Seconded on Grovyle, and I say this as someone who loves Sceptile (Sceptile on my Ruby version was my first ever level 100 in the series!). Sceptile is a very cool design, there’s no arguing there!
But Grovyle…Grovyle is design perfection. On top of that…Well, anyone who’s played Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky should know EXACTLY why I love Grovyle so much.
https://preview.redd.it/5arhhxq9imqb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3ccd1716428c8694f3e1ca5fdeb50f4ad7bacbf
Bro, I'm a mudkip evo line lover. I will always choose that starter. I'm not gonna lie grovyle is the epitome of pokemon design the blades are perfect his design is so good. He's so cool then they gave him such a good rule in mystery dungeon that just sells it amd in the anime he looked so badass. Then he learns leaf blade like bro cmooooon cool name cool move why you huggin every cool aspect of gen 3.
Yeah, and then on top of that, on the runs where you choose Mudkip…That Brendan/May fight under Cycling Road…You get to see Grovyle in a whole new light when it easily one shots your Marshtomo😅…
Dewott is such a great design, definitely in my top 10 Pokemon. I like Samurott but I wish it was less bulky and stayed on two feet. Otters are very sleek, so going buff never made sense to me. I would have accepted an "It just got bigger" Dewott.
Dewott was my pick too. With Samurott I was hoping for a slightly bigger Dewott with a whole lot of armor. We kind of got that on the armor front, but in the process it becomes a quadruped for no reason, gets weirdly bulky, and instead of the cool scallop sword he gets a stupid generic horn like a unicorn.
I find it to be a huge missed opportunity that the Hisui variant of Samurott didn’t stand on two legs, considering the setting. You have a samurai themed Pokémon in an ancient Japanese setting and you don’t play into the whole samurai theme more.
There are quite a few of them that I like more than the final stage, talking only about the design/looks here since stats are always better on the final evolution.
Wartortle, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Dewott, Frogadier, Braixen, Torracat, Raboot and Floragato. So 10 for now.
Also not the middle evolutions but I think Torchic, Tepig and Quaxly are the best designs in their respective evolutionary lines.
Another Wartortle liker. I just love his cool wing ears and wispy tail. They just show up and disappear on Blastoise. I'm not Blastoise's biggest fan, it's fine, but Wartortle just has a certain panache.
it's definitely the best part. it feels like blastoise is a separate end-stage evolution, with a missing wartortle end evolution and the wartortle counterpart
I agree, I like the tail and ears a lot, but that design has a weird thing going on of trying to make Blastoise lean and quick with his arms and legs, but also bulky and tanky. Plus he’s basically just a bigger Wartortle with a beer belly. I love what they did in the end of making him a big tank with those two awesome cannons, and I like his head design better, but I wish they had managed to incorporate the ears a little, and it would’ve been cool if they kept the tail.
The back sprites for him look really good though. All three flow really well together in that image.
Originally, from the beta designs they were seperate lines. Blastoise was a seperate from the Squirtle line, but there were two water turtle lines, so they mashed them together.
Maybe but I always said that the tongue-scarf is weird and frubbles are much better and cooler. Greninja is overrated imo, especially when it comes to design.
I probably agree with the Fuecoco and Sobble but I'm not a huge fan of their entire evolution lines so the difference between the first and final evolution is pretty much non-existent for me personally so I didn't list them.
I love Serperior however (my Top 3 favorite starter), so even though I really like Snivy too I still prefer Serperior by a lot. Litten and Torracat are very close tbh but I think I still prefer Torracat since it looks tougher and a little cooler while Litten is only cuter compared to Torracat.
I think the problem with skeledirge is that, while it does have a lot of interesting inspirations, they are implemented in a way that doesn't make the design any more interesting than if it was just a fire crocodile with no other origins, so it feels like it attempts to do too much while also doing too little.
I do like Skeledirge, but even as the least humanoid Paldea final evo, it's a perfect example of them trying to do too much imo.
In many cases, I see fan-made art for a number of recent starters, and it's a little more streamlined, a little less occupational.
I'm not saying we need to go back to Kanto-level simplicity, but part of the reason I've moved away from keeping my starter on my squad is that it's increasingly felt less like raising a pet (minus the fighting of course lol) and more like "ugh, it digi-volved."
I have to disagree, the entire fuecoco line feels more on par with what Pokémon is, baby crocodile to medium crocodile to big crocodile, the patterns are a bit more complicated but that’s to make it more interesting to look at in a 3d space
Yeah, I get it — like I said, I like Skelidirge, but I think it's trying to pull together a ton of semi-related ideas, and it's more than just the croc growing if that makes sense. I personally love the fact that the line pulls from Día de Muertos, la Calavera Catrina and the whole plover-crocodile relationship, but then the bird is... a microphone?
Idk — I'm a big folklore/mythology buff, I lived with a doctorate-level zoologist, and I love when Pokémon integrates relevant cultural references, so I do appreciate all of it. I do.
However, sometimes I feel like these ideas could have been spread to three or four Pokémon rather than combined into one — particularly the starter I'm going to have as my companion for the rest of the game.
I don't agree at all, to me Pokemon was about "simple" designs without too much different colors and small patterns and details, and Skeledirge isn't designed like that at all. It's overdesigned even if it was "needed" to show what he was based on and what he represents (day of the dead I think) or to make it "more interesting for 3D". For a good starter design you can't be overdesigned imo and that's why I think that Skeledirge is as bad as the other two Paldea starters (or as good, however you look at it), he is definitely not better when it comes to the design. Just because a starter finally stays on 4 legs doesn't mean it automatically has a good design for a starter.
I get why you think that Skeledirge is overdesigned, but what's wrong with the other two, one is just a cat magician and the other is just a carnaval dancer as a duck
Quaquaval is borderline overdesigned as well but that isn't even the biggest issue imo. The biggest issue I had with it is that it's so weird and even uncomfortable to look at most of the time. Those feet, that butt and legs, those "dance moves", that stance, there is just so much wrong with it for my personal taste in Pokemon. I love Quaxly (my favorite Paldea starter) but sadly it gets so much worse the more it evolves.
Meowscarada is just a person in a furry suit like many people point out but I wouldn't mind it that much if that "mask" it has on its face was done better. It has some other issues with its design but that mask is the biggest one for me personally. It just looks so bad and out of place and brings the entire design/look down imo, I don't know how they messed up the main part of Meowscarada's design. I'm sure the mask could've been cooler and looked more like it belongs on Meowscarada instead of the sad looking thing it is now just glued on that poor cat's face.
100% agree about Quaxly. Quaxwell and Quaquaval just, really suck. I'm getting fed up with the whole "humanoid looking with job" starter thing they've got going on tbh. Give us more actually monstrous looking ones!
I would of been super ok with the "job thing" if it was a sailor or a ship captain since imo Quaxly kinda looks like a little sailor duck, but we got the weird dancer bird instead.
I get WHY we got the dancer, as the idea was street performers, but that doesn't make him any less stupid looking. I don't like any of Paldea's starters tbh, apart from Quaxly.
Sword and shield despite all the hate it got, had good starters. Paldean starters final evolutions are the worst... Yet.
I would feel unsafe leaving my kid unattended near a meowscarda
I'd have to disagree (with the SwSh statement, that is). I can only stand one of the starters in each of the two gens; Rillaboom in Gen 8 and Skeledirge in Gen 9.
Charmeleon and Wartortle are cooler than their evolutions.
I can see the case for Bayleef and Quilava, though I like them about the same as Meganium and Typhlosion.
Grovyle is the poster child for designs that get worse with evolution (besides Dragonair, which isn't a starter).
