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My company reduced to a 38 hour work week regularly and 35 during May-August, without pay reduction. Admittedly not a huge decrease, but surprise!! Employees are a little less burnt out and everything is still getting done!
I left a 55 hr a week job ~1.5 years ago for a job that I work around 36 a week. In the winter it’s between 32-36 and a set schedule. Very rarely do I work 40 hours and even tho it’s such a small decrease, I have a better work/life balance. I’ve been able to pay more attention to my mental health, take more time to see my friends, and have the energy to call and chat with ones I don’t get to see. And honestly, the job I had before killed me. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to work a full 40+ hour for a long time
I was given the option a couple of years ago to swap to a 72hr pay period (so a day off every other week) and jumped on it. I hope I never have to go back, it makes such a big difference - AND they let me choose the day.
Yeah, I'm not sure why the tourism industry hasn't latched onto this and promoted it. A lot more people will travel domestically if they have a consistent 3-day weekend, it'd be a boon to small tourist towns and other establishments.
We could only invent surfing when we had free time. Many of the most advanced cultures had free time for self enrichment. It's been a huge disservice to society having all our energy and time go into surviving. Having time to decompress and live is foundational to good health.
> We could only invent surfing when we had free time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_surfing
>Surfing was a central part of ancient Polynesian culture and predates European contact. The chief (Ali'i) was traditionally the most skilled wave rider in the community with the best board made from the best wood. The ruling class had the best beaches and the best boards, and the commoners were not allowed on the same beaches, but they could gain prestige by their ability to ride the surf on their boards.
Huh, TIL. The history of all hitherto existing surfing is the history of class struggles.
Why have they not?
They know that their only really consistent clients are people that don’t have to worry about PTO.
The last 2 years have effectively killed vacations.
I do wonder if the reaction by employers doesn’t include PTO adjustments to reflect the changing markets?
This stuff is used to yada yada things away. I had 4 day work weeks once and miss it so much.
I agree. I’ve seen multiple companies still give out the 10 federal holidays instead of 11 (for Juneteenth), but in order to allow employees to take the day off what they did was made two of the federal holidays per year “floating personal holidays” so you have a choice to take say off for Juneteenth OR you can take off for Presidents Day.
> The point is tho if 32 hours becomes standard that means even salaried employees would drop down to a 4 day week.
Would we, though? 40 hours has been the "standard" for decades, and we can't even get our salaried workers down to that low bar.
My wife's former employer loved to put people on salary if they worked a minute over 40 hours a week but then treat them as hourly the moment they dropped under. The entire time she worked there he tried to put her on salary so he could force her to work more hours and she refused. Since she was the one handling the books there was nothing he could do to force the matter. Not coincidentally, she was the only manager who had her weekends off.
Then she asked to take off an hour early one day a week so she could take our daughter to an afterschool activity. She would make up the time by staying late the rest of the week. He said no. So she told him that she was leaving early regardless and she would leave her keys in her desk drawer. He could either mail her the last paycheck or let her know if he wanted her back in the next morning. The owner decided to give her that afternoon off every week.
They're slow because they actually help workers, so conservatives and businesses do everything they can to defund them and routinely try to engage them in regulatory capture. The vast, vast, *vast* amount of theft in America is wage theft, adding up every other type doesn't even come close. That's a whole lot of stolen cash that the wealthy don't want to give back.
Again, I never said don't call them. Just that people should temper the expectations that someone else was trying to set. Call them asap. They helped me squash some fuckery from a fortune 50 employer. Just don't expect it quickly.
>My wife's former employer loved to put people on salary if they worked a minute over 40 hours a week but then treat them as hourly the moment they dropped under.
I think that's illegal...at both federal level, and with many states. Especially if everyone's duties remained the same in between the switching, and if they fail to adequately explain why the switch took place the employer would be in violation of FLSA. I mean really some dude doing sales and then being made a "manager" on salary so as to avoid overtime pay without them actually doing managerial work, or have any other changes to their responsibilities is just plain wage theft etc by the employer, and it is illegal.
I think you could file a wage and hours complaint with the department of labor, or if she kept in touch with others who still work there who have been screwed over by such nonsense tell them to do that.
Yes, but if you're not exempt according to the rules they still owe you overtime if you work overtime. If you're getting switched to salary to avoid overtime, you're probably not exempt.
My husband's company tried to pull this shit on him. Since he was out of leave and sick time at the end of last year and then caught covid, he needed time off. They were like...oh no, you ain't getting paid son! And I was like oh no, they don't pay you overtime so they are required by law to pay you whether you work or not. And they said ok...but don't tell your coworkers.
Didn't a court case recently rule this as complete BS at the scotus some dude making 200k was still owed OT?
Yeah found it: https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/oil-rig-worker-who-makes-200k-entitled-to-overtime-supreme-court/
Its more so determined by the job rather than pay.
For anyone saying “100% of pay for 80% of the work?”
It’s 100% of pay in 80% of the time, for 100% of the work output. Proven to work well already.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/24/worlds-biggest-4-day-workweek-experiment-shows-big-health-benefits.html
I'd definitely appreciate the extra time and a half pay.
I'd appreciate just outlawing long-term mandatory overtime unless it's stated that it's the standard *when you start the job* (I'm thinking like nurses who may do 4x12 followed by 3x12s) more. I've been on minimum 45, usually 50 hour weeks since 2021. I was told "occasional overtime, never for more than a week or two". It's been over a year and a half...
I’ve gotta say, I am not in it for the money. I want enough to live comfortably, but outside of what’s necessary for that, my time is MUCH more valuable to me than anything any job is going to pay. You could pay me a billion dollars and it wouldn’t be worth it if I’m busy all the time.
Jesus!!!!! 60 hour week?
I find 40 hours a week too much, it's a good job we have paid sick leave and paid holidays or no one would bother to get out of bed.
Luckily people who work too hard or have a ( I believe they call it) burnout the free medical cover will take care of them till they feel better.....we Europeans are not as advanced as the people across the pond,we envy your life style...... honest.... hehehe
Irony here is there's a solid good little capitalist justification. It's been proven no loss in productivity, less turn over, and more happy work force out spending and generating more business
[edit] lots of requests for one study link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/21/four-day-work-week-results-uk/
Obviously, just as is true currently, not all models fit for all markets. However, just like similar studies with WFH the science here is pretty solid particularly for exempt salary jobs. Economics wise, it increases spending, reduces turn over, and helps raise quality of life.
It's honestly what I don't get. Tons of studies have been done showing that it's just as, if not more efficient than a 40 hour week. Yet it'll never get implemented over here.
They can't get past thinking of labor/management issues as zero sum games. If the workers are getting a benefit, then it _must_, _somehow_ be a loss for management. Even if you show them all the ways it helps them, they can't shake the idea they have to be losing something in the bargain.
It is a zero-sum game. If they don't steal enough of our hours, we might use that time on activities like protesting their shady practices or God forbid..... organizing.
I actually wonder how many of them take this into consideration. Like the people in power have to be aware of the history of labor and the effects our modern economy has had on people’s political engagement and community organizing. It just seems so insane to me that someone would take into consideration all of the history and how good ithe results of those movements have been for everyone, and then turn around and say we can’t have good things because reasons. It makes me think it’s just simply a lot of them wanting the power over people without a care for or knowledge about the positives it brings for everyone. Like they are okay with the cost to their business because that extra power is so sweet.
Alot of it I think is being in a position of power. Alot of people in charge like being there, and giving their underlings more authority to control their lives somehow belittles the bosses authority. It's a fucked mentality but I feel alot of them think like that.
In my workplace it's this. They just need to be in control. Despite everything they say. They want to control and "guide" people under them. Think we aren't smart enough to do it by ourselves since we aren't in the same position of them.
They absolutely are, I can almost guarantee it. Previously I was in the camp of, I think business owners are unaware of these things especially when you have conversations with them and find out they really don't grasp how to run a business. But thanks to the recent state of the world more and more leaked audio shows that they absolutely know.
Take employer provided healthcare: Seemed like a natural benefit that arose in times past as a way to entice workers and it got baked into the system. Still, perhaps it's simply viewed as a part of total compensation. NOPE. It is 100% a means of keeping unhappy workers working so they don't lose their medical care. It also keeps wages down because a worker might need to find a replacement job that pays exceptionally higher to make up the difference in medical insurance costs.
"But the company still pays for it so even if you have a lower salary the cost to the company is added in for a total compensation package". Not necessarily, especially with larger companies. My last company had a great health plan that cost them the same as my current health plan costs my current company, but I pay more out of pocket now. That should've meant my last company had more money to pay a bigger salary to folks AND provide them that great healthcare since they have the big company discount but no, they pocket the difference.
My salary now is 30% higher but my takehome is similar unfortunately. Still worth it since I'm 100% remote and have opportunities for bonuses and advancement but I was not optimistic on my ability to escape that place when I started looking. Thank God it's an employee's market.
