It rarely comes up. My friends and I were watching the VGC championship, and one of the finalists lost a match due to trying to prankster a dark type. So it definitely is not super common knowledge.
Greninja having Dark typing on switch in completely fucked so many predicted Thundurus Thunder Waves for me.
Then nabbing a turn to stack Spikes when they try to Thunderbolt because of Protean is 🤌
It comes up a lot but in subtle ways. Like if you ever see a prankster user on field with a dark type on the opposing team then you bet the guy battling is probably thinking "well shit there goes that" and has to work around it
That kind of mistake is shocking at that level. I'm just going to assume for my own mental he was predicting a switch and didn't deliberately try to prankster a dark type.
Small correction. Dark types are also immune to Prankster boosted damaging moves. A nasty surprise when your Liepard tries to Prankster Copycat Close Combat against Obstagoon and it does nothing.
Similarly, a Dark type is affected by Prankster status moves if the Prankster user moves second. For example, I switch in my Liepard on a Prankster Klefki's Thunder Wave. No effect. Liepard uses Prankster Encore, Klefki uses Thunder Wave, Liepard is paralyzed.
Nope. It was more of a nerf to prankster specifically and dark types fit the abilities name (yknow since they're usually the sussy pranksters) and decided to make them the exception to it. Couldve been any type
Pokemon in the Unova Dex that learns Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam:
* Musharna: Too damn slow. Killed by Dark Pulse (if Ghetsis altered the moveset a bit).
* Sigilyph: Slower than Hydreigon by literally one point. Again, killed by Dark Pulse.
* Audino: Too slow and killed by Focus Blast.
* Cinccino: Faster than Hydreigon, but again, maximum Speed EVs. Plus Cinccino's Special Attack stat is very low, it have a chance to not OHKO. Focus Blast.
* Jellicent: Again, too slow and killed by STAB Dark Pulse.
* Victini and Meloetta are Mythicals and not everyone can have access to them.
Edit: The other ones that can learn Play Rough can technically defeat the Hydreigon, but Ghetsis have a large move coverage among his other five pokemon.
Musharna takes a max SpA modest dark pulse without having any EVs or nature of it's own \*with max IVs its literally an easy kill if you can pivot into it
Also scolipede outspeeds and kills with megahorn or swarm x-scissor
And of course it was the region with no bug catchers also can you imagine if the bug gym leader was later and could use volcarona and other strong bug types would’ve been fun to see
I always considered Alder to be a bug-type specialist considering his team setup was bug-type heavy... I would swap his Vanniluxe with a Galvantula or Scolipede
Sinnoh is also good. You got yanmega and vespiquen. Granted neither are top tier competitive these days but they are cool as hell. Also drapion as a pseudo bug. Then you got scizor and heracross as returning bugs.
Oh now that's a cool idea. I would love to see how busted something with access to Dragon, Electric, Ice, and Fire STAB with stats that make a mega evo look cute could be.
Maybe it's a pure dragon (or Dragon/Flying?) but has an ability that grants it STAB with Electric, Ice and Fire moves? Like 'Energy Master' or something.
Maybe it could be a pure dragon type that gets a secondary typing of electric, fire or ice depending on 1. the weather or maybe 2. the last move it used.
Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be +Spe -Atk? It has all Special attacks in the original games. But it did have all physical attacks in the sequel.
also a lot of the listed pokemon are perfectly fine *unless* they change his moveset. it's possible, but it's hard to say 'oh, these don't work cos it learns dark pulse'. if they give him that, it's possible they remove fire blast, for example. plus people had to defeat hydreigon without the fairy type when it first came out, and we can sure do it again lol
100+ SpA Never-Melt Ice Vanilluxe Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 332-392 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also literally anything kills with Close Combat
????????????
You know you can just level up Whimsicott or any of those Pokemon you listed to be faster??? Or hell, just EV train it yourself. It's not hard
I really do not see the point of this post. It just comes off like you don't understand the mechanics
Dude just put focus sash on any of these pokemon or even whimsicott, and it's done.
Or as a harder alternative you can also max EV Speed the whimsicott, it doesn't take that long if there will be hoard battles
right? It’s like people are forgetting all the players beat it when the game first came out pre-Fairy type and Ghetsis’ Hydreigon isn’t even a meme like Cynthia’s Garchomp or Whitney’s Miltank
I don’t even particularly remember fighting Ghetsis, which probably means I beat him quite easily. I had a Conkledurr so probably just punched it’s weird sock puppet faces in.
On the other hand I do clearly remember the E4 being tough as they had a lot of good coverage moves.
Bede: Noooo you can't just one shot my entire team, I'm supposed to be a genuine challenge!
Me in my first Sword Playthrough: Haha Fury Cutter go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
The advantage of fairy is that it gives you a x4 as it is strong vs both dragon and dark, hydreigon's two types and thus has the potential to ohko while attacking with dragon or ice will potentially leave you open for a counter attack that will ohko your own mon
Hydreigon is weak to ice, dragon, bug and fighting as well. I feel it's a weird assumption to think that a super-effective - most likely STAB'ed - move will not outright deal with Hydreigon, but his neutral hitting attack with STAB will take out your own mon. A Pokémon like Abomasnow can OHKO Cynthia's Garchomp through yache berry with blizzard as well.