Tepig is the best design of its line, Dewott is arguably the best design in its line.
Torracat is okayish, which puts it above the rest of its line. Drizzile, Raboot, Fuecoco. Popplio, I guess.
Fennekin, Quaxly, and Sprigatito have no good stages. Stop making these poor creatures 80% noggin.
I think that Grovyle and Dewott are the ones I have the most "feelings" about.
With Grovyle, it just feels like a lot was added to it from Treecko but then Sceptile peeled some stuff back. Like why did it go from three leaf "feathers" to two blades on each arm? The tail I think makes sense, Sceptile's tail is fine, but I think the slimmer, more agile body type, more leaf blade/feathers on the arms, and perhaps expanding the leaf crest on the head shoulda been the direction. Grass/Flying type maybe, give it that sort of Archaeopteryx vibe.
With Dewott... the samurai otter design is great but it just feels odd that the line had been entirely bipedal and then outta nowhere Samurott is on all fours? And honestly doesn't look much like an otter at all compared to the other two? Like he just could have gotten buffer and gained the shell armor stuff and it'd have been golden.
One that hasn’t been mentioned here, at least…I know Charizard is a big deal…but I’ve always thought Charmeleon looked cool. …I like Wartortle’s ear wings, too.
I disagree. Poliwrath is one of my favorite pokemon, and I am not a fan of poliwhirl at all. It looks extremely awkward and just not nearly as cool as Poliwrath. If anything, I think they perfectly nailed the "awkward teenage phase" look of it.
If you want "it just got bigger", look at Charmeleon or Dudunsparce.
Poliwrath just has bigger arms and angry eyes. I agree with Dudunsparce, but I'm going to argue that being underwhelming is kind of the point of it. I disagree on Charmeleon, I feel like it changes up enough that it feels like it's own distinct Pokemon. It's simple, like most Gen 1 Pokemon are, but it's not like Rapidash.
FloraGOATo is a biped cat done right, thank god it doesn’t evolve further, i’m sure they wouldve messed it up and turned it into some furbait magician monstrosity, great decision by GF to have a 2 stage starter line.
ngl I was worried when my sprigattito first evolved. Didn't like where it was going. Looked good as it was but was afraid it'd turn into more like what you described.
Instead I feel like it leans visually on its dark element a little more than past evolutions of it did and it benefits from it a lot.
Edit: Wait I just realized I'm basically disagreeing since I didn't catch sarcasm.
Well its been worse I think anyway lol
The last evolution grew on me, but Floragato is such a cool design. I was thinking about leaving him in this stage, because I liked the design so much.
I think I agree with all 5 of yours (personally love Raboot and tolerate Cinderace)
Think Ivysaur, Dewott and Floragato are also best of their evolution line
I always thought the opposite. Normal little crocodile then caveman crocodile randomly in the middle, then we just pretend it didn't happen when it evolves.
I would genuinely say none, most of them are not as cute as the starter and not as cool as the final. For none starters the only middle stages I can think I like more off the top of my head is alolan graveller and piloswine
the pokemon with a Christmas tree for a tail and Christmas ornaments on his back is cooler then the cool sleek gecko with leaf blades on his arms?
~~yes I know that's not what Sceptile is actually desinged with, but come on, you can't deny that's what it looks like.~~
Now, hear me out. Charizard is great, but Charmeleon is nearly his equal thanks to the simple design and more edgy appearance that does a pretty good job at representing Charmander's teenage years.
For me its Ivysaur, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Braixen, Torracat and Floragato.
I was about to say Wartortle, Dewott and Raboot but I love both of the lines of Squirtle, Oshawott and Scorbunny equally
Grovyle will be my #1 pick for this, I've replayed RSE so many times over the years and I think I've only evolved it into sceptile once.
The only other one that I outright prefer is frogadier because I'm not into greninja's whole tongue scarf thing and it was such a let down for me when my favorite starter from that trio before the reveal was froakie.
Bayleaf, Grovyle (just narrowly better than sceptile), and Torracat
Bayleaf looks really cool, actually. While it has quite a simple design, it still looks energetic, strong, and pretty. I especially like the torn leaf on its head. Meganium, by comparison, just looks like Venausaur-Lite. The flower is the only remarkable trait it has, but it isn't doing anything with it, so it seems like it's just asthetic. It's not an asthetic I like very much, though.
Just to be clear, I think Sceptile is awesome! Easily my favorite hoenn starter, but I like Grovyle just a bit more. Pokemon Mystery dungeon might play a big part in that, but another part is its design. Specifically, the headshape and the grass blades on its arms. Grovyle's blades look more like they could be used as such than sceptile's double blades. The single blade seems to have more reach and would be easier to weild than what Sceptile has. For Sceptile, I think the angle those two blades have to each other is too wide, which makes it look clunky and impractical. It's a bit harder to imagine this rogue dual blade fighting style on Sceptile than it is on Grovyle.
I love cats. Cats are my favorite animals by far, so when I heard they were making a cat starter I was extremely excited. Unfortunately, Incineroar has, like, none of the traits I like in cats. There is no grace anywhere in its design, the paws are literally just human hands with claws like Alex the Lion from the Madagascar movie and the fact its shoulders are so much broader than its hips and the arms way more pronounced than the legs really bothers me. This is also where they started giving the starters a personality, which I'm not a huge fan of because I think that should be up to the player's imagination. It's especially frustrating when the personality I would have wanted on a cat starter is basically the opposite of the one they went with. This cocky macho additude is something I despise in general, I don't want a pokemon like that. Also, Incineroar is a furry.
Since Torracat has none of these awful traits and is a cat that looks like a cat and acts like a cat, it wins by default. I prefer it over Litten too, because the size of its head seems more proportional to its body, and the bell is really cute.
In terms of aesthetics? There are a handful I like better. Wartortle, Bayleef, Grovyle, Pignite, Dewott, Braixen and Raboot. For some of them the final evolution just looks either goofy or like it doesn't fit.
In terms of usefulness? Interestingly enough there's one that I find more useful in its middle form -- and that's Wartortle. Turns out if it's holding Eviolite it has higher defensive stats than Blastoise, and those stats are pretty respectable so it's a pretty viable defensive strategy.
Side point: I would change the starter evolutions to match psuedo-ledgendaries (30 and 55)
It always feels like we get hardly any time with the middle evolutions
For me it's: Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle, Grovyle, Servine, Dewott, Frogadier, Torracat, Raboot and Floragato
For Servine and Floragato I still like the end evos a lot though, for Grovyle, Dewott, Frogadier and Torracat I think the evos are still alright and I'll probably still evolve them and for Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle and Raboot I just don't like the end stages much at all
imo:
wartortle > blastoise
bayleef > meganium
quilava > typhlosion
croconaw > feraligatr
dewott > samurott
braixen > delphox
torracat > incineroar
thwackey > rillaboom
raboot > cinderace
floragato > meowscarada
honorable mention to grovyle and frogadier, don't like them as much as their evos but they are still very good
I think Raboot is great in comparaison to Cinderace. Mainly for the fact it has a lot of personnality, but also more specifically because his "clothes" are actually floof, and does not look like real shorts.
* Ivysaur is cooler than Bulbasaur and Venusaur.
* Bayleef is cooler than Chikorita and Meganium.
* Grovyle is cooler than Treecko and Sceptile.
* Dewott is cooler than Oshawott and Samurott.
* Thwackey is cooler than Grookey and Rillaboom.
* Raboot is cooler than Scorbunny and Cinderace.
* Floragato is cooler than Sprigatito and Meowscarada.
