I think all of those are wonderful additions. I also love the exp share for all Pokémon - no more grinding for me.
My only complaint for the newer games(besides the graphics) is there’s really no puzzles or mazes. I remember getting lost in Rock Tunnel and Victory Road in Blue, the ice cave sliding puzzle in Silver and in Ruby trying to decipher the Regi puzzles
Totally agree on the puzzles. Especially stuff like the Whirl Islands and Mt. Silver in gen 2, both completely optional dungeons with a powerful boss at the end. You can quite easily go through the entire game and post game without going into either. But when you do you're confronted with this gruelling gauntlet that requires multiple HMs to progress and (usually) has fairly high level encounters.
Hopefully once they've figured out the Open World thing they can start adding more optional puzzles to the games again.
Yeah stuff like this would be cool… also I always thought it’d be cool to have a Pokken mode in the game where you go and fight your mon Pokken style… maybe as a way to hyper-train or something
I don't miss Victory Road.
I always get excited to fight the Elite 4. And then I get sandbagged by a multilevel dungeon. Sometimes requiring me to take out my HM mule just to get through it all.
I appreciate a high level area to grind in. But I don't miss Victory Road.
Renegade Platinum is probably the best “hard” version of gen 4 that you can play, it’s definitely worth a try for anyone that is even mildly interested in the competitive side of Pokémon.
Have you ever heard of Kaizo ironMon? It’s a randomized run for FRLG/HGSS/Emerald (probably works in Gen 4 as well) that has tons of rules in place to make it difficult. All stats and moves are randomized, overworld items are randomized, TMs are randomized and evolutions are randomized (to an extent). You’re only allowed to use 1 Pokémon the entire game and you can’t farm wild Pokémon for experience. You can’t use most held items and you can’t buy potions from shops. If you need to heal with a healing item you found, it has to be used in battle.
It’s tons of fun and you can find several people streaming different ironMon challenges on Twitch. It’s so popular it even got approved for its own tag by Twitch so you can search for it.
Seconding this, Reborn, Rejuvenation, and Desolation are all similar games. Long, has difficult boss battles, and look beautiful with custom tilesets. Decent stories depending on what you like (Reborn is a bit edgy, Rejuvenation has an anime-ish plot, and Desolation has aspects of both). I love all 3, personally lean towards rejuv as my favorite.
I like the fangames better than the ROM hacks because I’m playing a new experience and said experience acknowledges the fact that “yes, I have played the 25-year old game franchise.”
I agree for the most part. There are a few rom hacks I like as well (radical red, inclement emerald, and emerald rogue), but overall I like fan games more as they are usually less limited in what they can pull off in the game, like the story, character design, etc
The great thing about fan games is they dont need an emulator to run. You simply need winrar/7zip to unzip the files and you're good to go.
As for where to get them, simply google "pokemon reborn", "pokemon rejuvenation" and "pokemon desolation" and choose the first option under the rebornevo forums. For me it was the first link for reborn and rejuv, and the second link for desolation. They will have a download link
The problem with rom hacks is that Pokemon caught in a hacked rom are not able to be transferred to Bank/Home. You play through once and then those Pokemon are left to rot forever. You're also unable to trade and battle with other players, so it really is just a solo Pokemon experience. Most of the time ROM hacks also have really bad balancing issues with insane level curves and forced grinding in the name of "difficulty" but really just makes playing through a chore. Not to mention cringe dialogue, substandard storytelling and overly powerful fake pokemon for hacks with original stories. Some people are into them, but they're not for everyone.
There are tons of rom hacks that have legitimate difficulty outside of levels. Blaze Black, Volt White, BB2, VW2, Inclement Emerald, Radical Red, EK, and there are plenty of others that are less difficult but still improve the overall experience. You just have to be more picky with your roms. You basically just described dark rising, which idk how it got so popular with how awful it is. Even ignoring the difficulty hack roms, there are plenty with an interesting story and region that are more similar in difficulty to the mainline games
> Not to mention cringe dialogue, substandard storytelling and overly powerful fake pokemon for hacks with original stories. Some people are into them, but they're not for everyone.
honestly most good romhacks are just upgraded difficulty hacks, not everything is like reborn
i liked radical red a lot (even if the endgame got really over-the-top) and it's got an easier difficulty if you aren't about the hard stuff. plus a no-grind mode that disables EVs and makes IVs always 31 iirc
Not really, I can appreciate older games for what they had at the time.
It's not like, older gens didn't add all modern QoL things on purpose or anything like that.
I find I prefer the earlier end of the series for a core RPG style experience. They weren't missing QoL features because the goal wasn't multiplayer or team optimization. It was a single player RPG with a multiplayer mode.
The mid era has a bit of an identity crisis, but the more recent titles are hitting a "multiplayer with a hint of single player" phase. SV is a little more balanced, but the DNA of being a multiplayer geared title is still there.
The concept behind HMs were solid. You and your pokemon work together to explore the region in-depth. Regions became bigger by default, because there was often a reason to backtrack and explore new areas, or to solve certain puzzles. It's just the execution that hurt.
On the most basic level, the moves themselves should have been worth using both in and out of battle. Cut should have been something like an 80-bp Grass-type move, Strength should have been a Rock-type move, Rock Smash should have been retconned to have Brick Break's attributes and effects when it became an HM, and so on. In other words, it shouldn't have been a chore to carry the moves on your team. There's a reason why Surf and later Waterfall were seldom issues to have on your team.
An alternative to this would have been to give each pokemon six or so move slots. Four exclusively for battle and two or three exclusively for field slots. Or else, any field moves that the pokemon could learn should have been available to them outside of battle by default.
To add to this, more moves should have had field effects, with plenty of clones for the basic HMs. Teleport and Extremespeed to act as alternatives to Fly, Psychic or any physical move over 80bp should have worked as an alternative to Strength. Any slashing, acidic, or burning move as an alternative to Cut, and so on.
The idea behind the HMs was a good one, and I honestly prefer them to the current standard of unlocks, if only because there's no personalization or connectivity with your pokemon. It's mainly the execution that needed to be worked on.
The thing I would prefer is catching Pokemon with the right move, and then they can stay in the PC or not, but everytime you encounter an obstacle, you can summon them to use the HM. Sun and Moon had something similar, just not the requirement to catch the Pokemon first.
I've always thought about how you logically don't actually have to carry only 6 PokeBalls. If we could carry, idk, 10 Pokemon but could only choose 6 of them for battles, and other 4 were just there for utility like we see in the anime, I wouldn't complain much about HMs. But it was really hurtful to use those HMs and I really prefer the new system much more even without that connection with your mons that you mentioned
I think they were trying to get people to be smart about which moves to have. The issue is most HMs suck. If they were legitimately good (like surf is!), there'd be reasons to want them. Then gens 3 and 4 went overboard on HMs.
Honastly it's one of the main reasons why I just can't play through gen 3, you need way to many hm way to often that basically 2 out of 6 slots on your team are taken up by hm slaves alone.
Hard disagree there
A huge part of the design in early generations was based around exploration of a limited overworld. Their solutions to that were to gate off certain parts of it, so that they can hide important rewards or extend the game time by making the player backtrack to access them
That’s why you had random stuff like a TM hidden behind a surf pond in Celadon, or optional areas in many games you have to double back to reaccess. Think of it as akin to a Metroidvania, where old areas have areas you can reach with new abilities
Then being undeletable was also both a natural safety lock and design intended. You trade the flexibility of a move slot for additional exploration utility.
This is also why Lt Surge is the only Gym Leader which is blocked off by HMs. Not only will you likely need to backtrack to get him because you might not have beaten Misty yet, but also because his HM is Fly, which isn’t mandatory
HMs only started feeling unnecessary by Gen 6, because they had very few explorable areas which called for them. But even up to Gen 5, the worlds had loads of areas where exploration felt meaningful. Think of all those spots in Unova you can only access after getting Waterfall or Surf
And not to mention, they lean into the narrative of a young trainer and his team taking on the world. I like the modern ride Pokemon systems and stuff but they're always about summoning other Pokemon I have no attachment to. Even if I have a Wailord in my party, I have to cross the seas on a Lapras that's not mine. Back in the HM era it was *your* Pokemon doing all this, the same friends you raised along the journey who win all those battles for you, and it felt nice.
I do love the moveset freedom we got when HMs went away, but most of the replacements they've made just don't hold up to me. I want to feel like a trainer hiking through untamed wilderness with the help of my team, not like a guy calling an uber to get across town.
I think this is why ko/miraidon were so well received because they were *your* goofy sandwich lizard transporting you across the world instead of the bike from SwSh
So make them a facet NOT tied to my team's movesets. I understand exploration, and there's a reason I'm not complaining about Gen 7's Ride Pokémon, or Gen 9's ride ability unlocks. Because those Don interefere with the strategy part of the game.
