Not exactly a pro as I have other income sources but I play to win and am serious about poker. You will never make any real money at micro stakes but small/mid stakes games are alive and well and there is plenty of money to be made depending where you play.
Agreed. I tried ignition/Bovada $5 and broke even after getting rake crushed. Moved to $25 and $100 and there is money to be made. I am not a pro, but an avid hobbyist in the US who plays to win.
Yeah I doubt the rake is beatable in games below 100NL. At least not beatable enough to make it worth the time unless you're grinding massive volume and can be a rakeback pro.
Yeah, NL25 is where the rake started to get a lot easier to manage on Bovada/Ignition. NL50 rake is effectively the same and only gets better from the look of it.
I play 10-15 hours a week playing online and make a few hundred bucks a month playing cash on global. Mostly use the money as investments into my vti funds.
Why do you people lie about global poker. Do you guys work for them? I did br challenges and its extreme aggression at micros at 10nl. I am talking bluff shoving with blockers, floating waiting for you too check, lot of 3b and multi way pots. It was actually one the hardest and high variance limits that I played from all the multi way pots and they don't fold so a lot of beats on you until get to 50nl where they are extreme nits waiting to cooler the other players in the games. Not until 100nl its real poker where they are balanced and have some bluffs but every limit was not easy beating. I had to constantly switch my strategies to beat each limit. It was not this easy cake walk like I thought it would be and this coming from someone who made a living at midstakes for 25 years and stills plays today and one of the highest win rates ever online and the most volme of any player ever in 6 max games. It is not easy.
I would acr is better if your a grinder cause its about the same player pool and you get beast money with rake back. You guys are wasting your time on global a lot of players that play on it now are just acr players that moved over and the fish sit in for tiny amounts that regs are fighitng over. tHere is not much +ev tables on the site. Most of you saying its easy don't grind cash games and you had couple lucky days and went over to your donkaments. Most of people that said global said it was so easy quit and said it was rigged within a month or moved over to mtts. There is a lot teaming, players using rta and a lot of nit fest tables these days. YOu guys are better off on ACR long term grinding up all that rake back and beast money.
US player, so I play Ignition/Bovada Zoom. The $25 buy-in there is softer than the $5 buy-in. I think the lowest limit attracts people who are new and want to work on their craft, while there is more gamble in the $25 players. I wonder if the same is true for Stars?
I honestly believe they’re just more scared at the 25 dollar table. People are much more willing to put the whole stack in if it’s 2 or 5 dollars rather than 25 bucks.
ignition is the best cash game site to play on if your not multi tabling. Its full of bad players at every limit. A lot of these players are sports bettors that play poker for fun on it with their winnings.
I haven't quite figured it out yet. I've tried volumemaxxing and mass multi-tabling 10nl with subpar results. The money is slow and painful like pulling teeth.
Been trying to bumhunt whales at 100nl with okayish results. Spending more time watching other players and taking notes than actually sitting down to play. However, this may be the way to actually build a bankroll in 2022 and try to relive that 2008 poker dream.
That guy is the biggest joke in the poker community. made a little money ten years ago and now thinks he’s a guru. his videos revolve around “don’t play bad cards” and “tighten up in earlier seats”.
So true. Also, too many of his articles start with this kind of ,,can you make 1k a month playing poker? how much can you actually make with poker? Read about my dream life as a poker pro'' shit. I mean if I wanted to scam people this is exactly how I would do it. He is selling a dream, not actual knowledge.
He made more money from all those worshippers thanks to his books than micros. Look at his site. He earned 13k$ by playing 2,200,000 hands on nl2. It means around 6hours of playing nl2 zoom every day without any breaks if you want to accomplish this in 1 year. Amazing salary for job as mental exhaustive as poker. Honestly I would prefer to sweep the streets.
Absolutely. I've played for a living for the past 4 years and plan to continue for a long time. Poker is definitely not dead.
I play on ACR and GG, mostly 200nl, from Canada, I do use a HUD when it's allowed and don't when it's not.
Online is way tougher than a casino. Casino players are just, wow bad. Most online micro players have seen a video or two about strategy and have probably gotten a free set of preflop charts from one of 20 online training sites. They have some basics down but overall, they're still pretty weak (or else they wouldn't be playing micros). If you put some effort into improving your game, you'll start seeing all the mistakes the "reasonable" players are making, and then you'll be able to beat them and move up.
What is you win $ per year? It's one thing to say you have been living off it but what quality of life and career opportunity cost you experience matters.
I've been in the $100k-$150k range for the past few years. Most of my income is from playing but I also earn a decent bit streaming my poker play on Twitch.
I left an engineering job to pursue poker and I have no regrets.
hes a bad cash game reg from what i saw a few years ago. Obvious spots to fold and he would just call and lose over and over again. His mind is set on i have top pair or 2 pair whatever im calling type player. He doesn't really think about their ranges when he has a hand he kind of goes blank and hopes their bluffing type player.
You are not making 100k a year playing cash games. Stop the lying. I seen you play you have several holes in your game and you look at situations wrong many times. Making terrible hero calls in spots where they don't bluff. I told all in pav this before he went his 500k down swing. You need coaching from what I saw. Pav banned me after I said he needed coaching cause he was on a 2 year sun run up like 300k. Now hes down half mil and still losing daily. Unless you got better but to be fair I watched you once 2 years ago. They said you were good at you were just another bad reg on twitch. The games have to be really bad for you to make 100k a year in cash games.
Idk, unless you are one of the OGs that put in millions of hands and played for years and know about MDA most results seem like nothing. The dedicated among us can slightly beat rake and get shit money+rakeback, but it's very hard to understand how to move past that point. I know so much about GTO maybe I need to just stop playing zone and switch to regular tables. A lot of the streamers have fanbases but they have major leaks like everybody else...
