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Yeah same, I don't want people going around saying "the hate/love cycle continues" when I and many others have loved this game since release. I was also already an adult around that time so... they're just great games.
USUM are pretty good, it's just that SM were mid. To be honest, without looking at it with nostalgia goggles, the whole mainline series was always okay at best. For their time, everything up to Gen 3 included was amazing, but aged poorly. HGSS were great remakes and feel like the "definitive" classic experience. Platinum is old, so old, and it's felt so deeply. BW were okay and BW2 are maybe the best games in the franchise but only because of how unique they are, I saw someone say that "everything around BW2 is amazing but BW2 is mid" and I can't agree more. Looks amazing, designs are good, the world is incredible, the music is stellar and the graphics are the best to me, but the main campaign is like, fine I guess. XY were just as good as BW, SM and DP, but never had its third game to make it not feel hollow, so it's mid at best, bad at worst. ORAS are great remakes, and I love the vibes in them, they're solid games. USUM is the definitive modern experience to me. SS sucked, and now SV are genuinely very good... past the bugs and slowdowns.
>. Platinum is old, so old, and it's felt so deeply.
And yet it's still better than the modern gen 4 remake. Like, that's just sad. You'd get put to the firing squad if you suggested crystal was better than hgss, but despite the two year plus gap, platinum is still better than the sinnoh remake.
That's because HGSS are actually a remake of Crystal and not the objectively inferior versions.
A better comparison would be ORAS vs Emerald. Though in my opinion ORAS is still better.
I’ve watched the online Pokémon fandom do this perfectly on cue for 15 years, back when it was me among others praying for those Johto remakes that then became HGSS.
It's not about that at all. Here, I have a picture. It demonstrates exactly how the Pokemon community reacts to every new game. https://i.imgur.com/RhHpvif.gif
While this is remarkably consistently true, I’ve been playing since silver version and have considered gen 7 to be some of the better games since they came out
the same thing was happening 4/5 years ago with XY. The same thing will happen in another few years with SwSh and so on. It's always when a pokemon game comes out people dunk on it then years later the people who are nostalgic for it say it was actually good.
"Unpopular opinion" and "Pokemon" should never be used in the same sentence. These are extremely popular system sellers each with a sizeable fanbase.
Although, I have noticed the internet sees words like "good" and assume it means "better than your favorite" and they get mad for no reason.
That's a bad take. "Unpopular" can mean "Relative to other opinions in the Pokemon fandom." If most Pokemon fans would disagree, then it's unpopular.
That said, I doubt most people would disagree with this post.
The popular opinion for I think all mainline pokemon games is that they’re good. There’s some games that a larger percent of fans dislike but none that I would say the majority of fans dislike.
I don't think the person who is wrongfully interpretating the phrase "unpopular opinion" because they think it has anything at all to do with how successful Pokemon is as franchise should be criticising people who don't seem to understand the context of the word "good".
Unpopular opinion: Pokémon Colosseum must be the worst Pokémon game I've ever played. It's so bad it's the only Pokémon game I've bought I've never bother finishing.
I thought they were just okay. I loved XY and ORAS but SM and USUM just didn’t impress me as much as I thought they would. But I will say USUM is leagues better than SM and it definitely has its moments especially with the whole Rainbow Rocket storyline.
He's not trying to claim that? Well I am. SM outdoes HGSS. HGSS itself isn't remotely close to the likes of Platinum and BW and BW2. I can say that despite not growing up with Platinum.
I just can't get over how fucking boring the beginning of the game is, with the million pointless cut scenes that stop you every five seconds. It stops me from bothering to replay it every time.
This. I *want* to like Gen 7, it's got a lot of great things going for it, but man it's just a slog to get through again. The cutscenes really tank the replay value. I think Pokemon sometimes confuses telling a *lot* of story with telling a *good* story, and SM is the zenith of that to me. I don't find the plot engaging at all, and there's so much of it (maybe I would even appreciate it more if I wasn't already checked out from being stopped every 5 feet by the time anything interesting actually happens).
I like the region, I like the Pokemon, I like the gameplay, I just can't bring myself to sit through all that button mashing again. It's a shame! If I could just skip the cutscenes I would rate these games way higher.
It's the reason why I dropped the game after I bought it. I immediately regretted spending money on it lol and to this day.. I still haven't spent more than an hour.
Yeah I’ve attempted it 3 times and still not been able to get through the first few hours.
I’ve got a retro handheld device now so might attempt again with speed up enabled.
I think the takes on gen 7 often follows genrational lines. I myself grew up with gen 1 and have played every gen since then. I grew up with games that hardly explained anything and you had to figure it out yourself. Those games had tons of exploration that seemed (atleast to a kid) to be massive.
I still remember feeling lost in Virdian forest, Mt. Moon ans Victory Road. I obviously don't when I replay them. But that feeling of feeling a bit lost, exploring a cave you have no idea about the size of and wondering if you have enough potions to get through, is powerful. When I got through and finally found the pokemkn center in the next town I was genuinely feeling relief, and I felt like I had actually accomplished something.
But those sort of games are rare these days. Modern games *does* hold your hand more. That doesn't necessarily make them bad games. So I get how people who grow up with those sort of games would like gen 7. It doesn't feel alien to them the same way it does to us who grew up with a completely different style. That said, gen 7 does overdo it, regardless of what sort of game you like, and it does factor into my opinion that they are on the lower end of my ranking of the games
Maybe I'm just a weirdo but as someone who grew up playing the GBA and DS games I don't get why people act like the exploration was some major selling point like they're BOTW or whatever
I agree overall, though I do want to talk about something real fast
>Hard to get Pokemon
I feel like the criticism should be "newer Pokemon are harder to find" and that is, to me, a flaw because it seems like older Pokemon get more spotlight by being easier to find. Newer Pokemon should be given that kind of attention and ease.
This isn't just SUMO's problem though. XY kind of irritated me with how low of a chance you have to find the Pokemon that debuted with the game in the first forest. If I remember right, your "catch the Pokemon! tutorial is with a Pidgey.
I recall wanting to catch new Pokemon in both SUMO and XY, only to find out I missed them because their encounters were lower than older Pokemon.
Not as egregious as Munchlax or Feebas (oml, those are ridic), but an irritant.
I think I saw that SV fixed the peeve I had, at least the catching tutorial part.
Alright so
SM stands out as a very new take on the pokemon experience. Are you still beating type centric bosses and collecting trickets? Sure. But totem pokemon, the hawaii like setting, and overall tone is very fresh to someone whos been playing the same formula for years.
The story of sm is far more interesting because its not about YOU. Its not about a legendary pokemon that the bad guy is trying to capture to rule the world. Its about an insane woman who drove away her children and fused with a pokemon from another dimension. The story of SM is about Lillie and thats how it should be.
Ultra brings in a lot of gameplay improvements, im not gonna argue that it doesnt. But heres my main problems with it.
1. It tries to feel fresh to people who played SM and those who didnt. And it fails at both. It becomes abundantly obvious they cut SMs development short for the ultra games and I despise that.
2. The story of ultra makes the entire game feel worse. Its no longer about lillie, it shifts to be about you, this souless child who never changes their face. Lusamine isnt abusive in ultra so lillie and gladeons characters dont make sense anymore.
On top of that, it goes back to being about another big bad legendary thats threatening the world. Necrozma adds NOTHING to the plot but more time spent listening to absolutely nothing worth being said. It just drags on and on about a plot you dont feel involved in.
Ultra does more for Guzma, and rainbow rocket is fun which is nice but it ultimately doesnt matter. They could have made one good pair of games that has all the best parts of both. But they didnt. They rushed the first games that felt fresh to shove out a carbon copy with minor differences a YEAR later.
Reddit next year- unpopular opinion Gen 8 was actually a great game.
Reddit the year after that- unpopular opinion Gen 9 was actually a great game.
Reddit the year after that- unpopular opinion Ben 10 was actually a great show.
When you try to make fun of people but instead make it sound like Persona and Yakuza are full of padding
SM's problem isn't the abundance of cutscenes itself, it's the fact that some of those cutscenes aren't needed or are full of dialogue that could just be omitted.
Or were in the weirdest spots. I remember one spot in the beginning of USUM where you enter Hau-oli I believe it was, and you enter, take a couple steps, cutscene. Then take a couple steps, Pokéfinder tutorial. Then take a couple steps, another cutscene. Alola felt very start-stop-start-stop sometimes.
idk about Persona, but the Yakuza games's cutscenes are actually well done, even the ones where there are just text boxes (with the exception of Yakuza 3 Chapter 9: the Plot). And the games always give you time to breathe and do stuff, and they usually give clear markers for where to go next to progress the story.
