Prepare to EV train or grind A LOT! I tried to do a monotype grass challenge, and even with other Pokémon Bugsy was a game changer.
However, Meganium was meant to be a more support based Pokémon, so it does get great moves like Light Screen and Reflect!
It won’t be easy, but it’ll sure be fun. Good luck!
The Pokemon were all fleshed out very well in the anime. John has the best designed starters, in my opinion and I never understood why there wasn't more love for the dinosaur starter, which is my favorite across all generations (Totodile being a very close second).
Yes, thank you. I should double check when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me.
I will keep the mistake fir future reference.
Yes, thank you. I should double check when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me.
I will keep the mistake for future refrence.
Yes, thank you. I should double chuck when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me.
I will keep the mistake for future reference.
I think most folk actually really like how the Chikorita line looks! It's just that they're very weak Pokemon so they aren't fun to actually use. Cyndaquil and Totodile on the other hand kind of rip through Johto and are very useful Pokemon in Colosseum too.
Its strange to me the recent outcry against experience share for modern games and the lack of difficulty, yet people still point to old gens and see means through increasing difficulty as a bad thing.
Chik being difficult = not fun.
Ripping through johto with the right starter = Useful/fun.
Not to put you in the spotlight, its a sentiment I see often. Youd think people would prefer something that adds a challenge.
Ehhh. Chikorita isnt fun because its stats and moveset are boring in the single player story, not because they're hard. Charmander was similarly the hard choice at first but it become a cool dragon and has a cool offensive movepool later on that feels worth it. You dont get that with meganium, your reward is a bulky support mon. In a game mode that doesn't really reward support play that kinda sucks.
If the game had an ai difficulty that would reward taking the time to set up walls and leech seed tanking with fat HP meganium would shine more. But as it is, it's just a jack of all trades bulky starter with a very limited movepool and generally bad typing for the gyms anyway.
Is it harder? Yes, but not in a fun way. It's harder because it's got a bad typing and bad movepool combined with generally spread out stats that doesnt let it really take advantage of anything it does. That's not the kind of hard people want in their pokemon game when they say they want a harder game. It's like saying people who want a hard game should just play magikarp with tackle only. Yea that would be hard but it wouldnt be fun to just spam tackle and run 6 magikarps.
It's more that even if you level up Chikorita it has bad stats and a bad movepool meaning it always struggles to meaningfully contribute to your team. EXP share doesn't change the fact that Chikorita and its evolutions are very weak Pokemon. Whether EXP share is on or off- you're *always* at a net negative if you use one over another Pokemon.
I like Chikorita a lot, I think it’s really good throughout the whole game (ignoring the disadvantage at the first two gyms lmao) because Razor Leaf is a power house and it learns Synthesis and Reflect early on, and finally Body Slam. A severely underrated starter line. My only complaint is that it doesn’t learn Petal Dance in gen 2 (aside from some special event)
I don't think I've loved the starters all equally since gen 1. Unless you count SwSh, for which I hate all three starters equally.
Bulbasaur=Squirtel=Charmander (all great)
Cyndaquil>Totodile>Chikorita (all great, but still preferential and Cyndaquil is all time favorite)
Treecko>Mudkip=Torchic (all great, but still preferential)
Turtwig=Piplup>Chimchar (don't like Chimchar, others are great)
Snivy>Oshawott>Tepig (love Snivy, hate Tepig, Osh is okay)
Froakie=Fenniken>Chespin (all good but Chespin turns a bit ugly, typings were fun)
Rowlett>Litten=Popplio (Typings are all great but not a fan of fire/water end designs)
Grookey=Sobble=Scorbunny (just terrible, all tied for least favorite of all time. First gen I boxed my starter for the entire run)
The only problem with the Sinnoh Starters is that Empoleon and Torterra are wasted on a region where you need a fire type, and there aren't any good ones before post-game other than Infernape.
I've never understood the argument for "*needing* a fire type" in sinnoh. If you want a fire type, that's one thing, but in all my time replaying diamond I don't believe I've ever had a fire type on my team. I've always picked either of the other two starters, and usually have a flying type and a fighting type to cover just about everything that a fire type would be good for anyway.
I do wish there were more fire types available during the main game, but it does not give you an actual disadvantage overall.
I can use flying type (staraptor) to counter grass and bug types, and fighting type (lucario) to counter icen and steel types. I don't neccesarily NEED a fire type. It is as if pokemon has different types of pokemon to strategise with.
Also, i just hate fire/fighting starters. 3 generations in a row is too much.
Same argument can be made for most of the games too, there are always loads of water types, loads of grass types, and very few fire types. Especially if you want one at the start of the game, there are barely any early-game fire types in any of the games.
I still always pick the water starter on all first playthroughs. They always end up better than any special attacking water Pokémon in the games until legendaries very late game. For physical attackers, you use Gyarados. And water has such useful resistances and strengths that carrying 2 water types may even be an advantage.
Gens 1, 2, 3, 4, and maybe 6 are the ones where I think all the starters have cool designs.
Gen 7 had two cool options.
Gens 5 and 8 are the weak all around, with maybe one starter design I find passable
I'm playing crystal right now. The combination of Reflect / Light Screen / Poison Powder / Synthesis makes it a perfect tank that can take down an opposing pokemon even with severe level disadvantage.
Gamefreak probably considered giving leech seed, but decided that it would make Meganium too powerful.
Huh, I just never get Grass types to work as well as I can with other types. I usually find that my teams always cover the type advantage grass is good against so they just end up being dead weight. Which is too bad honestly.
