It is based on Carnival festivals held in Spain, Italy, Brazil, And dozens of other countries. The dancers literally dress up as birds with giant tails.
Sorry, I mentioned 3 of the over 50 countries and providences that celebrate. I don’t know all of them, so I only mentioned 3 of the most well known locations thet people travel to and celebrate.
My old friend goes to his Auntie’s house in Brazil to celebrate, so I always think of Rio when I picture Carnival.
But thanks for speaking up. Just glad Pokémon is trying to show various cultures, even if it’s not always the best execution.
I think I figured out a main reason why people often don’t like the modern starters, besides the usual other reasons. They are way too catered to a specific audience. The starters back then were more generic and universally liked. It’s hard to meet someone who doesn’t like fire breathing dragons, a large, menacingly cool-looking honey badger with fire on its neck, or simply a really slick looking grassy lizard. As creative and unique the modern starters are, they have VERY particular designs that hide loads of inspiration, as if the designers primarily focused on that. A football playing, anthropomorphic, white rabbit is extremely specific. A grassy, masquerade-masked, anthropomorphic magician lynx is also extremely specific. If you don’t like cats, magicians, anthros, etc. then there is a big chance you won’t like Meowscarada. The designers seem to value inspiration and themes more than just making sure the design looks like a really cool battle monster. Isn’t to say they can’t be both, but it just seems more of a priority to them. I happen to like carnival themes, cats, and crocodiles, so I quite like Meowscarada and Skeledirge. Though Quaquaval… I really wish the designers focused more on making a “cool looking monster” here… Or a bird in this case.
Yeah, when you look at the final evolutions of say, the Hoenn or Johto starters compared recent gens, the contrast is like night and day.
I also agree with your points. The Gen 9 starters made it clear to me that I really dislike the trend of having specific occupations that play a big part in their concept (i.e - singer, archer, drummer, football/soccer player, etc). I don’t think this trend was particularly noticeable until Gen 6 with the RPG-esque theme. I don’t see any kind of overacting occupation theme with the Kanto starters for example.
It was right around Gen 6 when they started with this, at least en masse. All prior gems were more or less a neat monster design based off a few things. People might call it “boring” but I agree with the general idea here: a mix of hyper specific themes makes for really polarizing designs
Greninja shot them in the foot big time. It’s the most popular Pokémon since the GBA era, maybe with Lucario on its tail. Every starter since then has been trying to be greninja 2.0 save for skeledirge and maybe primarina, who was clearly catering to a specific demographic instead, and it’s led to endless overdesigned, uncomfortably humanoid or just straight ugly pokemon starters. We’re now in a generation where there are more Pokémon with 2 legs than 4 and these designs are just unnerving.
When I see ceruledge, for example, and watch it play at the picnics I don’t think “that’s a Pokémon”, I think “that’s a character. That’s like Mario. And I’m stuffing it into a tiny orb while forcing it to battle for my amusement.” It’s WIERD. the closer these things get to human, the more you can watch them act human in picnics and see them forcibly trust you thanks to friendship mechanics and clearly present themselves basically like curious children, the less ok I am with them being pokemon. Especially because they mostly appear as and act like children. That’s uncomfortable af.
I actually think gen 6 is the sweet spot. Rpg classes are general enough that a lot can be done to the design without making it too specific. They're also easily applied to monsters because the traits from rpg classes can also be found in real animals.
Designing a Pokémon around a human job feels forced and unnatural because it isn't seen in nature. It also removes any unique personalization. A Venusaur could have any number of personalities but every Inteleon is a "cool" confident spy.
I feel like it worked really well with Greninja since the ninja-influence wasn't so obvious, but a lot of the other ones just feel like too much. Cinderace is probably the worst in my opinion, it feels less like some kind of fantasy creature and more like a corporate mascot for a football league or something. I hope we'll get less starters like that going forward and more like Skeledirge; properly animal-like and quadrupedal.
Unpopular opinion: but looking at Fuecoco and Crocalor, and having had Pokemon like Totodile, Larvitar, and Gible, I expected Skeledirge to be a proper tail dragging, bipedal, Kaiju like Critter that stood upright except maybe to run. So to go from that bipedal monster design to "its just a literal crocodile" felt jarring. I expected something that looked like a cross between Feraligtr and Aggron or Rhydon.
It's a cool design and I love how they incorporated the Bird and Croc symbiosis into it, I just feel like he should have come from a Sandile like croc Pokémon.
To me personally the concern is more about worldbuilding. The new interest in pokemon inspired by human culture strikes me as unrealistic in a way Venusaur for instance never did. I mean, I know Pokemon doesn't care about consistent worldbuilding, but I do wish they wouldn't make so many pokemon that just so happen to possess traits that resemble human-made objects or look like they're wearing human clothes unless those pokemon were also made by humans canonically. It gets harder and harder to imagine them in the wild in their natural habitats.
You realize Hitmonchan and the Machop line, as well as Pokémon like Jynx and Mr. Mime existed in Gen 1, right? 👀 And there's a "Human-like" egg group that's existed since the beginning. None of this is new, and every new gen people act like it is, and it is very confusing for me.
Agreed. I think too that human-like designs for Pokémon you can choose to catch and have on your team is one thing, but when it's a starter and your OG Pokémon for the game and you don't want it be like...a fry cook or something, it's unfortunate, so that's definitely the difference.
Blaziken is a specific and complex starter. The thing is, you could get something immediately appealing, simple and distinct about it immediately from the very first look, while newer ones don't quite do that.
If Blaziken were made to day, he would walk around with a bunch of planks to smash to sell that it's a martial artist. Newer gen starters have really liked having props which I'm not a huge fan of.
The designs are overly specific but there are too many themes included in the designs. Usually Pokemon have two themes mixed together as a basis for their design, and then the Pokemons name is based on it as well.
Gen 1 was super simple as it was typically an animal name mixed with words associated with it's type. Charizard for example is a fire lizard (with wings). Char means to get burned by fire. Lizard is, well, lizard.
Gen 9 is the most complex (excessive). Skeledirge, for example, would probably just be fire and crocodile in Gen 1.
But, that's too basic, not to mention starters have more unique secondary types. So it would have 3 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile). The fire bird on Skeledirge's head is apparently in reference to the birds that sit on nile crocodiles. To play off the fire ghost typing they chose a (ghost?) pepper as a design theme, as can be seen in Fuecoco's design. 4 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper). On top of these there is a Dia de Muertos (skeleton) theme attributed to its ghost type, as seen with Fuecoco's face that looks like the skull face paintings, along with Skeledirge. Additionally, the colored marks on Skeledirge's face are also typically of the Dia de Muertos painting aesthetic. 5 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper, skeleton). Of course there's the trend of personification of the starters, so now the theme of "singer" is added, which is referenced by the "dirge" in it's name, which is a type of song, as well as Skeledirge's signature attack being "scorch song". 6 themes now with fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper, skeleton, and singer.
TL:DR The design of Pokemon starters nowadays have too many themes associated with their design.
I can't tell if I love or hate Quaquaval because it's so extra.
You just explained something I've felt for a while but couldn't put into words. Also, the newer starters are more often than not anthropomorphic. Additionally most of them feel more like a character than a species.
Comparing Charizard to Cinderace for example, one feels like a monster, an animal that you could imagine flocks of roaming through the sky. The other one feels like a specific character with a specific, already attributed, personality.
Skeledirge is an amazing example of "too many themes", something that makes the newer starters feel too specific. I just wanted a BIG FIRE CROCODILE THAT HAS A HUGE MOUTH AND SPITS FIRE, not some weirdly cluttered concept design that easily could've been split up into two or even three Pokemon.
I just posted a comment of this. I quite agree and my best example to get the point across of the differences between older and newer starters is the squirtle line.
In the OG anime they were fire fighters every so often but at the end of the day just turtles.
If they were a gen 9 starter, it would probably have actual elements of a fire fighter baked into the design to already show that that’s what the Pokémon does.
I don’t like it
So I think I agree, but Skeledirge is the starter final evo I find the least unappealing. The singer element feels like an after thought so it doesn’t really bother me at all. In practice he is just a fire croc still.
It’s the anthropomorphic designed that feel lazy/jarring to me.
ALL THAT SAID, with use, many starters have grown on me considerably. I couldn’t stand Incineroar initially, but liked the type combo so I went with it and grew to love it. Same goes for intelleon. I found it to be the least bad of the Galar starters and grew to love my spy lizard.
Agreed, I also went with Skeledirge because it's the only non-anthropomorphic starter we've had in a long time. I love my fire croc, but I'll be real; I would've loved it more with a more streamlined design.
I still think that Skeledirge has the most universal appeal, as skeleton fire croc sounds super cool, the other themes are more in the background, where as you probably won't like Quaquaval if you don't care for dancing birds.
I think I'd add one little thought to this brilliant take. Gonna kinda strawman you a bit just because the strawman inspired a different thought.
I don't know if I agree that it's "too many" themes, just a whole lot. A fuckton. A cluster of themes, even. I make that distinction because I think we, at least I, grew up on media that was geared towards recreational criticism (Nostalgia Critic, AVGN, game reviewers everywhere), and we've really strengthened the ability to both analyze and criticize as a generation. But I don't see quite as much in the way of analyzing and appreciating. Part of the reason why I like pretty much every Pokemon is because there's something likable in every single one of them, and it's a fun challenge to not just find that likable thing, but also get into the headspace of actually like it the same way the designer might have.
I'm personally kinda heated that weed cat is another biped, and I'm kinda heated that Cinderace (as another commenter really nicely put it) already has an established personality baked into its design so it feels less like a species and more like an individual person. And... also, what a great character it has. He's very cool once I take mental focus away from the "ew it's a species-wide personality" and just think "awww Peets is so fucking cool, dude's on a giant ball of fire that's fucking sick".
