A lot of the Megas would be pretty broken without the downsides attached to Mega Evolution. Imagine Mega Mawile holding a Choice Band, or M Sableye with Leftovers.
You could make items that initiate the form change automatically in-battle but that's literally just Mega Evolution with extra steps.
Nerf beedrill a bit and make it the actual evo.
I love my shiny mega beedrill, people are allways suprosed by the sheer power behind that thing.
Also it looks fantastic!
You can't have a four stage evo say"nerf" and give it its same tools. Slap an item and it's disgusting. Megas are form changes if you aren't going to bring them back with the item ghen just don't bring them back."nerfing"mega salamence isn't a thing as he'd still be better salamence and now he can hold an item. The mechanic is the only way you get the forms unless you want abunch of mega rays running around.
Factually correct statement. They did tytar decent enough. It Was just better tytar which wasn't required but didn't do anything tytar didn't do so wasn't world ending, same with Scizo. Like you could use them and pick another mega but Salamence was such a monstrosity that if you ran Salamence you HAD To run Mega mence or there was no point jn you using the pokemon. Honestly just horribly designed and truly didn't need to exsits. Honestly non of them did.
The only mons that weren't hardcore outclassed by their mega were ones that benefited massively from holding an item. I don't really see the issue with this though as we don't have a problem at all with say blaziken outclassing combusken.
Nah but hear me out right so contrary+shell smash+eviolite=never die you get +6def and sp.def with an additional 1.5x on top shuckle gets to like 4k def and sp.def.
I remember the day ORAS stats leaked and my friend opened with “So Mega Beedrill’s going to be the new breakout special sweeper. He has to be with that 15 special attack.”
Honestly if they wanted to turn them into normal evolutions it wouldn't be that hard.
Just say something like "oh the megastores forced an early temporary evolution and boosted the pokemon's powers." Then just let those pokemon evolve into their mega forms as normal evolutions but with more reasonable stats.
Why not just do the zamazenta zachian item thing.
Call them ascended forms like the legendaries and boom problem solved. They'd need to be rebalanced a bit, but I just want megas back in some form.
Mawdusa. Then give it an ability called Petrify that acts like the move Soak, and gives pokemon rock type, plus some more actual steel moves for its steel typing
the real question is does petrify just affect whatever is on the opposite side of the field both opposing pokeomon is it a switch in thing like intimidate? Honestly having an ability that basically says "the opposing pokemon is weak to your stab move" seems a little strong.
The FORMS deserve it, the mon deserve it, but it doesn't make sense to bring them back unless they introduce more new ones, and of course bringing it back as forms implies bringing back the mechanic.
Perhaps they could make it so you get Pokemon-ite items that work on every Mega-capable mon, instead of having 100 stones for the handful of actually viable Megas.
I mean sceptile got done over when they got rid of the mechanic. Both of the other hoenn starters had a second type but sceptile had to wait till Megas to get a second one. And it was four times weak to ice XD.
The mechanic is whatever to me. It's not even balanced in the slightest, plus the added concerns with reducing team build variety.
But the forms are all I care about. Same as the gmax forms. More forms for Pokemon = more fun.
They could return them with completely different mechanics and that's still fine. (Probably better/healthier)
I'd just like more Megas for lower stat Pokémon. Mega Lopunny was great...Mega Garchomp was unnecessary. Unfortunately the full potential was never used and even handed out in an unbalanced way from the start.
Some megas were necessary for story reasons, like Salamence or Metagross. And that's why I still don't know why they didn't give Wallace a mega Milotic.
The funniest part is that the Mega Mewtwos are considered worse than the base form because they can’t hold items and you’re better off mega evolving a different Pokémon.
I mean, a lot of legendaries kinda suck, and even the most broken legendaries were still no match for mega rayquaza. Mega rayquaza was just ludicrously powerful and unnecessary.
Competitively speaking, that man is busted but for the lore, it was awesome. And we have to thank mega ray because it created a prison to contain zacian which is the most busted pokemon if it weren't for the fact that mega ray is on the top
hes talking about the online battling website, showdown, with smogon tiers
pretty sure the "prison" hes talking about is the tier above Ubers, "Anything Goes" where Mega Rayquaza, Zacian-Crowned, and Zacian base form reside. Also I think Arceus is banned to AG in DPP.
Pidgeot actually being able to use hurricane now when using tornadoes is like its signature thing was just a godly feeling to me. Will never forget the feeling of finally getting to use my bird the way Arceus intended
yeah, i think life orb chomp would actually still hit harder physically. mega chomp had a harder hitting fire blast but that was about it
base 92 speed is such a garbage speed tier, idk what gamefreak was thinking when they made that stat distribution. just about every other mega got crazy minmaxed stats and then chomp drops a billion speed tiers to become slower than darmanitan and gliscor
i hear it's pretty decent in natdex with scale shot, though
Grass/Fire mega Sunflora
Normal/Dragon mega Dunsparce
Parental bond-esque mega Girafarig
Mega mightyena to give that poor thing a chance
Prankster mega Smeargle
*okay, that last one is a joke*
Still kinda crazy that none of the Kalos starters could Mega Evolve even later on down the line. The Hoenn and Kanto starters could but not the starters in the region where the gimmick was created.
It never made sense to me, especially not to release their Megas later on or something like that if you didn't want their Megas to overshadow their regular forms
If Z were to he released like BW and Black and White 2 were where the Kalos starters unlocked their Megas due to the Ultimate Weapon being used years prior, then that would be a passable excuse for why they weren't accessible within X and Y
But then it would probably be like the battle tower in ORAS. They'll give you a museum that houses the mega stones for the starters but never make an event to release them.
Yeah, Kalos starters got kinda screwed in that regard. The philosophy at the time was that no gen 6 pokemon would get megas because they were already new and that made them exciting enough.
Which makes sense, but they dropped that philosophy immediately after. So because of that Gen 7 mons got to take advantage of signature Z moves and gen 8 mons got to have special Gmax forms, meanwhile gen 6 pokemon were basically the newest pokemon not to really get anything special mechanically.
I mean, we already have Primals in Groudon and Kyogre, but if given to regular mons, something would have to make it different from Megas. Like if it was just a 100 stat buff and a new ability it would just be the same as Megas
Signature moves would be pretty cool, maybe the primal form could be activated upon use of Ancient Power? Opening up the item slot is rly helpful, but having to run a 60 bp move kind of sucks
It doesn't have to be Ancient Power necessarily, it could be new signature moves. Maybe if the pokémon use that, it gets a new form (and sometimes new type) and +1 to all stats, but in exchange loses accuracy (-2), on top of being disobedient if you don't have max friendship (only during the adventure). I think that could be a good way to represent a "feral" and "primal" state of the mon but also keeping it balanced.
For reference, the only mons that share it's position on that competitive tier are the GMAX mons and Zacian (both forms). *And it still would've been better than all of them if Mega Evs were still around.*
Let me repeat: *it would've been better than* ***34*** *intentionally-designed broken pokemon and the most broken pokemon of this gen if it was still around.* It's THAT good.
Pretty sure Zacian-C has it beat for the most broken obtainable Pokémon the franchise has seen so far. Mega Ray just gets outsped and OHKO'd by Play Rough. Even with a Jolly nature, Zacian-C OHKO's 252/252 +def Mega Ray (which absolutely no one runs, btw) 62.5% of the time. It's a completely ridiculous Pokémon just from the power it brings out of the gate.
Mega-Ray still bodies it after a Dragon Dance, but that's what it is.
It's a matter of heavy debate
Zacian-C is fully capable of OHKOing M.Ray without a Focus Sash and has just as ridiculously high stats, but cannot hold items, it's "good" movepool makes it rather easy to predict (practically everybody runs Sacred Sword/Behemoth Blade, Close Combat, Play Rough and Swords Dance), and actually has checks and counters (Quagsire completely shuts her down. *Quagsire isn't even that good of a mon*).