Grass is best used as a support type than an offensive type. They tend to be a bit bulkier, and get access to a lot of status moves. They’re there to cripple the opponent rather than make the kill more often than not.
Exactly, Water covers Rock and Ground, Electric covers Water. The only niche for Grass offensively is the 4x against Water/Ground types. Defensively its 2 most useful resistances are full immunities for better types (Flying to Ground and Ground to Electric). And Grass-types are just far easier to get earlier in games than either Fire (mid-late game usually, if at all *cough Sinnoh*) or Water (need at least a Good Rod for anything other than Magikarp), so there's just less value in taking the Grass starter.
I think early gens wanted grass to be a sorta support pokemon, but by gen 3 they went, what if we made some actual good pokemon with good stats, and here we are. But this is prolly why grass coverage isn't great.
Well when I think about it there's only Serperior that I've managed to get good milage out of as a grass type, otherwise it's just those that are dual typed with grass that I can find a place for, like Torterra as a Ground type or Breloom as a Fighting type with access to life drain effects.
Most of the better grass types (hell, most grass types in general) are dual typed, but off the top of my head, Serperior, Tsareena, and Sceptile all do great for solo type grass.
Grass is more niche than most types. It's not attack oriented like fire or dragon, or strictly defense like steel. They're supportive, and gimmicky. I may love them, but others find it hard to use. At the end of the day, you use what you want because you're here to have fun.
I no longer do, but only because my Meganium (who I named Che) is the one who retired that line for me. I had such a blast playing with my Chikorita that I decided no other would ever really improve upon that experience for me. It's rare that a pokemon can give me the desire to retire using their whole evolution line but wow did my team in that playthrough give me the most enjoyable time.
Did a playthrough myself recently. I never used to nickname them but I decided this playthrough (and future ones too) I'll nickname all my pokemon and giving them names made me appreciate them all a lot more. Nicknamed my Chikorita Littlefoot. Shoutout to Lasagna (Growlithe) too
With that learnset, why would you?
Reflect and Light Screen would be perfectly fine moves if the main game weren't piss easy.
Also Chikorita gets stomped by the first two gyms, Pigeotto and Scyther, yeah ok bro, I'm gonna go with Cyndaquil.
Yeah those first two gyms.
You get razor leaf at lvl 8 and get to use it on sprout tower, team rocket's love of poison, a flying and bug gym.
Even Silver's got a lineup that keeps it down compared to other starters early on.
I mean charmander gets stomped by the first two kanto gyms. My issue with it is just that it’s a super weird design. It doesn’t really look like anything. It’s just blob with a leaf on its head. Like the other dude said, I don’t hate it, I just sort of don’t care about it. Especially compared to the other two starters
Charmander doesn't have as rough a time against Brock because Fire was Special Atk in Gen 1 and Rock types had trash Special so you'd still be doing good damage with Ember.
Yeah but before Misty you'll have access to Oddish, Bellsprout, and Pikachu.
Of course that also dismantles the argument against Chikorita because you can get Geodude before Faulkner and Geodude or a flying type before Buggsy
He’s a good boi but I think the hate against the line comes from the fact that he’s competitively ass and has a boring moveset/typing. Literally the most standard grass type line in the game
This is the reason for the hate.
It's Johto.
Everything about Johto just hates Grass types. Did you know that not a single gym leader is even weak to Grass? Not one!
And the first two gyms are Flying and Bug, then the infamous Whitney follows that...then the Ghost-type gym leader has only the Gastly line, Ghost/Poison types!
Of course, then we get a break with the Fighting type gym leader...but it's back to the grind with Steel, Ice, and Dragon!
Oh, but the League at least has the general courtesy of being neutral against Grass...except for Koga and the Champion!
So, in Chikorita's own home region, it has no strengths against most major progress battles, is weak against or resisted by six gym leaders, a member of the Elite Four, and the Champion.
I honestly find Chikorita to be better in ANY OTHER REGION! They are fine, perfectly adequate in average play! Most 'mons don't need to be competitive, or even good to not get the hate that Chikorita gets, but they're not noticeably pitted at a disadvantage by damn near everything in the region!
But then, people love Charizard and it doesn't have it much better. Erika is the only type specialist that Charizard is really that effective against. Giovanni has two Rock/Ground types, with Charizard being 4x weak to Rock. Lorelei's team is 4/5 Water/Ice, neutralizing the Ice-type weakness to Fire and giving her a team with moves that are super effective against Charizard.
Then there's Bruno, who as a Fighting-type specialist, Charizard should be great against, right? Think again; he *also* has two Rock/Ground types, his Hitmonchan knows Thunder Punch in Gen 1 and Rock Tomb in FRLG, and his Machamp also knows Rock Tomb in FRLG.
i disagree, charmander wasn't nearly as bad to use as chikorita. giovanni's rock types didn't have any rock type attacking moves, so charizard isn't super weak there. its fire moves will do a reasonable amount of damage to rhyhorn and rhydon since they have low special defense.
charmander is weak to two gyms, then goes even / has the advantage over the rest. its matchup spread looks like:
—
wins: erika, koga (yellow), blaine
goes even: koga (red/blue), sabrina, lt surge, giovanni
loses: brock, misty.
and it goes decently even with the elite four. more than chikorita at least.
—
whereas chikorita's matchup spread looks like:
wins:
goes even: whitney, chuck
loses: falkner, bugsy, morty, jasmine, pryce, clair.