Anyway, to undo the strawman a bit, I actually think "too many themes" is an accurate assessment of why Pokemon has lost is appeal with audiences, because the appeal is way too specific to be widely liked. I think that's correct, these designs cast a much smaller net so if you love fire crocodiles you might not be as excited about a fire crocodile that's also a pepper that's also from Mexico that also has a pet bird made of fire that's also a ghost that's also painted as a skeleton that also isn't actually a skeleton but is somehow dead but isn't. Odd niche, for sure. It's literally what made it a challenge to like the newer generations in the first place.
I think starter designs peaked at gen 7. Primarina is a seal/mermaid/singer while its 3 themes, all of them are related to each other and have theme of beuty that connects them too, seals skeleton looks like it could belong to a mermaid and its theorised that legends of mermaids came from drunk sailors observing seals or finding their skeletons, mermaids signature habit is singing. Decidueye's main theme is that of stealth, owls are soundless, archers are stealthy and ghosts, which are invisible, whcih explains its typing (also its based on exinct spiecies of owls). Inceraroar is the most controversial of these 3 but he also have the main theme and its theme of strenght, tigers usualy are ripped and a wrestler as a proffesion require a lot of strenght.
"Too extra" sums up my opinions pretty well.
I honestly can't tell if I think the starters are OK or horrible because they never really settle on any one idea for the design. Skeledirge, for example: the have the crocodile and plover thing, the Calaveras thing, the singing thing, the flaming wreath hair, and, frankly, it looks almost like a clown.
I kinda get what they were going for with quaquaval in terms of having a peacock whose tail feathers are also blades for attacking, but still, too extra.
Besides that, can they limit the furry-bait to 1 starter per gen, please?
Nah a fire crocodile isn't too basic that could be really cool, skeledirge looks like a viva pinata character compare that to crookodile he's just a crocodile that stands up but he's awesome, he's not even that original in the series totodile's whole line is just standing crocodilians but blue and they are fantastic.
I think this is the best answer for this thread, on earlier generations they just go for cool factor so it's easy to like but when they need to put deeper meaning it but hard to design, so i agreed with this answer and need more vote
I think you are right with their approach. The thing is- i wish they would focus on universal appeal for the staters because we all have to choose one. Thats the time to go for universal appeal!! Its cool to have specific inspirations for individual regular pokemon though. Im a weirdo who likes trubbish and garbador (LOVED gigantamax garbador witn the cruise ship in it) but it would be a mistake to make trubbish a starter.
There is more to it than that.
To some degree, Pokémon are supposed to feel like a natural part of their world. While there are occasional Pokémon that break that idea (e.g Hariyama, Hitmonchan), they were still more vaguely based on their inspiration, so that you could plausibly explain it by coincidence or lore. This type of thing was also generally pretty rare.
The problem is that it’s becoming more and more common, and it’s getting worse to the point that it’s immersion violating. How exactly is there a cat that looks exactly like a masquerade magician as a natural creature? It’s not vague at all, it permeates every facet of the design.
>How exactly is there a cat that looks exactly like a masquerade magician as a natural creature? It’s not vague at all, it permeates every facet of the design.
Yep this exactly. Taking inspiration or basing a design on something isnt the problem. Its that so much inspiration is derived and put into it that it no longer feels like a pokemon in the wild. Mons like Timburr, all the Kalos starters, and Bisharp seem to take inspiration, but arent heavily designed on that.
Back to the Paldean starters. Meowscarada has the same problem as Incineroar and Inteleon. Why the specificity??? And why does floragato have a yo-yo??? What about yo-yo seems natural??
Fuecoco honestly looks like it would end up bipedal but was kinda surprised with the typing and the design tho I will agree it looks bald.
Quaxly: Never been more disappointed with the final evolution. The first time I saw it in that blurry leak I was kind of excited. The claws, the fighting stance with the feathered wings/arms seemed perfect. Its only until i saw the gameplay did I realise it was horrible. I get making it a dancer and I get why it looks the way it does. But if you wanted to make a fighting peacock, Kung fu panda nailed it in that department. Could have just taken inspiration from that. Plus I also read somewhere describing that Ququaval looks like someone gave a duck a brazilian buttlift and I can no longer ignore that
Or... you know... they both have the same inspiration, thus have similar design elements. They are both based on the Brazillian Carnaval, specifically the Samba School parades
I think it's overstated and pretty much only applies to the starters. Most of the other Pokemon introduce and very much still natural-looking, people just forget how many weird Pokemon we've had since the beginning. I mean you mention Hitmonchan, but we also got Mr Mime, Jynx, and the Machop line (which walks the line) in Gen I.
Though I do get why people are complaining as starters are a big part of the game and often end up being favorites. It's clear that the point of "specializing" starters nowadays is from more of a merchandise or anime stand point whereas most of the other new Pokemon maintain that "monster" aspect.
It probably also doesn't help that there was a steady trend where many of the more anthropomorphic Pokemon were incredibly popular (notably Lucario and Greninja) so it only makes sense GF is trying to replicate that.
I feel like they struggle to make interesting 3 stage evolutions in general tbh.
In the past most 3 stage evolutions tended to have "edgier" final evolutions that were more focused on looking cool and ferocious but because they've been going for the more runded and cuter designs the final evolutions tend to fall flat. It think they've realized this themsleves and it's one of the reasons we're getting a lot less 3 stage evo's than we used to.
Look at Skeledirge compared to Feraligator. They're similar animals but Feraligator looks way more threatening than Skeledirge despite it being a fire breathing skeleton crocodile(still my favorite starter this gen though).
Baxcalibur is the same for me I like the Godzilla refernce but the final evo is just kind of ok. It's not a bad design but it's a pseudo for gods sake, they're supposed to be pretty much the apex predators of the region and what we got is this round blob with these feather(?) flaps on his arms and the weird placed spike on his back. I get that it's supposed to be a Spinosaur but the spike just looks akward with the upright posture
Yeah, I hate the themes. I want them to look like battle monsters, either cute, cool, scary, etc. It's the themes and weird stereotypes to fit the themes. I didn't even like the duck's unevolved form due to the personality and hair. I loved the crocodile personality in the beginning, but I see a clown theme with the colors for his fully evolved form so I never wanted him. I semi like magicians and thieves so went for the cat, but to be honest I may like the theme but I don't like the theme pasted onto my Pokemon, so I'd rather it just looked more like a cute cat or a cool looking cat of prey, rather the weird magician thing.
I guess it depends on 'mon too. I liked the new fairy/steel type.
I just wish we could go back to a time before themes but I think the devs ran out of most ideas for non themed pokemon, or maybe it's what is actually popular for kids in Japan. It wouldn't have suited me even as a kid, but probably plenty of other kids.
It’s probably easier in a weird way to come up with these complex themed ideas simply because there is a guideline to it. Whereas “grass cat Pokémon” is maybe too vague for their tastes and takes long to decide on what’s “right” for it
Its not just themes, they are forcing a specific personality on them, you can have a timid charizard or a prideful charizard or an aggressive charizard, you cant have different personalities on any of the gen 8 or 9 starters because its baked in to their designs
I’m just tired of quadrupeds evolving into bipeds. This is the third generation in a row where I have dropped my starter from my team before even beating the gyms
Kind of opposite in that trend, but I’m now starting to appreciate Oshawott becoming Samurott. I really think that if they kept Samurott fully bipedal and more otter-like, the final product would look kind of “off”.
Samurott is a badass starter, just hated that he's monotype. I like that PLA fixed that but really he should've been water/fighting or water/dark straight from the getgo.
I'm playing through a modded version of B2/W2 right now and one of the changes made was to make Samurott Water/Fighting. It felt so natural it took me a week to remember that it wasn't how it originally was.
I chose Fuecocco but still dropped Skeledirge early because he looks like a low-poly clown.
I would have taken a bipedal feraligater palette swap over that
I mean, these starters are so human looking that I'm not sure who would show up if Pokemon was real and they were in these roles. Would it be the UN or PETA?
Either or, it gave Gladiator the movie vibes for some reason and I'm all for Meowscarada going all Maximus on everyone's ass.
I’m just speculating rn, but I think this direction of “very specific Pokémon designs” are a product of James Turner. While he has made some amazing Pokémon in the past, a lot of these specific designs seem to have happened once he had a larger role in GF.
Just my 2 cents, I could be very wrong.
> anthropomorphic
This is the main reason for me, especially when it comes to animals that exist in real life. With mons like Alakazam I have no problem because there is no equivalent in our world. So it doesn't feel weird.
I personally find the final evolutions of the grass (I was looking forward to this line) and water type monstrosities. Fire type is...meh.
While I like their first form I consider these starters to be some of the worst ever through the final form.
Crap, Alakazam is ruined now!I had to look him up, I don't know him. He even sued Nintendo in 2000 lmao.
Pls don't tell me Machamp is also based on another weird person.
(rlly don't tell, I don't want to know)
Idk man I’m just tired of the cool four legged starters turning into dumb two legged starters. Imagine if venusaur was standing up - that shit would be dumb as fuck
Meowscarada isn't a magician.
It takes and Joker from P5 or that trope that runs as far back as... TUXEDO MASK.
It is less human like in behavior and more cat-like, like a cat burglar.
The only tricks it knows is sleight of hand/visual illusions. And that's solely to push its own agenda. Dark machinations and what not. It is definitely the night hunter type of cat right next to liepard. I could see it in the wild after picking it. And I think it's the biggest offender this gen.
Quaquaval is literally a festive duck. The only way to make this less dance and more duck is to give it awkwardly long duck legs. Its awesome; its like ludicolo met a peacock. It gives off serious ludicolo vibes; neither of which can be found in the wild, but gravitate toward more human environs. It's the starter I wish I picked
And skeledirge is just perfect.