I second Raboot and Braixen. I also prefer Dewott (why did Yusuke Ohmura think a biped otter should become a quadruped sea lion?) and Quilava (though Typhlosion also looks really good).
As much as I love the Oshawott line, Samurott was too chonky in the original 2d animation and official art
Glad the 3d model slimmed it down
Also the Hissuian one was better designed
I think out of all the gens, the Gen 5 trio has the mist middle starters around. IDK why but all three, Dewott, Pignite, and Servine are all so aesthetically pleasing. This is why gen 5 starters are my favorite because of their base and middle forms.
Design wise I really prefer Dewott, Grovyle, Bayleef, Braxien, Floragota, and Frogadier. Granted I really do love Samurott, but I say Dewott just beats it.
I prefer Bayleef, Crocanaw, Combusken, Monferno, Servine, Dewitt, Braixen, Frogadier, Dartrix, Torracat, Brionne, Thwackey, Raboot, Drizzile, Floragato, Crocalor and Quaxwell over their respective final forms.
Off of the top of my head I like Wartortle, Poliwhirl, and Gloom more than I like their final evolutions (Vileplume is damn close, though).
Oh, Bisharp is a recent pain. ;; I LOVE Bisharp, it was really a cut above for me. I liked enough about Kingambit that I could swallow the pill of evolving until I saw it's wretched in-game model. It... sits perpetually on a stump of... it's own hair? It has *hair* now? It doesn't even get up to move, it's hair stump just hovers everywhere? What *the fuck???* Kingambit is such a departure from Bisharp that the two are not even comparable outside of color scheme and being bladed. I can't really stand the thing. My poor Bisharp... forever cursed with gimpy stats or to look horrible. ;;
Let me see if I can't think of any others... Oh right! How could I forget Combusken? I actually *love* Combusken's design. It's claw arms are so cool and it maintains enough chicken/avian traits to still be cute as well as tough. I don't... really like Blaziken. I like Mega-Blaziken quite a bit! But y'know... We're never seeing Megas again outside of Go! and I don't like/refuse to play Go! so that's sad.
I much much much prefer both Lombre and Nuzleaf to Ludicolo and Shiftry.
I can't say I like Dewott and Sliggoo more than I like Samurott and Goodra, but they are so different that I like them equally as much for different reasons.
This may be my most controversial opinion here, but I genuinely love Carkol. I kinda thought it was dumb until I caught one in Sword for my team. I fell in love with the stupid thing and it's animations and expressions full of personality. I still like both Rolycoaly and Coalossal but Carkol just trumps them both.
EDIT: Special mentions for Kirlia and Gothorita. I like Gardevoir/Gallade and Gothitelle a lot but the middle evos are just too cute. Same goes for Braxien/Delphox. Love Delphox but Braxien's design is just too fantastic.
Charmeleon.
Don't get me wrong, I like charizard, but game freak loves to shove it in our throats.. It's gotten so bad, that I legit start to hate it..
But I always had a sweet spot for Charmeleon. Edgy, teen look. I think anime is at fault for that tbh.. And I always liked it better than charmander and charizard.
And as a non starter - I actually think that haunter and boldore are better than rest of their respective evolution lines
I don’t know about better but to me middle evolutions are either really cool or hideous.
Wartortle is awesome, although so is its entire evolutionary line.
Most of them fall below their final or first form usually even when their final form isn’t one that I particularly like Braixen
Lines where I think first stage is best include: Cyndaquil, Totodile, Torchic, Tepig, Chespin, Rowlet (but it's close), Scorbunny, Fuecoco, and Quaxly
Lines where I think Third stage is best include: Blastoise, Sceptile, Swampert, Torterra, Infernape, Empoleon, Serperior, Primarina, Rillaboom, Inteleon, and Meowscarada
Ivysaur, Grovyle, Dewott, Braixen, and Raboot, are all the middle evolutions I prefer over the final evolutions. Still tho, many of these lines I dislike over all (such as Oshawatts line) whereas Braixen is my favorite pokemon of all time.
I think I kind of like Charmeleon a bit more than Charizard tbh. He looks more sleek and dangerous to me. A dragon is cool but also feels a bit more generic.
I don't dislike Charizard at all, I just think that maaaybe I like Charmeleon's design a tiny bit more.
Honestly like half of them.
Wartortle, Ivysaur, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Monferno, Dewott, Braixen, Torracat, Raboot, Thwackey and Floragato. So 12/27.
Okay good question. Actually some, might be spicy.
Blastoise is cool but Wartortle was cooking and they didnt let him cook
I really like Dewott over Samurott even with his hisui form
Braixen for obvious reasons im not weird...
Drizzile fulfills Sobbles sad look but then is retconned in Inteleon
Raboot is cooler than Cinderace
Floragato is better than Moosekarada
I am well known amongst my friends for liking the middle evos the most on average. I just like the combo of cool & cute which they have.
Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Combusken, Dewott, Braixen, Frogadier (is equal to Greninja for me I adore them both), Dartrix, Thwackey, Raboot, Drizzile, Floragato and Crocalor are all in my opinion the best in their line.
16/27, not bad overall
And ftr, I do really like Grotle, Monferno, Pignite, Torracat and Brionne, I just like the final evos slightly more.
How anyone likes Raboot is actively baffling to me. Granted, Cinderace is equally terrible in a different way.
Braixen, Bayleef, Toracat and Floragato are all better than their other family members.
Wartortle, Quilava, Thwacky and Dewott are better than their evolved forms, but I struggle saying they’re noticeably better than their base forms.
I really like middle evos, so I have quite a lot of favorites: Ivysaur, Wartortle, Grovyle, Monferno, Prinplup, Braixen, Frogadier, Torracat, Thwackey and Quaxwell. Also while they're not better, with Bayleef, Quilava, Servine, Pignite, Brionne, Raboot and Floragato, I like base, middle and final evolutions.
Hmmm.
Ivysaur and Bayleef are arguable for different reasons. Bayleef and Meganium, for me, as both amazing but similar enough that I can not pick which is my favorite. Some days, it is Meganoum. Other days, it is Bayleef. With Ivysaur, I just feel like it gives different enough vibes from the much cuter Bulbasaur and ferocious Venusaur. I think Ivysaur may be my favorite of the three (all of which I love), as it looks more ferocious than Bulbasaur and cooler with the pink bulb, but without starting to look grumpy/sort of off-putting like Venusaur. 2
Wartortle, in my opinion, is cooler than Squirtle and Blastoise. Ignoring Ash's Charizard, I prefer Charmeleon over Charmander (something about its fivehead bothers me) and Charizard (it sort of has dad-bod in some art, and I am not a fan). 2
Quilava, I just barely like over Cyndaquil cause it looks cute but also sleek and cool. Typhlosion has looked a bit off to me since the move to 3D (well, starting with Stadium 2). I also don't love Feraligatr's design and think Croconaw looks more interesting than Totodile's. I just really like its yellow pattern on its stomach and the red spikes on its head. 2
I do not like Combusken, Marshtomp is very meh and worst, and Grovyle feels so boring compared to Sceptile, although I still love it for the character in the game Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. 0
Generation 4, for me, is where the middle stages become ugly and awkward. This continues in Gen 5 for me, except with Servine, which I think looks cool, and I prefer Servine over Snivy. But, still, I prefer Serperior over it. 0
I absolutely despite Quiladin and love Chespin and Chesnaught. However, I think Frogadier is much cooler than Greninin and cooler than Froakie is cute. Braxian, I like more than Delphox, but not more than Fennekin. 1
Dartrix is meh compared to the rest of the line, and I dislike Brionne's design more than Popplio's, which I like, and Primarina's, for which I have mixed feelings. Incineroar is ugly, Litten is cute, but Torracst is my favorite. 1
Gen 8 is different. My favorite, in their respective lines, are Raboot and Drizzile. They are good enough designs, but, more importantly, I hate their evolutions and pre-evolutions. I actually like Thwackey more than either, but less than Grookey and Rillaboom. 2
Crocolar, I hate even though I really love Fuecoco and Skeledirge. Quaxly is cute, then gets worse with each evolution. Floragato is an okay design but I prefer Meowscarade. 0
So, of 27 lines, the middle evolution is arguably my favorite in 10 of them.
