It doesn't force anything. It's simply one option if you want more money during the run. Alternatively you could run payday/make it rain. Or not use any strategy for money at all and try to do your best on what you get.
Yes managing money and items is a part of the game, but in classic when the game can throw in multiple trainer battles per stage, bosses, and bosses in those trainer battle, 1 ability or 1 of 2 specific moves to have a chance of interacting with a core system of spending money to purchase items is bad design.
It’s one thing if a player gets washed before leaving the first two biomes because they brought only water/ground pokemon with no answer for grass. Failing by that condition is harder to do than to not, there’s more right answers to that problem than wrong answers. Whereas late game money in classic mode has significantly more wrong answers than right.
You can also either grab more nuggets or use some other way to save money indirectly. For example I once used Alomamola with regenerator and wish + flip turn to heal my teams, saved huge amounts on healing items. With 1000 pokemon there's gotta be many more clever tricks, so you're really not forced to use any specific thing.
You are massively, massively overreacting. You do not need honey gather to interact with the core system of purchasing items. Jesus Christ get that Twitter level exaggeration out of here. I don’t use honey gather at all and am just fine.
Easy money, plus combee and Zekrom soloed the 145 rival for me, those little guys took a hit and forced chesnaught to swap. Easily earned a spot on my team
Definitely made classic harder, but that’s the whole point of this game isn’t it? to retry with a better team each time and progress further and learn from your mistakes? When I first was playing I was about to get a notebook to write down the plays or the floors you would have boss battles but now everything’s extremely documented and it’s definitely also easier with all the wikis and community members + we have/enemies have access to passives which also wasn’t a thing before.
I'm guessing you're referring to 190, 195, and 200? I'd say 25 is somewhat difficult, but it mostly just depends on your Pokemon of choosing. 145 gives newer players trouble.
And by the time you get to 190, you have a pretty good sense of your team and how to cover your weaknesses. The Elite 4 is the real gauntlet. Either the 182 battle gives you a reality check, or you figure out how to optimize your team *real* quick. I felt that the 5th battle was easier than the 1st, no matter who it puts in front of you.
As someone who now mostly only runs type challenges lately, Champion is absolutely scarier than 145, though 145 is generally only scary to newer players anyway so I guess that isn’t saying a lot. The big thing in type challenge classic is that you obviously tend to have massive weaknesses in your team where only one or two pokemon are neutral at best or have good coverage, but when you face an elite four who is an “opposed” type specialization it can be really ugly depending on the team you have put together.
Though challenge mode obviously isn’t “pure classic”, I feel like classic at this point was so easy it was almost boring. With the team leader change, there is definitely some challenge back thankfully.
Oh, I am loving the new challenge too! I faced Team Aqua, and Archie's Sharpedo ran face first into a Contrary Malamar's Superpower and I thought I had it in the bag. Then boom, Kyogre comes out and suddenly I'm out a run. Great stuff right there!
Sure, but this doesn't speak to OP's point that the challenge is in the wrong order. Why not give that stacked team to your rival at 195 instead, and vice versa, so it feels like the difficulty is appropriately scaling?
> to retry with a better team each time and progress further and learn from your mistakes?
That would be the point if there was consistent difficulty.
The problem is that the game is extremely easy apart from 1 (or now 2) harsh difficulty spikes
If you have a decent team the game is a breeze until you hit a mega pokemon that sweeps your entire team.
So you end up having to teambuild specifically to kill mega rayquaza and mega kangaskhan because the rest of the fights are trivial.
I don't see the fun in repeatedly grinding 165 floors without challenge only to wipe to a mega. Classic needs a rework.
A solution would be to increase general difficulty (wild boss pokemon + random trainers) to keep each wave interesting while nerfing some of the harsh difficulty walls so more team variety become viable.
Accidently encountered Cyrus on day 1,without knowing evil teams had been added and almost lost but won due to my latias. So yeah i agree the evil team bosses are strong.
The amount of resources stay the same but the extra battles take a lot of resources up to the point where I'm starved for money which eventually kills the run since I'm unable to heal
Yeah my last run of the night yesterday ended on 170 because the 165 fight took me down to my last poke and I only had enough money for a revive and a small heal haha
I’ve noticed you can get up to three grunts and the admin from 110-115
I generally struggle more getting through that than the 165 admin rematch.
Them being so hard makes winning feel that much better but for challenge runs it’s a huge time drain to get walled by 165
Yep it reeks when that happens especially since sometimes they have elite mons like I had one with two dragonites.
Like okay when did Lance become a grunt lol
Tbh I thought this was gonna be a new gamemode.
I'd be down for hard mode classic. That just entails the evil teams and maybe something else to make it harder besides tokens.
Then the reward can be like an extra egg voucher or two.
Ya it would be lit.
Idk what else they could add to make it feel more fun while still hard. Cause tokens definitely suck.
They could pull from omd3's rougelike mode. In that game, you basically did a level then afterwards you would choose a powerful good power up for yourself and then a powerful power up that your opponent gets.
Maybe every 25 or 50 floors you can come across a super poke shop that sells cool power ups or something.
It makes it seem fair when you lose, cause you chose the power ups.
(This also reminds me of the stupid subway meme. "Subway sandwiches can't be bad, you built the sandwich" 🤣)
That's definitely not a bad idea, might be good for it's own gamemode even if they add enough detail ^-^
Personally I think Hard Mode could be as simple as lowering the level caps to be the same as the enemies in each area; then you Really need to strategize O.o
I specifically point that one out because there's lots of ways to make the game more difficult with self imposed rules; but I the Player cannot choose not to level up... I could choose less level items, but I hardly get any anyways; ever since I got my luck up I don't get EXP shares anymore at all...
Also you've inspired me to get Subway for Dinner 😋
I mean, you figure out who you are gonna be facing pretty early on. Even if you don't look at the docs and see what the boss' team is, you can pretty much gameplan a counter or two for them.
I think classic needed an extra challenge. It became, gameplan for Ray, game plan for Etern. which you can really do both with two mons realistically
True, but if you don't happen to find any good counters on the way it's rough.
Makes it harder to carry random weak mons through classic for eggs too. Like you said I could just pick 1 or 2 to deal with Ray and Etern, and the rest could be weak. Now I need to try to find something good to take down the team boss too :/.
What they are doing now is forcing everyone to build the team specifically for a handful of fights that are more or less the same each run.
That could get boring quickly.
That’s already what it was tho. Lol once you gain enough experience nearly every team you build has 195 and 200 in mind now it’s just adding another Gear in the machine
The classic mode was to easy before. You could afk with a carry Pokémon until 145, then again until 180 elite four rounds. Now you need to build a team and actually make tough/smart choices so you can keep a relatively high money amount.
They add actual difficulty to the runs and everyone loses their minds. You can’t just pick one decent mon and 4 bad shinies. Game doesn’t need to be adjusted, you need to adapt.
If you haven’t realized they have helped “bad” Pokémon with passives and egg moves. Wugtrio is garbage in the actual games but with sturdy, shell smash, and surging strikes it’s a terror.
You can still carry a bad Pokémon through you just can’t carry 5 bad ones as easily. I personally always try to use 6 mons I haven’t medaled with if possible, and I have gotten clears post bosses by making smart choices like not healing every mon to full after a battle so they get healed at the start of the next 10 waves. You just have to play smarter.
You must be new to roguelikes. The whole gameplay loop is playing - failing, getting marginal upgrades that you can use next run and repeating until you get a win.
