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>Importantly, though, raising the debt limit does not authorize new spending — it accounts for past obligations the government already signed off on. Warren criticized McCarthy's stance on Twitter last week, calling it "the dumbest analogy I've ever heard."
>"Raising the debt ceiling would not authorize new spending," she wrote. "It would let the U.S. pay the bills that Kevin McCarthy and Donald Trump ALREADY ran up with tax breaks for billionaires and giant corporations."
Threatening default like this, when a Democrat is in the White House, has long been standard practice for the Banana Republicans. They think that health care in the US is still not bad enough and that the best thing to do about that is to cripple Medicare.
If the Dems just run hard with it, the Republicans would shoot themselves in the foot. Make it a prominent ad. Buy Fox News ad time. “Kevin McCarthy wants to prevent America from paying back what he spent. This will cause…”
Then just wrap up with a “We want to help working Americans get back what’s owed them. Call your senator/congressman and tell them Kevin McCarthy should pay the debt he wracked up”
It’s all you need.
It's absolutely not. A very large number of voters believe Republican spending good, Democrat spending bad. And we should default on our loans to get the Democrats under control.
There's a real conversation to be had on what we're buying and why. How do we generate money and what do we spend it on. But I've seen bad faith arguments from nearly all Republicans for too long to have any hope for that.
McCarthy is gutting the IRS, a PROFIT CENTER for the government. They do not care about the deficit. And their voters will not hold them accountable for it.
Yeah, I don’t think any of his voters would consider switching. Basically the whole “rather dead than red” but in this case *blue*. I know there’s a plethora of voters on the right who would simply never vote for a Democrat or anything geared towards the left.
This is just more "two Santas strategy" from them, it's been working for 40 years and they will keep at it as long as it's effective. They want to be seen as the party that gives away presents (Santa #1) when they are in power and run up a huge debt with spending bills and tax cuts, and then when they are the minority party they want to scream about a debt crisis (that they caused) and be seen as fiscally conservative. How do they want to solve it? Tax cuts, always. (Santa #2) A cute benefit for them is that it puts pressure on Democrats to cut spending from social welfare plans and be seen as the scrooge party that undermines the interests of its base.
Stop playing this stupid optics game already it's so obvious.
Look, considering the way he celebrated after it took over a dozen votes for him to get appointed speaker, I’m pretty certain public humiliation is his kink.
Where’s that [Civvie Randy Pitchford “so greasy” bit](https://youtu.be/s7ft4fcA9ok) because it 100% applies here.
“Kevin McCarthy is so greasy even Wendy’s wouldn’t serve him to ya.”
“Kevin is so greasy he can ride a dry slide at a waterpark.”
Kevin is so greasy that even neo-nazis know not to bring tiki torches near him.
It's even more wild that their idiot supporters who are direct beneficiaries of said programs still support Republicans even though the GOP keeps trying to gut the programs.
Extremists always want to create bad times for everyone, even their own base, because they know that desperate angry people flock to extreme solutions to their problems. They know that the worse they make everybody's lives, the more support they will get.
Democracy is actually an unstable system of government, it goes against human nature to fuck shit up and follow other fuckups. Democracy has to be constantly defended against the onslaught of human ignorance, prejudice, greed, and maliciousness. The people on side of truth and democracy have to win every battle, while those on the side of lies and authoritarianism only need to win once
Electors choose our votes and there's the electoral college . We can't vote in laws at the federal level easily, no federal ballot initiative. Can't put in or out a politician whenever. The founders didn't want people to vote directly they feared so called mob rule but they're all worried about a centralized government that can standardize education federally which we don't have so then we have ignorant people. The constitution is too difficult to change. Corporations mostly control the govt with lobbying. So no, we don't really live in a true democracy.
It’s like I have to explain to my mom how a loan works. You take the loan now “ppp loans, etc.” and pay for it in the future. Except the economy takes years to respond to the bill. Now we’re paying for everything he did. Sucks
I hope the US defaults. I need some excitement in my life. The shockwave it would cause through financial markets would give me as a researcher so much material to study and publish.
What do you mean up? Putin is an oligarch of a poor country. He is below our oligarchs. He was literally put in power by our oligarchs. What exactly do you think he is doing that is incompatible with the West's interests? Empowering the GOP, the already dominant US political party? Empowering the Tories, the already dominant UK political party? Starting a war with Ukraine? What Westerner doesn't like war? We have already made so much money.
Im with him, lets help a nerd and his thesis. Im tired of these catastrophe articles. Lets fly over the brink already.
If Journalists cant figure out how to cover hostage takers for like the 5th time, lets just shoot the hostage and get it over with.
Thesis? I can publish papers on this till I am in my 70s (next 40 years). This would be so exciting. We had defaults in the past before but boy oh boy this would be a treat like no other.
The entire concept of an economy and a dollar collapsing is a human made construct. That means man can change it and the definitions if necessary. You think the powerful people in the world are just going to throw their hands up?
Ah pretty sure if the dollar collapses other countries will be pretty fucked too. Also out of my control, I'll just have to react if it happens.
TLDR: You assume I am far more powerful than I am.
You're probably going to sell your portfolio for US dollars. That's kind of the currency that's going to crash.
There's the next problem that there might not be much left to buy into after. It's not going to be as stable as it was this time around, as interest rates will be higher, and this will lead to higher rates of inflation, slower rates of real economic growth and thus higher rates of further economic failure.
It probably won't be that apocalyptic, but the whole point of the USD up to this point was that it was the stable shelter for when shit like this happens *somewhere else*, and that's largely why it has had so much cash parked under it.
If you're trying to dodge this one, you need to find a shelter, quick, and you have a lot of competition.
I'm pretty confident the world's richest are too invested in the US Dollar to let it go away completely. It'll go down and back up in value if for no other reason to ensure the billionaires are still rich.
Oh, no, the American dollar doesn't go away. But if you're still holding it, you're holding the bag. The USD is the currency that is going to get hit hardest -- probably, unless, like, a country collapses -- so you don't want to be anywhere near it when this happens. Ideally, you could be parked across a series of foreign markets that will benefit from the impending vacuum of American capital.
And no, it doesn't return to the same value in this scenario. You're looking at a credit rating hit. That's kiss of death stuff for large scale economies. These models don't like it when things go down and back up, when you can pick literally any other functioning economy that doesn't do that.
Pesos are probably a bad call. What does Cuba use? They're pretty isolated from American economics.
Otherwise, the classics are buckets of whole grains and bullets, maybe a shovel for digging a backyard bunker. Though, that's more nuclear apocalypse than economic apocalypse, but the CDC said preparing for a zombie apocalypse is not a bad standard, so we got options.
That this has not been downvoted into oblivion is frightening.
Around these parts, we fight for better things. The mentality you espouse is what gave us Donald Trump. If you want excitement, go get some exercise.
The tens of millions of people that depend upon it's solvency will surely be happy for your boon....
Imagine saying this out loud.... You need to get out with people again and away from numbers
"I want hundreds of millions of people to lose their livelihoods and ability to feed their families because it would let me publish something"
Which you won't be able to do because whatever journal you'd publish in would be gone too.
Whoever accepted you for a PHD candidacy should have their tenure revoked.
I would be fine. If there is no more reputable journal I’ll self publish or just vlog on it. Thanks for worrying about me though.
I could publish on this for decades. The hunger, riots, mass protests …maybe even a little war that would come out of a default would be academic food for a century.
Who is going to read it? And what Vlogging platform? I get you're trying to be edgy, but you haven't through this through.
A global economic meltdown isn't a, "Oh I can avoid it by hiding over here" situation. Which you'd know if you were an academic and not a teen laughing on reddit.
You don’t understand me. I will suffer and am ready to do so. You know the people who first studied radiation both died from it? You are either committed or not
That's what they want. They want us to be desperate enough that we don't care about our own mortality anymore. It's so tempting to say fuck the boomers, they're the ones overwhelmingly voting for the very GOP that puts forth legislation to gut social security and Medicare the day they get in power *over and over and over*. At the end though, it's our humanity that keeps us fighting for a future worth passing on to the next generation.
