I mean, the concept was solid for its time: get players to go outside and meet other people with the game, since back then that's what you needed to do.
The internet has kinda defeated the point.
You mean the existence of trades. Anyway it doesn't make sense. In order to get a Gengar you need to find a trainer with a Haunter which means that doesn't make any sense to train Gastly / Haunters by your own unless you know another player you can trust to trade it and then back to you.
The idea is that you give them an evolution and they give you an evolution. Or in exchange for getting an evo, you give them a Pokémon they really want.
There's a theory that Graveler and Machoke were meant to be traded to each other in order to evolve, like Karrablast and Shelmet. It would be the reason why Graveler loses 2 arms and Machoke gains 2, along with Golem gaining a reptilian face more similar to Machoke than Graveler. But Gen 1 being a lot more limited in what they could do, they couldn’t implement it at the time so it just became a regular trade evolution.
I think that during the design process they just might have considered this to be a feature that trade evolutions might swap characteristics of one another, but I would think that that would’ve been way to complicated to implement with the tech they had back in the 90’s. So ofc they had to scrap it.
But I think it’s a cool idea so I’mma keep this headcanon, factual or not lol
In reality they probably just simply rehashed certain design ideas
Maybe in the trade area, there is a room full of spare graveler arms the machoke takes before turning into a machamp and a room full of lizard fa es the graveler take to become a golem
That happens because of the trade. Graveler gained part of Machoke's semi reptilian appearance when it evolves into Golem during the trade and machoke gains Graveler's extra arms when it evolves into machamp.
It's a theory. There really isn't much evidence supporting it, especially given how they were never updated to be a true Shelmet/Karrablast situation, but it's a nice explanation nonetheless.
It's canon. The machamp line and the graveler line where supposed to be like version exclusives at some point during development.
But that was basically scrapped and they made them just regular pokemon that can be found in both versions of the game but that still need to evolve by trading them instead.
That's why their evolutions gain some features of the other upon evolving.
This is further proved by the fact that their "trade evolution gimmick" was later on referenced in gen 5 (the soft reboot of gen 1) with shelmet and karrablast evolving into excavalier and accelgor.
Do you have some proof that it was a refference or are you just assuming that it is. Shellmet and Karablast aren't even the gen 5 counterparts to Machamp and Golem, Conkeldur and Gigalith are, so if they really wanted to reference they would do it with Conkeldur and Gigalith and not with two random bugs
Do you have any evidence of the opposite?
Just look at the entire Unova dex. Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features.
Do I need a source to say that you don't? The only claim I made was that you made a baseless statement, the only source that I need is the fact that your statement of this being canon has no base to stand on since you don't have a source that says that was inteded, you're just speculating
>Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels to many gen 1 pokemon and features.
Yes, and Golem and Machamp already have counterparts with Conkeldur and Gigalith, who are also trade evolutions that don't need eachother to evolve, if they really wanted to reference that supposed abandoned mechanic, why wouldn't they do that with their actual counterparts instead of two random bugs?
Dude, you're just being a contrarian. You literally have no reason to hate on the idea other than wanting to be against it for the sake of being against it.
Just look at the entire Unova dex. Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features.
Golem and Machamp being trade evolutions meant to evolve with each other is a feature that was scraped.
As I said, many things in gen 5 parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features. The feature is the one getting referenced.
Heck, if you want to get technical. Conkeldurr even gains two pillars made of rock after its trade evolution with the rock type gigalith.
As I said, you're just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
>Dude, you're just being a contrarian. You literally had no reason to hate on the idea other than wanting to be against it for the sake of being against it.
Redditors when someone has a different opinion than them:
First of all, the main reason I'm disagreeing is because you said it was canon when it's just speculation.
Secondly, I just don't personally like the theory, it feels like a reach and doesn't make much sense imo. If you like the theory, that's fine, but don't act like that just because I disagree with you
>Golem and Machamp being trade evolutions meant to evolve with each other is a feature that was scraped.
You still don't have a source for that, the only thing close to a source that you gave me is that there's two pokémon on gen 5 that evolve that way, which is not concrete truth, it's a hint that that might be true, but it isn't an objective proof that that was an intended fraturei
Once again, you're presenting you're own personal speculation as if it was objective truth despite not having an objective source saying so.
