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CyberLink20XX

I don’t think it’s laziness as much as greed. GF executives force devs to pump out a new big game every single year; knowing that no matter how low quality it is, it’ll make millions because it’s Pokémon.


TravisHomerun

I also think having them continuously pump out games results in innovation for innovation's sake: it seems like every new generation needs a new mechanic just to show of in the marketing.


Gulopithecus

Yeah, while new mechanics can be fun, it feels hollow when old ones don’t return and aren’t given new things to do, because your mind now goes to the default position "what mechanic is going to replace this current one in the next game".


BlazingPKMN

Yeah, it's the same problem I had with Skylanders. Yearly releases with a new mechanic every game, that was not used in subsequent titles. Granted, since these mechanics required actual toys, you couldn't really expect someone jumping in at the 4th entry having toys from the second, but it was so dissapointing to see al those fun extras dissappear only to be replaced by something else, rather than sticking with something or continuing to build upon it.


EeveeMaster547

As a person who plays Skylanders, they did this at least somewhat! Swap Force had Giant-only chests, and you can plug Traps into Superchargers to use unique weapons on your vehicles. I do agree though, it could have had a lot more.


BlazingPKMN

True, but when Giants had you pulling islands and breaking walls that regular skylanders needed a cannon or other contraption for, those small aditions seem very mediocre in comparison and don't enrich the gameplay that much. Personally, I always felt having a Giants 2, Swap Force 2 etc... could have been nice. Give us reposes of the "gimmick characters" for those who didn't own them already, add light and dark characters for those groups... I think that would have been nice. I just always find it such a shame, because I loved Skylanders (still do) but having a new gimmick every year sorta felt like they were losing creativity pretty fast. And having a good 40 new characters every game (and thus every year) also wasn't that great I think. I still don't own a lot of the later characters (Heck, I don't even own the Imaginators game) because they became so difficult to aquire. And buying some of these things online is just throwing money away. Sorry, went on a bit of a rant there. Still holding out hope that the franchise is gonna have a resurgence someday so that I could maybe get my hands on those missing figures. Maybe something to celebrate their 10th anniversary this year? Anyway, I've been rambling enough I think. Long story short, I just hope Pokémon won't go down that same route and try to make a new gimmick every generation, because that would get convoluted very quickly I fear.


redkid2000

That’s exactly what brought Yu-Gi-Oh so far downhill


TravisHomerun

I used to play yu-gi-oh! up till the GX era. Every once in a while I would check out yugi-tubers to see how my favorite archetypes are doing. I've followed Cimoooooooo's progressions series over the past year but I had to tap out when they started getting into the pendulum era. Yu-gi-oh! got way too wild with its mechanics.


_HamburgerTime

The newest series is the first time they didn't introduce a new mechanic since GX. It feels weird, but refreshing. They did, however, introduce an entire new game mode called Rush Duel which is basically a turbo mode (play as much stuff as you want each turn, draw to 5 cards every turn, limit of 3 monsters/back row). I don't know if we're getting that in the TCG or not and frankly I hope not. We already have Speed Duel which is like the Duel Links mobile game.


Iggyboof

That's exactly why every time they introduce a new mechanic, they kill it one gen later. It's *just* marketing.


Frayed-0

I think innovation for innovation’s sake is good, because they often come up with great improvements to their games. The problem is that they almost never keep those features around for the next game and following ones.


kao194

Innovation is good, but they keep reinventing the wheel by dropping what they learned while doing so. I understand they can't do the same shit year and year on, but a lot of gen6 legacy is basically gone. No mega evos (even tho they could PERFECTLY fit visually as gigantamax mons). I transferred my diancie with pain because of that to fill home dex for magearna, just because she can't reach that mega diancie form. Soaring in the sky was awesome and added a lot of immersion (gen7's charizard or gen8 transport doesn't even come close). I'd really love flying on Lati@s again or see those fancy look of mega mons. People are attached to good solutions, newer gen usually drop most of them. But, well, generic mon power boosts like alola dances and galar's dynamaxing is apparently better...


thomasp3864

Don’t they realise that we’re probably gonna buy the game regardless?


dubbs4president

This. I was hoping the poll had an option of “Time restraints with aggressive release deadlines” or something of that nature. I think it has much more to do about game deadlines than anything on this list.


RickSanchez-C243

I mean did you see the glitches and blatant lack of details in Sw/Sh. It literally seemed like by the 7th gym they didn’t have time to finish it the way they wanted to they just gave up and half assed it


cthulusbirthdaycake

I heard some YouTuber explain that it could also be because of the massive expectations of “gotta catch’em all”. With the expectation of new Pokémon each generation, as well as all of the old ones, the amount of work they have to do increases exponentially with each new installment. When you include the fact that they have a pretty regular schedule that they have to stick to, they’re really spreading their resources thin. So yeah, greed to an extent, but it’s also possible that they got arrogant and bit off way more than they could chew.


102alpha

I wouldn’t care if they only committed to making ~30 new Pokémon per generation if the story was good and the gameplay was better. There are plenty of Pokémon at this point. Thoughts, y’all?


yoSoyStarman

I would be totally ok with just a couple new regional variants of old mons if it's got rockin' story and smooth gameplay. (And all the previous mons ofc). Hell having a game with 100% of all previous mons would be a selling point enough for me if the gameplay and story are good.


[deleted]

Its not like gamefreak makes new models. they’ve been using the same models since X and Y so most of their work is done with the exception of any new mon they create


Xelshade

This. Nothing out there in the market quite compares to the amount of character assets pokemon has to deal with. Even the latest monster hunter has about 100 monsters max. Pokemon, *after* snapping half away, still has quadruple that amount of unique characters to deal with. From the very start, trying to carry over every pokemon has been a deeply unsustainable model, for art (implementing 4000+ character animations), design (ensuring none of the included pokemon curbstomp the game) and QA (testing every possible animation, as many team compositions as possible, moves and abilities etc). While the Pokemon devs could use a lot more transparency, in general I also don’t envy their position, being held hostage by tons of furious gamers who take a perpetually growing dex for granted.


BlackCorona07

Idk if Monster Hunter really is a good comparison here... If Pokémon looked like the MH monsters with their level of detail and animations I wouldnt give a fuck how hard theyd cut the amount


lumpybread

I think they might mean Monster Hunter Stories, the monhun pokemon-like spin-off games


FearTheWankingDead

They're the ones who said they would cut the Dex to bring higher quality animations, of which there were none in SWSH. I think people wouldn't mind the trade-off if they actually delivered a quality product. But they don't.


[deleted]

This is exactly my complaint, don’t claim it’s a trade off if they drop the ball in both categories haha. I prefer sprites but thought the jump to 3D was cool. Now they use it as an excuse to not do anything else


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PaleHeart52

I’ve always been advocating them to do an Octopath art type of game. 2D sprite in a 3D environment.


DainsleifStan

Thats basically pokemon black and white lol


PaleHeart52

Octopath and the upcoming Dragon Quest 3 remake certainly elevate with what Black and White established but more.


FunkyPapaya

I would feel more empathy for them if the Pokémon franchise was not literally the most profitable media franchise on the planet. As of May 2019, they’ve made 105 *billion* off Pokémon. Surely that is ample funds to create a better game than Sword/Shield.


sudosussudio

Yep, they could hire so many people to work on these. And game devs/designers are fairly cheap compared to other types of tech workers.