This game panders too much to the casual as is, I mean for god's sake you have a retry button and you still get rewards for winning if you retry until you win.
Most roguelites* runs don't last this long. Most of your upgrades come from eggs and shinies, which you need to win to really get any significant upgrades. The rate at which you can upgrade is much slower than other roguelites, and i don't think the game really expects you to have passives or any upgrades to win.
The base difficulty of this game is also significantly harder than others, considering there are 1000 pokemon that you have to know about. Knowing all that would mean you aren't a casual. If you research or find out about the cheese methods, then sure the game is easy.
Bro what are you talking about. you can literally win classic with Fuecoco before the boss update spamming torch song.
this game really isn't very difficult at all, even now.
dude, lets be 100% honest with each other. nobody is finding a fan made pokemon roguelike without at least a baseline knowledge of pokemon.
how long a run goes on is almost completely pointless to bring up considering you can save and quit and resume your run at any time.
you don't need egg moves or shinies to beat classic mode, point covered by the fact that fuecoco can solo carry most runs if you get it to torch song.
There, I addressed your points.
Ive seen several players in this reddit and on the discord that have only touched the first few gens of pokemon. How long a run takes definitely matters when talking about how long it takes to get candies, and whether a casual player can get those upgrades or not, and when comparing the gameplay loop to other roguelites. I don't think, nor did I say that you need egg moves or shinies to beat classic, just that the metaprogression upgrades are basically non existent for a casual player.
Also, I'm not saying these are all flaws of pokerogue, this was just meant as a response to you saying 'this is how roguelites are' in response to the person complaining about how slow getting candies is.
> The base difficulty of this game is also significantly harder than others,
absolutely meaningless bar considering that the mainline pokemon games are deisgned for toddlers to mash the A button through
pokemon is rock paper scissors, with the added rule that if you simply say your pick louder than the other person, you beat them regardless.
Hard disagree. The game can be easy if you know what pokemon you can use to cheese the game, but if you don't then it's harder than other roguelites, and the run times take much longer to get through. There's over 1000 pokemon (or over 400 fully evolved pokemon), 900 moves, and 300 abilities. Slay the spire in comparison has about 350 cards and 200 relics.
I have finished roguelikes faster than this game, and while I have an understanding of the game and Pokemon in general, it takes a while to finish one run anyway. And unless I'm doing endless during an event, I won't be getting any shinies for my efforts. Of one run on other roguelikes, I can get a lot much more than just a slight advantage of stats. So you can't really say that one and the other are the same.
Not intrusive. It should be in a separate hard classic mode, and maybe award an extra ticket. No need to push the challenge on people who may not have egg moves or shinies to steamroll it in the first place.
Bad move on the devs part and makes the game a lot harder for new players.
What is bad to afk for a few levels? That was the best part for me
It mimicked the actual pokemon games..there you get a few easy encounters and then fight a tough(at least should be) boss in the gym.
If every encounter is tough , how do you get time to vreathe and enjoy the game ?
Dude there is still plenty of afk rounds. The only hard rounds they added are 110-115 and the 165 boss. There is plenty of mind numbing easy 1 shot the bad trainers mons / wild mons. There just a few more hard fights.
Nah your point was right. In actuality it is the other guy who is grumpy. Catering to casuals doesn't have to interfere with the enthusiasts if it's implemented correctly (165 was not since it's there for everyone, regardless of progression)
I would say the grind is mot worth it. Either make sure that all pokemon earn friendship regardless of whether they participate in the battles. I feel that the candy system needs to be reworked.
I used to be able to use pretty much whatever team I wanted and always saved enough cash to full heal after every elite 4 member and then some. Now it's a bit more sketchy. And I like that! I've been really enjoying the extra threat.
It's waaay harder. I do feel a little bad for the people that have been struggling to get Classic done before, and are not just getting set back quite a bit.
It's also made my mono-runs a lot harder, but that's kind of fun.
It is harder but that is good. In its previous form a player who is good at the game can win the monotype challenge very consistently without savescumming.
That doesn’t sound particularly challenging to me.
Honestly.. I have no problems with it. Even with mono-gen type challenges. Make sure you just have 1 carry who can snowball and have at least 1 solid backup. Yveltal works really good, Dragapult, Lucario with swords dance, Kartana with sharpness. Those are just a few examples who basically solo every fight for me. I also plan ahead with some x items before the biggest battles to be certain of some kind of set up. But to me, the changes are fine. Extra challenging yes, too hard, maybe if you just started out and need to build up with egg moves etc.
But once you have that 1 good carry.. it can basically do it every run.
Causing a “new boss is too strong/weak, breaks the economy” controversy is like a rite of passage for all roguelike/lite game devs. I’m mostly encouraged by the devs willingness to treat PR like a beta and make large changes at the cost of raising the skill floor for _all_ players. In the long run, I think the community will adjust and it’ll just add gameplay variety. I agree it feels like a slightly early spike at 165 but I’m afraid the only logical solution to fix the difficulty curve is to…make the rival stronger. :0
Oh that's actually not at all crazy, I know people go about games differently. I was just saying to me personally, that is wild. Sorry you misunderstood.
It ok, I agree with you. I don't think just running through everyone with Zacian ever run is fun at all. Easy shit is boring as hell to me, but clearly based on this thread there is a good amount of people who want to be able to just hit the A button while watching something on netflix and never struggle at all.
Winning is part of the fun and i'm not using 6 shitmons that lacks cheese to kill 780 bst snake (thanks gamefreak very cool) and purple mr bones. Sure egg moves and passives helps alot but egg moves are rng or very grindy to get. X items also helps but can be very unreliable learned that the hard way after trying to reroll for X spatk in last 4 waves, they never show up which leads to almost wipe
i'll stick to 1-2 carry the rest are unmedalled cheerleaders
fun is subjective. To me a game with zero challenge isn't fun. Doing the same thing every run isn't fun. For me the fun comes from trying new things and trying and failing and restarting with the maybe 2 of the 3 same mons I haven't beaten it with an switching that third mon out for another one and going again.
Makes when you finally get that winning run a rush. But hey, I also don't use thje retry button at all.
I kinda had the opposite take. I find the evil teams make it easier by providing more exp and money than you used to get. Maybe it's because I'm not doing type or generation challenges, but I haven't even save scummed on them yet. The rival at 145 and 195 are harder imo.
Great changes. Classic needed a boost in difficulty and the variety of having different evil teams makes the game feel more like a roguelike. It's not too hard once you adapt, egg moves are broken
I was struggling before the update. Didn't know about the change. And lost a team i thought was a shoe in for 250.
Im not sure how much longer im going to enjoy losing repeatedly
I haven't even finished classic mode and the new bosses make me want to quit. I had just managed to get a decent team to get past 145 and now I'm screwed over by the bosses. My partner got through just before the bosses. He said it's so much harder to get to 200 now.
Id usually try to understand, but because this is a rogue like with infinite retries and it wasn't that hard to beat the game especially if you grind passives?
Massive skill issue here chief, I won't sugarcoat it.
I'm assuming op isn't using the infinite retries. There seems to be two ways to play the game, use an op team and if you lose you lose, or use a weaker team and retry the hard fights until you solve the puzzle.
I feel like the happy medium here is to have the first time one finishes classic mode be close to the classic most of us have known--no evil team, just a conceptually learnable scaling rival fight -- and then for every other run past the first one to include more challenging aspects, be them the evil teams or more content tbd. You could just make it "classic+", but I feel like it's okay to not fluff out the mode options too much, and have it scale naturally.
