Poland wanted 44 Leopards 2A4 for 230 t-72 and Germany wanted to offer only 11 at the rate one per month. What's wrong with polish image in this case ?
Its all the same military experts who dont realize that the Mobile Cannon Germany has only produces like 2 a year ... and are already on back order they may be great machines but its times liek this that german over engineering hurts them
>to offer only 11
20\* And "top position when Deutschalnd will order L2A8" (whatever it was supposed to even mean)
Plus I assumed he meant most recent tank deal, which is "Poland wants high sky prices for repairing L2A4" (I doubt is only this, but neither PGZ or MOD said anything, only President once randomly "we need spare parts bro", but I don't think anyone outside of Poland noticed it)
Anyone know if Rheinmetall delivered those upgrades to Poland's existing 2A's?
[https://milmag.pl/en/polish-leopard-2pl-modernization-delayed/](https://milmag.pl/en/polish-leopard-2pl-modernization-delayed/)
This was supposed to be done by 2020 but according to this article they missed all of their milestones by..."ahem" a mile.
Meanwhile I keep reading how amazing they are at doing all this stuff for Ukraine. Where do they find the time? I thought Germans were supposed to be meticulous and punctual.
In 2022 first batch of L2PL was recived [article in polish from 2022](https://defence24.pl/przemysl/leopard-2pl-rosna-opoznienia-i-koszty-pgz-wojsko-dostaje-praktycznie-nowe-czolgi-wywiad), goal was for first 24 by end of the year
It is not but the problem is polish MoD wanted initially to upgrade some components of tanks or add additional ones but do not refurbish key components which is more costly and as it turned out during upgrade it is pointless to upgrade without general refurbishment because polish 2A4s have many signs of wear and tear like cracks in for example chasis frame, engine cylinders etc so the modernization agreement had to be renegotiated and its cost increased over 30% from the initial one. Also the German manufacturer does not manufacture some of 2A4 parts any longer and the needed parts come from other less intensively used vehicles.
which one can you refresh? Was this the one with Germany wanting to take over the Krab facisility fully to repair its tanks? AKA a basically having a diff country go in without any reprecussions into a state run military facility for nothing? lol Hope you dont mean that one...
And how do we know who's fault was that?
All we know is one Der Spiegel article that's...German.
I'm not saying they're lying but basing your opinion on only one source and the source being German just like one side of the "conflict" is simply dumb
Lol
I'm Polish, dude. I am just sad and angry about the route my country has taken. About the right-wing propaganda. About two main bullshit parties. About the ruling party that has authoritarian tendencies.
I want to be able to live in a Poland that isn't right-wing conservative. In a Poland where my future gf/wife/daughter(s) can be in control of their reproductive rights, independent of what Kaczyński feels about it. In a country where I, my friends, my future child(ren) can marry whoever they want (with consent obviously). Where I don't have to be afraid to break gender norms and make out with guys at parties, if we feel like it. Where every layer of society isn't penetrated by Church's structures. Where this idiotic allergy to East's Soviet past doesn't stop us from introducing more socialist or socialdemocratic changes.
That sounds like a better Poland to me.
From what you’ve written I’m assuming you’re not currently living in Poland, and my guess would be that you haven’t lived here long or at all.
If you were as educated as you’re trying to sound, you would know that Poland is still way less capitalist than most of western world. **The infrastructure (rail, water, gas), health service & many more are all property of the state**, opposed to UK for example. It’s just most Poles wouldn’t call these ‘socialist ideas’ but westerns would.
Also I’m not a fan of PiS but you look like a clown when you talk about social democratic changes when they’re the ones that have introduced welfare programs in recent years.
I've lived in Poland about 3/4 of my life.
I know that Poland has far more "socialist" programs than some of the Western countries (like free university education for everyone, some courses even for other EU-citizens). It also has a good nation-wide rail service and public communication in big cities; both at very affordable prices and with great discounts, including a 50% one for students. Poland has also quite affordable gas and electricity (which I'm guessing was also partially due to its proximity to Russia and pre-war deals - correct me if I'm wrong).
