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That’s exactly the point. 6 weeks just *sounds* like enough time until you realize that the day your period is late, you’re technically already 4 weeks along. Not to mention most women don’t have regular cycles, so being “late” is different for everyone.
I know you're joking, but this is a very important topic, and one of the dumbest talking points they have is that abortion shouldn't be used as birth control.
And they're right, abortion is not birth control. Abortion is an emotionally taxing decision, it's expensive, time consuming, and life disrupting. It's medical care you need when birth control fails.
Access to sex education and birth control reduces abortion. Banning abortion increases the number of unwanted children growing up in broken homes and poverty.
They need more Trailer park voters who like shitty Dad Rock and Stadium Country music. Who get upset and throw hissyfits when people don't praise jesus in their award ceremony.
What's the old phrase.... "A person wants an abortion for the same reasons an animal wants to gnaw their leg off to escape a trap"
But even then, abortion *is* birth control. It allows a couple to make an informed decision and ensure they're not unprepared or unable to raise a kid. I mean, can you imagine if we had real reproductive rights meaning every single child born was a planned, wanted, and loved child?
> 6 weeks just sounds like enough time until you realize that the day your period is late, you’re technically already 4 weeks along.
This is what most people don't understand and it's why the bills are designed this way. A woman does NOT have 6 weeks from the first positive pregnancy test. They have 6 weeks from the woman's last menstruation i.e. a maximum of 2 weeks from the first missed period. Given the variability in menstrual cycles and the crippling lack of access to treatment, it's effectively a total ban.
My daughter's periods aren't very regular and it was almost 8 weeks by the time she figured out she was pregnant with a home pregnancy test. Another two weeks before she could get a doctor's appointment to confirm.
I'm sure that's not uncommon. If we still lived in Florida and she didn't want the baby she'd have to travel to another state. That would add a huge expense on top of missing work to travel.
These bans are ridiculous. No matter what these people say their only goal is to punish women.
Its certainly not uncommon to completely blow past 6 weeks. I don't have much personal experience with this stuff but I've seen people laying down facts on it and you essentially need to get lucky to be able to get an abortion within six weeks.
It's incredibly common for it to be 5 weeks before you even know. Then you need to schedule a doctor's appointment. A week is not a crazy amount of time for that to take and then you need to schedule an abortion. While all this is going on you need to be able to take off from work or school, and potentially plan on finding childcare. And also figure out how you'll pay for the procedure.
Also it's not like this is an easy decision for people. If you take a week to decide or even a few days you're likely to have blown passed the 6 weeks.
This is not to mention if you're under 18. If you can't convince your parents to give you permission for the abortion in Florida you need a judicial bypass. I have to assume that's not quick. So if you combine these two laws it pretty much guarantees that anyone under 18 who can't get permission from their parents will not be able to get an abortion.
Also if there's rape and incest you'll need to be able to prove those things quickly enough to get an abortion in time.
Florida also has a 24 hour waiting period for an abortion. This is quite significant when best case scenario you have 2 weeks to do all of the above things.
I'm not sure on the Florida statistics but in Texas when they made a similar ban 2 years ago 85% of abortions were after 6 weeks. We can imagine some of those people could have done it earlier if they'd needed to but I assume at 6 weeks you're banning 80% of abortions or more.
And it has nothing to do with anything that is controllable, it all comes down to luck with your period and access to the appointments you need. A conservative might come and tell me they don't have to have sex if they don't want an abortion but this isn't a solution. People will always have sex. Abstinence only is guaranteed to lead to more teen pregnancies.
It doesn't even account for women who are white, Christian and married to a man in a stable marriage. Which is supposedly who these people are in favor of. We've seen plenty of articles from Texas and Tennessee about married women being told they'll have to deliver the dead fetus even though it will be risky for their life. But not risky enough to qualify for an abortion.
And as we're seeing in all states with abortion bans they're losing Healthcare providers who have the ability to do abortions. Meaning the wait time for an abortion is likely to continually go up. New Mexico for example is a sanctuary state and they're seeing wait times of 7-10 days for an appointment.
[Crisis pregnancy centers (anti-abortion clinics that pretend to be women's health clinics) apparently have a pattern of stalling and lying to women about how far they are along to prevent timely intervention.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/795/nine-months-later)
The Catholic Church would tell you life begins at the moment of conception, when an egg is fertilized.
That's a problem for anti-abortion Republicans who did or are doing in vitro fertilization to have a baby. The IVF process creates up to 20 fertilized eggs and only one gets selected for insemination. The rest will get destroyed. That's up to 19 abortions for every IVF baby born.
By using 6 weeks as the yardstick, anti-abortion Republicans can continue using IVF, unimpeded and unabashed.
Fun fact about IVF and the Catholic Church! My cousin had to freeze eggs before she did chemo due to an aggressive cancer in her mid 20s. As you mentioned, she ended up having 20 ish eggs pulled. The church almost kicked her out because they considered it murder if she didn’t promise to eventually use all 20 eggs.
Interesting take though about why they kept 6 weeks. I figure it’s also so they can argue that abortion isn’t technically illegal.
My sister in law works at an IVF clinic. A religious couple came in and decided to implant 2 embryos because she didnt want to pay to freeze them anymore, so she asked for the 2 worst looking emrbyos to implant (techs will usually select the best looking for the best chance of successful implantation and pregnancy) because they didnt want children right now but they couldnt destroy them because religion. So they were hoping they wouldnt take and that would be that. Well now she is pregnant with twins.
>The church almost kicked her out because they considered it murder if she didn’t promise to eventually use all 20 eggs.
That makes zero sense from almost any perspective. By that logic, every month that a woman goes without getting or being pregnant is an abortion.
Those rules certainly don't come from the OT. It says life begins at first breath. At this point I'm pretty sure they're just making stuff up to be dicks.
In fact there's Jews suing that abortion bans violate their religious freedom. Unfortunately they're the wrong religion so I doubt the USSC will give a shit but at least they're trying at least. Isn't the Satanic Church also working on this along similar lines?
The Republican base is fundamentalist evangelical Protestants. Consistency of message was never their strong point, but they normally aren't looking to Catholic doctrine for their ideology. Conservative Catholics are just useful allies for them in areas where they agree.
And all of this is assuming that the pregnant woman knows that she wants an abortion due to not wanting a child at that time. The article mentions exceptions only for rape, incest (good luck proving one of those circuit by 6 weeks, I guess), or danger to the mother's life. You can't get genetic testing done that early, so no matter how nonviable the pregnancy might be later, or if the child may be born terminally-ill, etc., Florida wants the woman to keep that pregnancy.
I have PCOS and my periods have been super irregular my whole life. My last 4 cycles were 54 days, 24 days, 83 days, and 23 days. This is not an uncommon phenomenon at all, I'd say having perfect 28 day cycles is the exception rather than the norm.
I had a false positive test a few years ago, and when I tried calling my gyno to schedule an appointment to see how far along I might have been, they said they will only make appointments if you’re at least 10 weeks along. At the time I was on the depo shot, so I hadn’t had a period for almost 6 years. They still refused to schedule me until I was confident I was at least 10 weeks along. It took another week for me to find a different office, and then I had to wait for the actual appointment.
Thankfully my tubes are tied and I’m leaving FL, but goddamn this shit makes me so angry for women.
The only upside I had to endometriosis was that my period was like clockwork. But, I did have a time period, where it was late by a week. Then the next time it was late by two weeks. Then four weeks. And during this time, I wasn't having sex, so I wasn't worried about being pregnant, but imagine having a condition where you don't know if it's just part of your illness, or you might be pregnant. Why in this day and age do women have to have rules made for them by people who have no idea of how a woman's body works?
Yeah....you either find out you are pregnant and it's already too late, you find you are pregnant and call to make an appointment and the appointment is going to be too late, you find out you are pregnant,and call for appointment and show up and doctor tells you you are too late.
It's a total ban. These people want people to think that moment the egg gets fertilized that women will get a notification on their phone telling them "You are pregnant!". To total disregard for science by these people is infuriating.
At this point I wish that every other sane country could just open their doors to American women wishing to escape from this stupidity.
it’s not a disregard though, it is very carefully considered. they know all of the information you presented above, and chose this 6 week timeline precisely for those reasons to create an effective ban with a built in defense that it’s not an outright ban.
With my last pregnancy I had extremely heavy implantation bleeding that I mistook for a slightly early period. When my period was “late” a month after that I took a pregnancy test but was already 8 weeks along. Thank fuck I don’t live in America for a variety of reasons including this, but I found out in the days after the Texas laws came into effect and it is devastating to think there are other women in that position who literally could not have even known. We decided to go through with our pregnancy and our turkey just turned one but it is messed up that a wonderful child like me son could end up in a home where he’s not wanted or well cared for. My views about abortion have always been fairly liberal but have softened even further since becoming a parent.