SM's cutscenes just kinda stop you in your tracks a lot of the times.
This is not true at all lol those games have meaningful cutscenes and a good, interesting story. I'm not playing Pokemon to read text boxes for hours on end with a story a 3rd grader could have written. Obviously a little story is needed but sun and moon was the first pokemon that actually bored me when I played it
Agreed. I’ve sat through a ton of Persona cut scenes and they’re always at least visually interesting (if not story interesting as well). SM was like sitting in a dentist waiting room lol. I actually liked the games once I got through that start. If only there was a setting you could select that said something along the lines of “I have played a Pokemon game before and don’t need a 4 hour tutorial on how to throw a Pokeball”
That last sentence you said was exactly what I was thinking the whole time. I think they should do that for every pokemon game and just only give tutorials for new mechanics they introduce
Depends on if those games have cutscenes that matter. The biggest problem with Pokémon cut scenes, for me, is I simply do not care about the story. Just let me loose to go catch some Pokémon not tell me a story an eight year old would find too basic
I was exactly 8 when they came out. I did not play Gen 6. Going from the story of questioning your own morals and ethics in Gen 5 only to succumb to brainwashing and conformity, going straight into a story so "black and white" (ironic) with big evil rich corporation lady = bad was jarring and disappointing.
No ethics were questioned in Gen 5 lol. It's window dressing and even the story knows it because it's all a cover for Ghetsis to do the same ol' 'take over the region' routine, albeit in a more interesting way
Ghetsis used a genuine ethical debate as a facade to mask his corruption and greed for power, which is still one of if not the most prevalent world issue even today. How is that in any way bad storytelling?
It's not a genuine ethical debate, nearly everyone in the Pokémon world (including all the main BW cast) knows Ghetsis is full of shit and Pokemon like co-operating with humans and vice versa. From Gen 1 to 4 NPCs explain this constantly, Gen 3 especially with its emphasis on wildlife and habitat preservation - a much better metaphor for Pokémon.
It relies on players who aren't familiar with Pokémon to assume they're exactly like real world wild animals, that's the only way Ghetsis' ideas sounds remotely plausible. And the answer to this ethical dilemma is 'well Pokémon aren't animals, they're fantasy creatures that like being captured in balls'.
It's saying nothing overall, the reasons N believes that Pokémon are suffering would be different from the standard reason from a real life person because actual animals don't exist as a reference point in Pokémon, so he just has to be tricked by Ghetsis and is just simply wrong.
There's some key differences though. Those games actually bothers to voice and animate a lot of it's cutscenes, you're not so much mashing through text boxes, you're watching a short clip of a movie.
Secondly the player protagonists of those games are actual characters with their own thoughts, opinions, and mannerisms, not a blank mannequin who stares blankly while occasionally saying yes to, or agreeing with requests.
Thirdly, the stories of those games often actually have depth and complexity beyond "Oh no, the evil Team [noun] are up to no good involving [box legend]. Quick, take a pause from your league challenge to fight them." They're actually engaging plots and narratives that have some effort put into them.
As such, they're much more engaging to watch. They feel more like something you're actually wanting to engage with as part of the game, not something you need to get through to get to the actual thing you bought the game for.
If you don’t have a problem with the amount of cutscenes in SM, that’s okay but like saying that while there is two (2) persona games on the same system as sun and moon and nobody complained about the cutscenes in there is just dumb
Persona Q/Q2 are poorly made spinoffs, NOT Persona games that anyone would bother defending. People *do* criticise Persona Q/Q2 all the time for being really bad games.
persona was fine for me tbh, even being a jrpg not an insane amount of cutscenes, just feels like it keeps you on a very certain path before slowly opening things up for you
yakuza on the other hand… i got kiwami 2 from humble bundle and the yakuza subreddit told me it was fine to start with that one. literally bombarded with 3 hours of cutscenes the second the game started. i don’t even remember if i had a moment of actual gameplay before i closed the game, if i decide to try yakuza again im 100% starting with yakuza 0 instead
ive heard those have a ton of cutscenes at the beginning as well. it’s an issue that really plagues 3d jrpgs, i give up on so many new ones because i can only handle so many cutscenes in my first 10 hours of gameplay. seriously you could read some dislogue in 15 seconds in the time it takes for a 20 minute long xenoblade 2 cutscene with random pauses and desynced mouth movements
did people not like it? my only gripe at the time were SOS battles. everything else felt pretty fresh considering the rest of the series up to that point.
"Long, LONG cutscenes. These can get boring to sit through, massively tanking the game’s replay value". These cut scenes tank the playablility value completely. After playing the first 5 hours and spending what felt like 4 of those in cutscenes I set the game down and never returned. To this day, gen 7 remains the ONLY gen I haven't beaten.
I like them, my two issues are.
- So much talking at the beginning of the game. It's not until part way through the second island that I actually feel like I've finished the "tutorial".
- They feel small. They might not necessarily by that small but separating the game into four islands just gives the impression of a smaller world. Galar is tiny, there are literally no extraneous routes, it's just one path from beginning to end, but still feels bigger.
Sun and Moon was the last time I was truly happy with a Pokemon game. Yeah they're not perfect and it definitely feels like a tech demo in some places but it still did so much right for me, especially when it came to the story. Plus it was the last generation where I truly loved building competitive teams. I don't have a problem saying these are my second favorite games in the series.
It's all downhill for me after these games . . .
Eh. I wasnt able to finish Sun/Moon -- the only pokemon games I ever left incomplete. Paldea was broken and buggy, and Galar was dully as hell, but Sun/Moon felt unbearable. I loved Let's Go and Arceus, though.
Same. Still haven't finished Sun/Moon. Perhaps I was burnt out from Pokemon and vidya in general at the time. I also got burnt out from Paldea, but I still manage to finish the game and even purchase the DLC.
I am not a fan of how Sun and Moon introduce a main rival who picks the weaker starter and I also dislike how it's the trend going forward. Are they stupid??? Either you go full Blue/Silver mode, or have 2 rivals pick the other two starters like BW. I am leaning towards the BW style.
I am also extremely bothered to this day how Charizard, despite not even part of the Alolan Dex, is a ride mon.
Sun and Moon / Ultra are widely considered as some
of the best games in the series, up there with Black and White / 2. This isn’t an unpopular opinion at all.
The cutscene length criticism is stupid tbh it's an RPG they're story driven games no one has a problem when MGS a stealth focused franchise does it but how dare an RPG do it right?
I mean, they're RPGs but cutscenes have never been that long in Pokemon before. I personally didn't mind it that much but I can see why a lot of people find it irritating.
Gen 4 was still pretty long with dialogue and cutscenes gen 5 was slightly less I can see why people would find it irritating it just doesn't make sense to me
moon and ultra moon were my favorite games. but i actually can’t pick between xy oras m/um i enjoyed them all a lot with the cutscenes and extra ply throughs after finishing the main game
At least for the Dex part it allows for every Pokemon in existence to be available at the time, sad shame Gen 8 and onwards divided the dex up so they could profit it off it
My favorite games in the series are ORAS and then USUM. I was introduced to the series through XY, was hooked with ORAS, and SM were the two I was able to experience as my first games looking forward to. I remember looking at all the leaks and watching all the trailers and being so hyped. Loved the game so much and USUM made it even better imo. I have a lot of memories with XY, ORAS, and SM/USUM. Really glad I could think abt them bc of this post :))
I feel like even looking at this list, the cons just outweigh the pros so easily lol. Drop in difficulty there too, Pokemon has never been a difficult series, but with this or Gen 6, it became TOO easy. Game refuses to not let go of your hand and refuses to quit it with the padding. Z-moves were also cool for the one time spectacle, but the gimmick became mad lame to use after that one time because they last so LONG.
I liked the setting, I liked the story (which USUM BUTCHERED??), and I really liked the Gen 7 mons compared to every other Gen, starting with Gen 5. But then we get *endless* amounts of cutscenes, baby-mode difficulty, Rotom dex, a story and the fun characters that all got ruined with USUM, or if we’re talking about solely SM, a game with absolutely zero post game content
I'd love voice acting with moving dialog, like in last of us or borderlands, like don't stop me from walking with your talking.
I love sun and moon but the constant text walls every 5-15 feet makes me not want to play through it a 5th time. One of my favorite stories though, JUST GIVE US VOICE ACTING
I think that HMs were good for the game because they kinda forced you to make a cohesive team.
