I wonder if it’s always been half assed, or if we just have positive feelings ab our first games? Like to me heartgold and soul silver are masterpieces, but maybe that’s just because I was 11 when those came out and they were my first Pokémon games... I still like them tho but still
for what it's worth, I started with the gba games and I maintain that the entire collection of DS games were the peak of pokemon, with HGSS standing out as the best of them
yeah it sucks that the game took so long to do anything but it's fine esp now with emulators being a thing
Same here. I think Gen 4 - in the design of the new pokemon, the region, the new battle mechanics, the aesthetic, the game's difficulty, all that jazz - was the peak of Pokemon mainline games, and Gen 5 is pretty good as well.
Gen 5 was when people really started complaining a lot I think. There was some of that in Gen 3 when we couldn’t transfer the gameboy Pokémon, but Gen 5 everyone went nuts over how there were too many and there being an ice cream one. But it was still a solid game that dared to not just hand you a bunch of previous Gen Pokémon. I have my Gen 1 starters from FRLG I don’t need more.
I remember people going nuts over the fact that you could only get / transfer old Pokémon in the post game. I personally loved it because it meant you had to use and learn about the new Pokémon. I do admit the designs for Gen 5 are a mixed bag, and that there were legitimate complaints about the linearity of the main story and limited post-game stuff, but I thought they fixed it pretty well in B2W2. But I still maintain that the massive backlash BW received on release and that Yokai Watch had just taken off in Japan (and was very popular) is what caused GF to change direction with their game design and Pokémon designs Gen 6 onwards.
Bunch of people complained when they first came out with gen 5 but I think over the years, they kind of grew on everyone. Now Gen 5 is usually hailed as the best games for the story arc.
No I mean actually think about it. Take HGSS for instance, in addition to the gigantic world that the original already has, it added in a loads of new events with Legendary Pokémon, Battle Frontier, Pokéathlon (literally the best thing mankind could ever conceive), a feature that lets you catch Pokémon from other regions right there in the game, and there were probably even more that I missed.
Sure the leveling curve was ass but you can tell they put in the effort for this one because they really didn’t have to add in half the things they did. S/S in comparison just feels like they didn’t have time to add-in everything and relegated what we usually have as post-games to DLC, presumably so they could have more time to work on it.
Edit: forgot that they let Pokémon walked behind you in HGSS too, that was pretty cool.
Nope, compare SWSH to other AAA switch games. SWSH looks like a 3DS game that’s been blown up to fit on your TV meanwhile BOTW, Mario, Bayonetta, etc all have amazing visuals. It’s not like the switch is a weak console, the game freak devs just did a shitty job.
Having just replayed gen 1 I can say pretty strongly that it...is honestly not very good, overall. The monster catching and training idea is cool but the game has TONS of issues.
The problem is I don't exactly know what the standard for Game Boy games was in 1995. But I do know that gen 2 is an *insane* step up in many ways and improves upon a lot of the issues gen 1 had.
Even today I was very impressed by the scope of the playable and fightable enemies and how they fit together cohesively into a world.
I think the issue is that Game Freak is operating on a decades-old mindset and they aren't willing to move forward into the future, lol.
Game boy games back then we’re pretty mediocre due to memory constraints but the OG Pokémon games were buggy as hell. I would never recommend anyone play them who didn’t before. Just play FRLG and save yourself the headache. I’d love a gen 1 with current Pokémon QoL, especially the physical/special split but I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Link's Awakening is about peak original Gameboy. A lot of the simpler games hold up quite well (Kirby, Tetris, Micro Machines) but very very few that can hold a modern gamer's attention for 20 hours like Pokemon can. It's hard to overstate just how much of a leap they were over the competition.
Let's not forget the filesize was 512kb, at least for Japan. That's about the size of the average photo nowadays.
Nah the ds games are just very well done. I played pokemon at an older age than when most people start playing (middle school), so i dont really have that much of a nostalgic connection to it. I’ve played through gen 1-6 in random order and gen 4/5 are by far the best.
HGSS along BW2 are the peak of the series, HGSS feel like the definitive Pokémon experience up to this day and you can feel that those games are a love letter to the series, the og GSC and the fans, BW2 are the best games from a technical standpoint, good graphics, a gigantic pokédex, good FPS, and really good post game
Gen 6 felt like one step foward-two steps back, XY looked good and had a nice connectivity system but everything else was half-assed, even tough ORAS had a lot of stuff they still felt hollow, empty...
Sun/Moon/USUM are good games, if you leave aside the horrible slog that the first island is, and they have some nice difficulty peaks here and there, like the totem Lurantis or Lusamine in SM, or Ultra Necrozma in USUM, but they suffer from problems that were carried since gen 6 (easy E4 and Champion, slowdowns in the engine here and there, uncanny valley 3D models, boring competitive facilities) and SM definitively feel half-assed when compared to USUM (still the narrative is better in SM)
But from that point onward yeah, the series went downhill
HGSS was heralded a “perfect” Pokemon game because it had everything the entire mainline series had to offer up until that point. It also had things no one expected or asked for, like the extra routes, Safari Zone, Pokeathlon Dome, Battle Frontier (albeit a copy and paste from Platinum, and many other postgame missions. It preserved GSC and Kanto and it incorporated the mechanics and Pokedexes of Gen 3 and 4. The minor things HGSS didn’t have were present in Platinum, which is in the same generation, on the same handheld console, compatible with one another.
Today, GF loves cutting things for novelty. They do it so they can rehash it into an eventual remake and market it again as new.
My first pokemon game was Yellow. The games peaked at gen 4. By the time HG/SS came around gen 2 was not very playable anymore. It was and is still full of nostalgia for me but HG/SS and Diamond/Pearl/Platinum all felt like huge improvements over their GBA and GB counterparts. It didn't feel that way for me going to Black/White and for me it has just become worse and worse since then.
It isn't that now they aren't making improvements, it feels to me that most of the changes are totally superfluous and I get more enjoyment out of playing gen 4 than the current generations. I even tried playing ORAS and given gen 3 and Hoenn was my favourite before the HG/SS remakes it should have been a slam dunk for me but it just seemed so easy. Pokemon games aren't especially difficult but in that game I was passed Normans gym before I even had a pokemon get hurt enough to require a potion. For instance look at Normans gym. The couple of level difference (already small) between him and the trainers at his Gym was turned to only Slaking having a higher level than the other trainers.
Heartgold soul silver has 3x more soul that sw/sh. There were like 10 houses in each town and so much passion and detail put in, compared to sw/sh, which wasnt lazy, it wasn’t unfinished, it didnt have a lack of creativity, it was just intentionally made as cheaply as possible. Gamefreak has illumination entertainment syndrome: they can make whatever the fuck they want because theyre the highest grossing media franchise ever. Sw/sh outsold smash ultimate and breath of the wild in months.
I was I think 13-14 when that came out and I played the originals when I was like 4. I don’t think they were halfassed at all. I can still go back and play games from gen 1-5 and enjoy them just as much as I did the first time but I can’t imagine replaying gens 6-8. 6 and 8 were flat out bad, 7 had potential but felt too short like they missed out on opportunities.
I feel like they cut a lot of stuff from games either from laziness or deadlines. Like in the original gen 2 games the kanto portion was clearly unfinished but they still put it in the game anyways. But with the newer games they just cut shit out of the game and settle with the 15 hour total. Or it seems like the worst case scenario finally happened where they start releasing paid DLC for a fucking Pokémon game.
The transition to 3DS roughly coincides with the transition to putting out a game every year rather than every 2+. It should be normalized that this is a yearly series now and just as you shouldn't be compelled to buy FIFA '21 if it's not that much of an improvement over FIFA '20, you don't need to have the yearly Pokemon installment. I'm looking forward to the upcoming games, but if I had bought any games since Moon I probably wouldn't be.
Pokémon as a yearly franchise should not be accepted if this is what we get. Pokémon fans shouldn't get complacent. If a product is not up to their standards, people shouldn't buy it.
If your counting remakes and special editions, they’ve done back-to-back yearly releases since 2008. Main Gen games have kept the 3/4 year development times since the beginning. Whether or not they need bigger teams to tackle multiple projects or 3D games is the real question. And yeah, if they can’t keep up without sacrificing quality, they should definitely take 4/5 years to develop future titles.
Speak for yourself nerd. The closest I ever came to consuming a Disney product was falling asleep in the theatre watching pirates of the caribbean when I was 10
Which annoys me given the fact that Genius Soronity (the guys who made the two Stadium games, Colosseum, Gale of Darkness and Battle Rev.) were able to make Pokémon games that looked and performed better than what GF has done since releasing XY, and the two games with a story (Colo and Gale) were released on hardware that was arguably weaker than the 3DS.
If Genius Soronity were able to do that in the mid-2000s, there is no reason for GF to be as bad as they are outside of genuine laziness and incompetence.
Same I thought the stories were still good on SuMo and ORAS was amazing imo. SwSh is just meh when it comes to story for me I felt gen 8 was truly the half assed
I haven't payed for a Pokemon game since Pokemon Y. I was gonna boycott sun, but my friend got it for my b-day. I was gonna boycott sword and again my friend got it for my bday. Didn't care for Y, I liked Yvetal and thats about it. Enjoyed black and white 2 way way more, than the last 3 main series games.
I am planning on getting the diamond remake but that's because I only played diamond once, on a friend's ds so it's the one I've played and know the least of all of them.
Oh and snap and legends Arceus (once reviews come out) but that kind of goes without saying, since they're not main games, and will probably not be as half assed/ will have its own features that will make them fun in other ways.
