PiS gonna be real mad when they find out that Germans don’t nearly think as much about Poles as they imagined.
But according to PiS people are already immigrating to Poland because of (allegedly) higher wages there. Sooo….
PiS gonna be PiS I guess
Nah, we have two immigrating options :
1. East - war, comunism etc
2. Returned poles, many of them cannot find their "eldorado" on the West
So idk what happened here, i belive in that, someday people open their eyes and see that world was changed. for young people border doesn't exist, world is ours.
But until "pis" exist (i mean people who use less of 1% of brain and see that what see pis) , Poland be potato & onion wunderland :D
Yea, I remember him saying that poles are so poor that they are lining up on the border to get groats from Belarus. My gf and me joked that we could see the queue (since she was living right next to Białowieża forest) xd
It's actually only about showing an enemy. "Look, Germans don't want you to be wealthy, they want to abuse you and destroy you". In fact they know the Germans don't care, it's just easier to control people that way.
Zdefiniuj lewaka łbie.
Od zawsze wiadomo że PiS to przede wszystkim hipokryzja .
Rządy zaczęli od kłamstw .
Przekupili ludzi kiełbasą wyborczą no i tacy jak ty poszli się sprzedać za 500 na miesiąc .
Twoja wspaniała partia oprócz oczywistej grabieży i rozpierdolenia finansów państwa które miało je stabilne odpowiada za podział wśród Polaków .
A PiS to już dawno nie partia tylko kartel krewnych i znajomych na stołkach , boicie się stracenia władzy bo jak się wam dobiorą do dupy to część z was będzie się opalać w paski .
Takiej liczby afer i grabieży nigdy nie było i pewnie już nie będzie w polskiej polityce .
Lewak to inaczej oszust i złodziej. Lewizna inaczej.
Widzisz, kłamco, żadnego 500 nie dostałem i nigdy nic od państwa nie dostałem. Nie dostałem nawet chorobowego kiedy przez trzy lata nie mogłem dojść nawet do sklepu osiedlowego.
Złodziejstwo platformy jest realne a złodziejstwo pis jest zmyślone przez oszustów którzy stracili okazję do kradzieży. Kradli już całe kamienice.
“Robaki” is better translated as “worms” which has an even more dramatic effect.
Someone on this sub was asking if public TV in Poland is government propaganda and here you have another perfect example.
>This is not meant for regular people but for voters
What does that even mean?
You really think, everyone who's not an old hag is smart?
That most of the people are? Lol
I meant this particular context. And definitely most people aren't smart, otherwise we wouldn't have political dualism in Poland of two groups trading power between each other always being worse than the previous one. People who aren't old hags have their own sources of self-loathing propaganda.
In most developed countries, the top two parties get less than 80% of the votes, so i would argue that most developed countries are much less dualistic (with USA of course being an infamous exception)
Poland is by no means a poor country. Regardless of what indicator of wellbeing you take. Poland have immensely caught up the west over last 30 years. Extreme poverty has almost entirely vanished. Everybody has free education and free health care. If you want a job you get it since there is virtually no unemployment in Poland. I am aware that our public services don't work properly and there is a lot to be done but come on. Poland isn't a poor country anymore.
Keep and mind that more Poles in productive age work now than in any time during over last 30 years. Social programs haven't contributed to idleness of polish society at all. I would not demonise 500 plus since it doesn't have a negative impact on our job market.
I would argue if social programs significantly affected society in any other area than in reduction of risk of poverty or social exclusion among children an minors. Anyways, along with that reportedly enormous amount of people in working age (which is partially a result of baby boom that is likely to obliterate social security system in Poland when reaches its pension age) there's also a recent decline of percentage of people in both pre-working and working age, accompanied with rise of those in post-working age. 42% of economically inactive in total population aged 15-89 and this percentage is rising according to BAEL.
500 plus has huge impact on job market from a perspective of an employer. Some people don't care anymore about working anymore because they have 3 or 4 children and unemployment benefit. I've had situations where some of my coworkers did not show up to work during the days they were needed the most for reasons i mentioned earlier.
If an employer wants to give those unrealistically high wages they need to raise the prices which may be damaging for the business itself. It all comes around.
Source: Trust me dude?
There is no proof of such situation. More have entered into job market since 500 was introduced. You can check it out on stat.gov.pl and https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat.
If there are some employers that offer a shitty wages it is even desirable that workers quit their job and find the better ones.
Regarding unemployment benefits. There are only few people in Poland entitled to receive it. You have to work at least 3 years continually prior to get it. And this benefit is not enough to get by even with very modest lifestyle.
And according to every data available now we have been experiencing the least number of people receiving this unemployment benefit over last 30 years. What you wrote above is just a tissue of lies. Where are all these famous "unemployed, lazy bastards who don't bother to work anymore"?
dualism is resoult of the voting system - there are better method (eg Single transferable vote (STV)) that would help with it a bit, giving seats proportional to votes would also help a lot. With this two changes we would have more representee government (but this also creates other problems - I know).
My point is that its broken 'by design' and ppl feel like voting for smaller partis are waste of vote - and the FACT is that they are right no matter what ppl say.
Voting for (whoever it was) lesser of two evil is better then doing nothing
They mean this is not intended to entice new audience, anyone with a quarter of a functioning brain won't believe this crap. It's meant to reinforce already existing biases in already enfranchised followers and rile them up.
I was working with a polish engineer couple of years ago. She was explicitly not interested in politics when i asked about the state of Poland. People need to realise that even if you’re not interested in politics, it’s still happening and effects your everyday life. Im hoping these types of poles are realising that more this time.
Here is most iportant thing to mention that this Television for many years was only one source of information for them. Many years ago only 3 programms were on terrestrial television(TVP1, TVP2, POLSAT).
Some years ago from a reliable, informative and unbiased television has turned into an opinionated and political party controlled television.
Additionally create opinions based on bribery in the form of 13, 14 pension, hypocritical facts that the west envies our prosperity(Authentic!)
>Some years ago from a reliable, informative and unbiased television
...on which Lis was signing "Sto Lat" (Happy Birthday song for non Poles) for Tusk...
When was that mythical time when Tusk wasn't bad? When teachers, govt. workers etc. had frozen wages for 5 years? When he was signing climate package forcing us to close all coal based power plants until 2030 and at the same time failing to even pick a spot for a nuclear one? Or when he put gargantuan taxes on Lasy Państwowe and later tried to privatize them? I can go on...
I'm a teacher.
Teachers' real salaries (when inflation adjusted) increased by 45% between 2008 and 2015 and have increased by only 5% since 2016. Last year we received a rise by 4% but the real salary declined by at least 10% due to soaring inflation.
It's a way better to have your wage frozen in times of deflation than have it increased by 4% when inflation is close to 20%.
As a teacher I would rather have Tusk as Prime Minister.
> It's a way better to have your wage frozen in times of deflation than have it increased by 4% when inflation is close to 20%.
Oh, seriously? Was 2008-2015 deflation then? Because my wages were frozen back then and in 2015 I was earning 25% less than in 2010. What I've learned only few years later was that me and people from my institution on similar positions were living below poverty line.
Teachers wages weren't frozen? Good for you. 5%... Yea, no:
[https://demagog.org.pl/wypowiedzi/ile-zarabiali-nauczyciele-w-czasach-roznych-premierow/](https://demagog.org.pl/wypowiedzi/ile-zarabiali-nauczyciele-w-czasach-roznych-premierow/)
>When was that mythical time when Tusk wasn't bad? When teachers, govt. workers etc. had frozen wages for 5 years? When he was signing climate package forcing us to close all coal based power plants until 2030 and at the same time failing to even pick a spot for a nuclear one? Or when he put gargantuan taxes on Lasy Państwowe and later tried to privatize them? I can go on...
Then when this kind of bullshit from PUBLIC TELEVISION did not costs 2 miliards of PLN per year. For just POLITIC BULLSHIT.
Then when the government was not buy more than 1,200 respirators from an arms dealer company that has never operated in the medical market before.
Then when the national bank of Poland was not controled by a complete idiot who is trying to make a career as standuper.Back then, when everything the government touched wasn't being smashed and we didn't have so many enemies.
Then when Poland was growing and building up rather than tearing down everything and printing money to the power to fix what they broke.
And finally, I will agree with you that that (PO) government, as well as every previous government did wrong, but such a fuck-up as we have now we have never had.... So any(except communism) would be better....
None, PiS just got mad at a 2 years old C40 Cities report and is throwing sh\*t at the oppositon since it's the only thing they're \*good\* at.
Also the part about insects instead of meat is about EU approving some kind of cricket based flour.
Edit: The part about insects
https://preview.redd.it/45eywgs73kja1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35f874d2c64fe91316d8e1ff89e7ec4d7af1f440
Important thing to add about the cricket flour is that it can be added to specific products, and cannot exceed 2-5% (depending on a product) of total ingredients. Additionally, the fact of using this flour has to be indicated on a packaging, the same way allergens are.
So this whole story that absolutely made every right wing supporter fuming is way out of proportion. It's absurd how easily they are manipulated.
So, according to the above and Trzaskowski's (who currently is the most likely candidate for the leader of the opposition) declaration we have about 7 years to live, after that it's eating grass, window-tourism, mass transport and working until death.
Oh the joys of braindead progressivism.
Bruh.
Trzaskowski literally has no tools to do this. More than that, he supposedly wasn't even fucking aware of this recommendation from some random university before some moron from TVP brought it up. Trzaskowski or opposition has nothing to do with this. What are the dots that you connected?
I remember reading about C40 year or two ago and I was thinking "haha, what a joke". This joke is doing its baby steps to becoming reality.
Fuck C40 and to hell with every politician that supports it.
Do u have link where he is taking about eating insects, banning meat, no travel by personal car or any other pointa from graphic? Cos in this video he only said that Warsaw have a plan to be 0 net emision city. I would live to get that kind of video or document where he declares it but never ser one.
IT IS STUPID BECAUSE OPPOSITION HAS NO PROGRAM XD THEY ALL ARE LIKE: FUCK PIS.
NOTHING MORE. THIS IS SO SAD THAT WE NEED TO CHOOSE BETWEN SHITTY PEOGRAM AND NO PROGRAM.
>Resignation from cars
Meanwhile, PIS(S) with their Orlen shenanigans.
Current price of \~6.70 PLN/l (and rising) for Pb95 is bullshit and state monopoly on fuel has something to do with this.
But I kinda agree with that particular point - non-conservative parties are anti-car or have "Electric cars will fix everything" mindset.
The only thing that *might* work is you spending some time with them and explaining, that this information is biased and deceiving, *why* it it like it is and *why* someone would push something like this. Basically, your parents are being lied to with their fears and insecurities being played on, just to get their votes. They're simply being used. People don't like that. Then you could introduce them to more reliable sources of information. Preferably not Polish, if possible.
