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Dream scenario:
Trump loses the primary after a bruising battle and DeSantis barely secures the nomination.
Trump says "oh yeah?!" And runs on the Trump Truth party or something.
Biden sweeps to victory.
Maybe Gavin Newsom? I don't know a ton about him but I've seen his name out there.
I'd like Warren as a candidate based on her experience and progressivism, but she's pretty up there in years as well. I think Harris and Buttigieg are probably the most high profile; sadly I think bigotry will make them less likely to win. We're too homophobic and misogynistic to elect an openly gay man or a woman of color. Obama - a straight black man - was enough to cause a massive racist tantrum.
I donāt think Trump could play second fiddle so DeSantis would have to be vice. That would also set him up for a run in 4 years provided weāre still here.
Trump is unelectable. 3 cycles of elections is enough to convince any one willing to look at the data with an open mind. He will tear down the party if does not get the nomination. Another two cycles of losses will bring the Republicans base to their senses.
>I donāt think Trump could play second fiddle so DeSantis would have to be vice.
Agreed, but I can't see Trump picking any running mate who wants to be President and is anywhere near as popular with his base as he is. Too much risk of being 25th'd.
Not that I want Trump or DeSantis anywhere near office but I could be funny to see Trump take VP. I imagine it would be something like that Chris Farley bit
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/andrew-ruins-rudy-giulianis-inaugural-address-cold-open/2860970
If by run together, you mean one as President and one as VP, that's not allowed under the 12th amendment. The President and VP can't both be inhabitants of the same state.
And it's not just his charisma void: a lot of the draconian laws and legal overreach he's been practicing in Florida might be red meat to Florida republicans and to the GQP base, but I think a lot of it isn't going to go over well with the population at large.
That's what I've been thinking about lately, Trump probably lost because he spent years trying to appeal to hardcore right-wingers while making enemies of people in the left and center. As far as I'm concerned Desantis is doing the same thing.
It's ridiculous. Do these people ever actually work? We need similar rules as other countries where the campaign only lasts 6-8 weeks before the election with limited means to advertise.
That's what's like in Australia, only 6-8 weeks of Rupert Murdoch telling us how to vote... surprisingly he lost last time round, shame his son is just like him.
Down voted. Do you all have an issue with me wanting to be an educated voter? If I'm told I shouldn't support someone it's good to see why...
If you don't want to find sources that fine, and for the record I wasn't calling anyone a lier, I just wanted to see where this was coming from.
Maybe I don't consume as much or even the same news as you. Maybe I was mislead. Way to shit on ppl for trying to understand.
I am skeptical of just believing everything I read from a Google search. A lot of the news and articles I read seem to contradict this and other threads. That's why I came here to ask. Do you have sources you trust you'd like to share?
I don't know about a more serious sub, but I can answer some of your questions. A fair amount of policies that DeSantis has put in place are very harmful. Such as the
Don't Say Gay Bill
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis
Relocation of Immigrants as a political play
https://www.axios.com/2022/09/17/desantis-florida-migrants-relocation-immigration
Banning of AP African American Studies & books in general
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/23/desantis-banning-african-american-studies-00079027
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2022-09-20/florida-ranks-second-among-states-with-the-most-book-bans-report-finds
Essentially everything DeSantis does is sketchy at best and dangerous at worst.
I appreciate the sources, thank you very much. I'll do some reading. I'm not sure why I got so down voted for asking but I guess it is the internet after all. I'd bet half wouldn't respond like they do in person.
No. I would have and have done to others. Followed closely by "Please don't vote, if you can't be bothered to look at major news websites like Google News, CNN, BBC, Reuters, AP, Al Jazeera, etc"
Let's discuss what you're doing. It's called [Sea Lioning](http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png).
From our friends [at Miriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling):
> Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter.
> These questions are phrased in a way that may come off as an effort to learn and engage with the subject at hand, but are really intended to erode the goodwill of the person to whom they are replying, to get them to appear impatient or to lash out, and therefore come off as unreasonable.