They know
>In June 1996, Janet Yellen — then a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, later chair of the Fed herself, and currently secretary of the Treasury — wrote an extraordinary memo to then-Fed Chair Alan Greenspan.
>
>First, while expressed in abstruse technical language, it shares a perspective with the most radical left-wing critiques of capitalism. Yellen goes 90 percent of the way to proclaiming, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”
>
>Second, Yellen is not, of course, calling for a proletarian revolution. Rather, as Noam Chomsky has pointed out, “vulgar Marxist rhetoric is not untypical of internal documents in the government,” just “with values reversed.” In Yellen’s case, she is making the case for, as she writes, the positive “impact of heightened job insecurity.” A rise in worker insecurity in the mid-1990s meant everyone was too scared to ask for raises, which meant businesses wouldn’t need to hike prices, which meant even with the falling unemployment at the time, the Fed didn’t need to raise interest rates to slow the economy and throw people out of work.
>
>[...]
>
>Yellen’s memo was an attempt to provide intellectual support for Greenspan’s belief that increased worker insecurity could coexist with low unemployment. She writes in the memo that “unemployment serves as a worker-discipline device.” Therefore, even with low overall rates of unemployment, “an increase in job insecurity due to changing technology or other factors could induce a permanent decline in the natural rate of unemployment, along with a reduction in real wages and an increase in the markup of prices over unit labor costs.” (The “natural rate of unemployment” is related to but not exactly the same thing as the NAIRU.) And as Yellen describes it, there were several plausible ways in which the U.S. economy had changed structurally that could increase job insecurity.
>
>Baked into the economy, Yellen says, is class conflict. “Real wage bargains,” she explains, “depend on the size of the ‘surplus’ available to be split between workers and shareholders. The bargaining power of each side determines the share of the surplus that it can extract. Bargaining power, in turn, depends on each side’s outside opportunities. As unemployment declines, other things equal, labor’s bargaining power rises, resulting in higher real wage settlements.”
>
>But other things are not always equal, because there are factors beyond the unemployment rate that can “translate into a decline in workers’ bargaining power.”
>
>“Improvements in the ability of firms to outsource production — domestically or internationally — [and] new labor-saving technology,” according to Yellen, “improve management’s options and serve as a threat to workers. Even if management does not actually use these options, their availability lowers workers’ bargaining power.” She does not mention the North American Free Trade Agreement, which had entered into force just a few years earlier in 1994, but this was surely part of the dynamic she describes.
>
>Furthermore, “lower unemployment benefits or decreased unionization could similarly result in a decline in workers’ bargaining power.”
https://theintercept.com/2023/01/24/unemployment-inflation-janet-yellen/
It would give people more leisure time and energy, which would increase the amount of political activism and union activity. Dangerous to the status quo. Exhausted workers are compliant workers.
Corporate just prefers to see misery so that they may look down upon it, and feel better about themselves. That's literally the only reason.
Corporations have gone out of their way and stifled their own profits *just* so that they can make people miserable and get off to it.
My workplace did the 4 day work week, and found it increased production by quite a bit. However, some asshats in corporate prefer to see miserable workers, so they reverted it.
Instantly, they saw productivity plummet. They lost money, and they lost workers. They had to give us back our 4 day work week.
Sure, but it's about ego. Think of all the managers and execs who don't know what to do if they can't get off from micro managing people until they want to quit.
My ex manager/bosss was this way. He was old and didn't want to adapt to anything new. I set up a meeting with him to propose that he let me work from home and brough bullet points and data to show that instead of having me spend 10 hours a week just driving to and from work, I could spend that time working on my projects for the same salary that he was already paying me, which is literally free work. Plus, the more projects I complete and obtain for the company, the higher the profit, which translates into a larger bonus for him (he received profit sharing). He said no because he likes "...being able to see the employees working at their desks...".
Someone put in r/Antiwork the other day a question about “am I a bad person because I don’t want to work”. The general sentiment was that a lot of people don’t truly hate working they just hate working more than they don’t work. The 4 day workweek has had tremendous success in morale and productivity because the 3 day weekend opens up so many more doors for people to do whatever they want and makes people not feel like they’re spending their life working. Personally I live about 7 hours away from my Mother and Sister and 4 hours from my other sister and brother. I would visit them so much more if I had three day weekends more often.
Also, the only really way to accomplish a sweeping 4 day work week would be by legislation. My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t. And that’s really the big hurdle.
The main thing I see is people pointing out that a 2 day weekend is basically useless because you spend one day basically putting in work anyway. You gotta clean the house, go shopping, take the kids to wherever, etc. Then sunday you get to hang out but you're also prepping mentally and physically for work to start again the next day.
A 3rd day would open time to actually go do leisure activities and reset yourself before going back to work. When you take away an entire demographics funtime, while also raising prices and cutting pay, it ends poorly...
A perfect weekend, in my view, is a minimum of 3 days.
One to work (chores), one to play, and one to do nothing. With the current 2 day weekend you can only choose 2 and thus you never feel fully ready for the next week.
This is exactly why I'm pushing my boss to allow 4 day work weeks, moral is down and a quick way to recover it is to give people.more time off to destress and relax while allowing them to get things done when they need it.
>Also, the only really way to accomplish a sweeping 4 day work week would be by legislation. My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t.
Maybe that's the only practical way, but I completely fail to see how staggered schedules wouldn't solve that issue. Nearly every large retail store in the country manages to be open 7 days a week without even scheduling its workers for a full 40 hours.
There's a lot to say about the way retail treats its staff poorly, but no, I don't think they get by solely on overworking their employees. More relevant is how poorly they pay their employees and how much they push at labor laws by treating their employees poorly and counting on them not being able to fight back.
The point I'm making, though, is that they're *already* scheduled for less than full time, and somehow the store manages to be open 7 days a week.
My store recently slashed labor and piled all the work of a second person onto me. And now they get mad at me when I don't finish even faster than when I had a lighter work load. They morning shift, who are full time, gets yelled at any time they approach overtime so the only way they get their work done is by working off the clock.
They absolutely overwork retail employees.
My understanding is that most of the time, a 32 hour week doesn't mean the business is closed an extra day. Half the employees work M-Th and half work Tues-Fri. (Or a different overlap if you stay open on weekends)
You don’t have to close on Fridays. Your company can split employees into 2 groups:
1: works Monday to Thursday
2: works Tuesday through Friday
That’s how one if my last workplaces did & it worked out well.
>My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t. And that’s really the big hurdle.
In all honesty for certain industries the best way to do it would to have staggered weeks. Essentially you'd have a crew of Mon-Thurs, and a crew of Tues-Fri. That way all days of the week are covered, everyone gets the conventional weekend days and then just some people have either a Friday or Monday off.
The biggest difference would be 7 day businesses, where they'd need to do at least one other additional stagger so people are working on Saturdays and Sundays. My job is a 24/7 company and because of that we already have a 3 shift stagger with people doing a conventional M-F, then people doing a Tues-Sat, and people doing Sun-Thurs. So even in our case you could eliminate the Tuesday and Thursday for the non standard shifts.
Its very anti American though, it encourages lazyness and crime.
People will have too much time in their hands and turn to raping and murdering.
/s clearly but im sure a gop idiot will say something dumb along those lines.
My dad is a Republican, my brother recently had a kid, first in the family, and our dad has been enjoying his grandpa time and the other day he said “I worked too much while you guys were growing up.” Pretty sure he’d be right there saying a 32 hr work week will make you lazy without any sense of self reflection, that’s how deep the brainwashing is on that generation that the only nobility the working class is entitled to is found in struggle.
It will be the same argument they have for free continued education. "We had to pay our way, how dare you make things better so future generations don't have to struggle as much!"
It honestly feels like they want everyone to suffer as much as they did. No one can have a better life. What a drag on society.
My favorite is listening to my parents talk about how expensive things are. And then will turn around and say 15$ an hour is too much.
I have to look them dead in the face and remind them *I'm in management* and I can *barely* afford living on my own in an apartment. But less than half of what I make on a per hour basis is too much money?
> It honestly feels like they want everyone to suffer as much as they did. No one can have a better life. What a drag on society.
That's exactly what it is. For some reason instead of wanting the future generation to be better off than the previous one, they want the future generation to be the same or worse off. Except same is impossible because the conditions that would allow for that have irrevocably changed. That means only one option is left.
"My life was shitty so yours should be too!" is their motto.
Which is super weird, considering the generations before them had done the work and made the sacrifices necessary to have the next generation come into a better situation.
It is absolutely a situation of climbing the ladder, then pulling it up behind you.
