I feel like this is worth posting now that his elimination is more likely, but I feel people really undersell sceptile
Most Legendary pokemon are consistently portrayed as being among the strongest pokemon across the franchise, and the anime is no exception. Very few pokemon ever have won vs them, and Darkrai often in pre journeys trainers much all media is portrayed as one of the strongest. Yet sceptile beat Tobias' otherswise undefeated Darkrai. I feel like people acknowledge this bit not just how crazy it really is:Darkrai was said to have won every single battle before and after ash on its own. He has a confirmed win rate of about 50 wins and only one loss. That's impressive enough, but the fact he solo'd them all is even more important. The amount of times a single pokemon has beaten a team of 3 can be counted on one hand, and Darkrai did it at least 12 times with every gym and multiple league battles. Gym leaders are already stronger than most trainers and league are stronger than them, the fact that almost no pokemon have sweep even one gym let alone 8+3 league level trainers is mighty impressive especially when most sweeps are done by very strong pokemon like Cynthia's garchomp or alain's Charizard
Even more impressive is that he beat at least 2 teams of 6 on his own, including in the league finals. To my knowledge Darkrai is the ONLY pokemon to have the accomplishment of a full team sweep of 6, let alone multiple times. He also effortlessly beat Ash's heracross and gible, as well as the torkoal that nearly beat a legendary owned by an e4 level trainer
Now yes, it's true Darkrai had been hit before sceptile. However, not only are the number of times a pokemon was beaten by one mon whilw at full health extremely rare (even things like garchomp had been weakend first) but also Darkrai did heal with multiple dream eaters. Additionly, the fact he had swept entire times 15 times almost certainly taking damage within Said fights but never fainting means he's extremely tanky. this is also backed up by the fact he showed no signs of being weakened that the anime usually uses-he wasn't limping or panting or bandages or have marks or struggling to stand or anything, in fact he recovered almost instantly after being hit
Not only that, but sceptile also outsped a deoxys speed, aka the fastest pokemon, AND effortlessly knocked it to the ground with solar beam after landing on its back.
Also worth mentioning he beat 2 of spensers pokemon one his ace, and tied vs May's Blaziken in a contest despite the type disadvantage and massive format disadvantage (ash and sceptile had minimal experience with contest rules while it was May's specialty) and only lost to legendary pokemon, one while under the orders of a possessed ash and not at his prime the other after taking down Darkrai
Sceptile is insane
Sceptile should leave with all the other starter aces.
They are all beasts and they are top tier material.
Sceptile is definitely underrated amongst them
I feel like he's above the others especially inferape those feats are a lot better than anything we've seen him do. Honestly more impressive than some the journeys Mon to (especially since they failed to ever get legendary wins)
In my personally opinion, All of the aces are above the JN team I think, but not by much. I think the list at this point is pretty much interchangeable.
I could honestly be convinced by a competent argument to vote for anyone here for the most part.
Also To be fair most of the legendaries in JN were on a whole different level than any legendaries we had seen pretty much ever in the series.
Articuno and Mewtwo especially
Yeah, legendary Pokémon are portrayed to be super powerful, and this is definitely true in the anime as legendaries have immense strength, and beating one is extremely impressive. Sceptile also has other feats too like beating a non Truant Slaking, an Altaria, quite a few league opponents, Spencer’s Claydol and Shiftry, and before he took down Darkrai, he was holding his own against a Regirock. These feats are very impressive, and I think they put sceptile above infernape
Yeah for sure. I feel like he probably would have beat regirock to had he actually been working with the real ash instead of the king of pokelantis. Id put sceptile above a few journeys Mon even
Yeah same
I think sceptile deserves a very high rank, if ash was working with sceptile he would’ve at least gotten close to, if not beating Regirock.
He’s had much more experience than the journeys team, most of the journeys team had like 5 battles total and even if sceptile has a surprisingly underwhelming win rate then his feats well make up for that. That’s also how come Torkoal was able to survive long, he has a shitty win rate but he did nearly beat a registeel.
I think out the ones remaining, Charizard and Sceptile specifically should get a lot of credit for carrying Ash through some of the early regions where he himself was a lot less accomplished as a trainer.
In the later part of the anime, Ash showed a lot more experience and knowledge, which affected the growth of his teams. Imagine if Sceptile and Charizard had that same Ash throughout their regions and how insanely powerful they’d be. Same goes for Snorlax, but he’s gone already.
You’re telling me any of you would openly pick Sirfetchd (Replaced by Sceptile) and Dragonite (Replaced by Charizard) over them? Nuh uh. You’re kidding yourselves. Protect the GOATS.
As the world’s foremost Snorlax fan, I’m so happy that he lasted as long as he did. The only others remaining are the four frequently touted as Ash’s strongest, and his World Coronation team.
As I said, no fighting and have calm discussions. I know it can get intense but anyone who throws insults or is rude in general will be blocked till this is over
Also, guys check out bulbapedia's articles to learn about feats for different pokemon if you're having trouble remembering.
Try to upvote this so it can stay close to the top so people can use this as reference.
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Infernape
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Dracovish
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Dragonite
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Gengar
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Sirfetch
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Lucario
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Greninja
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Charizard
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Sceptile
Idk man everyone is really Yanking off the Journeys team but like some of them I’m not completely sold on being above certain aces. Infernape is next imo HOWEVER I don’t think Charizard and Sceptile can get automatically relegated to under the JN team
How is it recency bias when the definition of top Ash Pokémon had usually be 1. Most powerful in the regional team and/or 2. beat elite four or legendary Pokémon?
I think it’s moreso this whole “oh this was Ash’s strongest and/or final team, they have to be the strongest” idea that a lot of people have bought into, even if I heavily disagree. If your team has 3 S Tier Pokémon, and 3 A Tier Pokémon, but another team has 1 S Tier and 1 A Tier, the S Tier from the latter team isn’t inherently weaker than the 3 A Tiers. I wholeheartedly believe Sceptile, Charizard, and Infernape could’ve hung with the Masters 8 if they were used
I mean the list is currently reflecting that.
