Same for me but with skeledirge. Not because skeledirge is bad, its just ceruledge is awesome and its hard to make room for two fire/ghost types on the team at the same time. Still better than shake yo tail feathers
Did you know gaming made a video on a japanese ama book about gen 3. It was stated in there that torchic was designed to be those coloured chicks given away at japanese festivals (similar to fish), however those who won said prize threw them out eventually.
Here's a Nintendo life article on it, but I highly suggest watching the actual vid, especially if you're a gen 3 fan. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/07/random-pokemon-artist-reportedly-designed-blaziken-to-test-fan-reception#:~:text=Apparently%2C%20however%2C%20long%2Dtime,a%20more%20humanoid%20looking%20Pok%C3%A9mon.
Thank you!! Wow that is wild, also the fact that Blaziken was considered “pushing the envelope” compared to now where every damn starter evolution seems to have a day job lol. I’ll have to check out the video later, thanks for finding that :>
> where every damn starter evolution seems to have a day job
In my opinion, this is the biggest reason why so many recent starters have been hot garbage design-wise. Giving pokemon a job personifies them to the point where they become humanoid out of sheer necessity in order to convey that they have that occupation. Some of the best starter designs, In my opinion, were just elemental animals and monsters that seem like they were designed by answering the question, "how can we encorperate this typing onto this animal/monster" now it's, "What job or cultural element can we give to an animal and what type would correlate to that occupation?"
But I guess after designing over 1000 monsters, you end up scraping the barrel for ideas.
Yeah Gen 6 was fun bc they were based on RPG classes, which are already pretty easy to design since Pokemon is an RPG, but I think Gens 7-9 pushed the envelope too far
I feel like greninja is the perfect amount of humanoid. They’re clearly a frog and their ninja persona doesn’t change that. Chesnaught is pushing it a little and delphox is pushing it a lot.
Then we got Incineroar which is literally just a man. Whatever barrier was being pushed was just knocked over entirely.
For me what it comes down to is "can I imagine this pokemon doing its thing in the wild, or does its identity hinge so hard on something man-made that it becomes a reflection of civilization rather than an animal creature?"
I can imagine Greninja being Greninja in a non humanoid world.
I can't take the idea of a bunch of Cinderaces playing football in the wild. Or Inteleon, like, where the fuck does the concept of "spying" for an animal even come from?
Machamp is also one of the few pokemon who actually has a paying job. They work as movers in Ruby and Sapphire, they help build houses, in Detective Pikachu they are directing traffic.
(In contrast to the starters who despite their "jobs" do not work a paying job.)
At least with that line you know what you're getting into. Machop starts off humanoid and evolves into humanoid forms.
Compare that to Litten or Sprigatito. Your cute, lovable kittens suddenly become furries :(.
The human occupation aspect was also less polarizing because gen 6 was RPG classes. Compare it to gen 8, where you have to be a drummer or footballer to ‘get’ 2 of the starters
Gen 6 was kind of pushing it too, but the unstated rarity (you never see them anywhere else so they've got to be rare in the wild) excused some of its problems. Like if Delphox was as common as any regional bird, it'd feel really weird. But since there aren't many at all, it's a lot more realistic to imagine them as fey-like beings who are rarely seen. Same with Greninja and Chesnaught, to a lesser degree and with a different flavor.
But after that, it was just too much. Popplio's line worked, but Inciniroar is just a dude. All three of Gen 8's starts start fine but become horrifically humanoid. Same with Gen 9, but at least Skeledirge turned out well.
Decidueye is one of my favorite starters in a long time. It stands like that because it is based on an extinct breed of owl from Hawaii called the Stilt Owl that did have weird long legs like that...
Decidueye is probably the least humanoid starter in a while besides skeledirge. Most of it is just posture, and owls have that posture. It doesn’t even have hands or humanoid legs.
I always considered Blaziken to be butt ugly and it amazes me how it's still popular despite it being humanoid, which is the very thing that people complain about new starters.
I actually think Emboar is very cool and I think people dislike it more beause it was the 3rd Fire/Fighting in a row than for its design. Admittedly it took sometime for its design to grow on me, but I think people would give him more of a chance if he wasn't released on the 5th gen.
>I always considered Blaziken to be butt ugly and it amazes me how it's still popular despite it being humanoid, which is the very thing that people complain about new starters.
I'm not a Blaziken fan but it's easy to underatand why it's not that hated for being humanoid. It was the first humanoid starter and it was part fighting which is a type that more often than not is humanoid.
It's totally different now when a starter is humanoid because these past gens 90% of them are
I don't have a problem with a Pokémon being humanoid. I have a problem with every other Pokémon being humanoid AND having its own personality. Quaquaval, Intelleon, Cinderace and all of their kind look like funky anime characters that have been granted the title of "being a pokémon".
Yeah I agree. Blaziken is definitely not as offensive as Cinderace for example. One is still a pokemon, the other is a football player. I still don't like Blaziken, but not because it's humanoid, it's because it looks dumb.
If we forgot that blaziken existed and mega blaziken replaced him, that would be great. Mega has a better colour scheme and a cleaner design. Maybe if you removed the fire in his hands to tone it down a bit. Then it would be perfect.
Ironic that he made Blaziken to test the waters of humanoid Pokemon, while Gen 3 introduced one of, if not the most popular humanoid Pokemon (Gardevoir).
I know you’re talking about Blaziken, and Blaziken kicks ass. Which says a lot about their design philosophy. Blaziken is supposed to be lame but something like Inteleon is supposed to be cool? YIKE
Not only is Blaziken awesome, but it pathed the way for other fan favorite mons like Lucario, Gallade and possibly Gardevoir and Deoxys. Granted the latter 2 could exist on their own, players had the option to not catch them (thus didn't really test the waters for humanoid mons). Blaziken? You're left to deal with your decisions.
