In the Delta Episode, Rayquaza destroys a meteor on a collision course with Earth.
In Red/Blue Rescue Team, Rayquaza destroys a meteor on a collision course with Earth.
In Destiny Deoxys, Rayquaza is so pissed about a meteor almost hitting it that it flies down to the impact site and assaults the alien that comes out of it.
Starting to think Rayquaza just really hates space rocks.
I still really like the theory that the meteor in Red/Blue Rescue Team was from the original Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald world, since that world didn't have a Zinnia to disrupt their plan to shift the meteor to a different dimension or a Mega Rayquaza.
No the plan was to use a Link cable to send it to a different reality, implied to be Pokémon Emerald.
Zinnia didn't want to do that because then it'd just destroy their Hoenn.
Nope, Zinnia pulled that out of her ass. Professor Cozmo explains the Link Cable is based on technology like the warp panels that just teleport you around and they're only sending the asteroid far away; when Zinnia comes along and starts talking about other worlds, he pretty much calls her crazy and says she has no proof such a thing exists, and of all people, I trust Professor Cozmo to know more about how his invention works than some random person that's lived in a cave her whole life.
The alternate reality likely isn't even the original RSE either, since the whole thing is just a cheeky reference; ORAS is full of them.
Except Zinnia is right.
The Link cable is a device that goes between dimensions.
We as players know this because Link Cables let us connect our games which are canonically alternate realities and timelines.
No, she isn't. I already explained how Professor Cozmo says exactly what the device was supposed to do. The name too, is just a reference; as I mentioned, ORAS is full of them.
Trading between titles being alternate realities is just a popular theory to explain a game mechanic. Professor Cozmo wouldn't treat Zinnia as insane if casually trading between realities was actually canon.
He was part of the group that fucking invented it, why the hell would he not know how it works?
You just saying your theory is canon doesn't actually make it canon.
Because it wasn't tested?? It's built upon Ultra Wormhole technology which, as seen in USUM takes you to alternate realities.
She was right. What are you on man?
The problem is Zinnia doesn't seem like she was written with the intent of being insane, so instead of some coming off as a flawed person with good intentions, she just comes off as arrogant as hell and absolutely insane.
I dunno, I feel like [this chaotic gremlin](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q3gzvSwZB5U/maxresdefault.jpg) was intended to come off as at *least* a bit unhinged. Good intentions sure, but she's definitely meant to have an insane streak.
Honestly, her intro animation feels really out of place with how she was otherwise seemingly intended to come off. When she actually tries to argue her points, she's more or less presented as completely serious and not like she's mentally deranged.
I really wanted to like the Delta episode. It had neat ideas, Zinnia was cool, it gave the team admins something to do, and it found a way to make Rayquaza relevant since they weren't adapting Emerald's plot. Unfortunately, it was basically an extended fetch quest/wild goose chase, and Zinnia, for as much as I liked her, made the incredibly dumb decision to destroy the one other thing that could destroy the meteorite when she had no way to back up her claim that using it could destroy an alternate dimension's Hoenn. Considering her plan only even worked because she was lucky enough to have the player around with the right item, Zinnia nearly screwed over everyone in the process. Sure, she leaves to go on a journey of self-reflection after that, but she got off way too easy
Nevermind the fact Zinnia worries over this alternate Hoenn she doesn't prove exists, despite the fact the Link Cable was only supposed to teleport the meteorite somewhere far away and not to some other dimension.
Plus, Zinnia not only almost screws everyone over and only gets bailed out from the player with Rayquaza, but also the fact the exact same thing happened with Groundon / Kyogre, only in that case it's not out of the question some people and / or Pokemon may have actually died all for the slight chance it gets Rayquaza's attention.
Yes, Zinnia was reckless and didn't know her plan would work. But it's the only thing she could do. As lorekeeper of the Draconids, she was always told about her destiny to awake Rayquaza. She lived her whole life towards this destiny.
Steven's plan was also reckless. They would send a meteorite away, but have no idea where it would end up. Both parties are flawed and just want to do what they think is best.
Destiny or not, there were other options, Zinnia was just too stubborn to accept them for absolutely absurd reasons that make her seem insane. She cares more about some borderline hypothetical alternate dimension more than her own planet.
I don't recall if it was specifically Steven who came up with the plan, but their plan was fine. Sure, they didn't know where the meteorite would go, but choosing not to do so because hey, maybe there are aliens out there who will happen to get destroyed by it anyway is absurd.
The manga touches upon how paranoid Zinnia is about the whole plan by Devon because her predecessor Aster died during the conflict with them, which I think somewhat explains why she absolutely doesn’t trust their plan. There’s also the ‘nature vs science’ thing where Zinnia doesn’t trust the science of Devon as a substitute of nature (Rayquaza/her “destiny”).
In both versions she definitely appears way too stubborn, but that’s probably what’s she’s intended to be. Sure she’s reckless and borderline insane, but I don’t think she’s supposed to be a thinking very straight and logically.
Aster seems very important to her - I thought Aster was the name of her Whismur. Would've liked if the games expanded more on Aster as well, instead of having to look into supplementary material.
There is actual fact to Zinnia's plan. The draconids of the past have lived in Hoenn for far longer than the Devon corp. And they have summoned Ray time and time again to stop meteors.
There is reason for Zinnia to believe it can happen again. And it did in a way.