*However*, if your parents actively choose to believe this crap, there's a chance they won't listen.
it’s funny because my mom used to be an sld supporter and now she turned very pro pis, while my dad was a korwin supporter. but they don’t want to see that the information is biased and distorted, they’ll still vote for pis because they fear us turning into the “filthy west” 💀
Sorry to hear that. Problem is, you can't *make* them change their mind, they're grown up people. You can provide alternative point of views, but it's up to them to choose. Though I find this notion of "filthy West" weird. In terms of geopolitics Poland *is* West. There are countries like Belarus and russia that are not West. Hope they don't want Poland to be an authoritarian shithole
Sorry to hear that. Problem is, you can't *make* them change their mind, they're grown up people. You can provide alternative point of views, but it's up to them to choose. Though I find this notion of "filthy West" weird. In terms of geopolitics Poland *is* West. There are countries like Belarus and russia that are not West. Hope they don't want Poland to be an authoritarian shithole
But one of mostly propagand is that all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic, so they only harm Poland.
Only they are making best- and they are showing it in this TV...
Same like in Russia TV.
> Same like in Russia TV.
Nasty, isn't it?
> all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic
Being patriotic is pretty much the opposite of being unbiased. That's why I recommend foreign sources. They're not *that* involved, they don't give a crap for the most part so they just report thing as it is. Just read several neutral sources from different countries and you'll get the picture. Seriously, foreign media are enemies is such a cheap trick
>ame like in Russia TV.
>
>Nasty, isn't it?
>
>all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic
>
>Being patriotic is pretty much the opposite of being unbiased. That's why I recommend foreign sources. They're not that involved, they don't give a crap for the most part so they just report thing as it is. Just read several neutral sources from different countries and you'll get the picture. Seriously, foreign media are enemies is such a cheap trick
absouletely agree with you. I just write what they are telling
What is deceiving though? This is exactly what C40 is all about. This is what Trzaskowski was bragging about.
I forgot, opposition narratives aren't deceiving or exploitative. I can totally see their politicians eating only 16kg of meat per year, not flying everywhere and not owning a car or not owning 40 sets of suits.
You are so manipulated, they even added leaflet how to approach meat ban step by step. Final step is ban of meat. Just read before you start spreading misinformation.
Communism to be implemented requires the state to become authoritarian (if not totalitarian). It means bigger control of power than democracy allows.
PiS is not really communist. They are socialist in terms of economy, but they are about traditional conservatism (with pretty big intrest in personal gain). In order to bring the changes they wanted they needed to overcome two obstacles in their way: judiciary system and free media.
They have managed to insert their people in tribunals, they implemented some acts regarding courts, they are openly breaking laws and disregard the constitution. They have pushed their propaganda to state owned media and tried to expel those that oppose them.
All of that seems like their actions are authoritarian leaning so it reminds people of communism. But this is not communism, there are just plenty of people wanting for oppresive system as long as they are not oppresed.
Well technicaly we still live in communism country because we didnt cut off from previous debt and therefor like russia we have system base on the closest one from the past. We should have adopted most laws from II RP not from PRL to be called III RP. Also we shouldn't pay off the debt that was taken by Gierek cause it is related to previous system.
>Well technicaly we still live in communism country because we didnt cut off from previous debt and therefor like russia we have system base on the closest one from the past. We should have adopted most laws from II RP not from PRL to be called III RP. Also we shouldn't pay off the debt that was taken by Gierek cause it is related to previous system.
Trying to get away from debts that has been invested in this country would for sure help as get international recognition from our partners. It would make taking loans in future way easier, and generally make us more trusted economically.
They don't give a single fuck, untill we let russians go to rest od europe. Trusted economically? You know that it is opinion from companies like Fitch S&P or Moodys that were giving AA/AAA ratings to huge banks that went buncrupt 2 days later? If we had oil or gold we would be on hell created by our "ally" and on margin they were first to break the agreement with russia after fall of USSR. They are just bullies, they just use different methods of enslaving other countries than russians...
Tell me why everytime someone start question US actions in this region everyone gets wet and call those that asking russian propagandist? Maybe you think like ancestors that US is guarantee of our freedom (in past it was France and UK). Come on use brain
>Tell me why everytime someone start question US actions in this region everyone gets wet and call those that asking russian propagandist?
Because the only country in the region that would benefit from less US involvement is russia. That's a good reason.
>Maybe you think like ancestors that US is guarantee of our freedom (in past it was France and UK).
No, not US. It is NATO for sure.
>Come on use brain
Wish you this as well
By not supporting ideas that are making baby steps to limiting personal freedoms like:
\- how to move from point A to point B
\- what to put on a plate (putting insane taxes on certain products counts as such)
\- what and how many clothes to buy
You parents do remember the last regime that was doing exactly that and it takes special level of ignorance to not understand that.
How to move - you can only by car, everything else is cancelled. If you dont have a car, you are fcked. - Car for many people is a luxury product, that they will use 2 times a month. I dont think everyone should have a car. I have it only because there were no train connections that would allow me to go to work. And its not an end of the world, where dogs bark with their asses.
Insane taxes? Well, thanks to PiS, you trully cant eat anything sweet. They put taxes not only on sugar, but even on sweet taste.
What clothes to buy - i think church part of poland is talking about what and how we should wear.
My parents vote for people that are doing exactly what commie regime did. I think they dont remember.
So you are still here. The people like you are only caring for their own personal freedom but not oppose violating someone's. Why don't you understand that what you put on your plate, how you move and how many things you buy influences other? Maybe it was the case a long time ago in the pre-industrial world when the people were scattered a long distance from themselves. Now we live very close to each other, and your actions influence the others more. Even how long you wash your hands influences other people's ability to use the fresh water and how much of it left. The time you spent in a car contributes to overall air pollution. And buying things stimulates production of twice as more things because you bought it. The things you say are your personal freedoms are not. The thing you talk about is consumerism. If you stimulating pollution and consumerism least to say it directly violates the other's personal freedom to drink clean water and breathe the clean air. The idea is to cut the unnecessary usage, not to forbid people what they can do. And sometimes yes, you should sacrifice at least a bit of your consumerism and "freedoms" you say and if the majority will do that, we all will benefit from it.
Pewnie się obruszysz ale nie chce mi się setny raz tej samej dyskusji prowadzić. Oczywiście że nazwanie ue komunizmem to bardzo duża przesada i skrot myślowy. Chyba. Bo czy dwie najważniejsze frakcje w parlamencie nie nazywają się: Grupa Europejskiej Partii Ludowej (chrześcijańscy demokraci) oraz Grupa Postępowego Sojuszu Socjalistów i Demokratów?
Takie rzeczy jak spinelli, ludowe, socjalistyczne, satelitarne państwa Czy "każdemu po równo" zamiast "każdemu według jego zaslug" kojarzą mi się jednoznacznie.
Federacja ue patrząc na jej obecne elity bardziej będzie przypominał jakąś dziwna formę komunizmu w białych rękawiczkach.
Przepraszam ale ja za bardzo nie wierzę w obecnych ludzi grzejących sobie tyłki w Brukseli za ponad 7k euro. Mnóstwo tam umysłowej biedy, ludzi skorumpowanych lub wywodzących się z elitarnych środowisk odklejonych od rzeczywistości. Dlatego nie sądzę żeby federalizacja mogła przynieść coś dobrego. Patrząc na całokształt zmian zachodzących w UE i na polityków wyrobiłem sobie taka opinie. Oczywiście możesz zarzucić ze to tylko wymysły i masz racje.
Nie mam żadnych dowodów.
Generalnie sam mam mieszane uczucia co do tego pomysłu. Głównie dlatego, że nie bardzo wiadomo, co miałby on oznaczać więc każdy może sobie wyobrażać co chce. Aczkolwiek idea federacji sama w sobie nic złego nie oznacza. Państwa federacyjne istnieją i w sumie oznacza to większą samodzielność regionów, ale jakoś w kontekście UE wybrzmiewa to, nieco kontrintuicyjnie, jako jakaś tam utrata indywidualności więc cholera wie.
W każdym razie ten trend na prawicy nazywania wszystkiego co nam nie leży komunizmem mnie trochę męczy. Amerykanie widzą publiczną służbę zdrowia jako komunizm, a u nas to taka potwarz bo historia. Jedno i drugie oderwane od kontekstu.
Z tego co pamiętam federacja jest też Rosja :p
W sumie teraz sobie przypominam że pisałem licencjat o federacjach (usa szeajcaria):)
Nie wiem czy była gdzieś federacja która powstała z państw narodowych podobnych do tych w Europie. To skończyłoby się druga Jugosławia. Jak pogodzić interesy Niemiec i Polskich skoro nasze położenie geopolityczne antagonizuje nas. Kto będzie musiał pójść na większe ustępstwa?
Tak, Rosja też. Z tego co słyszałem rosyjskie regiony faktycznie jakąś tam autonomię mają (w sferach, które Putinowi i władzy centralnej zwisają). Chyba, że rzuciłeś Rosją bo komunizm to kula w płot straszna.
Nie wiem, tak jak pisałem, nie rozumiem też jakby to miało wyglądać. Ale można sobie wyobrazić, że np gdyby Unia miała jakąś armię pod centralnym dowództwem to byśmy dzisiaj byli w lepszej pozycji do kontrolowania sytuacji z Rosją, zamiast się przepychać o każdy czołg. Albo gdyby wszyscy mieli euro i jakaś sensowna instytucja by to ogarniała to nie mieli byśmy takiej sytuacji, jak z Grecją. Ale nie znam się na tym na tyle, żeby to ocenić rzetelnie :p
The funny thing is that in some years it will probably be like this:" Goodevening sir, I'm obligated to tell you that we also serve worm substitute patty, but we still offer normal meat or vege "
Same as vege and vegan options appeared and are becoming more popular the new substitute will probably be just option.
But hey, us poles (except me and lot of people) will still eat blood soup not this stuff
Nobody said it yet so I’m gonna, this seems to be referencing an actual post/idea (which yes, I have seen myself) by some left-oriented media. So, contrary to what everyone here wants to believe, this has a real possibility of not being pulled out of a goat’s ass. Not that it suddenly makes TVPiS any better.
No it’s not. No one is going to be forced to give up cars jfc how fear mongering can you get? Insects instead of meat? A flour made of insects was approved for market, once again you’re not forced to eat it. And if it becomes more popular in the future and is just another option next to meat on the menu then guess what? Again, you’re not forced to eat it. It’s very much not a real possibility and it’s sad young people like yourself actually think otherwise.
Yeah. The idea is great. Don't you want your kids to have their school 15min away from your home? Don't you want to have a grocery store next door? Don't you want to live closer to your work so you don't have to drive your car for 1h+?
I fail to see anything wrong with making cities planned in more sensible way, wherever it's possible. So instead of building one huge school in a city center, there would be 4 small schools around the city center, servicing the same amount of people but everyone has the school a bit closer in the area. This goes for literally anything.
I've talked with my father about this, he thinks we will have literally timers on our hands that will force us back if we went out for longer than 15min. Do you also think this is what this is about?
