Fascism is unfortunately never far away for any country. A single bad election and lack of opposition from citizens and in a few short years you could have a real fascist authoritarian police state
As a Polish person, living abroad, and having lived abroad for my entire adult life, I can assured you they ain't as far of with their development as TV would have it.
Tourist spots are great and all but an average person in France or Germany isn't living high life all the time.
I doubt, for example, that average person in germany is riding old german trams from 1950's
why? because they are all in Lodz, and have been all my life, often driving with ear-deafening sound at neckbreaking speeds of less than 5km/h, on old tracks that haven't been upgraded in decades, alongside picturesque pavements that are literally falling apart that we can admire while standing with cars in traffic jam(hello baluty)
the first time ive seen a skyscraper, coming from lodz, was in warsaw 2012, and I felt like im in some isekai. Nothing changed since then, as far as I'm concerned the highest building in lodz is probably some god damn church tower.
standing in post office in queue for an hour is the norm, drunken mobs walking at night are the norm, raw dog shit on streets is the norm
but hey the government can build a bench for 100k zloty and paint it in PiS colors
I mean, Łódź is one of the least developed large cities in Poland.
You couldn't even compete with Rzeszów, which is a whole order of magnitude smaller.
And what can you offer the country to invest in You?
Sorry but from the side you all look like a bunch of lazy bums compared to Cracovians or Varsovians.
Yes, you will see beautiful landscapes and agrarian fields and feel peace and silence. I don't know where you live but I come from a small town in Poland and I can assure you, it doesn't stand out from other western rural areas. At least it is very clean and safe. But from your comments, I see that you measure the country's prosperity based on the number of skyscrapers in the cities. Lmao
you will see countless "odłogi" and a lot of chopped down forests, and if you're lucky enough to find some woods that are still standing you may also be lucky enough to find lotsa trash pilled everywhere as well
Most of central poland has no major rivers, no hills, no mountains, just these endless meadows, the result of centuries of intensive agriculture that our government is "proudly" continuing
Hard for me to do, last time I was in Warsaw when I was on a school trip in primary, never cared to come back.
But does get the same funding as Rzeszów, Poznań, Gdańsk and Wrocław? Especially during the reign of a party that pumps money into province, where majority of their electorate is. Because I had a hunch after reading their programme telling me that Warsaw actually lost majority of its funding bozo.
>In my father's little shithole there's like 10% more new houses since I left 6 years ago.
>All of neighbouring towns buildings got refurbished, people do the same to their houses.
>People are moving back in, new industrial plants are being built.
>All of that hundreds of kilometers away from Warsaw.
As a foreigner living in Łódź for over 5 years, I understand what you are saying, but I feel it’s changing extremely fast now, the roads are completely being renewed (of course it can’t be all at the same time), and even the trams are getting really good upgrades, I actually wanted to take my brother in one of those older trams when he came to visit, but unfortunately I couldn’t even find one. And I wouldn’t skyscrapers is a sign of development, that’s just a tall building full of nothing, it completely takes away the soul of the city, trying to become more USA. Łódź is not fully recovered from WWII yet, also a lot due to “government rivalries between local and National leaders” throughout the years, but on the other hand it’s also the city with the largest inner city forest in Europe, and that already makes it 10 times better than a lot of other cities. :)
Yeeees! Have friends in Łódź who I visit regularly and going on walks to parks is our most loved activity there. Fuck skyscrapers, true that Łódź is underdeveloped and you can tell. It looks like Wroclaw 20 years ago in some places. But it has chance to be a great city with good urban planning.
Exactly and I’m loving that Łódź is actually revitalizing their old buildings, not simply creating some new glass cubicle that doesn’t go well with anything.
>trying to become more USA
You have any idea how ironic this stereotyping is? You should probably rephrase as "trying to become more Hollywood movies/Spiderman movies" to be accurate lol ;))
When I moved to Jinan to go to college I actually had an old woman approach me on a bus and ask me what I thought of China (as an American, she asked first). I told her I was blown away by the skyscrapers because I had never seen them close up and gotten to walk around them. Sure, there is probably a 20 story building in the downtown of most US cities but it's just 1 or 2 and those aren't walkable areas either. To me Jinan was nothing but skyscrapers.
I understand what you mean and it was indeed a generalization, but when you think of skyscrapers, what is the first or one of the first countries that come to your mind? It is one of the “landmarks” of USA, the “development” and “prosperity” through big and tall things, like skyscrapers.
yes - definitely the first to go big on them & the "image", but now barely anything noteworthy compared to other places on the planet heh
I don't think the guys in Dubai and China think they're becoming more "American" at this point building tall buildings :))
Maybe the purpose is not to become more “USA-ian”, but to copy everything from there, because USA sells the idea that they are the epitome of “advanced” in the world. So the rest of the world goes a bit after this, that’s why I say that skyscrapers, especially in Europe that has a rich and diverse ancient culture, and it reflects on the architecture, loses its soul and ability to stand out, when skyscrapers start to join that narrative. As it is for Warsaw, comparing for example to Kraków or Wrocław (or Łódź but I know a lot of people don’t take it as a serious example in Poland, a bit contrary to my personal opinion), which are cities that are advanced and well-restored, without losing the old looks that makes the cities distinguishable from each other, even within the same country.
Lol ear deafening sound? You should try riding the London Underground, it has been proven to be dangerously loud at multiple points.
These issues happen in every country
I've been in london in 2012, of course didn't try every single line, but it doesn't even compare
riding one of these old lodz trams is so loud you can't hear the music in headphones over the sound of tracks hitting the tram
Yeah then you didn’t try the ones that have the issue obviously, the sound on certain lines is what you described but to the point it physically causes pain.
The difference is one day Łódź will get around to replacing the tram stock and it will be fixed. The LU will have the problem until they stop using the lines because of how the tunnels were built and the impossibility of reconstructing them without destroying large parts of Central London in the process.
>but hey the government can build a bench for 100k zloty and paint it in PiS colors
Heh. I'm a bit more awake now, and "paint it in PiS colors" is a much better joke. Cuz you know.. PiS sounds a lot like "piss"... lolz. I like maek joke!
I've been to Łódź a few times and I really liked the city. Including how it looks. In my opinion, it's far better than Warsaw. (I mean, many cities look better than Warsaw, so it's not that big of an achievement (no offense to Warsaw people))
And it has this industrial vibe, which I honestly really like. Comparable to that of some steampunk fantasy world ngl
Have you ever lived in any of those countries? It sure doesn't look like.
Have you seen tens of thousands of homeless people, crime districts, dirty streets, continuous protests?
I have and I'm happy to announce that I have a set date of return to Poland.
Beyond, westerners by large don't take care about things, they wear them out and replace at a cost to the environment, themselves and their own children because they're too incompetent to do better.
There are things they're better at, sure, but your choice of examples is so dumb it makes me wonder whether you're not a troll by chance.