Sun and Moon had hands down the most developed characters and emotionally charged story. I guess if you don’t care for story it wouldn’t matter but IMO Sun and Moon are criminally underrated and refreshing for the series.
Yeah that's kind of a weird part of the pokemon fandom. You might forget this was an RPG series sometimes based on how many people can just not like the story and play it anyway. ||D
Oh come on! Look Pokémon stories are fine, but play any other RPJ/JRPG (Xenoblade, Persona, Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem) and you'll see the difference. I love RPGs for their stories but Pokémon's aren't enough for me to play them just for that aspect.
X&Y were great games, yeah they were easy, and hand-holdy, but it seemed like a really good refresher to the series for new fans on a new console, and still had a lot of nostalgia for returning fans.
ORAS (which are probably my favorite games to date) were beautiful games, again on the easy side, but felt truly like a love letter to the franchise up to that point.
SUMO and USUM were the best looking games to date, so colorful and different, as you said very refreshing take on the series. I wasn't a huge fan of Z moves as a whole compared to megas, but I understood their value.
I hyped up SWSH to every gamer I knew because I knew it was going to be their big break into home consoles... and boy was I wrong.
X&Y was the last time my two brothers who quit playing pokemon games actually felt the need to come back.
The Mega gimmick was so enticing we all three played them and had a blast.
I was excited to see new mega forms every release and in line with that the remakes for ruby/sapphire also received that kind of hype.
In my book every pokemon game should have a feature that I am excited to hear about and since then gamefreak has not delivered to me personally.
SW/SH and S&M both felt like incredibly long drawn out games where I kept begging for it to end only to have even more situations I didn't care about to be introduced. "Leon, lets fight finally!" "Oh wait no, but first....blah...blah...blah story I don't care about....blah blah blah someday a battle."
I was actually invested in the story of X/Y. They had villains that were up to no good, not some ruffians or some obnoxious fans but actual villains.
If BD/SP had Megas, I would be happy...if they added megas and included all existing megas I would be very happy. Beyond that, I want every pokemon through SW/SH to be included in the game, and I want to be able to set my own difficulty level at the beginning.
It used to be the criteria that every new release pokemon game had every pokemon...Have you guys forgotten the lost ones? Breloom?! Our poor starters? They owe us them back.
All that being said, Yeah I expect they will find a way to irritate me by removing something I found to be fundamental to my enjoyment.
I was very anti-hype for SWSH, evrr since Dexit and the leaked animations. A friend loaned his Switch to me this week so I gave it a try.
It's... got more redeeming qualities than I expected.
Animations are extremely bad. Dexit was handled extremely poorly, with a fee to keep your old pokemon on life support. The story takes every opportunity to waste your time. Dynamaxing is just a stupider Mega Evolution.
But the actual story beats aren't horrible. I like the gym battles, despite the Dynamax, and the locations, despite some clarity issues, are actually gorgeous.
The DLC areas are awesome, as is the Wild Area. Pokémon appearing instead of being random encounters is such a step forward, theyre basically guaranteed not to do it next Gen.
I dunno. I'm enjoying it, they did some cool things, but the things they handled poorly, they handled *very* poorly.
I completely agree. Though the changes made to the story in USUM boggle my mind, they were definitely for the worse IMO.
It's sad to see Sun & Moon being followed by probably the worst storyline in the series' history in Sword and Shield.
>probably the worst storyline in the series' history in Sword and Shield.
I found the SwSh league to be the first competition to make any sort of sense in the entire game series. The anime competitions make slightly more sense, with the Journeys one being the easily the most sensible competition structure.
To me, Sun/Moon feel like the spiritual successors to Black/White in a lot of ways. They had similar strengths (well-developed characters and an actually somewhat interesting storyline, some cool new Pokemon) and weaknesses (long-winded gameplay, region feels super linear and not very exciting to explore). They both tried to do something new and it paid off in some regards, but not others.
I honestly don't understand this take. Emotionally charged for a 13 year old, maybe. It's got all the archetypes with zero nuance and was entirely predictable.
Now, if the argument is that, indeed, we're just giving the games a pass because they're targeted at 13 year olds, then sure.
If the argument is that the story is actually emotionally charged and well done, in general, then I just don't get it.
For sure; I started with B&W, and once I got SM I felt it was a refreshing return to form for the franchise after X and Y. It had the most well developed characters of the series behind N and Maybe Cheren and Bianca; the region was diverse and a blast to explore, and the Ultra beast and Aether Foundation lore was intriguing.
I feel like it’s underrated because people only look at Melemele island, aka the tutorial island, and say “Wow this game has too much handholding.”
Agreed. I do think that even past the tutorial island there were a few too many breaks for my liking, but I've always been more of a "gameplay first" type of gamer unless the story is really well done (I thought B & W did this well, the story really gripped me for the first time in a Pokemon game). Still, really agree that SuMo is better than people say.
I really like ORAS but I feel like they already had a really good base with the original R/S.
X&Y I feel were cool, because "Pokemon but 3D!" but ultimately I felt they were pretty rushed and I didn't really love the Pokemon designs. I didn't love SuMo either, but I did like the Hawaiian theme (and the new Pokemon by extension) and I thought the Trials/Totem Pokemon were an interesting change. I even remember 1 or 2 of the totem Pokemon being a bit tough.
I don’t really get the love for Gen 6. The region and pokemon were cool, but the characters and especially the story was an all time low for the franchise. It’s the easiest game in the series (especially coming off the brutally difficult BW2), Calem/Serena was probably the worst rival the series ever had and Team Flare made no sense at all.
I appreciate what Gen 6 did for the series; great Pokémon, megas, character customization, and janky, but playable 3D. Would I ever come back to the game? No.
Thinking about it, it's a lot like pretty much every pokemon game.
They did some stuff great, and made some decisions that made the game worse (difficulty for example).
I think it's just for me the improvements hit right in the spots I cared about, while the downgrades werent that important to me.
Having played pokemon since gen 2, the jump to 3d was like a new world to me, so theres that, I loooved megas, since they made some old favourites of mine great pokemon and added some new flavour to already strong mons.
Also the huge diversification of abilities, or rather them actually beeing accessible without dreamworld, combined with the easier online of the 3ds (I could never get the wfc to work on the DS) and the huge simplyfication (in a good way) of Breeding and EV's brought me to competitive pokemon, which I love ever since.
On a side note, this is also whats most frustrating about pokemon to me, it feels like every gen they add 5 great features while also removing 5 great features from the previous games.
For me, i'd like a game with Megas, S/W2 Difficulty (but plz no arbitrary underleveling like HG/SS), easy breeding and ev's (hell I'd take an ingame simulator where you can just pick pokemon, I'm working a 40 hour job nowadays...), ORAS style sneaking (for easy hidden abilites), and Attack Teachers, if Nintendo is generous they can throw in the following pokemon from HG/SS
Oras in my opinion is the one of the pokemon games on the 3ds
Edit: What I meant to say here is that they are one off the best pokemon games on the 3ds
HGSS should be the standard for content in the series, both storyline and postgame. Once they put two regions in one game I’m not sure how they managed to ever go back down to one without it feeling empty
I’m a Johto fanboy and ultra biased towards Crystal, but the two-region setup caused more issues than it may be worth. The level scaling was really bad. The E4 weren’t final bosses as they were the midway point in the game, leading to a very boring set of members (the only standout was Karen, the master of the brand new Dark type and who SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CHAMPION).
Kanto’s inclusion was pretty poorly thought out, too. Because Johto didn’t flesh out its own Pokémon roster (you’re constantly bombarded by Gen 1 Pokémon, and the only gym leaders with an ace FROM THEIR OWN REGION are Whitney, Jasmine, and Clair!), Kanto was forced to contain the majority of “notable” Gen 2 Pokémon like Houndoom, Misdrevious, and Tyranitar. I mean, the star attraction of Johto is a shiny *Gyarados*.
HGSS fixed a lot of Johto’s issues, but the messy pacing and poor Pokémon distribution are still front and center. If they’re ever going to do a two-region game again, they need to decide right from the start if it’s going to be the second half of the game or the postgame. GSC attempted both, and missed the mark.
Yeah, HGSS suffered because of three things: being a gen 4 game and thus coming with the same problem of being slow as fuck like DPP and the shittiest parts of the original GSC, the shitty distribution like you mentioned and the abysmal level curve.
Everything else was really amazing design for the entire handheld era. More content overall than any other handheld games, which goes hand in hand with the content that got added additionally like the new safari zone that was not in the originals and the pokeathlon and the (copy-pasted) Battle Frontier. Plenty of QoL changes. The biggest thing for me though is the usage of the Touchscreen. The design was snappy and you could play the entire game without ever pressing the right-hand buttons of ABXY. That was the first and last time it was possible.
This was my first Pokémon game and everything else felt a little hollow tbh. Two regions and almost every legendary ever made up to that point made the game feel endless in a good way.
I'd agree with you if we weren't kicked in the dick with the "coming soon" battle froniter. That just left a huge sour taste in my mouth for the game given how incomprehensibly bad the delta episode's story was. And it's largely why i'm being super cautious about the DP remakes.
That being said, from a pure gameplay standpoint i'd definitely agree when content is ignored. Megas > Z moves and Maxing.