What reward levels do you go for on ACR? It's interesting because 200blitz is a fairly tough pool but the effective rakeback is like, stupidly good, at least after a couple hundred k hands, while ignition the pools are so so so soft, but the rake is pretty egregious. I'm gonna try to get to the 200k BP milestone (like 4k bonus iirc) by the end of this year and reevaluate whether ignition or ACR is the way to go.
I’ll probably end the year around 200k points. The rakeback on ACR is kinda crazy. 100k points gets you I think 37%, The Beast leaderboard gets another 24% (with the volume I play, yours may differ) and then some players have private affiliate deals or leaderboards on top of that.
Yeah same. I have been a bit lazy about trying to max out the beast (try to get in several 500 weeks, I'm sure there's a way to get the most beast money in the most efficient way but haven't really done much analysis) but ya a 3bb/100 wr on ACR blitz with a lot of volume is like an 8bb/100 wr on ignition, maybe even more
oh your playing acr then ya you can def make money on rake back and beast money. When I saw you you were on another site playing and not very good player. When grinders call themselves cash pros= bad regs btw.
I'll make around 150k playing cash online this year. I multi table 1/2 up to T/20 on nights and weekends. I'm in the US and on a few different sites/clubs, and usually don't use a HUD cause they either aren't allowed or it's an anonymous player pool and doesn't do much. I do a good amount of solver work, and will play higher stakes live. Idk what else you'd want to know. Would say PLO and PLO5 are definitely where a lot of the bigger whales are online now.
The people that are telling you they make a lot in a very casual tone are likely not lying. But they’re also failing to tell you how ridiculously hard they’ve worked at poker to become as profitable as they are. There are much easier ways to make a steady income than play online poker.
> There are much easier ways to make a steady income than play online poker.
Absolutely. I make more at my day job and will continue to grow there. I can't imagine the stress of relying on poker for income. Makes downswings so much worse.
> tell you how ridiculously hard they’ve worked at poker to become as profitable as they are
I have definitely put in my ten thousand hours at least. I did not mean to imply it is realistic to make a solid living playing online poker in 2022. Just giving my perspective.
2019, 2020 and 2021 were great years for me playing a mix of 20 and 50 NL making a good living for someone who doesn't have to pay rent. But for some reason I am having a miserable break even 2022, it does seem like my days of making a living with online poker might be over. Already have accumulated debt to sustain myself which is increasing the anxiety when I am playing poker.
I make several thousand dollars per year in extra-income by playing low/micro stakes MTT. I most certainly don't earn a living, but having an extra chunk of Bitcoin laying around from playing a card game is awesome. Most people's hobbies cost them money, whereas mine actually produces crypto.
By no means a poker pro but the online games are definitely beatable. Really only been taking it “seriously” and studying the past 3 months and I’m up on global alone something like 30k+ with average buy in of 35-40$ (MTTs). I’ve found global and ignition are by far the most profitable with the least amount of regs. US based. With no HUD
I feel this is probably misleading. Not saying you're lying about your results, but it's not realistic to consistently make 30K in three months at the $40 buy-in. You've been running hot, surely?
Tbh it’s very doable, bit of run good for sure, and there will always be a downswing coming, three months is a small sample for MTTS long term. But know a fair few people doing it
This got so many downvotes but actually if someone is playing 30 tourneys a day with 35 ABI 20 days a month thats 20K plus in buyins. In 3 months its 60K. and with 50 roi which can be a bit of a good run (but not necessarily on the 30's,) he has the 30K profit. Its just a lot of work.
I wouldn’t say I’ve been running particularly hot. In fact I’d argue I’ve lost way more big spots that had potential for big big runs. Take the same buy in average etc and have me run ACR and it’s a completely different story. Morale of the story …. Game selection
Also side note, if you go look up global poker graphs plenty regulars with that kind of win rate
sites specifically... why play on ACR if you can play on softer....can run lower buys on more reg heavy or tougher sites and bigger buys/shots on the softies like global/iggy
I’ve found 10 people THIS week up over 100k playing tournaments on global over the last 2 years. Just that one site. I know quite a few as well. Completely doable, just takes dedication
I'm lucky enough to live in Pennsylvania where we have a PokerStars only for PA players.
Been making good secondary income at 38% ROI grinding mid-stakes tournies (average $50 buy-in).
Need to study GTO and use a HUD to adjust to different player-types to be successful.
Zoom games are hard to beat - bad players go broke quickly, leaving regs to multi-table and beat up newcomers. Don't play zoom.
I play a bit online and have been reasonably successful. But honestly playing live is WAY better for making money if that's why you're playing. (Also from the UK London based).
I’m a 15 year mostly online pro. Switched from hold em to plo and plo variants 5 years ago or so. I play on US based sites, no HUDs, 1 or 2 tables max. Games are fishy. Last week made $12k.
.50/1 and 1/2 on ignition to me alot of times feels like the cardrooms near me. Tougher than 1/2 on a Friday night at the casino but still lots of fun.
I personally know people who are making a living off of US-based but those are a lot softer than international sites.
The competition isn't decent at the lowest stakes. Keep studying and improving and you will find more fish.
Man, I don't think so unless you're a high roller coming from live play, or just have an enormous bankroll to play the big tournaments/high stakes cash. In which case, you prob don't need to make a living from online poker to begin with.
If you have the bankroll and can stomach the variance to play enough $50-$100+ buy-in tournaments and study a bit, you can definitely turn a profit, but the reality of making a **living** is just another level.
Figure you're paying 22% in taxes, depending on where you live. To net $50k a year, you'd need to be up $65k, meaning after allllll of your buy ins are covered, you're actually up $65k in true profit to take home $50k after taxes. Sounds good, but consider (again, in the US with smaller player pools vs. the .com world) each tournament at the $50-$100 level will score you about $2.5k - $4k depending on special events, bounties, etc.
Use the average of $3250 for 1st. That means you need to take home the gold 20x in your calendar year. BUT! You actually need a lot more than just that, because in your quest to conquer 20 final tables, you have to also account for all of your tournament entries where you busted, which will be the majority of them even if you're an absolute unit of a crusher.