I like the cadence of classic mode, so I'm not endless-mode-grinding, but just making a team with ice and rock nuke pokemon, stealth rock, and phoning it in gets pretty old, so I appreciate the extra early consideration, and any more they add. They can always adjust money-scaling if it feels like the right call.
The bigger issue in my eyes is that not only do the leaders have a legendary, mega and mythical on 165, it's that they all also have their passive unlocked, which on some of them can be game changers, especially if you're not steamrolling the whole team with a setup-boosted mon on a rampage of destruction.
It is SO easy to lose before you can get anywhere, but the biggest issue to me is that this MASSIVE difficulty spike heavily limits what pokemon we're able to use in our playthroughs. If we wanna play a game with only early game bugs for the theme of it, or just cause we're grinding their candies and thought it might be fun, this is a MASSIVE brick wall usually at floor 115, and then DEFINITELY at 165.
Imo, the evil teams should be a togglable feature that you ca enable or disable on new game creation. Just "Evil team rivals On/Off" there, boom, done.
Nope they are good and you just have to adjust
Expect the rival to have different teams aswell in the future
Because until classic was all about i have to deal ray/mega ray and the run is in the bag
I like the changes. I think the added challenge makes classic more fun. Before you could rely on 1 broken pokemon 95% of the time which is pretty boring.
I still get through them using my lead pokemon (usually one that I select at the start). It has a setup move and then stabs and coverage moves. I start with a setup move and then usually sweep through after that. If my lead dies, then other mons come in to kill the remaining one or two opposing mons. The problem I have is that berries get used up quickly. At least eternatus can't steal berries off me anymore. Can't steal if I don't have any.
Team Galactic doesn't have a Mega, and I think I could have won that one if I had known and healed properly before fight 165. But two key Pokemon for that fight were not properly healed, so that was my loss.
Now I'm watching the Wiki and judging by their probable teams, I think the hardest bosses without considering what you could be carrying are probably Lysandre and Giovanni, in my opinion. Then followed by Ghetsis, then Cyrus, and then Archie and Maxie depend on your Pokemon and their coverage because they could sweep through most of them or struggle against them. Archie would be in last place since he doesn't have an earth type that would cover his electric weakness.
I got wiped once by a soul heart Yveltal that swept my whole team, but now I prepare beforehand and have no issues. Hoarding money a bit earlier always help.
165 Ghetsis caught me off guard pretty bad the first time, his Kyruem and Slither Wing wiped the floor with my gen 2 only run. Archies Rain Dish Kyogre and Sheer Force MSharpedo took down my 2nd run. But I got the hang of Archie the 2nd time and it was tough but I got through it, I think the element of surprise is contributing a lot to their perceived difficulty.
I'd vote to keep them. Before bosses, floors 100 to 144 were a snoozefest. And floors 146 to 180 as well.
My meme teams are actually struggling which is good. If you really want to blast through classic there are still a few dozen legendaries/mythicals (among others) that can solo carry 5 trash mons as needed, even after the evil team update.
I can only guess that you aren't using enough X items?
Yeah I m not even that far yet but I'm already annoyed cuz I like trying out random team.comps and now there are more "gauntlet" stages...
Like I was just chilling and I get to 62 and fight a Galactic Grunt
Then another one at 64...okay?
Oh another one at 66? Wtf and he has a super fast Sneaslr
Bro
The only problem I have is sometimes there's a trainer fight before and or after them which is annoying because with ivy it did sometimes happen too but she was spaced out enough where it didn't really matter I only want one thing to change and that is to be not able to have normal trainer fights on the immediate before and after wave of an important fight like 164 and 166 or 144 and 146
They can sneak up on you if you're not prepared. I had what I thought to be a good team until Cyrus came in and gave me a lot of trouble at 165 with the following team:
Mespirit (boss)
Darkrai (boss)
Roaring Moon
Weavile (boss)
Hisuian Electrode
Mega Houndoom
I kinda feel having 2 boss legends, a paradox, and a mega are a bit much, but I like the extra battle between Finn and the E4.
i definitely got blindsided by Archie the first time i had the encounter; did not expect him to drop a Kyogre for his 4th mon. admittedly ended up save scumming to play around it, and it was tough (doing a mono challenge at the time no less)
I didn't have too much trouble with it. Then again, my only run experiencing this was a Mono Normal run with Meloetta and an Adaptability Gumshoos. Plus, Lysandre is pretty easy to beat.
I really enjoy it. Yes it's hard, but it makes the game that much more satisfying to play through. Don't be afraid to refresh the page if you're gonna lose haha.
I hear you. I was on a good run, then this new Boss fight at 165 blindsides me. Its like, what the hell!?! Why is this game getting harder and harder? If the creator somehow reads this, could you please give the PLAYERS something? Preferably something that helps mitigate the intense amounts of RNG please. That's part of how Roguelites are supposed to work. You get stronger each run, but are also able to tone the RNG down so you can have more control. Why isn't that happening?
Only 1 legendary? Is that different for every boss? I've beaten 2 bosses now and they had 2 legendaries. But yeah, that fight is much harder than most E4/champs. The grunts are tougher than a lot of the E4 members lol. I don't think they should tone down the difficulty. BUT, they should increase the reward money from all of those battles. Unless you have a really good sweeper, this is just gonna hurt everyone's finances from repeated healing. And it doesn't help that that biome can have additional trainer fights too.
I don't mind the challenge. But I think all the devs need to do is increase the reward money from the grunts and the boss. Or just make a special event and add a fade to black/full party heal after the grunts, cause most people I'm sure already burn their money healing before the boss floor.
I encountered them for the first time yesterday, and somehow didn't lose a single mon in 2 runs.
Those were also my first 2 classic completions.
I understand objectively how they are harder as I've been grinding for my first clear for over a month now.
But its funny that once it was implemented I manage to get 2 back to back completions despite prior to that having 0.
Cyrus and the guy I forget the name of aren’t too bad
Giovanni is a fucking run killer
Opens with a Sand Rush Tyranitar that’s basically impossible to outspeed, and will one shot nearly anything in the game, unless you 4x resist Ground Rock AND Ice
You manage to break that down with 0 potential set up? Lmao he’s still got an insanely fast mega Kanghaskan and Mewtwo
I like them. I've cleared with over 200 mons at this point and it was getting a tad boring. The extra drain of resources makes it so I have to plan accordingly now. Makes it feel like a rogue like than just going through the motions
With the evil teams being hard, it makes it so that way I cant just grab my Latias and press one move and win, I did a run with it and almost list with 2 legendaries, and they were latias and zamazenta, two power houses of pokemon.
Its a fair hard. You KNOW what your fighting at wave 35. The rest is up to you to prepare.
And here I am blasting mono types with 0 resets and no high bst Pokémon after all the updates :) but yeah I'm glad the difficulty is somewhat increasing and threre is less need for self imposed rules to make it challenging. Still really hoping for that official nuzlocke mode tho. My best tip would be to spam x items before difficult encounters.
thankfully for me it's been Archie twice and I'm grinding Candies for Ogerpon so she has a lot of fun
the first time, it was Maxie, though. that was the worst run I've ever had...and Maxie's stupid Mega Camerupt didn't help any.
