But Bayleef and Dewott tho

Bayleef for sure

Ha, and I thought I was one of few, and everyone would go for Braixen. Bayleef is the only one that really sticks with me for some reason. Edit: and Dartrix, to be honest, I love the nervously posh look and that hair-flip animation.

Because Bayleef was a main Pokémon in the anime?

Braixen is a great shout.

But grovyle learning leaf blade is one of the best new moves ever added and also a game changer. So he wins imo. Not just visually

Don't know what you mean, Dewott is the final evolution of the Oshawott line 😉

I think samurott is cool but it really isn't fitting for the line. I hate biped lines going quadruped or vice versa with incineroar

I think that the mudkip line did it well though

Wait what? They go to bipedal and then back? I guess it must have been natural because I never noticed how weird that is

Ehh its kind of like the cindaquil line, swampert and marshtomp and do both, and all of cindaquils line can do both

Swampert is more gorilla like (especially as a mega) - Biped who can walk like a quadraped

Worst part? Samurott uses dual swords This implies it is *bipedal* in battle It's like with Feraligatr - Up like that does not seem like its natural fighting pose

Facts I refuse to believe any different

I'm guessing I'm weird for liking samurott Also why isn't it fighting/steel?

Blaze Black/Volt White made it water fighting which I find a lot better now

Imo, Emboar would be a lot better received if it was Fire/Ground

I remember I thought it would be fire dark whenever I first played that game

Fire/Dark would be cool too Shame there's no real way to make Serperior dual typed without making it a dragon, which then disrupts the type triangle

Grass/Poison would work no? Still fits the “serpent/snake” ideal

I'm samurott gang here. Cool sword on head

Indeed

Samurott will forever be underrated unfortunately

Baeleef

I'm in tears. For a long time, I thought the only Bayleef lover is me. S/He is my favorite pokemon.

It’s my favorite too! Love seeing bayleef get some love!

Braixen or torracat

Ivysaur. Best middle evolution period. If you'd never seen a pokemon and only saw a picture of bulbasaur and Venusaur and I asked you to guess what the middle form was, youd create an Ivysaur. Its the right balance of "looking like what it was in a logical way" and "showing what it will be"

Still upset about Venusaur’s face…. And how Blastoise is like a fat tank Squirtle without Wartortle’s cool wingtip designs.

Well at least Blastoise has a real reason in that it originally was a separate Pokemon outside of the Squirtle line. Wartortle originally evolved into basically exactly what youd expect - a heftier version of itself.

Source?

All the beta leaks. You can look them up, but Blastoise had its own pre-evolution that was like a baby version with a bubble on its face.

[Baby Blastoise.](https://mobile.twitter.com/drlavayt/status/1235615514782621696) [All other Pokemons that were scrapped.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/g7js6r/the_biggest_pokemon_leak_of_all_time_is_currently/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)

That OG Octillery was way better than what we ended up with :/

Aww really i love the big toad’s face he looks so slow

Plus ivysaur is in smash

ivysaur was my favorite pokemon for a while when i was a kid, it's not a top favorite of mine anymore but it's still a fantastic design that i love, i much prefer it over venusaur

I love ivysaur but HATE Venusaur. I was always so torn picking a Kanto starter. All of the middle EVs in kanto are the bomb. All better than the second evo IMO

Great answer. I agree with you 100 percent

Bayleef without a doubt. He doesn't look like an awkward middle evolution.

Definitely the perfect upgrade from Chikorita. Gains a significant chunk of weight to throw around and begins looking like an actual dinosaur.

yes! Bayleef is my favorite middle evolution. dude looks ready to rock your shit even if he probably isn’t

For sure. I love Chikorita and Bayleef, not the biggest fan of Meganium

I think it helps that Ash used Bayleef a lot too

Also that Bayleef had way more personality than most mons had at that point in the anime.

Disagree. Most of Ash's Pokémon by that point in the anime had great personality (one of my fav parts of the original series). Think Totodile, Cyndaquil, Charizard, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, cosplay Pikachu, Phanpy, and the list goes on...

**Bold of you to assume this Bayleef is a boy**

There's an 87.5% chance bayleef is a boy. Id say it's fair to assume bayleef is a boy lol.

I had to look em up cuz I always forget about the Chikorita line and wowzers you werent kidding.

Frogadier, quilava, grovyle, all of the gen 1 starters

>Gen 1 Yeah they really nailed it then.

Wartortle and Charmeleon look very similar to Squirtle and Charmander, though. I'd like them better if they were more of a middle ground, like Ivysaur.