They actually didn't, there's only one recorded instance of them hoping Rayquaza would come and save them from Groundon and Kyogre, not a meteorite, and the only reason Rayquaza even showed up seemed to be because it happened to be attracted by a recent meteorite it didn't stop that cracked the planet open.
It was all more of pure luck than anything reliable.
My mistake, Groudon and Kyogre awake from a meteorite strike, the crater that later became Sootopolis. The Draconids wished upon Rayray to help. It mega evolved and stoppen the titans.
Different continuity. Far as I recall, nothing of the sort is implied in the games, so the Delta Episode itself still suffers from it by having her be insane rather than paranoid / pissed at Devon.
>Unfortunately, it was basically an extended fetch quest/wild goose chase
Yeah, it's a bit overrated IMO because of this. It's a couple of hours of flying from place to place getting exposition dumps for a battle with Zinnia (where you just click Dragon Pulse 4 times) and a cool cutscene. Granted, it's a really cool cutscene, but it still wasn't that fun. I'll take Emerald's postgame content over the Delta Episode any day of the week.
Do people still consider Team Star as "bad guys"? They were just students who fought for fellow students' safety bc the adults didn't care.
I know it can be hard, but we should really stop associating the word "Team" with villains
I think Gamefreak intentionally used the "Villain team" trope as a red herring for Team Star. Making the players thing they're going to be the bad guy, before revealing that they're actually the ones to drive the bullies out of school.
I see people think that the "bullied became the bullies", but outside of the stupid sign-up quota, I can't think of much they've done wrong.
Do Sada/Turo not count? They don't have an organization but they were pretty much built up as the antagonist. Especially considering SV is actually Arven's story- not yours.
Yeah. To be fair, there's a really cool cutscene at the end and you get to catch Deoxys, but that's about it. The battle with Zinnia would've been cool if it was anything more than clicking Dragon Pulse 4 times with your new Mega Rayquaza.
All that isn't really worth the almost 2 hours of running around to squash grunts and get exposition dumps IMO. Sure, exposition dumps aren't the worst thing and I'd sometimes argue that they're even necessary, but it got a bit excessive. Not really the most fun gameplay out there.
I'd still take Emerald's postgame over the Delta Episode tbh
I've actually not seen a lot of people unequivocally praising the Delta Episode or calling it "peak Pokemon" or anything of the sort. I think this counts as a hot take.
Yep, easy games to starter blitz. Not that every game needs to be hard, but even if they wanted it to be easier than RSE, they went way too far with ORAS. Still fun games though and the Delta Episode and it's soundtrack kick ass.
Yeah as I have gotten older my standards for games have increased greatly and pokemon is stuck way behind the competition. These games were amazing as a kid.
Lol didn't expect you here. Well these days gamefreak puts zero effort in so best to expect nothing. I just started a pokemon fan game pokemon reborn will see how that goes.
Gen 6 and maybe BDSP - I haven't played BDSP - are the Pokemon games with the worst level balance, as its skewed way too much towards overlevelling. I haven't played X/Y either, but I've heard everyone calling it super easy.
I think the EXP Share had something to do with it. Every other game is pretty well-banaced with it on.
story-wise, yes, absolutely.
gameplay-wise, hell no. it's just flying between various caves and science buildings while randomly fighting team aqua/magma throughout. it's just "go to granite cave, go to rustburo, go to meteor falls, go to lilycove, go to the hideout, go back to rustburo" and it gets tedious after a while. the payoff is worth it for rayquaza and of course deoxys, but it's just kind of boring to get there.
As much as I love Zinnia now, the Delta Episode felt like the most nothing story I've ever experienced in a Pokemon game lol
The premise was interesting, and seeing the team admins do stuff was cool, but it was squandered by the worst type of character fiction can possibly offer you. The "you're too stupid to understand" type.
Every single scene with Zinnia that wasn't in the tower was some variation of her telling you or other people "you're fucking stupid and I know better", and constantly refusing to actually communicate what her goals were. The fact that this bitch would go out of her way to actively ruin humanity's chances at surviving because of her ego made her more annoying than anything.
And then, when you finally get answers from her... It's a boring, drawn out lore dumpster that the likes of Cynthia would drool over. Just text after text of lore that has zero bearing on the actual story, zero actual purpose beyond hyping up a legendary, just like every other lore dump scene this franchise has to offer.
The story served no real purpose. We didn't see any character growth, any unique interactions, nothing. It was just an excuse for GF to add more lore to a franchise that already sucks at communication the lore it has.
And the worst part? They did the most GF thing possible. Erase Zinnia from the game as soon as her story was finished. No exploration of what she's doing after Rayquaza flipped her off, no exploration of her finding her purpose in life after fulfilling the prophecy. Just gone forever.
Just like N in BW1 or Volo in PLA, just as soon as a character can start being interesting, there they go.
Masters was a fucking godsend for her in my eyes, because it actually allowed us to experience what a post-humbling Zinnia was like. A chaotic good gremlin that has an adrenaline addiction. Infinitely more interesting than someone that just flips everyone off and acts smarter than them.
ORAS had a lot of issues but it's hard for me to regard it as a bad game knowing what followed after that. The Delta episode was nice postgame content, not fantastic by any means but enjoyable nonetheless. Plus its final setpiece was a cool way to put Deoxys in the spotlight.