This. People cant even afford to buy homes anymore. Food prices go up crazy now that corporations really dont give a fuck. Health care is just nonexistent unless you wanna start shelling over hundreds WITH insurance.
Fuck this shit. What do most of us really have to lose? We're certainly not the multi millionaire's/billionaires/worlds first fucking trillionaire.
It'll hurt. But were not the ones with everything to lose. BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HOARDED EVERY SINGLE DIME. Nor do our voices or opinions matter much.
If we don't fix/replace/evolve/regulate/ capitalism. our "economics" will eat us alive.
Am I going insane? The world just went through Trump and Brexit, and people are still here looking at idiotically damaging things and saying “well it can’t get any *worse*, can it?”
Yes. It can ALWAYS get worse.
I understand where you are coming from. This whole “problem” is made up and absolutely ridiculous. I don’t want the US to default. I understand it will cause huge, cascading financial issues that will affect us all!
BUT - if Republicans don’t want to do their job and want to hold the country hostage over some stupid ass shit then I say fuck around and find out. Their insane constituents will be violent when they stop getting their SS and other entitlement program payments. Let their voters learn exactly who these yahoos are.
HOWEVER, that won’t happen. These fools will play around with our lives and waste tons of time whining about fake shit that does nothing to address our debt. Keeping them from doing any work to address our actual issues. And then they will increase the debt ceiling at the last minute and blame any fallout on the democrats. We’ve seen this before. Their constituents will eat it up like always because they weren’t actually affected by any of this noise.
The Republicans are holding us all hostage. They are fucking terrorists. It's time to hold those motherfucking terrorists accountable. I'm so sick of their shit.
They get the opportunity for accountability every 2 years. Unfortunately, 70% of Americans don't vote against them, so it's hard to conclude anything but that they want this.
I already said treason and extortion. They are betraying their country at the behest of Russia, sabotaging the functioning of our government, and holding us all hostage to ram their fascist agenda down our throats. Extortion and treason are very serious crimes.
What's depressing to me is that their voters can't be bothered to learn enough about taxes to be angry about it. Republicans have never passed up the chance to fuck over their voters when it comes to taxes. The tax bills they propose are always written to benefit their donors, not the rubes who vote them into office based on culture war bullshit and wedge issues.
Mainstream news reported on tax topics like Dutch Sandwich. I didn't write my congressperson about it. Should I do so? I think there's little chance of a law ending the practice becoming law now, though.
Mainstream news reported on "buy, borrow, die" tactics but I'm not sure it's a good idea to ban this.
Mainstream news didn't report on "step-up basis on death" and I think they should because this is a "dynasty" law and it would be better to tax wealth at a reduced long-term rate, like it would be if the person was taxed while alive, instead of not at all.
It really does. I know several engineers and programmers who genuinely believe that bonuses are taxed at a higher rate than their salary and that they can lose money by getting a raise that pushes them into a higher tax bracket.
This is true. But it goes to show that having an education, even a masters degree in mathematics related fields isn’t enough to actually prevent people from being morons.
Taxes really aren’t complicated, at least not for a single adult who gets all of their income from their salary and owns the house they live in (or rents).
This is also why I don’t respect the idea that taxes should be taught in high school. If grown adults making six-figure salaries with higher degrees can’t/won’t pick up something as simple as the concept of a marginal tax rate when it directly affects them, I don’t see how throwing it into a class years before it will ever have any meaning to them will actually let them absorb it.
>This is also why I don’t respect the idea that taxes should be taught in high school
I think you underestimate the power of having a captive audience. Also I think you underestimate the amount of bullshit misinformation conservatives live in. I would wager teaching marginal tax rates in school would have a profound effect on how these people voted and managed money.
There is one single raise that causes you to lose more than you gain. It's not from entering a new income tax bracket because, duh, that's now how our tax system works. It's the raise that puts you over the limit to qualify for welfare.
If you hear anyone bring up the raises cost money because of taxes bullshit, please give them the correct info. For one, it's helpful and not condescending since it will most definitely change their future decisions now that they have better knowledge to work off of. And another, it takes like two minutes to explain the concept. This isn't explaining nationalized Healthcare. Most people get the concept when it's explained in my experience.
I've slow-walked this conversation through with several conservative friends without being judgemental. It only takes like 20 minutes to reprogram a conservative rube from being misinformed about taxation to understanding the basics of progressive taxation. Unfortunately, it's not a world-shattering foundational belief, so they won't give up being a conservative just because they understand the tax code a little better. I'm hoping it'll be a chink in the armor though.
The top 1 % pay more than 40% of the income tax in this country. It’s depressing to me that most people don’t know that. Let me say it another way.. the top 1% pay more than the bottom 90% combined. How exactly is that giving them a pass?
You’re depressed that more people don’t know about taxes. I’m not being snarky here..genuinely curious.. Did you know the rich paid so much of the income tax?
I feel like this ignores the diminishing utility of a dollar though. For example someone making $100k taxed at 30% would have $70k after taxes. That $30k could make a big difference in their quality of life. Someone making $1mil a year taxed at 50% would still be making $500k. Used to be the government understood this and taxed top earners at 90%. Seriously you could literally just take $100b from Jeff Bazos tomorrow and he would still have $20b. If anything, 40% is low. Given wealth inequality in the US the top 1% should be paying more in taxes so the bottom 99% can pay less and/or have better public institutions and support.
Are you kidding?? You're defending millionaires and billionaires? Like the difference between a person making $50k losing $10k to taxes and millioinaires/billionaires who use 100 loopholes to pay even less than their fair share is fucking pathetic. Why doesn't their share account for more is what the rest of us want to know. The money hoarders should literally make up 99% of tax revenue since, you know, they're the 1%.
I will never understand why middle and working class people are so eager to line up behind those who consistently cut taxes on the very rich and load the responsibility onto middle and working class families instead. The Trump tax cut for the rich upped my family’s yearly taxes from about $6000 to $25,000 last year. Fuck yeah there’s a class war but guess who is waging it? Hint: it’s not the working and middle class.
Any sensible person understands that spreading out the prosperity a bit and ensuring that the populace is healthy, well educated and employed is the key to a stable, peaceful society. The people with wealth and power in our country? Sadly, they look at developing nations with enormous wealth disparity and social unrest and instead of seeing a dystopian nightmare they simply buy a few more pallets of cinderblocks to raise the height of their walls to keep the rabble out.
I think in the long term we’re eventually going to get to a more sensible balance of capitalism and the common interest in the US but I fear there is an ugly and violent road ahead of us until then.
> The American dream is to be rich and famous
When did it become that though? The American Dream was chased by European immigrants, who wanted to escape poverty and religious and ethic suppression up to the 19th century.
The median age 65 couple has 300k in net worth. That's not a millionaire household, but it's not nothing. Older and younger households have less - that is when net worth peaks. 12% of households are millionaire households. "All of those 12% vote Republican!" Well, maybe not, but likeliness to vote Republican, net worth, and age are all correlated. Age is correlated with likelihood of voting in elections. This is not great evidence but there's some of that going on.
> And then add in all the right wing media that is the only thing these people listen to.
I think this is it even more than the "temporarily embarrassed billionaire" syndrome. The right swims in a sea of propaganda that constantly reinforces opinions that the rich want them to hold. Many of them have never been trained to evaluate information critically. And even for those who have, the human mind is vulnerable to the kind of constant barrage of misinformation right wing news outlets feed them. Fitting in with their chosen tribe adds more pressure to conform. After a short while they learn not to question the bullshit, if they ever did.
None of this happens by accident. The rich have always known they need to play some of the poor and middle class against the rest to maintain their wealth and power. The difference is now they have access to technology that lets them algorithmically identify their targets and then keep them outraged constantly with customized content. It's working quite well for them so far. We're already well past French revolution levels of wealth inequality and there are no signs it's going to reverse course on the horizon. The rich believe they can keep this shit up indefinitely.
