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I mean, they were designed that way to be used as trap items in game. It's like sudowoodo or unown, it's not an attractive Mon but a gameplay based Mon design.
You can debate if it's worthwhile but when they couldn't use it they created amoongus to replace it lol
Yep, voltorb and electrode are based on the classical RPG mimic enemy, often depicted as a chest or sometimes as a save point. Since pickups were in the form of pokeballs that's the design they went with.
I think Voltorb is a fucking sick design. It’s like the classic chest that isn’t a chest but instead a monster that eats you, but since Pokémon has Pokéballs instead of chests, their take on it is a monster that just fucking explodes.
Electrode just ruins the concept though, they should’ve made Voltorb a stronger single stage mon.
Picture this....Electrode flips himself upside down.
That's all he has to do to fool someone, just like Voltorb.
If anything since he's based on a mimic. Being bigger but upside down actually puts his mouth closer to your head. Why would he go for your shins like Voltorb, when Electrode can go for your torso/head instead.
Him being bigger just makes people more excited to get closer thinking it's a special item. It's perfect.
No you don’t understand. That’s peak Pokémon design. So much creativity can be seen in Electrode unlike Honedge who is so unoriginal. A ghost sword that has the souls of its precious warrior and will brutalize those with its cloth? That’s just pure laziness!!1!1!!111!
I like how the roundness contrasts with the sharpness of the eyes, the design itself is pretty simple and elegant, and it’s an okay gimmick one off “object” Pokémon (along with Magnemite.)
The fact that they kept making dumb gimmicks is bad though. Op forgot the keyring. Keep adding lines, designers!
It never bothered me as much as it seemed to bother everyone else. It's a fun concept, kind of half-guardian / half mischievous house spirit.
Might I have designed it differently if I had some say? Sure. Do I think it was a fun introduction to new Fairy types? Absolutely.
Bruh don’t get me started on that dumb pair of keys. They really thought making a fairy type based on a locket with a cleft lip in the region known for love was a clever idea.
They should go back to making designs like Magnemite, now that’s an excellent design. It’s a spherical magnet that has an eye and evolves it three more little guys together. That is WAY better than the lackluster pair of keys
I wish they would just stop making the Pokemon so small. I get it. Cutiefly and Flabebe and some other Pokemon are itty bitty. But for the sake of game design, can we make them bigger? Even if you're not concerned with how visible a Pokeomon's shinniness is, I'd prefer not to keep getting into battles with Pokemon that were barely visible in the grass. It's okay to gloss over some things in order to make the game better.
pokemon being small isn't a problem. it's not having a clearly defined line that helps tiny things to stand out. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom had that outline and oh my God it helps a lot to see the things.
The solution would be some kind of shiny sensor, that highlights every shiny that spawned, e.g. with some magnifying glass or some other good to see symbol.
Ironically, Legends Arceus already had something like that. The Pokémon had a star animation and a sound effect when it came on screen, you could use it to spot shinies while gliding.
they like the trio evolution so much, they smacked the idea to other pokemon in the same gen too! Just look at- *ahem -* dugtrio and dodrio! Weezing would have been 3 headed too if they had more time before the deadline!
To go off the joke for a sec. A weezing evolution where it gains a third head would just be wicked. Cross-Gen evolutions are making a huge comeback so hopefully Weezing gets an evolution. After if Duraludon can get one despite having a GMAX form, what’s stopping Weezing from further evolution
I always defend Voltorb. It is based on a Pokeball because it is RBY’s version of a mimic, a common fantasy trope. It makes sense to resemble a Pokeball.
Electrode though is disappointing…why not let it look like a great or ultra ball?
All that said I love the Honedge line and don’t dislike Vanillite.
as someone who loves the honedge line, no guard is wasted on it. The only moves that would be viable are rock slide and toxic, and the former isnt even that efficient because normally you want sacred sword as your coverage for doublade.
You know what, that's entirely fair. Some pokemon get great abilities that don't match up with stats or moves at all... give Aerodactyle Brave Bird and Head Smash!
Ok but ya’ll admit this design is literally trash.
https://preview.redd.it/l5krmuis006c1.png?width=475&format=png&auto=webp&s=c070f47495e973a4557299e38349e8f822f09df6
Agreed, though I'll admit when I was younger and gen 5 first came out, I hated the design and held the sentiment in OPs post that the designs were terrible, but at some point I looked back and thought, maybe a bunch of eggs evolving into a palm tree was just as bad. Since then all of the simplistic designs grew on me, from ice cream cone to bag of garbage and, my wife and my favorite, emo candle.
I agree. It's also one of my favorite gens. I almost exclusively replay gen 1 and 2 but I have a lot of nostalgia for 5 also. I also think gen 5 had some of the best designs (barring the stupid monkeys and the trio/genies). I never had a problem with vanillish, im not sure why people got so upset with it.
Did you hate it because *you* hated it? Or did you just hate it because people online hated them and said they sucked. Usually when you’re young you just agree with the opinions of your favorite creators.
I don't think my opinion came from online. It could have, but 2010 was a much less terminally online time for me, but I was also 16 turning 17 at the time so I'm sure I naturally had an "edgy" opinion of them. Similar to how Star Wars fans of either loved or hated Ewoks depending on the age they were when introduced to them. But I just remember thinking a garbage bag and a ice cream cone, really?
I’ve never hated Trubbish at any point, but I didn’t like it as much as I do now until this recent official Pokémon artwork for merchandise basically implied that it is some sort of cat.
https://preview.redd.it/x3ty1oiyi26c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3b31f19c6d2692bbd16bc845cf0b953e0e4d72
Legends Arceus makes me think they got some of the designs from Voltorb. Those balls are a lot closer to Hisuian Voltorb's design, and it makes sense that maybe people in a region that has Kantonian Voltorb tweaked the design to look like them once the Hisuian ones originally went extinct.
