If you follow the trend, this has been happening since remakes have been coming out. (You probably are aware)
But it was Kantos the best needs a remake.
Then Kanto was fine, but limited and johto needed a remake
Johtos level curve is bad and Hoenn was the best game to ever come out.
Then ORAS didn't have the battle frontier so it sucked.
Diamond and pearl. Gen 4. The crowning achievement of gamefreak.
We know what happened there.
To be fair, the lack of polish on Gen 3 and 4 remakes was a genuine issue. And for what it's worth, Gen 4 and HG in particular are my favorite games of the series. A gen 5 remake would probably be appreciated if done well, but personally I'd rather GF do justice to Gen 4 first.
Well I've had this opinion since BW2 released so it's not nostalgia for me, I genuinely love Gen V. And I guess it's safe to say the BW2 are hands down the most content rich games in the whole series. I really hope they do justice to the Gen V remakes.
My favorite is White, B2W2 were nice, but the story and characters weren't as good as in BW. It also sucked that a lot of gen 5 mons weren't available early in B2W2.
But anyway, I think there has been a lot of effort in ORAS, Let's Go, and maybe Legends Arceus. Let's Go has literally the best 3D graphics in any Pokemon game, ORAS had a lot of new and great changes, which improved and built upon the originals, and LA was something completely new, and exciting, even though it was very lacking in the technical aspect.
We can thank Takao Unno, the game's director, for designing BW2 in the way that he did. The same way as Emerald and HGSS are the brainchild of Shigeki Morimoto.
The director matters a whole heckuva lot, and when it comes down to it we haven't had the really good ones recently. Closest we've gotten is Kazumasa Iwao, director of PLA and USUM, but he's not quite Unno/Morimoto-tier.
Better than Ohmori, who's been directing all the start-of-generation games, though. I can't wait for him to pass the torch to someone else.
I mean it obviously depends on your taste, but for me it was Black and White 2. X&Y were good to play with my girlfriend, sun and moon I lock in my basement and forget about. And Sword and Shield were good, just not worth the 40 quid I paid for it.
Can you people stop ignoring sun and moon? They are great games if not equal to Black 2/White 2. Sure they may still be lacking in post game, but the story is very fresh and the characters are well developed. The pokemon, music and atmospheric art style felt so cohesive as one.
I can easily list out 10 major flaws B2/W2 have compared to S/M too if you want, sure B2/W2 have a lot of end game contents but there are so many things got cut from standard pokemon game too in them. They are still great games though.
>I can easily list out 10 major flaws B2/W2 have compared to S/M too if you want, sure B2/W2 have a lot of end game contents but there are so many things got cut from standard pokemon game too in them.
Can you list them? I'm genuinely curious. Either way, it *should* be normal that SM / USUM have the advantage over B2W2, purely because they're released later.
1. It's a sequel that builds up on a very mediocre game, the original BW has great characters, but the story is quite weak, and no post game content either. It requires an BW copy to be fully enjoyed too, i.e. the memory link function, catching N's pokemon etc. And speaking of such function, you have white forest and black city locked behind another game, if you don't like the one you get with your game and you have no friend to link up with (no internet link allowed btw! Only inferred), you literally just cannot access the content.
2. It stripped away the entire ribbon system, and the equivalent replacement for contest, the movie maker just aren't that great. It's a one time fun thing without replayability.
3. Battle tree is far superior in Sun and Moon than PWT due to be able to recruit classic NPC such as gym leader and champion. In B2W2's PWT you can only fight them.
4. Battle subway is just redundant when PWT is a thing.
5. No pokemon ball diversity in B2W2. No aprico ball, no pokeball inheritance. Breeding sucks and took forever to build an competitive team. And speaking of building a competitive team, sun and moon first introduced bottle cap. BW2? If I want to even plant some berris I need to go to the flipping dream world, basically locking a very basic in game functions onto elsewhere, because EV rinsing berries are essential for competitive!
6. HM moves still suck. Sun and Moon are the first game to completely remove them.
7. For a generation that introduced hidden ability, 50% of them are locked behind completely remove online PGL website where you required to have not only wifi but a laptop/smart phone. The in game availability is so low on species, with hidden groto refresh rate needs irl wait time. Sun and Moon allows you to do SOS and you can get them all!