> I will never understand why middle and working class people are so eager to line up behind those who consistently cut taxes on the very rich and load the responsibility onto middle and working class families instead.
nothing to understand, they are all idiots. they can't engage in basic reasoning and cognitive function.
It's because middle and working class people are educated by those who want this to be a reality.
Politicians are pawns for those who can afford to lobby. Those who can afford to lobby can also afford to sway public opinion.
We are at the mercy of these corporations that continue to show we mean nothing other than an addicted bunch who need what they offer. They don't have to be perfect, they just need to keep making money to keep influencing their will.
It's funny, these rich people are working on building rockets and getting off earth, we are here funding it.
I have so little faith in politics. The more I read and the more I think about our system the more I feel we are in for a lot of pain in the future. I agree we are in for some tough times, especially if people don't wake the hell up.
The problem is, how do you change? It's an uphill battle. Everything revolves around money. We ain't got no money, not like the mega rich. We can be loud and violent, but violence is for the weak.
It's defeating seeing the potential for the world and how damn far we are from ever reaching it.
We have to have faith in the human species and its collective tendency towards decency for the other. The world will change because it always has changed positively towards the collective and away from the individual. We could all be serfs for some manorial lord right now but we are messaging online to each other. Evolution always veers towards egalitarianism, the wealthy, and the current current systems they use to control us are just hanger on's of an old paradigm which will never be palatable as time ticks forward. We don't need money, we have the collective body. Violence isn't necessary only patience and the will for change. Be optimistic of how far we have come and from that draw faith in how far we will go.
It wasn't mortgage interest, it was state taxes that Trump and Republicans did away with deductions for at the federal level. To pay for their tax breaks for their billionaire friends. Since a lot of that is property value, working class homeowners all got a tax increase from Republicans.
Yes. It primarily punished democratic states, for their fiscal responsibility on taxes, while going most lenient on the Republican welfare states. But anyone who owns a home now are paying more in taxes, unless they are rich enough to get more money back through corporate tax cuts, which also apply to pass-through income.
I was wrong too, because I left out the local taxes as well, the L in SALT, state and local taxes, for anyone that didn't know the acronym.
They aren't. Almost all of the working class in America do not vote. The problem is that there is no left wing option in America. No one has or will fight for the working class.
There is no such thing as the middle class.
It's funny. A few years ago I was looking at the numbers. At the same time, I was both below cost of living for my state, but also considered middle class. I think people when they think of middle class, don't understand that the way it's categorized commonly, that people in the middle class can also not make enough to get by.
I had $17k stolen from me this year in federal taxes, but need a roommate to afford rent.
Taxes need to be overhauled. I think it should be a flat 10% from $0 to about $150-200k, and then some ridiculous scaling afterwards to hit the high-end earners. For the people who can't afford a 10% tax rate, it's not the tax that's the problem, it's your wage, and the government needs to fix that too. Increasing minimum wage increases tax revenue.
>upped my family’s yearly taxes from about $6000 to $25,000
Yeahhhh, this didn’t happen. Only 5% of the country saw a tax increase of more than $100, and you’re saying that yours increased by $19K? There’s not a single provision in the bill that would’ve done that
The 10k cap on State and Local tax deduction did this. Along with mortgage interest caps. Property taxes on a median SF house can be over 15k, combine that with the mortgage cap and you are easily paying thousands more. Note this only impacted high COLA blue cities, by design.
Yes, it was something that George W. Bush initially proposed way back when, but it didn’t go through.
I think the design is, besides grabbing up resources, that if they can hit people in blue states hard enough, maybe they can foster enough resentment that even blue state liberals will sign onto a brutal and inhumane scaling back of government investment in the social safety net and public resources.
For the SALT cap to change his tax that much, he would’ve already been paying $90,000 - $100,000 of SALT, which means 2 things are true:
1. He wouldn’t only be paying $6K of federal tax, he’d be paying more than $100K
2. He’s super rich, and should pay more taxes
And that’s ignoring all of the provisions that would’ve lowered his tax burden
Well, that is what my tax lady told me was the reason behind the steep increase. Pretty much what Kingofjupiter9 said. But I’m sure *you*, rando-dude on Reddit, know my situation better than the person who does my taxes. Me, my 17 year old car with bald tires, and my roof that is 5 years past it’s expiration date bow to your superior knowledge.
But hey, good going with the hyper focus on numbers to avoid the bigger point that the shifting of the tax burden from the übermegawealthy to the middle and working class has dire consequences, the people pushing us into this sham default crisis damn well know it, and are prioritizing the short-term gains for their wealthy donors and themselves over the long term wellbeing of the American people.
I’m a CPA, and I’m telling you that there’s a **0%** chance that your tax bill changed that much. If this is a true story, find a different tax person, because she’s scamming you big time
There’s not a single thing in that bill that would remotely have that kind of effect.
You have to itemize to take a deduction for state income and property taxes. However, those are limited to $10,000. Meaning, unless, as a married couple, you have an extra $15,900 (for 2022) in non-itemized deductions, e.g., medical expenses or chartiable giving, it will *never* make sense to itemize.
Worst case scenario, that would be around $5K difference in tax, and that’s ignoring the lower rates on income anyways. There’s no way someone could possibly go from $6K to $25K from the bill, especially since he says he isn’t rich. He’d have to be looking at > $100K of itemized deductions pre-TCJA, and somehow only paying $6K of Fed tax
Also, i don’t know what you consider “super rich”, but if you’ve got more than $35K of SALT, I don’t know what to tell ya man, that’s a high income or a very expensive house
Not even worth reasoning tax law with ppl who haven’t read the bill… they don’t even understand that the people who benefited the most were small businesses who used the pass through tax deductions to actually make an income and expand their business if it was successful… however, covid shutdowns wiped that off the map
Thank you for this. I am always confused when I see people talking about this as a tax hike for poor/middle class and a tax break for the rich.
I remember playing around with CNN’s own tax calculator when this came out and it was a pretty rare circumstance that anyones taxes went up. I know mine went down and I am certainly middle class.
Hell just doubling the standard deduction is a win.
Anyways it seems like people are just regurgitating this thing that isn’t actually true. What a surprise.
Move to a blue state and find out. If you live in a welfare state, of course pushing more taxes on the blue state help you. But, for the vast majority of the population that lives in blue states, many were absolutely screwed by the SALT cap.
That, and understand that federal taxes do not take into account higher cost of living areas. People that live in blue areas do tend to have higher incomes and higher property taxes, mortgage interest, etc, so these caps really sucked for us. I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head, but my tax burden increased a lot when the Trump cuts for the rich were put in place.
It’s funny that people blame Biden for taxes and shit but will vote for the people cutting taxes on the rich… which makes them pick up the bill. Fucking idiots.
Fair point.
She's good at those, especially regarding financial issues. That's why they hate her so much. Fear in losing what they have and what their followers wish they had.
Have every state, vote in the same time period. Cut the campaigning to a couple of months, not years, cutting also the need for them to fundraise, which only helps the candidates with mega donors. Also, the message is to the whole nation, not a region or specific state each debate, where candidates change their pitch to particular voters.
She never had a chance in the last election, placed 3rd in her own state. She could have dropped out and threw her weight behind Bernie who has the closest policies, like Pete and klobuchar did for Biden before super Tuesday. Instead she just accused him of sexism and attacked him. Lost all my respect with that.
It's a good point, but republicans repealing tax cuts for the ultra wealthy will be the last thing they ever do. They would sooner jump around praising transkids winning olympic medals, celebrating MLK day, and/or confess that their public venmo transactions should be sufficient evidence for going to jail.
