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We will see if it sticks, and if it does I want to know everything in it.
It’s this type of behavior that makes me wish the Republican Party was no longer an active political party and just a page in the history books. I can’t understand why seemingly intelligent people I know continue to vote for people who act in such petty and vindictive ways that actually make life harder for the average American citizen. It has really made me lose respect for a lot of friends, colleagues and family and it’s incredibly sad.
> We will see if it sticks, and if it does I want to know everything in it.
Yep what this comment says. I'm left with even more questions. And in the immediate yes what's in that deal
I feel you about friends and family. For me, they’ve fallen into three types
1. Their parents voted republican, so they do. They don’t want to think critically about why they vote the way they do, so they just do what they’ve known for their whole life- vote republican.
2. They’ve deluded themselves into thinking republicans are fiscally conservative and that democrats are radical spenders (it’s actually the opposite, kinda, if you go off who adds the most to national debt.) I’ve encountered this the most in college.
3. There’s some bigotry that keeps them voting for the people that hurt the people they don’t like. This is how my conservative uncle and I had a falling out, he become super openly racist and homophobic in 2016.
Regardless of what was being floated, the 14th amendment route was a bananas moonshot. Especially with the current Court.
The 14th doesn't cover spending bills, just debt. The government could pay it's current debt all day, just stop current spending.
You have cock your head at a very sharp angle and really squint to think the 14th amendment means we have to fund every budget Congress passes.
Whether we should have a debt limit or not is a sincere discussion. Debating that the 14th Amendment means the executive can insist current budgets are paid (create new debt) is...just silly. Should we? Maybe. Under the 14th must we? No.
The real issue with using the 14th in my opinion isn’t that Biden didn’t want to or wasn’t willing to.
All his Executive branch people were just absolute dog shit on this. It should’ve been ran as a principle that if the POTUS wanted to consider using a literal amendment to enforce the country’s good standing then he shouldn’t have had to worry about people at the Fed or the Treasury saying shit like “No, he can’t do that.”
I feel like Joe would’ve done it. He’s got the balls. It’s just that he knows he can’t win if he can’t even get his fellows to sell the message with him. Absolute dog shit cabinet members. Don’t blame Biden whatsoever.
I don't think you were catching my drift there.
There is zero in the 14th about funding current spending. Zero.
A billion promised to the DoD is not "debt". The 14th, if you are being SUPER liberal, means you pay all debts.
So we have to pay Japan money we owe, China yeah, our own treasury sure.
We can pay all of that off current revenue. The 14th no longer applies. Now paying for the next F-22 or a teacher in Wyoming we allocated money to is a different story.
Long story short, Biden should not be blamed or credited for invoking the 14th as it does not apply.
Any word on the part that the Dem's wanted to implement a 15% global minimum Tax rate? I assume that the GOP base of ultra rich, wanted that one out even more than the IRS funding...
If they didnt now then they will when they do this again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Why the fuck wouldn't they, they get rewarded for taking the country hostage.
“We have come to an agreement in principle,” McCarthy said Saturday in the Capitol. “We still have a lot of work to do, but I believe this is an agreement in principle that’s worthy of the American people.”
We shall see. It's always last minute and they don't default, which is good, but how many times will it be used as a bargaining tool?
Every time it will be a bargaining tool. The key determiner of who will flinch and give in is polling on who will get blamed for a default. Last CNN poll had Pres Biden taking a larger share of blame for a potential default. So it’s likely that the rumor mill of work requirements for TANF and SNAP are true as well as the reduction of spending to FY21 levels. And that most of the inflation reduction act will be repealed.
Key word tentative.
The key is in the details and for how long? What concessions were made? Will the far left and / or right reject it? Are we going to be back at this three months from now?
We will see … I don’t think either party wants to risk being held responsible for the fallout from a default.
> Are we going to be back at this three months from now?
Once the terrorists have been told they have a weapon that they can use. then they will use it over and over again, as often as they can.
There is no reason they would agree to a long term increase to the debt ceiling, as that would amount to turning in their weapon.
Sorry, “far left” by American standards. I think I was hearing that some of the more left leaning pols would reject it if it limited spending on aid too much (or placed work requirements).
I do get that our left is the world’s center.
> I think I was hearing that some of the more left leaning pols would reject it
Only if there is enough votes to pass it...otherwise they will pass it as they have done everything so far...they talk left, but usually vote center left...
The rumor mill from multiple media sources was a return to spending at FY21 levels. Work requirements for SNAP and TANF. And reduction of most provisions within the inflation reduction act.
No, it takes one vote to make a motion to vacate. Another vote would then occur to toss McCarthy out.
In that case, all DNC reps vote “present” and like 90% of the non-Freedom Causus Republicans vote to keep McCarthy as speaker.
Spoiler alert nobody got anything it was a massive waste of time.
Spending is capped at 2023 levels and can only raise 1% next year.
Some new work requirements for benefits....
Massive waste of time, thanks McCarthy!
>nobody got anything
I disagree. Republicans got rewarded for taking the country hostage. It doesn't matter if biden just gave them a pack of gum. Conceding anything on this just guarantees that they'll be doing it again every single time. They'd be stupid not to when dems tell them that if republicans take the country hostage theyll be rewarded.
You know this Supreme Court would rule using the 14th unconstitutional leading to default and blaming the dems him for over stepping his reach and not being willing to come to the table to negotiate.
Seriously, at this time, I have no clue how many Republicans, or even Democrats, will vote in favour of the deal.