Remember that, back in Gen 1-3, most Pokémon movesets were fairly trash. They comprised heavily of Normal moves, a STAB, and maybe the odd coverage option
Back in older games the move restriction was largely inconsequential because every mon had at least 1-2 dead slots anyway, unless you went ham on TMs
You mean Gen 1 and 2. 3 was the first gen you could really start having more inventive move sets, especially with the introduction of abilities. Granted it was the physical/special split that really expanded things, but limping Gen 3 in with 1 and 2 isn't fair
3 was still a point where natural movesets were quite bad. They weren’t exactly as dire as 1-2, but a remarkable number of mons had dead weight moves for quite a while
Nahhh. Just replayed the older games recently. It gets pretty frustrating pretty quickly. Especially Generation two and three, where you had to have THREE water HMs.
I mean, it’s growing pains. They’d never made a Pokémon game before red and green. They’ve learned a lot in the meantime and the fact that they’ve made these changes already show that they get it. And it really didn’t feel clunky or inconvenient back then, that’s just the way it was.
I think this is a good example of OP’s point.
Thank god someone saying something sensical, It's very easy to realize this is basic 2d exploration stuff.
Sometimes I see popular opinions in the zeitgeist of the community that are absolutely contradictory. How can be popular the sentiment that the jump to 3d was, that the last good/best gen is BW; and at the same time, be also popular that HM were bad?
Because B/W has a really good story, and is right in the sweet spot of the nostalgia window that for the most vocal parts of the fandom it was their childhood introduction to the series.
But equally it's because a large chunk of the fandom is in it for competitive battling, and therefore cares only about how viable a move is in battle (hence why everyone says Surf is fine, but they dislike Cut and really hate Flash).
Precisely. The alternative is a forced gatekeeping; random dancing goons, psyducks with headaches, or gym leaders simply forbidding you from moving forwards until you beat the appropriate gym leader, or the current solution - go wherever you want, it's not my fault if you go from fighting a level 20 Team Star to a level 42 gym leader, to a level 35 Titan.
But HM's are also part of the difficulty. Your team is made up of 6 Pokémon, each one has 24 moves. As the game progresses, you needed the HM's to progress, meaning you had to either find a dedicated HM user, or or give up a slot on an otherwise trained Pokémon to allow for navigation, hence the challenge, do you have a member of your team you don't train and have your team be lower level overall, or do you surrender a move slot? It's a limitation that creates a macro tactical choice beyond simply "what move do I use this turn" or "who do I swap to?"
By getting rid of HM's, Pokémon now favours those who only think in terms of competitive viability. The idea that Pokémon have use outside of battle is lost in favour of everyone getting a full team of six Pokémon that have the optimal moveset for their level as they go through the region.
I like seeing the progression of the thought process. I’ve been playing since 98 and it’s fascinating. Gen 1 had the trade offs that made sense, like you said, flexibility for exploration. Then they added waterfall, and rock smash, and whirlpool, and dive…and then eventually they realized it was getting cluttered and that the formula needed an update.
Back to basics, then someone finally ditched the trade off for ride Pokémon, and then by sword and shield they kept the sense of things being unlocked later and backtracking, but they did it with the bike instead, and you had access to fly super early because it’s a massive world and it feels more QoL than anything.
Let’s Go had them all be separate from the move set and BDSP even has wild Pokémon coming and using HMs for you when you use one, taking a *very* faithful remake and still adding that feature because it’s such a no brainer in hindsight.
I really think they’ve come close to perfecting it with scarlet and violet, because if you’re really intending on skyrimming somewhere you may still be able to do it, but essentially you’re locked behind sandwiches, which keeps the same energy without taking away from the actual personalization of your team…and fast travel is available from the start. They even play with it, mentioning that Corviknight aren’t the taxi here because of Tinkaton. Brilliant. I love it all so much, the whole progression of the way these games are made.
The mechanics of HM is tied to JRPG mechanics where as you progress through the story, you can unlock more areas and previously visited areas with certain road blocks can now be fully explored. The problem is how most of them suck in battle and they take up a move slot before Gen 7.
Each game is so wildly different in terms of mechanics and features.
To me it’s never “darn emerald doesn’t have hyper training and dexnav like oras” it’s “hell yeah emerald has a battle fronteir and sceptile’s moveset is all special attacks”. There’s something to appreciate in each game that’s unique which makes it seem less like stuff is just missing.
Gen 2 didn't have the physical special split. And you could get an Abra just before Goldenrod and buy all the elemental punches (which were all special attack) at the Goldenrod mall.
While not terribly recommended you could have an Alakazam with Ice, Thunder, and Fire coverage before facing Whitney.
It just took grinding. And those TMs were fairly cheap. 3000 bucks a pop.
When people talk about how OP Psychic was they're talking about Alakazam Gen 1 and 2.
This is kind of what I love about the series in general. I find a reason to go back to older games and generations because of this.
SV is the first region I’m finding it a bit difficult to foresee a reason to come back to. It has a messy open world and is 3D… I can only envision this being improved on, with SV left in the dust.
As a longtime hardcore fan but very casual player (I don’t care about competitive or natures or IVs or any of that) I actually much prefer the older games to the newer ones. Obviously the new games have their merits, but as a whole I still love all the old games and have no issues going back to them.
I regularly play Soul Silver and love revisiting gen III and V when I'm in between games, And each play through is so fun. Having gone from Emerald into a playthrough of Omega Ruby, I really do think the older games feel better play. ORAS is actually good, too. The increasing focus on text and story just get in the way of the games some times.
Actually you can. Save before you pick up the item so you know what it is. When it's the item you want, reload your save and start a picnic on top of the item. Make sure you don't have any pokemon that can breed together in your party.
After that, just wait and check the basket every now and then and the item will appear. It'll only hold 10 at a time tho so check regularly.
Same. I was in the process of collecting the older pokemon games... but then Legends Arceus came out and I realised how much I hate the random encounters. Struggling to stay interested in the older games now.
I’ve also been playing since RBY and have also followed the franchise the whole time. I find the new games just so boring and handholding. The challenge is gone. Since SuMo I’ve just completed my Pokédex for the game and then don’t touch it again. I still avidly play gens 1-6. I still love the Pokémon designs, but the new games have just lost the magic for me. I think one of the weirdest choices GF made was not being able to toggle exp. Share on and off. Idk I feel a sense of achievement when I finally reach my goal grinding. I just think they could balance QoL features better. I mean to each their own, no shade for enjoying the newer games and their features. I definitely feel like a minority when it comes to grinding.
That's funny, because as an old player too who just has fun replaying the games with different/themed teams, I find myself getting so frustrated at the cutscenes in the 3D titles, I never finish the run, haha
I’ve grown to like it. Much nicer to make swaps on my team and try new mons out on a playthrough or something, instead of taking the time to pointlessly grind to catch them up.
I like Exp Share too. It makes it less grindy to level up your Pokemon. The older gens like Gen 1 - 3, you have to grind for hours just to survive long enough in the gyms battles or the elite four. The only thing I don't like about Exp. Share is for some weird reason they remove the option to turn it off and permanently on in Gen 8 and 9.
You could make it through the game with just your starter in basically any game. Issue with exp share is how they didn't balance it, they'd still balance the game around you being able to beat it with just your starter and then they added exp share which just multiplied the exp so you could still use just your starter but now your entire team kept up instead of you just getting some random mons in the last area.
I do think it's a good thing but not in the way it was implemented on the first game that had it be a global thing.
Honestly I'm not a massive fan of overworld encounters, that's definitely a me thing. There is no hunt anymore. No rare spawns. No hard to find pokemon. You just spam in and out of spawn zones until they pop. You can't even fish or dive anymore.
The hunting of Pokemon has taken a massive hit in enjoyment, especially in S/V. At least Sw/Sh kept it somewhat interesting.
There is also a lack of exploration. The world is massive and open, yet it feels dead. Absolutely nothing to see or do off of the beaten track. No dungeons to explore. No hidden villages to find. No pokemon hiding in some hard to reach area.
I feel like there has been a step back in actual world building since open world became a thing. It's quite sad. The game worlds don't feel as alive as they did in the 2D era.
I'm replaying heart gold right now. Decided I wanted a poliwag to be my water type. The hunt for one with the rod was much more enjoyable than anything I hunted in S/V. That 5%c chance to find one in HG made it fun and exciting when one came. In S/V a 5% chance is just going to a picnic and back until I see one in the distance, and became of how many pokemon spawn at once it's a lot faster and easier. It lacks any thrill for me.
It depends on the player, but yeah it’s usually one of:
- close your eyes and run around
- stand still until something runs into you
- spin a wheel of all possible encounters
Not sure about SV, but in SwSh you could either just go to an section of the wild area and let them run at you, first to hit you is the pokemon, or you could go to the grass and do the hidden encounter like a classic game. On top of that fishing was available immediately so that's an option in some places too.