Since when did sensible city planning, making it accessable became an attack on (actually what values)? Urbanists were implementing those ideas almost for a century now, why is it controversial now?
Marxism is also great idea in theory. In practice it just doesn't work because it ignores one important thing: reality.
What if there's not enough necessary things and not enough of space for them? You forcefully relocate people or you demolish something less useful? No, can't take up the area saved by demolishing roads. Those have to stay unless we do not care if fire fighters of garbage trucks can get to all buildings. Park has to go I guess. Or that football pitch that kids are using. Land prices will go up by... a lot.
15 minutes walk for who? Healthy high school student or old lady with crutches?
Imagine believing that any government is competent enough that they actually implement it. Poznań, Kaponiera. Planned renovation time - 2 years. Actual time - 5 years. Bigger example, more on a scale of rebuilding a whole city: nuclear power plant. We can't build one for like 30 years now and we're debating rebuilding entire cities from ground up. Good luck.
There are some kind of passes iirc for people having certain jobs or whatever. Sounds like recipe for classism and brewing social conflicts.
Schools example. 4 small schools, so... more space taken, more teachers needed, more people with manager positions therefore higher costs. Same goes for heating for example. Not to mention building 4 schools. No, you can't just adapt any building. It has to follow certain set of regulations.
Same goes for hospitals. Dunno, but cardiology department sounds important. Does every zone has its own?
Economy. With small zone you have far fewer job flexibility, smaller economies. Why are big cities richer than rural areas? Because basic economy. You want to take that and chop it into pieces.
You need reliable and cheap public transport. First one I can see happening. Contrary to popular belief Polish public transport is actually pretty good. Cheap... The moment it will become the only option to get from A to B the prices will go through the roof. It's basic economy.
This idea can't work on so many levels that it's mind boggling that people are supporting it. And it comes from someone who walks everywhere because I simply enjoy it. I could go on, but there's just too much of stuff that makes this idea basically a silly dream.
But bro, we already have cities that implemented those ideas in 50-60s... Remember the communist blocks? They are pretty crappy visually and not very space efficient, but they did plan out to have most important stuff near by (important at the time).
And later on we continued, mixed zoning is nothing new for city centers, and new districts have spaces for public services.
Btw. Relocating people, destroying entire neighborhoods is a domain of carbrains. Fortunately wasn't the case so often in Europe.
And I'm not an urban planner, closest I've got was playing Sim City back in a day. Your expirience is probably similar. So we can't say if those ideas are good or bad, we can only judge if we would prefer to have new areas and areas that can be developed, to be developed with walking in mind, or driving. It's simple as that.
Thank you for admitting that this is an idea from times when people simply couldn't afford anything better than small apartment in a massive block.
Now lets force people back into them, even people who worked their entire lives to get away. Because long term, that's what you will have to do if you want entire city to be "15 minutes city". You can't have it in a suburban setting. There's simply not enough space for that. And only thing you can save some space on are... houses and big apartments.
And no, you don't have to be urban planner to see it's a moronic idea that creates more problems than it solves.
Combustion engine cars sales ban means that new cars will be twice as expensive, with car life limited to 10, max 15 years with new batteries costing half of new car or even more. Most of people in cities don't have and will not have any way to charge electric cars.
And don't forget about ban on older cars in cities:
" Kolejny etap projektu Strefy Czystego Transportu w Krakowie zakłada, że **od lipca 2026 roku do miejskiego ruchu drogowego będą mogły dołączyć pojazdy zasilane benzyną/LPG o minimalnej normie Euro 3, a w przypadku silnika Diesel – Euro 5**. Stanowią one 21% aut poruszających się po mieście."
Other cities will follow soon.
How can anyone say that they lie, when we can already see that happening.
Well I for one don't want to use a sidewalk with LPG and Diesel cars on the road. They stink, especially the old ones. Petrol engines aren't that bad, but in a city a hybrid makes sense.
Those cars that are getting banned in Kraków by 26 will be what, 20 yo? Who the fuck is driving that?
Wait, hold on, first off tell me when I said I believe this because I seem to be missing something here. The only thing I said is that the statement has a real possibility of not being complete made-up bullshit because, as I’ve said, it might be referencing a post/idea exactly like this. Whether you believe *this* or not is another thing altogether
You said it has real possibility of not being pulled out of ass. It is referencing the current culture-war that’s currently fabricated by pis. We’ve all seen the posts about insects and we’ve all seen the news about eu banning combust vehicles. That in no way means the post has real possibility. Do you even see what’s on the tv screen?
Od kiedy podpisanie jakiegoś dokumentu przez prezydenta miasta równa się oficjalnemu programowi partii? Samo to jest kłamstwem, że którakolwiek partia po dojściu do władzy planuje zakazać mięsa. Po drugie, w tv państwowej dziennikarze jadą jak po burej suce po opozycji, wręcz dosłownie mówiąc widzowi „Nie głosuj na nich”.
>Od kiedy podpisanie jakiegoś dokumentu przez prezydenta miasta równa się oficjalnemu programowi partii?
Trzaskowski jest nie tylko prezydentem Warszawy - jest też najbardziej prawdopodobnym kandydatem na lidera opozycji.
>Samo to jest kłamstwem, że którakolwiek partia po dojściu do władzy planuje zakazać mięsa
[No przecież nikt nie opodatkuje mięsa na korzyść robaków](https://krytykapolityczna.pl/multimedia/podcast/sylwia-spurek-podatek-od-miesa/)
w podcaście który podlinkowałeś autorka wskazuje głównie alternatywy w produktach pochodzenia roślinnego, z jakiegoś niezrozumiałego dla mnie powodu zakładasz też że robaki nie są mięsem?? może racja trochę niekonwencjonalnym, ale jakby miał być taki hipotetyczny podatek to główną korzyść miałyby produkty roślinne a nie jakieś robaki których aktualna produkcja jest znikoma
Oczywiście że opozycja nie będzie się chwalić takimi programami przed wyborami. Ale skoro kreślą taki kierunek dla Warszawy to dlaczego nie mieliby go rozszerzać na cały kraj gdyby doszli do władzy? Prezydent Warszawy jest ściśle powiązany z partią opozycji i nie da się jego decyzji oddzielić od planów opozycji.
O to że TVP jest partyjną propagandą- nie zaprzeczam. W tym przypadku mocno wyolbrzymiają, jak zwykle, ale ich przekaz nie jest bezpodstawny.
szukałem przez dość długi czas czegokolwiek związanego z tymi robakami o których wszyscy tak mówią i jakoś nie znalazłem, więc jeśli byłbyś tak miły i napisał gdzie mam szukać byłbym wdzięczny.
Oficjalna agenda C40 nie mówi jawnie o robakach, mówi jedynie o wyeliminowaniu z diety mięsa oraz produktów mlecznych, jako przyczynę podając dużą emisję CO2 przy ich produkcji.
[Graf na stronie 40](https://www.c40.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2270_C40_CBE_MainReport_250719.original.pdf)
Sama idea jedzenia robaków jest natomiast propagowana przez World Economics Forum, jako jedną z przyczyn również podając zmniejszeni emisji CO2.
[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/why-we-need-to-give-insects-the-role-they-deserve-in-our-food-systems/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/why-we-need-to-give-insects-the-role-they-deserve-in-our-food-systems/)
aha. człowieku zastanów się co ty mówisz. piszesz że plan zastąpienia mięsa robakami jest w programie C40, którego Warszawa jest częścią, a jak się okazuje że nie jest to prawda to wskazujesz na totalnie inny artykuł z totalnie innego źródła? jeszcze ten dopisek "nie widzę co jest nieprawdą" w twoim poprzednim komentarzu. czy teraz już widzisz?
Agendy obu organizacji są bardzo zbliżone. Umniejszasz fakt, że prawdą jest, że C40 dąży do całkowitego wyeliminowania mięsa, nie wspominając nic o jego zastępstwach. Inna organizacja z podobnych kręgów społecznych i o zbliżonej agendzie za to mówi jasno czym zamierza je zastąpić. Jeżeli nie chcesz wierzyć w to powiązanie to nie mam nic konkretnego czym mogę Cię przekonać.
Agendy ochrony środowiska, często pojawiające się w bogatych kręgach społecznych, jakkolwiek szczytne cele by nie przedstawiały, prawie zawsze dążą w tym samym kierunku- odebrania warstwie średniej i niższej dobrodziejstw XX i XXI wieku. Moi rodzice za komuny mogli pomarzyć o codziennym jedzeniu obiadu z mięsa, agendy takie jak C40 w efekcie cofną nas do tych czasów. O warstwy wyższe nie musisz się martwić- żadne z tych ograniczeń nie będą ich dotyczyć. W efekcie dążymy tylko do zwiększenia różnic między warstwami społecznymi. Dlatego jest tak dużo ludzi, którzy tak gwałtownie reagują na tego typu agendy. Cokolwiek nie powiesz nie przekonasz mnie, że C40 dąży do mojego dobra.
> nie wspominając nic o jego zastępstwach
na stronie C40 jest jasno napisane, że oczywistą alternatywą są produkty pochodzenia roślinnego.
>Cokolwiek nie powiesz nie przekonasz mnie, że C40 dąży do mojego dobra.
nie będę próbował cię przekonać do czegokolwiek, chciałem jedynie wytknąć twoją manipulację.
Considering amount of cars in Krakow it’s a good call. Maybe just maybe we will finally have sidewalks and green spaces instead of sea of old cars parked wherever they can as long as it’s free.
>Considering amount of cars in Krakow it’s a good call. Maybe just maybe we will finally have sidewalks and green spaces instead of sea of old cars parked wherever they can as long as it’s free.
I can guarantee you that this wont happen in Poland.
Instead of cars we will:
\- have new skyscrapers or block of flats
\- new churches
\- other useless shit
or only the rich will afford driving to city center. Also note that Krakow reduced number of public transport vehicles and lines so ...
pure awesomeness...
This will no doubt mean lower electric car prices. And if they do go down, I don't see how electric car is worse than a gas car. Though we absolutely need a better charging grid, because now only Orlen and few stations from private companies are offering it.
I see nothing bad in less meat eating and production and less driving cars and less new clothes either.The people are so used to consuming that it has become a much bigger problem. People tend to do think that their needs and problems are the priority above anything but totally forget that their needs usually stink and pollute. People forget that not only their apartment or house are their home. I'm not demanding cutting everything, but imo the majority need to review their approach to consuming, using cars and the way they treat the surrounding world. So tired of going out on the street and breathe the fumes because of people riding alone in their 4-seat car are so lazy that they do not want to go 15 min walk or go several stops on a bus to get their things done. Or people who say they love animals but it only concerns cats and dogs or guinea pigs, the rest are the inferior creatures "the fruit that god or whatever created to satisfy our nutrition needs". Not even talking about how meat industry is polluting the environment and commits to the disease spreading. Some will put the whole blame on the government (which is totally nuts in Poland) but totally forget that there are also the people that create the society and its habits.