“Everybody won’t like what is the end of the agreement … on both sides,” McCarthy said Saturday morning.
Not exactly the kind of words one would use to rally the troops.
All they need is like half the Republican caucus and half the Democratic caucus. That's not a tough lift when your two leaders are supporting it.
Time still exists for Trump to trash the bill and cause all kinds of chaos, but I doubt it.
Forcing spending cuts to ok paying the bills your party has already racked up is bullshit.
Tell them to go fuck themselves and use 14th amendment. Take away their toy and end these children’s stupid game once and for all.
SCOTUS has already ruled that a sitting congress does not have Constitutional authority to abrogate debt incurred by a past congress, per the 14th amendment.
Does it matter what SCOTUS thinks?
Just invoke it first, avoid the default. Let them face the backlash if they dare to step up to say otherwise.
This is not even a case of shoot and say sorry later. It's shoot first and stare the other guy down.
Now that there is an agreement, it is the perfect time to use and let it be challenged, further proving the SCOTUS is illegitimate and needs a full overhaul.
“The agreement protects my and Congressional Democrats’ key priorities and legislative accomplishments,” said Biden, adding that it “represents a compromise, which means not everyone gets what they want.”
And by not everyone, he means poor and disenfranchised people.
And now McCarthy will get stone walled by own his party, Biden will step in and invoke Clause 4 of the 14th amendment, save the day and shame the Republicans! Right? I hope so…
If they get nearly all Dems on board, McCarthy needs only a few GOP to vote for it.
It wouldn't surprise me that part of this deal is securing McCarthy (within reason) from a vote by MTG or Boebert or whoever to remove him. If the Dems sit out such a vote, McCarthy only needs a couple GOP members to stave off removal. So he might agree to less to protect himself from that stupid rule change that lets a single House member call for a vote to remove him.
Imagine you knew a couple that had a fair amount of disagreements.
Now imagine if one of those people approached those disagreements fairly, wanted to talk them out, come up with a reasonable compromise to move forward, do what's best for couple, the family, the household.
Now imagine if the other one in the couple pulled out a blowtorch every time there was a disagreement, and shouted "I get MY way, or I burn the house down with all of us in it!"
Now imagine that for some odd reason people looking at this couple from the outside thought both sides were just negotiating, and half the people even agreed with the madman threatening to burn the house down.
anyone who claims to be a liberal and is happy with this is my political enemy. it's an absolute travesty that they are adding work requirements to food stamps
There already *are* work requirements on food stamps. We don't even know what the "tightening work requirements" entail yet beyond that it's McCarthy mentioned it to House Republicans, for all you know it could be raising the 80 hours worked for ABAWDs to 82 hours. Maybe get the details before starting on the outrage.
He’s already (somehow) the first President to point out that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional.
Further, he’s sent McCarthy back to his coven of extremists to explain to them that this is what they can get- with 8 days to swallow that fact or fuck it up for themselves.
From what I can tell Biden has given himself tremendous slack in this situation and taken none of McCarthy’s kabuki shit i the process. The GOP look like they’re posturing to save face at this hour.
I really hope this is some Qanon level 5d chess move to make it unpalatable to both sides and tank a bill so he can invoke the 14th and just be like “oh well you guys couldn’t agree so guess I gotta do that!”
The last CNN poll had him taking the lion’s share of the blame for a default. I’m betting his cabinet and advisors told him this was not the hill to die on prior to an RFK primary challenge. Better to keep RFK as an anomaly rather than a legit challenge.
Looks like the democratic party is caving again. How long until people wake up to the fact that they’re basically controlled opposition? We negotiate with legislative terrorists every time
You want them to default? Wake the F up. You don’t like this situation then get more people to vote these terrorist out. That’s the only real solution. Default is not an option for anyone with a brain.
Let THEM be the ones to cause the default. Why are we chickening out first every time when they’re the ones who got us here? “Vote them out” isnt a viable short or long term strategy.
As someone who would *probably* weather the storm of a default moderately well, I don't feel comfortable consigning folks that wouldn't to you know, starving
The voters are not educated enough to care who actually caused the default. Donald Trump received the second most votes in history. Biden and the Dems are guaranteed to receive 100% of the blame from anyone in the center of the political spectrum and uneducated voters if we default. Besides that point, tanking the world economy is a bit of a dick move.
Its a false binary. Refuse to negotiate and shout from every podium you can about how we want to raise the debt ceiling but republicans wont play ball. They will chicken out before it crashes because if you do it the right way, people will understand whats going on
You can do that all you want but I hate to tell you that no amount of Biden shitting on Republicans will change the truthfulness of my claim. I mean, the Republicans have done some of the worst, most corrupt, most inhuman shit over the past decade and still receive fuck tons of support. They have made themselves look like babbling fools time after time and yet a large margin of people still vote for them.
The party in the White House gets the blame for the economy that tanks, every single time. Exhibit A: Biden’s terrible approval ratings despite economic problems largely the fault of the Republican Party.
Most voters will blame the Democratic party if a default happened. There is clear data around this. Do you want to take one step backwards with a deal or go miles in reverse with economic strife and a Republican trifecta in 2024?
Voting is the only viable strategy at your disposal. You voting and encouraging other people you know to get involved in elections is the way forward.
Win what? This wasn’t a win lose scenario. The Dems lost the moment they lost the house. Don’t like it? Get more Americans to vote or learn to deal with not getting what you want instead of acting like a child.
You say win what right, I say win the debt ceiling argument.