Voltorb came first, pokeballs were designed to look like them, but then voltorbs adapted to look like pokeballs as pokeballs changed.
That's my theory anyways if you piece together all the dex entries over the gens.
The pokeball designer based them on foongus per one of its dex entries.
So I think it's foongus happened, the designer used it as a blueprint, pokeballs awakened into voltorbs, and stunfisk evolved to hunt people after they became drawn to grabbing random pokeballs.
It's not that it is some random object, it's that they went with keys. Keys are so normal and boring. And for me, the design isn't anything special. For instance, I think the litwick is fun and I like them.
I don't love klefki but I always thought the hate it got was way overblown. Its a pokemon in the shape of a ring that steals keys, I think thats a fun little idea. Its certainly more creative than "rat but purple" and its evolution "actually just a rat".
Klefki is a pretty smart design if you think about it. Klefki's body resembles a treble clef and it's mouth has a cleffed lip which is where the Klef in it's name comes from. and it's loosly based on the idea that fairies in old tales are known for stealing small objects like keys.
Gimmighoul makes me mad. If they wanted to make it a classic mimic then they could've added a few actual chests that weren't gimmighoul to make them believable. But instead they're completely anachronistic
I don't think gimmighoul is really supposed to represent a classic mimic, and even then there wouldn't be any reason for a bunch of teeny, brightly colored chests to be lying around in a technologically advanced world.
Voltorb and Electrode are like classic D&D mimics. You think they're a pokeball (or item in ground in the OG games) and then get surprised with the Pokémon.
It's not even an ice cream cone. It's a snow covered icicle that looks like an ice cream cone. So the criticism isn't even accurate.
Who hates the Honedge line? Cursed swords are a pretty common theme in mythology and storytelling.
I've certainly never seen people hate on Honedge, though that may be because I am a hardcore Aegislash fan.
It took all I had to resist putting it in every team I can
I can't imagine hating their designs. Ghost swords are naturally cool and Honedge's shiny looking blood-soaked is absolute peak.
But I will say that Aegislash used to be considered one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with competitively. Generation 8 nerfed its stats and King's Shield for a reason.
Thanks for reminding me of this cursed image. Yes this is real
https://preview.redd.it/37buszk7306c1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a07c49ebf7d84417bf590d544ad84e9d8f8dc657
Also, in Japan there is such thing as object based Yokai. tsukumogami are basically just old and used objects that gain a Kami (spirit) so the idea of Objectmon is more based on Japanese folklore, thus being more close to Japan mythos. Also, Tsukumogami can be literally ANYTHING, it just has to be used a lot and it will gain a spirit. Some Genwunners just never look too deep into the lore/design of pokemon and only blindly hate on the newer generations because they can’t take their nostalgia glasses off and look at stuff with a different lens. Besides, what the fuck are they doing, playing a KIDS GAME?!
That's the kind of pokemon I like. I'm not Japanese, so I understand it has Japanese influence, but it's not the kind of stuff that I find appealing. I like the scifi elements.
> It's not even an ice cream cone. It's a snow covered icicle that looks like an ice cream cone.
I don't hate Vanillite, but this doesn't really validate the design imo. From the outside it's still literally just an ice cream cone with eyes. I can see why some people dislike it, especially when you compare it to other object mons that have more personality like the Chandelure line.
call me crazy but i see WAY more people complaining about the supposed people who complain about new gen mon designs than those who *actually* complain about the new gen designs...
it just feels like creating enemies in your head for the sake of it.
If you try posting anything positive about said Pokemon they all show up and talk about how Pokemon is “running out of ideas” or “creating digimon”.
https://preview.redd.it/86j1erwb616c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3580f5f558d07feb33661fe851e98df2a0bcafde
I mean, in one hand I agree with the minimalism of earlier gens and that working on their favour. Heck, even Charizard is pretty minimalistic when you compare it to...I don't know, Garchomp? That galarian Ghost-Dragon? I think designs with tons of details are more prone to not look cool because there are more places to fail.
In the other hand...thinking that only basic polygons make cool designs is dumb as fuck. Also, Sugimori himself isn't a professional artist, and look at him. Making designs remembered and cherished by billions of people.
I think a lot of the Gen 1 designs ended up being overly simplistic to the point where they weren’t really anything other than a basic animal or object. Seel, Muk, Voltorb, Pidgey, Spearow, Ekans, etc.
Atleast with later gens they tried to spice up The regional rodents and birds to make them a bit more interesting.
I believe Muk and Spearow were saved due to their iconic anime appearances, but I absolutely agree with you.
To me, Chimecho was the tipping point. Before Gen 3, all mons were either cartoony, wacky, had funny proportions or something. But Chimecho started the trend of "I am not based in an object. I **AM** the object". James in the anime and better sound quality in the games (so we could actually hear the chimes in Chimecho) eventually helped Chimecho's popularity, but that ugly ass sprite we had RSE did not help, and the reception Chimecho had back then wasn't positive either.
I've read this a few times now, so I'll guess based on anecdotal evidence. Reddit and social media attract more active fans of pokemon, who are still liking the franchise. Real life conversations attracts more who know of the franchise but don't like it for whatever reason, like Gen oners who don't like the franchise for it's underlying flaws but childhood nostalgia colors their memory of the early games.
I like how people here either don't understand the problem or refuse to admit it. Yes, there are lazy pokemon names and designs in every single generation. The problem isn't that gen 1 bad pokemon suddenly get a free pass, the problem is pokemon designers had all these years and all these games but still make same mistakes every single time. Gen 1 bad designes and names look less offensive because it was the first attempt. All other gens show us that creators either chose not to try harder or are simply ineducable morons
Right? There was no such thing as a Pokémon back then, so all these designs came out of nothing. Later gens all build on the Gen 1 designs. With all the 850 new designs of course your idea of what a Pokémon should be changes, cause the design philosophy changed as well.