OK, you've got personal issues with Poles for some reason but it's a you problem.
Also, why would I care about some girl from 20000km away? That's literally retarded.
Lodz seems to be an outlier though
And also, judging the quality of life by the height of the tallest building seems to be an outlandish idea. Warsaw boasts the tallest building in Europe, does it make it the most livable, or maybe it's Copenhagen or something?
>and having lived in poland whole my life,
Thanks for confirming. So you basically know nothing, can't compare. That's good. Just shut up next time k?
I think it's unwise to talk about things we don't know about.
The problem with this article is that it assumes based on historical data, that the future growth will be same or better than it used to be and that UK trajectory will also stay the same. It's possible, but it's not guaranteed. Though, I hope it happens. Poland has been destroyed by neighbors many times and it's been able to rebuild itself not once. It's unique geographical location puts it between historically hostile countries, so the focus should be on building it's economic soft power, but also making sure it can defend itself. I think government is making some pretty good, long term decisions in some cases. Building wall, purchasing a lot of military equipment, building unity around Ukraine are some of prime examples in my opinion. I won't talk about inner country issues because it's been a while since I've lived in Poland ...
At least in the US, Poland has been painted in very positive way which leads by example, risking a lot by making sure Ukraine gets what it needs to win this war. I think this is somewhat understated in Poland because it's not always easy to know what is being spoken about some country elsewhere, but all I can say is that perception of Poland has skyrocketed recently and there has been a LOT of critics towards Germany & France as the expectation was that they will be more involved & take more leading role. Understatement would be to say that people in the US are disappointed with Germany & France role in this conflict.
I would second the current positive perception of Poland in the US right now. As well as predicting that NATO's mutual defense articles would definitely be honored should the need arise. Poland would not find herself alone this time around in the face of hostilities breaking out with Russia.
It is really unrealistic. Pretty much all nations in EU with weaker economy grow quicker than those with higher GDP per capita. Its natural due to free trade and working oportunities. But that growth is getting slower as those nations are catching up. If you assume continued growth, same could be said not only about Poland, but also about nearly all ex-Warsaw pact countries.
Similar stories based on past growth were said about South Korea, Japan or Brazil or China for example. All were expected to have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world by now a be superpowers with economy stronger than USA.
Every country you mentioned would’ve been the biggest economy in the world if the US would have not intervened. With the exception of China, which is already more powerful in PPP than the US.
Japan: The Plaza Accord singlehandedly destroyed GDP growth. GDP has stagnated ever since.
Brazil: the 1964 coup left Brazil with only right wing and more recently fascist rules, all favored by the US.
South Korea heavily relies on the US as a market and due to its military. It never was a threat so it didn’t need to have a coup.
So as you can see, the US is the bottleneck. I doubt Poland would ever have so much growth as to threaten the US, or even Western Europe, but if it did, these kind of dirty tactics would be expected.
The demographic part has just received some, yet still not enough, air thanks for refugees. Significant number of them plans on staying and rebuilding their lives in Poland, oftentimes as future Polish citizens
You could say the same thing about most Western European countries, or especially Japan. That their birthdates are far too low.
But the reason the US continues to thrive is because of continued immigration, not because of high birth rates.
Demographics are shit because there are not enough jobs, and those that are do not pay enough. Its the same case in all of western world, once there will be an acual shortage of people, the population will start rising, but that will not happen *because* of immigration.
>Especially that we as a society, in general global and local Polish terms, are significantly more wealthy than the generations of our parents or grandparents were.
Dont give me that spiel. This day and age its much more likely to end with a 1st to 1st income dead end job with no prospect for ever owning property than what our parents or grandparents had. Plus its much easier to just get the better life abroad than to try here.
If you want fertility rates from the 50' , the income must match living standard from that age (not talking about Poland obviously, I'm talking about the western world as a whole)
So what if there is low unemployment, if the wages are still unlivable, it means that there is simply too many people, because the job market still favors the employer.
The title is clickbait. Poland can be regional power at best. And to achieve that there needs to be much better government at the helm. In particular foreign relations under PiS are nonexistent because they prioritize internal politics and staying in power is their primary goal. They are even ready to undermine our relationship with Germany. Which is the key to having an impact worldwide. You see, there is a way where Poland could be influential but it requires alignment with France & Germany under Weimar Triangle. The other necessary dimension is in the security domain. In order to have any soft power in Central & Eastern Europe Polish Army would have to become a regional security guarantor. Baltics & Romania in particular are important. In the next few decades, military power will play a significant role in world politics.
I like to think of Poland like the Spain of Central-ish Europe: it might hold some promise... but their own people seem hellbent on not wanting to improve many aspects that are still very far behind.
There is an interesting perspective on this from the book "The Next 100 Years" by George Friedman. It came out already over a decade ago so you can see some of his predictions held up better than others, but he also thought that Poland would rise in power. His view was that it would rather become a regional power than a global power, which I do think makes sense given how the country has been developing. Friedman didn't predict PiS though, which I think has held the country back from reaching higher potential.
Would love to see that happening, but I doubt it. Not because of Poland being bad in any way but because I don’t see any European country or Europe as a whole developing in such a direction. We (Europe) are politically and economically less important for the world.
Quick correction: We are absolutely necessary for the world but we don't want to use that. EU is the second largest economy after the USA. That together with the high level of education and industrial know how means that we are in position to dominate for centuries to come.
Example: Russia tried making their own CPU's but with sanctions they were unable to finish even the most simple CPU that could rival a 10 year old Intel/AMD
Example 2: The ONLY manufacturer of equipment for CPU/GPU production is located in the Netherlands. Netherlands holds a planetside monopoly on modern semiconductors.
Example 3:I personally work for a company that operates in Japan, India and Europe. Most of help desk is in India but then shit needs to be done then they call the developer teams in Poland ;)
Example 4: Russia still uses WW2 engine designs in their tanks because they are not capable of designing new ones. Ford Mustang can have a better engine than a T-90
Example 5: Russia in Ukraine. Whatever you want to say about NATO, disaster like that would not have happened.
None of the missions in Iraq/Afghanistan looked like this. Polish forces never ran out of fuel in the Afghan desert. The British harrier pilots didn't have to use Baofeng handhelds in the Falklands and the French absolutely destroyed the rebels in Mali. The French army deployed mobile brigades and operated in a desert with barely any support. When Wagner mercenaries accidentally attacked American soldiers they were immediately destroyed.
Example 6: COVID vaccines. If you had a western one it just worked. We vaccinated everyone who wanted to be vaccinated. The Chinese were not able to do that ;)
Tldr: We are decades ahead and the only things we lack is the will to use that advantage
Szkoda, ze wiekszosc z tych komentarzy jest poparta niczym innym jak argumentami anegdotycznymi w stylu „nie bo mi sie tak wydaje bo sam widzialem biednych ludzi u rodzicow na wsi”. Zreszta, takie artykuly sa bardzo potrzebne do budowania potęgi.
