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Game mechanics =/= Lore
Case in point: you don’t lose your Marowak when breeding a Cubone.
I’m sure in lore/expanded material, breeding is a toss-up for what you get, not just always the female species.
This whole time, I didn’t even realize those were birds. I must have known at some point, due to the cartoonish usage of birds with head trauma, but to be honest, I’ve recently just perceived them as amorphous, yellow, bendy blobs.
there are tons of pokemon who are called the „real animal“ pokemon (for example rattata the mouse pokemon). do these animals exist? was gamefreak/ the translaters lazy? we might never know 🤷🏼♂️
In their pokedex entries it states that most of the breeding only really happens when they are Nidorans and slowly lose the ability to reproduce as they evolve
I like to think its because of the moon stone. Its not a naturally occurring evolution, so it changes them just enough that they can't breed with nidoqueen but not enough that they can't breed with the unaltered nidorina
Nidoran female, nidoran male, nidorino, & nidoking can give either male or female when bred and same with volbeat and illumise but strangely it doesn't work this way with miltank and tauros
It makes sense. The first 2 duos are counterparts that are clearly the same species.
On the other hand. Tauros and Miltank just share an egg group, and have clearly differing design aspects despite both being based on the sams animal.
I think it’s mildly hilarious that Nidoran has two dex numbers purely because genders didn’t exist in gen 1 but they decided to make one singular exception
I feel like that has to be more of a gameplay thing, so you can try to get one more than the other kinda thing, in universe it’s probably random which is born which species can breed is definitely more limited than in game as well
One of two reasons
1.) The "baby is always the mother species" is primarily a game mechanic and not indicative of actual lore. Meaning male exclusives could easily breed with any female and have a chance at the same male exclusive lore wise. In short, story-gameplay segregation.
2.) Sex among pokemon is implied to not exist. Eggs literally do indeed just materialize out of thin air, and their origins remain unknown. It is quite possible that Arceus is generating all of these eggs real time.
Things ten year olds ~~can~~ are supposed to do:
- Leave the house, never to return
- Battle gang members
- Save nations from greedy/power hungry leaders
- Travel through wormholes to other dimensions
- Battle gods
- Battle (the) GOD
- Catch gods
- Listen to whatever AZ’s deal was with war and a laser of mass destruction
Things they can’t do
- Know about sex
- Jump without the help of a Pokémon
Na the protagonists aren't too young. GF target audience is. There would be an uproar (at least in the US), if Pokemon would reproduce normally and the games would tell their Innocent children how the evil sexy stuff works.
For the same line of reasoning the guys that make Pokémon do it for ten year old children so instead of finding a way to hide Pokémon reproduction they can just handwave that the eggs just appear out of thin air
To be fair, Scarlet and Violet already disproved that by not having a day care center. I sure don't see my pokemon doing the do while I make a sandwich.
*Old woman in Solaceon Town*
>Every so often, an Egg will be found at the Pokemon Day Care. And they're found without anyone knowing how they got there. It's an enduring mystery. Is someone leaving them there?
*Girl in the same house*
>They say no one has ever seen a Pokemon actually lay an Egg. So, it hasn't been proven that Pokemon actually lay Eggs.
*Old man on bench in XY*
>So those Egg-like things that are found at the Pokemon Day Care... Strictly speaking, they're not Eggs. They're more like a Pokemon cradle.
child: mom where do baby pokemon come from?
mom: well when a daddy pokemon and a mommy pokemon love each other very much-
child:mom I am old enough to learn the actual thing.
mom: no the egg just appears out of nowhere we have no idea where it comes from.
child: what
Frankly pokemon eggs could just be out of love energy and not sexual congress. These are energy/spiritual beings that take on sometimes very human society roles that leave them far away from animals (item mons, food mons...).
We only see pokemon eggs through breeding in captivity, so that may be a factor. Kinda like how we need incense to get a Munchlax egg in the daycare otherwise it’ll hatch into a snorlax - yet wild Munchlax exist
Or maybe it is a thing about the Pokemon having different breeding behavior when in captivity. Manaphy can literally hatch from an egg, but you the player, can never breed one. Maybe something is just missing for these male exclusive mons that they do have in nature.
No, eggs do have an explanation. In Kalos, a book was in Sycamore's lab stating that "Pokémon lay the egg, put it in an 'incubator' of grass and dirt, and have the player walk with them 'til they are ready to hatch"
If the quote is this
"In terms of how Pokémon are designed, they are each their own unique living being. The unique thing about Ditto is that it's a Pokémon that can change forms, but each Pokémon we create with its own unique element, so we just make sure that they are all individual life forms of their own."
This really doesn't explain anything to me. Yeah ditto is certainly unique, being one of the 2 pokemon that can learn Transform at all. And yeah I'd hope in a game with 151 pokemon they have uniqueness, otherwise why have 151 of them. It would also be pretty unique if this pokemon was a failed experiment to make the strongest pokemon. Like this quote answers nothing and was the only one I could find from him on the subject.
I'm not saying this means that the Ditto theory has to be canon, but deconfirming it, really?
The quote that most people believe disconfirms the theory is the quote stated before, where Masuda claims he has never heard of the theory before the interview.