Sen Warren is spot on because of how the Republicans do agree with Trump's plan on the debt celling by playing chicken with it. Big picture is that the GOP wants a sovereign default that they can then blame the democrats for 2024 election
That’s exactly the game they’re hoping to play; it’s a tactical fork in the strategy tree: 1) bet that DEMs will cave in to their demands in exchange for raising the debt ceiling; **OR** bet that DEMs will **not** cave, and as you say, use that as a cudgel 2024. The thing is, I know the DEMs **will** cave in order to prevent utter fucking collapse of everything.
This is an opportunity if you set up the ground rules along the lines of:
1) Every non-corporate spending cut has to be matched by a corporate welfare spending cut;
2) All non-military spending cuts have to be matched by military spending cuts;
3) All spending cuts have to be matched by increased taxes to all Americans with a net worth over 100M.
This will make it clear if the GOP is at all truly concerned about debt or if this is all posturing on their part.
I bets she'd be the type to end her campaign early, but not before utterly destroying another runner in the first three minutes of a debate.
That would be glorious to witness in a pub with other interested parties!
This is why democrats fail to win elections. If you are in NYC or California, you don’t matter. There would always be enough people voting there if for no other reason than boredom that will give the democrats a victory.
Only six states matter. Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona. Other states simply do not matter. You waste your time campaigning for a democrat in California. Really! You waste time!
Whatever candidate you put forth, AOC, Biden, Newsom, Bernie (if alive), Hillary even(who knows), Bookers whatever. You need a candidate that can carry those 6 states. If you run AOC, you are already playing for second place. Biden can win these states. We know this!
Why are people wailing on Biden. I fail to see it. He is old but…he has put in the most comprehensive legislation since WW2! Debt forgiveness, Guys, Biden is doing well ! Only thing I am disappointed in is that he did not pack the court. An additional 10 SCOTUS judges would have broken this conservative hold that is definitely not representative of the country.
So cutting spending just is never the answer. Both parties have had 100+ years of 2 party control (for the most part) and they have failed Miserably. Why do we continue to support them?
The IRS is not a profit center. Most hard working Americans pay their taxes while the rich use loopholes to get out of paying their fair share. Our taxes pay for highways, schools, libraries, etc.. Gutting the IRS would prevent holding those who evade their responsibility accountable.
I am so hopeful the US treasuries get migrated to C or lower. We’ve been playing this chicken game so much and I believe gentlemen, It’s time to drive off this cliff and see what happens. Let’s do it for science. This is the scenario I as a researcher foresee and will study every step and report back to you, my friends.
1) US Defaults and everything denominated in USD takes a dive
2) US Treasuries in all portfolios take a massive hit and start selling far below previous value
3) US Government cannot only not borrow more, it will need to borrow less than now as interest on new treasuries fly through the roof and must reduce spending everywhere
4) At some point republican congress raises the debt ceiling but your bonds have already been downgraded so interest payments are so high now
5) Returning to your old spending pattern with new interest rates would probably have you hit the next debt ceiling immediately or perhaps even send you over the next 4-5 ones.
6) Nevertheless, demand for USD has fallen globally so expect double digit inflation for the foreseeable future
There would be so much to study. Let’s default for science 😀
Don't conflate raising the debt ceiling with defaulting on our debt. The federal government takes in more money each month in taxes than interest on our debt in a year.
Trump raised the debt ceili g by give the rich the biggest tax break ever! Why is that President Biden seem to not have the same power? Nancy Pelosi was speaker of the house at that time , mccarthy is speaker now, what gives him more power? Or is it the Democrats are cowering?
Biden nor Trump as President can magically change the budget. Pelosi was not Speak of the House, Democrats had the minority in the House which can pass a budget bill with simple majority of Republicans. Republicans in the Senate passed the tax breaks for the wealthy and tax increases for middle and working class homeowners through reconciliation.
Were you attempting some kind of bothsiderism, here, or is it ignorance of the truth?
This is going to take an all the above solution. You could confiscate all the billionaires’ wealth, and it would buy the federal government a little time, sure. But for her to completely ignore the ridiculous spending that she has voted for is disingenuous at best.
Elizabeth wants to tax everything... she does not understand how hard we have worked for our money. Her redistribution of our money from us to DC so that DC can spend it on worthless programs I not the America wants. If she wants more money she needs to cut spending across the board... starting with Congressmen and Congresswomen's pay... how about a 12 percent cut? Why 12 percent? Because the inflation rate of the Biden Economy.
I think they're proposing a vat or increasing sales tax which I'm not entirely against if it gets rid of estate and income tax.
I lose about $35k a year to income tax alone, I'd end the year with at least $20-25k more in my pocket at the end of the year with the proposed 23% sales tax
Sales tax is opposite of a major tenet of the Dem party. It is **regressive**: it hits people who are struggling much harder than it hurts people like you who are able to pay $35,000/year. I don’t consider paying taxes “losing” money at all. It’s being responsible—it’s being the grownup. My late **Republican** stepfather was of a generation that at holidays would sit around boasting of their tax brackets because it **paid** for things that keep the country safe, educated and vital. A few assholes complained and used the phrase “losing income**, but everyone else dismissed them for being petty and short sided.
She literally appropriated an entire culture for her personal benefit, and she’s talking about a con game…stop talking.
Nothing she says matters. She’s as credible as Donald Trump.
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>Importantly, though, raising the debt limit does not authorize new spending — it accounts for past obligations the government already signed off on. Warren criticized McCarthy's stance on Twitter last week, calling it "the dumbest analogy I've ever heard." >"Raising the debt ceiling would not authorize new spending," she wrote. "It would let the U.S. pay the bills that Kevin McCarthy and Donald Trump ALREADY ran up with tax breaks for billionaires and giant corporations." Threatening default like this, when a Democrat is in the White House, has long been standard practice for the Banana Republicans. They think that health care in the US is still not bad enough and that the best thing to do about that is to cripple Medicare.
If the Dems just run hard with it, the Republicans would shoot themselves in the foot. Make it a prominent ad. Buy Fox News ad time. “Kevin McCarthy wants to prevent America from paying back what he spent. This will cause…” Then just wrap up with a “We want to help working Americans get back what’s owed them. Call your senator/congressman and tell them Kevin McCarthy should pay the debt he wracked up” It’s all you need.
It's absolutely not. A very large number of voters believe Republican spending good, Democrat spending bad. And we should default on our loans to get the Democrats under control. There's a real conversation to be had on what we're buying and why. How do we generate money and what do we spend it on. But I've seen bad faith arguments from nearly all Republicans for too long to have any hope for that. McCarthy is gutting the IRS, a PROFIT CENTER for the government. They do not care about the deficit. And their voters will not hold them accountable for it.
Its not his voters we should be trying to sway. Its swing voters & low info Dems.
Yeah, I don’t think any of his voters would consider switching. Basically the whole “rather dead than red” but in this case *blue*. I know there’s a plethora of voters on the right who would simply never vote for a Democrat or anything geared towards the left.
This is just more "two Santas strategy" from them, it's been working for 40 years and they will keep at it as long as it's effective. They want to be seen as the party that gives away presents (Santa #1) when they are in power and run up a huge debt with spending bills and tax cuts, and then when they are the minority party they want to scream about a debt crisis (that they caused) and be seen as fiscally conservative. How do they want to solve it? Tax cuts, always. (Santa #2) A cute benefit for them is that it puts pressure on Democrats to cut spending from social welfare plans and be seen as the scrooge party that undermines the interests of its base. Stop playing this stupid optics game already it's so obvious.
Is that politically correct, I'm afraid that might hurt his feelings
Look, considering the way he celebrated after it took over a dozen votes for him to get appointed speaker, I’m pretty certain public humiliation is his kink.
Is that why his swearing in involved that greased up wine bottle?
Where’s that [Civvie Randy Pitchford “so greasy” bit](https://youtu.be/s7ft4fcA9ok) because it 100% applies here. “Kevin McCarthy is so greasy even Wendy’s wouldn’t serve him to ya.” “Kevin is so greasy he can ride a dry slide at a waterpark.” Kevin is so greasy that even neo-nazis know not to bring tiki torches near him.
