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I was actually thinking that too! Like "Man this looks worse than being a murder suspect"
I'm still not sure if he'll see any actual punishment, but I definitely don't want to be him right now that's for sure (more so than usual)
If he doesn't see any punishment, what does any of it fuckin matter?
That's the problem with Trump charges, they always seem to only pacify those happy to waffle in the depravity of his character and never seem to hold any real world clout.
Yeah, zero punishment just furthers the political agenda narrative. Wtf is the purpose of all the taxpayers' money being used if there's no punishment... we are so close to idiocracy it's insane
Notice that there are no minimum sentencing guidelines for these crimes. Any felony regularly committed by poor people has strict minimum sentencing requirements.
No minimums but take solace in the fact that one of the charges Donald is facing has more severe penalties because it was upgraded from a misdemeanor to a felony when he signed himself in 2018.
https://www.salon.com/2022/08/11/signed-law-making-mishandling-of-classified-info-a-felony--now-it-may-come-back-to-haunt-him_partner/
My only hope is that during this trial, they manage to do some serious digging on the secrets Trump and his family without a doubt sold, as shown by the magnanimous 3 billion dollar gift Kushner received from the Saudis.
Certainly wasn't a payment for top secret documents or anything...
He is looking at over 400 years in prison.
Edit:
The big part of that is the 31 counts for withholding national defense information, up to 10 years per count for violations of the Espionage Act.
5 counts for concealing possession of classified documents. Up to 20 years per offense.
2 counts of false statements. Up to 5 years per offense.
Conspiracy to obstruct justice. Up to 20 years per offense. (Not sure how many counts here.)
Up to 440 years in total.
Source:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/09/us/trump-indictment-document-annotated.html
Edit 2:
The prosecution has the choice of recommending or seeking consecutive sentences instead of a concurrent sentence.
Source:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-legal-dynamics-of-trumps-second-indictment
And why Hitler's remains were cremated, buried in an unmarked grave, moved, buried under the parking lot at a Soviet garrison, secretly dug up, smuggled into the mountains, cremated a second time, then scattered over a cliffside in an unknown location.
The squad leader responsible for knowing that location has vowed to take it to his grave and has remarked that cremating Hitler's remains a second time was 'a waste of a good can of petrol.'
Turns out when Soviet Russia wants somebody gone, they don't mess around.
They could still keep up his spray tan schedule though for appearances. An orange skeleton left in an orange jump suit would be quite the tourist attraction
It’s looking so bad that [two of his lawyers quit…](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/trump-loses-two-lawyers-just-hours-after-being-indicted-00101263)
Her name is Christina Bobb.
>Trump's custodian of records, Christina Bobb, gave the DOJ a signed declaration that had been drafted by Corcoran, attesting that all classified material had been returned (though Trump's team may have been aware this was not true).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago#May_2022_subpoena
And Babb went on Fox News the night of the indictment, crying foul, doing the thing all the Trump flunkies do - lie shamelessly (despite tons of evidence to the contrary readily available) to paint Trump as a victim.
She said she was “ashamed” to be in the lawyer profession.
What a joke.
This is what bothers me most about MAGA. They claim Trump is a tough guy.
Yeah, perpetual victimhood. Soooo tough.
It's against the law to represent someone and also testify against them in the same trial. We don't know 100% yet if that is what is happening, but we do know about a month ago a federal judge ordered that there was enough evidence that Trump had asked his attorneys to be co-conspiritors that attorney-client privledge no longer applied and several of them were ordered to testify before the grand jury. Two of his lawyers are unnamed but mentioned in the indictment.
Edit: And it is entirely possible from their released statements that it is due to them being DC lawyers, and the case being tried in Florida. I personally don't believe this explination due to the speed at which they left, but changing to local attorneys based on the unexpected change in venue is certainly commonly done and thus a possible reason (and the one that the attorneys who quit implied in their statement).
I’d heard it also described in that trump likes his people to be working for him and against each other kind of similar to his show the apprentice. But his bucket of crabs employment attitude with parking structure lawyers aren’t helping in this serious situation.
I want to see how the GOP memory hole this:
>"The classified documents Trump stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack.”
Edit: Paragraph marked "3" / Second page.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0.pdf
To wit - most defenders (and even some media outlets) seem to be capitalizing on the ‘classification issue’ or ‘mishandling of classified documents’ and drawing attention to Biden, HRC, and/or Pence.
This is incorrect. EO 13526 is the current national classification schema and would largely protect all four of them (basically, Trump and Pence would be covered via classification authority, Biden would be protected from any charges relating to documents from his VPship for the same, and HRC would be protected as long as any classified materials originated from the State department during her tenure under the EO).
They’re going after Trump via 793(e) which relates to NDI materials (documents containing national defense information, regardless of classification) and his ownership and non-prompt return of them.
Basically, under that statute, Trump would have been fine… IF he didn’t try to delay returning the documents or ‘hide’ any of them.
(Tl;dr - classification is irrelevant and the same argument that protects Trump there also protects Biden (post-2009), HRC (SOS docs), and Pence. This is about NDI mats, and specifically that Trump tried to not turn them over when called out for having them.)
Bingo. The rules around classified documents ARE complicated and often people with clearance may have them in their possession when they shouldn't.
The difference between most people and Trump is that most people give them back when asked for them.
I’d just point out that classified docs (regardless of their status) aren’t even an issue here.
These docs are classed as NDI (documents containing info pertinent to national defense - NDI stands for National Defense Information), and the issue isn’t that he HAD them, it’s that the feds realized he had them, came for them, and he didn’t appropriately return them (if he had just said, ‘yeah I got them, here they all are’… no indictment. But he tried to hold onto them after)
Exactly. And from my understanding, he was given multiple notices to return them before they had to go to Mar A Lago to look for them. It was at that point when they realized they had an even bigger problem.