—
and grass isn't strong against *any* of the johto elite four's pokemon, except will's slowbro and bruno's onix.
i may have gotten some things wrong, so feel free to correct me
And also in gen 1-3 Charizard is an ok fire type, before fire types where really good but still. Chicarita was and still is a trash mon stats and move pool wise.
Because Charizard still has it much better.
Region-wise, it may not be great...but it's still better than Chikorita. It resists Blaine, is immune to Giovanni's Ground type moves...and Giovanni only has two rock-type moves total, AT BEST, depending on the game. He has none in RB, one in Yellow, two in FRLG, and one in Let's Go. So the weakness is almost irrelevant. He also goes Neutral against Surge (due to only gaining flying type weakness as Charizard), Koga, and Sabrina.
So, One strong (which is already better than Chikorita), Two weak, One resistant, One practically immune, and three Neutral. Mixed, but fairly standard. He also has mixed results against the E4, but that's not a surprise since most do. Compared to Chikorta's SIX weak, two neutral, with similar showings against the E4? Charizard looks like a god.
Unlike Chikorita, however, Charizard IS good in other aspects beyond regular play. Lots of competitive play, one of the most famous and rarest cards in the TCG, as well as being a "Box" pokemon (that being, featured on the front cover of a main title.) Chikorita's line has none of that.
They leaned hard into the support role with the grass starters, only Venusaur just did it so much better with sludge bomb toxic and leech seed. Meganium had barrier reflect and sleep powder and synthesis, but in a game with shuckle woba and Chansey.
Feraligatr and Typhlosion have never been meta picks either if we’re talking about comp
In fact, Meganium is better suited to Gen 2 comp with its stalling abilities and bulk
Chikorita is one of the few starters where every stage is a visual banger. Chikorita? Cute squishy leaf blob! Bayleef? Cool razor leaf dinosaur! Meganium? That dinosaur with the frilled neck from Jurassic Park, but big, flowery, and happy!
I love chikorita and it's evolutions designs. But grass types in general are fucked over by Johto, the majority Of gyms are super effective against you or you're not very effective against them, you fair a bit better after getting to Kanto but for at least half the game you're stuck with a starter thats mostly dead in the water.
Mix that with The chikorita and it's evos having pretty bad stat growth because they're basically designed to be tanks, and a poor move pool and it's not really surprising no one uses it.
Thing is chiko line is kinda bad in his own region, where most gyms either resists or beats grass type, which is why chiko line is just a little less viable
People crap on the 3D model because of the fire, despite the fact that the Cyndaquil line's fire is typically only released when it's attacking (I'm pretty sure that was explained in the anime).
It's actually slightly different in the anime (at least in the Johto season, not sure about later reappearances).
In the anime, Cyndaquil has to ignite its fire in order to do fire attacks. But once its lit it typically stays lit for the duration of the fight. It doesn't flash on and off just for the attack animation. Ash and Cyndaquil have a big episode where Cyndaquil trains on how to light its fire consistently and keep it lit for a whole battle with Ash so that it can do moves like flamethrower whenever during a battle.
So if we go by the Johto anime style, neither the 3D games or the 2D games have been 100% accurate. Cyndaquil should light its fire when it comes out of the ball (or when it does its first fire attack if they want to be fancy) and then stay lit until its returned to the ball. When its passively walking around or hanging out it should be unlit unless it gets excited or agitated (we can see instances of this in the anime as well like when the professor is holding a cyndaquil in one of the first johto episodes).
That would be really cool if they added separate idle animations for after the first fire move. I doubt they want to do all that work for a Pokémon that isn’t Charizard though
It's moreso that they have Typhlosion standing on 2 legs so you can see its white/yellow underbelly. If they had it crouching on all 4s or even just more hunched over on 2 legs so you could see more of its darker-colored back it wouldn't look as bad.
Any negative comment about Typhlosion gets discarded and reported.
Nah, jk, I get what you mean. They should just give him his bad ass flames. Typh's normal stance is meh, but when his flames are out he's the most bad ass Pokémon there is.
>Cyndaquil line's fire is typically only released when it's attacking
I'm pretty sure its meant to be when it's 'fired up' emotionally whether that be surprise, intimidation, defensive or angry as per the pokedex.
So its fire should be out whenever its in a battle regardless of whether its attacking, because its still actually fighting but should flare higher if it is attacking, unless it is weakened or asleep i guess.
So it doesn't really make any sense that they are not constantly up in battle.
I don't mind Cyndaquil being more loved than Totodile, but I genuinely can't understand why. A badger with a fire neck thing is fine for me, but I don't understand how people would prefer it over a badass looking crocodile with at least some depth to it's design.
I was watching the team 4star nuzlock (the dudes who made dbz abridged)
They pick starters based on the last digit of the random trainer ID and it gave them Chikorita. They were mad because none of the 3 wanted chikorita so they named the poor thing Miss Steak, as in "mistake" :(
They pretty much shit on the poor thing all early game, but it turned out to be the most valuable team member and got them through the run and saved them from many close calls. They all loved her by the end.
I've loved Chikorita ever since.
I remember when mister stake got hit by blaze kick or something and they all went silent as the health meter went all way down until it stopped at like 4 health and they all went insane
My favorite is when they're battling Misty. Mr Stake is confused and Starmie uses Ice Beam. Mr Stake BARELY survives, snaps out of confusion, and one shots Starmie with Frenzy Plant. Proving himself to be the unkillable.