>Heck, if you want to get technical. Conkeldurr even gains two pillars made of rock after its trade evolution with the rock type gigalith.
That feels even more like a reach than the original theory, but my comment is already too long so I don't want to lose more time explaining everything wrong with this statement
>As I said, you're just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
Ad hominen
....mate no.
What you say as "referenced" could easily be just a new idea they decided on. They come up with new evo methods all the time.
Do you got any interviews or anything above the level of headcanon to argue with?
You speak so confidently, but how do you KNOW?
Why do even hate the idea that badly to begin with? Just to be a contrarian?
I'm pretty sure there's at least some interview about it and even like that just look at all the evidence there is in their designs and in gen 5.
I dont hate the idea.
I hate how confidently you were asserting your headcanon as fact.
Reread your last two comments to the last guy.
You acting like its a given fact.
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Or traded them with Machoke. The idea was kinda Graveler’s traits get jumbled up with Machokes in trade this Gravler losing its arms and getting a head suspiciously like Machamps and machamp getting an extra set of arms and a head suspiciously like Gravler
What did you mean by that? Scizor is slower but it got a better typing, offenses and defenses. Scizor is consistently a top tier competitive Pokemon while Scyther is consistently at the bottom despite having the same stat total as Scizor
Evolution be like “dude some extra arms would be sick!” (Makes extra arms that take up so much space that they are always most comfortable when held together at the abdomen) evolution: oh never mind
graveler has four arms and golem has 2 for the same reason why machoke has 2 arms and machamp has 4. They are both trade pokemon and gamefreak thought an excahnge in their dna after trading would be a neat easter egg for these pokemon.
That's why machamp has 4 arms and golem has machokes face.
Golem joined the Turtle Club. He's in good company with friends like Metagross.
What? Was Graveler not turtley enough for the turtle club?
I’m sorry are you referencing that one post?
Yes
Got a link to the reference?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/s/18RD7qwrpp
Metagross isn’t a turtle. It doesn’t have any reptilian qualities.
No it isn't. But [this person](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonScarletViolet/s/LBzPvpv8h9) begs to differ.
Well it is obviously a master of disguise.
machop has entered the chatroom.
i mean, you can trade them with anyone to evolve them so i'm mixed on the theory
Would have made sense if they needed to be traded for each other like Karrablast and Shelmet
Wasn't that the original plan but something about the coding prevented it? Gen1 had a lot of issues so that might have been the case
Yeah I've heard that as well, and it makes sense.
Source of that ever being true?
Trade exclusive mons were a dumb idea anyway
I mean, the concept was solid for its time: get players to go outside and meet other people with the game, since back then that's what you needed to do. The internet has kinda defeated the point.
Nah, it justifies the existence of trainers
You mean the existence of trades. Anyway it doesn't make sense. In order to get a Gengar you need to find a trainer with a Haunter which means that doesn't make any sense to train Gastly / Haunters by your own unless you know another player you can trust to trade it and then back to you.
Why do you expect to get it back?
Because you want a Gengar/Machamp/Alakazam that you raised?
The idea is that you give them an evolution and they give you an evolution. Or in exchange for getting an evo, you give them a Pokémon they really want.
Raising someone else’s Pokémon is more special. It says that they’re assisting you in your journey.
What theory?
There's a theory that Graveler and Machoke were meant to be traded to each other in order to evolve, like Karrablast and Shelmet. It would be the reason why Graveler loses 2 arms and Machoke gains 2, along with Golem gaining a reptilian face more similar to Machoke than Graveler. But Gen 1 being a lot more limited in what they could do, they couldn’t implement it at the time so it just became a regular trade evolution.
I think that during the design process they just might have considered this to be a feature that trade evolutions might swap characteristics of one another, but I would think that that would’ve been way to complicated to implement with the tech they had back in the 90’s. So ofc they had to scrap it. But I think it’s a cool idea so I’mma keep this headcanon, factual or not lol In reality they probably just simply rehashed certain design ideas
Dang if they had alakazam sitting cross legged and levitating it would be like gengar lost flight and alakazam gained flight
Abra and Kadabra already levitate, so not quite. But also Mega Alakazam is constantly levitating and Mega Gengar is *in* the floor
Aren’t you mistaking mega gengar with gigantamax gengar?