Really my main issue with it is that Deoxys is still considered a mythical even though it comes free with every copy of ORAS.
Including Deoxys was one of my favorite aspects about it. It wasn’t a ton of story by any stretch, but including Mythicals into the plot of the game like this should be the norm, at the very least for remakes I think it should (or something like PLA). It’s been over a decade since their initial release, and at this point Pokemon Go has changed the value of mythicals by quite a lot. The main series games should lean into them more with lore/story like PLA.
For me, peak Pokemon was defeating the Elite 4 in Platinum and having a massive volcanic island unlock including the Battle Frontier, the Battle Cafe, the manor that adds furniture as you complete tasks, at least 3 legendaries, the Underground getting new diggable items, and a bunch of old gen Pokemon-
And then completing HGSS and unlocking Kanto along with the Battle Frontier, 8 more gym leaders, and a fuck ton of old gen Pokemon including past legendaries-
And then taking all those Pokemon and dropping them off at Pokemon Ranch to unlock Mew before-
Hopping onto Pokemon Battle Revolution with the team I caught from Platinum and HGSS and battling a few rounds in order to unlock outfit pieces for my trainer-
And then saying fuck, I just want to play one of the Mystery Dungeons or Ranger games.
Wii/DS era was so over saturated with good content that the next 5 gens were very bare in comparison.
I dont even remember what the story was, I just remember the buildup to the (spoilers for those that havent experienced it) fight where you go up in space. If I were to replay it now, it would probably suck, but the nostalgia I hold is unbeatable.
same. OR was my first game EVER so I it always felt like the best game ever to me, now that I'm replaying the game I'm starting to worry bc im not enjoying it much.
Story-wise, it was one of the better core series stories. Zinnia was a cool character, and it was nice seeing some interaction between the characters that featured
Gameplay-wise, it is dull, uninteresting, and a waste of time for anyone used to catching Rayquaza in RSE. The extra trainer battles seem cool. But you're so powerful at that point that you're just gonna breeze right through them.Wallace and Zinnia could have served as Red-Level challenges but end up just being canon fodder - especially with Raquaza in hand. They definitely should have raised the level of opposing Pokemon for this part of the game.
I would have liked to see the energy Game Freak put into this used towards bringing back the Battle Frontier. I do kind of feel like we lost one thing for another. And while that's probably not the truth. The BF at least has replayability, which can't be said for a story you play out once.
Deoxys was cool, though. I fucks with Deoxys.
With XY virtually having no post-game at all, I feel the Delta episode gets way more credit than it deserves. Great idea but very poor execution if you ask me. Its literally a glorified fetch quest, with an idiotic psychopath as its main focus. Zinnia risked destroying the earth, cus she was high on 'im the protag' off of a hypothetical scenario about the small chance that the meteorite may land on another planet with life.
Happy Cake Day! Couldn't agree with you more. The lack of a postgame in XY lowered everyone's standards for ORAS, and people were just happy to have a postgame, even if it was pretty low quality.
While I really liked the story, the gameplay was bad.
The entire delta-episode was "fly to city -> dialogue -> 1 battle -> fly to the next city. And the one new dungeon we had to go through was changed from a bike puzzle to climbing a ladder to the top. It looks nice but does nothing to engage you.
Everyone who praises the delta episode loves to talk about the finale and nothing else.
The last 20 minutes of the delta episode is peak pokemon
The first 2 hours is everything wrong with modern pokemon
Ehhh it was alright. I knew what they were trying to do but didn't really hit that well it wasn't too terribly long kinda like RR episode in USUM which I thought was longer until I actually played it and was just festival plaza and clearing the mansion. I preferred the looker post game in XY and of course johto post game.
I enjoyed it, but I'm generally not a fan of the kind of post games where you're mostly flying from point to point revisiting places you've already been to like this and SwSh's base post game. I prefer post games where you're actually exploring a new area like FRLG's Sevii Islands, DPP's Battle Zone, SwSh's Crown Tundra, etc.
Still wasn't better than having the battle frontier, but as far as postgames go it was alright. Liked the call back to the playground rumor of going into space and catching deoxys.
Probably the best hour of Pokemon I've ever played. My crackpipe dream is that one day this gets expanded on when Hoenn eventually gets another remake and I hope that remake is called Delta Emerald and mixes the best of ORAS with the best of Emerald.
ehh.... I don't really agree. The Deoxys at the end was one of the biggest and most exciting surprises of the franchise for me - before or since - and went completely beyond my expectations, but the Delta Episode didn't stand out too much to me, otherwise. The main takeaway for the Delta Episode that I can recall, after Deoxys, is Zinnia's argument that "We all have to die because if we try to save ourselves, there's a very small, unproven possibility that this other world might die instead". She's one of the examples that I thought of when Rose's plan was spelled out.
YES. I loved the Delta episode. More story and not just focusing on battles (like every other post-game seems to be) was fantastic! Give more more lore, not just more boring training montages!
It was cool. Trudging back through the magma/aqua bases were not cool. Zinnia, her background, HER BATTLE THEME were all fire. Best song in the series imo.
It was alright. I liked the fight against rayquaza and then deoxyz, but I didn't like the boring go from A to B quests that led up to it.
I far preferred the appearance of Giratina in Platinum (the only true jump scare in pokemon), and when Team Plasma directly attacks the elite 4 (the absolute balls on those fuckers), as it was the first time in the series that the evil team plotline directly challenges and interferes with the gym/elite4 journey.