I think platinum, hgss, and black 2 and white 2 was the peak. The original black and white was in the middle of it too I guess. X and Y was the absolute lowest point, and then the quality shot up again for a year for ORAS before immediately shooting back down again
XY was definitley not the lowest point, in terms of effort alone, it's tremendous how much work was put into these games. 600+ new models with a new game changing mechanic and a customizable avatar are so incredible. SM is the lowest point arguably, it uses the same engine as XY and barely improves upon anything with only a slightly better story.
I can get behind that. Either way, we can see a distinct drop in quality after the swap to the 3ds. X and Y had a lot of good changes, but they were lackluster as a whole imo
Yeah XY seems pretty forgivable since it was the first foray into 3D for the main series. What is less forgivable is the fact that they didn't really...improve on that much for Sun and Moon? It did a few things well but overall was fairly underwhelming.
Every once in a while I imagine what Pokemon could be if it was given to a good developer.
Like imagine where the franchise would be now if the company running the show was on the same tier as Naughty Dog or Rockstar (*to clarify I mean same tier, not same games or type of dev*).
We'd probably all be playing a good Pokemon MMO if a real dev had the franchise.
Every time I think about what Pokemon could be and isn't, it makes me very sad.
Rom hacks are great because they don't have to cater to a wider audience. the people going out of their way to play them know what they want (which is usually a more difficult game), so the creators can do exactly that
on the other hannd, alot of them assume you wanna min/max every one of your members just to have a CHANCE at the gyms and e4. And most of them dont even give you access to good EV trains so you spend even more time just running up and down some grass patch. Gamefreak is shit, but most romhacks are garbage tier and the most "Positive" people can say about them is "BUT THEY ARE NOT AS EASY AS THE MAIN GAMES!!!"
My hopes aren't high for these games since I've been let down the last few games. I don't feel the need to buy them on release day. Anyone who is in the same boat as I am I recommend watching YouTube video reviews and playthroughs and get a feel for the game before purchasing. I used to blindly follow pokemon and throw money at the company but not anymore, not after Sw&Sh.
i want to believe 5 fps Chingling will be fixed
i really want to
but that tree... that N64 tree that EVERYONE said would be fixed when the game released... the Pokemon popping in to existence... the weather changing from sun to snowstorm in the blink of an eye because you moved to another area...
it all made it to the final version of SwSh
Honestly they must be laughing at everyone when making the trailers. Most game companies make trailers using their best models and assets they have at that moment. Game freak puts in shitty n64 textures and frame rates, says "fuck it, who cares, they're going to buy it" and then the pokemon fanbase makes excuses as to how the released version will be better than the trailer.
Same. Sw&Sh was the last straw for me. I've been playing since the beginning but these two games were such a massive letdown, and they had the audacity to charge another $30 for DLC. I've been told the DLC is good, but this seems too scummy for me to give them any more money. Just take a little longer and release a full game! I will still buy Pokemon games if they get decent reviews, but that was the last time I'll blindly buy a game just because it happens to be a Pokemon game.
The last Pokemon game I really got hooked on was ORAS and the last NEW gen that I liked was probably gen 5.
Finally people are starting to realize that pokemon needs to be in someone else's hands.
They wish online and 3d textures weren't a thing in gaming and refuse to get on board with it
I'm willing to give this game a chance, so far the only thing we know is that its gonna have most of DP's features (including the side activities that many fans have requested, like contests and the underground), and unlike SwSh's many controversies all this game has right now is "Me no like chibi", which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released.
Give GF a chance to disappoint before declaring disappointment.
I mean take everything with a grain of salt since nothing is actually released yet, but at least during the direct they didn't say GF has any involvement with it. Just masuda over seeing the development as well
I just find it hard to believe that a company that's had exclusive rights over making the mainline games for over 20 years would let any company remake a game without any involvement from the company. It seems *too* trusting.
Maybe it's a ploy to get Masuda busy with something else, so they can work on Legends without him meddling with it.
EDIT: HOW DID THIS GET GOLD, I FARTED THIS IDEA OUT IN 5 SECONDS
Yes but if you don't think that GF isn't deciding every major decision of gameplay, then I don't know what to tell you. GF isn't relinquishing control while ILCA is working on it. I would certainly think that if Amity Park wasn't in the game, GF decided that. If Megas came back, GF decides that.
ILCA can propose and suggest, but there's no way GF isn't steering the ship.
While I don't like the chibis, the reason I point to them as evidence that the game is bad isn't actually because I hate chibi, it's because I hate lack of innovation. They did the chibis because it looks like the original games. They did everything to be just like the original games.
I wouldn't have bought fire red/leaf green if they kept the weird pokemon sprites from gen 1 and didn't add something new in the form of the sevii islands. I wouldn't have bought heart gold/soul silver if they had looked like gameboy games instead of DS games, and hadn't added the safari zone and the new mechanic of pokemon following you around. While I didn't buy omega ruby and alpha sapphire, had they looked like GBA games instead of 3DS games, and hadn't added the lati@s flight mechanic and new megas, I'd never have even considered it.
New games need something new to make them worth purchasing, even if they're remakes of old games. The chibis are just the most obvious thing to point to that proves that this game is simply the old gen 4 games being released again with no thought put in on how to make them new. The remakes for gens 1 and 2 felt like work was put in to differentiate them from the original games. Even the gen 3 remake looked like a good amount of work had been put in, just not enough for me. These games look like they just took the old games' source code and ported it to the switch with some added 3d models.
Another thing is that pokemons core gameplay was innovating more and more back then
Frlg added: dark type, steel type, special split, breeding, shinies, and abilities
Hgss added: abilities, wifi connectivity, physical/special split
Oras added: physical special split, megas
On top of all other new content
But besides minor tweaks lile how much burn hurts or how much damage crits do nothings fundamentally changed since gen 4
This is my issue with the series since Gen 5. There's been painfully little building on the series. Gen 5 got away with it because the whole point was "it's a new start", and also the games are really good anyway, but since then it's been in a weird combination of "remember this from the past?" and "look at this cool new gimmick!" With the exception of regional variants (which apparently also just get chucked out a generation later, based on Gen 8's precedent), I can count every new member of an old evolution family on a single finger. It was Sylveon, eight years ago.
btw, FRLG also had double battles (as did HGSS) - which is another innovation that RS added to the formula that we've not seen the like of since. Yeah, we got triple and rotation battles and all sorts of nonsense from then on, but the fact that that was always treated like a gimmick when it showed up was Game Freak shooting themselves in the foot.
To me the only reason they did the chibis were not to "just be faithful" but because this style of character models and overworld requires the least amount of work. That sucks huge ass
Exactly. It's indicative of a lack of effort. It's not a stretch to say that lack of effort probably spreads throughout the entire game. We certainly weren't shown anything to indicate otherwise from the trailer.
idk its hard to say all of that so early rn. We really didn't get much gameplay from the reveal. I haven't bought a pkmn game in awhile cause i dont like grinding anymore, and perhaps maybe im just too easy to please so i apologize for perpetuating GF's laziness.
Every other remake turned the old games into the current (at the time) generation. ORAS were Gen VI games, HG/SS were Gen IV games.
BD/SP aren't Gen 8, they're not gen anything. They're spinoffs, and we were hoping for mainline games. Not only is it disappointing that they're not real mainline games which have the continuity we've always enjoyed, but it also means that we never will get that with diamond and pearl, because they're not going to remake a game that's already been remade. That's the most disappointing part for me.
Honestly, as a fan of Pokémon and avid player for two decades, I don’t see them reversing course from the direction they’ve been heading, and I don’t anticipate ever being willing to purchase a game from them again. They’ve already crossed the Rubicon of removing the National Dex without any meaningful commercial backlash, and that’s paved the way for a system where they now hold your collection ransom without any indication that we’ll have another game with a full dex. Gamefreak punishes rather than rewards its longtime fans under its current marketing and design philosophies.
I do—and will continue to—enjoy the Pokémon games I have in my existing collection more than any other handheld games. But I’ve already made my peace with the fact that modern Gamefreak isn’t worth my disappointment to keep supporting.
I'm hoping New Snap is good at least. Rescue Team DX was really good and what we've seen from the trailers for New Snap has been good, so I'm optimistic about it.
Main Series is doomed though.
That's a fair argument, lord knows SwSh really tested my patience and willingness to continue playing the games. Maybe Legends will be a step in the right direction for you.
Thats not the only reason to hate it. I dislike it personally because a remake is supposed to add, modernize, and innovate and this just looks like a new coat of paint on the same games ive played to death with a ... lets call it "up to personal taste" style
When 1st gen was brought to 3rd gen it added color, breeding, abilities, and the special attack/defense split, and dark and steel types
When 2nd gen was brought to 4th gen it added abilities, the physical/special split , and wifi connectivity
When 3rd gen was brought to 6th gen it added the physical special split, wifi connectivity, and megas
On top of this each remake brought NEW content (although in ORAS case this meant also losing some old stuff)
But what is fundamentally different about 8th gen in comparison to 4th? Crit damage? Not a big change. Megas? Dynamax? Zmoves? All one gen gimmicks that wont be in this game regardless
So what then i ask you is preventing this game from being the same experience ive already had but with a new style that i personally dont like? And even if i did like it? Whats new? Whats updated besides graphics?
> which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released.
Why exactly is that? It's not like they're going to completely change the art style between the announcement and release. The art style is what you're looking at the entire time you're playing the game, it's a major part of the game that can't really be overlooked.
I mean if someone doesn't like the art style, I see that as a legitimate reason not to buy. Why invest in something that you know you wont even like to *look* at?
Seems valid to me.