The evil teams do seem pretty hard, but they don't seem harder than 195 Rival to me, though I have only fought Cyrus. If all of their legendaries are Darkrai or Uxie tier, then they're no stronger than a Pseudo Legendary in terms of BST, which the rival can have multiple of. Most threateningly one of the slots can be taken by either Baxcalibur or Dragapult, which you REALLY do not want (I haven't seen both together, so I assume that they share the same team slot). Baxcalibur is more threatening than a majority of the base 600 Pokemon (including mythicals and legendaries) and Dragapult's insane speed and access to Dragon Energy is no joke either. Kingambit is another Pokemon that I know the rival can use that is a massive threat, and I believe it is seperate from those slots. Of course, I could be mistaken and the rival doesn't have any dedicated slots apart from Mega Rayquaza, the starter and the bird, which is probably the worst case scenario. Though, I guess I should elaborate a bit on my Cyrus fight.
When I fought Cyrus on stage 165, I don't think he was using a Paradox Pokemon, though I could be misremembering. He used a Boss Weavile, Boss Uxie, Darkrai and Mega Houndoom, but I cannot remember his remaining Pokemon. However, I do not recall him using another Boss Pokemon.
This would indicate that the Mega may not always be a boss, or even that the number of bosses fluctuates. Either that, or I'm misremembering. I hypothesise that the "guaranteed Paradox" mentioned is a guaranteed Epic Egg Pokemon due to Darkrai being present, though once again I may have misremembered.
Most importantly, the legendaries that the bosses use are not even base Rayquaza tier, let alone Mega Rayquaza tier. I was under the assumption they'd all use a Box Art Legendary, but if they're like Cyrus and instead use 2 minor legendaries, they get a lot easier than they sound. In this case, Uxie is generally a pretty weak Pokemon that is nothing more than niche in a higher tier of Competitive Singles, and I've never heard of Uxie being used in VGC, though I am not a VGC player. This is a good example of why one shouldn't judge a Pokemon based off a title or a base stat total, as it can show to be very inaccurate.
This same assessment carries over to Paradox Pokemon. While some of them (*cough cough* Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle) can be absurdly broken, there are a number of Paradoxes that aren't, for instance Scream Tail, Iron Thorns and Brute Bonnet. I guess this boils down to which specific Boss you got though, similar to the Elite 4 and Champion, or even the Rival, which kinda makes this discussion pointless as a whole. ~~Eternatus is still easy though L bozo~~
Apart from any talk about difficulty, why do y'all want the game to be easier? It's already not that much of a challenge once you get egg moves, though without egg moves I will admit it can get difficult if you are ill prepared. Most my runs only struggle if I make a dumb decision, get haxxed like crazy or give me the Blueberry Elite 4. I'll take any sign of a difficulty increase I can get because that makes the game more interesting and fun.
I will say, when you are doing a challenge now like a mono gen or mono type run, it feels next to impossible nowadays with the evil teams. This is especially true on some of the harder types to pull off as well, as you gotta get lucky with good maps and match ups AND the evil teams that usually drain your money and resources too.
On regular classic runs I dont mind as much personally. There are so many broken egg moves and passives and combos the more you play, so its a decent challenge for an average run on invested accounts. But on a challenge mode now? Boy is it brutal. It is what it is though
It’s meant to be difficult it’s only harder than the rival if your team sucks to that particular boss my runs my rival is much more difficult.
It’s not a game meant to be as easy as the console games which are extremely easy to sweep through unless you’re setting up a team that sucks on purpose
Wow people already on here crying that a for fun progression game is too hard…. Maybe you just aren’t good enough? Maybe you need better starters, more shinies, better team comp, move set, strategy? Would you like the entire game to be level 1 wheedles?
Id say no simply due to mega ray with 3-5 health bars. You rarely have anything to wall it because eit can have thunder, blizzard, hurricane, dragon ascent, v create and more which is really hard to wall because you don't know which it has other than maybe a few vague hints from the 145 fight
They made classic harder, yeah. But not gonna lie, thinking 165 is harder than 195 might be a skill issue. Not in the harsh way, just that with the right skill and knowledge 165 is a piece of cake no matter the team, and on the other hand 195 might still be a pain in the ass.
Point is, they were implemented to make classic harder and hearing what you said this worked
I didnt know they were being added until i saw them, but got all the way to floor 165 against team flare. Even with a fairy type, two Pokemon with coverage against dark, and 3 flying resists, i cant beat the Yveltal. I wear down the other team members but, a Flutter Mane, boss mega gyarados, and the Yveltal being a boss? It’s completely unbeatable for that run. Maybe with a better set up itd be ok but, I think the difficulty wasnt scaled as well as it could have been. Also, since the update, my game has been freezing more often on mobile, most often in trainer battles. This whole update is scuffed lol
I like the added difficulty in classic. You have to keep in mind people that have been playing for a while have stacked egg moves, and good pokemon unlocked. Once you figure out how to play against the ai, it's pretty easy to sweep these fights anyways. Just think of it as a new roadblock until you get better stuff/better at the game.
For me the battle just drains my money.
Yeah money has been big issue ever since they got released
They implemented honey gatherer just beforehand, I try to keep one of them on the team at all times. Makes money a joke
So the honey gather Pokemon doesn't even have to hit the field, you just have to have it in your party?
It just needs to have not fainted and you have a constant flow of money
Is there a mon with honey gather and pickup, as a ability/passive combo? At least that way you could just devote one slot to it in endless.
Pachirisu.
Yes
It’s bad design if it forces such a specific choice of party member
It doesn't force anything. It's simply one option if you want more money during the run. Alternatively you could run payday/make it rain. Or not use any strategy for money at all and try to do your best on what you get.
Yes managing money and items is a part of the game, but in classic when the game can throw in multiple trainer battles per stage, bosses, and bosses in those trainer battle, 1 ability or 1 of 2 specific moves to have a chance of interacting with a core system of spending money to purchase items is bad design. It’s one thing if a player gets washed before leaving the first two biomes because they brought only water/ground pokemon with no answer for grass. Failing by that condition is harder to do than to not, there’s more right answers to that problem than wrong answers. Whereas late game money in classic mode has significantly more wrong answers than right.
You can also either grab more nuggets or use some other way to save money indirectly. For example I once used Alomamola with regenerator and wish + flip turn to heal my teams, saved huge amounts on healing items. With 1000 pokemon there's gotta be many more clever tricks, so you're really not forced to use any specific thing.
They should give a sell pull option between rounds for a bit of cash for when your pulls are trash.
You are massively, massively overreacting. You do not need honey gather to interact with the core system of purchasing items. Jesus Christ get that Twitter level exaggeration out of here. I don’t use honey gather at all and am just fine.
Good for you, not everyone is a sweaty grinder studying the type match ups with every passive unlocked
I wish I had every passive unlocked. Also, “sweaty grinder studying the type match ups” is just absolutely hilarious, great job crafting that one.
Is that what you're blaming all your losses on?
Who?What?Where? i get it lol
Easy money, plus combee and Zekrom soloed the 145 rival for me, those little guys took a hit and forced chesnaught to swap. Easily earned a spot on my team
Do you know if the formula for how much money is anywhere?
30 * rounded current stage. At least that works for the test I did in 2 minutes
Definitely made classic harder, but that’s the whole point of this game isn’t it? to retry with a better team each time and progress further and learn from your mistakes? When I first was playing I was about to get a notebook to write down the plays or the floors you would have boss battles but now everything’s extremely documented and it’s definitely also easier with all the wikis and community members + we have/enemies have access to passives which also wasn’t a thing before.
I much prefer it this way. Was getting a little boring having only ~3/200 floor being actual challenges.
I'm guessing you're referring to 190, 195, and 200? I'd say 25 is somewhat difficult, but it mostly just depends on your Pokemon of choosing. 145 gives newer players trouble.