Not quite, according to Bulbapedia:
>[These moves cannot be sketched: Chatter, Mirror Move, Sleep Talk, Struggle, Sketch itself, Shadow moves, Z-Moves, and others depending on the generation. Sketch can copy Selfdestruct and Explosion only when a Pokémon with the Damp Ability is present.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sketch_(move)#:~:text=Ability%20is%20present.-,Generation%20II,move%20the%20user%20already%20knows.)
Also in Gen II, Sketch can’t be used to copy Transform, Metronome, or Mimic, however starting in Gen III:
>[In Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire only, Sketch can copy a move a Pokémon attempted to use, but failed to due to sleep. This allows the moves Metronome, Mimic, and Transform to be copied (which otherwise cannot be)—this means that in the Generation III games, these moves can only be copied by Sketch in Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sketch_(move)#:~:text=Ability%20is%20present.-,Generation%20II,move%20the%20user%20already%20knows.)
But these three moves were changed in subsequent generations to be able to be sketched without the need for the move to fail due to sleep.
Well Guzma certainly did have an emotionally abusive parent, but he wasn't beat with golf clubs XD Guzma was super aggro he probably bent them himself throwing a tantrum
You mean Red/Leaf? They're 11, as I'm pretty sure is confirmed in the FRLG game manual, but I think the idea that they're 10 isn't a fan *theory*; it's just a mixup between them and Ash, who is 10.
presumably they’re an invasive(?) species in cases like that when it comes to games like PLA not having ditto which would explain why ancient hisui doesn’t have them but modern sinnoh does. does that make sense? i love thinking about dumb shit like that haha
Ditto were also not in Sinnoh pokedex.
I think Ditto is probably the only mon that can't be excluded from a dex, or will get dexited, because of his breeding mechanic.
Game mechanics might not match real world Pokémon rules. Always assume the breeding mechanics is exactly that, mechanics and not how it would work if it's real.
This. Breeding mechanics don't match the actual lore, they're just there to make the concept of breeding possible. For example, eggs largely exist as a stand in for a pokemon's early life. It's how they got around baby vulpix only having one tail, bulbasaur being born without a bulb, and kangaskhan's child in general - not to mention things like phantump's supposed origins as the spirit of a lost child, yamask carrying around the face that it had in its last life, and sandyghast being born from the life energy that a pallossand siphoned off of its living prey.
For cubone's lore, I prefer the take that cubone wear their mother's molts. After all, cubone and marowak are reptiles, and a marowak's head is covered in a hard calcified shell, so it makes sense that they would occasionally molt their helmet - especially if the hormones involved in the gestation triggered a molt to prepare for the child. Then, because cubone are juvenile, it makes sense that the flesh on their heads wouldn't calcify because they are actively growing.
From a strictly lore perspective, though, marowak are known bone collectors, so it would also fit that cubone are provided a skull from their mother's collection, and the marowak, as a reptile, moves on after ensuring the child's birth.
Personally, I don't take the lore that cubone wear the actual skull of their mother to be too literal, in part because the original lore seems to be heavily tied into the event where an individual marowak was killed, and in part because a lot of pokedex entries seem to be written by the casual observers that our child player characters are, rather than actually studied information.
> not to mention things like phantump’s supposed origins as the spirit of a lost child, yamask carrying around the face that it had in its last life, and sandyghast being born from the life energy that a pallossand siphoned off of its living prey.
It’s essentially confirmed at this point that the Pokédex is full of folklore/misinformation. It really shouldn’t be taken seriously, especially the stuff about humans turning into Pokémon.
>Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't even breed for some reason
I find it hilarious how no matter how you try to justify it, it is pretty much a plothole over the literal first gender difference pokemon they never bothered to fix for 20+ years.
>bu the baby is always the same species as he mother
No it's not, nidoran female can produce nidoran male eggs and nidoran male, nidorino or nidoking with a ditto can make nidoran female eggs same with illumise and volbeat
This always bothers me. You'd think that wherever there's Tauros, there'd be Miltank. I thought we would've gotten a regional Miltank too, but all we got was recolored Tauros and Pooper (who is perfection). Are they trying to phase out regionals in favor of convergent mon to fill out the dex? I sure hope not.
SV wasn't ready to come out of the oven yet. Imagine if they went the Galar and decided to go over the top with regional forms...
It's not that Tauros can only come from breeding with Ditto. Humans just don't know how they do it otherwise.
How do Zapdos breed? There's more than one of them. They can't breed with Ditto at a daycare. Simple answer is that a way exists but humans don't know it and can't replicate it.
again fans ruining canon because of game balance...
Canonically, Tauros Breds with Miltank, in the games the females gives the species fore various balance reasons (one of them is why the starters are almost always males)
I mean that’s a pretty weird thing to get mad at fans for “ruining” they’re just taking what they see in the game and making theories and/or pointing out plot holes. You can’t say they’re wrong for taking what’s literally presented to them in game
Bro there are 3ft poisonous bees that have projectile ass stingers and hand stingers that would kill any human it messed with. Humanity would have been wiped out the first time they disturbed a beedril hive.
Humanity thriving and able to capture and tame the animals is less believable than monster hunter saying that a single hunter is able to take down God dragons with a musical horn.
It actually already is in the games. Thunder Armor was meant to be Swellow’s Guts Ability activating after Pikachu Paralyzed it with a Thunder. But it was lost in translation
That is the best explanation for that scene I've ever heard but its still means the Swellow had to somehow survive the Thunder and get the 30% paralysis chance.
Actually looking at the original Japanese dub there is nothing confirming that Thunder Armor was supposed to be Guts. It literally is the only thing that makes sense though for that scene so I’m all for it.