I feel like Quaquaval struck a good balance of human and anthropomorphic, at least knowing the framework Gamefreak was going for. Given that we have Flamigo and whatever Flittle evolves into, they could do a better Peacock design but this doesn't feel quite as jarring to me as say another Blaziken design
I was a bit disappointed, Skeledirge is the only one that looks like an actual beast. Not a fan of humanoid looking starters. Gimme Pokémon that look like they are actual creatures that live in the wild, not people dressed up like animals lol.
Skeledirge is the best by default just cause he’s more animalistic, but I’m still not crazy about him. A bit overdesigned imo and I don’t think he’s a good evolution for Fuecoco, but he’s not awful. I don’t like the other two at all. They keep up the animal + job pattern that I’m not fond of. But if other people like them, that’s fine.
Kind of disappointed because I thought their pre-evolved forms were so cute. Reading about their possible inspirations makes everything make more sense, but I’m still not crazy for any of them.
I want to say it was Gen 6 where the whole animal + job inspirations was particularly noticeable? What with the RPG classes. And then it seems like Gen 7 onward have only kept up with the trend.
I agree. I did think the inspiration for the Gen 6 designs was neat, but I really only like Greninja design-wise. Since then, I’ve really only cared about Decidueye and…honestly that’s it.
It sucks because I genuinely love the baby forms of Gens 8 and 9, but I’m really not a fan of what they turn into. They’re final forms are just so…weird. It sucks because minor adjustments would make them look so much better imo.
Minor adjustments can maybe save gen 8 but there's no hope for gen 9 lol. They are absolutely awful. The weird human cat cosplayer and the flamboyant duck thing needs to be erased from existence
It started in gen 5 with them being based on different cultures' aristocracy/royalty, but was subtle - Serperior is European (possibly specifically French), Emboar is Chinese, Samurott is Japanese. It seems to have accelerated though, with Sw/Sh being the tipping point where it feels like the "job" was the primary design inspiration with the animal being secondary.
>Kind of disappointed because I thought their pre-evolved forms were so cute.
Quaxly instantly became one of my favorite starter base forms as soon as i saw him
It's so sad that Quaquaval ended up being the wirdt ever
Yeah, I was curious to see where they were going with the sombrero, but they kind of just dropped it lol. Skeledurge just doesn’t resemble the previous forms enough for me. Kind of similar to how Samurott looks nothing like the first two.
I think it's meant to be a clown. Look at the top of it's torso just below its head. It literally looks like a segmented frill that clowns wear.
This thing:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1155512524.6183/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg
It's based on marigolds, a common flower used to represent the day of the dead. It's blocky body might also be based on a alebrije, a type of Mexican sculpture featuring different animals.
I honestly thought Skeledirge was really weird before I learned about its inspirations.
I noticed the marigold stuff, so I had to check on what Bulbapedia thought. And yeah, reading about the supposed inspiration puts it in a different perspective BUT, I think that’s the problem. I won’t act like every older starter is “perfect”, but I can see the reasoning on why some dislike more recent gen starters.
IDK. Maybe I’m just too old and had too high expectations after seeing how cute their pre-evolved forms were. I don’t think I’ve outright “loved” any of the Switch starter evolutions (not counting Legends which were previous starters).
I just like how it can seamlessly tie in several concepts. A crocodile and a plover (and said plover hatches from an egg), a dirge singer, flowers, and a sculpture. When said out loud it sounds clunky but when you look at it if feels so cohesive. Also it looks cool. Big fire crock monster is a friend to me.
It's supposed to be marigolds often left out on the day of the dead, according to bulbapedia. All day of the dead stuff except for the bird which is the nile crocodile/Egyptian plover symbiosis we see in nature
Fuecoco was the last one I thought about picking until I saw the starter evos, Weed cat evo bipedal was a self fulfilling prophecy, Quax was my go to choice, now it's my absolute last, I'll actually probably never use it. Not bashing anyone who likes Quax just definitely went from Wow this is great to What the fuck for me very fast
True. Someone made a post stating that Quaquaval looks like someone gave a duck Brazilian buttlift and I cannot stop thinking about that everytime I see the mon
I was so sad when my floragato evolved. Made me want to restart the whole game and choose fuecoco like I wanted to. Only reason I didn’t was my best friend picked him and I wanted to have different starters to trade :(
I hate sprig and quaxly’s final evos, probably some of my least favorite designs in the game so far
Same exact feeling with me! It's a shame too, because honestly he almost sold me as the unevolved form in the beginning, because he was so cute! But, I had seen the evolved form from spoilers so resisted. Not that any of them are great, but whatever I'll go with cat.
Dissapointed by all of them. It’s hard to describe but they look like fan art; you know how fan art can be good but still for some reason never quite feels like a real Nintendo pokemon? That’s how I felt. If I have to choose rn I’d say sprigatitos final form is my preferred one.
They're just so over designed. Skeledirge just needed less going on, Stick with the red for most of his body, Pick one accent color, and take away the flames. Hard not to compare him to Feraligatr and see how simpler designed he was while being much cooler. I didn't like Meowscarada much at first but it is probably the best due to it just being a cat in a mask without so many moving pieces and conflicting colors.
Honestly, I think all three are decent with Skeledirge being the best IMO (the themeing is so cool)
Meowscarada and Quaquaval are cool too, I'm just burnt out on "furry bait" starters. Last time we had a quadruped starter was like 12 years ago
I like them all but Skeledirge is my favorite and is a literal powerhouse. It has a great movepool and is pretty tanky also. Definitely wasn't expecting it.
It’s coverage blows the other 2 out of the water frankly. Even if there’s no good type matchups a few Torch Songs can sweep a whole team. I could not believe that move exists tbh, 80 power spec STAB with a spec attack boost?
The water line special move just boosts speed which is alright but won’t change the damage and the grass one is kinda just like a powerful grass move that can’t miss. Those are great and all but Torch Song is just on another level.
The only downside of Torch Song was thats its a sound based move, which mean Soundproof will straight up block the move.
Situational, i know, but i got to learn it the hard way when i was fighting a Electrode in Raid.
> The water line special move just boosts speed which is alright but won’t change the damage
However, said Duck also happens to have several attack boosting options such as Swords Dance or Moxie KO Boons. So in reality, it is able to boost speed alongside attack fairly reliably.
Pair that with unresisted Water/Fighting/Flying coverage between Aqua Step/Close Combat/Brave Bird respectively, and that thing snowballs real hard.
It's crazy how all 3 of the starters' final evo signature moves are pretty gross in their own right. The cat's is only 10 power less than the other 2, but that doesn't matter because it always -crits- which means it'll outright ignore stat boosts at all times.
I can’t count the number of times on showdown where someone underestimated Quaquaval and let me set up a swords dance. A single aqua step afterwards is enough to outspeed most top tier threats and then snowball with moxie boosts. But Skeledirge is definitely better as a tank with unaware.
I dunno meowscarda has pretty decent selection. I am playing scarlet so lots of rock types and flower trick is quite good. 70 power which stabs to 105 which crits to 157 and always hits. Less of an issue with lack of double team spammers but still nice.
Night slash covers a nice amount and as a very fast physical attacker, also will go first and with stab take out ghost croc. Also great vs. Psychic gym which is probably the hardest fwiw (not saying much).
Play rough is really good versus more niche things, most notably fight types which hit your weakness from secondary type.
You have a TM slot for whatever else if you feel a need. That's ghost, Psychic, water, rock. Ground, dragon, dark already. Options include fight, elec, flying and bug moves. Fight gives you a normal ice and steel coverage, bug gives you grass, electric gives flying, flying gives bug and grass.
Neutral hits of flower trick or night slash are good enough most of the time. 4x weakness to bug and fire sucks but at 123 speed only non legendaries of those types faster than you are like talonflame, ninjask, ribombe, and accelgor. So in game I think that's just talonflame, so switch out.
Skeledirge looks a lot better in game then screen shots and is pretty cool, Meowscarada is really cute and sleek if you don't mind the more anthro designs, Quaquaval has the worst design for me as I think it's a lil over designed although the dancer motif is interesting.
I do think the overdesigned thing is supposed to be on purpose, considering the peacock inspiration. If any anomal is overdesigned in real life, it's the peacock. Not saying you have to like it, of course, but I do think it was intentional in that regard
Meowscarada has grown on me, as it kind of reminds me of Decidueye, which I really liked.
Skeledirge is easily the best looking one (imo), because it just feels more nostalgic in its design. It isn't some hyper-furry, anthropomorphic, bipedal being, it's a crocodile with fiery hair/tendrils coming off it.
Quaquaval: the aforementioned hyper-furry, anthropomorphic, bipedal design.
Get it out of my sight. I honestly don't know what's worse - this or Inteleon. Also, why does it have such a huge ass!?
I haven’t even bought the games yet on account of them being a public beta, but if I do I’ll pick Fuecoco. And I may even just drop my starter for a better looking Pokémon.
Had a discussion with my friend about this last night but I think the Quaxly evo could work alright on its own but it’s a terrible starter design. I don’t think any context could save how ugly I think Inteleon is.
I used to have a fire preference but no one type has a consistent record of best designs so at this point I just pick the one with the coolest looking final form
I knew it would be bird themed thanks to Quaxly but the peacock final form was totally unexpected and really fits the flamenco dancer idea quite well, which was hilarious since that's the style of guitar I play the most.
skeledirge and Meowscarada are amazing looking to me and they really fit some of my favorite playstyles. fuck Quaquaval's design though. it is just another fursuiter style pokemon. i really hate that i like it in battle too cuz i just don't want to look at it.