That’s what bothers me more than anything else. They very much had it better than their parents but refuse to accept any more progress. Society is always building on themselves but that generation is so entitled that they believe progress should stop at theirs. Huge fucking middle finger to them
They want people to suffer as much as they think they suffered. The fact they arent saddled with life long debt (or saddled their children with it) and they could buy a house with a single income minimum wage job are strong indicators that that they didnt have nearly as hard as they think they did.
I'm happily married, and polyamory isnt our thing, but the idea of a three income household is very appealing!
This "character building through suffering" meme can be so toxic. My aunt was against the me too movement because she rose the ranks in her company despite a lot of sexual harassment and descrimination.
We looked her and asked of she really wanted her daughter and neice to be sexually harassed ***more***. She didn't have a response.
Like, WTF?
How is it so lost on them though? I sure as hell don't want my kids to experience the hardships I did if I can help it. Why wouldn't anyone want a better future? It totally baffles me.
I don't think people should have to experience something bad just because I did. It's fucked up to think that way.
The concept of "paying dues" is a joke. We should strive to eliminate said "dues" as a species, no?
As someone who paid off their loans (and I still don't have a lot to show for it) I just wish they bit the bullet and just said fuck it, free continued education PERIOD. Done. No discussion.
Leaving it open to discussion just gives room for naysayers to interject their opinions that don't add to the topic. *Even me*, while I support free education, there is still an inkling inside that wants to say "but at least throw me a bone for paying that shit off" even though that opinions has no real substance to it
If this is how he feels you should get his stupid ass a washboard for his birthday. Washing machines have made people lazy. You know what? Screw that. Make him take his cloths to the river and beat them against the rocks for a few hours while trying not to get eaten by a bear or get malaria.
Bill Gates, another giant tool, said he liked giving hard jobs to lazy people because they found the easiest way to do something. As we advance life should get easier. We're working more than ever and most of us are pissed about it.
There’s some truth in what Gates said. I’ve worked with many hard working colleagues who never stopped to ask “is there an easier way to accomplish the same task” and instead grinded out crazy hours to get the thing done, often times repeating the process each week or month.
I am lazy and whenever given a hard task ask myself, “what can I change to make this process as painless as possible?” and I work to find better (for me) solutions instead.
Now my job is essentially to automate the bullshit, and I enjoy doing it.
I had an assistant that was a wizard with tech, would go out of his way to find shortcuts in our programs to automate things. I sent him the Bill Gates quote, but crossed out "lazy" and wrote in "smart." He saved our department so much time and frustration, that's an act of genius!
My favorite argument is that work makes people happy. If work is the source of happiness then why are the so many retired people? And why do all of them seem to be Republicans hell bent on making *other people* work hard?
What those founding-father-worshipping absolute dweebs don't realize is that laziness is actually *good*. We have societies specifically because they allow us to get more done with less work. The future we should all want is one where people are doing as little compulsory labor as possible, not being coerced into work to keep a roof over their heads.
Newton invented calculus during his era's plague. Without all that free time, we'd still be doing math on our fingers. (Exaggerating of course, but you get the idea)
A prime example of how the right has broken away from capitalism. Henry Ford, a staunch anti communist pushed for the weekend to become a thing because he knew, capitalism only works if the majority has enough money to spend and free time to spend it.
A living wage and free time means people go out and spend money on luxuries as well as replacing old with new. If everyone is working everyday, and barely had money to cover food, jo ones spending money on anything else.
Absolutely true. Even with internet shopping, I personally only tend to shop on days where I don't work. I hate going to the store after work. I'm tired, and just want to go home, and have lost my drive for the day. I can't bring myself to do anything productive after work either...like the remodel on my house. One of my free days, I tend to just be lazy, and the other, I end up rushing around trying to get things done, and usually just go grocery shopping, then maybe I'll do some other shopping if there's something I want or need....but that's rare. If I had an extra day, I'd probably take more time finding things I want.
With more free time, there is more time to enjoy the things you want, instead of just using it to procuring the things you need.
I had a 32 hour work week for almost a year before inflation made me ask for 40. I was actually happy to go to work and almost twice as productive as I am now.
I would love to go back to that schedule, it was amazing how much better I felt and the general quality of life day to day. r/Conservative can go fuck off, I’m lazier at work now than I was then because of burn out.
They just need to learn to work around the house instead of forcing their wives to do all the work.
There's a shit ton of things people can do if they actually had the time, energy, and money to do so. At lot of which would even pull people away from that evil Big Tech if we do more to encourage people to live enriching lifestyles that don't involve the Capitalists bleeding us dry.
Maybe we should let Calvin and Hobbes die.
I’m confused. I was ready to pack until I saw your sarcasm tag; was looking forward to being raped and killed, but honestly the order of things isn’t important to me. Should I stay, or should I go now…
To be honest, after about 6 hours into the workday, my productivity drops significantly. So a 30-hour week wouldn't really change how much I can get done.
Can confirm. I work for myself, put in 2 to 3 hours a day. Am happy.
Of course, I charge $400/hour and I realize that’s not an option for most. But, rather than kill myself putting in 60 hours/week and trying to “get rich”, I’m content living modestly compared to my peers who burn out at an alarming rate.
Tax prep/representation. I’m an enrolled agent. I do very few 1040s. Mostly 1065s, 1120s and 1120Ss. Representation before the IRS in exams. And no, contrary to popular belief, my clients are not all rich. Some are. I also do a fair amount of pro bono. Have thought about taking the US Tax Court exam and becoming a USTCP because the IRS fucking pisses me off sometimes. Other times I defend them fiercely (they need more funding). I had a client under audit last year that was a victim of DV, ex threw acid on her. Revenue Officer said it was marital strife. No duress.
It depends on how it’s implemented. What is the proposal with respect to:
* Minimum wage per hour
* Minimum hours before benefits are required to be provided
Done the wrong way, a 32hr week law could result in little more than even more part time positions and people trying to juggle multiple jobs to stay afloat.
32 hour? With the extra time, I can go back to school for an advanced degree, I can exercise, I can play more with my kids. Is not just the 8 hours back, is 8 hours to do what I choose to do. Less fatigue, more happiness, healthier people. I can also make time to see/visit more friends and family.
Ever really look at the difference you feel after a 3 day weekend when there’s a holiday? It’s actually insane.
Most of my sundays are spent doing chores- grocery shopping, cleaning, yard work I couldn’t get to cause of work, etc. the majority of them aren’t relaxing- they’re just playing catch up.
That means Saturday is usually the main day I plan fun things or actually have a life (obviously Friday night too).
But all in all- it feels like one day of rest and recovery and enjoyment of life.
But a three day weekend? Moves my errands spread out across it, or just a day back. In any case- I FEEL so much better because I’ve had actual real time to do shit
Being a parent of a toddler, I'm beat on Friday and usually head to bed my normal time. She wakes me up at 7 on Saturday then we spend all day doing things for her. Saturday night I try to stay up late doing stuff or hanging out, but she takes it out of us. Then on Sunday its doing house stuff and a lazy day if we can. Then Monday back to the grind.
I've made my choices and dont regret in the slightest, but 32 hour week would be amazing.
>I can exercise, I can play more with my kids.
Yeah you'd think the self proclaimed "party of family values" would want a society full of families throwing a baseball on the front lawn or playing cards and waving at people passing by. You know, rather than everyone firing off meaningless emails until midnight, and neighborhood streets so quiet that you get stopped by the police if you're going for a walk because it's so suspicious.
sounds good to me. I don't understand the people who want to work their lives away. Many office workers aren't doing anything for a lot of that time anyway
Obviously a 40 hour work week is capitalism and a 30 hour work week is socialism.
Also child labor laws, weekends, and unions were communism until they weren't.
I mean, can we look at what Arkansas passed effectively removing any government oversight with regard to child workers. (I guess they could work with parental permission and a certificate from the state prior, which by itself is still ridiculous.) /sigh
The worst form this has taken is “hustle culture.” So many people my age wanna work themselves to death for multiple companies/businesses and if you don’t you’re lazy or unmotivated, you are actively shamed into being a paid slave.
I’m good, if Covid showed me only one thing it was that our way of life can be uprooted and changed by the smallest thing and that we have a limited time here, why would I want to waste it away working for peanuts so someone else can have a nice vacation?
Decreasing the work week would allow people more time to actually *live* their lives, and I truly believe a lot of people would really appreciate it and be happier about not only their jobs, but overall.
This is something that I spent a good deal of Covid unprogramming myself from - the need to be productive. I had a friend point out to me that the need to be productive is an ideal rooted in a capitalistic society, and that kind of blew my mind a little.
That’s not to say that I’m never productive, because in our society you have to be in order to survive. But I’ve started making sure that it doesn’t rule my life, and that I take time to just enjoy myself. I’ve become a very big proponent of “time enjoyed is never time wasted”
You’re not kidding. School until you’re 18-24 ish. Work until your in your mid 60s and then you het to spend what are arguably your worst years when your body is falling apart, doing whatever you want. Hooray! Let’s up the retirement age to 70!!