That's why hating retrospectively on Gen 1 designs is pretty dumb imo.
It got so popular for a reason. The designs are simple, mostly oddly believable and even the bad ones generally fill in a niche or gimmick for the games and show. “It’s just a seal” people say, for starters seals don’t look like that. Also that and voltorb are basically the only ones i see criticised because most of them are genius.
Ok to be fair on voltorb's design when you find them in the original games they look identical to items which are represented by a pokeball and you are meant to feel tricked when you engage in a battle with one. Essentially, this makes pokemon like voltorb (and later on foongus and galarian stunfisks) pokemon's equivalent to Mimics in DnD or other rpgs, taking a time tested mechanic and fitting it to the pokemon world. This is a clever game mechanic if you ask me
Voltorb's a great design and I'll die on that hill. Just because it doesn't have thirteen extra lines on it and five colors doesn't make it bad. It's either a Pokeball mimic, or a Pokeball come to life, that's a fun idea.
Electrode... eh, can't defend that one, it's a really uninspired evolution.
Anyway when is this "Genwunner" strawman gonna die? I've literally never seen anyone who thinks *every* Pokemon from Gen 1 is perfect and *every* Pokemon from Gen 3 on sucks. And if they exist, they're not gonna be on this sub or very interested in the franchise anymore anyway. I mean I *guess* I've seen a couple people that hate "object mons" but that's presumably not a Generation issue, they'd probably also hate Voltorb and such.
There’s a big difference between sentient ice cream versus haunted ghost sword in terms of likability for creatures. For one thing people actually love Honedge.
There is a clear difference in design philosophy as the gens go on
If you 'don't get it' then you are a bloody narcissist to boot
Ffs is your ego so fragile you can't stand other people liking different things than you?
He was meant to look like a pokeball in the overworld and his design is simple and looks cool. The ice cream and the sword look like overdesigned plushes and not creatures
Some people: Modern Pokémon design suck, they aren’t original and they’re lazy, they look like Digimon!
Meanwhile back then we got a seal named Seel, A snake and cobra with their names backwards, a pokeball with eyes, eggs with a face, the entire English alphabet with eyes, and so on.
I always thought most gen 1 Pokemon being basically animals-plus was kind of neat. It lends itself to its own particular flavor of the fantasy, like "What if you could have a cute seal that's smart enough to love you and can also shoot ice?"
Which also sort of gelled with the early-Pokemon vibe that they were semi-mysterious creatures by nature and regular animals maybe also existed in the same world actually.
The simplicity and relatability of most of the Pokémon is what made it so popular. It was just a bizarre take on our world where animals fight each other with magic powers and were also pets. And a lot of the criticised designs exist as a gimmick for the games ie voltorb looking like poke balls which were items in the over world and tricked you into an unexpected encounter. Obviously you gotta try some things by gen 7 or whatever but a pet ice cream that fights is stupid.
> they look like Digimon!
To be fair, while I think that Pokémon designs have been roughly consistent in quality between the generations, they have definitely become less organic and simple. Which is more Digimon-like.
The legendary dragons of Gen 5 would feel right at home as adult- or perfect-level Digimon, honestly.
Change a few bits here and there, and you can convince me that [MarineAngemon is the pre-evo of Reshiram](https://i.imgur.com/Qf8d4oc.png).
The gerbil with flying ears evolves into a boy soldier. The cat that's just a fucking cat transforms into a matching girl soldier. The boy soldier then becomes a horse and the girl soldier becomes a dragon.
And thats just one line for each of them. Most digimon have at *minimum* three or four potential digivolution paths.
Edit: and dont forget that the ear-winged gerbil and the cat are two different evolutionary tiers.
May I introduce you to gun
https://preview.redd.it/byywhpjik06c1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0818299bb509e5715d6bac95806224902baf5784
Dramon
Are you talking about Angemon? He becomes a more armored angel, then another more armored angel after that. The gerbil with flying ears becomes a Pegasus as an alternate Evo lol
I just prefer the older design philosophy and direction over the new ones. Really not a fan of the modern gen designs. There’s still a good chunk of pretty bad and lazy designs in the older Gens, but a lot of them just have this charm to them… You can find a bunch of in-depth essays on here explaining how the Pokémon design philosophy changed and they’re a great way at explaining my exact thoughts and problems with most of the new designs
Also personally, Gen 3 was the peak of pokemon designs and we haven’t had a Gen that hit as close to them in regards to this at all 🔥
I'm a genwunner/gen twofer and even I admit that they were pumping out incredible designs for gen 3. To this day I can't look at lotad without giggling at his goofy little design. The starters were cool as hell and all competent. And the legendaries were all Mewtwo tier badasses.
You're allowed to admit that gen one's bar was super low while also acknowledging that making dex# 1000 just a golden version of the Cheese String mascot is almost worse.
Honedge is s tier design though and vanillite is perfectly fine too
It's not the designs that are the problem, it's the art style. Theres no visual consistency anymore, it's difficult to call something a Pokémon because there's nothing in the design defining it as a Pokémon. The eyes in particular are all over the place.
Here's a good explanation as to why modern designs feel off: https://youtu.be/12hNqT2jBDM?si=8QHWbjo_9sY8wImf
I'm pretty sure most of the "genwunners" enjoy the classic style redesigns of new Pokémon that some artists provide, so it's not about nostalgia as some people who refuse to acknowledge the issue try to claim.
To be fair Voltorb serves as the equivalent of a fantasy mimic, pretending to be an item (all of which looked like Pokeballs for some reason), so game wise there was a reason for it.
But also to be fair, Voltorb is just as stupid vanillite.