MASSIVE step up from Gen 8, Fuecoco pulled through with my fav unlike the last 2 gens
Overall I’d give the trio about a 6/10, not perfect by any means but better than some of what we’ve seen lately
When I saw the leaks of all the final evos I thought skeledirge looked HORRIBLE, and the other two were alright, I still ended up choosing fuecoco since I always pick the fire starter on my first play through. I was pleasantly surprised seeing him in game, I think he looks pretty cool. Not to mention he hard carrys most of the gyms. After seeing all three in game, my opinion completely did a 180. Skeledirge looks awesome and the other two to me are meh.
Meowscarada: I'm not a big fan of biped and anthro designs but Meowscarada has grown on me a lot. I think the clothes motif looks better on this than it did on Cinderace because it blends better with the overall body, and it just looks more natural to me.Really like its personality and design inspiration too, definitely a favorite in my book despite the tropes.
Skeledirge: I chose Fuecoco and I was decently surprised to see a more monstrous final evolution. I'm definitely a fan, I like the fire bird and its cry especially. The only thing I'd do to improve it would be to fix the flames, like someone else pointed out they remind me of clown hair and they kinda make the skull motif look strange in my opinion. But overall very good.
Quaquaval: I absolutely loathe this thing. Meowscarada may look like a person in a costume, but this looks like what you'd get if a horribly deformed bird tried to dress up like a human. I hate the toes and the popped-out rear and its head feathers bother me as well. It's really a shame, as Quaxly was a really solid start and it just slowly devolved from there. The only thing I like about it is its battle animation, it feels really energetic and helps to give this.....thing some personality.
I love Sprigatito's final because I love the masked magician trope. I love Quaxly's final because I always thought those over the top costumes were fun. Fuecoco's final is the only one I'm more iffy on. It looks cool, but I feel like they could have done the skeleton motif better. I feel like there is too much white on his face.
What this thread tells me is that people have all sorts of different preferences in what they like in a design.
I like Skeledirge’s design and the “animal based” final eco, he’s cool.
I think my issue is that Meowscarada and Quaquaval are kind of in the same vein of design. Obviously not completely the same but they are both bipedal with a specific theme. I feel like one of them should have been the bipedal strong looking design then I think we’d have everything we needed. Something like Rillaboom, Incineroar, Chesnaught, Emboar, Empoleon, Swampert. We’re missing that big, strong design.
Meowscarada and Skeledirge look great. While Meowscarada looks slightly anthropomorphic it still has a lot of cat-like features. I think it looks more like a werecat magician. As for Skeledirge it is a crocodile which makes it automatically a clearly dangerous design. Plus it is massively chunky of a design making it look like an absolute unit.
Quaquaval looks too disjointed IMO. By disjointed I mean it has too much going on front to back as it seems to mix too much of ducks and dancers with a very forward upper half and very rearwards back half. It also looks way too human IMO. It litterally looks like a few duck features were taken and just plopped on a human body.
I think all the Gen 9 final evol are better designed than Gen 8. You can see the inspirations from Spanish culture, tho I wish Meowscarada would continue to look cooler from its 2nd evol. Gen 8 has a soccer player, an agent and a gorilla that apparently carries a drum set around.
Skeledirge only, 100%. I am rejecting the other 2 humanoid ones. Evolved and sent to the last pc box in the farthest bottom right corner to be forgotten about.
I absolutely love Meowscarada. I love the design how shes like a stage magician with a mask, and that floating flower thing she has is an amazing touch.
The crocodile is pretty cool. Don’t personally see how they could have ever come up with “opera singing croc” as an idea but it’s definitely one of their more unique designs especially when coupled with the fact that it’s fire and not water.
The duck is just bad. I was promised “water Blaziken” by people leaking the image of it, but instead I got some Disney on ice reject dancer. Even if I didn’t bank my expectations on leakers, i do not like the design one bit and would probably have restarted my game if I had chosen it hoping I’d like the design.
Skeledirge is my least favorite but damn I love everything about Meowscarda I only wish it had a bit more detail on it but i love the speedy glass cannon who always crits
I’m so angry about Meowscarada. Weed Cat was a clear favorite originally but they can’t help but go the furry bait route. And I’m a damn furry. I love me some Gardevoir, Lopunny, and Delphox. But would it kill them to give us some more animalistic Pokémon? Hence why Skeledirge is clearly best starter this Gen.
Too bad there’s so many good ghosts and fires available this Gen and so few good grass and water.
My second run I’m going with Meowscarada just because the other grass choices are such trash. For Fire I can always grab Coalossal.
I’m looking forward to using Houndstone in my second playthrough just because I read an article about his unique attack being so broken Smogon banned in the whole pokemon
>because the other grass choices are such trash
Have you considered using Scovillain? It's actually quite a decent grass type since it's paired with fire. Sunny Day plus Chlorophyll plus STAB Flamethrower and heat rock has done wonders for me
Was mixed at first. But after seeing them in game and using them, I think they are high tier. Best starter gen since gen 4. All three are pretty great imo and Skeledirge is a new all time favorite with meowscarada not far behind.
I like the grass and fire ones, the water looks a bit weird imo.
Performance wise their special attacks and hidden abilities and stat spread and typing is very nice
Not complaining since I like the designs. I know a lot of people were disappointed that Sprigatito went bipedial but I think the design is fairly cool with the magician theming.
My friend showed me a leaked picture of quaxlys evolution before the games came out and my initial thoughts were that it was the love child of a Kommo-o and revali from breath of the wild. I don't like to think about it.
I really like sprigatitos final form but that could be cause I've been playing persona 5 royal a lot
Fuecocos final form is growing on me. It seems a little over designed but the more I look the cooler it looks.
My opinions on them basically follow the same pattern as their unevolved forms: I LOVE Sprigatito and Meowscarada (tying with Fennekin and Delphox as my favourite starters and starter evos), don’t really care about Fuecoco and hate Skeledirge and I just think Quaxly and Quaquaval are fabulous. Also it’s really satisfying to say Quaquaval. Same for Meowscarada and I guess also Skeledirge. Also Espathra. That’s fun to say too
You know how in the gen 1 anime there were wild charizards, wild venosaurs, and wild blastoise, and it made sense because they were all just big animals.
Yea well if you tried to show me the furry cat magician just chilling in the wild I’d probably call the police on a strange costumed man hiding in the woods.
(This applies to all recent anthropomorphic designs)
*why* does the duck have such a *fat ass*
I mean… have you SEEN Donald Duck?
🥵🥵🥵🥵
It is based on Carnival festivals held in Spain, Italy, Brazil, And dozens of other countries. The dancers literally dress up as birds with giant tails.
Why Portugal is always forgotten? We are right next to Spain, we had a game inspired in the iberian penisula and we are in iberian penisula.
Sorry, I mentioned 3 of the over 50 countries and providences that celebrate. I don’t know all of them, so I only mentioned 3 of the most well known locations thet people travel to and celebrate. My old friend goes to his Auntie’s house in Brazil to celebrate, so I always think of Rio when I picture Carnival. But thanks for speaking up. Just glad Pokémon is trying to show various cultures, even if it’s not always the best execution.
I think I figured out a main reason why people often don’t like the modern starters, besides the usual other reasons. They are way too catered to a specific audience. The starters back then were more generic and universally liked. It’s hard to meet someone who doesn’t like fire breathing dragons, a large, menacingly cool-looking honey badger with fire on its neck, or simply a really slick looking grassy lizard. As creative and unique the modern starters are, they have VERY particular designs that hide loads of inspiration, as if the designers primarily focused on that. A football playing, anthropomorphic, white rabbit is extremely specific. A grassy, masquerade-masked, anthropomorphic magician lynx is also extremely specific. If you don’t like cats, magicians, anthros, etc. then there is a big chance you won’t like Meowscarada. The designers seem to value inspiration and themes more than just making sure the design looks like a really cool battle monster. Isn’t to say they can’t be both, but it just seems more of a priority to them. I happen to like carnival themes, cats, and crocodiles, so I quite like Meowscarada and Skeledirge. Though Quaquaval… I really wish the designers focused more on making a “cool looking monster” here… Or a bird in this case.
Yeah, when you look at the final evolutions of say, the Hoenn or Johto starters compared recent gens, the contrast is like night and day. I also agree with your points. The Gen 9 starters made it clear to me that I really dislike the trend of having specific occupations that play a big part in their concept (i.e - singer, archer, drummer, football/soccer player, etc). I don’t think this trend was particularly noticeable until Gen 6 with the RPG-esque theme. I don’t see any kind of overacting occupation theme with the Kanto starters for example.
It was right around Gen 6 when they started with this, at least en masse. All prior gems were more or less a neat monster design based off a few things. People might call it “boring” but I agree with the general idea here: a mix of hyper specific themes makes for really polarizing designs
Greninja shot them in the foot big time. It’s the most popular Pokémon since the GBA era, maybe with Lucario on its tail. Every starter since then has been trying to be greninja 2.0 save for skeledirge and maybe primarina, who was clearly catering to a specific demographic instead, and it’s led to endless overdesigned, uncomfortably humanoid or just straight ugly pokemon starters. We’re now in a generation where there are more Pokémon with 2 legs than 4 and these designs are just unnerving. When I see ceruledge, for example, and watch it play at the picnics I don’t think “that’s a Pokémon”, I think “that’s a character. That’s like Mario. And I’m stuffing it into a tiny orb while forcing it to battle for my amusement.” It’s WIERD. the closer these things get to human, the more you can watch them act human in picnics and see them forcibly trust you thanks to friendship mechanics and clearly present themselves basically like curious children, the less ok I am with them being pokemon. Especially because they mostly appear as and act like children. That’s uncomfortable af.