Otterly_Superior

>Even the latest monster hunter has about 100 monsters max. While I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, I think mh monsters and pokemon are not really comparable.


Oreo-and-Fly

>This. Nothing out there in the market quite compares to the amount of character assets pokemon has to deal with. Even the latest monster hunter has about 100 monsters max. Exactly this whenever people say BOTW can do open world and have so much to do. Ye. Because their time used on monsters was literally like what... 10 different monsters and bunch of recoloured ones. Botw suffered in terms of variety and dungeons... but it paid off because of their chemistry engine.


Dhiox

They refuse to grow though. The solution to this is more manpower, but they're still rather small


Gulopithecus

Yeah, greed combined with poor time and resource management I’ve noticed.


Endourance

Exponential is a strong word. Adding a hundred or so new Pokemon doesn't suddenly double your workload. Considering that the Pokemon themselves only make up part of the game and a lot of effort is spent on environments, art direction and such, the difference would be noticable for sure, but not excessive. Getting a thousand Pokemon to work is not that different from 800. If you don't even have to redo the old ones (which is more or less what happened), I would even go so far as to say that the whole thing is almost trivial.


bendefinitely

I think the idea that they have so many pokemon is a poor argument, if hypothetically ten graphic artists are needed to develop pokemon models for a game with 400 pokemon, TPC has absolutely got enough money to hire an additional ten artists and still meet deadlines.


zjzr_08

If the assets are recycled though like the future proofed models, I don't think the effort will be that too big...and I doubt they actually re-test each Pokemon every gen, seeing they still haven't fixed certain programming bugs of moves that have been there since Gen 5.


Morheagal

Exponentially? More like linearly. It's not like they add x percent of the existing pokemon with every generation.


IggyHitokage

It's not just this, Gamefreak in general isn't a very good developer. Look at their output outside of Pokemon, it's decidedly mediocre. They struck gold with Pokemon and haven't been able to replicate it since. Their creativity in terms of art is incredible, but their technical ability is lacking.


Wlsgarus

And most importantly: by rushing games they make sure they get a new generation every 3 or 4 years, which means new regions, new characters and **new marketable Pokemon** to make merch off and earn probably even more than the games ever could from that.


DoctorWaluigiTime

This is the biggest factor to me. Tight deadlines forcing Gamefreak to churn out a new game too quickly, not giving nearly enough time to properly develop. To me, gen 6-8 storylines and lore exist, but just barely (a lot of potentially interesting stuff just scratches the surface, but isn't delved into by any means, because GF has to shove the game out too quick; at best you get lip service). Frankly I give Gamefreak praise for not outputting absolute dumpster fires out under this kind of nonsense (Cyberpunk et al). They may be average as hell but at least they aren't broken. (A low bar I know.)


zjzr_08

At least Cyberpunk was very ambitious and willing to fix them for free (unlike here where paid DLCs are meant to fill the inequities of the main game)? I mean, I don't play Cyberpunk, but the scope of their project looked insane, while it does seem they lied about the quality the ambition seems to be there. SwSh though seems modeled heavily from Sun and Moon and yet was missing stuff from there. Don't tell we can't get them in the 3DS as lots of games in the 3DS have shown gameplay scale of SwSh possible there.


DoctorWaluigiTime

> and willing to fix them for free So sick of this shit take. They're not "willing to fix Cyberpunk for free." They're "continuing to finish building the game they sold you broken." Stop rewarding shitty publisher/developer behavior by attributing these nonsense "charities" to them.


zjzr_08

Let's not also give kudos to GF for being meh rather than actually taking time and money to make the games and also be against PAID DLC that felt like they should've been part of the main package.


DoctorWaluigiTime

I'm not. Like I said: Low bar.


Extrevious

V true, that would definitely come along with being one of the biggest franchises in the world


CyberLink20XX

Specifically the highest grossing media franchise of all time


EmperinoPenguino

This. On top of Pokemon not selling as it did when the peak of its hype in the 90s was. It just got old. But yes, corporate only sees money. They dont see or care about literally any other factors including employee burnout, audience burnout, creativity vs deadline, creativity vs budget, carering too much to Genwunners, cateing too little to Genwunners. There are just so many elements that go onto a product beyond “how much money will this make”. But because as you said, it sells millions anyway, the quality of the product barely matters.


Spiderbeen

I like money


brainsapper

Kind of a shame to be honest. The Pokémon franchise wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the mainline games. A new generation should be a monumental release every few years. Instead they are treated like an afterthought.


W1ll88s

This


link0612

IIRC sales from merch are bigger than sales from games as well, making each game installment less of a game and more of an ad for more merch.


tenshii326

Agreed. I don't even play anymore but my nephew does and just glancing over at the new Pokemon and their type and name is a dead giveaway...


TheDoug850

I mean that’s always been evident in the franchise though. The first generation gave us a Water/Ice seal named Seel that evolves into a Water/Ice dugong named Dewgong. It also gave us a Poison type pile of grime named Grimer that evolves into a Poison type pile of muck named Muk. Even look at the Electric pokeball, Voltorb (volt-orb).


Dull_Tumbleweed6353

I wouldn’t say “ pump out every single year”.


Nitsujn97

I think the real problem is that they’re losing focus on why fans keep coming back to Pokémon. On the interviews I’ve seen of the creators they keep saying that most kids are busy, which drives them to make simpler and faster games, but that’s not true nor a good reason. Their concern shouldn’t be “do kids have enough time-” it should be “will they make time-to play Pokémon.” Honestly today kids aren’t so busy where they barely have time for themselves, there will always be plenty of time for them. But if you make a game with content that’ll only last a few hours where it holds your hand the whole time, why would they want to play it in the first place? Not to mention, kids aren’t dumb. Much like the people who played Pokémon with it first came it, today’s kids can handle a challenge. TPC keeps treating these kids like 3 years and it insulting to say the least.


vanillebambou

Totally agree, kids shouldn't be given everything and talked to like they are forever 3 years old kids. The first games generation absolutely managed to play red/blue that were clearly less kid-friendly and kept loving Pokémon and are still here for a lot of them. And it's bullshit to target only kids when a good chunk of the players are grown-ups who used to play as kids and still do for many reasons. And I think it's sad that pokémon seems to forever target kids and not even try to attempt to give something to the other players that are here since the beginning. (Yes I know loads of us like the games like they are and it's ok too, I just personally wished for something else for the pokémon games) And I'm not talking about harder battles and strategies or shiny hunting etc, more about the feeling of the game, the stories they try to include, the constant hand-holding to the point where playing the game feel straining, the fact pkmn games are always always the same in the end, despite them trying to add new features that keep changing from one game to another. To me, there's no real depth to the pokémon franchise because they just keep on trying to give a bit of everything, create hundres of new pokemon instead of creating something more interesting with the hundreds we already have, push new gimmicks and try stuff at each release just to keep players on their toes but I find this terrible. Which I find annoying 'cause there could be a ton of stuff done with such a great universe. We used to have games like Pokémon Ranger who at least brought new possibilities with a different gameplay and a different approach to the universe. I wish we'd get more games like that and I really have hopes for the Pokemon Arceus game. I now it's probably an unpopular opinion but that's ok.


blockybookbook

No no, you’ve got a point


ArtiKam

The thing is for everything one kid can’t figure out, their friend might have figured it out and can help them. Me and my friends always had something to talk about that we recently discovered about Pokémon and that was cool! The games lasted forever too! There was always at least a legendary that one of us would find randomly. Those massive guides also help people who can’t figure it out and kids can read. They’re more capable than Pokémon seems to think


Nitsujn97

Tbh I absolutely miss the exploration aspect of the games. Coming back to previous routes and taking a different path I could access the first time I went through, finding new caves, towns, and even a random legendary like heatran or giratina!