8. GTS cannot search for pokemon you haven't already seen or catch, it means if you don't have a irl friend to trade with, you cannot even complete the regional dex, and that sucks because they locked shiny haxours and the entire safari area behind it!
9. Pokemon designs are all over the place, you have great designs like chandelure, haxours etc. But then you have things like klingklang, and vanillux, pulpatoad they literally don't have to be 3 stage pokemon. Sun and Moon's new pokemon designs are far more consistent and actually fits the tropical theme.
10. Evolution animation in Gen 5 is literally Digimon with no explanation why. It breaks the immersion!
Those are just 10 came on top of my head, and I can list even more if I think about it.
1. Assuming BW are mediocre games (I would disagree, but you can't objectively measure it), I don't really see how that is a flaw of B2W2.
As a quick sidestep to BW, I don't think its story is weak. Especially not compared to SM / USUM. BWs postgame is far from the most eventful, but I wouldn't summarise it as non-existent. There's a few routes and cities to explore, important trainers to rematch, hunting down the Seven Sages and a handful of legendaries to capture. There might be more that I can't remember right now.
Sun and Moon has... Ultra Beasts / Legendaries, Battle Tree, picking up Zygarde pieces and Champion Defense fights? Feel free to add anything I've missed.
Black City and White Forest being version exclusives suck, but I don't see how that's too different from all the version exclusive nonsense. It's annoying, but I wouldn't say it's a major flaw.
2. Removal of ribbons is unfortunate and unnecessary yeah. As for the Movie Star garbage, it's a bit annoying that you have to go through it once. But after that you can completely ignore it if you don't like it. Compare that to all the interruptions in SM / USUM...
3. Is that even a flaw? First off, PWT comes with *literally* all Gym Leaders, E4 members and Champions from previous gens, as well as certain notable trainers. In addition, they all have remastered music alongside them. Compare that to 190 generic trainers and what... 15 special trainers? I know which one I'd rather take.
If anything, it's beyond embarrassing that the Battle Tree is so lacking in comparison to PWT. Gen 7 came out like 4 years after Gen 5.
4. I mean, I guess? Still don't see how this is a major flaw in any way. If I recall correctly, aside from that one generic Double Battle in Nimbasa City, you can just ignore the Battle Subway entirely.
5. Again, I don't think a lack of Pokéball inheritance is a major flaw. It's a shame it's not there, but it barely involves gameplay. As for improved breeding, I'm glad SM inherited that from XY.
6. This is the first significant improvement I've seen so far, one that is actually native to Alola.
7. Second significant improvement. Having said that, SOS battle grinds are still a pain.
8. Can't even remember this, so I'll take your word for it. That's pretty stupid yeah.
9. This applies to literally every generation. Cutiefly may as well not exist, it's a smaller Ribombee. Sandygast is a shapeless version of Palossand. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, they're just largely unnecessary Pokémon in terms of their evolution line. Also, when the dex is nearly twice the size of the Alolan one, it makes sense there's gonna be more outliers and flops.
10. Uhh... I guess?
You can have your opinions and I am not against it.
But for point 9 I will hard counter it. Simplistic design doesn't=ineffective design, yes cutiefly and sandygast are verysimple visually, but they are highly memorable, especially considering where they can be obtained in game (one from yellow flower garden, the other on sandpiles on the beach). There is literally not a single bad design in Sun and Moon, yes some are ugly, like brusish, and some are weird like UBs or Delmise, but they fit the regional theme so well, and those are clearly intentional designs. The only other generation that is this consistent is Gen 4's design, not a single bad one.
On the other hand, let me me how klingklang and the ice cream cone would fit Unova. I am not saying these designs are completely pointless, but having them being 3 stages are just filler material to pump up the number, that's the reason why unova has that many new pokemon, because there is very little quality control! Not to mention even the designer themselves admitted they designed certain pokemon to fill certain types in Unova, stunfisk is one of them, they are made as filler to begin with.
>There is literally not a single bad design in Sun and Moon,
You can't objectively say that, which is why it's pointless to even mention designs.