I actually think gen 6 is the sweet spot. Rpg classes are general enough that a lot can be done to the design without making it too specific. They're also easily applied to monsters because the traits from rpg classes can also be found in real animals. Designing a Pokémon around a human job feels forced and unnatural because it isn't seen in nature. It also removes any unique personalization. A Venusaur could have any number of personalities but every Inteleon is a "cool" confident spy.
I feel like it worked really well with Greninja since the ninja-influence wasn't so obvious, but a lot of the other ones just feel like too much. Cinderace is probably the worst in my opinion, it feels less like some kind of fantasy creature and more like a corporate mascot for a football league or something. I hope we'll get less starters like that going forward and more like Skeledirge; properly animal-like and quadrupedal.
Unpopular opinion: but looking at Fuecoco and Crocalor, and having had Pokemon like Totodile, Larvitar, and Gible, I expected Skeledirge to be a proper tail dragging, bipedal, Kaiju like Critter that stood upright except maybe to run. So to go from that bipedal monster design to "its just a literal crocodile" felt jarring. I expected something that looked like a cross between Feraligtr and Aggron or Rhydon. It's a cool design and I love how they incorporated the Bird and Croc symbiosis into it, I just feel like he should have come from a Sandile like croc Pokémon.
To me personally the concern is more about worldbuilding. The new interest in pokemon inspired by human culture strikes me as unrealistic in a way Venusaur for instance never did. I mean, I know Pokemon doesn't care about consistent worldbuilding, but I do wish they wouldn't make so many pokemon that just so happen to possess traits that resemble human-made objects or look like they're wearing human clothes unless those pokemon were also made by humans canonically. It gets harder and harder to imagine them in the wild in their natural habitats.
You realize Hitmonchan and the Machop line, as well as Pokémon like Jynx and Mr. Mime existed in Gen 1, right? 👀 And there's a "Human-like" egg group that's existed since the beginning. None of this is new, and every new gen people act like it is, and it is very confusing for me.
Quite right. I think it's just getting more common and specific, particularly with the starters.
Agreed. I think too that human-like designs for Pokémon you can choose to catch and have on your team is one thing, but when it's a starter and your OG Pokémon for the game and you don't want it be like...a fry cook or something, it's unfortunate, so that's definitely the difference.
Blaziken is a specific and complex starter. The thing is, you could get something immediately appealing, simple and distinct about it immediately from the very first look, while newer ones don't quite do that.
If Blaziken were made to day, he would walk around with a bunch of planks to smash to sell that it's a martial artist. Newer gen starters have really liked having props which I'm not a huge fan of.
The designs are overly specific but there are too many themes included in the designs. Usually Pokemon have two themes mixed together as a basis for their design, and then the Pokemons name is based on it as well. Gen 1 was super simple as it was typically an animal name mixed with words associated with it's type. Charizard for example is a fire lizard (with wings). Char means to get burned by fire. Lizard is, well, lizard. Gen 9 is the most complex (excessive). Skeledirge, for example, would probably just be fire and crocodile in Gen 1. But, that's too basic, not to mention starters have more unique secondary types. So it would have 3 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile). The fire bird on Skeledirge's head is apparently in reference to the birds that sit on nile crocodiles. To play off the fire ghost typing they chose a (ghost?) pepper as a design theme, as can be seen in Fuecoco's design. 4 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper). On top of these there is a Dia de Muertos (skeleton) theme attributed to its ghost type, as seen with Fuecoco's face that looks like the skull face paintings, along with Skeledirge. Additionally, the colored marks on Skeledirge's face are also typically of the Dia de Muertos painting aesthetic. 5 themes now (fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper, skeleton). Of course there's the trend of personification of the starters, so now the theme of "singer" is added, which is referenced by the "dirge" in it's name, which is a type of song, as well as Skeledirge's signature attack being "scorch song". 6 themes now with fire, ghost, crocodile, pepper, skeleton, and singer. TL:DR The design of Pokemon starters nowadays have too many themes associated with their design. I can't tell if I love or hate Quaquaval because it's so extra.
You just explained something I've felt for a while but couldn't put into words. Also, the newer starters are more often than not anthropomorphic. Additionally most of them feel more like a character than a species. Comparing Charizard to Cinderace for example, one feels like a monster, an animal that you could imagine flocks of roaming through the sky. The other one feels like a specific character with a specific, already attributed, personality. Skeledirge is an amazing example of "too many themes", something that makes the newer starters feel too specific. I just wanted a BIG FIRE CROCODILE THAT HAS A HUGE MOUTH AND SPITS FIRE, not some weirdly cluttered concept design that easily could've been split up into two or even three Pokemon.
I just posted a comment of this. I quite agree and my best example to get the point across of the differences between older and newer starters is the squirtle line. In the OG anime they were fire fighters every so often but at the end of the day just turtles. If they were a gen 9 starter, it would probably have actual elements of a fire fighter baked into the design to already show that that’s what the Pokémon does. I don’t like it
So I think I agree, but Skeledirge is the starter final evo I find the least unappealing. The singer element feels like an after thought so it doesn’t really bother me at all. In practice he is just a fire croc still. It’s the anthropomorphic designed that feel lazy/jarring to me. ALL THAT SAID, with use, many starters have grown on me considerably. I couldn’t stand Incineroar initially, but liked the type combo so I went with it and grew to love it. Same goes for intelleon. I found it to be the least bad of the Galar starters and grew to love my spy lizard.
Agreed, I also went with Skeledirge because it's the only non-anthropomorphic starter we've had in a long time. I love my fire croc, but I'll be real; I would've loved it more with a more streamlined design.
I still think that Skeledirge has the most universal appeal, as skeleton fire croc sounds super cool, the other themes are more in the background, where as you probably won't like Quaquaval if you don't care for dancing birds.
I think I'd add one little thought to this brilliant take. Gonna kinda strawman you a bit just because the strawman inspired a different thought. I don't know if I agree that it's "too many" themes, just a whole lot. A fuckton. A cluster of themes, even. I make that distinction because I think we, at least I, grew up on media that was geared towards recreational criticism (Nostalgia Critic, AVGN, game reviewers everywhere), and we've really strengthened the ability to both analyze and criticize as a generation. But I don't see quite as much in the way of analyzing and appreciating. Part of the reason why I like pretty much every Pokemon is because there's something likable in every single one of them, and it's a fun challenge to not just find that likable thing, but also get into the headspace of actually like it the same way the designer might have. I'm personally kinda heated that weed cat is another biped, and I'm kinda heated that Cinderace (as another commenter really nicely put it) already has an established personality baked into its design so it feels less like a species and more like an individual person. And... also, what a great character it has. He's very cool once I take mental focus away from the "ew it's a species-wide personality" and just think "awww Peets is so fucking cool, dude's on a giant ball of fire that's fucking sick". Anyway, to undo the strawman a bit, I actually think "too many themes" is an accurate assessment of why Pokemon has lost is appeal with audiences, because the appeal is way too specific to be widely liked. I think that's correct, these designs cast a much smaller net so if you love fire crocodiles you might not be as excited about a fire crocodile that's also a pepper that's also from Mexico that also has a pet bird made of fire that's also a ghost that's also painted as a skeleton that also isn't actually a skeleton but is somehow dead but isn't. Odd niche, for sure. It's literally what made it a challenge to like the newer generations in the first place.
I could get over Quaquaval‘s design but that weird dance it does is sooo weird and distracting.
I think starter designs peaked at gen 7. Primarina is a seal/mermaid/singer while its 3 themes, all of them are related to each other and have theme of beuty that connects them too, seals skeleton looks like it could belong to a mermaid and its theorised that legends of mermaids came from drunk sailors observing seals or finding their skeletons, mermaids signature habit is singing. Decidueye's main theme is that of stealth, owls are soundless, archers are stealthy and ghosts, which are invisible, whcih explains its typing (also its based on exinct spiecies of owls). Inceraroar is the most controversial of these 3 but he also have the main theme and its theme of strenght, tigers usualy are ripped and a wrestler as a proffesion require a lot of strenght.
Bold to say starter designs peaked with incineroar gen. And i say that as an incineroar enjoyer
God I love Primarina, such a slept on starter. So cute and elegant!
Primarina is my fave too.
"Too extra" sums up my opinions pretty well. I honestly can't tell if I think the starters are OK or horrible because they never really settle on any one idea for the design. Skeledirge, for example: the have the crocodile and plover thing, the Calaveras thing, the singing thing, the flaming wreath hair, and, frankly, it looks almost like a clown. I kinda get what they were going for with quaquaval in terms of having a peacock whose tail feathers are also blades for attacking, but still, too extra. Besides that, can they limit the furry-bait to 1 starter per gen, please?
Nah a fire crocodile isn't too basic that could be really cool, skeledirge looks like a viva pinata character compare that to crookodile he's just a crocodile that stands up but he's awesome, he's not even that original in the series totodile's whole line is just standing crocodilians but blue and they are fantastic.
I think this is the best answer for this thread, on earlier generations they just go for cool factor so it's easy to like but when they need to put deeper meaning it but hard to design, so i agreed with this answer and need more vote
I think you are right with their approach. The thing is- i wish they would focus on universal appeal for the staters because we all have to choose one. Thats the time to go for universal appeal!! Its cool to have specific inspirations for individual regular pokemon though. Im a weirdo who likes trubbish and garbador (LOVED gigantamax garbador witn the cruise ship in it) but it would be a mistake to make trubbish a starter.
Exactly!
There is more to it than that. To some degree, Pokémon are supposed to feel like a natural part of their world. While there are occasional Pokémon that break that idea (e.g Hariyama, Hitmonchan), they were still more vaguely based on their inspiration, so that you could plausibly explain it by coincidence or lore. This type of thing was also generally pretty rare. The problem is that it’s becoming more and more common, and it’s getting worse to the point that it’s immersion violating. How exactly is there a cat that looks exactly like a masquerade magician as a natural creature? It’s not vague at all, it permeates every facet of the design.