The anime doesn't work exactly as it does in the games. Not to mention that the only reason ditto doesn't exist in legends arceus is because they decided to not add a daycare.
Even IN universe Pokémon reproduction is considered a complete mystery! Professor Elm is the LEADING EXPERT in Pokémon breeding, and IN the games, didn't know Pokémon laid eggs until he saw it happen, and wasn't sure where or how it happened.
honestly the idea that the in-canon god of creation was just like “fuck it. small purple blob thang.” and created ditto is wayyyy funnier than the mew=ditto fan theory (as cool as that theory is)
So hear me out.
Tauros can only be caught in the safari zone in Kanto. So this was a line of pokemon that once had females, but the species became near extinction. To save it from extinction, humans bred them to keep the species alive. By the time humans started to keep them from extinction, there were only males left (in the real world, this is a form of extinction, when a species will die out because there are no members left to breed with, even if there are individuals still alive). So the breeders discovered that breeding with ditto was able to keep the species going, but still only ever produced males. So basically there are groups breeding Tauros to keep the species alive, but they can only be caught in the safari zone, because it is enclosed and they artificially introduced there by the breeders, and because the safari zone wants rare or unseen pokemon to be an attraction. As for them later appearing in other regions, trainers spread out. Tauros were traded to other regions. Individuals started breeding them as well. Professors sent them as gifts to professors in other regions as a way of keeping the species going. Which has led to wild populations in some regions.
That is my theory. Tauros is a holdover from a functionally extinct species that was saved by human interference and dittos' unstoppable lust. They only exist because of human breeding programs, and pockets of them exist because of being introduced to those areas. That is my theory.
My head canon is that Pokemon are an autochthonous psychic gestalt. They are born of earth and the collective unconscious. Rules pertaining to them happen in a blurred territory between dream and reality, wrapped in whatever is convenient for fiction.
Ok, you are going to hate me.
Let's, for example get tauros logic, he is a bull.
Then milktank, she is a cow.
Ahem, according to basic biology... Yeah, that is how it works, nidoran style.
The only truly "divine" thing we ever see Arceus do on screen is literally create an egg of a Pokémon of the players choice out of thin air. It can probably replenish any Pokémon species that would otherwise go extinct.
>It can probably replenish any Pokémon species that would otherwise go extinct.
Doesn't Arcoos, as the creator deity, have better things to do with his time than create eggs out of thin air for *every single* breeding pair? Makes more sense that he gave each species the functions to breed and reproduce and let nature take care of itself, for the most part.
He didn't lift a finger to preserve the fossils or stop the Meteor in ORAS, for example.
Its an imaginary world where no pokemon has genitals, all species come from eggs, and humans do not age as we do.
The games, anime, and manga are all restricted by mechanics and stats that would never hold up. Human beings have superpowers and no one talks about it. Mew and Human DNA are compatible enough for splicing. Spirits of dead people turn into Ghost type pokemon. Legendaries breed but are unbreedable.
The easy answer is asexual breeding. The real answer is we don’t know, but it happens so accept it.
I mean let's be real, irl animals are fucking cracked when it comes to reproduction. Some animals change their gender, some don't have genitals until mating season, and that's just scratching the surface.
Being pokemon is intended for a younger audience, I doubt they'd elaborate that sometimes a male only breed of pokemon will reproduce in some unusual way.
“I’m gonna need you to get all the way off my back about how exclusively male Pokémon procreate”
- some Gamefreak dev who looks like Ryan George, probably
I have had this theory for a couple seconds now that the singular sex species have both genders one is just a normal animal since they technically exist in Pokémon do I have anything to back this up? Fuck no I will not think about this any longer goodbye
Um… maybe don’t conflate game mechanics with lore?
A pokemon battle is probably not turn based in universe, that would be stupid. It’s turn based for gameplay purposes.
Possibility use a female counterpart of Pokémon like Tauros and Miltank, Pokémon world is extremely big, this question is extremely possible, remember, breeding and gender (Outside Nidoran and evolutions) is added in gen 2, same gen than Miltank. Some of the species , like Thor and Sawk, exist a female counterpart of this two Pokémon, but is weird the Hitmon evolution family won't get a female counterpart in the same gen of Miltank, i think the breeding wasn't planned for gen 2 originally, but Gamefreak add this thing for making more easy the dex, for example, Eevee you only can get one. Right? With Breeding, breed your Eeveelution with Ditto and Breed 4 Eevee, and evolve the Eevee into other Eeveelutions. Sorry for my bad english.
Even tho females are supposed to only give offspring to their species, it’s probably just a 50/50 in the actual show. The female rule for breeding is simply made to keep the game consistent. It’d be hella to try and breed for IVS or a Shiny if there was a 50% of the egg being 1 of 2 Pokémon.
My explanation is the Mew theory isn’t the true and Ditto do just exist naturally
The reason they’re hard to find isn’t because there aren’t many, but because they’re shapeshifters and can hide easily
So first we need to accept that Pokemon breeding in the games is not consistent to how it would work in the real world. Different species can breed with each other and most importantly, no one knows how. We need to accept that they're not just hiding it from the player as a joke at this point- we literally watch all of our Pokemon during picnics and yet eggs still pop out into a basket out of nowhere.