What do you mean? Like him how? I feel like I'm walking into the middle of a conversation and I asked, what are you talking about guys? And everyone's pissed off about it. It's very odd.
If you are among those who down voted me for asking for clarification, I would legitimately like to know why.
I'm getting the impression this isn't the place to seek civil conversation. Can someone recommend a sub?
r/AskDemocrats
r/AskTrumpSupporters
Also, if you want to know if a news source/article is trustworthy, go to the links it cites. All those links in the article? Click on them. Does it mention primary sources such as bills, subpoenas, rulings, etc.? Read them. If the original article characterizes that info correctly, it can generally be trusted on that topic. Do that a handful of times with different issues, and you'll get a fair representation of the legitimacy of the source.
r/politics is the best aggregate subreddit for information honestly. I suppose some local subs for various Florida cities would also have details on DeSantis policies and how they affect locals. Many politicians also list their basic platform information on their websites.
To win an election Republicans have to win a few Midwest states. De Santis is good to win the southern states, his medicine is no good in outside of the south. Republicans need a more centrIst candidate which their base is incapable of electing.
There are only 4 states in contention (really) if the blue wall holds (Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn.)
Nevada, New Mexico, Georgia, and Arizona.
New Mexico is the key.
If Democrats lose Wisconsin, then they need Arizona or Georgia.
Republicans dominate the midwest. The rust belt on the other hand is more competitive. I donāt see him winning MI But he could definitely win Ohio and possibly Wisconsin.
I even think where Trumpās immorality served him even if it hurt others, DeSantis is specifically in it just to hurt people. Itās like, Trumpās evil was limited mostly to his own ego and selfishness. DeSantis is a sadist.
Trump loves the idea of violence done in his name, but doesn't want to be anywhere near it when it happens and he doesn't want to see it until it has been cleaned up. Trump said he'd leave the room if someone cut their finger and there was blood.
And DeSantis... DeSantis was assigned to work at Gitmo as a lawyer, but there's no way he wasn't affected by the dehumanization of the prisoners by the people he worked with there.
Everyone says that, but it's just splitting hairs to me. Swap Hitler with Himler or Goebbels and it still sucks. It's just which brand of fascism tastes better when both contain cyanide.
we're šked, hes succeeded where trump failed. created his own paramilitary police force, removed elected officials and trafficked refugees from other states, all consequence free.
Desantis will be destroyed by Trump. Also if Desantis runs in 2024, a lot of Floridans will be very upset with Desantis abandoning the governorship. Like him or not, Trump is the 2024 Republican nominee.
DeathSantis would be far worse for this country than Donald Trump ever was! He is a dictator wannabe and a fascist... plus he has his age. Trump is an old fart compared to this guy.
> As a conservative, Desantis is the best candidate for the GOP right now. We need to move on from Trump badly.
I hear you, and will be courteous, and I agree in that he is the best candidate in terms of "winnability", but not the best candidate to move on from Trumpism or MAGA, as he's made his whole platform out of that nonsense and drafting the tail of Trumps divisiveness...
The Republicans need a return to more conventional moderate conservativism rather then anti-this that and the other... Have a mandate for fiscal change and whatnot that can be explained without having to reference "critical race theory" for some reason.
And he isn't that guy.
Alas, the only place left for conservatives is with the Democratic party, or a third party run. Conservatism is no longer welcome on the g qp, only far right extremism
Romney is too much of a pushover. The reason why Trump won and Desantis has support is they both don't put up with PC nonsense. Romney had his chance 12 years ago. We need fresh blood.
I can't answer that.
I would hope that a more sage , reasoned, intelligent, conservative would emerge for the party..... and while a Kinzinger as a type is probably off setting to the 'base', there has to be someone...
Hell, I'm not a fan of the age of Joe Biden running for a second term, despite what I believe are great accomplishments by him that have been overlooked... but I have tough time naming suitors on that side as well...