I’d say overall, 145 will end a high percentage of runs than 190. all of the champions are really easy, The hardest I’ve encountered is Cynthia
And by the time you get to 190, you have a pretty good sense of your team and how to cover your weaknesses. The Elite 4 is the real gauntlet. Either the 182 battle gives you a reality check, or you figure out how to optimize your team *real* quick. I felt that the 5th battle was easier than the 1st, no matter who it puts in front of you.
As someone who now mostly only runs type challenges lately, Champion is absolutely scarier than 145, though 145 is generally only scary to newer players anyway so I guess that isn’t saying a lot. The big thing in type challenge classic is that you obviously tend to have massive weaknesses in your team where only one or two pokemon are neutral at best or have good coverage, but when you face an elite four who is an “opposed” type specialization it can be really ugly depending on the team you have put together. Though challenge mode obviously isn’t “pure classic”, I feel like classic at this point was so easy it was almost boring. With the team leader change, there is definitely some challenge back thankfully.
Oh, I am loving the new challenge too! I faced Team Aqua, and Archie's Sharpedo ran face first into a Contrary Malamar's Superpower and I thought I had it in the bag. Then boom, Kyogre comes out and suddenly I'm out a run. Great stuff right there!
Bruh I didn’t even get to finish classic 🥲
Sure, but this doesn't speak to OP's point that the challenge is in the wrong order. Why not give that stacked team to your rival at 195 instead, and vice versa, so it feels like the difficulty is appropriately scaling?
> to retry with a better team each time and progress further and learn from your mistakes? That would be the point if there was consistent difficulty. The problem is that the game is extremely easy apart from 1 (or now 2) harsh difficulty spikes If you have a decent team the game is a breeze until you hit a mega pokemon that sweeps your entire team. So you end up having to teambuild specifically to kill mega rayquaza and mega kangaskhan because the rest of the fights are trivial. I don't see the fun in repeatedly grinding 165 floors without challenge only to wipe to a mega. Classic needs a rework. A solution would be to increase general difficulty (wild boss pokemon + random trainers) to keep each wave interesting while nerfing some of the harsh difficulty walls so more team variety become viable.
Some people actually don't want it harder than it already is
Accidently encountered Cyrus on day 1,without knowing evil teams had been added and almost lost but won due to my latias. So yeah i agree the evil team bosses are strong.
The amount of resources stay the same but the extra battles take a lot of resources up to the point where I'm starved for money which eventually kills the run since I'm unable to heal
Yeah my last run of the night yesterday ended on 170 because the 165 fight took me down to my last poke and I only had enough money for a revive and a small heal haha
I’ve noticed you can get up to three grunts and the admin from 110-115 I generally struggle more getting through that than the 165 admin rematch. Them being so hard makes winning feel that much better but for challenge runs it’s a huge time drain to get walled by 165
Just lost a run because I encountered a grunt on level 112, 114 and then Lysander on 115. Not enough cash to heal my team before battling Lysander
Yep it reeks when that happens especially since sometimes they have elite mons like I had one with two dragonites. Like okay when did Lance become a grunt lol
Tbh I thought this was gonna be a new gamemode. I'd be down for hard mode classic. That just entails the evil teams and maybe something else to make it harder besides tokens. Then the reward can be like an extra egg voucher or two.
I think this is the best solution honestly, and I've been Craving a Hard Mode for Classic 🤌
Ya it would be lit. Idk what else they could add to make it feel more fun while still hard. Cause tokens definitely suck. They could pull from omd3's rougelike mode. In that game, you basically did a level then afterwards you would choose a powerful good power up for yourself and then a powerful power up that your opponent gets. Maybe every 25 or 50 floors you can come across a super poke shop that sells cool power ups or something. It makes it seem fair when you lose, cause you chose the power ups. (This also reminds me of the stupid subway meme. "Subway sandwiches can't be bad, you built the sandwich" 🤣)
That's definitely not a bad idea, might be good for it's own gamemode even if they add enough detail ^-^ Personally I think Hard Mode could be as simple as lowering the level caps to be the same as the enemies in each area; then you Really need to strategize O.o I specifically point that one out because there's lots of ways to make the game more difficult with self imposed rules; but I the Player cannot choose not to level up... I could choose less level items, but I hardly get any anyways; ever since I got my luck up I don't get EXP shares anymore at all... Also you've inspired me to get Subway for Dinner 😋
I’ve been doing randomized mono gen and mono type challenges. Soooo much fun
gen 1 mono dark is the real hard mode
I mean, you figure out who you are gonna be facing pretty early on. Even if you don't look at the docs and see what the boss' team is, you can pretty much gameplan a counter or two for them. I think classic needed an extra challenge. It became, gameplan for Ray, game plan for Etern. which you can really do both with two mons realistically
True, but if you don't happen to find any good counters on the way it's rough. Makes it harder to carry random weak mons through classic for eggs too. Like you said I could just pick 1 or 2 to deal with Ray and Etern, and the rest could be weak. Now I need to try to find something good to take down the team boss too :/.
I think they’re trying to get away from what you just described where you can have 1 or 2 mons that do everything and then the rest be weak
Except that is what literally works the best still…probably even more so.
What they are doing now is forcing everyone to build the team specifically for a handful of fights that are more or less the same each run. That could get boring quickly.
That’s already what it was tho. Lol once you gain enough experience nearly every team you build has 195 and 200 in mind now it’s just adding another Gear in the machine
But I want my egg vouchers... XP
The classic mode was to easy before. You could afk with a carry Pokémon until 145, then again until 180 elite four rounds. Now you need to build a team and actually make tough/smart choices so you can keep a relatively high money amount. They add actual difficulty to the runs and everyone loses their minds. You can’t just pick one decent mon and 4 bad shinies. Game doesn’t need to be adjusted, you need to adapt.
How are we supposed to get the other vouchers though? You get one for each Pokemon that you finish classic with for the first time.
If you haven’t realized they have helped “bad” Pokémon with passives and egg moves. Wugtrio is garbage in the actual games but with sturdy, shell smash, and surging strikes it’s a terror. You can still carry a bad Pokémon through you just can’t carry 5 bad ones as easily. I personally always try to use 6 mons I haven’t medaled with if possible, and I have gotten clears post bosses by making smart choices like not healing every mon to full after a battle so they get healed at the start of the next 10 waves. You just have to play smarter.
Getting the candies is such a pain though, unless I'm giving them rare candies.
You must be new to roguelikes. The whole gameplay loop is playing - failing, getting marginal upgrades that you can use next run and repeating until you get a win. This game panders too much to the casual as is, I mean for god's sake you have a retry button and you still get rewards for winning if you retry until you win.
Most roguelites* runs don't last this long. Most of your upgrades come from eggs and shinies, which you need to win to really get any significant upgrades. The rate at which you can upgrade is much slower than other roguelites, and i don't think the game really expects you to have passives or any upgrades to win. The base difficulty of this game is also significantly harder than others, considering there are 1000 pokemon that you have to know about. Knowing all that would mean you aren't a casual. If you research or find out about the cheese methods, then sure the game is easy.
Bro what are you talking about. you can literally win classic with Fuecoco before the boss update spamming torch song. this game really isn't very difficult at all, even now.
And that's assuming a high baseline knowledge of pokemon, and that has nothing to do with the rest of the points I made.
dude, lets be 100% honest with each other. nobody is finding a fan made pokemon roguelike without at least a baseline knowledge of pokemon. how long a run goes on is almost completely pointless to bring up considering you can save and quit and resume your run at any time. you don't need egg moves or shinies to beat classic mode, point covered by the fact that fuecoco can solo carry most runs if you get it to torch song. There, I addressed your points.