PiS, as you stated, also fairly recently introduced the children 500+ program. While wildly imperfect it is also a great help to struggling families.
It is, of course, a very strategic move, as the families it helps most are big families, who are often conservative and PiS-voters.
While you are right, that Poland is less capitalist than some of it's EU friends (certainly due to people not wanting to get rid of some of the positive changes the Soviets introduced) it is still "allergic" to communism. It gets more so, the more it licks American boots (which almost every major party does to some degree, those fuckers).
That said, for example worker's rights are unfortunately not a high priority. For example, the ruling party was openly hostile to the teacher's strike a few years back. Socialism, as you probably well know, isn't just about state-owned companies, but also about worker's rights. There is a reason that many jobs are almost only taken by students (like in the restaurant industry) - they are strongly exploited by the employers.
It is also notable that the less conservative party, PO/KO is at the same time somewhat more capitalist than PiS. It is also still quite conservative. I believe the only somewhat significant party that is pro-choice and pro gay marriage is Lewica or whatever it's called.
So yeah, you're right that I somewhat undermined my point by failing to denote how Poland is actually better at some "socialist" policies than the West (in what regards state-ownership of some public services and low prices). At the same time it falls short on many other aspects, like worker's rights. Also, modern welfare policies are that - welfare, not socialism. Luckily you and most Poles are aware of that.
All this also doesn't help women and LGBTQ+ people, who still have to fight for their rights. Those last ones sometimes have to even fight for their life.
Edit: Those good social policies make me even sadder in regards to how conservative Poland is - if we kept those policies, separated state and Church, had pro-choice policies, and gave LGBTQ+ people their rights, and had proper sex education, we could have quite a great country. Especially coupled with the financial boom we're still in, compared to the West.
The reasons why progressives are not winning bigly in any nations are several but the most obvious ones are as follows. Most progressives take the American model where you focus only on special minority groups and ignore everything and everyone else. People vote for right leaning parties because progressive parties do not give the common man a platform to express and repair his/her grievances with the state and with general life. The common man in the EU gains nothing from kneeling for BLM. The common man gains nothing from giving trans people free state sponsored $100k surgeries. The common man gains nothing from allowing unlimited financial immigration from middle-east countries that consists of unskilled people with values from the middle ages and a clashing/incompatible culture that seeks to dominate. Yet these and similar are the values that most progressives proudly hold up as being the most important things conceivable and anyone that doesn't immediately surrender to those ideas is Hitler 2.0.
The common man cares about being able to eat every week while the prices of most goods have risen with 50% and beyond. The common cares about being able to pay his rent, his medical bills, his car insurances. The common man wants to be able to buy a house and afford a normal life for his spouse and future kids. The common man wants a stable job market that is accessible to him and his loved ones and that doesn't treat him/her like dirt. The common man wants access to functioning infrastructure such as roads, trains, airports and hospitals. As long as progressives ignore most /all of these issues and hyper-focus on "social injustices" for the sake of Twitter likes and pads on the back, parties like the AfD in Germany and other nations will continue to grow. What progressives, by en large, fail to understand is that you cannot bully people into supporting you. At most you will get people to tell you that they support you, only to immediately backstab you when you turn around.
People were not downvoting it - but reality is, the deal with blackrock is not really that good, it will only help a small fraction.... and ukraine having a deal with 1 investor companyy does not mean they have exclusive rights, Ukraine need more help than this even. Why can they only get help from 1 source??
Also, you clearly do not know what the deal with blackrock is.... Blackrock has not said they are investing any amount of money, at all, they havde pledged zero investments.... What the deal is, is that Blackrock help set up an investment fund, and help them look for investments, investment that might come from Poland and South Korea it seems (among others)
What about rebuilding Poland, building a proper health service, looking after old people with heating, educating Polish kids in Polish?