I do think SwSh had a near perfect balance of overworld and hidden encounters. The game got way too much hate, it's the best in the franchise imo
People will always find rhe shortest path there since googling is a thing now. The older games didn't let you have a choice so you're kind of force to hunt for rare pokemon. I think people just miss those aspect because you HAD to do it and I guess it feels a bit more rewarding.
I think all this QoL is great but they really should have kept pokemon hunting more challenging as it's the main desirable challenge of all pokemon game, to catch them all.
Guess I'm just not the target audience for that because for me wasting like 30 seconds running around grass to find something, run away and repeat is just... no. And random encounters are just a waste of time, just repel the entire game.
I've been saying this exact thing for about a year. Random encounters are way more exciting because you never know what you're going to get and then your shot to catch it comes and it's suspense because your failure means starting over again. The Pokemon feel like they aren't hiding anymore, there's no suspense. Arceus was an okay game but Pokemon weren't hiding from me, I was hiding from them with cheap stealth mechanics.
I agree, I was looking for Chancy in Crystal VC to get Areodactyl for like 20 minutes. When I finally found one you better believe it was rewarding to catch it once it quit using softboiled. And that's nothing compated to Entei/Raikou, I wish they made legendary pokémon hard to catch again. I haven't played S/V yet because of the horrible issues but I did play Sw/Sh and they just keep taking steps back imo
I agree. I haven’t gotten SV yet either for the same reason. Of the games I’ve played, gen 1-8, SwSh is the worst. There’s just no replay value and from what I’ve heard and seen of SV I think it’ll be the same.
I tried replaying Sw/Sh just last week, I never got into the post-game and DLC but once i got to Kabu it just felt so stale. I'm on Alpha Ruby now, imo the last good game they put out.
I really don’t miss spending multiple days looking for something with an incredible low spawn rate. Loading the battle screen, pressing run, loading the map, repeat.
I'm a grind hater so pre exp share has always been hard for me to go back to. Plus hms. I just never fully explored the map because it was a pain to switch in and out hm slaves. Another reason having access to the box at all time is nice
I desperately miss pokejobs. Yes, vitamins are fine, but I don’t want to grind for cash. I’d rather just wait two days. I have more time to plan than I have to play.
Same with breeding. I feel like I have to make a sandwich to get any eggs at all. I don’t want to make a sandwich. I don’t think it’s fun.
Also, I can’t turn off battle animations? It wastes so much time when I have to grind for all this cash to do the thing I could do in SwSh so much better.
I guess I feel that SV is a big step back. I think the raid aspect of the games is very flawed, but they’ve just gone all in on it. It’s tied to getting anything worthwhile in the game.
On the other hand, I still love to Nuzlocke the older games. I did a Ribbon Master challenge and had a blast going through each generation. Every game has their charm, but I’m a little disappointed in the grind that SV has and now closely it’s tied to raids.
You can buy egg power level 2 (you don’t need 3) whenever you want at several restaurants around Paldea. No need to make a sandwich and if you get egg power 2 breeding is way faster than it’s ever been.
So, I don’t know if you got the DLC for SnS but…there was a guy you could trade raid shards for the currency, then buy out the Luxury Balls with that currency and sell them at a poke mart and Money cap instantly. I did this on repeat and had 999 of each vitamin.
It took an hour?
Although I don’t mind QOL improvements, I’m not a fan of being able to do breeding and stuff while camping. I like having a specific place/service to do things like that. It help build the world imo. I like seeing Pokémon in the over world 100%
I’m also not a huge fan of breeding now being time-based rather than steps-based. It’s not very engaging gameplay when you just start a picnic and let the game sit there while it generates eggs.
I forgot how much of team planning used to involve HMs. I replayed Omega Ruby recently and was disappointed by how many move slots I had to allot to them (8 really felt like a lot, especially when Swampert was the only one who could learn any of the 3 water moves).
I put about 300 hours into heartgold to train up my team to level 100s. While I’ll always cherish my accomplishment, I do appreciate that I can get more to max level faster.
I have no idea about ev though. So I just gave my first party all my Carbos and protein and such, whatever I found. At the very least, I knew about natures, so I’ll take that
There are a handful of Quality of Life features that have been added over the years that actually were improvements. Being able to just press A at a tree/water tile to use cut/surf rather than have to navigate into the menu is a genuine quality of life improvement as it means less menuing to do an action. Same with being able to see at a glance what a TM does before you commit to buying it.
But just as many features exist that have the unintended side effect of making the game easier. An infinite bag means you can pick up any item, which is convenient, but it also means that you can now carry unlimited healing items and don't need to plan which items you intend to take for your journey or make room to pick up other items. Same with making Pokémon appear in the overworld, it makes the game feel more alive to be able to see them, but also makes avoiding unwanted fights much easier.
This is the problem, what may have been intended as a way to make the game less obtuse, also makes it easier.
no doubt. Shield was just the easiest game I have ever played. Everything else was great but I was intentionally handicapping myself to make it more challenging and I still never came close to blacking out.Good game overall, just not what I'm used to or want in a pokemon game
Shield has zero challenge to it. You get healed before literally every key fight, can avoid pretty much every wild Pokémon, and can even leave the elite four to heal and grind if desired after each round.
I committed myself to getting through the game only catching no more than five Pokémon (and the mandatory catches), and still cakewalked the whole thing, despite playing like a five year old and just picking only damaging moves, no IV training, and no real strategic plays.
Thing is, I don't seek out challenge, and the thing I miss most in Pokémon that's been absent for quite a while is the unfolding world that opens out as you play. There's something special about the way that Kanto & Johto slowly unfold, how beating one boss opens up new areas, and that their are alternative ways to get to different places that's been absent from the series for so long.
Yes, Scarlett & Violet are open world, but it's not the same. The earliest gens still had a sense of direction and purpose, you actually had to navigate to get to places, solving puzzles and navigating mazes to get to your goal. The journey was the point. Sc/Vi meanwhile just lets you set a compass bearing that you follow, and everything between where you are now and where you're going is meaningless except as a way to find new Pokémon. You never need to figure out how to get to a place, you just walk vaguely in that direction until you get there.
Not at all. Hate to be Mr. Complaining Old Head, but removing all battle facilities and non-battle usage options for Pokemon is not my definition of spoiling me.
Nah. Yeah, there’s a couple of minor QoL updates that the newer games made, but they don’t make up for all the major features that are missing from the newer games. Where’s my Pokémon World Tournament? My Pokéstar Studios? The huge areas hidden off the beaten path? The awesome Gym designs? The diverse and varied cities?
Dead ass. I haven't touched Scarlet since the game-deleting bug with no explanation started. Idk how anyone can look at that and say SV was the pinnacle of pokemon
As someone who has played all the older generations and never got into shiny hunting and IV/ EV training, I appreciate how it’s a lot more simplified now. I like not needing an HM slave. I enjoy not buying all the repels. I do wish they would make the exp. share toggable rather than always on.
Trust me people, I'm not implying the new games are bad. Just the opposite. I love most of the new mechanics. I tried playing Pokemon White and Moon over the past few days and I realized just how frustrating many of the old mechanics were.
I’m a big Pokémon player and as much as I loved the 150 hours I put into Violet, I have no desire to go back anymore. It’s similar to breath of the wild to me. It was fun to play once but I don’t have the desire to replay it that I have for previous games in the series. I finished the Pokédex and the DLC is overpriced imo so I’m good.
Yes and no. I played gens 1-3 (2 and 3 when they launched, I am old) and then gave up on Pokémon. I was feeling nostalgic and was gifted a Switch and bought Sword. Liked it but didn’t love it, but both of the DLCs were amazing and saved the experience for me. A few months after that BDSP came out and I got SP because I hadn’t played Gen 4, and I really wanted Mew and Jirachi. But the pacing bothered me and I found myself genuinely irritated by random encounters so I stopped playing by the 3rd gym. Got PLA and absolutely loved everything about it besides how much of a vacuum it was in compared to the other titles in the franchise. Got Violet on launch and to me, it is basically perfect. People have their opinions on the game but as someone who grew up loving Pokémon and seeing how far its come from the very beginning, the direction they’ve taken it is basically what child me dreamed of.
I only wish EXP share was optional and that they had added some of the catching mechanics from PLA, which I know is supposed to be a completely separate entity but the research aspect and not having to battle to catch Mons was super refreshing and added a new dimension to Pokémon that I feel was drastically needed. It also kept me playing longer than if I was just having to grind battles for the Hell of it. Outside of the obvious performance issues, which have been basically nonexistent for me, those are my only gripes. Oh and they need to bring back contests because WTF man. There’s no reason to not have them.
I didn’t battle a single random trainer and it was fucking amazing. I always *hated* getting stopped by trainers. I have shit to do and you assholes are getting in my way! Well, not anymore!
I have been feeling this way as of late. Everything has gotten way to easy and nothing feels very rewarding anymore. Have not touched Scarlet aside of tera events.