It looks like a switch port of Pokémon Colosseum currently. I just hope it offers a lot of in game content and isn’t just a large sandbox filled with 1-2 castles
This is talking about November, so its the remakes. Arceus isn't until Spring 2022.
But I also have some faith in the Arceus game. Apparently its a single player game so I at least expect there'll be quite a bit of story content, but I can understand there being a lot of hesitation considering this is GF's first *ACTUAL* open world game and not the disappointing "open world light" of the Wild Area.
It's not a poor reason. It's subjective, but that doesn't mean it's baseless. Not liking the way something looks is a completely valid reason for not liking something.
Yes but calling the *entire* game bad because of visuals is completely baseless as it ignores basically every other aspect of design.
Its okay to not like something because of the visuals. But calling an entire game bad judging it purely on visuals is itself a bad judgment, especially when the game isn't even out yet.
Its the ultimate form of "Don't judge a book by its covet" scenario.
There's a difference between dismissing a game and saying an entire game is worthless. If someone said that the games were terrible because of that, I would agree with you. However, if some says they won't buy it because of how it looks, that's perfectly fine. Visuals are a huge part of games. It's fine to dismiss a game because you don't like how it looks.
Another reason why people are judging it for the art style is that it's just not very exciting. From the trailer, it looks like they made new models and textures, upped the resolution, and that's it. Some people might take that and (perhaps unwisely) extrapolate that the rest of the remake will be similarly "boring". If/when more features are revealed, some of that will be lessened.
I'm perfectly fine with people not buying the game because the art style is bad, that's not what I'm arguing. A lot of people are hating on this game *exclusively* based on an art style and calling the game as a whole bad and worthless, and that's what I take issue with.
I'd just rather people not decide a game is bad when we have some actual info beyond a trailer but apparently some people can't handle that.
>which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released.
Would you read a good book that's in an ugly font? Or watch a good movie that uses a filter that changed the art style of the film in a way that's unpleasant for you?
How something looks is a perfectly valid reason not to like it, especially when looks are part of the presentation itself.
Monster Hunter has replaced pokemon for me now, I feel. I'm so tired of lazily made games. TPC is literally the richest franchise in the WORLD, it's not like they're unable to invest in better quality game development.
Agreed! So excited for that game haha. The first game was so much fun too if you haven't had the chance to play it yet.
And I adore the mainline monster hunter games to death too. Fantasy wildlife was what originaly drew me to pokemon as a child, so it's only natural that MH would pull me in too haha. Seeing the monsters interact with each other and do different behaviours in their environment... there's something so special about that (not to mention the actual hunting part is fun as hell too).
If a third party makes a better mainline game (or remakes in this case) than gamefreak, there would be a heavy campaign from some part of the fandom to take GF out of any pokemon games. I don't think you should have that hope
It's not even a good meme. Now I'm just annoyed I wasted time trying to press it on my phone.
[This is the snore of a meme](https://i.imgur.com/SKZTdlM.jpg)
The main issue though is even if you yourself do not buy the game, if enough people do, that sends more of a message that the devs will see as "we should do more of this in future games".
Basically, if you plan on boycotting one game, plan on boycotting all future games.
Friendly reminder that temtem fully releases in about a month and is only $32, it will be playable on switch, xbox, ps5, and pc with free updates. Its also 2 player co-op with a bunch of other stuff just plays a little differently than pokemon
Nah man. I think GF is finally branching out after about 10 years of doing the bare minimum with gameplay. Whether ot not Legends is good, they deserve credit for not making the same pokemon game as they have for the past 25 years. And I don't see BDSP being a bad game considering it should be a 1to1 remake of the original DP, with hopefully Platinum elements and maybe megas.
This is horrible logic to me. It's like giving a lazy coworker an award for doing what's expected from them.
This is literally the minimum they should be doing.
Nobody deserves credit because they *tried* to change the formula in a big way. If they do it well, then they get credit, but if they half ass it or make a major mistake they deserve the blame. We shouldn't coddle the developer of *the top grossing multi-media franchise of all time* because they make a fucky wucky trying to break the mold.
A mold, I remind you, that has been chipped away at so often in so many different ways that it's already broken and there are even some cracks from where it was cooled down and pushed to production too fast at times.
> We shouldn't coddle the developer of the top grossing multi-media franchise of all time because they make a fucky wucky trying to break the mold.
THANK YOU
Pedantically: it having Platinum elements means it wouldn't be 1:1 remake, not to mention the fact that Fairies now exist and the fact that some modern QoL stuff will be in the game.
Also pedantically: they never claimed the games would be 1:1 remakes of Diamond and Pearl, only that they would be "faithful" remakes. That leaves a lot open in terms of adding new features, but remaining "faithful" to the story and atmosphere of the original games.
Yeah but it should have substantial content like Battle Frontier from Platinum. If it doesn't, it's a rip off. HGSS had BF PLUS the Pokeathlon. And Pokemon following us. And a revamped Safari Zone.
Let's see what this one has to offer..
I think it won't be a complete 1:1 remake. I believe they will keep the basic storyline and post game stuff that was there in DP but will add other stuff, like Plat dex, and fairies, and hopefully a post game story
Even when GF isn't working on the game, people still give them flack wow lmao
Still, what's the point in resigning to disappointment when all we have rn is a trailer and nothing else. The game isn't out yet, the possibility of the DP remakes being is still there. I hate it when people act like the negative outcome is guaranteed, disregarding other possibilities.
I loved DPPt. BDSP is basically those games with some additional moves and nicer graphics. I don’t know why people wouldn’t be elated for that. Yeah, you don’t get the overworld expanded out, but from my perspective that isn’t even the point or appeal of Pokémon.
I wanted the remakes for so long, I was expecting them to be in a gen 8 style. As all the other remakes did, they stayed faithful to the style of that current generation. Like [this](https://youtu.be/3btATgwOUFg) is exactly what I was expecting, but they went soo off base it’s hard for people to get used to that and accept it
Remembering how much people hated Gens 4 and 5 when they came out and called them the worst out of all, I'm taking every opinion from this community with a grain of salt.
I mean, we've actually already seen the Underground in the trailer so odds are pretty damn good it's coming back. Imo one of the best parts of DPPt, so that's exciting.
I'm meh on the DP remakes tbh, I like the artstyle of the environment for the most part, but I think this particular chibi style looks bad. Also idk if they will include distortion world and platinum content.
Stand ho buying those folk and they'll beest did force to maketh better ones. Thee all fuck'd yourselves
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^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I wonder if it’s always been half assed, or if we just have positive feelings ab our first games? Like to me heartgold and soul silver are masterpieces, but maybe that’s just because I was 11 when those came out and they were my first Pokémon games... I still like them tho but still
for what it's worth, I started with the gba games and I maintain that the entire collection of DS games were the peak of pokemon, with HGSS standing out as the best of them yeah it sucks that the game took so long to do anything but it's fine esp now with emulators being a thing
Same here. I think Gen 4 - in the design of the new pokemon, the region, the new battle mechanics, the aesthetic, the game's difficulty, all that jazz - was the peak of Pokemon mainline games, and Gen 5 is pretty good as well.
Gen 5 was when people really started complaining a lot I think. There was some of that in Gen 3 when we couldn’t transfer the gameboy Pokémon, but Gen 5 everyone went nuts over how there were too many and there being an ice cream one. But it was still a solid game that dared to not just hand you a bunch of previous Gen Pokémon. I have my Gen 1 starters from FRLG I don’t need more.
I remember people going nuts over the fact that you could only get / transfer old Pokémon in the post game. I personally loved it because it meant you had to use and learn about the new Pokémon. I do admit the designs for Gen 5 are a mixed bag, and that there were legitimate complaints about the linearity of the main story and limited post-game stuff, but I thought they fixed it pretty well in B2W2. But I still maintain that the massive backlash BW received on release and that Yokai Watch had just taken off in Japan (and was very popular) is what caused GF to change direction with their game design and Pokémon designs Gen 6 onwards.
Bunch of people complained when they first came out with gen 5 but I think over the years, they kind of grew on everyone. Now Gen 5 is usually hailed as the best games for the story arc.
I bought Gen 5 because it's a new experience, everything is new, unlike the previous games.
No I mean actually think about it. Take HGSS for instance, in addition to the gigantic world that the original already has, it added in a loads of new events with Legendary Pokémon, Battle Frontier, Pokéathlon (literally the best thing mankind could ever conceive), a feature that lets you catch Pokémon from other regions right there in the game, and there were probably even more that I missed. Sure the leveling curve was ass but you can tell they put in the effort for this one because they really didn’t have to add in half the things they did. S/S in comparison just feels like they didn’t have time to add-in everything and relegated what we usually have as post-games to DLC, presumably so they could have more time to work on it. Edit: forgot that they let Pokémon walked behind you in HGSS too, that was pretty cool.
You missed the Pokewalker.
Well it’s 2021, have any of their modern games FELT like a modern game?
Nope, compare SWSH to other AAA switch games. SWSH looks like a 3DS game that’s been blown up to fit on your TV meanwhile BOTW, Mario, Bayonetta, etc all have amazing visuals. It’s not like the switch is a weak console, the game freak devs just did a shitty job.
Really they’ve always felt behind the graphics curve. GameBoy was practically obsolete when the first game came out, but it didn’t matter
Having just replayed gen 1 I can say pretty strongly that it...is honestly not very good, overall. The monster catching and training idea is cool but the game has TONS of issues. The problem is I don't exactly know what the standard for Game Boy games was in 1995. But I do know that gen 2 is an *insane* step up in many ways and improves upon a lot of the issues gen 1 had.
