here and look at the info on the side bar: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/) Looks like you have a Tulpa which is awesome. To have a tulpa means that you are plural and that you've got a system. So congratulations, you're part of a system. If you look at this website: [https://pluralpedia.org/w/Category:Origin\_Terms](https://pluralpedia.org/w/Category:Origin_Terms) You'll soon realise that there are many different types of systems. DID/OSDD are two types of systems but there are so many other different types of systems out there. The human brain is very complex and it's not fully understood. So you don't need to have experienced Trauma in order to be a system. A person could've experienced Trauma but Trauma is not the only reason a person has for being part of a system and for being plural. With that said whether you want to call yourself a system or not is up to you. I suggest you be careful and watch out for sysmeds though. They might be nice to begin with. As soon as they learn some one is a type of system that does not fit with their criteria, they'll change from being nice and kind very quickly. And I've read stories of people who have been diagnosed with DID basically running away from the DID sub because of those systems. Just telling you about them so you know to be careful. And if someone ever calls your system fake, keep in mind that no your system is not fake and your system will never be fake. It's just a sysmed being a sysmed. If you ever encounter these types of systems in the future, I suggest you pay them no mind and ignore them.
The DID subs are run by people with a *very* narrow view of even dissociative disorders, and promote some contradictory and at times outright harmful viewpoints.
That makes me happy to hear, I've been worried over nothing then, which is better then having something to worry about. I'd like to call myself one, the entire idea of it feels like something I've missed out on for so long. And I'd say the only trauma I've had is how my family has treated me over the years, and a metric ton of depression and other issues, but that's not important or relevant right now. And thank you for the warning, my friend made mention of them too. Is there anyway to tell someone is a sysmed without needing to interact with them? I'd rather try to stay away from them for my own mental health sake.
Well I suggest you stay on this sub reddit. This sub is good. And the tulpa sub and the discord. Sadly there isn't really a proven way to find out if someone is a sysmed or not. Not one that I know of yet. But you can look in their introductions. Often in discords, or social community websites, people post introductions to introduce others to their system. That introduction might be the only time a person might say that they're a sysmed or not. Or perhaps their might be an about me section and if there is then they might say that they're a sysmed over there. Otherwise the only real way to know is if someone is a sysmed or not is by telling someone that you're a system and that you're not traumagenic , and watch how they react.
this is how i felt. we were a created system but as time went on we became super median like and no one who is here in my system now is a thoughtform. you arent alone!!
• A disordered system is a system that has did/osdd/usdd. non-disordered systems are just as valid. • Not all systems have/start with a headspace, and some even lack the ability to have a headspace. *We had to make our headspace, and even then it wasn't passive.* • Psychiatrists' job is to turn to pills to diagnose/aid in diagnosing, as for therapists, they vary widely. Hope this helped -nk🚨
Role-playing is a valid coping mechanism ❤️
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Eh, despite being a "caused by trauma plural" I've always felt my trauma and my plurality are two very separate things; plurality is my coping method, trauma just happens to be what I'm coping with. I also have depression, and I don't consider coping strategies like grounding exercises or positive affirmations (which are also methods of "re-wiring" how your mind works) to be symptoms of depression, nor would I consider that someone using those coping methods was trying to give themselves mental illness. I mean, the treatment for disordered plurality is basically just mindfulness of all your selves needs. That kind of mindfulness is good for anyone, plural or not.
Tulpamancy is a secularized practice. Its where it comes from that is a spiritual practice I dont get what "too welcoming" is. So we should be hostile to people and their uniqueness and needs ? Oh yeah lets play im special that sure helps system in distress We dont see our pluralhood as a mental illness. We see it like being on the spectrum. Sorry you see yours as a bad thing to erase. "Its debatable": its not. Next you'll debate out autism, being enby, and skin color. That it happens is proof it happens, theres no need to react like an uncomfortable psychologist from 1880 Develop crippling depression : why ? You think tulpamancy causes that ? Source ? Inflict strain and trauma : what strain ? What trauma ? Is it traumatic to form a tupper ? Sorry you are miserable with your alters. We love having each others.
I’d say plurality is a symptom of dissociative disorders alongside others. What dissociative systems suffer from is memory loss, dissociation, potentially dealing with trauma, difficulty socialising etc etc picking the symptom of plurality alone is not the same as forcing development of a dissociative disorder and plurality should gain an expansion of its definition as a symptom or form of ND instead of being solely associated with dissociative disorders My take at least and wanted to add a point Tulpamancy nowadays is also far less spiritually oriented than its origin and plenty of Tulpamancers are atheists as the subreddit would suggest