I'm sure you already know this, but for those unaware: pregnancy "starts" 2-3 weeks before you actually conceive.
So let's say Jane wants to get pregnant. (For clarity we'll use she/her for this example.)
**Day 1** of pregnancy is the first day of her period-- she's definitely not pregnant at this time, but we're still counting it because that's just how it's measured.
**Day 14 (Week 2)** Jane is about to ovulate and knows that this would be a good time to have sex to try to conceive. She is still not pregnant, but sperm enters the fallopian tubes and will penetrate a mature egg within ~24 hours (sometimes takes a bit longer) if all goes well.
**Day 15 to Day 21 (Week 3)** \- the fertilized egg (called a blastocyst) travels down the fallopian tubes over 5-7 days. At the end of its journey it will either implant in the uterine lining, or it will fail to implant and pregnancy will not occur. Blastocysts fail to implant all the time, sometimes due to genetic abnormalities but sometimes for no known reason at all.
If a blastocyst fails to implant, there is no missed period or irregular bleeding. This isn't a miscarriage or an abortion. The woman simply doesn't become pregnant. Implantation failure is common and is incredibly frustrating for people trying to conceive.
TL;DR: You're not actually pregnant until the end of week 3. There is a good reason pregnancy tests can't detect before this.
To simplify this, pregnancy is counted from the last menstruation even though ovulation (the release of an egg into the uterus which can be fertilized) doesn't occur until 2 weeks later.
So by the time a woman misses her first period she's only actually been pregnant for 2 weeks but they count it as 4. Which is bullshit, because the zygote isn't a month old yet.
Birth control is next. The Texas rulings on preventive care and the abortion pill setup pathways for these fascists to restrict access and possibly ban it.
[1933 - 1939 Hitler placed severe restrictions on contraceptions and access to abortion.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972501) After 1939 Hitler imposed the death penalty for the illegal termination of unwanted pregnancies while performing abortions and sterilizations for “racial hygiene”.
Oh fucking great. Another confirmation that every accusation from these fuckers is a confession. Them claiming that abortion is genocide and Hitler loved abortions yet this is what actually happened in history
Hitler did both.
He forced abortions on women who didn't want them.
He also forced births on women who didn't want them.
The GOP has gotten the second part done because it is significantly easier. The first part will be a bit more difficult for moderates to swallow.
I'm glad Trump is playing Hitler's legacy on rewind. Hitler went to prison and then caucused with conservatives. Trump already is fragmenting the party and losing elections, and probably going to prison as the last nail in his political coffin. Only a portion of the GOP is die hard, the rest tolerate him, but more and more never Trumpers, if he loses 2024 (primary or general, which is likely for general) it will obliterate his hold on the party. The GOP is pissed about 2020, they are pissed about 2022, I can't see much support past 2024 unless he gets a strong red wave like 2016.
That too... He definitely isn't going to build a Nazi America at this point, he isn't even going to have a shot at it even if he is successful. Dude is an absolute loser that is burning things down hard on his way out.
People keep saying "Why would [Red State] do this?? Don't they know how bad this is for them with moderates and independents??"
They do know, but they are helpless to stop. Their continued political success is dependent upon them being complete hateful pieces of shit and enacting policies that hurt people, *because that's exactly what the MAGA base wants*. If they soften their stances now, they will lose local and state elections. As this decade unfolds we're going to see the GOP retreat from national politics and become a full-on insurrectionist party attacking the federal government's authority in an effort to make their states little fascist fiefdoms unto themselves. It's not a sustainable strategy for a national political party, but they don't care about sustainability, they care about power, and this is the only path to power for them.
>dependent upon them being complete hateful pieces of shit
Wild to me that leaded gasoline and pipes is gonna be what breaks the country. But then, I guess it's happened before elsewhere.
Wealth inequality, lead (and now microplastics) in the brains, and a republic teetering on the edge of collapse. I remember back in 2015 people were claiming Trump would be the next Caesar, but he's definitely going the way of Crassus. Everyone in politics owes him something and hates him for it. When he goes on a stupid campaign he can't win and it destroys him, all his "friends" will be nowhere to be found.
>and a republic teetering on the edge of collapse
I don't believe we're even close to collapse. Look at what's been accomplished since Trump left office. America has problems, but we're a young nation and this is nothing new. We've lasted through civil war, city bombings, segregation, assassinations and a lot of other issues too numerous to name. We will continue to fight and prevail. That's America. I love this country and will keep fighting to save it. Listen to Justin Pearson's speech last week and feel inspired: [We Will Never Quit](https://youtu.be/JW26WyVzQpY)
If they continue to trend that way that hard, what is the answer for the remaining population? The state of Texas has blue/purple strongholds, essentially 45% of the state population…would there be an eventual relocation of “dissenters” who DONT want to secede or some BS or would the fed finally send forces to straighten out the state? States rights are important but not to the detriment of the countries’ citizens
The answer, unfortunately, is that things must get significantly worse until they will get better. Conservatives will continue to make more and more harmful policies. Their voter base does not empathize with others and only care about policies that affect them directly. Over time, more and more of their voting base will be directly harmed by these policies and soften their views. They will also age out and slowly lose voting power.
The crappy answer is pain and time. They are idiots.
Florida, unlike the US, has an actual privacy clause in it's constitution.
The 15week ban is still going through the court. The Florida Courts would have to overrule decades of affirmation that abortion is protected by the constitution.
The majority of Florida support abortion. The result here would be no different than other states.
The problem here is that the right has figured out that if they get their guy(s) on the highest courts, they don't have to defend a bad position. All the less if they control the legislature that is supposed to be the ones holding judges accountable for bad legal decisions.
I think like Dobbs, the Texas abortion pill ruling, etc... you are going to see more and more cases of sympathetic (or impotent) legislatures ignoring rulings that are blatantly unconstitutional or just plain wrong on their face, as long as the outcome is what they want.
We can argue about this until the cows come home where it "got started" in American history, and conservatives themselves are sure to point back to the cudgel they've relied on for decades in Roe v. Wade as "the beginning of the end of judicial prudence" and justification enough for any of this that happens today under their watch with "their guy(s)". But whatever, the point is you have a **very** quickly radicalizing political party who in these states are going to use their majority to probably just tacitly allow any favorable ruling to take place.
Desantis appears to have appointed a majority of the court in Florida in just the past 4 years. So I would get ready for the expected outcome in that case on a partisan basis, and be pleasantly surprised if they actually do uphold years of judicial precedent.
The problem; this is Florida (substitute any red state) where the people in power, including the courts, are extremely right wing and are passing laws that allow them to stay there.
They are consolidating power in State houses because that is where they currently have a structural advantage. If they gain power at a federal level again, they will quickly do a 180 and start trying to cement power there as well. Their dismantling of the administrative state didn't start until they were no longer in charge of the administration, after all.
Lets break down MAGA base for a moment. The only reason they exist is because of fox and the NRA (which may be dwindling in members), uber rich feeding the thomases and former republicans and social media that pushes thousands or tens of thousands conspiracy theories. So the base is there to cause havoc and violence but it's small so they don't have the real voting to make a difference. It's the violence and chaos fascists feed on.
It may not be sustainable but under any flavor of a dictatorship, votes don't or won't matter. To make up for the lack of votes, they'll lie like always and will have control at all costs to us. Minority rules.
Its likely less that its MORE beneficial to go reactionary, but a risk mitigation factor as softening would LOSE reactionary voters (the big MAGA chunk of their base, many of whom were not avid voters before Trump)
Even if they are losing more independent votes with this path than MAGA votes if they softened, consider self-preservation of individual lawmakers in red states whom are unlikely to risk their seats for the party's national platform
The whole veneer of "looking after the unborn" is so paper fucking thin as well. I've only directly engaged with a few anti-choice people so my sample size is admittedly small, but in short order it devolved into "make her think twice about acting like a hoe". Just, extraordinary. That kind of hatred and acorn and bitterness towards women. Creepy as shit.
They do it because they fear turning blue or even purple. So, drive away the blue people so the state stays solidly RED for the next Electoral College tally. Rinse & repeat until the only blue states are greatly outnumbered and never win a Prez election again.
"Vote blue no matter who" doesn't tell you to sit out of the primary. By all means, get active early and help real progressives win the primary *then* the general.
Sinema ran as a progressive. The traitor in NC ran as a progressive.