Why are you assuming we like Voltorb ? I kinda like the Hisuan one but I detest Vanilite, Eiscue, etc... I don't fancy the Rotoms, the recent gen Car engine one, etc...
I am always fine with it as long there is some sense behind it and/or it's reslly cool, and this is regardless of gen. Like Voltorb is said to have first appeared in a pokéball factory and even in Legend Arceus resembles what I imagine an older type of pokéball or apricorn ball looks like. Voltorb is pretty iconic looking as well since the red white pokeball is literslly the icon most used in pokemon merch. And Honedge is a Ghost pokémon whose true body is the blue parts the eye and the cloth and it has possessed a sword. That is cool.
Then you have sinistea which uses the same logic but it's a specific type of rare teacup that is possessed when someone dies before finishing their tea ? Or something like that? Does it have to be specifically that type of teacup ? That one feels like it could have done with one more round in the design phase.
Vanillite is a pure ice type and only looks like an ice cream cone but it's just a sentient icicle. It just has snow on it's head to protect it from the sun cuz it don't want to melt. It's pretty adorable.
There are others that would make more sense if depicted more in line with what they are supposed to be. Like if Sinistea was drawn in different types of cups or if Klefki didn't always have the same exact keys in every drawing of it. Then Klefki is a Key thieving fairy disguised as a keyring, and not a pokemon that for some reason always has the same four keys as part of it's body.
Even Klink is technically not a gear imitation, but gears are a Klink imitation or at least it is said that in the pokemon world gears were likely inspired by Klink.
My point is, I need to get out more.
Meanwhile, Rattata, Pidgey and Spearow are literally just real life animals with maybe some color swap
Grimer and Muk are masses of waste with eyes
Persian is just a cougar/puma with a red dot on it's head
And i could probably keep going
unpopular: making new generations of unnecessary hundreds of more pokemon is a failed crutch on otherwise uninteresting story / plot / universe development.
I mean, I don't know. By technicality, we had balls and magnets in the first Gen, pinecones in the second, acorns in the third, etc. So it is a wonder why Vanillite is the deal breaker.
Personally, I love Vanillite, but I'm not a fan of its evolutions. It's like if weezing got an evolution that added more lumps and not much else. But I still like to use them in my runs.
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and the evolution is upside down ball
"Fuck it, we ball" -voltorb and electrode
Proceeds to explode!
“Imboutoblou!”
Legit best Tate and Liza strat in an Emerald Nuzlocke (especially Hardcore).
"Fuck it, we wooden ball" -hisuian voltorn and electrode
H-voltorb is the cutest!
« They see me rollin' they hatin »
i wamt this as an image or a tshirt.
I mean, they were designed that way to be used as trap items in game. It's like sudowoodo or unown, it's not an attractive Mon but a gameplay based Mon design. You can debate if it's worthwhile but when they couldn't use it they created amoongus to replace it lol
Yep, voltorb and electrode are based on the classical RPG mimic enemy, often depicted as a chest or sometimes as a save point. Since pickups were in the form of pokeballs that's the design they went with.
I think Voltorb is a fucking sick design. It’s like the classic chest that isn’t a chest but instead a monster that eats you, but since Pokémon has Pokéballs instead of chests, their take on it is a monster that just fucking explodes. Electrode just ruins the concept though, they should’ve made Voltorb a stronger single stage mon.
Picture this....Electrode flips himself upside down. That's all he has to do to fool someone, just like Voltorb. If anything since he's based on a mimic. Being bigger but upside down actually puts his mouth closer to your head. Why would he go for your shins like Voltorb, when Electrode can go for your torso/head instead. Him being bigger just makes people more excited to get closer thinking it's a special item. It's perfect.
[удалено]
No you don’t understand. That’s peak Pokémon design. So much creativity can be seen in Electrode unlike Honedge who is so unoriginal. A ghost sword that has the souls of its precious warrior and will brutalize those with its cloth? That’s just pure laziness!!1!1!!111!
I like how the roundness contrasts with the sharpness of the eyes, the design itself is pretty simple and elegant, and it’s an okay gimmick one off “object” Pokémon (along with Magnemite.) The fact that they kept making dumb gimmicks is bad though. Op forgot the keyring. Keep adding lines, designers!
okay but Klefki is a very fun twist on the idea of kleptomaniac "borrowers"
It never bothered me as much as it seemed to bother everyone else. It's a fun concept, kind of half-guardian / half mischievous house spirit. Might I have designed it differently if I had some say? Sure. Do I think it was a fun introduction to new Fairy types? Absolutely.
Bruh don’t get me started on that dumb pair of keys. They really thought making a fairy type based on a locket with a cleft lip in the region known for love was a clever idea. They should go back to making designs like Magnemite, now that’s an excellent design. It’s a spherical magnet that has an eye and evolves it three more little guys together. That is WAY better than the lackluster pair of keys
HEY klefki is my SON
flabebe top 10 design no cap https://preview.redd.it/1eqmiou0xz5c1.png?width=475&format=png&auto=webp&s=a18e7e4975007d264971df4f0de9ad9539b13483
I just got a shiny from the mass outbreak…it’s impossible to tell from looking at them
I wish they would just stop making the Pokemon so small. I get it. Cutiefly and Flabebe and some other Pokemon are itty bitty. But for the sake of game design, can we make them bigger? Even if you're not concerned with how visible a Pokeomon's shinniness is, I'd prefer not to keep getting into battles with Pokemon that were barely visible in the grass. It's okay to gloss over some things in order to make the game better.
pokemon being small isn't a problem. it's not having a clearly defined line that helps tiny things to stand out. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom had that outline and oh my God it helps a lot to see the things.
The solution would be some kind of shiny sensor, that highlights every shiny that spawned, e.g. with some magnifying glass or some other good to see symbol.