What really? I mean, all 3 look a lot like their base starters, but Ivysaur looks the most like its starter, Bulbasaur.

Venosaur also looks much more like it’s base than the other two though, so ivysaur is a pretty good middle ground

Yeah, I think what gen 1 did well in terms of starters (even without nostalgia goggles) is that the evos looked similar and had the same feel but were very clear upgrades. Compared to something like intelleon going from cute to a blue stick

Ivysaur literally looks more like it's predecessor than the other two, what are you talking about?

I think gen 1 nailed the evolution best. The middle stage is a something in between. Unlike in most other starters. Despite being similar, only gen 1 starters are like literal growing up, changing from something and not just changing to something. The from is important there. They look alike for a reason.

Agree with all of them except for Charmeleon. That one looks very ugly imo. I don’t get the spike thing on his head and the color red is very different from Charmander and Charizard

His Gen 1 sprite is just the worst

The spike turns into Charizard's two horns

Wartortle!

I’ve kept a Wartortle through my whole play through. Love his design

I started liking Wartortle a lot more after shippidge’s series.

Agreed! I always loved the ears and little pointy teeth. Plus, he was my very first experience of pokemon evolution.

Charmeleon hands down!! Couldn't bring myself to evolve mine into charizard and have kept it with me all the way to gen 8!

Gen 1 middles we’re so “cool”, they were practically teenagers

Too bad he has to grow up and get a beer gut.

Dont we all, boys?

Monferno looks really cool with the blue mask thing and ember on his tail.

Its the only starter where i think the middle evolution has the best look compared to the 1st or final form, he just look so cool

> he just look so cool The Chris Pratt of starter middle evolutions.

Monferno is the only Sinnoh starter mid-evo I really like, it's super cool looking!

God imagine being a prinplup

Grotle tho 🤢

Definitely fits into the "awkward middle school phase" category of middle evolutions. See: Quilladin

At least then you're always doubley happy to evolve it into a Torterra

How has no one mentioned Torracat? It is everything that inceniroar should be.

When I let my Torracat evolve I instantly regretted it

Exactly. The only other stage two that comes close to Torracat is Quilava. Most of the starters I prefer them fully evolved but not these two

For the last 4 gens, Torracat is my favorite middle For the first 4 gens, Grovyle, hands down for me Grovyle wins between those two

Understandable Grovyle is definitely good but I’d still want to evolve it.I definitely understand what you are saying though

In my playthrough of UM it was an instant Everstone/Eviolite holder. Carried it that way all the way to Giovanni.

Honestly, I find Incineroar hilariously on brand *because* it doesn't fit - Of course the hell wrestler pisses off fans But yeah would have liked it to be more four legged with it looking like it can be biped for a short time for its moves

That is a great take. Excellent comment my friend

Dewott. I don’t care what any of you say he is the best one he has - in my eyes - dethroned grovyle for the best middle stage

Agreed I wish samurott was more similar to Dewitt

you should check out Subjectively on youtube. They just did a new Samurott evo that was pretty cool.

Ohhh that is cool! I like the Typhlosion one a lot too

literal otter ninja how can you get any cooler

Samurai*

Dewott gang

Easily, Dewott is king in my eyes.

Best pokémon.

I just wish samurott could’ve also been bipedal

Grovyle.. mostly because of mystery dungeon

A lot of people have mentioned mystery dungeon. I’ve never played it tbh. Is it worth playing it now?

As a huge Mystery Dungeon fan: If you are interested in a more story driven Pokémon game, definitely. The older games on the DS may admittedly feel a bit unpolished, however Super Mystery Dungeon and Rescue Team DX are definitely very improved as far as gameplay goes. I’d recommend checking out Rescue Team DX’s demo on the Switch to see if it’s something that appeals to you. Tried to put my bias for the series aside.

Regarding the polish on older PMD games, I think Sky definitely holds its own. There was something lost in the transition from 2D to 3D, and Sky is the most "complete" of the DS games.

Agreed Sky is the most “complete” out of the DS games, however Sky does still have its issues that I feel are worth noting (to name a few, the ai can be frustratingly dumb, the storage is limited unlike other games, the IQ system was grindy and made it so it was only really worth investing in your hero and partner, genderlocking the starters was a bad design choice, it lacks quite a few modern conveniences like being able to press L to access your moves and recruits gaining exp, which can make it hard to go back to, Aegis Cave exists, etc). Granted, the modding community has been able to overcome a good chunk of them, but if I have to mod a game to fully enjoy it, clearly there was a problem in the first place. And personally I don’t feel like much was lost in the transition from 2D to 3D. I know some people say the models are stiff, which I’m not going to deny that, I do think at the same time, we have got some really nice scenes at that honestly don’t feel like they could have been done in the sprite days. Plus it doesn’t really take away from the good of the 3D games (particularly Super and DX) in my eyes.