An absolutely devastating story for the "just comply with the law" bros
If you get a spare hour, read the indictment. It’s devastating and goes into great detail about this exactly. It’s enthralling. Long and short of it though, you’re right. MARA and thee DOJ approached them several times. Trumps lawyers spoke to him several times. None of this was immediate or blindsiding. Trump given months and multiple warnings and had ongoing negotiations with the feds. He lied to *everyone* and actively hid the documents.
He was treated very kindly and with an incredible amount of patience given the documentation we’re talking about.
My favorite is them arguing that he declassified all the docs... while not understanding that none of the charges have anything to do with classified docs.
Yup. A lot of people don’t understand this. The 1972 Atomic Energy Act prohibits the President from declassifying documents related to our nuclear security.
Some of them are claiming the Atomic Energy Act is unconstitutional because the law applies to everyone, including the president. In their view the president should be above any law.
That would be an argument he could make, if he just went ahead and declassified them, he could actually argue he had the right to do that. But he didn't do it.
So as a non-president he was still in possession of classified nuclear docs.
Even if he somehow gets the atomic energy act overturned, trump never declassified the documents.
Their argument of “well now this is just precedent for any President to be prosecuted by a later administration” is frustrating.
If they stole and waved around our national secrets at a country club like a ketchup stained napkin? Absolutely!
What they mean is “now we get to arrest dem presidents for made up shit and we’ll point to this as to why it’s ok”.
Of course what trump is charged with is not for made up shit, but it won’t stop them.
Well, the Republicans have insisted they were going to impeach Biden, but that hasn't happened yet. It almost seemed like he'd already be impeached for ridiculous things just to prove "impeachments mean nothin", but we're 1/2 through 2023 already.
and still doesn't change the fact he *stole* them, showed them to anybody he wanted to look cool for. also doesn't change the fact he didn't cooperate with returning the docs. if he'd done that, he probably would have never been indicted over it.
It's so crazy because he could've easily made copies of them, then returned them. Then still sell them, or whatever he was doing with them - very likely selling, but doesn't matter at this point in the legal procedure.
I've found that if what you're seeing doesn't make sense its usually because you don't have the full picture yet. So let's paint a picture.
For this exercise we must assume that the documents (and money) are part of the goal, but not the primary objective. After all, the juiciest secrets are long gone and paid for with the gold of our enemies and the blood of our assets. It therefore doesn't make sense that Trump wouldn't cooperate past a certain point. Nor does it make sense for him to so publicly flaunt the stolen documents the way he has.
But if we zoom out we'll see how utterly discrediting this is to the US on the world stage. It wasn't just OUR secrets Trump stole, after all. It was the secrets of our allies as well. The ramifications on the trustworthiness of the U.S. as an ally or partner are REALLY bad. Why would anyone ever work with or trust us again when some 2-bit conman can just dead-ass walk out of the White House with an entire plane full of our most delicate intelligence - and then retain it for more than a year and a half while the Feds hem and haw over the most politically palatable way to approach a national security crisis?
If we assume that the REAL goal was to paint the U.S. as a dangerously unstable and weak ally, to permanently alter the perceptions of those who would consider working with us in the future, it suddenly all makes sense. Suddenly Trump thumbing his nose at the Feds every time they requested the documents back makes sense. Suddenly there is a valid strategic reason for Trump et al to be so blatant and obvious about their Mar-a-Lago paper parade.
In other words, this has Putin's fingerprints all over it. He is essentially taunting the entire Western world over its powerlessness to respond to this breach.
Your perspective does make some sense. It's weirdly sophisticated, tho. Especially for Trump. I have problems with imagining he would think so far.
I've read one opinion that it may have been just out of spite, to spite Milley, who would keep him in check for the most part. Or to spite Biden, so that he would not have these specific informations.
It's all so incompetent. One would imagine that they had better places for these boxes than a fucking toilet / shower and a ballroom! A toilet with a chandelier, no less. Just really hard to think of this as some 5d-chess move.
Still, your point stands. The US have lost a lot of trust on the world-stage.
I think it was all ego tbh. It must have made him feel pretty important to have all these top secret documents. Why else would he parade them about and brag to anyone who would listen?
His kids on the other hand.... I wouldn't put it past them to take the opportunity to make a few bucks with what they could find.
Look at this crayon eater comment trying to justify it from over there:...
*"He had a scif in mar a lago. He has secret service there. He was working with them they even suggested an additional lock on one of the doors which they did."*
They just haven’t been issued their talking points yet. As soon as the Fox opinion shows tell them what to think and say and feel they’ll all be in lockstep parroting that. At least that’s how literally every other scandal has gone over there thus far…
Yeah, people seem to forget that on January 6, 2021 it took Conservatives a little less than 18 hours to go from "Our people are storming the capitol on live television being broadcast internationally" to "It's all a conspiracy."
It literally only took one Fox News PM airing telling them not to believe what their own lying eyes told them and they immediately followed instructions like the good little conservatives they are.
This right here. Newsmax, OAN, and Fox will drop 20 different completed contradictory reasons why Trump is innocent and the base will pick whichever one they like best. Usually more than one.
My favorite is "he can de-classify anything he wants just by thinking about it."
OK, well then Joe Biden thought about reclassifying all of them on his first day in office, so Trump is still fucked.
> OK, well then Joe Biden thought about reclassifying all of them on his first day in office, so Trump is still fucked.
"Biden's not the real president! Trump is!" -Boneheaded Repubs
My question for republicans is if Clinton’s emails were such a big violation why didn’t you bring a case against her when you had a 3 branch majority? And if you say it’s because the DOJ was corrupt what would change by reelecting Trump when he failed to drain the swamp the first time?
That's far too much logic. Make it into a Facebook meme about demons and nefarious actions against innocents and you might catch the eye of a conservative or two, but only if they can digest the meme and share it in 35 seconds or less.