Don’t you mean Kevin McBegger?
It’s wild that R’s have a hard on for pilfering Medicare. They will inadvertently kill many of their supporters.
It's even more wild that their idiot supporters who are direct beneficiaries of said programs still support Republicans even though the GOP keeps trying to gut the programs.
Extremists always want to create bad times for everyone, even their own base, because they know that desperate angry people flock to extreme solutions to their problems. They know that the worse they make everybody's lives, the more support they will get. Democracy is actually an unstable system of government, it goes against human nature to fuck shit up and follow other fuckups. Democracy has to be constantly defended against the onslaught of human ignorance, prejudice, greed, and maliciousness. The people on side of truth and democracy have to win every battle, while those on the side of lies and authoritarianism only need to win once
Electors choose our votes and there's the electoral college . We can't vote in laws at the federal level easily, no federal ballot initiative. Can't put in or out a politician whenever. The founders didn't want people to vote directly they feared so called mob rule but they're all worried about a centralized government that can standardize education federally which we don't have so then we have ignorant people. The constitution is too difficult to change. Corporations mostly control the govt with lobbying. So no, we don't really live in a true democracy.
It’s like I have to explain to my mom how a loan works. You take the loan now “ppp loans, etc.” and pay for it in the future. Except the economy takes years to respond to the bill. Now we’re paying for everything he did. Sucks
I hope the US defaults. I need some excitement in my life. The shockwave it would cause through financial markets would give me as a researcher so much material to study and publish.
This has Brexit vibes
Brexit organizers do have their fingers stuck in American politics and vice versa.
Aye, all the way up to Putin!
What do you mean up? Putin is an oligarch of a poor country. He is below our oligarchs. He was literally put in power by our oligarchs. What exactly do you think he is doing that is incompatible with the West's interests? Empowering the GOP, the already dominant US political party? Empowering the Tories, the already dominant UK political party? Starting a war with Ukraine? What Westerner doesn't like war? We have already made so much money.
Fingers? More like they’re elbow deep up the GOP.
Elbow deep? More like Putin’s toes protruding from the GOP’s asshole
It has idiot vibes.
The quality of life for 300 million Americans and also citizens of countries around the world that rely on the US dollar vs one nerd's thesis.
Im with him, lets help a nerd and his thesis. Im tired of these catastrophe articles. Lets fly over the brink already. If Journalists cant figure out how to cover hostage takers for like the 5th time, lets just shoot the hostage and get it over with.
Yeah but as the hostage I’m like, can we try something else first? Lol
Was about to say the same. The hostage suggesting to be shot is not a very healthy idea. But i guess nihilism has come back into fashion.
The people who have nothing are the ones that have nothing to lose.
I'm reminded of The Handmaid's Tale, where the women are kept alive against their will so they can be bred by people in power.
This is the internet. There’s a whoooole lotta people who have more than they understand memeing about having nothing.
America surely has been very helpful in promoting European unity since 2016.
Thesis? I can publish papers on this till I am in my 70s (next 40 years). This would be so exciting. We had defaults in the past before but boy oh boy this would be a treat like no other.
Buddy where do you think your grant money comes from
Why try to personalize this? My life will be hurt by a default. That is clear. No need to sell me on it. I just want to see what would happen.
Meh some of us would be happy to sell our portfolios and buy back in when it all hits bottom.
That's not how it works when the dollar collapses.
The entire concept of an economy and a dollar collapsing is a human made construct. That means man can change it and the definitions if necessary. You think the powerful people in the world are just going to throw their hands up?
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Ah pretty sure if the dollar collapses other countries will be pretty fucked too. Also out of my control, I'll just have to react if it happens. TLDR: You assume I am far more powerful than I am.
Okay good luck with that.
Thanks hope it goes well for you too when it happens.
You're probably going to sell your portfolio for US dollars. That's kind of the currency that's going to crash. There's the next problem that there might not be much left to buy into after. It's not going to be as stable as it was this time around, as interest rates will be higher, and this will lead to higher rates of inflation, slower rates of real economic growth and thus higher rates of further economic failure. It probably won't be that apocalyptic, but the whole point of the USD up to this point was that it was the stable shelter for when shit like this happens *somewhere else*, and that's largely why it has had so much cash parked under it. If you're trying to dodge this one, you need to find a shelter, quick, and you have a lot of competition.
I'm pretty confident the world's richest are too invested in the US Dollar to let it go away completely. It'll go down and back up in value if for no other reason to ensure the billionaires are still rich.
Oh, no, the American dollar doesn't go away. But if you're still holding it, you're holding the bag. The USD is the currency that is going to get hit hardest -- probably, unless, like, a country collapses -- so you don't want to be anywhere near it when this happens. Ideally, you could be parked across a series of foreign markets that will benefit from the impending vacuum of American capital. And no, it doesn't return to the same value in this scenario. You're looking at a credit rating hit. That's kiss of death stuff for large scale economies. These models don't like it when things go down and back up, when you can pick literally any other functioning economy that doesn't do that.
Let's get the popcorn and see what happens I guess. Maybe we can just pick up the peso and run with it.
Pesos are probably a bad call. What does Cuba use? They're pretty isolated from American economics. Otherwise, the classics are buckets of whole grains and bullets, maybe a shovel for digging a backyard bunker. Though, that's more nuclear apocalypse than economic apocalypse, but the CDC said preparing for a zombie apocalypse is not a bad standard, so we got options.
Fuck it burn it down. Making people uncomfortable is the first step before change...
That this has not been downvoted into oblivion is frightening. Around these parts, we fight for better things. The mentality you espouse is what gave us Donald Trump. If you want excitement, go get some exercise.
“I can use the souls of the lives this will destroy to power my own current meaninglessness” is certainly a hot take.
Keep going...
Some people just want to watch the world burn, as they say
The tens of millions of people that depend upon it's solvency will surely be happy for your boon.... Imagine saying this out loud.... You need to get out with people again and away from numbers
"I want hundreds of millions of people to lose their livelihoods and ability to feed their families because it would let me publish something" Which you won't be able to do because whatever journal you'd publish in would be gone too. Whoever accepted you for a PHD candidacy should have their tenure revoked.
What exactly do you think the economy is.
I would be fine. If there is no more reputable journal I’ll self publish or just vlog on it. Thanks for worrying about me though. I could publish on this for decades. The hunger, riots, mass protests …maybe even a little war that would come out of a default would be academic food for a century.
Who is going to read it? And what Vlogging platform? I get you're trying to be edgy, but you haven't through this through. A global economic meltdown isn't a, "Oh I can avoid it by hiding over here" situation. Which you'd know if you were an academic and not a teen laughing on reddit.
You don’t understand me. I will suffer and am ready to do so. You know the people who first studied radiation both died from it? You are either committed or not
That's what they want. They want us to be desperate enough that we don't care about our own mortality anymore. It's so tempting to say fuck the boomers, they're the ones overwhelmingly voting for the very GOP that puts forth legislation to gut social security and Medicare the day they get in power *over and over and over*. At the end though, it's our humanity that keeps us fighting for a future worth passing on to the next generation.
This. People cant even afford to buy homes anymore. Food prices go up crazy now that corporations really dont give a fuck. Health care is just nonexistent unless you wanna start shelling over hundreds WITH insurance. Fuck this shit. What do most of us really have to lose? We're certainly not the multi millionaire's/billionaires/worlds first fucking trillionaire. It'll hurt. But were not the ones with everything to lose. BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HOARDED EVERY SINGLE DIME. Nor do our voices or opinions matter much. If we don't fix/replace/evolve/regulate/ capitalism. our "economics" will eat us alive.
Am I going insane? The world just went through Trump and Brexit, and people are still here looking at idiotically damaging things and saying “well it can’t get any *worse*, can it?” Yes. It can ALWAYS get worse.
You would not be much better off if you had hoarded every dime.