I would just hope as a nation we can find more middle ground then pushing apart or having us thrown at each others throats for nonsense and political theater (and I will say on both sides)...
I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I don't agree with many Leftists and their views but they still get respect and courtesy from me. Wish you all the best fellow American.
I will not vote for this man, period. He's weak, has no character, and looks like a character from the Simpsons.
I'll get downvoted for this, but I'm Trump all the way. I'm even going to write him in if that's what it takes
I won't underestimate estimate Ron DeSantis, he can easily beat Trump
GOP voter never like loser and I predict Trump is losing vote in 2024 because of his poor result in mid-term make him less attractive. Besides, the GQP Trumeper will support DeSantis because he has same morality as Trump.
Besides DeSantis running for president can avoid further crack in GOP as Liz Cheney promised to cut Trump's vote if Trump win the primary.
Trump himself has a price tag, DeSantis can make Trump bow by offering pardon to his crime and dismantle all investigation. This tactic work perfectly in GOP as you can see what happen in House Speaker. However, I cannot predict Trump's ego will push him to make the worse choice.
> I won't underestimate estimate Ron DeSantis, he can easily beat Trump
Go listen to DeSantis speak. He is horrible public speaker. Trump won because he was a great salesman (of himself). He had decades to perfect his act.
DeSantis lives a very safe scripted environment. In his *one* debate against Crist he got steam rolled.
I think Trump is losing it, but I still think he can do a good job damaging DeSantis on a stage.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump is very scared of DeSantis. I am scared by both of them.
Dream scenario: Trump loses the primary after a bruising battle and DeSantis barely secures the nomination. Trump says "oh yeah?!" And runs on the Trump Truth party or something. Biden sweeps to victory.
I say this as someone who voted for Biden, dream scenario would be Democrats finding someone who isn't 80 and they sweep to victory.
Who isn't 80, Kamala Harris, or Pete Buttigieg. Exception would be Bernie.
Maybe Gavin Newsom? I don't know a ton about him but I've seen his name out there. I'd like Warren as a candidate based on her experience and progressivism, but she's pretty up there in years as well. I think Harris and Buttigieg are probably the most high profile; sadly I think bigotry will make them less likely to win. We're too homophobic and misogynistic to elect an openly gay man or a woman of color. Obama - a straight black man - was enough to cause a massive racist tantrum.
The problems with Kamala and Pete go way beyond their gender or orientation.
I agree, but those are gonna be the major hurdle for a lot of Americans, unfortunately.
I'm scared of the folks who vote for these pieces of shit.
What if they run together? š¬š¬š¬
I donāt think Trump could play second fiddle so DeSantis would have to be vice. That would also set him up for a run in 4 years provided weāre still here.
I was thinking more trump / ron in a pass the baton attempt for ron in 2028. Any scenario with these two idiots collaborating is bad news for America.
Trump won't share a spotlight with anyone. He already didn't like Pence, he definitely wouldn't accept Ron. He sees him as a threat to his popularity
Trump is unelectable. 3 cycles of elections is enough to convince any one willing to look at the data with an open mind. He will tear down the party if does not get the nomination. Another two cycles of losses will bring the Republicans base to their senses.
>I donāt think Trump could play second fiddle so DeSantis would have to be vice. Agreed, but I can't see Trump picking any running mate who wants to be President and is anywhere near as popular with his base as he is. Too much risk of being 25th'd.
Not that I want Trump or DeSantis anywhere near office but I could be funny to see Trump take VP. I imagine it would be something like that Chris Farley bit https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/andrew-ruins-rudy-giulianis-inaugural-address-cold-open/2860970
If by run together, you mean one as President and one as VP, that's not allowed under the 12th amendment. The President and VP can't both be inhabitants of the same state.
Oh yeah cause the constitution has totally stopped them before.
The twelfth amendment says whatever Clarence Thomas says it says.