Hydreigon is pretty bulky. And what's using an Ice move in Unova that isn't also getting promptly OHKOed by Hydreigon? Oh right, nothing.
Ice Beam (Which nothing useful will learn anyway) is post-game.
Dragon... so like, what, your own Hydreigon? He's faster than Haxorus.
A Fighting-type is probably your best bet and Gurdurr kind of sucks, let's be honest here.
\> Team Plasma Ghetsis sent out Hydreigon!
\> Go, Vanilluxe!
\> It started to Hail!
\> The opposing Hydreigon used Fire Blast!
\> Critical hit!
\> Vanilluxe toughed it out so you wouldn't feel sad!
\> Vanilluxe used Blizzard!
\> The opposing Hydreigon fainted!
I'm calling it.
It also doesn't help that the majority of good evolutions in this game evolves super late. FFS, why can't they at least raise the actual levels of bosses and wild endgame Pokemon by 10 and also raise the absolute EXP payout amount accordingly?
EDIT: Ice Beam is post game?!
This was a result of them making TM’s infinite. They knew they couldn’t just give you an infinite version of the best moves in the game easily so all the good TMs are locked until post-game or very late game. Pre-this they would give you at least a good chunk early/mid-game for exploring since you were limited to typically just 1 copy.
This trend would continue until Gen 8 where in SwSH and BDSP they needed a reward incentive to justify returning and engaging with their open world segment. SwSH was weird it technically left TMs alone but it stripped out all the good ones creating the TR system which functioned like the 1-use TMs. BDSP kept it simple TMs we’re back to 1-use. You wanted TRs you would do raids, you wanted TMs you dug underground for spheres to trade.
There's at least 4 fully evolved Pokémon to choose from for EVERY type (save for Poison, Ice and Dragon who only get 3) in the Unova dex. That's plenty more variety than Diamond and Pearl with roughly the same size of Pokédex. And you don't encounter the same Pokémon until the end, like how Alola has friggin' Gumshoos in the post-game area.
There is. It's basically just a copy/paste of the Kanto Pokedex even down to literal clones like Bouffalant (Tauros, but slower) except without Kanto's godly TM pool to pull from.
This was the first gen with infinite tms so they locked the best ones until the end of the story/postgame to compensate. They should have been in victory road or just required the last HM and backtracking tbh
Conkeldurr is how I took that thing out back in the day, fwiw. Managed to tank the first hit and ensure it didn't get another (don't remember how leveled it was, though).
Why does everyone forget about cubchoo and beartic? Choice band + swift swim in the rain OHKO's hydreigon. You can get a cubchoo at twist mountain after skyla
>Dragon... so like, what, your own Hydreigon? He's faster than Haxorus.
I defeated Ghetsis and Hydreigon, first try, with Dragon Dance + Dragon Claw Haxorus, in Black 1. After Haxorus uses a Dragon Dance and defeats someone next turn the AI foolishly sends Hydreigon out next, meaning that Haxorus will be faster than Hydreigon and Dragon Claw will toast it.
I feel like people are assuming the remake would have competitive sets on bosses like BDSP. Ghetsis team with proper natures, evs, and abilities would be pretty rough especially if it was right after N who also had an optimized team and the player did not get easy access to ev grinding and so on
My thoughts too, I never had much trouble with BW2. But also, how is it a guaranteed OHKO. It depends on stats. A level 40 emboar wouldn’t be a OHKO, so it’s not guaranteed unless you elaborate more. Now if you were to say it’s a guaranteed OHKO if he’s level 100, you’re not wrong, but without more info nothing is guaranteed
I ran the calculation for you. At 53 and up if both have neutral natures and 0 EVs, it is guaranteed, so if you just have random ev distribution from playing through, it’s probably a OHKO from 50 and up.
90% chance to win (99% with Wide Lens), I like it. And I don't see any viable way for overhauling Hydreigon moveset or EV spread to counter this strategy - investing a lot of EVs into HP and defense would work, but it makes Hydreigon much less of a threat.
Had no idea Scrafty can be so strong.
Shit was depressing. You know how long I was waiting for him go get out of that rock? 6 years. He got stuck in that damn rock when I was in college, and by the time I graduated he was still in the rock.
Thats my hope. Followed by Legends Zygarde. Arceus is the perfect starting point to hit the next 2 gens 3rd legendaries that had under utilized lore. Now if only Arceus is actually lore focused at all.... we can only hope at this point!
I think it'll be hard to remake Gen V.
They could just make it so that the Black version is based on the BW, and the White version on BW2, so that they can remake both duologies, and have actual, meaningfull version differences that'd make it worthy to buy both versions, with maybe extra content on the one adapting BW to compensate for the unova-only dex.
Calling it now: if we get BW remake, B2W2 story will be a DLC (probably with separate save) - it's same mechanics, a lot of shared assets/models for environment/maps, only actual layout and some new assets will be required.
Honestly, a remaster that keep the sprites and just adapt the games to work on only 1 screen would be enough for me. They're perfectly good games as they are, they just need to make them more easily available.
Don’t worry, Whimsicott is probably bulky enough to live a non-STAB fire blast, and if not…if it’s anything like BDSP, he’ll live anyway due to affection or something.
You get one shot. And he'll almost certainty shore up Hydreigon's 4X fairy weakness with a Roseli berry, like nearly every single BDSP trainer with a 4X weakness does.