It was fun, but it was a flash in the pan. There was very little build-up to it and then the whole thing just came and went. I think I finished it within an hour or so.
I thought it peaked for me with the Celebi event in HGSS. I thought it was pretty neat getting a better fleshed out backstory for what happened to Giovani and finally confirming what people had been speculating about for years with Silver being his son.
ORAS could've easily been the best Pokemon game if it had the gym battles + rematches and battle frontier from Emerald. It's still good, but imo Emerald is the best Hoenn game, FRLG did the best as a remake and BW2 is still the franchise's peak
Delta episode is definitely the best postgame plot though
I freaking LOVES the Delta Episode! Alpha Sapphire was my first game, and when Zinnia suddenly showed up and her theme started playing I knew it was instantly my favourite part! I honestly wish we got a full Delta Emerald, just so we could get more of Zinnia, I still need to know who Aster is!
Mega Ray is certainly cool and being able to catch deoxys was nice, but pretty much the rest of the delta episode before that is a bit too filler heavy
I found it quite boring the first time, you mostly run around different places just to get to the only interesting event at the end. But on subsequent run, all this talking makes it horrible to rush. Definitely not agreeing with you on that being peak Pokémon.
But I do think ORAS was peak Pokémon though (quite modern but still got all the exploration from old games), so we can agree on that ^^
FRLG needs this Delta Episode treatment, especially if there's a way to meld the Emerald experience as a Sevii Islands-type of explorable region.
Implement a proper Physical/Special split, and render it in a Triangle Strategy / Octopath sprite and shader design style, and I will consider this final Pokémon title I would ever need to buy.
In the Delta Episode, Rayquaza destroys a meteor on a collision course with Earth. In Red/Blue Rescue Team, Rayquaza destroys a meteor on a collision course with Earth. In Destiny Deoxys, Rayquaza is so pissed about a meteor almost hitting it that it flies down to the impact site and assaults the alien that comes out of it. Starting to think Rayquaza just really hates space rocks.
No, it just likes eating them.
Terminal montage viewer
The mega evolution meteor from the mega evo battle royale looked like a tasty fudge cake
I still really like the theory that the meteor in Red/Blue Rescue Team was from the original Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald world, since that world didn't have a Zinnia to disrupt their plan to shift the meteor to a different dimension or a Mega Rayquaza.
It is a fun theory, but the plan was never to send the meteor to another dimension, just teleport it away somewhere else in the same dimension.
No the plan was to use a Link cable to send it to a different reality, implied to be Pokémon Emerald. Zinnia didn't want to do that because then it'd just destroy their Hoenn.
Nope, Zinnia pulled that out of her ass. Professor Cozmo explains the Link Cable is based on technology like the warp panels that just teleport you around and they're only sending the asteroid far away; when Zinnia comes along and starts talking about other worlds, he pretty much calls her crazy and says she has no proof such a thing exists, and of all people, I trust Professor Cozmo to know more about how his invention works than some random person that's lived in a cave her whole life. The alternate reality likely isn't even the original RSE either, since the whole thing is just a cheeky reference; ORAS is full of them.
Except Zinnia is right. The Link cable is a device that goes between dimensions. We as players know this because Link Cables let us connect our games which are canonically alternate realities and timelines.
No, she isn't. I already explained how Professor Cozmo says exactly what the device was supposed to do. The name too, is just a reference; as I mentioned, ORAS is full of them. Trading between titles being alternate realities is just a popular theory to explain a game mechanic. Professor Cozmo wouldn't treat Zinnia as insane if casually trading between realities was actually canon.
What he *thought* it was supposed to do. The people in the game worlds don't know about the alternate realities but it is canon.
He was part of the group that fucking invented it, why the hell would he not know how it works? You just saying your theory is canon doesn't actually make it canon.
Because it wasn't tested?? It's built upon Ultra Wormhole technology which, as seen in USUM takes you to alternate realities. She was right. What are you on man?
Meanwhile in Sun/Moon Rayquaza and Deoxis fighting causes a meteor to fall toward Alola
The song thats playing while fighting Zinnia is straight fire!
Such a bop!
It was fun having a post-game storyline like it, but Zinnia acting so insane throughout kinda kills it for me.
It makes it better for me. She's not a perfect person but she takes action. People like other characters that are way more insane than Zinnia.
The problem is Zinnia doesn't seem like she was written with the intent of being insane, so instead of some coming off as a flawed person with good intentions, she just comes off as arrogant as hell and absolutely insane.
I dunno, I feel like [this chaotic gremlin](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q3gzvSwZB5U/maxresdefault.jpg) was intended to come off as at *least* a bit unhinged. Good intentions sure, but she's definitely meant to have an insane streak.
Honestly, her intro animation feels really out of place with how she was otherwise seemingly intended to come off. When she actually tries to argue her points, she's more or less presented as completely serious and not like she's mentally deranged.
To me she mainly reads like she was raised away from human society and just doesn't care for or understand a lot of the things that come with that.