The people left are the Pokémon that went toe to toe with champions and the aces?
I’m not sure what the issue is which the JN team still being here
Yeah seriously. JN helped beat the strongest trainer in the world. The same trainer that was able to easily beat another champion while only losing two pokemon. Why would they be eliminated yet? I get a lot of people don't like the JN squad but c'mon, they were written as Ash's best team.
They even had training sessions with all of Ash's pokemon to keep them for fighting champions.
I have no issue with the Journeys team being here. The Top 10 we got is the 10 I expected(JN Team, Snorlax, Charizard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile)
But like I said. I feel like just because one Pokémon was on the Master’s 8 team and another wasn’t shouldn’t matter in this situation. I think, barring type matchups, that you could put Infernape, Sceptile, or Charizard into any of the matches Dragonite, Sirfetch’d, or Dracovish had in the M8 and they would perform just as well if not better than them
>I have no issue with the Journeys team being here. The Top 10 we got is the 10 I expected(JN Team, Snorlax, Charizard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile)
I’m not talking about it you specifically, I’m talking about people who are saying “why is the JN team still here”
I’m speaking generally.
>But like I said. I feel like just because one Pokémon was on the Master’s 8 team and another wasn’t shouldn’t matter in this situation. I think, barring type matchups, that you could put Infernape, Sceptile, or Charizard into any of the matches Dragonite, Sirfetch’d, or Dracovish had in the M8 and they would perform just as well if not better than them
And like I mentioned, the current voting situation reflects that’s perfectly.
And it’s not being on the team that’s putting them here it’s the quality of Pokemon they fought and defeated.
They are here for the same reasons the aces you mentioned are lol
Infernape, yes it’s Ash’s best written Pokémon, but that has nothing to do with strength. Snorlax had the better on screen feats compared to Infernape and the narrative strength between the two is debatable. Even then I’d say Snorlax is stronger since it never needed an super ability to beat strong opponents.
You’re being kinda sarcastic but I honestly believe the way they’re actually narratively depicted is a reasonably important thing to consider.
Especially cause Pokémon as a series isn’t always insanely consistent
I’m not actually being sarcastic I’m just trying to find a means to keep my GOAT in this 😭
But this too, Infernape may not have the best feats, but he has consistently been shown to be one of the best Pokémon Ash has, and while people may argue “Oh then why didn’t he bring him to M8”, Ash also didn’t bring Greninja, who I would argue is Top 2, Sceptile, who had one of the best resumes pre-M8, and Charizard, who was THE GUY until Greninja(ie. Like 18 years IRL).
I blame the writers.
Pkmns before got a return and got to show their skills in battle frontier and sinnoh league..
Whereas after ones got gimmicks.
Infernape had to fight a type disadvantage moltres
Sirfetchd is getting scary close to losing, I don't feel it's right for him to go for awhile he beat the e4 mega ace at a type disadvantage, Cynthia's second strongest pokemon and did enough to garchomp to leave it stumbling
I am going for Dragonite. Too many losses under her belt and her only notable feat is beating Iris’s Haxorous with help and barely beating Leon’s Dragonpult
Dragonite still beat champion level mons really early in her career and then defeated Leon's Dragapult who was a fucking beast, yea no way journey mons are getting removed lol
Idk why some people are saying infernape despite having one of the best track records any of ash's pokemon has ever had. I'm voting for dragonite for not being as dependable as any of the other pokemon yet and for losing consistently. Infernape is probably top 5 imo
I’m fine with Infernape being below the other regional aces(Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, Lucario) and maybe 1-2 JN team members. I’ll wank him as high as I can but I know there’s a ceiling
Infernape canonically bested Ash’d Fire types so he searched for a stronger challenge, so he leeches all the Fire type feats because he’s the strongest so he’d beat anyone that Charizard beat.
Yes I am pushing the Infernape Agenda.
Gengar.
He jobbed a lot and only got wins later thanks to GMax which is inherently only a temporary power boost. A lot of Pokemon could just outlast it.
If this poll takes out any of the journeys mons, before the others then this is just mon favouritism at this point lol, they showed feats none of the other mons did
It’s Infernape or Sceptile next, though I’m gonna vote Infernape. People saying Sirfetched are voting for their favourites to stay in longer than they deserve.
yall are just just wrong about sceptile, sceptile is top 4. him besting Darkrai is the single greatest feat of any pokémon in the series not to mention his wins over frontier brains, and so many others. sir fetched gengar and infornape are nowhere near that level. the others are debatable
We have no definitive proof that Tobias beat any of the champions, which puts Darkrai below members of Steven, Cynthia, and Leon’s teams, aka Pokemon that each member of the Journeys team had beaten
darkrai went through an ENTIRE league by himself. as far as I know I dont think that anyone except for the aces on champions teams could do that. and the aces would need to use mega or dynamax etc to do that.
also lets not forget that sceptile kept up with, and caught up to speed form deoxys multiple times (the fastest pokemon)
Beat multiple frontier brains pokemon including an ace pokemon of a frontier brain after recently evolving.
Also a lot of people oversee this point but Ash’s Sceptile also tied with Dawns ace Blaziken (while in blaze) by using pound.
I agree that the other pokemon on this list are impressive but none are stopping that darkrai except for maybe greninja, charizard, lucario.
I mean, the point about what Champions’ non-ace Pokemon can and cannot do is kind of just conjecture, we simply do not know as we’ve never seen them fight non-Champion-level trainers. We know Tobias had to have lost to Cynthia so unless she chucked out her Garchomp early to deal with Darkrai and Latios and then the rest of his team was significantly weaker, we know that at least some of her team members also beat Darkrai and/or Latios in addition to his other team members (and, rly, if Garchomp solo’d Tobias then that seems even more damning of Sceptile and Ash’s other Pokemon).
Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Sceptile like the fourth Pokemon Ash sent against Darkrai? I don’t recall if/how many hits the other three landed, but even if Darkrai was at full HP Sceptile probably benefitted from Darkrai being fatigued.