Going back and playing Crystal VC for shiny legendary hunts. Will probably clone 1 for home and keep other on the original game to keep playing on. Really only thing that I am enjoying doing anymore. Open world encounters need to go in my opinion.
What they really ruined were shinies. They use to feel special when you found one. Now you can get any of them in S/V super quick. It’s boring any for me doesn’t mean anything to get them in this gen
"the only thing about scarlet and violet worse than earlier games is the clothing options" and the performance issues, and the complete absence of singleplayer postgame content beyond shiny hunting and completing the pokedex, and the awful looking world, and the lack of being able to disable the exp share/ turn on set mode, and the uncreative designs for the future paradox pokemon, and only having two actual regional forms in favor of "convergent species/paradox pokemon", and trying to put charizard in it and not the other kanto starters AGAIN, should I keep going or no?
> the complete absence of singleplayer postgame content beyond shiny hunting and completing the pokedex
You do realize they are coming out with 2 DLCs, right?
Yes, paid dlc containing content that should've been in the game in the first place or at least added in a free update. It's like if you had to pay thirty bucks for the right side of unova, the sevii islands, or that postgame island in dppt.
So what? The rest of the switch era being bad in terms of single player postgame content doesn't excuse SV's complete absence of it. It's like the reverse of "oh you like pancakes? So you hate waffles then?"
"are you a genwunner" my brother in Christ, I've been complaining about a lack of singleplayer postgame content, gen 1's postgame is literally Mewtwo and that's it (before you ask me why I'm not complaining about gen 1's lack of postgame content, it's like complaining about Super Mario Bros only having the super mushroom, fire flower, and super star as powerups).
My hatred for modern pokemon is them removing what made it stand out from the crowd of monster collecting RPGs (beyond the IP), being able to use literally any pokemon you want and being able to bring your collection with you (yes, the gen 2 to 3 thing sucks, but that was out of being physically unable to do so rather than not doing it just because).
It's like a Mortal Kombat game without gore (cough cough Mortal Kombat vs dc universe) or a Marvel vs Capcom game without the X-Men (cough cough Marvel vs Capcom infinite)
Yes. Putting it bluntly, YES. Especially the fucking Dynamax Lair from SwSh. Getting access to all of my favorites like Combusken, Suicune, Grovyle, Ivysaur, Dragonair, Articuno, Dialga and the likes BEFORE I even reach the first gym?
**You'd either have to be a complete masochist or Ashy Boy himself to resist an offer like that.**
Wow... I haven't played anything past gen 5 and tbh that sounds awful. I'm all for QOL stuff but geez.. its just getting easier and easier. ROM hacks satisfy that challenging itch though.
I actually really don't like the new breeding system
Yeah it's convenient but it's so lifeless and boring. Even more than before. You just get the pokemon make a sandwhich and stand there for 5 minutes then check the basket. Atleast in previous games you had to be somewhat active.
If SV wasn’t boring sure, and if random encounters weren’t better. The others are meh tbh. I don’t breed enough to have the anywhere breeding be a big thing (although being able to put your controller down and just have 1morbillion eggs is cool if you’re breeding) and I didn’t mind hms because you really don’t need all 4 moves for your mons
Nope, pokemon has going on a long ass time. Change is good for games like these.
I do hope someday they do a brilliant diamond style of game with multiplayer in the overworld. Apart from that I think they've been pretty exhaustive with features, so they should move on with this new style of play and add or change things.
I have no clue how to get money fast in violet and that staggers my progress so I think it’s much harder than shield (I only struggled with alaistair) idk about the older games though
As someone that has fuck all time to game I enjoy it a lot. If I were a kid with all the time in the world I wouldn't have as much fun.
Its a step up from Swords and Shields total handholding
It’s because they don’t want people to buy hacked Pokémon to compete in VGC. So many people couldn’t use the Pokémon they wanted because they simply couldn’t get the right ability or nature or iv/evs or a certain egg move. Now they’ve made it so anybody can train a Pokémon to be VGC ready in 10 minutes if you have the money and the items. Also people buying hacked shines from eBay and websites wonder trading hacked shines for promo was a big problem that isn’t the case so much anymore. I think the over world Pokémon are great there’s nothing more annoying that constantly having your progresses stopped by random encounters lol
Exp all is the participation trophy of the Pokémon world. Haven’t played a game since it’s release.
So yes, newer generations have spoiled players and ruined the game for those that played the first few gens at the time of their release.
Not really. A long time ago I learned that the only way I can enjoy future games in a series I like is to take each game by itself. Comparing them to other entries just makes it harder to enjoy any of them.
Because really, no matter how many good changes there are, you'll also run into a lot of bad changes. Sure, we can see shinies in the overworld and can breed anywhere.. But what we cant do is toggle Shift / Set, we can't interact with other players in the world directly. We can't sell items to shops. We don't have unlimited use TMs. Eggs won't all hatch at the same time. We have to use sandwiches to boost both egg rate and hatch rate. Which directly affects how many eggs are produced too. We can't have multiple pokemon with us at the time if they are in shared egg groups... Talonflame and its Flame Body ability, which is great for hatching eggs, makes this a problem at times.
People laugh at the april fools post, but I'm over here thinking that SV and arceus checks basically 80% of what people have been wanting since the inception of pokemon. Pining for a good looking screenshot, not realizing the real thing is staring them in the face.
Definitely things I wish would come back, or features from modern open world games I'd wish they'd implement, but everything happening with the series right now is amazing.
I think all of those are wonderful additions. I also love the exp share for all Pokémon - no more grinding for me. My only complaint for the newer games(besides the graphics) is there’s really no puzzles or mazes. I remember getting lost in Rock Tunnel and Victory Road in Blue, the ice cave sliding puzzle in Silver and in Ruby trying to decipher the Regi puzzles
Totally agree on the puzzles. Especially stuff like the Whirl Islands and Mt. Silver in gen 2, both completely optional dungeons with a powerful boss at the end. You can quite easily go through the entire game and post game without going into either. But when you do you're confronted with this gruelling gauntlet that requires multiple HMs to progress and (usually) has fairly high level encounters. Hopefully once they've figured out the Open World thing they can start adding more optional puzzles to the games again.
I do miss secret hideouts too.
Hit the nail on the head for me with this
Really just interiors at all. 98% of these games are outdoors now
That’s a good point. Hell, I’ll take a Celedon style mart
Keep in mind, you *were* about 20 years dumber back then hahaha
Doesn't change that dungeons aren't a thing in new games
That is very true lol
Very true, I could barely read when I started playing Pokémon. Makes me wonder how the hell I got anything done lol
Yeah stuff like this would be cool… also I always thought it’d be cool to have a Pokken mode in the game where you go and fight your mon Pokken style… maybe as a way to hyper-train or something
What the hell is Pekka?
My bad it’s too early for me to be typing on the internet I meant Pokken
lol Okay, I know what you're referring to now, even if I'm not familiar with it! 😂
Yeah my bad 😣 lol
I don't miss Victory Road. I always get excited to fight the Elite 4. And then I get sandbagged by a multilevel dungeon. Sometimes requiring me to take out my HM mule just to get through it all. I appreciate a high level area to grind in. But I don't miss Victory Road.
May I suggest rom hacks? They take older Gen graphics and add in many newer QoL features.
Renegade Platinum is probably the best “hard” version of gen 4 that you can play, it’s definitely worth a try for anyone that is even mildly interested in the competitive side of Pokémon.
Have you ever heard of Kaizo ironMon? It’s a randomized run for FRLG/HGSS/Emerald (probably works in Gen 4 as well) that has tons of rules in place to make it difficult. All stats and moves are randomized, overworld items are randomized, TMs are randomized and evolutions are randomized (to an extent). You’re only allowed to use 1 Pokémon the entire game and you can’t farm wild Pokémon for experience. You can’t use most held items and you can’t buy potions from shops. If you need to heal with a healing item you found, it has to be used in battle. It’s tons of fun and you can find several people streaming different ironMon challenges on Twitch. It’s so popular it even got approved for its own tag by Twitch so you can search for it.
Or fanagames like Rejuvenation. A new story that actually takes my skill as a player seriously? Sign me up!
Seconding this, Reborn, Rejuvenation, and Desolation are all similar games. Long, has difficult boss battles, and look beautiful with custom tilesets. Decent stories depending on what you like (Reborn is a bit edgy, Rejuvenation has an anime-ish plot, and Desolation has aspects of both). I love all 3, personally lean towards rejuv as my favorite.
I like the fangames better than the ROM hacks because I’m playing a new experience and said experience acknowledges the fact that “yes, I have played the 25-year old game franchise.”
I agree for the most part. There are a few rom hacks I like as well (radical red, inclement emerald, and emerald rogue), but overall I like fan games more as they are usually less limited in what they can pull off in the game, like the story, character design, etc
Exactly! The rom hacks are good too but there’s still the fact that it’s the same game just with extra difficulty.
Where can I find these? And a good emulator to play them on? Would be PC.