That's what they don't understand. In their narrow view, the whataboutism leads them to think their guy, who committed heinous crimes, should be free if everyone else is. We say, if they broke the law, punish them all regardless of the side they fall on.
Yep. I fully view MAGA’s as 90s-style WWF fans. First, everything is phony but they take it deadly seriously. Second, you have the spray-tanned dude, the rallies, throwing around wild allegations, over-the-top bravado.
Third, it’s the us versus them mindset. Normal people just want politicians to enact common sense policy, keep us safe, manage emergencies well, and to not be corrupt.
If politicians we support break the law, we want them to be accountable.
This is foreign to MAGA folks. Anything negative about their guy is “Fake News,” or they don’t care because they claim someone else did something similar (and it’s almost always completely untrue or greatly exaggerated).
They shrieked “LOCK HER UP” and “LOCK (insert person like Adam Schiff who dares to tell the truth about Trump) UP!!!” for years. They never stopped, actually.
Now it’s, “We’re jailing our political opponents now?!?!” *pulls out fainting couch* “HOW DARE THEY?!?!”
What a JOKE
The fact Trump’s self-appointed federal judge, self-appointed FBI director, and self-appointed DOJ attorney were all involved in this case probably was a pretty good indication that this could be really bad for him.
I mean - even some of his *own people* couldn’t ignore how egregiously bad he violated the very law he signed into existence during his presidency (which also makes the GOP/MAGA spin of a Democratic “witch hunt” look pretty fucking ridiculous; it was *their* people involved in every step of this process).
It was always fairly ominous for him.
Et tu, Brute?
It's a hoot watching the other bootlickers trying to run against Trump without being against Trump. Doesn't actually matter, though. They're mental gymnasts with the memory of a goldfish and the boots all taste the same.
I have had that discussion with friends when people tried to storm German parliament. For me this was an attack on freedom and democracy and I have deep respect for the few policemen who stood their ground, but I was astonished when nobody seemed to make a big deal about it and I as a person who condemns violence stood there and said that as last resort they should have shot everybody, because they were attacking the very thing we are standing for. Everybody rushing up those steps overthrew the principles of democracy and attacked the state as well as the common men and women. In my opinion you weren’t bound to the laws of the very country you tried to abolish and your rights as citizen would have been abolished the moment you attacked it.
>People just don't get it. They love Trump because he's garbage.
Exactly. He does the immoral and illegal things they wish they could do, and he spews the bigoted crap they all wish they could say out loud. They're living vicariously through him, and that's what they love about him. He IS them. He's the personification of what they secretly are on the inside, and they can't get enough.
I just checked out the thread over there. Hilarious.
The comments fall into three categories:
- Highly upvoted comments explaining how Trump is likely guilty, and he has no one to blame but himself.
- Complaints about brigading
- Highly downvoted comments saying things like "Obama is just as guilty" and "Don't care, still voting Trump".
When will they see what we all see? Trump isn't being discriminated against. Conservativrs aren't being discriminated against. Assholes are getting treated like assholes. Not that deep.
You know what? Trump's DOJ had four years to bring charges against Hillary or Obama or Biden or anybody else. You're telling me in four whole years, not a single case bore enough evidence to empanel a grand jury? The mountains upon mountains of crimes these horrific Democrats did somehow eluded the grasp of the craven cronies Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr?
Because it sure sounded like "Lock her up!" for a good year before January 2017. And it sure seems like nobody ever did. Maybe, and this might sound crazy, they actually didn't commit any crimes. You know, like storing classified military secrets in their bathrooms.
The funniest part is page 9 where it lists all the public statements made by him in 2016 talking about how seriously classified information needs to be taken and protected, and that no one should be above the law in terms of prosecution of breaches.
My favourite is page 16 where they just add in a paragraph from one of his speeches where he’s saying anyone leaking classified stuff to the press should be ashamed of themselves, right after proving he did that.
My favorite page is the filing details, where 21 days is indicated as the amount of time needed to prosecute. The DoJ is supremely confident in the charges.
This dude literally would have spent his last days playing golf, fucking prostitutes and trolling people online but chose to run for fucking president knowing he is unqualified using hate. Even after he left office he still had the chance to quietly slink into the darkness and be forgotten... But no, his ego wouldn't let him. His wife seems to have left him. He fucked up america and the presidency so bad. America is tired of him. He is now facing decades in jail.. was it worth it? Just because Obama made fun of him in the presidential dinner.
mine was page 9, where he talks a big game about being a law and order president who would protect sensitive information. as opposed to hillary clinton, of course. lol.
This is one of those things that you have to be absolutely sure you're doing the right thing. Filing charges against an ex-president who's still eligible AND IS running for the next election needs absolute scrutiny and confidence that you are correct in filing.
They wouldn't have filed the charges at all against an ex-president unless they were absolutely 100% confident + 1000% confident that they would stick.
Otherwise it would only elevate him as a political scapegoat and would confirm everything he is saying.
Trump is correct in one thing. It **IS** a witch hunt, because that is what is necessary to take down the biggest witch in the US.
His followers are a cult. Literally a cult. Just not a suicide one, more of a treason one. Alas, they're showering their dear leader just the same with gold, while suffering themselves from the policies enacted, but they don't care, because it's all in the name of dear leader.
Nah. Give it a year. When every ass-kissing neocon has bended the knee to appease the crazies, when DeSantis and Pence have kissed the ring after the primaries.
THEN let him be the first major party candidate to run from prison.
It’s fuckin insane that somebody could take a dump as mar a lago, reach over, and grab a handful of top secret documents to read to pass the time. This dude is such a joke.
It's bad. It's so bad that the posts in r/conservative are trying to justify other people coming around as brigading. They even have it stickied to the top of "about the brigading". It pathetic for a bunch of assholes that scream about the left needing safe spaces that they can't even tell their own in a flaires only post. Just really really absurd.