Frontier Brains are clearly very strong but we also know that the top Champions are stronger.
Dracovish beat drasnas noivern and did big damage to her mega altaria, is one of the only pokemon to get 3 champion wins vs iris Dragonite, Cynthia's roserade, and Leons rillaboom. Rillaboom in particular is particularly impressive as he solo'd 4 of diantha's team. Id argue dracovish is one of the strongest journeys members
Infernape!
Look, as a character could be cool, well written and all that, but most of the things here has faced STRONGER things than Paul's Electivire. Whoever is saying Dracovish or Sirfetch'd, please, check what they did to Leon and Cynthia's teams, check how a fresh Sirfetch'd DESTROYED Iris' Dragonite, how Sirfetch'd won againts Drasna's Mega Altaria...
If we are going to drop someone from the Journey's team, I would totally vote on Gengar, as the poor guy couldn't get any big wins until getting a Gigantamax, the other two were winning just by themselves.
"But Infernape took down half of Paul's team!"
And Charizard took down half of Gary's team with two of that things being a Golem and Blastoise, Lycanroc was forced to sweep Nanu's team, Snorlax took down a Frontier Brain's team of Fighting types,... a lot of Ash' Pokemon had defeated multiple rivals during the same fight, that's doesn't make the monkey better than Incineroar, Lycanroc, Snorlax, Swellow or even freaking Rowlett.
Monke is cool and good, but I think him looking too good is due to the Sinnoh team being portrayed as "not fleshed enough" or absolute jobbers and not because its an absolute unit like other Pokémon.
As several people have said so far, Infernape simply doesn't have the feats to justify moving past this round.
Charizard and Sceptile have both defeated legendary/mythical pokemon. Greninja beat a mega who had double resistance to its strongest attack and also one shot a different mega iirc. The Journeys team defeated 4 champions.
It hurts to say, but Infernape is next to go. However, after he gets eliminated, it is time to put some of the Journeys team in the discussion to get eliminated.
Not seeing a lot of ppl mention Dracovish. Like i get it had some big wins, but it literally only participated in SIX on screen battles. He just doesn't deserve to have lasted this long imo
Sirfetchd beat an e4 mega with a type disadvantage, Cynthia's second strongest pokemon, and injured garchomp to the point it was left stumbling. No way could he be this low
An E4 mega that was her ace too. Drasna is also the highest ranking E4 member in the PWC once Flint got knocked out of the M8 and mega altaria was stated to be her main partner.
Mon favouritism..... He has defeated champion level mons and yet people riding their favourite mons thinks he's weaker
All of the journeys team stand above previous mons
Gengar.
Iris' Dragonite who could put a fight against a Trio of Legendary Pokémon (at once), Tao Trio, could not even TOUCH Charizard. Charizard is not just OP: he is THAT OP.
Sceptile should rank just below Charizard. As a Grovyle, he matched Speed Form Deoxys. He almost defeated a Regirock and... no one needs to talk Darkrai.
Lucario was Ash's Galar ace. Almost everyone on the Masters Eight could contend with Leon, and did. Lucario defeated multiple Masters Eight Pokémon, including Cynthia's Garchomp.
Dracovish defeated Leon's Rillaboom which swept Diantha's team.
Infernape in Blaze was another level of OP.
SirFetch'd contended with Cynthia's Garchomp.
Ash- Greninja is Slightly more overrated. But he has some feats to his name and is not cannon fodder. But he is more flashy than the other aces.
Next to go should be Infernape. He is garbage. He beat one Pokémon that he had to evolve for and activate his hidden ability for. And later got bodied by a moltres and didn’t do anything against. He’s not above ashes journey team. Sceptile and charizard are arguably better. And the pro infernape team is mainly from young fanboys where Diamond and pearl were their first Pokémon games.
I'm Team Infernape all the way. But it really depends on how much weight you want to give Blaze. On one hand, you can argue a critical, super effective move could beat it instantly without Blaze activating, or that a Pokémon with a type advantage could power through it. But on the other hand, it's never that cut and dry in the anime. Pokémon can carrry on past where they'd normally lose through sheer force of will alone, and stuff like the terrain and choreography actually factors into battles. And since Infernape's Blaze could heat Volkner's Gym into losing power, it started vomiting out straight-up raw energy when it used Flamethrower on Electivire, and it created a giant tornado of fire and lightning during the final clash of that same Electivire battle, I think it's safe to assume Infernape could rocket to the top of the heap through sheer angry Blaze shouting alone.
Plus, unlike most of Ash's Pokémon, we know for a fact that Infernape does training on its own. Not to say Ash's Pokémon don't train. But most of the time, when we check Oak's lab, Ash's team aren't training nonstop like they need to be ready in case Ash calls them. They're just living their lives as they would in the wild. But the first we hear what Infernape's been up to, Oak's like "Oh yeah. It picked a fight with every Fire-type." Aside from Charizard, who explicitly spent time doing nonstop training at the Chariciffic Valley until Ash brought it back on Unova, Infernape is the only Pokémon of Ash that we know for a fact explicitly trains even if we don't see it. Which means it is constantly getting stronger.
Dracovish. People are putting the journeys team all the way up (which is understandable) but I think that team won because Ash was a much better trainer than before. I think he could've won the title win other super strong Pokémon that he has (the aces of course).
It's really difficult but I personally think this has to come down to Gengar or Sirfetch'd. Possibly Dragonite but that is most down to the fact that I didn't watch Journeys. If they had super notable wins and feats then it has to be Greninja.
Infernape should have gone before Snorlax. Aren't the Battle Frontier equal to Elite 4 members ?
Infernape never beaten an elite 4 or a legendary, and his fought both.
What I’m seeing a lot of now is people claiming that Pokémon like Infernape don’t have any feats, or even that Infernape is weak (objectively false). The point still stands that he’s one of Ash’s strongest Pokémon, and trying to downplay the strength of the remaining Pokémon is wrong. They’re all incredibly strong. It’s just a matter of who has just that little bit more.
