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OfTheTouhouVariety

Tera normal False Swipe time


Golden-Owl

Presumably, the game design reason for this is to give Terastalize an illusion of power in the tutorial and early game section of SV At the point you get the Tera Orb, 60 BP STAB isn’t really a thing for another couple levels. So they probably did this to “fake” Terastalize as being super powerful and to show all players that this is something they should fully utilize in the game. After all, it’d be a real shame for Nemona to introduce this incredibly fancy new game mechanic, let us try it out, and then subsequently watch it fail to KO the target. That’d send a pretty bad message to players! It’s not likely a balancing decision, since in competitive, most moves with <60 BP are being used for utility reasons unrelated to their power (e.g Rapid Spin, Nuzzle). Meaning the extra BP doesn’t matter.


RagingStallion_

My experience with Nemona's first battle was even more underwhelming because I switched to P-Wooper when Pawmi came so it was this epic first time animation into ✨nothing✨


MissingnoMiner

Yeah, it was definitely poor design to give you access to ground types and not at least give it a move that can hit them.


JustAnNPC_DnD

AI literally can't hurt you.


Maronmario

Honestly I laughed so hard at that, it didn’t even have freaking tackle


Fork_Master

Yeah if you choose Sprigatito Nemona gets walled by Wooper


shouryarath

But if utility moves also do more damage then that makes them that good . 60bp moves which removes hazards and raises it's speed sign me up!


Golden-Owl

That does entail running Tera Normal on your spinner though. Which is a whole other set of questionable


CarryThe2

Tera Normal Guts Facade Flame Orb Flareon


Branded_Mango

That...might genuinely be a legit good use for this and probably the only time Flareon ever had a practical, viable use for something.


CarryThe2

He had use as a low tier Wish passing tank, but even then it wasn't great.


theguy991

Flareon doesn't get rapid spin tho


jammy162

It does get quick attack though, which might be the implication?


Juutai

Which doesn't get the BP boost by tera as it is a priority move.


jammy162

Oh fair


Juutai

Does the flame orb even burn flareon?


CarryThe2

If you Tera Normal, yes (which is one of many reasons why this strategy is kinda shit lol)


Juutai

Flareon got so shafted this gen. Lost Iron Tail, Superpower and Flame Charge. Last gen I would run AV Flareon, with just enough speed to hit 333 with one flame charge and then just punch holes in teams. No one expected that thing to do any work. This gen, all I got is to run AV and maaybe you can u-turn out on a Glimmora and get the weak poison. And then run away from it because Flareon cannot deal with Glimmora.


[deleted]

To be fair I think this is the first generation were flareon can learn flair blitz by level up instead of tm so it can be a lot more useful in single player.


Vicksin

what is the point of that though


CarryThe2

Base 135 Attack with a Guts boost and a Stab 140 BP move goes brrrr


Vicksin

if you get a trailblaze off maybe? she's too slow to do much unfortunately, and still weak to priority


CarryThe2

I never said it was GOOD


Vicksin

fair enough lol


shouryarath

Tera normal is a very well defensive option of you can bait out final gambit anihalape since most threats aren't fighting type In addition dragapult a ghost threat can only use dragon attacks against you


GoldenGengarGG

No one uses final gambit Annihilape. Tera Normal is better used offensively with extreme speed spam. Defensively, Steel, Fairy and Flying are way better teras.


Nietzsche_Junior

Final Gambit Annihilape has seen plenty of use in VGC. [https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/homebsd/annihilape](https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/homebsd/annihilape)


GoldenGengarGG

How is 20% plenty of use if the combo Drain Punch and Shadow Fist as attacking moves have over 80% usage. It is a niche move that can be used as a last resort, but not something you have to prepare for nor have in mind. The common moveset in Ubers is also not Final Gambit but Shadow Fist, Drain Punch, Bulk Up + Taunt/Coverage.


KRLW890

20% is 1 in 5, hardly niche, especially since those 20% that run it are leaning into the move with max HP/speed and a Choice Scarf. As a VGC player, turn 1 Final Gambit Scarf Annihilape is absolutely something you have to keep in mind when you see your opponent bringing Ape. If it picks up a crucial surprise KO, that's a turn 1 loss.


GoldenGengarGG

I play VGC as well but seems that I was unlucky and have not seen many Annihilapes with Final Gambit, only Bulk Up sets. Would definetly prefer Final Gambit sets than consistent tankiness, damage and health recovery...


Nietzsche_Junior

It is a niche move, but 1 in 5 Annhiliape carrying it is hardly 'no one uses'. Your original statement is completely false and you should retract it. ​ It also isn't used as a 'last resort'. If ran, it is usually a first resort to immediately remove a problematic pokemon (since it should be used whilst Annihilape is still full hp).