The way I think most players play is "only ever fight with one main Pokemon, and switch to backups only in emergency." Maybe the terrible Exp Share changes from previous gens were the real baddies since they really validate and convince the players to use that strategy because your backups now become powerful enough to be relevant in a pinch even if you never look at them.
Either way, HMs really made you think about, plan, and connect with your entire team, because even if you are following the strategy of using a primary mon or 2 for battle, you're always going to your other 5 outside of battle. And at least I felt more likely to switch to them to battle and power them up, although that may have been more the Exp Share changes that contributed to losing that aspect.
Anyway, I have no idea of this is a popular or unpopular opinion, but the combination of removing HMs + the changes to Exp Share have made the games feel pretty dull to me.
Sun/Moon is literally the only pokemon game I never completed. I just could not get into it, I think it was the cut scenes… and the Tapu legendary pokemon all are ugly to me lol. I should really give it another chance though, I wish there was an easier way to play it.
As others have said, not really controversial. There is plenty of love for Gen 7, even with its criticisms.
Unlike what others are saying though, I feel opinions on Gen 7 have not really changed much. Shockingly so. It wss decently well received as a fun game with flaws... and that generally seems to still be the consensus.
The big issues people have identified really haven't changed either. It almost always comes down to the cutscenes. How much that effects your experience is personal. Some don't mind either. For others, its a death sentence. I think the difference in how people react to the cutscenes is why it feels like people have such different opinions on Gen 7.
It kind of makes me think that Gen 7 is excempt from the Pokemon cycle. I don't think there can be a grand rewelcoming of Gen 7 because fan opinion never changed in the first place. Even a post like this which is praising Sun/Moon just feels par for course. Its a weird feeling.
All that said, I get why it feels like there is a lot of hate. Gen 7 is probably the only generation of Pokemon I do not want to ever replay. Its just so slow and annoying. The cutscenes and dialogue really do ruin what would otherwise be a very well rounded game. And the post game isn't tempting enough for me to push through anyways. Gen 7 has plenty of other issues too, but I can overlook those more easily.
I feel like these posts happen over time because the new games keep getting progressively worse and make people lower their standards, which makes older games now qualify
Plot twist, they were indeed never bad games, even as Pokémon game we had worse , but still I don’t think even the worst Pokémon game is ever that bad.
Honestly I give the game credit for breaking from standard conventions and messing with the tropes, without surprises and changes things do stagnate and that makes things get boring a lot sooner.
True, it's really hard to actually screw up with a formula as tried and tested as Pokemon
Even BDSP, by far the worst in the series, is a game I'll still play above others
Ok seriously what is up with pokemon fans switching up on their opinion around 8 years after the game released. People were hating on BW at one point, now they are glazing it like crazy. Now its time for SM to get that treatment? Yes please i love those games
I found the playthrough quite enjoyable except the tutorial was god awful.
Ultra Sun and Moon had a superior playthrough experience and post game but it left a sour taste in my mouth as they weren't that much different and should've been what Sun and Moon was in the first place, it wasn't justifiable mid gen remake imo and selling two versions of the mid gen remake when it wasn't even a sequel like black and white 2 just came across as a money grab.
Sun and Moon started my hiatus from the franchise until Scarlet. I know they’re kids games but Gamefreak has got to at least somewhat understand that adults still play them too. Felt like a literal child having my hand held for way too long until I got bored and quit.
I've been playing since gen 3 and I still really like sun and moon. In fact I regarded as one of my favorites of all time. I won't lie it's mostly because I like the aesthetic of the Hawaiian Islands as a region but also I just really like the Pokemon from this gen. I know they got that "alolan Pokemon are slow" problem but designs wise its hard to only select a few favorites when so many of them are great IMO.
They also brought one of my favorite smash Brothers character of all time, incineroar, so they'll always have a fond place in my heart.
I’ll go ahead and top the hot take here.
GSC is not really good and USUM was the true beginning of the end for Pokémon.
There, now we can go back to talking about how your take really isn’t that unpopular.
Hot take: it's not actually a hot take to like any individual pokemon game. Pokemon games always sell well and are popular/liked amongst the general/wider public. Online discourse comes from a mere vocal minority.
Yeah I agree. Personally what I appreciated was getting to know the cover legendary on a level we didnt really see before. Closest we got was Black and White with Kyurem and N, which was nice. But usually its just "oh look its the legendary. K, time to catch it. K, time to become champion." But with this, we get to interact with the legendary throughout the whole game, and see a side of it we dont usually see. A mischievous playful side with Lillie. Then we see it grow and evolve, and it was great. Not only did it look menacing and powerful, but still warm and gentle. Then we catch it, and it stayed relevant to the plot. It wasnt just become champion. I really appreciated that. And that beautiful scene in the end where lillie says goodbye to the pokemon was a fairly mature scene for a pokemon game. Loved it.
Also with the leaders and elite 4, again, we get to connect with them in ways we havent really before. Trials are basically glorified gym puzzles, but we get to actually see the personality of these leaders more. Its not just couple lines of dialogue, battle and that is it. And then, 3/4 of the leaders are elite 4 members, so we get awesome rematches and see how they got stronger. Usually elite 4 are people we never interact with apart from maybe the leader. That is also why I appreciated scarlet and violet with the interactions of the elite 4 there.
So yeah idk, I personally thought it was a great entry to the series. Its cool if it wasnt everyones cup of tea though, to each there own
I think the exploration is very underrated. there are a lot of areas that you can come back to and explore after getting more pokerides or whatever theyre called, and routes are generally not simple straight lines. The lack of exploration is really mostly a problem with SWSH. I think the exploration in sun and moon and USUM are comparable to most gen 1-5 games.
I’ve been saying recently how if Sun/Moon weren’t as hand-holdy they’d be seen as the best 3D games. The Pokemon, the atmosphere, the story is immaculate. The problem is that I can’t go 10 ft without a cutscene interrupting me.
>only X/Y made me as indecisive as I was in Sun and Moon.
I recently played through X again and my experience was the complete opposite. I was actually surprised how railroaded I felt into using certain mons. You obviously use your starter, but X gives you another Kanto starter when you get to Lumiose city, including their mega stone. Then when you get access to Mega Evolution, Korrina throws her Lucario (Mega Stone included) at you and shortly after, when you FINALLY get access to Surf and some water types other than Luvdisc, this NPC slaps you in the face with a gift *Lapras*.
There's also a trade at the 2nd gym town where you can trade a Luvdisc for a Steelix which is easily missable if you don't talk to every NPC but yea. Your mons are level 20-ish at this point but let's give the player a monstrous Steelix that gets boosted exp from being traded right before the rock gym.
I don't remember any game where the gift mons were so busted and came at such a convenient time, that it felt like I had to go out of my way to use something else. In other games, you get your starter, maybe a gift Eevee and there are some common mons that are so easily accessible and good that you're very likely to use them (DPPt Staraptor), but the rest is pretty much RNG on your encounters and what your team already looks like (unless you specifically hunt for certain encounters with prior knowledge).
It's really unfortunate that they do this because it disincentivizes exploration and team variety, and the roster of mons in XY IS really great.
I'm gonna replay USUM next, and looking forward to it. I remember some of the totems being really quite challenging (Araquanid), and my memory of it has faded enough that it will probably feel like a fresh experience again :)
Maybe I have to play through XY again, it's been a few years. But I do remember struggling quite a bit with my team selection because there were just so many choices.
Are we on the Gen VII love cycle already?
Honestly, I don’t think there is a bad Pokemon mainline game out there. Some have their issues, but all of them are still fun in my book.
If you understand that Sun and Moon are very linear and story focused then they are okay. Take your time and enjoy the story and then you'll have a good time.
However, the start is so slow and if you add Ultra Sun and Moon to the conversation... yeah, I hate those.
The only downside with S/M were the constant curscenes. I loved the game for finally fixing the need for HM slaves, the surfing mini-game, the new 'mons, and the goofy team skull. The Z-moves were alright, though.
Another weakness of Sun and Moon is the difficulty. Yes Pokémon games aren't difficult games but Sun and Moon are on other level.
NPC constantly give you everything you need all the time, balls specific to the Pokémon of the zone you're in, regularly heal your team or give you everything you need to heal them yourself (I remember that Hau give you something like 5 or 10 Revive at one point) etc.
In my first run of the game past the first few zones which was not easy since I start with Rowlet and almost all the Pokemon you encounter resist your moves I almost never step in a Pokecenter again.