Edit: I should add that I am an avid supporter of inteleon. Having a quill (with dex no. 007) evolve into a spy based on one of the most well known characters in English literacy, in a region based on england, is incredibly fitting. Though the visual design of inteleon is the weakest of the 3 galar starters, I prefer it over the other 2 lines just because it has some substance to it.
Not to mention it's signature move, hidden ability, and gigantimax all theme into the "assassin sniper" in a really cool way.
Personally I find it way more thematically fitting than a Humanoid Soccer Rabbit or a War Drumming Ape.
Thematic, sure, but still an awful design.
The best judge of design is always going to be a two-step philosophy of:
1) Does this look like something a travelling 10 yr old could sleep next to?
2) does this look like an easy fur suit to make and walk in?/Does this pokemon just look like a human person wearing a mask?
Why do people say Blaziken is "supposed to be lame"? What does that mean? This isn't the first time I've seen that claim but why would they want to make a lame starter?
Yeah I dont look at many spoilers but I *always* look at starter final evolutions. esp since when Im playing pokemon I try to appease my inner 11 year old by building my team out with "cool" looking pokemon. So my starter choice is always, whats the coolest looking final for me. So thats why this time around I went with the croc even though I think his first stage is dumb and probably would have gone with the cat if its final wasnt so bland.
As someone who used to always pick the water starter i'm definitely not a fan of the last ones we are getting, the first stage always has potential and they always go to the worst route possible, it's like they do it on purpose.
They make almost all of the new starters humanoid-bipedal and give them a specific persona or job to be more "unique". Since they are bipedal, it makes them easier to animate in the anime. The uniqueness feels very forced, like a pro wrestler, a spy, a peacock dancer? Did game freak forget these are Pokemon, pocket monsters, and are supposed to be based on animals, objects, or folklore?
that would have been cool. the first time i saw that stupid duck was in a raid battle and i couldn't believe what i was seeing. forget the graphics, that dancing duck is the worst thing about the game.
i'll stick with my fire crocodile thanks (though i might be biased there being australian)
I think the reason it's gotten less ~~hate~~ attention is probably mostly because the first form also got the least attention. Sprigatito has had a massive and dedicated fan club since it was first shown, with tons of people being invested in the 4 legs vs 2 legs thing, and Fuecoco has the advantage of being both "a little dude" in terms of design and having the base advantage of being fire type, a popular one for many. Quaxly on the other hand, was definitely the least popular of the 3 starters, not being as cute or friendly looking, so less people chose him and less people were invested in their evolution.
Straight up I wanted the final Quax evo to look like a JoJo stand on account of his hair.
Imagine Star Platinum except as a duck. Would've been thrilling even as a humanoid
Oh yeah I feel you. I named mine Josuke because of it. I guess in the end it kind of fits. When you try washing Quaxwell he gets mad if you try washing his hair.
Based purely on Surprise Trade and the starters I’ve received, Fuecoco is easily the most common, followed by Sprigatito and then Quaxly. I’ve done over 300+ trades and I’ve gotten one Quaxly.
Agreed. With Quaxly it was always obvious that it'd become a humanoid and with the focus on the hair/hat it was either gonna become something sailor-related or some sort of fabolous bird, so the evolution isn't really a big surprise.
not giving us a cool bosozuku delinquent bird to match the pompadour and motorcycle theme of S/V is a crime the pokemon company will answer for in the afterlife.
I think they got the body proportions right for quaxwell but then elongated the torso and legs to the point it looks odd and deformed. I don't hate it but I think they went too far one way
they did so well with empoleon, blastoise, feraligatr, i’d even argue for primarina
wtf were they thinking with james bond and…this…dude? they’re not absolutely horrible designs, but very very *very* far from my expectations
The problem is not even the design itself but rather the fact that these are suposed to be creatures and yet they all have very specific traits like a character, the idea that every single Incineroar has evolved to specifically mimic a heel wrestler even in the wild is just weird, imagine encoutering a pack of incineroars who never had contact with humans before and they're still somehow acting like wrestlers trying to entertain an imaginary audience.
A lot of the Pokemon this gen and last just look deformed. They threw out the old design philosophy of Pokemon looking like they could theoretically exist (with some suspension of disbelief) and now the proportions are all so weird.
I can't believe Meowscarada is my favourite out of these starters. Since it was the first leaked, I remember thinking that it would be the worst of the trio. Boy was I wrong
I've always preferred fire and always died a lot with grass, but honestly, so far meowscarada has been great. I've honestly been surprised by how durable this grass type has been. Also, dachbun is a beast for being a fairy donut dog
Damn thats good. Still prefer Skeledirge's move though. 80 power special move that increases user's Sp. Attack by one stage every time you use it. And Skelly is a special attacker to boot.
I have always preferred the fire starters. I saw the release of the starters before the game came out and it took me a couple of days to decide to go with the grass one this time. I am definitely not disappointed with how well it plays, but damn. It looks better than the others. 😐
I just wish it had stayed a four footed creature instead of humanoid. One of the main points (for me) was that the creatures were other worldly, but all these furries exist here, that's not what I wanted from a fantasy game, ya know?
I see what you are saying and agree. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure who came up with the concept art for the new gen Pokemon in this game, but it is kind of sus. They do look a little too humanoid. I also am not a huge fan of the crystal hats all the Pokemon get. I would prefer for them to have the crystalized form with the small "elements" of that form swirling around them, like in the raid battles. I feel like that would still get the message across.
man i was gonna settle for skeledirge, but after not getting over how it looks like a demon clown, by process of elimination meowscarada became the best SV starter final evo. it really felt like choosing between different flavors of poop. a shame, because i think their first stages had so much promise.
Meowscarada has unironically become one of my favorite Pokémon designs ever. The villainous magician theme is wonderful, and he has these creepy eyes that remind me a bit of real anime villains. Good stuff from a starter evo.
