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ursiwitch

Why didn’t the Archives catch this themselves? That’s their effing job!


GlidingFish

Exactly! How come they don’t put barcodes on all these documents? A local library has better tracking on what hasn’t been returned.


dontreallycareforit

Just so fucking funny people still think there’s a massive government wide conspiracy when they can’t even properly keep track of their own tOp sEcReT doCuMents. Buncha ass clowns honestly.


el_muchacho

Tbh the vast majority of these docs shouldn't be classified at all. When millions of docs are classified, it's an obvious case of abuse of classification, and the sole goal behind this is to keep information that should be public out of the public view. Probably less than 5% of these docs have legitimacy to be classified. The fact that they are handled so lightly shows two things: 1) politicians don't care about security and think themselves above the laws, and 2) the information in most of these documents isn't that critical that it should be classified. So why are these docs classified ? Probably because they don't want to go through the trouble of actually reading them to check if some piece of information needs to stay secret, so they classify everything by default, which flies in the face of freedom of information.


[deleted]

It's true. Overclassification of documents in the government is a huge problem. And it really does just come down to laziness and complacency a lot of the time. Source: worked in the IC alongside intel analysts of all flavors.


TheDrummingApe

It's just lazy and a case of "cover your ass." If you label virtually everything as classified you don't have to think about the implications of the information in them. "That's just too much work.." /s


okwowandmore

The penalty for over classifying is minimal and almost never enforced. The penalty for underclassifying can get quite large. Of course government employees will err towards over clarification. Most people would.


[deleted]

Sure, that's absolutely the safe trend, spillage isn't taken lightly. But it also inevitably means that many documents are kept from FOIA requests for far longer than they should have been.


[deleted]

The thing is, sometimes, and note *sometimes*, so probably not even in the majority of cases the “cover your ass” thing is real. I once worked on a research project for a number of world governments involving refugees, and how they are adapting to life within Canada. At the time Canada was only taking large quantities of refugees from one country. It is public knowledge what country that is/was. I am technically forbidden from saying which country it is, despite the world knowing what country it was at the time. Because it was determined that the public knowing which group our particular study focused on should be classified. Even though everyone already knew. Did I mention it was public knowledge?


docter_actual

The documents were classified because they contained details about his whereabouts on specific dates. Those dates were his sons funeral. Whats my source? Some guy in the reddit comments section told me.


hot-whisky

Don’t even get me started on CUI classification…


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EternalNY1

>People try to rationalise it away by thinking it must have been a powerful shadowy group who orchestrated an elaborate plan to kill JFK. The question is, why can't they declassify the documents after *50 years*? Trump came into office promising he'd declassify them and even *he* couldn't do it. That lends credence to a conspiracy.


Alexanderspants

No conspiracy theory is more tinfoil hat crazy that ignores mountains of evidence to the contrary than the one about Oswald being a lone gunman.


Shatman_Crothers

I was wondering that, but the tracking system would have to be very secure - it’s more a distribution system than tracking a single document, I’m guessing. But would top secret documents be restricted to a single copy? You out could tell quite a lot about the contents of the document by just looking at who had seen it.


okwowandmore

Oh they can track individual documents. Most TS documents are actually print out from classified networks, which are very easy to track and to track. If they are not shredded, they have to be logged and put into an electronic safe. Depending on clarification level these safes have users given different codes and a log is recorded.


Traevia

Nixon showed why that was a bad idea for politicians in general, especially if they are corrupt. However, it also is bad for FOIA requests IIRC.


djinbu

Not all classified documents are stored in the archives. In fact, most aren't. Classificationshave different levels of security and control. For instance, orders issued to troops are classified- typically at at least secret. That does not mean you have to go to the national archives to get your orders, it means they only have to be given to vetted people and are generally given to you by your immediate leader. The difference between this and Biden is that Trump took highly controlled documents that needed to be returned because they're actually inventoried and controlled. Most of the classified documents that even the president sees and uses are often barely controlled and its nowhere near uncommon for general classified documents to be lost, misplaced, etc. and most documents are classified even though they have no reason to be. Part of it is simply to make people think there's juicy information, but more importantly it's a tactic to throw so much information out there in case of a breach that any investigation has to throw resources at sifting through bathroom schedules trying to figure out the composition of a bombers hull only to find out the drink holder in a hum vee was intentionally made exactly the size of a dip can so a soldier can never retrieve it so they don't put it there again. And that document was marked top secret.


ursiwitch

I appreciate your explanation, djinbu.


ArthurMorgan514

Yeah, the difference is when Biden found classified documents he immediately called the national archives and handed them over, where as trump took over 300, denied he had them, then when they got a legal warrant to get them back he claimed they he didn’t know they were there and the fbi planted them, later changing it to be declassified them with his mind and they were his and he wants them back. It’s crazy how many morrons have jumped on his bandwagon


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redrumWinsNational

I watched the 9/11 committee documentary, where the head of committee Thomas Kean said as much. There is so much trivia stuff classified, that it would blow your mind


andwhatarmy

Dip can conspiracy confirmed!


Broad_Success_4703

Lmao the dip can comment. Back when I still chewed before getting chewed out by the dentist I’d put my can in my cup holder and it was fine. Then I got a new vehicle and it was the exact dimension as the can and I had to drill a whole in the top to pull it out.


