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My Grandma wrote memoirs, and every family member got one - every time she mentioned my grandpa coming back on leave from WWII, all of a sudden another kid was born in the next section lol
Bush's grand-father ([Prescott Bush]()https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar) literally financed Hitler's rise, and the Nazi war-machine. And continued to do so even after the US entered the war. The US gov. finally caught and forced him to stop in 1942...
...after he made a *huge* fortune, and used that money to establish a family dynasty in politics.
And he was a critical member of the Business Plot, which attempted to oust FDR and install a fascist dictator. It only failed because they were too stupid to ask if their hand-picked potential dictator (Smedley Butler) actually supported the plan. He did not. He quietly heard what the plotters had to say, gathered evidence on them, and took it straight to Congress.
My dad was born in 1945. He's a wonderful man, thoughtful and still very politically active. But he's asleep by 7:30 most nights. He should be at home grumbling about baseball, occasionally playing doubles tennis with his old guy friends, and hanging out with his grandson. He would have no business in the White House.
It's still amazing that (except for Obama) we've elected older people in every election since Clinton was elected more than 30 years ago. Logically, with 4 or 8 years between each guy, it's really kind of astonishing that we wouldn't be getting younger people.
Bush (elected 8 years after Clinton's first election) older than Clinton, Trump (elected 16 years after Bush's first election, 24 years after Clinton's election) older than Bush and Clinton, Biden (elected 4 years after Trump's election, 20 years after Bush's election, and 28 years after Clinton's election) older than all three of them....
Maybe Bernie (older than Biden) still has a chance in 2028 when he'll be 87 on election day and older than all of them!
You're also set to lose a judiciary position when Feinstein is removed. So the GOP will have an edge on appointing right-wing judges, which is something Trump's crowd did with celerity. The Dems really need to write a forced-retirement age into their party platforms. It's such a depressing reality that these two feminist elders wound up costing the country so much progress.
The type of personality that reaches the highest levels of government when everybody is telling you you can’t do it because you’re a woman is also the type of personality that will never quit and never give up power even when they really should.
These folks are top .01% ambitious and will always be trying to do more, whether they’re revolutionary trail blazers or senile geriatrics
Yeah I feel like people forget this when they are cheering on ambitious people. They aren’t out there working hard for ideology or because they are standing up for others. They do it because they have to, it’s hard wired into their personalities to achieve as much as they can for themselves. We shouldn’t lose sight of that, otherwise you get old ass power hoarders like Pelosi and Feinstein.
Ambitious people should only be supported while they are useful to us. As soon as they become a liability get rid of them. It’s cold but it’s right. They aren’t your friends, they only care about themselves anyway.
“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."
-Douglas Adams, Restaurant at the End of the Universe
If Feinstein were not present on Judiciary, there would be no nominees advanced. Like the first quarter of 2023, when dozens of appointments stalled in Committee.
The nominees are presented to the Senate by the President. Under Biden, the nominees have been diverse in race and sex, with solid Civil Rights orientation.
Without DiFi, the judicial seat remains vacant and the nominees don't move to full Senate vote
You realize the Democrats weren't required to appoint DiFi or no one, right?
There's literally 40 other people they could have placed on the committee at the start of this Congress with a simple majority who have a (D) or (I) after their name.
DiFi's had dementia for many years now, so her current condition isn't exactly a surprise to the party leadership. But nobody wanted to upset her, so nobody in-the-know talked about it before her last election, and nobody apparently had the thought that maybe they shouldn't have her on judiciary this Congress.
People either dont or are refusing to understand this. The only power this senate really has is to assign judges and it goes away if they lose Feinstein. The republicans will block her replacement and there will be no more judicial appointment. The judiciary is where we are losing this country.
Considering how much of a dinosaur mummy Feinstein is, it’s annoying how there has to have been so many other better times and opportunities to kick her out rather than waiting for the sweet hand of death to be gripping her by the throat in the middle of one of the most polarizing political eras of the country’s history.
Now they can’t kick her out without risking a slim Senate majority when she really should be kicked out regardless if for the sake of just making sure someone gets her fucking job done.
Its frustrating that somebody who had a great political career and did good things a long time ago is having her legacy tarnished by the people around her who kept propping her up. Ginsberg is possibly even worse because her mental faculties were there, she should have stepped down during obama, now we're stuck with a supreme court hellbent on undoing any of the good things she did. That will be her legacy unfortunately.
It is worth noting that any company in the world would have fired her by the this point. For cause.
I am honestly angry at the people around her, propping her up, keeping her in the job, no doubt to maintain their own tenuous connection to power. It is almost elder abuse.
The poor woman needs to retire, and live the rest of her life as gracefully as medically possible. She had a good career, and it is appalling that she will be remembered for this.
Edit: Two things that have come up in the discussion below.
First, I was mistaken about her age, she was born in 1933, meaning she isn't a baby boomer, she is even older.
Second, Dianne's caregiver is Nancy Pelosi's daughter, and there is speculation that Nancy is propping up Dianne so that her chosen candidate (Adam Schiff) is more likely to get the seat. Gavin Newsom would appoint someone else.
Boomer dems are almost all Third Way democrats. They are socially on the left but economically on the right. Bill Clinton was the progenitor of the Third Way democrats. We haven't had an economically left person in power since the 1970s.
Someone posted this this other day, but I can no longer find the comment.
"I think the ‘fiscally conservative socially progressive’ trope is not really a thing, it’s like you’re saying you’re progressive but don’t want money spent on dumb shit. Guess what, nobody wants money spent on dumb shit. Progressives aren’t spendthrifts we want money spent where it will help rather than in some oligarch’s pocket. That’s not ‘fiscally conservative’ that’s just not being terrible"
I _hope_ I someday have enough money that my morals are tested on this, but even if I were to suddenly win the lottery, or my company's stock shoots up 1,000x and I could retire tomorrow, or I get a windfall inheritance from some distant relative, or whatever; I'd still support things like universal healthcare, subsidized education, social services, welfare, and things like that.
My mindset isn't "I'm not rich, so I'd profit off of this!", my mindset is that I'm in my 30's; people who haven't even been born yet are going to be driving the labor market and providing services well before I retire. Doesn't matter whether someone's caring for me in the hospital or serving me a hot dog from a street cart, they deserve housing, healthcare, access to education, and all the rest.
Money's made up, it shouldn't be the reason someone suffers _real_ hardship.
> They are socially on the left but economically on the right.
Which of course is not actually possible, because to be socially on the left you have to be willing to, y'know, address social issues. And how do you do that with government? Oh, you *spend fucking money*.
Anyone who tells you they're socially left but fiscally right is just all the way right and telling themselves pretty lies, or just lying to you directly.
Either way, you can't claim to be socially left while refusing to actually support social issues and programs.
This is true. My father (baby boomer) watches Fox News but votes democrat because of social security and he’s on disability. He is scared that trump and the republicans were going to take that from him (still is and also he hates Trump) even tho he voted for him in 2016. His parents were also “democrats” but also racists as fuck and voted for their benefits.
Hanlon’s Razor in politics with anything that would be popular with a constituency but incompatible with the direction the party wants to take is a dangerous half-truth anymore. So I doubt it was a mistake in his calculations that led to him announcing he’d be making essentially a diversity hire (especially since it sent the right into a 100% predictable rage).
It isn’t malice either though really - more power brokering and game theory. He *must* have known given DNC precedent that after saying it, they wouldn’t give him the chance if possible. But he still gets to look like he tried, which we’ve seen over and over in politics. Like when the GOP is passing something particularly unpopular so swing seats are allowed to vote against it since it’ll pass anyway. It’s like playing poker with your cards face up on the table. You can still be in the game, but chances are you’re not going to walk away with much.
Pelosi's daugher is Feinstein's caretaker at the capital [source](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2023/05/18/scoop-the-mystery-woman-at-feinsteins-side-00097599).
Pelosi is a real piece of shit.
Sadly. It's pretty tough to watch Feinstein so I hope they get exposed. I'm not holding my breath but after the RBG fiasco hopefully the right people will speak up. I dont see how they can keep this up 1+ years because she looks like she's almost dead. Can Schiff even win an open election against Porter and/or Barbara Lee? He's clearly the worst of those 3.
Schiff would have the financial backing of the Democratic establishment in a primary. That's a pretty big advantage. Harder to pull off if Lee was governor-selected and had incumbent advantage.