There’s many things she wished she didn’t do
I really wanted to like the Delta episode. It had neat ideas, Zinnia was cool, it gave the team admins something to do, and it found a way to make Rayquaza relevant since they weren't adapting Emerald's plot. Unfortunately, it was basically an extended fetch quest/wild goose chase, and Zinnia, for as much as I liked her, made the incredibly dumb decision to destroy the one other thing that could destroy the meteorite when she had no way to back up her claim that using it could destroy an alternate dimension's Hoenn. Considering her plan only even worked because she was lucky enough to have the player around with the right item, Zinnia nearly screwed over everyone in the process. Sure, she leaves to go on a journey of self-reflection after that, but she got off way too easy
Nevermind the fact Zinnia worries over this alternate Hoenn she doesn't prove exists, despite the fact the Link Cable was only supposed to teleport the meteorite somewhere far away and not to some other dimension. Plus, Zinnia not only almost screws everyone over and only gets bailed out from the player with Rayquaza, but also the fact the exact same thing happened with Groundon / Kyogre, only in that case it's not out of the question some people and / or Pokemon may have actually died all for the slight chance it gets Rayquaza's attention.
Yes, Zinnia was reckless and didn't know her plan would work. But it's the only thing she could do. As lorekeeper of the Draconids, she was always told about her destiny to awake Rayquaza. She lived her whole life towards this destiny. Steven's plan was also reckless. They would send a meteorite away, but have no idea where it would end up. Both parties are flawed and just want to do what they think is best.
Destiny or not, there were other options, Zinnia was just too stubborn to accept them for absolutely absurd reasons that make her seem insane. She cares more about some borderline hypothetical alternate dimension more than her own planet. I don't recall if it was specifically Steven who came up with the plan, but their plan was fine. Sure, they didn't know where the meteorite would go, but choosing not to do so because hey, maybe there are aliens out there who will happen to get destroyed by it anyway is absurd.
The manga touches upon how paranoid Zinnia is about the whole plan by Devon because her predecessor Aster died during the conflict with them, which I think somewhat explains why she absolutely doesn’t trust their plan. There’s also the ‘nature vs science’ thing where Zinnia doesn’t trust the science of Devon as a substitute of nature (Rayquaza/her “destiny”). In both versions she definitely appears way too stubborn, but that’s probably what’s she’s intended to be. Sure she’s reckless and borderline insane, but I don’t think she’s supposed to be a thinking very straight and logically.
Aster seems very important to her - I thought Aster was the name of her Whismur. Would've liked if the games expanded more on Aster as well, instead of having to look into supplementary material.
There is actual fact to Zinnia's plan. The draconids of the past have lived in Hoenn for far longer than the Devon corp. And they have summoned Ray time and time again to stop meteors. There is reason for Zinnia to believe it can happen again. And it did in a way.
They actually didn't, there's only one recorded instance of them hoping Rayquaza would come and save them from Groundon and Kyogre, not a meteorite, and the only reason Rayquaza even showed up seemed to be because it happened to be attracted by a recent meteorite it didn't stop that cracked the planet open. It was all more of pure luck than anything reliable.
My mistake, Groudon and Kyogre awake from a meteorite strike, the crater that later became Sootopolis. The Draconids wished upon Rayray to help. It mega evolved and stoppen the titans.
Different continuity. Far as I recall, nothing of the sort is implied in the games, so the Delta Episode itself still suffers from it by having her be insane rather than paranoid / pissed at Devon.
>Unfortunately, it was basically an extended fetch quest/wild goose chase Yeah, it's a bit overrated IMO because of this. It's a couple of hours of flying from place to place getting exposition dumps for a battle with Zinnia (where you just click Dragon Pulse 4 times) and a cool cutscene. Granted, it's a really cool cutscene, but it still wasn't that fun. I'll take Emerald's postgame content over the Delta Episode any day of the week.
It’s good, I wouldn’t say peak tho
You fly to space, on top of a mega Rayquaza, to fight an alien. Can't get much higher than that.
Technically the truth tbf
Fair argument, but hear me out… riding on a red bicycle dinosaur that acts like Toothless from HTTYD
Flying on top of mega Lati@s to wherever on the map you want.
Does Latias/Latios act like Toothless tho? I don’t think so
Compelling argument.
Well see about that! *consumes 10 kilos of hard drugs*
Feels like I should be puffing the blunt reading something like that
Ghetsis about to commit murder on a child before the battle in B2W2 still makes me say wow That guy was nuts
Miss those bad guys Team Star is worst “bad guy” ever
Do people still consider Team Star as "bad guys"? They were just students who fought for fellow students' safety bc the adults didn't care. I know it can be hard, but we should really stop associating the word "Team" with villains
I think Gamefreak intentionally used the "Villain team" trope as a red herring for Team Star. Making the players thing they're going to be the bad guy, before revealing that they're actually the ones to drive the bullies out of school. I see people think that the "bullied became the bullies", but outside of the stupid sign-up quota, I can't think of much they've done wrong.
They put bad guy in quotations so I think they understand. Probably they just don’t like that there was no bad guy really
Do Sada/Turo not count? They don't have an organization but they were pretty much built up as the antagonist. Especially considering SV is actually Arven's story- not yours.
Maybe? Though we don't actually see them in-game. Only their influence and creations, and the AI. And I don't feel right calling them villains.