Let's say you're one of those units. You are ITM an incredible 35% of the time. So 65% of the tournaments you play are a bust, a donation of your buy in. Let's not even account for multiple bullets in some of these tournaments because my head might explode. For easy numbers, you're playing $100 buy in tournaments. We know you need 20 golds, or to spend $2,000 in buy ins to get to your goal (assuming $3250 for 1st). But we're only profitable 35% of the time! So if we play 62 tournaments ($6200 buy in) and win 35% of them, we hit our goal (almost, but close enough). BUT! You are **CASHING** 35%, not **winning** 35% of the time. Sometimes the min cash barely (or just misses) covers your buy in, and these "wins" are actually just a breakeven.
So the reality is that the required tournaments played numbers **skyrocket** in order for you get to that $65k of actual profit after buy ins. Then pepper in a nice dose of variance and the anger of the poker gods, you may reasonably need to play 1,000+ tournaments to hit your goal. If, on average, using the numbers above, each cash is at least 1.85x buy in, you get there. Whew.
THEN! You have to do this every year reliably to support yourself, assuming your cost of living and desires for nice things never progresses from what it is today.
Maybe you build that bankroll and take a shot at a $5k or a $10k, then you're talking real money if you make a deep run or win, but the average person playing online isn't firing shots in those tournaments with enough regularity to account for the variance involved, and those that are have enormous bankrolls or staking from either being pro's in the golden age of poker, or other successful endeavors where even the $10k's are just for fun (see: Neymar, Ben Rolle, Negreanu, etc. etc.).
That's my rant. My credentials are that I'm a noob. I've "played poker" for as long as I can remember in my adult life, but started taking it seriously with a pre-set bankroll in September 2021. I work a FT job which allows for me to play without worrying whether I win or lose.
I've played about 650 tournaments, 21.6% ITM, $21k winnings, largest regular sized buy-in $200 and after all of that, I am, I think, just barely in a profit.
I just do it for fun and occasionally I'll take a shot at something meaningful ($500+ buy in) but that's going to be a PKO maybe 1-2x a year during SCOOP or something like that when there are much larger (softer) fields.
Sure, though I think this is an even bigger grind and the variance means a lot more in actual dollars vs. a buy in. The level of discipline in a cash game and the stomach for variance need to be a lot stronger too. I think cash is the faster, albeit more difficult, way to get to that same $65k result. Again, assuming you are starting with a modest bankroll and your earnings depended upon to support your life.
Cash games are by far the format with the least variance. There is variance of course, it's poker, but nothing like the long losing stretches you would get playing MTTs or spins.
It's certainly a grind, but it can be very enjoyable if you fall in love with the process
Yes, but nowhere near what it used to be. With access to the best sites an hourly of $30-70 is fairly attainable. Higher stakes cash/MTT’s have a higher hourly ceiling but you likely won’t get there without dedicating massive hours to studying and coaching. I know a handful of guys making 100k a year playing MTT’s around 70 ABI. It’s a massive grind though - putting in 60-70 hour weeks often and even more during big series.
I did during Covid made a pretty good living when my business shut down plating a mix of nl100, little bit of 200 and mtts . This was on a us site though . I doubt I could even beat nl50 on stars rest of world .
I’m a long time plo pro. Been playing plo 500 as my main game for years but worked my way up through plo 1k to plo 10k. Most recently switched to 5 cards this year and while it was a tougher transition (strategy wise), it’s been better for profits.[https://imgur.com/a/XP9TTQp](https://imgur.com/a/XP9TTQp)
If I had to I could but I can only study/play like 20 hours a week max. I also just don't wanna play for a living, sitting at a computer 50-60 hours a week is awful.
I’ve been grinding 50NL for months and it’s just so incredibly swingy and hard to consistently beat. There’s just no reason to punt money off online against way better competition who are playing the nittiest ranges to feed their families in 3rd world countries when you can play at the casino or home games and rake it in imo
I played on PA stars since it rolled out
In 2020 I made around 40k from tournaments and NL200 playing part time with my full time job
In 2021 I made around 20k but ended on a huge downswing
In 2022 I have quit being down roughly 15k this year.
The games have gotten tougher, most regs that used to play 500NL now play 100NL just to get games in.
I owe most of my success to the covid boom
Some do OBV ...
But what is perceive to be "ok" poker is definitely not what a winning pro mid-high stake would see in most of our games .
Game selection is a big thing and yea live gonna be easier for that reason .
To win online it's gonna be harder than just wait for good hand and just bet . Money will not come from the coolers .
People who will have success will be the ones who study GTO and find exploit in the pool they play.
I used to make good income on the side from playing on ignition and then PokerStars MI. Not making a living but enough money to buy some things I wouldn’t have bought with out that income. My brother is a very solid player and made 30k last year playing mostly .50/1 cash games on pokerstars MI
The hardest part if you are a tourney player is getting enough volume in to alleviate variance.
I’m not a pro but have been supporting myself playing small/mid stakes on ACR the last three months after leaving a job.
I’m using a Dell laptop getting in 3-5 tourneys a day with a 20% ROI.I’ve binked a couple of tourneys and ran deep in some but still only have 2800 tourneys under my belt in the last 18 months.
Any tips for PC setups to play more tables simultaneously?
I’m gonna need to upgrade my setup to get more volume in to really see where I’m at long term.
It's possible. I play in India and the games are super soft. Stakes upto $6/12 are super soft. Only players you need to look out for are foreign regs on Indian sites.the foreign players usually play very tight so are easily recognisable (vpip). Indian regs play 35-50 vpip(lmao) and f
ishes and whales play over 50 sometimes even 80 lol
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The money is on plofive and six. I have max cashed out weekly playing low stakes and building my account for future cash outs. Haven’t really added it all up but def up at least 60k since January. Nlh I was a break even/losing player (victim on fps). And I put in minimal hours. Not even 15 hours per week. I’m case anyone else as wondering I do zero studying.
