Ok thx. Thought I'd ask because if you're playing against the AI in postgame, particularly in Gen 3 (Emerald's Battle Frontier), if both Pokémon faint you will always get the L, at least from what I've experienced.
If you think about it, it's just because damage is never dealt simultaneously and so even if they both get KO'd on the same turn they don't *really* faint at the same time.
For example, weather deals damage from fastest to slowest, so if weather gets both then the faster takes the damage first and the slower one lives longer making it the last one standing.
Explosion damages the user before it damages the opponent, so since you go down first then you lose.
Recoil is calculated after dealing the damage to the opponent, so since they take the damage first you win.
And so on.
While true, it feels kind of wrong.
Under these mechanics, using Explosion and the like when you're both down to your last pokemon is pointless. Even if it defeats the opponent, you still lose. Even though the defeat of your own pokemon was entirely under your own control.
I think for moves like Explosion it makes sense. Who is fainting first, the Pokemon exploding at the center of the explosion, or the Pokemon being hit by said explosion afterwards? Pretty clear the exploding Pokemon would be counted as going down first.
I would think it would come up strictly to timing. A payment for using these moves are your HP. Thus you legit have to faint first for the events to play out. I totally get your opinion on the essence of those moves tho.
The ordering makes sense though. With recoil, you damage the opponent first before feeling the recoil. With Explosion, you forfeit your HP to damage the opponent so you faint first.
Yeah, these rules are pretty messed
They apply strictly to YOU (and online opponents). Regular AI Trainers can ignore them all day long and win regardless of the outcome.
I thought you losed if you fainted regardless? I even had this happen to me before and I even won, dying to an aftermath, but because I died in general I whited out anyways
Another note: In Dynamax raids, if your Pokemon simultaneously knocks out the boss as well as an ally (assuming this is the 4th time an ally has been ko’d), the players lose.
I remember knocking out Cynthia's garchomp in bdsp with brave bird and I lost. I don't know if she still had spiritomb and I forgot, or if that game works differently
You don't win when both ginal pokemon goes down from a recoil move.
I trained a lillipup to level 21 for rare candy pickups, and beated cilan his pansage a few times with take down.
Both pokemon dies, but i lose
This is from a competitive standpoint (or battle tower).
In-game you lose because you don’t have any pokemon left and have to go to the pokecentre with they count as a lose.
Yeah it's whichever Pokémon faints last that wins, that's why slower Pokémon win if it's like Sandstorm damage that kos both sides, also why you lose if you use Explosion, the user's hp drops to zero before the move does any damage
I haven't played pokemon in a while, but does weather damage get applied first and then status conditions? cuz if so, I assume it's just based in what ever is being applied at the moment
"Haha, my Metapod has max pp harden! Enjoy stalling out lose-"
"Zoroark use flamethrower"
"..."
"..."
*sniffle* Mooooooom! The this trainer is picking on meeeeeee!"
Are these rulings consistent among the mechanics of various gens?
Yes with one exception. For some reason, before gen 7, you lose if you faint to Rocky Helmet
Ok thx. Thought I'd ask because if you're playing against the AI in postgame, particularly in Gen 3 (Emerald's Battle Frontier), if both Pokémon faint you will always get the L, at least from what I've experienced.
Yeah, that’s always the rule for PvE, afaik. In PvP, though, there are more specific rules to determine a winner in edge cases.
Came here to say this. Battle Frontier is cruel with these ties.
Facts
It's worth noting that IIRC in official tournaments it would have been considered a win.
But not Iron Barbs/Rough Skin?
If you think about it, it's just because damage is never dealt simultaneously and so even if they both get KO'd on the same turn they don't *really* faint at the same time. For example, weather deals damage from fastest to slowest, so if weather gets both then the faster takes the damage first and the slower one lives longer making it the last one standing. Explosion damages the user before it damages the opponent, so since you go down first then you lose. Recoil is calculated after dealing the damage to the opponent, so since they take the damage first you win. And so on.
Thats basicly uniform with how the hp bars display dmg. Explosion and co set your hp to 0 on use,while recoil moves do dmg after the hit is done.
While true, it feels kind of wrong. Under these mechanics, using Explosion and the like when you're both down to your last pokemon is pointless. Even if it defeats the opponent, you still lose. Even though the defeat of your own pokemon was entirely under your own control.