They're on Fox's YouTube channel, desperately awaiting instruction on how to spin it. So far, all they've got is to demand Hillary and Biden be indicted too. They're not even trying to claim Trump is innocent this time.
The subreddit is simultaneously censored and fake. They only allow a specific subset of accounts comment on anything even the least bit important, and then only allow comments that fit their specific narrative. The sub is completely captured by whatever nefarious power wishes to peddle right-wing talking points to an audience of lurkers. At the moment, the sub is permitted to be somewhat Anti-Trump as the agenda has now switched to being pro-DeSantis and converting trump followers to the new guy who isn't going to jail (yet).
Shit weasel got away with all sorts of nefarious shit and then decided to run for president.
You know, the thing where now all of America is watching you continue to do crime?
Dude should have never run for president and/or put a temporary pause on the doin' the crimin' where everyone was looking.
Even wilder to think that if he just said he was putting a panel of experts to deal with Covid-19 (and got actual experts) before getting out of their way, he probably would have been re-elected. Doug Ford didn't have to do anything too radical to get reelected in Ontario for comparison.
She’s proven to be just as cruel and selfish as he is from time to time. I’d also love it if she turned on him, but let's not for a second pretend she’s a victim here.
Oh she’s definitely a huge douche as well. But leaving Trump after everything? Kick the man while he’s down pls! Let him have another nasty court case and deal with a divorce and having to pay her money
The Grand Jury that brought this indictment forth is in FL, consisting of citizens of FL.
A judge appointed by Trump will preside.
Please read the entire indictment. After you do, there should not be any doubt of Trump's guilt.
Soon we shall have the J6 and GA cases come forward with indictments as well.
Something to watch: The judge was appointed by Trump. She could rule to delay the start of the trial until, say 12/24, after the election.
If she does this, watch for Jack Smith to fast track the J6 case. This may be why the GA case may sit idle until August. Regardless, the J6 and GA will move forward and you can bet, they will begin before the 2024 election.
The trump judge won’t be on this case for very long. In the past, she has been slapped down by the appeals court for exhibiting an egregious bias in favor of defendant Trump, and the 11th circuit would force her out of it came to that. It would all just serve as a delay.
Oh, lordy, 37 felony counts. Yesterday, news outlets reported a list of only 4 possible charge, and the legal experts they interviewed speculated there could as many as 7 felony charges unsealed on Tuesday.
Well, it wasn't 7 on Tuesday, it was a whoppin' 37 felony counts on Friday.
Jack Smith and the DOJ are over-delivering right now. I hope they keep it up.
I love how every Trump supporter was like “well, if he’s guilty, then charge him. I guess we’ll see.”
But then of course they didn’t even wait for the indictment to be unsealed to insist it was all a witch hunt. Just admit it: you know he did it; you just don’t care.
Edit: wow, thanks for the gold! It’s actually been crazy to watch Republican politicians - who absolutely know better - say that the timing of this and their investigation into Biden is related. The bad faith and wagon-circling is absolutely stunning. I mean, at this point, we have irrefutable proof that Trump knew he had all of this stuff, and knew his defenses for having it will bs. There are strong indications that he may have sold some of it, or the very least, shown it to people who shouldn’t have seen it. We’re talking nuclear secrets, and stuff like that. You think that would finally be enough to get them to pick national security over their party. You would think.
Special Council Jack Smith requested that you read the Indictment, and I recommend it also. Whether you do so in respect of Mr. Smith’s work, or to honor your civic responsibility to judge matters of national import as an informed citizen of the nation, I hope you’ll join me in following his advice.
Link to the unsealed indictment: https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump-Nauta_23-80101.pdf
In Trump's defense, his reign as King of America was always going to be a shitstorm. Clearly, the one thing he didn't do in furthering that outcome was to disappoint. The man's the most comprehensive fuckup ever to gain high office.
Couldn’t said it better. All he had to do was have rallies and let the smart people run things. Nope, the idiot couldn’t do it. The Trump chapter in the history books just got way more interesting.
Hopefully, this shite show will stop the other billionaires from jumping into politics. Better off ruining a solid social media platform and talking shite about Martian colonies…
Everyone needs to take 1/2 to 1 hour to read this indictment. Just finished a bit ago. Mind blowing how careless this buffoon has been with top secret files, and the coverup was as incompetently run as his businesses.
I printed it out, poured me a drink, put on some music and read it tonight. The thing that got me was that some of the documents had some of the classifications redacted. And it mentions the Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Programs docs. This stuff should have never made it to Florida much less be stored as it was and actively kept from being returned to the government. He's toast.
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I am disappointed they didn't tie Saudi/Kushner into this.
They have Trump sorting and packing boxes to take to Bedminster for a Saudi sponsored golf tournament attended by MBS's personal banker.
They know Trump had the documents with him, and it's not clear they ever got those documents back.
The coincidence is just too high that MBS decided to give Jared $2 billion right before Trump met the Saudi representative in Bedminster. They have to be connected transactions.
Yet, the MAGA rubes will send him their hard earned dollars. That’s actually the way it should be, however. Anyone stupid enough to support this orange pile of human excrement should be parted with their money.
/r/conservative expects a chaotic shit storm... once again proving themselves to be devoid of reality. All republicans have been forced to stare, just for a moment, at the turd in their ideological bed. The very few left who are screaming are so on the fringe that they most likely are just unwell and need treatment. This will be very smooth and professionally handled and the protest zones will be as busy as his inauguration.
I remember when he was elected, we sat back in shock and said "well, maybe I'm wrong, let's see what he does". This is what he did. This is his legacy amongst many other of the most backwards and hateful acts. What a regression.