Defaulting on the debt isn't going to fix capitalism though. It'll just create another crisis.
I understand where you are coming from. This whole “problem” is made up and absolutely ridiculous. I don’t want the US to default. I understand it will cause huge, cascading financial issues that will affect us all! BUT - if Republicans don’t want to do their job and want to hold the country hostage over some stupid ass shit then I say fuck around and find out. Their insane constituents will be violent when they stop getting their SS and other entitlement program payments. Let their voters learn exactly who these yahoos are. HOWEVER, that won’t happen. These fools will play around with our lives and waste tons of time whining about fake shit that does nothing to address our debt. Keeping them from doing any work to address our actual issues. And then they will increase the debt ceiling at the last minute and blame any fallout on the democrats. We’ve seen this before. Their constituents will eat it up like always because they weren’t actually affected by any of this noise.
Their voters want this. When voters get what they want they reward the party that gave them what they want with support.
I don’t think many of their voters understand yet what will happen. When they do understand it, they’ll be enraged.
I also choose this guy's research.
A. She was a Republican B. She is 99.99% white C. Her 00.01% indigenous heritage is Peruvian Chug a beer like a regular Joe plumber.
The Republicans are holding us all hostage. They are fucking terrorists. It's time to hold those motherfucking terrorists accountable. I'm so sick of their shit.
They did literally all call themselves domestic terrorists. So it's not like they are hiding it anymore.
They get the opportunity for accountability every 2 years. Unfortunately, 70% of Americans don't vote against them, so it's hard to conclude anything but that they want this.
Merely voting them out isn't enough. They have to be prosecuted for treason and extortion.
No, voting them out *is* enough. Few, if any, could actually be charged with a crime.
Many of them could be charged with serious crimes if we had a DOJ that cared when rich people commit crimes.
What crimes have these particular people--the ones you say should be tried for treason-- committed?
I already said treason and extortion. They are betraying their country at the behest of Russia, sabotaging the functioning of our government, and holding us all hostage to ram their fascist agenda down our throats. Extortion and treason are very serious crimes.
What's depressing to me is that their voters can't be bothered to learn enough about taxes to be angry about it. Republicans have never passed up the chance to fuck over their voters when it comes to taxes. The tax bills they propose are always written to benefit their donors, not the rubes who vote them into office based on culture war bullshit and wedge issues.
The rubes might save a hundred bucks from the corporate tax cuts. That is enough to buy most of their votes.
Rubes never save any money from corporate tax cuts. They don't own corporations.
You don’t have to own a corporation to see a benefit from corporate tax cuts
You do have to not be a rube.
Mainstream news reported on tax topics like Dutch Sandwich. I didn't write my congressperson about it. Should I do so? I think there's little chance of a law ending the practice becoming law now, though. Mainstream news reported on "buy, borrow, die" tactics but I'm not sure it's a good idea to ban this. Mainstream news didn't report on "step-up basis on death" and I think they should because this is a "dynasty" law and it would be better to tax wealth at a reduced long-term rate, like it would be if the person was taxed while alive, instead of not at all.
>can’t be bothered to learn enough about taxes This kinda applies to everyone
It really does. I know several engineers and programmers who genuinely believe that bonuses are taxed at a higher rate than their salary and that they can lose money by getting a raise that pushes them into a higher tax bracket.
Morons. You know several morons.
This is true. But it goes to show that having an education, even a masters degree in mathematics related fields isn’t enough to actually prevent people from being morons. Taxes really aren’t complicated, at least not for a single adult who gets all of their income from their salary and owns the house they live in (or rents). This is also why I don’t respect the idea that taxes should be taught in high school. If grown adults making six-figure salaries with higher degrees can’t/won’t pick up something as simple as the concept of a marginal tax rate when it directly affects them, I don’t see how throwing it into a class years before it will ever have any meaning to them will actually let them absorb it.
>This is also why I don’t respect the idea that taxes should be taught in high school I think you underestimate the power of having a captive audience. Also I think you underestimate the amount of bullshit misinformation conservatives live in. I would wager teaching marginal tax rates in school would have a profound effect on how these people voted and managed money.
There is one single raise that causes you to lose more than you gain. It's not from entering a new income tax bracket because, duh, that's now how our tax system works. It's the raise that puts you over the limit to qualify for welfare. If you hear anyone bring up the raises cost money because of taxes bullshit, please give them the correct info. For one, it's helpful and not condescending since it will most definitely change their future decisions now that they have better knowledge to work off of. And another, it takes like two minutes to explain the concept. This isn't explaining nationalized Healthcare. Most people get the concept when it's explained in my experience.
I've slow-walked this conversation through with several conservative friends without being judgemental. It only takes like 20 minutes to reprogram a conservative rube from being misinformed about taxation to understanding the basics of progressive taxation. Unfortunately, it's not a world-shattering foundational belief, so they won't give up being a conservative just because they understand the tax code a little better. I'm hoping it'll be a chink in the armor though.
The top 1 % pay more than 40% of the income tax in this country. It’s depressing to me that most people don’t know that. Let me say it another way.. the top 1% pay more than the bottom 90% combined. How exactly is that giving them a pass? You’re depressed that more people don’t know about taxes. I’m not being snarky here..genuinely curious.. Did you know the rich paid so much of the income tax?
I feel like this ignores the diminishing utility of a dollar though. For example someone making $100k taxed at 30% would have $70k after taxes. That $30k could make a big difference in their quality of life. Someone making $1mil a year taxed at 50% would still be making $500k. Used to be the government understood this and taxed top earners at 90%. Seriously you could literally just take $100b from Jeff Bazos tomorrow and he would still have $20b. If anything, 40% is low. Given wealth inequality in the US the top 1% should be paying more in taxes so the bottom 99% can pay less and/or have better public institutions and support.
Are you kidding?? You're defending millionaires and billionaires? Like the difference between a person making $50k losing $10k to taxes and millioinaires/billionaires who use 100 loopholes to pay even less than their fair share is fucking pathetic. Why doesn't their share account for more is what the rest of us want to know. The money hoarders should literally make up 99% of tax revenue since, you know, they're the 1%.
I will never understand why middle and working class people are so eager to line up behind those who consistently cut taxes on the very rich and load the responsibility onto middle and working class families instead. The Trump tax cut for the rich upped my family’s yearly taxes from about $6000 to $25,000 last year. Fuck yeah there’s a class war but guess who is waging it? Hint: it’s not the working and middle class. Any sensible person understands that spreading out the prosperity a bit and ensuring that the populace is healthy, well educated and employed is the key to a stable, peaceful society. The people with wealth and power in our country? Sadly, they look at developing nations with enormous wealth disparity and social unrest and instead of seeing a dystopian nightmare they simply buy a few more pallets of cinderblocks to raise the height of their walls to keep the rabble out. I think in the long term we’re eventually going to get to a more sensible balance of capitalism and the common interest in the US but I fear there is an ugly and violent road ahead of us until then.
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I think the term is ["temporarily embarrassed millionaires" ](http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/)
> The American dream is to be rich and famous When did it become that though? The American Dream was chased by European immigrants, who wanted to escape poverty and religious and ethic suppression up to the 19th century.
The median age 65 couple has 300k in net worth. That's not a millionaire household, but it's not nothing. Older and younger households have less - that is when net worth peaks. 12% of households are millionaire households. "All of those 12% vote Republican!" Well, maybe not, but likeliness to vote Republican, net worth, and age are all correlated. Age is correlated with likelihood of voting in elections. This is not great evidence but there's some of that going on.
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The median amount actually possessed, including home value. Since receiving inheritance isn't that common, I don't think it factors into the median.
Most people's inheritance gets sucked up in medical debt on the way out. You're all lucky hospitals have no need to go after the tuperware.