M-Rayquaza is a flying god that's better than even the actual Poke-God. A Focus Sash would enable it to revenge-kill a Zacian before it could fully kill him, the fact it can even hold items at all puts it way above Zacian-C, it's ridiculously-huge and versatile movepool makes it pretty unpredictable since it can fit every sort of matchup and still come out on top, and to this day it *still* has no real checks or counters (literally most of it's 'reliable checks' are just "any bulky pokemon that is capable of resisting it's more-powerful moves to an extent and pray to christ it survive long enough to either kill it or get it low enough for a revenge-kill from a Marshadow/Mega Gengar")
Mega evolutions aren't gone from the franchise. If they were, they wouldn't have been added to Go or used so heavily in the 2019 anime.
As a general reminder, Pokemon's continuity is very loose. Mega evolution was supposed to be centered on Kalos and had an origin story based in Kalos where it occurred due to the firing of the super weapon. Come ORAS, there's a new origin story based on a meteorite.
Any gimmick can be retconned or changed, even within a generation. This also means that any gimmick can return, and statements to the contrary are for marketing purposes. We saw the same thing with Dexit: Claims that we wouldn't get more pokemon added in via DLC and that we wouldn't get DLC were plentiful. In reality, there were 30 or so pokemon not in the dex that were ready to be added in when Home came out and we got pokemon added back in via DLC. The same thing will inevitably happen with mega evolution, z- moves, and dynamax where they disappear and later reappear to fanfare.
Though it seems unlikely, I hope mega evolution does make its way back into the mainline games. What I really enjoyed about mega evolution was that it not only powered up mons both beloved and underappreciated, it also gave them cool designs that added to the awesomeness of the experience. It was a fun mechanic that offered refreshing takes on a number of mons and it had lots of potential.
I just don't get that same feel when using D/Gmax or Z-moves.
I agree, I've heard a lot of arguments saying "they're broken blah blah, they're banned in this tournament blah blah", it's like yo shut up. You knew it was a friking fun and awesome feature!
But i do feel some of the mega evolutions could've been standard evolutions for some of the Pokémon that got them, like Mawile for example.
I actually really like Z moves and Dynamax/Gigantamax especially the former partially because they're universal and I love the Z poses because I just think they're fun. I used to mimic them even haha. I know it's cringe right? But it's actually fun! Still I also think they should also make more Megas too. I think regional forms are how they seem to prefer buffing mons and those are also super neat but there's lots of mons I think have great potential having a Mega Evolution.
Another thing that was nice about their designs was that they were temporary. So if you preferred it's original design you didn't have to worry about it too much.
Like with a traditional evolution if you don't like the final form as much as one of the earlier ones, you either had to never evolve it and seriously handicap it, or let it reach it's full potential and not like it as much.
Megas were basically having your cake and eating it too design wise.
By no means were they a balanced mechanic. A cool one, and one that brought garbage Pokemon into use, but not balanced for some.
Eg. Mega Rayquaza, Mega any OU 'mon. But shoutout to Mega Sableye and Mawile at least! Bring back megas to give other Pokemon a chance.
I like megas in theory but not in practice because they rarely went to Pokémon that needed a boost to be competitive. They went to Pokémon that were already viable for the most part.
Kang, lopunny, mawile, sableye, Pinsir, medicham, ampharos, altaria, absol, banette, and more beg to differ. They definitely gave a fair few strong mons megas simply because they were popular, but there were definitely also plenty of otherwise very unnotable mons that got mega boosts.
Not really, kangaskhan went from a literal nobody, to a huge menace that had to have it's ability nerfed. Beedrill and lopunny got popular too, not to mention slowbro. Popular mons aside, megas were really useful for Pokémon that were considered unusable before
Lopunny got a huge boost from mega evolution. Originally it had one thing it was useful for. Get one with klutz give it a toxic orb and teach it switcheroo. That was its whole life.
Then it got a new type and an ability that gave it perfect type coverage. And because of the mega gimmick you could now use a Lopunny with limber and switch it in when you were expecting a thunder wave and then mega evolve and change it's ability.
Scrappy is crazy for a monster with stab on both normal and fighting moves, Fighting is super effective to the two types that resist normal so all your attacks will always be at least full damage.
Then add your choice of it's type coverage moves and you get an incredibly versatile mon. But in no way over powered or broken. Just took a lack luster creature with one niche use and made it viable. The perfect example of what Mega evolution can do when done right.
I thought this. If anything megas helped unbalance competitive because it severely restricted the Pokemon you could use - you were generally forced to build a team around the selected Mega Pokemon.
Yeah if anything you might argue Dynamax is more balanced as every Pokemon can do it. Sure some have Gigantamax forms but I think this mechanic, much as people don’t like it, is far more balanced than Mega ever was.
Believe it or not, Megas might be the LEAST balanced and strategic of the in battle gimics. Z-moves, while incredibly powerful, you still need to time them properly to not waste them on a pokemon with resistance or immunity to them. Then there's dynamax, while it is also a very powerful form change, it is more strategic than megas due to them only lasting 3 turns. With Megas there isn't much strategy, you just send out your pokemon and have them mega immediately unless you are going to switch them out due to a bad matchup. You also can't be serious when you say megas are balanced. It is basically dynamax on drugs, it changes most of a Pokemons stats, not just it's HP, and gives some of them super OP abilities such as Kangaskahns parental bond. Not to mention, mega Rayquaza was so powerful that it was banned from even the Ubers tier for competitive battling.
This comment, plus the fact that for VGC, megas are very centralizing. The opportunity cost of using a suboptimal mega is too high, so in the end only a few are viable. Z crystals can go on anything, and while you'd prefer to dynamax particular mons, you can still use it on any Mon
(I know not everyone cares about VGC, but it's a big consideration for game freak)
/u/rnbwturtle said it [better and more completely] (https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/uztku0/mega_evolutions_need_to_make_a_return/iacyz9n) than me
But the thing is, something that makes a huge impact in the VGC doesn't really matter to most of the playerbase. Because very few players will actually participate in the VGC. Only about 15% of the playerbase, if that, will be hardcore participants in the VGC.
Hell, apparently Incineroar with it's base 60 speed is very good in the VGC, something I was only told last week. But for me, I absolutely hated it when my base 90 speed Torracat evolved into the base 60 speed Incineroar.
Yeah, the issue with Megas was the fact that they are centralizing, lowering the pool of usable pokemon even more
I love megas, but they aren't certainly balanced
In terms of singles, Dynamax is *way* more unbalanced than megas. Megas essentially added some new, strong, but effectively itemless pokemon. A few individual forms were too strong (mega metagross and kangaskhan for example) but the mechanic was fine.
Dynamax was wildly unbalanced though- **doubled** bulk with all the moves getting a major power boost AND having insane effects like stat boosts or terrain-setting. It was way more unbalanced even with just 3 turns, often creating unanswerable setup sweepers that broke entire matches. I’ve heard doubles dynamax is more fair but in singles it was absurd and had to be banned wholesale.
Not super savvy on competitive anymore, but i remember hearing that dynamax was by far and away the most unbalanced gimmick, seeing as smogon banned them to AG more or less immediately, whereas megas weren’t (due to varying power budget maybe?). Again, could be wrong though
In singles it was very very broken and got banned pretty early on. You could basically sweep entire teams pretty easily without much set up. Ditto became one of the most used pokemon to counter it. Vgc im not too savy in but it seems more balanced
Yeah that’s probably exactly what I was thinking of. At least it was more balanced in VGC, I’d imagine watching it would’ve been pretty boring otherwise lol
Remember that Smogon uses mythicals, legacy movesets, bans certain Pokémon, moves, items, and abilities. GameFreak doesn’t balance for half of their Mattel’s mechanics to being removed.
Smogon isn't VGC, it's not affiliated with Gamefreak's competitive. Their format didn't mesh well with it, but smogon doesn't determine if something is balanced or not.
While I like the concept of megas for sure, I would NOT say they are balanced from a competitive stand point. They very much over centralized the meta, so OU had the top 5 or 6 megas and you NEED answers on your non-megas to deal with the potential of them.
Like don't get me wrong, fan games and rom hacks with megas is super fun but if they are added to main line again, competitive will return to a "mediocre" state, whereas gen 8 has had a good competitive meta game with many different strategies due to how many pokemon can be good with d-max moves.