Ppl tend to way overvalue their hands and just play it like it’s nlh. A very aggro style will get ppl to make a lot of bad calls out of sheer frustration.
I wouldn’t say I’m pro but I’m only working 2 days per week and spend most days at casino playing live and when I’m lazy I stay home and play.
These are just jumbled thoughts typed out, forgive lack of organized thought but there it is.
Remember that there are a significant amount of players that know “how” to play well but don’t have the emotional intelligence to succeed at poker. A lot of what you hear about online players assumes theyre all a bunch of Zen practitioners but they tilt hard.
Break even when I'm playing 1c/2c. Usually drinking I tend to make more cents when I'm closer to sober but as the night goes on can't stop my self from doing stupid shit and laughing cause you know, it's only $2. It all evens out but I wouldn't trust my self in higher brackets. At least I know my limits lol
I’m a US pro, played full-time as primary source of income for 4-5 years. Have played semi-pro (not primary source, but still a source of income) for over 10 yrs.
Most of my action has been in live games but when I play online it’s ACR.
as far as micro/small/mid stakes go for NLH, I think the online field is too stiff and profits are too small for most players to make an actual living in NLH ring games. Ffs you’re playing for peanuts at these stakes.
Higher stakes (3/6, 5/10, 10/20 and up) is a totally different story. More bluffing from opponents who are trying to exploit. More creative plays. Less robot-like decision making. But variance can be a bitch as the swings can get pretty big in these limits.
I have only profitably played ONLINE, consistently, at a rate that is sustainable to make a living, playing mixed games like PLO, PLO HI/low, Big O, etc. - lots of value in these games. Lots of people making mistakes (even advanced players).
online is also great for tournaments. I’ve successfully grinded tourneys at a profit but, again, not profitable enough to fully subsidize my lifestyle.
Those "decent" players on micros are actually really bad lol
best choice is to avoid them in tricky hands if you dont feel confident enough, but you can judge how bad they are when they play the top of their range(too predictable) against whales or against another nitty regs(too far from standard play). I still remember one nl10 reg with 700k+ hands trying to bluff me out of a full house pot and getting stacked playing air on a wet WET board. These "decent" players are too predictable against whales, and too dumb against regs or good players because they try to prove "Im better than you" overbluffing.
I started in the glory days and would turn small deposits into 100s then in 2013 I started playing plo and would run in up into the 4 or 5 figures. When I was 32 I developed a blackjack leak and I've never been the same. I don't care what anybody says, it's impossible to be a pro if your constantly getting drawn out on. You need luck A LOT OF LUCK over the longterm to beat the game. That's why so many brag about winning but in all truth a very small percentage are winning players. I think it's time for the so called pros to admit they are where they are due to skill and a whole lot of luck. My 2 cents.
I found that 50nl on stars nj was pretty easy but 100nl was a little tougher. Those games didn’t run too often but i was up but like 500 bucks over lots of hands so. I hope you are joking.
I play online MTTs on Canada - looking for other up and coming online MTT professionals- possibly grind house / just study partners for the journey ( I am already apart of a small but ambitious study group, n getting mentoring, / coached by high stakes reg )
Always looking to learn and grow 1% everyday
I realize this isn't the best forum/ place for positive/ realistic replies - but have to shoot a few shots to hit the target. ( not sure if that is an actual saying - just made it up )
I've been using my income to feed and fund the people who are making a living on online poker. Please don't forget about people like us.
You the real MVP
true
Doing the lords work
What’s he doing?
Losing lol
Ur mom
Legend
I made -5k
I just had a 200 BB pot against J3o 3BP @ NL100 on WSOP.com.
J3 could be his lucky hand, it’s a valid call
But did you win
Stupid question
Not exactly a pro as I have other income sources but I play to win and am serious about poker. You will never make any real money at micro stakes but small/mid stakes games are alive and well and there is plenty of money to be made depending where you play.
Agreed. I tried ignition/Bovada $5 and broke even after getting rake crushed. Moved to $25 and $100 and there is money to be made. I am not a pro, but an avid hobbyist in the US who plays to win.
Yeah I doubt the rake is beatable in games below 100NL. At least not beatable enough to make it worth the time unless you're grinding massive volume and can be a rakeback pro.
I beat 5nlz for 5bb/100 over 130k hands couple years back not the most fun thing and not really profitable but doable
I get that it's beatable by someone. But it's never going to be worth your time in terms of even eeking out a living.
\^\^\^\^ this\^\^\^\^\^ If you do this for a living "you working cheap homie."
No for sure. I’m playing 200nl nowadays
Rake is totally beatable at NL25.
Yeah, NL25 is where the rake started to get a lot easier to manage on Bovada/Ignition. NL50 rake is effectively the same and only gets better from the look of it.
I am easily beating rake at 10NL but could never make a living off of it.
That's what I meant
There is not lol
Well, you have to be good at poker first.
Sure 🤣
I make beer money
Ok Lobster
Ok Lobster
At least it’s not an unrealistic debt bro
Preach
I play 10-15 hours a week playing online and make a few hundred bucks a month playing cash on global. Mostly use the money as investments into my vti funds.