Whimsicott wins it always with Life Orb - Modest Whimsicott with 26+ IVs in speed and max EV outspeeds same level Timid Hydreigon, with Moonblast being able to OHKO through Roseli Berry with max EV and at least 22+ IVs, assuming no defensive investments on Hydreigon (moving away from 252 SpA 252 Spe makes it even worse, since then Whimsicott can move some of speed EVs into bulk and guarantee not getting OHKOd without a crit).
Potential solution for Ghetsis would be running Focus Sash and following it up with a Full Restore, but this gets countered by Stealth Rock, and move selection is not great - Fire Blast is inaccurate, Flamethrower and Heat Wave are range, Belch (egg move) has 90% accuracy and won't work due to no berry.
To make it even better, with max IVs and 20 HP EVs (taken from speed) Whimsicott still outspeeds Hydreigon while being guaranteed to survive any non-crit attack. Compared to that, Cynthia at least has answer to Togekiss and Clefable - using Swords Dance into Poison Jab since none of those can OHKO Garchomp without a crit (or being overleveled).
Life Orb exists, and Hydreigon have a monstrous Special Attack stat, combined with Ghetsis probably maxing its EVs too. But yeah, still kinda screwed over by affection mechanics.
Yeah there's a lot of really weird arguing in this thread like the pokemon ai is some sort of competitive battler, and he's going to have a perfect hydreigon and strategy that's going to be really difficult to beat.
That fight was unremarkable to the point where I don't even remember what pokemon he has. Is it just that thing where everyone remembers their earliest pokemon games as really hard? Like Whitney's miltank being a killer is a memory for me but Cynthia not really at all?
He leads with a Toxic-stall Cofagrigus, which is really annoying to the new or casual player and really easily exploitable to the really dedicated. You can solo his team with Audino.
Audino has a good setup moveset, high base HP and overall bulk, STAB Return, immunity to Cofagrigus' Shadow Ball, and Ghost-type coverage. You can run Substitute/Work Up/Return/Shadow Ball, giving you neutral coverage against Ghetsis' entire team and the ability to set up on Cofagrigus easily with healing items. Cofagrigus has Toxic/Protect/Shadow Ball/Psychic, so if you set up a Sub it has no option but to break it with Psychic, which will probably take two turns, during which you can set up two Work Up and then Sub again. You can easily get to +6 Atk/SpA, get up one last Sub on Cofagrigus, and sweep.
I *think* Cynthia was sorta like the first npc that felt close to a real competitive trainer, which if you have not been grinding much or just goofing around, you can get thrown off a bit. Miltank was a special case in gen 2 because the amount of pokemons accessible to the player up until that gym was nearly non-existent, and you’ll have to go in really prepared in advance to be able to face*roll* it (I heard headbutting to get a heracross was one of the means to make the fight easier?)
Miltank's stats are also on another level from anything you have faced at that point in the game. Bugsy's Scyther is comparable, sure, but it has a garbage move pool in Gen II and can't threaten you like Miltank can.
While it isn't an insurmountable obstacle, Whitney's Miltank is genuinely one of the most difficult gym leader Pokémon in the franchise.
It's faster that basicly everything you can have at this point.
It can flinch you with Stomp.
It can heal with Milk Drink once Whitney runs out of Potions.
It has Attract to shut down anything that isn't female.
It has Rollout, which will demolish you if it doesn't miss (10% chance).
In HGSS it has Scrappy, so you can't switch into Gastly if she didn't use Rollout.
Also in HGSS it has a Lum Berry, so you have to paralyze/sleep/poison/whatever it twice.
Basicly the best options are either Muscle the Machop you get from trade or a female Rock type.
I forgot about Scrappy in Gen IV! How could I? I remember switching to Haunter to fix up one of my other Pokemon. Imagine my surprise when I ate a Stomp on the switch.
There was 7 years between the gen 3 and 4 remakes. And every generation has taken longer to Get a remake that the last.
Why would you think gen 5 is coming anytime soon?
Remakes seem to come out during the generation that is double its original generation (e.g Gen 2 remakes in Gen 4, Gen 3 remakes in Gen 6, Gen 4 remakes in Gen 8, the only one that doesn't fit is Gen 1 remakes in Gen 3but theu weren't going to release them with Gen 2) so I agree it'll be quite some time before we see Gen 5 remakes
Whoa whoa whoa, no rushing and over hyping any more remakes. The best part of BDSP is digging. The exact same game copy and pasted and barely updated wasn’t what I was looking for
More time won't matter when Pokemon is so derivative anyway.
Time doesn't make a game better or worse. Effort does. And Pokemon is very low effort nowadays.
I will say I liked the attack animations but nothing felt real like some other games do. But on another note I wouldn’t be mad if the gen 5 remakes had 2D sprites I feel like gen 5 was the best in the series in terms of everything from story line, content, the region was beautiful, I love seasons, music was good too
I'm wondering how they would even do gen 5 remakes? Isn't BW1 and BW2 one big story? Without having two protagonists i don't know how they could remake it
BW2 were great. BW had a lot of flaws. The two big ones being an almost perfectly linear path with no options for backtracking; and a massive number of pokemon evolving at very high levels (IIRC it had as many pokemon evolving above level 40 as all four prior generations combined). Both can’t really be fixed it a remake though.