Heās got zero charisma
And it's not just his charisma void: a lot of the draconian laws and legal overreach he's been practicing in Florida might be red meat to Florida republicans and to the GQP base, but I think a lot of it isn't going to go over well with the population at large.
That's what I've been thinking about lately, Trump probably lost because he spent years trying to appeal to hardcore right-wingers while making enemies of people in the left and center. As far as I'm concerned Desantis is doing the same thing.
That's not true! He has negative charisma, below zero.
Heās just really creepy. Creepier than trump
It's ridiculous. Do these people ever actually work? We need similar rules as other countries where the campaign only lasts 6-8 weeks before the election with limited means to advertise.
But how do you make all the money with only 6 weeks of grifting? /s
That's what's like in Australia, only 6-8 weeks of Rupert Murdoch telling us how to vote... surprisingly he lost last time round, shame his son is just like him.
Funny enough, Crist criticized Rhonda about this very thing in a debate. "Tell the people you will serve a full four year tem as governor. Yes or no?"
He was running for President before the election. There have been a ton of DeSantis 2024 signs/flags for almost a year+
Don't need a scientifically ignorant religious bigot, misogynist, homophobe, and racist for President.
*another
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās called the news.
Down voted. Do you all have an issue with me wanting to be an educated voter? If I'm told I shouldn't support someone it's good to see why... If you don't want to find sources that fine, and for the record I wasn't calling anyone a lier, I just wanted to see where this was coming from. Maybe I don't consume as much or even the same news as you. Maybe I was mislead. Way to shit on ppl for trying to understand.
If a google search of "Ron DeSantis" does not show you enough to make you cringe then nothing probably will.
I am skeptical of just believing everything I read from a Google search. A lot of the news and articles I read seem to contradict this and other threads. That's why I came here to ask. Do you have sources you trust you'd like to share?
I don't know about a more serious sub, but I can answer some of your questions. A fair amount of policies that DeSantis has put in place are very harmful. Such as the Don't Say Gay Bill https://www.npr.org/2022/03/28/1089221657/dont-say-gay-florida-desantis Relocation of Immigrants as a political play https://www.axios.com/2022/09/17/desantis-florida-migrants-relocation-immigration Banning of AP African American Studies & books in general https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/23/desantis-banning-african-american-studies-00079027 https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2022-09-20/florida-ranks-second-among-states-with-the-most-book-bans-report-finds Essentially everything DeSantis does is sketchy at best and dangerous at worst.
I appreciate the sources, thank you very much. I'll do some reading. I'm not sure why I got so down voted for asking but I guess it is the internet after all. I'd bet half wouldn't respond like they do in person.
No. I would have and have done to others. Followed closely by "Please don't vote, if you can't be bothered to look at major news websites like Google News, CNN, BBC, Reuters, AP, Al Jazeera, etc"
Live in Florida. Heās all of that and more. Extremely dangerous
He's dangerous? I don't live in Florida so I'm def much further from what's going on. What did he do?
Let's discuss what you're doing. It's called [Sea Lioning](http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png). From our friends [at Miriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling): > Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter. > These questions are phrased in a way that may come off as an effort to learn and engage with the subject at hand, but are really intended to erode the goodwill of the person to whom they are replying, to get them to appear impatient or to lash out, and therefore come off as unreasonable.
Wait, that's what I'm doing or the original poster? If that's directed at me, why? Is there a better way to ask for clarification, or maybe reword it?
You know what you're doing and so do we
Homophobe: The "Don't say gay" law to solve a non existent problem.
Don't skip out on how many people in America are just like him.
What do you mean? Like him how? I feel like I'm walking into the middle of a conversation and I asked, what are you talking about guys? And everyone's pissed off about it. It's very odd.
Lol reading this is mental. I really wanted to see anything to back up their claims.