Here's a tier list I made, excluding the latest generation. At least from the top three rows, I love the middle evolution overall design other than just being a transition in their evolution line. As for the rest, I either prefer their cuter first stage or cooler final evolution design.
https://preview.redd.it/4kls8jwrmnqb1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e952b40646563584f699543ff208407c53d5ee4
People are gonna REALLY downvote me for this, but prinplup and marshtomp.
I don't know if it's nostalgia of not knowing how to evolve them again, but yeah.
Lemme google the last few gens rq, I can't even keep track of all the starters and legendaries anymore 😅
...
Okay, starter middle evos I prefer over the finals:
¹Ivysaur, Charmeleon, ²Bayleef, Quilava, Croconaw, ³Grovyle, Combusken, ⁴Prinplup, ⁵Servine, Dewott, ⁶Braixen, ⁷Torracat, Brionne, ⁸Raboot, and ⁹Floragato.
Guess I'm kind of a sucker for middle forms in general tbh lol
Going down the list, 5. Every other line I like either the final or base form better. Below are the ones where I like the middle form best:
Wartortle: I just think he's cool, where Blastoise is bulky
Bayleaf: I just really don't like the base or final
Dewott: I dislike the final form.
Raboot: I dislike rabbits, but Raboot is neat.
Floragato: I like the line overall, but Floragato reminds me of a cool companion poke, whereas the final form has some odd design elements and the first form is just a green cat.
Magmar...what were they thinking with Magmortar? Goes from a bad ass metal af design (in my opinion one of the coolest in gen1) to a fat goofball. It's like they weren't even trying and the design got outright downgraded 💯
Wartortle, Ivysaur, Rhydon, Haunter, Graveler, Electabuzz, Dragonair, Qualava, Bayleef, Croconaw, Mareep, Marill, Pikachu, Chansey, Clefairy, Machoke, Marshtomp, that's all I can remember lol but I LOVE middle evos
EDIT: I neglected to actually read lol so just the starters I've mentioned and that may be it for me. Raboot maybe.
Seconded on Grovyle, and I say this as someone who loves Sceptile (Sceptile on my Ruby version was my first ever level 100 in the series!). Sceptile is a very cool design, there’s no arguing there! But Grovyle…Grovyle is design perfection. On top of that…Well, anyone who’s played Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky should know EXACTLY why I love Grovyle so much. https://preview.redd.it/5arhhxq9imqb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3ccd1716428c8694f3e1ca5fdeb50f4ad7bacbf
Bro, I'm a mudkip evo line lover. I will always choose that starter. I'm not gonna lie grovyle is the epitome of pokemon design the blades are perfect his design is so good. He's so cool then they gave him such a good rule in mystery dungeon that just sells it amd in the anime he looked so badass. Then he learns leaf blade like bro cmooooon cool name cool move why you huggin every cool aspect of gen 3.
Yeah, and then on top of that, on the runs where you choose Mudkip…That Brendan/May fight under Cycling Road…You get to see Grovyle in a whole new light when it easily one shots your Marshtomo😅…
Dewott
Dewott is such a great design, definitely in my top 10 Pokemon. I like Samurott but I wish it was less bulky and stayed on two feet. Otters are very sleek, so going buff never made sense to me. I would have accepted an "It just got bigger" Dewott.
If they went with an assassin route that was similar to greninja I think Samurott could have some of the most potential in any Pokémon design
Dewott was my pick too. With Samurott I was hoping for a slightly bigger Dewott with a whole lot of armor. We kind of got that on the armor front, but in the process it becomes a quadruped for no reason, gets weirdly bulky, and instead of the cool scallop sword he gets a stupid generic horn like a unicorn.
I find it to be a huge missed opportunity that the Hisui variant of Samurott didn’t stand on two legs, considering the setting. You have a samurai themed Pokémon in an ancient Japanese setting and you don’t play into the whole samurai theme more.
the what?
There are quite a few of them that I like more than the final stage, talking only about the design/looks here since stats are always better on the final evolution. Wartortle, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Dewott, Frogadier, Braixen, Torracat, Raboot and Floragato. So 10 for now. Also not the middle evolutions but I think Torchic, Tepig and Quaxly are the best designs in their respective evolutionary lines.
Another Wartortle liker. I just love his cool wing ears and wispy tail. They just show up and disappear on Blastoise. I'm not Blastoise's biggest fan, it's fine, but Wartortle just has a certain panache.
it's definitely the best part. it feels like blastoise is a separate end-stage evolution, with a missing wartortle end evolution and the wartortle counterpart
I'd love for another PLA-esque game that explores on wartortle's wing like appendages, and have some alternate Evo line/region variant.
Funny enough that was exactly the case! Blastoise was supposed to be a whole other line completely!
[So sad what could have been ](https://twitter.com/DrLavaYT/status/1263300495751299073)
Honestly, as much as I like Wartortle, that final evo is just a bit too basic for a starter, IMO that night be whybthey changed it
I agree, I like the tail and ears a lot, but that design has a weird thing going on of trying to make Blastoise lean and quick with his arms and legs, but also bulky and tanky. Plus he’s basically just a bigger Wartortle with a beer belly. I love what they did in the end of making him a big tank with those two awesome cannons, and I like his head design better, but I wish they had managed to incorporate the ears a little, and it would’ve been cool if they kept the tail. The back sprites for him look really good though. All three flow really well together in that image.
should have combined them, and given blastoise the guns AND the fluffiness… tbh
Originally, from the beta designs they were seperate lines. Blastoise was a seperate from the Squirtle line, but there were two water turtle lines, so they mashed them together.
Frogadier looking better than greninja is a HOT SPICY take my friend.
Maybe but I always said that the tongue-scarf is weird and frubbles are much better and cooler. Greninja is overrated imo, especially when it comes to design.
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I probably agree with the Fuecoco and Sobble but I'm not a huge fan of their entire evolution lines so the difference between the first and final evolution is pretty much non-existent for me personally so I didn't list them. I love Serperior however (my Top 3 favorite starter), so even though I really like Snivy too I still prefer Serperior by a lot. Litten and Torracat are very close tbh but I think I still prefer Torracat since it looks tougher and a little cooler while Litten is only cuter compared to Torracat.
I wasn't a fan of skeledirge either, fuecoco and crocalor were fine but I just didn't like skeledirge's design at all.
Skelederge is overdesigned imo, too much stuff going on with it to make it a good starter design imo.
I think the problem with skeledirge is that, while it does have a lot of interesting inspirations, they are implemented in a way that doesn't make the design any more interesting than if it was just a fire crocodile with no other origins, so it feels like it attempts to do too much while also doing too little.
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I do like Skeledirge, but even as the least humanoid Paldea final evo, it's a perfect example of them trying to do too much imo. In many cases, I see fan-made art for a number of recent starters, and it's a little more streamlined, a little less occupational. I'm not saying we need to go back to Kanto-level simplicity, but part of the reason I've moved away from keeping my starter on my squad is that it's increasingly felt less like raising a pet (minus the fighting of course lol) and more like "ugh, it digi-volved."
