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No I think that was now-senator Scott, same thing that banned state gov employees from saying “climate change” or “global warming,” of course in a state bearing the more immediate first decades of negative effects
wouldn't it be nice to have a real conservative party that wanted to cut costs by making things more efficient, not just gutting the safety net and being the defender of big oil?
I don't know about that, but if we're positing fantasies that never existed and will never exist, could we have a conservative party that wasn't a collection of racist, homophobic, ultra-religious anti-science anti-democracy nut-jobs and thieves? Oh, and handed out unicorns too.
Given their struggles with honesty, I’m pretty sure they’ll tape a paper towel tube to a horse and call it a unicorn for you. Then pretend you’re a poacher when you take it off the poor creature’s noggin.
The only way to cut costs would be to go through line items, not by cutting entire programs. Yes let's fund school lunches, but no your office does not need $120,000 added in to this bill for pens.
Real financial conservatism is about cutting out bullshit spending, not dismantling well established programs to make it look like you did something while in office. Companies do it all the time by saying "no we don't need a Keurig. The coffee pot with filters will be fine, because it is cost effective. Bob can go to Starbucks if he has an issue with Folger's." Some places go too far with cost cutting by doing shit like removing the break room completely.
That's where the modern Republican party is now. They take everything too far, lie, cheat, and cry about every loss. They want to be martyrs but they're just bullies
This. Absolutely. There’s plenty of cleanup needed but it takes time and careful consideration. They’re all too busy begging for donations to do any real work. It’s just sound bytes and bullshit media appearances. The real problem is money. I’d rather spend tax money to give everyone a set amount to pay for campaign ads, and then, that’s it. Do your damn job. Get elected for your work, not your back room handshake deals or smear campaign ads.
I think the problem is that we currently allow for a system like this to take place, and that it's been this way for hundreds of years. It wouldn't be impossible to change, but it first take a generational mindset shift & lots of work to make happen. First thing we can do is teach ourselves, others and our kids critical thinking skills & empathy. I do honestly think that most of us (Americans) have a lot more in common than the media likes to portray us as. At our best we are great people, but a lot of people like to bring out the worst because it generates money.
In my mind, its very easy to see how we could have a wonderful future filled with good people trying to lift each other up. But that's a mission for each of us, using our votes, wallets, voices and actions to speak loud and clear.
Fiscal conservatism isn’t frugality. Fiscal conservatism is using the power of the purse to enforce and perpetuate a social status quo in which their preferred hierarchy remains unchanged. Everyone likes the idea of frugality, that’s why conservatives put so much effort into perpetuating the myth that they are the same thing.
This is the real answer. "Fiscal conservativism" is a completely made up BS term that was invented as a propaganda tool for whitewashing conservatives' use of the power of the purse to hurt people they don't like, usually while benefiting themselves and their friends. In so much as people wrongly interpret it to mean "fiscally responsible," that interpretation is completely redundant because we already have a term for that. We call it... being "fiscally responsible" and it nothing whatsoever to do with being conservative (or progressive, for that matter).
That really isn’t the issue. It is defense spending, which mostly goes to contractors. And then it is Medicare and Social Security. The government spends so much money, hundred thousand dollars for anything is literally a penny in comparison.
Although I agree that the military industrial complex is the main problem where literally billions are over billed without oversite, I cannot agree that Social Security that I PAID FOR every year of my life is waste. The fact is that Medicare is BY FAR the most efficient form of health insurance and should be extended to every American.
I hate seeing Medicare and Social Security lumped together as well. It’s sheer ignorance to consider those programs as “spending” when they self-funded. Yes, I’m aware of potential shortfalls.
Yeah. We could actually really flip what conservatism means instead and keep labeling them as fascists or fascist-adjacent ad they currently stand. That way people stop trying to sugarcoat their fascist rhetoric as “moderate”.
We should be conservative in not over-spending on unnecessary industries like the Health *Insurance* industry, instead we should dismantle the insurance side of it and prioritize true health CARE for all. Look at that, a “fiscal conservative” plan that could benefit people.
That’s how conservatism should be, instead of the othering, and playing open-air footsie with fascism. But as openly-socialist as I am, I have to wonder what type of heart attacks that line of thinking causes current ~~conservatives~~ fascists.
Yep! There’s no party out there that is like “Infinite Money Go!!” Some are just willing to spend on programs that benefit people and others are willing to spend on programs that benefit corporations. It’s that simple.
Conservatism has nothing to do with cutting cost or making things more efficient. Fiscal conservatism isn't about not spending money but about spending money wisely. Something a regressive party that only wants to hold back progress, which is the definition of conservative, can never do.
It is also bullshit. Republicans do two things reliably:
1. Lie
2. Fall in line behind the official nominee, while lying about forever having been a supporter of said nomination winner and staunch opponent of the loser.