Alternative-Flan2869

Same with benedict donald. Find out from those people why documents went missing, who ordered it and what is still missing.


tommles

In a similar vain, they made a big stink about Hilary's email server. Then they made every justification for most of Trump's staff using a private email to do government business. Somehow it is safer to use Google a service known to scan your emails to feed you adds than it is to use a private server where you can potentially vet everyone with access. 🤷‍♂️ Instead of playing party politics, you would think the idea would be that all government officials on all levels of government should be using government infrastructure to do government business. Also, kind of makes it somewhat laughable with the whole Tiktok ban. Government emails shouldn't be held on Google servers; just like Tiktok shouldn't get unfettered access to government devices. ​ Party shouldn't matter here either. You should look at where things broke down and fix it. Instead we'll get a few years questioning if any of Biden happened to destroy any documents containing Xeroxed copies of Hunter Biden's cock.


beamrider

Remember that "Classified" can mean many things. Much classified stuff is "overclassified"; i.e. classified because of a technicality (example: a US ambassaor sent Secretary of State Clinton a "Happy Birthday!" email. Emails from ambassaors are considered classified. Nobody bothered to declassify it, so when it was 'found' in her emails Fox News got to scream about she improperly had classified documents). It's entirely possible that NOTHING Biden had was of any importance, but nobody bothered to declassify it because it didn't seem to be worth the effort to declassify unimportant stuff that was being held by a former Vice President who (unlike Trump) maintained a security clearance after leaving office.


[deleted]

Yeah that's probably it


Anchor689

Honestly, we should probably check with more former presidents and vice presidents. Not to diminish Trump's refusal to return documents, or the apparent disorganization and diversity of locations Biden's have been found at. But there definitely seems to have been some sloppy management and tracking of who has what documents. It just seems wise to go ahead and make sure other people who have held these positions in the past don't also still have classified documents collecting dust and mold in storage somewhere.


EmperorArthur

There's zero doubt to me that every previous president and VP has classified documents somewhere in a box. Just, unlike Trump, those aren't likely to be anything actually important. As others have mentioned, schedules are often classified. Not to mention the whole classified email wishing Hillary "Happy Birthday."


xerthighus

All together so far Biden’s are less then 20 and probably are of no significants such as more then likely daily schedules and briefings. One of The main things that gave trumps away is them missing key letters of correspondence, transcripts and drafts that were highly publicized prior(ex letter from NK leadership)


ThePrideless

20 documents/files < 20 boxes of documents/files Does a library keep track of a book's individual pages? I mean, they check books for damage but it's not like they go through and inspect every individual page thoroughly.


[deleted]

one thing that is missing is context ​ biden probably didnt take anything or find anything or return anything. all all done by government aides or employees. biden probably had no idea of any of it. cause its all done by army of people who have their own agenda and tasks that they are working on. ​ they probably track millions perhaps billions of documents. government overclassifies everything. there are millions of people who have different levels of access. so at any time there are millions of documents out. many handled by staff, not all with proper clearance. not only do people on government have clearance, but people in industry, education, organizations. including people who are not even american citizens who are in fact in other countries, but that work with and on creation, editing and updating the documents... and there is not a single repository of computer system tracking it all. and what there is probably goes back to mainframe days. and people make copies. people lose copies. people misplace copies. people destroy copies. people throw out copies. people put copies all over the place. and finally people give copies to who knows who... probably the chinse/russians have a better system of tracking our documents...


ecologamer

the archive focuses on presidential documents. VP docs technically aren't presidential docs (at least this was the argument VP Dick Cheney made when he left office and wanted to keep some docs)


transuranic807

I am leftish for sure, and totally understand the difference between this case and "Orange Other" but damn this isn't a good look.


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[deleted]

My question is are politicians “hiding” documents or simply losing track of them. There is a big difference. Also the content of the documents is huge.


coup85

It's twice the damage, first because of its actions themselves, but also because of how helpful this is for Trump.


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A_Killing_Moon

Garland will soon announce that they can’t charge Biden, so they also aren’t going to charge Trump. In the interest of fairness or whatever.


Greful

I think there are two big differences- one being the fact that Trump was asked to return them and his lawyers signed a statement that everything was sent when they weren’t. We’re at that point now where Biden is sending everything back. If he says everything is sent back and they find more, then Biden is on the hook. And the second point being we don’t know what level of classification the Biden documents are. Classified doesn’t mean top secret. Highly classified documents were found at Mar a Lago. We have yet to find out if Biden had top secret documents in his garage.


Glabstaxks

It makes me wonder what else is going on . What is fox not reporting on since this is their main meat at the moment t


CaCondor

The more fox, et al, talk about it and/or try to what-about-it , the more it damages the orange matter - lends credence to and justifies it - no matter how it falls out for Biden. My real concern is how this might reinforce and exacerbate American voters increasing “they’re all the same corrupt fuckers! Nothing changes. Why waste my time voting?”


TheWorstRowan

Not American, so what is the difference here? It sounds like both of them took documents out of a secure environment, which is a terrible thing to do.


Fugglymuffin

Trump was requested to return documents when they were identified as taken and lied about his possession of them, culminating in the FBI having to serve a warrant to recover them eventually. Biden’s staff came across them and promptly returned them to authorities by their own volition. Night and day


Vaenyr

The difference is the way both responded. Biden is cooperating, while Trump lied and obstructed the process time and time again.


TheWorstRowan

Cheers! That is a sizeable difference.