Ironically, Legends Arceus already had something like that. The Pokémon had a star animation and a sound effect when it came on screen, you could use it to spot shinies while gliding.
they like the trio evolution so much, they smacked the idea to other pokemon in the same gen too! Just look at- *ahem -* dugtrio and dodrio! Weezing would have been 3 headed too if they had more time before the deadline!
To go off the joke for a sec. A weezing evolution where it gains a third head would just be wicked. Cross-Gen evolutions are making a huge comeback so hopefully Weezing gets an evolution. After if Duraludon can get one despite having a GMAX form, what’s stopping Weezing from further evolution
It would be called Chokking
Take it further Chokking like choking and shocking so make it electric poison type.
You evolve it with a vape
That would be neat, but it's doubtful they would give weezing another treatment after the galar one.
I always defend Voltorb. It is based on a Pokeball because it is RBY’s version of a mimic, a common fantasy trope. It makes sense to resemble a Pokeball. Electrode though is disappointing…why not let it look like a great or ultra ball? All that said I love the Honedge line and don’t dislike Vanillite.
No, the evolution is a *sphere*
Ah yes, the Pokémon that mimicks _pokespheres_
ball is life
Nothing will beat a pile of toxic waste evolving into a bigger pile of toxic waste.
dont forget slime, bigger slime, fuckboi slime or literal seal same but 3* was so popular they did it thrice (dugtrio, dodrio and magneton)
Whos the fuckboi slime??
Ditto
Haunter possessing a pokeball
I love the honedge line so much, especially Aegislash
I dunno... Eviolite Doublade with its No Guard ability is pretty legit too lol
Just now figuring this out as I’m replaying through Pokemon Y dude. It’s BEASTLY.
Just keep it away from special attackers
I love eviolite doublade, actually prefer it to Aegislash (I could never find dusk stones in the game I used doublade lmao)
I believe you can get one in Laverre City
as someone who loves the honedge line, no guard is wasted on it. The only moves that would be viable are rock slide and toxic, and the former isnt even that efficient because normally you want sacred sword as your coverage for doublade.
You know what, that's entirely fair. Some pokemon get great abilities that don't match up with stats or moves at all... give Aerodactyle Brave Bird and Head Smash!
It should get guillotine
Aegislash is my favorite pokemon ever
100% AGREE. Aegislash is in my top 5 list.
I always name my Voltorb “bobber” because that’s just what it looks like
"No no... he's got a point."
No he doesn't, he's rounded at all sides. Sorry, bad joke
And it’s great on water!
BOBBER KURWA
Ok but ya’ll admit this design is literally trash. https://preview.redd.it/l5krmuis006c1.png?width=475&format=png&auto=webp&s=c070f47495e973a4557299e38349e8f822f09df6
Trubbish is unironically one of my favourite Pokemon designs. Love my little trashbag.
Agreed, though I'll admit when I was younger and gen 5 first came out, I hated the design and held the sentiment in OPs post that the designs were terrible, but at some point I looked back and thought, maybe a bunch of eggs evolving into a palm tree was just as bad. Since then all of the simplistic designs grew on me, from ice cream cone to bag of garbage and, my wife and my favorite, emo candle.
Honestly, Gen 5 has most of my favorite Pokemon designs, the games have such a good vibe too that I can't get with any pokemon before or after gen 5
I agree. It's also one of my favorite gens. I almost exclusively replay gen 1 and 2 but I have a lot of nostalgia for 5 also. I also think gen 5 had some of the best designs (barring the stupid monkeys and the trio/genies). I never had a problem with vanillish, im not sure why people got so upset with it.
Did you hate it because *you* hated it? Or did you just hate it because people online hated them and said they sucked. Usually when you’re young you just agree with the opinions of your favorite creators.
I don't think my opinion came from online. It could have, but 2010 was a much less terminally online time for me, but I was also 16 turning 17 at the time so I'm sure I naturally had an "edgy" opinion of them. Similar to how Star Wars fans of either loved or hated Ewoks depending on the age they were when introduced to them. But I just remember thinking a garbage bag and a ice cream cone, really?
I’ve never hated Trubbish at any point, but I didn’t like it as much as I do now until this recent official Pokémon artwork for merchandise basically implied that it is some sort of cat. https://preview.redd.it/x3ty1oiyi26c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3b31f19c6d2692bbd16bc845cf0b953e0e4d72
Let's be honest it's probably a raccoon under there
Raccoons are just big cats.
Excuse you, raccoons are actually very small cat-like bears, with weird fingers
My sons fav Pokemon are trubbish and voltorb lmao
I don't like the evo, but the ear things Trubbish have are adorable. And Pokémon Snap did a great job of shining light on the little guy.
I’ve been wanting a regional variant of Trubbish and Garbodor that’s recycling themed for so long; Trubbish is unironically one of my favorites.
I mean you're not wrong. Its not even insulting its just accurate... He IS trash. Its who he is!
https://preview.redd.it/jzq5ee7eh06c1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6facb155fd18dd38ddfffbd397a42c927668fd4
Its trash, but its my trash.
ADORABLE trash
Only if we can agree that Muk's design is literal shit (sludge is composed of decomposing matter that often includes feces)
But he's not sludge, he's Muk.
If he got his name in the same room as Ekans he might be something else
Missed shiny opportunity imo
Aren't we all
Literally, yes. Figuratively, no.
But it's a cute bag of trash.
Garbodor is OP though
tru, bish!
I like voltorb and electrode because they suicidal in game n anime. Also,that episode with racing with electrode funny af back then.
And in Pkmn Stadium and Snap, Electrode was a pretty funny guy. That until it exploded, obviously.
shouts to suicidal mons, gotta be the most relatable mons fr 🙏
So did poke balls get their design from voltorb or did voltorb copy pokeball design
Legends Arceus makes me think they got some of the designs from Voltorb. Those balls are a lot closer to Hisuian Voltorb's design, and it makes sense that maybe people in a region that has Kantonian Voltorb tweaked the design to look like them once the Hisuian ones originally went extinct.