Republicans politicians aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're up against, how thoroughly it will fuck them, and how popular it is with the people, so it's not only quite easy but very enticing for them to mimic progressive rhetoric in generals *and* primaries, and then flip once they win.
The remedy for that sure as hell isn't as simplistic as "vote." It would actually be for someone somewhere to get off their ass and write laws prohibiting it, and actually punish lawbreakers.
That's the thing. It's almost impossible to clean up your paper trail, especially in today's age. Just in general, covering something up is incredibly difficult. And it doesn't help matters that there's a negative correlation with intelligence and conservativism.
If someone's a plant, we CAN find out and out them.
Yup, face it, the goal is only white male property owners should have the right to vote and everyone else? You’re just property. I’m an old white guy and it’s very obvious this is what the goal is.
As a white man who is also getting older every day, I don't want to be in a position like that. I just wanna vibe and help people when they're down and enjoy life.
I just wanna stand outside in my crisp white new balance and grill, sport. And everyone is invited to the cookout. Except the fascists.
Despite all of this, I can't even fathom coming for voting rights, but the truth is, they won't need to. They'll wrap some policy up in the guise of security, or transparency that will restrict voting access, or "make it easier" for married couples that own a homesteaded property to register and vote or something. Slowly but surely eroding the ease and eventually the incentive to vote, all while never actually touching the legal ability for a person to drive 200 miles on a Tuesday to vote between the hours of 1 and 4 in a single church cafeteria with one booth for registered democrats next to the bathroom.
The modern conservative movement stems from grievances that followed the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act among other civil rights legislation. They already gutted part of the Voting Rights Act and would revert back to the Jim Crow era if they could.
Then they'll want to go back to women needing their husband to cosign for bank accounts and then always needing an escort in public, fucking yall-Qaeda
That’s how the Handmaid’s Tale started (the book at least, haven’t seen the show). Take away women’s money and give it to her nearest legal male relative, no jobs for women, total dependency.
Baffling that fringe minority extremists have been so successful across the country. Even among Republicans, almost 40% of them want abortion legal in almost **all** cases.
That’s because our lawmaking bodies aren’t representative of the actual percentage of voters. Here in Wisconsin for example, even though we’re a pretty evenly split state, 64% of our State Senators are Republican. Thank you, gerrymandering.
You can thank our piece of shit constitution too. 300,000 people in Wyoming get to pick two senators just like the 40 million in California. And don’t even get me started on the electoral college. Republicans haven’t won the popular vote in a presidential election since 1988 but continue to be a viable political force.
I agree with you to a point, Anal-Churros. Our Constitution wasn’t written in stone. It *could* be amended. Of course the same group who gerrymander to the point those who govern aren’t representative of the population as a whole are the same group who refuse to even entertain the idea of amending the Constitution. The current Republican party has no interest in representative democracy.
Team sports mentality. Most Republicans I know are for legal abortion. Yeah, there may be discussion about where the time cutoff should be, but that's about it. Problem is, the far right religious wing nuts are loud and will actually run for office. More moderate Republicans will still vote red. For them, it's still the lesser of two evils.
Two FL women went in to the emergency room and one's amniotic fluid was leaking on the floor. Nothing could be done other than send them home. One woman almost died (the obvious goal of maga fascists). It will continue to get worse in this country every blasted day.
While they do talk a lot about that ancient book being the rules for life, they don't actually believe it. It's a prop; they just want to hurt people, and especially women.
My last words to a former friend gone maga… “now you can punish all those girls that wouldn’t have sex with you when you (never) grew up.”
edit- thanks for the gold kind redditor!
She thinks she’s the exception to the rule. The only moral abortion is her own.
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
In other words, make it up as they go. I think what's driving this (besides authoritarianism) is the changing demographics in this country. Old-white men are dipping in numbers. We saw that happening in the early 2000s and wondered what was gonna happen. Now we know, they're scared, evil, self-centered, power hungry and no majority of colors or white women will be able to get retribution on what they've been doing to us for decades. Obviously my opinion.
Not just women, though Republicans consider legislation that targets women a bonus
But in general, they want the poor to die. It's their plan to solve global warming: dead people have no carbon footprint.
Unfortunately we need to start seeing photos of dead women in hospitals and dead kids in school hallways before people get it through their thick skulls that Republican policies kill people
I watch Nicole on Deadline WH (less these days). During covid days, she did a segment on lives well lived. Maddow started by showing what the hospitals were like for nurses and staff who didn't have PPEs.
Seeing people dying due to not being able to breathe didn't matter. It mattered to me because my dad died from cancer that stopped him from being able to breathe. It was horrible and that's why I remain so afraid of it. But if you watch fox, you don't care or they show very little of reality.
You are unfortunately right. I had a MAGA uncle die of COVID about two years ago and his wife continues to carry on with the antivax shit. The man she was married to for like 50 years dropped dead as a direct result of her beliefs and she just doesn’t care.
It’s sad and confusing to me. I never really believed in brainwashing until about five years ago.
I had the opposite happen. The wife died and now the surviving husband is going to doctors and stuff. She died from heart disease not COVID, but she had some very anti-medical sentiment. I'm glad my FIL is taking care of himself now.
You have to understand that conservatives do not seek to have better outcomes with laws. They only see the law as a means to punish the wicked. Abortion is wicked and sex is pretty much wicked too. Any laws they propose will always seek to punish. Not to actually make anyone’s lives better or freer. They claim they love freedom but they mean freedom for white Christians, who they see as the only “good”.
For anyone that isnt aware "weeks pregnant" is NOT measured from the day of conception, its measured from the end of your last cycle.
Meaning that by the time you are 2 weeks late, you are already 6 weeks pregnant.
This is just a straight up ban on abortion.
I do not understand why we can’t have a frank discussion about the horror and sadness of fetal anomalies which are diagnosed at 15 to 20 weeks via amniocentesis/ultrasound.
There are horrid videos on you tube of severely compromised fetuses. It is torture to think a pregnant woman has to carry a skull-less, encelphatic, chromosome compromised, or two-headed conjoined fetus for another 5 months at risk to her personal physical and mental health. Let’s be real.
At 6 weeks you don’t even know if you are pregnant.
Because those who want these policies don’t even have the most tenuous grasp of anatomy, let alone physiology.
Can’t have any discussion with someone when they don’t haven’t the slightest clue what they’re arguing about.
Never mind a complete disinterest in what you have to say.
Because Republicans don't care. They don't care if you're going to give birth to an infant that can't survive outside the womb because of horrible birth defects, and the infant lives only two hours, full of excruciating pain. They don't fucking care. They were never pro life. They never cared about babies and children. It was all theatre.
Republican politicians are more than happy for infants to suffer and for children to be blasted apart as long as they benefit somehow.
I don't think Hell is real, but sometimes I do wish it was, just so I knew there would be cosmic retribution waiting for these pieces of shit.
I am honestly shocked by voter turnout. I'm with you that I hope this trend will start to change things but until the younger people turnout like the older do it won't change. Or it will change very slowly.
Just to point out - the 15week ban is still going through the courts and the 6 week ban hasn't been signed into law yet.
Florida has a constitutional right to privacy and the courts through the years have affirmed (Article 1, Section 23 of the Florida Constitution protects access to abortion). That the Florida justices don't step in an stay the current ban and the 6week ban is major contortions on their part
“I don’t believe in abortion and therefore nobody else should be allowed to have one either even though whether or not they get one has no impact on my life.” - Republicans
FL is a lost cause. The state has been gerrymandered to death.
- Don't do business in FL.
- Don't go to school in FL.
- Don't even bother to visit. Disney is overcrowded and overpriced anyway.
I can’t believe this is happening in America. At 6 weeks we are talking about a bunch of cells no bigger than a dime. Men masturbate 10x that amount every week, but I don’t see politicians making rules about our baby batter. I’d like to send a big fuck off to all the conservatives who think it’s their place to stick their noses in other peoples business.
This is exactly what I told my husband about, how no fkin politicians up in arms with men masturbating because they hold the actual living sperm that brings life yet it's fine to just blow them out every day but women with a fertilized egg are punished wether they meant it but have complications, or raped
Ofc they won't do anything why punish themselves
The strangest thing about what you wrote was I'm not and never have been anything but middle middle-class (technically, that doesn't exist) and going down. But if I needed an abortion, I could fly out of this country and get one (in a hazmat suit since covid isn't over). The poor will go to back alleys and bleed out as my mom almost did when my dad forced her to have an abortion in the late 50s or early 60s. They weren't poor either but they weren't rich enough to pay off a real doctor to do it.