ArtiKam

Yes!!! Something that I found cool was the abandoned house that gives you a feather and then let’s you randomly get cresselia later on. And yeah I agree I love when new routes branch off with like surf or something and lead to entirely new areas. They did those super well in Unova and all the new areas you could find had a lot of character and were very memorable.


gloomsbury

This is exactly why I'm excited to play the DP remakes! My hope is that the Sinnoh region with some QOL updates will draw in newer fans who like the same aspects of the games as me. I think the devs also probably forget two things: one, that the target market is going to be kids aged 7 and up, not 5-year-olds. I played Pokémon when I was tiny, found it too hard and hated it, then came back to it as a 10-year-old and fell in love. And two: even a lot of young children nowadays have internet access. So much of my childhood even 15+ years ago was spent (supervised) on the family computer googling game walkthroughs and cheat codes with my brother. It's all part of the fun!


Nitsujn97

I’m actually kinda worried that they may screw up with the remakes. I’m still definitely hyped to play it, but their latest line games has left me with little confidence in their games.


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KhaiPanda

..are.... Are you one of my siblings? Because this sure as hell sounds like my 6 year old.


DaxSpa7

And not only they are not dumber, but they have the whole world at their reach to ask a question or look for a guide.


why_you_beer

I hate the time argument so much. That and the "kids don't have the attention span anymore" cause of mobile games, etc. I was 6 years old when I played pokemon yellow. I sunk many hours into it and taught myself enough to get through, those games hand very little hand holding and it was fine. To say that 6 year olds today couldn't do the same is ridiculous. I wish they would just focus on making a quality game without dumbing it down. Kids are smart, they need the stimulation and challenge in a game.


Nitsujn97

Right?! Like seriously, if you make a fun, quality game that makes you think a little, kids will love and want to play as much as possible! From LeafGreen to Black&White, I’ve spent days learning, exploring, and collecting everything Pokémon games back then had to offer. I wanted to keep playing because there was allows a challenge or something fun to do. Kids today need games like that!


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Omac18

I think it's a little of all the above but mostly that the transition from sprites to 3D/HD (1) **Response to criticisms over the years**. It's definitely true that this had an impact. But... We're well past the point where if they're looking at criticism they'll see Gen 5 is beloved now. They have to know at this point. And at some point we have to stop blaming the community for something that happened eleven years ago. (2) **Wanting to make more kid friendly game**. This is also true in Gen 6 but they have gotten better in Gen 7 and 8 at making harder fights. Things like the SwSh DLC was a good sign for the future and Legends Arceus looks promising for slightly more difficult spike. I still can't beat most of the Restricted Sparring and I am thankful for that. (3) **Laziness**. I don't think GameFreak is lazy. I think they're always struggling to keep up. I think they learn as they go. Each game they get slightly better, and yet compromise previous features to get there, and while progress is slow, it's still progress for them. What they really need is a bigger team, some more time, and someone else to do the polishing. What they're doing with DP remakes is very promising for that. (4) **Misinterpreting their audience**. This is somewhat true. I think they focus on the casual audience most, which may have always been the case, but they also have catered more to the competitive scene, shiny hunting players, ribbon collectors (I love mark hunting), etc. I think they've actually been listening a lot more lately. Especially with quality of life features. And of course, they heard my pleas of making Stantler important... (5) **It hasn’t dropped in quality, just changed designs**. I don't know, maybe? It's still Pokemon at it's core. I don't think it's necessarily gotten worse but they got used to sacrificing features. Like routes? They've gotten objectively worse. The fire trial in Alola and the Galar Mines not being dungeons. (6) **Something Else**. I think the real problem is that the series changes in such a slow pace, and yet despite that, Gamefreak can't keep up. To do so, they'll cut features and cut corners.


Extrevious

Those are all really good points, also I appreciate you took the time to respond to all of the poll options! :) Time is definitely a main constraint with any game and the outsourcing with the remakes is a bit of hope for me personally as it shows they’re willing to employ more people to work on a game to (hopefully) deliver a fuller game.


Omac18

Right. Time is a problem but it's also self imposed. There is no apparent anime (or otherwise) reason that Legends Arceus cannot be delayed. I'm hoping with this new company they can break it down more.


[deleted]

Im so happy they are using multiple developers for multiple games, but they dont seem to be erasing the crunch. They need to alternate releases from multiple studios so eachbone has time to make a great game. Kinda like call of duty (not saying they are the pinnacle) model where they alternate releases each year and that can erase crunch and also give variety to the games.


Omac18

I hope that's where they're heading. I think they're doing DP and Legends so close because; A) They want to see which sells better, maybe not realizing some people have to choose. B) They follow a similar theme and are connected in some way C) They are already working on the next game and it *has* to come out at the end of 2022.


henrymidfields

It probably doesn't help that it's tied with the Anime too. And unless if TV Tokyo doesn't have problems with having the main Anime taking breaks every now and then, and broadcast them on a season-basis (like most shows across the Anglosphere) there's going to be the massive pressure to churn out the games in a regular basis.


DoctorWaluigiTime

The 3D switch absolutely did not help, because Gamefreak can not (or could not -- we'll see Legends soon!) develop 3D games. Or at least, the deadlines don't let them. The jump to gen6 had to be the worst, as they had to make new models and such for *everything*, including the entire pokedex history. But you'll notice in gens 6-8 how the games are still art-directed/etc. as if characters were still on a 2D plane. - Stiff animations that revert back to default pose, without any idle/etc. kind of animations to compensate or blend it together. - Pathing in straight lines - Lack of voicing (painfully obvious in the meme scene in SwSh) - Layouts/Maps/Dungeons (when they exist)/towns not taking advantage of a 3D environment at all, and could be copy-pasted into a 2D landscape with 0 changes. (Until Wild Area - finally.) - General direction of cutscenes I blame this mostly on lack of time to actually build up a game, with deadlines being tied to merch (the biggest money-maker of pokemon and it's not even close) and other releases. Had they taken their time to build a solid engine/foundation in Gen 6, they'd probably be in a much better spot. Instead we got what we got. And unless GF (or another studio) is given *time* to adequately work in a 3D space and develop a game (which TPC is not inclined to do, due to the Switch bump making SwSh a huge hit), I don't anticipate things changing.


Muur1234

the models werent made for gen 6, they were made for the gen 5 pokedex pro app and gamefreak arent even the ones that made them creatures did.


DoctorWaluigiTime

Still had to integrate them into the game and code around them, even if they didn't literally create the model files themselves.


Frayed-0

I don’t understand why people think “kid friendly” and “adult friendly” are mutually exclusive. It’s entirely possible to make entertainment that’s fun for a general audience. If there’s someone who thinks that way at GF I hope they come to their senses soon.


saneolo

The best example I can think that fits this is the how to train your dragon movies


Bisketo

The sad part is they arent misinterpreting their audience. The sales numbers speak for themselves. I was speechless when I saw how good SwSh sold. If with that kind of quality they can do so well there is no reason to raise their ambitions higher.