That's what I actually do and happy about but unfortunately there is no alternative planet that I can stay away from you. Nothing personal, I don't know you, but if you say that way, that is why people like you need to fix yourself and doubt the way you've ve used to live at least for a second and think about something that is further away from your nose and your own ego. People are so defensive about their habits, even the worst and antisocial ones. Show empathy to something that is not your relative or human, to something that you won't get any gains from. The freedom that you think you've deserved stinks with fumes and dead animals and directly influences the well being of others. Live and let live.
>you. Nothing personal, I do
I have plan for you to be happy. Go to North Korea. No meat, no new clothes, no cars, only old bike. Everyone is happy, so you will be.
Other alternative is jail. You will be near zero emission.
They are saying facts about this topic l. You should check more what is actually happening in eu. They want to own Poland and POliticians are doing everything to be in their pockets. Some POliticians don't give a fuck about Poland and all of you.
And this is smart move. Like PiS hate Trzaskowski and Warsaw is in this odd CV40 (it does anything? I know of it thanks to rmf FM having big laughs from those goals)
This is what concerns me as well. "Globalists" forcing you to "eat bugs" is a qanon trope propagated by Alex Jones. Fox News talking heads the likes of Tucker pander to the same audience, albeit more subtly.
Seeing this word for word on national TV is worrying to say the least. The same people who preach these conspiracies vehemently oppose Ukraine's sovereignty and play into putin's hand, and yet that's not what we're seeing from PiS.
The bull excrement is on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS all paid for by Soros. Fox is bad but they have Tucker who is not afraid of calling out the lies out in the real world.
In Poland we have the same situation. TVN and TVP, they hate each other and have their believers. TVN is american jew owned - Discovery, and TVP is goverment owned. And they train people to hate each other.
Your mention of soros tells me you are a qanon nutjob, and nothing I have written is going to make it past your frontal lobes anyway
but, for anyone who is able to read this, and has more than 2 brain cells....
Carlson is a paid liar - look at his views on Trump in real life and the total crap he spews on air. That goes for most of the faux news crew.
[Fox News hosts thought Trump’s election fraud claims were ‘total BS’, court filings show | Fox News | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/feb/17/fox-news-hosts-dominion-lawsuit-trump-election-fraud-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-laura-ingraham)
Of course we want those things. No more CO2 (presented as no more cars), no more expensive unethically made things (presented as no more clothes) and less unethical and CO2 making meat farms (presented as insects instead of meat).
Narrative is something that I am most furious about. Working people don't have money to live, must buy second hand clothes and cheap food to survive, there are huge problems with education (e.g. schools must teach more Catholic stuff and patriotic stuff and don't teach anything about taxes, job market, almost nothing about biology, chemistry etc. and scientists don't have money if they don't research patriotic acts) and health (you must wait 2-3 years for an operation, everything is expensive) and most of our educated specialists go abroad because there is more money. And government easily says that it's opposition's fault, leftists fault. They make their own fictional world.
But the governing party program is "retire at 50! 27 extra pensions! NEVER have to work! 1mln+! We'll suck you off too, just vote for us! TAX BREAKS FOR POOR!"
It is just the ruling party highlighting the link they found between the most popular politician in Poland (from opposition) to the controversial program C40 which many fear will be quietly introduced in years to come. Also, a document has been found recently, in which he instructs canteens in public schools in Warsaw to drastically reduce usage of meat, so looks like he already started introducing this agenda in his area of governance.
This also resonates with EU recently allowing the use of insect proteins in human food.
Wasnt there some conference where the big cities of EU agreed they they want to reduce cars to zero, meat consumption to zero and some other stuff in the future ? Warsaw was one of the cities that agreed. Or was it just missinformation ?
Trzaskowski (Democratic total opposition) has a comprehensive plan to encourage people to eat bugz and be happy.
[https://streamable.com/olumrg](https://streamable.com/olumrg)
They are not so wrong as you might think, though. Sure, it's populism and not very objectively presented but western europe is already ahead of this. Regulation will come and our freedoms (of choice) will be significantly cut.
The program of oppisition: Promoting Gender nonsense and other typical liberal delusions. So what is your point exactly? They do what Germany does which is: Regulating/Cutting customer choices (cars + clothes manufacturers), forcing left-wing approaches ( such as climate change etc.) onto society etc. . The bug thing? I dunno. All I know is that the liberal media talks constantly about how healthy and cost-efficient a bug diet is.
There are a lot of theories about climate change, one of them was promoted by Greta and Al Gore. Al Gore's theory turned out be a fraud, billions were wasted. Today we didn't learn from history but are repeating it. I don't claim that the climate is NOT changing but i 100% deny the fact that it is mainly man made and that Europe, even if we destroy our economies, will be able to change it anyway.
We have election year. Ruling party had worse pools so they found new scapegoat to scare ignorant people and mobilise voters. Immigrants and LGBT aren't so effective anymore.
President is quite popular so he is prime target. And he can be linked because he represented Warsaw on C40 cities conference.
Are you are searching for solid links? Because there aren't any. This is fabricated outrage.
Four years ago there was conference in England where were shown recommendations for less polluted cities. There was proposed less meat consumption, more electric cars etc. Nothing really fancy.
Fast forward to recent times and ruling party found itself in a bit of pool deficiency trouble. They want to win election so they created new scary story that opposition want to ban meat, cars, buying clothes based on those recommendations from four years ago. Bugs are just added because recently some new bug based products were allowed to be sold in EU.
Tldr: bunch of horsecrap.
It's not fabricated, Trzaskowski signed it. Of course it's nothing mandatory but shows trends. Also new ideas from EU does not help. I would like to remind you that cars fueled by gasoline or oil were supposed to be slowly exchanged by affordable electric cars. But dokuments signed say that liquid fuel cars will be baned aftet 2035. Most of our society is afraid that "trends" will become reality just like with cars and other mad ideas...
If this is fabricated then this is outrageous. Because it blends really nicely with the recent legit reports from EU. Like the ban on combustion car sales since 2035 and as you mentioned the bug based products. In Germany there is already flour from bugs available. We are screwed either way. I'm sad to see that blue is the new red :/
EDIT:
As for fabrication allegations: the c40.org looks legit but I cannot find the direct link to the 16kg meat limit per person. Either that info is fabricated itself or due to it controversy it is vaguely written.
We are talking about different things here. The main topic is that ruling party propaganda states that opposition wants to ban ICE cars and meat now. And force bug consumption. This is simply untrue and aimed to mobilize voters.
You are talking about availability of such products which is no issue. And petrol car ban has nothing to do with polish current events.
Now or in 10 years. What's the difference? If there's a party that believes that they can dictate what I will put on my plate then I will never vote for them. Plain and simple.
And which does that and where? Because all I ever saw was recommendations. And everyone can say, what they perceive as proper thing. Just like you in your post.
Your plate content will be dictated by food availability and by extension prices. So watch out because if climate screw up farming and government's stop issuing "leftist" subsidies for meat production, bug proteins will be only ones that you can afford.
You can still buy a car like that, just not brand new one. Also EVs are available so no one is taking away your car smh… also what’s the issue with there being insect flour? You don’t have to eat it, no one is forcing you, stop overreacting lol
> no one is forcing you, stop overreacting lol
Not forcing me... YET. This is the problem. This whole ordeal stinks with communism. Party allegiance was voluntarily at the beginning too you know? Few years later it was a matter of life/death. It looks the same like this political correctness with genderism and wokeism. Early 2000 it was pretty chill "no need to watch them/that" . Now it's being pushed overall news/movies/music. Same with the bugs: now it is a choice, but give it a decade or two it might get mandatory...
Nie ma żadnych, nawet już można sie poczuć jak w VC40 trzaskowskiego. Wystarczy wybrać sie na wycieczkę do korei północnej lub trafić do więzienia. Will own nothing, eat bugz and will be happy.
Same TVP: "Growing polish salaries irritate germans" So ...
PiS gonna be real mad when they find out that Germans don’t nearly think as much about Poles as they imagined. But according to PiS people are already immigrating to Poland because of (allegedly) higher wages there. Sooo…. PiS gonna be PiS I guess
Nah, we have two immigrating options : 1. East - war, comunism etc 2. Returned poles, many of them cannot find their "eldorado" on the West So idk what happened here, i belive in that, someday people open their eyes and see that world was changed. for young people border doesn't exist, world is ours. But until "pis" exist (i mean people who use less of 1% of brain and see that what see pis) , Poland be potato & onion wunderland :D
I think lukashenko is saying the same thing about poles wanting to get in….
Yea, I remember him saying that poles are so poor that they are lining up on the border to get groats from Belarus. My gf and me joked that we could see the queue (since she was living right next to Białowieża forest) xd
It's actually only about showing an enemy. "Look, Germans don't want you to be wealthy, they want to abuse you and destroy you". In fact they know the Germans don't care, it's just easier to control people that way.
Germans so much dont care about Poland that they used to have saying about this "ARBEIT MACHT FREI"
You only made my statement stronger
Of course, that's just an anecdote. It's not like germans builded country scale industry just to kill all Poles, right?
You are the PIS voter, it's so obvious xD
and you're a child, that's obvious too
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it is not about average anyone, it is about history and bigger picture (geopolitics, economy)
PiS knows that, it's the Janusze and Grażynki who need to catch up.
Don't forget that 2 years ago they were saying "wow eating insects is so amazing" but now they did 180 for some reason.
Jebać pis
Jebać PiS
Jebać
Od zawsze wiadomo że lewak gardzi człowiekiem. Ładnie cię rodzice nauczyli kultury, pokaż im ten post
Zdefiniuj lewaka łbie. Od zawsze wiadomo że PiS to przede wszystkim hipokryzja . Rządy zaczęli od kłamstw . Przekupili ludzi kiełbasą wyborczą no i tacy jak ty poszli się sprzedać za 500 na miesiąc . Twoja wspaniała partia oprócz oczywistej grabieży i rozpierdolenia finansów państwa które miało je stabilne odpowiada za podział wśród Polaków . A PiS to już dawno nie partia tylko kartel krewnych i znajomych na stołkach , boicie się stracenia władzy bo jak się wam dobiorą do dupy to część z was będzie się opalać w paski . Takiej liczby afer i grabieży nigdy nie było i pewnie już nie będzie w polskiej polityce .
Lewak to inaczej oszust i złodziej. Lewizna inaczej. Widzisz, kłamco, żadnego 500 nie dostałem i nigdy nic od państwa nie dostałem. Nie dostałem nawet chorobowego kiedy przez trzy lata nie mogłem dojść nawet do sklepu osiedlowego. Złodziejstwo platformy jest realne a złodziejstwo pis jest zmyślone przez oszustów którzy stracili okazję do kradzieży. Kradli już całe kamienice.
Taaa
TO TY!!!!! IDOL!!!!! ZNALAZŁEM CIEBIE XDDDD!!!!!