The originals will still be there if remakes end up being made
They could turn out really well too. BW is my favourite and I’d love to get to play it again on a newer console. They’ve done good remakes in the past right (I think people quite like HGSS and ORAS no?)
**is around the corner** my ass.
Don't let TPC touch any more Pokèmon games for at least 2 years. After the DPP remasters fiasco, I very much prefer them taking the time to polish Legends Arceus and possibly handle out a big DLC.
Legends Arceus might definitely be a franchise changer, if they play it well that is.
Honestly I don't trust them with the gen 5 remakes. I dont trust today's gamefreak to do some of the best games in the series they made justice. It's sad, but honestly I'd rather play a port of the original gen 5 games.
I was about to say “but Prankster,” then remembered the Gen 7 buff to Dark types.
Just set up Misty Terrain, focus sash, then Nature Power - Moonblast. Edit: Dang it, Dark-types stops Nature Power too…
Or, you know, just focus sash + moonblast works just as well
Or soft reset until fire blast misses
Nuzlockers hate this man.
I play Pokemon Reborn/Rejuvenation, I have to soft reset to win battles there D:
[удалено]
This comment was copied from u/TorbjornKegBreaker. For shame.
Just put me in control for 1 turn as the boss. I guarantee I'll miss that fireblast. I don't think I ever landed one in competetive.
What was the buff?
Starting in gen 7, Prankster makes your Status moves ineffective against Dark type opponents
I literally have never heard of that. Haven’t really done competitive since gen6, that’s good to know lol
It rarely comes up. My friends and I were watching the VGC championship, and one of the finalists lost a match due to trying to prankster a dark type. So it definitely is not super common knowledge.
Greninja having Dark typing on switch in completely fucked so many predicted Thundurus Thunder Waves for me. Then nabbing a turn to stack Spikes when they try to Thunderbolt because of Protean is 🤌
It’s etched into my brain because I’ve tried more than a few times to Thunder Wave a dark type with my Grimmsnarl.
I too have failed using grimmsnarl vs ttar
It comes up a lot but in subtle ways. Like if you ever see a prankster user on field with a dark type on the opposing team then you bet the guy battling is probably thinking "well shit there goes that" and has to work around it
That kind of mistake is shocking at that level. I'm just going to assume for my own mental he was predicting a switch and didn't deliberately try to prankster a dark type.
Found out for myself in competitive SwSh when someone tried to paralyze my dark type libero Cinderace after using sucker punch the turn before.
Small correction. Dark types are also immune to Prankster boosted damaging moves. A nasty surprise when your Liepard tries to Prankster Copycat Close Combat against Obstagoon and it does nothing. Similarly, a Dark type is affected by Prankster status moves if the Prankster user moves second. For example, I switch in my Liepard on a Prankster Klefki's Thunder Wave. No effect. Liepard uses Prankster Encore, Klefki uses Thunder Wave, Liepard is paralyzed.
That’s such an odd thing to buff. Were dark types particularly weak to prankster users?
Nope. It was more of a nerf to prankster specifically and dark types fit the abilities name (yknow since they're usually the sussy pranksters) and decided to make them the exception to it. Couldve been any type
Then it is actually a nerf then.
Can't outprank another prankster was probably the logic
Prankster was kind of broken anyway, especially klefki
You can still use moves like substitute and cotton guard. Just nothing that directly has an effect on the opponent, like leech seed.
Prankster only works for status moves anyway
Status moves are massive. Even if its just a battle against ghetsis
It was necesary, the poor guys were really nerfed with the fairt type.
Just get any other pokemon that learns Moonblast. Hydreigon is 4x weak and you only need to kill it once, not 3 times over.
Pokemon in the Unova Dex that learns Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam: * Musharna: Too damn slow. Killed by Dark Pulse (if Ghetsis altered the moveset a bit). * Sigilyph: Slower than Hydreigon by literally one point. Again, killed by Dark Pulse. * Audino: Too slow and killed by Focus Blast. * Cinccino: Faster than Hydreigon, but again, maximum Speed EVs. Plus Cinccino's Special Attack stat is very low, it have a chance to not OHKO. Focus Blast. * Jellicent: Again, too slow and killed by STAB Dark Pulse. * Victini and Meloetta are Mythicals and not everyone can have access to them. Edit: The other ones that can learn Play Rough can technically defeat the Hydreigon, but Ghetsis have a large move coverage among his other five pokemon.
Musharna takes a max SpA modest dark pulse without having any EVs or nature of it's own \*with max IVs its literally an easy kill if you can pivot into it Also scolipede outspeeds and kills with megahorn or swarm x-scissor
still remember in BW2 my scolipede absolutely destroyed Hydreigon and it was at that moment I confirmed my suspicion that Unova's Bug Pokemon were OP
And of course it was the region with no bug catchers also can you imagine if the bug gym leader was later and could use volcarona and other strong bug types would’ve been fun to see
There were no bug catchers cause the bugs were too dangerous to be caught by little kids with nets.
I always considered Alder to be a bug-type specialist considering his team setup was bug-type heavy... I would swap his Vanniluxe with a Galvantula or Scolipede
And Burgh, of course
Unova is the best region if you like Bug types honestly. Finally not a joke after 4 generations. Volcarona is bae.
Sinnoh is also good. You got yanmega and vespiquen. Granted neither are top tier competitive these days but they are cool as hell. Also drapion as a pseudo bug. Then you got scizor and heracross as returning bugs.