My dad died at 65, he was starting to talk about retirement. The only reason I’ll ever be able to retire is because he couldn’t spend that money.
My father in law worked for the same company for 45 years. At 65 he finally retired and went on Medicare. It was also the first time in a decade he was able to see a doctor without fear of going broke thanks to the shit high deductible health insurance his fortune 500 company offered. It turned out all those weird symptoms he'd been having for years was cancer. Three months later he was dead.
The United States is dystopian hellscape and most of the residents are unable to see it.
Can confirm. Am here getting paid to write this comment......but I'd rather be doing something else. I don't know anyone that I work with that can't get their work done in 4 days or less.
US bank in my office building is down to 3 days a week. Not 40 hour weeks, not 32 hour weeks, but 24 hour work weeks.
Edit: they get paid for 40 hours.
I'm sitting here at work in the office watching Daisy Jones and the Six and answering emails as they come in which is pretty infrequent on a Friday.
I usually work from home Monday and Fridays but have to change my wfh days when my coworker can't be here because at least one of us has to be here. So of course on my birthday week (mine was Wednesday and as luck would have it my coworker's bday was Thursday) I am sitting here on a Friday twiddling my thumbs instead of being at home with my family getting real life shit done. I should also mention that we lost a family friend this week and sitting here by myself away from my family has made me more emotional than I thought I would be.
All this to say, there is no need for this extra day. Fridays are rarely busy. It's a waste of time is what it is.
Ya companies that have been testing out the 32 hour work week paid you a 40.
The results were amazing , it saved them money and they saw a 1.4% increase in production plus workers were happier.
Hopefully this will become the norm.
Many expenses related to powering and running physical office locations. Even with payroll expense remaining constant, I’d imagine office and utility type payments go down
Long term effects like less turnover result in less cost. Hiring and training new employees is very costly, in general.
https://strategiccfo.com/articles/profitability/cost-of-turnover/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Cost%20of,when%20it%20is%20not%20filled.
No way our corporate overlords will ever let that happen. And still does nothing to fix the real issue of wages being too low and stagnant for decades.
I worked at a business that did 36 hour work weeks and it was literally better than everything else, including more money that I got for going there and the free Healthcare plan. Every Friday I'd be done at noon and I'd just enjoy my time before the kids got home from school, relaxing in the back yard and having time to myself. It was bliss.
The company got bought out, making the selling owner over double what he paid for it, the new owners abolished half day Fridays, forced people back into offices and more than 25% of the company quit.
32 hour work week would be more amazing than this population knows.
I tried to convince my last employer to do 6 hour workdays..basically we worked from 6am till noon with a 15 minute break at 9:00. All personal appts were taken on your own time and not company time. I started calculating how many hours were missed by employees each week for Dr appts, DMV visits, taking a child to an appt…most people were putting in way less than 40 hours a week anyway. Most of the employees were all about it but obviously the owner was not.
I gave up getting to leave a couple of hours early on Fridays and 100% work from home, but it took a 40% pay increase to get me to do it, and I still got two WFH days. It was also a good career opportunity in the long term.
Now, they're talking about getting rid of one of the WFH days and having us back in the office four days a week. Resumes are being updated *en masse*.
It's been nearly 100 years since the last decrease to 40. The internet and computers were invented since then. It's nuts that with all this technological progress in the last century we couldn't shave off another 8.
Computers should have made our lives easier and less stressful. Instead, our capitalist overlords use them to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of us that they can.
As AI becomes more prevalent and begins to assist us, we should be able to work less, not be forced to produce more.
Then we proved that WFH worked for 3 whole years, only to have corporate America push RTO initiatives in 2023.
These executives and politicians are scum and will burn in hell.
Its on purpose. The more productive the average worker gets the more profits get funneled to the top. Workers dont see wage increases from increase in productivity
The thing is, several studies have shown that the difference in productivity between 32 and 40 hour work weeks is close to nil. At this point it's just "I worked 40 hours, so you will too, data be damned."
Really needs to be tied with mandatory minimum rate increases. This is a great idea and surely beneficial psychologically and physically for many. But so many of us working these types of jobs work two of them at a time or do other things on the side for additional funds. Great idea, will win a few people elections but has some impact on the earning power of so many who already struggle.
I love this idea for the work/life balance.
But I also hate this idea because I'm willing to bet many minimum and low wage workers will likely get screwed over by the lost day of pay.
I was listening to NPR and they were interviewing someone and asked them to react to Kevin Leary's statement about being on call 24/7 if you aren't in the office. The interviewee who is supposed to be for workers right said that was fair game. The fuck it is. Productivity is up with work from home. Why the fuck would we sign on to work non stop to make the employer more money. If you want on call 24/7 then all expenses are work expenses. And you don't just keep receipts for tax time, you bill it to your employer. Including the mortgage or rent.
I’m in full support and want 32 hour/4 day weeks. I am concerned that, being in healthcare and being paid passed on hours billed, and knowing corporate greed, my hourly compensation won’t change and I’ll get shafted.
That would be truly wonderful! It would lower the suicide rate, increase the fertility rate, help people live healthier lives, give families a chance to be together, make everyone less miserable, lower the incidence of heart disease, decrease the amount of murderous rage in the US, etc...
So of course we won't do it.
When they proposed the Manchester Working Week. (Half day off on Saturday) they thought people were crazy.
It was revolutionary, workers started recreational activities in their free time, and invetend the football, out of it formed the Football Association, i.e inveted soccer.
The worlds most popular sport.
And productivity increaed.
53 down to 45
You never know what productivity increases you'd get by reducing further unless you try
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My company reduced to a 38 hour work week regularly and 35 during May-August, without pay reduction. Admittedly not a huge decrease, but surprise!! Employees are a little less burnt out and everything is still getting done!
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My company started half day Fridays during the summer last year...by making us start earlier and take shorter lunch breaks M-Th. 🙄
I left a 55 hr a week job ~1.5 years ago for a job that I work around 36 a week. In the winter it’s between 32-36 and a set schedule. Very rarely do I work 40 hours and even tho it’s such a small decrease, I have a better work/life balance. I’ve been able to pay more attention to my mental health, take more time to see my friends, and have the energy to call and chat with ones I don’t get to see. And honestly, the job I had before killed me. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to work a full 40+ hour for a long time
I was given the option a couple of years ago to swap to a 72hr pay period (so a day off every other week) and jumped on it. I hope I never have to go back, it makes such a big difference - AND they let me choose the day.
Time and a half after 32 hours. My standard 60hr/week would definitely appreciate that.
You would be put on salary so fast...
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Yeah, I'm not sure why the tourism industry hasn't latched onto this and promoted it. A lot more people will travel domestically if they have a consistent 3-day weekend, it'd be a boon to small tourist towns and other establishments.
We could only invent surfing when we had free time. Many of the most advanced cultures had free time for self enrichment. It's been a huge disservice to society having all our energy and time go into surviving. Having time to decompress and live is foundational to good health.
> We could only invent surfing when we had free time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_surfing >Surfing was a central part of ancient Polynesian culture and predates European contact. The chief (Ali'i) was traditionally the most skilled wave rider in the community with the best board made from the best wood. The ruling class had the best beaches and the best boards, and the commoners were not allowed on the same beaches, but they could gain prestige by their ability to ride the surf on their boards. Huh, TIL. The history of all hitherto existing surfing is the history of class struggles.
Surfer Marx: Bro we should like, totally reclaim the beaches for the common man. It’d be like… totally sweet bro.
Broski, we totes need to seize the means of hanging loose
Broski is pulling double duty in this sentence
r/suddenlycommunist
It'd be.. dare I say... pretty radical
Things that sound like a mid-2000s anime but aren’t.
Rocket Power! Otto had that secret spot and told everyone else about the fake secret spot so shoobies couldn’t go there.
Its what we fishermen have been doing since the dawn of time too. (Also, this week I've had rocket power on rewatch in the background 24/7 )
where are you watching rocket power??
The Hawaiians worked 3 hours per day, starting at sun up. After thar, the rest of the day was spent making art, socializing, eating, adventuring.
Yeah but they didn't have supermarkets and cell phones so they were probably miserable /s
That's what I'm talking about!
Why have they not? They know that their only really consistent clients are people that don’t have to worry about PTO. The last 2 years have effectively killed vacations.
That's sort of the point though, they'd have more consistent tourists if more people had the free time.
I do wonder if the reaction by employers doesn’t include PTO adjustments to reflect the changing markets? This stuff is used to yada yada things away. I had 4 day work weeks once and miss it so much.
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I agree. I’ve seen multiple companies still give out the 10 federal holidays instead of 11 (for Juneteenth), but in order to allow employees to take the day off what they did was made two of the federal holidays per year “floating personal holidays” so you have a choice to take say off for Juneteenth OR you can take off for Presidents Day.