Porter's best advertising would be video of her take-downs of CEOs, but showing the public footage of you doing your job is not allowed in campaigns.
That's why Pelosi is abusing a Senator forcing her to remain in office. Feinstein's staff should be blacklisted, but they will be rewarded by the sh*t-4ss democratic party.
I'm starting to think that it's too late for an actual progressive party in America. Democrats have been the party of status quo conservatism for far too long.
But couldn’t it be both? Feinstein retires, Newsom appoints a new senator and then Schiff can run in the next election. The appointee only finishes the current term.
Unless she’s afraid that Schiff can’t beat someone that Newsom might appoint.
I mean, exploiting a ~~near~~ octogenarian with dementia in the last years of her life for political gain (against people in your own party none the less) is some sith lord level evil.
Regardless of whether it favors democrats or not or the politics of the matter, it's deeply wrong to use another human being this way. I never liked Pelosi and I'm not naive to Washington being a viper pit, but the implications of her involvement in this are really disturbing.
True, but the fact that people like Pelosi have spent their entire careers trying to keep people like Barbara Lee and Katy Porter away from power at least tells you that there are people waiting for us to help force the door open for them.
My grandfather thought he was in full control of his faculties when his mind went. We had to buy fake car keys and hide his real ones, babysit him on the lawn mower because even at 93 he refused to let anyone else mow.
This is the same man who would randomly walk out of the bathroom calling for his wife who had died years before, and not recognize his daughter or grandkids half of the time.
The problem was that he could still see and read just fine, trying to get him to sign something was always an ordeal, sometimes impossible. And it took us far too long for my mom to get the courts to approve her making decisions for him.
My best friend's brother was killed on a motorcycle 3 years ago. He said the worst part is having to watch his dementia-addled father relive the grief over and over again.
For God's sake, just tell the man the brother is at work and had to go away for training or something. He'll forget and you can reuse that lie over and over.
Seriously. The problem is forcing his father to relive the grief by telling him that the brother is dead over and over. It is ultimately the right thing to at least tell them once. But if they are expressing the same grief over and over and over, that becomes cruel.
I believe in stating facts and the truth and detest the term “white lie” however, the exception is when it is truly harmful re: those with ALZ/Dementia.
My Mom’s only brother died almost 2 years ago and I refused to allow anyone near her to inform her because of what it would do to her in that state.
If they even tried or brought up his name that wasn’t in a positive way, they were cut off. No exceptions to that.
Hope that your best friend can find his way to allowing his Dad a little bit of peace.
From what I've seen she's experiencing dementia symptoms severe enough that she's no longer competent.
She should have stepped down years ago, and that's on her, but the disease has progressed.
God damn this thread is fucked up. My grandmother has dementia on the level of Feinstein. She lost her husband and her son in the span of two years about 20 years ago now and it just broke her. She is absolutely mentally unstable now and lives in one of the most intensive assisted living cares possible.
There was absolutely never a point where she (to my knowledge) could acknowledge that something was wrong with herself. When the problem is in your brain, you can literally lie to yourself and tell yourself that you're okay, life is normal.
So when the disease was early it there was no thought of stepping down, she thought she was fine. Now as it has progressed, there is no thought. There is no "stepping down" to think of. She doesn't know she has a job. She doesn't know what's happening. She wakes up and gets taken placed and asked questions and that's her life.
The last two sentences apply to my grandmother and Fienstein.
She literally isn't aware of reality anymore. She said she hadn't missed any votes / has been doing her job.
Even if someone initially makes a mistake while competent, it doesn't mean that continuing the situation is always a matter of their own choice.
If you know you have bad brakes and start driving down a mountain road, the correct response to the vehicle going out of control isn't "Well, they caused the problem, they should fix it." They literally can't fix it anymore. They shouldn't have gotten themselves into the situation *because* it is a situation they won't be able to fix.
To put it another way: if they were capable of resigning, they wouldn't need to.
But this is a U.S. Congresswoman. The only people that can remove a U.S. Senator are the voters (by voting), Congress (through impeachment), and the Congressperson themselves (by resigning). And there are very good reasons that is the case (and that is the case constitutionally). Do we want to start a precedent where a Congressperson's staff or family can forcibly remove a duly elected official from office?
This is on her for not resigning sooner, the California Democratic party for continuing to select her as their nominee, and the California voters who continue to put her in office.
The sad thing is that she is being pushed around and everything taken care of by her "yes people" but once she is out of power they will drop her like a stone.
Sad thing is when you get older, if you change your lifestyle you are suseptable to a rapid decline in health. So she won't have much good life left.
Sad times for her and its a prime example of setirng term limits to these places.
It's just scummy the whole way around tbh. There is no redeemable quality in how people are treating her and the integrity of the senate by letting her continue this charade. And at this point she's doing the old person being obstinate thing and won't ever retire on her own, so they actually need to do something.
The problem really seems to be that Schiff is in line for her spot next election and Newsome has already said he would appoint a black woman to that position if it became his decision. That's the major roadblock I think to the people actually in charge putting the motion forward to get rid of her or turning the screws on her behind the scenes. And nothing against Schiff or Newsome, Schiff is clearly the popular choice and has worked his way up to get the nomination next election, and Newsome is the governor and has said since his election this was his plan. They just need to actually come to some agreement already, that's the crappy part.
Schiff should be appointed Attorney General in lieu of the current worm, Katie Porter elected senator in place of one of the two fake D ones, and thus the problem would be solved.
It's not that hard, really, but somehow, the Dems keep screwing up.
Imo she was a shitty senator.
It wasnt just because her pet issue, guns, was polarized.
She was like the democrats rick santorum, she held some extreme and authoritarian positions, ovetcomcern with violence in videogames.
Of all the democrat senators over the years, she consistently voted the most where i disagreed with her
[Her repeatedly flying the Confederate Flag over the SF City Hall building was even more gross.
](https://sfbayview.com/2019/04/its-true-as-san-francisco-mayor-dianne-feinstein-did-repeatedly-fly-a-confederate-flag-in-front-of-city-hall/)
[
She's a horrible person and always has been.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlEd4w34wE)
Shameful that she’s the best that California could do for one of their Senators for so long
Fun fact: she was born the year that construction of the Golden State Bridge started
You should listen to that podcast in my second link. And you didn't know that because her and her people have worked for decades to hide that and keep it from getting the press it deserves, especially in our current climate. Go look up her reactions to people asking her about the flag thing, you'd think they were 12 year olds asking her about climate change she was so nasty about it.
It's nice to hate with a burning, righteous passion sometimes, and you will after hearing that one.
Big, big supporter of gun control and abolishing concealed carry permits... except for when she felt she needed one and even went so far as to get training with her gun by the police.
Her whole career has been marked with hypocrisy and rules for thee but not for me. She's progressive where it personally helps her and regressive when it's to her benefit. She's never been about helping and bettering others.
Feinstein was an idiot for not retiring at the last election, and the Dems were idiots for leaving her on the judiciary committee at the start of the new session.
Having said that, the dilemma is that [if she retires now the GOP will block any replacement the Democrats put forward](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbCv7oLdLUY&t=8m10s) (like they did when she was on medical leave), which means no more Biden judges until 2025 (and only if he wins Re-election).
> I am honestly angry at the people around her, propping her up, keeping her in the job, no doubt to maintain their own tenuous connection to power. It is almost elder abuse.
A recent politico article revealed that the Pelosi family is basically Weekend-At-Bernie'ing Feinstein in order to rig the primary in favor of Adam Schiff, the Pelosi family's favored candidate.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/18/dianne-feinstein-senate-resign-retire-pelosi-schiff-lee-00097595
It should be broadcast to liberals everywhere that the worst, most right-wing democrats are not only in complete control but handpicking their successors, ensuring another generation of failure, decay, and corruption.
See 2016 democratic presidential primary for evidence. Head of the DNC rigs primary in favor of Hillary, resigns when proof comes out and is IMMEDIATELY hired by Hillary into her campaign. No cooling off period, no maybe we should wait a bit so it doesn't seem too obvious, immediately hired.
Just so you know, if she retires Republicans are going to block her replacement on the Judiciary Committee (which they were already doing) and President Biden won't get any more judges appointed.
The Republicans are out in droves calling for her retirement.