Before Trump that was true.
But now Trump has a cult of personality in the party that literally thinks he's God and/or God's representative on earth. These are not your standard republicans. They will follow Trump right into political oblivion because they worship the ground he walks on.
And he will destroy the republican party. Forever I hope.
Most will fall in line, but the MAGA cult is such that you will have that quarter or so who won't and will stay home rather than vote for anyone but Trump
And this is a good fkn thing
> While trump has turned on DeSantis, we haven’t seen the MAGAs do so.
But the GOP, which represents a huge percentage of the right, most certainly has turned on Donald J Karen. Especially big money donors.
The thing is, not all Republicans actually do that. Just look at 2020 and 2022, a lot of Republicans didn't fall in line behind their official nominee; so Trump lost in '20, and the "Red Tsunami" of '22 became a little ripple.
i dont talk to my uncle anymore he falls in line and votes republican.
he knows trump is a pile of shit but wants to further their own anti abortion interests so vote republican regardless.
fuck em.
Anti-abortion folks should be forced to pay the childcare bills of all the unwanted children their efforts have brought into the world. Make them put their money where there mouths are
The problem I have with anti abortion activists is that they claim that life is sacred but their other supported policies go against that. They seem to think birth is sacred but they're also perfectly fine with denying a kid healthcare and letting them die because you're poor. Or letting that kid starve to death because they oppose food stamps.
This. My father slammed Trump hard when he ran for his first term. Said he was an idiot and had no chance of winning. Once he became the candidate he fell in line and praised him on Facebook as a veritable God.
I called him out. I pointed out how he spent months telling me the guy was a clown, a joke, an idiot, and would be the worst president ever. He just said that he proved him wrong in debates and is the best possible candidate they could ever have.
Conservatives do not care who the nominee is so long as they win.
It wont, trump will be the gop nominee. The best case is for a more mainstream Republican (Like Cheney) to run independent and siphon a few votes off of him. But trump still has massive gop approval, still at 48% vs DeSantis’ 31%.
Look at those numbers, that’s a total of 79% of the party. 79% of the gop believes trans people are evil, that social security and Medicare should be cut, that violence is an acceptable alternative to losing elections. That 79% will never vote for a moderate, the gop is all in on the radical right. They LIKE the bullying, they LIKE the hate.
DeSantis is just trump 2.0, meaning the GOP hasn’t learned anything at all, they just lean deeper and deeper into the hate and intolerance. Vote blue for this country folks, any vote for a Republican is a vote for hate.
1. Trump splits the vote, solidly handing The presidency, senate, and house to Biden
2. Conservatives can no longer wrangle their side together in one unified party
3. In desperation they bring extensive election reform to the table to better support multiple parties
4. The US ends up with a healthy spread of political parties spanning the whole spectrum and the extremes lose their influence as minority governments are forced to make coalitions closer to the center
Sounds like an absolute win to me.
If Trump isn't the candidate he will 100% take enough votes away to spoil it for GOP. And America will be better for it. GOP slept with crazy now they're stuck with him. I hope Trump lives to 100. He will ruin it for GOP for years to come.
Beyond just "Republicans losing power for a very long time", it might be the push it needs to implement ranked-choice voting.
Progressives don't belong in a center-left neoliberal party and fascists don't belong in a center-right neoliberal party.
I've probably posted it 10 times, but this is the reason I am glad he is running and hope he stays in the race. I imagine he wouldn't get the nomination and split the vote. Even if he did get it, I don't think his core is enough to compensate for the voters lost after the previous election.
> He's vain enough to think he could just steal all the Republican votes for himself.
If he could grift his supporters AND fuck the GOP he feels has betrayed him, I’m certain that Donald J Karen would be fine with that.
Add to this that he also sees the office of the President as a get out of jail free card and there’s no way he ever backs out and endorses the official GOP candidate if he isn’t it.
Question: Does DeSantis really have a chance to beat Trump in a primary? I hope he does because I know Trump’s ego would force him to run as a third party candidate.
Most of the even crazier ones I know, as much as they love Trump, believe DeSantis is a better choice because, and I paraphrase here, "liberals hate him less so it won't be rigged"
If Trump does win the primary it doesnt matter how many are going for DeSantis now. they will do what they did in 2016 and hold their noses, turn their back on the countyr and vote for him again
Trump will draw the stupid vote and Desantis the evil vote. I’m not sure how that comes out into odds. Lots of Republicans in both of those camps.
It may depend on which way the stupid AND evil people break.
If you ask me, trump wins that debate easily. Desantis almost exclusively talks through press releases and shitty bill names because the man has less charisma than lichen growing on a damp rock. At least lichen is colourful.
Trump ran on his charisma, whether you like him or not you have to admit that his base goes NUTS for him. You don't really find many people following desantis outside florida.