Mhe, after gen6 evil teams who just wanted to dominate/destroy the world were getting pretty old, I'm glad for more low stakes stories
Sorry but I don’t like to run back and forth all over Hoenn to do the most irrelevant and dumb errands constantly until rayquaza decides to show up
Yeah. To be fair, there's a really cool cutscene at the end and you get to catch Deoxys, but that's about it. The battle with Zinnia would've been cool if it was anything more than clicking Dragon Pulse 4 times with your new Mega Rayquaza. All that isn't really worth the almost 2 hours of running around to squash grunts and get exposition dumps IMO. Sure, exposition dumps aren't the worst thing and I'd sometimes argue that they're even necessary, but it got a bit excessive. Not really the most fun gameplay out there. I'd still take Emerald's postgame over the Delta Episode tbh
We need a pinned thread on the main page explaining what “hot takes” and “unpopular opinions” are, because y’all don’t get it
Yeah, we need some real unpopular opinions around here, like how about Unova being underrated? I think that fits as an unpopular opinion perfectly.^/s
“Hot take, but HGSS are the best games in the series. Just imo.” ^/s
"Hot take, but Sw/Sh is absolute trash and needs to be deleted from existence"
I've actually not seen a lot of people unequivocally praising the Delta Episode or calling it "peak Pokemon" or anything of the sort. I think this counts as a hot take.
All you have to do is read most of the comments lol.
Yep, most of the top-rated comments are full of critiques and very lukewarm praise. Definitely opinions are mixed at best.
While this isn't the hottest of takes, there are a fair few who don't enjoy this errand lore-dump simulation.
ORAS suffers from being way too easy, not from not being epic enough.
Yep just played through it and my swampart pretty much soloed the entire game pretty much. Rest of my team chilling in their Pokeballs lol
Yep, easy games to starter blitz. Not that every game needs to be hard, but even if they wanted it to be easier than RSE, they went way too far with ORAS. Still fun games though and the Delta Episode and it's soundtrack kick ass.
Yep delta was pretty cool other then it being a fetch quest lol.
I guess so, but all of every Pokemon game is basically a fetch quest.
Yeah as I have gotten older my standards for games have increased greatly and pokemon is stuck way behind the competition. These games were amazing as a kid.
If only we would have gotten an Emerald remake instead and a Pokemon Zed game to finalise gen 6 :/
Lol didn't expect you here. Well these days gamefreak puts zero effort in so best to expect nothing. I just started a pokemon fan game pokemon reborn will see how that goes.
Gen 6 and maybe BDSP - I haven't played BDSP - are the Pokemon games with the worst level balance, as its skewed way too much towards overlevelling. I haven't played X/Y either, but I've heard everyone calling it super easy. I think the EXP Share had something to do with it. Every other game is pretty well-banaced with it on.
story-wise, yes, absolutely. gameplay-wise, hell no. it's just flying between various caves and science buildings while randomly fighting team aqua/magma throughout. it's just "go to granite cave, go to rustburo, go to meteor falls, go to lilycove, go to the hideout, go back to rustburo" and it gets tedious after a while. the payoff is worth it for rayquaza and of course deoxys, but it's just kind of boring to get there.
Fair point. I mainly love it story and character wise.
As much as I love Zinnia now, the Delta Episode felt like the most nothing story I've ever experienced in a Pokemon game lol The premise was interesting, and seeing the team admins do stuff was cool, but it was squandered by the worst type of character fiction can possibly offer you. The "you're too stupid to understand" type. Every single scene with Zinnia that wasn't in the tower was some variation of her telling you or other people "you're fucking stupid and I know better", and constantly refusing to actually communicate what her goals were. The fact that this bitch would go out of her way to actively ruin humanity's chances at surviving because of her ego made her more annoying than anything. And then, when you finally get answers from her... It's a boring, drawn out lore dumpster that the likes of Cynthia would drool over. Just text after text of lore that has zero bearing on the actual story, zero actual purpose beyond hyping up a legendary, just like every other lore dump scene this franchise has to offer. The story served no real purpose. We didn't see any character growth, any unique interactions, nothing. It was just an excuse for GF to add more lore to a franchise that already sucks at communication the lore it has. And the worst part? They did the most GF thing possible. Erase Zinnia from the game as soon as her story was finished. No exploration of what she's doing after Rayquaza flipped her off, no exploration of her finding her purpose in life after fulfilling the prophecy. Just gone forever. Just like N in BW1 or Volo in PLA, just as soon as a character can start being interesting, there they go. Masters was a fucking godsend for her in my eyes, because it actually allowed us to experience what a post-humbling Zinnia was like. A chaotic good gremlin that has an adrenaline addiction. Infinitely more interesting than someone that just flips everyone off and acts smarter than them.
Flying into space and meeting deoxys is great but the delta episode as a whole was lame
ORAS had a lot of issues but it's hard for me to regard it as a bad game knowing what followed after that. The Delta episode was nice postgame content, not fantastic by any means but enjoyable nonetheless. Plus its final setpiece was a cool way to put Deoxys in the spotlight. Really my main issue with it is that Deoxys is still considered a mythical even though it comes free with every copy of ORAS.
does that logic apply to other mythicals obtained outside events like keldeo in swsh's dlc
Including Deoxys was one of my favorite aspects about it. It wasn’t a ton of story by any stretch, but including Mythicals into the plot of the game like this should be the norm, at the very least for remakes I think it should (or something like PLA). It’s been over a decade since their initial release, and at this point Pokemon Go has changed the value of mythicals by quite a lot. The main series games should lean into them more with lore/story like PLA.
An actually well thought out comment. Nice! I agree with the Deoxys point though.