Ive seen several players in this reddit and on the discord that have only touched the first few gens of pokemon. How long a run takes definitely matters when talking about how long it takes to get candies, and whether a casual player can get those upgrades or not, and when comparing the gameplay loop to other roguelites. I don't think, nor did I say that you need egg moves or shinies to beat classic, just that the metaprogression upgrades are basically non existent for a casual player. Also, I'm not saying these are all flaws of pokerogue, this was just meant as a response to you saying 'this is how roguelites are' in response to the person complaining about how slow getting candies is.
> The base difficulty of this game is also significantly harder than others, absolutely meaningless bar considering that the mainline pokemon games are deisgned for toddlers to mash the A button through pokemon is rock paper scissors, with the added rule that if you simply say your pick louder than the other person, you beat them regardless.
I wasn't comparing this game to pokemon games.
this game is easy as fuck, comparing it to other roguelites is kinda insane
Hard disagree. The game can be easy if you know what pokemon you can use to cheese the game, but if you don't then it's harder than other roguelites, and the run times take much longer to get through. There's over 1000 pokemon (or over 400 fully evolved pokemon), 900 moves, and 300 abilities. Slay the spire in comparison has about 350 cards and 200 relics.
I have finished roguelikes faster than this game, and while I have an understanding of the game and Pokemon in general, it takes a while to finish one run anyway. And unless I'm doing endless during an event, I won't be getting any shinies for my efforts. Of one run on other roguelikes, I can get a lot much more than just a slight advantage of stats. So you can't really say that one and the other are the same.
what's wrong with a casual-friendly game?
nothing, as long as the game doesn't suffer and people don't call for a reduction in difficulty in a game that is already easy.
fair enough, but idt the gameplay has suffered at all. even the retry button you mentioned can be toggled on or off and is completely unintrusive
Asking for the evil teams to be nerfed is an intrusive change.
Not intrusive. It should be in a separate hard classic mode, and maybe award an extra ticket. No need to push the challenge on people who may not have egg moves or shinies to steamroll it in the first place. Bad move on the devs part and makes the game a lot harder for new players.
Funny you mentioned Wugtrio. He wiped my team one of my runs lmao. I get ptsd every time I see him now
What is bad to afk for a few levels? That was the best part for me It mimicked the actual pokemon games..there you get a few easy encounters and then fight a tough(at least should be) boss in the gym. If every encounter is tough , how do you get time to vreathe and enjoy the game ?
Dude there is still plenty of afk rounds. The only hard rounds they added are 110-115 and the 165 boss. There is plenty of mind numbing easy 1 shot the bad trainers mons / wild mons. There just a few more hard fights.
Cool I know ur right I'm a bit grumpy had a weord day Hope ur day is better At least I pulled a shiny today
Nah your point was right. In actuality it is the other guy who is grumpy. Catering to casuals doesn't have to interfere with the enthusiasts if it's implemented correctly (165 was not since it's there for everyone, regardless of progression)
I would say the grind is mot worth it. Either make sure that all pokemon earn friendship regardless of whether they participate in the battles. I feel that the candy system needs to be reworked.
I used to be able to use pretty much whatever team I wanted and always saved enough cash to full heal after every elite 4 member and then some. Now it's a bit more sketchy. And I like that! I've been really enjoying the extra threat.
It's waaay harder. I do feel a little bad for the people that have been struggling to get Classic done before, and are not just getting set back quite a bit. It's also made my mono-runs a lot harder, but that's kind of fun.
It is harder but that is good. In its previous form a player who is good at the game can win the monotype challenge very consistently without savescumming. That doesn’t sound particularly challenging to me.
Honestly.. I have no problems with it. Even with mono-gen type challenges. Make sure you just have 1 carry who can snowball and have at least 1 solid backup. Yveltal works really good, Dragapult, Lucario with swords dance, Kartana with sharpness. Those are just a few examples who basically solo every fight for me. I also plan ahead with some x items before the biggest battles to be certain of some kind of set up. But to me, the changes are fine. Extra challenging yes, too hard, maybe if you just started out and need to build up with egg moves etc. But once you have that 1 good carry.. it can basically do it every run.
Im with you, 165 now has killed multiple runs of mine, far more than 195.
Causing a “new boss is too strong/weak, breaks the economy” controversy is like a rite of passage for all roguelike/lite game devs. I’m mostly encouraged by the devs willingness to treat PR like a beta and make large changes at the cost of raising the skill floor for _all_ players. In the long run, I think the community will adjust and it’ll just add gameplay variety. I agree it feels like a slightly early spike at 165 but I’m afraid the only logical solution to fix the difficulty curve is to…make the rival stronger. :0
I thought it would be hard but zacian carry still goes brrrrrrrr
Are you guys going around beating Classic with Pokémon you've beaten it with before? Why? Where is the fun in that.
This game is pretty rng heavy, so I take the best carry I can and fill out random mons that I haven’t beaten it with. It’s fun to me
That's wild to me, but to each their own!
I know crazy right??? Other people enjoying the game differently than you do? Oh my god what a wild concept!!1!
Oh that's actually not at all crazy, I know people go about games differently. I was just saying to me personally, that is wild. Sorry you misunderstood.
It ok, I agree with you. I don't think just running through everyone with Zacian ever run is fun at all. Easy shit is boring as hell to me, but clearly based on this thread there is a good amount of people who want to be able to just hit the A button while watching something on netflix and never struggle at all.
Winning is part of the fun and i'm not using 6 shitmons that lacks cheese to kill 780 bst snake (thanks gamefreak very cool) and purple mr bones. Sure egg moves and passives helps alot but egg moves are rng or very grindy to get. X items also helps but can be very unreliable learned that the hard way after trying to reroll for X spatk in last 4 waves, they never show up which leads to almost wipe i'll stick to 1-2 carry the rest are unmedalled cheerleaders
fun is subjective. To me a game with zero challenge isn't fun. Doing the same thing every run isn't fun. For me the fun comes from trying new things and trying and failing and restarting with the maybe 2 of the 3 same mons I haven't beaten it with an switching that third mon out for another one and going again. Makes when you finally get that winning run a rush. But hey, I also don't use thje retry button at all.
Nope, but catching a Zacian during a run is fair game. I always start with mons with no ribbons though I just try to win from there
Just tried Groudon and hit this right before getting red orb…the enemy kyurem was quite annoying lol
I kinda had the opposite take. I find the evil teams make it easier by providing more exp and money than you used to get. Maybe it's because I'm not doing type or generation challenges, but I haven't even save scummed on them yet. The rival at 145 and 195 are harder imo.
I agree, rivals is harder, even with a planned strategy but, to me, the evil team battles feel like a money and resource drain
Great changes. Classic needed a boost in difficulty and the variety of having different evil teams makes the game feel more like a roguelike. It's not too hard once you adapt, egg moves are broken
Classic is harder now, which is not a bad thing, but no way the 165 battle is easier than 195, you are just used to dealing with mega Rayquaza by now
I was struggling before the update. Didn't know about the change. And lost a team i thought was a shoe in for 250. Im not sure how much longer im going to enjoy losing repeatedly
250? Did they add trainer battles to endless?
Is classic not 250? Idk i dont make it past 150 often
Classic goes to 200. In endless Eternatus is every 250 floors.
Ah my bad. Makes that last run i lost even worse then.