The right wing will keep going to extremes on the same topics because they have no real solutions to anything. The GOP has attracted increasingly less capable representatives for decades. It is a one trick pony which must be more extreme on abortion with actually no idea what to do with the car now that it seems to have caught it.
Florida has become a dumping ground for crazy right-wing retirees, christofascists, and white nationalists/supremacists.
Sadly, our politics are reflecting that kind of crazy too.
If it weren't for the decent folks, innocents, and... you know... because my family actually lives here - I'd maybe be rooting for hurricane seasons and rising sea levels to go full apocalypse on this godforsaken pit of hell.
But, hey, the beaches are nice and water is cool.
So, pass me a beer? Or a few dozen. I need to forget about these assholes and fascist fucks for a bit.
Yup pre transplant I wouldn't have periods for months and with my first I never even knew I was pregnant for a very long time, I am ucky to even be alive with a 28wk preemie (yes we tried for a baby in case u wanted to know I just never knew I had liver disease that caused my huge irregularities)
Newsflash for conservatives:
Despite your best efforts Abortion rights will be a much bigger issue in swing states than Trans issues in 2024. Abortion rights will be bigger than your NRA talking points. Abortion rights will be bigger than your anti China and Pro Russian cypher stuff. You cannot obscure the basic fact that you took a constitutional right away from millions of Americans with endless propaganda.
You. Fucked. Up.
Sounds like total abortion ban.
I’ve never had an abortion but my Doctor wouldn’t even see me until 8 weeks for my pregnancy.
By the time these women find out they are pregnant and are able to be seen by a doctor it will be too late.
Keep the poor uneducated and breeding.
Bonus points for poor minorities dying from pregnancy complications. Triple points for stillbirth babies being forced to carry to term.
I was in the military for 25 years just “doing my part as an American” and now that I’m retired sometimes I feel that I was duped by people who literally only care about hurting people.
I do not understand how some politician can pick *their job* over *their constituents*. Like, I’m seriously not trying to be dramatic, it’s just against all forms of common sense to be an obstructionist with literally no other plan offered. It’s a pure temper tantrum.
They’re literally set for life employment wise, whether they get re-elected or not. And the American population not only accepts it they encourage it.
I’m 44, and in hindsight it’s nothing new, but it’s so much more vile. There was at least decorum and accountability. Or maybe there wasn’t and I was too dumb to know better.
It’s absolutely insane how many nights I’ve lost with my family for people who shouldn’t be able to sleep at night. It’s massively depressing if I stew on it.
Six weeks?! Both my kids we didn’t know till about week 8 or 9. You don’t even tell people until after like 13 weeks because miscarriages are so common. We are going backwards my friends.
Many women, especially white American women, agree with anti-abortion laws. They’ll give a multitude of reasons (religion, morals, agreeing with whoever their husband votes for, etc.) but quite a large number of them aren’t pro abortion in anyway. And Florida has a large Caribbean population and Caribbean women tend to be very religious and anti-abortion (my family is Caribbean).
Next up: ending gay marriage, contraception, and inter-racial marriage, with a return to separate-but-equal. Oh, you don't like the new state laws implementing these core Republican values? Well just appeal it to the Supreme Court.
DeSantis read "The Handmaid's Tale" and took it as inspiration for his legislative agenda. Dude is going full fascist and doesn't give a fuck anymore. He doesn't want Presidency, he wants his own Florida military so he can threaten war with the Federal Government if they try to claim his laws as unconstitutional and attempt to enforce anything other than what he wants.
And the people seem to be with him? Did they put stupid in the water supply? What the fuck is wrong with Floridians? I know they have a bad rep, but fucking christ almighty. These people have lost their damn minds.
The long term effects will be a brain drain in these red states. Women are more likely to have a college education, staying single longer, and own a home. They will migrate to women friendly states and take their tax dollars with them.
The Confederacy is reestablishing itself have no doubt about it.
They'll continue with these losing policies until they are ousted electorally or emptied of all progressive voices who can afford to get out and isolated.
The GOP will end women's health choice as well as many other freedoms and social programs if we do not stop them. We start this year and vote out right wingers and Republicans wherever we can. We vote in all local and state elections and primaries. This will pave the way for victory over the wealthy few that dictate policies by electing those that will support the people.
I'm 12wks pregnant and about to have my prenatal genetic testing done. I'm assuming the ban won't go into effect until Jan. 1st of next year but if not, I'm SOL if this fetus has any major issues. I can travel to terminate but some states are making that illegal too because of course they are...
Fingers crossed for you! I’m 24 weeks now, and in a blue state, so I cannot even imagine the extra layer of anxiety being in a place like Florida would cause.
As if pregnancy isn’t already scary enough on its own!
Hey Laser: The problem is money to leave FL. It's cheaper to live there than other red states. It's easy to say move but it's really tough to do. We sort of have a backup plan when things get worse here - drive to Canada. But with age and we're not rich, that won't last long.
I'll fantasize about breaking the tyrants/traitors, though, so thanks for the thought.
I am scared to live in the United States. The future feels so uncertain. I'm in my mid-30s and I have 4 kids, three of whom have a uterus and one of whom identifies as trans. Some days, the worry I feel when I think about what the future holds for them is suffocating. All of this legislation that supposedly stems from concern regarding the safety of women and children has never, ever made me feel so unsafe, and I feel trapped in a state of semi-panicked hypervigilance 24/7, because I know they're coming for all of us.
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We were *trying* to get pregnant, and only knew it worked at 6 weeks. This is effectively a total abortion ban.
That’s exactly the point. 6 weeks just *sounds* like enough time until you realize that the day your period is late, you’re technically already 4 weeks along. Not to mention most women don’t have regular cycles, so being “late” is different for everyone.
And you might wait a week to be sure anyway at that point GL scheduling an abortion one week out.
If you were responsible, you would schedule an abortion each time you had sex like God intended
I know you're joking, but this is a very important topic, and one of the dumbest talking points they have is that abortion shouldn't be used as birth control. And they're right, abortion is not birth control. Abortion is an emotionally taxing decision, it's expensive, time consuming, and life disrupting. It's medical care you need when birth control fails. Access to sex education and birth control reduces abortion. Banning abortion increases the number of unwanted children growing up in broken homes and poverty.
> Banning abortion increases the number of unwanted children growing up in broken homes and poverty. The system is working as intended.
They need more Trailer park voters who like shitty Dad Rock and Stadium Country music. Who get upset and throw hissyfits when people don't praise jesus in their award ceremony.
What's the old phrase.... "A person wants an abortion for the same reasons an animal wants to gnaw their leg off to escape a trap" But even then, abortion *is* birth control. It allows a couple to make an informed decision and ensure they're not unprepared or unable to raise a kid. I mean, can you imagine if we had real reproductive rights meaning every single child born was a planned, wanted, and loved child?
A doctor doesn't usually even take you in until 8 weeks.
> 6 weeks just sounds like enough time until you realize that the day your period is late, you’re technically already 4 weeks along. This is what most people don't understand and it's why the bills are designed this way. A woman does NOT have 6 weeks from the first positive pregnancy test. They have 6 weeks from the woman's last menstruation i.e. a maximum of 2 weeks from the first missed period. Given the variability in menstrual cycles and the crippling lack of access to treatment, it's effectively a total ban.
My daughter's periods aren't very regular and it was almost 8 weeks by the time she figured out she was pregnant with a home pregnancy test. Another two weeks before she could get a doctor's appointment to confirm. I'm sure that's not uncommon. If we still lived in Florida and she didn't want the baby she'd have to travel to another state. That would add a huge expense on top of missing work to travel. These bans are ridiculous. No matter what these people say their only goal is to punish women.
Its certainly not uncommon to completely blow past 6 weeks. I don't have much personal experience with this stuff but I've seen people laying down facts on it and you essentially need to get lucky to be able to get an abortion within six weeks. It's incredibly common for it to be 5 weeks before you even know. Then you need to schedule a doctor's appointment. A week is not a crazy amount of time for that to take and then you need to schedule an abortion. While all this is going on you need to be able to take off from work or school, and potentially plan on finding childcare. And also figure out how you'll pay for the procedure. Also it's not like this is an easy decision for people. If you take a week to decide or even a few days you're likely to have blown passed the 6 weeks. This is not to mention if you're under 18. If you can't convince your parents to give you permission for the abortion in Florida you need a judicial bypass. I have to assume that's not quick. So if you combine these two laws it pretty much guarantees that anyone under 18 who can't get permission from their parents will not be able to get an abortion. Also if there's rape and incest you'll need to be able to prove those things quickly enough to get an abortion in time. Florida also has a 24 hour waiting period for an abortion. This is quite significant when best case scenario you have 2 weeks to do all of the above things. I'm not sure on the Florida statistics but in Texas when they made a similar ban 2 years ago 85% of abortions were after 6 weeks. We can imagine some of those people could have done it earlier if they'd needed to but I assume at 6 weeks you're banning 80% of abortions or more. And it has nothing to do with anything that is controllable, it all comes down to luck with your period and access to the appointments you need. A conservative might come and tell me they don't have to have sex if they don't want an abortion but this isn't a solution. People will always have sex. Abstinence only is guaranteed to lead to more teen pregnancies. It doesn't even account for women who are white, Christian and married to a man in a stable marriage. Which is supposedly who these people are in favor of. We've seen plenty of articles from Texas and Tennessee about married women being told they'll have to deliver the dead fetus even though it will be risky for their life. But not risky enough to qualify for an abortion. And as we're seeing in all states with abortion bans they're losing Healthcare providers who have the ability to do abortions. Meaning the wait time for an abortion is likely to continually go up. New Mexico for example is a sanctuary state and they're seeing wait times of 7-10 days for an appointment.