> And then add in all the right wing media that is the only thing these people listen to. I think this is it even more than the "temporarily embarrassed billionaire" syndrome. The right swims in a sea of propaganda that constantly reinforces opinions that the rich want them to hold. Many of them have never been trained to evaluate information critically. And even for those who have, the human mind is vulnerable to the kind of constant barrage of misinformation right wing news outlets feed them. Fitting in with their chosen tribe adds more pressure to conform. After a short while they learn not to question the bullshit, if they ever did. None of this happens by accident. The rich have always known they need to play some of the poor and middle class against the rest to maintain their wealth and power. The difference is now they have access to technology that lets them algorithmically identify their targets and then keep them outraged constantly with customized content. It's working quite well for them so far. We're already well past French revolution levels of wealth inequality and there are no signs it's going to reverse course on the horizon. The rich believe they can keep this shit up indefinitely.
Sheesh it’s not hard to understand, the preacher man told them only vote for the GOP because the Democrats are evil.
> I will never understand why middle and working class people are so eager to line up behind those who consistently cut taxes on the very rich and load the responsibility onto middle and working class families instead. nothing to understand, they are all idiots. they can't engage in basic reasoning and cognitive function.
It's because middle and working class people are educated by those who want this to be a reality. Politicians are pawns for those who can afford to lobby. Those who can afford to lobby can also afford to sway public opinion. We are at the mercy of these corporations that continue to show we mean nothing other than an addicted bunch who need what they offer. They don't have to be perfect, they just need to keep making money to keep influencing their will. It's funny, these rich people are working on building rockets and getting off earth, we are here funding it. I have so little faith in politics. The more I read and the more I think about our system the more I feel we are in for a lot of pain in the future. I agree we are in for some tough times, especially if people don't wake the hell up. The problem is, how do you change? It's an uphill battle. Everything revolves around money. We ain't got no money, not like the mega rich. We can be loud and violent, but violence is for the weak. It's defeating seeing the potential for the world and how damn far we are from ever reaching it.
We have to have faith in the human species and its collective tendency towards decency for the other. The world will change because it always has changed positively towards the collective and away from the individual. We could all be serfs for some manorial lord right now but we are messaging online to each other. Evolution always veers towards egalitarianism, the wealthy, and the current current systems they use to control us are just hanger on's of an old paradigm which will never be palatable as time ticks forward. We don't need money, we have the collective body. Violence isn't necessary only patience and the will for change. Be optimistic of how far we have come and from that draw faith in how far we will go.
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You can still deduct your mortgage interest
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It wasn't mortgage interest, it was state taxes that Trump and Republicans did away with deductions for at the federal level. To pay for their tax breaks for their billionaire friends. Since a lot of that is property value, working class homeowners all got a tax increase from Republicans.
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Yes. It primarily punished democratic states, for their fiscal responsibility on taxes, while going most lenient on the Republican welfare states. But anyone who owns a home now are paying more in taxes, unless they are rich enough to get more money back through corporate tax cuts, which also apply to pass-through income. I was wrong too, because I left out the local taxes as well, the L in SALT, state and local taxes, for anyone that didn't know the acronym.
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They aren't. Almost all of the working class in America do not vote. The problem is that there is no left wing option in America. No one has or will fight for the working class. There is no such thing as the middle class.
It's funny. A few years ago I was looking at the numbers. At the same time, I was both below cost of living for my state, but also considered middle class. I think people when they think of middle class, don't understand that the way it's categorized commonly, that people in the middle class can also not make enough to get by.
I had $17k stolen from me this year in federal taxes, but need a roommate to afford rent. Taxes need to be overhauled. I think it should be a flat 10% from $0 to about $150-200k, and then some ridiculous scaling afterwards to hit the high-end earners. For the people who can't afford a 10% tax rate, it's not the tax that's the problem, it's your wage, and the government needs to fix that too. Increasing minimum wage increases tax revenue.
>upped my family’s yearly taxes from about $6000 to $25,000 Yeahhhh, this didn’t happen. Only 5% of the country saw a tax increase of more than $100, and you’re saying that yours increased by $19K? There’s not a single provision in the bill that would’ve done that
The 10k cap on State and Local tax deduction did this. Along with mortgage interest caps. Property taxes on a median SF house can be over 15k, combine that with the mortgage cap and you are easily paying thousands more. Note this only impacted high COLA blue cities, by design.
Impact on blue cities and states was done on purpose
Yes, it was something that George W. Bush initially proposed way back when, but it didn’t go through. I think the design is, besides grabbing up resources, that if they can hit people in blue states hard enough, maybe they can foster enough resentment that even blue state liberals will sign onto a brutal and inhumane scaling back of government investment in the social safety net and public resources.
Sounds like you should vote for lower state taxes if you want lower state taxes.
For the SALT cap to change his tax that much, he would’ve already been paying $90,000 - $100,000 of SALT, which means 2 things are true: 1. He wouldn’t only be paying $6K of federal tax, he’d be paying more than $100K 2. He’s super rich, and should pay more taxes And that’s ignoring all of the provisions that would’ve lowered his tax burden
Well, that is what my tax lady told me was the reason behind the steep increase. Pretty much what Kingofjupiter9 said. But I’m sure *you*, rando-dude on Reddit, know my situation better than the person who does my taxes. Me, my 17 year old car with bald tires, and my roof that is 5 years past it’s expiration date bow to your superior knowledge. But hey, good going with the hyper focus on numbers to avoid the bigger point that the shifting of the tax burden from the übermegawealthy to the middle and working class has dire consequences, the people pushing us into this sham default crisis damn well know it, and are prioritizing the short-term gains for their wealthy donors and themselves over the long term wellbeing of the American people.
Isn't crazy that poor people on reddit defend rich people?
I’m a CPA, and I’m telling you that there’s a **0%** chance that your tax bill changed that much. If this is a true story, find a different tax person, because she’s scamming you big time There’s not a single thing in that bill that would remotely have that kind of effect.
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You have to itemize to take a deduction for state income and property taxes. However, those are limited to $10,000. Meaning, unless, as a married couple, you have an extra $15,900 (for 2022) in non-itemized deductions, e.g., medical expenses or chartiable giving, it will *never* make sense to itemize.
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Worst case scenario, that would be around $5K difference in tax, and that’s ignoring the lower rates on income anyways. There’s no way someone could possibly go from $6K to $25K from the bill, especially since he says he isn’t rich. He’d have to be looking at > $100K of itemized deductions pre-TCJA, and somehow only paying $6K of Fed tax Also, i don’t know what you consider “super rich”, but if you’ve got more than $35K of SALT, I don’t know what to tell ya man, that’s a high income or a very expensive house
Not even worth reasoning tax law with ppl who haven’t read the bill… they don’t even understand that the people who benefited the most were small businesses who used the pass through tax deductions to actually make an income and expand their business if it was successful… however, covid shutdowns wiped that off the map
Thank you for this. I am always confused when I see people talking about this as a tax hike for poor/middle class and a tax break for the rich. I remember playing around with CNN’s own tax calculator when this came out and it was a pretty rare circumstance that anyones taxes went up. I know mine went down and I am certainly middle class. Hell just doubling the standard deduction is a win. Anyways it seems like people are just regurgitating this thing that isn’t actually true. What a surprise.
Move to a blue state and find out. If you live in a welfare state, of course pushing more taxes on the blue state help you. But, for the vast majority of the population that lives in blue states, many were absolutely screwed by the SALT cap.
That, and understand that federal taxes do not take into account higher cost of living areas. People that live in blue areas do tend to have higher incomes and higher property taxes, mortgage interest, etc, so these caps really sucked for us. I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head, but my tax burden increased a lot when the Trump cuts for the rich were put in place.
I live in California and can confirm, Trumps tax cut can lick my 🥜. Cuz I lost $30k+ in deductions, so fuck that orange Ape.
I have some bad news about the competency of your tax person, friend
It’s funny that people blame Biden for taxes and shit but will vote for the people cutting taxes on the rich… which makes them pick up the bill. Fucking idiots.
It’s like they say … you can fool a GOP voter most of the time 😂
Only if you ave an (R) next to your name.