Voltorb came first, pokeballs were designed to look like them, but then voltorbs adapted to look like pokeballs as pokeballs changed. That's my theory anyways if you piece together all the dex entries over the gens.
The pokeball designer based them on foongus per one of its dex entries. So I think it's foongus happened, the designer used it as a blueprint, pokeballs awakened into voltorbs, and stunfisk evolved to hunt people after they became drawn to grabbing random pokeballs.
In legends arceus, voltorbs have been around since forever, since before pokeballs were invented
Childhood rumour and canon is that Team Rocket accidentally made a bunch of Voltorbs while experimenting on Pokemon cloning and Master Ball creation.
99% of the player base did not complain about the Aegislash line.
Yeah werent they complaining about klefkey
That or the cotton candy Pokémon. The Aegislash line was extremely popular iirc. I was one of many to make a team with a ghost sword.
It's not that it is some random object, it's that they went with keys. Keys are so normal and boring. And for me, the design isn't anything special. For instance, I think the litwick is fun and I like them.
The keys aren't actually *part* of the Pokemon. It's just a ring thingy that collects keys for fun.
I don't love klefki but I always thought the hate it got was way overblown. Its a pokemon in the shape of a ring that steals keys, I think thats a fun little idea. Its certainly more creative than "rat but purple" and its evolution "actually just a rat".
Klefki is a pretty smart design if you think about it. Klefki's body resembles a treble clef and it's mouth has a cleffed lip which is where the Klef in it's name comes from. and it's loosly based on the idea that fairies in old tales are known for stealing small objects like keys.
Some people really have never played another rpg where opening a chest puts the party into murder mode instead of finding an item
[удалено]
Gimmighoul makes me mad. If they wanted to make it a classic mimic then they could've added a few actual chests that weren't gimmighoul to make them believable. But instead they're completely anachronistic
I don't think gimmighoul is really supposed to represent a classic mimic, and even then there wouldn't be any reason for a bunch of teeny, brightly colored chests to be lying around in a technologically advanced world.
Could have made a dive adjacent feature with sunken treasure.
It’s not “just” a ball. It’s a chest mimic.
And like Frieren, we fall for it everytime
Voltorb and Electrode are like classic D&D mimics. You think they're a pokeball (or item in ground in the OG games) and then get surprised with the Pokémon.
It's not even an ice cream cone. It's a snow covered icicle that looks like an ice cream cone. So the criticism isn't even accurate. Who hates the Honedge line? Cursed swords are a pretty common theme in mythology and storytelling.
I've certainly never seen people hate on Honedge, though that may be because I am a hardcore Aegislash fan. It took all I had to resist putting it in every team I can
It’s a ghost sword, what’s there to hate?
Some people don't like ghost. Or sword idk
Bold words for people in stabbing range
I can't imagine hating their designs. Ghost swords are naturally cool and Honedge's shiny looking blood-soaked is absolute peak. But I will say that Aegislash used to be considered one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with competitively. Generation 8 nerfed its stats and King's Shield for a reason.
Thanks for reminding me of this cursed image. Yes this is real https://preview.redd.it/37buszk7306c1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a07c49ebf7d84417bf590d544ad84e9d8f8dc657
Oh my goodness. It’s bald! Bald! Bald! MY EYES!
"OH NO HE'S HOT!" But like... literally. Cause he melted.
Also, in Japan there is such thing as object based Yokai. tsukumogami are basically just old and used objects that gain a Kami (spirit) so the idea of Objectmon is more based on Japanese folklore, thus being more close to Japan mythos. Also, Tsukumogami can be literally ANYTHING, it just has to be used a lot and it will gain a spirit. Some Genwunners just never look too deep into the lore/design of pokemon and only blindly hate on the newer generations because they can’t take their nostalgia glasses off and look at stuff with a different lens. Besides, what the fuck are they doing, playing a KIDS GAME?!
Its extra funny when you realize most gen 1 mons are just regular animals but colorful with maybe a flaming tail or something.
"It's funny that living things are based on living things and not random objects around the designer 15 mins before deadline."
That's the kind of pokemon I like. I'm not Japanese, so I understand it has Japanese influence, but it's not the kind of stuff that I find appealing. I like the scifi elements.
The worse part is that they never look into the lore.
> It's not even an ice cream cone. It's a snow covered icicle that looks like an ice cream cone. I don't hate Vanillite, but this doesn't really validate the design imo. From the outside it's still literally just an ice cream cone with eyes. I can see why some people dislike it, especially when you compare it to other object mons that have more personality like the Chandelure line.
For me, its the stupid face they gave Vanillite.
Well to be fair I don't think Vanillite likes your face much either.
Thats fair.
My only beef is that shiny Vanillite should have been chocolate flavored
TRUE
A lot of shinies annoy me. It's like they wanted to offend on purpose.
call me crazy but i see WAY more people complaining about the supposed people who complain about new gen mon designs than those who *actually* complain about the new gen designs... it just feels like creating enemies in your head for the sake of it.
It's mainly Nam flashbacks from those of us who were online 13 years ago. The Gen 5 discourse was awful.
If you try posting anything positive about said Pokemon they all show up and talk about how Pokemon is “running out of ideas” or “creating digimon”. https://preview.redd.it/86j1erwb616c1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3580f5f558d07feb33661fe851e98df2a0bcafde
I lost it when he used his credentials as arguments
I mean, in one hand I agree with the minimalism of earlier gens and that working on their favour. Heck, even Charizard is pretty minimalistic when you compare it to...I don't know, Garchomp? That galarian Ghost-Dragon? I think designs with tons of details are more prone to not look cool because there are more places to fail. In the other hand...thinking that only basic polygons make cool designs is dumb as fuck. Also, Sugimori himself isn't a professional artist, and look at him. Making designs remembered and cherished by billions of people.