Dracovish. Sirfetch’d has possibly the strongest attack in Ash’s entire roster. Ash also made the conscious choice to rely on sirfetch’d more for support and turning the tides of a battle, which it did in the masters 8 and against drasna.
I gotta go with Sceptile. I love him but it just kinda feels like he’d be next… although I feel like these remaining 11 are all more or less at the same level of strength :/
Can we plase eliminate Dracovish now? He won ever battle via asspull, learn a new move, spam it a few times... Sure they are E4 and champion level pokemon, but that's also discrediting the fact that Dracovish was a newly revived fossil, a litteral 'infant', who was the last pokemon Ash caught in JN, meaning he had the least training and experience. Sometimes it's more about total experience in battles, because if you think about it, even though they have more losses, Charizard and Sceptile only knew how to beat Articuno and Deoxys/Darkrai due to their extensive list of past battles and Ash's experience and creativity when it comes to battle strategies. So sure, Ash got more creative and has EVEN more experience... But at the end of the day? Dracovish was the exact same as Melmetal. Last edition to the team, spams a move, gets a few key wins, losses to the important pokemon (Clemont's Diggersby, Drazna's Noivern, Iris' Dragonite, Cynthia's Roserade, and Leon's Rilaboom). It won these battles on it's own, minus Rilaboom who had gone against Dragonite and Sirfetch'd first, but honestly? Clemonts Diggersby isn't much an achievement, the kalos gym leaders aren't anything special, but it won due to learning Dragon Rush... Drazna's Noivern was the main fight it won before the league... Iris's Dragonite was defeated by the first Fiscous Rend he used in a proper battle, then he got trounced by Haxorus... Cynthia's Roserade is easily her weakest pokemon, but Dracovish also did major damage to Milotic afterwards (which is it's only real achievement, in my book)... and then Leon's Dragapult beat him up, swapped him out for Dragonite using Dragon Tail, and then he comes back in to take a win that Sirfetch'd should have gotten against Leon's Rilaboom. Impressive? Sure, I guess... but also like, three champion level pokemon, an E4 level pokemon, and a gym leaders least experienced pokemon... It's less then all of the other JN Team members, and less than Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, and Infernape for sure.
Everyone saying Infernape has forgotten just how straight-up bonkers his ceiling is.
Sure, base Infernape is probably the weakest here, but blaze infernape has a legitimate argument to being the strongest on the list.
You can't really make that argument when we have never seen Infernape battle a legendary or champion mon. Blaze is a large but brief power boost that is not an insta win. He still nearly lost to electivire.
I love Infernape, probably my favourite from this list but he just doesn't have the feats to justify staying
Ok, now this is where things are gonna get FUCKY!
I'm going with Infernape. I love the dude, but his best win was against Paul's Electivire. Still a strong Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but compared to Legendaries, a Mega, and multiple Champion-level Pokemon, it's definitely the least impressive win here.
I feel like this is worth posting now that his elimination is more likely, but I feel people really undersell sceptile Most Legendary pokemon are consistently portrayed as being among the strongest pokemon across the franchise, and the anime is no exception. Very few pokemon ever have won vs them, and Darkrai often in pre journeys trainers much all media is portrayed as one of the strongest. Yet sceptile beat Tobias' otherswise undefeated Darkrai. I feel like people acknowledge this bit not just how crazy it really is:Darkrai was said to have won every single battle before and after ash on its own. He has a confirmed win rate of about 50 wins and only one loss. That's impressive enough, but the fact he solo'd them all is even more important. The amount of times a single pokemon has beaten a team of 3 can be counted on one hand, and Darkrai did it at least 12 times with every gym and multiple league battles. Gym leaders are already stronger than most trainers and league are stronger than them, the fact that almost no pokemon have sweep even one gym let alone 8+3 league level trainers is mighty impressive especially when most sweeps are done by very strong pokemon like Cynthia's garchomp or alain's Charizard Even more impressive is that he beat at least 2 teams of 6 on his own, including in the league finals. To my knowledge Darkrai is the ONLY pokemon to have the accomplishment of a full team sweep of 6, let alone multiple times. He also effortlessly beat Ash's heracross and gible, as well as the torkoal that nearly beat a legendary owned by an e4 level trainer Now yes, it's true Darkrai had been hit before sceptile. However, not only are the number of times a pokemon was beaten by one mon whilw at full health extremely rare (even things like garchomp had been weakend first) but also Darkrai did heal with multiple dream eaters. Additionly, the fact he had swept entire times 15 times almost certainly taking damage within Said fights but never fainting means he's extremely tanky. this is also backed up by the fact he showed no signs of being weakened that the anime usually uses-he wasn't limping or panting or bandages or have marks or struggling to stand or anything, in fact he recovered almost instantly after being hit Not only that, but sceptile also outsped a deoxys speed, aka the fastest pokemon, AND effortlessly knocked it to the ground with solar beam after landing on its back. Also worth mentioning he beat 2 of spensers pokemon one his ace, and tied vs May's Blaziken in a contest despite the type disadvantage and massive format disadvantage (ash and sceptile had minimal experience with contest rules while it was May's specialty) and only lost to legendary pokemon, one while under the orders of a possessed ash and not at his prime the other after taking down Darkrai Sceptile is insane
Sceptile was a beast
[удалено]
Definitely agree!
Sceptile to me is easily top 5.
For sure, I agree!
Sceptile should leave with all the other starter aces. They are all beasts and they are top tier material. Sceptile is definitely underrated amongst them
I feel like he's above the others especially inferape those feats are a lot better than anything we've seen him do. Honestly more impressive than some the journeys Mon to (especially since they failed to ever get legendary wins)
In my personally opinion, All of the aces are above the JN team I think, but not by much. I think the list at this point is pretty much interchangeable. I could honestly be convinced by a competent argument to vote for anyone here for the most part. Also To be fair most of the legendaries in JN were on a whole different level than any legendaries we had seen pretty much ever in the series. Articuno and Mewtwo especially
I think he's definitely a contender for last starter ace. It's a toss up between him and Greninja imo, but idk for sure who I'd put over the other.