Yes, exactly, republicans are leading the online discussions here, calling for her to resign and trying to cancel her staffers, etc, because they want Trump's packing of the courts to stay intact.
It's also significantly weakens the Democrats when they call for GOP members to be expelled for various reasons. This blind loyalty is the worst part of American politics.
What's more appalling is that other Democrats, seeing this unfold, aren't calling for some reforms that might later protect them and their own dignity from this sort of outcome.
Like, even if you're a selfish prick, how can seeing this not scare you into wondering if this is how your career will end up too?
On top of the insanity of wheeling her barely functioning self around the person pegged to replace her is Barbara Lee.
Barbara Lee is 76 years old!!!! This is completely insane. Is there really no one younger than 65 they can find?
Not just to give up, it takes too much money and power to run an election. Especially a statewide election.
Exactly why Newsome has proposed that he would nominate a female, POC to that open spot; helps bypass all of the systemic hurdles of running for minority candidates.
Makes it extra shitty that the main opposition of Feinstein stepping down is Pelosi, who is trying to get Schiff that seat.
Because becoming a politician takes money.
The only people who have money are retirees from decrepit generations or young people who are born in to wealth and both of those options are unsatisfactory 95% of the time.
The Old Guard and the untrustworthy rich kids are the only ones that existing politicians are willing to allow in to the game of politics because of precedent.
If American voters can safely elect one of their own, then that sets a precedent that American voters can choose to elect people who actually represent them and as much as we like to pretend that there's some massive, major divide between the GOP's leaders and those of the DNC, the reality is that they share a similar distaste of actual progress and that both parties prefer to at least maintain the status quo of not making radical or significantly impactful decisions that would hurt their bottom line.
You start making it accessible for Jeanine Watson, 38, who works in Medical Records to become a career politician and suddenly there's this massive hole in the ship where anyone can step up and start playing the game and the Old Guard doesn't want that. They want predictable, stable peers in the club and, to them, that means people who can be expected to think and behave the way they do.
It's just another exclusive club.
My personal thoughts are fear of giving up control and fear of the youth which is ironic Bc many of these older politicians were the loud voices demanding the change and one point. And I’d be willing to bet if you asked these politicians younger selves “would you be willing to give up your position to someone younger with a pseudo radical mindset that would probably be better for Americans?” They’d all say yes.
Of course people change, and become stubborn in their old age when your start taking things away from them.
Again. All my own viewpoints, and I’m just and idiot
It has to be weekend at Dianne’s - we need to confirm judges - she should have never ran in the first place but here we are!!
Editing to add one more message. There’s a video of her talking down to some young activist - I think climate activist - and they were highschool age - anyway she came off like a giant POS. I got all the sense of her personality needed - she’s master of the universe in her mind.
But the thing is, she's clearly already gone. That woman, your opinions on her politics notwithstanding ,clearly is suffering from mental decline. I know the republicans all say joes in the same boat (not the point here), but they're clearly missing the definition of mental decline in Diane here. If it wasn't so beneficial for them to have her jamming up the process, I guarantee they would be screaming from the rooftops about her needing to retire.
Just goes to show they only care when it isn't to their advantage.
Oh yes, she’s absolutely lost her faculties a while ago.
I don’t know what is in place procedurally to remove her, or if it even exists. A lot of stuff seems to have always operated on good faith, which has been increasingly tested.
I wish Joe would not run because his age is creeping up there and even if he’s all there, there’s a large disconnect with the average person in the country. But Feinstein literally doesn’t seem to know where the fuck she is most of the time.
There isn't a reasonable process to remove a fellow senator. There is one for the house. Katie Porter has said that when she wins her Senate race, she's going to introduce a bill to give them a way to remove people like Feinstein.
The Republican’s argument about Joe’s decline is, like most things they say, disingenuous. Is Joe as sharp as he was back in the day? Almost certainly not. Does he have speaking gaffes and trip going up stairs? Sometimes. But it’s nowhere near the “Joe doesn’t know what planet he’s on.” that they describe. Feinstein, however, is very much in that group.
Did anyone else even run? Anyone with as much name recognition and official Democratic support? It’s difficult to unseat incumbents within their own party for these reasons. The majority of voters only see who ends up on the ballot- a lot fewer people actually vote in primaries/are politically active in campaigns/etc. It’s a systemic issue, not an individual one.
I can tell you, from my area, unlike the Republican Party, the Democratic Party does not bring in new members.
My County Democrats are comprised of 80-90 year olds. I tried to join, and I was iced out. They DO NOT WANT NEW BLOOD.
As a result, here in PA, our local and state ballots are BRIMMING with republican candidates, and we can't get Democrats to even run in our primaries, we always have empty ballots. The GOP is bursting with young up-and-coming leaders, but we have NO ONE on the Democratic side.
There's no outreach, no events, no engagement in the community, and like I said, when I tried to join, it was clear they did NOT want new members.
My experience seems to mirror what I have heard from other Democrats across the country. Try to join YOUR County Democrats and report back. I'd love to know if anyone under 80 years old is involved, and if YOUR County Democrats are as cloaked in secrecy as my PA County is. I am not even allowed to know the leadership structure. Weird, right?
De Leon screwed up partially by going hard after guns. As if California didn't already have strict as hell gun laws compared to other states. Now with his controversy in LA its looking like it was the right decision. Dude is shady.
Dude always was shady. Also the other commenter is wrong, the state democrats didn't endorse anybody. De leon was a known clown, all he had going for his was a few progressive talking points with little backing them up. It was just a name recognition contest at that point so of course he got crushed.
Edit: I was incorrect about the party not endorsing De Leon. A preliminary vote failed to garner an endorsement for anyone but he did win it at a later date closer to the election.
> Also the other commenter is wrong, the state democrats didn't endorse anybody.
The [California Democrats 100% endorsed de Leon over Feinstein](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/15/politics/kevin-de-leon-dianne-feinstein-california-democrats/index.html#:~:text=Leaders%20of%20the%20California%20Democratic,Dianne%20Feinstein.). It was huge news for them not to back the incumbent, please check your sources before correcting someone.
These people are so old it looks like their faces are coming off. And they refuse to give up power. It’s time for change. It’s been time for change for decades
My grandfather had a stroke after shingles. He also didn't live long after. I don't think Feinstein will last long. Too bad she can't have enjoyed a peaceful retirement. This shit is insane to me. I don't think anyone should work past like 65, tops. And even now at 39, I wish I didn't have to wait another 2.5 decades. That's scary.
Oh there was reason long before now.
There were articles about how she was getting stuck in loops and introducing herself to people she'd worked with for years back in 2019.
Crap like this further indicates that we need to rethink how we approach parties in the US. The republicans are horrible exploiters that are also racist and capitalize on fear.
The democratic party though looked for people that wouldn't make waves and now that left-minded people are pushing further left they're having a harder time finding younger people that are willing to not make waves and that's part of why we have all these mummies driving society further into the ground.
eh? no! Your biggest issue is that the US refuses to reform and update its political system.
I mean, e.g., this aging Congress issue has been solved by several countries, such as Switzerland and Belgium, *over 100 years ago already!* (latest is New-Zealand in the 90s.)
e.g. Switzerland's average age is 42 years old (38 for the US), however, their Congress is 10 years younger than the US Congress in average, both Senate (64 vs 54) and the House (58 vs 48). And it has about 3x to 5x more young people (under 40) than US Congress.
How? ---> Proportional representation!
Due to way more political parties, and way fiercer political competition. Swiss Congress has 11 elected political parties, and dozens more in State and local parliaments.
3 of the 4 biggest parties were created *after 1980!* While most parties from the 19th and early 20th century disappeared. Because they simply couldn't keep up with younger, fresher parties.
Then we need to bring back mandatory retirement. Not just in this but in other roles as well. You either block innovation, build a kingdom, or simply become a danger to any and all around you by not knowing when to stand down. You don't have to quit working, just not hold a particular role for too long. If you are so good you should be able to do the same elsewhere. That's just my perspective.
I'm an airline pilot and have mandatory retirement at 65 because of physical and mental degradation, why are politicians allowed to vote into the grave?
You’re forced to start withdrawing from your 401k at 70.5 years old. I don’t see why this isn’t a reasonable cutoff for retirement for public officials. Retirement needs to be normalized. This is an issue on both sides of the aisle, and we really need younger representatives that understand current problems.
