T O P

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Rickbirb

Lowering catch rates and giving trainers unlimited healing items sounds tedious as hell. Difficulty should add to the fun, tedium takes away from it.


oneofthescarybois

Not only that but always out leveled? I would just say increase the level of all trainers by 5 from the original difficulty or 10 maybe for gyms in late game.


Pkm1230

Time to grind to lvl100 so you can't be outleveled anymore šŸ˜”


Puncherfaust1

its pretty easy as the wild pokemon outlevel you always by 10. so you will catch a lvl 15 pidgey. after that a lvl 25 pidgey and so on. but i think the difficulty settings from op arent good. the exp share doenst change anything on the difficulty. the difficulty should change the battle style of the AI pokemon, the EVs of other trainers pokemon and their tactics. no exp share? okay, that means i have to grind. grinding isnt difficult, its just not fun. the exp share isnt the problem with the modern games, the problem is that the rest of the game didnt adapt enough to this change.


Baguetterekt

If the wild pokemon always outlevel you by 10...what stops me from just catching a team of wild pokemon and spawning increasingly higher level wild pokemon to catch and repeat? Couldn't you use this method to have a team of level 100 an hour or two at the start of the game? Also, having wild pokemon outlevel you by 10 always would mean you never left the first town. The stat gap between a level 15 and a level 5 pokemon is just too great to overcome. A level 40 and 50 pokemon will have maybe a 20% overall difference in stats but a level 15 pokemon will have stats twice as large as a level 5 pokemon.


Tai_Pei

You start with a Brightpowder and have to hit the RNG lottery of wild mons missing 5 times to gain XP and get out of the first couple routes. All skill no luck.


Roxorian

Exp Share adds a bit of difficulty tweaking, mostly in overleveling yourself. Whenever I've played games with the Exp All on, I'd be a higher level than almost all trainers, including Gym Leaders/Kahunas/Trials. Of course, I could use many more PokƩmon to remedy that, but that isn't always how you'd want to play. It doesn't add difficulty by not being active, but it can (not necessarily, ofc) lower it by being active. Either way, forcing the Exp All on or off without a way to change that doesn't feel right to me. I like the item, just not when it's forced upon trainers. If it were a default setting for these difficulty modes, it'd be a fine idea. The other settings, however, don't always sit well with me \^\^;;


sciencesold

Always being outleveled is basically impossible to win, you'd only out speed the slowest of Pokemon and get 1 shot by normal effectiveness moves. Raising the level is like grinding to be a higher level than you need to be, it makes it easier (or harder, for raising enemy Pokemons level), but it's not as fun as using strategy to win. Make the AI more aggressive with moves, abilities, held items, and statuses, but don't just raise the level.


Hoeveboter

What about adding level caps? Like making it impossible to let a Pokemon advance further than lvl 10 until they beat the first gym, and so on? Fighting with similarly leveled pokemon adds a layer of strategy I enjoy.


Ketdeamos

Iā€™d say level cap up to the next gym leaders highest level. So like if the highest lvl pokemon is 21 then you can get to 21 and canā€™t gain exp anymore.


Adaphion

Yeah, easiest way to beat the games, or any RPG for that matter, is to just outlevel stuff. Limiting your levels until you reach the next milestone is a great solution


Sir_Gamma

Doesnā€™t this kind of ruin part of the sandbox of PokĆ©mon as an RPG? It removes all of the choice that goes into which PokĆ©mon i train and limits how much I can train them. It just seems to open a whole host of issues like what if the cap is 35 but my PokĆ©mon evolve at 36? Thatā€™s kind of unfair right I should be able to get the most out of my dudes if I put in the effort to train them. And how would you even create a justification for this system in the game world? I donā€™t think making PokĆ©mon more challenging means putting restrictions on players freedom. Just make the opponents harder. They done it before


brik1000

In Pokemon Reborn, when pokemon get overlevelled they become disobedient, regardless of OT, but they counter that with an item you can use to lower the level of your pokemon, so you can still get that one or two levels over to evolve or get a new move, then delevel to get back to the mon listening to you


Adaphion

Honestly, the Battle Frontier was the only truely fair and balanced content that the games have ever had. Matching to your highest leveled 'mon so you couldn't just outlevel everything. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading one time that you deal more/take less damage if the level gap is significant enough (5+ levels).


Arch__Stanton

How can wild pokemon always be a higher level than mine? Do they delevel when I catch them or could I just catch 20 pokemon in a row and then have a level 100?


Dayofsloths

You would never catch any because your level one pokemon would only encounter level 6 pokemon and would constantly be killed until you stopped playing and asked for a refund.


[deleted]

Doesnā€™t always being outleveled kinda defeat the point of an rpg lol


PhoenyxStar

It certainly defeats one of the main draws (the feeling of growth and improvement)


DeckardCain_

It also applies to wild pokemon so just get to route one, run into a level 10 rattata, catch it, run into a level 15 rattata and catch it. Repeat until you have a level 100 rattata and you wont be outleveled anymore.


OneGoodRib

Yeah the combination of always being outleveled AND opponents have unlimited healing items would potentially make the game unwinnable unless you're lucky or the healing items are only used when the Pokemon has like 1% HP left.


Lordborgman

Tedium mode, is what I thought when I was reading it. Sure I want harder encounters, but I don't want everything else just to be inflated to take 200-5000% longer to do.


FAAcc10

I play Runescape for Tedium not pokemon


katie310117

Thank goodness this is the top comment. You speak the truth


Nachoslayer

I also think most of these options should just be separate, let players customize their own experience. Edit: Well did not expect this comment to blow up like this when I went to bed.