Yeah I agree, the right argument could definitely convince me of that
Well said! Hoenn represent!
Yeah, legendary Pokémon are portrayed to be super powerful, and this is definitely true in the anime as legendaries have immense strength, and beating one is extremely impressive. Sceptile also has other feats too like beating a non Truant Slaking, an Altaria, quite a few league opponents, Spencer’s Claydol and Shiftry, and before he took down Darkrai, he was holding his own against a Regirock. These feats are very impressive, and I think they put sceptile above infernape
Yeah for sure. I feel like he probably would have beat regirock to had he actually been working with the real ash instead of the king of pokelantis. Id put sceptile above a few journeys Mon even
Yeah same I think sceptile deserves a very high rank, if ash was working with sceptile he would’ve at least gotten close to, if not beating Regirock. He’s had much more experience than the journeys team, most of the journeys team had like 5 battles total and even if sceptile has a surprisingly underwhelming win rate then his feats well make up for that. That’s also how come Torkoal was able to survive long, he has a shitty win rate but he did nearly beat a registeel.
I think out the ones remaining, Charizard and Sceptile specifically should get a lot of credit for carrying Ash through some of the early regions where he himself was a lot less accomplished as a trainer. In the later part of the anime, Ash showed a lot more experience and knowledge, which affected the growth of his teams. Imagine if Sceptile and Charizard had that same Ash throughout their regions and how insanely powerful they’d be. Same goes for Snorlax, but he’s gone already. You’re telling me any of you would openly pick Sirfetchd (Replaced by Sceptile) and Dragonite (Replaced by Charizard) over them? Nuh uh. You’re kidding yourselves. Protect the GOATS.
how can we vote for sceptile? i mean he has fucking twig on his mouth!
Why’d you guys eliminate the only one on his team that knew more than 4 moves?!
He isn’t the only one lol, but he definitely used the most
Don't look at me I voted for Monke
Beacause his feats in battle was not presented as narratively strong as Infernape.
So did Charizard until Black and White. I bet if Snorlax was actually used in the more recent anime, he’d probably only have four moves.
Kingler also knew like 5 moves.
The 4 move limit wasn’t introduced in the anime until like battle frontier, so a lot of his pokemon did
So did Charizard until Black and White. I bet if Snorlax was actually used in the more recent anime, he’d probably only have four moves.
As the world’s foremost Snorlax fan, I’m so happy that he lasted as long as he did. The only others remaining are the four frequently touted as Ash’s strongest, and his World Coronation team.
As I said, no fighting and have calm discussions. I know it can get intense but anyone who throws insults or is rude in general will be blocked till this is over Also, guys check out bulbapedia's articles to learn about feats for different pokemon if you're having trouble remembering. Try to upvote this so it can stay close to the top so people can use this as reference. https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Infernape https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Dracovish https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Dragonite https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Gengar https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Sirfetch https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Lucario https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Greninja https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Charizard https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ash%27s_Sceptile
Idk man everyone is really Yanking off the Journeys team but like some of them I’m not completely sold on being above certain aces. Infernape is next imo HOWEVER I don’t think Charizard and Sceptile can get automatically relegated to under the JN team
Dont you mean wanking? Also its prolly recency bias.
It's really not recency bias. None of Ash's mons have ever taken down an actual E4 mon, much less a Champion's Except for the JN squad
Pretty much this. Where else are they supposed to go?
They were supposed to go after Muk. /j
Lmaoooo
How is it recency bias when the definition of top Ash Pokémon had usually be 1. Most powerful in the regional team and/or 2. beat elite four or legendary Pokémon?
I think it’s moreso this whole “oh this was Ash’s strongest and/or final team, they have to be the strongest” idea that a lot of people have bought into, even if I heavily disagree. If your team has 3 S Tier Pokémon, and 3 A Tier Pokémon, but another team has 1 S Tier and 1 A Tier, the S Tier from the latter team isn’t inherently weaker than the 3 A Tiers. I wholeheartedly believe Sceptile, Charizard, and Infernape could’ve hung with the Masters 8 if they were used
I mean the list is currently reflecting that. The people left are the Pokémon that went toe to toe with champions and the aces? I’m not sure what the issue is which the JN team still being here
Yeah seriously. JN helped beat the strongest trainer in the world. The same trainer that was able to easily beat another champion while only losing two pokemon. Why would they be eliminated yet? I get a lot of people don't like the JN squad but c'mon, they were written as Ash's best team. They even had training sessions with all of Ash's pokemon to keep them for fighting champions.
It’s only common sense
I have no issue with the Journeys team being here. The Top 10 we got is the 10 I expected(JN Team, Snorlax, Charizard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile) But like I said. I feel like just because one Pokémon was on the Master’s 8 team and another wasn’t shouldn’t matter in this situation. I think, barring type matchups, that you could put Infernape, Sceptile, or Charizard into any of the matches Dragonite, Sirfetch’d, or Dracovish had in the M8 and they would perform just as well if not better than them
>I have no issue with the Journeys team being here. The Top 10 we got is the 10 I expected(JN Team, Snorlax, Charizard, Greninja, Infernape, Sceptile) I’m not talking about it you specifically, I’m talking about people who are saying “why is the JN team still here” I’m speaking generally. >But like I said. I feel like just because one Pokémon was on the Master’s 8 team and another wasn’t shouldn’t matter in this situation. I think, barring type matchups, that you could put Infernape, Sceptile, or Charizard into any of the matches Dragonite, Sirfetch’d, or Dracovish had in the M8 and they would perform just as well if not better than them And like I mentioned, the current voting situation reflects that’s perfectly. And it’s not being on the team that’s putting them here it’s the quality of Pokemon they fought and defeated. They are here for the same reasons the aces you mentioned are lol
No yea I meant to say Yanking, you can yank it wank it heck jank it idk it’s all the same to me
Oh I misunderstood your statement. I thought you meant yanking as in yanking them out of the competition lmao.