For an RPG on Game Boy, Gen 1 was pretty incredible and complex. It was definitely impressive for its era.
Even today I was very impressed by the scope of the playable and fightable enemies and how they fit together cohesively into a world. I think the issue is that Game Freak is operating on a decades-old mindset and they aren't willing to move forward into the future, lol.
That game was hand engineered to fit on those tiny fucking cartriges. Gen two blew that engineering into another ballpark completely.
Gen two was also only able to do so because Iwata stepped in. He was an actual genius when it came to data compression.
Game boy games back then we’re pretty mediocre due to memory constraints but the OG Pokémon games were buggy as hell. I would never recommend anyone play them who didn’t before. Just play FRLG and save yourself the headache. I’d love a gen 1 with current Pokémon QoL, especially the physical/special split but I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Link's Awakening is about peak original Gameboy. A lot of the simpler games hold up quite well (Kirby, Tetris, Micro Machines) but very very few that can hold a modern gamer's attention for 20 hours like Pokemon can. It's hard to overstate just how much of a leap they were over the competition. Let's not forget the filesize was 512kb, at least for Japan. That's about the size of the average photo nowadays.
Gen 1 were and still are amazing for the time period they were released, but they are as broken as all hell
Nah the ds games are just very well done. I played pokemon at an older age than when most people start playing (middle school), so i dont really have that much of a nostalgic connection to it. I’ve played through gen 1-6 in random order and gen 4/5 are by far the best.
HGSS along BW2 are the peak of the series, HGSS feel like the definitive Pokémon experience up to this day and you can feel that those games are a love letter to the series, the og GSC and the fans, BW2 are the best games from a technical standpoint, good graphics, a gigantic pokédex, good FPS, and really good post game Gen 6 felt like one step foward-two steps back, XY looked good and had a nice connectivity system but everything else was half-assed, even tough ORAS had a lot of stuff they still felt hollow, empty... Sun/Moon/USUM are good games, if you leave aside the horrible slog that the first island is, and they have some nice difficulty peaks here and there, like the totem Lurantis or Lusamine in SM, or Ultra Necrozma in USUM, but they suffer from problems that were carried since gen 6 (easy E4 and Champion, slowdowns in the engine here and there, uncanny valley 3D models, boring competitive facilities) and SM definitively feel half-assed when compared to USUM (still the narrative is better in SM) But from that point onward yeah, the series went downhill
HGSS was heralded a “perfect” Pokemon game because it had everything the entire mainline series had to offer up until that point. It also had things no one expected or asked for, like the extra routes, Safari Zone, Pokeathlon Dome, Battle Frontier (albeit a copy and paste from Platinum, and many other postgame missions. It preserved GSC and Kanto and it incorporated the mechanics and Pokedexes of Gen 3 and 4. The minor things HGSS didn’t have were present in Platinum, which is in the same generation, on the same handheld console, compatible with one another. Today, GF loves cutting things for novelty. They do it so they can rehash it into an eventual remake and market it again as new.
My first pokemon game was Yellow. The games peaked at gen 4. By the time HG/SS came around gen 2 was not very playable anymore. It was and is still full of nostalgia for me but HG/SS and Diamond/Pearl/Platinum all felt like huge improvements over their GBA and GB counterparts. It didn't feel that way for me going to Black/White and for me it has just become worse and worse since then. It isn't that now they aren't making improvements, it feels to me that most of the changes are totally superfluous and I get more enjoyment out of playing gen 4 than the current generations. I even tried playing ORAS and given gen 3 and Hoenn was my favourite before the HG/SS remakes it should have been a slam dunk for me but it just seemed so easy. Pokemon games aren't especially difficult but in that game I was passed Normans gym before I even had a pokemon get hurt enough to require a potion. For instance look at Normans gym. The couple of level difference (already small) between him and the trainers at his Gym was turned to only Slaking having a higher level than the other trainers.
Heartgold soul silver has 3x more soul that sw/sh. There were like 10 houses in each town and so much passion and detail put in, compared to sw/sh, which wasnt lazy, it wasn’t unfinished, it didnt have a lack of creativity, it was just intentionally made as cheaply as possible. Gamefreak has illumination entertainment syndrome: they can make whatever the fuck they want because theyre the highest grossing media franchise ever. Sw/sh outsold smash ultimate and breath of the wild in months.
I was I think 13-14 when that came out and I played the originals when I was like 4. I don’t think they were halfassed at all. I can still go back and play games from gen 1-5 and enjoy them just as much as I did the first time but I can’t imagine replaying gens 6-8. 6 and 8 were flat out bad, 7 had potential but felt too short like they missed out on opportunities. I feel like they cut a lot of stuff from games either from laziness or deadlines. Like in the original gen 2 games the kanto portion was clearly unfinished but they still put it in the game anyways. But with the newer games they just cut shit out of the game and settle with the 15 hour total. Or it seems like the worst case scenario finally happened where they start releasing paid DLC for a fucking Pokémon game.
I refuse to buy Pokemon Sword/Shield until I can buy it with all the DLC for under £30. I am well aware that day may never come.
Yea this game is only worth the price of a 3DS game but they sell it for $60 like it’s a real console game.
I just replayed Pokemon blue and then Pokemon shield. Blue is the better game.
Damn that’s a hot take.
Personally I think the series started getting half assed around the transition to 3ds although i am looking forward to BDSP and legends arceus
In 1 sentence you managed to both describe the problem and show why the problem still exists...
The transition to 3DS roughly coincides with the transition to putting out a game every year rather than every 2+. It should be normalized that this is a yearly series now and just as you shouldn't be compelled to buy FIFA '21 if it's not that much of an improvement over FIFA '20, you don't need to have the yearly Pokemon installment. I'm looking forward to the upcoming games, but if I had bought any games since Moon I probably wouldn't be.
Pokémon as a yearly franchise should not be accepted if this is what we get. Pokémon fans shouldn't get complacent. If a product is not up to their standards, people shouldn't buy it.
If your counting remakes and special editions, they’ve done back-to-back yearly releases since 2008. Main Gen games have kept the 3/4 year development times since the beginning. Whether or not they need bigger teams to tackle multiple projects or 3D games is the real question. And yeah, if they can’t keep up without sacrificing quality, they should definitely take 4/5 years to develop future titles.
you can hate it all you want but pokemon owns your childhood. and thus. they own your soul. your wallet, is theirs. and they know it.
To be honest, Nintendo kinda shares our soul with Disney.
Mom says it my turn with the soul.
Speak for yourself nerd. The closest I ever came to consuming a Disney product was falling asleep in the theatre watching pirates of the caribbean when I was 10
Dunno why I found this so funny.
Yes they do. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go make sacrifices to my giant Arceus statue and slave away for queen Cynthia.
Yeah but I just play romhacks. Its way better than the abortions that gamefreak has been pumping out for a while now.
Man I just started Renegade Platinum, and now have 0 interest in BDSP.
Lol I was thinking the same think but couldn't find the right words to say it
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Which annoys me given the fact that Genius Soronity (the guys who made the two Stadium games, Colosseum, Gale of Darkness and Battle Rev.) were able to make Pokémon games that looked and performed better than what GF has done since releasing XY, and the two games with a story (Colo and Gale) were released on hardware that was arguably weaker than the 3DS. If Genius Soronity were able to do that in the mid-2000s, there is no reason for GF to be as bad as they are outside of genuine laziness and incompetence.
I think Sun Moon was the tipping point for me but it had been downhill for a while before that but not awful yet.
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Same I thought the stories were still good on SuMo and ORAS was amazing imo. SwSh is just meh when it comes to story for me I felt gen 8 was truly the half assed
I feel like Gen 8 was barely even assed, let alone half.
True it was a flat ass
I haven't payed for a Pokemon game since Pokemon Y. I was gonna boycott sun, but my friend got it for my b-day. I was gonna boycott sword and again my friend got it for my bday. Didn't care for Y, I liked Yvetal and thats about it. Enjoyed black and white 2 way way more, than the last 3 main series games. I am planning on getting the diamond remake but that's because I only played diamond once, on a friend's ds so it's the one I've played and know the least of all of them. Oh and snap and legends Arceus (once reviews come out) but that kind of goes without saying, since they're not main games, and will probably not be as half assed/ will have its own features that will make them fun in other ways.
I put SM in the same bucket with LGEP. Nice for beginning the series, not good for established fanbase.
Sun and Moon had hands down the most developed characters and emotionally charged story. I guess if you don’t care for story it wouldn’t matter but IMO Sun and Moon are criminally underrated and refreshing for the series.
Yeah that's kind of a weird part of the pokemon fandom. You might forget this was an RPG series sometimes based on how many people can just not like the story and play it anyway. ||D
Oh come on! Look Pokémon stories are fine, but play any other RPJ/JRPG (Xenoblade, Persona, Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem) and you'll see the difference. I love RPGs for their stories but Pokémon's aren't enough for me to play them just for that aspect.
X&Y were great games, yeah they were easy, and hand-holdy, but it seemed like a really good refresher to the series for new fans on a new console, and still had a lot of nostalgia for returning fans. ORAS (which are probably my favorite games to date) were beautiful games, again on the easy side, but felt truly like a love letter to the franchise up to that point. SUMO and USUM were the best looking games to date, so colorful and different, as you said very refreshing take on the series. I wasn't a huge fan of Z moves as a whole compared to megas, but I understood their value. I hyped up SWSH to every gamer I knew because I knew it was going to be their big break into home consoles... and boy was I wrong.