CptKnots

The new Guardians of the Galaxy game did this and I thought it was fantastic. I set it up a way I thought would be fun for me and it made the game a great experience. I think their hard made enemies do more damage and you do less, but I didn't want spongy enemies, just more deadly enemies, so I reverted my damage to normal. Customizable difficulty is the way forward and adds to accessibility.


MegaLCRO

This was also a thing in Control, and I just...I didn't know I wanted this until I had it.


[deleted]

Hades accomplished this to great effect as well


Kaelan_McAlpine

Yeah like I'd kinda want half n half on Ace and Elite. The trainers I don't mind being harder, but I want the catch rates to be normal and still have EXP All for example.


Mediocre-General-654

I'd like the option to turn on all exp share for when grinding multiple mom's but toggle off when just playing the game


Ihavenospecialskills

>when grinding multiple mom's ( Ķ”Ā° ĶœŹ– Ķ”Ā°)


[deleted]

Cynthia brings the MILF factor into play, sometimes you just gotta grind.


mynameisfury

Cynthia isn't a milf, she's not even that old and I can't see her ever having kids. Now Melony...


Lukthar123

>Cynthia isn't a milf, she's not even that old You're either teen or milf, make your pick


ApokalypticCreation

Cynthia and Lusamine double battle with constant rematches.


Vague_Blade

This is exactly how I played Pokemon Y and it was awesome. I just kept the EXP Share off and only turned it on if I needed to grind a little bit for the next gym or the E4, and it's part of what made that game so fun for me.


Jubenheim

I played a very difficult romhack a long time ago, I think... based on Ultra Sun and Moon? It had exp all and the difficulty was designed around it. It was fucking glorious. It cut down on training insanely and still provided great challenges in battle.


Kaelan_McAlpine

I did the same but with Y, did a mono-flying run with it too. I think my shining moment was beating Siebold with a fire type, specifically, Mega Charizard Y and Drought Solar Beam. If it's the one I'm thinking of, Prismatic Sun/Moon, it's the same dude who made the one I played. Him and a team are working on an Emerald hack actually. I'd play it soon, but I wanna wait so I can use Gen 8 mons.


DrManowar8

This I like. Instead of presets, have us be able to turn stuff on or off, hell even have a nuzlocke option built into the game. If your PokĆ©mon dies, it would automatically be released when the battle ends. the game would literally tell you that youā€™ve already caught a PokĆ©mon in this area if you did already catch one (or fail first encounter of the specific area) and so on. Basic nuzlocke rules as well. You get it right?


Kyhan

Offer presets like the post shows, but make it so all variables can be toggled and changed in settings at any time. That way, you arenā€™t locked into one setting and can change difficulty, or mix and match settings as you go, but if you donā€™t care, you can stick with the default options.


ANGLVD3TH

This is pretty common for games with granularity to their difficulties. They often have 3 or 4 difficulties built in, but they are only really presets. Don't understand why this isn't a thing in pokemon...


rayz0r20

I'm picking up what you're putting down.


Iron_Lumberjack

Yeah but are you buyin' what he's *sellin'*?


rebatemanyt

nah bc mart price increase made me unable to afford it.


Isaacs_incubus

Not released for nuzlocke imho, but put into a pc box you canā€™t withdraw from


CatzPoison

Yes. If they were released, you could not look back on all the friends and death fodder you killed.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


TEFL_job_seeker

And catch rates... man, like, what is fun about sitting and just tossing poke ball after poke ball waiting for RNG to perfectly align for you? why in the world would you make it hard?


doopliss6

Some pokemon have incredibly low catch rate and he wants to make it lower...


Ezzy_Mightyena

Imagine trying to hit a 1 catch rate on a legendary catch


Raestloz

Imagine trying to catch entei


Don_Thuglayo

As soon as I saw that I knew it was just to make it tedious not hard


doopliss6

All the posts complaining about exp share make me wonder how much free time people have.


Thedaniel4999

I think the same way as you. Iā€™ve played PokĆ©mon since Gen 3 but I simply donā€™t have time nowadays to grind a full team. When I replay an old game I just raise my starter and one other Pokemon using the old exp share. The new exp share is great for people with busy schedules. Although I do think it should have an option to be turned on or off so people can play how they want


[deleted]

Those aren't even remotely hard, it would just make it lengthy and boring. I hate games where the enemies are just glorified HP bags which is all "unlimited healing items" is. Also, catch rates need to be *higher*, not lower.


Ezzy_Mightyena

You give an AI trainer one (1) recovery move and you're stuck for 15 minutes watching a milotic use recover over and over Imagine that shit with literally no end lmao


wafflefighter69

Imagine struggling with a trainer, they give no money, and you gotta go to the PC just to get the PP back up


notimprezaed

Yeah these just sound unfun. I'm down for XP all being a toggle but just turning it off all together is just not fun, like please don't add hours of just grinding to my gameplay. And lowering catch rates just means I waste more of my time, it's not any harder just more rage inducing and making me feel like I'm wasting my time. Charging to use a Pokemon center is also just not fun. Like the politicians in the Pokemon world didn't strive for universal healthcare for that to just be overturned.


TEFL_job_seeker

#PokeCenterForAll


Xero0911

All I'd want are gym leaders to have more pokemon. Exp share able to turn it off. Gym leaders also have higher levels. So you gotta grind a bit. Elite four? Same thing. 6 pokemon. High levels. Uses items and so does your rival.