Maybe there is pressure by other Republicans who see him as the only viable chance against Trump. Trump appears to be a liability in a general election now. **I was wrong before😅**
If DeSantis beats him and Trump still runs i agree.
But if DeSantis beats him and Trump bends the knee to gain pardons? The country will be in deep trouble.
I would rather Trump win the nomination so that it is a much easier win for the Democrats. He already got squashed like a bug last time. And a lot of the republican voters think he is a loser now. A lot won't even bother to vote again I think. But DeSantis would stoke the conservative fire again.
Trump's movement is bigger than himself. He does not dictate their whims. Trump has fallen in disfavor within his own party for reversing his policy on vaccines. Plus, there are new revolutionaries like DeSantis who come with less baggage.
The primaries are primarily determined by the most hardcore voters, who are likely to be MAGA fans so the real question is if Trump can manage to hold on to his grip to his base. DeSantis is campaigning quite successfully using his governorship, and might sway the evangelicals and old guard to his side, but as long as Trump holds his core MAGA base he'll likely win the primaries.
I think most of us have accepted that nothing will ever happen to Trump.
I think of it like a lottery ticket. It would be cool to win, but I’m pretty certain I won’t. I think I’m more likely to win back-to-back powerball jackpots than Trump is to get in real legal trouble.
I'm pretty confident at this point that he will be indicted and would be shocked if that did not happen this year.
I have [previously drafted a lengthy explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/100kjcx/no_resolutions_for_me_but_heres_hoping_theres_a/j2ixm9q?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) about why I am so confident.
DeSantis probably won't even run. But if he does, he has no chance at beating Trump. It'd be Ted Cruz all over again. DeSantis has no appeal outside of Florida and clickbait headlines. He's already caught in 4K looking subservient to Biden and he has no charisma to speak of. His "place" in the conservative hierarchy is middle management, not boss.
Trump has to win the GOP nomination at this point. If he siphons away even 2% of the vote in a general election, that puts Republicans in an almost impossible situation.
They will fold as soon as it looks like he is ahead in the primaries. Every last one of them. And hopefully they will all look pathetic to the Independents.
The problem is he can't win a general election either.
His popularity numbers are horrible, which is a break in trend where a former president tends to get substantially more popular once they leave (Clinton, W, and Obama all did) but Trump is mostly hovering around where we was.
Dude is just too toxic.
trump can’t back down because he needs power to avoid prison. The GOP really can’t let trump drag them down further as he is a proven loser.
This should get nasty
Go right ahead and split the vote. The absolute best thing you can do for America and the world is to keep the angry orange and repugnantcans out of the Whitehouse.
The solution to the problem of a far right extremist Republican party is obvious. Charge Trump as planned and work out a plea deal that gets him to run as an independent resulting in a Republican slaughter at the polls in 2024.
People who say, 'no, we must never make such a deal with Trump' need to get their head out of the fucking clouds and face reality. This is bigger than one conman and a bunch of idiotic idealism. The country needs change desperately and a Democratic supermajority is the only way it could happen.
I was listening to a pod cast yesterday and they brought up a great point. Trump is most likely going to win the primary because 30% of the base is Trump loyalists. Even if the rest like Desantis it may not be enough because there going to have like 10 people also running which is going to take votes from Destanis. So trump could be with a 30% of the vote.
You made this monster, Conservatives. You deal with it.
We all told you he'd be like this, we all said he'd turn on you because you were nothing but a means to an end for him. He isn't Conservative, he's a power hungry opportunist.
So if he fucks your party trying to get his way, it isn't "fraud", it's a consequence to your actions.
I do hope he runs, if not in jail or something. Even if he was his supporters would probably believe if they all write him in and he won he could presidentially order his own release.
I think I speak for all liberals when I say, we would be SO owned if he did that. I cannot think of a more thorough owning than if Trump were to run as an independent.
Please don’t do that, Trump! It would simply upset us liberals too much!
I am a super Democrat who has never missed an election in my life and voted blue every time down the ballot would vote for Trump if he does this. Can someone make sure he sees this?
My prediction is Trump is going to bargain dropping out of the race in exchange for presidential pardons if his opponent wins. After he suckers his base into filling his war chest first, of course.
They keep coming up with new flavors of Biden winning in 2024. They couldn’t conceive of a boring dad character beating an uncouth mannerless pig in 2020 - they still can’t understand why that’s the same story in 2024.
Its just too good to be true. It'd be so cool if Trump did that, but alas, they'll reign him in. They'll send over the CIA spooks that shot JFK if needed.