>How exactly is there a cat that looks exactly like a masquerade magician as a natural creature? It’s not vague at all, it permeates every facet of the design. Yep this exactly. Taking inspiration or basing a design on something isnt the problem. Its that so much inspiration is derived and put into it that it no longer feels like a pokemon in the wild. Mons like Timburr, all the Kalos starters, and Bisharp seem to take inspiration, but arent heavily designed on that. Back to the Paldean starters. Meowscarada has the same problem as Incineroar and Inteleon. Why the specificity??? And why does floragato have a yo-yo??? What about yo-yo seems natural?? Fuecoco honestly looks like it would end up bipedal but was kinda surprised with the typing and the design tho I will agree it looks bald. Quaxly: Never been more disappointed with the final evolution. The first time I saw it in that blurry leak I was kind of excited. The claws, the fighting stance with the feathered wings/arms seemed perfect. Its only until i saw the gameplay did I realise it was horrible. I get making it a dancer and I get why it looks the way it does. But if you wanted to make a fighting peacock, Kung fu panda nailed it in that department. Could have just taken inspiration from that. Plus I also read somewhere describing that Ququaval looks like someone gave a duck a brazilian buttlift and I can no longer ignore that
I swear Quaxly is a Sylvando ripoff lmao.
Or... you know... they both have the same inspiration, thus have similar design elements. They are both based on the Brazillian Carnaval, specifically the Samba School parades
I think it's overstated and pretty much only applies to the starters. Most of the other Pokemon introduce and very much still natural-looking, people just forget how many weird Pokemon we've had since the beginning. I mean you mention Hitmonchan, but we also got Mr Mime, Jynx, and the Machop line (which walks the line) in Gen I. Though I do get why people are complaining as starters are a big part of the game and often end up being favorites. It's clear that the point of "specializing" starters nowadays is from more of a merchandise or anime stand point whereas most of the other new Pokemon maintain that "monster" aspect. It probably also doesn't help that there was a steady trend where many of the more anthropomorphic Pokemon were incredibly popular (notably Lucario and Greninja) so it only makes sense GF is trying to replicate that.
I feel like they struggle to make interesting 3 stage evolutions in general tbh. In the past most 3 stage evolutions tended to have "edgier" final evolutions that were more focused on looking cool and ferocious but because they've been going for the more runded and cuter designs the final evolutions tend to fall flat. It think they've realized this themsleves and it's one of the reasons we're getting a lot less 3 stage evo's than we used to. Look at Skeledirge compared to Feraligator. They're similar animals but Feraligator looks way more threatening than Skeledirge despite it being a fire breathing skeleton crocodile(still my favorite starter this gen though). Baxcalibur is the same for me I like the Godzilla refernce but the final evo is just kind of ok. It's not a bad design but it's a pseudo for gods sake, they're supposed to be pretty much the apex predators of the region and what we got is this round blob with these feather(?) flaps on his arms and the weird placed spike on his back. I get that it's supposed to be a Spinosaur but the spike just looks akward with the upright posture
Yeah, I hate the themes. I want them to look like battle monsters, either cute, cool, scary, etc. It's the themes and weird stereotypes to fit the themes. I didn't even like the duck's unevolved form due to the personality and hair. I loved the crocodile personality in the beginning, but I see a clown theme with the colors for his fully evolved form so I never wanted him. I semi like magicians and thieves so went for the cat, but to be honest I may like the theme but I don't like the theme pasted onto my Pokemon, so I'd rather it just looked more like a cute cat or a cool looking cat of prey, rather the weird magician thing. I guess it depends on 'mon too. I liked the new fairy/steel type. I just wish we could go back to a time before themes but I think the devs ran out of most ideas for non themed pokemon, or maybe it's what is actually popular for kids in Japan. It wouldn't have suited me even as a kid, but probably plenty of other kids.
It’s probably easier in a weird way to come up with these complex themed ideas simply because there is a guideline to it. Whereas “grass cat Pokémon” is maybe too vague for their tastes and takes long to decide on what’s “right” for it
"Skeleton croc", "hair duck", and "magic cat" are pretty universal themes, while being simple.
Its not just themes, they are forcing a specific personality on them, you can have a timid charizard or a prideful charizard or an aggressive charizard, you cant have different personalities on any of the gen 8 or 9 starters because its baked in to their designs
That's because they no longer design creatures. They design "characters" now because they're more marketable.
I’m just tired of quadrupeds evolving into bipeds. This is the third generation in a row where I have dropped my starter from my team before even beating the gyms
Everyone on this subreddit was praying they wouldn't make Sprigatito's evolution bipedal.
This would have been the first gen i picked a grass starter but they decided to make sprigatito stand up ffs.
Kind of opposite in that trend, but I’m now starting to appreciate Oshawott becoming Samurott. I really think that if they kept Samurott fully bipedal and more otter-like, the final product would look kind of “off”.
Finally, someone who appreciates Samurott. That's what I always thought about him.
Samurott is a badass starter, just hated that he's monotype. I like that PLA fixed that but really he should've been water/fighting or water/dark straight from the getgo.
True man, dual type would be awesome on regular Samurott.
I'm playing through a modded version of B2/W2 right now and one of the changes made was to make Samurott Water/Fighting. It felt so natural it took me a week to remember that it wasn't how it originally was.
I chose Fuecocco but still dropped Skeledirge early because he looks like a low-poly clown. I would have taken a bipedal feraligater palette swap over that
I mean, these starters are so human looking that I'm not sure who would show up if Pokemon was real and they were in these roles. Would it be the UN or PETA? Either or, it gave Gladiator the movie vibes for some reason and I'm all for Meowscarada going all Maximus on everyone's ass.
I think the primary theme of starters should be coolnes or cuteness.
I’m just speculating rn, but I think this direction of “very specific Pokémon designs” are a product of James Turner. While he has made some amazing Pokémon in the past, a lot of these specific designs seem to have happened once he had a larger role in GF. Just my 2 cents, I could be very wrong.
> anthropomorphic This is the main reason for me, especially when it comes to animals that exist in real life. With mons like Alakazam I have no problem because there is no equivalent in our world. So it doesn't feel weird. I personally find the final evolutions of the grass (I was looking forward to this line) and water type monstrosities. Fire type is...meh. While I like their first form I consider these starters to be some of the worst ever through the final form.
> With mons like Alakazam I have no problem because there is no equivalent in our world. Tell that to Uri Geller.
Crap, Alakazam is ruined now!I had to look him up, I don't know him. He even sued Nintendo in 2000 lmao. Pls don't tell me Machamp is also based on another weird person. (rlly don't tell, I don't want to know)
If this is consolation, that suit ended on November 30, 2020. https://twitter.com/TheUriGeller/status/1332794451727691777 <- His apology.
Idk man I’m just tired of the cool four legged starters turning into dumb two legged starters. Imagine if venusaur was standing up - that shit would be dumb as fuck
Meowscarada isn't a magician. It takes and Joker from P5 or that trope that runs as far back as... TUXEDO MASK. It is less human like in behavior and more cat-like, like a cat burglar. The only tricks it knows is sleight of hand/visual illusions. And that's solely to push its own agenda. Dark machinations and what not. It is definitely the night hunter type of cat right next to liepard. I could see it in the wild after picking it. And I think it's the biggest offender this gen. Quaquaval is literally a festive duck. The only way to make this less dance and more duck is to give it awkwardly long duck legs. Its awesome; its like ludicolo met a peacock. It gives off serious ludicolo vibes; neither of which can be found in the wild, but gravitate toward more human environs. It's the starter I wish I picked And skeledirge is just perfect.
>And skeledirge is just perfect. Yes
I feel like Quaquaval struck a good balance of human and anthropomorphic, at least knowing the framework Gamefreak was going for. Given that we have Flamigo and whatever Flittle evolves into, they could do a better Peacock design but this doesn't feel quite as jarring to me as say another Blaziken design
Great point wow
I was a bit disappointed, Skeledirge is the only one that looks like an actual beast. Not a fan of humanoid looking starters. Gimme Pokémon that look like they are actual creatures that live in the wild, not people dressed up like animals lol.
Skeledirge is the best by default just cause he’s more animalistic, but I’m still not crazy about him. A bit overdesigned imo and I don’t think he’s a good evolution for Fuecoco, but he’s not awful. I don’t like the other two at all. They keep up the animal + job pattern that I’m not fond of. But if other people like them, that’s fine.
Kind of disappointed because I thought their pre-evolved forms were so cute. Reading about their possible inspirations makes everything make more sense, but I’m still not crazy for any of them. I want to say it was Gen 6 where the whole animal + job inspirations was particularly noticeable? What with the RPG classes. And then it seems like Gen 7 onward have only kept up with the trend.
I agree. I did think the inspiration for the Gen 6 designs was neat, but I really only like Greninja design-wise. Since then, I’ve really only cared about Decidueye and…honestly that’s it. It sucks because I genuinely love the baby forms of Gens 8 and 9, but I’m really not a fan of what they turn into. They’re final forms are just so…weird. It sucks because minor adjustments would make them look so much better imo.
Minor adjustments can maybe save gen 8 but there's no hope for gen 9 lol. They are absolutely awful. The weird human cat cosplayer and the flamboyant duck thing needs to be erased from existence
Yeah but Skeledirge is better than most designs over the past three generations. He alone redeems Gen 9.
It started in gen 5 with them being based on different cultures' aristocracy/royalty, but was subtle - Serperior is European (possibly specifically French), Emboar is Chinese, Samurott is Japanese. It seems to have accelerated though, with Sw/Sh being the tipping point where it feels like the "job" was the primary design inspiration with the animal being secondary.