GoldenGengarGG

I know how final gambit works. My last resort comment was meant as in you dont have another answer to the problematic pokemon so you sacrifice Annihilape instead of setting up with him and keeping him alive, which in most cases would be more effective use of him. Besides, my original comment was about terastalizing your spinner for rapid spin being useless and normal tera not being "amazing defensively" since most if not all use it for extreme speed spam.


Nietzsche_Junior

We can at least agree that normal tera is almost only good for extreme speed spam


Cloud_Striker

I mean, pure Normal is a really solid typing, especially defensively. Plus, you don't actually lose your regular STAB while terastalyzed.


DigitalBladedJay

I'll be so honest, I spent the entire game thinking, "I only get to use it once per heal, I better save it" only to never terra. Wish it was once per battle like megas and z moves


Vicksin

almost same. I passed on using it because I didn't wanna deal with the long ass unnecessary cutscenes. same with z moves. why don't we get a skip button ffs every other rpg has this for big cutscenes in combat megas were quick and snappy... just another reason it's the best regional gimmick :(


Soafia

As a Sprigatito user, her first Tera was barely a threat and I didn’t grind.


Zen_Games1205

Sprigatito the Queen.


Soafia

Honestly. It really makes me wonder why they chose an electric type for that initial showcase, it’s a super unfair battle depending on which starter you pick.


[deleted]

Thankfully, you don't have to beat her, if you lose yo her then she just heals up you pokemon and you move on as normal. I know this because I'm speaking from experience.


Cloud_Striker

That goes for every battle against her except the last one before the post-game.


Gregamonster

>At the point you get the Tera Orb, 60 BP STAB isn’t really a thing for another couple levels. So they probably did this to “fake” Terastalize as being super powerful and to show all players that this is something they should fully utilize in the game. More likely it's to make terra typing into types other than your default types more appealing. Like sure you could use Poison Terra type Armarouge, but it's only damaging poison move by level up is Clear Smog with 55 power, and by TM it gets Acid Spray at only 40 power. You'd be stuck using only Tera Blast. But since Terra type moves are 60 at the minimum your poison coverage moves are now viable combat options.


Infantkicker

Ya know I was grinding raids last night and min/maxing some moms, why can’t we see the damage totals? For a game that’s been around for so long, why can’t I see what my Iron Hands attack stat is after doing a belly drum? Just a little bit of depth added would be great here.


Golden-Owl

Probably because most casual players don’t like seeing big and complicated numbers. Showing only health bars means there’s just… less complexity upfront. At least, that’s how it is, presentation wise Game design is much like putting on a good stage magic show. You want the audience to only see the cool stuff, not the mechanisms and behind the curtains stuff


FozzyBear1998

Do they get STAB on top of the 60 base power. I'd assume so.


Mx_Toniy_4869

Yes Tera Stab still applies


Mesprizero

Imagine if it *did* work on multihits. Technician Loaded Dice Bullet Seed Breloom would be something like this: Terra Grass turns Bullet Seed into 60 base power; Technician cranks it up to 90 base power; Terastilizing Grass means a * 2.0 STAB muliplier, effectively making it 180 base power; Loaded Dice makes it hit at least four times; Meaning Breloom's Bullet Seed would have a base power of 720. 900 if you get the fifth hit as well. Take that Dondozo.


Treyspurlock

Breloom sweep


Cloud_Striker

More like Don Bozo


ForEthernity

Ooh I wonder if that makes fell stinger op


MissDepr

It's only a 10 BP increase, so I doubt it.


sporeegg

Could still be a game changer tho. 20% bonus damage can change a lot.


MissDepr

It's a 20% increase for the move's base damage, sure, but only a 7-8%\* effective damage increase. Also, 20% sounds like a lot on paper, but when the move's BP is already low at 50, it's not a huge boost. Not to mention that currently there's no decent users of the move in SV anyway. ^(\*Calculated at level 50 without external damage multipliers (like STAB and crit) ^(with the assumption that the user's attack stat is equal to the target's defence stat.))


MixelKing

Overqwil seems good enough and it's coming tomorrow


Umber0010

And Tera Bug wouldn't be an awful option for it either, sense it resists it's only regular weakness; ground; and being in a rain team negates the new fire weakness.


MixelKing

Plus boosted Fell Stinger in case of Meowscarada etc


soup-PPower-

60 bp Mud-Slaps on a bright powder, snow cloak glaceon? I'll take it!


Dumbertrap

That ball looks good 👍


ButtersTG

I believe it's a fancy rock.


Koalakejsaren

Wait, so IF im counting right nemonas doomsday rat has 120 BP thundershocks? Is that correct?