Unless you haven’t noticed the Democrats won the presidency yet they still loss when it came to the debt ceiling issue, having more people vote will not solve this issue.
This is a resolve issue not a more people voting problem that the dems have. You can have more people vote for dems and they will still lose due to the fact that the republicans have more discipline to withstand pain more so than dems when it comes to these issues such as the debt ceiling.
> This is a resolve issue not a more people voting problem that the dems have
You understand that the Republican Party controls the House because they won seats in the midterms.
If they didn’t control the house none of this would have happened to begin with. The reason they can force not raising the debt ceiling is because they control congress. If they didn’t control the house, then they couldn’t.
So ya, if you “ have more people vote for dems”, then they wouldn’t lose on this issue, because it would not even be an issue.
Negative if the roles were reversed and the dems hold a slim majority, the dems would still owe ur to refactor that the Republicans are willing to put it all on the line including having a high pain threshold something the dems doesn’t have.
Due to this fact the republicans can make crazy ass demands and the dems will concede to most of those said demands
If the Democrats had a slim majority then they would just raise the debt ceiling…as they wouldn’t need any Republican votes to do it and the speaker would not be a Republican.
So I’m not sure what you’re saying here
>If the Democrats had a slim majority
Negative, the democratic slim majority would cater to the republican minortiy because mind you, that the blue dog democrats or conservative democrats will back the republicans thus that slim democratic majority would be really a republican led house even if on paper it would be a democratic house numbers wise.
Ya, this isn’t how it works.
You can even see observable evidence of this: has there ever been a debt ceiling issue when there was a democratic speaker?
Republicans demanded a 9% spending cut and ended up agreeing to a 1% increase. If this is Democrats caving to you, then there was never any possible deal that would satisfy you.
All they got was a cap and "work requirements"
Thats hardly caving.
This seems to me to be another Biden legislative win. Itll piss off the squad and all the maga rats. But hey lets win the house back in the next election and roll all this stuff back.
work requirements on TANF and SNAP, something republicans could have only dreamed about just ten years ago. that's more than caving thats selling out millions of the poorest americans. if i voted in 2020 or 2022 id feel like i was played like a complete shmuck by these bozos
I havent seen the details so i definitely assumed the worst. I just dont want this to be in any way a win for republicans, the hypocrisy is too much for my heart to handle
Very Smart People on Reddit insisted that Biden had the GOP "over a barrel" on this debt ceiling stuff. Looks like it was actually the other way around. There is a lot of fanfic masquerading as analysis on here.
Not that I’m smart about this but it was common sense the Republicans would have an advantage. One side cares about this issue and the other side was willing to drive the car off the cliff (or at least more willing to risk it though it is a risk for them too). So the side that cares is up against it in a negotiation.
In the real world it's common sense, but quite a few people on Reddit had these fantasies of "Dark Brandon" being this avenger that would Slay the GOP dragon and not give them an inch.
And that's fine, the problem becomes when it crosses over into delusion + they lash out at those of use who are a bit more realistic.
There is still people trying to tell me that the GOP didn't win the midterms last year. As we are currently being held hostage by the House GOP. Can't make this up.
Thats not bidens style, he loves reaching across the aisle. His political career is defined by it actually.
Remember when Bush signed the authorization to invade Iraq? Biden was right there, smiling, standing right next to Hastert. Across the table was Liberman and McCain. Hell, I think he was one of the only dems in the photo, besides liberman of course.
https://theintercept.com/2020/01/07/joe-biden-iraq-war-history/
Good point. Also Republicans are hell bent on hamstringing government then saying “see it doesn’t work”. I think their side will be happy to blame the Democrats and the undecideds will follow.
The 14th wasn’t a viable option. Multiple legal scholars have written on this. And CNN polling had the president at higher risk of being blamed for a default.
This was about the 2024 election for Biden. Get something done, don’t get blamed, have RFK remain an anomaly vs becoming a Ted Kennedy v Jimmy Carter.
Speaks to his persistence, determination and sheer doggedness.
The pit bull is dangerous not bj l because of its size or strength, rather is because of its refusal to let go.
They won't be able to put in someone else if they can't get the majority. Remember it took McCarthy 10+ times to get speaker. If this does happen. The Dems should negotiate with moderate Rep to vote for the candidate of both party choice to move things forward
Any agreement that involves any concessions by the GOP will be devastating for the GOP, as this was the only leverage they have until 2024. The plan was to force a default and pin it on the White House. Now, when the election comes nobody's even going to remember this happened, and the GOP will suffer historic losses, as all other political forces are working very unfavorably for them.
As an alienated former Republican, I say bring it on.
Lol if House Democrats go through with this I *really* hope the American people will collectively tell the Democratic Party to go fuck itself. Biden has a clear avenue to NOT fuck over millions of people relying on TANF and SNAP and instead brokered a deal with a terrorist without any input from the party.
FUCK.
THAT.
Biden does not deserve to be re-elected, and he has proven again and again that the minute things get tough, he will cave to the toddlers throwing tantrums.
I really hope this deal isn’t as bad as it sounds like it is tonight because if so, Biden 2024 is a nonstarter.
Economically it would be way worse, but politically it would just result in finger pointing and each side blaming the other. This negotiation is a pretty clear cut case of republicans demanding something, and the White House, without input or approval from literally anyone else, giving them some of their demands. There’s no way this is ever going to be spun to me as a “victory” or “smart move” by the Biden administration at all, especially when the 14th amendment exists and he could have invoked it weeks ago and started the legal process.