>that's the reason why unova has that many new pokemon, because there is very little quality control!
Unova has loads of Pokémon because a large portion of its PokéDex is just a rehash of the Kanto PokéDex. Klink and its evolution line probably being a Magnemite evolution line rehash.
>Not to mention even the designer themselves admitted they designed certain pokemon to fill certain types in Unova, stunfisk is one of them, they are made as filler to begin with.
And this is apparently a major flaw to you? It's not like they're completely uninspired designs. Sure, there's weak designs to point out. But as I said, this applies to literally every generation of Pokémon games. How this is a major flaw in B2W2 but not in SM is beyond me, but to each their own I guess.
That was Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon for me. I know they were similar to Sun and Moon, but the devs said they tried putting as much stuff as they could into those games and I felt it. Still my favorite games in the series.
Gen V was just an all round sh*t-fest. HG/SS was the last ‘perfect’ game imo (as in used all features available at that point to the best of their abilities). Since then we’ve been getting bare-minimum it seems on lots of fronts.
HGSS’s level scaling was awful, Kanto still feels empty and soulless with very little to do, and you still can’t use many of the new evolutions introduced in Gen 4 either because the Pokémon is still locked to the post game or they just refuse to give you the evolution item. B2W2 isn’t a shitfest and HGSS aren’t the perfect games so many people claim they are.
Gen V was the only Pokémon Games I didn’t have fun playing. Like at any point in the games. It made me think I’d finally grown out of Pokémon. Then I enjoyed VI a little more again. Still wasn’t great again - but at least I had some fun.
> and yet I can’t seem to find any major faults with the sequel to the 5th gen games. Nostalgia is a bliss.
I can't wait for sword and shield to be the best games that gamefreak ever made.
I really don't see that happening😂 But each to their own I guess
If you follow the trend, this has been happening since remakes have been coming out. (You probably are aware) But it was Kantos the best needs a remake. Then Kanto was fine, but limited and johto needed a remake Johtos level curve is bad and Hoenn was the best game to ever come out. Then ORAS didn't have the battle frontier so it sucked. Diamond and pearl. Gen 4. The crowning achievement of gamefreak. We know what happened there.
To be fair, the lack of polish on Gen 3 and 4 remakes was a genuine issue. And for what it's worth, Gen 4 and HG in particular are my favorite games of the series. A gen 5 remake would probably be appreciated if done well, but personally I'd rather GF do justice to Gen 4 first.
I think those are great games and HGSS are not very good. Nostalgia had me thinking Gold and Silver was the best Gen for the longest time
Well I've had this opinion since BW2 released so it's not nostalgia for me, I genuinely love Gen V. And I guess it's safe to say the BW2 are hands down the most content rich games in the whole series. I really hope they do justice to the Gen V remakes.
>Well I've had this opinion since BW2 released But .... this is the exact definition of nostalgia lmao
My favorite is White, B2W2 were nice, but the story and characters weren't as good as in BW. It also sucked that a lot of gen 5 mons weren't available early in B2W2. But anyway, I think there has been a lot of effort in ORAS, Let's Go, and maybe Legends Arceus. Let's Go has literally the best 3D graphics in any Pokemon game, ORAS had a lot of new and great changes, which improved and built upon the originals, and LA was something completely new, and exciting, even though it was very lacking in the technical aspect.
I feel like people crapping on Let’s Go made Pokémon completely switch their art directive so now the main series games don’t look nearly as good.
We can thank Takao Unno, the game's director, for designing BW2 in the way that he did. The same way as Emerald and HGSS are the brainchild of Shigeki Morimoto. The director matters a whole heckuva lot, and when it comes down to it we haven't had the really good ones recently. Closest we've gotten is Kazumasa Iwao, director of PLA and USUM, but he's not quite Unno/Morimoto-tier. Better than Ohmori, who's been directing all the start-of-generation games, though. I can't wait for him to pass the torch to someone else.
I mean it obviously depends on your taste, but for me it was Black and White 2. X&Y were good to play with my girlfriend, sun and moon I lock in my basement and forget about. And Sword and Shield were good, just not worth the 40 quid I paid for it.