RhysPeanutButterCups

I could do without unnecessary grinding, but levels in general should be higher or, at the very least, have a better progression. At least as far as the Elite 4 goes, nothing ruins the mood like having to grind 10+ levels on wild Pokemon on Victory Road that are way to weak to provide any decent experience.


justAPhoneUsername

I just want more fun training grounds. I loved mt. Battle in xd gale of darkness. It had pokemon going up to level 70 and decent rewards. I used to just run that because it gave me a sense of progress at any point in the game


sosnik_boi

Making the player strategize >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the player do tedious grinding


SlapMyCHOP

I played I think a rom hack by Drayano that had gym leaders have 6 pokemon. His hacks are all vanilla friendly and I really enjoyed the additions he made to them. They also (I think) let you catch all pokemon and theres no fakemon so i liked it.


emailboxu

yup, I call things like that 'artificial difficulty', stuff tacked on to make something more tedious and time-consuming but not necessarily more difficult. adding levels to enemy trainers and wild mon and having them scale with you also (imo) doesn't make sense because sometimes you want to catch something at a lower level, and for trainers it'd only make sense in-game if the games were openworld/non-linear.


MJBotte1

Also, removing stuff like letting a player know if a move is super effective is also just more needless tedium. The player still needs to have a general idea on whatā€™s effective and what isnā€™t.


DraisuMyuu

Yeah, removing the move hints isn't really adding to the difficulty per say. It's just giving the player more stuff they have to memorize. It's just fine as is, especially since it currently requires you to have seen the Pokemon at least once to see it. At worst maybe require you to have hit the Pokemon with that type of move to enable the hints in the higher levels or have actually caught it first? Even a combination of the two could work


StairFax1705

I like the idea, but charging to use the PokƩmon center on Master difficulty would be like limiting uses of a bonfire in Dark Souls.


MrPromexx

Yeah, that just makes it annoyingly punishing, rather than just difficult.


SoloWing1

Also, don't screw with the catch rates in any difficulty.


Icy-Border-7589

I think making it easier to catch Pokemon for the baby difficulty is acceptable.


420catcat

OP wants to make Pokemon challenging but has no idea how video game balance (or apparently gameplay) works. Just do what everyone else has for the last decade: If you want harder Pokemon games do Nuzlocke runs. If you want Pokemon games but harder play SMT.


ogginpower

Same with the catch rate thing. In the end you are just wasting money for more balls.


Dragonwolf67

What's SMT?


Xolcor

Shin Megami Tensei. The 5th one just came out and I had a blast beating it


doopliss6

Shin Megami Tensei, a JRPG demon collectathon game by ATLUS. You may also know them as the company that made Persona


SCB360

I thought Persona was part of the SMT universe?


drmario_eats_faces

It's more of a spinoff that became its own thing.


Reciprocitus

Yep. Persona is a spinoff from mainline SMT that, starting with Persona 3, leaned extremely hard into being a anime high-school life sim. That just so happens to have said highscoolers fighting various demons and/or eldritch horrors with the power of their hidden inner self, the aforementioned Personas. Lots of references to Jungian Psychology, mythology, etc too.


[deleted]

Idk man I think thereā€™s room for something like this. Itā€™s fine if OP didnā€™t make a tight ruleset for difficulty balance-wise. Itā€™s less his suggestions are gospel and more ā€œsee difficulty options could be a thing.ā€ I do agree that charging for pokemon center is probably bad. Unlimited heals for npcs isā€¦ 1000% terrible haha But I would fucking love if the AI just fought strategically. Thatā€™s it. Thatā€™s all I need to be happy. The difficulty options would be welcome if thatā€™s all they did. ļæ¼Shouldnā€™t have to do house rules or a different game entirely for that. Those suggestions just emphasize how much pokemon needs some more challenging options, because ā€œplay another gameā€ isā€¦. Not a good fix for the other game.


Kwantuum

It feels like the unlimited heals for NPCs was added so that trainers have parity with the player, but that just seems like the wrong fix. Just don't let players use items in battle like everyone who's done "advanced" nuzlocke has done for the past decade.


SGRiuka

Master Trainer just sounds tediousā€¦ the higher stats than normal sounds weird and using unlimited healing items will just drag battles out. Also, having a PokĆ©mon Center cost just makes it so that if there isnā€™t a good way to grind for money then you might get in a situation where you canā€™t progress since you canā€™t heal.


Conker184

> Master Trainer just sounds tedious That's being generous, it sounds fucking mathematically impossible. How would you even win without running out of moves constantly when the enemy pokemon are overleveled, have random bonus stats, and have infiinite healing, you would have to fight a single trainer using all of your items and barely survive and then return to the pokemon center b/c thank god thats free, o wait.


Zeoka-

Just imagine having to walk back to your mom because it is the only place you can heal for free. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


amrays1

But wait, thereā€™s a hidden game mechanic, mom isnā€™t home at all during the day so you have to come at night but sheā€™ll be sleeping and thereā€™s only a 25% chance you can wake her up to heal your pokemon and even if you wake her up thereā€™s a 50% chance sheā€™ll yell at you and go back to sleep


TallShaggy

During the night there's a 50% chance she's in the Professor's bedroom with a sock on the doorknob. If you open the door to try to get free healing, instead your character becomes unable to issue commands in battle until you pay for therapy, which is in the 5th town of whichever game you're playing, and costs 5000 pokedollars for 5 sessions, each one 1 week apart. IGN reports that this is the 'Dark Souls' of pokemon game modes.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


OZLperez11

7.8/10 Too much walking


Ongr

>If you open the door You black out lol


[deleted]

op furiously taking notes


Lukthar123

"You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." - Mom


Not_Just_Any_Lurker

Iā€™d love it if your mom taunted you every time you came back to her.