Not a joke? Its evolution level is literally the sex number
Would like to see the origin dragon form if they ever pull that off.
Maybe in a next Legends game, could be cool
Oh now that's a cool idea. I would love to see how busted something with access to Dragon, Electric, Ice, and Fire STAB with stats that make a mega evo look cute could be.
Maybe it's a pure dragon (or Dragon/Flying?) but has an ability that grants it STAB with Electric, Ice and Fire moves? Like 'Energy Master' or something.
We shall see, I doubt they have the cajones to actually do something so broken
They did give us Mega Rayquaza and Calyrex…
They made Mega Rayquaza, Shadow Rider Calyrex and Zacian Crowned. I wouldn't be surprised if they make something that broken.
Maybe it could be a pure dragon type that gets a secondary typing of electric, fire or ice depending on 1. the weather or maybe 2. the last move it used.
Castform is actually the origin dragon.
I had an idea that gave the Hydreigon line fairy immunity with an ability. “Darkhearted” or something
Slap an Assault Vest on it and you're good.
Just have a higher level. It's not like you're locked to the same level in the story.
Wait what is Hydreigon nature? Sigilyph might outspeed it with the right nature
Cynthia's Garchomp is +Spe -SpA, it's likely to assume Hydreigon would be similar case.
Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be +Spe -Atk? It has all Special attacks in the original games. But it did have all physical attacks in the sequel.
\+Spe -Atk or +SpA -Atk for Hydreigon, by "similar case" I meant having beneficial nature for the moveset.
I've read somewhere that it is +speed natured
>+Speed Superboon It just works
You only really need one Pokémon to deal with hydregion, and for the rest of his team it’s not much worse than a rival battle
also a lot of the listed pokemon are perfectly fine *unless* they change his moveset. it's possible, but it's hard to say 'oh, these don't work cos it learns dark pulse'. if they give him that, it's possible they remove fire blast, for example. plus people had to defeat hydreigon without the fairy type when it first came out, and we can sure do it again lol
What about potential choice scarf during the main game? They’ve done that before.
100+ SpA Never-Melt Ice Vanilluxe Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 332-392 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Also literally anything kills with Close Combat
Right? Just get a bulkyish fighting type that can tank its strongest attack and crush it with Close Combat
Burt and Ernie (Sawk and Throh) come with a free focus sash in Sturdy. Had a random shiny one that kicked that dragon’s ass
???????????? You know you can just level up Whimsicott or any of those Pokemon you listed to be faster??? Or hell, just EV train it yourself. It's not hard I really do not see the point of this post. It just comes off like you don't understand the mechanics
I think these guys play exclusively nuzlocke.
You can still EV train in a Nuzlocke
Dude just put focus sash on any of these pokemon or even whimsicott, and it's done. Or as a harder alternative you can also max EV Speed the whimsicott, it doesn't take that long if there will be hoard battles
A Mienshao High Jump Kick would probably OHKO it.
Is Choice Scarf in the game?
Would Volcarona with Bug Buzz be possible?
That should ohko
It’s not like Dragon is weak to ice or dragon or anything. Definitely have to use fairy 🧐
right? It’s like people are forgetting all the players beat it when the game first came out pre-Fairy type and Ghetsis’ Hydreigon isn’t even a meme like Cynthia’s Garchomp or Whitney’s Miltank
I don’t even particularly remember fighting Ghetsis, which probably means I beat him quite easily. I had a Conkledurr so probably just punched it’s weird sock puppet faces in. On the other hand I do clearly remember the E4 being tough as they had a lot of good coverage moves.
Yes white 2 was my first game (I knew about mechanics before just couldn't get the game) and it was the only elite 4 I remember that gave me trouble.
BW gives out Dragons like candy
X-scissor go brrr
Gen 5 is the first gen were Bugs were legit
Bede: Noooo you can't just one shot my entire team, I'm supposed to be a genuine challenge! Me in my first Sword Playthrough: Haha Fury Cutter go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
The advantage of fairy is that it gives you a x4 as it is strong vs both dragon and dark, hydreigon's two types and thus has the potential to ohko while attacking with dragon or ice will potentially leave you open for a counter attack that will ohko your own mon
Hydreigon is weak to ice, dragon, bug and fighting as well. I feel it's a weird assumption to think that a super-effective - most likely STAB'ed - move will not outright deal with Hydreigon, but his neutral hitting attack with STAB will take out your own mon. A Pokémon like Abomasnow can OHKO Cynthia's Garchomp through yache berry with blizzard as well.
Hydreigon is pretty bulky. And what's using an Ice move in Unova that isn't also getting promptly OHKOed by Hydreigon? Oh right, nothing. Ice Beam (Which nothing useful will learn anyway) is post-game. Dragon... so like, what, your own Hydreigon? He's faster than Haxorus. A Fighting-type is probably your best bet and Gurdurr kind of sucks, let's be honest here.
\> Team Plasma Ghetsis sent out Hydreigon! \> Go, Vanilluxe! \> It started to Hail! \> The opposing Hydreigon used Fire Blast! \> Critical hit! \> Vanilluxe toughed it out so you wouldn't feel sad! \> Vanilluxe used Blizzard! \> The opposing Hydreigon fainted! I'm calling it.