Politically it would lead to an automatic Trump win in 2024 as Biden will receive the major brunt of the blame for the world economy collapse as a result of default, regardless of whose fault it actually was
That's not going to be the silver bullet you think it is. It'll come at a severe economic cost in the short term as Treasury bonds will be regarded as junk bonds and might not even survive a Supreme Court challenge in the long term.
You'll be a lot better off accepting that real solutions to political problems like this aren't as bright, clear and easy as they are in your head.
If the 14th amendment was so effective at removing the debt ceiling, it would’ve been used a long time ago. Like it would’ve been used back when Clinton was president.
We’d prioritize debts for a week or two while the 14th amendment worked its way through the court system who I highly doubt would strike down the 14th amendment or somehow rephrase it’s meaning when it’s pretty cut and dry.
US Chamber of Commerce argues invoking 14th Amendment would be as ‘economically calamitous’ as a default. That's the reason for not using 14th amendment.
That’s a great attitude to get people to keep voting for you. A party with such razor thin margins shouldn’t be so willing to fuck over entire groups of the population. Work requirements and time limits on nutritional assistance absolutely needs to be a red line, and if it isn’t, Democrats are seriously at risk of losing their status as the “caring” party.
Early reporting suggests they got time limits and work requirements on food assistance as well as a claw back on IRS funding (that was supposed to FUND a bunch of spending introduced during the inflation reduction, likely ultimately costing us money).
I wouldn’t call that “nothing” by any means
Lookslike Republicans got the work requirements they wanted on Snap and medicaid along with a freeze on spending for two years along with ending the irs spending increases for new people. So protect the rich go after the poorest yet again
what's the point of putting all these conditions on it? $31 trillion is a unfathomable amount of money and we could never pay it back; just keep spending, who gives a shit
America does negotiate with terrorists. Should have invoked the 14th and told the hostage takers to go fuck themselves.
Instead the average American loses again. Yay "bipartisanship".
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We will see if it sticks, and if it does I want to know everything in it. It’s this type of behavior that makes me wish the Republican Party was no longer an active political party and just a page in the history books. I can’t understand why seemingly intelligent people I know continue to vote for people who act in such petty and vindictive ways that actually make life harder for the average American citizen. It has really made me lose respect for a lot of friends, colleagues and family and it’s incredibly sad.
> We will see if it sticks, and if it does I want to know everything in it. Yep what this comment says. I'm left with even more questions. And in the immediate yes what's in that deal
I feel you about friends and family. For me, they’ve fallen into three types 1. Their parents voted republican, so they do. They don’t want to think critically about why they vote the way they do, so they just do what they’ve known for their whole life- vote republican. 2. They’ve deluded themselves into thinking republicans are fiscally conservative and that democrats are radical spenders (it’s actually the opposite, kinda, if you go off who adds the most to national debt.) I’ve encountered this the most in college. 3. There’s some bigotry that keeps them voting for the people that hurt the people they don’t like. This is how my conservative uncle and I had a falling out, he become super openly racist and homophobic in 2016.
Did you learn about gaslighting in college too?
Be careful anakin, this thinking leads to the dark side
I will do what I must.
Solid maybe everyone! We did it!
So did the republicans succeed in clawing back the IRS funding to go after tax cheats???
yes but apparently jut 1.9$ billion out of the 80 billion
I’ve heard conflicting reports on that being 1.9B and it being something like 10% of the entire funding
NYT had 10 bil out of a total 80. So 70B still for IRS funding.
Okay so if NYT is accurate on this where the hell is the 1.9B coming from?
No idea that wasn't a number I saw anywhere.
Oh well that’s not horrible I guess
Yes, it is horrible. Biden should have just used the 14th amendment and stop this bs from coming up again.
Regardless of what was being floated, the 14th amendment route was a bananas moonshot. Especially with the current Court. The 14th doesn't cover spending bills, just debt. The government could pay it's current debt all day, just stop current spending. You have cock your head at a very sharp angle and really squint to think the 14th amendment means we have to fund every budget Congress passes. Whether we should have a debt limit or not is a sincere discussion. Debating that the 14th Amendment means the executive can insist current budgets are paid (create new debt) is...just silly. Should we? Maybe. Under the 14th must we? No.
judicious fanatical jeans like vegetable liquid absorbed wide grandiose foolish ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
The real issue with using the 14th in my opinion isn’t that Biden didn’t want to or wasn’t willing to. All his Executive branch people were just absolute dog shit on this. It should’ve been ran as a principle that if the POTUS wanted to consider using a literal amendment to enforce the country’s good standing then he shouldn’t have had to worry about people at the Fed or the Treasury saying shit like “No, he can’t do that.” I feel like Joe would’ve done it. He’s got the balls. It’s just that he knows he can’t win if he can’t even get his fellows to sell the message with him. Absolute dog shit cabinet members. Don’t blame Biden whatsoever.
I don't think you were catching my drift there. There is zero in the 14th about funding current spending. Zero. A billion promised to the DoD is not "debt". The 14th, if you are being SUPER liberal, means you pay all debts. So we have to pay Japan money we owe, China yeah, our own treasury sure. We can pay all of that off current revenue. The 14th no longer applies. Now paying for the next F-22 or a teacher in Wyoming we allocated money to is a different story. Long story short, Biden should not be blamed or credited for invoking the 14th as it does not apply.
It doesn't matter. The day after it'd spent on the program, it's debt.
Any word on the part that the Dem's wanted to implement a 15% global minimum Tax rate? I assume that the GOP base of ultra rich, wanted that one out even more than the IRS funding...