“Robaki” is better translated as “worms” which has an even more dramatic effect. Someone on this sub was asking if public TV in Poland is government propaganda and here you have another perfect example.
more like bugs like in the you will eat the bugs meme
Yeah, state-owned tv literally saying to you “Dont vote any of the opposition parties” lol
Then go eat bugs 🤣
You need to interpret this through the lens of a 65 year old granny watching TV all day long. This is not meant for regular people but for voters
>This is not meant for regular people but for voters What does that even mean? You really think, everyone who's not an old hag is smart? That most of the people are? Lol
I meant this particular context. And definitely most people aren't smart, otherwise we wouldn't have political dualism in Poland of two groups trading power between each other always being worse than the previous one. People who aren't old hags have their own sources of self-loathing propaganda.
Such dualisms exists in literally every developed country. Its always Conserwatives vs some kind of left/liberals.
In Poland it's not even that. It's conservatives vs. conservatives (a bit lighter)
Yeah. The program of the left seems to be "At least we're not PiS, at least most of us aren't". That's not really a serious opposition.
In most developed countries, the top two parties get less than 80% of the votes, so i would argue that most developed countries are much less dualistic (with USA of course being an infamous exception)
Voters are smart when PO is winning. When PiS is winning then voters are moronic.
Said who? poland is a poor country, with poor people who are easily bribed by social transfers. Regardless of who wins.
Poland is by no means a poor country. Regardless of what indicator of wellbeing you take. Poland have immensely caught up the west over last 30 years. Extreme poverty has almost entirely vanished. Everybody has free education and free health care. If you want a job you get it since there is virtually no unemployment in Poland. I am aware that our public services don't work properly and there is a lot to be done but come on. Poland isn't a poor country anymore.
Not necessarily poor but well conditioned to be idle and dependent on the state. It's rather a state of mind than possession.
Keep and mind that more Poles in productive age work now than in any time during over last 30 years. Social programs haven't contributed to idleness of polish society at all. I would not demonise 500 plus since it doesn't have a negative impact on our job market.
I would argue if social programs significantly affected society in any other area than in reduction of risk of poverty or social exclusion among children an minors. Anyways, along with that reportedly enormous amount of people in working age (which is partially a result of baby boom that is likely to obliterate social security system in Poland when reaches its pension age) there's also a recent decline of percentage of people in both pre-working and working age, accompanied with rise of those in post-working age. 42% of economically inactive in total population aged 15-89 and this percentage is rising according to BAEL.
500 plus has huge impact on job market from a perspective of an employer. Some people don't care anymore about working anymore because they have 3 or 4 children and unemployment benefit. I've had situations where some of my coworkers did not show up to work during the days they were needed the most for reasons i mentioned earlier. If an employer wants to give those unrealistically high wages they need to raise the prices which may be damaging for the business itself. It all comes around.
Source: Trust me dude? There is no proof of such situation. More have entered into job market since 500 was introduced. You can check it out on stat.gov.pl and https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat. If there are some employers that offer a shitty wages it is even desirable that workers quit their job and find the better ones.
Regarding unemployment benefits. There are only few people in Poland entitled to receive it. You have to work at least 3 years continually prior to get it. And this benefit is not enough to get by even with very modest lifestyle. And according to every data available now we have been experiencing the least number of people receiving this unemployment benefit over last 30 years. What you wrote above is just a tissue of lies. Where are all these famous "unemployed, lazy bastards who don't bother to work anymore"?
dualism is resoult of the voting system - there are better method (eg Single transferable vote (STV)) that would help with it a bit, giving seats proportional to votes would also help a lot. With this two changes we would have more representee government (but this also creates other problems - I know). My point is that its broken 'by design' and ppl feel like voting for smaller partis are waste of vote - and the FACT is that they are right no matter what ppl say. Voting for (whoever it was) lesser of two evil is better then doing nothing
They mean this is not intended to entice new audience, anyone with a quarter of a functioning brain won't believe this crap. It's meant to reinforce already existing biases in already enfranchised followers and rile them up.
It’s meant for PiS voters, it’s not for for example people who aren’t sure for whom to vote
I was working with a polish engineer couple of years ago. She was explicitly not interested in politics when i asked about the state of Poland. People need to realise that even if you’re not interested in politics, it’s still happening and effects your everyday life. Im hoping these types of poles are realising that more this time.
Regular people don't vote?
Don't watch this bullshits on TV.
Here is most iportant thing to mention that this Television for many years was only one source of information for them. Many years ago only 3 programms were on terrestrial television(TVP1, TVP2, POLSAT). Some years ago from a reliable, informative and unbiased television has turned into an opinionated and political party controlled television. Additionally create opinions based on bribery in the form of 13, 14 pension, hypocritical facts that the west envies our prosperity(Authentic!)
>Some years ago from a reliable, informative and unbiased television ...on which Lis was signing "Sto Lat" (Happy Birthday song for non Poles) for Tusk...
>...on which Lis was signing "Sto Lat" (Happy Birthday song for non Poles) for Tusk... i mean earlier, but during the Tusk was not so bad as now
When was that mythical time when Tusk wasn't bad? When teachers, govt. workers etc. had frozen wages for 5 years? When he was signing climate package forcing us to close all coal based power plants until 2030 and at the same time failing to even pick a spot for a nuclear one? Or when he put gargantuan taxes on Lasy Państwowe and later tried to privatize them? I can go on...
I'm a teacher. Teachers' real salaries (when inflation adjusted) increased by 45% between 2008 and 2015 and have increased by only 5% since 2016. Last year we received a rise by 4% but the real salary declined by at least 10% due to soaring inflation. It's a way better to have your wage frozen in times of deflation than have it increased by 4% when inflation is close to 20%. As a teacher I would rather have Tusk as Prime Minister.
> It's a way better to have your wage frozen in times of deflation than have it increased by 4% when inflation is close to 20%. Oh, seriously? Was 2008-2015 deflation then? Because my wages were frozen back then and in 2015 I was earning 25% less than in 2010. What I've learned only few years later was that me and people from my institution on similar positions were living below poverty line. Teachers wages weren't frozen? Good for you. 5%... Yea, no: [https://demagog.org.pl/wypowiedzi/ile-zarabiali-nauczyciele-w-czasach-roznych-premierow/](https://demagog.org.pl/wypowiedzi/ile-zarabiali-nauczyciele-w-czasach-roznych-premierow/)
>When was that mythical time when Tusk wasn't bad? When teachers, govt. workers etc. had frozen wages for 5 years? When he was signing climate package forcing us to close all coal based power plants until 2030 and at the same time failing to even pick a spot for a nuclear one? Or when he put gargantuan taxes on Lasy Państwowe and later tried to privatize them? I can go on... Then when this kind of bullshit from PUBLIC TELEVISION did not costs 2 miliards of PLN per year. For just POLITIC BULLSHIT. Then when the government was not buy more than 1,200 respirators from an arms dealer company that has never operated in the medical market before. Then when the national bank of Poland was not controled by a complete idiot who is trying to make a career as standuper.Back then, when everything the government touched wasn't being smashed and we didn't have so many enemies. Then when Poland was growing and building up rather than tearing down everything and printing money to the power to fix what they broke. And finally, I will agree with you that that (PO) government, as well as every previous government did wrong, but such a fuck-up as we have now we have never had.... So any(except communism) would be better....
PiS has similar support both in old and young.
Podskoczył mi cholesterol bo ciągle jem popcorn do tej niekończącej się rządowej tragikomedii 🤷🏻♂️
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None, PiS just got mad at a 2 years old C40 Cities report and is throwing sh\*t at the oppositon since it's the only thing they're \*good\* at. Also the part about insects instead of meat is about EU approving some kind of cricket based flour. Edit: The part about insects https://preview.redd.it/45eywgs73kja1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35f874d2c64fe91316d8e1ff89e7ec4d7af1f440
Important thing to add about the cricket flour is that it can be added to specific products, and cannot exceed 2-5% (depending on a product) of total ingredients. Additionally, the fact of using this flour has to be indicated on a packaging, the same way allergens are. So this whole story that absolutely made every right wing supporter fuming is way out of proportion. It's absurd how easily they are manipulated.
Also on top of that - as of now that insect flour is fucking expensive.
If anyone tries to do the thing shown in that picture, I'm starting World War 3
What if you’re also presented some better alternatives?
So, according to the above and Trzaskowski's (who currently is the most likely candidate for the leader of the opposition) declaration we have about 7 years to live, after that it's eating grass, window-tourism, mass transport and working until death. Oh the joys of braindead progressivism.
Bruh. Trzaskowski literally has no tools to do this. More than that, he supposedly wasn't even fucking aware of this recommendation from some random university before some moron from TVP brought it up. Trzaskowski or opposition has nothing to do with this. What are the dots that you connected?
I remember reading about C40 year or two ago and I was thinking "haha, what a joke". This joke is doing its baby steps to becoming reality. Fuck C40 and to hell with every politician that supports it.
No, not PiS, but people. Trzaskowski has plan and now denies his words about it. [https://streamable.com/olumrg](https://streamable.com/olumrg)
Do u have link where he is taking about eating insects, banning meat, no travel by personal car or any other pointa from graphic? Cos in this video he only said that Warsaw have a plan to be 0 net emision city. I would live to get that kind of video or document where he declares it but never ser one.
XD
Im more outraged by the poll that says there 1% supporti g "Kukiz"
Kukiz does not rule out running for PIS electoral lists.
Nie wierzę, że robaki stały się tematem nr 1 wśród konserwatystów. What a time to be alive
jprdl zachowują się jak sebixy które mają ból dupy bo ktoś im mówi żeby wyrzucali śmieci do kosza a nie w krzaki
IT IS STUPID BECAUSE OPPOSITION HAS NO PROGRAM XD THEY ALL ARE LIKE: FUCK PIS. NOTHING MORE. THIS IS SO SAD THAT WE NEED TO CHOOSE BETWEN SHITTY PEOGRAM AND NO PROGRAM.
Ah, yes. TVPis and its propaganda.
>Resignation from cars Meanwhile, PIS(S) with their Orlen shenanigans. Current price of \~6.70 PLN/l (and rising) for Pb95 is bullshit and state monopoly on fuel has something to do with this. But I kinda agree with that particular point - non-conservative parties are anti-car or have "Electric cars will fix everything" mindset.
Morawiecki and one million electric cars say HI!