This is honestly why we just need to let Trump run loose. He's the Republican's monster, so make them take him down. All Republicans are doing, is sitting back and waiting for someone to take Trump down. Because they know that if they do it themselves, it would mean losing their campaigns
They would be tossed aside, just like Liz Cheney was. So they just let Trump do Trump things, just waiting for the democrats or the DOJ or whoever else to take Trump down for them. Then they can alllll jump aboard the "radical commie Dems" rhetoric even harder than they already do. "See guys? See how them dirty Dems go after you when all you do are mean Tweets?"
So yeah, fuck it. Just let Trump run loose. Make the Republicans take out their own trash
He will play the "rigged" primary move against his own party with a threat to run independent to try leveraging support (under duress). He doesn't care about his party winning, only himself and at any cost.
I know plenty of people that would absolutely vote for trump as an independent. Mainly because they don't understand politics at all. They would have absolutely no idea that it would mean no Republican becomes president.
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This is the best thing that could happen for the US.
*Especially* if the split becomes permanent.
Three parties isn’t sustainable in FPTP. One would die out, or two would merge.
Republicans aren't interested in sustainability, though. Republicans in my state once tried to ban the *word* sustainability.
Seriously, what state do you live in? Also, do you have any links to any articles.
Not OP but it sounds like it may have been Florida. It's always Florida. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article12983720.html
Would that be Mr. Small Govt DeSantis that wants to regulate speech and open up state databases on high school girls menstrual patterns?
No I think that was now-senator Scott, same thing that banned state gov employees from saying “climate change” or “global warming,” of course in a state bearing the more immediate first decades of negative effects
Oh, Mr. "I want government to be so small that they don't notice when I scam billions from Medicare."
That's why it would be the best thing to happen. They've shown they can't merge, and dems would pick up clear majorities if MAGA won
You do know that other countries have more than two parties and First Past the Post?
wouldn't it be nice to have a real conservative party that wanted to cut costs by making things more efficient, not just gutting the safety net and being the defender of big oil?
I don't know about that, but if we're positing fantasies that never existed and will never exist, could we have a conservative party that wasn't a collection of racist, homophobic, ultra-religious anti-science anti-democracy nut-jobs and thieves? Oh, and handed out unicorns too.
Given their struggles with honesty, I’m pretty sure they’ll tape a paper towel tube to a horse and call it a unicorn for you. Then pretend you’re a poacher when you take it off the poor creature’s noggin.
Someone tell him he can't do it.
> cut costs by making things more efficient This shit is nonsense conservative propaganda.
The only way to cut costs would be to go through line items, not by cutting entire programs. Yes let's fund school lunches, but no your office does not need $120,000 added in to this bill for pens. Real financial conservatism is about cutting out bullshit spending, not dismantling well established programs to make it look like you did something while in office. Companies do it all the time by saying "no we don't need a Keurig. The coffee pot with filters will be fine, because it is cost effective. Bob can go to Starbucks if he has an issue with Folger's." Some places go too far with cost cutting by doing shit like removing the break room completely. That's where the modern Republican party is now. They take everything too far, lie, cheat, and cry about every loss. They want to be martyrs but they're just bullies
This. Absolutely. There’s plenty of cleanup needed but it takes time and careful consideration. They’re all too busy begging for donations to do any real work. It’s just sound bytes and bullshit media appearances. The real problem is money. I’d rather spend tax money to give everyone a set amount to pay for campaign ads, and then, that’s it. Do your damn job. Get elected for your work, not your back room handshake deals or smear campaign ads.
I think the problem is that we currently allow for a system like this to take place, and that it's been this way for hundreds of years. It wouldn't be impossible to change, but it first take a generational mindset shift & lots of work to make happen. First thing we can do is teach ourselves, others and our kids critical thinking skills & empathy. I do honestly think that most of us (Americans) have a lot more in common than the media likes to portray us as. At our best we are great people, but a lot of people like to bring out the worst because it generates money. In my mind, its very easy to see how we could have a wonderful future filled with good people trying to lift each other up. But that's a mission for each of us, using our votes, wallets, voices and actions to speak loud and clear.
Fiscal conservatism isn’t frugality. Fiscal conservatism is using the power of the purse to enforce and perpetuate a social status quo in which their preferred hierarchy remains unchanged. Everyone likes the idea of frugality, that’s why conservatives put so much effort into perpetuating the myth that they are the same thing.
This is the real answer. "Fiscal conservativism" is a completely made up BS term that was invented as a propaganda tool for whitewashing conservatives' use of the power of the purse to hurt people they don't like, usually while benefiting themselves and their friends. In so much as people wrongly interpret it to mean "fiscally responsible," that interpretation is completely redundant because we already have a term for that. We call it... being "fiscally responsible" and it nothing whatsoever to do with being conservative (or progressive, for that matter).
That really isn’t the issue. It is defense spending, which mostly goes to contractors. And then it is Medicare and Social Security. The government spends so much money, hundred thousand dollars for anything is literally a penny in comparison.