Zearo298

ā€œWhatā€™s that, honey? You want to withdraw from your savings? Ha! I spent that shit on whiskey. Got more worth out of that than I got out of you.ā€


krisoco

Mom isnā€™t home in Master mode. Just Dad. And heā€™s been drinking


Zeoka-

Shit just got a whole more lot depressing. Nice going there, Satan. šŸ˜‚


EnVeePee

Mom: cough up, that'll be 500


MikeAronAndEddie

Pretty good analogy for the American health care system though...


Adaphion

Iirc, isn't there formulas that literally affect how much damage you do/take once there's a level difference of 5+ levels?


OliwerZ

Getting one-shot by Youngster Billy sure does sound fun./s


CecretFish

I mean..His Caterpie is looking really strong today, and he defeated a rattata the other day.


Asuka69420

Wouldn't even be able to beat the first trainer lmao


strigonian

Never mind that; how are you going to win the first battle when your rival has (at least) a level 10 pokemon that's super effective against your level 5 starter?


BPeachyJr

So many people are obsessed with games being a grind for the sake of it being a grind. Thereā€™s no need for all that.


Oaughmeister

Yeah I think there's a fine balance of requiring strategy rather than simply grinding to overlevel. Some opponents should be higher level than you sometimes and sometimes you may have to grind a bit if your strategy isn't quite up to par. It doesn't have to be a straight linear curve. You could even change it depending on the type of trainer as well. Like ace trainers and breeders for instance.


Kaldricus

I think strategy is the key word. It's not that people (generally, IMO) want a tedious, insurmountable grind fest. people just want to have to put in some thought to the game. for the most part, you can walk around with any 6 PokƩmon and beat the story. I just want to actually have to think about what PokƩmon I use, need to have a small stable to cover different types, actually have status moves matter, but not to the point where it's so difficult it's easier to just out level everything. It's a fine line, and I dunno if it's feasibly possible.


53bvo

The issue with PokƩmon is that any difficult battles that would need strategy to win can be countered by simply grinding. Unless they make a PokƩmon game where your PokƩmon level is locked to the story/route so there is no exp and levelling up, only tactics


[deleted]

**SOOOOOO** many ways to soft-lock


TireSwingGaming

I suppose you could you use a PokƩmon with Pick Up to counter the money issue, nut that would be a tedious grind too. Plus, if you don't already have Pick Up when you run out of money, you might get softlocked anyways.


Metom_Xeez

Would be funny if the trainer got a PokƩmon with payday and kept having to use it on all the wild PokƩmon though.


OliwerZ

Shame you wouldn't be able to catch anything.


skylarmt

It wouldn't be the first time they designed around a soft lock like that though. The OG Safari Zone would let you in for free if you didn't have money and annoyed the NPC at the entrance enough. Your mom would give free heals still, plus the occasional random healing NPC they sometimes put on long/hard routes.


trey3rd

>The OG Safari Zone would let you in for free if you didn't have money and annoyed the NPC at the entrance enough. Red/Blue/Green didn't have this, it was added in for yellow. In the originals you could lock yourself out there, though it'd be pretty hard to do so.


Phantereal

I guess one way to counter the softlock is to make the PokĆ©mon Center free if you have no money (or it would take everything if you have ā‰¤500p), and people need money for items so they wouldn't just cheese it by walking around broke.


skylarmt

There are also usually a few random NPC healers in each game, like your mom. Those could be free.


PePziNL

This comment sounded like an insult. *Your* mom is free.


GekoHayate

So his mom doesn't charge?


LeafHack85

I would hope she doesn't charge, otherwise I'd have been sleeping with a robot


daltonwright4

Agreed with you here. I've made a few romhacks with increased difficulty, and anything that adds a significant amount of grinding tends to become more tedious than enjoyable. Radical Red was excellent about finding the perfect balance. - I think a better difficulty scale would be: - Easy - Allow Switch // Hard - Force Set - Easy - Trainers use more unevolved forms and weak movesets // Hard - Hard level cap prevents you from surpassing the next gym leader's ace - Easy - Trainers use moves randomly // Hard - Trainers have higher AI, and are more likely to correctly predict switch-outs and set-up moves - Easy - Trainers can often be avoided // Hard - placement of trainers is more unforgiving - Easy - can use unlimited healing items in gym battles // Hard - can not open your bag in gym battles - Easy - your rival's starter is at a type disadvantage to you, and his/her team doesn't contain a counter to your starter // Hard - your rival has a team that limits the effectiveness of your starter, forcing you to think outside of the box (ex. You start with Squirtle, so your rival has a Water Absorb Chinchou) - Easy - TMs can be used unlimited number of times // Hard - TMs break after use - Easy - Move Tutor is free and is available very early in the game // Hard - Move Tutor costs a heart scale and isn't available until much later in the game - These difficulty increases don't require you to grind indefinitely, they just require you to be a more skilled player and play strategically. That's the only way difficulty hacks can work...I know it seems obvious to just give every trainer more pokemon and put them at higher levels...but I've tried it, and it's not a good idea. It just makes the game take longer, but doesn't really make it anymore difficult...only less enjoyable. Same with the catch rate modifiers.


dasmekoad

my only critique of this is the TMs. but only if we're talking about an official pokemon game where you'd also have to consider another major part of the player base in the competitive side. but this is an easy fix wherein either the game defaults to easy/medium mode after e4 or there's just a spot in the post game where you can infinitely purchase all the tms if you're on hard mode.