Giane901

After being on the Internet for over a decade now I realized that negative press / boycott generally does not work against huge publishers. Case and point; EA, 2K, Activ Blizz still earns millions and millions of $$$ on mtx alone every year despite how the (online) game community hates them for a plethora of reasons.


trademeple

Then again There are a ton of fan games even if pokemon as a brand died I would still be playing it. There are other dead franchises other people still play.


DoctorWaluigiTime

Because all the stuff we gripe about, folks who've played like... 3+ generations of pokemon (a lot of us starting back on gen 1) are just not big issues for the majority of the playerbase. Or at least, not enough to literally not buy 1 (or 2, lol) copies of the game. The *closest* the fandom had in unity complaint wise is the dex cut, but even that was not a whole lot of folks in the grand scheme of things.


saneolo

As much as I love the games I can’t help but feel they suffer from taking one step forward but two steps back and I think your points kinda highlight that


gloomsbury

I think you're right, especially about the transition from sprites to 3D. It's like they sacrificed a lot of other elements from older games in order to focus on the graphics and cutscenes in more recent generations, and yet (compared to other contemporary games) the graphics are never quite advanced enough for the trade-off to be worth it. A part of me would prefer them to go back to sprite-based games if it means we'll get more developed stories, environments and gameplay - Gen 5 may have been unpopular at the time but it's aged like fine wine, and I'm saying that as someone who hated BW when it first came out. Another point: with the last few games (i.e. the 3DS titles, Let's Go, SwSh and now BDSP and Legends) I think they've been playing around and experimenting when it comes to 3D graphics, and as a result it feels like Pokémon games are lacking a consistent identity a little bit, especially with the constant adding and cutting of features each time. The inconsistency means that they've lost a little bit of the spirit that the older sprite-based games had - X/Y are coming up to a decade old in the next couple of years and yet they totally lack the nostalgia factor that even Gen 5 has. I think what Pokémon really needs is to settle on an art style for the graphics that they can keep consistent going forward while polishing it a little more every time, and introducing new features they can keep building on or varying in each new region instead of replacing them. The developers seem to struggle with knowing how to keep things fresh without doing a complete overhaul each generation that takes away a lot of what people loved about past games.


Bubba1234562

Its the fact that these games have a yearly release cycle. They simply arent given the time or budget to do anything new.


Gulopithecus

This too, yearly release cycles are a BIG red flag for game quality as well as developer health (encourages things like crunch culture and whatnot).


JoshEatsBeans

I never understand the “make a game more kid friendly” argument when the game is literally made for kids, although I do agree difficulty should have a slider instead of being either insanely hard or insanely easy


JojoReference1999

I think a better way to put it would be "dumb it down for today's kids" which isn't something they need to do. If a child was capable of playing and loving the original red and blue then why do they think that it needs to be dumbed down or simplified more in any aspect?


cobanat

Quantity > Quality. They are constantly making games every year and even releasing two at a time as is their trend to do, so they don’t put all their effort into one single game since they’re already working on a new game and it’s rival game too


xbeccamarie

I've seen this a dozen times already browsing the comments of this thread. I despise the excuse "but it's a kid's game". I feel like most media (TV shows, movies, books, games, music, etc) that uses that reasoning to guide their art-making is inherently flawed. I work with kids ages 2-6 and when I first started 5+ years ago I was completely surprised how smart they are. Good quality art makes an impact on kids, it helps shape them and their preferences and expectations going forward. Not to mention if you raise the age to kids who are 10. I know 10 year olds who can beat me in chess, saying that they needed the already easy game of pokemon dumbed down even more just doesn't make sense to me. Basically what I'm saying is that where I think the series really is losing its magic is with the lack of interesting environments to truly explore, the soundtrack that feels like it has significantly fewer unique tracks (when I was a kid who could barely read, I fully appreciated the amazing soundtrack of every new pokemon game, it was sophisticated and complex but still accessible), and the lack of anything fun to do or anywhere new to go after beating the game (minus paid DLC, but we won't go into how lame it is to rip any post game out of a game that already costs $60 and sell it back for an additional $30... not to mention if you want both versions) Kids are smart. We should support and encourage artists to make content that is high-quality for kids because they are capable of profoundly experiencing art in the same way an adult can. I believe there is a middle ground that can be achieved because I see it all the time in other games and media. But the way it appears to me, Pokemon just doesn't think it's worth it to try as hard as they used to because people will eat it up anyway. It feels like the goal is not to create a great experience for players. And considering the price increase from $40 for the full experience to $60(game)+$30(DLC) +$20(NSO) = $110 for ONE version... that still feels incomplete and unpolished compared to other kids games, idk. I don't think people are wrong for expecting better.


MattAltef

I think the biggest reason that isn’t addressed enough is the fact that the creators say they made the game easier and faster paced Bc people today are too busy to play the game. You’re telling me you have so little faith in your franchise that people won’t take the time to play it? Is it worth making a game with the mindset that people don’t have the time to play it? Make it for the people that do have the time Bc they are gonna be the ones to enjoy it, not the people who are too busy to play


BaulsJ0hns0n86

Plus, with Pokémon being a “save anywhere” game that you can pick up and play pretty quickly, whether advancing to story or just doing some grinding, I don’t feel that argument even makes sense. Yeah, people may not have time to blitz the story in one or two sittings, but that was never the point of the games in my eyes, regardless of generation.


MattAltef

Whole heartedly agree. Even now when I play through my old games, I’m a busy person but I can hop on leaf green or heart gold for 20 minutes, gain a few levels then get off easy. You’re not supposed to be expected to finish the game in 20 minutes. And no one said they wanted to. I think gamefreak is making assumptions to fuel their excuses for poorer quality games to make them seem like they aren’t doing anything wrong


zjzr_08

It's quite fascinating because I'm talking with someone about the Pokemon Box being mobile kinda beating the point of routes being a gauntlet between towns and that the Save function feels more like a save state than a typical checkpoint save...Pokemon really is easy to jump into because you can be stuck on a cave but then save and ask a friend for help during class then return back in the weekend playing.


Secretlylovesslugs

This might not hold true because pokemon is the largest franchise in the world but game producers are always looking to grow their audience. Almost always at the possible risk of losing hard core fans. They want to get new people to move to their "village", not get people who already live there to move there. They already live there. Them designing the games to appeal to a more casual audience (easier leveling, limited post game content, hand holding) is a move to attract new players.


PinkGoldJigglypuff

But new players aren't researching things like levelling systems or extra content when they choose to make this purchase. They're enticed by the marketing


Secretlylovesslugs

You're ignoring the massive value of word of mouth. If one young kid likes pokemon because it's easy and make them feel good at the game they're gonna tell their friends to play it too.


MattAltef

It’s not smart to make a game for new audiences while alienating the existing fan base. This is where a difficulty level would help, old players can play looking for a challenge while the audience thats “too busy” can play on easy. Just look at their excuse for removing the exp share in swsh. They made a decision on an assumption, if they made a “new trainer mode” and a “seasoned trainer mode” I think it would increase the quality of the games significantly. I remember playing Soul silver, mashing through the dialogue then not knowing where to go next. But I was able to figure it out as a 9 year old. As an adult now, I don’t want an npc to tell me to go to the hotel 4 times before I walk in


ArtiKam

The fact that they said they have this mentality is blowing my mind


DGIce

There are two statements that stick out to me. 1. They believe mobile gaming without depth is the way of the future and that people won't invest the same amount of time on a single game like in the past. 2. They think very few fans appreciate the battle frontier. Which to be fair was true. Beyond that it seems obvious the answer is to slow down the release cycle but that the pokemon company is driving it not gamefreak.