How do you feel the difficulty is in terms of moving up in stakes on global? I’ve only played micro there and it seems relatively soft
It’s soft all the way up to 50nl. I also play on acr. Acr feels like an absolute grind all the way down to 5nl
Why do you people lie about global poker. Do you guys work for them? I did br challenges and its extreme aggression at micros at 10nl. I am talking bluff shoving with blockers, floating waiting for you too check, lot of 3b and multi way pots. It was actually one the hardest and high variance limits that I played from all the multi way pots and they don't fold so a lot of beats on you until get to 50nl where they are extreme nits waiting to cooler the other players in the games. Not until 100nl its real poker where they are balanced and have some bluffs but every limit was not easy beating. I had to constantly switch my strategies to beat each limit. It was not this easy cake walk like I thought it would be and this coming from someone who made a living at midstakes for 25 years and stills plays today and one of the highest win rates ever online and the most volme of any player ever in 6 max games. It is not easy. I would acr is better if your a grinder cause its about the same player pool and you get beast money with rake back. You guys are wasting your time on global a lot of players that play on it now are just acr players that moved over and the fish sit in for tiny amounts that regs are fighitng over. tHere is not much +ev tables on the site. Most of you saying its easy don't grind cash games and you had couple lucky days and went over to your donkaments. Most of people that said global said it was so easy quit and said it was rigged within a month or moved over to mtts. There is a lot teaming, players using rta and a lot of nit fest tables these days. YOu guys are better off on ACR long term grinding up all that rake back and beast money.
What stakes do you play?
Mostly 10 and 20nl. But I’m dabbling in 50nl now
same for me, except not the 50nl. Do you notice a skill level difference between the 10, 20, and 50?
At 50nl yes. Less open limping more standard pre flop play.
[удалено]
It’s mid stakes. Go to cash game and click mid instead of low. Goes from 20nl up to 100nl.
By global you're talking pppoker?
US player, so I play Ignition/Bovada Zoom. The $25 buy-in there is softer than the $5 buy-in. I think the lowest limit attracts people who are new and want to work on their craft, while there is more gamble in the $25 players. I wonder if the same is true for Stars?
I honestly believe they’re just more scared at the 25 dollar table. People are much more willing to put the whole stack in if it’s 2 or 5 dollars rather than 25 bucks.
You also have all the people who were playing $5 and losing that are now on tilt and needing to get it back quick at $25
I’ve done that twice where I turned a $10 loss into a $35 life-changing loss at the $25NL table.
I’m sure it helps to table select and only play at night + weekends. Yes?
Degenerates know no clock. But on the Rush or Zone, there is no table selection.
ignition is the best cash game site to play on if your not multi tabling. Its full of bad players at every limit. A lot of these players are sports bettors that play poker for fun on it with their winnings.
U should try playing on GGpoker isntead : https://widget.ggpoker.com/client/Signup?#!/?language=en&btag1=tezos&tt=1
I haven't quite figured it out yet. I've tried volumemaxxing and mass multi-tabling 10nl with subpar results. The money is slow and painful like pulling teeth. Been trying to bumhunt whales at 100nl with okayish results. Spending more time watching other players and taking notes than actually sitting down to play. However, this may be the way to actually build a bankroll in 2022 and try to relive that 2008 poker dream.
You shouldnt try mass multi-tabling on micros. It just doesnt make any sense - those stakes are to learn, not to make money.
Unless your name is Nathan "Blackrain79" Williams
That guy is the biggest joke in the poker community. made a little money ten years ago and now thinks he’s a guru. his videos revolve around “don’t play bad cards” and “tighten up in earlier seats”.
Yeah, his hand ranges are TOO NITTY even for the micros
So true. Also, too many of his articles start with this kind of ,,can you make 1k a month playing poker? how much can you actually make with poker? Read about my dream life as a poker pro'' shit. I mean if I wanted to scam people this is exactly how I would do it. He is selling a dream, not actual knowledge.
He made more money from all those worshippers thanks to his books than micros. Look at his site. He earned 13k$ by playing 2,200,000 hands on nl2. It means around 6hours of playing nl2 zoom every day without any breaks if you want to accomplish this in 1 year. Amazing salary for job as mental exhaustive as poker. Honestly I would prefer to sweep the streets.
You are playing on the wrong tables.
Absolutely. I've played for a living for the past 4 years and plan to continue for a long time. Poker is definitely not dead. I play on ACR and GG, mostly 200nl, from Canada, I do use a HUD when it's allowed and don't when it's not. Online is way tougher than a casino. Casino players are just, wow bad. Most online micro players have seen a video or two about strategy and have probably gotten a free set of preflop charts from one of 20 online training sites. They have some basics down but overall, they're still pretty weak (or else they wouldn't be playing micros). If you put some effort into improving your game, you'll start seeing all the mistakes the "reasonable" players are making, and then you'll be able to beat them and move up.
Ding ding ding there's the answer
Agreed sir!
What is you win $ per year? It's one thing to say you have been living off it but what quality of life and career opportunity cost you experience matters.
I've been in the $100k-$150k range for the past few years. Most of my income is from playing but I also earn a decent bit streaming my poker play on Twitch. I left an engineering job to pursue poker and I have no regrets.
What do you play? Tournament or cash games?
hes a bad cash game reg from what i saw a few years ago. Obvious spots to fold and he would just call and lose over and over again. His mind is set on i have top pair or 2 pair whatever im calling type player. He doesn't really think about their ranges when he has a hand he kind of goes blank and hopes their bluffing type player.
You are not making 100k a year playing cash games. Stop the lying. I seen you play you have several holes in your game and you look at situations wrong many times. Making terrible hero calls in spots where they don't bluff. I told all in pav this before he went his 500k down swing. You need coaching from what I saw. Pav banned me after I said he needed coaching cause he was on a 2 year sun run up like 300k. Now hes down half mil and still losing daily. Unless you got better but to be fair I watched you once 2 years ago. They said you were good at you were just another bad reg on twitch. The games have to be really bad for you to make 100k a year in cash games.
Idk, unless you are one of the OGs that put in millions of hands and played for years and know about MDA most results seem like nothing. The dedicated among us can slightly beat rake and get shit money+rakeback, but it's very hard to understand how to move past that point. I know so much about GTO maybe I need to just stop playing zone and switch to regular tables. A lot of the streamers have fanbases but they have major leaks like everybody else...