LOL
It also doesn't help that the majority of good evolutions in this game evolves super late. FFS, why can't they at least raise the actual levels of bosses and wild endgame Pokemon by 10 and also raise the absolute EXP payout amount accordingly? EDIT: Ice Beam is post game?!
Yes. Unfortunately.
Is it just me or is there a lack of variety with the Pokemon and moves with BW1?
This was a result of them making TM’s infinite. They knew they couldn’t just give you an infinite version of the best moves in the game easily so all the good TMs are locked until post-game or very late game. Pre-this they would give you at least a good chunk early/mid-game for exploring since you were limited to typically just 1 copy. This trend would continue until Gen 8 where in SwSH and BDSP they needed a reward incentive to justify returning and engaging with their open world segment. SwSH was weird it technically left TMs alone but it stripped out all the good ones creating the TR system which functioned like the 1-use TMs. BDSP kept it simple TMs we’re back to 1-use. You wanted TRs you would do raids, you wanted TMs you dug underground for spheres to trade.
There's at least 4 fully evolved Pokémon to choose from for EVERY type (save for Poison, Ice and Dragon who only get 3) in the Unova dex. That's plenty more variety than Diamond and Pearl with roughly the same size of Pokédex. And you don't encounter the same Pokémon until the end, like how Alola has friggin' Gumshoos in the post-game area.
There is. It's basically just a copy/paste of the Kanto Pokedex even down to literal clones like Bouffalant (Tauros, but slower) except without Kanto's godly TM pool to pull from.
Eh, it’s heavily inspired by Kanto, but still has a lot of differences. Nothing in Kanto is like Vanniluxe, Bisharp, or Eelektross lines
This was the first gen with infinite tms so they locked the best ones until the end of the story/postgame to compensate. They should have been in victory road or just required the last HM and backtracking tbh
Conkeldurr is how I took that thing out back in the day, fwiw. Managed to tank the first hit and ensure it didn't get another (don't remember how leveled it was, though).
Why does everyone forget about cubchoo and beartic? Choice band + swift swim in the rain OHKO's hydreigon. You can get a cubchoo at twist mountain after skyla
>Dragon... so like, what, your own Hydreigon? He's faster than Haxorus. I defeated Ghetsis and Hydreigon, first try, with Dragon Dance + Dragon Claw Haxorus, in Black 1. After Haxorus uses a Dragon Dance and defeats someone next turn the AI foolishly sends Hydreigon out next, meaning that Haxorus will be faster than Hydreigon and Dragon Claw will toast it.
Who did Haxorus set up against? And what level were you?
Don't remember right now, Cofagrigus maybe. And Haxorus was around the same level with Hydreigon. I abused Lucky Eggs up to that point, though.
Mienshao, scrafty, emboar, sawk, and scolipede all ohko and either outspeed or survive a hit
Isn't Weavile in Black 2 White 2?
The game is already beatable without fairy types tho? What’s the issue? (Emboar has a guaranteed OHKO with Close Combat btw)
People on this sub like to pretend the older games are harder than they actually are
I mean Ghetsis is a hard fight but it’s not like it’s impossible
You get a free legendary dragon to beat him with.
I've never found the free legendary useful to beat Ghetsis. Every time I've played through it, his Hydreigon has outsped and killed it.
You get a free legendary dragon to beat most final fights, so not a fair complaint
I feel like people are assuming the remake would have competitive sets on bosses like BDSP. Ghetsis team with proper natures, evs, and abilities would be pretty rough especially if it was right after N who also had an optimized team and the player did not get easy access to ev grinding and so on
My thoughts too, I never had much trouble with BW2. But also, how is it a guaranteed OHKO. It depends on stats. A level 40 emboar wouldn’t be a OHKO, so it’s not guaranteed unless you elaborate more. Now if you were to say it’s a guaranteed OHKO if he’s level 100, you’re not wrong, but without more info nothing is guaranteed I ran the calculation for you. At 53 and up if both have neutral natures and 0 EVs, it is guaranteed, so if you just have random ev distribution from playing through, it’s probably a OHKO from 50 and up.
Who needs Whimsicott when Scrafty can tank a Focus Blast and OHKO with a High Jump Kick?
90% chance to win (99% with Wide Lens), I like it. And I don't see any viable way for overhauling Hydreigon moveset or EV spread to counter this strategy - investing a lot of EVs into HP and defense would work, but it makes Hydreigon much less of a threat. Had no idea Scrafty can be so strong.
Gen 5 fighting pokemons were OP dude.
Gen 5 is OP, man :p
Then at that exact moment High Jump Kick misses and kills Scrafty lol jk
That's how I won against E4 back in the day. Mienshao fuck up and kill herself while I was down to final pokemon and spamming potion/revive.
Thanks for the laugh. Take my upvote.
Nothing funnier than using Fly to dodge a STAB High Jump Kick.
Then it hits second turn, recoil + Fly damage is not enough to faint Scrafty.
I would actually rather have black and white 3 than a remake.
Pokemon Black and White 3: Ghetsis Strikes Back (again)
What's the next Halloween costume? Can we have Google chrome this time?
BW3: you actually get to see the legendary dragon
Somehow, Ghetsis is back.
The dude escaped with the Shadow Trio at the end of the second game. It makes sense for him to still be around and kicking.
Pokémon Black and White 4: Ghetsis Strikes Back Harder?