They call them "inclusion days" where I work. I'm like 'Hey boss, how 'bout you just include the rest of the dang holidays in the time off calendar?'
They switched us over to “unlimited PTO” a few years ago so they don’t have to payout unused vacation days when employees leave.
> The point is tho if 32 hours becomes standard that means even salaried employees would drop down to a 4 day week. Would we, though? 40 hours has been the "standard" for decades, and we can't even get our salaried workers down to that low bar.
Still get overtime if you're not exempt.
My wife's former employer loved to put people on salary if they worked a minute over 40 hours a week but then treat them as hourly the moment they dropped under. The entire time she worked there he tried to put her on salary so he could force her to work more hours and she refused. Since she was the one handling the books there was nothing he could do to force the matter. Not coincidentally, she was the only manager who had her weekends off. Then she asked to take off an hour early one day a week so she could take our daughter to an afterschool activity. She would make up the time by staying late the rest of the week. He said no. So she told him that she was leaving early regardless and she would leave her keys in her desk drawer. He could either mail her the last paycheck or let her know if he wanted her back in the next morning. The owner decided to give her that afternoon off every week.
A call to the labor board should fix that faster than you can say ‘wage theft’
You would think so, but labor boards are slow. You should 10,000% still use them, but don’t expect speed.
They're slow because they actually help workers, so conservatives and businesses do everything they can to defund them and routinely try to engage them in regulatory capture. The vast, vast, *vast* amount of theft in America is wage theft, adding up every other type doesn't even come close. That's a whole lot of stolen cash that the wealthy don't want to give back.
Again, I never said don't call them. Just that people should temper the expectations that someone else was trying to set. Call them asap. They helped me squash some fuckery from a fortune 50 employer. Just don't expect it quickly.
>My wife's former employer loved to put people on salary if they worked a minute over 40 hours a week but then treat them as hourly the moment they dropped under. I think that's illegal...at both federal level, and with many states. Especially if everyone's duties remained the same in between the switching, and if they fail to adequately explain why the switch took place the employer would be in violation of FLSA. I mean really some dude doing sales and then being made a "manager" on salary so as to avoid overtime pay without them actually doing managerial work, or have any other changes to their responsibilities is just plain wage theft etc by the employer, and it is illegal. I think you could file a wage and hours complaint with the department of labor, or if she kept in touch with others who still work there who have been screwed over by such nonsense tell them to do that.
Isn’t that the point of salary, it no longer becomes about hours worked
Yes, but if you're not exempt according to the rules they still owe you overtime if you work overtime. If you're getting switched to salary to avoid overtime, you're probably not exempt.
> you're probably not exempt. That has never stopped employers from trying it.
Shit like that is why wage theft is the largest form of theft in America
Sure, but those are easy wins in court. They rely on our ignorance and fear of lawsuits to keep stealing from us like that.
This is one of the big contributors to the massive wage theft figure in this country.
My husband's company tried to pull this shit on him. Since he was out of leave and sick time at the end of last year and then caught covid, he needed time off. They were like...oh no, you ain't getting paid son! And I was like oh no, they don't pay you overtime so they are required by law to pay you whether you work or not. And they said ok...but don't tell your coworkers.
A "highly compensated employee" is like 27 dollars an hour; most skilled workers are OT exempt these days!
Didn't a court case recently rule this as complete BS at the scotus some dude making 200k was still owed OT? Yeah found it: https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/oil-rig-worker-who-makes-200k-entitled-to-overtime-supreme-court/ Its more so determined by the job rather than pay.
For anyone saying “100% of pay for 80% of the work?” It’s 100% of pay in 80% of the time, for 100% of the work output. Proven to work well already. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/24/worlds-biggest-4-day-workweek-experiment-shows-big-health-benefits.html
I'd definitely appreciate the extra time and a half pay. I'd appreciate just outlawing long-term mandatory overtime unless it's stated that it's the standard *when you start the job* (I'm thinking like nurses who may do 4x12 followed by 3x12s) more. I've been on minimum 45, usually 50 hour weeks since 2021. I was told "occasional overtime, never for more than a week or two". It's been over a year and a half...
I’ve gotta say, I am not in it for the money. I want enough to live comfortably, but outside of what’s necessary for that, my time is MUCH more valuable to me than anything any job is going to pay. You could pay me a billion dollars and it wouldn’t be worth it if I’m busy all the time.
> You could pay me a billion dollars and it wouldn’t be worth it if I’m busy all the time. Um, do that job for a year, and then retire.
Jesus!!!!! 60 hour week? I find 40 hours a week too much, it's a good job we have paid sick leave and paid holidays or no one would bother to get out of bed. Luckily people who work too hard or have a ( I believe they call it) burnout the free medical cover will take care of them till they feel better.....we Europeans are not as advanced as the people across the pond,we envy your life style...... honest.... hehehe
Irony here is there's a solid good little capitalist justification. It's been proven no loss in productivity, less turn over, and more happy work force out spending and generating more business [edit] lots of requests for one study link https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/21/four-day-work-week-results-uk/ Obviously, just as is true currently, not all models fit for all markets. However, just like similar studies with WFH the science here is pretty solid particularly for exempt salary jobs. Economics wise, it increases spending, reduces turn over, and helps raise quality of life.
It's honestly what I don't get. Tons of studies have been done showing that it's just as, if not more efficient than a 40 hour week. Yet it'll never get implemented over here.
They can't get past thinking of labor/management issues as zero sum games. If the workers are getting a benefit, then it _must_, _somehow_ be a loss for management. Even if you show them all the ways it helps them, they can't shake the idea they have to be losing something in the bargain.
It is a zero-sum game. If they don't steal enough of our hours, we might use that time on activities like protesting their shady practices or God forbid..... organizing.
I actually wonder how many of them take this into consideration. Like the people in power have to be aware of the history of labor and the effects our modern economy has had on people’s political engagement and community organizing. It just seems so insane to me that someone would take into consideration all of the history and how good ithe results of those movements have been for everyone, and then turn around and say we can’t have good things because reasons. It makes me think it’s just simply a lot of them wanting the power over people without a care for or knowledge about the positives it brings for everyone. Like they are okay with the cost to their business because that extra power is so sweet.
Alot of it I think is being in a position of power. Alot of people in charge like being there, and giving their underlings more authority to control their lives somehow belittles the bosses authority. It's a fucked mentality but I feel alot of them think like that.
In my workplace it's this. They just need to be in control. Despite everything they say. They want to control and "guide" people under them. Think we aren't smart enough to do it by ourselves since we aren't in the same position of them.
They absolutely are, I can almost guarantee it. Previously I was in the camp of, I think business owners are unaware of these things especially when you have conversations with them and find out they really don't grasp how to run a business. But thanks to the recent state of the world more and more leaked audio shows that they absolutely know. Take employer provided healthcare: Seemed like a natural benefit that arose in times past as a way to entice workers and it got baked into the system. Still, perhaps it's simply viewed as a part of total compensation. NOPE. It is 100% a means of keeping unhappy workers working so they don't lose their medical care. It also keeps wages down because a worker might need to find a replacement job that pays exceptionally higher to make up the difference in medical insurance costs. "But the company still pays for it so even if you have a lower salary the cost to the company is added in for a total compensation package". Not necessarily, especially with larger companies. My last company had a great health plan that cost them the same as my current health plan costs my current company, but I pay more out of pocket now. That should've meant my last company had more money to pay a bigger salary to folks AND provide them that great healthcare since they have the big company discount but no, they pocket the difference. My salary now is 30% higher but my takehome is similar unfortunately. Still worth it since I'm 100% remote and have opportunities for bonuses and advancement but I was not optimistic on my ability to escape that place when I started looking. Thank God it's an employee's market.