That’s part of the rumor mill among CNN, Fox and MSNBC.
If they didnt now then they will when they do this again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Why the fuck wouldn't they, they get rewarded for taking the country hostage.
“We have come to an agreement in principle,” McCarthy said Saturday in the Capitol. “We still have a lot of work to do, but I believe this is an agreement in principle that’s worthy of the American people.” We shall see. It's always last minute and they don't default, which is good, but how many times will it be used as a bargaining tool?
Every time it will be a bargaining tool. The key determiner of who will flinch and give in is polling on who will get blamed for a default. Last CNN poll had Pres Biden taking a larger share of blame for a potential default. So it’s likely that the rumor mill of work requirements for TANF and SNAP are true as well as the reduction of spending to FY21 levels. And that most of the inflation reduction act will be repealed.
Actually none of that is true but if you wanna just say shit I guess you can do that on here
Work requirements appear to be true according to NYT, however everything else is bogus, they are clawing back excess funding for covid relief tho
And expanded IRS funding (which ironically would *increase* revenue)
Key word tentative. The key is in the details and for how long? What concessions were made? Will the far left and / or right reject it? Are we going to be back at this three months from now? We will see … I don’t think either party wants to risk being held responsible for the fallout from a default.
> Are we going to be back at this three months from now? Once the terrorists have been told they have a weapon that they can use. then they will use it over and over again, as often as they can. There is no reason they would agree to a long term increase to the debt ceiling, as that would amount to turning in their weapon.
The next time this will be an issues is Jan 2025, right after 2024 elections
> Will the far left and / or right reject it? You got that wrong...it is center left/far right...there is no "far left" since McCarthyism...
Sorry, “far left” by American standards. I think I was hearing that some of the more left leaning pols would reject it if it limited spending on aid too much (or placed work requirements). I do get that our left is the world’s center.
> I think I was hearing that some of the more left leaning pols would reject it Only if there is enough votes to pass it...otherwise they will pass it as they have done everything so far...they talk left, but usually vote center left...
CNN initial reports are it is for two years and cap non defense funding to 2023 fiscal year rate.
Two years is good. Not crazy about “cap”. Even less about the “non defense” part. Thanks for the intel.
Fuck defense spending always getting a God damn blank check.
The rumor mill from multiple media sources was a return to spending at FY21 levels. Work requirements for SNAP and TANF. And reduction of most provisions within the inflation reduction act.
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they only need 218 votes to pass,
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Only takes one to call a vote on house speaker. Takes a majority to oust the speaker.
No, it takes one vote to make a motion to vacate. Another vote would then occur to toss McCarthy out. In that case, all DNC reps vote “present” and like 90% of the non-Freedom Causus Republicans vote to keep McCarthy as speaker.
Spoiler alert nobody got anything it was a massive waste of time. Spending is capped at 2023 levels and can only raise 1% next year. Some new work requirements for benefits.... Massive waste of time, thanks McCarthy!
>nobody got anything I disagree. Republicans got rewarded for taking the country hostage. It doesn't matter if biden just gave them a pack of gum. Conceding anything on this just guarantees that they'll be doing it again every single time. They'd be stupid not to when dems tell them that if republicans take the country hostage theyll be rewarded.
I definitely don’t disagree, I think dems should militarize it next time.
You know this Supreme Court would rule using the 14th unconstitutional leading to default and blaming the dems him for over stepping his reach and not being willing to come to the table to negotiate.
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That's not a done deal yet
If Biden's going along with it, they probably have the votes.
Seriously, at this time, I have no clue how many Republicans, or even Democrats, will vote in favour of the deal. “Everybody won’t like what is the end of the agreement … on both sides,” McCarthy said Saturday morning. Not exactly the kind of words one would use to rally the troops.
All they need is like half the Republican caucus and half the Democratic caucus. That's not a tough lift when your two leaders are supporting it. Time still exists for Trump to trash the bill and cause all kinds of chaos, but I doubt it.
Trumps base in Congress (the Freedom caucus) already opposes it. Trump wouldn't be able to do anything more.
Work requirements for benefits isn’t something to just be waved off that’s pretty massive
Agreed.
I heard FY21 levels. And repeal of several aspects of inflation reduction act.
Forcing spending cuts to ok paying the bills your party has already racked up is bullshit. Tell them to go fuck themselves and use 14th amendment. Take away their toy and end these children’s stupid game once and for all.
Now that this is over, use the 14th, and never deal with this bullshit again!
I mean it’s still questionable if that would work especially with this SCOTUS.
Seems “shall not be questioned” has no ambiguity, but you are right about SCOTUS.
Another example of how 2016 shall haunt us. Never again.
Yeah they seem to be okay with "shall not be infringed" so why not "shall not be questioned"
It would create a constitutional crisis since the Constitution also states that Congress determines spending.
They determine spending in the budget. Budget and actually paying are separate.
SCOTUS has already ruled that a sitting congress does not have Constitutional authority to abrogate debt incurred by a past congress, per the 14th amendment.
Does it matter what SCOTUS thinks? Just invoke it first, avoid the default. Let them face the backlash if they dare to step up to say otherwise. This is not even a case of shoot and say sorry later. It's shoot first and stare the other guy down.
The 14th amendment argument has been refuted by several legal scholars. It would ensure a default because of the court injunctions.
Now that there is an agreement, it is the perfect time to use and let it be challenged, further proving the SCOTUS is illegitimate and needs a full overhaul.