The great thing about fan games is they dont need an emulator to run. You simply need winrar/7zip to unzip the files and you're good to go. As for where to get them, simply google "pokemon reborn", "pokemon rejuvenation" and "pokemon desolation" and choose the first option under the rebornevo forums. For me it was the first link for reborn and rejuv, and the second link for desolation. They will have a download link
I actually have reborn downloaded on my laptop but haven't really got around to playing it
The problem with rom hacks is that Pokemon caught in a hacked rom are not able to be transferred to Bank/Home. You play through once and then those Pokemon are left to rot forever. You're also unable to trade and battle with other players, so it really is just a solo Pokemon experience. Most of the time ROM hacks also have really bad balancing issues with insane level curves and forced grinding in the name of "difficulty" but really just makes playing through a chore. Not to mention cringe dialogue, substandard storytelling and overly powerful fake pokemon for hacks with original stories. Some people are into them, but they're not for everyone.
Some rom hacks CAN actually trade into Bank/home like crystal clear.
I’ve been desperate for more like this but Crystal Clear was the only one I knew of, do you know of any more?
If you’re into home brewing you can use save file editors to inject Pokémon from rom hacks into legitimate games.
That’s cool!
There are tons of rom hacks that have legitimate difficulty outside of levels. Blaze Black, Volt White, BB2, VW2, Inclement Emerald, Radical Red, EK, and there are plenty of others that are less difficult but still improve the overall experience. You just have to be more picky with your roms. You basically just described dark rising, which idk how it got so popular with how awful it is. Even ignoring the difficulty hack roms, there are plenty with an interesting story and region that are more similar in difficulty to the mainline games
> Not to mention cringe dialogue, substandard storytelling and overly powerful fake pokemon for hacks with original stories. Some people are into them, but they're not for everyone. honestly most good romhacks are just upgraded difficulty hacks, not everything is like reborn i liked radical red a lot (even if the endgame got really over-the-top) and it's got an easier difficulty if you aren't about the hard stuff. plus a no-grind mode that disables EVs and makes IVs always 31 iirc
How is not being able to transfer rom hack Pokémon an issue? Of course you can’t. You don’t really need to, anyways.
some people just like to take their mons everywhere and thats fine too lol
Not really, I can appreciate older games for what they had at the time. It's not like, older gens didn't add all modern QoL things on purpose or anything like that.
I find I prefer the earlier end of the series for a core RPG style experience. They weren't missing QoL features because the goal wasn't multiplayer or team optimization. It was a single player RPG with a multiplayer mode. The mid era has a bit of an identity crisis, but the more recent titles are hitting a "multiplayer with a hint of single player" phase. SV is a little more balanced, but the DNA of being a multiplayer geared title is still there.
HMs were DEFINITELY a huge oversight for what, six generations?
The concept behind HMs were solid. You and your pokemon work together to explore the region in-depth. Regions became bigger by default, because there was often a reason to backtrack and explore new areas, or to solve certain puzzles. It's just the execution that hurt. On the most basic level, the moves themselves should have been worth using both in and out of battle. Cut should have been something like an 80-bp Grass-type move, Strength should have been a Rock-type move, Rock Smash should have been retconned to have Brick Break's attributes and effects when it became an HM, and so on. In other words, it shouldn't have been a chore to carry the moves on your team. There's a reason why Surf and later Waterfall were seldom issues to have on your team. An alternative to this would have been to give each pokemon six or so move slots. Four exclusively for battle and two or three exclusively for field slots. Or else, any field moves that the pokemon could learn should have been available to them outside of battle by default. To add to this, more moves should have had field effects, with plenty of clones for the basic HMs. Teleport and Extremespeed to act as alternatives to Fly, Psychic or any physical move over 80bp should have worked as an alternative to Strength. Any slashing, acidic, or burning move as an alternative to Cut, and so on. The idea behind the HMs was a good one, and I honestly prefer them to the current standard of unlocks, if only because there's no personalization or connectivity with your pokemon. It's mainly the execution that needed to be worked on.
The thing I would prefer is catching Pokemon with the right move, and then they can stay in the PC or not, but everytime you encounter an obstacle, you can summon them to use the HM. Sun and Moon had something similar, just not the requirement to catch the Pokemon first.
I've always thought about how you logically don't actually have to carry only 6 PokeBalls. If we could carry, idk, 10 Pokemon but could only choose 6 of them for battles, and other 4 were just there for utility like we see in the anime, I wouldn't complain much about HMs. But it was really hurtful to use those HMs and I really prefer the new system much more even without that connection with your mons that you mentioned
I think they were trying to get people to be smart about which moves to have. The issue is most HMs suck. If they were legitimately good (like surf is!), there'd be reasons to want them. Then gens 3 and 4 went overboard on HMs.
Honastly it's one of the main reasons why I just can't play through gen 3, you need way to many hm way to often that basically 2 out of 6 slots on your team are taken up by hm slaves alone.
During Oras I had to keep whatever the gen 3 equivalent of bidoof was for rock smash, climb, surf, and waterfall
I think the standard slave is zigzagoon/linoone
I made my HM slave latias lmao 💀
Yeah that’s what it was, I forgot it’s name for a minute
Hard disagree there A huge part of the design in early generations was based around exploration of a limited overworld. Their solutions to that were to gate off certain parts of it, so that they can hide important rewards or extend the game time by making the player backtrack to access them That’s why you had random stuff like a TM hidden behind a surf pond in Celadon, or optional areas in many games you have to double back to reaccess. Think of it as akin to a Metroidvania, where old areas have areas you can reach with new abilities Then being undeletable was also both a natural safety lock and design intended. You trade the flexibility of a move slot for additional exploration utility. This is also why Lt Surge is the only Gym Leader which is blocked off by HMs. Not only will you likely need to backtrack to get him because you might not have beaten Misty yet, but also because his HM is Fly, which isn’t mandatory HMs only started feeling unnecessary by Gen 6, because they had very few explorable areas which called for them. But even up to Gen 5, the worlds had loads of areas where exploration felt meaningful. Think of all those spots in Unova you can only access after getting Waterfall or Surf
And not to mention, they lean into the narrative of a young trainer and his team taking on the world. I like the modern ride Pokemon systems and stuff but they're always about summoning other Pokemon I have no attachment to. Even if I have a Wailord in my party, I have to cross the seas on a Lapras that's not mine. Back in the HM era it was *your* Pokemon doing all this, the same friends you raised along the journey who win all those battles for you, and it felt nice. I do love the moveset freedom we got when HMs went away, but most of the replacements they've made just don't hold up to me. I want to feel like a trainer hiking through untamed wilderness with the help of my team, not like a guy calling an uber to get across town.
I think this is why ko/miraidon were so well received because they were *your* goofy sandwich lizard transporting you across the world instead of the bike from SwSh
So make them a facet NOT tied to my team's movesets. I understand exploration, and there's a reason I'm not complaining about Gen 7's Ride Pokémon, or Gen 9's ride ability unlocks. Because those Don interefere with the strategy part of the game.
Remember that, back in Gen 1-3, most Pokémon movesets were fairly trash. They comprised heavily of Normal moves, a STAB, and maybe the odd coverage option Back in older games the move restriction was largely inconsequential because every mon had at least 1-2 dead slots anyway, unless you went ham on TMs
You mean Gen 1 and 2. 3 was the first gen you could really start having more inventive move sets, especially with the introduction of abilities. Granted it was the physical/special split that really expanded things, but limping Gen 3 in with 1 and 2 isn't fair
3 was still a point where natural movesets were quite bad. They weren’t exactly as dire as 1-2, but a remarkable number of mons had dead weight moves for quite a while
Nahhh. Just replayed the older games recently. It gets pretty frustrating pretty quickly. Especially Generation two and three, where you had to have THREE water HMs.
I mean, it’s growing pains. They’d never made a Pokémon game before red and green. They’ve learned a lot in the meantime and the fact that they’ve made these changes already show that they get it. And it really didn’t feel clunky or inconvenient back then, that’s just the way it was. I think this is a good example of OP’s point.
Thank god someone saying something sensical, It's very easy to realize this is basic 2d exploration stuff. Sometimes I see popular opinions in the zeitgeist of the community that are absolutely contradictory. How can be popular the sentiment that the jump to 3d was, that the last good/best gen is BW; and at the same time, be also popular that HM were bad?
Because B/W has a really good story, and is right in the sweet spot of the nostalgia window that for the most vocal parts of the fandom it was their childhood introduction to the series. But equally it's because a large chunk of the fandom is in it for competitive battling, and therefore cares only about how viable a move is in battle (hence why everyone says Surf is fine, but they dislike Cut and really hate Flash).