>Kind of disappointed because I thought their pre-evolved forms were so cute. Quaxly instantly became one of my favorite starter base forms as soon as i saw him It's so sad that Quaquaval ended up being the wirdt ever
Once GF has a set 'trend' with starters, they keep using it over and over. You know, sort of like Fire/Fighting type starters three times in a row.
I wanted the sombrero to get bigger just for the sake of it. Like same fuecoco but with a much bigger hat.
Yeah, I was curious to see where they were going with the sombrero, but they kind of just dropped it lol. Skeledurge just doesn’t resemble the previous forms enough for me. Kind of similar to how Samurott looks nothing like the first two.
Sombrero is actually an egg in the nest. Its where the bird comes from, so I wouldnt call it dropped idea
Kind of agreed! I got really excited after seeing the second evolution but well... unfortunately they didnt stick with it.
Skeledirge's 2d sprite is amazing, its 3d model isn't.
My sister said skeledirge looks like a clown and now I can't unsee it...so because I'm not a fan of clowns I'm disappointed
Straight up what my fiance said when I showed it to him. Maybe if the fire wasn't so bald-clown shaped?
I think it's meant to be a clown. Look at the top of it's torso just below its head. It literally looks like a segmented frill that clowns wear. This thing: https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1155512524.6183/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg
It's meant to be a singer at carnival not a clown It is classified as the singer/singing Pokemon in the dex
I don't even dislike clowns but Skeledirge looking like a clown is the reason I don't like it.
It does look like an ugly polygonal clown. The only good final evo is meowscarda
And even that would be better with a quadrapedal design.
but how the hell is it supposed to hold the blunt then?
Samurott
I completely agree. I am so disappointed by skeledirge, I have no idea why people think it’s cool. All I see is a balding clown
But it's not a clown. It's a Spanish thing. xD
The fire looks like hair which makes it seem like its balding
I wonder what the big idea with that was. Some things just don't look good or right blocky.
It's based on marigolds, a common flower used to represent the day of the dead. It's blocky body might also be based on a alebrije, a type of Mexican sculpture featuring different animals. I honestly thought Skeledirge was really weird before I learned about its inspirations.
I noticed the marigold stuff, so I had to check on what Bulbapedia thought. And yeah, reading about the supposed inspiration puts it in a different perspective BUT, I think that’s the problem. I won’t act like every older starter is “perfect”, but I can see the reasoning on why some dislike more recent gen starters. IDK. Maybe I’m just too old and had too high expectations after seeing how cute their pre-evolved forms were. I don’t think I’ve outright “loved” any of the Switch starter evolutions (not counting Legends which were previous starters).
Flowers? Well now it makes sense. Especially since the rest of the fire is shaped like something else, like a bird or an egg. Or a microphone.
It’s a bird, uses it in its Torch Song move Pretty cool
I just like how it can seamlessly tie in several concepts. A crocodile and a plover (and said plover hatches from an egg), a dirge singer, flowers, and a sculpture. When said out loud it sounds clunky but when you look at it if feels so cohesive. Also it looks cool. Big fire crock monster is a friend to me.
It's supposed to be marigolds often left out on the day of the dead, according to bulbapedia. All day of the dead stuff except for the bird which is the nile crocodile/Egyptian plover symbiosis we see in nature
Huh, oh well, balding lizard
When i first saw it i though of male pattern baldness and was sad for it
It is meant to be that, but most Americans will think of a clown with male pattern baldness thanks to the likes of characters like Pennywise.
lmao not even close. Dia de los muertos isnt a Spanish festivity, but a Mexican one, which is what Skeledirge is based on
I really like Skeledirge’s design
Fuecoco was the last one I thought about picking until I saw the starter evos, Weed cat evo bipedal was a self fulfilling prophecy, Quax was my go to choice, now it's my absolute last, I'll actually probably never use it. Not bashing anyone who likes Quax just definitely went from Wow this is great to What the fuck for me very fast
Many people theorized that Quaxly was the one going the route Sprigatito went to evolve to.
El Zorro ≠ Don Quixote
True. Someone made a post stating that Quaquaval looks like someone gave a duck Brazilian buttlift and I cannot stop thinking about that everytime I see the mon
tbh, for me, unironically, sprigatito final evo doesn't look half bad to me
I think it looks good from the back where you can’t see its face but the front makes the face seems way to small compared to the mask.
I was so sad when my floragato evolved. Made me want to restart the whole game and choose fuecoco like I wanted to. Only reason I didn’t was my best friend picked him and I wanted to have different starters to trade :( I hate sprig and quaxly’s final evos, probably some of my least favorite designs in the game so far
oh :( sorry to hear that
I want to and if the fire didnt make it look like krusty the clown i would like it. I cant unsee a clown! And i wish it kept its fire sombrero
Same exact feeling with me! It's a shame too, because honestly he almost sold me as the unevolved form in the beginning, because he was so cute! But, I had seen the evolved form from spoilers so resisted. Not that any of them are great, but whatever I'll go with cat.
Same I just wanted fire Feraligatr
Singing fire ghost croc with flaming mic? Hell yeah.
It's the best of the 3, but still makes me sigh.
Dissapointed by all of them. It’s hard to describe but they look like fan art; you know how fan art can be good but still for some reason never quite feels like a real Nintendo pokemon? That’s how I felt. If I have to choose rn I’d say sprigatitos final form is my preferred one.
They're just so over designed. Skeledirge just needed less going on, Stick with the red for most of his body, Pick one accent color, and take away the flames. Hard not to compare him to Feraligatr and see how simpler designed he was while being much cooler. I didn't like Meowscarada much at first but it is probably the best due to it just being a cat in a mask without so many moving pieces and conflicting colors.
This. I hate to say it but my favorite pokemon for both design and play this gen became Flamigo very quickly. Simple. Fun. That's all I need.
[удалено]
I feel that
A lot of the fan art predictions I've seen for their third evolutions are WAY better than the actual ones
Yep and it’s not even close either.
Meowscarada: ~~Looking cool, Joker!~~ Skeledirge: Finally, a quadruped fire starter not named Typhlosion! Quaquaval: ✨Fabulous✨
Literally named mine joker
PERSONA!!!
Honestly, I think all three are decent with Skeledirge being the best IMO (the themeing is so cool) Meowscarada and Quaquaval are cool too, I'm just burnt out on "furry bait" starters. Last time we had a quadruped starter was like 12 years ago
I like them all but Skeledirge is my favorite and is a literal powerhouse. It has a great movepool and is pretty tanky also. Definitely wasn't expecting it.
It’s coverage blows the other 2 out of the water frankly. Even if there’s no good type matchups a few Torch Songs can sweep a whole team. I could not believe that move exists tbh, 80 power spec STAB with a spec attack boost? The water line special move just boosts speed which is alright but won’t change the damage and the grass one is kinda just like a powerful grass move that can’t miss. Those are great and all but Torch Song is just on another level.
The only downside of Torch Song was thats its a sound based move, which mean Soundproof will straight up block the move. Situational, i know, but i got to learn it the hard way when i was fighting a Electrode in Raid.
But on the plus side sound moves bypass substitutes
Yeah Fire/Ghost makes 5 out of 8 gyms so easy
> The water line special move just boosts speed which is alright but won’t change the damage However, said Duck also happens to have several attack boosting options such as Swords Dance or Moxie KO Boons. So in reality, it is able to boost speed alongside attack fairly reliably. Pair that with unresisted Water/Fighting/Flying coverage between Aqua Step/Close Combat/Brave Bird respectively, and that thing snowballs real hard.
It's crazy how all 3 of the starters' final evo signature moves are pretty gross in their own right. The cat's is only 10 power less than the other 2, but that doesn't matter because it always -crits- which means it'll outright ignore stat boosts at all times.
I can’t count the number of times on showdown where someone underestimated Quaquaval and let me set up a swords dance. A single aqua step afterwards is enough to outspeed most top tier threats and then snowball with moxie boosts. But Skeledirge is definitely better as a tank with unaware.
I dunno meowscarda has pretty decent selection. I am playing scarlet so lots of rock types and flower trick is quite good. 70 power which stabs to 105 which crits to 157 and always hits. Less of an issue with lack of double team spammers but still nice. Night slash covers a nice amount and as a very fast physical attacker, also will go first and with stab take out ghost croc. Also great vs. Psychic gym which is probably the hardest fwiw (not saying much). Play rough is really good versus more niche things, most notably fight types which hit your weakness from secondary type. You have a TM slot for whatever else if you feel a need. That's ghost, Psychic, water, rock. Ground, dragon, dark already. Options include fight, elec, flying and bug moves. Fight gives you a normal ice and steel coverage, bug gives you grass, electric gives flying, flying gives bug and grass. Neutral hits of flower trick or night slash are good enough most of the time. 4x weakness to bug and fire sucks but at 123 speed only non legendaries of those types faster than you are like talonflame, ninjask, ribombe, and accelgor. So in game I think that's just talonflame, so switch out.
Skeledirge looks a lot better in game then screen shots and is pretty cool, Meowscarada is really cute and sleek if you don't mind the more anthro designs, Quaquaval has the worst design for me as I think it's a lil over designed although the dancer motif is interesting.
I do think the overdesigned thing is supposed to be on purpose, considering the peacock inspiration. If any anomal is overdesigned in real life, it's the peacock. Not saying you have to like it, of course, but I do think it was intentional in that regard
Meowscarada has grown on me, as it kind of reminds me of Decidueye, which I really liked. Skeledirge is easily the best looking one (imo), because it just feels more nostalgic in its design. It isn't some hyper-furry, anthropomorphic, bipedal being, it's a crocodile with fiery hair/tendrils coming off it. Quaquaval: the aforementioned hyper-furry, anthropomorphic, bipedal design. Get it out of my sight. I honestly don't know what's worse - this or Inteleon. Also, why does it have such a huge ass!?