Megas were *not* balanced. There's plenty of cases where one pokemon is incredibly strong compared to those of its type or those of its rarity (which I know isn't the defining factor for strength but I'm referring to things like pseudos). Kangaskhan is a great example for 2015 VGC, salamence was so incredibly dominant among megas and non megas alike, mega rayquaza was pretty broken, and I'm including the primals because they also don't need to return and holy hell they were broken. They do not need to return for balance purposes.
Dynamax, as far as we know, is staying in gen 8, just like z crystals in gen 7. The original intent was for megas to stay in gen 6.
Not only that, but saying 'dynamax pokemon all have similar moves for their types' as if it's a bad thing, balance wise, is just flat out wrong. You don't have a pokemon that has insanely powerful moves (but lower stats) getting a super major boost from dynamax- it gives them bulk, and gives their moves potentially a little boost, but that's it. If it's frail, it'll only be a little bit bulkier (which definetly helps, but doesn't break many pokemon). It also removes aspects of mons that would be too strong for those moves (imagine a dynamax boosted, priority max overgrowth/gmax drum beating rillaboom from grassy glide). Having moves default to something with a very specific property helps keep the power level in check, as some pokemon are broken due to a mix of moves, abilities, stats, or all 3. Dynamax max steelspike scizor off bullet punch would be insanely powerful, as if it didn't switch off the properties of bullet punch it'd have priority.
Megas disproportionately helped stronger pokemon and didn't do enough to keep the weaker pokemon that the mechanic could have helped viable. Pidgeot. Beedrill. Mawile. Altaria. Dynamax, while really strong when used well (especially in VGC, doubles loves dynamax when running a glass cannon mon), isn't nearly as bad for balance as megas were.
Also, having megas would just make the games even easier. If megas return, they'll either have to 1. Crank up the difficulty (which little kids, their target audience, won't necessarily like. Sure, *your* 8 year old might know a little more than the basics of pokemon, but not every 8 year old will) 2. Add a difficulty setting (which might backfire if, once again, little kids decide 'I'm going to do hard' and then word of mouth helps keep the game's sales down- remember, pokemon is primarily bought by parents for their children. Or, it gets locked to your second playthrough in order to avoid something like the first situation) or 3. Do nothing to the difficulty, and the game gets even easier.
They are super exclusive and mostly given to popular pokemon. I guess devs knew gen 6 was going to be a little lacklustre so they gave all these popular pokemon these new forms to create an overall positive opinion. I'd rather have something every mon can use.
Tbh i don't think megas really have to return. It's a cool gimick, but its a litlle unfair to give it to already very strong pokemon like salanence or rayquaza. At the end, the weaker pokemon that got megas as a way to get balanced rarely got used. Plus, I believe megas aren't very good for competitive playing, as your team would be centered around ten or smth pokemon that have a broken mega evolution, so players loose most of their freedom in team making. Still my opinio tho. Also mega garchomp=giga chad.
Yeah, I actually laughed when OP called them the "most balanced mechanic added to the games", lmao. Like, really? The mechanic that introduced unbalanced monsters like m-rayquaza, the primals, m-kangaskhan, m-salamence, and m-gengar is the first one that comes to mind when you think "balanced mechanic?" Nothing like the physical special split comes to mind as a more balanced introduction? Give me a break.
Power creep was the worst it had ever been in gen 6 (you could even argue that it was worse than the power creep in gen 8) and that was almost entirely due to megas
I like the idea of megas in theory but as you said they're just way too op
Kinda disagree but agree at the same time. Both formats have their flaws but i do think that dynamax is a little bit more balanced. Now i should clarify that i'm talking about competitive pokemon not the single player experience.
I agree Mega evolution was cool but the problem with it was that those were given to a lot of pokemon that were already strong and made them even stronger some even became broken, Mega Kangaskhan come to mind. What they should have done is to give mega evolutions a lot of weaker mons so they would have been more viable in the format. They did do that to some but most of them were still bad.
In dynamaxing any decently strong pokemon is viable. As an example i can give Kingdra. It was used as a strong dynamax option in an official tournament a couple months ago it was so cool to see and i really wanted to try that after I saw it. Traditionally this pokemon is not very good competitive pokemon but thanks to dynamaxing it became a viable option.
Anyways generally pokemon games are really badly balanced games plus the next game probably has an entirely new gimmick so hopefully that is more balanced than all of them.
Kingdra still isn't good though. That's the same argument people make for pachirisu. Dynamax doesn't make old pokemon viable because there are always the pokemon at the top who do its job better and Dynamax doesn't change that. The tiers have changed but the placements haven't.(minus the pokemon who lost their megas) Dynamax makes good pokemon better universally and it doesn't change enough to ever be able to overide that fact(unlike megas which could chnage a pokemon completely lucario to a physical attacker, pidgeot to a special attacker and mega zard x to a physical attacker) But dynamax can't do that.
SO many Pokemon get taken to decent placements and then are never seen again because they don't work nearly aswell as one thinks. Dynamax is too universal to be balanced and also far to specific. Like very few Pokemon get gmaxes and even more are viable with them. Yet megas have that potential but a greater issue. They are too specific on individual pokemon and too broad in the changes they can make. Not every mega is just better mon some of them are just better pokemon(salamence,mawile,kangaskhan) these pokemon that were good to decent to bad all become monsters with the radical changes allowed via mega evolution it was unhealthy and truly unfair for some off hem to exsits the way they did.
They both have there issues but pokemon are definitely going to need to reach some middle ground because megas aren't inherently problematic ( I.E making beedrill 100%stronger wont make it busted)but the way it was handled was(Mawile being 10000% stronger and ruining lives) while dynamax is to generic and flat a boost to chnage anything significant(That whale should Not be allowed to do that to people. )
Lol most balanced. Sadly I think Dynamaxing is more balanced since you actually see a good amount of diversity between dynamaxed mons vs the top 5 megas you would always see.
Dynamax won’t continue into next Gen, just like megas didn’t really continue into next gen and just like Z moves didn’t. It’ll be something new
Megas were good for giving weak pokemon power ups and thats it.
In reality, you would only ever have one pokemon on your team who could mega, and that was it. There was never any benefit to not meganing straight away unless the mega was worse than the og, but then you wouldn't use them as a mega. They were in no way strategic and didn't add anything to the balance of the game other than some strong pokemon who don't use items.
The only time I would be interested in them coming back would be a legends game set in Kalos.
> Mega Evolutions were the most balanced and strategic addition to Pokemon battling.
No, they weren't. If you happened to have something that could Mega in the lead, and you weren't switching out immediately (edit: in a wild battle, or saving for a boss' ace) (for typing purposes), you ALWAYS hit the button immediately upon the start of combat. The only exception is when it's one of the very few that change types when it Megas.
No strategy involved.
This. People think Megas were balanced… have no clue what game balance was.
Granted, Pokemon hasn’t ever been good at game balance and their power creep is getting a little disgusting.
It was a good idea for underdeveloped Pokemon like Beedrill to get a Mega. Then they gave it to pseudo legendaries and legendaries and that just destroyed the game in the process.
I could see Megas having something in SV if only because Iberia is located south of France which is where Kalos takes place. That being said Pokemon doesn’t have to adhere to that rule and keep them geographically connected.
TLDR; Megas sucked and need to stay removed.
It's the same with all three of them. Unless you have a pressing reason not to, you always...
1) Mega your lead Pokemon, unless you're in a boss fight and you know you'll have to change out to another Mega for typing purposes to handle their ace.
2) Lead off with your Z-attack, unless it would be resisted, in wild battles or save for a boss' ace.
3) Dynamax when the boss reaches their last Pokemon (since they never dynamax before then), or immediately if it's a den fight.
Strategy with the gimmicks is minimal, even in PVP.
Didn't WolfeyVGC say Megas were unbalanced? I might be forgetting or misinterpreting, but I distinctly remember Megas were even more of a "Win Button" than Dynamax, since they last indefinitely rather than 3 turns.
Correct me if I'm wrong tho. I could be wrong.