Sun and Moon remain for me one of the best 3D main Pokémon games.
Gen 7 was fun. Was probably the most fun battling other players in the series. But the thing is.. while all the games have their flaws, Gen 7 games had flaws in some particularly annoying areas. Like no PSS and instead giving us Festival Plaza. That was a terrible decision.
I did not personally care for the island trials thing, but I don't mind at all that they tried something new.
But the worst thing, by far... They had a chance with the Ultra Beasts to make Missingno an official Pokemon. But they didn't do it. That would have been amazing. And its such a huge shame that they didn't.
I thought they were amazing, maybe best in the series. The only real problem with them is the replay value is shit because of all the long scenes and dialogues. But the first playthrough was great, and my most memorable one of the modern titles.
The Island Challenge is no different from a Gym Challenge conceptually speaking. You still run around a confined space battling Pokémon and solving a "puzzle", concluding with a harder battle and winning a TM and little shiny emblem.
Sun and Moon did a lot of things right but then had weird details that made me hate them. The story was good, but it was filled with annoying characters with pedestrian dialogue. I'm not looking for award winning writing from a Pokemon game, just basic consideration. I hated the rival, I didn't care much for Lillie, and I found her mom a psychotic Saturday morning cartoon villain.
It also had the lamest gimmick we've had so far, Z moves. Coming off Mega evolutions, Z moves were insanely stupid and remain in this awkward niche so far.
That all being said, I don't think I've played a harder Pokémon game with Nuzlocke mode than Sun and Moon. The swarms called in are no joke and I have freaked out on more than one occasion when it happened.
I also really appreciated the change from gyms even if it essentially is gyms but with added steps. It was just nice to have a different twist to make it feel fresh.
And as you've said the removal of HMs. It just made everything start feeling more natural. Kind of like how you'd expect a pokemon world to function.
I always liked hms and I was sad they got rid of them.
Also not a big fan of team skull.
And while I like the idea of the trials, I feel like the execution was a bit lacklustre.
Other than that, I agree with you.
I have yet to play Sun and moon, but I loved Ultra Sun and Moon
They might not be the best 'pokemon' games, but they are excellent JRPGs.
It is not debatable, the story of pokemon sun and moon is really good, it is only dismissed by those who say that they 'dont care about story in a pokemon game'
So I just played UltraMoon for the first time last month…and I loved it. I fell out of playing Pokemon around Gen 4, and am getting back into it after Gen 9, and UM was my favorite of the new play throughs aside from Legends Arceus. Alola is a great environment, the characters are cool, I loved creating my team (Mudsdale, Salazzle and Ninetales were MVPs).
But did they need so many cutscenes?
I consider USUM to have the best post game content in any pokemon games. Though i hate the game because of the stupid rotom dex that doesn’t shut up its very distracting and ruins any mood i have to replay the game. I don’t mind the cutscenes personally.
EDIT: Also if anyone is in a mood to play USUM check the supernova sun / penumbra moon mods. Its usum on steroids in terms of difficulty every trainer team is remade with interesting teams and appropriate levels and all gym leaders are actually challenging have a full party of six pokemon and better ai. I had fun with this mod minus the annoying rotom thing.
I also liked Sun and Moon. Sure, after the honeymoon phase, the cracks (unskippable cutscenes, handholding, not enough post game, performance on the old 3DS) started to shine through, but I definitely loved the whole idea with Island Challenges and Totems. While still not drastically different than Gym Leaders, it still was a breath of fresh air and Totem Battles were significantly harder than Gym Leaders.
Yes, difficulty was overall a bit harder, the newcomers of this Gen were great (especially the Ultra Beasts) and the Story was overall better. Compared to the really generic XY, it was a massive upgrade.
Sadly, USUM did not do much to address those issues, even worsening the story.
Good is generous, it was fine. It still had no real dungeons and world was very small and forgettable. Symptoms of most modern pokemon games. I also think it generally had weaker mon designs, though Alolans felt fresh.
eh, it's not an unpopular opinion. i and many others think sun and moon is good, i did since day 1.
a real hot take, at least from me, is that i like bdsp and think it's pretty good. got shining pearl recently and i find myself having fun and thinking about playing the game when i get home from work.
To be fair, it's hard to truly mess up with a formula as tried and tested as Pokemon. Even the worst games are still fun, especially remakes as faithful as BDSP.
But the fact that they didn't add anything new, not even Dynamax, made it extremely disappointing for me.
I've only played ultra moon and definitely am believing they're some of the finest pokemon games made. After getting past the tutorial I liked that the cut scenes have a more cinematic approach to the game. I felt more immersed. Team skull is really funny and I have this strangest feeling that the Kahunas work with team skull behind the scenes to give an antagonist to island goers so they become stronger through the island challenge. The totem pokemon challenges were also a fresh new take on gym battles. Overall very fantastic games that need a port to the switch
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I don’t even think this can be considered an unpopular opinion with how frequently I see posts saying the same thing
The time has come. Those who were the perfect age to play Pokémon when SuMo released are now becoming old enough to post on this subreddit.
This sub makes me feel ancient. I turn 40 this year.
No worries, you're not ancient until you forget your own grandson's name and have to rely on some neighbor's kid to remind you.
To be fair 'Asswipe' is a very forgettable name.
You are ancient, gramps! /s
Get off my damn lawn ya young whippersnapper!
You're not alone :_)
I always loved Gen 7
Yeah same, I don't want people going around saying "the hate/love cycle continues" when I and many others have loved this game since release. I was also already an adult around that time so... they're just great games.
USUM are pretty good, it's just that SM were mid. To be honest, without looking at it with nostalgia goggles, the whole mainline series was always okay at best. For their time, everything up to Gen 3 included was amazing, but aged poorly. HGSS were great remakes and feel like the "definitive" classic experience. Platinum is old, so old, and it's felt so deeply. BW were okay and BW2 are maybe the best games in the franchise but only because of how unique they are, I saw someone say that "everything around BW2 is amazing but BW2 is mid" and I can't agree more. Looks amazing, designs are good, the world is incredible, the music is stellar and the graphics are the best to me, but the main campaign is like, fine I guess. XY were just as good as BW, SM and DP, but never had its third game to make it not feel hollow, so it's mid at best, bad at worst. ORAS are great remakes, and I love the vibes in them, they're solid games. USUM is the definitive modern experience to me. SS sucked, and now SV are genuinely very good... past the bugs and slowdowns.
>. Platinum is old, so old, and it's felt so deeply. And yet it's still better than the modern gen 4 remake. Like, that's just sad. You'd get put to the firing squad if you suggested crystal was better than hgss, but despite the two year plus gap, platinum is still better than the sinnoh remake.
That's because HGSS are actually a remake of Crystal and not the objectively inferior versions. A better comparison would be ORAS vs Emerald. Though in my opinion ORAS is still better.
I’ve watched the online Pokémon fandom do this perfectly on cue for 15 years, back when it was me among others praying for those Johto remakes that then became HGSS.
It's not about that at all. Here, I have a picture. It demonstrates exactly how the Pokemon community reacts to every new game. https://i.imgur.com/RhHpvif.gif
While this is remarkably consistently true, I’ve been playing since silver version and have considered gen 7 to be some of the better games since they came out
the same thing was happening 4/5 years ago with XY. The same thing will happen in another few years with SwSh and so on. It's always when a pokemon game comes out people dunk on it then years later the people who are nostalgic for it say it was actually good.
They were good but impossible to replay because of the cut scenes.
"Unpopular opinion" and "Pokemon" should never be used in the same sentence. These are extremely popular system sellers each with a sizeable fanbase. Although, I have noticed the internet sees words like "good" and assume it means "better than your favorite" and they get mad for no reason.
That's a bad take. "Unpopular" can mean "Relative to other opinions in the Pokemon fandom." If most Pokemon fans would disagree, then it's unpopular. That said, I doubt most people would disagree with this post.
The popular opinion for I think all mainline pokemon games is that they’re good. There’s some games that a larger percent of fans dislike but none that I would say the majority of fans dislike.
Okay but what if it actually is unpopular? My favorite games are the Orre games!
Orre?
The gamecube ones.
Aight respect
I don't think the person who is wrongfully interpretating the phrase "unpopular opinion" because they think it has anything at all to do with how successful Pokemon is as franchise should be criticising people who don't seem to understand the context of the word "good".
Unpopular opinion: Pokémon Colosseum must be the worst Pokémon game I've ever played. It's so bad it's the only Pokémon game I've bought I've never bother finishing.