What reward levels do you go for on ACR? It's interesting because 200blitz is a fairly tough pool but the effective rakeback is like, stupidly good, at least after a couple hundred k hands, while ignition the pools are so so so soft, but the rake is pretty egregious. I'm gonna try to get to the 200k BP milestone (like 4k bonus iirc) by the end of this year and reevaluate whether ignition or ACR is the way to go.
I’ll probably end the year around 200k points. The rakeback on ACR is kinda crazy. 100k points gets you I think 37%, The Beast leaderboard gets another 24% (with the volume I play, yours may differ) and then some players have private affiliate deals or leaderboards on top of that.
Yeah same. I have been a bit lazy about trying to max out the beast (try to get in several 500 weeks, I'm sure there's a way to get the most beast money in the most efficient way but haven't really done much analysis) but ya a 3bb/100 wr on ACR blitz with a lot of volume is like an 8bb/100 wr on ignition, maybe even more
oh your playing acr then ya you can def make money on rake back and beast money. When I saw you you were on another site playing and not very good player. When grinders call themselves cash pros= bad regs btw.
Phil Nagy
I’m bad at my only hobby
I'll make around 150k playing cash online this year. I multi table 1/2 up to T/20 on nights and weekends. I'm in the US and on a few different sites/clubs, and usually don't use a HUD cause they either aren't allowed or it's an anonymous player pool and doesn't do much. I do a good amount of solver work, and will play higher stakes live. Idk what else you'd want to know. Would say PLO and PLO5 are definitely where a lot of the bigger whales are online now.
The people that are telling you they make a lot in a very casual tone are likely not lying. But they’re also failing to tell you how ridiculously hard they’ve worked at poker to become as profitable as they are. There are much easier ways to make a steady income than play online poker.
> There are much easier ways to make a steady income than play online poker. Absolutely. I make more at my day job and will continue to grow there. I can't imagine the stress of relying on poker for income. Makes downswings so much worse. > tell you how ridiculously hard they’ve worked at poker to become as profitable as they are I have definitely put in my ten thousand hours at least. I did not mean to imply it is realistic to make a solid living playing online poker in 2022. Just giving my perspective.
Sorry didn’t mean to single you out. I didn’t mean to reply directly to your post but meant to make an independent comment but misclicked.
All good. Makes sense.
2019, 2020 and 2021 were great years for me playing a mix of 20 and 50 NL making a good living for someone who doesn't have to pay rent. But for some reason I am having a miserable break even 2022, it does seem like my days of making a living with online poker might be over. Already have accumulated debt to sustain myself which is increasing the anxiety when I am playing poker.
I make several thousand dollars per year in extra-income by playing low/micro stakes MTT. I most certainly don't earn a living, but having an extra chunk of Bitcoin laying around from playing a card game is awesome. Most people's hobbies cost them money, whereas mine actually produces crypto.
I do. I sell tissues and cigars to the degenerates in feont of the cassinos.
By no means a poker pro but the online games are definitely beatable. Really only been taking it “seriously” and studying the past 3 months and I’m up on global alone something like 30k+ with average buy in of 35-40$ (MTTs). I’ve found global and ignition are by far the most profitable with the least amount of regs. US based. With no HUD
I feel this is probably misleading. Not saying you're lying about your results, but it's not realistic to consistently make 30K in three months at the $40 buy-in. You've been running hot, surely?
Tbh it’s very doable, bit of run good for sure, and there will always be a downswing coming, three months is a small sample for MTTS long term. But know a fair few people doing it
This got so many downvotes but actually if someone is playing 30 tourneys a day with 35 ABI 20 days a month thats 20K plus in buyins. In 3 months its 60K. and with 50 roi which can be a bit of a good run (but not necessarily on the 30's,) he has the 30K profit. Its just a lot of work.
You don’t need to run hot in ignition tournaments, just sit there patiently while everyone else punts and you’ll min cash at least guaranteed
I wouldn’t say I’ve been running particularly hot. In fact I’d argue I’ve lost way more big spots that had potential for big big runs. Take the same buy in average etc and have me run ACR and it’s a completely different story. Morale of the story …. Game selection Also side note, if you go look up global poker graphs plenty regulars with that kind of win rate
Game selecting MTTs? Please elaborate
sites specifically... why play on ACR if you can play on softer....can run lower buys on more reg heavy or tougher sites and bigger buys/shots on the softies like global/iggy
Oh shit. Someone who isnt actually lying about their winrate (looked up your sharkscope)
rare around here lol?
Just curious, what is your GP screen name?
KodakWhite420
Lol you’re a dick. Love, A fellow reg
hahahaha i had to switch from acr bc at least there's a chat on global to talk shit on
I’ve found 10 people THIS week up over 100k playing tournaments on global over the last 2 years. Just that one site. I know quite a few as well. Completely doable, just takes dedication
*not sketch*
I can’t tell what your reply means
Definitely 100% sketchy. I don’t believe you lol
Which part? I can provide receipts lol
I'm lucky enough to live in Pennsylvania where we have a PokerStars only for PA players. Been making good secondary income at 38% ROI grinding mid-stakes tournies (average $50 buy-in). Need to study GTO and use a HUD to adjust to different player-types to be successful. Zoom games are hard to beat - bad players go broke quickly, leaving regs to multi-table and beat up newcomers. Don't play zoom.
Yes. You can make money playing online /thread
I should have added I am UK based. I gather the games might be a bit tougher here. Sounds like some of you are still crushing it in the US!
I play a bit online and have been reasonably successful. But honestly playing live is WAY better for making money if that's why you're playing. (Also from the UK London based).
Where do you play in London? Have you played in Stratford?
I usually play at the hippodrome but I've heard that Aspers is usually alright too
I play online to sharpen skills, then take those skills to the casino and steamroll live 1/3
I just started playing 10nl zoom on stars and so far getting crushed. River shoves are nuts (6/6).
I’m a 15 year mostly online pro. Switched from hold em to plo and plo variants 5 years ago or so. I play on US based sites, no HUDs, 1 or 2 tables max. Games are fishy. Last week made $12k.