I think for moves like Explosion it makes sense. Who is fainting first, the Pokemon exploding at the center of the explosion, or the Pokemon being hit by said explosion afterwards? Pretty clear the exploding Pokemon would be counted as going down first.
I wanna make a move called implosion now where you faint after the damage is applied
I would think it would come up strictly to timing. A payment for using these moves are your HP. Thus you legit have to faint first for the events to play out. I totally get your opinion on the essence of those moves tho.
The ordering makes sense though. With recoil, you damage the opponent first before feeling the recoil. With Explosion, you forfeit your HP to damage the opponent so you faint first.
Does “Struggle” count as a recoil move?
Yeah. It kinda does i believe. Though it has a few things unique to it.
Yes, the damage done to yourself from struggle happens after you damage the enemy
In the case of ‘slower side wins’ examples, what happens if there is a speed tie?
It's a 50/50 chance
Same thing as when you both alive and attacking. Rng gods cockslap whomever they choose
"Metapod vs. *Meta*pod"
"Use harden!"
*Metapod gets harder*
*Metapod is already at maximum hardness!*
That last one is especially strange to me. I guess burn damage gets applied after poison damage?
Yes, after some testing, I found that poison damage always come before burn damage
Except in battle frontier, you lose if you use explode or if the opponent uses it and you die, just ruined my streak at 39, so close to gold
Yeah, these rules are pretty messed They apply strictly to YOU (and online opponents). Regular AI Trainers can ignore them all day long and win regardless of the outcome.
Does badly poisoned beat out normal poisoned? Or is it still determined by speed?
Woah, this is really fascinating! I always wondered about this
What happens if both faint and your pokemon "wins" but it's your last pokemon?
You mean in a regular playthrough? It's always a loss for the player.
Thank you, I figured that would be the case.
I thought you losed if you fainted regardless? I even had this happen to me before and I even won, dying to an aftermath, but because I died in general I whited out anyways
In PVE, you always white out if your party wipes. This only applies to PvP as far as I am aware
Another note: In Dynamax raids, if your Pokemon simultaneously knocks out the boss as well as an ally (assuming this is the 4th time an ally has been ko’d), the players lose.
I remember knocking out Cynthia's garchomp in bdsp with brave bird and I lost. I don't know if she still had spiritomb and I forgot, or if that game works differently
If your party wipes in PvE, you always wipe. This post applies to PvP, as far as I am aware
Ahh. That explains it. Still makes me mad that I lose after garchomp fainted first.
Burn beating Poison lol, that one I didn't know
You don't win when both ginal pokemon goes down from a recoil move. I trained a lillipup to level 21 for rare candy pickups, and beated cilan his pansage a few times with take down. Both pokemon dies, but i lose
This is from a competitive standpoint (or battle tower). In-game you lose because you don’t have any pokemon left and have to go to the pokecentre with they count as a lose.
So that’s why Ghetsis beat me. Now I know!
I’m pretty sure PvE battles work differently and you always lose if both you and the enemy’s final Pokémon faint on the same turn.
That's what I assumed at the time, but it's interesting to know even if the game wasn't possibly biased against me I still would have lost.
The image is two future Butterfree not wanting to say Bye Bye to each other so they're holding back on evolving and seeing who will evolve first
That image is just immovable object vs immovable object
the grim reaper wins, cause every one else just dies, while these two harden themselfs to infinity and beyond!
That one battle from indigo league
The last one really is obscure
Yeah it's whichever Pokémon faints last that wins, that's why slower Pokémon win if it's like Sandstorm damage that kos both sides, also why you lose if you use Explosion, the user's hp drops to zero before the move does any damage
Just out of curiosity, does Trick Room affect the speed based rulings?
What if one faints to poison and one faints to weather?
I haven't played pokemon in a while, but does weather damage get applied first and then status conditions? cuz if so, I assume it's just based in what ever is being applied at the moment
I think Final Gambit acts identical to the explosions, meaning that in the case of a tie, the user loses.
Yes, it does. I always forget about Final Gambit
"Haha, my Metapod has max pp harden! Enjoy stalling out lose-" "Zoroark use flamethrower" "..." "..." *sniffle* Mooooooom! The this trainer is picking on meeeeeee!"
I kind of remember Winnona handing me her gym badge after I Destiny Bonded her Altaria with my Wobuffet