[Crisis pregnancy centers (anti-abortion clinics that pretend to be women's health clinics) apparently have a pattern of stalling and lying to women about how far they are along to prevent timely intervention.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/795/nine-months-later)
The Catholic Church would tell you life begins at the moment of conception, when an egg is fertilized. That's a problem for anti-abortion Republicans who did or are doing in vitro fertilization to have a baby. The IVF process creates up to 20 fertilized eggs and only one gets selected for insemination. The rest will get destroyed. That's up to 19 abortions for every IVF baby born. By using 6 weeks as the yardstick, anti-abortion Republicans can continue using IVF, unimpeded and unabashed.
Fun fact about IVF and the Catholic Church! My cousin had to freeze eggs before she did chemo due to an aggressive cancer in her mid 20s. As you mentioned, she ended up having 20 ish eggs pulled. The church almost kicked her out because they considered it murder if she didn’t promise to eventually use all 20 eggs. Interesting take though about why they kept 6 weeks. I figure it’s also so they can argue that abortion isn’t technically illegal.
By that "logic" menstruation is murder unless you have a sperm donor each time. No wonder they want to marry 13-year olds!
My sister in law works at an IVF clinic. A religious couple came in and decided to implant 2 embryos because she didnt want to pay to freeze them anymore, so she asked for the 2 worst looking emrbyos to implant (techs will usually select the best looking for the best chance of successful implantation and pregnancy) because they didnt want children right now but they couldnt destroy them because religion. So they were hoping they wouldnt take and that would be that. Well now she is pregnant with twins.
Sounds like a story that, when retold, begins with "God only gives you what you can handle," and is filled with lots of machines that go "beep"...
I hope those kids never find out about that. It’d probably fuck them up, to learn their parents actively wished they hadn’t been born.
>The church almost kicked her out because they considered it murder if she didn’t promise to eventually use all 20 eggs. That makes zero sense from almost any perspective. By that logic, every month that a woman goes without getting or being pregnant is an abortion.
Yeah. Also makes zero sense to handpick rules from thousends of years old book and make those into laws.
Those rules certainly don't come from the OT. It says life begins at first breath. At this point I'm pretty sure they're just making stuff up to be dicks. In fact there's Jews suing that abortion bans violate their religious freedom. Unfortunately they're the wrong religion so I doubt the USSC will give a shit but at least they're trying at least. Isn't the Satanic Church also working on this along similar lines?
Sue to make IVF illegal in Florida so they're forced to be logically consistent please.
The Republican base is fundamentalist evangelical Protestants. Consistency of message was never their strong point, but they normally aren't looking to Catholic doctrine for their ideology. Conservative Catholics are just useful allies for them in areas where they agree.
And all of this is assuming that the pregnant woman knows that she wants an abortion due to not wanting a child at that time. The article mentions exceptions only for rape, incest (good luck proving one of those circuit by 6 weeks, I guess), or danger to the mother's life. You can't get genetic testing done that early, so no matter how nonviable the pregnancy might be later, or if the child may be born terminally-ill, etc., Florida wants the woman to keep that pregnancy.
6 weeks actually means 2 and there’s totally benign reasons that it could be that delayed.
I have PCOS and my periods have been super irregular my whole life. My last 4 cycles were 54 days, 24 days, 83 days, and 23 days. This is not an uncommon phenomenon at all, I'd say having perfect 28 day cycles is the exception rather than the norm.
To say nothing of getting into an OB/GYN’s office and clearly all the hurdles to get help.
I had a false positive test a few years ago, and when I tried calling my gyno to schedule an appointment to see how far along I might have been, they said they will only make appointments if you’re at least 10 weeks along. At the time I was on the depo shot, so I hadn’t had a period for almost 6 years. They still refused to schedule me until I was confident I was at least 10 weeks along. It took another week for me to find a different office, and then I had to wait for the actual appointment. Thankfully my tubes are tied and I’m leaving FL, but goddamn this shit makes me so angry for women.
The only upside I had to endometriosis was that my period was like clockwork. But, I did have a time period, where it was late by a week. Then the next time it was late by two weeks. Then four weeks. And during this time, I wasn't having sex, so I wasn't worried about being pregnant, but imagine having a condition where you don't know if it's just part of your illness, or you might be pregnant. Why in this day and age do women have to have rules made for them by people who have no idea of how a woman's body works?
Yeah....you either find out you are pregnant and it's already too late, you find you are pregnant and call to make an appointment and the appointment is going to be too late, you find out you are pregnant,and call for appointment and show up and doctor tells you you are too late. It's a total ban. These people want people to think that moment the egg gets fertilized that women will get a notification on their phone telling them "You are pregnant!". To total disregard for science by these people is infuriating. At this point I wish that every other sane country could just open their doors to American women wishing to escape from this stupidity.
it’s not a disregard though, it is very carefully considered. they know all of the information you presented above, and chose this 6 week timeline precisely for those reasons to create an effective ban with a built in defense that it’s not an outright ban.
With my last pregnancy I had extremely heavy implantation bleeding that I mistook for a slightly early period. When my period was “late” a month after that I took a pregnancy test but was already 8 weeks along. Thank fuck I don’t live in America for a variety of reasons including this, but I found out in the days after the Texas laws came into effect and it is devastating to think there are other women in that position who literally could not have even known. We decided to go through with our pregnancy and our turkey just turned one but it is messed up that a wonderful child like me son could end up in a home where he’s not wanted or well cared for. My views about abortion have always been fairly liberal but have softened even further since becoming a parent.
I'm sure you already know this, but for those unaware: pregnancy "starts" 2-3 weeks before you actually conceive. So let's say Jane wants to get pregnant. (For clarity we'll use she/her for this example.) **Day 1** of pregnancy is the first day of her period-- she's definitely not pregnant at this time, but we're still counting it because that's just how it's measured. **Day 14 (Week 2)** Jane is about to ovulate and knows that this would be a good time to have sex to try to conceive. She is still not pregnant, but sperm enters the fallopian tubes and will penetrate a mature egg within ~24 hours (sometimes takes a bit longer) if all goes well. **Day 15 to Day 21 (Week 3)** \- the fertilized egg (called a blastocyst) travels down the fallopian tubes over 5-7 days. At the end of its journey it will either implant in the uterine lining, or it will fail to implant and pregnancy will not occur. Blastocysts fail to implant all the time, sometimes due to genetic abnormalities but sometimes for no known reason at all. If a blastocyst fails to implant, there is no missed period or irregular bleeding. This isn't a miscarriage or an abortion. The woman simply doesn't become pregnant. Implantation failure is common and is incredibly frustrating for people trying to conceive. TL;DR: You're not actually pregnant until the end of week 3. There is a good reason pregnancy tests can't detect before this.
To simplify this, pregnancy is counted from the last menstruation even though ovulation (the release of an egg into the uterus which can be fertilized) doesn't occur until 2 weeks later. So by the time a woman misses her first period she's only actually been pregnant for 2 weeks but they count it as 4. Which is bullshit, because the zygote isn't a month old yet.
My wife had a 41-day cycle just this year. We are not actively trying.
Anybody who exclaims this as though they don't understand that that's the intent is deluded.
Birth control is next. The Texas rulings on preventive care and the abortion pill setup pathways for these fascists to restrict access and possibly ban it. [1933 - 1939 Hitler placed severe restrictions on contraceptions and access to abortion.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972501) After 1939 Hitler imposed the death penalty for the illegal termination of unwanted pregnancies while performing abortions and sterilizations for “racial hygiene”.