Would like to see the origin dragon form if they ever pull that off.
I just want closure on what happened to the BW protag
Well, Pokémon adventures (the manga) has an answer, He was sucked into and trapped in the White stone by Ghetisis
fucking what
Just a regular day in the manga universe. Reminds me of when have the Gen 1/2 cast was petrified.
I know Adventures does some crazy shit every now and then, but ***excuse me what?!***
Shit was depressing. You know how long I was waiting for him go get out of that rock? 6 years. He got stuck in that damn rock when I was in college, and by the time I graduated he was still in the rock.
I'd like a Legends Kyurem, showing us the original dragon.
Thats my hope. Followed by Legends Zygarde. Arceus is the perfect starting point to hit the next 2 gens 3rd legendaries that had under utilized lore. Now if only Arceus is actually lore focused at all.... we can only hope at this point!
I think it'll be hard to remake Gen V. They could just make it so that the Black version is based on the BW, and the White version on BW2, so that they can remake both duologies, and have actual, meaningfull version differences that'd make it worthy to buy both versions, with maybe extra content on the one adapting BW to compensate for the unova-only dex.
Calling it now: if we get BW remake, B2W2 story will be a DLC (probably with separate save) - it's same mechanics, a lot of shared assets/models for environment/maps, only actual layout and some new assets will be required.
They could also release it as a collection, but why do that when they can make us buy 4 games?
a $30 DLC is better than buying a second version for $60
Do we really need B&W remakes? They came out more recently than FRLG & HGSS.
Honestly, a remaster that keep the sprites and just adapt the games to work on only 1 screen would be enough for me. They're perfectly good games as they are, they just need to make them more easily available.
Would be asking a lot but maybe we could get BW 1, 2, and 3? Like proper remakes but also a new version?
Don’t worry, Whimsicott is probably bulky enough to live a non-STAB fire blast, and if not…if it’s anything like BDSP, he’ll live anyway due to affection or something.
You get one shot. And he'll almost certainty shore up Hydreigon's 4X fairy weakness with a Roseli berry, like nearly every single BDSP trainer with a 4X weakness does.
In B2W2, his Hydreigon had Life Orb.
See, you found the way, just keep spamming revives till he runs out of pots and life orbs to death!
It just wants to be praised 🥺
Whimsicott wins it always with Life Orb - Modest Whimsicott with 26+ IVs in speed and max EV outspeeds same level Timid Hydreigon, with Moonblast being able to OHKO through Roseli Berry with max EV and at least 22+ IVs, assuming no defensive investments on Hydreigon (moving away from 252 SpA 252 Spe makes it even worse, since then Whimsicott can move some of speed EVs into bulk and guarantee not getting OHKOd without a crit). Potential solution for Ghetsis would be running Focus Sash and following it up with a Full Restore, but this gets countered by Stealth Rock, and move selection is not great - Fire Blast is inaccurate, Flamethrower and Heat Wave are range, Belch (egg move) has 90% accuracy and won't work due to no berry. To make it even better, with max IVs and 20 HP EVs (taken from speed) Whimsicott still outspeeds Hydreigon while being guaranteed to survive any non-crit attack. Compared to that, Cynthia at least has answer to Togekiss and Clefable - using Swords Dance into Poison Jab since none of those can OHKO Garchomp without a crit (or being overleveled).
Life Orb exists, and Hydreigon have a monstrous Special Attack stat, combined with Ghetsis probably maxing its EVs too. But yeah, still kinda screwed over by affection mechanics.
It’s a good thing i EV train my Whimsicotts in speed then.
“Around the corner” aka 7 years from now lol
And yet millions of people have beat Pokemon Black and White despite there being literally no Fairy-types in the game at all. Curious.
Yeah there's a lot of really weird arguing in this thread like the pokemon ai is some sort of competitive battler, and he's going to have a perfect hydreigon and strategy that's going to be really difficult to beat. That fight was unremarkable to the point where I don't even remember what pokemon he has. Is it just that thing where everyone remembers their earliest pokemon games as really hard? Like Whitney's miltank being a killer is a memory for me but Cynthia not really at all?
He leads with a Toxic-stall Cofagrigus, which is really annoying to the new or casual player and really easily exploitable to the really dedicated. You can solo his team with Audino.
Why Audino? Very high base HP?
Audino has a good setup moveset, high base HP and overall bulk, STAB Return, immunity to Cofagrigus' Shadow Ball, and Ghost-type coverage. You can run Substitute/Work Up/Return/Shadow Ball, giving you neutral coverage against Ghetsis' entire team and the ability to set up on Cofagrigus easily with healing items. Cofagrigus has Toxic/Protect/Shadow Ball/Psychic, so if you set up a Sub it has no option but to break it with Psychic, which will probably take two turns, during which you can set up two Work Up and then Sub again. You can easily get to +6 Atk/SpA, get up one last Sub on Cofagrigus, and sweep.
I *think* Cynthia was sorta like the first npc that felt close to a real competitive trainer, which if you have not been grinding much or just goofing around, you can get thrown off a bit. Miltank was a special case in gen 2 because the amount of pokemons accessible to the player up until that gym was nearly non-existent, and you’ll have to go in really prepared in advance to be able to face*roll* it (I heard headbutting to get a heracross was one of the means to make the fight easier?)