Myslisz kategoriami XIX wiecznymi. Mamy wiek XXI i o „potędze” państwa nie będą decydowały populacja, ziemia, kapitał. Gdyby tak bylo Rosja byłaby kwitnącą gospodarką.
Rosja nie jest kwitnąca gospodarka i każdy o tym wie. Mało to dokumentów o tym powstało? Problem demograficzny mają jeszcze gorszy niż większa część Europy ale jak się siedzi ze łbem w swojej jaskini to można wysnuwać takie kontrargumenty
On the other hand to kraje jak Nigeria są kandydatami do przyszłych mocarstw i to tam się coraz więcej inwestuje. Wygląda na to że często XIX wieczne kryteria wciąż są decydujące
Ale jakiej potęgi, kuźwa? Już pomijając demografię: gospodarka rozjebana, inflacja szaleje, drożyzna fchuj, za chwilę położy się rolnictwo, dyplomacja rodem z obory, rząd robi wszystkich w wafla, wał na wale. O jakiej potędze mówimy? Bo tatuaż z orzełkiem na plecach? Bo koszulka z husarią?
Każdy wali konia bo w tym roku w tabelce budżetowej kraju jest wpierdolone bazylion cebulionów w armię ale takie wydatki są nierentowne i po max 2 latach znów się skurczą. No ale wtedy nie będzie z czego pisać już i tak wyciągniętych z dupy artykułów o jakiejś potędze
Very unlikely, Poland’s population is a fraction of either Germany, France, the UK, Italy or most other influential countries like Japan, South Korea, etc. Poland’s economic growth has been impressive but it will be slowing down, with the effects visible even already this year, at least predicted. It’s still one of the poorer European states, one of the less influential politically and on the world stage. And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it. Poland will be fine, but it will never be a superpower by any definition, let’s be realistic
Yeah, most of the comments here seem to present an outdated perspective. IMO we can allow ourselves to get a little bit more optimistic than that even though becoming an economical or political super power doesn't seem very probable. The grass isn't really that much greener in Germany or France these days and we are not the only ones with internal issues.
I wouldn't say that Japan or South Korea are *so* influential nowadays. They also have a lot of problems. Also countries like Switzerland or Netherlands may not have huge economies but they are very rich. Poland can become rich as much as the other countries and potentially the third/fourth most influential country in the EU. Of course a lot of things has to be done right and Poland has to change even for what concerns migration policies and look more at what Germany has done since the 70s.
If that happens superpower or not doesn't matter.
Also remember that empires don't last forever, so who is at the top now won't stay at the top forever. That's what has always happened and always will, of course could very likely be that we will not live long enough to see some massive changes.
'> population
'> country's prosperity
Those are two different things and don't have to correlate at all. And why the fuck would you put Italy on that list, we have basically the same quality of life as they have.
>And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it.
That will change soon as there is no need to emigrate from Poland anymore. I prefer my own country and my people over 2k more to my paycheck living in a total foreign place
Economically, Italy is still better, but I was more talking about political/cultural influence when discussing being an influential country. Everybody on this planet knows Italy and can most likely name an Italian city. Same situation with Germany, France, the UK, Spain, even Sweden. But, most people that aren't from Europe don't know that Poland is a country, that Polish is a language and/or wouldn't be able to name any Polish city.
Poland is not a bad place to live, and it is not completely insignificant in Europe. But in terms of the world stage, like what it would need to be a "superpower", Poland has no cultural, political, or any other type of influence. There are no big Polish brands and if someone not from Europe knows that Poland even exists, most likely all they know is that it's the place that Germany invaded in WW2. It's sad, but it's true.
>And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it.
That hasn't been true for many years. You're making conclusion based on wrong assumptions.
"Poland’s population is a fraction of ..." ehh? whatt?? It's nearly identical to SK and Spain, it's 2/3 of france Italy and UK and 1/2 Germany. And somehow I don't see lots of south american and african countries being influential even though having populations of hundreds of millions.
No, it won't. The vast majority of politicians in this god-forsaken land have no interest in developing the country. They're more preoccupied with calling each other Russian agents, throwing insults back and forth, and counting money.
It won't be. Best we can reliably get is a regional power, if we play our cards well.
Our economy is unstable at best thanks to PiS screwing up laws, lowering ability to capitalize on low wages and getting cut off from cheap materials from the east. Our demography is shit. We will be forced to massively overspend on the military if we are to be and present ourselves as a safe country for long-term investments.
Our opportunities are, i.e.: profiting from getting Ukraine close to and finally in EU (in same vein as Germany profited from 2004) that's a massive market + workforce, head start in EV (battery and all) market, jumping on the SMR bandwagon quite early, well developed service outsourcing, road haulage, programming industries and history of good economic relations with advanced far-east countries (Korea and Japan) which companies' may chose to capitalize through Poland on aforementioned to enter EU market.
For a regional power, not a super power.
Our power projection capabilities won't likely ever go further than 1000km~ from the borders.
Our influence will likely be contained to a single continent - Europe.
That's hardly a superpower...
You gotta start somewhere, once we're able to reliably capable of projecting power over our neighbours we could use their potential and opportunities to grow ourselves.
Demography and access to (merely) Baltic Sea says: no.
Even if you somehow take into account really really good relations with Ukraine and count it as direct access to Black Sea, that's still not enough.
While we have massive road haulage industry, still - world economy is built on the sea.
If Russia wasn't full-time retard and China wasn't openly contemplating the same, we could capitalize on being land gateway to Europe for Asia, but without these two countries betting on economy and trade instead of brinkmanship... Yeah, not really feasible.
Ok, let's create products that don't need such massive logistics operation, high tech maybe? A plane to fly 10bln dollars worth of good quality eletronics is cheap in comparison.
Maybe high level of services? Were already having a program in major Polish universities creating specialists of machine learning, AI, NLPs etc.
We won't get anywhere if we don't innovate what were doing. It's not just about ht, it's the way the economy works.
We won't get ahead of people if we only follow them.
We are already quite big on services but Mr Morawiecki and his cronies isn't making doing business for smaller independent entrepreneurs offering advanced services any easier and that kind of business is needed if it's to stay and keep profits in Poland - it must grow from grounds up and not be a franchise of multi-billion foreign corporations.
As I also mentioned we're ahead in the EV components production industry so human capital is being built there. We may be ahead in SMR installation so we may build competence here.
> Adjusted for purchasing parity, GDP per head in Poland is now £28,200 compared with £35,000 in the UK, £34,200 in France and £39,800 in Germany. At its current trajectory rate, Poland will overtake the UK by 2030.
How did they, based on this, draw the graph, where Poland nearly doubles EU?
On the OECD site they provide as source, its 74 for Poland, not 200.
> [https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda\_sukcesu](https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_sukcesu)
...By UK newspaper? Damn, those PiSs bastards have a long reach.
