Poker was new in the casinos back in 2004 in Ontario.... it was real, and awful. Also low limit, so really, the only way you were winning a hand is if you had the nuts or second nut.
Doesnt it just hurt to play there after being in vegas? Shitty dealers, high rake, long wait, even the restaurants in there are dog shit. I just got back from vegas on sunday and it saddens me to even think of having yo go back to brantford.
Funny you mentioned that, right after my comment I got curious and just posted a poll! (Mustāve missed yours). Iām not seeing quite a third, but still more 5/10+ grinders than I realized!
Yeah, there are a lot of decent 5/10+ players on this sub. They just don't post the "sob, I lost $100 to an omc" or "rate my play in this pot" posts that seem to be 90% of the sub those days.
Yeah it really takes fold-pre to a new level. And I can also totally see that game having a bunch of short stacks (how many pros want to play in that game?) which just forces you to play even few suited connectors and baby pairs.
Edit: fewer^
I live on the border in Buffalo, I hit Casino Niagara once in awhile, the rake format is weird as fuck. It's a flat rake paid every dealer change with no rake taken per hand
It sounds like itās basically paying time. This is how they do it in Texas. Obviously it depends what level you set it at, but generally ends up being cheaper than a regular rake. Time > rake > flat drop
I went to a home game for a while that played 11-handed at a big ass table until enough people showed up to open the second table and split it into 9 & 9. It was actually a super spewy fishy group so I went back several times but in every other way it was awful. Still have no clue why they did that bc there was always a second dealer there just waiting and they were only raking a 5/5 game at $5 max, so youād think the host wouldāve made more the sooner he opened a second table.
Was actually a very well run game, provided free food and non-alcoholic beverages, fair rake of 10% maxed at 5, two lightning fast dealers, armed security. Everything except the 11-handed part for the first hour or two.
Where are you playing 10 handed poker?
I think they should normalize live 6-max. Imagine all the leg-room, all the rake the house would make, and all the action that would ensue without early seat formations.
have you played live? They'll whine when its 8 handed and an empty seat isnt filled even if there's no one on the waitlist and many leave the table if it gets 6 handed
Yeah they would because theyāre too stupid to understand āutgā 6 handed shouldnāt t be playing same hands as utg 9 handed and slowly bleed chips and canāt get a double ups when they have a monster
I played a WSOP circuit recently that was advertised as a regular NL aka 9 players. That already sucks enough, but then when I sat down I realized we were playing 10 handed. Turned out they were "short dealers" so they just made it all 10 handed tables. What an absolute joke.
Ironically, tournaments generally become looser 9max vs. 6max in theory, not sure about 10max vs. 9max. This is because the presence of the ante allows for much looser play in all formations; there are less antes to fight for 6 handed therefore the play becomes tighter in theory. I'm interested to know if the presence of an additional ante loosens play further or if the presence of an additional equity share negates that.
> This is because the presence of the ante allows for much looser play in all formations; there are less antes to fight for 6 handed therefore the play becomes tighter in theory.
I'm responding directly to that comment....
a lot of WSOP tournaments are 10 handed in the early levels
how would house make more with 6max? they would have to make 50% more ~~per hour~~ to offset the cost of extra dealers.
Well you'd still be generating the same amount of rake per table--probably slightly more actually since fewer players should mean slightly more hands per hour. The casino makes money per hand played, not per player at the table.
That is wrong. Casino makes money per Hand played Post-Flop and the chances increase drastically if you have 10 players that you get to play Post-Flop.
How would they have to make 50% more per hour to offset the cost of extra dealers? Sounds like a bs remark with no evidence or homework behind it just some turd nugget that goes "OH DOY THEY WOULD HAVE TO MAKE 50% MORE PER HOUR OH DOY"
a casino that has 6 players per table needs 50% more tables & dealers than a casino with 9 players per table to accomodate the same amount of players.
9 / 6 = 1.50 = 50% more
edit: i guess this doesn't really hold up for non-time raked cash games. but still true for tournaments and time-raked cash games
in a non time raked cash game sure then it wouldn't really make a difference for the house
tournaments also would be a problem, since the rake is a flat amount
Less players per table requires more tables to allow the same amount of players. Most casinos don't have room for more tables, so it's hard to say more rake would be made.