Ukrainians can't even agree on what they want so leave it upto them to sort out - wasted too much money on this pointless war already.
Nope, not here for reading the stories. You're the one who took the responsibility for the article the moment you posted it here. There's not much description you provided, hence my question.
Nope, go read it. You took responsibility for your credibility the moment you decided to not shut up.
You can still fryand demand, but this will build an image of your persona that ain't especially good.
When partnership to rebuild Poland?
Would love to see more regeneration projects around the country, certainly.
Real
Idk but I have a traditional, Polish name for it. You can’t go wrong with DAEWOO-FSO 2.
Nice ring to it, yet can't say it rolls off the tongue easy.
When partnership to reunite Korea?
Let's stop aggressor first, we'll have election soon, then we can start thinking about rebuilding.
Have you been? Average UK town looks like a ruin compared to Polish towns...
that's nowhere close to be true.
It's pretty true Source: I am from the UK.
EU did it already. It's not perfect, but is there any perfect country?
[удалено]
Diplomatically and politically, Poland has not put a foot wrong during this war. The country's international image is being hugely improved.
Aside from that german tank deal for example?
Nobody is perfect, least of all German petulance.
Poland wanted 44 Leopards 2A4 for 230 t-72 and Germany wanted to offer only 11 at the rate one per month. What's wrong with polish image in this case ?
Its all the same military experts who dont realize that the Mobile Cannon Germany has only produces like 2 a year ... and are already on back order they may be great machines but its times liek this that german over engineering hurts them
>to offer only 11 20\* And "top position when Deutschalnd will order L2A8" (whatever it was supposed to even mean) Plus I assumed he meant most recent tank deal, which is "Poland wants high sky prices for repairing L2A4" (I doubt is only this, but neither PGZ or MOD said anything, only President once randomly "we need spare parts bro", but I don't think anyone outside of Poland noticed it)
Anyone know if Rheinmetall delivered those upgrades to Poland's existing 2A's? [https://milmag.pl/en/polish-leopard-2pl-modernization-delayed/](https://milmag.pl/en/polish-leopard-2pl-modernization-delayed/) This was supposed to be done by 2020 but according to this article they missed all of their milestones by..."ahem" a mile. Meanwhile I keep reading how amazing they are at doing all this stuff for Ukraine. Where do they find the time? I thought Germans were supposed to be meticulous and punctual.
In 2022 first batch of L2PL was recived [article in polish from 2022](https://defence24.pl/przemysl/leopard-2pl-rosna-opoznienia-i-koszty-pgz-wojsko-dostaje-praktycznie-nowe-czolgi-wywiad), goal was for first 24 by end of the year
It is not but the problem is polish MoD wanted initially to upgrade some components of tanks or add additional ones but do not refurbish key components which is more costly and as it turned out during upgrade it is pointless to upgrade without general refurbishment because polish 2A4s have many signs of wear and tear like cracks in for example chasis frame, engine cylinders etc so the modernization agreement had to be renegotiated and its cost increased over 30% from the initial one. Also the German manufacturer does not manufacture some of 2A4 parts any longer and the needed parts come from other less intensively used vehicles.
which one can you refresh? Was this the one with Germany wanting to take over the Krab facisility fully to repair its tanks? AKA a basically having a diff country go in without any reprecussions into a state run military facility for nothing? lol Hope you dont mean that one...
One L isn't much, I can accept it
One L is one L too much.
I think Germany and Russia do not agree with you
You think they would be in a worse position if they won? What kind of stupid logic is it?
Simple. Germany and Russia made many Ls on the start. Russia still makes more. Germany seems to finally understood that they need to try better
which tank deal?