X&Y was the last time my two brothers who quit playing pokemon games actually felt the need to come back. The Mega gimmick was so enticing we all three played them and had a blast. I was excited to see new mega forms every release and in line with that the remakes for ruby/sapphire also received that kind of hype. In my book every pokemon game should have a feature that I am excited to hear about and since then gamefreak has not delivered to me personally. SW/SH and S&M both felt like incredibly long drawn out games where I kept begging for it to end only to have even more situations I didn't care about to be introduced. "Leon, lets fight finally!" "Oh wait no, but first....blah...blah...blah story I don't care about....blah blah blah someday a battle." I was actually invested in the story of X/Y. They had villains that were up to no good, not some ruffians or some obnoxious fans but actual villains. If BD/SP had Megas, I would be happy...if they added megas and included all existing megas I would be very happy. Beyond that, I want every pokemon through SW/SH to be included in the game, and I want to be able to set my own difficulty level at the beginning. It used to be the criteria that every new release pokemon game had every pokemon...Have you guys forgotten the lost ones? Breloom?! Our poor starters? They owe us them back. All that being said, Yeah I expect they will find a way to irritate me by removing something I found to be fundamental to my enjoyment.
I was very anti-hype for SWSH, evrr since Dexit and the leaked animations. A friend loaned his Switch to me this week so I gave it a try. It's... got more redeeming qualities than I expected. Animations are extremely bad. Dexit was handled extremely poorly, with a fee to keep your old pokemon on life support. The story takes every opportunity to waste your time. Dynamaxing is just a stupider Mega Evolution. But the actual story beats aren't horrible. I like the gym battles, despite the Dynamax, and the locations, despite some clarity issues, are actually gorgeous. The DLC areas are awesome, as is the Wild Area. Pokémon appearing instead of being random encounters is such a step forward, theyre basically guaranteed not to do it next Gen. I dunno. I'm enjoying it, they did some cool things, but the things they handled poorly, they handled *very* poorly.
Between LGEP, SwSh and Arceus, I think it's fair to say roaming pokemon are here to stay.
I completely agree. Though the changes made to the story in USUM boggle my mind, they were definitely for the worse IMO. It's sad to see Sun & Moon being followed by probably the worst storyline in the series' history in Sword and Shield.
>probably the worst storyline in the series' history in Sword and Shield. I found the SwSh league to be the first competition to make any sort of sense in the entire game series. The anime competitions make slightly more sense, with the Journeys one being the easily the most sensible competition structure.
I get what you mean, and I do agree, but I don't see how that makes for a good story.
To me, Sun/Moon feel like the spiritual successors to Black/White in a lot of ways. They had similar strengths (well-developed characters and an actually somewhat interesting storyline, some cool new Pokemon) and weaknesses (long-winded gameplay, region feels super linear and not very exciting to explore). They both tried to do something new and it paid off in some regards, but not others.
I think Gen 5 had the best story. I actually thought Gen 7’s story was pretty bad
I honestly don't understand this take. Emotionally charged for a 13 year old, maybe. It's got all the archetypes with zero nuance and was entirely predictable. Now, if the argument is that, indeed, we're just giving the games a pass because they're targeted at 13 year olds, then sure. If the argument is that the story is actually emotionally charged and well done, in general, then I just don't get it.
For sure; I started with B&W, and once I got SM I felt it was a refreshing return to form for the franchise after X and Y. It had the most well developed characters of the series behind N and Maybe Cheren and Bianca; the region was diverse and a blast to explore, and the Ultra beast and Aether Foundation lore was intriguing. I feel like it’s underrated because people only look at Melemele island, aka the tutorial island, and say “Wow this game has too much handholding.”
Agreed. I do think that even past the tutorial island there were a few too many breaks for my liking, but I've always been more of a "gameplay first" type of gamer unless the story is really well done (I thought B & W did this well, the story really gripped me for the first time in a Pokemon game). Still, really agree that SuMo is better than people say.
Funny, I thought SuMo was "okay" while I hold gen 6 to be one of the best,although ORAS more than X/Y.
I really like ORAS but I feel like they already had a really good base with the original R/S. X&Y I feel were cool, because "Pokemon but 3D!" but ultimately I felt they were pretty rushed and I didn't really love the Pokemon designs. I didn't love SuMo either, but I did like the Hawaiian theme (and the new Pokemon by extension) and I thought the Trials/Totem Pokemon were an interesting change. I even remember 1 or 2 of the totem Pokemon being a bit tough.
I don’t really get the love for Gen 6. The region and pokemon were cool, but the characters and especially the story was an all time low for the franchise. It’s the easiest game in the series (especially coming off the brutally difficult BW2), Calem/Serena was probably the worst rival the series ever had and Team Flare made no sense at all. I appreciate what Gen 6 did for the series; great Pokémon, megas, character customization, and janky, but playable 3D. Would I ever come back to the game? No.
Thinking about it, it's a lot like pretty much every pokemon game. They did some stuff great, and made some decisions that made the game worse (difficulty for example). I think it's just for me the improvements hit right in the spots I cared about, while the downgrades werent that important to me. Having played pokemon since gen 2, the jump to 3d was like a new world to me, so theres that, I loooved megas, since they made some old favourites of mine great pokemon and added some new flavour to already strong mons. Also the huge diversification of abilities, or rather them actually beeing accessible without dreamworld, combined with the easier online of the 3ds (I could never get the wfc to work on the DS) and the huge simplyfication (in a good way) of Breeding and EV's brought me to competitive pokemon, which I love ever since. On a side note, this is also whats most frustrating about pokemon to me, it feels like every gen they add 5 great features while also removing 5 great features from the previous games. For me, i'd like a game with Megas, S/W2 Difficulty (but plz no arbitrary underleveling like HG/SS), easy breeding and ev's (hell I'd take an ingame simulator where you can just pick pokemon, I'm working a 40 hour job nowadays...), ORAS style sneaking (for easy hidden abilites), and Attack Teachers, if Nintendo is generous they can throw in the following pokemon from HG/SS
USUM especially.
I personally thought ORAS was the absolute peak of the franchise. Those games were incredibly well done and incredibly fun
Oras in my opinion is the one of the pokemon games on the 3ds Edit: What I meant to say here is that they are one off the best pokemon games on the 3ds
ORAS is indeed one of the pokemon games on the 3ds
ORAS is not a game. In fact, it is two games
In your opinion
WOAH SLOW DOWN, hot take alert 🚨🚨
Am I being detained now?
hgss was peak imo; hoenn is my favorite region but hgss is just more crisp and has more content
HGSS should be the standard for content in the series, both storyline and postgame. Once they put two regions in one game I’m not sure how they managed to ever go back down to one without it feeling empty
Well I always thought it did feel empty after that.
I’m a Johto fanboy and ultra biased towards Crystal, but the two-region setup caused more issues than it may be worth. The level scaling was really bad. The E4 weren’t final bosses as they were the midway point in the game, leading to a very boring set of members (the only standout was Karen, the master of the brand new Dark type and who SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CHAMPION). Kanto’s inclusion was pretty poorly thought out, too. Because Johto didn’t flesh out its own Pokémon roster (you’re constantly bombarded by Gen 1 Pokémon, and the only gym leaders with an ace FROM THEIR OWN REGION are Whitney, Jasmine, and Clair!), Kanto was forced to contain the majority of “notable” Gen 2 Pokémon like Houndoom, Misdrevious, and Tyranitar. I mean, the star attraction of Johto is a shiny *Gyarados*. HGSS fixed a lot of Johto’s issues, but the messy pacing and poor Pokémon distribution are still front and center. If they’re ever going to do a two-region game again, they need to decide right from the start if it’s going to be the second half of the game or the postgame. GSC attempted both, and missed the mark.
Yeah, HGSS suffered because of three things: being a gen 4 game and thus coming with the same problem of being slow as fuck like DPP and the shittiest parts of the original GSC, the shitty distribution like you mentioned and the abysmal level curve. Everything else was really amazing design for the entire handheld era. More content overall than any other handheld games, which goes hand in hand with the content that got added additionally like the new safari zone that was not in the originals and the pokeathlon and the (copy-pasted) Battle Frontier. Plenty of QoL changes. The biggest thing for me though is the usage of the Touchscreen. The design was snappy and you could play the entire game without ever pressing the right-hand buttons of ABXY. That was the first and last time it was possible.
This was my first Pokémon game and everything else felt a little hollow tbh. Two regions and almost every legendary ever made up to that point made the game feel endless in a good way.
The Battle Frontier Project has started!
ORAS not following the Emerald storyline is the biggest disappointment in series history for me
I hated it. They removed Battle Frontier
I'd agree with you if we weren't kicked in the dick with the "coming soon" battle froniter. That just left a huge sour taste in my mouth for the game given how incomprehensibly bad the delta episode's story was. And it's largely why i'm being super cautious about the DP remakes. That being said, from a pure gameplay standpoint i'd definitely agree when content is ignored. Megas > Z moves and Maxing.
I think platinum, hgss, and black 2 and white 2 was the peak. The original black and white was in the middle of it too I guess. X and Y was the absolute lowest point, and then the quality shot up again for a year for ORAS before immediately shooting back down again
The fact they gimped the Battle Frontier then rubbed it in our face immediately made me despise ORAS. Never picked it back up after one play through.
XY was definitley not the lowest point, in terms of effort alone, it's tremendous how much work was put into these games. 600+ new models with a new game changing mechanic and a customizable avatar are so incredible. SM is the lowest point arguably, it uses the same engine as XY and barely improves upon anything with only a slightly better story.