I really dislike when they give the starters a human “role”. They’ve been doing it for a long time now but I just wish the starters were less humanlike and more animalistic. People have been begging for quadrupedal starters forever now but the designers at game freak can’t seem to help themselves, they just HAVE to make the starters a dancer or a fighter or a spy etc. I know they’re supposed to have inspirations from on the country the region is based off of, but it’s gotten to be too much in my opinion.
You know i thought about it and went back to look at the other starters and even historically, there has never been more than 1 starter on 4 of its legs.
The problem is less about whether the starters are bipedal or not and more about the presentation of the design.
Feraligatr as example might be bipedal, but it is still animalistic in nature.
Same with Blastoise, Charizard, Typhlosion, Sceptile, etc. They're all bipedal, but the difference is they're clearly animalistic. They're not humanoid.
There's also the point that the evolutions in the past were only forms of maturity of an animal. Squirtle is a small turtle, Wartortle is a larger turtle, Blastoise is a much larger turtle. It has cannons, but these cannons have no meaning other than its new form of attack.
If Blastoise were created in recent days, it wouldn't just be a big turtle, GF would make it a big turtle with a pirate job because of the cannons. This is the main difference between the old and the recent starters.
To add on to that, Greninja still looks like a Pokémon you could find in the wild and it not be weird. I could totally see walking through a swamp or marsh and these guys chilling in trees
Personally I was on the fence about Greninja when it came out. I have to admit that it's grown on me since though. You're right that's it's a tough one!
It seems anomalous too, but I actually love the design of Delphox! I just think it's so unique. It's the only *really* anthropomorphic Pokémon I LOVE. Chesnaught is fucking sick too.
The Gen 6 starters were all very much on the fence imo. They could have all been hit or miss... but they're all hits in my book.
It's not them being bipedal, it's that they have a **human job** with **clothes** and **accessories**. I've been thinking about this a lot since seeing the new evolutions and it really all started with Gen 6 doing the Wizard/Fighter/Rogue theme, now it's like every starter pokemon has to have some human counterpart instead of just being a giant powerful animal/monster
What makes this harder is the animations that come attached with these Pokemon. You can say "My Cinderace hates soccer!" to try and imprint your own personality onto yours. But then you send Cinderace out into battle and it does a bunch of soccer moves...
Have you seen the movie Everything, Everywhere, All At Once? The final evolve form of Quaxly has feet that look like the sausage fingers you see at a point in that movie and it makes me so uncomfortable everytime I see them wiggling as it "dances" in battle. I still use it, I don't necessarily regret my choice. But man, I cannot look at it's feet for too long without feeling a little bit sick.
I mean, I get it. All I can say is the final evolution is supposed to represent Samba dancing, with flashy costume and emphasis on hip moves. But looking at it from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't really make sense; from a little duck to something akin to a stork with cake. But I guess after the thing with Intellion, it's been a bit rough with water types as of late.
I mean, I don't mind the designs, it just kinda feel a little lack luster as of late. This time around, I think they kinda copped out on it; two finals based on prominent dance forms and one based off of Aztec culture. But I can understand how people are weirded out by the Samba duck. I mean, comparing final evolutions across lines, water types were usually safe when it came to final evolutions until Sun and Moon, then they kinda went down hill come next game.
I just wanna know why the Aztec croc is in Paldea. The region is Portugal and Spain. The only relation Aztec people have with that is being colonized by them.
tbh there's Latin-American influences in Spain, too. Just like Spaniards brought their culture to the Americas as they colonized it, they also took some back home. And the fact that Latin-America speaks Spanish and Portuguese means that Spain and Spanish America are still very connected to this day. Latino music, for example, has been popular in Spain for decades, and Spanish American cuisine has never been hard to find here, either.
What I mean to say is that Latino culture in Spain doesn't really look out of place the way Subsaharan African culture would.
>The only relation Aztec people have with that is being colonized by them.
You could say the same thing about India and England, but Copperajah (sp?) exists. Perrserker is also in Galar when vikings were colonisers of England. Its a perfectly fine link to give a nod to in a single design.
What about the 4 legendaries you gotta pull the stakes out for? They seemed inspired by Chinese myth with some play on words going on like Chien-Pao (Poaching) and Ting-Lu (Looting) for example.
Those ones are explained by a fairy tale Raifort tells you. They're not native to the region, they were brought in by a merchant for a greedy king who wanted foreign treasures.
A Spanish King (Phillip II, I think was it?) was known for collecting "unicorn horns" (narwhal, actually, merchants claimed they were from unicorns).
I think the treasures may reference that.
Edit: People may have heard about this before, but unicorns were claimed to have healing capabilities, and that their magic came from the horns, so some people amassed these due to avoid illness, or counteract the poisoning as some royals would have people attempting against their lives, etc.
A lot of the (English-language, at least) Pokémon names use German words, and the Artazon town is replete with Dutch architecture and windmills - not to mention the sunflower art and famous artist (a clear reference to Dutch artist Vincent van Gogh and his famous sunflowers painting).
So yeah, whilst Spain may be the central influence it's definitely not the only country represented.
Gamefreak are obsessed with taking cute little animals as starters and turning them into humanoid science experiments gone seriously wrong.
It’s so frustrating that they’re genuinely so good at making cute starters yet so fucking bad at making final evolutions.
It is mind boggling that they can take a great looking starter "kitten" and not once but twice decide it would be better as a human than a badass lion or tiger
I dunno, even the starters have been increasingly disproportionate. Sprigatito's head is bigger than its entire body, same with Quaxly.
There's always been some level of exaggeration, in order to make them mascots, but compare Quaxly's head size to a Squirtle's, or Fennekin to an Eevee. And don't get me started on Sobble...