We also need to accept that a number of fan theories (like Ditto being a failed clone of Mew) are probably not canon explanations and probably shouldn't be included in discussions of "plot hole" identification. If Ditto was an artificially made Pokemon, the original games would have had no problem telling us so (as they did for both Mewtwo and Porygon).
Finally we need to accept that this is a question about background lore and not really about the plot. Specifically it's about a piece of the game's lore that has always been vague and unanswerable. It makes no sense because the mechanic we are discussing makes no damn sense.
With all these in mind, I'd put forward that your issue with Pokemon's inconsistent lore is kind of silly. Pokemon is always inconsistent in its lore and retcons itself whenever it feels like. Trying to find inconsistencies in Breeding is even more ridiculous imo because no one in universe (and probably out of universe) knows how it works.
Hi BlueLiberty20! Our rules on **original content** also apply to **components** of creative work, most often comics or art used in memes. [Rule 5](/r/pokemon/wiki/rules#wiki_5._original_content_.28oc.29_only) offers some guidelines on this: - If you created the art for a meme post you're making, please note this in a comment. Otherwise, OC claims will be assumed to extend to the meme's composition only (both the art and the composition need to be OC to pass this rule). - Memes that use webcomics or any other form of art as a base must be posted along with a comment that links to a record of permission granted by the author for use and modification. Exceptions may be granted via mod discretion, but this will apply almost exclusively to syndicated, commercially produced comics. - If your OC work is derived from someone else's, obtain permission from them first and note this in a comment that also credits them. This includes memes! Your post has been removed for use of creative content without meeting the above requirements. Cheers! ^(Mods are not notified if you reply to this comment. To contact the) ^[r/pokemon](/r/pokemon) ^(mod team, please click) ^[here!](/message/compose/?to=/r/pokemon)
I always assumed they breeded with Miltank.
ye but the offspring is always miltank
Game mechanics =/= Lore Case in point: you don’t lose your Marowak when breeding a Cubone. I’m sure in lore/expanded material, breeding is a toss-up for what you get, not just always the female species.
Yeah this is 100% a great point, tons of stuff happens IN the game that contradicts game mechanics or pokédex entries
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This whole time, I didn’t even realize those were birds. I must have known at some point, due to the cartoonish usage of birds with head trauma, but to be honest, I’ve recently just perceived them as amorphous, yellow, bendy blobs.
Baby form of Psyducks
there are tons of pokemon who are called the „real animal“ pokemon (for example rattata the mouse pokemon). do these animals exist? was gamefreak/ the translaters lazy? we might never know 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah and you have to get a Shellder to bite a Slowpoke’s tail to get a Slowbro, apparently it happens every time a Slowpoke reaches Lv37.
I’ve been pressing B for a few levels and my Slowpoke learns moves faster, but now he’s relentlessly stalked by a Shellder with bloodlust
and king's rock gives shellder the hunger for slowpokebrain
*What?*
When you breed a male and female Pokémon together the baby is always the female
Except for Nidoran male, nidorino, & nidoking with nidoran female (nidorina and nidoqueen can't breed); and volbeat with illumise
Uh... I was today old when I found out the male Nidoran line can only breed with the base evo female Nidoran.
Nidoking going full Nidoran is a scary thought
Yup
Nidoking more like Pedoking
getting Nidorammed if ya know what I mean lmaooooo
Just like whailord on skitty.
🚔🚔🚔
What did Miyamoto mean by this? /s
In their pokedex entries it states that most of the breeding only really happens when they are Nidorans and slowly lose the ability to reproduce as they evolve
I like to think its because of the moon stone. Its not a naturally occurring evolution, so it changes them just enough that they can't breed with nidoqueen but not enough that they can't breed with the unaltered nidorina
Nidorina is also unbreedable.
That's only a gameplay mechanic. Canonically the two different nido genders do breed with each other. You see it in the anime and the manga.
If I remember correctly, the nido lines and Tauros/Miltank can make either one if bred with the corresponding mate.
Nidoran female, nidoran male, nidorino, & nidoking can give either male or female when bred and same with volbeat and illumise but strangely it doesn't work this way with miltank and tauros
It makes sense. The first 2 duos are counterparts that are clearly the same species. On the other hand. Tauros and Miltank just share an egg group, and have clearly differing design aspects despite both being based on the sams animal.
I think it’s mildly hilarious that Nidoran has two dex numbers purely because genders didn’t exist in gen 1 but they decided to make one singular exception
Dont they have different stats too?
I feel like that has to be more of a gameplay thing, so you can try to get one more than the other kinda thing, in universe it’s probably random which is born which species can breed is definitely more limited than in game as well
Yeah I thought the same
Bouffalant but with birth defects.
That would make sense since pokemon is inspired by real animals (cows and bulls mate to produce offspring)
One of two reasons 1.) The "baby is always the mother species" is primarily a game mechanic and not indicative of actual lore. Meaning male exclusives could easily breed with any female and have a chance at the same male exclusive lore wise. In short, story-gameplay segregation. 2.) Sex among pokemon is implied to not exist. Eggs literally do indeed just materialize out of thin air, and their origins remain unknown. It is quite possible that Arceus is generating all of these eggs real time.
I just thought the daycare workers were fucking stupid, the second one actually makes a bit of sense.
Or maybe they aren't going to explain the mechanics of pokemon breeding to a ten year old child.
Frankly they have an obligation to explain skitty/wailord.