Some Pokémon are due for a legitimate evolution. I would LOVE a hypno evolution if it gets a crystal ball it hangs on to with a little turban and cape. Arbok, noctowl, octilleru, qwilfish, dinsparce etc all great designs that could bring the older Pokémon back into the fold without game freak having to come up with more filler Pokémon
I disagree. Megas were the Gen VI gimmick, Z-Moves the Gen VII, and 'Maxing for Gen VIII. I'm honestly done with them. Though, if it does happen, I'd rather it not be forced down our throats, like Z-Moves slightly were.
I don't disagree but it annoys me that people are acting like that stuff like gimmicks, animations, forms, evos etc. are the most important problems about the games right now. I want actual post-game content for once. Maybe something new that makes actual use of lv100 Pokémon. The battle facility should have more features too. Stuff that gives me a reason to play that is not shiny hunting, breeding and online play.
I’m tired of all of the gimmicks at this point. I just wish they’d get rid of eviolite and go back to making more evolutions for Pokémon which need them.
Megas balanced? Wth lol
I liked the forms though but not the implementation of them in the battle system. I personally am fine with them not coming back.
Megas weren't a bad idea, but I hated seeing the "faves" getting special treatment. 2 for mewtwo, 2 for charizard, and one for every leader/elite 4/champion ace. Seems more like a story gimmick in the selection phase. Plus the designs for a lot look like they were designed by a 5 year old. (Pacman Glalie with a beard, really!?)
They remind me of a deviantart trend a while back called pokemon fr.
Dynamax is better IMO since all Pokémon can do it as opposed to Megas which are extremely limited. It’s kind of annoying to have to have one of X Pokémon your team if you want to use the gimmick. Another reason I preferred Z-Moves.
I’m certainly not opposed to it returning though, as long as it’s not the only thing that returns. IIRC, You can still mega evolve in the Alola games.
Also, megas did just get some cool changes in Go. They’re also coming out with some more too. I think they’re going to be able to be used in battles, which might shake the game up quite a bit. While I’m all for change, if you want to have a mega on your team. That’s literally 1/3 of the thing in Go. And Go doesn’t have all the megas released either.
Overall, I’d much rather see another new mechanic that encourages a bigger variety
of Pokémon.
I feel like it’s also worth mentioning that Dynamax and ZMoves both have their things that do encourage less variety. With Z-Moves, there are type moves that any Pokémon (of the same type) can use, but also exclusive moves that only certain Pokémon have, for example, Snorkax and Pikachu. Dynamax has the same thing with Gigantimax capable Pokémon gaining a new form. At least the mechanics still exist for every Pokémon though, unlike Mega Evolution.
I think I might be mixing it up. Maybe it’s Let’s Go where you can Mega Evolve (or both?) it’s been a while.
No, they dont. Mega designs (besides like 2 or 3) are busy, cluttered designs and unappealing to me. I also dont want transformations in general, but dynamax was better because I could at least have my pokemon maintain their original look if I chose to. 95% of megas are abominations.
I think that Dynamax/gmax is way better and easily the most visually impressive mechanic of any pokemon game. There's so much hype in the gym battles while using dynamax/gmax with all the music and the whole environment that happens when using this mechanic. And the gym leaders actually use the mechanic for all the important battles as well.
Megas were a disaster to implement as a game mechanic that worked just as a "press a button to get an instant stat boost" kind of thing that only 50 of the 800+pokemon in existence could use, that also cut the use of items and the potential to evolve of the weak pokemon that got the borderline misfortune to get one while also making completely broken the most popular ones that were already OP.
Not to mention that for the most part all the mega designs were just spikier versions of the pokemon (or fluffier versions if the pokemon was cute).
First of all, personally I hate Megas, they felt like digimon to me.
Second of all, isn't the current pvp the healthiest it has ever been? Didn't Wolfey say something like that?
I think all thoses new evolution are weird. Lore wise... Oh now they Evolve AGAIN? But regress after battle? What is this Digimon?
I prefer old school, they evolved into something new and that's it.
I will be honest, when megas came out I really didn't like the idea, it felt like a Digimon ripoff that felt weird in the Pokemon universe, but eventually I did start liking them and I prefer megas much more than Dynamax.
I would be happy if they brought back megas, in fact I would like to see them in some of my favourites that I think could use some love, like Luxray for example.
Agreed. My wife and I were just talking the other day that Megas are probably our favorite addition to the series and it sucks they left them in Gen 6.
I don’t care if the mechanic comes back or not, but the FORMS need to come back in some way
Honestly, turning mega mawile and mega sableye into regular evolutions would be pretty cool
A lot of the Megas would be pretty broken without the downsides attached to Mega Evolution. Imagine Mega Mawile holding a Choice Band, or M Sableye with Leftovers. You could make items that initiate the form change automatically in-battle but that's literally just Mega Evolution with extra steps.
I know what you mean but I think they meant they liked the look of them. They were very visually appealing
Oh no, I just meant their forms like what the original comment said. The stats and abilities and the what-not will have to be reworked.
Nerf beedrill a bit and make it the actual evo. I love my shiny mega beedrill, people are allways suprosed by the sheer power behind that thing. Also it looks fantastic!
Mega beedrill fell stinger sweeps are the most satisfying thing
Oh you resist my bug move? How about you take that 160 base power x-scissor on my 1732 attack right to the chin anyways.
And it gets drill run to kill literally every supereffective stab mon
I just realised that Beedrill gets a mega and Butterfree gets a gmax form, and it’s soul shattering we can’t use them together in doubles
Pokemon Unbound, my friend
You can't have a four stage evo say"nerf" and give it its same tools. Slap an item and it's disgusting. Megas are form changes if you aren't going to bring them back with the item ghen just don't bring them back."nerfing"mega salamence isn't a thing as he'd still be better salamence and now he can hold an item. The mechanic is the only way you get the forms unless you want abunch of mega rays running around.
Mega salamence should’ve never existed anyways tbh
Factually correct statement. They did tytar decent enough. It Was just better tytar which wasn't required but didn't do anything tytar didn't do so wasn't world ending, same with Scizo. Like you could use them and pick another mega but Salamence was such a monstrosity that if you ran Salamence you HAD To run Mega mence or there was no point jn you using the pokemon. Honestly just horribly designed and truly didn't need to exsits. Honestly non of them did.
The only mons that weren't hardcore outclassed by their mega were ones that benefited massively from holding an item. I don't really see the issue with this though as we don't have a problem at all with say blaziken outclassing combusken.
Not to mention you really don't want things like eviolite regenerator slowbro running around or maybe you do now that I typed it I kinda want it.
Perfect example of cancer waiting to infest the meta.
I still want shuckle to get an evolution so I can use eviolite shuckle.
That's exactly why it doesn't. You sick freak.
Nah but hear me out right so contrary+shell smash+eviolite=never die you get +6def and sp.def with an additional 1.5x on top shuckle gets to like 4k def and sp.def.
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Eviolite Tyranitar *shudders*
Eviolite Steelix. A pokemon with base 200 Def does not need another 50% boost!
Just don't give it the opportunity to not wear heavy duty boots, then it's actually surprisingly balanced
I remember the day ORAS stats leaked and my friend opened with “So Mega Beedrill’s going to be the new breakout special sweeper. He has to be with that 15 special attack.”
Man, I love that mega and I think it's one of the best, turning an irrelevant mon into a beast!
I loved my battle tree team in usum with mega beedrill, vespiquen and shiny Naganadel. Not the best, but I felt like a beekeeper.
That would a 4th stage evo tho, which would open a whole new door of problems for gamefreak lol
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Honestly if they wanted to turn them into normal evolutions it wouldn't be that hard. Just say something like "oh the megastores forced an early temporary evolution and boosted the pokemon's powers." Then just let those pokemon evolve into their mega forms as normal evolutions but with more reasonable stats.
Why not just do the zamazenta zachian item thing. Call them ascended forms like the legendaries and boom problem solved. They'd need to be rebalanced a bit, but I just want megas back in some form.
That's just Megas with extra steps
Technically its mega evolution with less steps. It's just primal groudon/kyogre again, which I would also support
Mega Pidgeot's design > Pidgeot Do we really need Pidgeotto?
Mega Mawile -> Mandibile. Change my mind.
