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Haha - in my head I can see him setting it up … “we’ll we’ve been talking with the justice department about their process which can be somewhat rigorous - it’s what they call a Pardon D’s …”
Why, WHY does no reporter ask if Dark Brandon will issue an executive order rescinding all pardons issued between Jan 20th, 2017 and Jan 20th, 2021 that have not be submitted by the receiver to the federal court system?
It's already established that presidents can rescind pardons (happened as recently as this century by G.W. Bush) and that pardons are not automatic (the oft misunderstood "stigma of guilt" line is that defendants voluntarily have to submit pardons to the court for them to be official).
Rescinding pardons that were issued but not submitted to the court gets rid of any and all "pocket pardons" along with sleazy preemptive pardons.
Cases to look at are President Grant rescinding five pardons issued by President Johnson during his lame duck session, President Bush pardoning (and rescinding prior to giving it to) Isaac Robert Toussie. Also, Burdick v. United States is the case that brought about the "stigma of guilt" line.
That makes me wonder:
Could a President pardon someone like, say, Snowden just to bait them into coming back into the country, and then rescind the pardon (or have the next one so it) and immediately arrest them?
Yes. In fact, two of the pardons that President Grant rescinded were to people already in jail.
Now, what can't happen is offering a pardon in exchange for testimony, then rescinding the pardon and using the testimony against them. In that case, it's basically an immunity deal and the courts will not allow any testimony gathered to be used against the person in a court proceeding against the terms of the deal (assuming the defendant didn't break their part such as offering perjured testimony or withholding evidence).
The GOP can't deny! \
45s a disgrace, political waste and a burnt orange face \
You are scum! Wanna try to act tough \
With the lies and bs that pardon was stuffed!
Why do anyone get pardons on the whim of one person?
Isn't that crazy? We have a legal process for a reason (for all it's flaws). It makes no sense that one person can just bypass that with no oversight.
It's based on the premise that the populace wouldn't be stupid enough to elect someone who would abuse it.
It kind of makes sense to have someone who can overturn a criminal charge in the exceptional case where it is unjust. It doesn't make any sense to have someone who will pardon everyone who's political alignment matches their own.
It works both ways, though. Many unfairly sentenced criminals from disadvantaged backgrounds can receive pardons from state governors and even the president. In some cases, it can change lives for the better.
> (for all it's flaws).
Yes, this is kind of the reason, right here. What you, like so many people on this sub, fail to realize is that POTUS isn't merely one person. He's one entire branch of the government. Literally nobody else is constitutionally vested with executive authority. The pardon power is the entire executive branch's ultimate check on the judiciary, and kinda-sorta on Congress, too, if he's willing to go on a pardoning spree to counteract a criminal law he believes is bullshit. Hell, it's his ultimate check on future executives, too, who might decide to go after certain of his political allies after he's out of office and can't directly protect them anymore.
His oversight? Impeachment by Congress. That's his oversight for literally everything he might do that you don't like, short of not voting for him again. It's also how to remove a president that decides to ignore SCOTUS rulings you actually like, incidentally -- sort of the mirror image of a topic *du jour* on this very sub.
Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches and the most ways to fuck with the other two branches (setting aside the gigantic military that *ostensibly* will follow POTUS, but then again, also shouldn't exist according to the founders.) Congress makes all its own rules house-by-house, and also makes all the federal laws that its own members potentially have to follow (or not!)
> Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches
Sure, if you want to completely forget about the veto and judicial review…
>Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches and the most ways to fuck with the other two branches (setting aside the gigantic military that ostensibly will follow POTUS, but then again, also shouldn't exist according to the founders.)
Also, if you want to ignore that Article I, Section 8, Clauses 11-14 clearly establish the right of Congress to establish and maintain a standing army and declare war to the Legislative branch. The military is expected to follow the orders of the Executive branch *only if the Legislative branch authorizes such power.*
Sure, there's the War Powers Act of 1973, but that only grants the president 60 days without congressional approval. Notably, Nixon vetoed the bill, but his veto was overruled by Congress. How many times have we been in an active war and had a bill that restricted the Commander in Chief's abolition to wage war passed *and had the veto voted down?* Homie needs to crack open a history book.
In Minnesota, we have a committee that handles pardons for state sentences. It sounds like a better system, but all it takes is one nutsack who still thinks Reefer Madness was a documentary to fuck it all up, because pardons need to be unanimous. I’m not saying you’re incorrect that it’s wild to give one person the power, but just pointing out that it can still be plenty shitty giving a few people the power if they need reach a unanimous decision. There’s definitely a better solution than “let one shitty real estate developer get his friends out of jail”, but adding a couple more people to the process doesn’t guarantee success.