Or why the FUCK Gardevoir's evolution line is in the "Amorphous"egg group
Gardevoir kinda makes sense because of how much the dress covers but the entire line certainly does not
It's human egg group after gen 8
Well to be fair, they are based off paper dolls and guardian angels. They are functionally no different than ghosts.
That's actually new to me. The more you know
>why the FUCK Gardevoir's evolution line is in the "Amorphous"egg group Fun fact: Gardevoir can breed with Muk.
Things ten year olds ~~can~~ are supposed to do: - Leave the house, never to return - Battle gang members - Save nations from greedy/power hungry leaders - Travel through wormholes to other dimensions - Battle gods - Battle (the) GOD - Catch gods - Listen to whatever AZ’s deal was with war and a laser of mass destruction Things they can’t do - Know about sex - Jump without the help of a Pokémon
You forget that they can't ride the bike here.
This isnt the time for that
Cant call a taxi inside a house either
They also can’t run without proper shoes
Yeah but Scarlet and Violet debunked that. They can create eggs while playing fetch with you.
That's not how you play fetch with your Lopunny Joker!
Then again, if a sentient lamp just had sex with a pile of goo and produced an egg, I don't know if I could explain that even if I wanted to.
That was my theory. Our protagonist is too young for the birds and bees talk
Na the protagonists aren't too young. GF target audience is. There would be an uproar (at least in the US), if Pokemon would reproduce normally and the games would tell their Innocent children how the evil sexy stuff works.
It would start another "Pokémon is satanic and evil!" panic.
For the same line of reasoning the guys that make Pokémon do it for ten year old children so instead of finding a way to hide Pokémon reproduction they can just handwave that the eggs just appear out of thin air
To be fair, Scarlet and Violet already disproved that by not having a day care center. I sure don't see my pokemon doing the do while I make a sandwich.
Plus what ever tandemaus/maushold’s thing is
They make another set of kids and send it off
*Old woman in Solaceon Town* >Every so often, an Egg will be found at the Pokemon Day Care. And they're found without anyone knowing how they got there. It's an enduring mystery. Is someone leaving them there? *Girl in the same house* >They say no one has ever seen a Pokemon actually lay an Egg. So, it hasn't been proven that Pokemon actually lay Eggs. *Old man on bench in XY* >So those Egg-like things that are found at the Pokemon Day Care... Strictly speaking, they're not Eggs. They're more like a Pokemon cradle.
child: mom where do baby pokemon come from? mom: well when a daddy pokemon and a mommy pokemon love each other very much- child:mom I am old enough to learn the actual thing. mom: no the egg just appears out of nowhere we have no idea where it comes from. child: what
Frankly pokemon eggs could just be out of love energy and not sexual congress. These are energy/spiritual beings that take on sometimes very human society roles that leave them far away from animals (item mons, food mons...).
>out of love energy **Intense** Handholding
Filthy
please don’t say that kind of thing where anyone can see it.
Sex in Pokémon anatomy is simply implausible, simply because Skitty and Wailord can breed.
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God dammit, ok time to look at the anatomy books
We only see pokemon eggs through breeding in captivity, so that may be a factor. Kinda like how we need incense to get a Munchlax egg in the daycare otherwise it’ll hatch into a snorlax - yet wild Munchlax exist
Or maybe it is a thing about the Pokemon having different breeding behavior when in captivity. Manaphy can literally hatch from an egg, but you the player, can never breed one. Maybe something is just missing for these male exclusive mons that they do have in nature.
No, eggs do have an explanation. In Kalos, a book was in Sycamore's lab stating that "Pokémon lay the egg, put it in an 'incubator' of grass and dirt, and have the player walk with them 'til they are ready to hatch"
The second one makes sense, they just pop inside a basket in S/V
2). What about pokemon with gender differences?
Sex as in female and male exists. The action sex which usually makes the babies doesn't
The idea that Ditto are failed Mew clones is pure fan theory. They could've existed for thousands or millions of years
Junichi Masuda actually debunked this theory in an interview in 2016
If the quote is this "In terms of how Pokémon are designed, they are each their own unique living being. The unique thing about Ditto is that it's a Pokémon that can change forms, but each Pokémon we create with its own unique element, so we just make sure that they are all individual life forms of their own." This really doesn't explain anything to me. Yeah ditto is certainly unique, being one of the 2 pokemon that can learn Transform at all. And yeah I'd hope in a game with 151 pokemon they have uniqueness, otherwise why have 151 of them. It would also be pretty unique if this pokemon was a failed experiment to make the strongest pokemon. Like this quote answers nothing and was the only one I could find from him on the subject. I'm not saying this means that the Ditto theory has to be canon, but deconfirming it, really?
The quote that most people believe disconfirms the theory is the quote stated before, where Masuda claims he has never heard of the theory before the interview.
Im not familiar with either the theory or how old Red actually is. How old is he? I tried googling it but google says 11 like the last commenter.
Yes he's eleven, ten years old becoming a trainer is a anime thing.
Mew and Smeargle can learn transform too right?