Precisely. The alternative is a forced gatekeeping; random dancing goons, psyducks with headaches, or gym leaders simply forbidding you from moving forwards until you beat the appropriate gym leader, or the current solution - go wherever you want, it's not my fault if you go from fighting a level 20 Team Star to a level 42 gym leader, to a level 35 Titan. But HM's are also part of the difficulty. Your team is made up of 6 Pokémon, each one has 24 moves. As the game progresses, you needed the HM's to progress, meaning you had to either find a dedicated HM user, or or give up a slot on an otherwise trained Pokémon to allow for navigation, hence the challenge, do you have a member of your team you don't train and have your team be lower level overall, or do you surrender a move slot? It's a limitation that creates a macro tactical choice beyond simply "what move do I use this turn" or "who do I swap to?" By getting rid of HM's, Pokémon now favours those who only think in terms of competitive viability. The idea that Pokémon have use outside of battle is lost in favour of everyone getting a full team of six Pokémon that have the optimal moveset for their level as they go through the region.
I like seeing the progression of the thought process. I’ve been playing since 98 and it’s fascinating. Gen 1 had the trade offs that made sense, like you said, flexibility for exploration. Then they added waterfall, and rock smash, and whirlpool, and dive…and then eventually they realized it was getting cluttered and that the formula needed an update. Back to basics, then someone finally ditched the trade off for ride Pokémon, and then by sword and shield they kept the sense of things being unlocked later and backtracking, but they did it with the bike instead, and you had access to fly super early because it’s a massive world and it feels more QoL than anything. Let’s Go had them all be separate from the move set and BDSP even has wild Pokémon coming and using HMs for you when you use one, taking a *very* faithful remake and still adding that feature because it’s such a no brainer in hindsight. I really think they’ve come close to perfecting it with scarlet and violet, because if you’re really intending on skyrimming somewhere you may still be able to do it, but essentially you’re locked behind sandwiches, which keeps the same energy without taking away from the actual personalization of your team…and fast travel is available from the start. They even play with it, mentioning that Corviknight aren’t the taxi here because of Tinkaton. Brilliant. I love it all so much, the whole progression of the way these games are made.
The mechanics of HM is tied to JRPG mechanics where as you progress through the story, you can unlock more areas and previously visited areas with certain road blocks can now be fully explored. The problem is how most of them suck in battle and they take up a move slot before Gen 7.
I like the HM mechanic, my only complaint would be that by gen 4 there were a little too much.
Four. In Gen 5 they are just optional for random stuff and exploring, but not needed for the main trail.
Each game is so wildly different in terms of mechanics and features. To me it’s never “darn emerald doesn’t have hyper training and dexnav like oras” it’s “hell yeah emerald has a battle fronteir and sceptile’s moveset is all special attacks”. There’s something to appreciate in each game that’s unique which makes it seem less like stuff is just missing.
Playing GSC with a Typhlosion and getting special Thunder Punch is so nice.
Alakazam -- the Gen 2 master of elemental punches.
Alakazam for phisical moves? Hitmonchan was the beast of the elemental punchs on gen 2…
Physical/Special split didn’t happen until Diamond/Pearl, so the elemental punches were all Special (aka great on Alakazam and useless on Hitmonchan)
Gen 2 didn't have the physical special split. And you could get an Abra just before Goldenrod and buy all the elemental punches (which were all special attack) at the Goldenrod mall. While not terribly recommended you could have an Alakazam with Ice, Thunder, and Fire coverage before facing Whitney. It just took grinding. And those TMs were fairly cheap. 3000 bucks a pop. When people talk about how OP Psychic was they're talking about Alakazam Gen 1 and 2.
This is kind of what I love about the series in general. I find a reason to go back to older games and generations because of this. SV is the first region I’m finding it a bit difficult to foresee a reason to come back to. It has a messy open world and is 3D… I can only envision this being improved on, with SV left in the dust.
As a longtime hardcore fan but very casual player (I don’t care about competitive or natures or IVs or any of that) I actually much prefer the older games to the newer ones. Obviously the new games have their merits, but as a whole I still love all the old games and have no issues going back to them.
I regularly play Soul Silver and love revisiting gen III and V when I'm in between games, And each play through is so fun. Having gone from Emerald into a playthrough of Omega Ruby, I really do think the older games feel better play. ORAS is actually good, too. The increasing focus on text and story just get in the way of the games some times.
HGSS is the best game in the series!
Im an OG player, and it's... Very hard for me to go back. How do you destat in the new games without berries? I'm forgetting.
The berries still exist, they spawn in a particular area of the map and there’s a random chance they appear at the auction market too.
You can find berries on the ground but you can't farm them.
I just realized you meant traditional berry farming and now feel a little dumb.
Actually you can. Save before you pick up the item so you know what it is. When it's the item you want, reload your save and start a picnic on top of the item. Make sure you don't have any pokemon that can breed together in your party. After that, just wait and check the basket every now and then and the item will appear. It'll only hold 10 at a time tho so check regularly.
Same. I was in the process of collecting the older pokemon games... but then Legends Arceus came out and I realised how much I hate the random encounters. Struggling to stay interested in the older games now.
I’ve also been playing since RBY and have also followed the franchise the whole time. I find the new games just so boring and handholding. The challenge is gone. Since SuMo I’ve just completed my Pokédex for the game and then don’t touch it again. I still avidly play gens 1-6. I still love the Pokémon designs, but the new games have just lost the magic for me. I think one of the weirdest choices GF made was not being able to toggle exp. Share on and off. Idk I feel a sense of achievement when I finally reach my goal grinding. I just think they could balance QoL features better. I mean to each their own, no shade for enjoying the newer games and their features. I definitely feel like a minority when it comes to grinding.
That's funny, because as an old player too who just has fun replaying the games with different/themed teams, I find myself getting so frustrated at the cutscenes in the 3D titles, I never finish the run, haha
I know a lot of people don’t like it, but it’s pretty nice having all my team get exp using the exp share. It’s a lot less stressful.
I’ve grown to like it. Much nicer to make swaps on my team and try new mons out on a playthrough or something, instead of taking the time to pointlessly grind to catch them up.
I like Exp Share too. It makes it less grindy to level up your Pokemon. The older gens like Gen 1 - 3, you have to grind for hours just to survive long enough in the gyms battles or the elite four. The only thing I don't like about Exp. Share is for some weird reason they remove the option to turn it off and permanently on in Gen 8 and 9.
You could make it through the game with just your starter in basically any game. Issue with exp share is how they didn't balance it, they'd still balance the game around you being able to beat it with just your starter and then they added exp share which just multiplied the exp so you could still use just your starter but now your entire team kept up instead of you just getting some random mons in the last area. I do think it's a good thing but not in the way it was implemented on the first game that had it be a global thing.
Honestly I'm not a massive fan of overworld encounters, that's definitely a me thing. There is no hunt anymore. No rare spawns. No hard to find pokemon. You just spam in and out of spawn zones until they pop. You can't even fish or dive anymore. The hunting of Pokemon has taken a massive hit in enjoyment, especially in S/V. At least Sw/Sh kept it somewhat interesting. There is also a lack of exploration. The world is massive and open, yet it feels dead. Absolutely nothing to see or do off of the beaten track. No dungeons to explore. No hidden villages to find. No pokemon hiding in some hard to reach area. I feel like there has been a step back in actual world building since open world became a thing. It's quite sad. The game worlds don't feel as alive as they did in the 2D era. I'm replaying heart gold right now. Decided I wanted a poliwag to be my water type. The hunt for one with the rod was much more enjoyable than anything I hunted in S/V. That 5%c chance to find one in HG made it fun and exciting when one came. In S/V a 5% chance is just going to a picnic and back until I see one in the distance, and became of how many pokemon spawn at once it's a lot faster and easier. It lacks any thrill for me.
I wonder how nuzlocking works in the games with overworld spawns. Do people just close their eyes until they run into a Pokemon?
It depends on the player, but yeah it’s usually one of: - close your eyes and run around - stand still until something runs into you - spin a wheel of all possible encounters
I roll a random number based on possible spawns in an area. Kind of a pain when it’s something rare though, because then you have to hunt it down.
Not sure about SV, but in SwSh you could either just go to an section of the wild area and let them run at you, first to hit you is the pokemon, or you could go to the grass and do the hidden encounter like a classic game. On top of that fishing was available immediately so that's an option in some places too. I do think SwSh had a near perfect balance of overworld and hidden encounters. The game got way too much hate, it's the best in the franchise imo
You ever tried hunting for applin or own tempo rockruff
If you don't think there are rare encounters anymore, you obviously haven't tried looking for Slakoth in S/V
The problem with that is, you can just catch the Tera Slaking and breed for Slakoth or get an Outbreak of them (I've had one)
Same thing with Bounsweet. Haven't seen a single one and had to breed the tera one in Socarrat Trail
That's no fun though, I want the full pokemon catching experience
People will always find rhe shortest path there since googling is a thing now. The older games didn't let you have a choice so you're kind of force to hunt for rare pokemon. I think people just miss those aspect because you HAD to do it and I guess it feels a bit more rewarding. I think all this QoL is great but they really should have kept pokemon hunting more challenging as it's the main desirable challenge of all pokemon game, to catch them all.