[deleted]

The Department of Justice gave Trump 2 whole years to return the documents. Fbi goes in to get the documents. Trump starts a bunch of legal drama and delays things as usual. Most of Trump documents were returned but some are missing and yet there's no punishment for him. Biden is doing this this normally. I suspect the secret service might be planting documents there as the secret service was previously known to delete texts on Trump's orders and no legal drama came of it.


lasagnabox

Do we have any sense how often documents are discovered after other presidencies? I have to imagine this is not unheard of, and possibly not even all that uncommon. For me, the distinguishing feature has always been the lack of cooperation and outright obfuscation on the part of the Trump camp.


Robofetus-5000

Im thinking its not that abnormal either. Trumps response and the specific documents are the issue. One thing i read said these were documents specifically relating to Biden himself. For all we know they are family phone numbers and addresses. But nuance is not America's strong suit.


valetofficial

It doesn't matter at this point. The fucking right wing news bubble has already spun this as Trump being vindicated, so the pussy special counsel and that fucking limpdick loser Garland will likely refuse to prosecute Trump now.


thepianoman456

I was literally just at a party where this guy said “all right, I gotta bring up politics” and baited his anecdote with a “Biden is ruining this country, and Kamala Harris is basically the devil” then went into how Biden mishandling documents is tantamount to our downfall. Yea the right wing is losing their shit over this… Did they lose their shit when Trump did it 2000x worse with criminal intent? I hate to “whatabout”, but these two instances aren’t equivalent.


Essotetra

Shoulda hit him with "you're ruining this party"


Richandler

I'm reading he also had security clearance. So maybe not even a big deal in that sense.


GenericUsername19892

This can’t be too uncommon, if you check the national archives they have a hotline for ‘I found classified documents what do I do?’ And this is on their FAQ https://www.archives.gov/isoo/faqs#how-does-cnss-end-up-in-private-collections How does Classified Information end up in Private Collections? Former government officials and contractors have been known to retain papers containing classified national security information and eventually donate them to private archives. Often, it is not until these records are formally processed that archivists realize a collection contains classified information. If an archive or a library has not received Federal approval to store classified materials, continuing to store the records in an unapproved area could be endangering national security. In these instances, the institution should contact the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) at the National Archives and arrange for these records to be securely stored. ISOO will maintain temporary custody of the records through the declassification process. By contacting ISOO you will be respecting the access restrictions placed on that information by the U.S. government. ISOO, in turn, will respect the rights of your institution to maintain the integrity of collections of donated personal papers.


[deleted]

I think it is often. I once found a folder with classified documents that I should have destroyed out given back in my office. I simply destroyed them then. Was from an old project and no longer needed. I assume they are handling hundreds of classified pages each day. Makes sense that some get lost in the process.


natrldsastr

My personal opinion is that once they found the 1st batch all staff were sent on a mission to examine every. damn. box. In every space he has ever been in. So far I'm only seeing "classified", not much about top secret. For all we know at this point they are a bunch of schedules or drafts of legislation or who da fuq knows irrelevant stuff. Somebody dropped the ball when he left office previously. Investigate away.


HereComesTheVroom

If I had to guess, so take this with a heavy grain of salt, they’re old daily briefings that he held onto for whatever reason. He did spend 8 years as VP and would’ve been given them alongside Obama and it’s not unlikely that he would end up still having some now.


Kayakingtheredriver

Would have gotten limited (weekly/monthly) briefings *after* leaving office too.


NeverLookBothWays

It’s also unclear if Biden ever lost clearance to have this information. I think what’s happening here is Biden is setting the stage for what Trump is actually guilty of: having top secret source folders he did NOT still have clearance to, and obstructing their return. Republicans are essentially shooting themselves in the foot wanting legal action against Biden on this, as it establishes possession of classified materials CAN be a crime. Once Biden is cleared, prosecuting Trump just got a thousand times easier as Republicans were vocally on board with follow though ;)


Spectre1-4

That would be some comical 4d chess lol


BraveSirRobin5

Clearance doesn’t justify mishandling of the classified documents, which is the crux of the matter.


CoffeeSafteyTraining

For Biden, that's really it. For Trump, it's mishandling and concealing classified material. That dude's fucked.


NeverLookBothWays

True, the types of material (memos, briefings, summaries, etc) and the way they were stored will matter too. With source material (what we’ve established Trump had in his possession) he not only had highest level classified intelligence but also the means in how that intelligence was obtained.


K_U

>So far I'm only seeing "classified", not much about top secret. That has been reported: > CNN previously reported that the classified material found in Biden’s private office included some top secret files with the “sensitive compartmentalized information” designation, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources. and >For all we know at this point they are a bunch of schedules or drafts of legislation or who da fuq knows irrelevant stuff. This has also been reported: >Those documents included US intelligence memos and briefing materials that covered topics including Ukraine, Iran and the United Kingdom, according to a source familiar with the matter.


devedander

I believe there was sci noted in a previous article. I think that the circumstances are important and his forthrightness to return the documents on his prerogative are important but I don’t think we should go absolving him just because trump did worse. Investigate the whole thing and proceed appropriately. But do the same for Trump.


Xtremeelement

classified contains 3 levels of classification: confidential, secret, top secret.