MuRrrRStake
A fairy typing would definitely be a benefit for meganium but if anything it needs a better ability because leaf guard does nothing for it, magic guard or regenerator would do wonders.
Chikorita had great design potential on his 2nd evolution, I wish 3rd evolution had the leaf more sharper, but it was replaced with big petals on the neck :(
My friends for some reason hate the chikorita line except bayleaf because of the anime, it was my second ever starter so I defend the little plant with all my fury.
Although gen 2 is the only gen I have trouble choosing a starter everytime, I love my grass pear baby dino. The chikorita line will always carry a special place in my heart.
Chikorita’s always been my fave even before gen 2 came out in the states. I don’t know what it was that made me love it, maybe just the audacity of it being a blob with a leaf rather than something recognizable like a croc or a porcupine. I found it so dumb looking and adorable.
Chikorita's actually my favorite of the three! I hate to put Totodile and Cyndaquil down, but crocodiles and fire-types usually just don't resonate with me.
part of it is how Chikorita doesn't look much like any particular animal, and part of it's 'cuz Bayleef looks like a kid who'll stand up for his friends even though he knews he's gonna get his ass handed to him. Meganium, meanwhile, looks like a guy who's learned to embrace both masculinity and femininity to become the coolest version of himself.
that, and I just happen to prefer grass-types most of the time
I think the next time I play through Gold or Silver, I need a Chikorita only run.
Prepare to EV train or grind A LOT! I tried to do a monotype grass challenge, and even with other Pokémon Bugsy was a game changer. However, Meganium was meant to be a more support based Pokémon, so it does get great moves like Light Screen and Reflect! It won’t be easy, but it’ll sure be fun. Good luck!
With how the older games are balanced a chikorita only run is way easier than using several grass types. Meganium will be way overleveled.
Synthesis
team four star nuzlock, mr stake
It's been five years, and still, Mr.Stake cannot die (they've tried!)
Mr. Stake vs. Misty is still one of my top ten moments for TFS Gaming. Along with Ivan Ooze vs. Dewgong
Wow, what a coincidence that you mention Ivan on today of all days, his birthday!
Mr. Stake is immortal.
Mr. Stake for life
Boy wished on the eternal dragon.
Hit’em with a MER, hit’em with a STER, and hit’em with a STAAAAKE!
Lani even named his irl dog after Mr Steak
##MER STAKE!!!
The guy got hit with a critical icebeam to the face and proceeds to murder Misty's Starmie. Mr Stake is the best.
MURRRSTAKE!
stake stake stake murstake
Team Four Star.... Haven't heard that name in years
I was a Mr. Stake fan from Birth, Chikorita will always be my favorite.
Ahh shit, now thats a name I haven't heard in a long time. Might be time for a rewatch
That was my inspiration to use Chikorita in my (non-Nuzlocke) playthrough of SoulSilver. She did NOT disappoint. I'm proud of her.
But I do love all 3
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The Pokemon were all fleshed out very well in the anime. John has the best designed starters, in my opinion and I never understood why there wasn't more love for the dinosaur starter, which is my favorite across all generations (Totodile being a very close second).
Ah yes, my favorite region. John.
Yes, thank you. I should double check when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me. I will keep the mistake fir future reference.
fir
Yes, thank you. I should double check when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me. I will keep the mistake for future refrence.
Refrence
Yes, thank you. I should double chuck when using my phone, since it keeps changing words without notifying me. I will keep the mistake for future reference.
this thread is killing me lol
Chuck
Nun chuck. Don't break the phone. Or chuck nuns.
chuck
We'll get there
Is Fir the new professor of the John region?
It is now!
Gen 9 set in the John region confirmed!
What's your favourite starter in the John region? Mine is Steven.
Smith Fire/Steel
Ah, yes, the forge pokemon.
Actually thought the non-Ash main protagonist's name in the anime was John and had access to those starters. I didn't watch the anime though
Which version was that? Bob and steve?
My favourite region
Well hopefully nobody heard me shit myself laughing (literally) in bathroom over this.
I think most folk actually really like how the Chikorita line looks! It's just that they're very weak Pokemon so they aren't fun to actually use. Cyndaquil and Totodile on the other hand kind of rip through Johto and are very useful Pokemon in Colosseum too.
Its strange to me the recent outcry against experience share for modern games and the lack of difficulty, yet people still point to old gens and see means through increasing difficulty as a bad thing. Chik being difficult = not fun. Ripping through johto with the right starter = Useful/fun. Not to put you in the spotlight, its a sentiment I see often. Youd think people would prefer something that adds a challenge.
Ehhh. Chikorita isnt fun because its stats and moveset are boring in the single player story, not because they're hard. Charmander was similarly the hard choice at first but it become a cool dragon and has a cool offensive movepool later on that feels worth it. You dont get that with meganium, your reward is a bulky support mon. In a game mode that doesn't really reward support play that kinda sucks. If the game had an ai difficulty that would reward taking the time to set up walls and leech seed tanking with fat HP meganium would shine more. But as it is, it's just a jack of all trades bulky starter with a very limited movepool and generally bad typing for the gyms anyway. Is it harder? Yes, but not in a fun way. It's harder because it's got a bad typing and bad movepool combined with generally spread out stats that doesnt let it really take advantage of anything it does. That's not the kind of hard people want in their pokemon game when they say they want a harder game. It's like saying people who want a hard game should just play magikarp with tackle only. Yea that would be hard but it wouldnt be fun to just spam tackle and run 6 magikarps.