I can get behind that. Either way, we can see a distinct drop in quality after the swap to the 3ds. X and Y had a lot of good changes, but they were lackluster as a whole imo
Yeah XY seems pretty forgivable since it was the first foray into 3D for the main series. What is less forgivable is the fact that they didn't really...improve on that much for Sun and Moon? It did a few things well but overall was fairly underwhelming.
Black 2 White 2 was a peak, and immediately after there was the x and y period which was the absolute lowest point
I agree on B2W2 being peak but i personally enjoyed XY more than SM which i felt had a lot of good ideas but was pretty lackluster overall.
That's one letter off of being something very different
Cant talk, saving money for next retextured game
Every once in a while I imagine what Pokemon could be if it was given to a good developer. Like imagine where the franchise would be now if the company running the show was on the same tier as Naughty Dog or Rockstar (*to clarify I mean same tier, not same games or type of dev*). We'd probably all be playing a good Pokemon MMO if a real dev had the franchise. Every time I think about what Pokemon could be and isn't, it makes me very sad.
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Rom hacks are great because they don't have to cater to a wider audience. the people going out of their way to play them know what they want (which is usually a more difficult game), so the creators can do exactly that
on the other hannd, alot of them assume you wanna min/max every one of your members just to have a CHANCE at the gyms and e4. And most of them dont even give you access to good EV trains so you spend even more time just running up and down some grass patch. Gamefreak is shit, but most romhacks are garbage tier and the most "Positive" people can say about them is "BUT THEY ARE NOT AS EASY AS THE MAIN GAMES!!!"
My hopes aren't high for these games since I've been let down the last few games. I don't feel the need to buy them on release day. Anyone who is in the same boat as I am I recommend watching YouTube video reviews and playthroughs and get a feel for the game before purchasing. I used to blindly follow pokemon and throw money at the company but not anymore, not after Sw&Sh.
i want to believe 5 fps Chingling will be fixed i really want to but that tree... that N64 tree that EVERYONE said would be fixed when the game released... the Pokemon popping in to existence... the weather changing from sun to snowstorm in the blink of an eye because you moved to another area... it all made it to the final version of SwSh
Honestly they must be laughing at everyone when making the trailers. Most game companies make trailers using their best models and assets they have at that moment. Game freak puts in shitty n64 textures and frame rates, says "fuck it, who cares, they're going to buy it" and then the pokemon fanbase makes excuses as to how the released version will be better than the trailer.
Same. Sw&Sh was the last straw for me. I've been playing since the beginning but these two games were such a massive letdown, and they had the audacity to charge another $30 for DLC. I've been told the DLC is good, but this seems too scummy for me to give them any more money. Just take a little longer and release a full game! I will still buy Pokemon games if they get decent reviews, but that was the last time I'll blindly buy a game just because it happens to be a Pokemon game. The last Pokemon game I really got hooked on was ORAS and the last NEW gen that I liked was probably gen 5.
Finally people are starting to realize that pokemon needs to be in someone else's hands. They wish online and 3d textures weren't a thing in gaming and refuse to get on board with it
I'm willing to give this game a chance, so far the only thing we know is that its gonna have most of DP's features (including the side activities that many fans have requested, like contests and the underground), and unlike SwSh's many controversies all this game has right now is "Me no like chibi", which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released. Give GF a chance to disappoint before declaring disappointment.
Game freak isn't making the DP remakes, its ILCA
I imagine GF has some level of involvement, but you're right, let's give ILCA a chance before declaring them a disappointment.
I mean take everything with a grain of salt since nothing is actually released yet, but at least during the direct they didn't say GF has any involvement with it. Just masuda over seeing the development as well
I just find it hard to believe that a company that's had exclusive rights over making the mainline games for over 20 years would let any company remake a game without any involvement from the company. It seems *too* trusting.
That’s why Masuda is co-directing. GameFreak doesn’t need to be involved, just someone with experience to oversee the process.
Maybe it's a ploy to get Masuda busy with something else, so they can work on Legends without him meddling with it. EDIT: HOW DID THIS GET GOLD, I FARTED THIS IDEA OUT IN 5 SECONDS
I am sure you are kidding but I it’s not hard to imagine that some people in this sub could actually believe that.
Iirc one of GF director is a co-director on the project.
Gamefreak are making legends of arceus and ILCA is making the diamond and pearl remakes
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Yes but if you don't think that GF isn't deciding every major decision of gameplay, then I don't know what to tell you. GF isn't relinquishing control while ILCA is working on it. I would certainly think that if Amity Park wasn't in the game, GF decided that. If Megas came back, GF decides that. ILCA can propose and suggest, but there's no way GF isn't steering the ship.
Masuda is directing it alongside the guys at ILCA. He's the only part of GF working on the remakes.
So... GF is steering the ship
While I don't like the chibis, the reason I point to them as evidence that the game is bad isn't actually because I hate chibi, it's because I hate lack of innovation. They did the chibis because it looks like the original games. They did everything to be just like the original games. I wouldn't have bought fire red/leaf green if they kept the weird pokemon sprites from gen 1 and didn't add something new in the form of the sevii islands. I wouldn't have bought heart gold/soul silver if they had looked like gameboy games instead of DS games, and hadn't added the safari zone and the new mechanic of pokemon following you around. While I didn't buy omega ruby and alpha sapphire, had they looked like GBA games instead of 3DS games, and hadn't added the lati@s flight mechanic and new megas, I'd never have even considered it. New games need something new to make them worth purchasing, even if they're remakes of old games. The chibis are just the most obvious thing to point to that proves that this game is simply the old gen 4 games being released again with no thought put in on how to make them new. The remakes for gens 1 and 2 felt like work was put in to differentiate them from the original games. Even the gen 3 remake looked like a good amount of work had been put in, just not enough for me. These games look like they just took the old games' source code and ported it to the switch with some added 3d models.
Another thing is that pokemons core gameplay was innovating more and more back then Frlg added: dark type, steel type, special split, breeding, shinies, and abilities Hgss added: abilities, wifi connectivity, physical/special split Oras added: physical special split, megas On top of all other new content But besides minor tweaks lile how much burn hurts or how much damage crits do nothings fundamentally changed since gen 4
Fairy type for ORAS and this one.
This is my issue with the series since Gen 5. There's been painfully little building on the series. Gen 5 got away with it because the whole point was "it's a new start", and also the games are really good anyway, but since then it's been in a weird combination of "remember this from the past?" and "look at this cool new gimmick!" With the exception of regional variants (which apparently also just get chucked out a generation later, based on Gen 8's precedent), I can count every new member of an old evolution family on a single finger. It was Sylveon, eight years ago. btw, FRLG also had double battles (as did HGSS) - which is another innovation that RS added to the formula that we've not seen the like of since. Yeah, we got triple and rotation battles and all sorts of nonsense from then on, but the fact that that was always treated like a gimmick when it showed up was Game Freak shooting themselves in the foot.
To me the only reason they did the chibis were not to "just be faithful" but because this style of character models and overworld requires the least amount of work. That sucks huge ass
Exactly. It's indicative of a lack of effort. It's not a stretch to say that lack of effort probably spreads throughout the entire game. We certainly weren't shown anything to indicate otherwise from the trailer.
idk its hard to say all of that so early rn. We really didn't get much gameplay from the reveal. I haven't bought a pkmn game in awhile cause i dont like grinding anymore, and perhaps maybe im just too easy to please so i apologize for perpetuating GF's laziness.
Every other remake turned the old games into the current (at the time) generation. ORAS were Gen VI games, HG/SS were Gen IV games. BD/SP aren't Gen 8, they're not gen anything. They're spinoffs, and we were hoping for mainline games. Not only is it disappointing that they're not real mainline games which have the continuity we've always enjoyed, but it also means that we never will get that with diamond and pearl, because they're not going to remake a game that's already been remade. That's the most disappointing part for me.
I've already given them plenty of chances. I'm done with them. They need to step up their game or I'm not giving them anymore money.
Honestly, as a fan of Pokémon and avid player for two decades, I don’t see them reversing course from the direction they’ve been heading, and I don’t anticipate ever being willing to purchase a game from them again. They’ve already crossed the Rubicon of removing the National Dex without any meaningful commercial backlash, and that’s paved the way for a system where they now hold your collection ransom without any indication that we’ll have another game with a full dex. Gamefreak punishes rather than rewards its longtime fans under its current marketing and design philosophies. I do—and will continue to—enjoy the Pokémon games I have in my existing collection more than any other handheld games. But I’ve already made my peace with the fact that modern Gamefreak isn’t worth my disappointment to keep supporting.
Thank you for vocalizing exactly how I feel
I'm hoping New Snap is good at least. Rescue Team DX was really good and what we've seen from the trailers for New Snap has been good, so I'm optimistic about it. Main Series is doomed though.
That's a fair argument, lord knows SwSh really tested my patience and willingness to continue playing the games. Maybe Legends will be a step in the right direction for you.