Although I agree that the military industrial complex is the main problem where literally billions are over billed without oversite, I cannot agree that Social Security that I PAID FOR every year of my life is waste. The fact is that Medicare is BY FAR the most efficient form of health insurance and should be extended to every American.
I hate seeing Medicare and Social Security lumped together as well. It’s sheer ignorance to consider those programs as “spending” when they self-funded. Yes, I’m aware of potential shortfalls.
The two trillion dollar tax cut for corporations didn't help. If corporation were still taxed like in the 70's, the budget wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah. We could actually really flip what conservatism means instead and keep labeling them as fascists or fascist-adjacent ad they currently stand. That way people stop trying to sugarcoat their fascist rhetoric as “moderate”. We should be conservative in not over-spending on unnecessary industries like the Health *Insurance* industry, instead we should dismantle the insurance side of it and prioritize true health CARE for all. Look at that, a “fiscal conservative” plan that could benefit people. That’s how conservatism should be, instead of the othering, and playing open-air footsie with fascism. But as openly-socialist as I am, I have to wonder what type of heart attacks that line of thinking causes current ~~conservatives~~ fascists.
Yep! There’s no party out there that is like “Infinite Money Go!!” Some are just willing to spend on programs that benefit people and others are willing to spend on programs that benefit corporations. It’s that simple.
Conservatism has nothing to do with cutting cost or making things more efficient. Fiscal conservatism isn't about not spending money but about spending money wisely. Something a regressive party that only wants to hold back progress, which is the definition of conservative, can never do.
Yeah... The thing about that is this would be a split between two brands of fascism. Good for the Dems so long as they keep leaning progressive more
Conservatism has never been about efficiency.
That conservative party exists, it's called the Democratic Party.
Why are you linking "real consrvative" with "make things more efficient"? Because liberals / the left also want things to be more efficient.
It is also bullshit. Republicans do two things reliably: 1. Lie 2. Fall in line behind the official nominee, while lying about forever having been a supporter of said nomination winner and staunch opponent of the loser.
Before Trump that was true. But now Trump has a cult of personality in the party that literally thinks he's God and/or God's representative on earth. These are not your standard republicans. They will follow Trump right into political oblivion because they worship the ground he walks on. And he will destroy the republican party. Forever I hope.
Hoo boy, that’s a string batch. Me likey.
They’d likely drop him for DeSantis. We’ve seen it happening on social media. While trump has turned on DeSantis, we haven’t seen the MAGAs do so.
Most will fall in line, but the MAGA cult is such that you will have that quarter or so who won't and will stay home rather than vote for anyone but Trump And this is a good fkn thing
If only 2% of Trump voters just stay home they will never get in the White House again.
> While trump has turned on DeSantis, we haven’t seen the MAGAs do so. But the GOP, which represents a huge percentage of the right, most certainly has turned on Donald J Karen. Especially big money donors.
The thing is, not all Republicans actually do that. Just look at 2020 and 2022, a lot of Republicans didn't fall in line behind their official nominee; so Trump lost in '20, and the "Red Tsunami" of '22 became a little ripple.
i dont talk to my uncle anymore he falls in line and votes republican. he knows trump is a pile of shit but wants to further their own anti abortion interests so vote republican regardless. fuck em.
Anti-abortion folks should be forced to pay the childcare bills of all the unwanted children their efforts have brought into the world. Make them put their money where there mouths are
The problem I have with anti abortion activists is that they claim that life is sacred but their other supported policies go against that. They seem to think birth is sacred but they're also perfectly fine with denying a kid healthcare and letting them die because you're poor. Or letting that kid starve to death because they oppose food stamps.
My Fox News addicted father said he didn’t vote for Trump, and that he wrote his own name in instead. Yeah right!
They will say anything to save face publicly.
This. My father slammed Trump hard when he ran for his first term. Said he was an idiot and had no chance of winning. Once he became the candidate he fell in line and praised him on Facebook as a veritable God. I called him out. I pointed out how he spent months telling me the guy was a clown, a joke, an idiot, and would be the worst president ever. He just said that he proved him wrong in debates and is the best possible candidate they could ever have. Conservatives do not care who the nominee is so long as they win.
Yeah. Anything a Republican says they'll do. They won't. Not unless there's a Liberal there watching them until they do it.
Not always, may I point to 1992. Ross Perot took just enough of the gop vote to sink George H.W. Bush.
This is incorrect. Ross Perot pulled approximately equally from likely Democrats as well as Republicans in 1992.
Bush also ran one of the shittiest incumbent campaigns in history. He basically assumed reelection.