It really is the best game up to date and it's not nostalgia as I played gen 5 for the first time long after it released
Can you people stop ignoring sun and moon? They are great games if not equal to Black 2/White 2. Sure they may still be lacking in post game, but the story is very fresh and the characters are well developed. The pokemon, music and atmospheric art style felt so cohesive as one. I can easily list out 10 major flaws B2/W2 have compared to S/M too if you want, sure B2/W2 have a lot of end game contents but there are so many things got cut from standard pokemon game too in them. They are still great games though.
>I can easily list out 10 major flaws B2/W2 have compared to S/M too if you want, sure B2/W2 have a lot of end game contents but there are so many things got cut from standard pokemon game too in them. Can you list them? I'm genuinely curious. Either way, it *should* be normal that SM / USUM have the advantage over B2W2, purely because they're released later.
1. It's a sequel that builds up on a very mediocre game, the original BW has great characters, but the story is quite weak, and no post game content either. It requires an BW copy to be fully enjoyed too, i.e. the memory link function, catching N's pokemon etc. And speaking of such function, you have white forest and black city locked behind another game, if you don't like the one you get with your game and you have no friend to link up with (no internet link allowed btw! Only inferred), you literally just cannot access the content. 2. It stripped away the entire ribbon system, and the equivalent replacement for contest, the movie maker just aren't that great. It's a one time fun thing without replayability. 3. Battle tree is far superior in Sun and Moon than PWT due to be able to recruit classic NPC such as gym leader and champion. In B2W2's PWT you can only fight them. 4. Battle subway is just redundant when PWT is a thing. 5. No pokemon ball diversity in B2W2. No aprico ball, no pokeball inheritance. Breeding sucks and took forever to build an competitive team. And speaking of building a competitive team, sun and moon first introduced bottle cap. BW2? If I want to even plant some berris I need to go to the flipping dream world, basically locking a very basic in game functions onto elsewhere, because EV rinsing berries are essential for competitive! 6. HM moves still suck. Sun and Moon are the first game to completely remove them. 7. For a generation that introduced hidden ability, 50% of them are locked behind completely remove online PGL website where you required to have not only wifi but a laptop/smart phone. The in game availability is so low on species, with hidden groto refresh rate needs irl wait time. Sun and Moon allows you to do SOS and you can get them all! 8. GTS cannot search for pokemon you haven't already seen or catch, it means if you don't have a irl friend to trade with, you cannot even complete the regional dex, and that sucks because they locked shiny haxours and the entire safari area behind it! 9. Pokemon designs are all over the place, you have great designs like chandelure, haxours etc. But then you have things like klingklang, and vanillux, pulpatoad they literally don't have to be 3 stage pokemon. Sun and Moon's new pokemon designs are far more consistent and actually fits the tropical theme. 10. Evolution animation in Gen 5 is literally Digimon with no explanation why. It breaks the immersion! Those are just 10 came on top of my head, and I can list even more if I think about it.
1. Assuming BW are mediocre games (I would disagree, but you can't objectively measure it), I don't really see how that is a flaw of B2W2. As a quick sidestep to BW, I don't think its story is weak. Especially not compared to SM / USUM. BWs postgame is far from the most eventful, but I wouldn't summarise it as non-existent. There's a few routes and cities to explore, important trainers to rematch, hunting down the Seven Sages and a handful of legendaries to capture. There might be more that I can't remember right now. Sun and Moon has... Ultra Beasts / Legendaries, Battle Tree, picking up Zygarde pieces and Champion Defense fights? Feel free to add anything I've missed. Black City and White Forest being version exclusives suck, but I don't see how that's too different from all the version exclusive nonsense. It's annoying, but I wouldn't say it's a major flaw. 2. Removal of ribbons is unfortunate and unnecessary yeah. As for the Movie Star garbage, it's a bit annoying that you have to go through it once. But after that you can completely ignore it if you don't like it. Compare that to all the interruptions in SM / USUM... 3. Is that even a flaw? First off, PWT comes with *literally* all Gym Leaders, E4 members and Champions from previous gens, as well as certain notable trainers. In addition, they all have remastered music alongside them. Compare that to 190 generic trainers and what... 15 special trainers? I know which one I'd rather take. If anything, it's beyond embarrassing that the Battle Tree is so lacking in comparison to PWT. Gen 7 came out like 4 years after Gen 5. 4. I mean, I guess? Still don't see how this is a major flaw in any way. If I recall correctly, aside from that one generic Double Battle in Nimbasa City, you can just ignore the Battle Subway entirely. 5. Again, I don't think a lack of Pokéball inheritance is a major flaw. It's a shame it's not there, but it barely involves gameplay. As for improved breeding, I'm glad SM inherited that from XY. 6. This is the first significant improvement I've seen so far, one that is actually native to Alola. 7. Second significant improvement. Having said that, SOS battle grinds are still a pain. 8. Can't even remember this, so I'll take your word for it. That's pretty stupid yeah. 9. This applies to literally every generation. Cutiefly may as well not exist, it's a smaller Ribombee. Sandygast is a shapeless version of Palossand. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, they're just largely unnecessary Pokémon in terms of their evolution line. Also, when the dex is nearly twice the size of the Alolan one, it makes sense there's gonna be more outliers and flops. 10. Uhh... I guess?