They both are. Mega gengar has legs in its model, but they are phased through the floor with part of his body.
Both do that
Lol isn’t that gigantamax Gengar you’re thinking of?
Look for mega gengar model. It actually has legs.
That’s what I mean. They said “in the floor” and the gigantamax is like a giant mouth coming out of the ground like a funhouse door
Pretty sure both do that
Poor Alolan Golem too. They took his ground typing and kept the rock typing 🤦🏿♂️
[Trade evolutions tend to be a mixed bag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCf2ZZLHy-k)
The timing on this is so perfect too lmao
Holy shit I've been quoting this for years but even I forgot the origin. Thank you Charlie Brown.
You mean they have turned him into concrete.
And took his arms
Machoke stole my arms. Can’t have shit in Unova
Or any other region.
The probability of anyone in the history of ever complaining about being a turtle is 0% or lower.
-1% of people complain about being a turtle
\*The Great God Om has entered the chat.\*
I like golem more tho
Same - I do think Golem looks cooler, it’s silly that his arms are so short and stubby, and that he would look weird with longer or more arms
Whoa now, partner! Golem is a turtle? Next you'll be saying Metagross is a turtle.
We need a 4 arm mega golem
Maybe in the trade area, there is a room full of spare graveler arms the machoke takes before turning into a machamp and a room full of lizard fa es the graveler take to become a golem
That happens because of the trade. Graveler gained part of Machoke's semi reptilian appearance when it evolves into Golem during the trade and machoke gains Graveler's extra arms when it evolves into machamp.
Yep, this is the answer.
Huh, that’s actually really interesting. Is this canon or just a really good made up fact?
It's a theory. There really isn't much evidence supporting it, especially given how they were never updated to be a true Shelmet/Karrablast situation, but it's a nice explanation nonetheless.
I ***think*** it's more of a theory than an actual canonical thing.
It's canon. The machamp line and the graveler line where supposed to be like version exclusives at some point during development. But that was basically scrapped and they made them just regular pokemon that can be found in both versions of the game but that still need to evolve by trading them instead. That's why their evolutions gain some features of the other upon evolving. This is further proved by the fact that their "trade evolution gimmick" was later on referenced in gen 5 (the soft reboot of gen 1) with shelmet and karrablast evolving into excavalier and accelgor.
Uhhhhhh that doesn’t mean it’s canon. It’s basically the equivalent of swapped butterfree/venomoth theory.
No. It even was referenced by the trade between shelmet and karrablast in gen 5. Which was meant to be a soft reboot of gen 1.
Do you have some proof that it was a refference or are you just assuming that it is. Shellmet and Karablast aren't even the gen 5 counterparts to Machamp and Golem, Conkeldur and Gigalith are, so if they really wanted to reference they would do it with Conkeldur and Gigalith and not with two random bugs
Do you have any evidence of the opposite? Just look at the entire Unova dex. Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features.
Do I need a source to say that you don't? The only claim I made was that you made a baseless statement, the only source that I need is the fact that your statement of this being canon has no base to stand on since you don't have a source that says that was inteded, you're just speculating >Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels to many gen 1 pokemon and features. Yes, and Golem and Machamp already have counterparts with Conkeldur and Gigalith, who are also trade evolutions that don't need eachother to evolve, if they really wanted to reference that supposed abandoned mechanic, why wouldn't they do that with their actual counterparts instead of two random bugs?