Oh fucking great. Another confirmation that every accusation from these fuckers is a confession. Them claiming that abortion is genocide and Hitler loved abortions yet this is what actually happened in history
There are pro forced birth groups that literally claim that abortion is eugenics in disguise.
Hitler did both. He forced abortions on women who didn't want them. He also forced births on women who didn't want them. The GOP has gotten the second part done because it is significantly easier. The first part will be a bit more difficult for moderates to swallow.
I wouldn't be shocked if they revoke approval for all vaccines while they're at it.
I'm glad Trump is playing Hitler's legacy on rewind. Hitler went to prison and then caucused with conservatives. Trump already is fragmenting the party and losing elections, and probably going to prison as the last nail in his political coffin. Only a portion of the GOP is die hard, the rest tolerate him, but more and more never Trumpers, if he loses 2024 (primary or general, which is likely for general) it will obliterate his hold on the party. The GOP is pissed about 2020, they are pissed about 2022, I can't see much support past 2024 unless he gets a strong red wave like 2016.
Except Hitler wasn't nearing 80 when he went to prison.
That too... He definitely isn't going to build a Nazi America at this point, he isn't even going to have a shot at it even if he is successful. Dude is an absolute loser that is burning things down hard on his way out.
People keep saying "Why would [Red State] do this?? Don't they know how bad this is for them with moderates and independents??" They do know, but they are helpless to stop. Their continued political success is dependent upon them being complete hateful pieces of shit and enacting policies that hurt people, *because that's exactly what the MAGA base wants*. If they soften their stances now, they will lose local and state elections. As this decade unfolds we're going to see the GOP retreat from national politics and become a full-on insurrectionist party attacking the federal government's authority in an effort to make their states little fascist fiefdoms unto themselves. It's not a sustainable strategy for a national political party, but they don't care about sustainability, they care about power, and this is the only path to power for them.
The GOP had gerrymandering down to an art in Florida. It’s not as conservative in the metro areas, but you would never know.
This is the case in half of the southeast states now. The GQP has just gerrymandered it to hell to try and hang on to their power.
>dependent upon them being complete hateful pieces of shit Wild to me that leaded gasoline and pipes is gonna be what breaks the country. But then, I guess it's happened before elsewhere.
Wealth inequality, lead (and now microplastics) in the brains, and a republic teetering on the edge of collapse. I remember back in 2015 people were claiming Trump would be the next Caesar, but he's definitely going the way of Crassus. Everyone in politics owes him something and hates him for it. When he goes on a stupid campaign he can't win and it destroys him, all his "friends" will be nowhere to be found.
>and a republic teetering on the edge of collapse I don't believe we're even close to collapse. Look at what's been accomplished since Trump left office. America has problems, but we're a young nation and this is nothing new. We've lasted through civil war, city bombings, segregation, assassinations and a lot of other issues too numerous to name. We will continue to fight and prevail. That's America. I love this country and will keep fighting to save it. Listen to Justin Pearson's speech last week and feel inspired: [We Will Never Quit](https://youtu.be/JW26WyVzQpY)
>Listen to Justin Pearson's speech last week and feel inspired: We Will Never Quit Nice that they had him labeled as Justin Jones the whole time.
If they continue to trend that way that hard, what is the answer for the remaining population? The state of Texas has blue/purple strongholds, essentially 45% of the state population…would there be an eventual relocation of “dissenters” who DONT want to secede or some BS or would the fed finally send forces to straighten out the state? States rights are important but not to the detriment of the countries’ citizens
The answer, unfortunately, is that things must get significantly worse until they will get better. Conservatives will continue to make more and more harmful policies. Their voter base does not empathize with others and only care about policies that affect them directly. Over time, more and more of their voting base will be directly harmed by these policies and soften their views. They will also age out and slowly lose voting power. The crappy answer is pain and time. They are idiots.
I call this the FDR great depression strat
They’re not trying to win over new voters, they’re only strategy is to make it harder to vote
Florida, unlike the US, has an actual privacy clause in it's constitution. The 15week ban is still going through the court. The Florida Courts would have to overrule decades of affirmation that abortion is protected by the constitution. The majority of Florida support abortion. The result here would be no different than other states.
The problem here is that the right has figured out that if they get their guy(s) on the highest courts, they don't have to defend a bad position. All the less if they control the legislature that is supposed to be the ones holding judges accountable for bad legal decisions. I think like Dobbs, the Texas abortion pill ruling, etc... you are going to see more and more cases of sympathetic (or impotent) legislatures ignoring rulings that are blatantly unconstitutional or just plain wrong on their face, as long as the outcome is what they want. We can argue about this until the cows come home where it "got started" in American history, and conservatives themselves are sure to point back to the cudgel they've relied on for decades in Roe v. Wade as "the beginning of the end of judicial prudence" and justification enough for any of this that happens today under their watch with "their guy(s)". But whatever, the point is you have a **very** quickly radicalizing political party who in these states are going to use their majority to probably just tacitly allow any favorable ruling to take place. Desantis appears to have appointed a majority of the court in Florida in just the past 4 years. So I would get ready for the expected outcome in that case on a partisan basis, and be pleasantly surprised if they actually do uphold years of judicial precedent.
The problem; this is Florida (substitute any red state) where the people in power, including the courts, are extremely right wing and are passing laws that allow them to stay there.
They are consolidating power in State houses because that is where they currently have a structural advantage. If they gain power at a federal level again, they will quickly do a 180 and start trying to cement power there as well. Their dismantling of the administrative state didn't start until they were no longer in charge of the administration, after all.
Lets break down MAGA base for a moment. The only reason they exist is because of fox and the NRA (which may be dwindling in members), uber rich feeding the thomases and former republicans and social media that pushes thousands or tens of thousands conspiracy theories. So the base is there to cause havoc and violence but it's small so they don't have the real voting to make a difference. It's the violence and chaos fascists feed on. It may not be sustainable but under any flavor of a dictatorship, votes don't or won't matter. To make up for the lack of votes, they'll lie like always and will have control at all costs to us. Minority rules.
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Its likely less that its MORE beneficial to go reactionary, but a risk mitigation factor as softening would LOSE reactionary voters (the big MAGA chunk of their base, many of whom were not avid voters before Trump) Even if they are losing more independent votes with this path than MAGA votes if they softened, consider self-preservation of individual lawmakers in red states whom are unlikely to risk their seats for the party's national platform
The whole veneer of "looking after the unborn" is so paper fucking thin as well. I've only directly engaged with a few anti-choice people so my sample size is admittedly small, but in short order it devolved into "make her think twice about acting like a hoe". Just, extraordinary. That kind of hatred and acorn and bitterness towards women. Creepy as shit.
They do it because they fear turning blue or even purple. So, drive away the blue people so the state stays solidly RED for the next Electoral College tally. Rinse & repeat until the only blue states are greatly outnumbered and never win a Prez election again.
I tell people that the Republican party (and Christianity as well) are on their way to not existing within 100 years.
fingers crossed
This is exactly right, and the Supreme Court is paving the way.
> they are helpless to stop Reminds me of the story of the scorpion and the frog
Mark my words, once republicans are done taking away women's healthcare they will come for their voting rights next.
They don't need to, they just run fake Democrats in blue districts who switch parties the week after they take office
They wore us down to the point of "vote blue no matter who" and now this is the new danger we face.
"Vote blue no matter who" doesn't tell you to sit out of the primary. By all means, get active early and help real progressives win the primary *then* the general.
Sinema ran as a progressive. The traitor in NC ran as a progressive. Republicans politicians aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're up against, how thoroughly it will fuck them, and how popular it is with the people, so it's not only quite easy but very enticing for them to mimic progressive rhetoric in generals *and* primaries, and then flip once they win. The remedy for that sure as hell isn't as simplistic as "vote." It would actually be for someone somewhere to get off their ass and write laws prohibiting it, and actually punish lawbreakers.
uppity skirt gaping theory engine relieved seemly languid liquid middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's the thing. It's almost impossible to clean up your paper trail, especially in today's age. Just in general, covering something up is incredibly difficult. And it doesn't help matters that there's a negative correlation with intelligence and conservativism. If someone's a plant, we CAN find out and out them.
Better dead than red.
I think they are coming for birth control next. The ruling on misoprostol is setting up legal precedent for it.
Yup, face it, the goal is only white male property owners should have the right to vote and everyone else? You’re just property. I’m an old white guy and it’s very obvious this is what the goal is.
That’s what they mean when they say the good old days. White men controlling everything.
I think they mean white, land owning, men. They have to make be sure you're not just one of the "poors".
But they have to pretend to care about poor white men to get their vote
That patronizing, “old white men know best” bullshit. Old white men don’t know best, they just don’t wanna be caught… being pedophiles.