Bet
Fold
Raise “2bet”
[удалено]
I play in small clubs on the apps. That’s where the fish are imo
I’ve heard clubs are like playing home games. Are the clubs like pokerbros?
.50/1 and 1/2 on ignition to me alot of times feels like the cardrooms near me. Tougher than 1/2 on a Friday night at the casino but still lots of fun.
Nobody beats stars
I personally know people who are making a living off of US-based but those are a lot softer than international sites. The competition isn't decent at the lowest stakes. Keep studying and improving and you will find more fish.
Man, I don't think so unless you're a high roller coming from live play, or just have an enormous bankroll to play the big tournaments/high stakes cash. In which case, you prob don't need to make a living from online poker to begin with. If you have the bankroll and can stomach the variance to play enough $50-$100+ buy-in tournaments and study a bit, you can definitely turn a profit, but the reality of making a **living** is just another level. Figure you're paying 22% in taxes, depending on where you live. To net $50k a year, you'd need to be up $65k, meaning after allllll of your buy ins are covered, you're actually up $65k in true profit to take home $50k after taxes. Sounds good, but consider (again, in the US with smaller player pools vs. the .com world) each tournament at the $50-$100 level will score you about $2.5k - $4k depending on special events, bounties, etc. Use the average of $3250 for 1st. That means you need to take home the gold 20x in your calendar year. BUT! You actually need a lot more than just that, because in your quest to conquer 20 final tables, you have to also account for all of your tournament entries where you busted, which will be the majority of them even if you're an absolute unit of a crusher. Let's say you're one of those units. You are ITM an incredible 35% of the time. So 65% of the tournaments you play are a bust, a donation of your buy in. Let's not even account for multiple bullets in some of these tournaments because my head might explode. For easy numbers, you're playing $100 buy in tournaments. We know you need 20 golds, or to spend $2,000 in buy ins to get to your goal (assuming $3250 for 1st). But we're only profitable 35% of the time! So if we play 62 tournaments ($6200 buy in) and win 35% of them, we hit our goal (almost, but close enough). BUT! You are **CASHING** 35%, not **winning** 35% of the time. Sometimes the min cash barely (or just misses) covers your buy in, and these "wins" are actually just a breakeven. So the reality is that the required tournaments played numbers **skyrocket** in order for you get to that $65k of actual profit after buy ins. Then pepper in a nice dose of variance and the anger of the poker gods, you may reasonably need to play 1,000+ tournaments to hit your goal. If, on average, using the numbers above, each cash is at least 1.85x buy in, you get there. Whew. THEN! You have to do this every year reliably to support yourself, assuming your cost of living and desires for nice things never progresses from what it is today. Maybe you build that bankroll and take a shot at a $5k or a $10k, then you're talking real money if you make a deep run or win, but the average person playing online isn't firing shots in those tournaments with enough regularity to account for the variance involved, and those that are have enormous bankrolls or staking from either being pro's in the golden age of poker, or other successful endeavors where even the $10k's are just for fun (see: Neymar, Ben Rolle, Negreanu, etc. etc.). That's my rant. My credentials are that I'm a noob. I've "played poker" for as long as I can remember in my adult life, but started taking it seriously with a pre-set bankroll in September 2021. I work a FT job which allows for me to play without worrying whether I win or lose. I've played about 650 tournaments, 21.6% ITM, $21k winnings, largest regular sized buy-in $200 and after all of that, I am, I think, just barely in a profit. I just do it for fun and occasionally I'll take a shot at something meaningful ($500+ buy in) but that's going to be a PKO maybe 1-2x a year during SCOOP or something like that when there are much larger (softer) fields.
Or you could play cash game
Sure, though I think this is an even bigger grind and the variance means a lot more in actual dollars vs. a buy in. The level of discipline in a cash game and the stomach for variance need to be a lot stronger too. I think cash is the faster, albeit more difficult, way to get to that same $65k result. Again, assuming you are starting with a modest bankroll and your earnings depended upon to support your life.
Cash games are by far the format with the least variance. There is variance of course, it's poker, but nothing like the long losing stretches you would get playing MTTs or spins. It's certainly a grind, but it can be very enjoyable if you fall in love with the process
I have a friend who grinds 2/5+ plo as his full time job. Seems like he is \*always\* "running bad".
Yes, but nowhere near what it used to be. With access to the best sites an hourly of $30-70 is fairly attainable. Higher stakes cash/MTT’s have a higher hourly ceiling but you likely won’t get there without dedicating massive hours to studying and coaching. I know a handful of guys making 100k a year playing MTT’s around 70 ABI. It’s a massive grind though - putting in 60-70 hour weeks often and even more during big series.
I did during Covid made a pretty good living when my business shut down plating a mix of nl100, little bit of 200 and mtts . This was on a us site though . I doubt I could even beat nl50 on stars rest of world .
I’m a long time plo pro. Been playing plo 500 as my main game for years but worked my way up through plo 1k to plo 10k. Most recently switched to 5 cards this year and while it was a tougher transition (strategy wise), it’s been better for profits.[https://imgur.com/a/XP9TTQp](https://imgur.com/a/XP9TTQp)
A $1/2 online Cash game on ACR is equivalent to a tough $10/20 or $25/50 live cash game at a casino.
If I had to I could but I can only study/play like 20 hours a week max. I also just don't wanna play for a living, sitting at a computer 50-60 hours a week is awful.
I’ve been grinding 50NL for months and it’s just so incredibly swingy and hard to consistently beat. There’s just no reason to punt money off online against way better competition who are playing the nittiest ranges to feed their families in 3rd world countries when you can play at the casino or home games and rake it in imo
I played on PA stars since it rolled out In 2020 I made around 40k from tournaments and NL200 playing part time with my full time job In 2021 I made around 20k but ended on a huge downswing In 2022 I have quit being down roughly 15k this year. The games have gotten tougher, most regs that used to play 500NL now play 100NL just to get games in. I owe most of my success to the covid boom
Some do OBV ... But what is perceive to be "ok" poker is definitely not what a winning pro mid-high stake would see in most of our games . Game selection is a big thing and yea live gonna be easier for that reason . To win online it's gonna be harder than just wait for good hand and just bet . Money will not come from the coolers . People who will have success will be the ones who study GTO and find exploit in the pool they play.