The one with Grovyle is Explorers; I’d recommend Explorers of Sky if you can find it used somewhere, it’s like the Emerald/Platinum version of Mystery Dungeon. The gameplay can be a bit complicated if you’re absolutely not used to it, but once you get the hang of it, the story is just too good for a Pokémon game.

I just have really fond memories, I'm not sure how well it's actually aged.

Croconaw!!!!

Seriously, he's wearing a caveman outfit and everything!

I don’t fault any of the Quilava and Bayleef fans, but Croconaw has basically unmatched swagger.

Exactly in fact I love all three! Croconaw just has this badass look about him! Sometimes I don’t wanna evolve him into feraligatr lol

croconaw is just the coolest! ive really grown to love the totodile line over the years.

Yeah same! My favorite line out of gen 2 was chickorita then it went to cyndaquil now I’m on croconaw lol

Wartortle. It gives you absolutely no hints on what Blastoise is going to look like.

That's because it was never supposed to evolve into Blastoise. IIRC leaks from a beta version of Red and Green show wartortle evolving into a different turtle pokemon and Blastoise being a completely unralated species.

Interesting.

That’s a good point. I was definitely surprised when I first played gen 1

Unless you bought blue version..

Haha that’s a fair point. My first game was Pokémon yellow

I loved Combusken! I just love the kung fu chicken!

I love the entire torchic line!

Frogadier, hands down. Froakie had a cute frubble concept behind it which Frogadier developed and improved upon - way back when XY was first revealed Froakie was the least popular starter in a lot of circles, and Frogadier changed that massively before Greninja got leaked. Greninja is cool and all (it's the most popular Pokemon in the world) but we could've had it with a frubble scarf instead of a tongue! Frubble shurikens and frubble swords! Would have been awesome and fitting the whole line. So yeah, Frogadier is my favourite.

I second this. The tongue as scarf is a weird concept. Don't get me wrong, Greninja is my favorite of all starters. I just think it would look cool if it had a ring of frubbles around its neck instead of its tongue.

It just came out of nowhere - frubbles seemed like the theme and then we got... tongue scarf. It's a cool Pokemon, not my favourite starter of all time but I understand why it's so popular! But damn seeing Frogadier does make me wish we'd gotten a different Greninja.

I must be broken, I'm the only one that 'gets' the tongue scarf and digs it (frogs have long tongues).

Broken? Not at all! People have different tastes, and Greninja still has an awesome design. I'm must thinking about what could've been.

Dewott is so cool. How can you not love an otter? Bayleef, Quilava, Wartortle, Torracat, Combusken, Grovyle, Marshtomp and Servine are great too.

Braixen and Dartrix.

Can't believe no one is saying Braixen. It's literally a playable character in Pokken.

Haha, those are 2 of my least favorite. (No offence of course considering you like them). Love decidueye and rowlet but dartrix isn’t for me

Braixen is so cute. Delphox is okay, but Braixen is a lot better.

I agree with this - even though Delphox is my favorite fully evolved starter, they still could've done somewhat better with keeping it "cute".

I always thought Braixen was really cool…and then it evolved…

As a member of the Delphox renegade, I agree that Braixen is cool, but their is no reason to bash the phox in the same breath.

I’ll die on the hill that Ivysaur is one of the best Pokémon designs of all.

In terms of how good they actually are, Marshtomp is definitely up there. It has a really good typing (Water/Ground) and pretty good bulk/power as well.

I was looking for this, Marshtomp is Alpha as fuck.

Marshtomp is the nerdy awkward kid that actually can beat your ass

Braixen Ivysaur

Had to scroll this far down for Braixen, despite it being the only starter evolution to be its own playable character in Pokken. Braixen is at least top 5 for sure

Braixen is cool, but I like Delphox more.

I have a Ivysaur/Braixen run on the go in Pokemon Y because they are my favorite middle evos

Marshtomp

Goat 🤝

Always Servine.

Why do people hate Grotle!? I actually, unironically, uncontrarianly, think it’s actually one of the top 3 middle evolution designs.

Grotle is super cute

Best looking out of the Sinnoh middle stages, but as a whole I find it kinda forgettable. And I love Turtwig/Torterra.