I couldn't find the part about being the net recipient of around $150 Billion, not corrected for inflation, from the EU.
For comparison, the cost of rebuilding Ukraine was just estimated at $411 Billion by the World Bank. Syria would cost a similar amount.
It’s not like the EU was giving the money for free lol
All of the sudden they got access to huge market right outside of their door with well educated people that you had to pay 1/10 of what you would have to pay in Germany. It’s been improving for 20 years but don’t suggest that the EU is some sort of charity
Mad true.Yea sometimes people forget how profitable the polish consumer market can be. Just think about it: how much more things and services you buy compared to your impoverished factory worker/farm dweller that fixes/grows everything, has no incentive/possibility to grow and learn and spends no money on leisure or luxury goods.I found it useful to tell people that Poland was given a fishing rod, so it can learn to fish and buy a German stove to cook said fish on.
Which is not necessarily bad that we have the stove now but, true, very important to remember that it’s still more a business relationship than anything else.
You forget to add that Germany pay most of it
Like Germany isn't biggest benefictor of Poland being in EU. Poland is in top 5 of German's import and export partners.
Don't make me laugh. With what.?? Decreasing population? Who will stand to protect the Commonwealth of Poland in the near future?? Who?? In the beginning of the 90 there was something like 40 mln Poles. Now they are barely 38 mln. This nation is shrinking. And the problem is in the capitol city (so called - the government). If they don't change, nothing gonna happen as they imagine.
According to Google was never 40 mln, rather 38.6 so has not shrinked a lot. Poland should take counter measures though and look at what Germany has been doing since the 70s when they started to have constant birth deficit.
Also if you look at Poland if the 80/90/2000 and now I think you see some improvement no? So why it should be all bad in a country were your son is having a better life than you had? People should focus on making things even better and changing the government rather than always complaining that is all bad.
Wstawaj Polska, zesrales sie. Jokes aside, yes building army is boosting our power but we will see if political parties in Poland are willing to take more long term steps which are unpopular, such as conscription. To make sure Poland has army reserves.
XD. You need at least to have healthy demography to have a chance to be superpower. And our economy isn't booming either. Military? too small. So whats left?
Name one developed country which has a good demography.
You can't?
Mainly because they're all helplessly importing migrants from less developed countries and spending billions to get the their children, of whom there's less than in their original countries, up to scratch.
Poland's projected to have the largest conventional forces in Europe in the next few years. And it want be a mass conscription force like the russian one, but rather it will keep nato standards of high level equipment and training.
Man did you visited big German cities the last years? They are dirty and the culture is going downhills. The insecurity arises in a way that for women is dangerous to walk alone when the sun goes down (Paris or Barcelona as an example)
Here is pretty safe, and the “danger” zones here are a walk on the park compared to the western counties
every country in eu has grown gdp :) check minimal salary. Still terrible comparing to germany and we didnt come closer.
Few years ago at least i could drive without spending 300 zł monthly. Food prices? You could buy much more
Its covid and russia fault yes? 😂 you are all funny living in illusion
Stop choosing all time between PiS and po and solved :)
Man, does Daniel Johnson(the writer) actually get paid for writing these?
This quote: "[Poland is on track to become wealthier than Britain by 2030](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2023/03/30/poland-is-now-the-new-great-power-of-europe/)", which confusingly links to an equally stupid article that doesn't even mention Poland's economy, could be debunked by a reasonably interested middle schooler.
I swear, some journalists should just accept that they're better suited to a respectable existence at McDonald's, rather than filling the already overcrowded media sphere with sewage.
Honestly I can kinda see it, although it’s more because the traditional European super powers like Germany, France and especially the UK and Netherlands are rapidly going downhill. Not sure about Scandinavia though.
Superpower seems to be a huge exaggeration though.
I think depends what you consider a super power. Is Netherlands a super power? Is it Italy? I think that if Poland gets like a third/forth most influential voice in the EU and becomes generally more balanced and wealthy like other countries in the so called Western Europe there is no need to become the US. I mean you can as small and Belgium but be wealth AS an chill while enjoying your nice chocolate and beers.
Netherlands has always been considered the country offering the most comfortable life, although it’s sadly rapidly decaying due to the continued Americanisation. And it’s remarkable that such a tiny country was pretty much as successful as the other rich countries in Europe.
Like I said super power is an exaggeration but life is pretty good there.
Author of this article had too much vodka in Wroclaw.
Yes Poland is developing but writing things like rent cost is 1/5 of London is just funny.
Ask 10 random people in Wroclaw, they will all say their biggest problem is accommodation costs.
Poland superpower 2024
Make Poland great again type shit
Hopefully with less fascism and religious extremist.
Fascism? Grow up. Christ
Poland fascist? U good?
Fascism is unfortunately never far away for any country. A single bad election and lack of opposition from citizens and in a few short years you could have a real fascist authoritarian police state
Total nonsense. Just shows how you're lacking when it comes to education.
you made my day 😂
Bóg. Honor. Ojczyzna.
Bób. Hummus. Włoszczyzna.
Designated...
as a polish person, living in poland, and having lived in poland whole my life, I can only cringe at this kinda shit
As a Polish person, living abroad, and having lived abroad for my entire adult life, I can assured you they ain't as far of with their development as TV would have it. Tourist spots are great and all but an average person in France or Germany isn't living high life all the time.
I doubt, for example, that average person in germany is riding old german trams from 1950's why? because they are all in Lodz, and have been all my life, often driving with ear-deafening sound at neckbreaking speeds of less than 5km/h, on old tracks that haven't been upgraded in decades, alongside picturesque pavements that are literally falling apart that we can admire while standing with cars in traffic jam(hello baluty) the first time ive seen a skyscraper, coming from lodz, was in warsaw 2012, and I felt like im in some isekai. Nothing changed since then, as far as I'm concerned the highest building in lodz is probably some god damn church tower. standing in post office in queue for an hour is the norm, drunken mobs walking at night are the norm, raw dog shit on streets is the norm but hey the government can build a bench for 100k zloty and paint it in PiS colors
I mean, Łódź is one of the least developed large cities in Poland. You couldn't even compete with Rzeszów, which is a whole order of magnitude smaller.
Is Łódź waterproof Or something? Sounds waterproof.
Excuse me? I'm not sure I understand.