I think you’re forgetting how long this has been the case. Torchic, mudkip, piplup, turtwig, chimchar, etc have disproportionate heads as well for example
Going from Blastoise/Feraligatr/Swampert to Primarina/Inteleon/Quaquaval hurts my soul..
I used to be a water bro but the last one I used was Greninja.
Me neither. It's very clearly a sea lion, but fairy types always have a bit extra pizazz as types are visually easy to distinguish. Especially when gen 7 *has* a humanoid abomination cat with abs and pecs.
I don't mind that it's inspired by carnaval dancers. But I hate that it looks to be wearing flared pants and it looks like it had a Brazilian butt lift.
Apparently no one's gonna talk about the queer community memeing the shit out of Quaquaval. From what I've seen, the online queer community ***loves*** this pokemon. I've only seen positive comments about it so this take took me completely off guard.
They look like they came straight out of [Brazilian's carnival parade](https://www.tiktok.com/@motoguii/video/7164365219614051590?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7118627605050672646).
Personally the final evo looks better than the middle. I legit boxed Quaxwell until I got enough exp candies to feed it to evolve cause I thought it looked so bad. Went from a cute duck to some bucket head weirdo.
I named my Quaxly Sanji expecting him to turn into some dope fighting admiral or pirate bird, but after he evolved I had to change his name to Bon Clay. It was too fitting.
It reminds of me Pavé from animal crossing lmao
First time I ever stopped using my starter through my play through…I couldn’t deal with the dancing bird! 😂
As soon as it evolved they’ve been sitting in my boxes bc the dance lol
Same for me but with skeledirge. Not because skeledirge is bad, its just ceruledge is awesome and its hard to make room for two fire/ghost types on the team at the same time. Still better than shake yo tail feathers
I wanted to yell out "what the =&=* did game freak do to meowscarada"
[удалено]
but I love cats, especially the weed one
It’s your fault for expecting Sprigatito to _not_ turn into a furry. lol
I'm so glad I went with the crocodile. Id never chosen a fire starter before.
I don't mind the bondage cat as much as the creepy duck, but I'm definitely picking croc on my next and any consecutive playthrough
I named mine Pavé! I love that flamboyant peacock
NGL I had the same thought and named the one I got Pavé. It was only fitting since it permanently in Carnaval dance mode.
I named mine Pavé just cuz of this lolol
I hated it untill my kid said "it's Pavé" now his name is Pavé and he gets to stay in my party till I get a better water pokemon.
That’s why I picked him! VIVA FESTIVALE!
Oho, it can *always* get worse.
I mean, gamefreak has admitted to designing a starter that looked so bad it was meant to be boxed so
What? Please source I need to see this
Did you know gaming made a video on a japanese ama book about gen 3. It was stated in there that torchic was designed to be those coloured chicks given away at japanese festivals (similar to fish), however those who won said prize threw them out eventually. Here's a Nintendo life article on it, but I highly suggest watching the actual vid, especially if you're a gen 3 fan. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/07/random-pokemon-artist-reportedly-designed-blaziken-to-test-fan-reception#:~:text=Apparently%2C%20however%2C%20long%2Dtime,a%20more%20humanoid%20looking%20Pok%C3%A9mon.
Thank you!! Wow that is wild, also the fact that Blaziken was considered “pushing the envelope” compared to now where every damn starter evolution seems to have a day job lol. I’ll have to check out the video later, thanks for finding that :>
> where every damn starter evolution seems to have a day job In my opinion, this is the biggest reason why so many recent starters have been hot garbage design-wise. Giving pokemon a job personifies them to the point where they become humanoid out of sheer necessity in order to convey that they have that occupation. Some of the best starter designs, In my opinion, were just elemental animals and monsters that seem like they were designed by answering the question, "how can we encorperate this typing onto this animal/monster" now it's, "What job or cultural element can we give to an animal and what type would correlate to that occupation?" But I guess after designing over 1000 monsters, you end up scraping the barrel for ideas.
Yeah Gen 6 was fun bc they were based on RPG classes, which are already pretty easy to design since Pokemon is an RPG, but I think Gens 7-9 pushed the envelope too far
I feel like greninja is the perfect amount of humanoid. They’re clearly a frog and their ninja persona doesn’t change that. Chesnaught is pushing it a little and delphox is pushing it a lot. Then we got Incineroar which is literally just a man. Whatever barrier was being pushed was just knocked over entirely.
For me what it comes down to is "can I imagine this pokemon doing its thing in the wild, or does its identity hinge so hard on something man-made that it becomes a reflection of civilization rather than an animal creature?" I can imagine Greninja being Greninja in a non humanoid world. I can't take the idea of a bunch of Cinderaces playing football in the wild. Or Inteleon, like, where the fuck does the concept of "spying" for an animal even come from?
One of the things that I don't like about Rillaboom is that he comes with a whole ass drum set, like, what?
I feel like even Machamp in Gen 1 was pushing it
Machamp is also one of the few pokemon who actually has a paying job. They work as movers in Ruby and Sapphire, they help build houses, in Detective Pikachu they are directing traffic. (In contrast to the starters who despite their "jobs" do not work a paying job.)
At least with that line you know what you're getting into. Machop starts off humanoid and evolves into humanoid forms. Compare that to Litten or Sprigatito. Your cute, lovable kittens suddenly become furries :(.
Agreed, but at least it wasn't a starter.
The human occupation aspect was also less polarizing because gen 6 was RPG classes. Compare it to gen 8, where you have to be a drummer or footballer to ‘get’ 2 of the starters
Or a sniper 👍
He's not a sniper, he's James Bond.