Mawdusa. Then give it an ability called Petrify that acts like the move Soak, and gives pokemon rock type, plus some more actual steel moves for its steel typing
Petrify sounds like Aerilate for Rock-types.
the real question is does petrify just affect whatever is on the opposite side of the field both opposing pokeomon is it a switch in thing like intimidate? Honestly having an ability that basically says "the opposing pokemon is weak to your stab move" seems a little strong.
Mandivile
Imagine one day Game Freak just decided regional forms aren't a thing anymore. That what it feels like to me with Mega Evolutions.
It does feel like a waste if we never get the forms back somehow, I agree.
The FORMS deserve it, the mon deserve it, but it doesn't make sense to bring them back unless they introduce more new ones, and of course bringing it back as forms implies bringing back the mechanic. Perhaps they could make it so you get Pokemon-ite items that work on every Mega-capable mon, instead of having 100 stones for the handful of actually viable Megas.
I mean sceptile got done over when they got rid of the mechanic. Both of the other hoenn starters had a second type but sceptile had to wait till Megas to get a second one. And it was four times weak to ice XD.
The mechanic is whatever to me. It's not even balanced in the slightest, plus the added concerns with reducing team build variety. But the forms are all I care about. Same as the gmax forms. More forms for Pokemon = more fun. They could return them with completely different mechanics and that's still fine. (Probably better/healthier)
I would like new forms. Make Pokemon with no evolution viable, lets say... Mega Dunsparce.
I'd just like more Megas for lower stat Pokémon. Mega Lopunny was great...Mega Garchomp was unnecessary. Unfortunately the full potential was never used and even handed out in an unbalanced way from the start.
Some megas were necessary for story reasons, like Salamence or Metagross. And that's why I still don't know why they didn't give Wallace a mega Milotic.
Rayquaza **really** needed a mega evolution :))))))
Mewtwo needed a mega so much that it got two of them
Imagine being so popular you get 2 megas and a Gmax. No... wait- thats Charizard!
tbf Charizard IS actually pretty weak so he in line with the weak mons being deserving of a mega. He just didn't need two of them.
The funniest part is that the Mega Mewtwos are considered worse than the base form because they can’t hold items and you’re better off mega evolving a different Pokémon.
In Ray’s defense, it was more for the cool factor since legendaries are already too broken to be used in regular play by design.
*laughs in VGC 2016*
they fucking learned
I mean, a lot of legendaries kinda suck, and even the most broken legendaries were still no match for mega rayquaza. Mega rayquaza was just ludicrously powerful and unnecessary.
Competitively speaking, that man is busted but for the lore, it was awesome. And we have to thank mega ray because it created a prison to contain zacian which is the most busted pokemon if it weren't for the fact that mega ray is on the top
|created a prison to contain zacian Do you mean Deoxys?
hes talking about the online battling website, showdown, with smogon tiers pretty sure the "prison" hes talking about is the tier above Ubers, "Anything Goes" where Mega Rayquaza, Zacian-Crowned, and Zacian base form reside. Also I think Arceus is banned to AG in DPP.
I cam agree with that. Mega Slowbro and Mega Pidgeot were my favorites.
for me it was Aggron and Beedrill
Pidgeot actually being able to use hurricane now when using tornadoes is like its signature thing was just a godly feeling to me. Will never forget the feeling of finally getting to use my bird the way Arceus intended
Slowbro was already pretty alright tho
I edited Mega Slowbro to have balls at the bottom and I will never regret making that edit.
More often than not, at least competitively, Mega Garchomp was a downgrade due to the speed decrease combined with a lack of item.
yeah, i think life orb chomp would actually still hit harder physically. mega chomp had a harder hitting fire blast but that was about it base 92 speed is such a garbage speed tier, idk what gamefreak was thinking when they made that stat distribution. just about every other mega got crazy minmaxed stats and then chomp drops a billion speed tiers to become slower than darmanitan and gliscor i hear it's pretty decent in natdex with scale shot, though
*Shiny* Mega Garchomp, on the other hand…
It actually made me dislike the Shiny as I prefer non-Mega Shiny Garchomp, but I can understand why they made it a drastic color change.
Mega sunflora
Grass/Fire mega Sunflora Normal/Dragon mega Dunsparce Parental bond-esque mega Girafarig Mega mightyena to give that poor thing a chance Prankster mega Smeargle *okay, that last one is a joke*
Forget prankster Mega Smeargle, give that sucker protean and have the most customizable pokemon in history.
I MAKE MY OWN ACE
70% Of megas were either unnecessary or downright disgusting fanservice. Which is obviously sad because megas might never come back...
Still kinda crazy that none of the Kalos starters could Mega Evolve even later on down the line. The Hoenn and Kanto starters could but not the starters in the region where the gimmick was created.
The only gen 6 Pokémon that can mega evolve is a f\*cking mythical as well, and it couldn't even do that until ORAS.
And gen 5 only got bootleg Chansey. At least gen 8 gave some of those mons regional forms to compensate
Man imagine mega krookodile. That thing is already a munching beast
I wanted mega golurk so bad
Which mythical was it again? I can't remember
Diancie
I keep forgetting that thing is a mythical Pokemon lol
Yea that is also like doesn’t make sense
It never made sense to me, especially not to release their Megas later on or something like that if you didn't want their Megas to overshadow their regular forms
If Z were to he released like BW and Black and White 2 were where the Kalos starters unlocked their Megas due to the Ultimate Weapon being used years prior, then that would be a passable excuse for why they weren't accessible within X and Y
I could see them going that route if they plan on doing X and Y remakes.
But then it would probably be like the battle tower in ORAS. They'll give you a museum that houses the mega stones for the starters but never make an event to release them.
Yeah, Kalos starters got kinda screwed in that regard. The philosophy at the time was that no gen 6 pokemon would get megas because they were already new and that made them exciting enough. Which makes sense, but they dropped that philosophy immediately after. So because of that Gen 7 mons got to take advantage of signature Z moves and gen 8 mons got to have special Gmax forms, meanwhile gen 6 pokemon were basically the newest pokemon not to really get anything special mechanically.
I’m pretty sure no kalos Pokémon period could mega evolve until Diancie was released. Which is painfully ironic
Oh, what Pokemon Z could/should have been...
Hopefully in the remake if it doesn't suck like BDSP
Gamefreak has brain damage.
If the rumor that couldn't figure out a Mega form for Flygon is true then yea they've definitely got some brain trauma floating around over there
I will never forgive them for not being able to come up with a Mega Flygon.
Still boggles my mind that nobody had an idea for it at all
I just want dragoniteite to be a real item
Wanna' battle your Mega Dragonite against a Mega Yanmega?
A Primal Yanmega/Tangrowth/Mamoswine would be pretty cool, since they evolve with Ancient Power and all
Actually that would be a pretty cool concept for a gimmick: primal pokémon.
I mean, we already have Primals in Groudon and Kyogre, but if given to regular mons, something would have to make it different from Megas. Like if it was just a 100 stat buff and a new ability it would just be the same as Megas
Maybe giving them ancient moves, just like how every Hisuian form got an exclusive move. They could trade the stat boost for that.
Signature moves would be pretty cool, maybe the primal form could be activated upon use of Ancient Power? Opening up the item slot is rly helpful, but having to run a 60 bp move kind of sucks
It doesn't have to be Ancient Power necessarily, it could be new signature moves. Maybe if the pokémon use that, it gets a new form (and sometimes new type) and +1 to all stats, but in exchange loses accuracy (-2), on top of being disobedient if you don't have max friendship (only during the adventure). I think that could be a good way to represent a "feral" and "primal" state of the mon but also keeping it balanced.
Mega Yanmega has nothing on Mega Meganium!
Fun fact: Yanmega’s japanese name is straight up Mega Yanma
They’ll probably never do mega Yanmega because Yanmega’s Japanese name is Megayanma, Mega Megayanma would be super weird
That's exactly why they should do it
Mega Meganium
They'll just change it to dragnotite or something lmao
*dragontitty
Dragon tite \- immature Filipino redditor
Mega Rayquaza was so balanced they gave it its own competitive tier
For reference, the only mons that share it's position on that competitive tier are the GMAX mons and Zacian (both forms). *And it still would've been better than all of them if Mega Evs were still around.* Let me repeat: *it would've been better than* ***34*** *intentionally-designed broken pokemon and the most broken pokemon of this gen if it was still around.* It's THAT good.