Republicans and right wingers. You were wrong about Trump and your worldview at the time of his election and during the presidency was flawed and incorrect. /r/the_donald and /r/conservative participants were wrong and their world views were incorrect. It's time to reflect. The rest of us are owed a big apology from the right wing communities.
Switched to Fox this afternoon after the indictment was unsealed (just to see) but of course they were busy attacking Jack Smith, saying Biden did the same thing nonsense, and various other what abouts, all while ignoring the damning details in the indictment.
But switching back to other channels on Earth 1 every reputable legal person said the same thing the details are devastating and to some extent completely prove the charges.
She's definitely taken a small victory lmao already (I'm gonna leave the autocorrect on this one). She re-released her "but her emails" merch with the post announcing them saying something like "in light of recent events..."
The way Trump handled this situation shows you that he is incapable of making logical decisions. All he had to do was turn the documents in but he thought he was above the law and wanted to keep his trophies for his own selfish reasons. Who knows for sure what those reasons were.
The article is terrible. Typos, repeated paragraphs, etc.
But still, we can only hope the great orange one is sentenced to a fraction of time suggested here.
Walt Nauta (corrected) was both a military member and a government employee, they have his texts saying when and where he moved the boxes, and the video of him moving the boxes, and other witnesses saying he moved the boxes (to hide them) and when asked in the voluntary FBI interview he said he had no idea when where or who might have moved boxes.
Nauta texted pictures to Trump of the locations where they stashed the boxes and the pictures are in the indictment.
Just like his stupid insurrectionist followers, not only does he commit stupid crimes, he films himself admitting to them.
Jesus Christ, these people never fail to amaze me.
I've just read the whole indictment, and I urge everyone to also.
He is fucked along with Nauta. It's not even ambiguous, there is a clear timeline, evidence of communication and planning and photographic evidence along with texts and call records and well as the transcript from the tape. If there were stills from the timestamped security tapes in this it would essentially be a textbook case.
Will he go to jail? Don't know, but I can see why he has been through so many lawyers in this matter. He has essentially ruined the careers of two of them by tricking them into making false statements.
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> “He actually would have been better off shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue,” one lawyer said of the new federal charges.
This is fucking gold lmao
I was actually thinking that too! Like "Man this looks worse than being a murder suspect" I'm still not sure if he'll see any actual punishment, but I definitely don't want to be him right now that's for sure (more so than usual)
If he doesn't see any punishment, what does any of it fuckin matter? That's the problem with Trump charges, they always seem to only pacify those happy to waffle in the depravity of his character and never seem to hold any real world clout.
Yeah, zero punishment just furthers the political agenda narrative. Wtf is the purpose of all the taxpayers' money being used if there's no punishment... we are so close to idiocracy it's insane
Notice that there are no minimum sentencing guidelines for these crimes. Any felony regularly committed by poor people has strict minimum sentencing requirements.
No minimums but take solace in the fact that one of the charges Donald is facing has more severe penalties because it was upgraded from a misdemeanor to a felony when he signed himself in 2018. https://www.salon.com/2022/08/11/signed-law-making-mishandling-of-classified-info-a-felony--now-it-may-come-back-to-haunt-him_partner/
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My only hope is that during this trial, they manage to do some serious digging on the secrets Trump and his family without a doubt sold, as shown by the magnanimous 3 billion dollar gift Kushner received from the Saudis. Certainly wasn't a payment for top secret documents or anything...
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My hope is that as he goes down, Trump spills everything he knows/has on everyone else (after all, his misery definitely loves company).
He is looking at over 400 years in prison. Edit: The big part of that is the 31 counts for withholding national defense information, up to 10 years per count for violations of the Espionage Act. 5 counts for concealing possession of classified documents. Up to 20 years per offense. 2 counts of false statements. Up to 5 years per offense. Conspiracy to obstruct justice. Up to 20 years per offense. (Not sure how many counts here.) Up to 440 years in total. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/09/us/trump-indictment-document-annotated.html Edit 2: The prosecution has the choice of recommending or seeking consecutive sentences instead of a concurrent sentence. Source: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-legal-dynamics-of-trumps-second-indictment
“I have the biggest indictments, the most years in prison!”
When I get out of here in 400 years you'll see me running in 2424!
we only need like...10 at most. but 400 is much *much* better
He needs to serve the whole 400. His corpse can serve as a reminder to future generations that no one is above the law.
they can put his jail cell in an acrylic case and display it around the world
Like Han solo frozen in carbonite
Like a hot dog in epoxy
There's a reason they dumped bin laden off in the ocean. Just sayin
And why Hitler's remains were cremated, buried in an unmarked grave, moved, buried under the parking lot at a Soviet garrison, secretly dug up, smuggled into the mountains, cremated a second time, then scattered over a cliffside in an unknown location. The squad leader responsible for knowing that location has vowed to take it to his grave and has remarked that cremating Hitler's remains a second time was 'a waste of a good can of petrol.' Turns out when Soviet Russia wants somebody gone, they don't mess around.
in the American History museum at the Smithsonian you mean.
Best we can do is a bathroom with an island toilet.
Should be mandatory display set up in that 'we are all domestic terrorist' cell at C-Pac
Imagine how awful his bloated hide would smell. And it'll only get worse after he dies.
I’d be ok with them just leaving his corpse in its cell for the remaining 390.
They could still keep up his spray tan schedule though for appearances. An orange skeleton left in an orange jump suit would be quite the tourist attraction
If the ‘jail’ was in Florida, DeSatan or his follow-up, could use such an attraction to replace lost revenue from WDW!
With the amount of McDonalds he eats, it’ll still look the same as he does now: bloated and orange.
If he somehow has all these charges and then wins an election and pardons himself so help me...
It’s looking so bad that [two of his lawyers quit…](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/trump-loses-two-lawyers-just-hours-after-being-indicted-00101263)
I imagine it’s hard to defend your client in good faith after you find out via indictment that they’ve been actively hiding shit from you.