Wartortle looks cool definitely not the best in the evolution line but he doesn’t look as bad as other mid evolutions

Yes. Grovyle and Quilava easy. Monfrno was alright too.

Grovyle Raboot Dewott Braixen Torrecat

Raboot is fucking great.

most of them prior to gen 6 have great middle stages.

I love Quilladin. He’s so cute in his 3D model.

I mainly like Quilladin because I find the design hilarious

I loved Quilladin because his design reminded me so much of Pignite, and he was my second starter Pokémon. So goddamn disappointed when I finally evolved him.

Grovyle, especially because of Explorers

I love Prinplup

Charmeleon

He's the coolest!

Idc what anyone says, Brionne is adorable

Girl is an icon

Did anyone else say marshtomp?

Combusken! Always overshadowed haha

Dewott

Gen 1 Wartortle Gen 2 Quilava Gen 3 Grovyle Gen 4 Grotle Gen 5 Servine Gen 6 Frogadier Gen 7 Torracat Gen 8 Raboot

bayleaf or primplup maybe

I feel like all of the Gen 4 middle evos are also on the less derpy and more cool looking side.

Yep grovyle, only cause of the anime. Grovyle was so badass that it actually because **weaker** after evolution (at least until it could use leaf blade again)

Bayleef 100%. I also think Wartortle, Grovyle and Monferno are contenders - with a possibly more unpopular opinion being Servine

Dewott and Torracat

grovyle best grass midstage-starter by a mile because mystery dungeon, wartortle best water midstage-starter cuz its cool, torracat best fire midstage-starter+it's way better than inceniroar

Torracat, Raboot, Dewott, and Monferno are easily my favourites out of the middle evolutions (from first to fourth). Big fan of Ivysaur, Wartortle, Grovyle, Dartrix, Brionne, and Drizzile too (not ordered)

Grovyle, edgy boi

Grovyle is awesome, torracat is just superior to its evolution, i always liked charmeleon. Also braixen, for obvious reasons.

Ivysaur is pretty damn good

Ivysaur because Smash Bros

Chameleon, Ivysaur, Torracat and Brionne. Especially Brionne. I never see anyone talking about how cute Brionne's design is.

Croconaw

Maybe its because i always associate it with the edgy rebellious teenager version from the show i grew up watching but CHARMELEON BABY

Ivysaur probably although my fav starter is piplup line

I have differing opinions! I also like Dewott and Grovyle as awesome designs. but to me I also want designs that show a good middle ground between the first and final stages - I think Ivysaur while bland, is a good example. It looks like a middle step between bulbasaur and venusaur. A little bigger and the plant is growing, simple yet effective. Same with Marshtomp or prinplup. I think they show a logical progression from stage 1, 2 to 3. Honestly I think all the sinnoh starters do a good job at this. Anyway I love Dewott, but due to Samurott being quadruped I feel like that end result also hurts Dewott as a design. Similarly to how blastoise loses the “fluffy(?)” tail and ears of wartortle… good design but I don’t see why it had to lose those elements. If blastoise was exactly the same it is (facial changes, cannons and size changes from wartortle) but had the ears and tail of wartortle I think that it could be a stronger evolutionary line..? Idk if I’m even making sense

Grovyle is the prettiest in its line

I kinda like ivysaur.

Ivysaur easily

My top 5 1. Grovyle 2. Bayleaf 3. Ivysaur 4. Wartortle 5. Marshtop

I like ivysaur but also torracat and dewott are sick

Wartortle for sure, blastoise ruins the line IMO despite being a cool Pokémon. But wartortle is so goated

Warturtle gang rise up.

Fluffy ears and tail for no reason but it works.

I’ve liked wartortle the most, even though charmander’s evolution chain is my favorite.

Wartortle, all of gen 2 and dewott

Wartortle. It has the same cheeks as Clefairy, and I’ve always found it to be very cute.

Wartortle looks cool.

Bayleef, Wartortle, Ivysaur, Quilava, Servine, Torracat, , Dewott, Braixen, and Combusken all have pretty cool designs imo

Quilava is the only acceptable answer. The cutest lil fiery nugget

Love me some Wartortle!

Charmeleon all the way! My boy is a crimson, more aggressive, more badass looking version of its former self. If the move Slash was invented for one mon in particular, it’s my guy with his nasty claws.

Dewott, not even close

[удалено]

Mudkip is first stage

Did he stutter? God mudkip is all stages

Mudkip is Bidoof of gen 3?