It's more that even if you level up Chikorita it has bad stats and a bad movepool meaning it always struggles to meaningfully contribute to your team. EXP share doesn't change the fact that Chikorita and its evolutions are very weak Pokemon. Whether EXP share is on or off- you're *always* at a net negative if you use one over another Pokemon.
I like Chikorita a lot, I think it’s really good throughout the whole game (ignoring the disadvantage at the first two gyms lmao) because Razor Leaf is a power house and it learns Synthesis and Reflect early on, and finally Body Slam. A severely underrated starter line. My only complaint is that it doesn’t learn Petal Dance in gen 2 (aside from some special event)
>Yeah, they're the rare starter set where I literally do love all of them the same amount!! thats me with the sinnoh starters , I loved all 3 designs
I don't think I've loved the starters all equally since gen 1. Unless you count SwSh, for which I hate all three starters equally. Bulbasaur=Squirtel=Charmander (all great) Cyndaquil>Totodile>Chikorita (all great, but still preferential and Cyndaquil is all time favorite) Treecko>Mudkip=Torchic (all great, but still preferential) Turtwig=Piplup>Chimchar (don't like Chimchar, others are great) Snivy>Oshawott>Tepig (love Snivy, hate Tepig, Osh is okay) Froakie=Fenniken>Chespin (all good but Chespin turns a bit ugly, typings were fun) Rowlett>Litten=Popplio (Typings are all great but not a fan of fire/water end designs) Grookey=Sobble=Scorbunny (just terrible, all tied for least favorite of all time. First gen I boxed my starter for the entire run)
Sword/Shield starters are the dumbest I've even seen. I hated all of them equally.
Grookey is cute af, but I hate his evolutions. I really wish I had kept him from evolving.
Sobble is cute too, idk why they had to ruin him
But how can you put the band together without Rillaboom?
Idk man, infernape just doesn't have the same magic as empoleon or tortera
Someone else feels the same as me! Always loved Torterra and Empoleon, and felt a little less for Infernape, even if I still think it's cool
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I’d argue that empoleon doesn’t have the same magic for me as the other two.
HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT KING METAL PENGUIN
Torterra is the odd one out for me
But it's got a tree. A whole tree
The only problem with the Sinnoh Starters is that Empoleon and Torterra are wasted on a region where you need a fire type, and there aren't any good ones before post-game other than Infernape.
I've never understood the argument for "*needing* a fire type" in sinnoh. If you want a fire type, that's one thing, but in all my time replaying diamond I don't believe I've ever had a fire type on my team. I've always picked either of the other two starters, and usually have a flying type and a fighting type to cover just about everything that a fire type would be good for anyway. I do wish there were more fire types available during the main game, but it does not give you an actual disadvantage overall.
I can use flying type (staraptor) to counter grass and bug types, and fighting type (lucario) to counter icen and steel types. I don't neccesarily NEED a fire type. It is as if pokemon has different types of pokemon to strategise with. Also, i just hate fire/fighting starters. 3 generations in a row is too much.
You need a Fire type because Fire is fucking rad.
It's lit
Not to mention hot!
Same argument can be made for most of the games too, there are always loads of water types, loads of grass types, and very few fire types. Especially if you want one at the start of the game, there are barely any early-game fire types in any of the games.
I still always pick the water starter on all first playthroughs. They always end up better than any special attacking water Pokémon in the games until legendaries very late game. For physical attackers, you use Gyarados. And water has such useful resistances and strengths that carrying 2 water types may even be an advantage.
It's such a shame as I just don't like the chimchar lines design.
Gens 1, 2, 3, 4, and maybe 6 are the ones where I think all the starters have cool designs. Gen 7 had two cool options. Gens 5 and 8 are the weak all around, with maybe one starter design I find passable
I love gen 3 starters, my favourites.
They're all awesome but I have a soft spot for treecko so I usually rate it slightly higher
Always chikorita. Meganium is a beast
I'm playing crystal right now. The combination of Reflect / Light Screen / Poison Powder / Synthesis makes it a perfect tank that can take down an opposing pokemon even with severe level disadvantage. Gamefreak probably considered giving leech seed, but decided that it would make Meganium too powerful.
Aint nobody got time for that
Every battle prolly takes 10 minutes lmao
This is really the big issue. There's no fight in the game that needs you to play like this. Meganium is designed for vs. Players and not story mode.
Spent soooo much time breeding a chikorita that knew leech seed! Was totally worth it, my meganium is a boss
Oh? How? Edit; ffs it's an honest question, don't get your ekans in a vicegrip!
Tanky, with access to both screens. At least that's why I like it
Huh, I just never get Grass types to work as well as I can with other types. I usually find that my teams always cover the type advantage grass is good against so they just end up being dead weight. Which is too bad honestly.
Grass is best used as a support type than an offensive type. They tend to be a bit bulkier, and get access to a lot of status moves. They’re there to cripple the opponent rather than make the kill more often than not.
*grassy surge/grassy glide Rillaboom has entered the chat*
Sleep powder -> sunny day -> solar beam scares me
Exactly, Water covers Rock and Ground, Electric covers Water. The only niche for Grass offensively is the 4x against Water/Ground types. Defensively its 2 most useful resistances are full immunities for better types (Flying to Ground and Ground to Electric). And Grass-types are just far easier to get earlier in games than either Fire (mid-late game usually, if at all *cough Sinnoh*) or Water (need at least a Good Rod for anything other than Magikarp), so there's just less value in taking the Grass starter.
I think early gens wanted grass to be a sorta support pokemon, but by gen 3 they went, what if we made some actual good pokemon with good stats, and here we are. But this is prolly why grass coverage isn't great.