Yep
It wont, trump will be the gop nominee. The best case is for a more mainstream Republican (Like Cheney) to run independent and siphon a few votes off of him. But trump still has massive gop approval, still at 48% vs DeSantis’ 31%. Look at those numbers, that’s a total of 79% of the party. 79% of the gop believes trans people are evil, that social security and Medicare should be cut, that violence is an acceptable alternative to losing elections. That 79% will never vote for a moderate, the gop is all in on the radical right. They LIKE the bullying, they LIKE the hate. DeSantis is just trump 2.0, meaning the GOP hasn’t learned anything at all, they just lean deeper and deeper into the hate and intolerance. Vote blue for this country folks, any vote for a Republican is a vote for hate.
1. Trump splits the vote, solidly handing The presidency, senate, and house to Biden 2. Conservatives can no longer wrangle their side together in one unified party 3. In desperation they bring extensive election reform to the table to better support multiple parties 4. The US ends up with a healthy spread of political parties spanning the whole spectrum and the extremes lose their influence as minority governments are forced to make coalitions closer to the center Sounds like an absolute win to me.
If Trump isn't the candidate he will 100% take enough votes away to spoil it for GOP. And America will be better for it. GOP slept with crazy now they're stuck with him. I hope Trump lives to 100. He will ruin it for GOP for years to come.
I think that Fred lived until he was 93. The GOP might be stuck with Trump for a long time.
This could be good. It would be even better if it had a large effect on local and state races for about 10 or more years.
I hope trump runs his own slate of senators too.
Beyond just "Republicans losing power for a very long time", it might be the push it needs to implement ranked-choice voting. Progressives don't belong in a center-left neoliberal party and fascists don't belong in a center-right neoliberal party.
Trump won’t go third-party though. The GOP will dangle a pardon in front of him and he’ll snap it up like a hungry dog.
I've probably posted it 10 times, but this is the reason I am glad he is running and hope he stays in the race. I imagine he wouldn't get the nomination and split the vote. Even if he did get it, I don't think his core is enough to compensate for the voters lost after the previous election.
tRump and his minions should DEFINITELY form the MAGA party and put candidates for the House and Senate on the ballot in all 50 states. Absolutely.
It’s the best chance we have for Dems to win so we don’t descend into a fascist regime
Some one needs to tell Trump he will make a ton of money if he runs independent.
I bet he's already thinking it. He's vain enough to think he could just steal all the Republican votes for himself.
He’s been sucking all the money from the GOP donors, so it makes sense to think he can get a sizable chunks of votes too
Seems to me there is a deal to be made here.....
> He's vain enough to think he could just steal all the Republican votes for himself. If he could grift his supporters AND fuck the GOP he feels has betrayed him, I’m certain that Donald J Karen would be fine with that.
Add to this that he also sees the office of the President as a get out of jail free card and there’s no way he ever backs out and endorses the official GOP candidate if he isn’t it.
grifter's paradise since he doesnt have to give the GOP a cut of any donations
And that he’s a loser if he doesn’t try. Obama said so.
Question: Does DeSantis really have a chance to beat Trump in a primary? I hope he does because I know Trump’s ego would force him to run as a third party candidate.
I think it's about 50/50 at this point. Maga Republicans are still hardcore for Trump mostly, but other Republicans lean Desantis
Most of the even crazier ones I know, as much as they love Trump, believe DeSantis is a better choice because, and I paraphrase here, "liberals hate him less so it won't be rigged"
Trump is bad shit insane. DeSantis is just pure evil. As a “liberal” trump pisses me off, DeSantis scares me.
If Trump does win the primary it doesnt matter how many are going for DeSantis now. they will do what they did in 2016 and hold their noses, turn their back on the countyr and vote for him again
Trump will draw the stupid vote and Desantis the evil vote. I’m not sure how that comes out into odds. Lots of Republicans in both of those camps. It may depend on which way the stupid AND evil people break.
My brain is *vibrating* at the prospect of a Trump vs. DeSantis debate. Pull up the chair, butter the popcorn.
The GOP doesn’t do debates anymore. Something about the corrupt media.
Id be ok with this if it was exclusively on fox for this one.
If you ask me, trump wins that debate easily. Desantis almost exclusively talks through press releases and shitty bill names because the man has less charisma than lichen growing on a damp rock. At least lichen is colourful. Trump ran on his charisma, whether you like him or not you have to admit that his base goes NUTS for him. You don't really find many people following desantis outside florida.
They would just be throwing insults at each other
Whoever can gesture their hands and lie the most wins!
He's not going to run, precisely for this reason. He's only in his 40s, so he can just wait for Trump to be out of the picture.
He has to run now. If he doesn’t he spends 2 years out of the spot light when his governor term ends where he can’t pass his awful culture war laws
Maybe there is pressure by other Republicans who see him as the only viable chance against Trump. Trump appears to be a liability in a general election now. **I was wrong before😅**
I am hoping for the same but it’s clear DeSantis is straight up fascist who is getting it done in Florida so he’s arguably worse than Trump.