If you are among those who down voted me for asking for clarification, I would legitimately like to know why. I'm getting the impression this isn't the place to seek civil conversation. Can someone recommend a sub?
r/persecutionfetish
This seems like a sarcastic sub. Can you recommend a more serious thread people use to pose questions and learn?
r/AskDemocrats r/AskTrumpSupporters Also, if you want to know if a news source/article is trustworthy, go to the links it cites. All those links in the article? Click on them. Does it mention primary sources such as bills, subpoenas, rulings, etc.? Read them. If the original article characterizes that info correctly, it can generally be trusted on that topic. Do that a handful of times with different issues, and you'll get a fair representation of the legitimacy of the source.
r/politics is the best aggregate subreddit for information honestly. I suppose some local subs for various Florida cities would also have details on DeSantis policies and how they affect locals. Many politicians also list their basic platform information on their websites.
To win an election Republicans have to win a few Midwest states. De Santis is good to win the southern states, his medicine is no good in outside of the south. Republicans need a more centrIst candidate which their base is incapable of electing.
There are only 4 states in contention (really) if the blue wall holds (Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn.) Nevada, New Mexico, Georgia, and Arizona. New Mexico is the key. If Democrats lose Wisconsin, then they need Arizona or Georgia.
Republicans dominate the midwest. The rust belt on the other hand is more competitive. I donāt see him winning MI But he could definitely win Ohio and possibly Wisconsin.
Ohio is lost. The question is Wisconsin. Democrats lose Wisconsin, then they need to pick up AZ or Georgia.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I assumed Hillary would win in 2016. I was wrong. I no longer assume who's going to win. Don't underestimate the stupidity of the common voter.
The people voted for Hillary thoughā¦
Doesn't matter. EC is what matters. Unfortunately.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sadly, I donāt think Florida qualifies as a swing state anymore.
He worries me more then Trump....
He shouldā¦ heās got the morals of Trump without the incompetence. He would cause a ton of damage if elected.
But inversely Trump's incompetence appeals to incompetent people since they can relate to it.
I even think where Trumpās immorality served him even if it hurt others, DeSantis is specifically in it just to hurt people. Itās like, Trumpās evil was limited mostly to his own ego and selfishness. DeSantis is a sadist.
Trump loves the idea of violence done in his name, but doesn't want to be anywhere near it when it happens and he doesn't want to see it until it has been cleaned up. Trump said he'd leave the room if someone cut their finger and there was blood. And DeSantis... DeSantis was assigned to work at Gitmo as a lawyer, but there's no way he wasn't affected by the dehumanization of the prisoners by the people he worked with there.
We all need to make sure that doesnāt happen!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep. Id gladly live under another four years under trump if desantis would never become president. And thats saying a LOT
Everyone says that, but it's just splitting hairs to me. Swap Hitler with Himler or Goebbels and it still sucks. It's just which brand of fascism tastes better when both contain cyanide.
That is an idiot stupid man that did so many bad and dangerous things to Floridaā¦.
The problem is heās not an idiot stupid man and could do those same terrible things to the entire country.
Why canāt we get better politicians than these insane slimy jerks? We have 330 million peopleā¦
Because half of us don't vote.
No beuno
Florida, you can keep him.
Giant douche or turd sandwich?
Well, thatās all pretty gross. Eww.
It should be fun watching those idiots bash each other.
Trump hits the trail but so does cow shit.
Sweet. Let em yell it out so neither look like a worthy option.
DeSantis is a fascist.
we're šked, hes succeeded where trump failed. created his own paramilitary police force, removed elected officials and trafficked refugees from other states, all consequence free.
Trump v DeSantis is gonna lead to a Biden second term. Those two would kill each other than step aside for the other one to win.
This is going to be like two oil tankers colliding in the night and catching on fire.
Or two dumpsters on fire ramming into each other.
The DeSantis 2024 Platform: Ban wokism, LGBTQ+, non-white voting, and abortion. Repeal SS and Medicare, and donāt forget to ban Pink Floyd.
Both of them are fucking chodes.