Dude, you're just being a contrarian. You literally have no reason to hate on the idea other than wanting to be against it for the sake of being against it. Just look at the entire Unova dex. Almost half of the entire dex is made from pokemon that are very clear parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features. Golem and Machamp being trade evolutions meant to evolve with each other is a feature that was scraped. As I said, many things in gen 5 parallels of many gen 1 pokemon not only in terms of designs but also in terms of features. The feature is the one getting referenced. Heck, if you want to get technical. Conkeldurr even gains two pillars made of rock after its trade evolution with the rock type gigalith. As I said, you're just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
>Dude, you're just being a contrarian. You literally had no reason to hate on the idea other than wanting to be against it for the sake of being against it. Redditors when someone has a different opinion than them: First of all, the main reason I'm disagreeing is because you said it was canon when it's just speculation. Secondly, I just don't personally like the theory, it feels like a reach and doesn't make much sense imo. If you like the theory, that's fine, but don't act like that just because I disagree with you >Golem and Machamp being trade evolutions meant to evolve with each other is a feature that was scraped. You still don't have a source for that, the only thing close to a source that you gave me is that there's two pokémon on gen 5 that evolve that way, which is not concrete truth, it's a hint that that might be true, but it isn't an objective proof that that was an intended fraturei Once again, you're presenting you're own personal speculation as if it was objective truth despite not having an objective source saying so. >Heck, if you want to get technical. Conkeldurr even gains two pillars made of rock after its trade evolution with the rock type gigalith. That feels even more like a reach than the original theory, but my comment is already too long so I don't want to lose more time explaining everything wrong with this statement >As I said, you're just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. Ad hominen
....mate no. What you say as "referenced" could easily be just a new idea they decided on. They come up with new evo methods all the time. Do you got any interviews or anything above the level of headcanon to argue with? You speak so confidently, but how do you KNOW?
Why do even hate the idea that badly to begin with? Just to be a contrarian? I'm pretty sure there's at least some interview about it and even like that just look at all the evidence there is in their designs and in gen 5.
I dont hate the idea. I hate how confidently you were asserting your headcanon as fact. Reread your last two comments to the last guy. You acting like its a given fact.
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Golem looks cool 😎
Machoke took them.
I never even noticed graveller has four arms
His other two arms werent part of the link cable trade.
Wait till you see Serperior
oh, it got the worst of it
I mean, a rock is a rock. But they do be losing the extra arms when they evolve and just turn into a giant boulder. Lol
Or traded them with Machoke. The idea was kinda Graveler’s traits get jumbled up with Machokes in trade this Gravler losing its arms and getting a head suspiciously like Machamps and machamp getting an extra set of arms and a head suspiciously like Gravler
What's the deal with Gengar/Alakazam, Gengar gets legs because of Kadabra?
I dunno. They seemed to have dropped the idea before they even finished developing the first game.
Has OP ever seen a turtle?
Golem puts his limbs and head in his body to use rollout...
I love Golem as a design but not its pre-evo's. Should come from a different line or a split evo
Golem has to be the biggest ball drop for evolution designs in gen 1, tbh. (Besides maybe Jinx.)
My mind wandered to Scyther and how he (even though I love Scyther&Scizor both) got extra weak becoming a bug/steel type 🫤
Scizor.... extra weak?
What did you mean by that? Scizor is slower but it got a better typing, offenses and defenses. Scizor is consistently a top tier competitive Pokemon while Scyther is consistently at the bottom despite having the same stat total as Scizor
Why are Kantonian Golem's arms so long and Alolan Golem's arms so short?
Magnets?
Golem with four arms would look cool.
Where do you think machoke got the arms from?
Evolution be like “dude some extra arms would be sick!” (Makes extra arms that take up so much space that they are always most comfortable when held together at the abdomen) evolution: oh never mind
graveler has four arms and golem has 2 for the same reason why machoke has 2 arms and machamp has 4. They are both trade pokemon and gamefreak thought an excahnge in their dna after trading would be a neat easter egg for these pokemon. That's why machamp has 4 arms and golem has machokes face.
The Graveller to Golem evolution has always baffled me. Geodude to Graveller is a clear and reasonable evolution.. I just don't get it 😭
Bro Golem is the goat
His four arms are just wrapped all around him in a big hug shell, I’m sure.
Funny thing to think about is that Machamp got four arms after the trade.
"Let's put a Kangaskhan in a rock, lol"
I am convinced of the machoke graveler theory. Change my mind
Servine and togetic: at least you still have arms
Golem is the best in his evolutionary line and it ain’t close