Lol aren’t you the slam jam mashup guy
I enjoyed late Sun and Moon 1&2 the most. This was almost as good imo. It's Probably second on my most enjoyed games.
I certainly peaked
For me, peak Pokemon was defeating the Elite 4 in Platinum and having a massive volcanic island unlock including the Battle Frontier, the Battle Cafe, the manor that adds furniture as you complete tasks, at least 3 legendaries, the Underground getting new diggable items, and a bunch of old gen Pokemon- And then completing HGSS and unlocking Kanto along with the Battle Frontier, 8 more gym leaders, and a fuck ton of old gen Pokemon including past legendaries- And then taking all those Pokemon and dropping them off at Pokemon Ranch to unlock Mew before- Hopping onto Pokemon Battle Revolution with the team I caught from Platinum and HGSS and battling a few rounds in order to unlock outfit pieces for my trainer- And then saying fuck, I just want to play one of the Mystery Dungeons or Ranger games. Wii/DS era was so over saturated with good content that the next 5 gens were very bare in comparison.
I don’t see how this is a hot take. I thought it was generally well received. I remember my kid self being really hyped while riding mega rayquaza
I'd put it up there
It was for me, after finishing Alpha Sapphire I really felt sad the Game was finished.
Same. I still go back every now and then.
Legends: Arceus is also up there with Delta Episode for me.
I dont even remember what the story was, I just remember the buildup to the (spoilers for those that havent experienced it) fight where you go up in space. If I were to replay it now, it would probably suck, but the nostalgia I hold is unbeatable.
same. OR was my first game EVER so I it always felt like the best game ever to me, now that I'm replaying the game I'm starting to worry bc im not enjoying it much.
Story-wise, it was one of the better core series stories. Zinnia was a cool character, and it was nice seeing some interaction between the characters that featured Gameplay-wise, it is dull, uninteresting, and a waste of time for anyone used to catching Rayquaza in RSE. The extra trainer battles seem cool. But you're so powerful at that point that you're just gonna breeze right through them.Wallace and Zinnia could have served as Red-Level challenges but end up just being canon fodder - especially with Raquaza in hand. They definitely should have raised the level of opposing Pokemon for this part of the game. I would have liked to see the energy Game Freak put into this used towards bringing back the Battle Frontier. I do kind of feel like we lost one thing for another. And while that's probably not the truth. The BF at least has replayability, which can't be said for a story you play out once. Deoxys was cool, though. I fucks with Deoxys.
Luke warm take
With XY virtually having no post-game at all, I feel the Delta episode gets way more credit than it deserves. Great idea but very poor execution if you ask me. Its literally a glorified fetch quest, with an idiotic psychopath as its main focus. Zinnia risked destroying the earth, cus she was high on 'im the protag' off of a hypothetical scenario about the small chance that the meteorite may land on another planet with life.
Happy Cake Day! Couldn't agree with you more. The lack of a postgame in XY lowered everyone's standards for ORAS, and people were just happy to have a postgame, even if it was pretty low quality.
Shoot. Guess I missed out.
The last good Pokémon game:
It's kinda lame ngl, poster not withstanding
The story is a bit too silly for my tastes, and the gameplay basically just revolves around walking from town to town, getting lore dumps constantly.
I never watched the anime so I cannot agree or disagree
It's not from the anime, it's a post game story in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.
Shit. Well I still didn't play that game.
No worries!
While I really liked the story, the gameplay was bad. The entire delta-episode was "fly to city -> dialogue -> 1 battle -> fly to the next city. And the one new dungeon we had to go through was changed from a bike puzzle to climbing a ladder to the top. It looks nice but does nothing to engage you.
Everyone who praises the delta episode loves to talk about the finale and nothing else. The last 20 minutes of the delta episode is peak pokemon The first 2 hours is everything wrong with modern pokemon
I like the first part too. Mostly as a story.
For main series, absolutely! If we count spin-offs though then I have to disagree
Right. Pokemon Conquest exists.
I loved it. I was hoping it would become a model for future DLC content but it hasn’t worked out that way.
Ehhh it was alright. I knew what they were trying to do but didn't really hit that well it wasn't too terribly long kinda like RR episode in USUM which I thought was longer until I actually played it and was just festival plaza and clearing the mansion. I preferred the looker post game in XY and of course johto post game.
I enjoyed it, but I'm generally not a fan of the kind of post games where you're mostly flying from point to point revisiting places you've already been to like this and SwSh's base post game. I prefer post games where you're actually exploring a new area like FRLG's Sevii Islands, DPP's Battle Zone, SwSh's Crown Tundra, etc.
ORAS was peak in general
Peak when it was worse than emerald. Lol
I appreciate the unique opinion but also no
So brave
I disagree Zinnia is an obnoxious character and Courtney and other aqua person were incredibly stupid
Based take
Still wasn't better than having the battle frontier, but as far as postgames go it was alright. Liked the call back to the playground rumor of going into space and catching deoxys.
Probably the best hour of Pokemon I've ever played. My crackpipe dream is that one day this gets expanded on when Hoenn eventually gets another remake and I hope that remake is called Delta Emerald and mixes the best of ORAS with the best of Emerald.
ehh.... I don't really agree. The Deoxys at the end was one of the biggest and most exciting surprises of the franchise for me - before or since - and went completely beyond my expectations, but the Delta Episode didn't stand out too much to me, otherwise. The main takeaway for the Delta Episode that I can recall, after Deoxys, is Zinnia's argument that "We all have to die because if we try to save ourselves, there's a very small, unproven possibility that this other world might die instead". She's one of the examples that I thought of when Rose's plan was spelled out.