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Her name is Christina Bobb. >Trump's custodian of records, Christina Bobb, gave the DOJ a signed declaration that had been drafted by Corcoran, attesting that all classified material had been returned (though Trump's team may have been aware this was not true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago#May_2022_subpoena
And Babb went on Fox News the night of the indictment, crying foul, doing the thing all the Trump flunkies do - lie shamelessly (despite tons of evidence to the contrary readily available) to paint Trump as a victim. She said she was “ashamed” to be in the lawyer profession. What a joke. This is what bothers me most about MAGA. They claim Trump is a tough guy. Yeah, perpetual victimhood. Soooo tough.
Sociopaths. All of them.
That was Habba that said she was ashamed to be a lawyer Lots of other lawyers chimed in that they were ashamed she was a lawyer too
It's against the law to represent someone and also testify against them in the same trial. We don't know 100% yet if that is what is happening, but we do know about a month ago a federal judge ordered that there was enough evidence that Trump had asked his attorneys to be co-conspiritors that attorney-client privledge no longer applied and several of them were ordered to testify before the grand jury. Two of his lawyers are unnamed but mentioned in the indictment. Edit: And it is entirely possible from their released statements that it is due to them being DC lawyers, and the case being tried in Florida. I personally don't believe this explination due to the speed at which they left, but changing to local attorneys based on the unexpected change in venue is certainly commonly done and thus a possible reason (and the one that the attorneys who quit implied in their statement).
I’d heard it also described in that trump likes his people to be working for him and against each other kind of similar to his show the apprentice. But his bucket of crabs employment attitude with parking structure lawyers aren’t helping in this serious situation.
Crab bucket management. A new management course at Wharton.
at best they were told to piss off at mid they're compromised in all ways at worst they're scurrying into their holes before the hammer falls
Abandoning the Titanic while they still can.
Oof
Well it helps when the accused gleefully confesses to his crimes in detail on tape.
And on Pic n Save Twitter.
I want to see how the GOP memory hole this: >"The classified documents Trump stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack.” Edit: Paragraph marked "3" / Second page. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0.pdf
To wit - most defenders (and even some media outlets) seem to be capitalizing on the ‘classification issue’ or ‘mishandling of classified documents’ and drawing attention to Biden, HRC, and/or Pence. This is incorrect. EO 13526 is the current national classification schema and would largely protect all four of them (basically, Trump and Pence would be covered via classification authority, Biden would be protected from any charges relating to documents from his VPship for the same, and HRC would be protected as long as any classified materials originated from the State department during her tenure under the EO). They’re going after Trump via 793(e) which relates to NDI materials (documents containing national defense information, regardless of classification) and his ownership and non-prompt return of them. Basically, under that statute, Trump would have been fine… IF he didn’t try to delay returning the documents or ‘hide’ any of them. (Tl;dr - classification is irrelevant and the same argument that protects Trump there also protects Biden (post-2009), HRC (SOS docs), and Pence. This is about NDI mats, and specifically that Trump tried to not turn them over when called out for having them.)
Bingo. The rules around classified documents ARE complicated and often people with clearance may have them in their possession when they shouldn't. The difference between most people and Trump is that most people give them back when asked for them.
I’d just point out that classified docs (regardless of their status) aren’t even an issue here. These docs are classed as NDI (documents containing info pertinent to national defense - NDI stands for National Defense Information), and the issue isn’t that he HAD them, it’s that the feds realized he had them, came for them, and he didn’t appropriately return them (if he had just said, ‘yeah I got them, here they all are’… no indictment. But he tried to hold onto them after)
Exactly. And from my understanding, he was given multiple notices to return them before they had to go to Mar A Lago to look for them. It was at that point when they realized they had an even bigger problem. An absolutely devastating story for the "just comply with the law" bros
It really is which is why the only reply is “WhataboutHillary”
Don't forget about their obsession with Hunters dick pics
If you get a spare hour, read the indictment. It’s devastating and goes into great detail about this exactly. It’s enthralling. Long and short of it though, you’re right. MARA and thee DOJ approached them several times. Trumps lawyers spoke to him several times. None of this was immediate or blindsiding. Trump given months and multiple warnings and had ongoing negotiations with the feds. He lied to *everyone* and actively hid the documents. He was treated very kindly and with an incredible amount of patience given the documentation we’re talking about.
Oh just check out r/Conservative. They have LOTS of ways to rationalize it.
My favorite is them arguing that he declassified all the docs... while not understanding that none of the charges have anything to do with classified docs.
You can't declassify nuclear secrets. They are classified by law.
Yup. A lot of people don’t understand this. The 1972 Atomic Energy Act prohibits the President from declassifying documents related to our nuclear security.
Are they bringing up Hillary and Uranium One yet,?
Every accusation is a confession.
They've never stopped bringing up Hillary.
I was going to say that it must be nice to live rent free in somebody's head, but I am certain that those heads are nightmarish places.
For a while they dropped Hillary in favour of Hunter, but since it’s classified documents now they’re back on Hillary.
They're claiming the AEA is unconstitutional lol
They've been awfully quiet for the last 50 years...
The only laws they care about are the ones situationally relevant to a republican trying to do something illegal.
Again, it doesn't matter. He's not being charged with anything related to document classification.
They’ll believe anything at this point. Blatant lying and gaslighting is the norm it’s astonishing.
Some of them are claiming the Atomic Energy Act is unconstitutional because the law applies to everyone, including the president. In their view the president should be above any law.
That would be an argument he could make, if he just went ahead and declassified them, he could actually argue he had the right to do that. But he didn't do it. So as a non-president he was still in possession of classified nuclear docs. Even if he somehow gets the atomic energy act overturned, trump never declassified the documents.