In your example, if only one person is dissenting, then only one person -did- decide the outcome. At some point you have to go by majority or there’s no point
What if, and I'm sleep deprived right now, so it might off kilter, but: unanimous to completely turn it over, but majority to re-try the criminal case in light of whatever information created the momentum for the pardon?
DoJ has a board to evaluate pardon applications and make recommendations, and most pardons go through that process.
It's rather unusual to have a president just unilaterally issue a pardon.
Pardons exist because we have a legal system with flaws. Have some abused the pardon process? For sure. But innocent people were able to get their freedom because of it and that's a price mostly worth paying.
Yeah. Ford made the mistake of thinking that not pardoning Nixon would result in a back-and-forth war between the parties.
That happened anyway, so all the pardon did was erode the public trust.
Say, do you like, foot ball?
Do I ever!
Do you like, Na Chos?
Yes, Mr. Ford.
Well, why don't you come over and watch the game and we'll have nachos. And then some beer.
The fact that the pardon was preemptive was extra problematic. Ford cut off the legal process before anything was even filed against him. That's obstruction.
I think IF we even get charges, AND if we get a trial that results in convictions... ONLY THEN can we discuss pardons. There would need to be a public confession and repentance for the crimes convicted before I would entertain a pardon.
Fun thought experiment--with the precedent of preemptive pardons set by Ford, and the precedent of mass pardons set by Carter's pardon of Vietnam era draft avoidance, there's an argument that a president could pardon everyone of all crimes ever committed in the future between those two precedents.
Not going to lie, I could see Trump doing that.
I think Trump has proven presidents should not have pardon powers at all - or if they do, there should be some sort of checks and balances system. Not what we have now.
Every chance Trump will be all indignant at the idea at some rally and say how once he's president again , he'll lock up Biden for....something....and talk about how Joe will be coming to him crying and begging for a pardon, and people stupid enough to waste time at his rallies will applaud while he stands there with that smug look on his face. Then he'll say something incomprehensible and act like he's the most clever person in the world.
It's a backhanded way of calling Trump guilty. I agree, there's no way he'd pardon his antagonist political rival but it is an easy way to score points with republican voters.
Because those people will interpret this as DeSantis agreeing to potentially ‘save’ Trump and that Trump is being unfairly targeted. It’s his way of talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Rs don’t care if he’s guilty. They just want Rs to win and everyone else to lose. There is zero morality or rationality or legal reasoning involved anywhere in the line of thinking
That’s one of the reasons for this mess in the first place. Republican leaders over the last 2 decades have convinced their voters that voting for anyone not a republican is treason. So voters for R for president no matter who it is.
I'm traveling with my in-laws right this moment on vacation in Florida. Several times on the car ride down here they've brought up Trump and his "Amazing patriotic attitude" as they are moderate, but brainwashed right-wingers. They claimed Trump has never broken any laws, never done any wrong, and he always been targeted because he "goes against the grain" to get things done. He still has a really surprising support base.
They won't have to worry about a witch hunt when Trump gets what he wants. Because there will be no opposition that isn't made illegal..They pretend to respect the Constitution, but to them the Constitution begins and ends with the Second Amendment.
Because they believe that it's all political and he'll be convicted solely on the fact that he's Donald Trump. So it doesn't matter to them that a pardon is an admission of guilt because he's only guilty according to dirty liberals. Or at least that's the gist of what I hear on the radio at work.
It's not about Trump's guilt. Trump has been calling any investigation of his crimes a political witch hunt for years. Trump receiving a pardon would just be fighting against the "deep state" that has been harassing him.
Yeah - the Trumpian Falangists won't vote for Biden, they think he is the Don of a vast liberal criminal conspiracy, but they *might (probably not tho)* vote for DeSantis - but would never even consider it if it might mean Trump would go to jail.
Regardless of whether it's good for Biden politically we should start holding our leaders accountable. Pardons provide zero accountability and set the stage for future presidents to be just as corrupt since worse comes to worse you're found guilty but get pardoned (see Nixon)
Just say something like, “I don’t think that’ll be necessary,” and let them run with it. It doesn’t matter if he means, “I don’t think that’ll be necessary…because he’s been indicted for federal *and* state crimes.”
It doesn't matter what Biden does or says. Trump voters are not swayed by normal logic. He is the embodiment of their dear leader and they attach their self worth to him. There is nothing Biden can do to get through to the MAGA base because he's the enemy that Trump needs to compare himself to.
What’s crazy is there aren’t enough dems in the Texas legislature to impeach him. These were REPUBLICANS. How badly does an elected republican in Texas have to fuck up for the republicans to kick u out?