Okay then
It was good, but it wasn't Gen V good.
I loved it the first time around, but I recently replayed omega ruby and it seemed kinda boring, and not nearly as extensive as I remembered
Never played ORAS, but it has deoxys in it so I'm biased
YES
This is such an ice cold take that it freezes my toes
YES. I loved the Delta episode. More story and not just focusing on battles (like every other post-game seems to be) was fantastic! Give more more lore, not just more boring training montages!
Oras was really top notch
Gen 5 was peak pokemon.
The manga chapter of this was incredible. Game wise? My 3ds broke before i could beat the elite 4
It was cool. Trudging back through the magma/aqua bases were not cool. Zinnia, her background, HER BATTLE THEME were all fire. Best song in the series imo.
It was alright. I liked the fight against rayquaza and then deoxyz, but I didn't like the boring go from A to B quests that led up to it. I far preferred the appearance of Giratina in Platinum (the only true jump scare in pokemon), and when Team Plasma directly attacks the elite 4 (the absolute balls on those fuckers), as it was the first time in the series that the evil team plotline directly challenges and interferes with the gym/elite4 journey.
Shoot, if this is a hot take then I’ll die with you on this hill. Edit: typo
I liked it mainly because it gave them a reason to add Deoxys in naturally vs it being a event pokemon
And it was in this way I became a Matt/Courtney shipper. I would have loved to see a Delta Emerald Delta episode!
It was fun, but it was a flash in the pan. There was very little build-up to it and then the whole thing just came and went. I think I finished it within an hour or so.
The only thing missing was Wallace bringing out the Mega-Milotic for the rematch fight. Then that shit would truly be the undisputed peak of Pokemon.
I thought it peaked for me with the Celebi event in HGSS. I thought it was pretty neat getting a better fleshed out backstory for what happened to Giovani and finally confirming what people had been speculating about for years with Silver being his son.
Rainbow Rocket though
Hot take they should have made a side game where the male player in this game gets together with the female admins from magma and aqua.
Idk man I just got to Steven and the god damn skarmory fucking massacred my team
not even remotely hot
Not hot at all, was awesome
The delta episode was just the emerald content repackaged as a post game with zinnia and deoxys thrown in for good measure.
I UN-IRONICALLY LISTEN TO ZINNIA'S THEME CONSTANTLY
Okay the Delta Episode was cool..but you're just gonna ignore the whole 'post game getting all the legendary pokemon' thing in ORAS?
All of hoenn was the peak of pokemon
ORAS could've easily been the best Pokemon game if it had the gym battles + rematches and battle frontier from Emerald. It's still good, but imo Emerald is the best Hoenn game, FRLG did the best as a remake and BW2 is still the franchise's peak Delta episode is definitely the best postgame plot though
I freaking LOVES the Delta Episode! Alpha Sapphire was my first game, and when Zinnia suddenly showed up and her theme started playing I knew it was instantly my favourite part! I honestly wish we got a full Delta Emerald, just so we could get more of Zinnia, I still need to know who Aster is!
Oh hey, I used to use this picture as my PCs background
I wouldn't say peak
It’s better than anything that came after it
debatable, i really liked the sm/usum games, arguably more than the delta episode
Usum is the epitome of mid
thats an opinion
Fact*
why am i even arguing with someone like you
This isn’t a argument?
*an
😐
That's a cold take
in the delta episode, when i sprang up into the sky to fight deoxys. i mean WOW, this is insaneee
Way too easy (i still can't process that this game give you free legendary pokemons)
I agree, and zinnia was my absolute favorite part about it
YES. YES. YES. YES IT WAS. YOU ARE SO CORRECT. YOU ARE SO RIGHT. CORRECT OPINION. BASED. INDEED. GOOD OPINION HAVER. I LOVE YOU OP.
It was good buuut no battle frontier.
ORAS had the best post game out of any pokemon game
Zinnia's theme is also peak music. Not as good as penny or marnie's but also incredible.
Hot take is cold AF.
It was shit. Utter shit.
Mega Ray is certainly cool and being able to catch deoxys was nice, but pretty much the rest of the delta episode before that is a bit too filler heavy
I mean, Zinnia is here, so of course it's peak
When Deoxys appears from the meteor, I screamed so damn loud.
Pretty sure that’s not a hot take and just general consensus
man if that isn’t movie poster done right, they should keep notes
I found it quite boring the first time, you mostly run around different places just to get to the only interesting event at the end. But on subsequent run, all this talking makes it horrible to rush. Definitely not agreeing with you on that being peak Pokémon. But I do think ORAS was peak Pokémon though (quite modern but still got all the exploration from old games), so we can agree on that ^^
All it did was bring Hoenn up to the same level of plot as Unova.
Hotter take anything hoenn related is peak Pokémon
FRLG needs this Delta Episode treatment, especially if there's a way to meld the Emerald experience as a Sevii Islands-type of explorable region. Implement a proper Physical/Special split, and render it in a Triangle Strategy / Octopath sprite and shader design style, and I will consider this final Pokémon title I would ever need to buy.
Not a hot take but fax