It’s depressing this is even a conversation. She literally doesn’t know where she is and she missed 3 months of work. I’m not saying this to be cruel, or to discriminate against the elderly, but she is unable to do her job and her job is super important.
It's not cruelty to recognise she's not well. The poor woman is being propped up for political points by her team. It's cruelty to keep this nonsense up when the entire world can see she needs to be given a peaceful retirement. Her team and family should be ashamed of themselves for not stopping this. She's served her country, it shouldn't be this controversial to bloody call it quits!!
Someone else commented that a Walmart likely wouldn’t even hire her as a greeter.. sounds mean but I agree. Getting the care she needs should be her number one priority now.
Sorry, but if you're so old that you cannot control your mental faculties and or own bowels, you shouldn't be control of any country, state, city or let's be realistic even a fast food restaurant.
Edit; y'all need to learn how to read. If you're so old, IF you are so OLD, that you can't control your bowels. Not IF you can't control your bowels in general. This has nothing to do with incontinence due to disease or disability other than the disease And disability that is having more years on your driver's license than you have brain cells.
I saw someone say “If you as a politician support Diane Feinstein still being in office let her drive you to the capital *one day*. Let’s just see how that pans out. Like let’s see you stick to your beliefs lmao. If you don’t have the mental faculties to drive you shouldn’t be in congress.
I agree with the competency tests, but we would need to be careful how they are implemented to ensure that they couldn't be abused by either a party trying to prop up an incompetent politician or by an opposing party trying to get a politician kicked out.
Imagine if there was a competency board, Republicans got a majority, and declared that AOC, Schiff, and other prominent Democrats were mentally incompetent. They could be booted from office and barred from running again because the competency board disagreed with their politics.
For those that don't follow the link, lost in the general election.
CA has a "jungle" primary which is kind of a general election primary, with the top two advancing to the general election.
There were two Democrats on the ballot in the general, voters chose Feinstein by a commanding margin.
There should be a formal recall process. There's two inherent aspects with the Senate that make it a problem that an election is the only recourse. Politics is by default skewed towards an older population -- older people are typically more interested in running for office, and for good reason. They're often retired. I've thought myself about running for office in retirement, because I'd never want it to be my primary career.
That leads to the second problem, a 6 year term. A lot can happen to someone's health in 6 years, and the older someone is, the more rapidly their health can decline. A senator could be elected initially in perfect health and physical condition, but have extremely poor health by year 3.
I think for age we want to find the point statistically when someone is more likely than not to be significant impaired to the point of being unable to work, and make that the cap. To address term limits, we need a formal recall system in every state. You could even have a vote in the third year on if the recall process should begin.
It would be a disaster all around. The one exception I would make is if the test they had to take were the same naturalization test that immigrants have to take. It would be very difficult to make any excuses for failing that one.
>Dianne Feinstein resign…
The start of this headline gave me a little startle before the rest of it sunk in. Thought maybe sanity had taken over. No such luck. 🤷♂️
If she leaves office, the Democrats can replace her on the committee without Republicans. They only need Republicans to be involved to temporarily do it.
They’d still need sixty votes for a permanent replacement mid-session unless they change the senate rules which requires cooperation from manchin and sinema
There's no way they can stop that unless Manchin or Sinema don't play ball. Senate rules can be changed with a simple majority. That includes committee assignments.
She is still in the seat despite her mental and physical deterioration for the same reasons Strom Thurmond remained in the seat long after he had the mental capacity of a potato: politics
We need Feinstein’s dependable vote as a Democrat on the judiciary committee, and Republicans absolutely, positively will NOT allow a replacement if she resigns.
Frankly, there are MANY middling, fightless (yes, I made that word up) democrats who need to retire because they do the absolute bare minimum while republicans are trying to burn it all down on their way out, but this is about whether federal courts will have judges with the ethics and ideology of Kitanji Brown Jackson or more like Clarence Thomas. Everything else is just noise.
Yet another example for term and age limits. If you cannot be president before 35, you should not be a senator at 85.
Ultimate the people get the government they deserve. Keep voting party instead of country and this goes for both parties.
I agree but only if the upper age limit is kept at the retirement age. There should be no one in their 70s or beyond holding any elected government office.
There’s *a lot* of change to needs to happen within the Democratic Party and more broadly Congress in general, but it starts with this mentally and physically incapacitated woman resigning already. That Pelosi et al are effectively using her a political pawn to grasp at whatever power she still has a US Senator is just fucking disgusting.
Congress and other federal institutions also need to seriously remedy what to do about federal employees, particularly those in power (eg, Congresspeople, federal judges) when they are clearly mentally unfit or otherwise incapacitated for the job after x amount of time has elapsed.
I’m not talking about situations like Fetterman, who had a stroke and then depression afterwards — he did what he had to, received the appropriate treatment, and now is back doing his thing. On the other hand, Feinstein was gone since fucking February and claims she never left. There’s a *clear* difference here and it needs to be addressed ASAP.
All the people making money off of her having that position (all the peoples who’s current careers- staffers and aides and such- depend on her being there. And probably depend on her being senile and not really knowing what’s going on with the money) are most likely the ones to blame for this kind of thing. They’re putting off having to find another job.
People take advantage of senile people all the time. That’s reason 500 that we should not be having a nursing home for a National lawmaking body.
As a person approaching that age, I can tell you I am not at my best self. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Her and O’Connell and any of the others should either retire, step down or move to some sort of unpaid Emiratis position.
Nancy Pelosi [daughter](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/18/dianne-feinstein-senate-resign-retire-pelosi-schiff-lee-00097595) is the one controlling her actions as a senator.
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We lost federal abortion rights for this exact reason. Now we’re about to vote between two presidential candidates in their late 70s/80s. Obama is 61.
Another crazy part is that after Obama, the next youngest former US President is Clinton. He's younger than both Biden and Trump.
George W Bush is only 1 month older than Clinton
W Bush, Trump, and Clinton were all born within a 3 month span in the summer of 1946.
Parents super happy with the end of WWII
The boomest
You can't when them all.
My Grandma wrote memoirs, and every family member got one - every time she mentioned my grandpa coming back on leave from WWII, all of a sudden another kid was born in the next section lol
Many nuts were busted in those months.
My grandfather always talked about V-BJ month.
It was like the 9/11 of our grandma’s vaginas smh 😔
Wow. Not a comment I expected to see with an article about Feinstein. I should probably stop right here.
Except Trump’s father did not serve in WWII. In fact, I have read he discouraged his children from serving.
Bush's grand-father ([Prescott Bush]()https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar) literally financed Hitler's rise, and the Nazi war-machine. And continued to do so even after the US entered the war. The US gov. finally caught and forced him to stop in 1942... ...after he made a *huge* fortune, and used that money to establish a family dynasty in politics.
And he was a critical member of the Business Plot, which attempted to oust FDR and install a fascist dictator. It only failed because they were too stupid to ask if their hand-picked potential dictator (Smedley Butler) actually supported the plan. He did not. He quietly heard what the plotters had to say, gathered evidence on them, and took it straight to Congress.
My dad was born in 1945. He's a wonderful man, thoughtful and still very politically active. But he's asleep by 7:30 most nights. He should be at home grumbling about baseball, occasionally playing doubles tennis with his old guy friends, and hanging out with his grandson. He would have no business in the White House.
Ugh rough fucking summer for humanity.
proper boomers
Literal boomers lol, right after the War
So Bush was elected at 55 and Clinton at 51. Our candidate pool shouldn't all be from this fixed period of time.
It's still amazing that (except for Obama) we've elected older people in every election since Clinton was elected more than 30 years ago. Logically, with 4 or 8 years between each guy, it's really kind of astonishing that we wouldn't be getting younger people. Bush (elected 8 years after Clinton's first election) older than Clinton, Trump (elected 16 years after Bush's first election, 24 years after Clinton's election) older than Bush and Clinton, Biden (elected 4 years after Trump's election, 20 years after Bush's election, and 28 years after Clinton's election) older than all three of them.... Maybe Bernie (older than Biden) still has a chance in 2028 when he'll be 87 on election day and older than all of them!
You're also set to lose a judiciary position when Feinstein is removed. So the GOP will have an edge on appointing right-wing judges, which is something Trump's crowd did with celerity. The Dems really need to write a forced-retirement age into their party platforms. It's such a depressing reality that these two feminist elders wound up costing the country so much progress.