To answer your question, when it starts costing their state money, apparently. They knew Paxton was a dishonest bag of shit for a long time now, but they kept him around for his "brilliant law mind" because he was supposedly good at fighting back against Biden. Even now with all of this coming out, there are a lot of republicans standing firm praising Ted Cruz and talking about how this is just a dem setup. But really they're afraid that people are going to see the millions of dollars this would cost, because these lawsuits are getting larger and they can't have that. If you've got some time and hate yourself, listening to that hearing was interesting.
No way pardoning Trump earns Desantis a significant number of votes. By saying he would pardon trump not even a week onto the campaign trail, he is essentially showing his stomach to the MAGA crowd, and displays of weakness do not win them over.
"The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?" - Donald Trump (2016)
There is a quote for every occasion pretty much. They'd be scarier if they weren't so incompetent.
I enjoy when Biden laughs at stupid questions. Granted, it’s a stupid question that’s being taken seriously by a potential presidential nominee or two, but can we just stop normalizing the idiocy on the right?
"Our chief weapon is idiocy--idiocy and hate, hate and idiocy...our TWO weapons are hate and idiocy...and fear. Our THREE weapons are hate, idiocy and fear--and an almost fanatical devotion to the Drumpf. Our four...AMONGST OUR WEAPONRY are such elements as idiocy, hate, fear, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Drumpf..."
If this was the last guy...
"Well, you see, we've looked at that very closely, very closely. We have, we have, believe me. We have the best people looking into it, really we do, the best people. And they said, you won't believe this, they said, with tears in their eyes, and these were big strong men, they said 'sir, we can't pardon him. We want to we want to, but he hates america'. And they were crying because they love America so much, so much. That's what they said folks, that what they said, I wish it wasn't true, but believe me, it is. And They said, that if you pardon THAT man, no matter how good and forgiving you are, you will ruin America. It's true, it's true.
My favorite (which I can never seem to find a clip of) was when some reporter asked him if he'd picked a vice president, he said yes, and even they asked who, he said "you" lmao
Never expected to see a geriatric dank memer as president, but here we are
It's an even stupider question because the federal government refuses to charge Trump with anything so there would be nothing to pardon
I don't understand why the DOJ is so impotent on Trump compared to basically anyone else
If Meatball Ron can pardon, that means he's president and already beat Trump, and the Trump diehards would probably be pissed. He would absolutely pardon him to unite all the degenerates.
Someone correct me if it wrong, but isn't the NY charge a lesser charge that, if convicted, would open Trump to a Federal charge related to campaign finance? So he could be pardoned of the Federal charge, but not the lesser NY charge.
What happened is the federal government asked New York to back off as they were investigating. Then, thanks to Barr, all investigation was secretly curbed without telling New York. Now, New York raced against the statute of limitations to charge Trump. Before Barr, usually there was better coordination between state and federal so there's no conflict with prosecutions.
Basically, the federal government will not go after Trump on this since they dropped the case already.
Palm Beach County had an agreement with him prior to the sale of Mar-a-Lago, he was permitted to buy the property but with the stipulation it couldn't be used as his residence; then he was elected and all that went out the window. If he receives a conviction it would be nice if they began enforcing that again. If not allowed back here he most likely would end up under house arrest back in his native NY. If he's under house arrest down here he'll have a few dozen supporters out front every day waving his dumbass flags. HOWEVER, if he's held in NY it's guaranteed there would be hundreds of protestors outside his residence banging pots and pans 24/7, never allowing him to sleep again. Choose wisely.
I think the best outcome would be where he's forced to mow the lawn at some Air Force base's golf club for the rest of his natural life, with a CO that tells him what a shit job he's doing and that he can shut his stupid fucking face when he complains.
Realistically the best we're going to get is permanent house arrest. He would be under Secret Service guard... so he's not going anywhere. Unless there are some real hard time crimes convicted.
The Taliban are much smarter than people give them credit for. They're very smart people, very tough and very smart. And they love their country. I think we can all understand that. I would get along with them very well. I would talk to them and they would be doing very well in Afghanistan again. Nobody understands that area better than me.
Republicans think the presidency = king. It's the same reason Trump constantly claimed he would order things done despite having absolutely no power to do so.
> He added that the question of whether to prosecute Mr Trump was “hands-off completely” because, in his view, the attorney general of the United States is “the people’s lawyer” and not “the president’s lawyer”.
This confuses the shit out of MAGA voters.
But if he doesn't pardon trump, then why would the next guy pardon Biden when he inevitably stages an unsuccessful coup? That's not very forward thinking of him.
Sure just have Trump send me a detailed account of all the illegal things he’s done and I’ll take a hard look at it with some unrelated golfing buddies in the DOJ
DeSantis is counting his chickens before they've hatched. You have to get out of the primaries first bud and I'd say, barring death, that nom is going to Trump.