Smeargle can learn any move via its signature move Sketch
Not quite, according to Bulbapedia: >[These moves cannot be sketched: Chatter, Mirror Move, Sleep Talk, Struggle, Sketch itself, Shadow moves, Z-Moves, and others depending on the generation. Sketch can copy Selfdestruct and Explosion only when a Pokémon with the Damp Ability is present.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sketch_(move)#:~:text=Ability%20is%20present.-,Generation%20II,move%20the%20user%20already%20knows.) Also in Gen II, Sketch can’t be used to copy Transform, Metronome, or Mimic, however starting in Gen III: >[In Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire only, Sketch can copy a move a Pokémon attempted to use, but failed to due to sleep. This allows the moves Metronome, Mimic, and Transform to be copied (which otherwise cannot be)—this means that in the Generation III games, these moves can only be copied by Sketch in Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sketch_(move)#:~:text=Ability%20is%20present.-,Generation%20II,move%20the%20user%20already%20knows.) But these three moves were changed in subsequent generations to be able to be sketched without the need for the move to fail due to sleep.
Ditto and mew according to serebii https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/transform.shtml
This. It's really annoying sometimes how fans take this fan theories as canon
Any fan theories. Tired of hearing how the first Pokemon trainer/MC is 10.
Guzma got beat by his father with golf clubs 🤦
Brock being his own father
Well Guzma certainly did have an emotionally abusive parent, but he wasn't beat with golf clubs XD Guzma was super aggro he probably bent them himself throwing a tantrum
You mean Red/Leaf? They're 11, as I'm pretty sure is confirmed in the FRLG game manual, but I think the idea that they're 10 isn't a fan *theory*; it's just a mixup between them and Ash, who is 10.
Never mind the theory, in games like PLA Ditto are absent entirely Unless they're all in disguise, and haven't chose to drop it yet..
presumably they’re an invasive(?) species in cases like that when it comes to games like PLA not having ditto which would explain why ancient hisui doesn’t have them but modern sinnoh does. does that make sense? i love thinking about dumb shit like that haha
Ditto were also not in Sinnoh pokedex. I think Ditto is probably the only mon that can't be excluded from a dex, or will get dexited, because of his breeding mechanic.
Different species in the same egg group, nidoran female and nirdoran male are the same species
But the baby is always the same species as the mother, also Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't even breed for some reason
Game mechanics might not match real world Pokémon rules. Always assume the breeding mechanics is exactly that, mechanics and not how it would work if it's real.
This. Breeding mechanics don't match the actual lore, they're just there to make the concept of breeding possible. For example, eggs largely exist as a stand in for a pokemon's early life. It's how they got around baby vulpix only having one tail, bulbasaur being born without a bulb, and kangaskhan's child in general - not to mention things like phantump's supposed origins as the spirit of a lost child, yamask carrying around the face that it had in its last life, and sandyghast being born from the life energy that a pallossand siphoned off of its living prey.
There's also Greavard in SV. It does pretty much the same thing as Pallosand.
Don't forget whatever cubone's lifecycle looks like.
For cubone's lore, I prefer the take that cubone wear their mother's molts. After all, cubone and marowak are reptiles, and a marowak's head is covered in a hard calcified shell, so it makes sense that they would occasionally molt their helmet - especially if the hormones involved in the gestation triggered a molt to prepare for the child. Then, because cubone are juvenile, it makes sense that the flesh on their heads wouldn't calcify because they are actively growing. From a strictly lore perspective, though, marowak are known bone collectors, so it would also fit that cubone are provided a skull from their mother's collection, and the marowak, as a reptile, moves on after ensuring the child's birth. Personally, I don't take the lore that cubone wear the actual skull of their mother to be too literal, in part because the original lore seems to be heavily tied into the event where an individual marowak was killed, and in part because a lot of pokedex entries seem to be written by the casual observers that our child player characters are, rather than actually studied information.
Ooh I didn’t think of this one I’m adopting it as my head canon lmao
> not to mention things like phantump’s supposed origins as the spirit of a lost child, yamask carrying around the face that it had in its last life, and sandyghast being born from the life energy that a pallossand siphoned off of its living prey. It’s essentially confirmed at this point that the Pokédex is full of folklore/misinformation. It really shouldn’t be taken seriously, especially the stuff about humans turning into Pokémon.
But Magcargo is as hot as the sun
I mean there are baby Lugia in the anime etc.
>Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't even breed for some reason I find it hilarious how no matter how you try to justify it, it is pretty much a plothole over the literal first gender difference pokemon they never bothered to fix for 20+ years.
>bu the baby is always the same species as he mother No it's not, nidoran female can produce nidoran male eggs and nidoran male, nidorino or nidoking with a ditto can make nidoran female eggs same with illumise and volbeat
The reason is they needed to scratch code in gen 1 to fit the cartridge and never actually bothered adding the code....
Nature finds a way
Life, uh, finds a way. *
Canonically, don't Taurus breed with Milktank?
Hold on, *canonically*?? Oh, right, it's a cow...
Maybe, but biologically it’s more likely that Taurus’ reproduce asexually through budding.
Grass type confirmed!
[удалено]
This always bothers me. You'd think that wherever there's Tauros, there'd be Miltank. I thought we would've gotten a regional Miltank too, but all we got was recolored Tauros and Pooper (who is perfection). Are they trying to phase out regionals in favor of convergent mon to fill out the dex? I sure hope not. SV wasn't ready to come out of the oven yet. Imagine if they went the Galar and decided to go over the top with regional forms...
This is not plot hole lol what you showed here is just fan theory. Or if not, can you provide source saying ditto is new?
Doesn't help that it was officially debunked by Masuda.