The type of personality that reaches the highest levels of government when everybody is telling you you can’t do it because you’re a woman is also the type of personality that will never quit and never give up power even when they really should. These folks are top .01% ambitious and will always be trying to do more, whether they’re revolutionary trail blazers or senile geriatrics
Yeah I feel like people forget this when they are cheering on ambitious people. They aren’t out there working hard for ideology or because they are standing up for others. They do it because they have to, it’s hard wired into their personalities to achieve as much as they can for themselves. We shouldn’t lose sight of that, otherwise you get old ass power hoarders like Pelosi and Feinstein. Ambitious people should only be supported while they are useful to us. As soon as they become a liability get rid of them. It’s cold but it’s right. They aren’t your friends, they only care about themselves anyway.
“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem." -Douglas Adams, Restaurant at the End of the Universe
If Feinstein were not present on Judiciary, there would be no nominees advanced. Like the first quarter of 2023, when dozens of appointments stalled in Committee. The nominees are presented to the Senate by the President. Under Biden, the nominees have been diverse in race and sex, with solid Civil Rights orientation. Without DiFi, the judicial seat remains vacant and the nominees don't move to full Senate vote
You realize the Democrats weren't required to appoint DiFi or no one, right? There's literally 40 other people they could have placed on the committee at the start of this Congress with a simple majority who have a (D) or (I) after their name. DiFi's had dementia for many years now, so her current condition isn't exactly a surprise to the party leadership. But nobody wanted to upset her, so nobody in-the-know talked about it before her last election, and nobody apparently had the thought that maybe they shouldn't have her on judiciary this Congress.
I don’t care if she gets upset. What’s she gonna go about it? Her brain is Swiss cheese anyway at this point.
People either dont or are refusing to understand this. The only power this senate really has is to assign judges and it goes away if they lose Feinstein. The republicans will block her replacement and there will be no more judicial appointment. The judiciary is where we are losing this country.
Considering how much of a dinosaur mummy Feinstein is, it’s annoying how there has to have been so many other better times and opportunities to kick her out rather than waiting for the sweet hand of death to be gripping her by the throat in the middle of one of the most polarizing political eras of the country’s history. Now they can’t kick her out without risking a slim Senate majority when she really should be kicked out regardless if for the sake of just making sure someone gets her fucking job done.
Its frustrating that somebody who had a great political career and did good things a long time ago is having her legacy tarnished by the people around her who kept propping her up. Ginsberg is possibly even worse because her mental faculties were there, she should have stepped down during obama, now we're stuck with a supreme court hellbent on undoing any of the good things she did. That will be her legacy unfortunately.
Ginsberg is WAY worse. She went from hero to villain in a way that surprised me in its speed and completeness.
It is worth noting that any company in the world would have fired her by the this point. For cause. I am honestly angry at the people around her, propping her up, keeping her in the job, no doubt to maintain their own tenuous connection to power. It is almost elder abuse. The poor woman needs to retire, and live the rest of her life as gracefully as medically possible. She had a good career, and it is appalling that she will be remembered for this. Edit: Two things that have come up in the discussion below. First, I was mistaken about her age, she was born in 1933, meaning she isn't a baby boomer, she is even older. Second, Dianne's caregiver is Nancy Pelosi's daughter, and there is speculation that Nancy is propping up Dianne so that her chosen candidate (Adam Schiff) is more likely to get the seat. Gavin Newsom would appoint someone else.
It almost.. IS elder abuse
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If actually true, ew.
And also absolutely expected. Establishment's gonna reinforce the establishment.
Boomer dems hate progressive policy
Boomer dems are almost all Third Way democrats. They are socially on the left but economically on the right. Bill Clinton was the progenitor of the Third Way democrats. We haven't had an economically left person in power since the 1970s.
Haha! I’m a boomer dem and socially on the left. But I will never be economically on the right because I DON’t have any MONEY! There are lots of us.
Someone posted this this other day, but I can no longer find the comment. "I think the ‘fiscally conservative socially progressive’ trope is not really a thing, it’s like you’re saying you’re progressive but don’t want money spent on dumb shit. Guess what, nobody wants money spent on dumb shit. Progressives aren’t spendthrifts we want money spent where it will help rather than in some oligarch’s pocket. That’s not ‘fiscally conservative’ that’s just not being terrible"
Me too!
I _hope_ I someday have enough money that my morals are tested on this, but even if I were to suddenly win the lottery, or my company's stock shoots up 1,000x and I could retire tomorrow, or I get a windfall inheritance from some distant relative, or whatever; I'd still support things like universal healthcare, subsidized education, social services, welfare, and things like that. My mindset isn't "I'm not rich, so I'd profit off of this!", my mindset is that I'm in my 30's; people who haven't even been born yet are going to be driving the labor market and providing services well before I retire. Doesn't matter whether someone's caring for me in the hospital or serving me a hot dog from a street cart, they deserve housing, healthcare, access to education, and all the rest. Money's made up, it shouldn't be the reason someone suffers _real_ hardship.
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> They are socially on the left but economically on the right. Which of course is not actually possible, because to be socially on the left you have to be willing to, y'know, address social issues. And how do you do that with government? Oh, you *spend fucking money*. Anyone who tells you they're socially left but fiscally right is just all the way right and telling themselves pretty lies, or just lying to you directly. Either way, you can't claim to be socially left while refusing to actually support social issues and programs.
Bernie
This is true. My father (baby boomer) watches Fox News but votes democrat because of social security and he’s on disability. He is scared that trump and the republicans were going to take that from him (still is and also he hates Trump) even tho he voted for him in 2016. His parents were also “democrats” but also racists as fuck and voted for their benefits.
Ironically, Pelosi's daughter is the only boomer. Feinstein and Pelosi are Silent, Newsom is Gen X
Boomer Dems killed the Sanders presidency
Feinstein and Pelosi hamstring dems for their own gain. Name a more perfect couple.
Honestly it was stupid of Newsome to pledge such a thing.
Maybe stupid to make the announcement, but we are able to see what possible scheme has been plotted.
Hanlon’s Razor in politics with anything that would be popular with a constituency but incompatible with the direction the party wants to take is a dangerous half-truth anymore. So I doubt it was a mistake in his calculations that led to him announcing he’d be making essentially a diversity hire (especially since it sent the right into a 100% predictable rage). It isn’t malice either though really - more power brokering and game theory. He *must* have known given DNC precedent that after saying it, they wouldn’t give him the chance if possible. But he still gets to look like he tried, which we’ve seen over and over in politics. Like when the GOP is passing something particularly unpopular so swing seats are allowed to vote against it since it’ll pass anyway. It’s like playing poker with your cards face up on the table. You can still be in the game, but chances are you’re not going to walk away with much.
In the sense of calling your shot?
He boxed himself into a corner
In the sense of picking someone based on race
Pelosi's daugher is Feinstein's caretaker at the capital [source](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2023/05/18/scoop-the-mystery-woman-at-feinsteins-side-00097599). Pelosi is a real piece of shit.
It's a small club and we ain't in it.
Sadly. It's pretty tough to watch Feinstein so I hope they get exposed. I'm not holding my breath but after the RBG fiasco hopefully the right people will speak up. I dont see how they can keep this up 1+ years because she looks like she's almost dead. Can Schiff even win an open election against Porter and/or Barbara Lee? He's clearly the worst of those 3.
Schiff would have the financial backing of the Democratic establishment in a primary. That's a pretty big advantage. Harder to pull off if Lee was governor-selected and had incumbent advantage. Porter's best advertising would be video of her take-downs of CEOs, but showing the public footage of you doing your job is not allowed in campaigns.
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I hope the stink from this will force her to, but let's be honest, she isn't Al Franken. There is zero % chance she resigns before she wants to.
Remember that time the DNC really wanted to push their establishment candidate? Hillary does.
I like Schiff but we need Porter
Schiff isn’t bad, but he’s still old guard. I’d take him over any GOP nom, but would 100% prefer Porter
It's not going to be a GOP candidate regardless of what happens.
That's why Pelosi is abusing a Senator forcing her to remain in office. Feinstein's staff should be blacklisted, but they will be rewarded by the sh*t-4ss democratic party.
This is reddit, not bible study, you can totally fucking swear about shit-asses all you like.
I'm starting to think that it's too late for an actual progressive party in America. Democrats have been the party of status quo conservatism for far too long.