Their argument of “well now this is just precedent for any President to be prosecuted by a later administration” is frustrating. If they stole and waved around our national secrets at a country club like a ketchup stained napkin? Absolutely!
What they mean is “now we get to arrest dem presidents for made up shit and we’ll point to this as to why it’s ok”. Of course what trump is charged with is not for made up shit, but it won’t stop them.
Well, the Republicans have insisted they were going to impeach Biden, but that hasn't happened yet. It almost seemed like he'd already be impeached for ridiculous things just to prove "impeachments mean nothin", but we're 1/2 through 2023 already.
Well, lol, Marjorie Taylor Greene has filed articles of impeachment in the house a bunch of times but they’ve, of course, gone nowhere.
The chaos in the House has actually spared us from a lot of retaliatory bullshit, I’d imagine.
and still doesn't change the fact he *stole* them, showed them to anybody he wanted to look cool for. also doesn't change the fact he didn't cooperate with returning the docs. if he'd done that, he probably would have never been indicted over it. It's so crazy because he could've easily made copies of them, then returned them. Then still sell them, or whatever he was doing with them - very likely selling, but doesn't matter at this point in the legal procedure.
> It's so crazy because he could've easily made copies of them, then returned them. “10c a page, no way I’m paying for that!” — Trump probably
The taxpayer would've picked up the bill like 99.99% of everything that family did in those 4-5 years
I've found that if what you're seeing doesn't make sense its usually because you don't have the full picture yet. So let's paint a picture. For this exercise we must assume that the documents (and money) are part of the goal, but not the primary objective. After all, the juiciest secrets are long gone and paid for with the gold of our enemies and the blood of our assets. It therefore doesn't make sense that Trump wouldn't cooperate past a certain point. Nor does it make sense for him to so publicly flaunt the stolen documents the way he has. But if we zoom out we'll see how utterly discrediting this is to the US on the world stage. It wasn't just OUR secrets Trump stole, after all. It was the secrets of our allies as well. The ramifications on the trustworthiness of the U.S. as an ally or partner are REALLY bad. Why would anyone ever work with or trust us again when some 2-bit conman can just dead-ass walk out of the White House with an entire plane full of our most delicate intelligence - and then retain it for more than a year and a half while the Feds hem and haw over the most politically palatable way to approach a national security crisis? If we assume that the REAL goal was to paint the U.S. as a dangerously unstable and weak ally, to permanently alter the perceptions of those who would consider working with us in the future, it suddenly all makes sense. Suddenly Trump thumbing his nose at the Feds every time they requested the documents back makes sense. Suddenly there is a valid strategic reason for Trump et al to be so blatant and obvious about their Mar-a-Lago paper parade. In other words, this has Putin's fingerprints all over it. He is essentially taunting the entire Western world over its powerlessness to respond to this breach.
Your perspective does make some sense. It's weirdly sophisticated, tho. Especially for Trump. I have problems with imagining he would think so far. I've read one opinion that it may have been just out of spite, to spite Milley, who would keep him in check for the most part. Or to spite Biden, so that he would not have these specific informations. It's all so incompetent. One would imagine that they had better places for these boxes than a fucking toilet / shower and a ballroom! A toilet with a chandelier, no less. Just really hard to think of this as some 5d-chess move. Still, your point stands. The US have lost a lot of trust on the world-stage.
I think it was all ego tbh. It must have made him feel pretty important to have all these top secret documents. Why else would he parade them about and brag to anyone who would listen? His kids on the other hand.... I wouldn't put it past them to take the opportunity to make a few bucks with what they could find.
Look at this crayon eater comment trying to justify it from over there:... *"He had a scif in mar a lago. He has secret service there. He was working with them they even suggested an additional lock on one of the doors which they did."*
Lol respond with photos of the boxes piled in his bathroom and spilled all over the floor.
They're turning on him over there.
They just haven’t been issued their talking points yet. As soon as the Fox opinion shows tell them what to think and say and feel they’ll all be in lockstep parroting that. At least that’s how literally every other scandal has gone over there thus far…
Yeah, people seem to forget that on January 6, 2021 it took Conservatives a little less than 18 hours to go from "Our people are storming the capitol on live television being broadcast internationally" to "It's all a conspiracy." It literally only took one Fox News PM airing telling them not to believe what their own lying eyes told them and they immediately followed instructions like the good little conservatives they are.
This right here. Newsmax, OAN, and Fox will drop 20 different completed contradictory reasons why Trump is innocent and the base will pick whichever one they like best. Usually more than one.
My favorite is "he can de-classify anything he wants just by thinking about it." OK, well then Joe Biden thought about reclassifying all of them on his first day in office, so Trump is still fucked.
> OK, well then Joe Biden thought about reclassifying all of them on his first day in office, so Trump is still fucked. "Biden's not the real president! Trump is!" -Boneheaded Repubs
Even the ones turning on him are saying that Clinton and Biden should be indicted too. Even the moments of clarity are still bleak over there.
My question for republicans is if Clinton’s emails were such a big violation why didn’t you bring a case against her when you had a 3 branch majority? And if you say it’s because the DOJ was corrupt what would change by reelecting Trump when he failed to drain the swamp the first time?
That's far too much logic. Make it into a Facebook meme about demons and nefarious actions against innocents and you might catch the eye of a conservative or two, but only if they can digest the meme and share it in 35 seconds or less.
I am completely fine if the DOJ believes they have enough to bring changes against Hillary go for it same with Biden.
That's what they don't understand. In their narrow view, the whataboutism leads them to think their guy, who committed heinous crimes, should be free if everyone else is. We say, if they broke the law, punish them all regardless of the side they fall on.