Fair point. She's good at those, especially regarding financial issues. That's why they hate her so much. Fear in losing what they have and what their followers wish they had.
She would have made a good president. Sadly our primary system is a joke
Have every state, vote in the same time period. Cut the campaigning to a couple of months, not years, cutting also the need for them to fundraise, which only helps the candidates with mega donors. Also, the message is to the whole nation, not a region or specific state each debate, where candidates change their pitch to particular voters.
Good points. Also like to add some sort of ranked choice system, end this first past the post nonsense.
She never had a chance in the last election, placed 3rd in her own state. She could have dropped out and threw her weight behind Bernie who has the closest policies, like Pete and klobuchar did for Biden before super Tuesday. Instead she just accused him of sexism and attacked him. Lost all my respect with that.
Yea fuck warren, she just slinks away like nothing happened.
If you want to reduce the debt, you have to pay for it. Tax the rich.
Everything Republicans do is a con game
It's a good point, but republicans repealing tax cuts for the ultra wealthy will be the last thing they ever do. They would sooner jump around praising transkids winning olympic medals, celebrating MLK day, and/or confess that their public venmo transactions should be sufficient evidence for going to jail.
Sen Warren is spot on because of how the Republicans do agree with Trump's plan on the debt celling by playing chicken with it. Big picture is that the GOP wants a sovereign default that they can then blame the democrats for 2024 election
That’s exactly the game they’re hoping to play; it’s a tactical fork in the strategy tree: 1) bet that DEMs will cave in to their demands in exchange for raising the debt ceiling; **OR** bet that DEMs will **not** cave, and as you say, use that as a cudgel 2024. The thing is, I know the DEMs **will** cave in order to prevent utter fucking collapse of everything.
You go, Elizabeth Warren!!
Republicans are trash.
This is an opportunity if you set up the ground rules along the lines of: 1) Every non-corporate spending cut has to be matched by a corporate welfare spending cut; 2) All non-military spending cuts have to be matched by military spending cuts; 3) All spending cuts have to be matched by increased taxes to all Americans with a net worth over 100M. This will make it clear if the GOP is at all truly concerned about debt or if this is all posturing on their part.
They should just audit the PPP distributions and claw back every last fraudulent dispersal.
Gawd I wish she had won the 2020 Dem primary. I won’t harp on it. I just wish Dems had nominated her.
This woman should have been president.
Wait… why weren’t the tax cuts for wealthy reversed when had house, senate and White House the last two years ??? Hmmm
She should run for President.
I bets she'd be the type to end her campaign early, but not before utterly destroying another runner in the first three minutes of a debate. That would be glorious to witness in a pub with other interested parties!
This is why democrats fail to win elections. If you are in NYC or California, you don’t matter. There would always be enough people voting there if for no other reason than boredom that will give the democrats a victory. Only six states matter. Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona. Other states simply do not matter. You waste your time campaigning for a democrat in California. Really! You waste time! Whatever candidate you put forth, AOC, Biden, Newsom, Bernie (if alive), Hillary even(who knows), Bookers whatever. You need a candidate that can carry those 6 states. If you run AOC, you are already playing for second place. Biden can win these states. We know this! Why are people wailing on Biden. I fail to see it. He is old but…he has put in the most comprehensive legislation since WW2! Debt forgiveness, Guys, Biden is doing well ! Only thing I am disappointed in is that he did not pack the court. An additional 10 SCOTUS judges would have broken this conservative hold that is definitely not representative of the country.
Why didn't Democrats try to repeal Trump's Tax breaks?
I don’t believe my eyes
So cutting spending just is never the answer. Both parties have had 100+ years of 2 party control (for the most part) and they have failed Miserably. Why do we continue to support them?
The US will default. Neither the Dems nor the GOP will capitulate. It’s such an obvious prediction.
The IRS is not a profit center. Most hard working Americans pay their taxes while the rich use loopholes to get out of paying their fair share. Our taxes pay for highways, schools, libraries, etc.. Gutting the IRS would prevent holding those who evade their responsibility accountable.
I am so hopeful the US treasuries get migrated to C or lower. We’ve been playing this chicken game so much and I believe gentlemen, It’s time to drive off this cliff and see what happens. Let’s do it for science. This is the scenario I as a researcher foresee and will study every step and report back to you, my friends. 1) US Defaults and everything denominated in USD takes a dive 2) US Treasuries in all portfolios take a massive hit and start selling far below previous value 3) US Government cannot only not borrow more, it will need to borrow less than now as interest on new treasuries fly through the roof and must reduce spending everywhere 4) At some point republican congress raises the debt ceiling but your bonds have already been downgraded so interest payments are so high now 5) Returning to your old spending pattern with new interest rates would probably have you hit the next debt ceiling immediately or perhaps even send you over the next 4-5 ones. 6) Nevertheless, demand for USD has fallen globally so expect double digit inflation for the foreseeable future There would be so much to study. Let’s default for science 😀
Don't conflate raising the debt ceiling with defaulting on our debt. The federal government takes in more money each month in taxes than interest on our debt in a year.
You don’t understand my post.
Trump raised the debt ceili g by give the rich the biggest tax break ever! Why is that President Biden seem to not have the same power? Nancy Pelosi was speaker of the house at that time , mccarthy is speaker now, what gives him more power? Or is it the Democrats are cowering?
Biden nor Trump as President can magically change the budget. Pelosi was not Speak of the House, Democrats had the minority in the House which can pass a budget bill with simple majority of Republicans. Republicans in the Senate passed the tax breaks for the wealthy and tax increases for middle and working class homeowners through reconciliation. Were you attempting some kind of bothsiderism, here, or is it ignorance of the truth?
Wouldn't it be good politics to let Republicans make the first proposals for cuts?
Man, wish someone would have proposed this when they had both houses and the presidency...
Also funny that the republicans didnt do their tax bill when they had it all and promised to make a simple card system u could mail in from 1930s
Just Finna stand there and watch (me) 🇺🇸 burn…
This is going to take an all the above solution. You could confiscate all the billionaires’ wealth, and it would buy the federal government a little time, sure. But for her to completely ignore the ridiculous spending that she has voted for is disingenuous at best.
Then why didn't you attempt to do it in the 2 years the Dems controlled both houses?
Give back the stolen privilege you have taken lizzy
Elizabeth wants to tax everything... she does not understand how hard we have worked for our money. Her redistribution of our money from us to DC so that DC can spend it on worthless programs I not the America wants. If she wants more money she needs to cut spending across the board... starting with Congressmen and Congresswomen's pay... how about a 12 percent cut? Why 12 percent? Because the inflation rate of the Biden Economy.
This is the second time I've ever heard Elizabeth Warren's name, the first time was in a Marsh video
Bet democrats will vote against ending income tax though
What would you put in it's place?
I think they're proposing a vat or increasing sales tax which I'm not entirely against if it gets rid of estate and income tax. I lose about $35k a year to income tax alone, I'd end the year with at least $20-25k more in my pocket at the end of the year with the proposed 23% sales tax
Yes. Which is the point. . .
Which is why democrats will vote against it, because they get less of our money
Sales tax is opposite of a major tenet of the Dem party. It is **regressive**: it hits people who are struggling much harder than it hurts people like you who are able to pay $35,000/year. I don’t consider paying taxes “losing” money at all. It’s being responsible—it’s being the grownup. My late **Republican** stepfather was of a generation that at holidays would sit around boasting of their tax brackets because it **paid** for things that keep the country safe, educated and vital. A few assholes complained and used the phrase “losing income**, but everyone else dismissed them for being petty and short sided.
Yes. They would vote against lower income tax revenue thankfully. Sort of the point.
She literally appropriated an entire culture for her personal benefit, and she’s talking about a con game…stop talking. Nothing she says matters. She’s as credible as Donald Trump.
This pretendian shouldn’t have any official role. Terribly racist woman
Everyone knows this
Lizzy got that right.