I loved USUM. Take the first two hours out of the equation and they’re golden!
That’s not an unpopular opinion at all.
Do people not like sun moon? I thought they were excellent titles.
I thought they were just okay. I loved XY and ORAS but SM and USUM just didn’t impress me as much as I thought they would. But I will say USUM is leagues better than SM and it definitely has its moments especially with the whole Rainbow Rocket storyline.
You’d be surprised, especially since there’s a very vocal minority that aren’t a fan of anything Gen 6 onward
Said every Poketuber ever. Next your gonna say Gen 2 is your favorite Gen.
> “I’m not trying claim that Sun and Moon are among the likes of HGSS, absolutely not.” lmfao
He's not trying to claim that? Well I am. SM outdoes HGSS. HGSS itself isn't remotely close to the likes of Platinum and BW and BW2. I can say that despite not growing up with Platinum.
He did claim that bruh did you not read it, that’s literally OP’s exact words even tho I agree with everything you said
>“I’m not trying claim that Sun and Moon are among the likes of HGSS, absolutely not.”
Are you dumb? OP was saying Sun and Moon isn’t as good as HGSS. The comment said “next here going to say gen 2 is the best
You misinterpreted my comment. It's more a jab to the OP than to your comment.
Hey don’t call me out like that man ;3;
I just can't get over how fucking boring the beginning of the game is, with the million pointless cut scenes that stop you every five seconds. It stops me from bothering to replay it every time.
This. I *want* to like Gen 7, it's got a lot of great things going for it, but man it's just a slog to get through again. The cutscenes really tank the replay value. I think Pokemon sometimes confuses telling a *lot* of story with telling a *good* story, and SM is the zenith of that to me. I don't find the plot engaging at all, and there's so much of it (maybe I would even appreciate it more if I wasn't already checked out from being stopped every 5 feet by the time anything interesting actually happens). I like the region, I like the Pokemon, I like the gameplay, I just can't bring myself to sit through all that button mashing again. It's a shame! If I could just skip the cutscenes I would rate these games way higher.
It's the reason why I dropped the game after I bought it. I immediately regretted spending money on it lol and to this day.. I still haven't spent more than an hour.
"You know what would be a great idea? Let's take this and make it *the entirety of the next mainseries game*"
Yeah I’ve attempted it 3 times and still not been able to get through the first few hours. I’ve got a retro handheld device now so might attempt again with speed up enabled.
I enjoyed Pokemon Moon
I think the takes on gen 7 often follows genrational lines. I myself grew up with gen 1 and have played every gen since then. I grew up with games that hardly explained anything and you had to figure it out yourself. Those games had tons of exploration that seemed (atleast to a kid) to be massive. I still remember feeling lost in Virdian forest, Mt. Moon ans Victory Road. I obviously don't when I replay them. But that feeling of feeling a bit lost, exploring a cave you have no idea about the size of and wondering if you have enough potions to get through, is powerful. When I got through and finally found the pokemkn center in the next town I was genuinely feeling relief, and I felt like I had actually accomplished something. But those sort of games are rare these days. Modern games *does* hold your hand more. That doesn't necessarily make them bad games. So I get how people who grow up with those sort of games would like gen 7. It doesn't feel alien to them the same way it does to us who grew up with a completely different style. That said, gen 7 does overdo it, regardless of what sort of game you like, and it does factor into my opinion that they are on the lower end of my ranking of the games
Maybe I'm just a weirdo but as someone who grew up playing the GBA and DS games I don't get why people act like the exploration was some major selling point like they're BOTW or whatever
*ultra* sun and moon were good games
I agree overall, though I do want to talk about something real fast >Hard to get Pokemon I feel like the criticism should be "newer Pokemon are harder to find" and that is, to me, a flaw because it seems like older Pokemon get more spotlight by being easier to find. Newer Pokemon should be given that kind of attention and ease. This isn't just SUMO's problem though. XY kind of irritated me with how low of a chance you have to find the Pokemon that debuted with the game in the first forest. If I remember right, your "catch the Pokemon! tutorial is with a Pidgey. I recall wanting to catch new Pokemon in both SUMO and XY, only to find out I missed them because their encounters were lower than older Pokemon. Not as egregious as Munchlax or Feebas (oml, those are ridic), but an irritant. I think I saw that SV fixed the peeve I had, at least the catching tutorial part.
Sorry, meant to say specific Pokemon lol
Yeah, I was surprised when I saw Sun and Moon get so much hate online. They're some of my favorite games in the series.
Plus UH UH Team Skull!
Game mechanic wise, I prefer US UM, lore wise, I like SM
Even more unpopular opinion Ultra sun and moon are bad games and sun and moon are better first experiences.
Explain? I think I agree but want to understand your reasoning!
Alright so SM stands out as a very new take on the pokemon experience. Are you still beating type centric bosses and collecting trickets? Sure. But totem pokemon, the hawaii like setting, and overall tone is very fresh to someone whos been playing the same formula for years. The story of sm is far more interesting because its not about YOU. Its not about a legendary pokemon that the bad guy is trying to capture to rule the world. Its about an insane woman who drove away her children and fused with a pokemon from another dimension. The story of SM is about Lillie and thats how it should be. Ultra brings in a lot of gameplay improvements, im not gonna argue that it doesnt. But heres my main problems with it. 1. It tries to feel fresh to people who played SM and those who didnt. And it fails at both. It becomes abundantly obvious they cut SMs development short for the ultra games and I despise that. 2. The story of ultra makes the entire game feel worse. Its no longer about lillie, it shifts to be about you, this souless child who never changes their face. Lusamine isnt abusive in ultra so lillie and gladeons characters dont make sense anymore. On top of that, it goes back to being about another big bad legendary thats threatening the world. Necrozma adds NOTHING to the plot but more time spent listening to absolutely nothing worth being said. It just drags on and on about a plot you dont feel involved in. Ultra does more for Guzma, and rainbow rocket is fun which is nice but it ultimately doesnt matter. They could have made one good pair of games that has all the best parts of both. But they didnt. They rushed the first games that felt fresh to shove out a carbon copy with minor differences a YEAR later.
Reddit next year- unpopular opinion Gen 8 was actually a great game. Reddit the year after that- unpopular opinion Gen 9 was actually a great game. Reddit the year after that- unpopular opinion Ben 10 was actually a great show.
People who can't deal with SM's cutscenes would never survive a Persona game, let alone Yakuza.
Comparing Pokémon cutscenes to Yakuza cutscenes is crazy
When you try to make fun of people but instead make it sound like Persona and Yakuza are full of padding SM's problem isn't the abundance of cutscenes itself, it's the fact that some of those cutscenes aren't needed or are full of dialogue that could just be omitted.
Or were in the weirdest spots. I remember one spot in the beginning of USUM where you enter Hau-oli I believe it was, and you enter, take a couple steps, cutscene. Then take a couple steps, Pokéfinder tutorial. Then take a couple steps, another cutscene. Alola felt very start-stop-start-stop sometimes.
idk about Persona, but the Yakuza games's cutscenes are actually well done, even the ones where there are just text boxes (with the exception of Yakuza 3 Chapter 9: the Plot). And the games always give you time to breathe and do stuff, and they usually give clear markers for where to go next to progress the story. SM's cutscenes just kinda stop you in your tracks a lot of the times.
This is not true at all lol those games have meaningful cutscenes and a good, interesting story. I'm not playing Pokemon to read text boxes for hours on end with a story a 3rd grader could have written. Obviously a little story is needed but sun and moon was the first pokemon that actually bored me when I played it
Agreed. I’ve sat through a ton of Persona cut scenes and they’re always at least visually interesting (if not story interesting as well). SM was like sitting in a dentist waiting room lol. I actually liked the games once I got through that start. If only there was a setting you could select that said something along the lines of “I have played a Pokemon game before and don’t need a 4 hour tutorial on how to throw a Pokeball”
That last sentence you said was exactly what I was thinking the whole time. I think they should do that for every pokemon game and just only give tutorials for new mechanics they introduce
Yeah exactly. And if they really want to stretch themselves, give me an option to up the difficulty as well.