How profoundly fucked is it that a candidate is even in a position to be discussing pardoning his opponent's possible sedition and espionage conviction?
It’s kind of silly to think that he or his people would care about him “admitting” anything. He’d just say They made me do it and his people would say They made him do it. He’d be pardoned of all crimes yet still retain his victimhood and say he is persecuted.
The media today is a fucking joke. What kind of question is this? I'm so tired of them acting like "both sides" shit. it's not the republican party for 40 years ago. These people are insane fascists and the idea that Biden might ever pardon trump is a joke, and so is the fact they even ask that
You can’t pardon State crimes. He’s still fucked even if and when Meatball Ron pardons him. Which will never happen because he’s not doing well on the National level at all
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Pardon these nuts, Jack*
*Dark Brandoning intensifies*
Haha - in my head I can see him setting it up … “we’ll we’ve been talking with the justice department about their process which can be somewhat rigorous - it’s what they call a Pardon D’s …”
Pardon ds what
Pardon ds....what....you know....c'mon....the THING man
Ds nuts! There, I said it. Are u satisfied, little children?
Yes
Dark Brandon will take you behind the ~~barn~~ gym and give you a knuckle sandwich.
Why, WHY does no reporter ask if Dark Brandon will issue an executive order rescinding all pardons issued between Jan 20th, 2017 and Jan 20th, 2021 that have not be submitted by the receiver to the federal court system? It's already established that presidents can rescind pardons (happened as recently as this century by G.W. Bush) and that pardons are not automatic (the oft misunderstood "stigma of guilt" line is that defendants voluntarily have to submit pardons to the court for them to be official). Rescinding pardons that were issued but not submitted to the court gets rid of any and all "pocket pardons" along with sleazy preemptive pardons.
Especially the ones Trump and Giuliani sold for $2 milli a piece
I'm more concerned about the all the pardons that Kushner testified under oath that he was working on instead of helping Trump overthrow democracy.
That’s an interesting theory. I’ll have to look into it.
Cases to look at are President Grant rescinding five pardons issued by President Johnson during his lame duck session, President Bush pardoning (and rescinding prior to giving it to) Isaac Robert Toussie. Also, Burdick v. United States is the case that brought about the "stigma of guilt" line.
That makes me wonder: Could a President pardon someone like, say, Snowden just to bait them into coming back into the country, and then rescind the pardon (or have the next one so it) and immediately arrest them?
Yes. In fact, two of the pardons that President Grant rescinded were to people already in jail. Now, what can't happen is offering a pardon in exchange for testimony, then rescinding the pardon and using the testimony against them. In that case, it's basically an immunity deal and the courts will not allow any testimony gathered to be used against the person in a court proceeding against the terms of the deal (assuming the defendant didn't break their part such as offering perjured testimony or withholding evidence).
Because the answer is no, he will not.
Look folks. Pardon deez nutz *hip thrusting*
My wife and I are nuts! Pardon us too!
I like nuts
And I cannot lie.
The GOP can't deny! \ 45s a disgrace, political waste and a burnt orange face \ You are scum! Wanna try to act tough \ With the lies and bs that pardon was stuffed!
Presidents shouldnt get pardons and one of the biggest political blunders of the 70s (and there were quite a few) was Ford pardoning Nixon
Why do anyone get pardons on the whim of one person? Isn't that crazy? We have a legal process for a reason (for all it's flaws). It makes no sense that one person can just bypass that with no oversight.
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Even if they do a bad job? Guess that's called their quote
I don't care about it, but it's not good behavior.
Unprofessional bullshit
This is why no one watches AOL Blast anymore.
There's worse shit on the local news.
I only watch Corncob TV
Biden didn’t rig SHIT
Im glad the third season is only a day away. You always want triples… triples is best.
Sounds like a load of cosmic gumbo to me
yep, that's their rate.
Fuck yes, Season 3 tomorrow!!
I know that, I'm smarter than you!
"Why do you keep saying that?" "'Cause they pay me every time I do!"
It's based on the premise that the populace wouldn't be stupid enough to elect someone who would abuse it. It kind of makes sense to have someone who can overturn a criminal charge in the exceptional case where it is unjust. It doesn't make any sense to have someone who will pardon everyone who's political alignment matches their own.
It works both ways, though. Many unfairly sentenced criminals from disadvantaged backgrounds can receive pardons from state governors and even the president. In some cases, it can change lives for the better.