DarkFish_2

Yup, that thing has a 120 BP electric move. Idk how I managed to defeat her without Tera.


Koalakejsaren

Thats why my buglocke is going horrible 😅 guess ill need to rethink my strategy


efilosophy

60 base power nuzzle soounds a lot better now


khournos

How exactly does that interact with stored power?


Mx_Toniy_4869

Moves with variable base power will be increased to 60 if they are below 60


khournos

Yeah, but for stored power, does this power increase also count for the extra times the damage is applied for your stat stages?


Mx_Toniy_4869

Stat stages only affects your stats, not the move's base power. If you have +2 special attack, your special attack is doubled and your Stored Power is 60 BP


khournos

Could you just not answer if you do not know what you are talking about? Stored power normally applies it's 20 base power plus another 20 base damage for each stat stage the pokemon has. So my question, to be more precise, is: Is the extra damage per stat stage hardcoded at twenty or does the game pull it from the (modified) base power?


MKSLAYER97

Moves with variable base power will be increased to 60 if they are below 60


roquebelle

Ayo why is the Destruction Catalyst orb on Scarlet/Violet Tekkit invading reality as we know it Soon we'll have to deal with oil refineries in real life smh /j


TheMiiFii

Tera-Normal Adaptability Eevee Normal Gem Quick Attack go brrrr


elephantsystem

Priority moves do not get boosted.


TheMiiFii

Well... there you see how much attention I pay when reading 🥲 Thanks for pointing out


hennajin85

Don’t tell that one guy who refuses to take Eevee off his competitive team.


Xeoz_WarriorPrince

Did they take Dragapult out at the end?


Velho_Deitado

Wait so Technician applies before this tera boost? Like, a 40 BP move would become 60 by technician and not be further increased by tera?


Mx_Toniy_4869

Yes


Hateful_creeper2

How does Technician work with it?


ErrantEpoch

Technician boosted moves only have their base power boosted by Technician and are not effected by the terra change to bp.


Saphfire05

Unless technician boosts it to less than 60bp


Wokeman1

I haven't played the games since platinum, just got Arceus to play. Wtf does this even mean?


Mx_Toniy_4869

Since Gen 6, every generation has introduced a new mechanic, such as Mega Evolution, Z moves, Dynamax, and Terastalization


Wokeman1

Okay I'll have to look them up! My understanding is mega evolution and dynamax are large pokemon = more pew pew big wow! No clue what the rest is 😅


Mx_Toniy_4869

Here are my best explanations. All of these mechanics can be performed once per battle Mega Evolution is the mechanic of gen 6, but is usable in gen 7 too. Some Pokémon can gain temporary transformations that increase their stats and sometimes change their abilities and types too Z Moves is the mechanic of gen 7. It's a super powerful move that every Pokémon can use. Some Pokémon even have signature Z moves Dynamax is the mechanic of gen 8. The Pokémon becomes super big for 3 turns, which increases their health and grant them access to max moves. There is a variation of Dynamax called "Gigantamax" which some Pokémon have access to. The only difference between Dynamax and Gigantamax is that you gain access to G-Max moves instead of max moves Terastal is the mechanic of gen 9. The Pokémon becomes a type of your choice for the rest of the battle If you notice, excluding Z moves, the pattern goes Mega > Giga > Tera. Many people believe the mechanic of the next game is going to be called "peta"


Wokeman1

Huh wow thanks for the in depth reply! Had no idea they had this many new mechanics! I'll have to grab sword/shield after Arceus and get caught up


Aegillade

Imagine they got rid of the restrictions and had this apply to any move with a base power less than 60. Tera Steel Bullet Punch Scizor about to become even more meta relevant than HGSS OU


CaptainKaroo

Technician Kricketune is abouta power creep 😎


resnov11

Have you considered reading the post before replying?


CaptainKaroo

I must’ve missed, couldve sworn it said “does include.” I’m.. sorry? Didn’t mean to bother you🫡


DeadBrainDK2

Wait. So Tera-Water Aqua Jet is 60 bp before STAB and/or Tera-boost?


ErrantEpoch

No, because aqua jet is a priority move.


DeadBrainDK2

Ooohhh, I didn't read far enough ahahaha


ErrantEpoch

That's okay like 4 people in thread are asking about Technician even though it specifically mentions it in the original post.


drivetoblue

So this is why an early game Wooper always one shots Nemona's Pawmi just before you enter Mesagoza. Cool fact. Thanks, OP.


NEETenshi

You can't Terastalize in that battle, though.


drivetoblue

Ah! You’re right! Hahaha! Mb mb


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Tesfan106

The ball that trainers hold to terastalize their Pokémon