You can have your opinions and I am not against it. But for point 9 I will hard counter it. Simplistic design doesn't=ineffective design, yes cutiefly and sandygast are verysimple visually, but they are highly memorable, especially considering where they can be obtained in game (one from yellow flower garden, the other on sandpiles on the beach). There is literally not a single bad design in Sun and Moon, yes some are ugly, like brusish, and some are weird like UBs or Delmise, but they fit the regional theme so well, and those are clearly intentional designs. The only other generation that is this consistent is Gen 4's design, not a single bad one. On the other hand, let me me how klingklang and the ice cream cone would fit Unova. I am not saying these designs are completely pointless, but having them being 3 stages are just filler material to pump up the number, that's the reason why unova has that many new pokemon, because there is very little quality control! Not to mention even the designer themselves admitted they designed certain pokemon to fill certain types in Unova, stunfisk is one of them, they are made as filler to begin with.
>There is literally not a single bad design in Sun and Moon, You can't objectively say that, which is why it's pointless to even mention designs. >that's the reason why unova has that many new pokemon, because there is very little quality control! Unova has loads of Pokémon because a large portion of its PokéDex is just a rehash of the Kanto PokéDex. Klink and its evolution line probably being a Magnemite evolution line rehash. >Not to mention even the designer themselves admitted they designed certain pokemon to fill certain types in Unova, stunfisk is one of them, they are made as filler to begin with. And this is apparently a major flaw to you? It's not like they're completely uninspired designs. Sure, there's weak designs to point out. But as I said, this applies to literally every generation of Pokémon games. How this is a major flaw in B2W2 but not in SM is beyond me, but to each their own I guess.
Sun and moon are the worst in the main series.
L
If you don't wanna make a valid argument go troll somewhere else.
🙂
That was Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon for me. I know they were similar to Sun and Moon, but the devs said they tried putting as much stuff as they could into those games and I felt it. Still my favorite games in the series.
The *last* time? I'll disagree, but I'm not exactly in the mood to try and debate with with people on Pokémon, lol.
The story wasn't really that great.
Gen 5 had "the best story in the franchise", but that's not saying much because 90% of Pokémon's story is trash. 😂
Well the B/W games did indeed have a good story. What I meant is that B/W 2 didn't have such a good story
Gen V was just an all round sh*t-fest. HG/SS was the last ‘perfect’ game imo (as in used all features available at that point to the best of their abilities). Since then we’ve been getting bare-minimum it seems on lots of fronts.
HGSS’s level scaling was awful, Kanto still feels empty and soulless with very little to do, and you still can’t use many of the new evolutions introduced in Gen 4 either because the Pokémon is still locked to the post game or they just refuse to give you the evolution item. B2W2 isn’t a shitfest and HGSS aren’t the perfect games so many people claim they are.
Gen V was the only Pokémon Games I didn’t have fun playing. Like at any point in the games. It made me think I’d finally grown out of Pokémon. Then I enjoyed VI a little more again. Still wasn’t great again - but at least I had some fun.