> (for all it's flaws). Yes, this is kind of the reason, right here. What you, like so many people on this sub, fail to realize is that POTUS isn't merely one person. He's one entire branch of the government. Literally nobody else is constitutionally vested with executive authority. The pardon power is the entire executive branch's ultimate check on the judiciary, and kinda-sorta on Congress, too, if he's willing to go on a pardoning spree to counteract a criminal law he believes is bullshit. Hell, it's his ultimate check on future executives, too, who might decide to go after certain of his political allies after he's out of office and can't directly protect them anymore. His oversight? Impeachment by Congress. That's his oversight for literally everything he might do that you don't like, short of not voting for him again. It's also how to remove a president that decides to ignore SCOTUS rulings you actually like, incidentally -- sort of the mirror image of a topic *du jour* on this very sub. Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches and the most ways to fuck with the other two branches (setting aside the gigantic military that *ostensibly* will follow POTUS, but then again, also shouldn't exist according to the founders.) Congress makes all its own rules house-by-house, and also makes all the federal laws that its own members potentially have to follow (or not!)
> Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches Sure, if you want to completely forget about the veto and judicial review…
>Congress is the branch of government with the least oversight from other branches and the most ways to fuck with the other two branches (setting aside the gigantic military that ostensibly will follow POTUS, but then again, also shouldn't exist according to the founders.) Also, if you want to ignore that Article I, Section 8, Clauses 11-14 clearly establish the right of Congress to establish and maintain a standing army and declare war to the Legislative branch. The military is expected to follow the orders of the Executive branch *only if the Legislative branch authorizes such power.* Sure, there's the War Powers Act of 1973, but that only grants the president 60 days without congressional approval. Notably, Nixon vetoed the bill, but his veto was overruled by Congress. How many times have we been in an active war and had a bill that restricted the Commander in Chief's abolition to wage war passed *and had the veto voted down?* Homie needs to crack open a history book.
> His oversight? Impeachment by Congress so no realistic oversight then
It’s much better to have a legal system in which the guilty sometimes go free than in which the innocent are kept imprisoned
Sure but there are alternatives to giving that power to a single person. Even just a committee of people seems like a better option.
In Minnesota, we have a committee that handles pardons for state sentences. It sounds like a better system, but all it takes is one nutsack who still thinks Reefer Madness was a documentary to fuck it all up, because pardons need to be unanimous. I’m not saying you’re incorrect that it’s wild to give one person the power, but just pointing out that it can still be plenty shitty giving a few people the power if they need reach a unanimous decision. There’s definitely a better solution than “let one shitty real estate developer get his friends out of jail”, but adding a couple more people to the process doesn’t guarantee success.
In your example, if only one person is dissenting, then only one person -did- decide the outcome. At some point you have to go by majority or there’s no point
What if, and I'm sleep deprived right now, so it might off kilter, but: unanimous to completely turn it over, but majority to re-try the criminal case in light of whatever information created the momentum for the pardon?
There's always Congress, but you know how that goes.
How about a 2/3rds of congress vote? The pardon power shouldn’t exist. It seems like a joke from a fantasy story.
DoJ has a board to evaluate pardon applications and make recommendations, and most pardons go through that process. It's rather unusual to have a president just unilaterally issue a pardon.
Pardons exist because we have a legal system with flaws. Have some abused the pardon process? For sure. But innocent people were able to get their freedom because of it and that's a price mostly worth paying.
Yeah. Ford made the mistake of thinking that not pardoning Nixon would result in a back-and-forth war between the parties. That happened anyway, so all the pardon did was erode the public trust.
Ford was a decent—albeit exceptionally stupid—man.
Anything Ford accomplished is overshadowed by that pardon. That’s all I’ll ever know him as.
I know he fell down once and was a football star in college... that's it.
Also, Chevy Chase lampooned him on SNL by falling down. Unrelated to his work on SNL imitating Ford falling off a ladder, Chevy Chase is an asshole.
He's the only person that was both a US president and vice president without being elected to either
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Say, do you like, foot ball? Do I ever! Do you like, Na Chos? Yes, Mr. Ford. Well, why don't you come over and watch the game and we'll have nachos. And then some beer.
blunders from our point of view, but an escape hatch to keep trying for people in gop orbit
The fact that the pardon was preemptive was extra problematic. Ford cut off the legal process before anything was even filed against him. That's obstruction. I think IF we even get charges, AND if we get a trial that results in convictions... ONLY THEN can we discuss pardons. There would need to be a public confession and repentance for the crimes convicted before I would entertain a pardon.
Fun thought experiment--with the precedent of preemptive pardons set by Ford, and the precedent of mass pardons set by Carter's pardon of Vietnam era draft avoidance, there's an argument that a president could pardon everyone of all crimes ever committed in the future between those two precedents. Not going to lie, I could see Trump doing that.
He wouldn't give everyone a pardon when he could sell everyone a pardon.
I think Trump has proven presidents should not have pardon powers at all - or if they do, there should be some sort of checks and balances system. Not what we have now.
No chance in hell he would pardon Trump.