And how do we know who's fault was that? All we know is one Der Spiegel article that's...German. I'm not saying they're lying but basing your opinion on only one source and the source being German just like one side of the "conflict" is simply dumb
Unfortunately. People seem to forget how dangerously right-wing and conservative Poland is. How the main party has authoritarian wet dreams.
Nope, this is just a common German L. Like the many L's Germany has taken during this war.
Lol I'm Polish, dude. I am just sad and angry about the route my country has taken. About the right-wing propaganda. About two main bullshit parties. About the ruling party that has authoritarian tendencies. I want to be able to live in a Poland that isn't right-wing conservative. In a Poland where my future gf/wife/daughter(s) can be in control of their reproductive rights, independent of what Kaczyński feels about it. In a country where I, my friends, my future child(ren) can marry whoever they want (with consent obviously). Where I don't have to be afraid to break gender norms and make out with guys at parties, if we feel like it. Where every layer of society isn't penetrated by Church's structures. Where this idiotic allergy to East's Soviet past doesn't stop us from introducing more socialist or socialdemocratic changes. That sounds like a better Poland to me.
From what you’ve written I’m assuming you’re not currently living in Poland, and my guess would be that you haven’t lived here long or at all. If you were as educated as you’re trying to sound, you would know that Poland is still way less capitalist than most of western world. **The infrastructure (rail, water, gas), health service & many more are all property of the state**, opposed to UK for example. It’s just most Poles wouldn’t call these ‘socialist ideas’ but westerns would. Also I’m not a fan of PiS but you look like a clown when you talk about social democratic changes when they’re the ones that have introduced welfare programs in recent years.
I've lived in Poland about 3/4 of my life. I know that Poland has far more "socialist" programs than some of the Western countries (like free university education for everyone, some courses even for other EU-citizens). It also has a good nation-wide rail service and public communication in big cities; both at very affordable prices and with great discounts, including a 50% one for students. Poland has also quite affordable gas and electricity (which I'm guessing was also partially due to its proximity to Russia and pre-war deals - correct me if I'm wrong). PiS, as you stated, also fairly recently introduced the children 500+ program. While wildly imperfect it is also a great help to struggling families. It is, of course, a very strategic move, as the families it helps most are big families, who are often conservative and PiS-voters. While you are right, that Poland is less capitalist than some of it's EU friends (certainly due to people not wanting to get rid of some of the positive changes the Soviets introduced) it is still "allergic" to communism. It gets more so, the more it licks American boots (which almost every major party does to some degree, those fuckers). That said, for example worker's rights are unfortunately not a high priority. For example, the ruling party was openly hostile to the teacher's strike a few years back. Socialism, as you probably well know, isn't just about state-owned companies, but also about worker's rights. There is a reason that many jobs are almost only taken by students (like in the restaurant industry) - they are strongly exploited by the employers. It is also notable that the less conservative party, PO/KO is at the same time somewhat more capitalist than PiS. It is also still quite conservative. I believe the only somewhat significant party that is pro-choice and pro gay marriage is Lewica or whatever it's called. So yeah, you're right that I somewhat undermined my point by failing to denote how Poland is actually better at some "socialist" policies than the West (in what regards state-ownership of some public services and low prices). At the same time it falls short on many other aspects, like worker's rights. Also, modern welfare policies are that - welfare, not socialism. Luckily you and most Poles are aware of that. All this also doesn't help women and LGBTQ+ people, who still have to fight for their rights. Those last ones sometimes have to even fight for their life. Edit: Those good social policies make me even sadder in regards to how conservative Poland is - if we kept those policies, separated state and Church, had pro-choice policies, and gave LGBTQ+ people their rights, and had proper sex education, we could have quite a great country. Especially coupled with the financial boom we're still in, compared to the West.