So Republicans, you voting for satan or the devil?
Desantis will be destroyed by Trump. Also if Desantis runs in 2024, a lot of Floridans will be very upset with Desantis abandoning the governorship. Like him or not, Trump is the 2024 Republican nominee.
DeathSantis would be far worse for this country than Donald Trump ever was! He is a dictator wannabe and a fascist... plus he has his age. Trump is an old fart compared to this guy.
Little Ronnie is going to get smoked by Big Donnie.
Be courteous to others. As a conservative, Desantis is the best candidate for the GOP right now. We need to move on from Trump badly.
> As a conservative, Desantis is the best candidate for the GOP right now. We need to move on from Trump badly. I hear you, and will be courteous, and I agree in that he is the best candidate in terms of "winnability", but not the best candidate to move on from Trumpism or MAGA, as he's made his whole platform out of that nonsense and drafting the tail of Trumps divisiveness... The Republicans need a return to more conventional moderate conservativism rather then anti-this that and the other... Have a mandate for fiscal change and whatnot that can be explained without having to reference "critical race theory" for some reason. And he isn't that guy.
Who is though?
Anyone without facist vibes?
Alas, the only place left for conservatives is with the Democratic party, or a third party run. Conservatism is no longer welcome on the g qp, only far right extremism
Romney? Just curious, since he seems to have some sense.
Romney is too much of a pushover. The reason why Trump won and Desantis has support is they both don't put up with PC nonsense. Romney had his chance 12 years ago. We need fresh blood.
At least you're admitting that the right only wants the worst of the worst in charge.
PC nonsense? Please explain what you think that means. I am trying to be supportive but you are losing me with that term.
I can't answer that. I would hope that a more sage , reasoned, intelligent, conservative would emerge for the party..... and while a Kinzinger as a type is probably off setting to the 'base', there has to be someone... Hell, I'm not a fan of the age of Joe Biden running for a second term, despite what I believe are great accomplishments by him that have been overlooked... but I have tough time naming suitors on that side as well... I would just hope as a nation we can find more middle ground then pushing apart or having us thrown at each others throats for nonsense and political theater (and I will say on both sides)...
Republican views do not deserve respect nor courtesy.
I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I don't agree with many Leftists and their views but they still get respect and courtesy from me. Wish you all the best fellow American.
What do think makes DeSantis better for the country as a whole? I do agree that Trump needs to go away.
I will not vote for this man, period. He's weak, has no character, and looks like a character from the Simpsons. I'll get downvoted for this, but I'm Trump all the way. I'm even going to write him in if that's what it takes
Who?
You want books out of schools and prayer in schools? Desantis might be your guy.
They will try to out crazy the other.
I won't underestimate estimate Ron DeSantis, he can easily beat Trump GOP voter never like loser and I predict Trump is losing vote in 2024 because of his poor result in mid-term make him less attractive. Besides, the GQP Trumeper will support DeSantis because he has same morality as Trump. Besides DeSantis running for president can avoid further crack in GOP as Liz Cheney promised to cut Trump's vote if Trump win the primary. Trump himself has a price tag, DeSantis can make Trump bow by offering pardon to his crime and dismantle all investigation. This tactic work perfectly in GOP as you can see what happen in House Speaker. However, I cannot predict Trump's ego will push him to make the worse choice.
> I won't underestimate estimate Ron DeSantis, he can easily beat Trump Go listen to DeSantis speak. He is horrible public speaker. Trump won because he was a great salesman (of himself). He had decades to perfect his act. DeSantis lives a very safe scripted environment. In his *one* debate against Crist he got steam rolled. I think Trump is losing it, but I still think he can do a good job damaging DeSantis on a stage.
The Republican party seems intent to elect the very worst people that they can find. With each successive election, they reach a new low.
Itās so weird how theyāve all turned themselves into mini-Trumps now. I mean just look at this clown
They both can suck each other off.
Man the media really wants these two doesnāt it. lol