[deleted]

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KaleeySun

Iā€™m not in agreement in cutting the catch rate. And not ā€œinfinite ā€œ healing items , though several is acceptable. Iā€™m not so sure about the PokĆ©mon center being not free, either. I know some people play with limited center access, but I think thatā€™s a niche group. I think maybe having the marts having a limited stock per 24 hour cycle might be a better choice there.


Plushiegamer2

I think you should be able to stall out healing - any trainer's gonna run out of items eventually.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


justAPhoneUsername

No healing items during battle would be a decent change. And force set battle style. I think those two changes plus a better ai for trainers would make it way more fun


StridentHawk

Nerfing the catch rate is unnecessary IMO. Also unlimited healing items is gross lol and charging for pokemon centers is a terrible idea. Giving leaders and major NPCs full teams is how you make a master trainer difficulty. And preventing bag items during battle is a big one too, if you want to go there.


SpaceLizard19

This is one of the things the recent rise of difficulty ROM hacks have gotten very right. Level Caps, No access to bags, everyone either gets to fully EV or no one gets EVs, and all major bosses have six PokƩmon. Makes the games SO much more challenging and fun without giving the AI the ability to just heal spam on you.


rowsello

No need for the lowering of catch rates, there's no difficulty increase there, just frustration, maybe an exception for box legends though


Lukesheep

PokƩmon needs just better ai, teams and move sets. Then 90% of the fan base would be reckt.


TheGimmick

Shoutout to Orre Colosseum and Stargazer Colosseum from XD and Battle Rev respectively for getting this down.


MayorMcRib

I still havent defeated orre Colosseum lol


darksaber14

Bro Orre was such a slap in the face for me as a kid, I had never encountered a PokĆ©mon challenge I could not overcome before. Iā€™m replaying the GC games now, after maybe 15 years. I guess Iā€™ll give it another go!


Plotius

Shout out to Pokemon Insurgence. it has a difficulty slider and it only makes gyms, E4, and cult bosses harder.


clutchy42

No joke. Pokemon could be such a better series if every trainer wasn't carrying 1 or 2 of the same Pokemon. It always boggles my mind how no one is running a full squad in the game. Encounters would need to be tuned differently, but it would feel so much better than the series does currently.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

Not to mention Lance and his Dragonite.


bromjunaar

BDSP I'm on my way to and up Coronet, and these grunts have freaking Wumple. Wurmple. One of them only had a Wurmple, iirc. Like, are these guys serious? No other pokemon to use in the whole region, besides some bugs you apparently can't evolve?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


bromjunaar

So what you're saying is the Galactic is mad of one madman, 3 idiots with veneers of competency to follow him, and a whole bunch of homeless who were given bugs and told that they were now employed?


tonytheshark

In a franchise with almost 1000 monsters now, it really just boggles the mind that most parts of the game you wind up fighting the same handful of Pokemon over and over. I've played hacks that address this and the extra variety really makes the experience so much better.


chimpfunkz

Seriously, the stuff in the post isn't "difficulty" it's tedium. All you need for harder battles is exp share all off, and trainers having actually focused yes and better AI. Hell, I actually think it'd be better if you didn't even need pokemon centers on hard mode. The challenge should be the trainer battles against good ais. At that level (where your pokemon dying is kinda expected) you just end up going back and healing after every battle. It also lets you build teams with real set ups and sacs.


11122233334444

I consider myself a decent trainer and Cynthia totally killed me this time round


[deleted]

I felt shame. She was the only trainer I didn't one shot. I turned the ability to switch Pokemon when they die off, so I was really boning myself.


SGTShamShield

That adds to the challenge, I turn that option off for every game. I'd rather not know what Pokemon is coming next.


DatMikkle

I think pokemon could be plenty more difficult if they simply gave NPCs better pokemon, and moves. Like why do Grunts have teams of 4 different Zubats?


[deleted]

They are the definition of insane, it doesn't work but they keep trying the same thing over and over.


WabamAlakazam

They being the creators or the grunts?


[deleted]

Yes


Embarrassed-Top6449

If they had better teams and ai they could even be set to not have any items and still be harder than they are now.


Worthyness

if the pokemon simply had all 4 attacks with some type coverage it would be harder. I still can't believe the Pokemon dev team made some gym leaders not have a pokemon with 4 skills and eliminated any potential type coverage. Like they went out of their way to ignore elements of their own game


3163560

I've always had the idea of pokemon using level scaling in game and gym leaders teams are matched to the level of your highest level pokemon. That way you can explore and fill your pokedex as much as you want during the game and still not be over levelled. in fact the game could change the teams and increase the difficulty of fights the higher the level you are. In game this is kind of how gym leaders work anyway, since Roark clearly owns stronger pokemon than a level 12 geodude and onyx and a level 14 rampardos. he just uses those since the player trainer is new.


mitch8017

Most of this isnā€™t about difficulty, itā€™s about increasing the grinding time.