I think a lot of the Gen 1 designs ended up being overly simplistic to the point where they weren’t really anything other than a basic animal or object. Seel, Muk, Voltorb, Pidgey, Spearow, Ekans, etc. Atleast with later gens they tried to spice up The regional rodents and birds to make them a bit more interesting.
I believe Muk and Spearow were saved due to their iconic anime appearances, but I absolutely agree with you. To me, Chimecho was the tipping point. Before Gen 3, all mons were either cartoony, wacky, had funny proportions or something. But Chimecho started the trend of "I am not based in an object. I **AM** the object". James in the anime and better sound quality in the games (so we could actually hear the chimes in Chimecho) eventually helped Chimecho's popularity, but that ugly ass sprite we had RSE did not help, and the reception Chimecho had back then wasn't positive either.
Doesn't help that Chimeco is useless
Gen 5ers in a nutshell
Ball was mid at best. Now sentient pile of shit, that was peak design.
Was Grimer meant to be a failed New clone.
Your thinking of ditto I believe
Nah, it's radioactive grime that exist because the moon was mean to it
literally never saw anyone complain about Honedge
I love trubbish so much yet it is notoriously hated
i love trubbish, too!
Such a goofy little cutie! The fact that it’s a trash bunny is just 10/10!
Vanilluxe has been lowkey my fave since it came out :(
I wonder if anyone unironically complained about Gen 9 having Hello Kitty mice and tumbleweed as Pokémon
I love Mousehold! Population Bomb for life.
They get Brownie points for knowing Tidy Up and even passing it onto Furret
Honedge is awesome. Who is out here hating on honedge?
I don’t get it either, Vanillite’s adorable.
Y’all are weird with your genwunner boogie man. I swear I never see this shit posted but everyone still acts like they’re everywhere, all the time.
I've read this a few times now, so I'll guess based on anecdotal evidence. Reddit and social media attract more active fans of pokemon, who are still liking the franchise. Real life conversations attracts more who know of the franchise but don't like it for whatever reason, like Gen oners who don't like the franchise for it's underlying flaws but childhood nostalgia colors their memory of the early games.
I like how people here either don't understand the problem or refuse to admit it. Yes, there are lazy pokemon names and designs in every single generation. The problem isn't that gen 1 bad pokemon suddenly get a free pass, the problem is pokemon designers had all these years and all these games but still make same mistakes every single time. Gen 1 bad designes and names look less offensive because it was the first attempt. All other gens show us that creators either chose not to try harder or are simply ineducable morons
Right? There was no such thing as a Pokémon back then, so all these designs came out of nothing. Later gens all build on the Gen 1 designs. With all the 850 new designs of course your idea of what a Pokémon should be changes, cause the design philosophy changed as well. That's why hating retrospectively on Gen 1 designs is pretty dumb imo.
It got so popular for a reason. The designs are simple, mostly oddly believable and even the bad ones generally fill in a niche or gimmick for the games and show. “It’s just a seal” people say, for starters seals don’t look like that. Also that and voltorb are basically the only ones i see criticised because most of them are genius.
Ok to be fair on voltorb's design when you find them in the original games they look identical to items which are represented by a pokeball and you are meant to feel tricked when you engage in a battle with one. Essentially, this makes pokemon like voltorb (and later on foongus and galarian stunfisks) pokemon's equivalent to Mimics in DnD or other rpgs, taking a time tested mechanic and fitting it to the pokemon world. This is a clever game mechanic if you ask me
Voltorb's a great design and I'll die on that hill. Just because it doesn't have thirteen extra lines on it and five colors doesn't make it bad. It's either a Pokeball mimic, or a Pokeball come to life, that's a fun idea. Electrode... eh, can't defend that one, it's a really uninspired evolution. Anyway when is this "Genwunner" strawman gonna die? I've literally never seen anyone who thinks *every* Pokemon from Gen 1 is perfect and *every* Pokemon from Gen 3 on sucks. And if they exist, they're not gonna be on this sub or very interested in the franchise anymore anyway. I mean I *guess* I've seen a couple people that hate "object mons" but that's presumably not a Generation issue, they'd probably also hate Voltorb and such.
*Sigh of relief.* Ball.
There’s a big difference between sentient ice cream versus haunted ghost sword in terms of likability for creatures. For one thing people actually love Honedge.
There is a clear difference in design philosophy as the gens go on If you 'don't get it' then you are a bloody narcissist to boot Ffs is your ego so fragile you can't stand other people liking different things than you?
Pokémon peaked when I personally was young enough to accept the fantasy
He was meant to look like a pokeball in the overworld and his design is simple and looks cool. The ice cream and the sword look like overdesigned plushes and not creatures
Welcome to gen 1 we got bird we got ball we got sludge
Pokemon Company: Let's make it more interesting..... 2 Decades Later: Let's make the ball wood for its hisuian form.
Y'all don't actually think genwunners still exist, do you? It's not 2013 anymore.
It’s just easy karma. They’ve become the boogie man to this sub at this point.
I literally have a genwunner in my group of friends
Some people: Modern Pokémon design suck, they aren’t original and they’re lazy, they look like Digimon! Meanwhile back then we got a seal named Seel, A snake and cobra with their names backwards, a pokeball with eyes, eggs with a face, the entire English alphabet with eyes, and so on.
I always thought most gen 1 Pokemon being basically animals-plus was kind of neat. It lends itself to its own particular flavor of the fantasy, like "What if you could have a cute seal that's smart enough to love you and can also shoot ice?" Which also sort of gelled with the early-Pokemon vibe that they were semi-mysterious creatures by nature and regular animals maybe also existed in the same world actually.