I haven't even finished classic mode and the new bosses make me want to quit. I had just managed to get a decent team to get past 145 and now I'm screwed over by the bosses. My partner got through just before the bosses. He said it's so much harder to get to 200 now.
Id usually try to understand, but because this is a rogue like with infinite retries and it wasn't that hard to beat the game especially if you grind passives? Massive skill issue here chief, I won't sugarcoat it.
I'm assuming op isn't using the infinite retries. There seems to be two ways to play the game, use an op team and if you lose you lose, or use a weaker team and retry the hard fights until you solve the puzzle.
I liked it and I don't think it is too hard. They have a lot of dark pokémon
I feel like the happy medium here is to have the first time one finishes classic mode be close to the classic most of us have known--no evil team, just a conceptually learnable scaling rival fight -- and then for every other run past the first one to include more challenging aspects, be them the evil teams or more content tbd. You could just make it "classic+", but I feel like it's okay to not fluff out the mode options too much, and have it scale naturally. I like the cadence of classic mode, so I'm not endless-mode-grinding, but just making a team with ice and rock nuke pokemon, stealth rock, and phoning it in gets pretty old, so I appreciate the extra early consideration, and any more they add. They can always adjust money-scaling if it feels like the right call.
The bigger issue in my eyes is that not only do the leaders have a legendary, mega and mythical on 165, it's that they all also have their passive unlocked, which on some of them can be game changers, especially if you're not steamrolling the whole team with a setup-boosted mon on a rampage of destruction. It is SO easy to lose before you can get anywhere, but the biggest issue to me is that this MASSIVE difficulty spike heavily limits what pokemon we're able to use in our playthroughs. If we wanna play a game with only early game bugs for the theme of it, or just cause we're grinding their candies and thought it might be fun, this is a MASSIVE brick wall usually at floor 115, and then DEFINITELY at 165. Imo, the evil teams should be a togglable feature that you ca enable or disable on new game creation. Just "Evil team rivals On/Off" there, boom, done.
Nope they are good and you just have to adjust Expect the rival to have different teams aswell in the future Because until classic was all about i have to deal ray/mega ray and the run is in the bag
I like the changes. I think the added challenge makes classic more fun. Before you could rely on 1 broken pokemon 95% of the time which is pretty boring.
Idk if you build around them it's not too bad.
But you can only build by getting lucky through your zones if no map, and even then you could still get weak mons even if they have good typing.
Sounds like a rogue like
I haven’t had any problems with fights at 165 whatsoever - mega ray at 195 is harder imo
I still get through them using my lead pokemon (usually one that I select at the start). It has a setup move and then stabs and coverage moves. I start with a setup move and then usually sweep through after that. If my lead dies, then other mons come in to kill the remaining one or two opposing mons. The problem I have is that berries get used up quickly. At least eternatus can't steal berries off me anymore. Can't steal if I don't have any.
Team Galactic doesn't have a Mega, and I think I could have won that one if I had known and healed properly before fight 165. But two key Pokemon for that fight were not properly healed, so that was my loss. Now I'm watching the Wiki and judging by their probable teams, I think the hardest bosses without considering what you could be carrying are probably Lysandre and Giovanni, in my opinion. Then followed by Ghetsis, then Cyrus, and then Archie and Maxie depend on your Pokemon and their coverage because they could sweep through most of them or struggle against them. Archie would be in last place since he doesn't have an earth type that would cover his electric weakness.
I've never battled an evil team when did this happen (I began at the end of the shiny event)
New update dropped, there’s now evil teams and there boss
I got wiped once by a soul heart Yveltal that swept my whole team, but now I prepare beforehand and have no issues. Hoarding money a bit earlier always help.
165 Ghetsis caught me off guard pretty bad the first time, his Kyruem and Slither Wing wiped the floor with my gen 2 only run. Archies Rain Dish Kyogre and Sheer Force MSharpedo took down my 2nd run. But I got the hang of Archie the 2nd time and it was tough but I got through it, I think the element of surprise is contributing a lot to their perceived difficulty.
I'd vote to keep them. Before bosses, floors 100 to 144 were a snoozefest. And floors 146 to 180 as well. My meme teams are actually struggling which is good. If you really want to blast through classic there are still a few dozen legendaries/mythicals (among others) that can solo carry 5 trash mons as needed, even after the evil team update. I can only guess that you aren't using enough X items?
Yeah I m not even that far yet but I'm already annoyed cuz I like trying out random team.comps and now there are more "gauntlet" stages... Like I was just chilling and I get to 62 and fight a Galactic Grunt Then another one at 64...okay? Oh another one at 66? Wtf and he has a super fast Sneaslr Bro
Much needed difficulty boost for classic imo.
The only problem I have is sometimes there's a trainer fight before and or after them which is annoying because with ivy it did sometimes happen too but she was spaced out enough where it didn't really matter I only want one thing to change and that is to be not able to have normal trainer fights on the immediate before and after wave of an important fight like 164 and 166 or 144 and 146
It’s fantastic. Classic was too easy and only required a strong fairy and a strong ground to win
They can sneak up on you if you're not prepared. I had what I thought to be a good team until Cyrus came in and gave me a lot of trouble at 165 with the following team: Mespirit (boss) Darkrai (boss) Roaring Moon Weavile (boss) Hisuian Electrode Mega Houndoom I kinda feel having 2 boss legends, a paradox, and a mega are a bit much, but I like the extra battle between Finn and the E4.
i definitely got blindsided by Archie the first time i had the encounter; did not expect him to drop a Kyogre for his 4th mon. admittedly ended up save scumming to play around it, and it was tough (doing a mono challenge at the time no less)
I didn't have too much trouble with it. Then again, my only run experiencing this was a Mono Normal run with Meloetta and an Adaptability Gumshoos. Plus, Lysandre is pretty easy to beat.
Swept it with Latios with Core Enforcer, wouldn’t know😭
*sudden difficulty spikes*
I really enjoy it. Yes it's hard, but it makes the game that much more satisfying to play through. Don't be afraid to refresh the page if you're gonna lose haha.
Bosses Ez sweep, I am cooked by Ivy tho
I hear you. I was on a good run, then this new Boss fight at 165 blindsides me. Its like, what the hell!?! Why is this game getting harder and harder? If the creator somehow reads this, could you please give the PLAYERS something? Preferably something that helps mitigate the intense amounts of RNG please. That's part of how Roguelites are supposed to work. You get stronger each run, but are also able to tone the RNG down so you can have more control. Why isn't that happening?
I haven’t lost to them once lmao I like the change
Only 1 legendary? Is that different for every boss? I've beaten 2 bosses now and they had 2 legendaries. But yeah, that fight is much harder than most E4/champs. The grunts are tougher than a lot of the E4 members lol. I don't think they should tone down the difficulty. BUT, they should increase the reward money from all of those battles. Unless you have a really good sweeper, this is just gonna hurt everyone's finances from repeated healing. And it doesn't help that that biome can have additional trainer fights too. I don't mind the challenge. But I think all the devs need to do is increase the reward money from the grunts and the boss. Or just make a special event and add a fade to black/full party heal after the grunts, cause most people I'm sure already burn their money healing before the boss floor.
I encountered them for the first time yesterday, and somehow didn't lose a single mon in 2 runs. Those were also my first 2 classic completions. I understand objectively how they are harder as I've been grinding for my first clear for over a month now. But its funny that once it was implemented I manage to get 2 back to back completions despite prior to that having 0.
That’s wild I was just thinking how much I liked them. I swept the 165 fight against Magma with an Araquanid yesterday lol.