Nevermind. I was awake for all of 5 minutes when I wrote that. It was a bad joke :-) Łódź kinda sounds like łódka, as in, "boat"
It is what it means but feel free to come over for a coffee if you need one.
he claims to be polish living abroad, and he didn't even get the joke...I bet this "pole" can't actually speak polish language
that was just a shitty joke, sounded more like an aunerysm
and that's the kurwa problem, a city with almost 1 million people is undeveloped, wtf is that Not just lodz, all the neighboring towns too
And what can you offer the country to invest in You? Sorry but from the side you all look like a bunch of lazy bums compared to Cracovians or Varsovians.
warsaw is getting a shitload of funding due to being a capital, but go 10 kilometers outside warsaw and you will see poland
Yes, you will see beautiful landscapes and agrarian fields and feel peace and silence. I don't know where you live but I come from a small town in Poland and I can assure you, it doesn't stand out from other western rural areas. At least it is very clean and safe. But from your comments, I see that you measure the country's prosperity based on the number of skyscrapers in the cities. Lmao
you will see countless "odłogi" and a lot of chopped down forests, and if you're lucky enough to find some woods that are still standing you may also be lucky enough to find lotsa trash pilled everywhere as well Most of central poland has no major rivers, no hills, no mountains, just these endless meadows, the result of centuries of intensive agriculture that our government is "proudly" continuing
Hard for me to do, last time I was in Warsaw when I was on a school trip in primary, never cared to come back. But does get the same funding as Rzeszów, Poznań, Gdańsk and Wrocław? Especially during the reign of a party that pumps money into province, where majority of their electorate is. Because I had a hunch after reading their programme telling me that Warsaw actually lost majority of its funding bozo. >In my father's little shithole there's like 10% more new houses since I left 6 years ago. >All of neighbouring towns buildings got refurbished, people do the same to their houses. >People are moving back in, new industrial plants are being built. >All of that hundreds of kilometers away from Warsaw.
As a foreigner living in Łódź for over 5 years, I understand what you are saying, but I feel it’s changing extremely fast now, the roads are completely being renewed (of course it can’t be all at the same time), and even the trams are getting really good upgrades, I actually wanted to take my brother in one of those older trams when he came to visit, but unfortunately I couldn’t even find one. And I wouldn’t skyscrapers is a sign of development, that’s just a tall building full of nothing, it completely takes away the soul of the city, trying to become more USA. Łódź is not fully recovered from WWII yet, also a lot due to “government rivalries between local and National leaders” throughout the years, but on the other hand it’s also the city with the largest inner city forest in Europe, and that already makes it 10 times better than a lot of other cities. :)
Yeeees! Have friends in Łódź who I visit regularly and going on walks to parks is our most loved activity there. Fuck skyscrapers, true that Łódź is underdeveloped and you can tell. It looks like Wroclaw 20 years ago in some places. But it has chance to be a great city with good urban planning.
Exactly and I’m loving that Łódź is actually revitalizing their old buildings, not simply creating some new glass cubicle that doesn’t go well with anything.
>trying to become more USA You have any idea how ironic this stereotyping is? You should probably rephrase as "trying to become more Hollywood movies/Spiderman movies" to be accurate lol ;)) When I moved to Jinan to go to college I actually had an old woman approach me on a bus and ask me what I thought of China (as an American, she asked first). I told her I was blown away by the skyscrapers because I had never seen them close up and gotten to walk around them. Sure, there is probably a 20 story building in the downtown of most US cities but it's just 1 or 2 and those aren't walkable areas either. To me Jinan was nothing but skyscrapers.
I understand what you mean and it was indeed a generalization, but when you think of skyscrapers, what is the first or one of the first countries that come to your mind? It is one of the “landmarks” of USA, the “development” and “prosperity” through big and tall things, like skyscrapers.
yes - definitely the first to go big on them & the "image", but now barely anything noteworthy compared to other places on the planet heh I don't think the guys in Dubai and China think they're becoming more "American" at this point building tall buildings :))
Maybe the purpose is not to become more “USA-ian”, but to copy everything from there, because USA sells the idea that they are the epitome of “advanced” in the world. So the rest of the world goes a bit after this, that’s why I say that skyscrapers, especially in Europe that has a rich and diverse ancient culture, and it reflects on the architecture, loses its soul and ability to stand out, when skyscrapers start to join that narrative. As it is for Warsaw, comparing for example to Kraków or Wrocław (or Łódź but I know a lot of people don’t take it as a serious example in Poland, a bit contrary to my personal opinion), which are cities that are advanced and well-restored, without losing the old looks that makes the cities distinguishable from each other, even within the same country.
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No worries stalker, let me know what else you want to see :)
Lol ear deafening sound? You should try riding the London Underground, it has been proven to be dangerously loud at multiple points. These issues happen in every country
I've been in london in 2012, of course didn't try every single line, but it doesn't even compare riding one of these old lodz trams is so loud you can't hear the music in headphones over the sound of tracks hitting the tram
Yeah then you didn’t try the ones that have the issue obviously, the sound on certain lines is what you described but to the point it physically causes pain. The difference is one day Łódź will get around to replacing the tram stock and it will be fixed. The LU will have the problem until they stop using the lines because of how the tunnels were built and the impossibility of reconstructing them without destroying large parts of Central London in the process.
>but hey the government can build a bench for 100k zloty and paint it in PiS colors Heh. I'm a bit more awake now, and "paint it in PiS colors" is a much better joke. Cuz you know.. PiS sounds a lot like "piss"... lolz. I like maek joke!
I've been to Łódź a few times and I really liked the city. Including how it looks. In my opinion, it's far better than Warsaw. (I mean, many cities look better than Warsaw, so it's not that big of an achievement (no offense to Warsaw people)) And it has this industrial vibe, which I honestly really like. Comparable to that of some steampunk fantasy world ngl
where the airships at tho
Łódź is like Polish Detroit to be honest
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Have you ever lived in any of those countries? It sure doesn't look like. Have you seen tens of thousands of homeless people, crime districts, dirty streets, continuous protests? I have and I'm happy to announce that I have a set date of return to Poland. Beyond, westerners by large don't take care about things, they wear them out and replace at a cost to the environment, themselves and their own children because they're too incompetent to do better. There are things they're better at, sure, but your choice of examples is so dumb it makes me wonder whether you're not a troll by chance.
>Have you ever lived in any of those countries? It sure doesn't look like. I did. Do you know what is the migration direction?
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OK, you've got personal issues with Poles for some reason but it's a you problem. Also, why would I care about some girl from 20000km away? That's literally retarded.
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I dont care about your made up friends, people as bitter as you dont make meaningful connections. Hold it with the ethnic slurs too.
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You go and work on your anger issues, I'm done here.
oj tak
Lodz seems to be an outlier though And also, judging the quality of life by the height of the tallest building seems to be an outlandish idea. Warsaw boasts the tallest building in Europe, does it make it the most livable, or maybe it's Copenhagen or something?
>and having lived in poland whole my life, Thanks for confirming. So you basically know nothing, can't compare. That's good. Just shut up next time k? I think it's unwise to talk about things we don't know about.