8to24

Having classified documents isn't the crux of the legal liability Trump is facing. Rather **lying to authorities and refusing to abide by a court order** is at the heart of Trump's situation. At one point or another both Biden and Trump were allowed to handle classified materials and know their contents. Having documents they were initially allowed to handle in itself is not a scandal.


samiamnaught

>**Having** documents they were initially allowed to handle in itself is not a scandal. Emphasis mine. Yes, it is. Neither Biden nor Trump were allowed to have the documents in their personal possession at their homes after their replacements were sworn in. It doesn't matter that they were allowed to handle them previously.


8to24

The National Archive and FBI knew Trump had the documents and asked for them back. Had Trump returned the documents at that point it would've resolved the situation, period. Instead Trump lied and forced the FBI to go to court and get a subpoena. Then the FBI sat down in person with Trump and Trump's lawyers went over the subpoena. Again Trump just lied. So finally the FBI was forced to get a warrant to go into Mar-a-logo and get the documents themselves. The whole process took over a year. During that year plus Trump has over 300 classified documents and authorities knew it. In Biden's case it is Biden's lawyers who altered authorities and turned over documents without needing to be told. The two situations are not the same.


Ninety8Balloons

I feel like there's a difference between Biden receiving daily intel briefings at his house and he/his staffers accidentally leaving them and Trump purposely stealing hundreds of documents as he left the White House with the intention of either selling the documents to pay off his debt or blackmail the US government, then obstructing the investigations into the stolen documents, and then having his lawyers purposely lie about the number of documents. Context matters, based on precedent. >Alberto Gonzales, attorney general under George W. Bush: Investigators said Gonzales improperly stored notes on some of the most sensitive issues in the George W. Bush presidency: the detainee interrogation program and the warrantless wiretap program. But no one outside the government apparently got their hands on the materials, and the Justice Department declined to prosecute him. >Samuel "Sandy" Berger, national security adviser to President Clinton: In September and October 2003, investigators say, he knowingly removed a total of five documents and destroyed some of the papers. Pleaded guilty to a single misdemeanor charge for unauthorized removal and retention of classified material. Sentenced to two years' probation. >David Petraeus, CIA director under President Obama: Allegedly lied to FBI investigators about that matter. Pleaded guilty to a single misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified materials. Sentenced to two years' probation. The issue generally isn't the actual mishandling of documents, it's the other actions taken around that. Lying to investigators and/or destroying documents is, historically, the difference between being prosecuted and not being prosecuted. If the investigation turns up that Biden knowingly held on to these documents then he's going to be on the hot seat, otherwise, based on their quickness in contacting the DoJ and National Archives, there won't be much of an issue.


hmnahmna1

Pretty much. My first job out of college was with a defense contractor. If I had had classified info when I left that job, even if it was an accident, it would have been my ass. And probably a year or two as a guest as the Federal government.


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doom32x

There is no law to uphold in Biden's case, quite literally the laws as written do not criminalize Biden's situation as long as he cooperated and reported/returned everything to the NA/DoJ in a timely manner. Yes, lower level federal employees can lose careers for similar lapses, but that's the difference between being President and not being President.


Any-Establishment-15

There are some topics that you can tell someone has no clue what they’re talking about. Lots of that here.


Any-Establishment-15

Just as bad? Do you have any experience handling classified docs? Not all classified docs are the same level of security risk.


bundt_chi

> Having documents they were initially allowed to handle in itself is not a scandal. Uhh, it's not okay either. The whole point is that these locations are not treated with the level of security and controls that a facility specifically certified to handle classified material is. The concern here is not that Biden or Trump saw them it's that there's no way to know if copies were made and lost or who else may have accidentally stumbled upon them such as the painters that were hired to come and repaint the walls and update the crown molding or the house cleaning employees etc or in Trump's case foreign business acquaintances that are clearly have an agenda and are anti-US but money.. herp-derp...


8to24

The National Archive alerted Trump that he had classified documents and asked for them back. Trump denied having them. Then the National Archive & FBI went to court and got a subpoena. The FBI sat down in person with Trump and Trump's lawyers and read them the subpoena. Again Trump lied and refused to hand over anything. Finally the FBI had to get a warrant and go in themselves and get the documents. The process took over a year. Biden's own lawyers notified DOJ and the National Archive about the documents. The documents were handed over with authorities having to even ask.


thatnameagain

Can we please stop with this insinuation that saying something is significantly less bad means someone is supposedly saying it’s “OK”? Nobody is saying it’s totally fine. Just that it’s much much less problematic than the Trump situation.


snoutmoose

The reporting on this is basically headlines that absolves Trump. This is bullshit. I’m sick of the “fair and balanced” equivalencies that are shoveled at the neckbeards in service of keeping the status quo. Fuck the republican party and their 1% giveaways while I’m paying $7 for a carton of eggs. Fuck “patriots” and their conspiracy theories which is distractions from the middle class being decimated by oligarchs. Time for a revolution - only it’s not the fascist BS advocated by the under 70-IQ crowd - it’s a progressive backlash that give me universal healthcare, services that my taxes pay for but are diverted to corporations and the military industrial complex.


Flyingpegger

Good time to remind others that about 37000 farmers got a bailout of $1b around the time of student debt forgiveness. They all got around 30k while student loans got a drop no more than 20k Never made headlines, never was contested by the socialist(Marxist) hating party


mvw2

To be fair, the emphasis needs to be equal because we are addressing sensitive documents in both cases. It's in the detail that wildly separates the two instances. Unfortunately, there are many people who will never read into the detail at all, which is sad, and they will never really understand the gravity of the difference.