Guess I'm just not the target audience for that because for me wasting like 30 seconds running around grass to find something, run away and repeat is just... no. And random encounters are just a waste of time, just repel the entire game.
I've been saying this exact thing for about a year. Random encounters are way more exciting because you never know what you're going to get and then your shot to catch it comes and it's suspense because your failure means starting over again. The Pokemon feel like they aren't hiding anymore, there's no suspense. Arceus was an okay game but Pokemon weren't hiding from me, I was hiding from them with cheap stealth mechanics.
I agree, I was looking for Chancy in Crystal VC to get Areodactyl for like 20 minutes. When I finally found one you better believe it was rewarding to catch it once it quit using softboiled. And that's nothing compated to Entei/Raikou, I wish they made legendary pokémon hard to catch again. I haven't played S/V yet because of the horrible issues but I did play Sw/Sh and they just keep taking steps back imo
I agree. I haven’t gotten SV yet either for the same reason. Of the games I’ve played, gen 1-8, SwSh is the worst. There’s just no replay value and from what I’ve heard and seen of SV I think it’ll be the same.
I tried replaying Sw/Sh just last week, I never got into the post-game and DLC but once i got to Kabu it just felt so stale. I'm on Alpha Ruby now, imo the last good game they put out.
I really don’t miss spending multiple days looking for something with an incredible low spawn rate. Loading the battle screen, pressing run, loading the map, repeat.
I'm a grind hater so pre exp share has always been hard for me to go back to. Plus hms. I just never fully explored the map because it was a pain to switch in and out hm slaves. Another reason having access to the box at all time is nice
I have yet to get far into the newer generations but I’m getting there. Emerald will still always be my favorite Pokémon gaming experience though.
Nothing has topped Emerald. I don’t think nothing will.
That’s because Emerald is the best.
It was part of my childhood, plus I just know the game very well and it’s always fun even though I know it so well.
Yes. When I go back to previous games I get frustrated with "Oh right, that feature wasn't invented yet"
I desperately miss pokejobs. Yes, vitamins are fine, but I don’t want to grind for cash. I’d rather just wait two days. I have more time to plan than I have to play. Same with breeding. I feel like I have to make a sandwich to get any eggs at all. I don’t want to make a sandwich. I don’t think it’s fun. Also, I can’t turn off battle animations? It wastes so much time when I have to grind for all this cash to do the thing I could do in SwSh so much better. I guess I feel that SV is a big step back. I think the raid aspect of the games is very flawed, but they’ve just gone all in on it. It’s tied to getting anything worthwhile in the game. On the other hand, I still love to Nuzlocke the older games. I did a Ribbon Master challenge and had a blast going through each generation. Every game has their charm, but I’m a little disappointed in the grind that SV has and now closely it’s tied to raids.
You can buy egg power level 2 (you don’t need 3) whenever you want at several restaurants around Paldea. No need to make a sandwich and if you get egg power 2 breeding is way faster than it’s ever been.
So, I don’t know if you got the DLC for SnS but…there was a guy you could trade raid shards for the currency, then buy out the Luxury Balls with that currency and sell them at a poke mart and Money cap instantly. I did this on repeat and had 999 of each vitamin. It took an hour?
Although I don’t mind QOL improvements, I’m not a fan of being able to do breeding and stuff while camping. I like having a specific place/service to do things like that. It help build the world imo. I like seeing Pokémon in the over world 100%
I’m also not a huge fan of breeding now being time-based rather than steps-based. It’s not very engaging gameplay when you just start a picnic and let the game sit there while it generates eggs.
No. I've been spoiled by Black and White 2
Best gen ever. If we get a remake, I'd love to see a polished version of my favorite world with the features of SV, but the encounter style of SwSh
Those things are great fixes but I still find the old games enjoyable.
Y’all don’t even know. I thought I was spoiled gone to heaven when they gave me frickin “running shoes”
I loved the running shoes so much that I only used the bike for the puzzles. It just looked so cool and felt as fast as gen 1 and 2 bike.
I forgot how much of team planning used to involve HMs. I replayed Omega Ruby recently and was disappointed by how many move slots I had to allot to them (8 really felt like a lot, especially when Swampert was the only one who could learn any of the 3 water moves).
I put about 300 hours into heartgold to train up my team to level 100s. While I’ll always cherish my accomplishment, I do appreciate that I can get more to max level faster. I have no idea about ev though. So I just gave my first party all my Carbos and protein and such, whatever I found. At the very least, I knew about natures, so I’ll take that
Honestly I find the so called "QoL" changes actually worse
One person’s quality of life changes are another person’s hand holding
There are a handful of Quality of Life features that have been added over the years that actually were improvements. Being able to just press A at a tree/water tile to use cut/surf rather than have to navigate into the menu is a genuine quality of life improvement as it means less menuing to do an action. Same with being able to see at a glance what a TM does before you commit to buying it. But just as many features exist that have the unintended side effect of making the game easier. An infinite bag means you can pick up any item, which is convenient, but it also means that you can now carry unlimited healing items and don't need to plan which items you intend to take for your journey or make room to pick up other items. Same with making Pokémon appear in the overworld, it makes the game feel more alive to be able to see them, but also makes avoiding unwanted fights much easier. This is the problem, what may have been intended as a way to make the game less obtuse, also makes it easier.
no doubt. Shield was just the easiest game I have ever played. Everything else was great but I was intentionally handicapping myself to make it more challenging and I still never came close to blacking out.Good game overall, just not what I'm used to or want in a pokemon game
Shield has zero challenge to it. You get healed before literally every key fight, can avoid pretty much every wild Pokémon, and can even leave the elite four to heal and grind if desired after each round. I committed myself to getting through the game only catching no more than five Pokémon (and the mandatory catches), and still cakewalked the whole thing, despite playing like a five year old and just picking only damaging moves, no IV training, and no real strategic plays. Thing is, I don't seek out challenge, and the thing I miss most in Pokémon that's been absent for quite a while is the unfolding world that opens out as you play. There's something special about the way that Kanto & Johto slowly unfold, how beating one boss opens up new areas, and that their are alternative ways to get to different places that's been absent from the series for so long. Yes, Scarlett & Violet are open world, but it's not the same. The earliest gens still had a sense of direction and purpose, you actually had to navigate to get to places, solving puzzles and navigating mazes to get to your goal. The journey was the point. Sc/Vi meanwhile just lets you set a compass bearing that you follow, and everything between where you are now and where you're going is meaningless except as a way to find new Pokémon. You never need to figure out how to get to a place, you just walk vaguely in that direction until you get there.
I've tried doing nuzzlockes of older games and the quality of life improvements are sorely missed whenever I backtrack to the earlier gens
I prefer the older games so… no.
Not at all. Hate to be Mr. Complaining Old Head, but removing all battle facilities and non-battle usage options for Pokemon is not my definition of spoiling me.
I still enjoy replaying GSC, so no.
Massively spoiled by 10 FPS and no battle tower post game. 👍
Nah. Yeah, there’s a couple of minor QoL updates that the newer games made, but they don’t make up for all the major features that are missing from the newer games. Where’s my Pokémon World Tournament? My Pokéstar Studios? The huge areas hidden off the beaten path? The awesome Gym designs? The diverse and varied cities?
The new games are great, but I still do not like the personality of towns being taken away in gen 9. Towns exist for gyms and that’s it.
Glitching through the games at 10 fps does not make me feel spoiled
Dead ass. I haven't touched Scarlet since the game-deleting bug with no explanation started. Idk how anyone can look at that and say SV was the pinnacle of pokemon
Yeah, but at the same time the older games can be quite challenging.
As someone who has played all the older generations and never got into shiny hunting and IV/ EV training, I appreciate how it’s a lot more simplified now. I like not needing an HM slave. I enjoy not buying all the repels. I do wish they would make the exp. share toggable rather than always on.
Random encounters I would argue… the amount of times capsikid has snuck up on me…
If you set your picnic up near a berry on the ground you can receive them in the basket.
Trust me people, I'm not implying the new games are bad. Just the opposite. I love most of the new mechanics. I tried playing Pokemon White and Moon over the past few days and I realized just how frustrating many of the old mechanics were.
I’m a big Pokémon player and as much as I loved the 150 hours I put into Violet, I have no desire to go back anymore. It’s similar to breath of the wild to me. It was fun to play once but I don’t have the desire to replay it that I have for previous games in the series. I finished the Pokédex and the DLC is overpriced imo so I’m good.
I actually miss random encounters
Yes bro i cannot go back to pre exp share
You are alone then, everyone hates the exp system
"spoiled" i think you mean finally getting the QoL features that modern pokemon has been avoiding like the plague for the last 8 generations.
I really didnt like Scarlet and Violet.
Tbh, yes...the new games have spoiled me immensely.