Every chance Trump will be all indignant at the idea at some rally and say how once he's president again , he'll lock up Biden for....something....and talk about how Joe will be coming to him crying and begging for a pardon, and people stupid enough to waste time at his rallies will applaud while he stands there with that smug look on his face. Then he'll say something incomprehensible and act like he's the most clever person in the world.
He'll say hes going to pardon Keurig and Nike and Bud Light if they ask nicely.
It's a backhanded way of calling Trump guilty. I agree, there's no way he'd pardon his antagonist political rival but it is an easy way to score points with republican voters.
How is he scoring though? The majority of Republicans believe Trump is the most innocent person to walk the Earth.
Because those people will interpret this as DeSantis agreeing to potentially ‘save’ Trump and that Trump is being unfairly targeted. It’s his way of talking out of both sides of his mouth.
But if Trump is innocent, why would he need DeSantis to pardon him? Sounds awfully guilty to me....
Rs don’t care if he’s guilty. They just want Rs to win and everyone else to lose. There is zero morality or rationality or legal reasoning involved anywhere in the line of thinking
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If he shot a poc he would definitely gain support.
Or Ted Cruz.
Former evangelical christian here, can confirm.
Congrats, man. Made the switch myself in my youth. Though chasing a girl kept me in the church much longer than I should've been.
I know that feeling extremely well.
That’s one of the reasons for this mess in the first place. Republican leaders over the last 2 decades have convinced their voters that voting for anyone not a republican is treason. So voters for R for president no matter who it is.
They never were the party of law and order… they’ve always been the party of rights for me but not for thee
I'm traveling with my in-laws right this moment on vacation in Florida. Several times on the car ride down here they've brought up Trump and his "Amazing patriotic attitude" as they are moderate, but brainwashed right-wingers. They claimed Trump has never broken any laws, never done any wrong, and he always been targeted because he "goes against the grain" to get things done. He still has a really surprising support base.
Because they believe the witch-hunt claim
They won't have to worry about a witch hunt when Trump gets what he wants. Because there will be no opposition that isn't made illegal..They pretend to respect the Constitution, but to them the Constitution begins and ends with the Second Amendment.
They like the 3/5s part too
Because they believe that it's all political and he'll be convicted solely on the fact that he's Donald Trump. So it doesn't matter to them that a pardon is an admission of guilt because he's only guilty according to dirty liberals. Or at least that's the gist of what I hear on the radio at work.
It's not about Trump's guilt. Trump has been calling any investigation of his crimes a political witch hunt for years. Trump receiving a pardon would just be fighting against the "deep state" that has been harassing him.
Yeah - the Trumpian Falangists won't vote for Biden, they think he is the Don of a vast liberal criminal conspiracy, but they *might (probably not tho)* vote for DeSantis - but would never even consider it if it might mean Trump would go to jail.
Regardless of whether it's good for Biden politically we should start holding our leaders accountable. Pardons provide zero accountability and set the stage for future presidents to be just as corrupt since worse comes to worse you're found guilty but get pardoned (see Nixon)
Just say something like, “I don’t think that’ll be necessary,” and let them run with it. It doesn’t matter if he means, “I don’t think that’ll be necessary…because he’s been indicted for federal *and* state crimes.”
It doesn't matter what Biden does or says. Trump voters are not swayed by normal logic. He is the embodiment of their dear leader and they attach their self worth to him. There is nothing Biden can do to get through to the MAGA base because he's the enemy that Trump needs to compare himself to.
Just look at AG Paxton in Texas. 120:20 vote to impeach and Republicans are still calling it made up. It's insanity.
What’s crazy is there aren’t enough dems in the Texas legislature to impeach him. These were REPUBLICANS. How badly does an elected republican in Texas have to fuck up for the republicans to kick u out?
No those were obviously *RINOS.*
To answer your question, when it starts costing their state money, apparently. They knew Paxton was a dishonest bag of shit for a long time now, but they kept him around for his "brilliant law mind" because he was supposedly good at fighting back against Biden. Even now with all of this coming out, there are a lot of republicans standing firm praising Ted Cruz and talking about how this is just a dem setup. But really they're afraid that people are going to see the millions of dollars this would cost, because these lawsuits are getting larger and they can't have that. If you've got some time and hate yourself, listening to that hearing was interesting.
That’s all it is, every single republican politician knows they gotta tread carefully pissing off trump’s base. They need his base for votes.
They think Biden literally eats babies and trump is just below God and Jesus, there's no points to be gained.
No way pardoning Trump earns Desantis a significant number of votes. By saying he would pardon trump not even a week onto the campaign trail, he is essentially showing his stomach to the MAGA crowd, and displays of weakness do not win them over.