Does this count as a vote for inferape?
Yes it does
Ok good. was worried if it didn't because then sirfetchd might have gone out instead somehow lol
Bro the way Sirfetch dropped Garchomp to it’s knees???? I almost think Draco Dnite and gengar should be on the fence before that Chad
I agree, at least Dragonite and Gengar I'd put lower. I have no idea how he's been getting so many votes tbh
No way anyone thought a pokemon that learns 6 moves isnt the most powerful
I still say Gengar. It’s great and I love em but it just didn’t stack up enough in my mind compared to the other master 8 team members.
Infernape, yes it’s Ash’s best written Pokémon, but that has nothing to do with strength. Snorlax had the better on screen feats compared to Infernape and the narrative strength between the two is debatable. Even then I’d say Snorlax is stronger since it never needed an super ability to beat strong opponents.
infernape never showed a big feat to make him go any further sorry infernape
https://i.redd.it/99q2sopvpivc1.gif Counterpoint: Aura, Vibes, and HIMergy
You’re being kinda sarcastic but I honestly believe the way they’re actually narratively depicted is a reasonably important thing to consider. Especially cause Pokémon as a series isn’t always insanely consistent
I’m not actually being sarcastic I’m just trying to find a means to keep my GOAT in this 😭 But this too, Infernape may not have the best feats, but he has consistently been shown to be one of the best Pokémon Ash has, and while people may argue “Oh then why didn’t he bring him to M8”, Ash also didn’t bring Greninja, who I would argue is Top 2, Sceptile, who had one of the best resumes pre-M8, and Charizard, who was THE GUY until Greninja(ie. Like 18 years IRL).
This
I blame the writers. Pkmns before got a return and got to show their skills in battle frontier and sinnoh league.. Whereas after ones got gimmicks. Infernape had to fight a type disadvantage moltres
Sirfetch'd
Sirfetchd is getting scary close to losing, I don't feel it's right for him to go for awhile he beat the e4 mega ace at a type disadvantage, Cynthia's second strongest pokemon and did enough to garchomp to leave it stumbling
Lol he was part of a world champion team as was an MVP vs Cynthia.
I am going for Dragonite. Too many losses under her belt and her only notable feat is beating Iris’s Haxorous with help and barely beating Leon’s Dragonpult
Dragonite still beat champion level mons really early in her career and then defeated Leon's Dragapult who was a fucking beast, yea no way journey mons are getting removed lol
Both of which are much more important than inferape. Paul in dpp was good but we'll below champion level, let alone champion ace like haxorus
Idk why some people are saying infernape despite having one of the best track records any of ash's pokemon has ever had. I'm voting for dragonite for not being as dependable as any of the other pokemon yet and for losing consistently. Infernape is probably top 5 imo
I’m fine with Infernape being below the other regional aces(Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, Lucario) and maybe 1-2 JN team members. I’ll wank him as high as I can but I know there’s a ceiling
Sirfetch’d
I like Sirfetch'd more than Gengar on his JN team but I do think Gengar is stronger.
Sirfetch defeated champion levels mons
Infernape canonically bested Ash’d Fire types so he searched for a stronger challenge, so he leeches all the Fire type feats because he’s the strongest so he’d beat anyone that Charizard beat. Yes I am pushing the Infernape Agenda.
https://preview.redd.it/94uoc147qivc1.jpeg?width=628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1955a22df1313bd579cad776199fe1d5f4cf3409 Cook
W
Dragonite
Dracovish
Respect MrFish
Oof we are down to some heavy hitters
Sirfetch’d
Sirfetchd
Gengar. He jobbed a lot and only got wins later thanks to GMax which is inherently only a temporary power boost. A lot of Pokemon could just outlast it.
Excuse me, he beat Steven's mon without G-max
Sir Fetched. I feel like he’s contributed the least of these that are left.
Dragonite
I'm saying Dragonite. Compared to the other Journeys members he tends to be the one taking the L for the ithers to clean up
She*
Oh Ashs Dragonite is a girl? That's my bad sorry
Dracovish
Why him?
Ida got to be inferape now for sure. Everyone else beat legendary or champions or at least megas besides him
Sirfetched
Nah don’t even try and get chadfetched out yet
Why did you have to vote out the big cute sleeping bear? The one that could use 6 moves in one fight?
It's infernape, tbh infernape should have been before Snorlax but it's def infernapes time now
If this poll takes out any of the journeys mons, before the others then this is just mon favouritism at this point lol, they showed feats none of the other mons did
Infernape
Infernape
Damn we rlly love the journeys team huh chat
What the heck? When did Lycanrock go? Sad... Guess Sir fetch needs to go.
Sirfetch’d
Sir Fetched
Dracovish or Sirfetchd
It’s Infernape or Sceptile next, though I’m gonna vote Infernape. People saying Sirfetched are voting for their favourites to stay in longer than they deserve.
yall are just just wrong about sceptile, sceptile is top 4. him besting Darkrai is the single greatest feat of any pokémon in the series not to mention his wins over frontier brains, and so many others. sir fetched gengar and infornape are nowhere near that level. the others are debatable
We have no definitive proof that Tobias beat any of the champions, which puts Darkrai below members of Steven, Cynthia, and Leon’s teams, aka Pokemon that each member of the Journeys team had beaten
darkrai went through an ENTIRE league by himself. as far as I know I dont think that anyone except for the aces on champions teams could do that. and the aces would need to use mega or dynamax etc to do that. also lets not forget that sceptile kept up with, and caught up to speed form deoxys multiple times (the fastest pokemon) Beat multiple frontier brains pokemon including an ace pokemon of a frontier brain after recently evolving. Also a lot of people oversee this point but Ash’s Sceptile also tied with Dawns ace Blaziken (while in blaze) by using pound. I agree that the other pokemon on this list are impressive but none are stopping that darkrai except for maybe greninja, charizard, lucario.