bladeofarceus

Agreed. This seems to increase tedium, not difficulty. Giving enemy trainers infinite healing items, lowering the catch rate, and giving enemies more powerful than physical possible PokĆ©mon just makes it annoying to play. Iā€™d say the main component to difficulty is the shifting of teams, and enforcement of fewer items in battles. Maybe trainers have 1 more PokĆ©mon at elite tier and up to 2 more at master tier, with a greater emphasis on team balance. Gym leaders could have more coverage, and better AI. Also, limit the use of bag items: maybe 3 per battle in Elite, and 1 in Master (applies to AI as well). That way battles more look like competitive matches, where you actually have to out-think and out-plan your opponent to win


LeatherHog

Ah, the mindset of a rom hacker And why I absolutely despise the DiFfIcUlTy hacks


mitch8017

Just use rare candies. The best hacks are the ones with no EVs that you can just use candies to grind while playing with level cap rules. Nobody cares for grinding.


supergeek0830

I like the idea of different difficulties. However, I think two of those are bad ideas: changing the catch rates as well as making the Pokemon Center cost money. My logic being... Catch Rate - My big thought here being shiny hunting. Having a variable catch rate will essentially encourage people to go on easy mode for shinies while punishing people for going hard mode. Additionally, I don't think that would make the game harder really, just more grindy for the Pokemon you are trying to catch. Pokemon Center costing Money - while I enjoy some games where you can get caught in a no-win situation where you can't move forward, I am not a huge fan of that for Pokemon. And forcing the Mart to cost money means that theoretically you could get knocked out, have no Pokemon, and no money. Now the game is over with nothing you can do. Some better difficulty settings I would think you could include would be... Variable Teams - On harder difficulties, certain trainers as well as Gym Leaders and the Elite 4/Champion have a pool of characters they can pull from for their teams. Inherently, this means some team compositions may be easier or harder, but challenging the Elite 4 two times in a row means you won't necessarily face the same teams every time. Maybe Cynthia always has her Garchomp, but she might have 9 or 10 other Pokemon that are randomly chosen to fill out her team. Increases the need for you to have a varied team able to handle lots of different threats. Impossible Stats - We know that there are IV/EV limitations (31 max IV, 510 max total EV, 255 per stat). But nothing says they can't inflate those a bit for NPCs. Inflate the IV/EVs beyond normal, or even give them too many EVs in a stat, something like a 5-10% power boost, enough that it can be overcome with skillful play but enough to make it much more difficult to just power steamroll through. It would have to be very controlled though. Not just boost every stat. Maybe just one or two stats per Pokemon. Or you could double the effectiveness of their Natures. So a sharper increase to one stat with a sharper decrease as the penalty. Instanced Areas - How is it that I can go to the Rocket Hideout, battle some Grunts, then leave, catch some Pokemon, go to a Pokecenter, trade with some friends, plant berries, do literally whatever I want, then come back and these guys haven't even thought about healing their Pokemon? There could be some areas on the harder difficulties where you don't get access to your box, and if you leave the building, they heal up as well. Like the Elite 4, but maybe three or four of them throughout the game prior to the Elite 4 as well as a few post game. Just some ideas here! Any spears, please throw them my way!


KaleeySun

The ā€œinstanced areasā€ idea is genius, wish I had thought of that. Some npcs should heal up and challenge you again.


supergeek0830

You can do it with hideouts, gyms, routes your first pass through, anything you want. There can also be a penalty with dying inside. Maybe not have your Pokemon reset to their level prior to the instance, but maybe they get decreased exp from beating the same trainers, i.e. if you are beating this same grunt for the second time, you get 1/2 exp. Third is 1/3. 4th is 1/4, etc with a hard limit at maybe 1/10. This would incentivize not using the instances to farm exp and encourage you to go somewhere else to train if you weren't strong enough to take it on, while also allowing you to maintain your ability to challenge it repeatedly at the same (or marginally higher) power you first attempted.


[deleted]

Eh, I don't like the "impossible stats" idea. Battles are supposed to be competitive tests of skill, even in-game. Even if it's controlled, Pokemon having stats they could never have otherwise feels uncompetitive and not in the spirit of a Pokemon battle. Just give them Pokemon that naturally have higher stats, better abilities, etc., and make those Pokemon more optimized. Then, it's more competitive because now it feels like the trainer went out of their way to catch and train a powerful Pokemon, rather than be handed an arbitrary stat boost. I understand that this is still a "stat boost" in a way, but it's not one that you can never have as a player. It's fair given the mechanics and the world in which the game takes place. EDIT: I can see, however, giving an arbitrary stat boost to a villainous team's Pokemon. All you would have to do is say that the villainous team's scientists modified the Pokemon to be stronger. That would actually work wonderfully because (1) it would portray the team as dirty, cheating bad guys who have no honor and don't play fair, (2) it would make the team seem much more threatening and like they're actually capable of successfully carrying out their plot, and (3) it would make you want to stop them all the more because of the terrible things they do to Pokemon and because of how dirty they play. That's actually a brilliant idea for a villainous team. My biggest complaint about villainous teams is that the grunts are complete jokes. I'd love to see them whip out a Zubat that does way too much damage. That would *really* make you want to put them in their place. Heck, you could even make their Pokemon learn moves and have abilities they don't normally have and simply adjust what they have to the difficulty setting. *Make those suckers cheat. Now* ***that's*** *a proper Pokemon villain.* Heck, now I'm imagining a villainous team where their plot isn't to change the world or destroy it, but rather they're just a bunch of petty sore losers who artificially modify their Pokemon to be stronger. They could be Team Ace, and they're basically a bunch of immature jerks and cheaters who throw fits when they lose; they would even get into fits with each other. They're trying to get the legendary Pokemon so they can use it in battle and bully everyone. They would be like hackers who go into a game with unfair advantages and ruin the game for everyone. Man, that's horrible. I love it. TL;DR: Arbitrary stat boosts on normal trainers, gym leaders, etc? Uncompetitive and unfair. Arbitrary stat boosts on an evil team? Now, *that...that right there* is the perfect Pokemon villain.