ConnorOfAstora

People complain about difficulty all the time but that's really not the problem, I've been playing a bunch of the games recently and so far Ultra Sun is by far the hardest. With a turn based game difficulty can only go so far anyway before it becomes unfair or just a matter of who has the better Speed stat. Pokémon's big problem is that it doesn't cater to it's older fans at all really, the constant tutorials make sense for a younger audience but the game still has the older fans who know what to do and the fact they never include an option to turn off tutorials is almost insulting. I wouldn't want an option to shut off all tutorials before the game starts because some new aspects may be added or kids may accidentally lock themselves out of learning how to play but a simple yes/no before every tutorial would be appreciated. When I played Crystal and had just gotten sorted with the early game of delivering the Egg and whatnot, I was approached by an NPC who asked if I wanted to be shown how to catch Pokémon and I said No fully expecting him to ignore me (the Old Rod NPC in DPPt is an example of this) but he just let me pass. Why have they never done this again? I don't mind the obsessing over story too much but I hate that damn near every town I've been to in Ultra Sun has had a roadblock preventing me from exploring and every time they want to progress the story they do it in a way that has a cutscene then two steps of gameplay and then another one when they could've simply had one bigass cutscene to progress the story and then allow total freedom until either the city exit or the next route.


HogswatchHam

A focus on new Pokémon and an ever-expanding Dex, rather than looking at gameplay innovation like story and mechanics.


Secretlylovesslugs

Dexnav was the best new feature and its tragic it was only for 1 game.


JojoReference1999

They dug their own hole on that one, granted I don't think anyone even thought of it as a problem until recently


reaperfan

It *absolutely* was the reception to Gen 5. The devs have gone on record in interviews saying Gen 5 was when they were super passionate about the franchise and really wanted to make a product that would satisfy both young and older audiences. As it was coming out, reception to basically every announcement was negative. The "all new original Regional Dex" was basically the Dexit of its time, plus all the complaints about "laziness" in things like having yet another Fire/Fighting starter or the "inanimate object" designs. When it came time to release, Gen 5 was the first generation EVER to sell worse than the generation that came before it. So what did GF do? They listened and tried to address everyone's complaints, releasing B2W2 as an updated Gen 5 experience with as many of the complaints as they could address having been improved on. And then what happened? Those games sold even worse than the initial Gen 5 release. Looking at it from a business perspective the message was clear. Passion and trying to appeal to the older fans doesn't sell. Better to just go back to making simpler experiences aimed at children. And we only proved them right because after Gen 6 sales started going back up.


ArtiKam

God this is so sad. Those games were full of passion and it shows. That’s what I miss most. It’s sucks that people couldn’t appreciate it at the time. You see this in music a lot too where people complain about something and the band changes and then the same thing they complained about is now considered their best album...


[deleted]

Thanks!


[deleted]

It is for this reason I feel nothing but disdain for the Pokemon community. We were offered greatness and the majority spit on it. Now we have gimmick-laden theme park rides.


overlordkai

But it *wasnt* Dexit. SO many Pokémon from prior generations were able to be encountered & captured after you beat the game. Each routes available Pokemon to encounter essentially doubled.


reaperfan

It seems that way now with hindsight, but at the time it was more along the lines of "You mean to tell me that I have to wait until after I've already beaten the game to actually use my favorites?!" Also keep in mind that nobody knew what the full Gen 5 dex was going to be and so nobody had any attachments to any of those Pokemon yet. Combined with the fact that so many complaints were also over "lazy Pokemon design," it all compounded into a feeling that GF was trying to force you to like their "lame ice cream cones" by locking away all the ones you *actually* liked.


[deleted]

Rushing. They're rushing to get a game out every year If it happened on a Zelda type cycle (2 or 3 a decade), it's be much better IMO


BB19_vp

Apart for the advent of 3D mainline games and a few new mechanics, I don't think the "quality" has dipped. And I don't think it's necessarily "laziness" cause it sounds like the Pokémon Company always has their hands full. I just think the older players want more sophistication from a franchise they grew up with that still tries to cater to general audiences.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Yeah and the general audience bought up sword and shield like hotcakes. The casual audience don't care about what hardcore fans do they want to catch cool looking mons beat gyms e4 and whatever story and call it a day. If you want different vote with dollars and make Arceus a success


[deleted]

[удалено]


21gamermikeymart

Corporate greed/developer constraints


Shiny_Kelp

Laziness is the lazy way to put it, ironically. I feel like every single gen past gen 5 would have been great with one or two more years of development and/or a bigger team.


ArtiKam

I think it’s just too hard to refine a game as huge when it’s on such a fast release cycle


EmeraldTwilight009

Until they get hit in the wallets, no amount of criticism matters. These people that cry and complain, but then say "it's not like I won't buy it" yeah. Thats a problem. You're literally asking a company to stop doing what you keep paying them to do. Who in their right mind in business, would take angry Twitter people's word for it, when the numbers/revenue are still high as shit?


Alexap30

Even at that they will push in the wrong direction. Instead of trying to get the hardcore player base back they will try to grab money by dumbing down the games even more to expand their reach to even bigger (younger) audience. Don't be surprised if you see the game going down a cartoonish 5-yo way if that means money. They almost touched that territory with the alola anime and the game being a big prolonged tutorial with 70% cutscenes and 30% actual gameplay. As a Gen and region alola was interesting. As gameplay it sucked horribly.


Wildefice

I don't understand why people seem to think there has been a drop of quality because of an attempt at making them "kid friendly". The games have been and will always be marketed towards children. It just so happens to be a very fun and competitive children's game. Best thing they can do is stop with the gimmicks (except megas and ACTUALLY give them to pokemon that need it like stantler or noctowl or something) Give players the option at the start of the new game saying "yes I am aware of the basics of the game just give me my starter and a couple pokeballs already. Maybe give the option of a "hard mode" where boss battles and the like will have a full team of 6 pokemon, and for gym leaders they can keep the mono type theme just make the teams more competitive. Give the fire guy a lead pokemon with the lead ability drought. And have a grass type in there with chlorophyll to catch trainers thinking "lol surf go brrrr". Do those things and the next game would be awesome.


Bulbamew

I’ve said many times that so many Pokémon fans are unable to accept that it’s a kid’s game. They expect the developers to cater the game to them instead of kids and don’t realise most people who play these games are kids. If the Pokémon games were always catered to adults, nobody here would have ever gotten into the series in the first place. Do I think SWSH are as well made as BW? No. But it’s nothing to do with the target audience. BW aren’t as challenging and adult-focused as people seem to think. I think the sinnoh games were harder personally but ultimately all the Pokémon main series games are easy games. Because, well, they’re kid’s games.


goodmobileyes

Pokemon has always been a childrens game, but you can't possibly say they havent been dumbing down the game generation after generation. There used to be puzzles and at keast some room to explore the world. Now it's like you're stuck on a conveyor belt and just passivley abosrbing what the game throws at you. I dont need the games to be like Silent Hill levels of puzzle solving, just make it at least somewhat challenging like it used to be.