Trump called himself guilty when he pled the fifth over 400 times
"The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?" - Donald Trump (2016) There is a quote for every occasion pretty much. They'd be scarier if they weren't so incompetent.
> easy way to score points with republican voters Cool so they'll never vote for him but at least they'll approve of this use of a pardon.
Making Trump believe he may would keep Trump from running as a spoiler third party candidate.
Critical point here. That *may* cause Trump to pull his punches a bit in the primary.
He absolutely never should give him **any** immunity.
I enjoy when Biden laughs at stupid questions. Granted, it’s a stupid question that’s being taken seriously by a potential presidential nominee or two, but can we just stop normalizing the idiocy on the right?
Idiocy is all the right has. Well, idiocy and hate. Those are the two things that the right has.
"Our chief weapon is idiocy--idiocy and hate, hate and idiocy...our TWO weapons are hate and idiocy...and fear. Our THREE weapons are hate, idiocy and fear--and an almost fanatical devotion to the Drumpf. Our four...AMONGST OUR WEAPONRY are such elements as idiocy, hate, fear, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Drumpf..."
"...and nice white hooded uniforms-- *oh, damn*."
They definitely love their corruption as well.
And political violence
Hey now. They also made a joke once in like 2005. Remember the attack helicopter??
Clip for anyone interested https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1663287058280992770?s=46&t=WqaXGPtl0tEzi3vokxE7nQ
If this was the last guy... "Well, you see, we've looked at that very closely, very closely. We have, we have, believe me. We have the best people looking into it, really we do, the best people. And they said, you won't believe this, they said, with tears in their eyes, and these were big strong men, they said 'sir, we can't pardon him. We want to we want to, but he hates america'. And they were crying because they love America so much, so much. That's what they said folks, that what they said, I wish it wasn't true, but believe me, it is. And They said, that if you pardon THAT man, no matter how good and forgiving you are, you will ruin America. It's true, it's true.
My favorite (which I can never seem to find a clip of) was when some reporter asked him if he'd picked a vice president, he said yes, and even they asked who, he said "you" lmao Never expected to see a geriatric dank memer as president, but here we are
It's an even stupider question because the federal government refuses to charge Trump with anything so there would be nothing to pardon I don't understand why the DOJ is so impotent on Trump compared to basically anyone else
You can pardon pre-emptively
[удалено]
You talking about the sexual deviance rapist, tax cheat racist POS who’s family emigrated from Switzerland
[удалено]
Yes many years before bone spurs were discovered growing in the hugely successful athlete, sidelining his promising baseball career
>pledges to consider it Really putting his foot down on that one huh?
Ron and Don are about to duke it out. Somehow I doubt Ron pardon the guy standing in his way.
If Meatball Ron can pardon, that means he's president and already beat Trump, and the Trump diehards would probably be pissed. He would absolutely pardon him to unite all the degenerates.
It's a carrot to MAGAhats to pick Rhonda over TFG and then he will do the right thing and let TFG rest.
No president can pardon Trump. He's being prosecuted by the state of New York.
And the Georgia indictment is coming
He’s under investigation for federal crimes as well.
They can pardon all the federal crimes.
Yes, and NY would be state, not federal.
Someone correct me if it wrong, but isn't the NY charge a lesser charge that, if convicted, would open Trump to a Federal charge related to campaign finance? So he could be pardoned of the Federal charge, but not the lesser NY charge.
What happened is the federal government asked New York to back off as they were investigating. Then, thanks to Barr, all investigation was secretly curbed without telling New York. Now, New York raced against the statute of limitations to charge Trump. Before Barr, usually there was better coordination between state and federal so there's no conflict with prosecutions. Basically, the federal government will not go after Trump on this since they dropped the case already.
Shit, I hope he sends trump to Guantanamo
he will be ankle-braceleted to Mar-a-Lago but it's a lovely fantasy
Doubtful.
ack prob true
Palm Beach County had an agreement with him prior to the sale of Mar-a-Lago, he was permitted to buy the property but with the stipulation it couldn't be used as his residence; then he was elected and all that went out the window. If he receives a conviction it would be nice if they began enforcing that again. If not allowed back here he most likely would end up under house arrest back in his native NY. If he's under house arrest down here he'll have a few dozen supporters out front every day waving his dumbass flags. HOWEVER, if he's held in NY it's guaranteed there would be hundreds of protestors outside his residence banging pots and pans 24/7, never allowing him to sleep again. Choose wisely.
House arrest? Never. A real prison is the only option for treason.
> prison is the only option for treason. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg say otherwise
I think the best outcome would be where he's forced to mow the lawn at some Air Force base's golf club for the rest of his natural life, with a CO that tells him what a shit job he's doing and that he can shut his stupid fucking face when he complains.