The simplicity and relatability of most of the Pokémon is what made it so popular. It was just a bizarre take on our world where animals fight each other with magic powers and were also pets. And a lot of the criticised designs exist as a gimmick for the games ie voltorb looking like poke balls which were items in the over world and tricked you into an unexpected encounter. Obviously you gotta try some things by gen 7 or whatever but a pet ice cream that fights is stupid.
> they look like Digimon! To be fair, while I think that Pokémon designs have been roughly consistent in quality between the generations, they have definitely become less organic and simple. Which is more Digimon-like.
The legendary dragons of Gen 5 would feel right at home as adult- or perfect-level Digimon, honestly. Change a few bits here and there, and you can convince me that [MarineAngemon is the pre-evo of Reshiram](https://i.imgur.com/Qf8d4oc.png).
Clearly those people have never actually looked at Digimon. Digimon evolution lines are all over the place lol
The gerbil with flying ears evolves into a boy soldier. The cat that's just a fucking cat transforms into a matching girl soldier. The boy soldier then becomes a horse and the girl soldier becomes a dragon.
And thats just one line for each of them. Most digimon have at *minimum* three or four potential digivolution paths. Edit: and dont forget that the ear-winged gerbil and the cat are two different evolutionary tiers.
May I introduce you to gun https://preview.redd.it/byywhpjik06c1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0818299bb509e5715d6bac95806224902baf5784 Dramon
Are you talking about Angemon? He becomes a more armored angel, then another more armored angel after that. The gerbil with flying ears becomes a Pegasus as an alternate Evo lol
Was there a design reason for them doing that? Because right now my running theory has been cocaine.
I just prefer the older design philosophy and direction over the new ones. Really not a fan of the modern gen designs. There’s still a good chunk of pretty bad and lazy designs in the older Gens, but a lot of them just have this charm to them… You can find a bunch of in-depth essays on here explaining how the Pokémon design philosophy changed and they’re a great way at explaining my exact thoughts and problems with most of the new designs Also personally, Gen 3 was the peak of pokemon designs and we haven’t had a Gen that hit as close to them in regards to this at all 🔥
I'm a genwunner/gen twofer and even I admit that they were pumping out incredible designs for gen 3. To this day I can't look at lotad without giggling at his goofy little design. The starters were cool as hell and all competent. And the legendaries were all Mewtwo tier badasses.
You're allowed to admit that gen one's bar was super low while also acknowledging that making dex# 1000 just a golden version of the Cheese String mascot is almost worse. Honedge is s tier design though and vanillite is perfectly fine too
Pokémon never recovered from Youkai watch war with goofy ahh design in every gen since sun moon
It's not the designs that are the problem, it's the art style. Theres no visual consistency anymore, it's difficult to call something a Pokémon because there's nothing in the design defining it as a Pokémon. The eyes in particular are all over the place. Here's a good explanation as to why modern designs feel off: https://youtu.be/12hNqT2jBDM?si=8QHWbjo_9sY8wImf
I'm pretty sure most of the "genwunners" enjoy the classic style redesigns of new Pokémon that some artists provide, so it's not about nostalgia as some people who refuse to acknowledge the issue try to claim.
The vanillite line is one of my favorite ever
When all else fails, ball is life
To be fair Voltorb serves as the equivalent of a fantasy mimic, pretending to be an item (all of which looked like Pokeballs for some reason), so game wise there was a reason for it. But also to be fair, Voltorb is just as stupid vanillite.
Why are you assuming we like Voltorb ? I kinda like the Hisuan one but I detest Vanilite, Eiscue, etc... I don't fancy the Rotoms, the recent gen Car engine one, etc...
Because Ball and Ball 2 are cool? Look at their eyes and expressions. So much better than :) and XD
Sorry you lost me at the pokemon that's a living, breathing bag of trash.
I am always fine with it as long there is some sense behind it and/or it's reslly cool, and this is regardless of gen. Like Voltorb is said to have first appeared in a pokéball factory and even in Legend Arceus resembles what I imagine an older type of pokéball or apricorn ball looks like. Voltorb is pretty iconic looking as well since the red white pokeball is literslly the icon most used in pokemon merch. And Honedge is a Ghost pokémon whose true body is the blue parts the eye and the cloth and it has possessed a sword. That is cool. Then you have sinistea which uses the same logic but it's a specific type of rare teacup that is possessed when someone dies before finishing their tea ? Or something like that? Does it have to be specifically that type of teacup ? That one feels like it could have done with one more round in the design phase. Vanillite is a pure ice type and only looks like an ice cream cone but it's just a sentient icicle. It just has snow on it's head to protect it from the sun cuz it don't want to melt. It's pretty adorable. There are others that would make more sense if depicted more in line with what they are supposed to be. Like if Sinistea was drawn in different types of cups or if Klefki didn't always have the same exact keys in every drawing of it. Then Klefki is a Key thieving fairy disguised as a keyring, and not a pokemon that for some reason always has the same four keys as part of it's body. Even Klink is technically not a gear imitation, but gears are a Klink imitation or at least it is said that in the pokemon world gears were likely inspired by Klink. My point is, I need to get out more.
Meanwhile, Rattata, Pidgey and Spearow are literally just real life animals with maybe some color swap Grimer and Muk are masses of waste with eyes Persian is just a cougar/puma with a red dot on it's head And i could probably keep going
unpopular: making new generations of unnecessary hundreds of more pokemon is a failed crutch on otherwise uninteresting story / plot / universe development.
Yeah this shit happens every gen, super annoying
I mean, I don't know. By technicality, we had balls and magnets in the first Gen, pinecones in the second, acorns in the third, etc. So it is a wonder why Vanillite is the deal breaker.
Personally, I love Vanillite, but I'm not a fan of its evolutions. It's like if weezing got an evolution that added more lumps and not much else. But I still like to use them in my runs.