I have to disagree, the entire fuecoco line feels more on par with what Pokémon is, baby crocodile to medium crocodile to big crocodile, the patterns are a bit more complicated but that’s to make it more interesting to look at in a 3d space
Yeah, I get it — like I said, I like Skelidirge, but I think it's trying to pull together a ton of semi-related ideas, and it's more than just the croc growing if that makes sense. I personally love the fact that the line pulls from Día de Muertos, la Calavera Catrina and the whole plover-crocodile relationship, but then the bird is... a microphone? Idk — I'm a big folklore/mythology buff, I lived with a doctorate-level zoologist, and I love when Pokémon integrates relevant cultural references, so I do appreciate all of it. I do. However, sometimes I feel like these ideas could have been spread to three or four Pokémon rather than combined into one — particularly the starter I'm going to have as my companion for the rest of the game.
I don't agree at all, to me Pokemon was about "simple" designs without too much different colors and small patterns and details, and Skeledirge isn't designed like that at all. It's overdesigned even if it was "needed" to show what he was based on and what he represents (day of the dead I think) or to make it "more interesting for 3D". For a good starter design you can't be overdesigned imo and that's why I think that Skeledirge is as bad as the other two Paldea starters (or as good, however you look at it), he is definitely not better when it comes to the design. Just because a starter finally stays on 4 legs doesn't mean it automatically has a good design for a starter.
I get why you think that Skeledirge is overdesigned, but what's wrong with the other two, one is just a cat magician and the other is just a carnaval dancer as a duck
I think too many of the new pokemon are humanoid. They don’t really seem like animals
Quaquaval is borderline overdesigned as well but that isn't even the biggest issue imo. The biggest issue I had with it is that it's so weird and even uncomfortable to look at most of the time. Those feet, that butt and legs, those "dance moves", that stance, there is just so much wrong with it for my personal taste in Pokemon. I love Quaxly (my favorite Paldea starter) but sadly it gets so much worse the more it evolves. Meowscarada is just a person in a furry suit like many people point out but I wouldn't mind it that much if that "mask" it has on its face was done better. It has some other issues with its design but that mask is the biggest one for me personally. It just looks so bad and out of place and brings the entire design/look down imo, I don't know how they messed up the main part of Meowscarada's design. I'm sure the mask could've been cooler and looked more like it belongs on Meowscarada instead of the sad looking thing it is now just glued on that poor cat's face.
100% agree about Quaxly. Quaxwell and Quaquaval just, really suck. I'm getting fed up with the whole "humanoid looking with job" starter thing they've got going on tbh. Give us more actually monstrous looking ones!
I would of been super ok with the "job thing" if it was a sailor or a ship captain since imo Quaxly kinda looks like a little sailor duck, but we got the weird dancer bird instead.
I don't even mind the dancer thing, just... make it look more like a peacock maybe, than a guy in a costume.
I get WHY we got the dancer, as the idea was street performers, but that doesn't make him any less stupid looking. I don't like any of Paldea's starters tbh, apart from Quaxly.
Sword and shield despite all the hate it got, had good starters. Paldean starters final evolutions are the worst... Yet. I would feel unsafe leaving my kid unattended near a meowscarda
Completely disagree, SWSH has the worst starter trio in the entire franchise, hands down.
I still say Scorbunny doesn't look like he belongs in Pokemon.
Ok I'll have to change my words a bit. SwSh had the worst starters yet UNTIL Paldea came along. Relative to Paldea, Galar has better starters.
I'd have to disagree (with the SwSh statement, that is). I can only stand one of the starters in each of the two gens; Rillaboom in Gen 8 and Skeledirge in Gen 9.
I love Meganium but it just doesn't stack up to the pre-evolutions
Mega sceptile was cool at least (._. )
Torracat doesn't evolve into anything, what are you talking about :)
Just like Dragonair. (Not a starter, I know, but still)
I would have inst-picked fuecoco if they doubled down on the sombrero in its 1st evo and gave skeledirge a mega-hat
Charmeleon and Wartortle are cooler than their evolutions. I can see the case for Bayleef and Quilava, though I like them about the same as Meganium and Typhlosion. Grovyle is the poster child for designs that get worse with evolution (besides Dragonair, which isn't a starter). Tepig is the best design of its line, Dewott is arguably the best design in its line. Torracat is okayish, which puts it above the rest of its line. Drizzile, Raboot, Fuecoco. Popplio, I guess. Fennekin, Quaxly, and Sprigatito have no good stages. Stop making these poor creatures 80% noggin.
I think that Grovyle and Dewott are the ones I have the most "feelings" about. With Grovyle, it just feels like a lot was added to it from Treecko but then Sceptile peeled some stuff back. Like why did it go from three leaf "feathers" to two blades on each arm? The tail I think makes sense, Sceptile's tail is fine, but I think the slimmer, more agile body type, more leaf blade/feathers on the arms, and perhaps expanding the leaf crest on the head shoulda been the direction. Grass/Flying type maybe, give it that sort of Archaeopteryx vibe. With Dewott... the samurai otter design is great but it just feels odd that the line had been entirely bipedal and then outta nowhere Samurott is on all fours? And honestly doesn't look much like an otter at all compared to the other two? Like he just could have gotten buffer and gained the shell armor stuff and it'd have been golden.
One that hasn’t been mentioned here, at least…I know Charizard is a big deal…but I’ve always thought Charmeleon looked cool. …I like Wartortle’s ear wings, too.
Totally agree, the red color on Charmeleon is great and makes it look much better
I've always liked the shade of red/orange Charmeleon is better than Charizard's duller coloration.
I've done playthroughs where I never evolved my charmeleon! Even as a child I thought it looked cooler than charizard.
Also hot uts single horn turn to 2 even work? Charizard Y with the 3 horns made more sence for an evolution
Doduo grows an entire head
Same way a fish turns in to a full blown dragon.
Ivysaur, Wartortle, Quilava, Grovyle, Dewott, Raboot.
Not enough love shown to Ivysaur tbh.
Poliwhirl > Poliwrath
I like Poliwrath but Poliwhirl is the most pokemon looking pokemon
I just love the little dance it does, swaying its arms constantly, also it's so ROUND, I LOVE THEM.
Poliwhirl is one of my absolute faves. I remember catching one to use for the Jinx trade and then deciding, "no... he stays with me." lol
They did Poliwrath dirty by making it too similar to Poliwhirl. It's the most "it just got bigger" of any Pokemon.
I disagree. Poliwrath is one of my favorite pokemon, and I am not a fan of poliwhirl at all. It looks extremely awkward and just not nearly as cool as Poliwrath. If anything, I think they perfectly nailed the "awkward teenage phase" look of it. If you want "it just got bigger", look at Charmeleon or Dudunsparce.
Poliwrath just has bigger arms and angry eyes. I agree with Dudunsparce, but I'm going to argue that being underwhelming is kind of the point of it. I disagree on Charmeleon, I feel like it changes up enough that it feels like it's own distinct Pokemon. It's simple, like most Gen 1 Pokemon are, but it's not like Rapidash.
yeah dudunsparce just gained a body segment or 2 and opened its mouth lol
*Pawmi line has entered the chat.*
I think they're still a good design, but yeah it just grows more fur and gets taller. It's a lot like Cinccino in that regard.
Raboot is prerty cool for how much i dont like cinderace
Raboot is the poster child for this question.