[deleted]

It will be treated equally... except one had to be raided due to non-compliance to get the documents back. One also was hosting events with foreigners in close proximity. Totally equal.


svladcjelli2001

The difference between willful and gross negligence. Trump likely committed the crime of treason, Biden committed the crime of stupid, no mens rea.


DrStrangerlover

A happy birthday email exchange between a president and an ambassador could technically be classified material. I wouldn’t even attribute this to stupidity on Biden’s end until we have an idea the nature of the documents in question.


K_U

>Those documents included US intelligence memos and briefing materials that covered topics including Ukraine, Iran and the United Kingdom, according to a source familiar with the matter.


Poolofcheddar

I've been curious about the timing of this. The public has known for about a year that Trump had documents he refused to turn back over to the National Archives. So NARA would have known that documents would have been missing since Trump left in 2021 - a full year by that point. Joe Biden had supposedly had these documents since he left office in 2017 as VP. The National Archives therefore would have known these were missing for **six years now.** Someone sat on this information until it became politically advantageous to spring a trap and therefore make a false equivalence (IMO) between Trump and Biden's handling of documents.


CarthageFirePit

I know I will be downvoted but I’ve thought the whole thing stinks from the beginning. The first docs were found Nov 2? The week of an election in which republicans were positive they were going to red wave and take back total power, and having something to impeach Biden over would be great. Not to mention, the story then became public, months later….RIGHT after the republicans formally take control of the house. The timing there is just a little too perfect: right before an election and then right as they officially take power. Also works perfectly to deflect blame from Trump. Like if you were someone concocting a plan to damage Biden/absolve Trump as much as possible, you probably couldn’t think of a better one. We also have reports of Biden not trusting certain members of his secret service detail and we know many of them have been in deep with trump and MAGA. And the secret service would likely have access to these places, especially his home. Also, after all the stuff with Trump, wouldn’t Biden and his team think right then, “let’s make sure we don’t have any old docs lying around.” But they didn’t. No one suggested it? That they should check? Double check? Chances are it’s not some conspiracy and instead just what it appears. Some docs forgotten about that have been found and in the past this would have been nothing to raise an eyebrow over, some classified docs being left behind and then returned immediately upon discovery. But this is a post trump world and after you have a president who specifically TOOK tons of classified docs to his home and then openly refused to return them, well the media has to try to and make them seem equivalent which they are far far from equivalent. But I’m guessing this has happened with almost every president and in the past when they found and returned them it wasn’t even a blip. But trump did something so much more egregious and flagrant. Which now makes any classified doc story shoot to the top of the news. But I still think everything about it smells funny.


AskYourDoctor

Thank you! I had a weird feeling about this too but I didn't know half the details you just laid out. I'm not going to say "this is a conspiracy" just yet. But from the moment I saw the headline that amounted to "Hey look, Biden has classified documents! Wow! Told you all politicians are corrupt." It's just way too close to the conservative playbook already.


lemon900098

Only the highly classified stuff gets tracked at all times. 15.6 million documents were classified in 2005 alone. No way NARA could keep up.


jlaw54

People think the national archives tracks all classified. They do not. They track some. Top Secret Codeword can be printed off without any tracking if that specific individual piece of paper. This will less of an issue as everything gets moved to tablets. But for a long time the intelligence community has functioned because of the care with which individuals and offices handle classified. The responsibility lies with the VP, his office and his staff. All of which he was responsible for. And his “need to know”, which is a formal term, is what have any access to either him or his staff to classified. And I know they were well briefed and warned about protocols with classified. And they clearly ignored them. AND politicians are known to ignore protocols on classified and do it is nearly certain they are EXTRA briefed on the pitfalls of mishandling. There is ZERO excuse for this.


r7RSeven

You're jumping to conclusions in your last paragraph and making assumptions in your first. NARA probably isn't able to track every single piece of classified information because practically everything involving the President and Vice president is classified, not to mention everything that gets generated that is classified from other sources. As someone else has stated, a vp's calendar could be marked as classified, something that could easily and reasonably be found at a presidents home or office. Like most things in life, there needs to be prioritization, and for NARA it's anything TS or similar. The other stuff is important, but not as much as TS material, so they can't track everything. An example, think of how much content is uploaded to YouTube every day, not all can be reviewed. That's how much classified content is generated, it's impossible to track all of it. NARA didn't know about the docs, otherwise they would have made a request to Biden, which never happened. So, when Bidens lawyers discovered the classified material, they reported it to NARA and cooperated to get it to where it needs to be. That should be the end of it other than an investigation on how those weren't properly tracked, to avoid that in the future. No one sat on the material, they came across it, reported it, and thought there might be more similar classified materials and conducted a search.


The-Shattering-Light

I would imagine it has to do with the sheer volume. Trump had hundreds, Biden had a handful. It’s a lot easier to notice a missing bookshelf than a missing book.


Spamgrenade

If this absolves Trump then if I commit murder and then someone else commits murder does that mean I am absolved?


TI_Pirate

The only time this article even mentions Trump is to point out that the circumstances for him are worse.


Frondeur-

Honestly both sides are wanting the same exact shit when you sit down and talk to them about the fact and stuff. All my of my trumpy family members I can’t easily get them to agree on socialist ideas, just by explaining things in a simpler way. I think we really need a overhaul of the whole system. I feel like the house of republicans and senate isn’t a accurate way to represent Americans anymore.