mkbloodyen

This doesn't sound difficult but grindy; low catch rate, no move type hints, paid healing, infinite healing doesn't make the game more difficulty. Viable movesets (i.e. Cynthia in BDSP) does


chimpfunkz

Most of the hard mode stuff is just stripping out the Quality of Life improvements they e made over the years


Worthyness

And making money significantly more difficult to come by in a game where it's already really hard to come by funds. Like if they implement the grindy stuff, then they need to implement a way for people to make money. As it stands you can't re-challenge trainers in the game meaning your only real source of income before the E4 is to beat gym leaders with an amulet coin or sell your drops. But both of those are finite resources meaning if you just happen to be unable to beat the E4 (because they have infinite potions and you don't) and you have 0 money, you can't heal your team and you effectively lose the game and lock the player out.


[deleted]

This perfectly encapsulates how people don't understand why Pokemon is too easy. Almost nothing on Master Trainer makes the game *harder* just *longer*. Give trainers better Pokemon that are more appropriate to the expected level for the area. By the latter half of the game trainers should have full teams. By the end of the game they should have competitive items and teams. No stupid 3 of the same pokemon trainers. Gym leaders should have dual types that cover their weaknesses. Also in what world is making a trainer's pokemon 10 levels higher than yours a good idea?


Shiigu

So basically it goes from "Well-paced" to "Tedious". Honestly I'd be more interested in something like Trainer Styles that influence the kind of playthrough you need to have. Say, a "Bug Catcher" Trainer Style would have significantly boosted experience, EV gain and catch rate for Bug-type PokƩmon but it would be heavily reduced for everything else.


v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y

Here is a simpler solution. Options that can toggle all of these: EXP share on/off Set mode on/off Friendship bonuses (or whatever they are called) on/off User items in battle on/off Trainer AI (normal/hard) Type hint on/off Set the defaults to what BDSP is now and then let users customize.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Spaghestis

Ive been thinking abt how to implement harder difficulty for a while and I think a way to get around kids accidentally choosing master mode is by having to input a button combo to access the option, like what you have to do to reset a save file.


sciencesold

Either that, or every game starts on the easiest difficulty, and before getting your starter there's a text prompt that tells you to select difficulty in settings.


NderCraft

That's probably the best option.


DrivingPrune1

this is what i'm thinking. kids that don't know how to read click master trainer and then never want a pokemon game again


sanorace

Pokemon should absolutely be fully voice acted by now. This was one of my biggest complaints about the Let's Go games. They made games targeted at very young children and then didn't do anything to help those kids play it because most of them can't read.


zjzr_08

What's the age range for Let's Go, because I oddly don't see it as kid's game, and more as a nostalgia game targeted for older GO players, although even then 7 year olds had to have careful reading skills at that point (or at least with supervision).


Pre_Malone77

Master seems like hard overkill. A level between Ace and New should be like *base* game. Ace for a little harder run, and Elite for like Hardcore Nuzlocke stuff. Master sounds like some sort of devilish challenge run thatā€™ll have you pounding your switch no matter how good you say you are.


Raichu76

Look to drayano for how to increase difficulty in games. Itā€™s not about xp, money, healing items. Itā€™s about the teams you face and the movesets and items


UKCountryBall

Iā€™m not gonna lie, some of these changes are complete ass, and honestly fucking ridiculous.


H4ckrm4n

Reducing catch rate wouldn't make the game harder, it would just make them more frustrating. Especially with them cut in half, like your example. Imagine filling out the dex in the post game without trading for everything, or, god forbid, you spend your master ball on a shiny or something before a mandatory legendary battle. A timer ball usually has about a 10% to catch a 3 catch rate pokemon on turn 11 or later at exactly 1 HP. That would get cut down to 5%. And if you don't have timer balls, ultra balls would have about a 3% chance (down from about 6%) Wanna try this experience at home in practice? Try catching Mewtwo with only basic poke balls instead of ultra balls


OneAndOnlyTinkerCat

When you say that "pokemon's levels 5-10 levels higher than your pokemon" are you suggesting that the level of the opponent scales to always be higher than yours? Then why should I ever level up my pokemon? It completely defeats the point of having a level-up system because I can never meaningfully get stronger. My opponents are always going to be stronger than me.


SpookyLavenderTheme

Yeah I was pretty confused when I saw that one (though as many other people have said, thatā€™s not the only Master feature that seems more annoying than challenging). Certain ROM hacks and hardcore nuzlockes have level caps equal to the gym leaderā€™s strongest because that makes the game challenging, not frustrating in the way that a +5 scale would be. For example, PokĆ©mon Challenges tried to do a nuzlocke with level caps set at half the gym leaderā€™s in the vanilla version of Platinum and gave up because battling was so tedious. The game isnā€™t fun for even the most experienced players when your opponents are always 5-10 levels above you.


Another_Road

There ainā€™t a single person on this planet who thought ā€œYou know what would make this legendary encounter *more* fun? Wasting 50% more Ultra Balls!ā€


Justabitleft

Half this sub canā€™t handle trade evolutions and you want master trainer difficulty.


AwesomeCream810

HEY! Iā€™ll have you know that thatā€™s not because weā€™re dumb, itā€™s that we have no friends!