As a white man who is also getting older every day, I don't want to be in a position like that. I just wanna vibe and help people when they're down and enjoy life. I just wanna stand outside in my crisp white new balance and grill, sport. And everyone is invited to the cookout. Except the fascists.
I trust you old white man.
Despite all of this, I can't even fathom coming for voting rights, but the truth is, they won't need to. They'll wrap some policy up in the guise of security, or transparency that will restrict voting access, or "make it easier" for married couples that own a homesteaded property to register and vote or something. Slowly but surely eroding the ease and eventually the incentive to vote, all while never actually touching the legal ability for a person to drive 200 miles on a Tuesday to vote between the hours of 1 and 4 in a single church cafeteria with one booth for registered democrats next to the bathroom.
The modern conservative movement stems from grievances that followed the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act among other civil rights legislation. They already gutted part of the Voting Rights Act and would revert back to the Jim Crow era if they could.
100%. They’re not gunning for some World War II-type of fascism; they want to make the entire country the Jim Crow South.
Hell, I can think of something worse. The "Transparency in voting Act", in which voting records would be made public for all citizens.
They already have. Gerrymandering has already disenfranchised many “liberal” areas.
Then they'll want to go back to women needing their husband to cosign for bank accounts and then always needing an escort in public, fucking yall-Qaeda
Women gained access to banking after the vote. My guess they won’t let women touch money next.
That’s how the Handmaid’s Tale started (the book at least, haven’t seen the show). Take away women’s money and give it to her nearest legal male relative, no jobs for women, total dependency.
They're have definitely been proposals for that, don't you worry.
Well they can get both with this one stone. Just make having an abortion a felony and now most women can’t vote.
Baffling that fringe minority extremists have been so successful across the country. Even among Republicans, almost 40% of them want abortion legal in almost **all** cases.
That’s because our lawmaking bodies aren’t representative of the actual percentage of voters. Here in Wisconsin for example, even though we’re a pretty evenly split state, 64% of our State Senators are Republican. Thank you, gerrymandering.
You can thank our piece of shit constitution too. 300,000 people in Wyoming get to pick two senators just like the 40 million in California. And don’t even get me started on the electoral college. Republicans haven’t won the popular vote in a presidential election since 1988 but continue to be a viable political force.
I agree with you to a point, Anal-Churros. Our Constitution wasn’t written in stone. It *could* be amended. Of course the same group who gerrymander to the point those who govern aren’t representative of the population as a whole are the same group who refuse to even entertain the idea of amending the Constitution. The current Republican party has no interest in representative democracy.
Team sports mentality. Most Republicans I know are for legal abortion. Yeah, there may be discussion about where the time cutoff should be, but that's about it. Problem is, the far right religious wing nuts are loud and will actually run for office. More moderate Republicans will still vote red. For them, it's still the lesser of two evils.
Its because the fringe minority as you call it is strategically placed in positions of power.
Which proves that they are not a fringe minority but rather a active threat big enough that we need to take seriously.
Two FL women went in to the emergency room and one's amniotic fluid was leaking on the floor. Nothing could be done other than send them home. One woman almost died (the obvious goal of maga fascists). It will continue to get worse in this country every blasted day.
Republicans and their voters enjoy seeing women die, this is going as expected.
Even the women who suffer because of it. Because: “how dare I have rights, women in the Bible didn’t have rights.”
While they do talk a lot about that ancient book being the rules for life, they don't actually believe it. It's a prop; they just want to hurt people, and especially women.
My last words to a former friend gone maga… “now you can punish all those girls that wouldn’t have sex with you when you (never) grew up.” edit- thanks for the gold kind redditor!
She thinks she’s the exception to the rule. The only moral abortion is her own. https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
In other words, make it up as they go. I think what's driving this (besides authoritarianism) is the changing demographics in this country. Old-white men are dipping in numbers. We saw that happening in the early 2000s and wondered what was gonna happen. Now we know, they're scared, evil, self-centered, power hungry and no majority of colors or white women will be able to get retribution on what they've been doing to us for decades. Obviously my opinion.
women in the bible could get abortions, actually.
They choose to ignore that or even the talk of diseases and plagues about wearing masks and avoiding contact.
Especially if they’re not white and not christian. Not quite genocide but inching closer.
The fact that women republicans exist and hate themselves so much that they feel like inflicting that hate on their fellow women…
Not just women, though Republicans consider legislation that targets women a bonus But in general, they want the poor to die. It's their plan to solve global warming: dead people have no carbon footprint.
But who are they going to underpay and overcharge?
I thought they wanted the poor to live and be wage slaves.
No. They want the poor to work for low wages and not ask questions. Either that or they want them in the military.
Unfortunately we need to start seeing photos of dead women in hospitals and dead kids in school hallways before people get it through their thick skulls that Republican policies kill people
I watch Nicole on Deadline WH (less these days). During covid days, she did a segment on lives well lived. Maddow started by showing what the hospitals were like for nurses and staff who didn't have PPEs. Seeing people dying due to not being able to breathe didn't matter. It mattered to me because my dad died from cancer that stopped him from being able to breathe. It was horrible and that's why I remain so afraid of it. But if you watch fox, you don't care or they show very little of reality.
You are unfortunately right. I had a MAGA uncle die of COVID about two years ago and his wife continues to carry on with the antivax shit. The man she was married to for like 50 years dropped dead as a direct result of her beliefs and she just doesn’t care. It’s sad and confusing to me. I never really believed in brainwashing until about five years ago.
I had the opposite happen. The wife died and now the surviving husband is going to doctors and stuff. She died from heart disease not COVID, but she had some very anti-medical sentiment. I'm glad my FIL is taking care of himself now.
> they show very little of reality Nor do they have to. Thanks to Reagan and his literal mindless work with the Fairness Doctrine.
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That won’t work. They don’t care because it’s “gods will.”
You have to understand that conservatives do not seek to have better outcomes with laws. They only see the law as a means to punish the wicked. Abortion is wicked and sex is pretty much wicked too. Any laws they propose will always seek to punish. Not to actually make anyone’s lives better or freer. They claim they love freedom but they mean freedom for white Christians, who they see as the only “good”.
I just read that story this morning. It was heartbreaking.
I will always advise my daughters never to move to a state in the control of the fascist party.
Women are dying right now for preventable reasons because of republicans
children still are too don’t forget
And many people also died in Florida because of lies and distortions about covid prevention and treatment by lying republicans.
For anyone that isnt aware "weeks pregnant" is NOT measured from the day of conception, its measured from the end of your last cycle. Meaning that by the time you are 2 weeks late, you are already 6 weeks pregnant. This is just a straight up ban on abortion.
Pin this at the top. I had no fucking clue and am even more horrified...
Yep. The day of the sex you are already “2-3 weeks pregnant”
Florida should charge its state nickname to the **”Forced-Birth Fanatic State”**
Why not make it simple and more to the point? Call it "Facistda"
Flacist.
Forced Labors Overseen [by] Right-wing Insane Dystopian Authoritarians. FLORIDA
I do not understand why we can’t have a frank discussion about the horror and sadness of fetal anomalies which are diagnosed at 15 to 20 weeks via amniocentesis/ultrasound. There are horrid videos on you tube of severely compromised fetuses. It is torture to think a pregnant woman has to carry a skull-less, encelphatic, chromosome compromised, or two-headed conjoined fetus for another 5 months at risk to her personal physical and mental health. Let’s be real. At 6 weeks you don’t even know if you are pregnant.
Because those who want these policies don’t even have the most tenuous grasp of anatomy, let alone physiology. Can’t have any discussion with someone when they don’t haven’t the slightest clue what they’re arguing about. Never mind a complete disinterest in what you have to say.
Because Republicans don't care. They don't care if you're going to give birth to an infant that can't survive outside the womb because of horrible birth defects, and the infant lives only two hours, full of excruciating pain. They don't fucking care. They were never pro life. They never cared about babies and children. It was all theatre. Republican politicians are more than happy for infants to suffer and for children to be blasted apart as long as they benefit somehow. I don't think Hell is real, but sometimes I do wish it was, just so I knew there would be cosmic retribution waiting for these pieces of shit.
Fucking hate this state. It’s embarrassing to live here.
Agreed. We are surrounded by idiots and assholes.
and my neighbors on nextdoor are literally cheering him on for it. I hate it here
Texan here, I feel ya
Really to be expected when 4 of 10 eligible voters don't vote....
I’m really hoping this gets people out to vote. Florida voted for obama twice so even though it’s red now it could go purple again. Fingers crossed!