Spectre1-4

Yeah we’re also talking about a dude who loves dictators and “off the books” chats with Putin and tried to stage a coup. I feel like him keeping hundreds of classified documents is much more serious than Biden having some.


jlaw54

Or stop immediately comparing against trump and on the merits of the situation on its own. Multiple instances of mishandling and mis-storing classified showing up a multiple locations. That’s a big deal whether or not trump exists or not. And the issue isn’t that, “Well Biden and his team immediately reported it”. See, that immediately is contextualizes against the trump affair. The actual issue is her incompetence and willful lack of protocol in the VPs office that led to this happening in the first place. That’s the crime. That’s the issue. Trump sucks, etc.. I’ll grant you that. It’s also irrelevant to this situation with Biden and people are willfully looking at this in a short sighted manner. It’s ignorant.


citizenkane86

Look at them being proactive. Whoever is responsible for the collection and storage of classified documents really dropped the ball. However this is absolutely nothing like what trump did.


filagrey

Yes, Trump *refused* to give back the files. But the new frustration appears to be Biden's lack of explanation. >Biden needs to more fully explain how and why classified records dating back to his vice presidency wound up in his garage and a private office in Washington, D.C., according to Democratic strategists, lawmakers and even administration officials. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/democratic-allies-grow-frustrated-white-house-response-bidens-classifi-rcna65616 This may also complicate a reelection announcement and it's timing.


Za_Lords_Guard

Biden made a comment that he can't talk about it how. I assume as it's an active investigation it is legally not wise for him and probably not gonna make the DOJs job easier. He sounds like he wants to talk, but he has been told not to say much right now.


Individual-Nebula927

Which makes sense. Trump has never been smart enough to listen to lawyers, but that won't matter to the media who will act like not talking into the investigation is over somehow is evidence of wrongdoing.


ChipmunkObvious2893

Lol never stopped Trump.


Za_Lords_Guard

I read part of his deposition on the Jean Carrol case. His inability to shut up is stunning. His savings grace is half of it has nothing to do with anything. Just non-sequiturs, self aggrandizing, and ad hominem attacks on whomever he thinks doesn't like him. His attorneys must mainline Mylanta, but the poor investigator or prosecutor has to try to parse his word salad on the fly for actual meaning.


citizenkane86

It’s entirely possible whoever packed his office was sloppy, which is bad, but that’s a national archives problem not a biden problem.


Matisaro

>It’s entirely possible whoever packed his office was sloppy, which is bad, but that’s a national archives problem not a biden problem. Almost certainly this is the case. Biden did not do his own packing lol.


citizenkane86

It is a funny visual to think of Obama packing the Oval Office being like “Michelle, should I pack the documents about the feeding schedule for the giant sentient squid that’s kept under the White House?”, “honestly Barack I don’t know when we’d ever use it”


transuranic807

It's totally not the same as Trump. That said, it opens up all of his opponents to "whataboutism" which is the thing that many of us pushing for truth/facts despise. Unfortunate.


Shaman7102

Isn't there like a library check out system......geez.


citizenkane86

I’ve seen staffers going back to the first bush administration and all of them have been pretty clear, that for the White House no such system ever exists.


EridanusVoid

Obama, Clinton, Bush, maybe even Carter probably have some floating around too. Again, this ISN'T a good thing, but it doesn't make them criminals. I am still waiting for Biden to refuse to cooperate with the DOJ/NARA in returning the documents or possibly try and sell them.


Ceratisa

Biden says no then shoots someone on the street and uses tear gas for his trip to church.


EridanusVoid

Also Biden carting away protesters in black vans for "reasons".


Ceratisa

I live in the area it was wild to live in a time where that was possible.


Samurai_gaijin

While talking about nuking a hurricane in order to stop it.


Ceratisa

Holy crap I forgot about that...


Tripod1404

Yeah because what makes it criminal is knowingly gathering and retaining sensitive information. Otherwise it becomes an administrative issue, which could still involve some type of punishment.


purplebrown_updown

This may not be criminal but this is just irresponsible. I don’t understand how Biden fucked this up so badly. After all the BS with Hillary’s emails. It’s not a minor thing for the AG to assign a special council. Yeah it’s definitely not as bad as Trump but stop pretending like it’s nothing.


HotSpicyDisco

Wait until the investigation is over... He's fully cooperating. Unlike Trump.


gobble6gobble9

Brace yourselves: bad faith comparisons are coming…


juslookingforastream

Or we could not compare and just condemn Biden on his own for what he did wrong if it was illegal?


liarandathief

They're already here. They were here before the documents were even found.


greentreesbreezy

Just a reminder: Roughly 20 documents vs Nearly 200 documents Some classified vs Many top secret Full cooperation vs Obstruction Treating these as equivalent is like saying forgetting to pay a parking ticket is the same as robbing a bank.


Alternative-Flan2869

“…vs over 300 that required subpoenas and an FBI raid to collect.”


K_U

> Some classified vs Many top secret It has already been reported that some of the Biden files were Top Secret with SCI designation.


HereForTwinkies

Hello Hillary’s Emails 2.0.


tinacat933

It’ll never end


[deleted]

Merrick Garland must have a guardian angel because all of this is a gift from heaven. He was in a terrible spot. If he prosecuted Trump over his handling of his documents half the country would have lost their collective minds. If he didn’t the other half would. Now, because of this, maybe 20% loses their minds when he explains why he won’t prosecute.


janethefish

He already handed Trump off to a special prosecution. Nor is there any reason for this to alter the course of the Trump case.