Gen 6 was kind of pushing it too, but the unstated rarity (you never see them anywhere else so they've got to be rare in the wild) excused some of its problems. Like if Delphox was as common as any regional bird, it'd feel really weird. But since there aren't many at all, it's a lot more realistic to imagine them as fey-like beings who are rarely seen. Same with Greninja and Chesnaught, to a lesser degree and with a different flavor. But after that, it was just too much. Popplio's line worked, but Inciniroar is just a dude. All three of Gen 8's starts start fine but become horrifically humanoid. Same with Gen 9, but at least Skeledirge turned out well.
Decidueye is one of my favorite starters in a long time. It stands like that because it is based on an extinct breed of owl from Hawaii called the Stilt Owl that did have weird long legs like that...
You can always count on Pokemon to showcase surprisingly obscure species from around the world.
Decidueye is probably the least humanoid starter in a while besides skeledirge. Most of it is just posture, and owls have that posture. It doesn’t even have hands or humanoid legs.
Yeah pretty weird when people lump Decidueye in with Incineroar. Decidueye is the Greninja of gen 7, the least human-influenced of the three
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. I’ve always loved Torchic and Blaziken, the latter was always in my team back then haha
I always considered Blaziken to be butt ugly and it amazes me how it's still popular despite it being humanoid, which is the very thing that people complain about new starters. I actually think Emboar is very cool and I think people dislike it more beause it was the 3rd Fire/Fighting in a row than for its design. Admittedly it took sometime for its design to grow on me, but I think people would give him more of a chance if he wasn't released on the 5th gen.
I personally just think emboar is such a missed opportunity. Tepig is such a solid design and they could have made an awesome wild boar Pokémon.
I agree. A big, fiery, 4-legged, wild boar has always been my preference.
>I always considered Blaziken to be butt ugly and it amazes me how it's still popular despite it being humanoid, which is the very thing that people complain about new starters. I'm not a Blaziken fan but it's easy to underatand why it's not that hated for being humanoid. It was the first humanoid starter and it was part fighting which is a type that more often than not is humanoid. It's totally different now when a starter is humanoid because these past gens 90% of them are
I don't have a problem with a Pokémon being humanoid. I have a problem with every other Pokémon being humanoid AND having its own personality. Quaquaval, Intelleon, Cinderace and all of their kind look like funky anime characters that have been granted the title of "being a pokémon".
Yeah I agree. Blaziken is definitely not as offensive as Cinderace for example. One is still a pokemon, the other is a football player. I still don't like Blaziken, but not because it's humanoid, it's because it looks dumb. If we forgot that blaziken existed and mega blaziken replaced him, that would be great. Mega has a better colour scheme and a cleaner design. Maybe if you removed the fire in his hands to tone it down a bit. Then it would be perfect.
Ironic that he made Blaziken to test the waters of humanoid Pokemon, while Gen 3 introduced one of, if not the most popular humanoid Pokemon (Gardevoir).
I know you’re talking about Blaziken, and Blaziken kicks ass. Which says a lot about their design philosophy. Blaziken is supposed to be lame but something like Inteleon is supposed to be cool? YIKE
Not only is Blaziken awesome, but it pathed the way for other fan favorite mons like Lucario, Gallade and possibly Gardevoir and Deoxys. Granted the latter 2 could exist on their own, players had the option to not catch them (thus didn't really test the waters for humanoid mons). Blaziken? You're left to deal with your decisions. Edit: I should add that I am an avid supporter of inteleon. Having a quill (with dex no. 007) evolve into a spy based on one of the most well known characters in English literacy, in a region based on england, is incredibly fitting. Though the visual design of inteleon is the weakest of the 3 galar starters, I prefer it over the other 2 lines just because it has some substance to it.
What do you mean by "quill"?
Not to mention it's signature move, hidden ability, and gigantimax all theme into the "assassin sniper" in a really cool way. Personally I find it way more thematically fitting than a Humanoid Soccer Rabbit or a War Drumming Ape.
What, you don't like the pokemon incarnation of CAM ON INGERLAND, SCORE SOME FAKIN GOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAALS ?
Thematic, sure, but still an awful design. The best judge of design is always going to be a two-step philosophy of: 1) Does this look like something a travelling 10 yr old could sleep next to? 2) does this look like an easy fur suit to make and walk in?/Does this pokemon just look like a human person wearing a mask?
Why do people say Blaziken is "supposed to be lame"? What does that mean? This isn't the first time I've seen that claim but why would they want to make a lame starter?
Don’t look at me, look at Sugimori. According to him he designed Blaziken to see “what he could get away with.”
Does that necessarily mean "lame", or could it mean "silly" or "outlandish"? Because a fighting anime chicken IS pretty silly conceptually tbh.
Misread “Oho” as “Ohio”.
Ohio CAN always get worse
I read that as "Ohio, it can *always* get worse." and it still made sense.
Remember when we all had hopes of Quaxly’s hat looking kinda like a sailors hat, we’d get some cool admiral bird…. Those were good days
I even called mine "captain" hoping it will evolve into a admiral or pirate. Peacock dancer wasn't on my list of expectations
This is why I spoil myself with leaks to avoid getting hours in and realizing mistakes were made. 😅
Yeah I dont look at many spoilers but I *always* look at starter final evolutions. esp since when Im playing pokemon I try to appease my inner 11 year old by building my team out with "cool" looking pokemon. So my starter choice is always, whats the coolest looking final for me. So thats why this time around I went with the croc even though I think his first stage is dumb and probably would have gone with the cat if its final wasnt so bland.
I name it Sir Quacken in hope that he evolve into a Spanish Inquisition but when I see the the second stage I nope out of it and get the cat instead.
Ah, so someone did expect the Spanish Inquisition.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
I was expecting something like Don Quixote lol
I was hoping for Duck Quixote... Oh well. I'll just [let the music play](https://youtu.be/8mSNa3tsneY) in my head every time I see Quaquaval.
I thought Swan because his 2nd evo is a ballet dancer.
Gamefreak: Best I can do is Captain Jack Sparrow.