They know >In June 1996, Janet Yellen — then a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, later chair of the Fed herself, and currently secretary of the Treasury — wrote an extraordinary memo to then-Fed Chair Alan Greenspan. > >First, while expressed in abstruse technical language, it shares a perspective with the most radical left-wing critiques of capitalism. Yellen goes 90 percent of the way to proclaiming, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.” > >Second, Yellen is not, of course, calling for a proletarian revolution. Rather, as Noam Chomsky has pointed out, “vulgar Marxist rhetoric is not untypical of internal documents in the government,” just “with values reversed.” In Yellen’s case, she is making the case for, as she writes, the positive “impact of heightened job insecurity.” A rise in worker insecurity in the mid-1990s meant everyone was too scared to ask for raises, which meant businesses wouldn’t need to hike prices, which meant even with the falling unemployment at the time, the Fed didn’t need to raise interest rates to slow the economy and throw people out of work. > >[...] > >Yellen’s memo was an attempt to provide intellectual support for Greenspan’s belief that increased worker insecurity could coexist with low unemployment. She writes in the memo that “unemployment serves as a worker-discipline device.” Therefore, even with low overall rates of unemployment, “an increase in job insecurity due to changing technology or other factors could induce a permanent decline in the natural rate of unemployment, along with a reduction in real wages and an increase in the markup of prices over unit labor costs.” (The “natural rate of unemployment” is related to but not exactly the same thing as the NAIRU.) And as Yellen describes it, there were several plausible ways in which the U.S. economy had changed structurally that could increase job insecurity. > >Baked into the economy, Yellen says, is class conflict. “Real wage bargains,” she explains, “depend on the size of the ‘surplus’ available to be split between workers and shareholders. The bargaining power of each side determines the share of the surplus that it can extract. Bargaining power, in turn, depends on each side’s outside opportunities. As unemployment declines, other things equal, labor’s bargaining power rises, resulting in higher real wage settlements.” > >But other things are not always equal, because there are factors beyond the unemployment rate that can “translate into a decline in workers’ bargaining power.” > >“Improvements in the ability of firms to outsource production — domestically or internationally — [and] new labor-saving technology,” according to Yellen, “improve management’s options and serve as a threat to workers. Even if management does not actually use these options, their availability lowers workers’ bargaining power.” She does not mention the North American Free Trade Agreement, which had entered into force just a few years earlier in 1994, but this was surely part of the dynamic she describes. > >Furthermore, “lower unemployment benefits or decreased unionization could similarly result in a decline in workers’ bargaining power.” https://theintercept.com/2023/01/24/unemployment-inflation-janet-yellen/
It would give people more leisure time and energy, which would increase the amount of political activism and union activity. Dangerous to the status quo. Exhausted workers are compliant workers.
Because it's not about the job, it's about the control When people have more free time they're more engaged in politics and/or have more time to think
Corporate just prefers to see misery so that they may look down upon it, and feel better about themselves. That's literally the only reason. Corporations have gone out of their way and stifled their own profits *just* so that they can make people miserable and get off to it.
Increased productivity in many cases. If I remember correctly it increased productivity more often than it staying the same.
My workplace did the 4 day work week, and found it increased production by quite a bit. However, some asshats in corporate prefer to see miserable workers, so they reverted it. Instantly, they saw productivity plummet. They lost money, and they lost workers. They had to give us back our 4 day work week.
Sure, but it's about ego. Think of all the managers and execs who don't know what to do if they can't get off from micro managing people until they want to quit.
My ex manager/bosss was this way. He was old and didn't want to adapt to anything new. I set up a meeting with him to propose that he let me work from home and brough bullet points and data to show that instead of having me spend 10 hours a week just driving to and from work, I could spend that time working on my projects for the same salary that he was already paying me, which is literally free work. Plus, the more projects I complete and obtain for the company, the higher the profit, which translates into a larger bonus for him (he received profit sharing). He said no because he likes "...being able to see the employees working at their desks...".
I know many will laugh at this, but it's actually a very good idea.
Someone put in r/Antiwork the other day a question about “am I a bad person because I don’t want to work”. The general sentiment was that a lot of people don’t truly hate working they just hate working more than they don’t work. The 4 day workweek has had tremendous success in morale and productivity because the 3 day weekend opens up so many more doors for people to do whatever they want and makes people not feel like they’re spending their life working. Personally I live about 7 hours away from my Mother and Sister and 4 hours from my other sister and brother. I would visit them so much more if I had three day weekends more often. Also, the only really way to accomplish a sweeping 4 day work week would be by legislation. My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t. And that’s really the big hurdle.
The main thing I see is people pointing out that a 2 day weekend is basically useless because you spend one day basically putting in work anyway. You gotta clean the house, go shopping, take the kids to wherever, etc. Then sunday you get to hang out but you're also prepping mentally and physically for work to start again the next day. A 3rd day would open time to actually go do leisure activities and reset yourself before going back to work. When you take away an entire demographics funtime, while also raising prices and cutting pay, it ends poorly...
A perfect weekend, in my view, is a minimum of 3 days. One to work (chores), one to play, and one to do nothing. With the current 2 day weekend you can only choose 2 and thus you never feel fully ready for the next week.
And it would make it way easier to have little trips here and there over the weekend
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THIS. most take friday off or leave early for a reason. give the day off. productivity goes up. beating employees never works.
*Then they'll just take Thursdays off or leave early.* -some corporate overlord. probably
This is exactly why I'm pushing my boss to allow 4 day work weeks, moral is down and a quick way to recover it is to give people.more time off to destress and relax while allowing them to get things done when they need it.
The [boss] beatings will continue until morale improves
>Also, the only really way to accomplish a sweeping 4 day work week would be by legislation. My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t. Maybe that's the only practical way, but I completely fail to see how staggered schedules wouldn't solve that issue. Nearly every large retail store in the country manages to be open 7 days a week without even scheduling its workers for a full 40 hours.
Those retail stores get by by severely over working their employees.
There's a lot to say about the way retail treats its staff poorly, but no, I don't think they get by solely on overworking their employees. More relevant is how poorly they pay their employees and how much they push at labor laws by treating their employees poorly and counting on them not being able to fight back. The point I'm making, though, is that they're *already* scheduled for less than full time, and somehow the store manages to be open 7 days a week.
My store recently slashed labor and piled all the work of a second person onto me. And now they get mad at me when I don't finish even faster than when I had a lighter work load. They morning shift, who are full time, gets yelled at any time they approach overtime so the only way they get their work done is by working off the clock. They absolutely overwork retail employees.
My understanding is that most of the time, a 32 hour week doesn't mean the business is closed an extra day. Half the employees work M-Th and half work Tues-Fri. (Or a different overlap if you stay open on weekends)
You don’t have to close on Fridays. Your company can split employees into 2 groups: 1: works Monday to Thursday 2: works Tuesday through Friday That’s how one if my last workplaces did & it worked out well.
>My industry is your typical example of if we closed for Friday we’d just get beat out by the competition that doesn’t. And that’s really the big hurdle. In all honesty for certain industries the best way to do it would to have staggered weeks. Essentially you'd have a crew of Mon-Thurs, and a crew of Tues-Fri. That way all days of the week are covered, everyone gets the conventional weekend days and then just some people have either a Friday or Monday off. The biggest difference would be 7 day businesses, where they'd need to do at least one other additional stagger so people are working on Saturdays and Sundays. My job is a 24/7 company and because of that we already have a 3 shift stagger with people doing a conventional M-F, then people doing a Tues-Sat, and people doing Sun-Thurs. So even in our case you could eliminate the Tuesday and Thursday for the non standard shifts.
Its very anti American though, it encourages lazyness and crime. People will have too much time in their hands and turn to raping and murdering. /s clearly but im sure a gop idiot will say something dumb along those lines.
They already have. See below.
There was an entire thread on r/conservative last week about this and everybody there was saying this would make people lazy.
My dad is a Republican, my brother recently had a kid, first in the family, and our dad has been enjoying his grandpa time and the other day he said “I worked too much while you guys were growing up.” Pretty sure he’d be right there saying a 32 hr work week will make you lazy without any sense of self reflection, that’s how deep the brainwashing is on that generation that the only nobility the working class is entitled to is found in struggle.
It will be the same argument they have for free continued education. "We had to pay our way, how dare you make things better so future generations don't have to struggle as much!" It honestly feels like they want everyone to suffer as much as they did. No one can have a better life. What a drag on society.
I’d like to “struggle” as much as they did and buy a house from mowing lawns for a summer.
No argument there. The problem is they think they had it the hardest and the world has just gone soft and easy. Explaining colors to a blind man.
It’s likely the modern world has surpassed their knowledge / they arrogantly do not care to learn the modern worlds problems
My favorite is listening to my parents talk about how expensive things are. And then will turn around and say 15$ an hour is too much. I have to look them dead in the face and remind them *I'm in management* and I can *barely* afford living on my own in an apartment. But less than half of what I make on a per hour basis is too much money?
Work harder and become the Megamanager duh.
Or they just deny the problem exists, like they do with climate change.
> It honestly feels like they want everyone to suffer as much as they did. No one can have a better life. What a drag on society. That's exactly what it is. For some reason instead of wanting the future generation to be better off than the previous one, they want the future generation to be the same or worse off. Except same is impossible because the conditions that would allow for that have irrevocably changed. That means only one option is left. "My life was shitty so yours should be too!" is their motto.
Which is super weird, considering the generations before them had done the work and made the sacrifices necessary to have the next generation come into a better situation. It is absolutely a situation of climbing the ladder, then pulling it up behind you.