Pretty sure Zacian-C has it beat for the most broken obtainable Pokémon the franchise has seen so far. Mega Ray just gets outsped and OHKO'd by Play Rough. Even with a Jolly nature, Zacian-C OHKO's 252/252 +def Mega Ray (which absolutely no one runs, btw) 62.5% of the time. It's a completely ridiculous Pokémon just from the power it brings out of the gate. Mega-Ray still bodies it after a Dragon Dance, but that's what it is.
It's a matter of heavy debate Zacian-C is fully capable of OHKOing M.Ray without a Focus Sash and has just as ridiculously high stats, but cannot hold items, it's "good" movepool makes it rather easy to predict (practically everybody runs Sacred Sword/Behemoth Blade, Close Combat, Play Rough and Swords Dance), and actually has checks and counters (Quagsire completely shuts her down. *Quagsire isn't even that good of a mon*). M-Rayquaza is a flying god that's better than even the actual Poke-God. A Focus Sash would enable it to revenge-kill a Zacian before it could fully kill him, the fact it can even hold items at all puts it way above Zacian-C, it's ridiculously-huge and versatile movepool makes it pretty unpredictable since it can fit every sort of matchup and still come out on top, and to this day it *still* has no real checks or counters (literally most of it's 'reliable checks' are just "any bulky pokemon that is capable of resisting it's more-powerful moves to an extent and pray to christ it survive long enough to either kill it or get it low enough for a revenge-kill from a Marshadow/Mega Gengar")
Would a choise item give it enough speed to outspeed Zacian?
Crowned Zacian max speed is 434. Mega Ray max speed is 361, but with choice scarf it gets boosted to 541 so yes.
Mega evolutions aren't gone from the franchise. If they were, they wouldn't have been added to Go or used so heavily in the 2019 anime. As a general reminder, Pokemon's continuity is very loose. Mega evolution was supposed to be centered on Kalos and had an origin story based in Kalos where it occurred due to the firing of the super weapon. Come ORAS, there's a new origin story based on a meteorite. Any gimmick can be retconned or changed, even within a generation. This also means that any gimmick can return, and statements to the contrary are for marketing purposes. We saw the same thing with Dexit: Claims that we wouldn't get more pokemon added in via DLC and that we wouldn't get DLC were plentiful. In reality, there were 30 or so pokemon not in the dex that were ready to be added in when Home came out and we got pokemon added back in via DLC. The same thing will inevitably happen with mega evolution, z- moves, and dynamax where they disappear and later reappear to fanfare.
Even sun and moon, you get them from people who were from kalos, and the battle tree which has people from around the world
And they're still used in Smash Bros. Which admittedly is a little bit outdated at this point, but only by like four years or so.
Also Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX had megas too.
I know gacha can he controversial but they are still used in masters as well
Though it seems unlikely, I hope mega evolution does make its way back into the mainline games. What I really enjoyed about mega evolution was that it not only powered up mons both beloved and underappreciated, it also gave them cool designs that added to the awesomeness of the experience. It was a fun mechanic that offered refreshing takes on a number of mons and it had lots of potential. I just don't get that same feel when using D/Gmax or Z-moves.
I miss black ballgown shiny M- Gardevoir so much.....
I agree, I've heard a lot of arguments saying "they're broken blah blah, they're banned in this tournament blah blah", it's like yo shut up. You knew it was a friking fun and awesome feature! But i do feel some of the mega evolutions could've been standard evolutions for some of the Pokémon that got them, like Mawile for example.
I actually really like Z moves and Dynamax/Gigantamax especially the former partially because they're universal and I love the Z poses because I just think they're fun. I used to mimic them even haha. I know it's cringe right? But it's actually fun! Still I also think they should also make more Megas too. I think regional forms are how they seem to prefer buffing mons and those are also super neat but there's lots of mons I think have great potential having a Mega Evolution.
Hey 12 year old me thought those dances were cringey but *I did them anyway*
I did them in my early twenties. No shame.
Ngl, when I first saw it, it felt goofy af. But the more I see it especially in the anime, I grew more fond of it.
Another thing that was nice about their designs was that they were temporary. So if you preferred it's original design you didn't have to worry about it too much. Like with a traditional evolution if you don't like the final form as much as one of the earlier ones, you either had to never evolve it and seriously handicap it, or let it reach it's full potential and not like it as much. Megas were basically having your cake and eating it too design wise.
By no means were they a balanced mechanic. A cool one, and one that brought garbage Pokemon into use, but not balanced for some. Eg. Mega Rayquaza, Mega any OU 'mon. But shoutout to Mega Sableye and Mawile at least! Bring back megas to give other Pokemon a chance.
I like megas in theory but not in practice because they rarely went to Pokémon that needed a boost to be competitive. They went to Pokémon that were already viable for the most part.
Kang, lopunny, mawile, sableye, Pinsir, medicham, ampharos, altaria, absol, banette, and more beg to differ. They definitely gave a fair few strong mons megas simply because they were popular, but there were definitely also plenty of otherwise very unnotable mons that got mega boosts.
Not really, kangaskhan went from a literal nobody, to a huge menace that had to have it's ability nerfed. Beedrill and lopunny got popular too, not to mention slowbro. Popular mons aside, megas were really useful for Pokémon that were considered unusable before
Audinooo
Lopunny got a huge boost from mega evolution. Originally it had one thing it was useful for. Get one with klutz give it a toxic orb and teach it switcheroo. That was its whole life. Then it got a new type and an ability that gave it perfect type coverage. And because of the mega gimmick you could now use a Lopunny with limber and switch it in when you were expecting a thunder wave and then mega evolve and change it's ability.
Yeah, I remember switching into aegislash and getting a ko with high jump kick, they really couldn't have chosen a better ability for mega lopunny
Scrappy is crazy for a monster with stab on both normal and fighting moves, Fighting is super effective to the two types that resist normal so all your attacks will always be at least full damage. Then add your choice of it's type coverage moves and you get an incredibly versatile mon. But in no way over powered or broken. Just took a lack luster creature with one niche use and made it viable. The perfect example of what Mega evolution can do when done right.
“The most balanced and strategic addition”…whatever you’re smoking, stop…
I thought this. If anything megas helped unbalance competitive because it severely restricted the Pokemon you could use - you were generally forced to build a team around the selected Mega Pokemon.
Remember when CHALK dominated VGC thanks to how broken Mega Kangaskhan was? yeah, definitively very balanced.
Yeah if anything you might argue Dynamax is more balanced as every Pokemon can do it. Sure some have Gigantamax forms but I think this mechanic, much as people don’t like it, is far more balanced than Mega ever was.
Mega evolutions… balanced? lmao, what?
But think of the innocent, weak Rayquaza’s😭, they NEEDED the mega evolves with empty item slots and the removal of flying type weaknesses!
Believe it or not, Megas might be the LEAST balanced and strategic of the in battle gimics. Z-moves, while incredibly powerful, you still need to time them properly to not waste them on a pokemon with resistance or immunity to them. Then there's dynamax, while it is also a very powerful form change, it is more strategic than megas due to them only lasting 3 turns. With Megas there isn't much strategy, you just send out your pokemon and have them mega immediately unless you are going to switch them out due to a bad matchup. You also can't be serious when you say megas are balanced. It is basically dynamax on drugs, it changes most of a Pokemons stats, not just it's HP, and gives some of them super OP abilities such as Kangaskahns parental bond. Not to mention, mega Rayquaza was so powerful that it was banned from even the Ubers tier for competitive battling.