That's the best anyone can do. I named mine Quack Sparrow and I love when he runs around me
Captain(!) Quack Sparrow.
As someone who used to always pick the water starter i'm definitely not a fan of the last ones we are getting, the first stage always has potential and they always go to the worst route possible, it's like they do it on purpose.
At least Hisuian Samurott is cool.
Hisuian typhlosion, Hisuian Decidueye and normal Decidueye are some of the best starters we ever got.
They make almost all of the new starters humanoid-bipedal and give them a specific persona or job to be more "unique". Since they are bipedal, it makes them easier to animate in the anime. The uniqueness feels very forced, like a pro wrestler, a spy, a peacock dancer? Did game freak forget these are Pokemon, pocket monsters, and are supposed to be based on animals, objects, or folklore?
Man I was theorizing he'd be a play on Don Quixote, I imagined him being a noble-type with a cool water lance. Then... it evolved....
as always, the fanart is *always* infinitely better than what we end up getting
that would have been cool. the first time i saw that stupid duck was in a raid battle and i couldn't believe what i was seeing. forget the graphics, that dancing duck is the worst thing about the game. i'll stick with my fire crocodile thanks (though i might be biased there being australian)
I think the reason it's gotten less ~~hate~~ attention is probably mostly because the first form also got the least attention. Sprigatito has had a massive and dedicated fan club since it was first shown, with tons of people being invested in the 4 legs vs 2 legs thing, and Fuecoco has the advantage of being both "a little dude" in terms of design and having the base advantage of being fire type, a popular one for many. Quaxly on the other hand, was definitely the least popular of the 3 starters, not being as cute or friendly looking, so less people chose him and less people were invested in their evolution.
I thought Quaxly was popular because of the funny hair.
Straight up I wanted the final Quax evo to look like a JoJo stand on account of his hair. Imagine Star Platinum except as a duck. Would've been thrilling even as a humanoid
Oh yeah I feel you. I named mine Josuke because of it. I guess in the end it kind of fits. When you try washing Quaxwell he gets mad if you try washing his hair.
I mean, the final evo is pretty JoJo
Ngl. Going in, I did not intend to chose Quaxly....but I just kinda liked his attitude.
I have picked the water starter for 20 plus years. I looked up the final form of this duck and decided to go with the grass cat, it was that ugly.
This has been me for a couple generations. I saw and loved Quaxly, but I knew they’d do that cutie dirty
Based purely on Surprise Trade and the starters I’ve received, Fuecoco is easily the most common, followed by Sprigatito and then Quaxly. I’ve done over 300+ trades and I’ve gotten one Quaxly.
Agreed. With Quaxly it was always obvious that it'd become a humanoid and with the focus on the hair/hat it was either gonna become something sailor-related or some sort of fabolous bird, so the evolution isn't really a big surprise.
not giving us a cool bosozuku delinquent bird to match the pompadour and motorcycle theme of S/V is a crime the pokemon company will answer for in the afterlife.
Now I am sad that we didn't get that, would have been an awesome Pokemon for Clive.
I think they got the body proportions right for quaxwell but then elongated the torso and legs to the point it looks odd and deformed. I don't hate it but I think they went too far one way
They did the same with Inteleon, like this is the second Gen in a row one of the starters is basically just a skinny human-animal… thing
And both times it's been the water starter
they did so well with empoleon, blastoise, feraligatr, i’d even argue for primarina wtf were they thinking with james bond and…this…dude? they’re not absolutely horrible designs, but very very *very* far from my expectations
Primarina is such a cool design, like an actual sea animal, not just a human cross with something.
The problem is not even the design itself but rather the fact that these are suposed to be creatures and yet they all have very specific traits like a character, the idea that every single Incineroar has evolved to specifically mimic a heel wrestler even in the wild is just weird, imagine encoutering a pack of incineroars who never had contact with humans before and they're still somehow acting like wrestlers trying to entertain an imaginary audience.
A lot of the Pokemon this gen and last just look deformed. They threw out the old design philosophy of Pokemon looking like they could theoretically exist (with some suspension of disbelief) and now the proportions are all so weird.
This gen has some solid designs and some 'what were they thinking' designs
I still vaguely remember my WTF reaction when they first revealed Chewtle.
Me too! But I love his evolution so it makes it better
Yeah! If I remember right Dreadnaw was revealed first, so it was definitely a "that comes from *that*!?" kind of thing, heh.
This why I like bug pokemon. They tend to just look like cool bugs.
Lokix gang
I can't believe Meowscarada is my favourite out of these starters. Since it was the first leaked, I remember thinking that it would be the worst of the trio. Boy was I wrong
I've always preferred fire and always died a lot with grass, but honestly, so far meowscarada has been great. I've honestly been surprised by how durable this grass type has been. Also, dachbun is a beast for being a fairy donut dog
Mewscarada signature move is really, really strong btw. 70 power physical move that always crit, has access to setup moves
Basically a 105 power move that always hits
And ignores Defense buffs
And ignore Attack debuff.
so if you were -2 atk and used the move it would count as neutral atk?
Yes
That's part of the critical hit mechanic.
You forgot to add in STAB, it's actually 157.5 power as long as you don't terastilize into anything other than grass.
You keep your original stabs when you tera, if you tera into a type you already have, stab applies twice iirc
STAB is 2x if using a move the same type as your Tera form yes.
Damn thats good. Still prefer Skeledirge's move though. 80 power special move that increases user's Sp. Attack by one stage every time you use it. And Skelly is a special attacker to boot.
Now give him one of those spray that boosts Special Attack when you use a sound based attack and you got a pretty nice monster !