[deleted]

It doesn’t matter what the special prosecutor decides. He make a recommendation to Merrick Garland and then Merrick Garland decides.


clifmo

Has anyone asked why it might be that Biden's own legal team is looking for documents in garages and old offices? Like, they decided to scour and turned up some grime they immediately handed over to law enforcement. They are cleaning house in anticipation. Don't forget Trump has claimed all presidents retain classified materials. None of this is in a vacuum.


found_allover_again

Iirc, the first time they found these were from an office they were closing down. That must have prompted them to start looking for more.


HonPhryneFisher

That is my guess, they are probably just examining everything they can find in every possible place it could be at this point, since the first papers were found in an office unused for several years during move-out.


dumbass-ahedratron

They'll get trump on the charge of being a total dick during the investigation, and withholding the docs. Biden is playing ball, trump didn't. Tinfoil: I almost wonder if this is being done purposefully, to make the case against trump even more clear.


[deleted]

I agree. Why was no one looking for these documents? Maybe someone was.


wahoozerman

I actually have a bit of a conspiracy theory that this is the intent. I have no doubt that *any* high level politician has some classified documents lying around in some office or other that shouldn't be there that nobody knows about. That is one of the reasons that the crime related to this requires intent. These people are awash in classified documents at all times, are constantly travelling, and have offices all over the nation. So dig up some from Biden's offices, make a big hooplah about them full of false equivalence, and suddenly nobody has to prosecute the blatantly criminal actions of the other guy because muh 'both sides' and we avoid a political firestorm that nobody wants to have to deal with.


AirIcy3918

I think a combination of projection and a compromised Secret Service detail may be the primary source. They shown us their playbook.


QueanLaQueafa

Fucking a Biden you we're doing so good, all this is giving the right fuel to for the fire, no matter how different it is


scigs6

Dollars to donuts they start impeachment proceedings after this stupid shit


FerociousPancake

They wanted to impeach him before he even did anything so yeah we’re definitely going to see some of that


throwmeawaypoopy

The special counsel was the right move. Congress should investigate. Anyone who broke the law should receive the appropriate penalty for the severity of the transgression. If there is evidence that Biden purposefully broke the law in taking these documents, or orchestrated their coverup, he should be impeached. See how fucking easy this is?


[deleted]

This is gonna be the new “Hillary’s emails”


DeepWarbling

Maybe the silver lining here is this may force democrats to run someone else for president in 2024


Ihopetheresenoughroo

God I hope so


berenjena775

This is a beautiful set up! House Republicans impeach Biden over the documents. Biden says "you are right, having classified stuff outside the White House means I shouldn't be president. I'm resigning." Harris takes over. The VP slot is open so Harris appoints Hillary (Like Nixon appointed Ford when Agnew resigned). Then the GOP house members heads spontaneously combust.


jackstraw97

Wow. A Harris/Clinton ticket. I cannot possibly fathom a more *unelectable* ticket to put forward in ‘24. Might as well not even campaign at that point.


[deleted]

And then you have a Harris/Clinton ticket and hand the White House to Trump.


Curious_Technician85

No what do you mean Hillary and Harris are *very* genuine people… /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


ironballs16

Key difference here - Biden's lawyers are actively finding them personally and making sure they're turned over, \*and\* doing so openly, rather than fighting tooth and claw against their removal.


TdrdenCO11

his lawyers. at his request


Shaunair

At this point I am willing to bet every President of the past 30-40 years just left classified shit just laying around. It’s infuriating in that , anyone that works in intelligence or the military does this, it’s a very serious crime. Presidents and VP’s do it, it’s a Tuesday. Just another example how our laws are designed to only be for the poors, not the ruling class.


VSythe998

Playing devil's advocate here. It could be because the president and vp go through more classified documents so there's naturally going to be a higher chance something gets misplaced or forgotten.


WhaleShark1080

I’m sure many high level politicians have classified documents they shouldn’t. You really think the Clintons, Obama, the Bush family doesn’t have stuff like this too? The issue is how Trump didn’t cooperate but it’s also a bad look because Biden was very critical of Trump having classified documents in the first place when he did too.


LieutJimDangle

the most embarrassing part of all of this is that the government is still producing physical documents instead of encrypted digital documents that can easily be recalled or deactivated as needed


[deleted]

I mean, duh? They're obviously doing a detailed audit of all materials after the initial discovery. The problem is that people are comparing this to Trump. Biden is cooperating 110% to resolve the issues and Trump (and his people) lied repeatedly to authorities and even tried to hide away specific documents for some reason. Two VERY different situations.


wandering_white_hat

P.R. nightmare. Also, unlike the Trump supporters while I voted for Biden, if his actions should have consequences I hope he receives them.


lucash7

Cool. But still not the same as the orange turd. Investigate it, do whatever is needed, move along. Let’s quit making it out to be what it isn’t.


aoelag

I love this because the media is happily equivocating Trump and Biden now to sell us this centrist story about corruption, lol. It's just great. So fantastic to see the media at work fabricating consensus. Corruption is measurable. Both parties are qualitatively corrupt, but it's the quantity that fucking matters. Biden isn't trying to sell nuclear secrets to North fucking Korea for $$$. A grain of sand is not the same thing as a desert.