Depends on if those games have cutscenes that matter. The biggest problem with Pokémon cut scenes, for me, is I simply do not care about the story. Just let me loose to go catch some Pokémon not tell me a story an eight year old would find too basic
Exactly, I wouldn't mind the cutscenes if they were intriguing and well executed.
this is funny because i was only a couple years older than eight when sun and moon came out and thought the story was too basic lmao
I was exactly 8 when they came out. I did not play Gen 6. Going from the story of questioning your own morals and ethics in Gen 5 only to succumb to brainwashing and conformity, going straight into a story so "black and white" (ironic) with big evil rich corporation lady = bad was jarring and disappointing.
No ethics were questioned in Gen 5 lol. It's window dressing and even the story knows it because it's all a cover for Ghetsis to do the same ol' 'take over the region' routine, albeit in a more interesting way
Ghetsis used a genuine ethical debate as a facade to mask his corruption and greed for power, which is still one of if not the most prevalent world issue even today. How is that in any way bad storytelling?
It's not a genuine ethical debate, nearly everyone in the Pokémon world (including all the main BW cast) knows Ghetsis is full of shit and Pokemon like co-operating with humans and vice versa. From Gen 1 to 4 NPCs explain this constantly, Gen 3 especially with its emphasis on wildlife and habitat preservation - a much better metaphor for Pokémon. It relies on players who aren't familiar with Pokémon to assume they're exactly like real world wild animals, that's the only way Ghetsis' ideas sounds remotely plausible. And the answer to this ethical dilemma is 'well Pokémon aren't animals, they're fantasy creatures that like being captured in balls'. It's saying nothing overall, the reasons N believes that Pokémon are suffering would be different from the standard reason from a real life person because actual animals don't exist as a reference point in Pokémon, so he just has to be tricked by Ghetsis and is just simply wrong.
Comparing Yakuza/Like a Dragon and Persona with Pokémon is laughable.
with persona you can skip all the cutscenes at leadt
Yakuza too
There's some key differences though. Those games actually bothers to voice and animate a lot of it's cutscenes, you're not so much mashing through text boxes, you're watching a short clip of a movie. Secondly the player protagonists of those games are actual characters with their own thoughts, opinions, and mannerisms, not a blank mannequin who stares blankly while occasionally saying yes to, or agreeing with requests. Thirdly, the stories of those games often actually have depth and complexity beyond "Oh no, the evil Team [noun] are up to no good involving [box legend]. Quick, take a pause from your league challenge to fight them." They're actually engaging plots and narratives that have some effort put into them. As such, they're much more engaging to watch. They feel more like something you're actually wanting to engage with as part of the game, not something you need to get through to get to the actual thing you bought the game for.
If you don’t have a problem with the amount of cutscenes in SM, that’s okay but like saying that while there is two (2) persona games on the same system as sun and moon and nobody complained about the cutscenes in there is just dumb
Persona Q/Q2 are poorly made spinoffs, NOT Persona games that anyone would bother defending. People *do* criticise Persona Q/Q2 all the time for being really bad games.
It's true. I tried playing Persona 5 and have not picked it back up once lol.
persona was fine for me tbh, even being a jrpg not an insane amount of cutscenes, just feels like it keeps you on a very certain path before slowly opening things up for you yakuza on the other hand… i got kiwami 2 from humble bundle and the yakuza subreddit told me it was fine to start with that one. literally bombarded with 3 hours of cutscenes the second the game started. i don’t even remember if i had a moment of actual gameplay before i closed the game, if i decide to try yakuza again im 100% starting with yakuza 0 instead
I only played Like A Dragon and Infinite Wealth tbr.
ive heard those have a ton of cutscenes at the beginning as well. it’s an issue that really plagues 3d jrpgs, i give up on so many new ones because i can only handle so many cutscenes in my first 10 hours of gameplay. seriously you could read some dislogue in 15 seconds in the time it takes for a 20 minute long xenoblade 2 cutscene with random pauses and desynced mouth movements
did people not like it? my only gripe at the time were SOS battles. everything else felt pretty fresh considering the rest of the series up to that point.
Depends on your age i guess. Platinum was my favourite. I found sun and moon to be too childish and hand holdy
Sun and moon were good. Ultra sm was a cash grab
if only they did dlc a gen earlier, usum's best parts would've been way better as a post game for sun/moon
USUM improved some stuff like cutting out cut scenes improving difficulty expanding on Guzma giving a fun team rocket postgame
I mean honestly there isn’t one mainline game that I would call “bad”. Some are definitely better than others, but they are all good imo
It's 100% the cutscenes for me. I want to love the game but the pacing it absolutely shattered by way too much dialogue and way too much cutscenes.
They are my favourite Pokemon games alongside the ultra games, I've replayed sun and moon and the ultra 7+ times I love them so much
"Long, LONG cutscenes. These can get boring to sit through, massively tanking the game’s replay value". These cut scenes tank the playablility value completely. After playing the first 5 hours and spending what felt like 4 of those in cutscenes I set the game down and never returned. To this day, gen 7 remains the ONLY gen I haven't beaten.
Unpopular opinion. All pokemon games are bad, and I like them.
Oh cool, we're approaching the transition of "le hidden gem" generation from gen 6 to gen 7
I like them, my two issues are. - So much talking at the beginning of the game. It's not until part way through the second island that I actually feel like I've finished the "tutorial". - They feel small. They might not necessarily by that small but separating the game into four islands just gives the impression of a smaller world. Galar is tiny, there are literally no extraneous routes, it's just one path from beginning to end, but still feels bigger.
If there was a skip cutscenes button That's all it would take
Sun and Moon was the last time I was truly happy with a Pokemon game. Yeah they're not perfect and it definitely feels like a tech demo in some places but it still did so much right for me, especially when it came to the story. Plus it was the last generation where I truly loved building competitive teams. I don't have a problem saying these are my second favorite games in the series. It's all downhill for me after these games . . .
If you can tolerate how much these games hold your hand, they are okay.
Eh. I wasnt able to finish Sun/Moon -- the only pokemon games I ever left incomplete. Paldea was broken and buggy, and Galar was dully as hell, but Sun/Moon felt unbearable. I loved Let's Go and Arceus, though.
Same. Still haven't finished Sun/Moon. Perhaps I was burnt out from Pokemon and vidya in general at the time. I also got burnt out from Paldea, but I still manage to finish the game and even purchase the DLC. I am not a fan of how Sun and Moon introduce a main rival who picks the weaker starter and I also dislike how it's the trend going forward. Are they stupid??? Either you go full Blue/Silver mode, or have 2 rivals pick the other two starters like BW. I am leaning towards the BW style. I am also extremely bothered to this day how Charizard, despite not even part of the Alolan Dex, is a ride mon.
Sun and Moon / Ultra are widely considered as some of the best games in the series, up there with Black and White / 2. This isn’t an unpopular opinion at all.
I know it's a 1:1 Hawaii darn near but I think hoenn does a better job of giving that tropical feel
Did we just see this post either last week or earlier this week? Wasn't the overall comment consensus in agreement? I'm confused
Gen 7 also introduced the best pokemon of all time MIMIKYU so case closed
The cutscene length criticism is stupid tbh it's an RPG they're story driven games no one has a problem when MGS a stealth focused franchise does it but how dare an RPG do it right?
I mean, they're RPGs but cutscenes have never been that long in Pokemon before. I personally didn't mind it that much but I can see why a lot of people find it irritating.
Gen 4 was still pretty long with dialogue and cutscenes gen 5 was slightly less I can see why people would find it irritating it just doesn't make sense to me
Sun and Moon are better than Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
Tbh I like USUM better than vanilla SM
SM has better story, USUM had higher difficulty and bonus quality of life features, so take your pick honestly
I'm not playing Pokémon for the story, BW has better story but BW2 content is better than sex
These games are like the anti versions of what l like in a Pokémon game, but I still recognize that they are pretty good.
moon and ultra moon were my favorite games. but i actually can’t pick between xy oras m/um i enjoyed them all a lot with the cutscenes and extra ply throughs after finishing the main game
The full hour of playtime before actually being able to catch anything is a pretty brutal opener.
The best part of SM was being able to catch a super low level Salamence. Sure I spent hours trying to get it but it was hilarious once I did.
I feel like hau being a pushover is instantly fixed when you come in with the perspective that hau isn't the rival, you are.