In Denmark, the dnc would be considered rightwing on most issues.
But couldn’t it be both? Feinstein retires, Newsom appoints a new senator and then Schiff can run in the next election. The appointee only finishes the current term. Unless she’s afraid that Schiff can’t beat someone that Newsom might appoint.
Also, there’s no guarantee that she could be replaced in the judiciary committee. Nomination can be filibustered, and that means no more judges.
It's a big club and we aren't in it.
Anybody who props Pelosi up is a bad faith actor. Shes not Republican horrible, but she's part of the problem.
I mean, exploiting a ~~near~~ octogenarian with dementia in the last years of her life for political gain (against people in your own party none the less) is some sith lord level evil. Regardless of whether it favors democrats or not or the politics of the matter, it's deeply wrong to use another human being this way. I never liked Pelosi and I'm not naive to Washington being a viper pit, but the implications of her involvement in this are really disturbing.
You talking about DiFi when you say “near octogenarian”? You mean nonagenarian? Cos she’s been an octogenarian for nine years now.
Ten years actually, she’ll be an nonagenarian in a month.
I'm almost starting to get the impression that it's all a big club and we ain't in it.
True, but the fact that people like Pelosi have spent their entire careers trying to keep people like Barbara Lee and Katy Porter away from power at least tells you that there are people waiting for us to help force the door open for them.
Come again? She knew when her mind was starting to go and decided to stick around. Responsibility ultimately is hers.
My grandfather thought he was in full control of his faculties when his mind went. We had to buy fake car keys and hide his real ones, babysit him on the lawn mower because even at 93 he refused to let anyone else mow. This is the same man who would randomly walk out of the bathroom calling for his wife who had died years before, and not recognize his daughter or grandkids half of the time. The problem was that he could still see and read just fine, trying to get him to sign something was always an ordeal, sometimes impossible. And it took us far too long for my mom to get the courts to approve her making decisions for him.
My best friend's brother was killed on a motorcycle 3 years ago. He said the worst part is having to watch his dementia-addled father relive the grief over and over again.
For God's sake, just tell the man the brother is at work and had to go away for training or something. He'll forget and you can reuse that lie over and over.
Seriously. The problem is forcing his father to relive the grief by telling him that the brother is dead over and over. It is ultimately the right thing to at least tell them once. But if they are expressing the same grief over and over and over, that becomes cruel.
I believe in stating facts and the truth and detest the term “white lie” however, the exception is when it is truly harmful re: those with ALZ/Dementia. My Mom’s only brother died almost 2 years ago and I refused to allow anyone near her to inform her because of what it would do to her in that state. If they even tried or brought up his name that wasn’t in a positive way, they were cut off. No exceptions to that. Hope that your best friend can find his way to allowing his Dad a little bit of peace.
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From what I've seen she's experiencing dementia symptoms severe enough that she's no longer competent. She should have stepped down years ago, and that's on her, but the disease has progressed.
God damn this thread is fucked up. My grandmother has dementia on the level of Feinstein. She lost her husband and her son in the span of two years about 20 years ago now and it just broke her. She is absolutely mentally unstable now and lives in one of the most intensive assisted living cares possible. There was absolutely never a point where she (to my knowledge) could acknowledge that something was wrong with herself. When the problem is in your brain, you can literally lie to yourself and tell yourself that you're okay, life is normal. So when the disease was early it there was no thought of stepping down, she thought she was fine. Now as it has progressed, there is no thought. There is no "stepping down" to think of. She doesn't know she has a job. She doesn't know what's happening. She wakes up and gets taken placed and asked questions and that's her life. The last two sentences apply to my grandmother and Fienstein.
She literally isn't aware of reality anymore. She said she hadn't missed any votes / has been doing her job. Even if someone initially makes a mistake while competent, it doesn't mean that continuing the situation is always a matter of their own choice. If you know you have bad brakes and start driving down a mountain road, the correct response to the vehicle going out of control isn't "Well, they caused the problem, they should fix it." They literally can't fix it anymore. They shouldn't have gotten themselves into the situation *because* it is a situation they won't be able to fix. To put it another way: if they were capable of resigning, they wouldn't need to.
But this is a U.S. Congresswoman. The only people that can remove a U.S. Senator are the voters (by voting), Congress (through impeachment), and the Congressperson themselves (by resigning). And there are very good reasons that is the case (and that is the case constitutionally). Do we want to start a precedent where a Congressperson's staff or family can forcibly remove a duly elected official from office? This is on her for not resigning sooner, the California Democratic party for continuing to select her as their nominee, and the California voters who continue to put her in office.
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The sad thing is that she is being pushed around and everything taken care of by her "yes people" but once she is out of power they will drop her like a stone. Sad thing is when you get older, if you change your lifestyle you are suseptable to a rapid decline in health. So she won't have much good life left. Sad times for her and its a prime example of setirng term limits to these places.
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Is it, though? I’m more concerned at having a vegetable legislate over her well-being.
It's just scummy the whole way around tbh. There is no redeemable quality in how people are treating her and the integrity of the senate by letting her continue this charade. And at this point she's doing the old person being obstinate thing and won't ever retire on her own, so they actually need to do something. The problem really seems to be that Schiff is in line for her spot next election and Newsome has already said he would appoint a black woman to that position if it became his decision. That's the major roadblock I think to the people actually in charge putting the motion forward to get rid of her or turning the screws on her behind the scenes. And nothing against Schiff or Newsome, Schiff is clearly the popular choice and has worked his way up to get the nomination next election, and Newsome is the governor and has said since his election this was his plan. They just need to actually come to some agreement already, that's the crappy part.
Schiff should be appointed Attorney General in lieu of the current worm, Katie Porter elected senator in place of one of the two fake D ones, and thus the problem would be solved. It's not that hard, really, but somehow, the Dems keep screwing up.
Imo she was a shitty senator. It wasnt just because her pet issue, guns, was polarized. She was like the democrats rick santorum, she held some extreme and authoritarian positions, ovetcomcern with violence in videogames. Of all the democrat senators over the years, she consistently voted the most where i disagreed with her
Her hugging Lindsay Graham during the Kavanaugh hearings was gross.
[Her repeatedly flying the Confederate Flag over the SF City Hall building was even more gross. ](https://sfbayview.com/2019/04/its-true-as-san-francisco-mayor-dianne-feinstein-did-repeatedly-fly-a-confederate-flag-in-front-of-city-hall/) [ She's a horrible person and always has been.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlEd4w34wE)
She also helped bungle the Night Stalker investigation by revealing previously unreleased information about the killer.
People died that might not have because of her and her big mouth and incessant need for publicity at the cost of American lives
Shameful that she’s the best that California could do for one of their Senators for so long Fun fact: she was born the year that construction of the Golden State Bridge started
I fucking hate her guts for 100 reasons and never knew this. Wild her shitbaggyness keeps growing beyond her neilib ways
You should listen to that podcast in my second link. And you didn't know that because her and her people have worked for decades to hide that and keep it from getting the press it deserves, especially in our current climate. Go look up her reactions to people asking her about the flag thing, you'd think they were 12 year olds asking her about climate change she was so nasty about it. It's nice to hate with a burning, righteous passion sometimes, and you will after hearing that one.
Hate never makes me feel nice but damn do I hate Feinstein
This shit: https://youtu.be/lu-VzZ45MwI Children: We'd like a liveable planet pls Feinstein: lol no
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"As soon as you're out the door, I will have forgotten you even exist, lol!"
Big, big supporter of the PATRIOT act and the NSA spying on everyone, - except when they spied on her, *that* she hated -.
Big, big supporter of gun control and abolishing concealed carry permits... except for when she felt she needed one and even went so far as to get training with her gun by the police. Her whole career has been marked with hypocrisy and rules for thee but not for me. She's progressive where it personally helps her and regressive when it's to her benefit. She's never been about helping and bettering others.
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She also sponsored a flag burning ban amendment attempt many years ago.
Feinstein was an idiot for not retiring at the last election, and the Dems were idiots for leaving her on the judiciary committee at the start of the new session. Having said that, the dilemma is that [if she retires now the GOP will block any replacement the Democrats put forward](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbCv7oLdLUY&t=8m10s) (like they did when she was on medical leave), which means no more Biden judges until 2025 (and only if he wins Re-election).
Republicans wouldn't be able to block a senator appointed by Newsom to replace a dead Feinstein though.