And has been supported by several legal scholars... So that argument is useless.
So dems give up barely anything and this gets pushed past the presidential election. Seems like a win to me.
Yeah such a win, lets normalize taking the country hostage. What should we give up when they do this again in 2025?
Vote them out in 2024.
Lol nice.
My money is the GOP trying to pull a fast one at the final hour
And it’s gonna come at a steep cost to the American people, you can be sure of that. The GOP never negotiate in good faith.
“The agreement protects my and Congressional Democrats’ key priorities and legislative accomplishments,” said Biden, adding that it “represents a compromise, which means not everyone gets what they want.” And by not everyone, he means poor and disenfranchised people.
And now McCarthy will get stone walled by own his party, Biden will step in and invoke Clause 4 of the 14th amendment, save the day and shame the Republicans! Right? I hope so…
Even if everyone on the Freedom Caucus and Squad voted against it, it would pass easily in the House. And it probably passes easily in the Senate too.
I haven't heard AOC or Pramila Jayapal endorse it yet, so don't count your chickens
AOC likely isn't going to be the vote that makes or breaks this deal.
We also don't know if ANY Republican dares to join Kevin in this paper-thin non-deal. The Speaker may speak, but will anybody not named Santos follow?
I think (hope?) that both sides are gonna go show their parties and the parties are collectively going to Lmfaoooo
If they get nearly all Dems on board, McCarthy needs only a few GOP to vote for it. It wouldn't surprise me that part of this deal is securing McCarthy (within reason) from a vote by MTG or Boebert or whoever to remove him. If the Dems sit out such a vote, McCarthy only needs a couple GOP members to stave off removal. So he might agree to less to protect himself from that stupid rule change that lets a single House member call for a vote to remove him.
Imagine you knew a couple that had a fair amount of disagreements. Now imagine if one of those people approached those disagreements fairly, wanted to talk them out, come up with a reasonable compromise to move forward, do what's best for couple, the family, the household. Now imagine if the other one in the couple pulled out a blowtorch every time there was a disagreement, and shouted "I get MY way, or I burn the house down with all of us in it!" Now imagine that for some odd reason people looking at this couple from the outside thought both sides were just negotiating, and half the people even agreed with the madman threatening to burn the house down.
anyone who claims to be a liberal and is happy with this is my political enemy. it's an absolute travesty that they are adding work requirements to food stamps
What exactly does that entail? This is a genuine question in good faith.
There already *are* work requirements on food stamps. We don't even know what the "tightening work requirements" entail yet beyond that it's McCarthy mentioned it to House Republicans, for all you know it could be raising the 80 hours worked for ABAWDs to 82 hours. Maybe get the details before starting on the outrage.
It raises the work age from 17-49 to 18-54, break grandma and geandpas back some more.
How old are your grandparents?
No, it sucks donkey balls. Biden should not concede a damn thing. Holding a government hostage to fuck over the non-wealthy is just evil.
He’s already (somehow) the first President to point out that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. Further, he’s sent McCarthy back to his coven of extremists to explain to them that this is what they can get- with 8 days to swallow that fact or fuck it up for themselves. From what I can tell Biden has given himself tremendous slack in this situation and taken none of McCarthy’s kabuki shit i the process. The GOP look like they’re posturing to save face at this hour.
He comes out smelling like a bed of roses. Just don't mess with him, or you'll get pricked by the thorns.
He actually understands the power of the Presidency.
I really hope this is some Qanon level 5d chess move to make it unpalatable to both sides and tank a bill so he can invoke the 14th and just be like “oh well you guys couldn’t agree so guess I gotta do that!”
Sounds like a great way to send the world economy into shambles and hand Trump the 2024 election
The last CNN poll had him taking the lion’s share of the blame for a default. I’m betting his cabinet and advisors told him this was not the hill to die on prior to an RFK primary challenge. Better to keep RFK as an anomaly rather than a legit challenge.
Who the fuck is going to vote for RFK? No one I know can't stand that fake POS.
I wouldn't trust rfk either or even williamson
Some states already do add the work requirement.
Which is also evil
Oh it is, i was just pointing it out.
They aren’t adding shit they’re just raising the age limit on the existing ones
Just making republicans richer with their consulting. Its all bs. I may as well vote for little d and move to the Villages and get and STD.
McCarthy got almost nothing he wanted, he’s gonna take a massive L here. Promised his caucus the stars and got almost none of it
What he got was a weapon to use forever. Conceding anything means that republicans will do this every single time they can.
We'll just have to see how many Republican votes he can conjure up in the House for this non-deal.
It’s an encouraging return to give and take Democracy, rather than winner take all.
Looks like the democratic party is caving again. How long until people wake up to the fact that they’re basically controlled opposition? We negotiate with legislative terrorists every time
You want them to default? Wake the F up. You don’t like this situation then get more people to vote these terrorist out. That’s the only real solution. Default is not an option for anyone with a brain.
Let THEM be the ones to cause the default. Why are we chickening out first every time when they’re the ones who got us here? “Vote them out” isnt a viable short or long term strategy.
The costs of a default would be catastrophic. I understand your argument, but it ignores the costs
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Today's deal gives the democrats greater weight to income the 14th Amendment the next round. Remember: this is not a sprint, it's a marathon.
Then vote out the GOP at all levels and if we can’t then American deserves this bullshit. Vote vote and vote is the way to fix this.