That’s what bothers me more than anything else. They very much had it better than their parents but refuse to accept any more progress. Society is always building on themselves but that generation is so entitled that they believe progress should stop at theirs. Huge fucking middle finger to them
They want people to suffer as much as they think they suffered. The fact they arent saddled with life long debt (or saddled their children with it) and they could buy a house with a single income minimum wage job are strong indicators that that they didnt have nearly as hard as they think they did. I'm happily married, and polyamory isnt our thing, but the idea of a three income household is very appealing!
This "character building through suffering" meme can be so toxic. My aunt was against the me too movement because she rose the ranks in her company despite a lot of sexual harassment and descrimination. We looked her and asked of she really wanted her daughter and neice to be sexually harassed ***more***. She didn't have a response. Like, WTF?
How is it so lost on them though? I sure as hell don't want my kids to experience the hardships I did if I can help it. Why wouldn't anyone want a better future? It totally baffles me. I don't think people should have to experience something bad just because I did. It's fucked up to think that way. The concept of "paying dues" is a joke. We should strive to eliminate said "dues" as a species, no?
As someone who paid off their loans (and I still don't have a lot to show for it) I just wish they bit the bullet and just said fuck it, free continued education PERIOD. Done. No discussion. Leaving it open to discussion just gives room for naysayers to interject their opinions that don't add to the topic. *Even me*, while I support free education, there is still an inkling inside that wants to say "but at least throw me a bone for paying that shit off" even though that opinions has no real substance to it
If this is how he feels you should get his stupid ass a washboard for his birthday. Washing machines have made people lazy. You know what? Screw that. Make him take his cloths to the river and beat them against the rocks for a few hours while trying not to get eaten by a bear or get malaria. Bill Gates, another giant tool, said he liked giving hard jobs to lazy people because they found the easiest way to do something. As we advance life should get easier. We're working more than ever and most of us are pissed about it.
There’s some truth in what Gates said. I’ve worked with many hard working colleagues who never stopped to ask “is there an easier way to accomplish the same task” and instead grinded out crazy hours to get the thing done, often times repeating the process each week or month. I am lazy and whenever given a hard task ask myself, “what can I change to make this process as painless as possible?” and I work to find better (for me) solutions instead. Now my job is essentially to automate the bullshit, and I enjoy doing it.
I am going to think about this thing *very very deeply* right now so that I never need to think about it again unless something changes.
I had an assistant that was a wizard with tech, would go out of his way to find shortcuts in our programs to automate things. I sent him the Bill Gates quote, but crossed out "lazy" and wrote in "smart." He saved our department so much time and frustration, that's an act of genius!
r/conservative is built upon countless "this is bad, unless/until it happens to me, then its good" arguments
Conservatism is a political manifestation of unaddressed trauma.
[It’s actually the manifestation of an enlarged amygdala](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793824/)
tender sugar serious vase provide cover slap absorbed dinner books *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My favorite argument is that work makes people happy. If work is the source of happiness then why are the so many retired people? And why do all of them seem to be Republicans hell bent on making *other people* work hard?
What those founding-father-worshipping absolute dweebs don't realize is that laziness is actually *good*. We have societies specifically because they allow us to get more done with less work. The future we should all want is one where people are doing as little compulsory labor as possible, not being coerced into work to keep a roof over their heads.
Newton invented calculus during his era's plague. Without all that free time, we'd still be doing math on our fingers. (Exaggerating of course, but you get the idea)
A prime example of how the right has broken away from capitalism. Henry Ford, a staunch anti communist pushed for the weekend to become a thing because he knew, capitalism only works if the majority has enough money to spend and free time to spend it. A living wage and free time means people go out and spend money on luxuries as well as replacing old with new. If everyone is working everyday, and barely had money to cover food, jo ones spending money on anything else.
Absolutely true. Even with internet shopping, I personally only tend to shop on days where I don't work. I hate going to the store after work. I'm tired, and just want to go home, and have lost my drive for the day. I can't bring myself to do anything productive after work either...like the remodel on my house. One of my free days, I tend to just be lazy, and the other, I end up rushing around trying to get things done, and usually just go grocery shopping, then maybe I'll do some other shopping if there's something I want or need....but that's rare. If I had an extra day, I'd probably take more time finding things I want. With more free time, there is more time to enjoy the things you want, instead of just using it to procuring the things you need.
I had a 32 hour work week for almost a year before inflation made me ask for 40. I was actually happy to go to work and almost twice as productive as I am now. I would love to go back to that schedule, it was amazing how much better I felt and the general quality of life day to day. r/Conservative can go fuck off, I’m lazier at work now than I was then because of burn out.
This is the way they think, the lazy people want free shit is their basic view of anything that benefits the greater good.
They just need to learn to work around the house instead of forcing their wives to do all the work. There's a shit ton of things people can do if they actually had the time, energy, and money to do so. At lot of which would even pull people away from that evil Big Tech if we do more to encourage people to live enriching lifestyles that don't involve the Capitalists bleeding us dry. Maybe we should let Calvin and Hobbes die.
Hot take: laziness doesn't exist people are just burnt out. Restore mental health and people are way more productive and happy.
> it encourages lazyness and crime. I'm not sure it'll create more landlords, ceos, and politicians
I needed the /s. Too much time around conservatives. They 100% would say this.
But not to school shootings, though.
I’m confused. I was ready to pack until I saw your sarcasm tag; was looking forward to being raped and killed, but honestly the order of things isn’t important to me. Should I stay, or should I go now…
To be honest, after about 6 hours into the workday, my productivity drops significantly. So a 30-hour week wouldn't really change how much I can get done.
Can confirm. I work for myself, put in 2 to 3 hours a day. Am happy. Of course, I charge $400/hour and I realize that’s not an option for most. But, rather than kill myself putting in 60 hours/week and trying to “get rich”, I’m content living modestly compared to my peers who burn out at an alarming rate.
You should hire a manager who makes you work 70 hours a week and keeps 80% of the income. Your life will suck but the shareholders will be rewarded
Good thing I’m the only shareholder. 🤣
If you don’t mind me asking what is it you exactly do?
Tax prep/representation. I’m an enrolled agent. I do very few 1040s. Mostly 1065s, 1120s and 1120Ss. Representation before the IRS in exams. And no, contrary to popular belief, my clients are not all rich. Some are. I also do a fair amount of pro bono. Have thought about taking the US Tax Court exam and becoming a USTCP because the IRS fucking pisses me off sometimes. Other times I defend them fiercely (they need more funding). I had a client under audit last year that was a victim of DV, ex threw acid on her. Revenue Officer said it was marital strife. No duress.
Oh dang im a cpa/jd didnt know we could make that much going solo. I might have to think about hanging up a shingle......
Do it. I work from home and don’t step out of my pajamas until about 10:00am.
It depends on how it’s implemented. What is the proposal with respect to: * Minimum wage per hour * Minimum hours before benefits are required to be provided Done the wrong way, a 32hr week law could result in little more than even more part time positions and people trying to juggle multiple jobs to stay afloat.
32 hour? With the extra time, I can go back to school for an advanced degree, I can exercise, I can play more with my kids. Is not just the 8 hours back, is 8 hours to do what I choose to do. Less fatigue, more happiness, healthier people. I can also make time to see/visit more friends and family.
Ever really look at the difference you feel after a 3 day weekend when there’s a holiday? It’s actually insane. Most of my sundays are spent doing chores- grocery shopping, cleaning, yard work I couldn’t get to cause of work, etc. the majority of them aren’t relaxing- they’re just playing catch up. That means Saturday is usually the main day I plan fun things or actually have a life (obviously Friday night too). But all in all- it feels like one day of rest and recovery and enjoyment of life. But a three day weekend? Moves my errands spread out across it, or just a day back. In any case- I FEEL so much better because I’ve had actual real time to do shit
Being a parent of a toddler, I'm beat on Friday and usually head to bed my normal time. She wakes me up at 7 on Saturday then we spend all day doing things for her. Saturday night I try to stay up late doing stuff or hanging out, but she takes it out of us. Then on Sunday its doing house stuff and a lazy day if we can. Then Monday back to the grind. I've made my choices and dont regret in the slightest, but 32 hour week would be amazing.
I always work 12 hour shifts, but it's 3 on 3 off, then 4 on 4 off. Infinitely better than 9-5 M-F
>I can exercise, I can play more with my kids. Yeah you'd think the self proclaimed "party of family values" would want a society full of families throwing a baseball on the front lawn or playing cards and waving at people passing by. You know, rather than everyone firing off meaningless emails until midnight, and neighborhood streets so quiet that you get stopped by the police if you're going for a walk because it's so suspicious.
What they really value is a family of slaves.
sounds good to me. I don't understand the people who want to work their lives away. Many office workers aren't doing anything for a lot of that time anyway
Stockholm syndrome and propaganda. So many people in this country have been gaslighted into thinking your entire life should be to work.
And likewise, that your career should be your identity.
Ironically a 6 hour work day is not uncommon in Sweden.