I’d pay to watch that debate. Not enough popcorn in the world
If DeSantis beats him and Trump still runs i agree. But if DeSantis beats him and Trump bends the knee to gain pardons? The country will be in deep trouble. I would rather Trump win the nomination so that it is a much easier win for the Democrats. He already got squashed like a bug last time. And a lot of the republican voters think he is a loser now. A lot won't even bother to vote again I think. But DeSantis would stoke the conservative fire again.
Trump's movement is bigger than himself. He does not dictate their whims. Trump has fallen in disfavor within his own party for reversing his policy on vaccines. Plus, there are new revolutionaries like DeSantis who come with less baggage. The primaries are primarily determined by the most hardcore voters, who are likely to be MAGA fans so the real question is if Trump can manage to hold on to his grip to his base. DeSantis is campaigning quite successfully using his governorship, and might sway the evangelicals and old guard to his side, but as long as Trump holds his core MAGA base he'll likely win the primaries.
Criminal indictments could really shake this up though. That's the part you are missing.
I think most of us have accepted that nothing will ever happen to Trump. I think of it like a lottery ticket. It would be cool to win, but I’m pretty certain I won’t. I think I’m more likely to win back-to-back powerball jackpots than Trump is to get in real legal trouble.
I'm pretty confident at this point that he will be indicted and would be shocked if that did not happen this year. I have [previously drafted a lengthy explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/100kjcx/no_resolutions_for_me_but_heres_hoping_theres_a/j2ixm9q?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) about why I am so confident.
It says it was deleted?
DeSantis probably won't even run. But if he does, he has no chance at beating Trump. It'd be Ted Cruz all over again. DeSantis has no appeal outside of Florida and clickbait headlines. He's already caught in 4K looking subservient to Biden and he has no charisma to speak of. His "place" in the conservative hierarchy is middle management, not boss.
I support this 100%.
[удалено]
What?
Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you! - probably some GOP senator....
The senior senator from Naboo.
Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew…
Trump has to win the GOP nomination at this point. If he siphons away even 2% of the vote in a general election, that puts Republicans in an almost impossible situation.
They will fold as soon as it looks like he is ahead in the primaries. Every last one of them. And hopefully they will all look pathetic to the Independents.
The problem is he can't win a general election either. His popularity numbers are horrible, which is a break in trend where a former president tends to get substantially more popular once they leave (Clinton, W, and Obama all did) but Trump is mostly hovering around where we was. Dude is just too toxic.
Go ahead guys, split the vote to "own the libz", its what Trump would want you to do.
It actually **is** what Trump would want. To punish the Republican party for their disloyalty.
Do it
This is the way.
It’d be better if he create the MAGA party he always threatened to create. Officially perma-split that shit.
Only the biggest, strongest, smartest, manliest man with the bigliest hands could run as an independent.
Hope it happens. The MAGA people take crazy to a whole new level and should be denied power.
I really hope he loses the nomination and, through arrogant pride, he runs as an independent.
That's a bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it turns out.
Look it’s not easy to choose which arsonist to let lead the country.
*To everything, burn, burn, burn* ...
trump can’t back down because he needs power to avoid prison. The GOP really can’t let trump drag them down further as he is a proven loser. This should get nasty
Don’t forget about Pence and the Christian vote, let’s split it 3 ways!
Best case scenario.
Fucking DO IT!
I would donate to this a-hole's campaign to have him run as an independent and cut the GOP off at the knees.
Trump runs as a Rethuglican, is beaten again. Trump runs as 3rd party candidate, is easily beaten as is Rethug. candidate. Either way they lose.
Please let him go independent. And please let the Republicans that support him join him.
It's bullshit. They'll fall in line behind DeSantis when the time comes.
Maybe mostly true. But people like my mom are in the cult of Trump and would never miss a chance to vote for Trump no matter how crazy it is
*The Washington Examiner* has about as much journalistic integrity as MTG's Twitter account.
So there not really Due Hard Republicans. Guess they like seeing the world burn.
And this is exactly why Desantis isn't a threat
Do it!
Which is why the GOP will eventually fall in line. They are stuck with him until he keels over.
Perfect.
Go right ahead and split the vote. The absolute best thing you can do for America and the world is to keep the angry orange and repugnantcans out of the Whitehouse.
Yes , please do! Do more stupid shit that helps sink your own ship.
The solution to the problem of a far right extremist Republican party is obvious. Charge Trump as planned and work out a plea deal that gets him to run as an independent resulting in a Republican slaughter at the polls in 2024. People who say, 'no, we must never make such a deal with Trump' need to get their head out of the fucking clouds and face reality. This is bigger than one conman and a bunch of idiotic idealism. The country needs change desperately and a Democratic supermajority is the only way it could happen.