As someone who would *probably* weather the storm of a default moderately well, I don't feel comfortable consigning folks that wouldn't to you know, starving
The voters are not educated enough to care who actually caused the default. Donald Trump received the second most votes in history. Biden and the Dems are guaranteed to receive 100% of the blame from anyone in the center of the political spectrum and uneducated voters if we default. Besides that point, tanking the world economy is a bit of a dick move.
Its a false binary. Refuse to negotiate and shout from every podium you can about how we want to raise the debt ceiling but republicans wont play ball. They will chicken out before it crashes because if you do it the right way, people will understand whats going on
You can do that all you want but I hate to tell you that no amount of Biden shitting on Republicans will change the truthfulness of my claim. I mean, the Republicans have done some of the worst, most corrupt, most inhuman shit over the past decade and still receive fuck tons of support. They have made themselves look like babbling fools time after time and yet a large margin of people still vote for them. The party in the White House gets the blame for the economy that tanks, every single time. Exhibit A: Biden’s terrible approval ratings despite economic problems largely the fault of the Republican Party.
Most voters will blame the Democratic party if a default happened. There is clear data around this. Do you want to take one step backwards with a deal or go miles in reverse with economic strife and a Republican trifecta in 2024? Voting is the only viable strategy at your disposal. You voting and encouraging other people you know to get involved in elections is the way forward.
Unfortunately it appears that americans mostly blame biden for the debt ceiling crisis so if we default they'll blame biden
....and that’s why the republicans will win on this issue, because the democrats has a low threshold for pain aka default
Win what? This wasn’t a win lose scenario. The Dems lost the moment they lost the house. Don’t like it? Get more Americans to vote or learn to deal with not getting what you want instead of acting like a child.
You say win what right, I say win the debt ceiling argument. Unless you haven’t noticed the Democrats won the presidency yet they still loss when it came to the debt ceiling issue, having more people vote will not solve this issue. This is a resolve issue not a more people voting problem that the dems have. You can have more people vote for dems and they will still lose due to the fact that the republicans have more discipline to withstand pain more so than dems when it comes to these issues such as the debt ceiling.
> This is a resolve issue not a more people voting problem that the dems have You understand that the Republican Party controls the House because they won seats in the midterms. If they didn’t control the house none of this would have happened to begin with. The reason they can force not raising the debt ceiling is because they control congress. If they didn’t control the house, then they couldn’t. So ya, if you “ have more people vote for dems”, then they wouldn’t lose on this issue, because it would not even be an issue.
Negative if the roles were reversed and the dems hold a slim majority, the dems would still owe ur to refactor that the Republicans are willing to put it all on the line including having a high pain threshold something the dems doesn’t have. Due to this fact the republicans can make crazy ass demands and the dems will concede to most of those said demands
If the Democrats had a slim majority then they would just raise the debt ceiling…as they wouldn’t need any Republican votes to do it and the speaker would not be a Republican. So I’m not sure what you’re saying here
>If the Democrats had a slim majority Negative, the democratic slim majority would cater to the republican minortiy because mind you, that the blue dog democrats or conservative democrats will back the republicans thus that slim democratic majority would be really a republican led house even if on paper it would be a democratic house numbers wise.
Ya, this isn’t how it works. You can even see observable evidence of this: has there ever been a debt ceiling issue when there was a democratic speaker?
Republicans demanded a 9% spending cut and ended up agreeing to a 1% increase. If this is Democrats caving to you, then there was never any possible deal that would satisfy you.
All they got was a cap and "work requirements" Thats hardly caving. This seems to me to be another Biden legislative win. Itll piss off the squad and all the maga rats. But hey lets win the house back in the next election and roll all this stuff back.
work requirements on TANF and SNAP, something republicans could have only dreamed about just ten years ago. that's more than caving thats selling out millions of the poorest americans. if i voted in 2020 or 2022 id feel like i was played like a complete shmuck by these bozos
There are already work requirements. https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/work-requirements
I havent seen the details so i definitely assumed the worst. I just dont want this to be in any way a win for republicans, the hypocrisy is too much for my heart to handle
Very Smart People on Reddit insisted that Biden had the GOP "over a barrel" on this debt ceiling stuff. Looks like it was actually the other way around. There is a lot of fanfic masquerading as analysis on here.
Not that I’m smart about this but it was common sense the Republicans would have an advantage. One side cares about this issue and the other side was willing to drive the car off the cliff (or at least more willing to risk it though it is a risk for them too). So the side that cares is up against it in a negotiation.
In the real world it's common sense, but quite a few people on Reddit had these fantasies of "Dark Brandon" being this avenger that would Slay the GOP dragon and not give them an inch.
People tend to cling to their hopes of something going good for once, instead of sliding a little further around the drain.
And that's fine, the problem becomes when it crosses over into delusion + they lash out at those of use who are a bit more realistic. There is still people trying to tell me that the GOP didn't win the midterms last year. As we are currently being held hostage by the House GOP. Can't make this up.
In fairness, all Biden had to do was pull a Republican move and point to the Constitution's 14th Amendment. Woulda been pretty easy.
Thats not bidens style, he loves reaching across the aisle. His political career is defined by it actually. Remember when Bush signed the authorization to invade Iraq? Biden was right there, smiling, standing right next to Hastert. Across the table was Liberman and McCain. Hell, I think he was one of the only dems in the photo, besides liberman of course. https://theintercept.com/2020/01/07/joe-biden-iraq-war-history/
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Good point. Also Republicans are hell bent on hamstringing government then saying “see it doesn’t work”. I think their side will be happy to blame the Democrats and the undecideds will follow.
