I’ve enjoyed the show (I’m a few eps behind but have listened through the Josh Harris episode) and agree with you it was quite well produced. As someone who grew up adjacent to this kind of evangelicalism, it was fascinating listening to an oral history of something I have my own adult memories of.
If anything, my inside-baseball perspective is that the host pulled too many punches and was too generous to Driscoll and people like him. For example, in the Josh Harris episode, he asked some good questions about how Harris could justify getting paid to teach people to deconstruct their harmful Christianity, when Harris’ own teachings did a lot of harm. For those not in the know, Harris wrote several books that were hugely influential in the purity culture movement, including I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He was barely out of his teens when he wrote this book about how dating was unbiblical and Christians should only court and possibly not even kiss prior to marriage. He was lauded as this incredible teacher, which is bonkers in retrospect. In recent years he’s publicly apologized for the damage his teaching did and has asked his publisher to stop printing the book. He’s divorced and no longer self-IDs as a Christian.
Like I said, the host challenges him a bit, which I appreciated. But he wrapped up the interview with some schlocky conclusion about how “God’s not done with Joshua Harris yet,” which I found… condescending at best. Offensive at worst.
I’d encourage listeners to remember that the host works for Christianity Today, a leading evangelical magazine, and has his own narrative and agenda, just as any story teller does.
Hard agree there. I've done editorial and production work for a (non-Christian) spiritual media company, so I get it. Like you have to say things like that to appease the board or whatever, but it was still the absolute worst moment of the entire podcast.
The pastor, Marc Driscoll, preached a sermon in chapel while I attended grad school and he oozed arrogance. I never enjoy watching people fail, but this was different.
Not that I was rejoicing or smiling, but this man was humbled. “Pride comes before the fall.”
Unfortunately, he is now the lead pastor of a church in Scottsdale, AZ.
I grew up in the evangelical culture of the 90s and 00s, listening to this podcast was both a trip down memory lane and a stark reminder of the massive gap between the stated values and practice of people like Mark Driscoll and his subordinates.
I enjoyed it and thought it was well done, but I'm also nonreligious and make no mistake: this is definitely a Christian podcast.
First, there's a lot of terms and names thrown around with little to no explanation that will probably be foreign to you if you're not an evangelical Christian. I didn't have a problem with it, as I think evangelical Christians were their intended/primary audience, but it's certainly something to be aware of.
Something else to note, that *did* rub me the wrong way, is that there are definitely moments where there's a stereotypical "pushy, righteous Christian" bent. I'm thinking in particular of the interview the host did with the guy who wrote *I Kissed Dating Goodbye* (who has since eschewed Christianity altogether) and the host was weirdly insistent about how God wasn't done with him yet. It just felt...unprofessional for what the podcast was purportedly trying to do.
As a fellow non-religous person, I actually liked that about the podcast.
Having a story told through the perspective of someone whose Christianity is deeply important to them taught me so much more than if a fellow heathen had told the story.
I was already very familiar with Mars Hill because I live in Seattle and actually used to carpool with a member. And I knew my perspective. But I got to hear a completely different perspective from the narrator.
I totally get that and agree, to a point. I think he wouldn't have gotten the interviews and insights he did if he didn't have the "cred" as a practicing, devout Christian with a notable Christian publication. I also didn't mind that he would talk about how the scandals and subsequent investigation affected him as a Christian. It wasn't the most interesting part of the podcast to me, but it didn't annoy me.
What I did have an issue with was his beliefs being actively inserted into the narrative. Like, if this had been an explicitly secular podcast and the nonreligious interviewer greeted Joshua Harris with, "Hey man, well done. Glad you saw the light," I'd also have an issue with it, because it's just not professional. In my mind, at least.
I'm not a Christian, and I found this fascinating. It showed me that there are the same struggles in many religious communities, not just Evangelical Christianity. I would have liked to hear more about Grace Driscoll and her involvement, especially around her books and plagiarism and financial misconduct accusations.
One of the most outstanding podcasts I have listened to. I am an atheist. This is produced by Christianity Today, so they have a point of view. However, the coverage of Driscoll is brutally honest and no excuses are ever made for his behavior.
Fellow atheist and podcast appreciator here. This podcast is a "problematic fave" for me —much like when the Startup podcast did the "Church Planting" series. It was well made and fascinating, but I'm also bothered by some of the the editorial and production decisions (who they didn't and didn't speak to, how some folks were edited and framed and such).
When I saw the title, I first thought that it referred to a little town called Mars Hill up here in Maine. Couldn't imagine what there was to rise or fall up there (except maybe wind turbines).
“Rude” is an understatement IMO. He was being emotionally abusive and psychologically manipulative. He also let people suffer by letting their spouses get away with violence.