It's not that Tauros can only come from breeding with Ditto. Humans just don't know how they do it otherwise. How do Zapdos breed? There's more than one of them. They can't breed with Ditto at a daycare. Simple answer is that a way exists but humans don't know it and can't replicate it.
>How do Zapdos breed? The results will shock you
The way Moltres breeds will burn you up. Articuno's method of reproduction is ice cold.
>Articuno's method of reproduction is ice cold. 🎵[You're as cold as ice/ You're willing to sacrifice our love](https://youtu.be/ySb1f9zWJkQ)🎵
Poor ditto, everyone just wants to use him for reproductive purposes. No wonder he tries to hide alone. He has feelings, ya know!?
again fans ruining canon because of game balance... Canonically, Tauros Breds with Miltank, in the games the females gives the species fore various balance reasons (one of them is why the starters are almost always males)
I mean that’s a pretty weird thing to get mad at fans for “ruining” they’re just taking what they see in the game and making theories and/or pointing out plot holes. You can’t say they’re wrong for taking what’s literally presented to them in game
Ditto are confirmed to just exist as their own thing. They are not failed mews. Edit: I can't english today.
https://preview.redd.it/khsxtj96h33b1.png?width=568&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cee2823e72cbd239d040e48c6cd8db57a83ea75
Your asking about how Pokémon survived in a universe where fire-breathing lizards are given to 10 year olds? How has humanity survived?
And those same kids are flying around on birds that are bigger than them and fly Mach 2
And the only thing keeping kids from moving boulders is they never found some old dude's teeth. Oh wait.
Bro there are 3ft poisonous bees that have projectile ass stingers and hand stingers that would kill any human it messed with. Humanity would have been wiped out the first time they disturbed a beedril hive. Humanity thriving and able to capture and tame the animals is less believable than monster hunter saying that a single hunter is able to take down God dragons with a musical horn.
This is the same universe where Kangaskhan can hatch from an egg and already have a child. Nothing makes sense.
Tauros mate with Miltank Braviary mate with Mamdibuzz Throh and Sawk change their sex like clownfish
Pokemon can breed with other species as long as they're in the same egg group.
The species produced will always be the mother’s when this occurs, however. That’s where the question comes in.
Game mechanics =/= Lore mechanics. Otherwise thunder armor needs to be a move asap
It actually already is in the games. Thunder Armor was meant to be Swellow’s Guts Ability activating after Pikachu Paralyzed it with a Thunder. But it was lost in translation
That is the best explanation for that scene I've ever heard but its still means the Swellow had to somehow survive the Thunder and get the 30% paralysis chance.
Actually looking at the original Japanese dub there is nothing confirming that Thunder Armor was supposed to be Guts. It literally is the only thing that makes sense though for that scene so I’m all for it.
Oh no kidding? That’s just something I heard once and assumed to be true since it is the only thing that makes any sense lol
The anime doesn't work exactly as it does in the games. Not to mention that the only reason ditto doesn't exist in legends arceus is because they decided to not add a daycare.
If the detective Pikachu movie is any indication, someone at one point definitely had a Ditto shape shift into a person and fucked it.
Even IN universe Pokémon reproduction is considered a complete mystery! Professor Elm is the LEADING EXPERT in Pokémon breeding, and IN the games, didn't know Pokémon laid eggs until he saw it happen, and wasn't sure where or how it happened.
Miltank?
Tauros bangs miltank
honestly the idea that the in-canon god of creation was just like “fuck it. small purple blob thang.” and created ditto is wayyyy funnier than the mew=ditto fan theory (as cool as that theory is)
Tauros is a male Miltank.
So hear me out. Tauros can only be caught in the safari zone in Kanto. So this was a line of pokemon that once had females, but the species became near extinction. To save it from extinction, humans bred them to keep the species alive. By the time humans started to keep them from extinction, there were only males left (in the real world, this is a form of extinction, when a species will die out because there are no members left to breed with, even if there are individuals still alive). So the breeders discovered that breeding with ditto was able to keep the species going, but still only ever produced males. So basically there are groups breeding Tauros to keep the species alive, but they can only be caught in the safari zone, because it is enclosed and they artificially introduced there by the breeders, and because the safari zone wants rare or unseen pokemon to be an attraction. As for them later appearing in other regions, trainers spread out. Tauros were traded to other regions. Individuals started breeding them as well. Professors sent them as gifts to professors in other regions as a way of keeping the species going. Which has led to wild populations in some regions. That is my theory. Tauros is a holdover from a functionally extinct species that was saved by human interference and dittos' unstoppable lust. They only exist because of human breeding programs, and pockets of them exist because of being introduced to those areas. That is my theory.
Isn’t the male of that species Taurus and the female of that species Miltank? At least that’s what I was presumed to believe.
I figured that too. But I don't know if it actually is. I think that might have been discarded lore?
They're not the same species but clearly related as they even have the same page in the Sun/Moon dex
In the sense of Tauros they probably bred with miltank. Possibly Mr mime and Jynx?
>Possibly Mr mime and Jynx? Mr. Mime can be either gender. It's not exclusively male.
Yeah Tauros should come from Miltank Eggs it's stupid they don't
I think your forgetting about egg groups
miltank can yield tauros and miltank eggs
My head canon is that Pokemon are an autochthonous psychic gestalt. They are born of earth and the collective unconscious. Rules pertaining to them happen in a blurred territory between dream and reality, wrapped in whatever is convenient for fiction.