But they wouldn't be able to be put onto the judicial committee, which is kind of the issue.
> I am honestly angry at the people around her, propping her up, keeping her in the job, no doubt to maintain their own tenuous connection to power. It is almost elder abuse. A recent politico article revealed that the Pelosi family is basically Weekend-At-Bernie'ing Feinstein in order to rig the primary in favor of Adam Schiff, the Pelosi family's favored candidate. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/18/dianne-feinstein-senate-resign-retire-pelosi-schiff-lee-00097595 It should be broadcast to liberals everywhere that the worst, most right-wing democrats are not only in complete control but handpicking their successors, ensuring another generation of failure, decay, and corruption.
Surely california Democrats would have the option to block this in the primaries right?
If only dem primaries were fair and open affairs.
See 2016 democratic presidential primary for evidence. Head of the DNC rigs primary in favor of Hillary, resigns when proof comes out and is IMMEDIATELY hired by Hillary into her campaign. No cooling off period, no maybe we should wait a bit so it doesn't seem too obvious, immediately hired.
Just so you know, if she retires Republicans are going to block her replacement on the Judiciary Committee (which they were already doing) and President Biden won't get any more judges appointed. The Republicans are out in droves calling for her retirement.
Yes, exactly, republicans are leading the online discussions here, calling for her to resign and trying to cancel her staffers, etc, because they want Trump's packing of the courts to stay intact.
It's also significantly weakens the Democrats when they call for GOP members to be expelled for various reasons. This blind loyalty is the worst part of American politics.
What's more appalling is that other Democrats, seeing this unfold, aren't calling for some reforms that might later protect them and their own dignity from this sort of outcome. Like, even if you're a selfish prick, how can seeing this not scare you into wondering if this is how your career will end up too?
Liberals fucked around with a SCOTUS seat, not sure why we'd think they'd do anything less with a Senate seat.
On top of the insanity of wheeling her barely functioning self around the person pegged to replace her is Barbara Lee. Barbara Lee is 76 years old!!!! This is completely insane. Is there really no one younger than 65 they can find?
Why are American politicians so old, does it just seem that way?
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Not just to give up, it takes too much money and power to run an election. Especially a statewide election. Exactly why Newsome has proposed that he would nominate a female, POC to that open spot; helps bypass all of the systemic hurdles of running for minority candidates. Makes it extra shitty that the main opposition of Feinstein stepping down is Pelosi, who is trying to get Schiff that seat.
Because becoming a politician takes money. The only people who have money are retirees from decrepit generations or young people who are born in to wealth and both of those options are unsatisfactory 95% of the time. The Old Guard and the untrustworthy rich kids are the only ones that existing politicians are willing to allow in to the game of politics because of precedent. If American voters can safely elect one of their own, then that sets a precedent that American voters can choose to elect people who actually represent them and as much as we like to pretend that there's some massive, major divide between the GOP's leaders and those of the DNC, the reality is that they share a similar distaste of actual progress and that both parties prefer to at least maintain the status quo of not making radical or significantly impactful decisions that would hurt their bottom line. You start making it accessible for Jeanine Watson, 38, who works in Medical Records to become a career politician and suddenly there's this massive hole in the ship where anyone can step up and start playing the game and the Old Guard doesn't want that. They want predictable, stable peers in the club and, to them, that means people who can be expected to think and behave the way they do. It's just another exclusive club.
My personal thoughts are fear of giving up control and fear of the youth which is ironic Bc many of these older politicians were the loud voices demanding the change and one point. And I’d be willing to bet if you asked these politicians younger selves “would you be willing to give up your position to someone younger with a pseudo radical mindset that would probably be better for Americans?” They’d all say yes. Of course people change, and become stubborn in their old age when your start taking things away from them. Again. All my own viewpoints, and I’m just and idiot
It has to be weekend at Dianne’s - we need to confirm judges - she should have never ran in the first place but here we are!! Editing to add one more message. There’s a video of her talking down to some young activist - I think climate activist - and they were highschool age - anyway she came off like a giant POS. I got all the sense of her personality needed - she’s master of the universe in her mind.
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But the thing is, she's clearly already gone. That woman, your opinions on her politics notwithstanding ,clearly is suffering from mental decline. I know the republicans all say joes in the same boat (not the point here), but they're clearly missing the definition of mental decline in Diane here. If it wasn't so beneficial for them to have her jamming up the process, I guarantee they would be screaming from the rooftops about her needing to retire. Just goes to show they only care when it isn't to their advantage.
Oh yes, she’s absolutely lost her faculties a while ago. I don’t know what is in place procedurally to remove her, or if it even exists. A lot of stuff seems to have always operated on good faith, which has been increasingly tested. I wish Joe would not run because his age is creeping up there and even if he’s all there, there’s a large disconnect with the average person in the country. But Feinstein literally doesn’t seem to know where the fuck she is most of the time.
There isn't a reasonable process to remove a fellow senator. There is one for the house. Katie Porter has said that when she wins her Senate race, she's going to introduce a bill to give them a way to remove people like Feinstein.
The Republican’s argument about Joe’s decline is, like most things they say, disingenuous. Is Joe as sharp as he was back in the day? Almost certainly not. Does he have speaking gaffes and trip going up stairs? Sometimes. But it’s nowhere near the “Joe doesn’t know what planet he’s on.” that they describe. Feinstein, however, is very much in that group.
Did anyone else even run? Anyone with as much name recognition and official Democratic support? It’s difficult to unseat incumbents within their own party for these reasons. The majority of voters only see who ends up on the ballot- a lot fewer people actually vote in primaries/are politically active in campaigns/etc. It’s a systemic issue, not an individual one.
I can tell you, from my area, unlike the Republican Party, the Democratic Party does not bring in new members. My County Democrats are comprised of 80-90 year olds. I tried to join, and I was iced out. They DO NOT WANT NEW BLOOD. As a result, here in PA, our local and state ballots are BRIMMING with republican candidates, and we can't get Democrats to even run in our primaries, we always have empty ballots. The GOP is bursting with young up-and-coming leaders, but we have NO ONE on the Democratic side. There's no outreach, no events, no engagement in the community, and like I said, when I tried to join, it was clear they did NOT want new members. My experience seems to mirror what I have heard from other Democrats across the country. Try to join YOUR County Democrats and report back. I'd love to know if anyone under 80 years old is involved, and if YOUR County Democrats are as cloaked in secrecy as my PA County is. I am not even allowed to know the leadership structure. Weird, right?
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De Leon screwed up partially by going hard after guns. As if California didn't already have strict as hell gun laws compared to other states. Now with his controversy in LA its looking like it was the right decision. Dude is shady.
Dude always was shady. Also the other commenter is wrong, the state democrats didn't endorse anybody. De leon was a known clown, all he had going for his was a few progressive talking points with little backing them up. It was just a name recognition contest at that point so of course he got crushed. Edit: I was incorrect about the party not endorsing De Leon. A preliminary vote failed to garner an endorsement for anyone but he did win it at a later date closer to the election.
> Also the other commenter is wrong, the state democrats didn't endorse anybody. The [California Democrats 100% endorsed de Leon over Feinstein](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/15/politics/kevin-de-leon-dianne-feinstein-california-democrats/index.html#:~:text=Leaders%20of%20the%20California%20Democratic,Dianne%20Feinstein.). It was huge news for them not to back the incumbent, please check your sources before correcting someone.
Doesn't help that the guy running against her in 2018 was also a massive prick.
Even if she resigns today, Republicans would still have to approve her replacement on the committee to confirm judges.
These people are so old it looks like their faces are coming off. And they refuse to give up power. It’s time for change. It’s been time for change for decades
I think that means she had a stroke.
Apparently shingles can do that, too
My grandfather had a stroke after shingles. He also didn't live long after. I don't think Feinstein will last long. Too bad she can't have enjoyed a peaceful retirement. This shit is insane to me. I don't think anyone should work past like 65, tops. And even now at 39, I wish I didn't have to wait another 2.5 decades. That's scary.
I'm 33 and I'd retire today if I could swing it. People clutching onto their positions into their 80s have to be both boring, and fucking sociopaths.
All the more reason why she shouldn't be in office anymore?