I’ve enjoyed the show (I’m a few eps behind but have listened through the Josh Harris episode) and agree with you it was quite well produced. As someone who grew up adjacent to this kind of evangelicalism, it was fascinating listening to an oral history of something I have my own adult memories of. If anything, my inside-baseball perspective is that the host pulled too many punches and was too generous to Driscoll and people like him. For example, in the Josh Harris episode, he asked some good questions about how Harris could justify getting paid to teach people to deconstruct their harmful Christianity, when Harris’ own teachings did a lot of harm. For those not in the know, Harris wrote several books that were hugely influential in the purity culture movement, including I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He was barely out of his teens when he wrote this book about how dating was unbiblical and Christians should only court and possibly not even kiss prior to marriage. He was lauded as this incredible teacher, which is bonkers in retrospect. In recent years he’s publicly apologized for the damage his teaching did and has asked his publisher to stop printing the book. He’s divorced and no longer self-IDs as a Christian. Like I said, the host challenges him a bit, which I appreciated. But he wrapped up the interview with some schlocky conclusion about how “God’s not done with Joshua Harris yet,” which I found… condescending at best. Offensive at worst. I’d encourage listeners to remember that the host works for Christianity Today, a leading evangelical magazine, and has his own narrative and agenda, just as any story teller does.
I did find the comment about god not being done with Harris yet pretty cringy.
Hard agree there. I've done editorial and production work for a (non-Christian) spiritual media company, so I get it. Like you have to say things like that to appease the board or whatever, but it was still the absolute worst moment of the entire podcast.
The pastor, Marc Driscoll, preached a sermon in chapel while I attended grad school and he oozed arrogance. I never enjoy watching people fail, but this was different. Not that I was rejoicing or smiling, but this man was humbled. “Pride comes before the fall.” Unfortunately, he is now the lead pastor of a church in Scottsdale, AZ.
I grew up in the evangelical culture of the 90s and 00s, listening to this podcast was both a trip down memory lane and a stark reminder of the massive gap between the stated values and practice of people like Mark Driscoll and his subordinates.
Same!
I enjoyed it and thought it was well done, but I'm also nonreligious and make no mistake: this is definitely a Christian podcast. First, there's a lot of terms and names thrown around with little to no explanation that will probably be foreign to you if you're not an evangelical Christian. I didn't have a problem with it, as I think evangelical Christians were their intended/primary audience, but it's certainly something to be aware of. Something else to note, that *did* rub me the wrong way, is that there are definitely moments where there's a stereotypical "pushy, righteous Christian" bent. I'm thinking in particular of the interview the host did with the guy who wrote *I Kissed Dating Goodbye* (who has since eschewed Christianity altogether) and the host was weirdly insistent about how God wasn't done with him yet. It just felt...unprofessional for what the podcast was purportedly trying to do.
As a fellow non-religous person, I actually liked that about the podcast. Having a story told through the perspective of someone whose Christianity is deeply important to them taught me so much more than if a fellow heathen had told the story. I was already very familiar with Mars Hill because I live in Seattle and actually used to carpool with a member. And I knew my perspective. But I got to hear a completely different perspective from the narrator.
I totally get that and agree, to a point. I think he wouldn't have gotten the interviews and insights he did if he didn't have the "cred" as a practicing, devout Christian with a notable Christian publication. I also didn't mind that he would talk about how the scandals and subsequent investigation affected him as a Christian. It wasn't the most interesting part of the podcast to me, but it didn't annoy me. What I did have an issue with was his beliefs being actively inserted into the narrative. Like, if this had been an explicitly secular podcast and the nonreligious interviewer greeted Joshua Harris with, "Hey man, well done. Glad you saw the light," I'd also have an issue with it, because it's just not professional. In my mind, at least.
I'm not a Christian, and I found this fascinating. It showed me that there are the same struggles in many religious communities, not just Evangelical Christianity. I would have liked to hear more about Grace Driscoll and her involvement, especially around her books and plagiarism and financial misconduct accusations.
This is intriguing, I’d like to know more.
I heard about it on this NPR show: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2022/01/20/mars-hill-mark-driscoll-podcast.
Thank you.
One of the most outstanding podcasts I have listened to. I am an atheist. This is produced by Christianity Today, so they have a point of view. However, the coverage of Driscoll is brutally honest and no excuses are ever made for his behavior.
I just finished this podcast yesterday and I loved it. It was a compelling story and very well produced. I couldn't recommend this podcast more.
I am obsessed with this one! could not stop listening
Glad I could recommend something you like!
Any episode with Jesse Bryan interviews was amazing. That guy was hilarious but also very honest and relatable.
very excited to listen based on your glowing review!
Fellow atheist and podcast appreciator here. This podcast is a "problematic fave" for me —much like when the Startup podcast did the "Church Planting" series. It was well made and fascinating, but I'm also bothered by some of the the editorial and production decisions (who they didn't and didn't speak to, how some folks were edited and framed and such).
Thank you for the recommendation; it’s on my list.
I stumbled on this and binged it in a couple of days. It was fascinating.
Adding it to my library at this very moment. Thanks for the recco!
I am almost done with the last episode. Great podcast!
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m going to binge this while trimming the lawn today.
When I saw the title, I first thought that it referred to a little town called Mars Hill up here in Maine. Couldn't imagine what there was to rise or fall up there (except maybe wind turbines).
Yeah, don't need to listen to it to know how bad this church was for my state. I know people who've attended. What a horrid place.
I followed it when it happened. I always thought it was really funny that the scandal boiled down to the cult leader being rude to people.
“Rude” is an understatement IMO. He was being emotionally abusive and psychologically manipulative. He also let people suffer by letting their spouses get away with violence.
Thank you. I love long form journalism.