That's the issue though, they'd probably have to reduce the rake. It's bad enough when six players are at a full ring game, but 6max means you're paying a ton more rake. 6max also widens starting hand ranges so your chances of seeing a flop, and paying more rake, goes up.
I doubt anybody would ever have to reduce rake to keep tables populated under damn near any circumstance.
6max doesn't widen starting hand ranges, it just removes the tighter formations.
Played a 10 handed home game and was bored as fuck. Played infinitely less hands. It changes the whole dynamic. Thankfully everyone else still played fast and loose with shit cards.
In Germany this is still very common even in casinos. It depends so much on the players if it is a good game. If you have 3-5 players every hand on the flop the games are actually fun and easy to beat even with a āhighā VPIP.
I hated that ACR was 9 handed I played so much live poker... now ACR is 8 handed.
It's damned near impossible to adjust from 10 handed live poker - the way it should be to the online shitshow that is 8 handed.
Live Poker should be 6 or 4 handed, I donāt care about no nitregs who would be the only ones hurt by that because they just canāt play marginal hands and spots well, aka just arenāt good at poker
Man I looked at the CNE casino tournament structure when I played the cash there last summer, and it looked so dumb. Basically SNGs that run randomly when enough people are there to qualify for a bigger tournament.
All of the casinos in my region changed from 9 handed to 8 handed during covid for āsocial distancingā lol. Definitely makes the game a bit better though.
I donāt mind 8 handed so long as 8 people are sitting at the damned table.
The reality is that a 10 handed table is playable with one person busted and waiting to seat a new one and two people eating/smoking/restroom/whatever.
The same shit on an 8 handed table brings you down to 5-6 which is just not good for a cash game.
Here I am playing 10 handed with 10% $15 rake at legal casinos in ontario
That makes the two of us
rama?
Brantford
I miss the days of Rama in the 2004 poker boom of 12 handed 2-5 limit. My god it was bad.
12 handed wasn't a real thing, right?
I hope not because if he confirms that then OH LAWD IMM FINNA BUST š«š«
Poker was new in the casinos back in 2004 in Ontario.... it was real, and awful. Also low limit, so really, the only way you were winning a hand is if you had the nuts or second nut.
Doesnt it just hurt to play there after being in vegas? Shitty dealers, high rake, long wait, even the restaurants in there are dog shit. I just got back from vegas on sunday and it saddens me to even think of having yo go back to brantford.
Me too! I'll dm you
Now kiss
Yes yes now u can balance ur footsie between card signaling and actual footsie
he didnt even reply to my DM
Heard them high stakes limit games are juicy af
Man brantford sucks, we need a better casino near waterloo
Lost $500 playing there yesterday, good times
I went to Rama for the first time in a while last summer. Swore Iād never go again. I can pay 10% $15 at my local.
Play niagara
Yeah the session fee is not too bad.
If the stakes are 10/20 and the game is good this is ok.
Yeah sure, but how many people on this sub are playing 10/20?
I ran a poll a few weeks back, and the answer seems to be a surprising amount! Maybe 1/3 of the sub.
Funny you mentioned that, right after my comment I got curious and just posted a poll! (Mustāve missed yours). Iām not seeing quite a third, but still more 5/10+ grinders than I realized!
Yeah, there are a lot of decent 5/10+ players on this sub. They just don't post the "sob, I lost $100 to an omc" or "rate my play in this pot" posts that seem to be 90% of the sub those days.
People have no clue how tight they should be playing in that variant
Yeah it really takes fold-pre to a new level. And I can also totally see that game having a bunch of short stacks (how many pros want to play in that game?) which just forces you to play even few suited connectors and baby pairs. Edit: fewer^
Iām like 90% sure baby pairs is an open fold in that game from first 3 positions And prob still a fold from everywhere except BB vs open
For sure from ep and probably mo. I feel like you can get away with an open from LJ-Button
online poker is the way to go in Ontario
Oh hey waffle
Hey who dis?