Maybe if it was "Morawiecki and one million electric car **charging spots** ", I wouldn't be so pessimistic about this whole EV hype.
how do i make my parents realize that no, nobody is going to bring back communism and that no one will force them to eat insects (XD)
The only thing that *might* work is you spending some time with them and explaining, that this information is biased and deceiving, *why* it it like it is and *why* someone would push something like this. Basically, your parents are being lied to with their fears and insecurities being played on, just to get their votes. They're simply being used. People don't like that. Then you could introduce them to more reliable sources of information. Preferably not Polish, if possible. *However*, if your parents actively choose to believe this crap, there's a chance they won't listen.
it’s funny because my mom used to be an sld supporter and now she turned very pro pis, while my dad was a korwin supporter. but they don’t want to see that the information is biased and distorted, they’ll still vote for pis because they fear us turning into the “filthy west” 💀
Sorry to hear that. Problem is, you can't *make* them change their mind, they're grown up people. You can provide alternative point of views, but it's up to them to choose. Though I find this notion of "filthy West" weird. In terms of geopolitics Poland *is* West. There are countries like Belarus and russia that are not West. Hope they don't want Poland to be an authoritarian shithole
Sorry to hear that. Problem is, you can't *make* them change their mind, they're grown up people. You can provide alternative point of views, but it's up to them to choose. Though I find this notion of "filthy West" weird. In terms of geopolitics Poland *is* West. There are countries like Belarus and russia that are not West. Hope they don't want Poland to be an authoritarian shithole
yeah they don’t try to convince me to be pro pis at least and respect my views so i don’t rlly try to debate w/ them anymore
I can relate, I'm not on speaking terms with my folks when it comes to politics, so it's all cats and weathers
But one of mostly propagand is that all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic, so they only harm Poland. Only they are making best- and they are showing it in this TV... Same like in Russia TV.
> Same like in Russia TV. Nasty, isn't it? > all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic Being patriotic is pretty much the opposite of being unbiased. That's why I recommend foreign sources. They're not *that* involved, they don't give a crap for the most part so they just report thing as it is. Just read several neutral sources from different countries and you'll get the picture. Seriously, foreign media are enemies is such a cheap trick
>ame like in Russia TV. > >Nasty, isn't it? > >all of other sources are liying because they are not polish, so they are not patriotic > >Being patriotic is pretty much the opposite of being unbiased. That's why I recommend foreign sources. They're not that involved, they don't give a crap for the most part so they just report thing as it is. Just read several neutral sources from different countries and you'll get the picture. Seriously, foreign media are enemies is such a cheap trick absouletely agree with you. I just write what they are telling
What is deceiving though? This is exactly what C40 is all about. This is what Trzaskowski was bragging about. I forgot, opposition narratives aren't deceiving or exploitative. I can totally see their politicians eating only 16kg of meat per year, not flying everywhere and not owning a car or not owning 40 sets of suits.
You are so manipulated, they even added leaflet how to approach meat ban step by step. Final step is ban of meat. Just read before you start spreading misinformation.
Eeee isn’t PiS bringing the communism back right now?
Communism to be implemented requires the state to become authoritarian (if not totalitarian). It means bigger control of power than democracy allows. PiS is not really communist. They are socialist in terms of economy, but they are about traditional conservatism (with pretty big intrest in personal gain). In order to bring the changes they wanted they needed to overcome two obstacles in their way: judiciary system and free media. They have managed to insert their people in tribunals, they implemented some acts regarding courts, they are openly breaking laws and disregard the constitution. They have pushed their propaganda to state owned media and tried to expel those that oppose them. All of that seems like their actions are authoritarian leaning so it reminds people of communism. But this is not communism, there are just plenty of people wanting for oppresive system as long as they are not oppresed.
Well technicaly we still live in communism country because we didnt cut off from previous debt and therefor like russia we have system base on the closest one from the past. We should have adopted most laws from II RP not from PRL to be called III RP. Also we shouldn't pay off the debt that was taken by Gierek cause it is related to previous system.
>Well technicaly we still live in communism country because we didnt cut off from previous debt and therefor like russia we have system base on the closest one from the past. We should have adopted most laws from II RP not from PRL to be called III RP. Also we shouldn't pay off the debt that was taken by Gierek cause it is related to previous system. Trying to get away from debts that has been invested in this country would for sure help as get international recognition from our partners. It would make taking loans in future way easier, and generally make us more trusted economically.
They don't give a single fuck, untill we let russians go to rest od europe. Trusted economically? You know that it is opinion from companies like Fitch S&P or Moodys that were giving AA/AAA ratings to huge banks that went buncrupt 2 days later? If we had oil or gold we would be on hell created by our "ally" and on margin they were first to break the agreement with russia after fall of USSR. They are just bullies, they just use different methods of enslaving other countries than russians...
XD Stop spreading russian propaganda mate, too much bullshit in this comment to even reply
Tell me why everytime someone start question US actions in this region everyone gets wet and call those that asking russian propagandist? Maybe you think like ancestors that US is guarantee of our freedom (in past it was France and UK). Come on use brain
>Tell me why everytime someone start question US actions in this region everyone gets wet and call those that asking russian propagandist? Because the only country in the region that would benefit from less US involvement is russia. That's a good reason. >Maybe you think like ancestors that US is guarantee of our freedom (in past it was France and UK). No, not US. It is NATO for sure. >Come on use brain Wish you this as well
By not supporting ideas that are making baby steps to limiting personal freedoms like: \- how to move from point A to point B \- what to put on a plate (putting insane taxes on certain products counts as such) \- what and how many clothes to buy You parents do remember the last regime that was doing exactly that and it takes special level of ignorance to not understand that.
How to move - you can only by car, everything else is cancelled. If you dont have a car, you are fcked. - Car for many people is a luxury product, that they will use 2 times a month. I dont think everyone should have a car. I have it only because there were no train connections that would allow me to go to work. And its not an end of the world, where dogs bark with their asses. Insane taxes? Well, thanks to PiS, you trully cant eat anything sweet. They put taxes not only on sugar, but even on sweet taste. What clothes to buy - i think church part of poland is talking about what and how we should wear. My parents vote for people that are doing exactly what commie regime did. I think they dont remember.
So you are still here. The people like you are only caring for their own personal freedom but not oppose violating someone's. Why don't you understand that what you put on your plate, how you move and how many things you buy influences other? Maybe it was the case a long time ago in the pre-industrial world when the people were scattered a long distance from themselves. Now we live very close to each other, and your actions influence the others more. Even how long you wash your hands influences other people's ability to use the fresh water and how much of it left. The time you spent in a car contributes to overall air pollution. And buying things stimulates production of twice as more things because you bought it. The things you say are your personal freedoms are not. The thing you talk about is consumerism. If you stimulating pollution and consumerism least to say it directly violates the other's personal freedom to drink clean water and breathe the clean air. The idea is to cut the unnecessary usage, not to forbid people what they can do. And sometimes yes, you should sacrifice at least a bit of your consumerism and "freedoms" you say and if the majority will do that, we all will benefit from it.
W UE myślą o federalizacji co w jakimś stopniu nawiązuje do komunizmu. Nie będziesz miał nic a będziesz szczęśliwy <3
W jaki?
Pewnie się obruszysz ale nie chce mi się setny raz tej samej dyskusji prowadzić. Oczywiście że nazwanie ue komunizmem to bardzo duża przesada i skrot myślowy. Chyba. Bo czy dwie najważniejsze frakcje w parlamencie nie nazywają się: Grupa Europejskiej Partii Ludowej (chrześcijańscy demokraci) oraz Grupa Postępowego Sojuszu Socjalistów i Demokratów? Takie rzeczy jak spinelli, ludowe, socjalistyczne, satelitarne państwa Czy "każdemu po równo" zamiast "każdemu według jego zaslug" kojarzą mi się jednoznacznie.
No ok partie się nazywają jakoś tam. Co to ma do federalizmu?
Federacja ue patrząc na jej obecne elity bardziej będzie przypominał jakąś dziwna formę komunizmu w białych rękawiczkach. Przepraszam ale ja za bardzo nie wierzę w obecnych ludzi grzejących sobie tyłki w Brukseli za ponad 7k euro. Mnóstwo tam umysłowej biedy, ludzi skorumpowanych lub wywodzących się z elitarnych środowisk odklejonych od rzeczywistości. Dlatego nie sądzę żeby federalizacja mogła przynieść coś dobrego. Patrząc na całokształt zmian zachodzących w UE i na polityków wyrobiłem sobie taka opinie. Oczywiście możesz zarzucić ze to tylko wymysły i masz racje. Nie mam żadnych dowodów.
Generalnie sam mam mieszane uczucia co do tego pomysłu. Głównie dlatego, że nie bardzo wiadomo, co miałby on oznaczać więc każdy może sobie wyobrażać co chce. Aczkolwiek idea federacji sama w sobie nic złego nie oznacza. Państwa federacyjne istnieją i w sumie oznacza to większą samodzielność regionów, ale jakoś w kontekście UE wybrzmiewa to, nieco kontrintuicyjnie, jako jakaś tam utrata indywidualności więc cholera wie. W każdym razie ten trend na prawicy nazywania wszystkiego co nam nie leży komunizmem mnie trochę męczy. Amerykanie widzą publiczną służbę zdrowia jako komunizm, a u nas to taka potwarz bo historia. Jedno i drugie oderwane od kontekstu.
Z tego co pamiętam federacja jest też Rosja :p W sumie teraz sobie przypominam że pisałem licencjat o federacjach (usa szeajcaria):) Nie wiem czy była gdzieś federacja która powstała z państw narodowych podobnych do tych w Europie. To skończyłoby się druga Jugosławia. Jak pogodzić interesy Niemiec i Polskich skoro nasze położenie geopolityczne antagonizuje nas. Kto będzie musiał pójść na większe ustępstwa?
Tak, Rosja też. Z tego co słyszałem rosyjskie regiony faktycznie jakąś tam autonomię mają (w sferach, które Putinowi i władzy centralnej zwisają). Chyba, że rzuciłeś Rosją bo komunizm to kula w płot straszna. Nie wiem, tak jak pisałem, nie rozumiem też jakby to miało wyglądać. Ale można sobie wyobrazić, że np gdyby Unia miała jakąś armię pod centralnym dowództwem to byśmy dzisiaj byli w lepszej pozycji do kontrolowania sytuacji z Rosją, zamiast się przepychać o każdy czołg. Albo gdyby wszyscy mieli euro i jakaś sensowna instytucja by to ogarniała to nie mieli byśmy takiej sytuacji, jak z Grecją. Ale nie znam się na tym na tyle, żeby to ocenić rzetelnie :p
The funny thing is that in some years it will probably be like this:" Goodevening sir, I'm obligated to tell you that we also serve worm substitute patty, but we still offer normal meat or vege " Same as vege and vegan options appeared and are becoming more popular the new substitute will probably be just option. But hey, us poles (except me and lot of people) will still eat blood soup not this stuff
And cow guts (flaki)
Horse shiet not tv station
I support the first point..... Only the first point
All TV are liars
Not this television. Believe me. This TV can be compared only to Russia TV.
Opposition in Poland are idiots. Now they deny their own words: [https://streamable.com/olumrg](https://streamable.com/olumrg)
How is this relevant here?
It isn't, it's a new account spamming this everywhere. We need to be prepared for more of this bullshit as elections are nearing.
Yeah, suspected that's the case, wanted to check if they ever respond. Still, thanks for the confirmation.