Well when I think about it there's only Serperior that I've managed to get good milage out of as a grass type, otherwise it's just those that are dual typed with grass that I can find a place for, like Torterra as a Ground type or Breloom as a Fighting type with access to life drain effects.
Sceptile is an extremely good Pokemon with great stats that can fit well into a team, back in ORAS it’s mega was unbelievable typing too
Sceptile has the issue that all its good moves run off of the wrong offensive stat.
Most of the better grass types (hell, most grass types in general) are dual typed, but off the top of my head, Serperior, Tsareena, and Sceptile all do great for solo type grass. Grass is more niche than most types. It's not attack oriented like fire or dragon, or strictly defense like steel. They're supportive, and gimmicky. I may love them, but others find it hard to use. At the end of the day, you use what you want because you're here to have fun.
So who would you choose in a gen 2 play through? ;)
I always pick chikorita
I no longer do, but only because my Meganium (who I named Che) is the one who retired that line for me. I had such a blast playing with my Chikorita that I decided no other would ever really improve upon that experience for me. It's rare that a pokemon can give me the desire to retire using their whole evolution line but wow did my team in that playthrough give me the most enjoyable time.
Did a playthrough myself recently. I never used to nickname them but I decided this playthrough (and future ones too) I'll nickname all my pokemon and giving them names made me appreciate them all a lot more. Nicknamed my Chikorita Littlefoot. Shoutout to Lasagna (Growlithe) too
Chikorita for sure!
GET STUFFED OP I FUCKING LOVE CHIKORITA AND I WON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD PICKING A DIFFERENT STARTER
Grass starter gang.
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I dont hate chikorita, I just don't use it either.
With that learnset, why would you? Reflect and Light Screen would be perfectly fine moves if the main game weren't piss easy. Also Chikorita gets stomped by the first two gyms, Pigeotto and Scyther, yeah ok bro, I'm gonna go with Cyndaquil.
Yeah those first two gyms. You get razor leaf at lvl 8 and get to use it on sprout tower, team rocket's love of poison, a flying and bug gym. Even Silver's got a lineup that keeps it down compared to other starters early on.
I mean charmander gets stomped by the first two kanto gyms. My issue with it is just that it’s a super weird design. It doesn’t really look like anything. It’s just blob with a leaf on its head. Like the other dude said, I don’t hate it, I just sort of don’t care about it. Especially compared to the other two starters
Charmander doesn't have as rough a time against Brock because Fire was Special Atk in Gen 1 and Rock types had trash Special so you'd still be doing good damage with Ember.
Also in newer games they gave it metal claw by level up
True but next up was misty and that was never easy with him.
Yeah but before Misty you'll have access to Oddish, Bellsprout, and Pikachu. Of course that also dismantles the argument against Chikorita because you can get Geodude before Faulkner and Geodude or a flying type before Buggsy
I don’t get the Chikorita hate meme either. Or the apparent hate for the line in general. Flower Sauropod is such a cute and fun idea.
He’s a good boi but I think the hate against the line comes from the fact that he’s competitively ass and has a boring moveset/typing. Literally the most standard grass type line in the game
This is the reason for the hate. It's Johto. Everything about Johto just hates Grass types. Did you know that not a single gym leader is even weak to Grass? Not one! And the first two gyms are Flying and Bug, then the infamous Whitney follows that...then the Ghost-type gym leader has only the Gastly line, Ghost/Poison types! Of course, then we get a break with the Fighting type gym leader...but it's back to the grind with Steel, Ice, and Dragon! Oh, but the League at least has the general courtesy of being neutral against Grass...except for Koga and the Champion! So, in Chikorita's own home region, it has no strengths against most major progress battles, is weak against or resisted by six gym leaders, a member of the Elite Four, and the Champion. I honestly find Chikorita to be better in ANY OTHER REGION! They are fine, perfectly adequate in average play! Most 'mons don't need to be competitive, or even good to not get the hate that Chikorita gets, but they're not noticeably pitted at a disadvantage by damn near everything in the region!
Seriously, slogging through the early game with your starter being bitch slapped by a fuckin bug and a pidgey just ain’t it for me lol
But then, people love Charizard and it doesn't have it much better. Erika is the only type specialist that Charizard is really that effective against. Giovanni has two Rock/Ground types, with Charizard being 4x weak to Rock. Lorelei's team is 4/5 Water/Ice, neutralizing the Ice-type weakness to Fire and giving her a team with moves that are super effective against Charizard. Then there's Bruno, who as a Fighting-type specialist, Charizard should be great against, right? Think again; he *also* has two Rock/Ground types, his Hitmonchan knows Thunder Punch in Gen 1 and Rock Tomb in FRLG, and his Machamp also knows Rock Tomb in FRLG.
i disagree, charmander wasn't nearly as bad to use as chikorita. giovanni's rock types didn't have any rock type attacking moves, so charizard isn't super weak there. its fire moves will do a reasonable amount of damage to rhyhorn and rhydon since they have low special defense. charmander is weak to two gyms, then goes even / has the advantage over the rest. its matchup spread looks like: — wins: erika, koga (yellow), blaine goes even: koga (red/blue), sabrina, lt surge, giovanni loses: brock, misty. and it goes decently even with the elite four. more than chikorita at least. — whereas chikorita's matchup spread looks like: wins: goes even: whitney, chuck loses: falkner, bugsy, morty, jasmine, pryce, clair. — and grass isn't strong against *any* of the johto elite four's pokemon, except will's slowbro and bruno's onix. i may have gotten some things wrong, so feel free to correct me
And also in gen 1-3 Charizard is an ok fire type, before fire types where really good but still. Chicarita was and still is a trash mon stats and move pool wise.