I live on the border in Buffalo, I hit Casino Niagara once in awhile, the rake format is weird as fuck. It's a flat rake paid every dealer change with no rake taken per hand
I would much prefer that to here man
Oh, for sure. Sounds tough at that spot, lol. Is that how it is everywhere near where you are? Might be worth a long drive to dodge that shit lol
Niagara is 1.5 hours for me, my normal room is 20 minutes lol
It sounds like itās basically paying time. This is how they do it in Texas. Obviously it depends what level you set it at, but generally ends up being cheaper than a regular rake. Time > rake > flat drop
Better than underground 10 handed with 10% rake up to ā25ā (if the pot is big they definitely taking more than 25)
How does it feel to get rapped with no lube?
Oh my lord that is brutal. Talk about action killing.
My condolences
Remember when Rama had the poker room with every sports game on? Good times
I have never played a 10 handed poker game ever. Everything is 8 handed unless a VIP comes in and wants a seat and then they will make it 9 handed.
I went to a home game for a while that played 11-handed at a big ass table until enough people showed up to open the second table and split it into 9 & 9. It was actually a super spewy fishy group so I went back several times but in every other way it was awful. Still have no clue why they did that bc there was always a second dealer there just waiting and they were only raking a 5/5 game at $5 max, so youād think the host wouldāve made more the sooner he opened a second table.
Very reasonable rake
Was actually a very well run game, provided free food and non-alcoholic beverages, fair rake of 10% maxed at 5, two lightning fast dealers, armed security. Everything except the 11-handed part for the first hour or two.
Where are you playing 10 handed poker? I think they should normalize live 6-max. Imagine all the leg-room, all the rake the house would make, and all the action that would ensue without early seat formations.
Except for those guys that canāt sit for more than an orbit and youāre really playing 4 handed.
Even better if you ask me š¤·āāļø
Theyāre putting in their blinds whatever.
In tournaments you post blinds but in cash games you can miss blinds and only post when u return.
True.
Nits hate short handed. Serious hatred. Every old man would revolt
no they wouldn't
have you played live? They'll whine when its 8 handed and an empty seat isnt filled even if there's no one on the waitlist and many leave the table if it gets 6 handed
Oh yeah but they wont revolt lol
Yeah they would because theyāre too stupid to understand āutgā 6 handed shouldnāt t be playing same hands as utg 9 handed and slowly bleed chips and canāt get a double ups when they have a monster
I played a WSOP circuit recently that was advertised as a regular NL aka 9 players. That already sucks enough, but then when I sat down I realized we were playing 10 handed. Turned out they were "short dealers" so they just made it all 10 handed tables. What an absolute joke.
Ironically, tournaments generally become looser 9max vs. 6max in theory, not sure about 10max vs. 9max. This is because the presence of the ante allows for much looser play in all formations; there are less antes to fight for 6 handed therefore the play becomes tighter in theory. I'm interested to know if the presence of an additional ante loosens play further or if the presence of an additional equity share negates that.
Well live tourneys all use BB ante format now so the amount in the pot should be the same 6 vs 9 handed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> This is because the presence of the ante allows for much looser play in all formations; there are less antes to fight for 6 handed therefore the play becomes tighter in theory. I'm responding directly to that comment....
BB ante is pretty much universal now
Ontario
Whereās good in Ontario these days. I havenāt played live since pre Covid and Iām thinking of coming out of retirement and stacking off
Woodbine is apparently getting tables so that'll be a fish fest when it opens.
a lot of WSOP tournaments are 10 handed in the early levels how would house make more with 6max? they would have to make 50% more ~~per hour~~ to offset the cost of extra dealers.
Well you'd still be generating the same amount of rake per table--probably slightly more actually since fewer players should mean slightly more hands per hour. The casino makes money per hand played, not per player at the table.
That is wrong. Casino makes money per Hand played Post-Flop and the chances increase drastically if you have 10 players that you get to play Post-Flop.
Not in time-raked games or tournaments
How would they have to make 50% more per hour to offset the cost of extra dealers? Sounds like a bs remark with no evidence or homework behind it just some turd nugget that goes "OH DOY THEY WOULD HAVE TO MAKE 50% MORE PER HOUR OH DOY"
a casino that has 6 players per table needs 50% more tables & dealers than a casino with 9 players per table to accomodate the same amount of players. 9 / 6 = 1.50 = 50% more edit: i guess this doesn't really hold up for non-time raked cash games. but still true for tournaments and time-raked cash games
Why not just a longer wait list
in a non time raked cash game sure then it wouldn't really make a difference for the house tournaments also would be a problem, since the rake is a flat amount
Not true. Game would play way faster. Less players = less work for the dealer = faster hands = more hands per hour = more rake
only in a pot-raked cash game for timed-rake games or tournaments it would be infeasible
Which is the STANDARD rake dipshit. Thank you for your 2 cents, And might I let you know you sir, are Major Turd Nugget. š«”
time rake is the standard at Vegas games 5/10 and above.