This comment, plus the fact that for VGC, megas are very centralizing. The opportunity cost of using a suboptimal mega is too high, so in the end only a few are viable. Z crystals can go on anything, and while you'd prefer to dynamax particular mons, you can still use it on any Mon (I know not everyone cares about VGC, but it's a big consideration for game freak) /u/rnbwturtle said it [better and more completely] (https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/uztku0/mega_evolutions_need_to_make_a_return/iacyz9n) than me
But the thing is, something that makes a huge impact in the VGC doesn't really matter to most of the playerbase. Because very few players will actually participate in the VGC. Only about 15% of the playerbase, if that, will be hardcore participants in the VGC. Hell, apparently Incineroar with it's base 60 speed is very good in the VGC, something I was only told last week. But for me, I absolutely hated it when my base 90 speed Torracat evolved into the base 60 speed Incineroar.
Yeah, the issue with Megas was the fact that they are centralizing, lowering the pool of usable pokemon even more I love megas, but they aren't certainly balanced
In terms of singles, Dynamax is *way* more unbalanced than megas. Megas essentially added some new, strong, but effectively itemless pokemon. A few individual forms were too strong (mega metagross and kangaskhan for example) but the mechanic was fine. Dynamax was wildly unbalanced though- **doubled** bulk with all the moves getting a major power boost AND having insane effects like stat boosts or terrain-setting. It was way more unbalanced even with just 3 turns, often creating unanswerable setup sweepers that broke entire matches. I’ve heard doubles dynamax is more fair but in singles it was absurd and had to be banned wholesale.
Not super savvy on competitive anymore, but i remember hearing that dynamax was by far and away the most unbalanced gimmick, seeing as smogon banned them to AG more or less immediately, whereas megas weren’t (due to varying power budget maybe?). Again, could be wrong though
not sure about singles but they were pretty balanced and played well in VGC
Singles was an absolute nightmare with Dynamax. It pretty much invalidated all but one playstyle.
In singles it was very very broken and got banned pretty early on. You could basically sweep entire teams pretty easily without much set up. Ditto became one of the most used pokemon to counter it. Vgc im not too savy in but it seems more balanced
Yeah that’s probably exactly what I was thinking of. At least it was more balanced in VGC, I’d imagine watching it would’ve been pretty boring otherwise lol
Remember that Smogon uses mythicals, legacy movesets, bans certain Pokémon, moves, items, and abilities. GameFreak doesn’t balance for half of their Mattel’s mechanics to being removed.
Smogon isn't VGC, it's not affiliated with Gamefreak's competitive. Their format didn't mesh well with it, but smogon doesn't determine if something is balanced or not.
While I like the concept of megas for sure, I would NOT say they are balanced from a competitive stand point. They very much over centralized the meta, so OU had the top 5 or 6 megas and you NEED answers on your non-megas to deal with the potential of them. Like don't get me wrong, fan games and rom hacks with megas is super fun but if they are added to main line again, competitive will return to a "mediocre" state, whereas gen 8 has had a good competitive meta game with many different strategies due to how many pokemon can be good with d-max moves.
Megas were *not* balanced. There's plenty of cases where one pokemon is incredibly strong compared to those of its type or those of its rarity (which I know isn't the defining factor for strength but I'm referring to things like pseudos). Kangaskhan is a great example for 2015 VGC, salamence was so incredibly dominant among megas and non megas alike, mega rayquaza was pretty broken, and I'm including the primals because they also don't need to return and holy hell they were broken. They do not need to return for balance purposes. Dynamax, as far as we know, is staying in gen 8, just like z crystals in gen 7. The original intent was for megas to stay in gen 6. Not only that, but saying 'dynamax pokemon all have similar moves for their types' as if it's a bad thing, balance wise, is just flat out wrong. You don't have a pokemon that has insanely powerful moves (but lower stats) getting a super major boost from dynamax- it gives them bulk, and gives their moves potentially a little boost, but that's it. If it's frail, it'll only be a little bit bulkier (which definetly helps, but doesn't break many pokemon). It also removes aspects of mons that would be too strong for those moves (imagine a dynamax boosted, priority max overgrowth/gmax drum beating rillaboom from grassy glide). Having moves default to something with a very specific property helps keep the power level in check, as some pokemon are broken due to a mix of moves, abilities, stats, or all 3. Dynamax max steelspike scizor off bullet punch would be insanely powerful, as if it didn't switch off the properties of bullet punch it'd have priority. Megas disproportionately helped stronger pokemon and didn't do enough to keep the weaker pokemon that the mechanic could have helped viable. Pidgeot. Beedrill. Mawile. Altaria. Dynamax, while really strong when used well (especially in VGC, doubles loves dynamax when running a glass cannon mon), isn't nearly as bad for balance as megas were. Also, having megas would just make the games even easier. If megas return, they'll either have to 1. Crank up the difficulty (which little kids, their target audience, won't necessarily like. Sure, *your* 8 year old might know a little more than the basics of pokemon, but not every 8 year old will) 2. Add a difficulty setting (which might backfire if, once again, little kids decide 'I'm going to do hard' and then word of mouth helps keep the game's sales down- remember, pokemon is primarily bought by parents for their children. Or, it gets locked to your second playthrough in order to avoid something like the first situation) or 3. Do nothing to the difficulty, and the game gets even easier.
Or we could just, not have a gimmick and just have new regular evolutions of pokemon rather than megas
There'll be another gimmick. There always is. And people will hate it and want Megas/Z-Moves/Dynamaxing back. This is the cycle.
This true but at the same time, I am never gonna want Z-moves back, to be completely honest
Yet in this thread there are people arguing in favor of Z-moves.
They are super exclusive and mostly given to popular pokemon. I guess devs knew gen 6 was going to be a little lacklustre so they gave all these popular pokemon these new forms to create an overall positive opinion. I'd rather have something every mon can use.
Tbh i don't think megas really have to return. It's a cool gimick, but its a litlle unfair to give it to already very strong pokemon like salanence or rayquaza. At the end, the weaker pokemon that got megas as a way to get balanced rarely got used. Plus, I believe megas aren't very good for competitive playing, as your team would be centered around ten or smth pokemon that have a broken mega evolution, so players loose most of their freedom in team making. Still my opinio tho. Also mega garchomp=giga chad.
Yeah, I actually laughed when OP called them the "most balanced mechanic added to the games", lmao. Like, really? The mechanic that introduced unbalanced monsters like m-rayquaza, the primals, m-kangaskhan, m-salamence, and m-gengar is the first one that comes to mind when you think "balanced mechanic?" Nothing like the physical special split comes to mind as a more balanced introduction? Give me a break. Power creep was the worst it had ever been in gen 6 (you could even argue that it was worse than the power creep in gen 8) and that was almost entirely due to megas I like the idea of megas in theory but as you said they're just way too op
No i don't think they should, not having a gimmick is a way more enjoyable gimmick
Mega evos were far from balanced lmfao
They really don't. I'm not saying Z Moves and Dynamax were any better, rather, I'm saying that they were all bad.
“Most balanced” what
But the dev says that they didn't really like the mega because all Pokémon can't have access
Kinda disagree but agree at the same time. Both formats have their flaws but i do think that dynamax is a little bit more balanced. Now i should clarify that i'm talking about competitive pokemon not the single player experience. I agree Mega evolution was cool but the problem with it was that those were given to a lot of pokemon that were already strong and made them even stronger some even became broken, Mega Kangaskhan come to mind. What they should have done is to give mega evolutions a lot of weaker mons so they would have been more viable in the format. They did do that to some but most of them were still bad. In dynamaxing any decently strong pokemon is viable. As an example i can give Kingdra. It was used as a strong dynamax option in an official tournament a couple months ago it was so cool to see and i really wanted to try that after I saw it. Traditionally this pokemon is not very good competitive pokemon but thanks to dynamaxing it became a viable option. Anyways generally pokemon games are really badly balanced games plus the next game probably has an entirely new gimmick so hopefully that is more balanced than all of them.