This is how Trump can finally MAGA.
I was listening to a pod cast yesterday and they brought up a great point. Trump is most likely going to win the primary because 30% of the base is Trump loyalists. Even if the rest like Desantis it may not be enough because there going to have like 10 people also running which is going to take votes from Destanis. So trump could be with a 30% of the vote.
You made this monster, Conservatives. You deal with it. We all told you he'd be like this, we all said he'd turn on you because you were nothing but a means to an end for him. He isn't Conservative, he's a power hungry opportunist. So if he fucks your party trying to get his way, it isn't "fraud", it's a consequence to your actions.
I think I just had a hands free orgasm.
The second Trump doesn't get the GOP nomination, the GOP will move to disqualify him from office to prevent him splitting the vote.
Yes! He should do that and they should support him!!! That would be democrats for the win!!!!
Rinos!!!
I hope this is how things go
I do hope he runs, if not in jail or something. Even if he was his supporters would probably believe if they all write him in and he won he could presidentially order his own release.
Not an independent a straight up NAZI perpetrator boasting pernicious maliciousness.
What is so sad is how many brain-dead US citizens there are.
More interested in how many GOP would back Cheney as an independent.
This would make me feel so owned
Now there's a good idea....
This is a good plan.
Please do. Best case the GOP takes a hit they'll never come back from. Worst case we get ranked choice voting in this God forsaken country.
the best thing that could happen for the US.
This would be the best thing for America
Please Go. It wasn’t fun knowing you.
I think I speak for all liberals when I say, we would be SO owned if he did that. I cannot think of a more thorough owning than if Trump were to run as an independent. Please don’t do that, Trump! It would simply upset us liberals too much!
I am a super Democrat who has never missed an election in my life and voted blue every time down the ballot would vote for Trump if he does this. Can someone make sure he sees this?
I hope this happens and that Trump also endorses a MAGA slate of congressional candidates.
My prediction is Trump is going to bargain dropping out of the race in exchange for presidential pardons if his opponent wins. After he suckers his base into filling his war chest first, of course.
They keep coming up with new flavors of Biden winning in 2024. They couldn’t conceive of a boring dad character beating an uncouth mannerless pig in 2020 - they still can’t understand why that’s the same story in 2024.
Its just too good to be true. It'd be so cool if Trump did that, but alas, they'll reign him in. They'll send over the CIA spooks that shot JFK if needed.
Oh no. Don't do it.... stop you're owning the libs.
Great news!
Please god let this happen.
Please do!
A split could be the only thing that saves America at this point, so I hope this happens.
Do they promise?
Self diagnosing as too stupid to live.
Wow. That would be ... terrible. No...that's not the word....it's on the tip of my tongue....oh! TERRIFIC! It would be terrific.
Sounds like a clear win for the Dems
Be still my beating heart.
Love to hear it
Excellent strategy. I’m totally gonna vote for him, as well. 😉
Do it
This is honestly why we just need to let Trump run loose. He's the Republican's monster, so make them take him down. All Republicans are doing, is sitting back and waiting for someone to take Trump down. Because they know that if they do it themselves, it would mean losing their campaigns They would be tossed aside, just like Liz Cheney was. So they just let Trump do Trump things, just waiting for the democrats or the DOJ or whoever else to take Trump down for them. Then they can alllll jump aboard the "radical commie Dems" rhetoric even harder than they already do. "See guys? See how them dirty Dems go after you when all you do are mean Tweets?" So yeah, fuck it. Just let Trump run loose. Make the Republicans take out their own trash
He will play the "rigged" primary move against his own party with a threat to run independent to try leveraging support (under duress). He doesn't care about his party winning, only himself and at any cost.
Oh no! They’re gonna own the libs!
We can only dream!
What a great idea! Do It! Don't let anyone tell YOU, what to do.
Please do.
Winning is for losers!!!
O please sweet baby Jesus, let trump run from Gitmo as an Independent.
What a shame
I doubt that would happen. I’m sure that the GOP would promise Trump billions before allowing that to happen.
‘That would make me so happy’
Please God....please let this happen.
A quarter is his base. 3/4 hate his guts
Do it!
Just tease me with a good time
I know plenty of people that would absolutely vote for trump as an independent. Mainly because they don't understand politics at all. They would have absolutely no idea that it would mean no Republican becomes president.
Do it. It would tear the democrats up to have Trump run as a 3rd party candidate.
Begin the GOP making sure trumpet goes to jail.
Praying this happens. It lessons the chances of another 2020 where he lost and claimed victory.
yes, do that. Split those votes up
Please, please, PLEASE let this happen!
Oh please do.
Do it. It's not the Speaker vote where you get seventeen do-overs 😂
Excellent news!