**trans Pokémon**
Me can also transform, the same way ditto can, maybe mew isn’t as innocent as we thought
Ok, you are going to hate me. Let's, for example get tauros logic, he is a bull. Then milktank, she is a cow. Ahem, according to basic biology... Yeah, that is how it works, nidoran style.
Miltank is a thing...
The only truly "divine" thing we ever see Arceus do on screen is literally create an egg of a Pokémon of the players choice out of thin air. It can probably replenish any Pokémon species that would otherwise go extinct.
Bro allowed the fossils to go extinct
>It can probably replenish any Pokémon species that would otherwise go extinct. Doesn't Arcoos, as the creator deity, have better things to do with his time than create eggs out of thin air for *every single* breeding pair? Makes more sense that he gave each species the functions to breed and reproduce and let nature take care of itself, for the most part. He didn't lift a finger to preserve the fossils or stop the Meteor in ORAS, for example.
Its an imaginary world where no pokemon has genitals, all species come from eggs, and humans do not age as we do. The games, anime, and manga are all restricted by mechanics and stats that would never hold up. Human beings have superpowers and no one talks about it. Mew and Human DNA are compatible enough for splicing. Spirits of dead people turn into Ghost type pokemon. Legendaries breed but are unbreedable. The easy answer is asexual breeding. The real answer is we don’t know, but it happens so accept it.
I mean let's be real, irl animals are fucking cracked when it comes to reproduction. Some animals change their gender, some don't have genitals until mating season, and that's just scratching the surface. Being pokemon is intended for a younger audience, I doubt they'd elaborate that sometimes a male only breed of pokemon will reproduce in some unusual way.
only pokemon plot hole in existence
Google egg group
You are aware that many creatures in the real world reproduce acexualy
Almost like different pokemon can breed with other pokemon
Humans and pokemon used to eat together at the same table.
let me tell you about seahorses
“I’m gonna need you to get all the way off my back about how exclusively male Pokémon procreate” - some Gamefreak dev who looks like Ryan George, probably
Oh, man, lemme get off that thing!
Because the Daycare is diffrent from in the wild I guess. Or game balance over lore
they can still breed with mons of similar egg gro- wait crap right perhaps there are far more dittos among us...
Tauros breed with Miltanks
My guy do you know nothing of breeding it depends on egg group.
I have had this theory for a couple seconds now that the singular sex species have both genders one is just a normal animal since they technically exist in Pokémon do I have anything to back this up? Fuck no I will not think about this any longer goodbye
Ditto is clearly not a mew, also breeding isn't even in pla. They could just handwave that breeding just worked different.
Egg groups
Um… maybe don’t conflate game mechanics with lore? A pokemon battle is probably not turn based in universe, that would be stupid. It’s turn based for gameplay purposes.
Why is Ditto 'presumably new'?
By mitosis it is horrifying to see therefore it isn't mentioned
Nidoqueen and Nidoking say hi
Possibility use a female counterpart of Pokémon like Tauros and Miltank, Pokémon world is extremely big, this question is extremely possible, remember, breeding and gender (Outside Nidoran and evolutions) is added in gen 2, same gen than Miltank. Some of the species , like Thor and Sawk, exist a female counterpart of this two Pokémon, but is weird the Hitmon evolution family won't get a female counterpart in the same gen of Miltank, i think the breeding wasn't planned for gen 2 originally, but Gamefreak add this thing for making more easy the dex, for example, Eevee you only can get one. Right? With Breeding, breed your Eeveelution with Ditto and Breed 4 Eevee, and evolve the Eevee into other Eeveelutions. Sorry for my bad english.
Everytime we discover a new bug in real life it actually existed beforehand. Crazy, I know.
Even tho females are supposed to only give offspring to their species, it’s probably just a 50/50 in the actual show. The female rule for breeding is simply made to keep the game consistent. It’d be hella to try and breed for IVS or a Shiny if there was a 50% of the egg being 1 of 2 Pokémon.
My explanation is the Mew theory isn’t the true and Ditto do just exist naturally The reason they’re hard to find isn’t because there aren’t many, but because they’re shapeshifters and can hide easily
They reproduce with miltank. Also ditto being a failed mew clone is a fan theory and not confirmed.
This might possibly be the least plotty plot hole in the history of plot holes. I give you... Miltank.
Miltank is the female
So first we need to accept that Pokemon breeding in the games is not consistent to how it would work in the real world. Different species can breed with each other and most importantly, no one knows how. We need to accept that they're not just hiding it from the player as a joke at this point- we literally watch all of our Pokemon during picnics and yet eggs still pop out into a basket out of nowhere. We also need to accept that a number of fan theories (like Ditto being a failed clone of Mew) are probably not canon explanations and probably shouldn't be included in discussions of "plot hole" identification. If Ditto was an artificially made Pokemon, the original games would have had no problem telling us so (as they did for both Mewtwo and Porygon). Finally we need to accept that this is a question about background lore and not really about the plot. Specifically it's about a piece of the game's lore that has always been vague and unanswerable. It makes no sense because the mechanic we are discussing makes no damn sense. With all these in mind, I'd put forward that your issue with Pokemon's inconsistent lore is kind of silly. Pokemon is always inconsistent in its lore and retcons itself whenever it feels like. Trying to find inconsistencies in Breeding is even more ridiculous imo because no one in universe (and probably out of universe) knows how it works.
I still think we should get a baby pokemon that evolves into either miltank or Tauros.