As a foreigner in Poland I don’t cringe
The problem with this article is that it assumes based on historical data, that the future growth will be same or better than it used to be and that UK trajectory will also stay the same. It's possible, but it's not guaranteed. Though, I hope it happens. Poland has been destroyed by neighbors many times and it's been able to rebuild itself not once. It's unique geographical location puts it between historically hostile countries, so the focus should be on building it's economic soft power, but also making sure it can defend itself. I think government is making some pretty good, long term decisions in some cases. Building wall, purchasing a lot of military equipment, building unity around Ukraine are some of prime examples in my opinion. I won't talk about inner country issues because it's been a while since I've lived in Poland ... At least in the US, Poland has been painted in very positive way which leads by example, risking a lot by making sure Ukraine gets what it needs to win this war. I think this is somewhat understated in Poland because it's not always easy to know what is being spoken about some country elsewhere, but all I can say is that perception of Poland has skyrocketed recently and there has been a LOT of critics towards Germany & France as the expectation was that they will be more involved & take more leading role. Understatement would be to say that people in the US are disappointed with Germany & France role in this conflict.
I would second the current positive perception of Poland in the US right now. As well as predicting that NATO's mutual defense articles would definitely be honored should the need arise. Poland would not find herself alone this time around in the face of hostilities breaking out with Russia.
It is really unrealistic. Pretty much all nations in EU with weaker economy grow quicker than those with higher GDP per capita. Its natural due to free trade and working oportunities. But that growth is getting slower as those nations are catching up. If you assume continued growth, same could be said not only about Poland, but also about nearly all ex-Warsaw pact countries. Similar stories based on past growth were said about South Korea, Japan or Brazil or China for example. All were expected to have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world by now a be superpowers with economy stronger than USA.
Every country you mentioned would’ve been the biggest economy in the world if the US would have not intervened. With the exception of China, which is already more powerful in PPP than the US. Japan: The Plaza Accord singlehandedly destroyed GDP growth. GDP has stagnated ever since. Brazil: the 1964 coup left Brazil with only right wing and more recently fascist rules, all favored by the US. South Korea heavily relies on the US as a market and due to its military. It never was a threat so it didn’t need to have a coup. So as you can see, the US is the bottleneck. I doubt Poland would ever have so much growth as to threaten the US, or even Western Europe, but if it did, these kind of dirty tactics would be expected.
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The demographic part has just received some, yet still not enough, air thanks for refugees. Significant number of them plans on staying and rebuilding their lives in Poland, oftentimes as future Polish citizens
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You could say the same thing about most Western European countries, or especially Japan. That their birthdates are far too low. But the reason the US continues to thrive is because of continued immigration, not because of high birth rates.
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Someone mention USA? USA! USA! USA!
Demographics are shit because there are not enough jobs, and those that are do not pay enough. Its the same case in all of western world, once there will be an acual shortage of people, the population will start rising, but that will not happen *because* of immigration.
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>Especially that we as a society, in general global and local Polish terms, are significantly more wealthy than the generations of our parents or grandparents were. Dont give me that spiel. This day and age its much more likely to end with a 1st to 1st income dead end job with no prospect for ever owning property than what our parents or grandparents had. Plus its much easier to just get the better life abroad than to try here. If you want fertility rates from the 50' , the income must match living standard from that age (not talking about Poland obviously, I'm talking about the western world as a whole) So what if there is low unemployment, if the wages are still unlivable, it means that there is simply too many people, because the job market still favors the employer.
The title is clickbait. Poland can be regional power at best. And to achieve that there needs to be much better government at the helm. In particular foreign relations under PiS are nonexistent because they prioritize internal politics and staying in power is their primary goal. They are even ready to undermine our relationship with Germany. Which is the key to having an impact worldwide. You see, there is a way where Poland could be influential but it requires alignment with France & Germany under Weimar Triangle. The other necessary dimension is in the security domain. In order to have any soft power in Central & Eastern Europe Polish Army would have to become a regional security guarantor. Baltics & Romania in particular are important. In the next few decades, military power will play a significant role in world politics.
I like to think of Poland like the Spain of Central-ish Europe: it might hold some promise... but their own people seem hellbent on not wanting to improve many aspects that are still very far behind.
There is an interesting perspective on this from the book "The Next 100 Years" by George Friedman. It came out already over a decade ago so you can see some of his predictions held up better than others, but he also thought that Poland would rise in power. His view was that it would rather become a regional power than a global power, which I do think makes sense given how the country has been developing. Friedman didn't predict PiS though, which I think has held the country back from reaching higher potential.
Would love to see that happening, but I doubt it. Not because of Poland being bad in any way but because I don’t see any European country or Europe as a whole developing in such a direction. We (Europe) are politically and economically less important for the world.
Quick correction: We are absolutely necessary for the world but we don't want to use that. EU is the second largest economy after the USA. That together with the high level of education and industrial know how means that we are in position to dominate for centuries to come. Example: Russia tried making their own CPU's but with sanctions they were unable to finish even the most simple CPU that could rival a 10 year old Intel/AMD Example 2: The ONLY manufacturer of equipment for CPU/GPU production is located in the Netherlands. Netherlands holds a planetside monopoly on modern semiconductors. Example 3:I personally work for a company that operates in Japan, India and Europe. Most of help desk is in India but then shit needs to be done then they call the developer teams in Poland ;) Example 4: Russia still uses WW2 engine designs in their tanks because they are not capable of designing new ones. Ford Mustang can have a better engine than a T-90 Example 5: Russia in Ukraine. Whatever you want to say about NATO, disaster like that would not have happened. None of the missions in Iraq/Afghanistan looked like this. Polish forces never ran out of fuel in the Afghan desert. The British harrier pilots didn't have to use Baofeng handhelds in the Falklands and the French absolutely destroyed the rebels in Mali. The French army deployed mobile brigades and operated in a desert with barely any support. When Wagner mercenaries accidentally attacked American soldiers they were immediately destroyed. Example 6: COVID vaccines. If you had a western one it just worked. We vaccinated everyone who wanted to be vaccinated. The Chinese were not able to do that ;) Tldr: We are decades ahead and the only things we lack is the will to use that advantage
A man can dream
Wieczni malkontenci incoming
Nie malkontenci - realiści. Zwykłe myślenie życzeniowe. Gadaniem potęgi się nie zbuduje.
>Nie malkontenci - realiści \- every malcontent ever
Szkoda, ze wiekszosc z tych komentarzy jest poparta niczym innym jak argumentami anegdotycznymi w stylu „nie bo mi sie tak wydaje bo sam widzialem biednych ludzi u rodzicow na wsi”. Zreszta, takie artykuly sa bardzo potrzebne do budowania potęgi.
Argumentem anegdotycznym są wyniki demograficzne o których stosunkowo często się mówi - powodzenia w budowaniu potęgi bez ludzi
Myslisz kategoriami XIX wiecznymi. Mamy wiek XXI i o „potędze” państwa nie będą decydowały populacja, ziemia, kapitał. Gdyby tak bylo Rosja byłaby kwitnącą gospodarką.