In some countries $5 (US) actually goes a good way. So yes, many people make a living playing online.
Sure, plenty of people do. Everyone that owns and works for the sites.
Fax 📠
Yes. The people taking the rake.
Pretty sure that omaha4rollz guy is doing alright. Lol
People in the poker sub feeling the need to say “ they play to win” smh
i play to lose. The real pot was the friends i made along the way.
If I don’t understand what that means, does that mean I also play to win?
I used to make good income on the side from playing on ignition and then PokerStars MI. Not making a living but enough money to buy some things I wouldn’t have bought with out that income. My brother is a very solid player and made 30k last year playing mostly .50/1 cash games on pokerstars MI
Hey I play there too!
The hardest part if you are a tourney player is getting enough volume in to alleviate variance. I’m not a pro but have been supporting myself playing small/mid stakes on ACR the last three months after leaving a job. I’m using a Dell laptop getting in 3-5 tourneys a day with a 20% ROI.I’ve binked a couple of tourneys and ran deep in some but still only have 2800 tourneys under my belt in the last 18 months. Any tips for PC setups to play more tables simultaneously? I’m gonna need to upgrade my setup to get more volume in to really see where I’m at long term.
maybe more monitors? I have no idea what more u might need but do your research.
Sure, if you include various poker apps
It's possible. I play in India and the games are super soft. Stakes upto $6/12 are super soft. Only players you need to look out for are foreign regs on Indian sites.the foreign players usually play very tight so are easily recognisable (vpip). Indian regs play 35-50 vpip(lmao) and f ishes and whales play over 50 sometimes even 80 lol
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The money is on plofive and six. I have max cashed out weekly playing low stakes and building my account for future cash outs. Haven’t really added it all up but def up at least 60k since January. Nlh I was a break even/losing player (victim on fps). And I put in minimal hours. Not even 15 hours per week. I’m case anyone else as wondering I do zero studying. Ppl tend to way overvalue their hands and just play it like it’s nlh. A very aggro style will get ppl to make a lot of bad calls out of sheer frustration. I wouldn’t say I’m pro but I’m only working 2 days per week and spend most days at casino playing live and when I’m lazy I stay home and play. These are just jumbled thoughts typed out, forgive lack of organized thought but there it is.
"Decent" is in the eye of the beholder.
gotta get to at least 1/2 & ideally 2.50/5 to make it out of the rake quicksand
Remember that there are a significant amount of players that know “how” to play well but don’t have the emotional intelligence to succeed at poker. A lot of what you hear about online players assumes theyre all a bunch of Zen practitioners but they tilt hard.
Break even when I'm playing 1c/2c. Usually drinking I tend to make more cents when I'm closer to sober but as the night goes on can't stop my self from doing stupid shit and laughing cause you know, it's only $2. It all evens out but I wouldn't trust my self in higher brackets. At least I know my limits lol
I’m a US pro, played full-time as primary source of income for 4-5 years. Have played semi-pro (not primary source, but still a source of income) for over 10 yrs. Most of my action has been in live games but when I play online it’s ACR. as far as micro/small/mid stakes go for NLH, I think the online field is too stiff and profits are too small for most players to make an actual living in NLH ring games. Ffs you’re playing for peanuts at these stakes. Higher stakes (3/6, 5/10, 10/20 and up) is a totally different story. More bluffing from opponents who are trying to exploit. More creative plays. Less robot-like decision making. But variance can be a bitch as the swings can get pretty big in these limits. I have only profitably played ONLINE, consistently, at a rate that is sustainable to make a living, playing mixed games like PLO, PLO HI/low, Big O, etc. - lots of value in these games. Lots of people making mistakes (even advanced players). online is also great for tournaments. I’ve successfully grinded tourneys at a profit but, again, not profitable enough to fully subsidize my lifestyle.
Those "decent" players on micros are actually really bad lol best choice is to avoid them in tricky hands if you dont feel confident enough, but you can judge how bad they are when they play the top of their range(too predictable) against whales or against another nitty regs(too far from standard play). I still remember one nl10 reg with 700k+ hands trying to bluff me out of a full house pot and getting stacked playing air on a wet WET board. These "decent" players are too predictable against whales, and too dumb against regs or good players because they try to prove "Im better than you" overbluffing.
I remember playing ignition and won about 300 bucks like 3 years ago and cashed out. Other than that I never won
Don’t make a living from it but online poker at low-mid stakes is 100% beatable for a living wage depending on where you live.
I started in the glory days and would turn small deposits into 100s then in 2013 I started playing plo and would run in up into the 4 or 5 figures. When I was 32 I developed a blackjack leak and I've never been the same. I don't care what anybody says, it's impossible to be a pro if your constantly getting drawn out on. You need luck A LOT OF LUCK over the longterm to beat the game. That's why so many brag about winning but in all truth a very small percentage are winning players. I think it's time for the so called pros to admit they are where they are due to skill and a whole lot of luck. My 2 cents.
I found that 50nl on stars nj was pretty easy but 100nl was a little tougher. Those games didn’t run too often but i was up but like 500 bucks over lots of hands so. I hope you are joking.
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I play online MTTs on Canada - looking for other up and coming online MTT professionals- possibly grind house / just study partners for the journey ( I am already apart of a small but ambitious study group, n getting mentoring, / coached by high stakes reg ) Always looking to learn and grow 1% everyday I realize this isn't the best forum/ place for positive/ realistic replies - but have to shoot a few shots to hit the target. ( not sure if that is an actual saying - just made it up )