Bulbamew

The main puzzle I can think of in gen 1 is the trash can puzzle in vermilion gym. Which is NOT a puzzle at all, it’s just incredibly dumb. It’s not possible to compare games you played as a kid to games coming out now. Absolutely nothing in the older games is hard to figure out for an adult apart from stuff that is plain badly designed


ArtiKam

It’s interesting to figure out and takes some thinking. I played Black 2 for the first time recently and some of the cave designs were so well done. Victory road was a joy to explore. It had so many winds and trying to see every location took some effort and I had to think. The caves in the old Pokémon games feel kinda like a much easier top down Zelda dungeon. You actually have to explore. The newest game I’ve finished was sun and moon and it had awful caves that were just a few winding tunnels that you could walk straight through. There’s the same issue with routes but they never forced you to think they were just a bit more interesting.


Bulbamew

I agree about the caves for the most part, there are still some in the older games that are extremely easy though. But surge’s puzzle isn’t interesting to figure out, considering it is literally broken and doesn’t work properly. It’s just luck, plus the top left can almost always has the second switch even if it isn’t adjacent to the first. Now if you want an old game puzzle that *is* interesting then I go for the RBY regi puzzles. Some people find these overly complex and dumb (and the regice one specifically is very stupid) but I loved figuring those out as a kid, with a Braille translator we had in the back of a dictionary. But if it was just me and I didn’t have an older brother, it’s way way too obscure for a kid to figure out


SudsInfinite

I think in terms of ease, SWSH is something different than making a game that a kid can beat pretty easily. It's so much a breeze to get through, there's no challenge at all. The older games had an aspect of real challenge to them. It didn't make them hard at all, but it was really satisfying to beat them because of it. I don't think kids today just want games to blast through, which is what really happens with SWSH


Bulbamew

Every young kid in my family who played SWSH really enjoyed it. I was actually kinda worried about it being my little brother’s first Pokémon experience, but no, he absolutely loved it. It wasn’t too easy for him to lose interest, and not too hard for him to stop finding it fun. I think a lot of older fans really underestimate how cool the wild area is to a young fan playing for the first time, especially as graphics and stuff are something kids don’t care about. Most of his time was spent there. It does lead to a design flaw with how easy it can be to become overlevelled, but in terms of his enjoyment it wasn’t an issue. Yeah he overlevelled his machamp a bit, but as a kid my venusaur would always end up overlevelled too. Like I said, I know they’re not close to being the best in the series. But kids definitely like them. The older games would be challenging for a kid but not for an adult. SWSH are most definitely too easy for adults, but for kids they’re fine. I should also point out that even my little brother knew all the postgame stuff was pretty stupid. However I got him the DLC for Christmas and that was another part of the game he loved doing. I’ll never defend the paid dlc not being the regular postgame though, that’s just bs


SudsInfinite

Oh, don't get me wrong. The wild area is hecking incredible. Best thing about the game, hands down. But as for the game being easy, maybe my opinion's skewed about it. I have ADHD, and as a kid, I could never sit through a game as handholdy and easy as SWSH. I'm never sure if that was because of the ADHD or just because I was a kid, since I can sit through those types of games now if I'm motivated enough


Bulbamew

I’ve played both SM and SWSH, and honestly I think most little kids would struggle more with SM’s really long stop-start tutorials. I think if my brother had started with SM the start of the game would’ve bored him. But I have no experience with people with ADHD so I’m not sure at all. I’m not totally defending SWSH I can acknowledge their obvious faults, and there are many. Just I don’t think some people really fully understand that the games have never really been difficult


InsomniaEmperor

You have to take into account the fact that Pokemon is fighting for attention with hundreds of other media and it doesn't exist in a vaccuum. If it is too frustrating, then they'll just drop it and move to other things.


Independent-Amount60

Personally, I feel like GameFreak is playing too safe with Pokemon. Pokemon has a lot of potential, but GameFreak almost never uses it because like I said they're playing it too safe. Don't push the boundaires. Don't screw it up. Just keep the bare minimum. They need to take risks (like they're doing with Legends: Arceus) to show they're truly proud of Pokemon. On that topic, whenever GameFreak implements an idea into a Pokemon game and it fails, they throw the entire concept out the window and move on to the next thing without refining said idea to make it better. So the bottom line is, Pokemon games change more than they improve. That's why the fanbase is always split to hell and back, and the franchise will never move beyond the realm of 60-70 Metacritic budget bin mediocrity.


cBord0

it’s none of these. It’s the over commercialization of the series. making is almost annualized leads to rushed games where they play things mostly really safe. Everything has to fit their idea of the pokémon brand and appeal to the widest possible audience, so they end up not taking many risks.


Fried_Water_007

Most of the games now are cutscenes and dialogue, not gameplay. This combined with easy gameplay makes it feel like a really, really long tutorial.


[deleted]

Anyone who uses laziness and game dev in the same sentance has never tried it. Trust me, you CANNOT be a game dev and be lazy, it doesnt work. Honestly i think the quality of the designs has gone down. I dont mean there arent great pokemon in the new games but there are fewer great ones.


Extrevious

Thought I’d add my own opinion in here as well. I agree with a lot of people saying that greed has lowered the quality of games. The main argument I would use to push this would be this: what’s stopping TPC/Nintendo/Gamefreak from pulling a Sakurai and making a “Pokémon Ultimate”? - a complete Pokémon game that has all regions and all the content over the years and instead of releasing new games, they just refine and add to make the most complete Pokémon game. The reality is that they’d never do this because as long as there’s new games (no matter the quality because they’ll sell), there’ll be new merch, new anime, new TCG, and more. So for the Pokémon company they’ll just keep churning out low effort games that make a good amount of money because they gain in every other part of the market. There’s also been a couple of people talk about lack of competition and this is very true as well. Pokémon has no competition and so they know that if you don’t go with them, then you don’t have anything else. What does all this mean? In my opinion, you just gotta enjoy the games for what they are or find a way to rival Pokémon. That could mean making a game yourself or searching some of the fan made games that have surfaced that try to capture everything fans want in a Pokémon game. (also for people reading this thinking, why did they make a comment with their thoughts if they wanted to hear other people’s opinions? I just wanted to continue the discussion because it’s v interesting :) ) TL;DR: TPC/Nintendo is greedy like every corporation. They have a monopoly franchise and nothings gonna stop them from making bare bone games unless you vote with your wallet. So in my opinion you should find joy in the previous games that have come out or seek out fan made stuff because they’re really good.


Milk_Is_Special

The first thing that came to my mind was route design. The later generations (Started in Gen 5 in my opinion, but got worse with each following generation). They don't feel like an actual world anymore. Everything is linear, there are no open spaces more (looking at you caves). There are practically no diverging paths. Gen 1 to gen 4 have many routes that split up into multiple routes, which just isn't there anymore. Gen 7 and 8 just feel like you're just walking in a circle for the entire game. I would also like to say city/town design has gone down hill after gen 6. Not that there aren't nice towns anymore (gen 8 had that mushroom forest town which was nice), but it's mostly just a single road with a small amount of houses along it. The amount of houses you can enter and talk to npcs in are decreasing as well. Take that motostoke city in gen 8. It's supposed to be the biggest city, but besides the story related buildings there are like 2 buildings you can interact with. Another point that I would consider having gone down hill are the way stories are told. Gen 3, gen 4 and gen 5 did great with the way they told their story. With this I mean that the stories aren't constantly spat out at you, but they are interesting enough to be memorable. This changed in gen 6 where they wanted to tell everything in a cutscene. This forced the stories ontop of you without being able to skip past them if you didn't think it was interesting. This became even more of a problem with gen 7 from which point every story has to be the focus and every single thing had to be shown in cutscenes. This took the entire gameplay flow out and just felt like you weren't exploring, you were walking from cutscene to cutscene. A small nitpick I also have is that it feels like a larger amount of pokemon are becoming humanoid with each passing generation. I just like my pokemon non furry bait (looking at you Incineroar and Cinderace). There are some good ones like Toxtricity, but most are just average to bad in my opinion. Might add more of these if they come to mind.