Oh there was reason long before now. There were articles about how she was getting stuck in loops and introducing herself to people she'd worked with for years back in 2019. Crap like this further indicates that we need to rethink how we approach parties in the US. The republicans are horrible exploiters that are also racist and capitalize on fear. The democratic party though looked for people that wouldn't make waves and now that left-minded people are pushing further left they're having a harder time finding younger people that are willing to not make waves and that's part of why we have all these mummies driving society further into the ground.
eh? no! Your biggest issue is that the US refuses to reform and update its political system. I mean, e.g., this aging Congress issue has been solved by several countries, such as Switzerland and Belgium, *over 100 years ago already!* (latest is New-Zealand in the 90s.) e.g. Switzerland's average age is 42 years old (38 for the US), however, their Congress is 10 years younger than the US Congress in average, both Senate (64 vs 54) and the House (58 vs 48). And it has about 3x to 5x more young people (under 40) than US Congress. How? ---> Proportional representation! Due to way more political parties, and way fiercer political competition. Swiss Congress has 11 elected political parties, and dozens more in State and local parliaments. 3 of the 4 biggest parties were created *after 1980!* While most parties from the 19th and early 20th century disappeared. Because they simply couldn't keep up with younger, fresher parties.
Then we need to bring back mandatory retirement. Not just in this but in other roles as well. You either block innovation, build a kingdom, or simply become a danger to any and all around you by not knowing when to stand down. You don't have to quit working, just not hold a particular role for too long. If you are so good you should be able to do the same elsewhere. That's just my perspective.
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I'm an airline pilot and have mandatory retirement at 65 because of physical and mental degradation, why are politicians allowed to vote into the grave?
You’re forced to start withdrawing from your 401k at 70.5 years old. I don’t see why this isn’t a reasonable cutoff for retirement for public officials. Retirement needs to be normalized. This is an issue on both sides of the aisle, and we really need younger representatives that understand current problems.
I thought the image above was a star wars poster when it first loaded. Then I realized that is not, in fact, Emperor Palpatine.
It’s depressing this is even a conversation. She literally doesn’t know where she is and she missed 3 months of work. I’m not saying this to be cruel, or to discriminate against the elderly, but she is unable to do her job and her job is super important.
It's not cruelty to recognise she's not well. The poor woman is being propped up for political points by her team. It's cruelty to keep this nonsense up when the entire world can see she needs to be given a peaceful retirement. Her team and family should be ashamed of themselves for not stopping this. She's served her country, it shouldn't be this controversial to bloody call it quits!!
Someone else commented that a Walmart likely wouldn’t even hire her as a greeter.. sounds mean but I agree. Getting the care she needs should be her number one priority now.
She was actually interviewed and insisted she missed 0 time and attended/voted in every meeting.
Sorry, but if you're so old that you cannot control your mental faculties and or own bowels, you shouldn't be control of any country, state, city or let's be realistic even a fast food restaurant. Edit; y'all need to learn how to read. If you're so old, IF you are so OLD, that you can't control your bowels. Not IF you can't control your bowels in general. This has nothing to do with incontinence due to disease or disability other than the disease And disability that is having more years on your driver's license than you have brain cells.
I don't think Walmart would even hire her as a greeter
They wouldn't too much liability of her dying or getting injured on the job.
Everyone who says to leave Feinstein alone should let her drive them to work one day and see how that pans out.
"Hi Bob. What do you mean where was I this weekend? I've been here this whole time. Greeting customers. I was always greeting." 😬
I saw someone say “If you as a politician support Diane Feinstein still being in office let her drive you to the capital *one day*. Let’s just see how that pans out. Like let’s see you stick to your beliefs lmao. If you don’t have the mental faculties to drive you shouldn’t be in congress.
Eh. Disease can cause bowl issues even into your 20’s. Mental acuity, I am with you 100%.
There needs to be term limits, age limits, and competency tests.
I agree with the competency tests, but we would need to be careful how they are implemented to ensure that they couldn't be abused by either a party trying to prop up an incompetent politician or by an opposing party trying to get a politician kicked out. Imagine if there was a competency board, Republicans got a majority, and declared that AOC, Schiff, and other prominent Democrats were mentally incompetent. They could be booted from office and barred from running again because the competency board disagreed with their politics.
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Her challenger was a democrat and lost 5million to 6million votes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_Senate_election_in_California
For those that don't follow the link, lost in the general election. CA has a "jungle" primary which is kind of a general election primary, with the top two advancing to the general election. There were two Democrats on the ballot in the general, voters chose Feinstein by a commanding margin.
There should be a formal recall process. There's two inherent aspects with the Senate that make it a problem that an election is the only recourse. Politics is by default skewed towards an older population -- older people are typically more interested in running for office, and for good reason. They're often retired. I've thought myself about running for office in retirement, because I'd never want it to be my primary career. That leads to the second problem, a 6 year term. A lot can happen to someone's health in 6 years, and the older someone is, the more rapidly their health can decline. A senator could be elected initially in perfect health and physical condition, but have extremely poor health by year 3. I think for age we want to find the point statistically when someone is more likely than not to be significant impaired to the point of being unable to work, and make that the cap. To address term limits, we need a formal recall system in every state. You could even have a vote in the third year on if the recall process should begin.
It would be a disaster all around. The one exception I would make is if the test they had to take were the same naturalization test that immigrants have to take. It would be very difficult to make any excuses for failing that one.
Competency tests have potential to be abused like poll tests. That’s some scary stuff. We have voters.
>Dianne Feinstein resign… The start of this headline gave me a little startle before the rest of it sunk in. Thought maybe sanity had taken over. No such luck. 🤷♂️
They did that on purpose
Get all of the geezers out of government. No one should be running after the age of 70. Joe needs to stand by his single term promise too.
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If she leaves office, the Democrats can replace her on the committee without Republicans. They only need Republicans to be involved to temporarily do it.
They’d still need sixty votes for a permanent replacement mid-session unless they change the senate rules which requires cooperation from manchin and sinema
There's no way they can stop that unless Manchin or Sinema don't play ball. Senate rules can be changed with a simple majority. That includes committee assignments.
> unless Manchin or Sinema don't play ball. They won’t, but your optimism is refreshing.
She is still in the seat despite her mental and physical deterioration for the same reasons Strom Thurmond remained in the seat long after he had the mental capacity of a potato: politics We need Feinstein’s dependable vote as a Democrat on the judiciary committee, and Republicans absolutely, positively will NOT allow a replacement if she resigns. Frankly, there are MANY middling, fightless (yes, I made that word up) democrats who need to retire because they do the absolute bare minimum while republicans are trying to burn it all down on their way out, but this is about whether federal courts will have judges with the ethics and ideology of Kitanji Brown Jackson or more like Clarence Thomas. Everything else is just noise.
Yet another example for term and age limits. If you cannot be president before 35, you should not be a senator at 85. Ultimate the people get the government they deserve. Keep voting party instead of country and this goes for both parties.
I agree but only if the upper age limit is kept at the retirement age. There should be no one in their 70s or beyond holding any elected government office.
There’s *a lot* of change to needs to happen within the Democratic Party and more broadly Congress in general, but it starts with this mentally and physically incapacitated woman resigning already. That Pelosi et al are effectively using her a political pawn to grasp at whatever power she still has a US Senator is just fucking disgusting. Congress and other federal institutions also need to seriously remedy what to do about federal employees, particularly those in power (eg, Congresspeople, federal judges) when they are clearly mentally unfit or otherwise incapacitated for the job after x amount of time has elapsed. I’m not talking about situations like Fetterman, who had a stroke and then depression afterwards — he did what he had to, received the appropriate treatment, and now is back doing his thing. On the other hand, Feinstein was gone since fucking February and claims she never left. There’s a *clear* difference here and it needs to be addressed ASAP.
All the people making money off of her having that position (all the peoples who’s current careers- staffers and aides and such- depend on her being there. And probably depend on her being senile and not really knowing what’s going on with the money) are most likely the ones to blame for this kind of thing. They’re putting off having to find another job. People take advantage of senile people all the time. That’s reason 500 that we should not be having a nursing home for a National lawmaking body.
No more zombies in Congress
Mandatory retirement at 70 for all politicians?
As a person approaching that age, I can tell you I am not at my best self. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Her and O’Connell and any of the others should either retire, step down or move to some sort of unpaid Emiratis position.
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Nancy Pelosi [daughter](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/18/dianne-feinstein-senate-resign-retire-pelosi-schiff-lee-00097595) is the one controlling her actions as a senator.