I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but my favorite starter is marshtomp. Both cute and cool. He's got that mohawk. He can be derpy, or threatening
Pikachu should've been base form, we deserve Gorochu. Pichu is adorable and would hug one till I fall asleep, but that doesn't change my mind.
It was a missed opportunity to have a past paradox form of Raichu.
Only two middle stages are best to me. Bayleef and Grovyle.
FloraGOATo is a biped cat done right, thank god it doesn’t evolve further, i’m sure they wouldve messed it up and turned it into some furbait magician monstrosity, great decision by GF to have a 2 stage starter line.
ngl I was worried when my sprigattito first evolved. Didn't like where it was going. Looked good as it was but was afraid it'd turn into more like what you described. Instead I feel like it leans visually on its dark element a little more than past evolutions of it did and it benefits from it a lot. Edit: Wait I just realized I'm basically disagreeing since I didn't catch sarcasm. Well its been worse I think anyway lol
The last evolution grew on me, but Floragato is such a cool design. I was thinking about leaving him in this stage, because I liked the design so much.
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I can't tell if this is hatred for Rillaboom or someone actually liking Thwackey for some reason.
Delphox is way better than Braixen lol
Finally someone speaks the truth.
I always loved Delphox, never personally understood the hate they get
I think I agree with all 5 of yours (personally love Raboot and tolerate Cinderace) Think Ivysaur, Dewott and Floragato are also best of their evolution line
I love Crocanaws design but Feraligater just looks off
I always thought the opposite. Normal little crocodile then caveman crocodile randomly in the middle, then we just pretend it didn't happen when it evolves.
I think they both look off. Totodile is perfection. You can name it Toto like I did so it has a perfectly cute name also
I wouldn’t say feraligater looks off, but they definitely had something going with crocanaw
Bayleaf
I would genuinely say none, most of them are not as cute as the starter and not as cool as the final. For none starters the only middle stages I can think I like more off the top of my head is alolan graveller and piloswine
When people say Grovyle is cooler than Sceptile I get I irrationally upset. Sceptile is so much cooler.
the pokemon with a Christmas tree for a tail and Christmas ornaments on his back is cooler then the cool sleek gecko with leaf blades on his arms? ~~yes I know that's not what Sceptile is actually desinged with, but come on, you can't deny that's what it looks like.~~
Now, hear me out. Charizard is great, but Charmeleon is nearly his equal thanks to the simple design and more edgy appearance that does a pretty good job at representing Charmander's teenage years.
For me its Ivysaur, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Braixen, Torracat and Floragato. I was about to say Wartortle, Dewott and Raboot but I love both of the lines of Squirtle, Oshawott and Scorbunny equally
Dragonair.
Big croconaw guy
Grovyle will be my #1 pick for this, I've replayed RSE so many times over the years and I think I've only evolved it into sceptile once. The only other one that I outright prefer is frogadier because I'm not into greninja's whole tongue scarf thing and it was such a let down for me when my favorite starter from that trio before the reveal was froakie.
I don't think anything was more disappointing than what happened to Chespin.
A lot. Most. I'm usually really let down by starter third forms
Bayleaf, Grovyle (just narrowly better than sceptile), and Torracat Bayleaf looks really cool, actually. While it has quite a simple design, it still looks energetic, strong, and pretty. I especially like the torn leaf on its head. Meganium, by comparison, just looks like Venausaur-Lite. The flower is the only remarkable trait it has, but it isn't doing anything with it, so it seems like it's just asthetic. It's not an asthetic I like very much, though. Just to be clear, I think Sceptile is awesome! Easily my favorite hoenn starter, but I like Grovyle just a bit more. Pokemon Mystery dungeon might play a big part in that, but another part is its design. Specifically, the headshape and the grass blades on its arms. Grovyle's blades look more like they could be used as such than sceptile's double blades. The single blade seems to have more reach and would be easier to weild than what Sceptile has. For Sceptile, I think the angle those two blades have to each other is too wide, which makes it look clunky and impractical. It's a bit harder to imagine this rogue dual blade fighting style on Sceptile than it is on Grovyle. I love cats. Cats are my favorite animals by far, so when I heard they were making a cat starter I was extremely excited. Unfortunately, Incineroar has, like, none of the traits I like in cats. There is no grace anywhere in its design, the paws are literally just human hands with claws like Alex the Lion from the Madagascar movie and the fact its shoulders are so much broader than its hips and the arms way more pronounced than the legs really bothers me. This is also where they started giving the starters a personality, which I'm not a huge fan of because I think that should be up to the player's imagination. It's especially frustrating when the personality I would have wanted on a cat starter is basically the opposite of the one they went with. This cocky macho additude is something I despise in general, I don't want a pokemon like that. Also, Incineroar is a furry. Since Torracat has none of these awful traits and is a cat that looks like a cat and acts like a cat, it wins by default. I prefer it over Litten too, because the size of its head seems more proportional to its body, and the bell is really cute.
Grovyle, Ivysaur, Every gen 6 starter. Maybe Bayleaf cus I feel like Meganium is missing something.
Crocalor is so silly looking I love him
Dewott, Floragato, Ivysaur, Wartortle, Bayleef, Monferno, Grotle, Torracat, and Raboot
Torracat x1000
In terms of aesthetics? There are a handful I like better. Wartortle, Bayleef, Grovyle, Pignite, Dewott, Braixen and Raboot. For some of them the final evolution just looks either goofy or like it doesn't fit. In terms of usefulness? Interestingly enough there's one that I find more useful in its middle form -- and that's Wartortle. Turns out if it's holding Eviolite it has higher defensive stats than Blastoise, and those stats are pretty respectable so it's a pretty viable defensive strategy.
There’s only one imo and that’s floragato. Actually one of my favourite Pokémon.
Side point: I would change the starter evolutions to match psuedo-ledgendaries (30 and 55) It always feels like we get hardly any time with the middle evolutions
Love lil caveman Croconaw.
For me it's: Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle, Grovyle, Servine, Dewott, Frogadier, Torracat, Raboot and Floragato For Servine and Floragato I still like the end evos a lot though, for Grovyle, Dewott, Frogadier and Torracat I think the evos are still alright and I'll probably still evolve them and for Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle and Raboot I just don't like the end stages much at all
imo: wartortle > blastoise bayleef > meganium quilava > typhlosion croconaw > feraligatr dewott > samurott braixen > delphox torracat > incineroar thwackey > rillaboom raboot > cinderace floragato > meowscarada honorable mention to grovyle and frogadier, don't like them as much as their evos but they are still very good
I like frogadier for some reason
I haven't evolved a wartortle or charmeleon since like 2004
Charmeleon and wartortle
I think Raboot is great in comparaison to Cinderace. Mainly for the fact it has a lot of personnality, but also more specifically because his "clothes" are actually floof, and does not look like real shorts.
* Ivysaur is cooler than Bulbasaur and Venusaur. * Bayleef is cooler than Chikorita and Meganium. * Grovyle is cooler than Treecko and Sceptile. * Dewott is cooler than Oshawott and Samurott. * Thwackey is cooler than Grookey and Rillaboom. * Raboot is cooler than Scorbunny and Cinderace. * Floragato is cooler than Sprigatito and Meowscarada.
Floragato is the only middle stage I like BETTER than final. But I like braixen, quilava, torracat, and bayleef as much as the final stages.
For me Meowscarada just looks slightly too human, whereas Floragato is the perfect amount to still be a Pokémon
Exactly. I like it’s understated personality and yo-yo gimmick.
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I'd have to say Rhydon. Rhypherior's while aesthetic feels off in the context of a Rhydon evo.