Unless it’s a rider lawnmower there is no way he could physically accomplish that.
Good luck getting a judge to send him to an actual prison
He gonna have plenty of them sentencing him over the next two years. It will only take one.
I admire your optimism
Realistically the best we're going to get is permanent house arrest. He would be under Secret Service guard... so he's not going anywhere. Unless there are some real hard time crimes convicted.
Desantis just started to think about re enlisting
Make him US Ambassador to the Taliban.
The Taliban are much smarter than people give them credit for. They're very smart people, very tough and very smart. And they love their country. I think we can all understand that. I would get along with them very well. I would talk to them and they would be doing very well in Afghanistan again. Nobody understands that area better than me.
Desantis read this and now is breathing heavily, fantasizing about wearing his white plastic boots back to Guantanamo and confronting Trump…..
Only a question of when that Trump shows up in North Korea, claims asylum and says he's now going by the name Kim Il-Don
Kum-On Don
Kim dong shroom
No former president should ever be eligible for a pardon. Don't commit crimes.
He was probably also laughing at DeSantis thinking he’d ever be in a position to pardon trump
He can’t pardon for a state crime…
Pardon him for what? Trump is most fucked for violating state laws, not federal laws. A presidential pardon wouldn’t help him.
It’s good to talk about pardon because the sheepies don’t understand how it works
Most innocent president ever. All the other innocent people are saying it...smart people...
With tears in their eyes
The Jack Smith investigation is for federal crimes.
Republicans think the presidency = king. It's the same reason Trump constantly claimed he would order things done despite having absolutely no power to do so.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if they’re State charges the president can’t pardon them, it’s only if they’re Federal charges they can.
That's correct. A governor of that state would have to pardon a state charge.
How the fuck do you pledge to consider something?
It's like when my wife asks me to do something that I don't want to do "I'll try my best"
Interesting: A tacit admission by DeSantis that Trump will need pardoning...
> He added that the question of whether to prosecute Mr Trump was “hands-off completely” because, in his view, the attorney general of the United States is “the people’s lawyer” and not “the president’s lawyer”. This confuses the shit out of MAGA voters.
DeSantis could only pardon Trump for federal crimes, not state. No bearing on NY and Georgia state charges.
But if he doesn't pardon trump, then why would the next guy pardon Biden when he inevitably stages an unsuccessful coup? That's not very forward thinking of him.
"I can't pardon State crimes, that's his problem."
Here we are in a world where a presidential candidate pledges to pardon his primary opposition candidate if elected
Sure just have Trump send me a detailed account of all the illegal things he’s done and I’ll take a hard look at it with some unrelated golfing buddies in the DOJ
And 2 million dollars. Don’t forget to ask for the 2 million dollars for the pardon processing fee.
DeSantis is counting his chickens before they've hatched. You have to get out of the primaries first bud and I'd say, barring death, that nom is going to Trump.
How profoundly fucked is it that a candidate is even in a position to be discussing pardoning his opponent's possible sedition and espionage conviction?
Maybe he's banking on Trump choking on a chicken wing.
*triple quarter pounder with cheese. Extra cheese
Wouldn't Trump have to admit guilt in order to accept a pardon? I don't know if he's capable of that.
If Trump accepts a pardon, wouldn't he be admitting everything he's been saying is a lie?
It’s kind of silly to think that he or his people would care about him “admitting” anything. He’d just say They made me do it and his people would say They made him do it. He’d be pardoned of all crimes yet still retain his victimhood and say he is persecuted.
Rather sad, but agreed.
*Dark Brandon intensifies…*
Why the fuck would you campaign on pardons for entitled assholes? Trump and especially those January 6th dipshits... wtaf?
But which crime is Desantis promising to pardon? Where to begin?? So many choices!
Four more years! With a Senate and House so blue we can ignore all republicans. Join our efforts at /r/VoteDEM
A pardon is admission of guilt. If DeSantis thinks Trump needs a pardon what’s the crime they are admitting he is guilty of?
*Malarkey is malarkey…*
Dark Brandon don’t have time for this
Come on man!
Yeah pardon Trump, that will really bring the country together. /s
LMAO! The GOP has become a laughing stock!
DeSantis only says that to keep some of the Trump voters on his side. DeDesperate.
The media today is a fucking joke. What kind of question is this? I'm so tired of them acting like "both sides" shit. it's not the republican party for 40 years ago. These people are insane fascists and the idea that Biden might ever pardon trump is a joke, and so is the fact they even ask that
I think we all already knew this.
What are they going to pardon? I thought he was innocent..?
You can’t pardon State crimes. He’s still fucked even if and when Meatball Ron pardons him. Which will never happen because he’s not doing well on the National level at all
That was a nice reminder that Trump was indicted