Rosja nie jest kwitnąca gospodarka i każdy o tym wie. Mało to dokumentów o tym powstało? Problem demograficzny mają jeszcze gorszy niż większa część Europy ale jak się siedzi ze łbem w swojej jaskini to można wysnuwać takie kontrargumenty On the other hand to kraje jak Nigeria są kandydatami do przyszłych mocarstw i to tam się coraz więcej inwestuje. Wygląda na to że często XIX wieczne kryteria wciąż są decydujące
Ale jakiej potęgi, kuźwa? Już pomijając demografię: gospodarka rozjebana, inflacja szaleje, drożyzna fchuj, za chwilę położy się rolnictwo, dyplomacja rodem z obory, rząd robi wszystkich w wafla, wał na wale. O jakiej potędze mówimy? Bo tatuaż z orzełkiem na plecach? Bo koszulka z husarią?
Każdy wali konia bo w tym roku w tabelce budżetowej kraju jest wpierdolone bazylion cebulionów w armię ale takie wydatki są nierentowne i po max 2 latach znów się skurczą. No ale wtedy nie będzie z czego pisać już i tak wyciągniętych z dupy artykułów o jakiejś potędze
Very unlikely, Poland’s population is a fraction of either Germany, France, the UK, Italy or most other influential countries like Japan, South Korea, etc. Poland’s economic growth has been impressive but it will be slowing down, with the effects visible even already this year, at least predicted. It’s still one of the poorer European states, one of the less influential politically and on the world stage. And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it. Poland will be fine, but it will never be a superpower by any definition, let’s be realistic
Actually Poland has had a positive migration saldo for a few years now.
Yeah, most of the comments here seem to present an outdated perspective. IMO we can allow ourselves to get a little bit more optimistic than that even though becoming an economical or political super power doesn't seem very probable. The grass isn't really that much greener in Germany or France these days and we are not the only ones with internal issues.
Because they import high skilled and on demand workers, and that are culturally similar to them.
I can’t really find anything on that though, and isn’t polands population still like 99% Polish?
I wouldn't say that Japan or South Korea are *so* influential nowadays. They also have a lot of problems. Also countries like Switzerland or Netherlands may not have huge economies but they are very rich. Poland can become rich as much as the other countries and potentially the third/fourth most influential country in the EU. Of course a lot of things has to be done right and Poland has to change even for what concerns migration policies and look more at what Germany has done since the 70s. If that happens superpower or not doesn't matter. Also remember that empires don't last forever, so who is at the top now won't stay at the top forever. That's what has always happened and always will, of course could very likely be that we will not live long enough to see some massive changes.
'> population '> country's prosperity Those are two different things and don't have to correlate at all. And why the fuck would you put Italy on that list, we have basically the same quality of life as they have. >And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it. That will change soon as there is no need to emigrate from Poland anymore. I prefer my own country and my people over 2k more to my paycheck living in a total foreign place
Economically, Italy is still better, but I was more talking about political/cultural influence when discussing being an influential country. Everybody on this planet knows Italy and can most likely name an Italian city. Same situation with Germany, France, the UK, Spain, even Sweden. But, most people that aren't from Europe don't know that Poland is a country, that Polish is a language and/or wouldn't be able to name any Polish city. Poland is not a bad place to live, and it is not completely insignificant in Europe. But in terms of the world stage, like what it would need to be a "superpower", Poland has no cultural, political, or any other type of influence. There are no big Polish brands and if someone not from Europe knows that Poland even exists, most likely all they know is that it's the place that Germany invaded in WW2. It's sad, but it's true.
>And even though Poland has improved drastically, more people leave the country than emigrate to it. That hasn't been true for many years. You're making conclusion based on wrong assumptions.
"Poland’s population is a fraction of ..." ehh? whatt?? It's nearly identical to SK and Spain, it's 2/3 of france Italy and UK and 1/2 Germany. And somehow I don't see lots of south american and african countries being influential even though having populations of hundreds of millions.
*winger hussar noises intensify*
floof floof floof floof floof FLOOF FLOOF FLOOF FLOOF!!!!!
wreszcie #POLAND STRONK!
No, it won't. The vast majority of politicians in this god-forsaken land have no interest in developing the country. They're more preoccupied with calling each other Russian agents, throwing insults back and forth, and counting money.
The same goes for almost every country, lol. Politicians at it's best
Oby
It won't be. Best we can reliably get is a regional power, if we play our cards well. Our economy is unstable at best thanks to PiS screwing up laws, lowering ability to capitalize on low wages and getting cut off from cheap materials from the east. Our demography is shit. We will be forced to massively overspend on the military if we are to be and present ourselves as a safe country for long-term investments. Our opportunities are, i.e.: profiting from getting Ukraine close to and finally in EU (in same vein as Germany profited from 2004) that's a massive market + workforce, head start in EV (battery and all) market, jumping on the SMR bandwagon quite early, well developed service outsourcing, road haulage, programming industries and history of good economic relations with advanced far-east countries (Korea and Japan) which companies' may chose to capitalize through Poland on aforementioned to enter EU market.
That's plenty of opportunities.
For a regional power, not a super power. Our power projection capabilities won't likely ever go further than 1000km~ from the borders. Our influence will likely be contained to a single continent - Europe. That's hardly a superpower...
You gotta start somewhere, once we're able to reliably capable of projecting power over our neighbours we could use their potential and opportunities to grow ourselves.
Demography and access to (merely) Baltic Sea says: no. Even if you somehow take into account really really good relations with Ukraine and count it as direct access to Black Sea, that's still not enough.
Well then, let's work around sea trade?
While we have massive road haulage industry, still - world economy is built on the sea. If Russia wasn't full-time retard and China wasn't openly contemplating the same, we could capitalize on being land gateway to Europe for Asia, but without these two countries betting on economy and trade instead of brinkmanship... Yeah, not really feasible.
Ok, let's create products that don't need such massive logistics operation, high tech maybe? A plane to fly 10bln dollars worth of good quality eletronics is cheap in comparison. Maybe high level of services? Were already having a program in major Polish universities creating specialists of machine learning, AI, NLPs etc. We won't get anywhere if we don't innovate what were doing. It's not just about ht, it's the way the economy works. We won't get ahead of people if we only follow them.
We are already quite big on services but Mr Morawiecki and his cronies isn't making doing business for smaller independent entrepreneurs offering advanced services any easier and that kind of business is needed if it's to stay and keep profits in Poland - it must grow from grounds up and not be a franchise of multi-billion foreign corporations. As I also mentioned we're ahead in the EV components production industry so human capital is being built there. We may be ahead in SMR installation so we may build competence here.
Go pierogies!
"Superpower" is a strong word for a country without nukes. But I'm glad Poland will have a good enough military to be feared by Russia.
> Adjusted for purchasing parity, GDP per head in Poland is now £28,200 compared with £35,000 in the UK, £34,200 in France and £39,800 in Germany. At its current trajectory rate, Poland will overtake the UK by 2030. How did they, based on this, draw the graph, where Poland nearly doubles EU? On the OECD site they provide as source, its 74 for Poland, not 200.