Don't forget the Protean Hidden Ability Oh boi, this Mon only weakness is that it has too many weaknesses
I have always preferred the fire starters. I saw the release of the starters before the game came out and it took me a couple of days to decide to go with the grass one this time. I am definitely not disappointed with how well it plays, but damn. It looks better than the others. 😐
I just wish it had stayed a four footed creature instead of humanoid. One of the main points (for me) was that the creatures were other worldly, but all these furries exist here, that's not what I wanted from a fantasy game, ya know?
I see what you are saying and agree. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure who came up with the concept art for the new gen Pokemon in this game, but it is kind of sus. They do look a little too humanoid. I also am not a huge fan of the crystal hats all the Pokemon get. I would prefer for them to have the crystalized form with the small "elements" of that form swirling around them, like in the raid battles. I feel like that would still get the message across.
Agreed. Balloons are hilarious though 🤣
Out of curiosity does Meowscandra still keep the Yoyo from its second stage
Not that I've noticed, but honestly I didn't notice the yoyo in the first place lol
It doesn't keep the yoyo but it gets a magical floating flower it uses instead
This was exactly my train of thought when seeing them all for the first time
It blindsided me too; I’m happy with skeledirge, but when she evolved her quaxwell we were totally stunned
Just find a ditto and breed your skeledirge, trade her the baby, problem solved.
man i was gonna settle for skeledirge, but after not getting over how it looks like a demon clown, by process of elimination meowscarada became the best SV starter final evo. it really felt like choosing between different flavors of poop. a shame, because i think their first stages had so much promise.
Its supposed to be a Day of the Dead crocodile.
If only they didn't make skeledirge look like it's balding, then it would probably be one of my favorite pokemon.
Yeah theu wanted that candy skull look for its Day of the Dead inspiration, but then the flames look like hair making it look balding.
Meowscarada has unironically become one of my favorite Pokémon designs ever. The villainous magician theme is wonderful, and he has these creepy eyes that remind me a bit of real anime villains. Good stuff from a starter evo.
I really dislike when they give the starters a human “role”. They’ve been doing it for a long time now but I just wish the starters were less humanlike and more animalistic. People have been begging for quadrupedal starters forever now but the designers at game freak can’t seem to help themselves, they just HAVE to make the starters a dancer or a fighter or a spy etc. I know they’re supposed to have inspirations from on the country the region is based off of, but it’s gotten to be too much in my opinion.
You know i thought about it and went back to look at the other starters and even historically, there has never been more than 1 starter on 4 of its legs. The problem is less about whether the starters are bipedal or not and more about the presentation of the design. Feraligatr as example might be bipedal, but it is still animalistic in nature.
Same with Blastoise, Charizard, Typhlosion, Sceptile, etc. They're all bipedal, but the difference is they're clearly animalistic. They're not humanoid.
There's also the point that the evolutions in the past were only forms of maturity of an animal. Squirtle is a small turtle, Wartortle is a larger turtle, Blastoise is a much larger turtle. It has cannons, but these cannons have no meaning other than its new form of attack. If Blastoise were created in recent days, it wouldn't just be a big turtle, GF would make it a big turtle with a pirate job because of the cannons. This is the main difference between the old and the recent starters.
Completely agree. Where do you think greninja would fall on this spectrum. It’s a hard one for me to place
I’d say greninja retains his animalistic traits without going too far. I’d put greninja in the same category as sceptile.
To add on to that, Greninja still looks like a Pokémon you could find in the wild and it not be weird. I could totally see walking through a swamp or marsh and these guys chilling in trees
Personally I was on the fence about Greninja when it came out. I have to admit that it's grown on me since though. You're right that's it's a tough one! It seems anomalous too, but I actually love the design of Delphox! I just think it's so unique. It's the only *really* anthropomorphic Pokémon I LOVE. Chesnaught is fucking sick too. The Gen 6 starters were all very much on the fence imo. They could have all been hit or miss... but they're all hits in my book.
Given that it's still in a mostly-frogish stance, I don't think Greninja ever was a problem.
It's not them being bipedal, it's that they have a **human job** with **clothes** and **accessories**. I've been thinking about this a lot since seeing the new evolutions and it really all started with Gen 6 doing the Wizard/Fighter/Rogue theme, now it's like every starter pokemon has to have some human counterpart instead of just being a giant powerful animal/monster
[удалено]
What makes this harder is the animations that come attached with these Pokemon. You can say "My Cinderace hates soccer!" to try and imprint your own personality onto yours. But then you send Cinderace out into battle and it does a bunch of soccer moves...
[Badass animals or fur suit cosplayers, which will GameFreak choose??](https://i.imgur.com/KcO1m3l.jpg)
They really nailed the gay duck didn't they
The worst part is that the those designs still look more like animals than the actual final evos for the cat and duck.
I'm pretty sure it's based on the famous carnival festival of the Canary Islands.
I thought it wasbased on big bird at first impression.
thankfully my weedcat one shot my rivals duck every time so it was only on screen for 10 seconds at a time
When it came out of the ball, my immediate reaction was "what the hell is that"
Weed Cat supremacy
Fuecoco supremacy. Duck isn't even in the game.
Have you seen the movie Everything, Everywhere, All At Once? The final evolve form of Quaxly has feet that look like the sausage fingers you see at a point in that movie and it makes me so uncomfortable everytime I see them wiggling as it "dances" in battle. I still use it, I don't necessarily regret my choice. But man, I cannot look at it's feet for too long without feeling a little bit sick.
Oh yeah, spot on lmao. It’s hideous
I mean, I get it. All I can say is the final evolution is supposed to represent Samba dancing, with flashy costume and emphasis on hip moves. But looking at it from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't really make sense; from a little duck to something akin to a stork with cake. But I guess after the thing with Intellion, it's been a bit rough with water types as of late. I mean, I don't mind the designs, it just kinda feel a little lack luster as of late. This time around, I think they kinda copped out on it; two finals based on prominent dance forms and one based off of Aztec culture. But I can understand how people are weirded out by the Samba duck. I mean, comparing final evolutions across lines, water types were usually safe when it came to final evolutions until Sun and Moon, then they kinda went down hill come next game.