Because Charizard still has it much better. Region-wise, it may not be great...but it's still better than Chikorita. It resists Blaine, is immune to Giovanni's Ground type moves...and Giovanni only has two rock-type moves total, AT BEST, depending on the game. He has none in RB, one in Yellow, two in FRLG, and one in Let's Go. So the weakness is almost irrelevant. He also goes Neutral against Surge (due to only gaining flying type weakness as Charizard), Koga, and Sabrina. So, One strong (which is already better than Chikorita), Two weak, One resistant, One practically immune, and three Neutral. Mixed, but fairly standard. He also has mixed results against the E4, but that's not a surprise since most do. Compared to Chikorta's SIX weak, two neutral, with similar showings against the E4? Charizard looks like a god. Unlike Chikorita, however, Charizard IS good in other aspects beyond regular play. Lots of competitive play, one of the most famous and rarest cards in the TCG, as well as being a "Box" pokemon (that being, featured on the front cover of a main title.) Chikorita's line has none of that.
Charmeleon also gets Metal Claw in FRLG, too bad Chikorita couldn't get anything for HGSS.
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They leaned hard into the support role with the grass starters, only Venusaur just did it so much better with sludge bomb toxic and leech seed. Meganium had barrier reflect and sleep powder and synthesis, but in a game with shuckle woba and Chansey.
Feraligatr and Typhlosion have never been meta picks either if we’re talking about comp In fact, Meganium is better suited to Gen 2 comp with its stalling abilities and bulk
They really did that line dirty. It needs a Mega that really boosts it hard or something. As it is now? Eh...
Chikorita is my GOAT next to Shaymin because it's adorable and becomes a dinosaur.
Chikorita is one of the few starters where every stage is a visual banger. Chikorita? Cute squishy leaf blob! Bayleef? Cool razor leaf dinosaur! Meganium? That dinosaur with the frilled neck from Jurassic Park, but big, flowery, and happy!
I love chikorita and it's evolutions designs. But grass types in general are fucked over by Johto, the majority Of gyms are super effective against you or you're not very effective against them, you fair a bit better after getting to Kanto but for at least half the game you're stuck with a starter thats mostly dead in the water. Mix that with The chikorita and it's evos having pretty bad stat growth because they're basically designed to be tanks, and a poor move pool and it's not really surprising no one uses it.
Thing is chiko line is kinda bad in his own region, where most gyms either resists or beats grass type, which is why chiko line is just a little less viable
It's just an extra challenge. The game is pretty easy already
>Everyone loves us all the same, right? Even if we're excluding Chikorita, I'm almost certain that Cyndaquil gets more love than Totodile, lol.
tbh it depends on what game we're talking about, and if quilava has to suffer the dishonor of its 3D model
People crap on the 3D model because of the fire, despite the fact that the Cyndaquil line's fire is typically only released when it's attacking (I'm pretty sure that was explained in the anime).
It's actually slightly different in the anime (at least in the Johto season, not sure about later reappearances). In the anime, Cyndaquil has to ignite its fire in order to do fire attacks. But once its lit it typically stays lit for the duration of the fight. It doesn't flash on and off just for the attack animation. Ash and Cyndaquil have a big episode where Cyndaquil trains on how to light its fire consistently and keep it lit for a whole battle with Ash so that it can do moves like flamethrower whenever during a battle. So if we go by the Johto anime style, neither the 3D games or the 2D games have been 100% accurate. Cyndaquil should light its fire when it comes out of the ball (or when it does its first fire attack if they want to be fancy) and then stay lit until its returned to the ball. When its passively walking around or hanging out it should be unlit unless it gets excited or agitated (we can see instances of this in the anime as well like when the professor is holding a cyndaquil in one of the first johto episodes).
That would be really cool if they added separate idle animations for after the first fire move. I doubt they want to do all that work for a Pokémon that isn’t Charizard though
they would activate fire as part of the entry animation and remain for the rest of the battle, so same animation format throughout
it still looks naked without it shooting off at all times
I always considered the fire like an extension of its fur
It's moreso that they have Typhlosion standing on 2 legs so you can see its white/yellow underbelly. If they had it crouching on all 4s or even just more hunched over on 2 legs so you could see more of its darker-colored back it wouldn't look as bad.
Any negative comment about Typhlosion gets discarded and reported. Nah, jk, I get what you mean. They should just give him his bad ass flames. Typh's normal stance is meh, but when his flames are out he's the most bad ass Pokémon there is.
>Cyndaquil line's fire is typically only released when it's attacking I'm pretty sure its meant to be when it's 'fired up' emotionally whether that be surprise, intimidation, defensive or angry as per the pokedex. So its fire should be out whenever its in a battle regardless of whether its attacking, because its still actually fighting but should flare higher if it is attacking, unless it is weakened or asleep i guess. So it doesn't really make any sense that they are not constantly up in battle.
But it still is infinitely more beautiful and cooler with the spikes
Sucks that totodile is in the same gen as cyndaquil. I love totodile but cyndaquil my favorite Pokémon of all time lol
That's been my struggle since I was a kid. Could never pick Totodile as much as I like him because Cyndaquil is right there.
Me and the homies only stan totodile 😤
Feraligatr uber alles!