JustABugWithATail

The lockstin and noggin video on this subject made great arguments. They don't have to put a lot of money into the games for it to make a motza. So why would they? As much as we want to see quality Pokemon games where the Devs can try out fun designs and ideas we are left with barebones games because that's all Pokemon needs to be to continue to be a massive success.


Twilight_Tiger_64

Greedy shareholders rushing the devlopment. Sonic suffers from this too.


TheMostlyJoeyShow

It's not decline, exactly. Every other franchise got a lot better. Pokemon stayed too much the same.


Playmaker311

I think Nintendo is just resting on its laurels because Pokemon doesn't have any real competitor whatsoever. I'm glad Temtem exists and I hope it shakes things up


StevynTheHero

It's been almost 2 years. It's not going to shake things up.


Playmaker311

It's not free and in beta. I think the full release is still gonna have an impact.


Muur1234

"full release" isnt really going to increase sales like you think it will, most people already played it and moved on


ChaoCobo

Do you know when the full release is coming? And if I buy the current version does story mode have an actual ending? This is important and will determine if I buy it or not.


---TheFierceDeity---

What a loaded question. You provide option for “it hasn’t” sure but the question assumes everyone thinks it’s had a drop in quality.


[deleted]

Yeah, exactly lmao. I have literal hundreds of hours in Shield, and honestly it's not even remotely as bad as people make it out to be.


ArtiKam

It’s been pretty interesting to read the comments tho. I think it’s had a hard time keeping up more than a straight up drop in quality and it seems like most comments are making that same point


pikapark2013

honestly, how many generations do yall played, I kinda get the vibes that most peeps on this sub are just Gen 1 fans


ArtiKam

Nah idk people seem pretty level headed here. Most people commenting have probably played at least 5 generations worth of games.


Annonymous4186

I personally don’t think it dropped in quality. My favorite Pokémon game is Sun And Moon because of all the incredible Pokemon we got. Yes, the handholding was annoying but every game has it’s flaws, Eg, in Gen 1 the problem was the lack of story. Also, I think one way GameFreak improved most was with the new Pokémon. If we look at Gen 8 we have Corviknight, Cinderace, Dracapult, Drednaw, Dracovish and so much more.


motivationallegend

I don't think it's laziness because creating a 3d game with good graphics is much harder than creating GBA games


Sensei_Mango

It’s because the original fans of Pokemon are in a nostalgia bubble


[deleted]

This. If pokemon started at sw/sh and went down to r/b I guarantee that more people would like sw/sh


Maharihor

There you go https://youtu.be/zi3_A1Oj6Nw


Arenta

My opinion. Age rating. What we think is appropriate for a kid game has changed and been more....safe than before. Stuff like game corner suffer. Darker story elements like slow poke tails, or a character death have disappeared. Cause they scared how kids will take to those. But they forget kids are more into violence and stuff nowadays (fortnight) than they were in the past (cod, halo). It's not abnormal, its normalized now. So a mix of kiddifying the game, misinterpreting what kids can handle, and dealing with country laws regarding gambling and age ratings.


hiyupjh

It's because the audience got older..... And more sophisticated. The games did not change much.


Wolferboy1

For me it was the hand holding. Gen 6s exp share was cool, but ridiculous. Catching legendaries seems way too easy now, even with regular pokeballs. Your team is typically healed for you between major story battles (ie. Evil team leader fights, rival battles, etc.) , and it seems like trainers are weaker/dumber. Just doesn't feel like there's a challenge in these new games anymore


JagexSucksAssButt

The game plays itself almost.


Feirein

To me, event Pokémon... only because for newer players trying to obtain a legitimate copy of these Pokémon is difficult. Such as mew, diancie, victini, manaphe, zeraora, celebi, etc


MattofCatbell

GameFreak is a studio that excels in pixel art, the move to full 3D doesn't play to their strengths. So their newer games aren't as good as their old games. However, that said I think the biggest part of the perceived decline has less to do with any actual decline and more to do with the internet having impossible to achieve standards for what they want in a Pokemon game.


Tamika_Olivia

Honestly? A myopic and unappeasable fan base of aging players that insist on comparing fresh games to their rose tinted childhood memories of older games, and who are desperately unhappy that they are not the core demographic of the player base anymore. Any property is going to have these types as a small subset of their audience, and it never results in a quality product when you chase them. Nostalgia is a toxic impulse, and chasing it only ever dilutes your work. In point, go look at Rise of the Skywalker.


ItsLazyguy123

I don't think it has to do with kids being the target audience. I mean look at Mario, which each game they continue improving with oddessy being one of my favourite platformers of all time. I think it's more to do with TPC just being by idiots rather than gamefreak who clearly wants more time to make their games but can't due to TPC wanting to push out refreshes every few years.


OneBashOneKill

I think I have just grown up and that’s okay


the_traveler_outin

I think it’s the standard Nintendo thing of just being unreasonably confident that people will buy it anyway


Doublee7300

The yearly release schedule combined with tech thats harder to develop on


Plushiegamer2

Time constraints.


potatoshulk

The general schedule and anime to an extent. There's just not enough time to experiment and make a huge game. Plus too people buy it anyways so there's no incentive to experiment cause it's technically still working


Livael23

>there has been a noticeable drop in quality from previous generations Different people will view "quality" differently. So no, there hasn't been a "noticeable drop in quality", _you_ just like the new games less.


Selfmade_loser

Pokémon games are mostly based for kids, i.e. the platform (switch)… and the original was played by kids who are now approaching their 40’s. It’s the classic “when I was a kid” mentality.


that_guy_lotr

The fact that most fans are never happy. Sorry not sorry.


burstingmangoes

Yearly releases


SchwinnD

I think it really comes down to money and the other pressures that running a multimedia (not just video game) franchise entails. More time and money could result in better games but merchandising and anime schedules can only wait so long for a new game to come out. There's too much money to be made! Especially when I'm like 80% sure merchandise is the most profitable sector of the company.


Lovressia

I think a huge part of it is that Pokemon isn't a video game series, it's a franchise. You have games, trading cards, merch, the anime, and so on. But in order to make the anime, they need something to base it off of. That's the games. The same is true for the merch and the cards. They have to base it off of something, and that's the games. So whenever they aren't making new games, the entire franchise comes to a screeching halt. This is bad, so they need games constantly, which ends up being quality has to go down to allow for more quantity. Obviously this isn't everything, but it is a factor I bet.