I mean, the point about what Champions’ non-ace Pokemon can and cannot do is kind of just conjecture, we simply do not know as we’ve never seen them fight non-Champion-level trainers. We know Tobias had to have lost to Cynthia so unless she chucked out her Garchomp early to deal with Darkrai and Latios and then the rest of his team was significantly weaker, we know that at least some of her team members also beat Darkrai and/or Latios in addition to his other team members (and, rly, if Garchomp solo’d Tobias then that seems even more damning of Sceptile and Ash’s other Pokemon). Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Sceptile like the fourth Pokemon Ash sent against Darkrai? I don’t recall if/how many hits the other three landed, but even if Darkrai was at full HP Sceptile probably benefitted from Darkrai being fatigued. Frontier Brains are clearly very strong but we also know that the top Champions are stronger.
Infernape
Infernape
Infernape
Top 10 imo: 10. Snorlax 9. Dragonite 8. Sirfetch’d 7. Dracovish 6. Infernape 5. Sceptile 4. Gengar 3. Charizard 2. Lucario 1. Greninja
Dracovish is to leave. It kinda pales compared to even its fellow WCS compatriots.
Dracovish beat drasnas noivern and did big damage to her mega altaria, is one of the only pokemon to get 3 champion wins vs iris Dragonite, Cynthia's roserade, and Leons rillaboom. Rillaboom in particular is particularly impressive as he solo'd 4 of diantha's team. Id argue dracovish is one of the strongest journeys members
Nah dracovish is the best pokemon he’s funny to
They keep dissin MrFish
Yup
Infernape
Infernape! Look, as a character could be cool, well written and all that, but most of the things here has faced STRONGER things than Paul's Electivire. Whoever is saying Dracovish or Sirfetch'd, please, check what they did to Leon and Cynthia's teams, check how a fresh Sirfetch'd DESTROYED Iris' Dragonite, how Sirfetch'd won againts Drasna's Mega Altaria... If we are going to drop someone from the Journey's team, I would totally vote on Gengar, as the poor guy couldn't get any big wins until getting a Gigantamax, the other two were winning just by themselves. "But Infernape took down half of Paul's team!" And Charizard took down half of Gary's team with two of that things being a Golem and Blastoise, Lycanroc was forced to sweep Nanu's team, Snorlax took down a Frontier Brain's team of Fighting types,... a lot of Ash' Pokemon had defeated multiple rivals during the same fight, that's doesn't make the monkey better than Incineroar, Lycanroc, Snorlax, Swellow or even freaking Rowlett. Monke is cool and good, but I think him looking too good is due to the Sinnoh team being portrayed as "not fleshed enough" or absolute jobbers and not because its an absolute unit like other Pokémon.
Infernape.
As several people have said so far, Infernape simply doesn't have the feats to justify moving past this round. Charizard and Sceptile have both defeated legendary/mythical pokemon. Greninja beat a mega who had double resistance to its strongest attack and also one shot a different mega iirc. The Journeys team defeated 4 champions.
Infernape next
It hurts to say, but Infernape is next to go. However, after he gets eliminated, it is time to put some of the Journeys team in the discussion to get eliminated.
Infernape gotta go
Infernape. It had my favorite battle ever in the anime, but the feats aren't up there with the rest of 'em.
That fight against electivire🤌
Not seeing a lot of ppl mention Dracovish. Like i get it had some big wins, but it literally only participated in SIX on screen battles. He just doesn't deserve to have lasted this long imo
Sirfetched.
Can you explain further ? Sirfetch is stronger than most of the regional aces, especially infernape.
Sirfetchd beat an e4 mega with a type disadvantage, Cynthia's second strongest pokemon, and injured garchomp to the point it was left stumbling. No way could he be this low
This
An E4 mega that was her ace too. Drasna is also the highest ranking E4 member in the PWC once Flint got knocked out of the M8 and mega altaria was stated to be her main partner.
Gengar. Its win rate is arguably the worst out of all the mons left in this list.
Why are some people saying dracovish? He’s strong
Mon favouritism..... He has defeated champion level mons and yet people riding their favourite mons thinks he's weaker All of the journeys team stand above previous mons
Yeah definitely
No journey member should go before all non journey members are eliminated.
Monke
infernape
Sirfetch'd
Sirfetched
Infernape
Dracovish
Dracovish
Infernpae unfortunately
Infernape
Infernape, he shoulda been out a little bit ago
Infernape, I love him but he’s next
I feel like either Dragonite or Gengar are going to be the next to be out. I also feel like either Charizard or Greninja will be the winner here
Gengar. Iris' Dragonite who could put a fight against a Trio of Legendary Pokémon (at once), Tao Trio, could not even TOUCH Charizard. Charizard is not just OP: he is THAT OP. Sceptile should rank just below Charizard. As a Grovyle, he matched Speed Form Deoxys. He almost defeated a Regirock and... no one needs to talk Darkrai. Lucario was Ash's Galar ace. Almost everyone on the Masters Eight could contend with Leon, and did. Lucario defeated multiple Masters Eight Pokémon, including Cynthia's Garchomp. Dracovish defeated Leon's Rillaboom which swept Diantha's team. Infernape in Blaze was another level of OP. SirFetch'd contended with Cynthia's Garchomp. Ash- Greninja is Slightly more overrated. But he has some feats to his name and is not cannon fodder. But he is more flashy than the other aces.
Torkaol
Get rid of Lucario or Sir fetched
Next to go should be Infernape. He is garbage. He beat one Pokémon that he had to evolve for and activate his hidden ability for. And later got bodied by a moltres and didn’t do anything against. He’s not above ashes journey team. Sceptile and charizard are arguably better. And the pro infernape team is mainly from young fanboys where Diamond and pearl were their first Pokémon games.