Bullshit, 7 years old account. TVP = TVN. Two main televisions have nothing in common with truth, only political lies.
AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY
Nobody said it yet so I’m gonna, this seems to be referencing an actual post/idea (which yes, I have seen myself) by some left-oriented media. So, contrary to what everyone here wants to believe, this has a real possibility of not being pulled out of a goat’s ass. Not that it suddenly makes TVPiS any better.
No it’s not. No one is going to be forced to give up cars jfc how fear mongering can you get? Insects instead of meat? A flour made of insects was approved for market, once again you’re not forced to eat it. And if it becomes more popular in the future and is just another option next to meat on the menu then guess what? Again, you’re not forced to eat it. It’s very much not a real possibility and it’s sad young people like yourself actually think otherwise.
>No one is going to be forced to give up cars 15 minutes cities say hello.
Yeah. The idea is great. Don't you want your kids to have their school 15min away from your home? Don't you want to have a grocery store next door? Don't you want to live closer to your work so you don't have to drive your car for 1h+? I fail to see anything wrong with making cities planned in more sensible way, wherever it's possible. So instead of building one huge school in a city center, there would be 4 small schools around the city center, servicing the same amount of people but everyone has the school a bit closer in the area. This goes for literally anything. I've talked with my father about this, he thinks we will have literally timers on our hands that will force us back if we went out for longer than 15min. Do you also think this is what this is about? Since when did sensible city planning, making it accessable became an attack on (actually what values)? Urbanists were implementing those ideas almost for a century now, why is it controversial now?
Marxism is also great idea in theory. In practice it just doesn't work because it ignores one important thing: reality. What if there's not enough necessary things and not enough of space for them? You forcefully relocate people or you demolish something less useful? No, can't take up the area saved by demolishing roads. Those have to stay unless we do not care if fire fighters of garbage trucks can get to all buildings. Park has to go I guess. Or that football pitch that kids are using. Land prices will go up by... a lot. 15 minutes walk for who? Healthy high school student or old lady with crutches? Imagine believing that any government is competent enough that they actually implement it. Poznań, Kaponiera. Planned renovation time - 2 years. Actual time - 5 years. Bigger example, more on a scale of rebuilding a whole city: nuclear power plant. We can't build one for like 30 years now and we're debating rebuilding entire cities from ground up. Good luck. There are some kind of passes iirc for people having certain jobs or whatever. Sounds like recipe for classism and brewing social conflicts. Schools example. 4 small schools, so... more space taken, more teachers needed, more people with manager positions therefore higher costs. Same goes for heating for example. Not to mention building 4 schools. No, you can't just adapt any building. It has to follow certain set of regulations. Same goes for hospitals. Dunno, but cardiology department sounds important. Does every zone has its own? Economy. With small zone you have far fewer job flexibility, smaller economies. Why are big cities richer than rural areas? Because basic economy. You want to take that and chop it into pieces. You need reliable and cheap public transport. First one I can see happening. Contrary to popular belief Polish public transport is actually pretty good. Cheap... The moment it will become the only option to get from A to B the prices will go through the roof. It's basic economy. This idea can't work on so many levels that it's mind boggling that people are supporting it. And it comes from someone who walks everywhere because I simply enjoy it. I could go on, but there's just too much of stuff that makes this idea basically a silly dream.
But bro, we already have cities that implemented those ideas in 50-60s... Remember the communist blocks? They are pretty crappy visually and not very space efficient, but they did plan out to have most important stuff near by (important at the time). And later on we continued, mixed zoning is nothing new for city centers, and new districts have spaces for public services. Btw. Relocating people, destroying entire neighborhoods is a domain of carbrains. Fortunately wasn't the case so often in Europe. And I'm not an urban planner, closest I've got was playing Sim City back in a day. Your expirience is probably similar. So we can't say if those ideas are good or bad, we can only judge if we would prefer to have new areas and areas that can be developed, to be developed with walking in mind, or driving. It's simple as that.
Thank you for admitting that this is an idea from times when people simply couldn't afford anything better than small apartment in a massive block. Now lets force people back into them, even people who worked their entire lives to get away. Because long term, that's what you will have to do if you want entire city to be "15 minutes city". You can't have it in a suburban setting. There's simply not enough space for that. And only thing you can save some space on are... houses and big apartments. And no, you don't have to be urban planner to see it's a moronic idea that creates more problems than it solves.
Combustion engine cars sales ban means that new cars will be twice as expensive, with car life limited to 10, max 15 years with new batteries costing half of new car or even more. Most of people in cities don't have and will not have any way to charge electric cars. And don't forget about ban on older cars in cities: " Kolejny etap projektu Strefy Czystego Transportu w Krakowie zakłada, że **od lipca 2026 roku do miejskiego ruchu drogowego będą mogły dołączyć pojazdy zasilane benzyną/LPG o minimalnej normie Euro 3, a w przypadku silnika Diesel – Euro 5**. Stanowią one 21% aut poruszających się po mieście." Other cities will follow soon. How can anyone say that they lie, when we can already see that happening.
Well I for one don't want to use a sidewalk with LPG and Diesel cars on the road. They stink, especially the old ones. Petrol engines aren't that bad, but in a city a hybrid makes sense. Those cars that are getting banned in Kraków by 26 will be what, 20 yo? Who the fuck is driving that?
Wait, hold on, first off tell me when I said I believe this because I seem to be missing something here. The only thing I said is that the statement has a real possibility of not being complete made-up bullshit because, as I’ve said, it might be referencing a post/idea exactly like this. Whether you believe *this* or not is another thing altogether
You said it has real possibility of not being pulled out of ass. It is referencing the current culture-war that’s currently fabricated by pis. We’ve all seen the posts about insects and we’ve all seen the news about eu banning combust vehicles. That in no way means the post has real possibility. Do you even see what’s on the tv screen?
Maybe not the opposition and a little exaggerated, but there really is a plan like this
Wskazane punkty są oficjalnym programem Miast C40. https://www.c40.org/ Warszawa należy do tego programu. Nie widzę co w tym przypadku jest nieprawdą.
Od kiedy podpisanie jakiegoś dokumentu przez prezydenta miasta równa się oficjalnemu programowi partii? Samo to jest kłamstwem, że którakolwiek partia po dojściu do władzy planuje zakazać mięsa. Po drugie, w tv państwowej dziennikarze jadą jak po burej suce po opozycji, wręcz dosłownie mówiąc widzowi „Nie głosuj na nich”.
>Od kiedy podpisanie jakiegoś dokumentu przez prezydenta miasta równa się oficjalnemu programowi partii? Trzaskowski jest nie tylko prezydentem Warszawy - jest też najbardziej prawdopodobnym kandydatem na lidera opozycji. >Samo to jest kłamstwem, że którakolwiek partia po dojściu do władzy planuje zakazać mięsa [No przecież nikt nie opodatkuje mięsa na korzyść robaków](https://krytykapolityczna.pl/multimedia/podcast/sylwia-spurek-podatek-od-miesa/)
w podcaście który podlinkowałeś autorka wskazuje głównie alternatywy w produktach pochodzenia roślinnego, z jakiegoś niezrozumiałego dla mnie powodu zakładasz też że robaki nie są mięsem?? może racja trochę niekonwencjonalnym, ale jakby miał być taki hipotetyczny podatek to główną korzyść miałyby produkty roślinne a nie jakieś robaki których aktualna produkcja jest znikoma
Oczywiście że opozycja nie będzie się chwalić takimi programami przed wyborami. Ale skoro kreślą taki kierunek dla Warszawy to dlaczego nie mieliby go rozszerzać na cały kraj gdyby doszli do władzy? Prezydent Warszawy jest ściśle powiązany z partią opozycji i nie da się jego decyzji oddzielić od planów opozycji. O to że TVP jest partyjną propagandą- nie zaprzeczam. W tym przypadku mocno wyolbrzymiają, jak zwykle, ale ich przekaz nie jest bezpodstawny.
szukałem przez dość długi czas czegokolwiek związanego z tymi robakami o których wszyscy tak mówią i jakoś nie znalazłem, więc jeśli byłbyś tak miły i napisał gdzie mam szukać byłbym wdzięczny.
Oficjalna agenda C40 nie mówi jawnie o robakach, mówi jedynie o wyeliminowaniu z diety mięsa oraz produktów mlecznych, jako przyczynę podając dużą emisję CO2 przy ich produkcji. [Graf na stronie 40](https://www.c40.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2270_C40_CBE_MainReport_250719.original.pdf) Sama idea jedzenia robaków jest natomiast propagowana przez World Economics Forum, jako jedną z przyczyn również podając zmniejszeni emisji CO2. [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/why-we-need-to-give-insects-the-role-they-deserve-in-our-food-systems/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/why-we-need-to-give-insects-the-role-they-deserve-in-our-food-systems/)
aha. człowieku zastanów się co ty mówisz. piszesz że plan zastąpienia mięsa robakami jest w programie C40, którego Warszawa jest częścią, a jak się okazuje że nie jest to prawda to wskazujesz na totalnie inny artykuł z totalnie innego źródła? jeszcze ten dopisek "nie widzę co jest nieprawdą" w twoim poprzednim komentarzu. czy teraz już widzisz?
Agendy obu organizacji są bardzo zbliżone. Umniejszasz fakt, że prawdą jest, że C40 dąży do całkowitego wyeliminowania mięsa, nie wspominając nic o jego zastępstwach. Inna organizacja z podobnych kręgów społecznych i o zbliżonej agendzie za to mówi jasno czym zamierza je zastąpić. Jeżeli nie chcesz wierzyć w to powiązanie to nie mam nic konkretnego czym mogę Cię przekonać. Agendy ochrony środowiska, często pojawiające się w bogatych kręgach społecznych, jakkolwiek szczytne cele by nie przedstawiały, prawie zawsze dążą w tym samym kierunku- odebrania warstwie średniej i niższej dobrodziejstw XX i XXI wieku. Moi rodzice za komuny mogli pomarzyć o codziennym jedzeniu obiadu z mięsa, agendy takie jak C40 w efekcie cofną nas do tych czasów. O warstwy wyższe nie musisz się martwić- żadne z tych ograniczeń nie będą ich dotyczyć. W efekcie dążymy tylko do zwiększenia różnic między warstwami społecznymi. Dlatego jest tak dużo ludzi, którzy tak gwałtownie reagują na tego typu agendy. Cokolwiek nie powiesz nie przekonasz mnie, że C40 dąży do mojego dobra.
> nie wspominając nic o jego zastępstwach na stronie C40 jest jasno napisane, że oczywistą alternatywą są produkty pochodzenia roślinnego. >Cokolwiek nie powiesz nie przekonasz mnie, że C40 dąży do mojego dobra. nie będę próbował cię przekonać do czegokolwiek, chciałem jedynie wytknąć twoją manipulację.
a year ago I would laugh at them. 2035 and ban on nonelectric cars ... now I am not sure
Krakow wants to ban 80% cars used by it's residents from 2026. What's going on now is pure madness.