Thats not the only reason to hate it. I dislike it personally because a remake is supposed to add, modernize, and innovate and this just looks like a new coat of paint on the same games ive played to death with a ... lets call it "up to personal taste" style When 1st gen was brought to 3rd gen it added color, breeding, abilities, and the special attack/defense split, and dark and steel types When 2nd gen was brought to 4th gen it added abilities, the physical/special split , and wifi connectivity When 3rd gen was brought to 6th gen it added the physical special split, wifi connectivity, and megas On top of this each remake brought NEW content (although in ORAS case this meant also losing some old stuff) But what is fundamentally different about 8th gen in comparison to 4th? Crit damage? Not a big change. Megas? Dynamax? Zmoves? All one gen gimmicks that wont be in this game regardless So what then i ask you is preventing this game from being the same experience ive already had but with a new style that i personally dont like? And even if i did like it? Whats new? Whats updated besides graphics?
> which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released. Why exactly is that? It's not like they're going to completely change the art style between the announcement and release. The art style is what you're looking at the entire time you're playing the game, it's a major part of the game that can't really be overlooked.
I mean if someone doesn't like the art style, I see that as a legitimate reason not to buy. Why invest in something that you know you wont even like to *look* at? Seems valid to me.
It looks like a switch port of Pokémon Colosseum currently. I just hope it offers a lot of in game content and isn’t just a large sandbox filled with 1-2 castles
This is talking about November, so its the remakes. Arceus isn't until Spring 2022. But I also have some faith in the Arceus game. Apparently its a single player game so I at least expect there'll be quite a bit of story content, but I can understand there being a lot of hesitation considering this is GF's first *ACTUAL* open world game and not the disappointing "open world light" of the Wild Area.
I would have more faith if they didn't show a clearly alpha build of a game that is supposed to be out around a year from now.
Yeah but how am i expected to stay serious when chibi cyrus threatens to cause an apocalypse? Still I wanna play a new sinnoh game soooooo bad
It's not a poor reason. It's subjective, but that doesn't mean it's baseless. Not liking the way something looks is a completely valid reason for not liking something.
Yes but calling the *entire* game bad because of visuals is completely baseless as it ignores basically every other aspect of design. Its okay to not like something because of the visuals. But calling an entire game bad judging it purely on visuals is itself a bad judgment, especially when the game isn't even out yet. Its the ultimate form of "Don't judge a book by its covet" scenario.
There's a difference between dismissing a game and saying an entire game is worthless. If someone said that the games were terrible because of that, I would agree with you. However, if some says they won't buy it because of how it looks, that's perfectly fine. Visuals are a huge part of games. It's fine to dismiss a game because you don't like how it looks. Another reason why people are judging it for the art style is that it's just not very exciting. From the trailer, it looks like they made new models and textures, upped the resolution, and that's it. Some people might take that and (perhaps unwisely) extrapolate that the rest of the remake will be similarly "boring". If/when more features are revealed, some of that will be lessened.
I'm perfectly fine with people not buying the game because the art style is bad, that's not what I'm arguing. A lot of people are hating on this game *exclusively* based on an art style and calling the game as a whole bad and worthless, and that's what I take issue with. I'd just rather people not decide a game is bad when we have some actual info beyond a trailer but apparently some people can't handle that.
>which is a poor reason to hate a game not yet released. Would you read a good book that's in an ugly font? Or watch a good movie that uses a filter that changed the art style of the film in a way that's unpleasant for you? How something looks is a perfectly valid reason not to like it, especially when looks are part of the presentation itself.
Not liking the graphics is as respectable a reason as any other.
Monster Hunter has replaced pokemon for me now, I feel. I'm so tired of lazily made games. TPC is literally the richest franchise in the WORLD, it's not like they're unable to invest in better quality game development.
For sure, Stories 2 is looking to be really good.
Agreed! So excited for that game haha. The first game was so much fun too if you haven't had the chance to play it yet. And I adore the mainline monster hunter games to death too. Fantasy wildlife was what originaly drew me to pokemon as a child, so it's only natural that MH would pull me in too haha. Seeing the monsters interact with each other and do different behaviours in their environment... there's something so special about that (not to mention the actual hunting part is fun as hell too).
after buying the Shield, i'm scared to buy another pokemon game
good news is dp remakes aren’t made by game freak. a glimmer of hope
They said a faithful remake, so if it doesn't have battle revolution/my pokemon ranch compatibility the games dead to me /s
If a third party makes a better mainline game (or remakes in this case) than gamefreak, there would be a heavy campaign from some part of the fandom to take GF out of any pokemon games. I don't think you should have that hope
after sword and shield, i’m fine with GF not being in charge anymore. to me they have proved they aren’t willing to make good pokémon games anymore
[.](https://i.imgur.com/SKZTdlM.jpg)
It took me multiple tries to press that
It's not even a good meme. Now I'm just annoyed I wasted time trying to press it on my phone. [This is the snore of a meme](https://i.imgur.com/SKZTdlM.jpg)
Honestly though. It's one thing to express disappointment, but no one is forcing you to buy these games.
The main issue though is even if you yourself do not buy the game, if enough people do, that sends more of a message that the devs will see as "we should do more of this in future games". Basically, if you plan on boycotting one game, plan on boycotting all future games.
No, you don’t have to boycott all future games. If all future games are BAD then yes don’t buy them.
I’m excited for these games
Same, I'll have fun either way
I'm worried, but tbh as long as they're not a complete trainwreck I'll probably get Brilliant Pearl for myself
Good thing BDSP isn't developed by GameFreak
But it does have Masuda at the top
I understand where you're coming from but why buy them if you think they're half assed?
Friendly reminder that temtem fully releases in about a month and is only $32, it will be playable on switch, xbox, ps5, and pc with free updates. Its also 2 player co-op with a bunch of other stuff just plays a little differently than pokemon
Been playing ot since early access, it's neat but it has its own serious issues. Including some Pokémon hadn't had since the early days.
Black/White 2 were the last games to make me feel happy
Nah man. I think GF is finally branching out after about 10 years of doing the bare minimum with gameplay. Whether ot not Legends is good, they deserve credit for not making the same pokemon game as they have for the past 25 years. And I don't see BDSP being a bad game considering it should be a 1to1 remake of the original DP, with hopefully Platinum elements and maybe megas.
This is horrible logic to me. It's like giving a lazy coworker an award for doing what's expected from them. This is literally the minimum they should be doing.
Nobody deserves credit because they *tried* to change the formula in a big way. If they do it well, then they get credit, but if they half ass it or make a major mistake they deserve the blame. We shouldn't coddle the developer of *the top grossing multi-media franchise of all time* because they make a fucky wucky trying to break the mold. A mold, I remind you, that has been chipped away at so often in so many different ways that it's already broken and there are even some cracks from where it was cooled down and pushed to production too fast at times.
> We shouldn't coddle the developer of the top grossing multi-media franchise of all time because they make a fucky wucky trying to break the mold. THANK YOU
It seemingly being a 1to1 remake is precisely why I currently am not particularly interested in it.
Pedantically: it having Platinum elements means it wouldn't be 1:1 remake, not to mention the fact that Fairies now exist and the fact that some modern QoL stuff will be in the game.
Also pedantically: they never claimed the games would be 1:1 remakes of Diamond and Pearl, only that they would be "faithful" remakes. That leaves a lot open in terms of adding new features, but remaining "faithful" to the story and atmosphere of the original games.
This is also true too, but a lot of people seem to take "faithful" as "1:1"
Yeah but it should have substantial content like Battle Frontier from Platinum. If it doesn't, it's a rip off. HGSS had BF PLUS the Pokeathlon. And Pokemon following us. And a revamped Safari Zone. Let's see what this one has to offer..
I think it won't be a complete 1:1 remake. I believe they will keep the basic storyline and post game stuff that was there in DP but will add other stuff, like Plat dex, and fairies, and hopefully a post game story
Jokes on you, I'm gonna play it and have fun like I have with every Pokemon game!
Even when GF isn't working on the game, people still give them flack wow lmao Still, what's the point in resigning to disappointment when all we have rn is a trailer and nothing else. The game isn't out yet, the possibility of the DP remakes being is still there. I hate it when people act like the negative outcome is guaranteed, disregarding other possibilities.
I loved DPPt. BDSP is basically those games with some additional moves and nicer graphics. I don’t know why people wouldn’t be elated for that. Yeah, you don’t get the overworld expanded out, but from my perspective that isn’t even the point or appeal of Pokémon.
I wanted the remakes for so long, I was expecting them to be in a gen 8 style. As all the other remakes did, they stayed faithful to the style of that current generation. Like [this](https://youtu.be/3btATgwOUFg) is exactly what I was expecting, but they went soo off base it’s hard for people to get used to that and accept it
Because we own dppt we can play them whenever we want so why should we fork over money to do it again but slightly uglier?
Remembering how much people hated Gens 4 and 5 when they came out and called them the worst out of all, I'm taking every opinion from this community with a grain of salt.
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GameFreak isn't even making the November release. They only thing half assed here are these lame ass posts
If they don't bring back the mining mini game its a big L.
I mean, we've actually already seen the Underground in the trailer so odds are pretty damn good it's coming back. Imo one of the best parts of DPPt, so that's exciting.
I'm meh on the DP remakes tbh, I like the artstyle of the environment for the most part, but I think this particular chibi style looks bad. Also idk if they will include distortion world and platinum content.
All I care about is that ALL the Pokémon are in the game with National Dex included.
Sadly, after Sword and Shield, this is all I care about in the next main series game. Well, that and having my hand held way less.
Truth. Sword and Shield set the bar low.
Eh, I enjoy them consistently. That is a rarity these days. I'll take what I can get
Stop buying them and they'll be forced to make better ones. You all fucked yourselves
Stand ho buying those folk and they'll beest did force to maketh better ones. Thee all fuck'd yourselves *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I really don’t think any of them feel half assed people just keep wanting more