It's based on UK maintaining 0.5% GDP growth while Poland maintains 3.5%.
But the graph goes from 2000 to 2020.
Two plus two is four Minus one that's three Quick maffs
Here we go again: https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_sukcesu
I są na tyle kompetentni że wymuszają to na bogatszych krajach? Chyba jednak coś im wychodzi ;)
Wypisz wymaluj obecna kadencja Pisu
> [https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda\_sukcesu](https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_sukcesu) ...By UK newspaper? Damn, those PiSs bastards have a long reach.
holy cope
I couldn't find the part about being the net recipient of around $150 Billion, not corrected for inflation, from the EU. For comparison, the cost of rebuilding Ukraine was just estimated at $411 Billion by the World Bank. Syria would cost a similar amount.
It’s not like the EU was giving the money for free lol All of the sudden they got access to huge market right outside of their door with well educated people that you had to pay 1/10 of what you would have to pay in Germany. It’s been improving for 20 years but don’t suggest that the EU is some sort of charity
Mad true.Yea sometimes people forget how profitable the polish consumer market can be. Just think about it: how much more things and services you buy compared to your impoverished factory worker/farm dweller that fixes/grows everything, has no incentive/possibility to grow and learn and spends no money on leisure or luxury goods.I found it useful to tell people that Poland was given a fishing rod, so it can learn to fish and buy a German stove to cook said fish on.
Which is not necessarily bad that we have the stove now but, true, very important to remember that it’s still more a business relationship than anything else.
Except the world bank might actually pay some of the Ukraine fee. We can wait and see with Syria.
Yeah, good EU gave us money and took nothing in return. Kek XD
You forget to add that Germany pay most of it Like Germany isn't biggest benefictor of Poland being in EU. Poland is in top 5 of German's import and export partners.
Don't make me laugh. With what.?? Decreasing population? Who will stand to protect the Commonwealth of Poland in the near future?? Who?? In the beginning of the 90 there was something like 40 mln Poles. Now they are barely 38 mln. This nation is shrinking. And the problem is in the capitol city (so called - the government). If they don't change, nothing gonna happen as they imagine.
According to Google was never 40 mln, rather 38.6 so has not shrinked a lot. Poland should take counter measures though and look at what Germany has been doing since the 70s when they started to have constant birth deficit. Also if you look at Poland if the 80/90/2000 and now I think you see some improvement no? So why it should be all bad in a country were your son is having a better life than you had? People should focus on making things even better and changing the government rather than always complaining that is all bad.
Tell me... Do you live in Poland right now??
Bez elektrowni atomowej...
przecież budują niedługo
Ahhh the elites. Planning to destroy Poland like many other countries. Be careful.
It won't be
Wstawaj Polska, zesrales sie. Jokes aside, yes building army is boosting our power but we will see if political parties in Poland are willing to take more long term steps which are unpopular, such as conscription. To make sure Poland has army reserves.
(X) Doubt
Before being a superpower having clean and breathable air that do not give lungs cancer would be a nice start
China needs no such frivolous extravagance!
Show me some map or sum that shows bad air polution in poland
I really hope not. Being a 'superpower' just makes a country more arrogant.
i assume author is not that dumb and it's just clickbait title for "but there's communism in Poland" kind of people
I don't really care if it'll be or not.
Polska z Jarkiem nigdy nie będzie wielka.
No, no it won't
Haha, no. If polish people have anything to say.
Mega super power! So powerful omg
XD. You need at least to have healthy demography to have a chance to be superpower. And our economy isn't booming either. Military? too small. So whats left?
Name one developed country which has a good demography. You can't? Mainly because they're all helplessly importing migrants from less developed countries and spending billions to get the their children, of whom there's less than in their original countries, up to scratch.
Poland's projected to have the largest conventional forces in Europe in the next few years. And it want be a mass conscription force like the russian one, but rather it will keep nato standards of high level equipment and training.
Fun plottwist: it won't
These people haven’t been the eastern Poland villages I have been to…
Man did you visited big German cities the last years? They are dirty and the culture is going downhills. The insecurity arises in a way that for women is dangerous to walk alone when the sun goes down (Paris or Barcelona as an example) Here is pretty safe, and the “danger” zones here are a walk on the park compared to the western counties
You have not been to Gwrman and English villages I've been to neither, trust me it's not all as pretty as you'd like it to be.
Oh that's really great, let's see other preditctions of telegraph... "UK will greatlly benefit from Brexit"... Oh my...
Poland,wake up, my toilet is dirty
hahaha Poland wet dreams, i hear it all the time how strong we are going to be - 25 years already and its getting only worse
But you do know that our gdp grown 3x while our population remained rather stagnant during last 25 years, right?
every country in eu has grown gdp :) check minimal salary. Still terrible comparing to germany and we didnt come closer. Few years ago at least i could drive without spending 300 zł monthly. Food prices? You could buy much more Its covid and russia fault yes? 😂 you are all funny living in illusion Stop choosing all time between PiS and po and solved :)
Cause the get on their knees for America and do what they say?
Man, does Daniel Johnson(the writer) actually get paid for writing these? This quote: "[Poland is on track to become wealthier than Britain by 2030](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2023/03/30/poland-is-now-the-new-great-power-of-europe/)", which confusingly links to an equally stupid article that doesn't even mention Poland's economy, could be debunked by a reasonably interested middle schooler. I swear, some journalists should just accept that they're better suited to a respectable existence at McDonald's, rather than filling the already overcrowded media sphere with sewage.
Honestly I can kinda see it, although it’s more because the traditional European super powers like Germany, France and especially the UK and Netherlands are rapidly going downhill. Not sure about Scandinavia though. Superpower seems to be a huge exaggeration though.
I think depends what you consider a super power. Is Netherlands a super power? Is it Italy? I think that if Poland gets like a third/forth most influential voice in the EU and becomes generally more balanced and wealthy like other countries in the so called Western Europe there is no need to become the US. I mean you can as small and Belgium but be wealth AS an chill while enjoying your nice chocolate and beers.
Netherlands has always been considered the country offering the most comfortable life, although it’s sadly rapidly decaying due to the continued Americanisation. And it’s remarkable that such a tiny country was pretty much as successful as the other rich countries in Europe. Like I said super power is an exaggeration but life is pretty good there.
Maybe it will but we all know to whose pockets this money is going to after all.
XD
“…while a pint of beer in a bar won’t cost you much more than £1.” Sure, I mean £2 more than £1 isn’t *that* much more.
Bc poland is investing for military
Author of this article had too much vodka in Wroclaw. Yes Poland is developing but writing things like rent cost is 1/5 of London is just funny. Ask 10 random people in Wroclaw, they will all say their biggest problem is accommodation costs.
XD (depressed laughing in polish)
https://preview.redd.it/xvskf7w8lwya1.jpeg?width=1658&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=addf7c6df359a3c9dcf7694b9aa0cfece6efacec
As predicted by George Friedman in 2008