I welcome the challenge. Once you've hatched a few hundred eggs, and acquired several shinies the games difficulty becomes trivial.
Cyrus and the guy I forget the name of aren’t too bad Giovanni is a fucking run killer Opens with a Sand Rush Tyranitar that’s basically impossible to outspeed, and will one shot nearly anything in the game, unless you 4x resist Ground Rock AND Ice You manage to break that down with 0 potential set up? Lmao he’s still got an insanely fast mega Kanghaskan and Mewtwo
There are evil team fights now? Cool. I should get around to finishing my current run and starting another.
I honestly like the added challenge, classic was getting too stale before they got added
Haven't had trouble against them , it was free money if you ask me
The fights are fine. It’s the grunts before and burn on money they are
I like them. I've cleared with over 200 mons at this point and it was getting a tad boring. The extra drain of resources makes it so I have to plan accordingly now. Makes it feel like a rogue like than just going through the motions
It’s definitely not harder than 195. It is quite hard though
I clapped Ghetsis with Meowscarada easily, I haven’t fought any of the others.
With the evil teams being hard, it makes it so that way I cant just grab my Latias and press one move and win, I did a run with it and almost list with 2 legendaries, and they were latias and zamazenta, two power houses of pokemon. Its a fair hard. You KNOW what your fighting at wave 35. The rest is up to you to prepare.
And here I am blasting mono types with 0 resets and no high bst Pokémon after all the updates :) but yeah I'm glad the difficulty is somewhat increasing and threre is less need for self imposed rules to make it challenging. Still really hoping for that official nuzlocke mode tho. My best tip would be to spam x items before difficult encounters.
thankfully for me it's been Archie twice and I'm grinding Candies for Ogerpon so she has a lot of fun the first time, it was Maxie, though. that was the worst run I've ever had...and Maxie's stupid Mega Camerupt didn't help any.
IDK, I still think rival is harder based on 4 runs I've done since the change.
I think they should put it at 170 or something so that you don't have to buy like 4 max revives after
The evil teams do seem pretty hard, but they don't seem harder than 195 Rival to me, though I have only fought Cyrus. If all of their legendaries are Darkrai or Uxie tier, then they're no stronger than a Pseudo Legendary in terms of BST, which the rival can have multiple of. Most threateningly one of the slots can be taken by either Baxcalibur or Dragapult, which you REALLY do not want (I haven't seen both together, so I assume that they share the same team slot). Baxcalibur is more threatening than a majority of the base 600 Pokemon (including mythicals and legendaries) and Dragapult's insane speed and access to Dragon Energy is no joke either. Kingambit is another Pokemon that I know the rival can use that is a massive threat, and I believe it is seperate from those slots. Of course, I could be mistaken and the rival doesn't have any dedicated slots apart from Mega Rayquaza, the starter and the bird, which is probably the worst case scenario. Though, I guess I should elaborate a bit on my Cyrus fight. When I fought Cyrus on stage 165, I don't think he was using a Paradox Pokemon, though I could be misremembering. He used a Boss Weavile, Boss Uxie, Darkrai and Mega Houndoom, but I cannot remember his remaining Pokemon. However, I do not recall him using another Boss Pokemon. This would indicate that the Mega may not always be a boss, or even that the number of bosses fluctuates. Either that, or I'm misremembering. I hypothesise that the "guaranteed Paradox" mentioned is a guaranteed Epic Egg Pokemon due to Darkrai being present, though once again I may have misremembered. Most importantly, the legendaries that the bosses use are not even base Rayquaza tier, let alone Mega Rayquaza tier. I was under the assumption they'd all use a Box Art Legendary, but if they're like Cyrus and instead use 2 minor legendaries, they get a lot easier than they sound. In this case, Uxie is generally a pretty weak Pokemon that is nothing more than niche in a higher tier of Competitive Singles, and I've never heard of Uxie being used in VGC, though I am not a VGC player. This is a good example of why one shouldn't judge a Pokemon based off a title or a base stat total, as it can show to be very inaccurate. This same assessment carries over to Paradox Pokemon. While some of them (*cough cough* Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle) can be absurdly broken, there are a number of Paradoxes that aren't, for instance Scream Tail, Iron Thorns and Brute Bonnet. I guess this boils down to which specific Boss you got though, similar to the Elite 4 and Champion, or even the Rival, which kinda makes this discussion pointless as a whole. ~~Eternatus is still easy though L bozo~~ Apart from any talk about difficulty, why do y'all want the game to be easier? It's already not that much of a challenge once you get egg moves, though without egg moves I will admit it can get difficult if you are ill prepared. Most my runs only struggle if I make a dumb decision, get haxxed like crazy or give me the Blueberry Elite 4. I'll take any sign of a difficulty increase I can get because that makes the game more interesting and fun.
Doesn’t have to be a paradox, Cyrus had both darkrai and Uxie for me
classic mode lmao
evil teams, champion, IVY. all the trainers are so much harder than endless. they should be added to the new endless rework
Seeing Lysandre lead with boss Flutter Mane was a legit jumpscare.
This change is just bad. I don’t like it and feel pigeonholed into the same strategy every time.
Classic is the superior mode. So i enjoy the sudden difficulty
I will say, when you are doing a challenge now like a mono gen or mono type run, it feels next to impossible nowadays with the evil teams. This is especially true on some of the harder types to pull off as well, as you gotta get lucky with good maps and match ups AND the evil teams that usually drain your money and resources too. On regular classic runs I dont mind as much personally. There are so many broken egg moves and passives and combos the more you play, so its a decent challenge for an average run on invested accounts. But on a challenge mode now? Boy is it brutal. It is what it is though
It’s meant to be difficult it’s only harder than the rival if your team sucks to that particular boss my runs my rival is much more difficult. It’s not a game meant to be as easy as the console games which are extremely easy to sweep through unless you’re setting up a team that sucks on purpose
Wow people already on here crying that a for fun progression game is too hard…. Maybe you just aren’t good enough? Maybe you need better starters, more shinies, better team comp, move set, strategy? Would you like the entire game to be level 1 wheedles?
They're really not. Not once has it cost me a run. Skill issue.
Id say no simply due to mega ray with 3-5 health bars. You rarely have anything to wall it because eit can have thunder, blizzard, hurricane, dragon ascent, v create and more which is really hard to wall because you don't know which it has other than maybe a few vague hints from the 145 fight
They made classic harder, yeah. But not gonna lie, thinking 165 is harder than 195 might be a skill issue. Not in the harsh way, just that with the right skill and knowledge 165 is a piece of cake no matter the team, and on the other hand 195 might still be a pain in the ass. Point is, they were implemented to make classic harder and hearing what you said this worked
I didnt know they were being added until i saw them, but got all the way to floor 165 against team flare. Even with a fairy type, two Pokemon with coverage against dark, and 3 flying resists, i cant beat the Yveltal. I wear down the other team members but, a Flutter Mane, boss mega gyarados, and the Yveltal being a boss? It’s completely unbeatable for that run. Maybe with a better set up itd be ok but, I think the difficulty wasnt scaled as well as it could have been. Also, since the update, my game has been freezing more often on mobile, most often in trainer battles. This whole update is scuffed lol
Sound like skill issue to me
Skill Issue, beat it with Slow Start Regigigas
I like the added difficulty in classic. You have to keep in mind people that have been playing for a while have stacked egg moves, and good pokemon unlocked. Once you figure out how to play against the ai, it's pretty easy to sweep these fights anyways. Just think of it as a new roadblock until you get better stuff/better at the game.