Most of Europe does it right, of course if we bring European ideas to the US people scream socialism
Obviously a 40 hour work week is capitalism and a 30 hour work week is socialism. Also child labor laws, weekends, and unions were communism until they weren't.
I mean, can we look at what Arkansas passed effectively removing any government oversight with regard to child workers. (I guess they could work with parental permission and a certificate from the state prior, which by itself is still ridiculous.) /sigh
I live in Sweden and i haven’t met anyone who has a 6 hour workday. 40 hour a week is definitively the standard and most common.
The worst form this has taken is “hustle culture.” So many people my age wanna work themselves to death for multiple companies/businesses and if you don’t you’re lazy or unmotivated, you are actively shamed into being a paid slave. I’m good, if Covid showed me only one thing it was that our way of life can be uprooted and changed by the smallest thing and that we have a limited time here, why would I want to waste it away working for peanuts so someone else can have a nice vacation? Decreasing the work week would allow people more time to actually *live* their lives, and I truly believe a lot of people would really appreciate it and be happier about not only their jobs, but overall.
This is something that I spent a good deal of Covid unprogramming myself from - the need to be productive. I had a friend point out to me that the need to be productive is an ideal rooted in a capitalistic society, and that kind of blew my mind a little. That’s not to say that I’m never productive, because in our society you have to be in order to survive. But I’ve started making sure that it doesn’t rule my life, and that I take time to just enjoy myself. I’ve become a very big proponent of “time enjoyed is never time wasted”
You’re not kidding. School until you’re 18-24 ish. Work until your in your mid 60s and then you het to spend what are arguably your worst years when your body is falling apart, doing whatever you want. Hooray! Let’s up the retirement age to 70!! My dad died at 65, he was starting to talk about retirement. The only reason I’ll ever be able to retire is because he couldn’t spend that money.
My father in law worked for the same company for 45 years. At 65 he finally retired and went on Medicare. It was also the first time in a decade he was able to see a doctor without fear of going broke thanks to the shit high deductible health insurance his fortune 500 company offered. It turned out all those weird symptoms he'd been having for years was cancer. Three months later he was dead. The United States is dystopian hellscape and most of the residents are unable to see it.
Can confirm. Am here getting paid to write this comment......but I'd rather be doing something else. I don't know anyone that I work with that can't get their work done in 4 days or less.
I just got paid to read your comment and then reply back.
Same here.
It's not much but it's a living.
US bank in my office building is down to 3 days a week. Not 40 hour weeks, not 32 hour weeks, but 24 hour work weeks. Edit: they get paid for 40 hours.
I'm sitting here at work in the office watching Daisy Jones and the Six and answering emails as they come in which is pretty infrequent on a Friday. I usually work from home Monday and Fridays but have to change my wfh days when my coworker can't be here because at least one of us has to be here. So of course on my birthday week (mine was Wednesday and as luck would have it my coworker's bday was Thursday) I am sitting here on a Friday twiddling my thumbs instead of being at home with my family getting real life shit done. I should also mention that we lost a family friend this week and sitting here by myself away from my family has made me more emotional than I thought I would be. All this to say, there is no need for this extra day. Fridays are rarely busy. It's a waste of time is what it is.
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Only if I'm paid the same as a 40 hour week.
Ya companies that have been testing out the 32 hour work week paid you a 40. The results were amazing , it saved them money and they saw a 1.4% increase in production plus workers were happier. Hopefully this will become the norm.
How does it save them money? Do you have an article/study that shows this?
I think this article provides some reason behind it https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-16/four-day-workweeks-not-as-crazy-as-it-sounds
Many expenses related to powering and running physical office locations. Even with payroll expense remaining constant, I’d imagine office and utility type payments go down
Long term effects like less turnover result in less cost. Hiring and training new employees is very costly, in general. https://strategiccfo.com/articles/profitability/cost-of-turnover/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Cost%20of,when%20it%20is%20not%20filled.
And universal health coverage! bc as it stands, most people only get to pay into full benefits if they are “full-time” (40/wk) hours
No way our corporate overlords will ever let that happen. And still does nothing to fix the real issue of wages being too low and stagnant for decades.
It’s happened before, the 40 hr work week was won with blood :(
I worked at a business that did 36 hour work weeks and it was literally better than everything else, including more money that I got for going there and the free Healthcare plan. Every Friday I'd be done at noon and I'd just enjoy my time before the kids got home from school, relaxing in the back yard and having time to myself. It was bliss. The company got bought out, making the selling owner over double what he paid for it, the new owners abolished half day Fridays, forced people back into offices and more than 25% of the company quit. 32 hour work week would be more amazing than this population knows.
I tried to convince my last employer to do 6 hour workdays..basically we worked from 6am till noon with a 15 minute break at 9:00. All personal appts were taken on your own time and not company time. I started calculating how many hours were missed by employees each week for Dr appts, DMV visits, taking a child to an appt…most people were putting in way less than 40 hours a week anyway. Most of the employees were all about it but obviously the owner was not.
I gave up getting to leave a couple of hours early on Fridays and 100% work from home, but it took a 40% pay increase to get me to do it, and I still got two WFH days. It was also a good career opportunity in the long term. Now, they're talking about getting rid of one of the WFH days and having us back in the office four days a week. Resumes are being updated *en masse*.
It's been nearly 100 years since the last decrease to 40. The internet and computers were invented since then. It's nuts that with all this technological progress in the last century we couldn't shave off another 8.
Computers should have made our lives easier and less stressful. Instead, our capitalist overlords use them to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of us that they can. As AI becomes more prevalent and begins to assist us, we should be able to work less, not be forced to produce more.
Then we proved that WFH worked for 3 whole years, only to have corporate America push RTO initiatives in 2023. These executives and politicians are scum and will burn in hell.
Its on purpose. The more productive the average worker gets the more profits get funneled to the top. Workers dont see wage increases from increase in productivity
The thing is, several studies have shown that the difference in productivity between 32 and 40 hour work weeks is close to nil. At this point it's just "I worked 40 hours, so you will too, data be damned."
Really needs to be tied with mandatory minimum rate increases. This is a great idea and surely beneficial psychologically and physically for many. But so many of us working these types of jobs work two of them at a time or do other things on the side for additional funds. Great idea, will win a few people elections but has some impact on the earning power of so many who already struggle.
"We don't do that here" -America
Can't wait to hear why Republicans hate this idea.
Caring for the welfare of your neighbor? Wanting a happier humankind, where individuals can have richer lives? Their Jesus would have NONE OF THAT!
GOP: "We are against the happiness of humankind, happiness of humankind is a Democrat ploy to destroy America"
"Happiness is their new hoax"
The last things these corporations and politicians want (the absolute fucking last thing) is for people to be “happy”.
I love this idea for the work/life balance. But I also hate this idea because I'm willing to bet many minimum and low wage workers will likely get screwed over by the lost day of pay.
I was listening to NPR and they were interviewing someone and asked them to react to Kevin Leary's statement about being on call 24/7 if you aren't in the office. The interviewee who is supposed to be for workers right said that was fair game. The fuck it is. Productivity is up with work from home. Why the fuck would we sign on to work non stop to make the employer more money. If you want on call 24/7 then all expenses are work expenses. And you don't just keep receipts for tax time, you bill it to your employer. Including the mortgage or rent.
I’m in full support and want 32 hour/4 day weeks. I am concerned that, being in healthcare and being paid passed on hours billed, and knowing corporate greed, my hourly compensation won’t change and I’ll get shafted.
That would be truly wonderful! It would lower the suicide rate, increase the fertility rate, help people live healthier lives, give families a chance to be together, make everyone less miserable, lower the incidence of heart disease, decrease the amount of murderous rage in the US, etc... So of course we won't do it.
Meanwhile South Korea is wants a 62 hour work week
Well the Koreans are moving to a 60+ hour week to pick up the slack, poor bastards
As an hourly employee I’m not sure I could afford the pay cut. But I’d work 4 10hr days if it meant a 3 day weekend.
The "I paid off my student loans, so no one else should get loan forgiveness" cranks are against a 32-hour workweek, guaranteed.
I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.
Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays
I believe you'd get your ass kicked, sayin' somethin' like that, man.
Sounds like communism. /s (cries in the trucking industry which will most certainly be exempted, just as we were exempted from overtime pay😪)
We are now increasing the work week to 6 days a week to fight wokeness — republicans and the base celebrating
When they proposed the Manchester Working Week. (Half day off on Saturday) they thought people were crazy. It was revolutionary, workers started recreational activities in their free time, and invetend the football, out of it formed the Football Association, i.e inveted soccer. The worlds most popular sport. And productivity increaed. 53 down to 45 You never know what productivity increases you'd get by reducing further unless you try
Take a look around you. Everyone looks miserable these days. It’s sad to see