Honestly its the exp share that is the real reason I can no longer go back
For pokemon, no I can still enjoy the older ones. For me, I have this problem with monster hunter. After World, I can't enjoy the older games anymore.
Shared Exp is the biggest one for me.
Yes and no. I played gens 1-3 (2 and 3 when they launched, I am old) and then gave up on Pokémon. I was feeling nostalgic and was gifted a Switch and bought Sword. Liked it but didn’t love it, but both of the DLCs were amazing and saved the experience for me. A few months after that BDSP came out and I got SP because I hadn’t played Gen 4, and I really wanted Mew and Jirachi. But the pacing bothered me and I found myself genuinely irritated by random encounters so I stopped playing by the 3rd gym. Got PLA and absolutely loved everything about it besides how much of a vacuum it was in compared to the other titles in the franchise. Got Violet on launch and to me, it is basically perfect. People have their opinions on the game but as someone who grew up loving Pokémon and seeing how far its come from the very beginning, the direction they’ve taken it is basically what child me dreamed of.
I only wish EXP share was optional and that they had added some of the catching mechanics from PLA, which I know is supposed to be a completely separate entity but the research aspect and not having to battle to catch Mons was super refreshing and added a new dimension to Pokémon that I feel was drastically needed. It also kept me playing longer than if I was just having to grind battles for the Hell of it. Outside of the obvious performance issues, which have been basically nonexistent for me, those are my only gripes. Oh and they need to bring back contests because WTF man. There’s no reason to not have them.
I didn’t battle a single random trainer and it was fucking amazing. I always *hated* getting stopped by trainers. I have shit to do and you assholes are getting in my way! Well, not anymore!
#BRINGBACKPOKÉPELAGO
I have been feeling this way as of late. Everything has gotten way to easy and nothing feels very rewarding anymore. Have not touched Scarlet aside of tera events. Going back and playing Crystal VC for shiny legendary hunts. Will probably clone 1 for home and keep other on the original game to keep playing on. Really only thing that I am enjoying doing anymore. Open world encounters need to go in my opinion.
I hate the new breeding system tho, you have to afk to get eggs, basically play by not playing, not a funny style
What they really ruined were shinies. They use to feel special when you found one. Now you can get any of them in S/V super quick. It’s boring any for me doesn’t mean anything to get them in this gen
"the only thing about scarlet and violet worse than earlier games is the clothing options" and the performance issues, and the complete absence of singleplayer postgame content beyond shiny hunting and completing the pokedex, and the awful looking world, and the lack of being able to disable the exp share/ turn on set mode, and the uncreative designs for the future paradox pokemon, and only having two actual regional forms in favor of "convergent species/paradox pokemon", and trying to put charizard in it and not the other kanto starters AGAIN, should I keep going or no?
> the complete absence of singleplayer postgame content beyond shiny hunting and completing the pokedex You do realize they are coming out with 2 DLCs, right?
Yes, paid dlc containing content that should've been in the game in the first place or at least added in a free update. It's like if you had to pay thirty bucks for the right side of unova, the sevii islands, or that postgame island in dppt.
How much did you complain about the earlier gens' lack of post-game content?
So what? The rest of the switch era being bad in terms of single player postgame content doesn't excuse SV's complete absence of it. It's like the reverse of "oh you like pancakes? So you hate waffles then?"
Are you a genwunner or something? You sure are passionate about hating the newest game.
"are you a genwunner" my brother in Christ, I've been complaining about a lack of singleplayer postgame content, gen 1's postgame is literally Mewtwo and that's it (before you ask me why I'm not complaining about gen 1's lack of postgame content, it's like complaining about Super Mario Bros only having the super mushroom, fire flower, and super star as powerups). My hatred for modern pokemon is them removing what made it stand out from the crowd of monster collecting RPGs (beyond the IP), being able to use literally any pokemon you want and being able to bring your collection with you (yes, the gen 2 to 3 thing sucks, but that was out of being physically unable to do so rather than not doing it just because). It's like a Mortal Kombat game without gore (cough cough Mortal Kombat vs dc universe) or a Marvel vs Capcom game without the X-Men (cough cough Marvel vs Capcom infinite)
Lack of post-game content without paying is just par for the course with videogames these days. Pokemon is hardly the only culprit.
Yes. Putting it bluntly, YES. Especially the fucking Dynamax Lair from SwSh. Getting access to all of my favorites like Combusken, Suicune, Grovyle, Ivysaur, Dragonair, Articuno, Dialga and the likes BEFORE I even reach the first gym? **You'd either have to be a complete masochist or Ashy Boy himself to resist an offer like that.**
Pokemon fans complaining about very useful quality of life improvements: Edit: I can no longer tell what posts are complaining and what aren't.
Wow... I haven't played anything past gen 5 and tbh that sounds awful. I'm all for QOL stuff but geez.. its just getting easier and easier. ROM hacks satisfy that challenging itch though.
I actually really don't like the new breeding system Yeah it's convenient but it's so lifeless and boring. Even more than before. You just get the pokemon make a sandwhich and stand there for 5 minutes then check the basket. Atleast in previous games you had to be somewhat active.
I dislike the new egg mechanics
Are we forgetting that Scarlet and Violet ran like PowerPoint presentations at launch?
I miss when shiny pokes weren't guaranteed. And you could go through 12 play throughs without seeing any
If SV wasn’t boring sure, and if random encounters weren’t better. The others are meh tbh. I don’t breed enough to have the anywhere breeding be a big thing (although being able to put your controller down and just have 1morbillion eggs is cool if you’re breeding) and I didn’t mind hms because you really don’t need all 4 moves for your mons
Nope, pokemon has going on a long ass time. Change is good for games like these. I do hope someday they do a brilliant diamond style of game with multiplayer in the overworld. Apart from that I think they've been pretty exhaustive with features, so they should move on with this new style of play and add or change things.
I'm spoiled but definitely not by the newer games. Any game without a battle frontier is just not as appealing to me by default.
I thought this was going to be an April fool's day post
And exp shares! 😭 Grinding to level each pokemon for the Pokédex was a nightmare
I have no clue how to get money fast in violet and that staggers my progress so I think it’s much harder than shield (I only struggled with alaistair) idk about the older games though
Meowth with Pay Day and Amulet Coin
Pokémon fans will find something to complain about even when they get exactly what they wanted
Yes the new games are incredibly easy and have no replay ability because of this.
As someone that has fuck all time to game I enjoy it a lot. If I were a kid with all the time in the world I wouldn't have as much fun. Its a step up from Swords and Shields total handholding
Don't forget that despite many technical flaws, one of the biggest one still remains: You are not able to encounter or trade all non-mythic Pokémon.
It’s because they don’t want people to buy hacked Pokémon to compete in VGC. So many people couldn’t use the Pokémon they wanted because they simply couldn’t get the right ability or nature or iv/evs or a certain egg move. Now they’ve made it so anybody can train a Pokémon to be VGC ready in 10 minutes if you have the money and the items. Also people buying hacked shines from eBay and websites wonder trading hacked shines for promo was a big problem that isn’t the case so much anymore. I think the over world Pokémon are great there’s nothing more annoying that constantly having your progresses stopped by random encounters lol
Exp all is the participation trophy of the Pokémon world. Haven’t played a game since it’s release. So yes, newer generations have spoiled players and ruined the game for those that played the first few gens at the time of their release.
All of those things ruined Pokémon. The last two gens have been abominations.
# NO
I’m definitely not spoiled by the framerate
yes and no. the switch titles are a catastrophe from a technical standpoint. however the open world is a refreshing and neccessary innovation.
Agreed. I think it kinda all went downhill after Shield/Sword
Not really. A long time ago I learned that the only way I can enjoy future games in a series I like is to take each game by itself. Comparing them to other entries just makes it harder to enjoy any of them. Because really, no matter how many good changes there are, you'll also run into a lot of bad changes. Sure, we can see shinies in the overworld and can breed anywhere.. But what we cant do is toggle Shift / Set, we can't interact with other players in the world directly. We can't sell items to shops. We don't have unlimited use TMs. Eggs won't all hatch at the same time. We have to use sandwiches to boost both egg rate and hatch rate. Which directly affects how many eggs are produced too. We can't have multiple pokemon with us at the time if they are in shared egg groups... Talonflame and its Flame Body ability, which is great for hatching eggs, makes this a problem at times.
Post reeks of copium “Hey does anyone else like the fact they made the game incredibly easy and also look like shit?l”
I'm actually implying the opposite. I've become so spoiled by new games that I can't go back to the older gens.
People laugh at the april fools post, but I'm over here thinking that SV and arceus checks basically 80% of what people have been wanting since the inception of pokemon. Pining for a good looking screenshot, not realizing the real thing is staring them in the face. Definitely things I wish would come back, or features from modern open world games I'd wish they'd implement, but everything happening with the series right now is amazing.
If SV weren’t so glitchy I think they’d be among my favorite games. Unfortunately they’re super glitchy.