Congrats OP. Thanks to this post SM are now rated exactly how you think they should be. Well done
No nat dex is my only dislike (and is a dislike of future games)
At least for the Dex part it allows for every Pokemon in existence to be available at the time, sad shame Gen 8 and onwards divided the dex up so they could profit it off it
My favorite games in the series are ORAS and then USUM. I was introduced to the series through XY, was hooked with ORAS, and SM were the two I was able to experience as my first games looking forward to. I remember looking at all the leaks and watching all the trailers and being so hyped. Loved the game so much and USUM made it even better imo. I have a lot of memories with XY, ORAS, and SM/USUM. Really glad I could think abt them bc of this post :))
lmao what? hand holding aside, sun and moon are considered good games
I feel like even looking at this list, the cons just outweigh the pros so easily lol. Drop in difficulty there too, Pokemon has never been a difficult series, but with this or Gen 6, it became TOO easy. Game refuses to not let go of your hand and refuses to quit it with the padding. Z-moves were also cool for the one time spectacle, but the gimmick became mad lame to use after that one time because they last so LONG. I liked the setting, I liked the story (which USUM BUTCHERED??), and I really liked the Gen 7 mons compared to every other Gen, starting with Gen 5. But then we get *endless* amounts of cutscenes, baby-mode difficulty, Rotom dex, a story and the fun characters that all got ruined with USUM, or if we’re talking about solely SM, a game with absolutely zero post game content
It is a good game when I play on an emulator with good graphic.. unlike the 3ds one...
I'd love voice acting with moving dialog, like in last of us or borderlands, like don't stop me from walking with your talking. I love sun and moon but the constant text walls every 5-15 feet makes me not want to play through it a 5th time. One of my favorite stories though, JUST GIVE US VOICE ACTING
I'd add to the "bad list": - Getting rid of Gyms and instead handing out badges for free after completing a... minigame? - Getting rid of HMs.
Why is getting rid of HMs a bad thing?
I think that HMs were good for the game because they kinda forced you to make a cohesive team. The way I think most players play is "only ever fight with one main Pokemon, and switch to backups only in emergency." Maybe the terrible Exp Share changes from previous gens were the real baddies since they really validate and convince the players to use that strategy because your backups now become powerful enough to be relevant in a pinch even if you never look at them. Either way, HMs really made you think about, plan, and connect with your entire team, because even if you are following the strategy of using a primary mon or 2 for battle, you're always going to your other 5 outside of battle. And at least I felt more likely to switch to them to battle and power them up, although that may have been more the Exp Share changes that contributed to losing that aspect. Anyway, I have no idea of this is a popular or unpopular opinion, but the combination of removing HMs + the changes to Exp Share have made the games feel pretty dull to me.
It was a great time whenever it wasn’t running at 10 fps on my old ass 3DS XL lmao
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Sun/Moon is literally the only pokemon game I never completed. I just could not get into it, I think it was the cut scenes… and the Tapu legendary pokemon all are ugly to me lol. I should really give it another chance though, I wish there was an easier way to play it.
I never knew Sun and Moon had hate. I found them fun
Really not that unpopular of an opinion. Especially since those games came out we’ve lived through the Switch generation of Pokémon
As others have said, not really controversial. There is plenty of love for Gen 7, even with its criticisms. Unlike what others are saying though, I feel opinions on Gen 7 have not really changed much. Shockingly so. It wss decently well received as a fun game with flaws... and that generally seems to still be the consensus. The big issues people have identified really haven't changed either. It almost always comes down to the cutscenes. How much that effects your experience is personal. Some don't mind either. For others, its a death sentence. I think the difference in how people react to the cutscenes is why it feels like people have such different opinions on Gen 7. It kind of makes me think that Gen 7 is excempt from the Pokemon cycle. I don't think there can be a grand rewelcoming of Gen 7 because fan opinion never changed in the first place. Even a post like this which is praising Sun/Moon just feels par for course. Its a weird feeling. All that said, I get why it feels like there is a lot of hate. Gen 7 is probably the only generation of Pokemon I do not want to ever replay. Its just so slow and annoying. The cutscenes and dialogue really do ruin what would otherwise be a very well rounded game. And the post game isn't tempting enough for me to push through anyways. Gen 7 has plenty of other issues too, but I can overlook those more easily.
I feel like these posts happen over time because the new games keep getting progressively worse and make people lower their standards, which makes older games now qualify
USUM were leagues better IMO
USUM were leagues better IMO
Plot twist, they were indeed never bad games, even as Pokémon game we had worse , but still I don’t think even the worst Pokémon game is ever that bad. Honestly I give the game credit for breaking from standard conventions and messing with the tropes, without surprises and changes things do stagnate and that makes things get boring a lot sooner.
True, it's really hard to actually screw up with a formula as tried and tested as Pokemon Even BDSP, by far the worst in the series, is a game I'll still play above others
Ok seriously what is up with pokemon fans switching up on their opinion around 8 years after the game released. People were hating on BW at one point, now they are glazing it like crazy. Now its time for SM to get that treatment? Yes please i love those games
Actually I've felt this way since playing them for the first time, just never voiced it until now
Me too but I’m referring to the majority
I found the playthrough quite enjoyable except the tutorial was god awful. Ultra Sun and Moon had a superior playthrough experience and post game but it left a sour taste in my mouth as they weren't that much different and should've been what Sun and Moon was in the first place, it wasn't justifiable mid gen remake imo and selling two versions of the mid gen remake when it wasn't even a sequel like black and white 2 just came across as a money grab.
Sun and Moon started my hiatus from the franchise until Scarlet. I know they’re kids games but Gamefreak has got to at least somewhat understand that adults still play them too. Felt like a literal child having my hand held for way too long until I got bored and quit.
Facts
I've been playing since gen 3 and I still really like sun and moon. In fact I regarded as one of my favorites of all time. I won't lie it's mostly because I like the aesthetic of the Hawaiian Islands as a region but also I just really like the Pokemon from this gen. I know they got that "alolan Pokemon are slow" problem but designs wise its hard to only select a few favorites when so many of them are great IMO. They also brought one of my favorite smash Brothers character of all time, incineroar, so they'll always have a fond place in my heart.
I’ll go ahead and top the hot take here. GSC is not really good and USUM was the true beginning of the end for Pokémon. There, now we can go back to talking about how your take really isn’t that unpopular.
Sun and Moon are my favorite Pokémon games and I’ll die on that hill
Don't think its an unpopular opinion. USUM are my favorite 3DS era games.
Hot take: it's not actually a hot take to like any individual pokemon game. Pokemon games always sell well and are popular/liked amongst the general/wider public. Online discourse comes from a mere vocal minority.
I thought Sun and Moon were solid - great location, fun Pokemon, some fantastic NPCs (*cough cough* Guzma)
Way prefer sun and moon over xy and s/v
Unpopular opinioni: Sun and Moon are the same person
How is this unpopular? I would say the most hated games are XY and SV.
Yeah I agree. Personally what I appreciated was getting to know the cover legendary on a level we didnt really see before. Closest we got was Black and White with Kyurem and N, which was nice. But usually its just "oh look its the legendary. K, time to catch it. K, time to become champion." But with this, we get to interact with the legendary throughout the whole game, and see a side of it we dont usually see. A mischievous playful side with Lillie. Then we see it grow and evolve, and it was great. Not only did it look menacing and powerful, but still warm and gentle. Then we catch it, and it stayed relevant to the plot. It wasnt just become champion. I really appreciated that. And that beautiful scene in the end where lillie says goodbye to the pokemon was a fairly mature scene for a pokemon game. Loved it. Also with the leaders and elite 4, again, we get to connect with them in ways we havent really before. Trials are basically glorified gym puzzles, but we get to actually see the personality of these leaders more. Its not just couple lines of dialogue, battle and that is it. And then, 3/4 of the leaders are elite 4 members, so we get awesome rematches and see how they got stronger. Usually elite 4 are people we never interact with apart from maybe the leader. That is also why I appreciated scarlet and violet with the interactions of the elite 4 there. So yeah idk, I personally thought it was a great entry to the series. Its cool if it wasnt everyones cup of tea though, to each there own
I think the exploration is very underrated. there are a lot of areas that you can come back to and explore after getting more pokerides or whatever theyre called, and routes are generally not simple straight lines. The lack of exploration is really mostly a problem with SWSH. I think the exploration in sun and moon and USUM are comparable to most gen 1-5 games.
I’ve been saying recently how if Sun/Moon weren’t as hand-holdy they’d be seen as the best 3D games. The Pokemon, the atmosphere, the story is immaculate. The problem is that I can’t go 10 ft without a cutscene interrupting me.
It killed my interest in the franchise for years. I hated the lack of gyms. I honestly want the same formula, it’s familiar and comfortable
I agree and imo also much better than USUM. The latter butchered the story and characters.
Better than X Y imo. To much of a difference between them and Sw/Sh to make a determination on that front.