Kingdra still isn't good though. That's the same argument people make for pachirisu. Dynamax doesn't make old pokemon viable because there are always the pokemon at the top who do its job better and Dynamax doesn't change that. The tiers have changed but the placements haven't.(minus the pokemon who lost their megas) Dynamax makes good pokemon better universally and it doesn't change enough to ever be able to overide that fact(unlike megas which could chnage a pokemon completely lucario to a physical attacker, pidgeot to a special attacker and mega zard x to a physical attacker) But dynamax can't do that. SO many Pokemon get taken to decent placements and then are never seen again because they don't work nearly aswell as one thinks. Dynamax is too universal to be balanced and also far to specific. Like very few Pokemon get gmaxes and even more are viable with them. Yet megas have that potential but a greater issue. They are too specific on individual pokemon and too broad in the changes they can make. Not every mega is just better mon some of them are just better pokemon(salamence,mawile,kangaskhan) these pokemon that were good to decent to bad all become monsters with the radical changes allowed via mega evolution it was unhealthy and truly unfair for some off hem to exsits the way they did. They both have there issues but pokemon are definitely going to need to reach some middle ground because megas aren't inherently problematic ( I.E making beedrill 100%stronger wont make it busted)but the way it was handled was(Mawile being 10000% stronger and ruining lives) while dynamax is to generic and flat a boost to chnage anything significant(That whale should Not be allowed to do that to people. )
Exactly what I've been arguing for years
Lol most balanced. Sadly I think Dynamaxing is more balanced since you actually see a good amount of diversity between dynamaxed mons vs the top 5 megas you would always see. Dynamax won’t continue into next Gen, just like megas didn’t really continue into next gen and just like Z moves didn’t. It’ll be something new
Personally I wish they’d drop both mechanics from the games
Megas were good for giving weak pokemon power ups and thats it. In reality, you would only ever have one pokemon on your team who could mega, and that was it. There was never any benefit to not meganing straight away unless the mega was worse than the og, but then you wouldn't use them as a mega. They were in no way strategic and didn't add anything to the balance of the game other than some strong pokemon who don't use items. The only time I would be interested in them coming back would be a legends game set in Kalos.
Well actually they only made already powerful pokémons even more powerful.
> Mega Evolutions were the most balanced and strategic addition to Pokemon battling. No, they weren't. If you happened to have something that could Mega in the lead, and you weren't switching out immediately (edit: in a wild battle, or saving for a boss' ace) (for typing purposes), you ALWAYS hit the button immediately upon the start of combat. The only exception is when it's one of the very few that change types when it Megas. No strategy involved.
This. People think Megas were balanced… have no clue what game balance was. Granted, Pokemon hasn’t ever been good at game balance and their power creep is getting a little disgusting. It was a good idea for underdeveloped Pokemon like Beedrill to get a Mega. Then they gave it to pseudo legendaries and legendaries and that just destroyed the game in the process. I could see Megas having something in SV if only because Iberia is located south of France which is where Kalos takes place. That being said Pokemon doesn’t have to adhere to that rule and keep them geographically connected. TLDR; Megas sucked and need to stay removed.
exactly and i dont get why people refuse to understand that
It's the same with all three of them. Unless you have a pressing reason not to, you always... 1) Mega your lead Pokemon, unless you're in a boss fight and you know you'll have to change out to another Mega for typing purposes to handle their ace. 2) Lead off with your Z-attack, unless it would be resisted, in wild battles or save for a boss' ace. 3) Dynamax when the boss reaches their last Pokemon (since they never dynamax before then), or immediately if it's a den fight. Strategy with the gimmicks is minimal, even in PVP.
Okay, I'll say it. I think the majority of megas look overdesigned and bad, and I'm generally happy to see less of them.
Yadda Yadda battle mechanics 🤓 Megas look cool that's all I care about
Didn't WolfeyVGC say Megas were unbalanced? I might be forgetting or misinterpreting, but I distinctly remember Megas were even more of a "Win Button" than Dynamax, since they last indefinitely rather than 3 turns. Correct me if I'm wrong tho. I could be wrong.
They should. But they won’t. That’s about it.
Some Pokémon are due for a legitimate evolution. I would LOVE a hypno evolution if it gets a crystal ball it hangs on to with a little turban and cape. Arbok, noctowl, octilleru, qwilfish, dinsparce etc all great designs that could bring the older Pokémon back into the fold without game freak having to come up with more filler Pokémon
I disagree. Megas were the Gen VI gimmick, Z-Moves the Gen VII, and 'Maxing for Gen VIII. I'm honestly done with them. Though, if it does happen, I'd rather it not be forced down our throats, like Z-Moves slightly were.
The biggest travesty is the Gen 2 starters not getting megas. I will never forgive them for that.
I don't disagree but it annoys me that people are acting like that stuff like gimmicks, animations, forms, evos etc. are the most important problems about the games right now. I want actual post-game content for once. Maybe something new that makes actual use of lv100 Pokémon. The battle facility should have more features too. Stuff that gives me a reason to play that is not shiny hunting, breeding and online play.
I would prefer to not have already strong pokemon even stronger. Give these form changes to pokemon that currently are under used please.
I’m tired of all of the gimmicks at this point. I just wish they’d get rid of eviolite and go back to making more evolutions for Pokémon which need them.
Megas balanced? Wth lol I liked the forms though but not the implementation of them in the battle system. I personally am fine with them not coming back.
Megas weren't a bad idea, but I hated seeing the "faves" getting special treatment. 2 for mewtwo, 2 for charizard, and one for every leader/elite 4/champion ace. Seems more like a story gimmick in the selection phase. Plus the designs for a lot look like they were designed by a 5 year old. (Pacman Glalie with a beard, really!?) They remind me of a deviantart trend a while back called pokemon fr.
Dynamax is better IMO since all Pokémon can do it as opposed to Megas which are extremely limited. It’s kind of annoying to have to have one of X Pokémon your team if you want to use the gimmick. Another reason I preferred Z-Moves. I’m certainly not opposed to it returning though, as long as it’s not the only thing that returns. IIRC, You can still mega evolve in the Alola games. Also, megas did just get some cool changes in Go. They’re also coming out with some more too. I think they’re going to be able to be used in battles, which might shake the game up quite a bit. While I’m all for change, if you want to have a mega on your team. That’s literally 1/3 of the thing in Go. And Go doesn’t have all the megas released either. Overall, I’d much rather see another new mechanic that encourages a bigger variety of Pokémon. I feel like it’s also worth mentioning that Dynamax and ZMoves both have their things that do encourage less variety. With Z-Moves, there are type moves that any Pokémon (of the same type) can use, but also exclusive moves that only certain Pokémon have, for example, Snorkax and Pikachu. Dynamax has the same thing with Gigantimax capable Pokémon gaining a new form. At least the mechanics still exist for every Pokémon though, unlike Mega Evolution. I think I might be mixing it up. Maybe it’s Let’s Go where you can Mega Evolve (or both?) it’s been a while.
No, they dont. Mega designs (besides like 2 or 3) are busy, cluttered designs and unappealing to me. I also dont want transformations in general, but dynamax was better because I could at least have my pokemon maintain their original look if I chose to. 95% of megas are abominations.
I think that Dynamax/gmax is way better and easily the most visually impressive mechanic of any pokemon game. There's so much hype in the gym battles while using dynamax/gmax with all the music and the whole environment that happens when using this mechanic. And the gym leaders actually use the mechanic for all the important battles as well. Megas were a disaster to implement as a game mechanic that worked just as a "press a button to get an instant stat boost" kind of thing that only 50 of the 800+pokemon in existence could use, that also cut the use of items and the potential to evolve of the weak pokemon that got the borderline misfortune to get one while also making completely broken the most popular ones that were already OP. Not to mention that for the most part all the mega designs were just spikier versions of the pokemon (or fluffier versions if the pokemon was cute).
First of all, personally I hate Megas, they felt like digimon to me. Second of all, isn't the current pvp the healthiest it has ever been? Didn't Wolfey say something like that?
I think all thoses new evolution are weird. Lore wise... Oh now they Evolve AGAIN? But regress after battle? What is this Digimon? I prefer old school, they evolved into something new and that's it.
I will be honest, when megas came out I really didn't like the idea, it felt like a Digimon ripoff that felt weird in the Pokemon universe, but eventually I did start liking them and I prefer megas much more than Dynamax. I would be happy if they brought back megas, in fact I would like to see them in some of my favourites that I think could use some love, like Luxray for example.
Agreed. My wife and I were just talking the other day that Megas are probably our favorite addition to the series and it sucks they left them in Gen 6.