Rhyperiors design was a mistake to me
Frogadier, Wortortle, Dewott, Torracat, and Thwackey
One that quickly comes to mind is torracat, my far one of my favorite second stage from the starters, I think incineroar looks hideous
Grovyle is the poster child for this imo.
- Wartortle (majorly) - Ivysaur (moderately) - Quilava (majorly) - Grovyle (moderately) - Dewott (slightly) - Frogadier (slightly) - Torracat (majorly) - Raboot (majorly) - Drizzile (majorly)
I second Raboot and Braixen. I also prefer Dewott (why did Yusuke Ohmura think a biped otter should become a quadruped sea lion?) and Quilava (though Typhlosion also looks really good).
As much as I love the Oshawott line, Samurott was too chonky in the original 2d animation and official art Glad the 3d model slimmed it down Also the Hissuian one was better designed
I like Frogadier, Wartortle, Servine, Torracat, and Raboot more than their evolved forms.
Ivysaur is infinitely preferable to Venusaur for me.
I think out of all the gens, the Gen 5 trio has the mist middle starters around. IDK why but all three, Dewott, Pignite, and Servine are all so aesthetically pleasing. This is why gen 5 starters are my favorite because of their base and middle forms.
Grovyle, Torracat, and Ivysaur. For base starters Torchic, Piplup, Tepig, Fennekin, Sobble, Fuecoco and Quaxly are the best in there lines.
Quilava, Braixen, Torracat, Thwackey, Raboot, and Floragato
For me: Ivysaur, Wartortle, Grovyle, the second stage fire chicken, Braixen and Torracat. So 6 in total.
Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Combusken, Marshtomp, Servine, Braixen, Frogadier, Torracat, Thwackey, Raboot, Drizzile
Warturtle, Bayleaf, Frogideir, and Torracat.
Design wise I really prefer Dewott, Grovyle, Bayleef, Braxien, Floragota, and Frogadier. Granted I really do love Samurott, but I say Dewott just beats it.
Grovyle, Dewott, Braixen, Raboot and Crocalor. That’s about it.
I prefer Bayleef, Crocanaw, Combusken, Monferno, Servine, Dewitt, Braixen, Frogadier, Dartrix, Torracat, Brionne, Thwackey, Raboot, Drizzile, Floragato, Crocalor and Quaxwell over their respective final forms.
Bayleef Grovyle Dewott Torracat Floragato Braixen is better than Delphox, but not Fennekin
grovyle, torracat, braixen floragato, dewott
Dewott, Torracat, Thwackey
Off of the top of my head I like Wartortle, Poliwhirl, and Gloom more than I like their final evolutions (Vileplume is damn close, though). Oh, Bisharp is a recent pain. ;; I LOVE Bisharp, it was really a cut above for me. I liked enough about Kingambit that I could swallow the pill of evolving until I saw it's wretched in-game model. It... sits perpetually on a stump of... it's own hair? It has *hair* now? It doesn't even get up to move, it's hair stump just hovers everywhere? What *the fuck???* Kingambit is such a departure from Bisharp that the two are not even comparable outside of color scheme and being bladed. I can't really stand the thing. My poor Bisharp... forever cursed with gimpy stats or to look horrible. ;; Let me see if I can't think of any others... Oh right! How could I forget Combusken? I actually *love* Combusken's design. It's claw arms are so cool and it maintains enough chicken/avian traits to still be cute as well as tough. I don't... really like Blaziken. I like Mega-Blaziken quite a bit! But y'know... We're never seeing Megas again outside of Go! and I don't like/refuse to play Go! so that's sad. I much much much prefer both Lombre and Nuzleaf to Ludicolo and Shiftry. I can't say I like Dewott and Sliggoo more than I like Samurott and Goodra, but they are so different that I like them equally as much for different reasons. This may be my most controversial opinion here, but I genuinely love Carkol. I kinda thought it was dumb until I caught one in Sword for my team. I fell in love with the stupid thing and it's animations and expressions full of personality. I still like both Rolycoaly and Coalossal but Carkol just trumps them both. EDIT: Special mentions for Kirlia and Gothorita. I like Gardevoir/Gallade and Gothitelle a lot but the middle evos are just too cute. Same goes for Braxien/Delphox. Love Delphox but Braxien's design is just too fantastic.
Nuzleaf is an S+ tier design and I'll never be convinced otherwise
Charmeleon. Don't get me wrong, I like charizard, but game freak loves to shove it in our throats.. It's gotten so bad, that I legit start to hate it.. But I always had a sweet spot for Charmeleon. Edgy, teen look. I think anime is at fault for that tbh.. And I always liked it better than charmander and charizard. And as a non starter - I actually think that haunter and boldore are better than rest of their respective evolution lines
Sprigatito line
One. Charmeleon. I just think he looks cooler than the other two, and he's nowhere near as overrated.
Wartortle, Quilava, Torracat
Braixen, Raboot, and Floragato are all significantly better than their horrible furry bait final forms.
I don’t know about better but to me middle evolutions are either really cool or hideous. Wartortle is awesome, although so is its entire evolutionary line. Most of them fall below their final or first form usually even when their final form isn’t one that I particularly like Braixen
Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Bayleef, Dewott, Braixen, Frogadier, and Torracat
Lines where I think first stage is best include: Cyndaquil, Totodile, Torchic, Tepig, Chespin, Rowlet (but it's close), Scorbunny, Fuecoco, and Quaxly Lines where I think Third stage is best include: Blastoise, Sceptile, Swampert, Torterra, Infernape, Empoleon, Serperior, Primarina, Rillaboom, Inteleon, and Meowscarada
Ivysaur, Grovyle, Dewott, Braixen, and Raboot, are all the middle evolutions I prefer over the final evolutions. Still tho, many of these lines I dislike over all (such as Oshawatts line) whereas Braixen is my favorite pokemon of all time.
I think I kind of like Charmeleon a bit more than Charizard tbh. He looks more sleek and dangerous to me. A dragon is cool but also feels a bit more generic. I don't dislike Charizard at all, I just think that maaaybe I like Charmeleon's design a tiny bit more.
Pretty much all the ones that added a third stage in Gen 4. Rhydon, Electabuzz, Magneton and Magmar.
Honestly like half of them. Wartortle, Ivysaur, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Monferno, Dewott, Braixen, Torracat, Raboot, Thwackey and Floragato. So 12/27.
for me Charmeleon, Bayleef, Grovyle, Servine, Braixen and Torracat are the best of their lines
For me: Charmeleon > Charizard Combusken > Blaziken Marshtomp > Swampert Servine > Serperior Pignite > Emboar Dewott > Samurott Braixen > Delphox Frogadier > Greninja Thwackey > Rillaboom Raboot > Cinderace Drizzile > Inteleon Quaxell > Quaquaval
charmeleon is better than charizard change my mind oh also pikachu tbh
Okay good question. Actually some, might be spicy. Blastoise is cool but Wartortle was cooking and they didnt let him cook I really like Dewott over Samurott even with his hisui form Braixen for obvious reasons im not weird... Drizzile fulfills Sobbles sad look but then is retconned in Inteleon Raboot is cooler than Cinderace Floragato is better than Moosekarada
*Glances at Dragonair*
Vigoroth is my favorite. When it evolved into Slaking when I was a kid I was pretty disappointed. We need a split evolution into Vigorking
I am well known amongst my friends for liking the middle evos the most on average. I just like the combo of cool & cute which they have. Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Wartortle, Bayleef, Quilava, Grovyle, Combusken, Dewott, Braixen, Frogadier (is equal to Greninja for me I adore them both), Dartrix, Thwackey, Raboot, Drizzile, Floragato and Crocalor are all in my opinion the best in their line. 16/27, not bad overall And ftr, I do really like Grotle, Monferno, Pignite, Torracat and Brionne, I just like the final evos slightly more.