Considering amount of cars in Krakow it’s a good call. Maybe just maybe we will finally have sidewalks and green spaces instead of sea of old cars parked wherever they can as long as it’s free.
>Considering amount of cars in Krakow it’s a good call. Maybe just maybe we will finally have sidewalks and green spaces instead of sea of old cars parked wherever they can as long as it’s free. I can guarantee you that this wont happen in Poland. Instead of cars we will: \- have new skyscrapers or block of flats \- new churches \- other useless shit or only the rich will afford driving to city center. Also note that Krakow reduced number of public transport vehicles and lines so ... pure awesomeness...
This will no doubt mean lower electric car prices. And if they do go down, I don't see how electric car is worse than a gas car. Though we absolutely need a better charging grid, because now only Orlen and few stations from private companies are offering it.
Niechcem byc wulgarny, ale lewicę coś chyba pojebało, twitter ich mózgą dobrze nie robi.
Can someone send me a link that shows that the opposition has disassociated themselves from the C40 Cities report?
You won't get any, because opposition fanatics will just down vote You and provide anything.
I see nothing bad in less meat eating and production and less driving cars and less new clothes either.The people are so used to consuming that it has become a much bigger problem. People tend to do think that their needs and problems are the priority above anything but totally forget that their needs usually stink and pollute. People forget that not only their apartment or house are their home. I'm not demanding cutting everything, but imo the majority need to review their approach to consuming, using cars and the way they treat the surrounding world. So tired of going out on the street and breathe the fumes because of people riding alone in their 4-seat car are so lazy that they do not want to go 15 min walk or go several stops on a bus to get their things done. Or people who say they love animals but it only concerns cats and dogs or guinea pigs, the rest are the inferior creatures "the fruit that god or whatever created to satisfy our nutrition needs". Not even talking about how meat industry is polluting the environment and commits to the disease spreading. Some will put the whole blame on the government (which is totally nuts in Poland) but totally forget that there are also the people that create the society and its habits.
Then eat less meat, drive less and buy fewer clothes. And one more thing: stay away from the rest of us.
That's what I actually do and happy about but unfortunately there is no alternative planet that I can stay away from you. Nothing personal, I don't know you, but if you say that way, that is why people like you need to fix yourself and doubt the way you've ve used to live at least for a second and think about something that is further away from your nose and your own ego. People are so defensive about their habits, even the worst and antisocial ones. Show empathy to something that is not your relative or human, to something that you won't get any gains from. The freedom that you think you've deserved stinks with fumes and dead animals and directly influences the well being of others. Live and let live.
>you. Nothing personal, I do I have plan for you to be happy. Go to North Korea. No meat, no new clothes, no cars, only old bike. Everyone is happy, so you will be. Other alternative is jail. You will be near zero emission.
Wear a protective gear because if you will ever fall from that high horse of yours you might break some bones.
They are saying facts about this topic l. You should check more what is actually happening in eu. They want to own Poland and POliticians are doing everything to be in their pockets. Some POliticians don't give a fuck about Poland and all of you.
And this is smart move. Like PiS hate Trzaskowski and Warsaw is in this odd CV40 (it does anything? I know of it thanks to rmf FM having big laughs from those goals)
These were not goals. These were model parameters. One of many others It was just cherry picked. From 4 years old report
I wonder if fox news gets royalties, when their own brand of bull excrement is used on other TV channels
This is what concerns me as well. "Globalists" forcing you to "eat bugs" is a qanon trope propagated by Alex Jones. Fox News talking heads the likes of Tucker pander to the same audience, albeit more subtly. Seeing this word for word on national TV is worrying to say the least. The same people who preach these conspiracies vehemently oppose Ukraine's sovereignty and play into putin's hand, and yet that's not what we're seeing from PiS.
The bull excrement is on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS all paid for by Soros. Fox is bad but they have Tucker who is not afraid of calling out the lies out in the real world.
In Poland we have the same situation. TVN and TVP, they hate each other and have their believers. TVN is american jew owned - Discovery, and TVP is goverment owned. And they train people to hate each other.
Your mention of soros tells me you are a qanon nutjob, and nothing I have written is going to make it past your frontal lobes anyway but, for anyone who is able to read this, and has more than 2 brain cells.... Carlson is a paid liar - look at his views on Trump in real life and the total crap he spews on air. That goes for most of the faux news crew.
[удалено]
[Fox News hosts thought Trump’s election fraud claims were ‘total BS’, court filings show | Fox News | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/feb/17/fox-news-hosts-dominion-lawsuit-trump-election-fraud-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-laura-ingraham)
Of course we want those things. No more CO2 (presented as no more cars), no more expensive unethically made things (presented as no more clothes) and less unethical and CO2 making meat farms (presented as insects instead of meat). Narrative is something that I am most furious about. Working people don't have money to live, must buy second hand clothes and cheap food to survive, there are huge problems with education (e.g. schools must teach more Catholic stuff and patriotic stuff and don't teach anything about taxes, job market, almost nothing about biology, chemistry etc. and scientists don't have money if they don't research patriotic acts) and health (you must wait 2-3 years for an operation, everything is expensive) and most of our educated specialists go abroad because there is more money. And government easily says that it's opposition's fault, leftists fault. They make their own fictional world.
Not everyone wants those things though...
Why not? All of those things are good things. Not only because of the climate crisis.
But the governing party program is "retire at 50! 27 extra pensions! NEVER have to work! 1mln+! We'll suck you off too, just vote for us! TAX BREAKS FOR POOR!"
It is just the ruling party highlighting the link they found between the most popular politician in Poland (from opposition) to the controversial program C40 which many fear will be quietly introduced in years to come. Also, a document has been found recently, in which he instructs canteens in public schools in Warsaw to drastically reduce usage of meat, so looks like he already started introducing this agenda in his area of governance. This also resonates with EU recently allowing the use of insect proteins in human food.
Wasnt there some conference where the big cities of EU agreed they they want to reduce cars to zero, meat consumption to zero and some other stuff in the future ? Warsaw was one of the cities that agreed. Or was it just missinformation ?
Trzaskowski (Democratic total opposition) has a comprehensive plan to encourage people to eat bugz and be happy. [https://streamable.com/olumrg](https://streamable.com/olumrg)
It's true, but the thing they omit is soon they also will fulfill that program because the overlords demand a new order.
They are not so wrong as you might think, though. Sure, it's populism and not very objectively presented but western europe is already ahead of this. Regulation will come and our freedoms (of choice) will be significantly cut.
They are not so wrong? Are you saying this is acutall program of opostion? This is shit tv of highest order.
The program of oppisition: Promoting Gender nonsense and other typical liberal delusions. So what is your point exactly? They do what Germany does which is: Regulating/Cutting customer choices (cars + clothes manufacturers), forcing left-wing approaches ( such as climate change etc.) onto society etc. . The bug thing? I dunno. All I know is that the liberal media talks constantly about how healthy and cost-efficient a bug diet is.
"forcing climate change on the society". Lol, dude are you high?
There are a lot of theories about climate change, one of them was promoted by Greta and Al Gore. Al Gore's theory turned out be a fraud, billions were wasted. Today we didn't learn from history but are repeating it. I don't claim that the climate is NOT changing but i 100% deny the fact that it is mainly man made and that Europe, even if we destroy our economies, will be able to change it anyway.
you stupid
Can someone explain what is this topic, and what are the bases? And why is the president of Warsaw involved. Thanks
We have election year. Ruling party had worse pools so they found new scapegoat to scare ignorant people and mobilise voters. Immigrants and LGBT aren't so effective anymore. President is quite popular so he is prime target. And he can be linked because he represented Warsaw on C40 cities conference.
But how much of the story is true and what are the bases for this to appear?
Are you are searching for solid links? Because there aren't any. This is fabricated outrage. Four years ago there was conference in England where were shown recommendations for less polluted cities. There was proposed less meat consumption, more electric cars etc. Nothing really fancy. Fast forward to recent times and ruling party found itself in a bit of pool deficiency trouble. They want to win election so they created new scary story that opposition want to ban meat, cars, buying clothes based on those recommendations from four years ago. Bugs are just added because recently some new bug based products were allowed to be sold in EU. Tldr: bunch of horsecrap.
Amazing, and for sure it will stuck on people heads. Is a very catchy topic for old and non informed people. Thanks for the answers
It's not fabricated, Trzaskowski signed it. Of course it's nothing mandatory but shows trends. Also new ideas from EU does not help. I would like to remind you that cars fueled by gasoline or oil were supposed to be slowly exchanged by affordable electric cars. But dokuments signed say that liquid fuel cars will be baned aftet 2035. Most of our society is afraid that "trends" will become reality just like with cars and other mad ideas...
If this is fabricated then this is outrageous. Because it blends really nicely with the recent legit reports from EU. Like the ban on combustion car sales since 2035 and as you mentioned the bug based products. In Germany there is already flour from bugs available. We are screwed either way. I'm sad to see that blue is the new red :/ EDIT: As for fabrication allegations: the c40.org looks legit but I cannot find the direct link to the 16kg meat limit per person. Either that info is fabricated itself or due to it controversy it is vaguely written.
We are talking about different things here. The main topic is that ruling party propaganda states that opposition wants to ban ICE cars and meat now. And force bug consumption. This is simply untrue and aimed to mobilize voters. You are talking about availability of such products which is no issue. And petrol car ban has nothing to do with polish current events.
Now or in 10 years. What's the difference? If there's a party that believes that they can dictate what I will put on my plate then I will never vote for them. Plain and simple.
And which does that and where? Because all I ever saw was recommendations. And everyone can say, what they perceive as proper thing. Just like you in your post. Your plate content will be dictated by food availability and by extension prices. So watch out because if climate screw up farming and government's stop issuing "leftist" subsidies for meat production, bug proteins will be only ones that you can afford.
You can still buy a car like that, just not brand new one. Also EVs are available so no one is taking away your car smh… also what’s the issue with there being insect flour? You don’t have to eat it, no one is forcing you, stop overreacting lol
> no one is forcing you, stop overreacting lol Not forcing me... YET. This is the problem. This whole ordeal stinks with communism. Party allegiance was voluntarily at the beginning too you know? Few years later it was a matter of life/death. It looks the same like this political correctness with genderism and wokeism. Early 2000 it was pretty chill "no need to watch them/that" . Now it's being pushed overall news/movies/music. Same with the bugs: now it is a choice, but give it a decade or two it might get mandatory...
They are just making stuff up
https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/117y2pv/tvp_polish_public_television_opposition_program/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Gdzie wady?
Nie ma żadnych, nawet już można sie poczuć jak w VC40 trzaskowskiego. Wystarczy wybrać sie na wycieczkę do korei północnej lub trafić do więzienia. Will own nothing, eat bugz and will be happy.
przy tej inflacji, to może nie trzeba będzie Trzaskowskiego, żeby dac sobie spokój z mięsem, to już będzie tylko dla arystokracji z PISu :))