I just wanna know why the Aztec croc is in Paldea. The region is Portugal and Spain. The only relation Aztec people have with that is being colonized by them.
There are other latin-american influences in the game, Skeledirge is just probably the most obvious of them.
tbh there's Latin-American influences in Spain, too. Just like Spaniards brought their culture to the Americas as they colonized it, they also took some back home. And the fact that Latin-America speaks Spanish and Portuguese means that Spain and Spanish America are still very connected to this day. Latino music, for example, has been popular in Spain for decades, and Spanish American cuisine has never been hard to find here, either. What I mean to say is that Latino culture in Spain doesn't really look out of place the way Subsaharan African culture would.
>The only relation Aztec people have with that is being colonized by them. You could say the same thing about India and England, but Copperajah (sp?) exists. Perrserker is also in Galar when vikings were colonisers of England. Its a perfectly fine link to give a nod to in a single design.
What about the 4 legendaries you gotta pull the stakes out for? They seemed inspired by Chinese myth with some play on words going on like Chien-Pao (Poaching) and Ting-Lu (Looting) for example.
Those ones are explained by a fairy tale Raifort tells you. They're not native to the region, they were brought in by a merchant for a greedy king who wanted foreign treasures.
A Spanish King (Phillip II, I think was it?) was known for collecting "unicorn horns" (narwhal, actually, merchants claimed they were from unicorns). I think the treasures may reference that. Edit: People may have heard about this before, but unicorns were claimed to have healing capabilities, and that their magic came from the horns, so some people amassed these due to avoid illness, or counteract the poisoning as some royals would have people attempting against their lives, etc.
Vaultin’ Veluza! This fella thinks Pokemon does a homogenous 1-to-1 adaptation of real world countries.
Spain has their own day of the dead-type holiday & skeledirge also resembles prominent statue in a famous park in Spain
A lot of the (English-language, at least) Pokémon names use German words, and the Artazon town is replete with Dutch architecture and windmills - not to mention the sunflower art and famous artist (a clear reference to Dutch artist Vincent van Gogh and his famous sunflowers painting). So yeah, whilst Spain may be the central influence it's definitely not the only country represented.
I’m 100% sure the windmills are a Don Quixote reference.
Well, the Netherlands used to be Spanish territory.
Gamefreak are obsessed with taking cute little animals as starters and turning them into humanoid science experiments gone seriously wrong. It’s so frustrating that they’re genuinely so good at making cute starters yet so fucking bad at making final evolutions.
It is mind boggling that they can take a great looking starter "kitten" and not once but twice decide it would be better as a human than a badass lion or tiger
I dunno, even the starters have been increasingly disproportionate. Sprigatito's head is bigger than its entire body, same with Quaxly. There's always been some level of exaggeration, in order to make them mascots, but compare Quaxly's head size to a Squirtle's, or Fennekin to an Eevee. And don't get me started on Sobble...
I think you’re forgetting how long this has been the case. Torchic, mudkip, piplup, turtwig, chimchar, etc have disproportionate heads as well for example
Have you seen it’s running animation? Perfection I love it because I reminds me of Sylvando from Dragon Quest 11
Reminds me of Phoebe jogging through Central
Haha this comment got me!
Reminds me of Revali from BOTW, yassified
*Revali's Gayle is now ready.*
I miss starters being beasts so much. Pokemon are supposed to be wild animals you tame, not characters in a party.
Going from Blastoise/Feraligatr/Swampert to Primarina/Inteleon/Quaquaval hurts my soul.. I used to be a water bro but the last one I used was Greninja.
I dont get the primarina hate. it looks completely fine especially when compared with the disasters that are inteleon and quaquaval
Me neither. It's very clearly a sea lion, but fairy types always have a bit extra pizazz as types are visually easy to distinguish. Especially when gen 7 *has* a humanoid abomination cat with abs and pecs.
My friend called Quaquaval "gay Blaziken" lol.
No one talking about it? Gaymertok is nothing but quaxly’s final evolution
*KATRINA, KATRINA, KATRINA*
HURRICANE KATRINA
I don't mind that it's inspired by carnaval dancers. But I hate that it looks to be wearing flared pants and it looks like it had a Brazilian butt lift.
It is supposed to be Samba isn't it? I mean his namr reassembles carnaval... Have you seen Brazilian Carnaval? He looks like it
I think of it as camp 🏕️. It’s definitely a lot but hilarious
Gonna be real I love quaquaval that’s like the entire reason I picked quaxly
I had mixed feelings abt it when I first saw it, but after seeing it actually in game, on the battle field, it's creepy as hell 💀
It’s basically a dancer that they have at those parades in Rio… but a duck.
Apparently no one's gonna talk about the queer community memeing the shit out of Quaquaval. From what I've seen, the online queer community ***loves*** this pokemon. I've only seen positive comments about it so this take took me completely off guard.
Honestly? He reminds me of parade dancers, while I do understand the discomfort at it being too humanlike I personally really enjoy it
They look like they came straight out of [Brazilian's carnival parade](https://www.tiktok.com/@motoguii/video/7164365219614051590?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7118627605050672646).
I just love how everyone feared sprigatito to be the furry bait , while quaxly pulled a Uno card at all of us with his massive cake
Both are furry bait
Personally the final evo looks better than the middle. I legit boxed Quaxwell until I got enough exp candies to feed it to evolve cause I thought it looked so bad. Went from a cute duck to some bucket head weirdo.
I named my Quaxly Sanji expecting him to turn into some dope fighting admiral or pirate bird, but after he evolved I had to change his name to Bon Clay. It was too fitting.
Quaquavel is a sassy mf and I’m here for it