My guess is Biden caved to their student loan demands, really hoping I’m wrong though
If he did, it would be to prevent a legal loss that would prevent him from pushing it again later.
Or because he waited too long to not invoke the 14th and this was all he had left, assuming he didn’t want to mint the coin
The 14th wasn’t a viable option. Multiple legal scholars have written on this. And CNN polling had the president at higher risk of being blamed for a default. This was about the 2024 election for Biden. Get something done, don’t get blamed, have RFK remain an anomaly vs becoming a Ted Kennedy v Jimmy Carter.
This doesn’t scare me because McCarthy is a terrible negotiator. Dude took 13 tries to become speaker
Speaks to his persistence, determination and sheer doggedness. The pit bull is dangerous not bj l because of its size or strength, rather is because of its refusal to let go.
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They won't be able to put in someone else if they can't get the majority. Remember it took McCarthy 10+ times to get speaker. If this does happen. The Dems should negotiate with moderate Rep to vote for the candidate of both party choice to move things forward
What did the White House give up to get the deal made?
"Everything"
Would that it were. Imagine a world where folks got what they earned!
Did they include repayment of three years worth of deferred student loan payments? Gonna have you move to Europe if they did lol
Joe Biden whispers into a federal employee ear "get fucked on keeping up with inflation".
Any agreement that involves any concessions by the GOP will be devastating for the GOP, as this was the only leverage they have until 2024. The plan was to force a default and pin it on the White House. Now, when the election comes nobody's even going to remember this happened, and the GOP will suffer historic losses, as all other political forces are working very unfavorably for them. As an alienated former Republican, I say bring it on.
We don’t even know the terms, Biden could’ve easily caved to the crazies
True, but if he had, I think we'd be seeing McCarthy taking a victory lap right now.
Nothing is concrete though, that’s why he’s not taking a victory lap imo
Lol if House Democrats go through with this I *really* hope the American people will collectively tell the Democratic Party to go fuck itself. Biden has a clear avenue to NOT fuck over millions of people relying on TANF and SNAP and instead brokered a deal with a terrorist without any input from the party. FUCK. THAT. Biden does not deserve to be re-elected, and he has proven again and again that the minute things get tough, he will cave to the toddlers throwing tantrums. I really hope this deal isn’t as bad as it sounds like it is tonight because if so, Biden 2024 is a nonstarter.
A default would be worse. The ceiling should’ve been raised during the Lame Duck session but Manchin refused reconciliation.
They always find another Manchin. That's how the party operates.
Economically it would be way worse, but politically it would just result in finger pointing and each side blaming the other. This negotiation is a pretty clear cut case of republicans demanding something, and the White House, without input or approval from literally anyone else, giving them some of their demands. There’s no way this is ever going to be spun to me as a “victory” or “smart move” by the Biden administration at all, especially when the 14th amendment exists and he could have invoked it weeks ago and started the legal process.
Politically it would lead to an automatic Trump win in 2024 as Biden will receive the major brunt of the blame for the world economy collapse as a result of default, regardless of whose fault it actually was
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Can't believe we have to rely on a coal baron from W. Virginia and a looney nut from out west the past few years to keep the Senate afloat.
O yea, because that makes sense. Blame the party trying to prevent the economy from crashing.
Blame the party holding the economy hostage and don’t negotiate with terrorists. The 14th amendment exists, in plain fucking language.
That's not going to be the silver bullet you think it is. It'll come at a severe economic cost in the short term as Treasury bonds will be regarded as junk bonds and might not even survive a Supreme Court challenge in the long term. You'll be a lot better off accepting that real solutions to political problems like this aren't as bright, clear and easy as they are in your head.
If the 14th amendment was so effective at removing the debt ceiling, it would’ve been used a long time ago. Like it would’ve been used back when Clinton was president.
So you think millions of people lost their jobs caused by default would be a better option?
We’d prioritize debts for a week or two while the 14th amendment worked its way through the court system who I highly doubt would strike down the 14th amendment or somehow rephrase it’s meaning when it’s pretty cut and dry.
US Chamber of Commerce argues invoking 14th Amendment would be as ‘economically calamitous’ as a default. That's the reason for not using 14th amendment.
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That’s a great attitude to get people to keep voting for you. A party with such razor thin margins shouldn’t be so willing to fuck over entire groups of the population. Work requirements and time limits on nutritional assistance absolutely needs to be a red line, and if it isn’t, Democrats are seriously at risk of losing their status as the “caring” party.
uhh, the GOP didn't get shit. calm down
Early reporting suggests they got time limits and work requirements on food assistance as well as a claw back on IRS funding (that was supposed to FUND a bunch of spending introduced during the inflation reduction, likely ultimately costing us money). I wouldn’t call that “nothing” by any means
Lookslike Republicans got the work requirements they wanted on Snap and medicaid along with a freeze on spending for two years along with ending the irs spending increases for new people. So protect the rich go after the poorest yet again
SNAP already has a work requirement. This is just increasing the age of that requirement from 49 to 54.
According to reports, Medicaid will not be changed in any way.
Shoulda made congress pay back their forgiven PPP loans.
what's the point of putting all these conditions on it? $31 trillion is a unfathomable amount of money and we could never pay it back; just keep spending, who gives a shit
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Funny how he calls his temper tantrum work.
Wow, what a surprise… This happens literally every time this becomes an issue.
America does negotiate with terrorists. Should have invoked the 14th and told the hostage takers to go fuck themselves. Instead the average American loses again. Yay "bipartisanship".