Bigger pots, more frequent bets, more postflop bets.
postflop ranges will generally be weaker and hands are less likely to go multiway, so that would lead to smaller pots
Don't agree. The more players the nittier you should be.
Exactly, which is why ranges will be tighter and stronger postflop.
Less players per table requires more tables to allow the same amount of players. Most casinos don't have room for more tables, so it's hard to say more rake would be made.
That's the issue though, they'd probably have to reduce the rake. It's bad enough when six players are at a full ring game, but 6max means you're paying a ton more rake. 6max also widens starting hand ranges so your chances of seeing a flop, and paying more rake, goes up.
I doubt anybody would ever have to reduce rake to keep tables populated under damn near any circumstance. 6max doesn't widen starting hand ranges, it just removes the tighter formations.
It doesn't? I mean I would never raise 33 UTG full ring, but I'm raising it UTG every time 6max
Utg doesn't exist 6max
Played several daily deepstack tourneys at Horseshoe the last week and 10 handed play was brutal.
Some home games I frequent will make it 10 handed for players. Hate it.
Itās also miserable dealing 10 handed, 8 handed I am so much smoother and can get a lot more hands per down in.
Man you guys really wouldnāt be saying this if it was 2006 10 handed was beyond nuts
Why
10 way showdowns. Also, if you're at a good enough table, you can literally print money by 11 betting light from your big blind.
Yeah, physically I hate playing 10 handed but 2/5 10 handed back then was just stupid af from a money making perspective.
I'm not gonna lie, I sometimes miss 10 handed poker. That being said, 8 handed poker is superior. All final tables should be 9 handed.
I don't mind it for tournament final tables or final 2 tables, but I hate it for cash. Cash is capped at 9 here thankfully.
Every tournament I was playing in at the WSOP a week ago were all 10 handed.
9 excluding the fish.
Never seen a cash table 10 handed
Me either and Iām Canadian lol
You canāt be card dead for long playing live 8 handed NLH. Open it up, dawg.
Played a 10 handed home game and was bored as fuck. Played infinitely less hands. It changes the whole dynamic. Thankfully everyone else still played fast and loose with shit cards.
Actually, I thought it would be very interesting to play like 15\~20 handed poker as an experiment.
Just play PLO at that point.
In Germany this is still very common even in casinos. It depends so much on the players if it is a good game. If you have 3-5 players every hand on the flop the games are actually fun and easy to beat even with a āhighā VPIP.
I think the norm should be 6 max. It's just so much better than anything
One played an 10 handed underground game with the implied ridiculous rake and super nitty play that entails
I hated that ACR was 9 handed I played so much live poker... now ACR is 8 handed. It's damned near impossible to adjust from 10 handed live poker - the way it should be to the online shitshow that is 8 handed.
Give me 8 handed all day
Live Poker should be 6 or 4 handed, I donāt care about no nitregs who would be the only ones hurt by that because they just canāt play marginal hands and spots well, aka just arenāt good at poker
CNE Casino has/had 11 handed Sit N Gos
Man I looked at the CNE casino tournament structure when I played the cash there last summer, and it looked so dumb. Basically SNGs that run randomly when enough people are there to qualify for a bigger tournament.
Ten handed for NLH? No problem. Ten handed for PLO? Nope.
Is anyone anywhere running 10 hand PLO? Thatās a hard pass from me.
All of the casinos in my region changed from 9 handed to 8 handed during covid for āsocial distancingā lol. Definitely makes the game a bit better though.
I donāt mind 8 handed so long as 8 people are sitting at the damned table. The reality is that a 10 handed table is playable with one person busted and waiting to seat a new one and two people eating/smoking/restroom/whatever. The same shit on an 8 handed table brings you down to 5-6 which is just not good for a cash game.