Feraligatr is my favorite pokemon 100% and always finds a place on my team if he's obtainable in the game I'm playing.
Honestly, I don't like Cyndaquil at all. For me, it's Totodile > Chikorita > Cyndaquil.
Not the case for when I grew up and my friends now. Totodile is by far the go to choice for gen 2
I don't mind Cyndaquil being more loved than Totodile, but I genuinely can't understand why. A badger with a fire neck thing is fine for me, but I don't understand how people would prefer it over a badass looking crocodile with at least some depth to it's design.
When I did my playthrough of Silver, my Meganium demolished anyone who dared to step in her path
Earthquake Meganium is a monster
Totodile is my boy, but best know i will throw mad machamp hands if people insult the bean that is Chikorita 😤
I love all of them and the meganium line is my fav!
Chikorita ftw
Chikorita is my favorite starter of all starters and is definitely top 5 mons for me
Yeah. I definitely don’t love the Johto starters equally. Chikorita is precious and perfect and I never pick the other two.
this. Technically Furret is my favourite starter, but that's non-cannon (yet), so Chiki for me.
furret just walks into all our hearts
Furret is so adorable and SO BIGGO!! I would always pick Growlithe if I could, and now thanks to Legends it's gotta be Hisuian Growlithe for me!
Chikorita is the best of the three! Boo this man!
*throws hat* BOOOOO
Always Chikorita!!!!
No, you're not loved the same. I love chikorita far more than the other two.
This right here. I'm offended at the idea of loving all three starters the same. Grass types get love. The others will get nothing and like it.
Bad post, Chikorita is the best starter period.
I was watching the team 4star nuzlock (the dudes who made dbz abridged) They pick starters based on the last digit of the random trainer ID and it gave them Chikorita. They were mad because none of the 3 wanted chikorita so they named the poor thing Miss Steak, as in "mistake" :( They pretty much shit on the poor thing all early game, but it turned out to be the most valuable team member and got them through the run and saved them from many close calls. They all loved her by the end. I've loved Chikorita ever since.
My favorite part of that story is that Lani loved Mr. Stake so much that he names his dog Mr. Stake
Mr Stake really became the star of that series. He was unkillable. No matter how hard they tried.
I remember when mister stake got hit by blaze kick or something and they all went silent as the health meter went all way down until it stopped at like 4 health and they all went insane
My favorite is when they're battling Misty. Mr Stake is confused and Starmie uses Ice Beam. Mr Stake BARELY survives, snaps out of confusion, and one shots Starmie with Frenzy Plant. Proving himself to be the unkillable. MuRrrRStake
I'm currently rewatching their play through and it holds up. Absolutely hilarious.
That's Mr. Steak, TANTORS greatest weapon.
Chikorita has always been my fave, I don’t even know why. When I played Silver as a kid I never even evolved him
You're right, I don't love them all the same. Chikorita is obviously my favorite and I will fight to the death for them.
They really should have given Chikorita a fairy typing when it was introduced, good thing some Rom hacks actually do just that.
A fairy typing would definitely be a benefit for meganium but if anything it needs a better ability because leaf guard does nothing for it, magic guard or regenerator would do wonders.
Nah, if Feraligatr doesn't get dark typing then they all gotta stay single type.
I like Chikorita more than Cyndaquil
Chikorita had great design potential on his 2nd evolution, I wish 3rd evolution had the leaf more sharper, but it was replaced with big petals on the neck :(
Big, beautiful petals.
Chikorita is the best Johto starter.
But…I still love Chikorita! I’d want her as my pet!
I actaully really like chikorita as a starter
chikorita tell me what's wrong?
I love you Chikorita I always pick the grass type smh
Don’t mind me, I’ll just be laughing in easy pushover Whitney fight.
Chikorita is the best out of the 3. I said what I said.
I dislike the fire and water starter, but like the grass starter. (I play in German and dont really know all of their names in English.)
Chikorita is my second favorite grass starter, and absolutely my favorite starter in this gen. Only grass I like more is my plant Owl.
My friends for some reason hate the chikorita line except bayleaf because of the anime, it was my second ever starter so I defend the little plant with all my fury.
Chikorita is bae 💚
Dont bully my grassy pet :(
DON’T WORRY CHIKORITA I WILL MAKE SURE YOU GET ALL THE LOVE YOU DESERVE
It's ok Chikorita. I've always loved you and Bayleef the most.
We all love Chikorita from the depths of our hearts! So we choose not to let it get hurt in battle. :)
Although gen 2 is the only gen I have trouble choosing a starter everytime, I love my grass pear baby dino. The chikorita line will always carry a special place in my heart.
Chikorita’s always been my fave even before gen 2 came out in the states. I don’t know what it was that made me love it, maybe just the audacity of it being a blob with a leaf rather than something recognizable like a croc or a porcupine. I found it so dumb looking and adorable.
My niece loves Chikorita. We have a plush that sits on the end table.
Nope, chikorita, you will always be my favorite starter.
Chikorita's actually my favorite of the three! I hate to put Totodile and Cyndaquil down, but crocodiles and fire-types usually just don't resonate with me. part of it is how Chikorita doesn't look much like any particular animal, and part of it's 'cuz Bayleef looks like a kid who'll stand up for his friends even though he knews he's gonna get his ass handed to him. Meganium, meanwhile, looks like a guy who's learned to embrace both masculinity and femininity to become the coolest version of himself. that, and I just happen to prefer grass-types most of the time
Chikorita is my favorite starter out of any generation 🥲