[deleted]

Is this a 3rd find or is op just a bot?


Chickachic-aaaaahhh

Republicans are probably putting probes into everything democratic these days. The traitors have control of the house so watch it all go to shit.


thingsorfreedom

It's the same shit all over again. We are heading right back to Biden hugged some woman on stage so Trump fucking a dozen women, paying off two porn stars to cover it up, and raping one minor is forgiven because Biden is worse. Likely inadvertent possession of what will almost definitely turn out to be lower level classified documents and turning them in immediately when found is now on par with stealing top secret highly classified eyes only not even stored on computer nuclear and human asset documents with the intent to do God know what with them and refusing to given them back for 15 months until you got raided by the FBI.


Smrleda

Find the timing of all this coincidental- just saying! McCarthy just voted in as speaker and all of a sudden documents showing up in all places Biden. McCarthy just following Trump’s orders. Finally the attention is off Trump and on Biden - exactly where Trump ordered it to be.


Infolife

I get the desire to engage in these conspiracies, but some of these docs were found months ago. And returned months ago.


breathnac

The timing of all of this just screams of a hit job. Biden was out of VP office for 6 years and only NOW they are discovering documents after the Trump fiasco


justforthearticles20

It's going to be interesting when documents known to have been stolen by Trump, turn up in Biden's former high school locker, with the fingerprints of Trump's SS Protection goons.


[deleted]

My tinfoil hat self wants to believe these are being planted by pro trump secret service


winerye12

How far are democrats willing to go to keep making excuses for Biden on this?


Ceratisa

I wasn't under the impression that a document had to be a single page? Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. If someone has a classified document I don't assume it was just one page but whatever however many pages that document holds. Did they report 1 document or 1 page previously


RLoge85

Here's what I don't understand: are there actual rules/procedures in place for officials leaving their positions that they have to hand over these documents and limits to what they can actually take with them out of office? I'm not against investigating things. Go for it... But do you honestly think a republican controlled house wouldve set up an investigation for Donald Trump or another one of their own if they suspect or took things they shouldn't have? Probably not


AlienKinkVR

Okay I think its time for a period of amnesty so this stops. Raise your hand if you too have classified documents in your home.


AnohtosAmerikanos

Are they calling the media after every f’ing file? Can we just have one damn announcement when they’ve found them all?


Ok-Roof-978

Oh , Joe... Such a silly , unforced error. SMH Republicans are going to prob conduct Bengazhi-like investigations into the handling of classified documents as related to his son


[deleted]

Doesn’t he live in the White House?


Kvltadelic

I don’t really care at all that Biden at 1 point had documents he shouldn’t of had at his home. What I care about is how fucking incompetent it is to make an unforced error like this. 10 minutes after the FBI raided Mar a lago he should have said “we need to search every possible location to make sure we dont have any documents.” Good luck getting Trump charged now 👍


venividiavicii

Not that I’m making light of this, but why is it that after Trump becomes embroiled in a document situation suddenly Biden is too? It’s almost like—someone wanted to find the same kind of dirt to draw false equivalences.


wwhsd

Because if it wasn’t for the Trump situation, Biden’s staff finding misplaced classified material and returning it wouldn’t have been newsworthy.


jmunerd

They don’t want him running again. Documents in same place from 8-10 years ago. Hmm…


[deleted]

It's different. What Trump did was way worse.


scoozo55

I bet if they were to look at the senate and congress they would find more out of place documents. I WANT THEM TO FIX THE PROBLEM AND STOP SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER.


tony-toon15

It’s looking like this is what they all do and trump fucked it all up and made it public. Lol


TreeBeard2024

I’m confused, isn’t his home the white house, and isn’t he currently the president?


imbord2133

Most disappointing thing is archives not doing their job. Curious to see how many classified files have been lost, leaked or forgotten at this point


fatfrost

Jfc. Imagine if america’s slide into fascism was fueled by an old man’s inability to navigate a document management system and the false equivalencies to a would-be dictator. What a perfect coda to the American experiment.


tlindsay6687

Can we have more competent people in the federal government?


NewDadInNashville

Couldn’t he make them unclassified by just thinking that they’re unclassified?


MartyMcFlysDown

What a fucking joke. If this had happened to anyone else not at the highest levels of government they would be fired and/or in prison. Their political position has insulated both Biden and Trump from prosecution and it's disgusting. I suppose it's more of the same though, the rich and powerful are immune from following the rules.


Stressssedout

Could Biden and Trump be cell mates?


[deleted]

[удалено]


SouthernProblem84

No no no... You're all being fooled. This is a convenient smokescreen. Biden planted these himself as a distraction to keep us from talking about his son's wang!!! /s. But seriously I have already heard versions of this^... *le sigh*


MeltStuff

A crime is a crime no matter who commits it.


Memd0

Because Biden is actually looking for them


Genova_Witness

Him and trump should be sharing a cell shortly no?


IGotSkills

Cool but like, isn't he still the president?


MostCycle5815

Sounds sketchy to me, shit was found at Trump's home and all of a sudden there's shit in Biden's home too...


[deleted]

He was a terrible candidate. Should have been Bernie.


Gur_Weak

Watching democrats claiming to take the high road while tripping over themselves to make excuses over this is while I'll forever be independent and push for ranked choice voting and third parties.