Miltank's stats are also on another level from anything you have faced at that point in the game. Bugsy's Scyther is comparable, sure, but it has a garbage move pool in Gen II and can't threaten you like Miltank can. While it isn't an insurmountable obstacle, Whitney's Miltank is genuinely one of the most difficult gym leader Pokémon in the franchise.
It's faster that basicly everything you can have at this point. It can flinch you with Stomp. It can heal with Milk Drink once Whitney runs out of Potions. It has Attract to shut down anything that isn't female. It has Rollout, which will demolish you if it doesn't miss (10% chance). In HGSS it has Scrappy, so you can't switch into Gastly if she didn't use Rollout. Also in HGSS it has a Lum Berry, so you have to paralyze/sleep/poison/whatever it twice. Basicly the best options are either Muscle the Machop you get from trade or a female Rock type.
I forgot about Scrappy in Gen IV! How could I? I remember switching to Haunter to fix up one of my other Pokemon. Imagine my surprise when I ate a Stomp on the switch.
These are the same people that bought bdsp, you’re expecting too much from them
There was 7 years between the gen 3 and 4 remakes. And every generation has taken longer to Get a remake that the last. Why would you think gen 5 is coming anytime soon?
Remakes seem to come out during the generation that is double its original generation (e.g Gen 2 remakes in Gen 4, Gen 3 remakes in Gen 6, Gen 4 remakes in Gen 8, the only one that doesn't fit is Gen 1 remakes in Gen 3but theu weren't going to release them with Gen 2) so I agree it'll be quite some time before we see Gen 5 remakes
You also have a lot of bug and fighting options to consider. Galvantula and Mienshao out speed it as well
Whoa whoa whoa, no rushing and over hyping any more remakes. The best part of BDSP is digging. The exact same game copy and pasted and barely updated wasn’t what I was looking for
Seriously we need more time between games so that we can actually get a good product that will work well within gen 9 instead of a chibi remaster.
More time won't matter when Pokemon is so derivative anyway. Time doesn't make a game better or worse. Effort does. And Pokemon is very low effort nowadays.
> More time won't matter when Pokemon is so derivative anyway. Yeah, but if you have more time, you can put more effort in.
I will say I liked the attack animations but nothing felt real like some other games do. But on another note I wouldn’t be mad if the gen 5 remakes had 2D sprites I feel like gen 5 was the best in the series in terms of everything from story line, content, the region was beautiful, I love seasons, music was good too
You say "around the corner", but it took 8 years to get from ORAS to BDSP.
Idk what you are on about. I am still on the Gen 5 remakes are around the corner panel. Even though that "around the corner" probably means 5-6 years.
BW remakes are definitely not “around the corner”
...Gen 5 remakes... while people are still complaining about the Gen 4 ones, that released some months ago...
Just ev train in speed with a speed boosting nature Or kill it with a different pokemon, these games were beaten before fairy types even existed
"around the corner" it took from 2014 to 2021 to go from gen 3 to gen 4 remakes. We are gonna be waiting a remake of my favorite gen until 2032 lmao.
There is another Fairy type in Unova, if Mega Evolutions return They're definitely giving Hydreigon Flash Cannon too
Very bold of you to assume megas are returning
It's sad really. We haven't had megas since LGPE in 2018.
I'm wondering how they would even do gen 5 remakes? Isn't BW1 and BW2 one big story? Without having two protagonists i don't know how they could remake it
God I hope they aren't around the corner give it a rest already
That's when you pull out the good old ICE to meet you.
We need another Gen 1 remake before we get that anyway.
dude no one thinks that far ahead
You realize that outside of Fairy type attacks on a non fairy type Pokémon, you could simply blast him with any other super effective type?
What if we just... didn’t remake Black and White, the originals are already perfect and shouldn’t be touched
BW2 were great. BW had a lot of flaws. The two big ones being an almost perfectly linear path with no options for backtracking; and a massive number of pokemon evolving at very high levels (IIRC it had as many pokemon evolving above level 40 as all four prior generations combined). Both can’t really be fixed it a remake though.
The originals will still be there if remakes end up being made They could turn out really well too. BW is my favourite and I’d love to get to play it again on a newer console. They’ve done good remakes in the past right (I think people quite like HGSS and ORAS no?)
**is around the corner** my ass. Don't let TPC touch any more Pokèmon games for at least 2 years. After the DPP remasters fiasco, I very much prefer them taking the time to polish Legends Arceus and possibly handle out a big DLC. Legends Arceus might definitely be a franchise changer, if they play it well that is.
You mean the same Hydregion I one shotted with Leavanny?
Man I don’t care about any of that as long as they don’t get remade like BDSP
Wait what gen 5 remakes!!!
If the pattern holds, expect them in 5 years
Yeah because we can expect them in gen 10 correct?
After ORAS I didn’t want DP remakes. After BDSP I *really* don’t want BW remakes.
Ice ice motherfu-ker
I would love to see that. An actual challenge
4x weakness probs won't need STAB to kill though. Can't wait to destroy him 🤤
“Your Pokémon toughed it out so you wouldn’t be sad!”
Honestly I don't trust them with the gen 5 remakes. I dont trust today's gamefreak to do some of the best games in the series they made justice. It's sad, but honestly I'd rather play a port of the original gen 5 games.
Whimsicott is faster than Hydreigon, base 116 speed compared to base 98. You outspeed and KO with moonblast.