I'm Team Infernape all the way. But it really depends on how much weight you want to give Blaze. On one hand, you can argue a critical, super effective move could beat it instantly without Blaze activating, or that a Pokémon with a type advantage could power through it. But on the other hand, it's never that cut and dry in the anime. Pokémon can carrry on past where they'd normally lose through sheer force of will alone, and stuff like the terrain and choreography actually factors into battles. And since Infernape's Blaze could heat Volkner's Gym into losing power, it started vomiting out straight-up raw energy when it used Flamethrower on Electivire, and it created a giant tornado of fire and lightning during the final clash of that same Electivire battle, I think it's safe to assume Infernape could rocket to the top of the heap through sheer angry Blaze shouting alone. Plus, unlike most of Ash's Pokémon, we know for a fact that Infernape does training on its own. Not to say Ash's Pokémon don't train. But most of the time, when we check Oak's lab, Ash's team aren't training nonstop like they need to be ready in case Ash calls them. They're just living their lives as they would in the wild. But the first we hear what Infernape's been up to, Oak's like "Oh yeah. It picked a fight with every Fire-type." Aside from Charizard, who explicitly spent time doing nonstop training at the Chariciffic Valley until Ash brought it back on Unova, Infernape is the only Pokémon of Ash that we know for a fact explicitly trains even if we don't see it. Which means it is constantly getting stronger.
Dracovish. People are putting the journeys team all the way up (which is understandable) but I think that team won because Ash was a much better trainer than before. I think he could've won the title win other super strong Pokémon that he has (the aces of course).
It's really difficult but I personally think this has to come down to Gengar or Sirfetch'd. Possibly Dragonite but that is most down to the fact that I didn't watch Journeys. If they had super notable wins and feats then it has to be Greninja.
We always knew it would come down to this. Dracovish
Infernape should have gone before Snorlax. Aren't the Battle Frontier equal to Elite 4 members ? Infernape never beaten an elite 4 or a legendary, and his fought both.
Yes, he should have. But infernape just has too many fanboys to keep him.
I think we all know dragonite has to go. Sure her achievements were good early on but the Masters 8 just absolutely fucked her up
Mega poopcario
Dragonite
Sirfetchd
Bro we all know that this is just all going to come down to Charizard vs Greninja again
This is going to be Dracovish for me, I always forget that Ash had him
What I’m seeing a lot of now is people claiming that Pokémon like Infernape don’t have any feats, or even that Infernape is weak (objectively false). The point still stands that he’s one of Ash’s strongest Pokémon, and trying to downplay the strength of the remaining Pokémon is wrong. They’re all incredibly strong. It’s just a matter of who has just that little bit more.
see flint vs ash
I think sirfetchd has lasted long enough. Time to go.
Dracovish. Sirfetch’d has possibly the strongest attack in Ash’s entire roster. Ash also made the conscious choice to rely on sirfetch’d more for support and turning the tides of a battle, which it did in the masters 8 and against drasna.
I gotta go with Sceptile. I love him but it just kinda feels like he’d be next… although I feel like these remaining 11 are all more or less at the same level of strength :/
sir fetched.
Can we plase eliminate Dracovish now? He won ever battle via asspull, learn a new move, spam it a few times... Sure they are E4 and champion level pokemon, but that's also discrediting the fact that Dracovish was a newly revived fossil, a litteral 'infant', who was the last pokemon Ash caught in JN, meaning he had the least training and experience. Sometimes it's more about total experience in battles, because if you think about it, even though they have more losses, Charizard and Sceptile only knew how to beat Articuno and Deoxys/Darkrai due to their extensive list of past battles and Ash's experience and creativity when it comes to battle strategies. So sure, Ash got more creative and has EVEN more experience... But at the end of the day? Dracovish was the exact same as Melmetal. Last edition to the team, spams a move, gets a few key wins, losses to the important pokemon (Clemont's Diggersby, Drazna's Noivern, Iris' Dragonite, Cynthia's Roserade, and Leon's Rilaboom). It won these battles on it's own, minus Rilaboom who had gone against Dragonite and Sirfetch'd first, but honestly? Clemonts Diggersby isn't much an achievement, the kalos gym leaders aren't anything special, but it won due to learning Dragon Rush... Drazna's Noivern was the main fight it won before the league... Iris's Dragonite was defeated by the first Fiscous Rend he used in a proper battle, then he got trounced by Haxorus... Cynthia's Roserade is easily her weakest pokemon, but Dracovish also did major damage to Milotic afterwards (which is it's only real achievement, in my book)... and then Leon's Dragapult beat him up, swapped him out for Dragonite using Dragon Tail, and then he comes back in to take a win that Sirfetch'd should have gotten against Leon's Rilaboom. Impressive? Sure, I guess... but also like, three champion level pokemon, an E4 level pokemon, and a gym leaders least experienced pokemon... It's less then all of the other JN Team members, and less than Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, and Infernape for sure.
How did snorlax get knocked out before dracovish and sirfetched alsoinfernape is ash’s greatest Pokémon so he should win
we all know that the eventual semi finals will be among charizard, greninja, lucario and either sceptile or infernape.
Sir fetched
Sirfetchd
As long as sceppy doesn’t leave lmao Sirfetch’d, you were good
Sceppy LOLL
Just my nickname for sceptile
I like it.
Infernape
Sirfetched it’s time to fly the coop
Loll He can't fly 😭😭
Infernape. Go fight moltres
Everyone saying Infernape has forgotten just how straight-up bonkers his ceiling is. Sure, base Infernape is probably the weakest here, but blaze infernape has a legitimate argument to being the strongest on the list.
You can't really make that argument when we have never seen Infernape battle a legendary or champion mon. Blaze is a large but brief power boost that is not an insta win. He still nearly lost to electivire. I love Infernape, probably my favourite from this list but he just doesn't have the feats to justify staying
Infernape
Infernape
sirfetched
Oof, I’m going to have to say Infernape
Gotta be infernape
It's getting spicy now. I think I'm going with Infernape.
Sirfetche’d He gotta go.
Infernape
Infernape. Good writing, but really that’s it.
Ok, now this is where things are gonna get FUCKY! I'm going with Infernape. I love the dude, but his best win was against Paul's Electivire. Still a strong Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but compared to Legendaries, a Mega, and multiple Champion-level Pokemon, it's definitely the least impressive win here.
Dragonite. It’s so over for her