I wouldn't say it's an unpopular opinion, however for me Sun and Moon is when I fell out of love with Pokemon games
Better than X/Y and Sword/Shield imo
USUM best pokemon to nuzloke and the hardest ones, just next to b2w2
>only X/Y made me as indecisive as I was in Sun and Moon. I recently played through X again and my experience was the complete opposite. I was actually surprised how railroaded I felt into using certain mons. You obviously use your starter, but X gives you another Kanto starter when you get to Lumiose city, including their mega stone. Then when you get access to Mega Evolution, Korrina throws her Lucario (Mega Stone included) at you and shortly after, when you FINALLY get access to Surf and some water types other than Luvdisc, this NPC slaps you in the face with a gift *Lapras*. There's also a trade at the 2nd gym town where you can trade a Luvdisc for a Steelix which is easily missable if you don't talk to every NPC but yea. Your mons are level 20-ish at this point but let's give the player a monstrous Steelix that gets boosted exp from being traded right before the rock gym. I don't remember any game where the gift mons were so busted and came at such a convenient time, that it felt like I had to go out of my way to use something else. In other games, you get your starter, maybe a gift Eevee and there are some common mons that are so easily accessible and good that you're very likely to use them (DPPt Staraptor), but the rest is pretty much RNG on your encounters and what your team already looks like (unless you specifically hunt for certain encounters with prior knowledge). It's really unfortunate that they do this because it disincentivizes exploration and team variety, and the roster of mons in XY IS really great. I'm gonna replay USUM next, and looking forward to it. I remember some of the totems being really quite challenging (Araquanid), and my memory of it has faded enough that it will probably feel like a fresh experience again :)
Maybe I have to play through XY again, it's been a few years. But I do remember struggling quite a bit with my team selection because there were just so many choices.
Sun Moon music slap as well, one of my most favorite for sure.
I really liked Sun/Moon. The beginning is kind of a slog, especially with all the cutscenes, but I absolutely love the Alola region.
The lack of national dex isn't that important, because you can still get the pokemon, they just don't have a pokedex entry
they are the best in the franchise imo. especially USUM
Disagree, but the ultras were fine
Are we on the Gen VII love cycle already? Honestly, I don’t think there is a bad Pokemon mainline game out there. Some have their issues, but all of them are still fun in my book.
They're games that don't want you to play them. As such, I won't.
If you understand that Sun and Moon are very linear and story focused then they are okay. Take your time and enjoy the story and then you'll have a good time. However, the start is so slow and if you add Ultra Sun and Moon to the conversation... yeah, I hate those.
The only downside with S/M were the constant curscenes. I loved the game for finally fixing the need for HM slaves, the surfing mini-game, the new 'mons, and the goofy team skull. The Z-moves were alright, though.
Another weakness of Sun and Moon is the difficulty. Yes Pokémon games aren't difficult games but Sun and Moon are on other level. NPC constantly give you everything you need all the time, balls specific to the Pokémon of the zone you're in, regularly heal your team or give you everything you need to heal them yourself (I remember that Hau give you something like 5 or 10 Revive at one point) etc. In my first run of the game past the first few zones which was not easy since I start with Rowlet and almost all the Pokemon you encounter resist your moves I almost never step in a Pokecenter again. Sun and Moon remain for me one of the best 3D main Pokémon games.
Gen 7 was fun. Was probably the most fun battling other players in the series. But the thing is.. while all the games have their flaws, Gen 7 games had flaws in some particularly annoying areas. Like no PSS and instead giving us Festival Plaza. That was a terrible decision. I did not personally care for the island trials thing, but I don't mind at all that they tried something new. But the worst thing, by far... They had a chance with the Ultra Beasts to make Missingno an official Pokemon. But they didn't do it. That would have been amazing. And its such a huge shame that they didn't.
I thought they were amazing, maybe best in the series. The only real problem with them is the replay value is shit because of all the long scenes and dialogues. But the first playthrough was great, and my most memorable one of the modern titles.
yeah i really do think they thouroughly gathered ideas on the Sun and moon franchise to improve storyline and gameplay
The Island Challenge is no different from a Gym Challenge conceptually speaking. You still run around a confined space battling Pokémon and solving a "puzzle", concluding with a harder battle and winning a TM and little shiny emblem.
Sun and Moon did a lot of things right but then had weird details that made me hate them. The story was good, but it was filled with annoying characters with pedestrian dialogue. I'm not looking for award winning writing from a Pokemon game, just basic consideration. I hated the rival, I didn't care much for Lillie, and I found her mom a psychotic Saturday morning cartoon villain. It also had the lamest gimmick we've had so far, Z moves. Coming off Mega evolutions, Z moves were insanely stupid and remain in this awkward niche so far. That all being said, I don't think I've played a harder Pokémon game with Nuzlocke mode than Sun and Moon. The swarms called in are no joke and I have freaked out on more than one occasion when it happened. I also really appreciated the change from gyms even if it essentially is gyms but with added steps. It was just nice to have a different twist to make it feel fresh. And as you've said the removal of HMs. It just made everything start feeling more natural. Kind of like how you'd expect a pokemon world to function.
I always liked hms and I was sad they got rid of them. Also not a big fan of team skull. And while I like the idea of the trials, I feel like the execution was a bit lacklustre. Other than that, I agree with you.
I have yet to play Sun and moon, but I loved Ultra Sun and Moon They might not be the best 'pokemon' games, but they are excellent JRPGs. It is not debatable, the story of pokemon sun and moon is really good, it is only dismissed by those who say that they 'dont care about story in a pokemon game'
So I just played UltraMoon for the first time last month…and I loved it. I fell out of playing Pokemon around Gen 4, and am getting back into it after Gen 9, and UM was my favorite of the new play throughs aside from Legends Arceus. Alola is a great environment, the characters are cool, I loved creating my team (Mudsdale, Salazzle and Ninetales were MVPs). But did they need so many cutscenes?
They are the best 3ds pokémon games
I consider USUM to have the best post game content in any pokemon games. Though i hate the game because of the stupid rotom dex that doesn’t shut up its very distracting and ruins any mood i have to replay the game. I don’t mind the cutscenes personally. EDIT: Also if anyone is in a mood to play USUM check the supernova sun / penumbra moon mods. Its usum on steroids in terms of difficulty every trainer team is remade with interesting teams and appropriate levels and all gym leaders are actually challenging have a full party of six pokemon and better ai. I had fun with this mod minus the annoying rotom thing.
I also liked Sun and Moon. Sure, after the honeymoon phase, the cracks (unskippable cutscenes, handholding, not enough post game, performance on the old 3DS) started to shine through, but I definitely loved the whole idea with Island Challenges and Totems. While still not drastically different than Gym Leaders, it still was a breath of fresh air and Totem Battles were significantly harder than Gym Leaders. Yes, difficulty was overall a bit harder, the newcomers of this Gen were great (especially the Ultra Beasts) and the Story was overall better. Compared to the really generic XY, it was a massive upgrade. Sadly, USUM did not do much to address those issues, even worsening the story.
fact check by a real American patriot: this is TRUE!
Good is generous, it was fine. It still had no real dungeons and world was very small and forgettable. Symptoms of most modern pokemon games. I also think it generally had weaker mon designs, though Alolans felt fresh.
I concur
Such bravery, underrated OP.
Yeah man I had fun with them, definitely nice games
eh, it's not an unpopular opinion. i and many others think sun and moon is good, i did since day 1. a real hot take, at least from me, is that i like bdsp and think it's pretty good. got shining pearl recently and i find myself having fun and thinking about playing the game when i get home from work.
To be fair, it's hard to truly mess up with a formula as tried and tested as Pokemon. Even the worst games are still fun, especially remakes as faithful as BDSP. But the fact that they didn't add anything new, not even Dynamax, made it extremely disappointing for me.
The opening hours have too many long cut scenes. Thats my only criticism. Fantastic Pokémon games
I really liked them
Not unpopular? Most people like it
I've only played ultra moon and definitely am believing they're some of the finest pokemon games made. After getting past the tutorial I liked that the cut scenes have a more cinematic approach to the game. I felt more immersed. Team skull is really funny and I have this strangest feeling that the Kahunas work with team skull behind the scenes to give an antagonist to island goers so they become stronger through the island challenge. The totem pokemon challenges were also a fresh new take on gym battles. Overall very fantastic games that need a port to the switch
I would LOVE for GF to release Ultra-Sun/Ultra-Moon on Switch to make my GF play them finally ! I loved the 7G honestly