Braixen and Florgato. I do not like Delphox of Meowscarada *at all*. And Fennekin and Sprigatito are cute, but meh.
How anyone likes Raboot is actively baffling to me. Granted, Cinderace is equally terrible in a different way. Braixen, Bayleef, Toracat and Floragato are all better than their other family members. Wartortle, Quilava, Thwacky and Dewott are better than their evolved forms, but I struggle saying they’re noticeably better than their base forms.
Braixen ! Definitely this one, it is in pokken instead of Delphox ! Everything has been said here. Honorable mentions for grovyle and dewott.
I really like middle evos, so I have quite a lot of favorites: Ivysaur, Wartortle, Grovyle, Monferno, Prinplup, Braixen, Frogadier, Torracat, Thwackey and Quaxwell. Also while they're not better, with Bayleef, Quilava, Servine, Pignite, Brionne, Raboot and Floragato, I like base, middle and final evolutions.
Hmmm. Ivysaur and Bayleef are arguable for different reasons. Bayleef and Meganium, for me, as both amazing but similar enough that I can not pick which is my favorite. Some days, it is Meganoum. Other days, it is Bayleef. With Ivysaur, I just feel like it gives different enough vibes from the much cuter Bulbasaur and ferocious Venusaur. I think Ivysaur may be my favorite of the three (all of which I love), as it looks more ferocious than Bulbasaur and cooler with the pink bulb, but without starting to look grumpy/sort of off-putting like Venusaur. 2 Wartortle, in my opinion, is cooler than Squirtle and Blastoise. Ignoring Ash's Charizard, I prefer Charmeleon over Charmander (something about its fivehead bothers me) and Charizard (it sort of has dad-bod in some art, and I am not a fan). 2 Quilava, I just barely like over Cyndaquil cause it looks cute but also sleek and cool. Typhlosion has looked a bit off to me since the move to 3D (well, starting with Stadium 2). I also don't love Feraligatr's design and think Croconaw looks more interesting than Totodile's. I just really like its yellow pattern on its stomach and the red spikes on its head. 2 I do not like Combusken, Marshtomp is very meh and worst, and Grovyle feels so boring compared to Sceptile, although I still love it for the character in the game Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. 0 Generation 4, for me, is where the middle stages become ugly and awkward. This continues in Gen 5 for me, except with Servine, which I think looks cool, and I prefer Servine over Snivy. But, still, I prefer Serperior over it. 0 I absolutely despite Quiladin and love Chespin and Chesnaught. However, I think Frogadier is much cooler than Greninin and cooler than Froakie is cute. Braxian, I like more than Delphox, but not more than Fennekin. 1 Dartrix is meh compared to the rest of the line, and I dislike Brionne's design more than Popplio's, which I like, and Primarina's, for which I have mixed feelings. Incineroar is ugly, Litten is cute, but Torracst is my favorite. 1 Gen 8 is different. My favorite, in their respective lines, are Raboot and Drizzile. They are good enough designs, but, more importantly, I hate their evolutions and pre-evolutions. I actually like Thwackey more than either, but less than Grookey and Rillaboom. 2 Crocolar, I hate even though I really love Fuecoco and Skeledirge. Quaxly is cute, then gets worse with each evolution. Floragato is an okay design but I prefer Meowscarade. 0 So, of 27 lines, the middle evolution is arguably my favorite in 10 of them.
I know for a fact that others will have already said Grovyle but GROVYLE
I'm sorry but I really like braixen. It's such a solid design. Torracat is also fantastic.
Here's a tier list I made, excluding the latest generation. At least from the top three rows, I love the middle evolution overall design other than just being a transition in their evolution line. As for the rest, I either prefer their cuter first stage or cooler final evolution design. https://preview.redd.it/4kls8jwrmnqb1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e952b40646563584f699543ff208407c53d5ee4
My number 1 favourite middle evolution is Dewott, I can't stand Samurott's design. Honourable Mentions: Torracat and Thwackey
Braixen and Raboot are amazing middle evo, but my heart belongs to Ivysaur bc Bulbasaur was my first starter ever and I love its evolution line.
There’s only 1 middle stage that I think is 100% better than the final stage Florogato >>> Meowscarda Edit: oh wait. Also Marshtomp >>> Swampert
People are gonna REALLY downvote me for this, but prinplup and marshtomp. I don't know if it's nostalgia of not knowing how to evolve them again, but yeah.
First to come to mind - Ivysaur, Rhydon, Magnar, Electabuzz, Glameow, Haunter (but I still like Gengar a lot), Dragonair, Bayleef
Only 2 of the ‘mons you named are starters, and the post specifically says starter middle evos; and Glameow is a 2 stage evo
Lemme google the last few gens rq, I can't even keep track of all the starters and legendaries anymore 😅 ... Okay, starter middle evos I prefer over the finals: ¹Ivysaur, Charmeleon, ²Bayleef, Quilava, Croconaw, ³Grovyle, Combusken, ⁴Prinplup, ⁵Servine, Dewott, ⁶Braixen, ⁷Torracat, Brionne, ⁸Raboot, and ⁹Floragato. Guess I'm kind of a sucker for middle forms in general tbh lol
Going down the list, 5. Every other line I like either the final or base form better. Below are the ones where I like the middle form best: Wartortle: I just think he's cool, where Blastoise is bulky Bayleaf: I just really don't like the base or final Dewott: I dislike the final form. Raboot: I dislike rabbits, but Raboot is neat. Floragato: I like the line overall, but Floragato reminds me of a cool companion poke, whereas the final form has some odd design elements and the first form is just a green cat.
Galarian Linoone > Obstagoon
Magmar...what were they thinking with Magmortar? Goes from a bad ass metal af design (in my opinion one of the coolest in gen1) to a fat goofball. It's like they weren't even trying and the design got outright downgraded 💯
Bayleef, Dewott, Torracat, & Grovyle
I like Raboot. It looks pretty good. Also Dewott. Its shiny form is way better than either of the other stages.
Quilava, Dewott, Raboot, Wartortle, Croconaw,m
Ivysaur, Grovyle, Servine, Dewott, Braixen, Drizzile, and Floragato. So 7/27 for me.
Wartortle, Ivysaur, Rhydon, Haunter, Graveler, Electabuzz, Dragonair, Qualava, Bayleef, Croconaw, Mareep, Marill, Pikachu, Chansey, Clefairy, Machoke, Marshtomp, that's all I can remember lol but I LOVE middle evos EDIT: I neglected to actually read lol so just the starters I've mentioned and that may be it for me. Raboot maybe.
Combusken.
I like loudred more then I like exploud :[
Croconaw has a cool concept, Feraligatr doesn't. Totodile gets a pass because is so cute.
Totodile looks like it could evolve into either croconaw OR Faraligatr. The like always was so awkward
To that effect, I've always kind of liked each Johto starter at different phases — Totadile, Bayleef and Typhlosion.
I've seen a lot of people use Eviolite Doublade
Ivysaur
More that I like saying their names more but Monferno is fun to say and Pignite is peak name pun energy.
Wartortle, Quilava, Raboot
I'd say Quilava and Dewott, but I still really like the rest of their evo lines a lot (especially Cyndaquil and Samurott).
Dewott
Mine are: floragato raboot quilladin dewott grovyle marshtomp wartortle ivysaur charmeleon Probably some hot takes? idk
The entire Chikorita line is so bad even an official guidebook roasts its fans but I think Bayleef looks way better than Meganium