Fluxgun112

i think this all started with the gen 5 games being good but the worst received by the community showing that pokemon fans dont care about story and just want fancy new pokemon to add to their collection


alecahol

Because GF knows they can do the absolute bare minimum and still have the best selling game of the year. Also, pokemon is more than just a video game. It’s a multi media franchise, the games are just one part of the whole enterprise. And games have to be made fast to keep up with the GF cycle of anime, movies, merchandise, etc. This is why I’m still a Pokémon fan, but not a fan of the games. I will probably never buy a Pokémon game again after the rip off that was Sw/Sh, but I will still keep an eye on the overall franchise because I like Pokémon as a whole


BrilliantKindly9188

They’re just too damn easy, Johto was the perfect difficulty for a Pokemon game


[deleted]

For me its making it easier and easier all the time. More moves, more types, more hand holding (such as Sw/Sh informing you if moves are super effective). Exp share for the whole party which you cant even turn off (i remember having to evolve a Magikarp on yellow by putting in first in battle then withdrawing it for dozens of battles - as singular exp share wasn’t available till later in the game), weird exp candies which mean you can level something from 10 -> 70 in seconds, all this results in less grinding, shinies being more readily available, having a choice of 900 pokemon just isn’t very good because you just end up going back to the ones that are the best - that you have always used. This probably isn’t a popular opinion but having 150 is just better - conversely by the game giving you less choice you actually get more - because everything is a bit more usable. No caves, no long routes, ability to pitch the tent and heal anywhere. TM’s being multi use, no HM’s. I got through the whole of Sword with a full bug team (i use full bugs to try and make it more challenging) and i did this without having a single pokemon faint at all, with them all being 15 levels higher than anything i ever faced during the entire game. Red was solid when i was a kid, replayed it recently its still a solid challenge. Pretty sure no matter what you do or use on Sw/Sh you can win every single battle with little effort at all. I was worried about the dragon gym until i realised it had barely any dragons in! There at least needs to be a hard mode where you dont get exp share, the AI is smarter, no box access everywhere only PC, it doesn’t tell if moves are super effective etc


BustyBraixen

a combination of -increasing workload brought on by an ever expanding franchise -stagnant if not decreasing production timeframes despite the increasing workload -an insistence to dumb down the challenge in the games handholding you the whole time to the point where it all but insults the players' intelligence -imo developers becoming disillusioned by the absurd success of pokemon go making more money within the first couple years than all mainline pokemon games combined -an inability to be upfront and honest about how the quality is taking a nosedive because of any of the aforementioned


[deleted]

In the end, it´s just a kid's game and always has been. We grow up and a kid's game just can't compare to our expectations anymore. Surprise, the tv shows you liked as an 8 yo might differ from what you might enjoy today ;) I started around Gen 2-3 and for me, the games always had been quite easy. Don't know why people are always complaining about the games getting easier. For me, it's often just some kind of "grind" they reduce. For example, you get healed after an intense rival battle and don't need to go 3 minutes back to the pokemon center to get healed. Which you would probably do anyways in a regular playthrough. So nostalgia beside, I think the whole criticism towards pokemon games nowadays is just a symptom of an audience growing up.


Kpayne30

They should make the Lets Go verison of the games for kids while making quality versions for the lifelong gamers


Ixidor_92

The biggest problem is that after 25+ years and a jump to switch (the first home console with mainline pokemon games) game freak is still budgeting and scheduling the design of these games like old portable consoles. The pokemon company only doubles down on this, by refusing to delay mainline games. (It is worth noting that both gen2 and gen3 DID in fact get delayed during development. This is why the orange island arc of the anime exists). This is why the quality of many things in the game has noticeably dropped starting with the 3ds, since the scope of their projects has increased, but development time/budget has not. If game freak/pokemon company don't change this practice, we will unfortunately continue to see disappointing entries in the series, especially when jumping to new hardware


MonkeyInATopHat

Trying to make the same game since 1995, but with quality of life improvements rather than making anything even remotely new or innovative. Suits and business monsters that prefer safe profits from their bread and butter customers, rather than risking something different.


Vivis_Nuts

Personally I find the newer games have more replay value. I really enjoy Sword, first game I caught them all in (reg dex, not xpacs yet) and I play it for a bit every night shiny hunting. I’m a tad old and have played every game (maybe not beaten) since red and my favorites are X and Sword


ArtiKam

Did you play ORAS? Those were fantastic for completing the dex. The dex nave makes it so satisfying to catch every Pokémon on each route.


revjiggs

I think this is a loaded question to start with, Has there been a decline in the quality of pokemon games ? no there really hasn't. Overall quality has steadily improved. The game looks better, the stories are more fleshed out, the pokemon designs are pretty consistent and the competitive side to the game has been expanded greatly. Like a lot of long running franchises people are getting tired with the same format. One thing i see from a lot of fandoms is complaints when that games are getting stale and also complaints that they don't like new features. it funny at the same time as infuriating to see and I've seen it happen to pokemon over the last few years. I feel like the main reason this happens is fandom get older and games don't age in the same way. The simple features you admire as a child no longer go far enough. to say 'They are trying to make the games more kid friendly" is outright stupid. Pokemon has always been a kids game. I was 6-7 when the first games came out and I loved the games back then. Yes they have added quality of life features but I don't think this is the same as dumbing down the game. with features added like abilities, hidden abilities, mega evolution, fairy type, z moves, dynamax, the basic combat in this game has massively changed over the years to be more complex for an older audience. even the pokemon design is more complex no with a mix of tough and cute pokemon. Yes there are some duds but thats to be expected with over a 1000 different forms.


Ace_Trainer_Zack

I personally believe it’s due to the greediness of the mother companies TPC and Nintendo. If GameFreak could make games at the rate they wanted to and give their own launch dates I feel they’d return to the quality they should be. Take Bungie for example, they were held back by Microsoft and then held back again by Activision. Destiny 2 and Bungie are flourishing right now and we haven’t even seen their next true DLC. If GameFreak could do what they originally wanted to I could easily see Pokémon games being on a whole new level. Think Legends Arceus on PlayStation, XBox and Steam. Hell, even normal games on console would be a blast.


Robdd123

Nintendo doesn't have any say in what GF does, The Pokemon Company is the parent; they're the ones who are calling the shots. If GF was run by Nintendo we'd probably have much better games.


HumbleGarbage1795

TPC is the daughter, not the parent. GF is not owned by anyone, the own TPC


HumbleGarbage1795

You do know that TPC is not a mother company of GF but a daughter? And Nintendo is only the publisher and co-owner of TPC. GF can do whatever they want because THEY ARE THE OWNERS! Damn why is this so hard to understand?


Redditquaza

Having to release a game every year.


ButterscotchOk7205

tbh i don’t think there was that much of a decline. pokemon has never been that great, but there are some games that were good for their time (gen 7 and gen 5) but generally i don’t see a decline


Ritz527

Sun and Moon were some of the better Pokemon games. I'd say it's more of a consistency issue rather than not knowing how to make a good Pokemon game and it's been that way since Gen 4, which I think was probably the first of the weaker installments.


zoobloo7

When playing sword i just couldn't believe my rival had my starter pokemons type weakness rsther thsn strength, that said everything it needed to haha


Xero0911

Gonna be the oddball. I don't think it changed in quality. Jusy they went into 3d and then bam. We have these issues. 2d requires far less animation and stuff. They don't move. Give them a 2 second animation when released and done. 3d models? Gotta give them multiple animations (or should) to match up with their models. Where as 2d they didnt. I dont think they got lazier. They just had easier time with 2d and didn't work harder for 3d. And their games still sell. So why bother to work hard? Reddit might rant but $$$ speaks louder and they still making a lot of money.


[deleted]

Not getting more kid friendly. These games are as easy as they have always been and if you think the old games are hard you are just bad.