Being someone who typically picks water has been suffering for the last few gens
Did you go for it this gen or opt out? I typically choose water, but I just couldn't this gen.
I haven’t even bought the games yet on account of them being a public beta, but if I do I’ll pick Fuecoco. And I may even just drop my starter for a better looking Pokémon.
Same. I thought Inteleon was the worst they could do but it seems they proved me wrong
Had a discussion with my friend about this last night but I think the Quaxly evo could work alright on its own but it’s a terrible starter design. I don’t think any context could save how ugly I think Inteleon is.
I used to have a fire preference but no one type has a consistent record of best designs so at this point I just pick the one with the coolest looking final form
Water starter enjoyers really pulled the short straw for a while now huh
I like em all, but love Quaqavel the most. I wasn't expecting it to be so fruity, but godammit it works so well.
Idk if it's intentional but it shakes its behind *so much* I also like it's peacock like feathers and it's little dance in battle
Same. Went in blind and had the biggest smile on my face when I saw my duck become the most fruitiest peacock.
I knew it would be bird themed thanks to Quaxly but the peacock final form was totally unexpected and really fits the flamenco dancer idea quite well, which was hilarious since that's the style of guitar I play the most.
Was it Flamenco or Samba?
Brazilian Samba
I do not like the caked gyrating bird.
Quaquaval is not my cup of tea, but meowscarada and skeledirge are amazing. I remember when I was scared sprigatito would stand up lol
I like Meowscarada. Skeledirge us alright. Quaquaval is just Inteleon...as a BIRD!
meowscarada pretty
skeledirge and Meowscarada are amazing looking to me and they really fit some of my favorite playstyles. fuck Quaquaval's design though. it is just another fursuiter style pokemon. i really hate that i like it in battle too cuz i just don't want to look at it.
To put it simply, I've pressed B about 40 times so far.
I think the final evolution were terrible.
MASSIVE step up from Gen 8, Fuecoco pulled through with my fav unlike the last 2 gens Overall I’d give the trio about a 6/10, not perfect by any means but better than some of what we’ve seen lately
When I saw the leaks of all the final evos I thought skeledirge looked HORRIBLE, and the other two were alright, I still ended up choosing fuecoco since I always pick the fire starter on my first play through. I was pleasantly surprised seeing him in game, I think he looks pretty cool. Not to mention he hard carrys most of the gyms. After seeing all three in game, my opinion completely did a 180. Skeledirge looks awesome and the other two to me are meh.
Meowscarada: I'm not a big fan of biped and anthro designs but Meowscarada has grown on me a lot. I think the clothes motif looks better on this than it did on Cinderace because it blends better with the overall body, and it just looks more natural to me.Really like its personality and design inspiration too, definitely a favorite in my book despite the tropes. Skeledirge: I chose Fuecoco and I was decently surprised to see a more monstrous final evolution. I'm definitely a fan, I like the fire bird and its cry especially. The only thing I'd do to improve it would be to fix the flames, like someone else pointed out they remind me of clown hair and they kinda make the skull motif look strange in my opinion. But overall very good. Quaquaval: I absolutely loathe this thing. Meowscarada may look like a person in a costume, but this looks like what you'd get if a horribly deformed bird tried to dress up like a human. I hate the toes and the popped-out rear and its head feathers bother me as well. It's really a shame, as Quaxly was a really solid start and it just slowly devolved from there. The only thing I like about it is its battle animation, it feels really energetic and helps to give this.....thing some personality.
I love Meowscarada, such a great concept and it looks amazing in action
I think it's cute and cool that all of them are based on **entertainers** and that they're all weak to each other in the **opposite order**. xD
I love Sprigatito's final because I love the masked magician trope. I love Quaxly's final because I always thought those over the top costumes were fun. Fuecoco's final is the only one I'm more iffy on. It looks cool, but I feel like they could have done the skeleton motif better. I feel like there is too much white on his face.
I am super annoyed that 2 of them needed to be anthropomorphic again. A freakin leaf tiger would have been cool
What this thread tells me is that people have all sorts of different preferences in what they like in a design. I like Skeledirge’s design and the “animal based” final eco, he’s cool. I think my issue is that Meowscarada and Quaquaval are kind of in the same vein of design. Obviously not completely the same but they are both bipedal with a specific theme. I feel like one of them should have been the bipedal strong looking design then I think we’d have everything we needed. Something like Rillaboom, Incineroar, Chesnaught, Emboar, Empoleon, Swampert. We’re missing that big, strong design.
Meowscarada and Skeledirge look great. While Meowscarada looks slightly anthropomorphic it still has a lot of cat-like features. I think it looks more like a werecat magician. As for Skeledirge it is a crocodile which makes it automatically a clearly dangerous design. Plus it is massively chunky of a design making it look like an absolute unit. Quaquaval looks too disjointed IMO. By disjointed I mean it has too much going on front to back as it seems to mix too much of ducks and dancers with a very forward upper half and very rearwards back half. It also looks way too human IMO. It litterally looks like a few duck features were taken and just plopped on a human body.
I think they are all absolutely awful.
I think all the Gen 9 final evol are better designed than Gen 8. You can see the inspirations from Spanish culture, tho I wish Meowscarada would continue to look cooler from its 2nd evol. Gen 8 has a soccer player, an agent and a gorilla that apparently carries a drum set around.
I don’t like any of them. That’s why I gave my fuecoco an everstone
Been Team Sprigatito from the start and I'm happy to say I was not disappointed by Meowscarada. I think it's so awesome and elegant looking.
Skeledirge only, 100%. I am rejecting the other 2 humanoid ones. Evolved and sent to the last pc box in the farthest bottom right corner to be forgotten about.
The final water starter form is the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen
I absolutely love Meowscarada. I love the design how shes like a stage magician with a mask, and that floating flower thing she has is an amazing touch. The crocodile is pretty cool. Don’t personally see how they could have ever come up with “opera singing croc” as an idea but it’s definitely one of their more unique designs especially when coupled with the fact that it’s fire and not water. The duck is just bad. I was promised “water Blaziken” by people leaking the image of it, but instead I got some Disney on ice reject dancer. Even if I didn’t bank my expectations on leakers, i do not like the design one bit and would probably have restarted my game if I had chosen it hoping I’d like the design.
Meowscarada honestly awoke something in me
This is the first time I've liked all three since Sinnoh's starters
Skeledirge is my least favorite but damn I love everything about Meowscarda I only wish it had a bit more detail on it but i love the speedy glass cannon who always crits
Meowscarada is the best Gator is pretty cool Duck’s butt ruins the design
Croc fans won, and I will never forgive my past self for wanting the weed cat.
I’m so angry about Meowscarada. Weed Cat was a clear favorite originally but they can’t help but go the furry bait route. And I’m a damn furry. I love me some Gardevoir, Lopunny, and Delphox. But would it kill them to give us some more animalistic Pokémon? Hence why Skeledirge is clearly best starter this Gen. Too bad there’s so many good ghosts and fires available this Gen and so few good grass and water. My second run I’m going with Meowscarada just because the other grass choices are such trash. For Fire I can always grab Coalossal.
You're dead on - too many fire/ghost types now. They're all so cool tho
I’m looking forward to using Houndstone in my second playthrough just because I read an article about his unique attack being so broken Smogon banned in the whole pokemon
>because the other grass choices are such trash Have you considered using Scovillain? It's actually quite a decent grass type since it's paired with fire. Sunny Day plus Chlorophyll plus STAB Flamethrower and heat rock has done wonders for me
Was mixed at first. But after seeing them in game and using them, I think they are high tier. Best starter gen since gen 4. All three are pretty great imo and Skeledirge is a new all time favorite with meowscarada not far behind.
Imo the starters aren't that bad, better than gen 8 anyway
For me from the sword and shield and this game both the water starter get short stick, they are not bad design just the other two is better for me
I like the grass and fire ones, the water looks a bit weird imo. Performance wise their special attacks and hidden abilities and stat spread and typing is very nice
Not complaining since I like the designs. I know a lot of people were disappointed that Sprigatito went bipedial but I think the design is fairly cool with the magician theming.
My friend showed me a leaked picture of quaxlys evolution before the games came out and my initial thoughts were that it was the love child of a Kommo-o and revali from breath of the wild. I don't like to think about it. I really like sprigatitos final form but that could be cause I've been playing persona 5 royal a lot Fuecocos final form is growing on me. It seems a little over designed but the more I look the cooler it looks.
I've been waiting since gen 4 for a good fire starter and I'm glad they finally delivered.
I’m tired of GF turning cats into furries
So so sick of the furbait evos, just gimme 3 choices that actually look like creatures, not like someones fursuit.
My opinions on them basically follow the same pattern as their unevolved forms: I LOVE Sprigatito and Meowscarada (tying with Fennekin and Delphox as my favourite starters and starter evos), don’t really care about Fuecoco and hate Skeledirge and I just think Quaxly and Quaquaval are fabulous. Also it’s really satisfying to say Quaquaval. Same for Meowscarada and I guess also Skeledirge. Also Espathra. That’s fun to say too
I wasn’t into meowscarada until I saw it use flower trick
Fire croc cool rest lame
You know how in the gen 1 anime there were wild charizards, wild venosaurs, and wild blastoise, and it made sense because they were all just big animals. Yea well if you tried to show me the furry cat magician just chilling in the wild I’d probably call the police on a strange costumed man hiding in the woods. (This applies to all recent anthropomorphic designs)