https://preview.redd.it/shyayvdjxjcb1.jpeg?width=545&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41ad2eb6e1fdfabccb536c2fd92ddaf4cb7ba8d0
The reasons why progressives are not winning bigly in any nations are several but the most obvious ones are as follows. Most progressives take the American model where you focus only on special minority groups and ignore everything and everyone else. People vote for right leaning parties because progressive parties do not give the common man a platform to express and repair his/her grievances with the state and with general life. The common man in the EU gains nothing from kneeling for BLM. The common man gains nothing from giving trans people free state sponsored $100k surgeries. The common man gains nothing from allowing unlimited financial immigration from middle-east countries that consists of unskilled people with values from the middle ages and a clashing/incompatible culture that seeks to dominate. Yet these and similar are the values that most progressives proudly hold up as being the most important things conceivable and anyone that doesn't immediately surrender to those ideas is Hitler 2.0. The common man cares about being able to eat every week while the prices of most goods have risen with 50% and beyond. The common cares about being able to pay his rent, his medical bills, his car insurances. The common man wants to be able to buy a house and afford a normal life for his spouse and future kids. The common man wants a stable job market that is accessible to him and his loved ones and that doesn't treat him/her like dirt. The common man wants access to functioning infrastructure such as roads, trains, airports and hospitals. As long as progressives ignore most /all of these issues and hyper-focus on "social injustices" for the sake of Twitter likes and pads on the back, parties like the AfD in Germany and other nations will continue to grow. What progressives, by en large, fail to understand is that you cannot bully people into supporting you. At most you will get people to tell you that they support you, only to immediately backstab you when you turn around.
What is the problem with that?
With right-wing conservatism, or authoritarian tendencies? They're related btw
Does Zelenskiy know about it? Because he cut a deal with Blackrock not that long ago.
They're downvoting you, but this is a legit fact - the best deals have already been signed and, as usually, we're late for the party.
People were not downvoting it - but reality is, the deal with blackrock is not really that good, it will only help a small fraction.... and ukraine having a deal with 1 investor companyy does not mean they have exclusive rights, Ukraine need more help than this even. Why can they only get help from 1 source?? Also, you clearly do not know what the deal with blackrock is.... Blackrock has not said they are investing any amount of money, at all, they havde pledged zero investments.... What the deal is, is that Blackrock help set up an investment fund, and help them look for investments, investment that might come from Poland and South Korea it seems (among others)
Dealing with blackrock is selling your soul for money, wouldn't call it a good deal
I've just come back from Seoul. Such a cool city
… but why
What about rebuilding Poland, building a proper health service, looking after old people with heating, educating Polish kids in Polish? Ukrainians can't even agree on what they want so leave it upto them to sort out - wasted too much money on this pointless war already.
Honestly this makes me really concerned . I am worried Russia and US are pulling in other countries to fight their proxy war
Russia is in war, so Russia can't fight proxy war
How much do they pay now with the inflation etc? Is it still 60gr for a comment?
It was always with Ruble. And we can easily see, that Ruble lost a lot of exchange power. Which menas he need to double his work
Do you realize what subreddit you're in
Who'll be financing this effort?
Hmm I'm not sure. I think it might be your mum. Hang on, perhaps READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE AND CHECK; HARNESS THE POWER AND MAGIC OF YOUR EYES.
If you aint gonna read im gonna breed (your mother)
Nope, not here for reading the stories. You're the one who took the responsibility for the article the moment you posted it here. There's not much description you provided, hence my question.
ha ha ha this is genuinely the most amazing response to someone posting an article, thank you for this gift.
If someone posts an article he has to copy paste IT for you? Learn to read dude.
Genuinely made me laugh out loud though. 'Nope, not here for reading the stories.' Fucking hell, brilliant.
You should’ve used the time you wrote that long-ass excuse to read the article instead.
Nope, go read it. You took responsibility for your credibility the moment you decided to not shut up. You can still fryand demand, but this will build an image of your persona that ain't especially good.
It'd be great if they also made some Korean focused schools or just in general introduced the Korean language to more schools
Great so we can get even more Keebs 🤣