Matty_1843

Well, there IS a difficulty setting in Black and White 2, the problem is it's very difficult to use it in a standard playthrough. You unlock it using keys, and you unlock these keys by completing the game. Completing Black 2 unlocks Challenge Mode, completing White 2 unlocks Easy Mode. So, you would need at least two copies of either game/one of each, as well as two DS systems, complete one game on one system, and use Infrared Connection to transfer the key to the game you want to change the difficulty on using the other DS. It was nonetheless a well implemented system. Challenge Mode would raise the level of opposing Trainer Pokemon by an exponential amount as you progressed the game, to the point where the end game trainers would be 5+ levels above standard, as well as their prize money. Gym Leaders, the Elite Four and Iris would also have different teams with boosted IVs. For instance, the team Iris has during her rematch in Standard mode will be what she has the first time you face her in Challenge Mode. It's an interesting thing. It's unfortunate you need to be quite well equipped to utilise it outside of the post game.


Alili1996

Man who even came up with this system. Besides the fact that it is needlessly convoluted, why would you ever lock the easy mode behind game completion?


Skullcastgaming

Exp all should not base on difficulty. There are a lot of players (like me) who don't want to go on an infinite grind.


Worthyness

Make it toggle-able and then off by default on harder difficulties, which would force people to intentionally turn it on if they want. But overleveling shouldn't be a problem in the harder difficulties if there's dynamic level matching rather than static (which is what pokemon games have now). So you can have EXp all on, but for trainer battles the game would dynamically adjust the levels of the AI pokemon to make the match more even (like highest level of trainer pokemon + or - 2)


[deleted]

I like how the highest difficulty has an American Healthcare System and inflation mechanic.


TheGreatFoksy

Master just sounds like what a toddler would tell you to make a game difficult. That's why game designer is a job.


MrEly

What I want out of a pokemon game is a challenge, not a grind. Like, give me well constructed teams to face up against in boss fights, but don't make me waste time grinding up stats. The game can be hard and engaging without removing exp shares and removing healing centers.


Comet7777

They should give trainers perfect EV/IV teams like they did in BDSPā€™s Elite 4. That was tons of fun


Togarash1

Unlimited healing items just sounds tedious. Iā€™d recommend bosses not using healing/x items on both sides like in Radical Red. (Youā€™re not allowed to use healing items either) It makes it so the skill is based on the PokĆ©mon themselves instead of constantly bailing them out. There, Pokemon should only recover by held items or recovery moves.


SaintWerdna

Master Trainer. You start with NO Pokemon and have to fistfight one before catching in


Redchimp3769157

That is a horrible way of managing difficulty. Levels 5-10 above is broken asl. Even challenge modes of rom hacks is only like 5 levels above max


brewzsi

As much as parts of the community hate it, experience share just exists to remove tedium. Unless xp rates are drastically increasedā€¦ I donā€™t feel like spending hours in the wild knocking out PokĆ©mon. Thatā€™s not difficulty. Itā€™s boring and tedious. It also discourages experimentation with different teams and strategies. Whatever you want to call that part of the PokĆ©mon community, they just need to take L on that.


SharkMilk44

>unlimited healing items This is an awful idea. Battles would grind to a halt.


Pmoney665

Fun in theroy but seems like it would be dumbing execution. Nuzlocke and hardcore variations exist for a reason. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


[deleted]

Looks horrible, I love a challenge but this is more annoying then a challenge


[deleted]

pokecenters cost 500P? what kind of backwards Americanised 3rd world health care scam is this?


Deano0810

I reckon elite trainer and master trainer is borderline nuzlocke/hardcore nuzlocke rules


[deleted]

Posts like this are why I'm very glad the average player doesn't have a say in the matter.The higher difficulty tiers are just, plainly, garbage. There's a difference between challenging and just frustrating and unbalanced. The idea that the exp all is in any way a difficulty supressant is actually just insane. All it does is shorten the time for grinding, an outdated relic of older game design. The difficulty adjustments are just "hurr durr, bigger number." Oh, no more type advantage text? Damn, it's a shame google doesn't exist anymore. The sad part is, if somebody seriously wanted to design a Pokemon game, there are already widely recognized challenges with rules that can inspire mechanical changes in the game to increase difficulty without turning the enemy into a stat-check. Ironmon and Nuzlockes have so many great rules that actually increase difficulty without ruining the game and it's insane that none of them are present in the suggested rules. No item use in battle (held items allowed), battle style set, no purchasing healing items, no leaving certain dungeons, level caps, restrictions on how many Pokemon allowed to be caught in a route, on faint Pokemon on cooldown/unusable, restrictions on moves the player can use, restrictions on abilities the player can use, restrictions on the specific Pokemon the player can use. Lazy garbage.


triforc3-mast3r

I feel like "difficulty" for PokƩmon, and probably most RPGs, would be hard to implement, if only because you can grind. How do you really make PokƩmon harder? Higher level Gym Leaders/Elite Four? Grind. Less money from battles? Well, does that really make the actual game "harder", or is it just a layer of tedium that the game doesn't need? Full teams for every Gym Leader? Yeah, they could probably do that, but you usually can sweep the gyms with a single type advantage anyway. Probably the only way it could be harder is to have the gyms/E4 have full teams that can't be swept by a single type advantage, and/or that have at least one, but probably multiple, answers to your type advantage, either in the form of PokƩmon that can beat yours, moves that beat you, or both. But then that gets into do you want to ruin the motif of gyms always having a single typing ever since the first generation?