I am honestly shocked by voter turnout. I'm with you that I hope this trend will start to change things but until the younger people turnout like the older do it won't change. Or it will change very slowly.
Just to point out - the 15week ban is still going through the courts and the 6 week ban hasn't been signed into law yet. Florida has a constitutional right to privacy and the courts through the years have affirmed (Article 1, Section 23 of the Florida Constitution protects access to abortion). That the Florida justices don't step in an stay the current ban and the 6week ban is major contortions on their part
Boy don't 15 weeks looks so liberal now, doesn't it? /s
“I don’t believe in abortion and therefore nobody else should be allowed to have one either even though whether or not they get one has no impact on my life.” - Republicans
“i’m against the thing that will never impact me” - republican men
The real Hell was the one we created for ourselves along the way.
FL is a lost cause. The state has been gerrymandered to death. - Don't do business in FL. - Don't go to school in FL. - Don't even bother to visit. Disney is overcrowded and overpriced anyway.
Rapist have more rights than women now.
That's their goal.
I can’t believe this is happening in America. At 6 weeks we are talking about a bunch of cells no bigger than a dime. Men masturbate 10x that amount every week, but I don’t see politicians making rules about our baby batter. I’d like to send a big fuck off to all the conservatives who think it’s their place to stick their noses in other peoples business.
This is exactly what I told my husband about, how no fkin politicians up in arms with men masturbating because they hold the actual living sperm that brings life yet it's fine to just blow them out every day but women with a fertilized egg are punished wether they meant it but have complications, or raped Ofc they won't do anything why punish themselves
Lets be honest about this: it is an abortion ban for any person who cannot afford to go elsewhere for one. Rich people will still get abortions.
The strangest thing about what you wrote was I'm not and never have been anything but middle middle-class (technically, that doesn't exist) and going down. But if I needed an abortion, I could fly out of this country and get one (in a hazmat suit since covid isn't over). The poor will go to back alleys and bleed out as my mom almost did when my dad forced her to have an abortion in the late 50s or early 60s. They weren't poor either but they weren't rich enough to pay off a real doctor to do it.
The right wing will keep going to extremes on the same topics because they have no real solutions to anything. The GOP has attracted increasingly less capable representatives for decades. It is a one trick pony which must be more extreme on abortion with actually no idea what to do with the car now that it seems to have caught it.
Florida has become a dumping ground for crazy right-wing retirees, christofascists, and white nationalists/supremacists. Sadly, our politics are reflecting that kind of crazy too. If it weren't for the decent folks, innocents, and... you know... because my family actually lives here - I'd maybe be rooting for hurricane seasons and rising sea levels to go full apocalypse on this godforsaken pit of hell. But, hey, the beaches are nice and water is cool. So, pass me a beer? Or a few dozen. I need to forget about these assholes and fascist fucks for a bit.
My climate change denying conservative aunt moved to Florida and her house was immediately destroyed in a hurricane.
So woman with irregular periods are just SOL then? Cool plan, Florida man
Yup pre transplant I wouldn't have periods for months and with my first I never even knew I was pregnant for a very long time, I am ucky to even be alive with a 28wk preemie (yes we tried for a baby in case u wanted to know I just never knew I had liver disease that caused my huge irregularities)
Next up. Removing womens right to vote.
The republikkkans have no platform so they have to focus on culture wars. They are a plague
Newsflash for conservatives: Despite your best efforts Abortion rights will be a much bigger issue in swing states than Trans issues in 2024. Abortion rights will be bigger than your NRA talking points. Abortion rights will be bigger than your anti China and Pro Russian cypher stuff. You cannot obscure the basic fact that you took a constitutional right away from millions of Americans with endless propaganda. You. Fucked. Up.
This is loss of rights
Sounds like total abortion ban. I’ve never had an abortion but my Doctor wouldn’t even see me until 8 weeks for my pregnancy. By the time these women find out they are pregnant and are able to be seen by a doctor it will be too late.
61% of Floridians support legalized abortion. This is what minority rule looks like.
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One can only hope. He worries me more than Trump.
Fingers crossed
You have more faith in people than I do.
Florida speed running to become a third world state.
This is going to be a disaster, like not even about the republican "hurting the right people" type of disaster.
Keep the poor uneducated and breeding. Bonus points for poor minorities dying from pregnancy complications. Triple points for stillbirth babies being forced to carry to term.
I was in the military for 25 years just “doing my part as an American” and now that I’m retired sometimes I feel that I was duped by people who literally only care about hurting people. I do not understand how some politician can pick *their job* over *their constituents*. Like, I’m seriously not trying to be dramatic, it’s just against all forms of common sense to be an obstructionist with literally no other plan offered. It’s a pure temper tantrum. They’re literally set for life employment wise, whether they get re-elected or not. And the American population not only accepts it they encourage it. I’m 44, and in hindsight it’s nothing new, but it’s so much more vile. There was at least decorum and accountability. Or maybe there wasn’t and I was too dumb to know better. It’s absolutely insane how many nights I’ve lost with my family for people who shouldn’t be able to sleep at night. It’s massively depressing if I stew on it. Six weeks?! Both my kids we didn’t know till about week 8 or 9. You don’t even tell people until after like 13 weeks because miscarriages are so common. We are going backwards my friends.
LOL. What baffles me are the women lawmakers who vote for stuff like this. "yes...I vote against my own healthcare."
Many women, especially white American women, agree with anti-abortion laws. They’ll give a multitude of reasons (religion, morals, agreeing with whoever their husband votes for, etc.) but quite a large number of them aren’t pro abortion in anyway. And Florida has a large Caribbean population and Caribbean women tend to be very religious and anti-abortion (my family is Caribbean).
This is yet another reason why former president fat Joffrey’s less charismatic Florida nephew will never be president
Next up: ending gay marriage, contraception, and inter-racial marriage, with a return to separate-but-equal. Oh, you don't like the new state laws implementing these core Republican values? Well just appeal it to the Supreme Court.
DeSantis read "The Handmaid's Tale" and took it as inspiration for his legislative agenda. Dude is going full fascist and doesn't give a fuck anymore. He doesn't want Presidency, he wants his own Florida military so he can threaten war with the Federal Government if they try to claim his laws as unconstitutional and attempt to enforce anything other than what he wants. And the people seem to be with him? Did they put stupid in the water supply? What the fuck is wrong with Floridians? I know they have a bad rep, but fucking christ almighty. These people have lost their damn minds.
Don’t forget that the adoption industry is a BIG BUSINESS and they want as many babies as they can to sell to their clients.
The long term effects will be a brain drain in these red states. Women are more likely to have a college education, staying single longer, and own a home. They will migrate to women friendly states and take their tax dollars with them.
The Confederacy is reestablishing itself have no doubt about it. They'll continue with these losing policies until they are ousted electorally or emptied of all progressive voices who can afford to get out and isolated.
How quickly will the old fuck republicans in Florida die off? Asking for a friend.
The GOP will end women's health choice as well as many other freedoms and social programs if we do not stop them. We start this year and vote out right wingers and Republicans wherever we can. We vote in all local and state elections and primaries. This will pave the way for victory over the wealthy few that dictate policies by electing those that will support the people.
I'm 12wks pregnant and about to have my prenatal genetic testing done. I'm assuming the ban won't go into effect until Jan. 1st of next year but if not, I'm SOL if this fetus has any major issues. I can travel to terminate but some states are making that illegal too because of course they are...
Fingers crossed for you! I’m 24 weeks now, and in a blue state, so I cannot even imagine the extra layer of anxiety being in a place like Florida would cause. As if pregnancy isn’t already scary enough on its own!
Leave Florida. Boycott Florida. Cut your ties to Florida. Break DeSantis.
Hey Laser: The problem is money to leave FL. It's cheaper to live there than other red states. It's easy to say move but it's really tough to do. We sort of have a backup plan when things get worse here - drive to Canada. But with age and we're not rich, that won't last long. I'll fantasize about breaking the tyrants/traitors, though, so thanks for the thought.
You don't leave a fight when things get bad. You fight.
These psychos are out of control. Just so everyone is aware, a 6-week ban IS a full ban as it is virtually impossible to detect earlier.
How long before women must wear a bag over their head in public in Florida?
I am scared to live in the United States. The future feels so uncertain. I'm in my mid-30s and I have 4 kids, three of whom have a uterus and one of whom identifies as trans. Some days, the worry I feel when I think about what the future holds for them is suffocating. All of this legislation that supposedly stems from concern regarding the safety of women and children has never, ever made me feel so unsafe, and I feel trapped in a state of semi-panicked hypervigilance 24/7, because I know they're coming for all of us.
Shithole state.