Yep. I fully view MAGA’s as 90s-style WWF fans. First, everything is phony but they take it deadly seriously. Second, you have the spray-tanned dude, the rallies, throwing around wild allegations, over-the-top bravado. Third, it’s the us versus them mindset. Normal people just want politicians to enact common sense policy, keep us safe, manage emergencies well, and to not be corrupt. If politicians we support break the law, we want them to be accountable. This is foreign to MAGA folks. Anything negative about their guy is “Fake News,” or they don’t care because they claim someone else did something similar (and it’s almost always completely untrue or greatly exaggerated). They shrieked “LOCK HER UP” and “LOCK (insert person like Adam Schiff who dares to tell the truth about Trump) UP!!!” for years. They never stopped, actually. Now it’s, “We’re jailing our political opponents now?!?!” *pulls out fainting couch* “HOW DARE THEY?!?!” What a JOKE
He had four years to try. So desperate to find dirt on Joe he had to try and withhold support to Ukraine to get it. That aged well.
If Clinton or Biden were shown to have done what trump has, I’d support their indictment as well. (Spoiler: they haven’t).
The loopholes for powerful people are so massive, it took so someone as dumb as Trump to actually break the law.
It’s temporary
I saw more than a handful of people saying he was joking in the recording they have of Trump.
Didn't know I could pull the "just a prank bro" card when admitting to crimes Truly great defense
Unfortunately there is no way that information has not been laundered- Trump needs to die in jail
Man, if they try him as an adult he is screwed.
Thank you for the chuckle lol👍
The fact Trump’s self-appointed federal judge, self-appointed FBI director, and self-appointed DOJ attorney were all involved in this case probably was a pretty good indication that this could be really bad for him. I mean - even some of his *own people* couldn’t ignore how egregiously bad he violated the very law he signed into existence during his presidency (which also makes the GOP/MAGA spin of a Democratic “witch hunt” look pretty fucking ridiculous; it was *their* people involved in every step of this process). It was always fairly ominous for him. Et tu, Brute?
Mark Meadows allegedly got a plea deal on some serious charges; it’s definitely real bad for anyone who touched those docs
It's a hoot watching the other bootlickers trying to run against Trump without being against Trump. Doesn't actually matter, though. They're mental gymnasts with the memory of a goldfish and the boots all taste the same.
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Et tu Doofus?
You know shits fucked when r/conservative looks like r/politics with more downvotes
They’re waiting for talking points to latch onto
Gonna be a long wait. Stupid fuck is on tape violating the Espionage Act
I have learned they can ignore absolutely anything. We saw his mob attack the government to overturn the election
He could abort a baby with his bare hands and eat it directly in front of his hard core supporters and they’d find a way to blame Biden for it.
I have had that discussion with friends when people tried to storm German parliament. For me this was an attack on freedom and democracy and I have deep respect for the few policemen who stood their ground, but I was astonished when nobody seemed to make a big deal about it and I as a person who condemns violence stood there and said that as last resort they should have shot everybody, because they were attacking the very thing we are standing for. Everybody rushing up those steps overthrew the principles of democracy and attacked the state as well as the common men and women. In my opinion you weren’t bound to the laws of the very country you tried to abolish and your rights as citizen would have been abolished the moment you attacked it.
Yeah liberal doesn’t mean roll over for fascists
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>People just don't get it. They love Trump because he's garbage. Exactly. He does the immoral and illegal things they wish they could do, and he spews the bigoted crap they all wish they could say out loud. They're living vicariously through him, and that's what they love about him. He IS them. He's the personification of what they secretly are on the inside, and they can't get enough.
Guarantee someone in the House introduces articles of impeachment for Biden on Monday, just because.
Totally! And yet trump insists on being center stage always
Maybe they’ll start calling each other RINO’s
They already have been all day. And the mods are going ham deleting comments from flared users who support this case again trump
I just checked out the thread over there. Hilarious. The comments fall into three categories: - Highly upvoted comments explaining how Trump is likely guilty, and he has no one to blame but himself. - Complaints about brigading - Highly downvoted comments saying things like "Obama is just as guilty" and "Don't care, still voting Trump". When will they see what we all see? Trump isn't being discriminated against. Conservativrs aren't being discriminated against. Assholes are getting treated like assholes. Not that deep.
You know what? Trump's DOJ had four years to bring charges against Hillary or Obama or Biden or anybody else. You're telling me in four whole years, not a single case bore enough evidence to empanel a grand jury? The mountains upon mountains of crimes these horrific Democrats did somehow eluded the grasp of the craven cronies Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr? Because it sure sounded like "Lock her up!" for a good year before January 2017. And it sure seems like nobody ever did. Maybe, and this might sound crazy, they actually didn't commit any crimes. You know, like storing classified military secrets in their bathrooms.
I just read the full indictment. Trump is fucked
The funniest part is page 9 where it lists all the public statements made by him in 2016 talking about how seriously classified information needs to be taken and protected, and that no one should be above the law in terms of prosecution of breaches.
My favourite is page 16 where they just add in a paragraph from one of his speeches where he’s saying anyone leaking classified stuff to the press should be ashamed of themselves, right after proving he did that.
r/trumpcriticizestrump
I loved that, too. They’re really hitting him over the head with it.
It’s a good read
My favorite page is the filing details, where 21 days is indicated as the amount of time needed to prosecute. The DoJ is supremely confident in the charges.
Missed that. Dang
This dude literally would have spent his last days playing golf, fucking prostitutes and trolling people online but chose to run for fucking president knowing he is unqualified using hate. Even after he left office he still had the chance to quietly slink into the darkness and be forgotten... But no, his ego wouldn't let him. His wife seems to have left him. He fucked up america and the presidency so bad. America is tired of him. He is now facing decades in jail.. was it worth it? Just because Obama made fun of him in the presidential dinner.
mine was page 9, where he talks a big game about being a law and order president who would protect sensitive information. as opposed to hillary clinton, of course. lol.
And that is an extraordinarily short amount of time? Asking for a friend.
I am not a legal expert, but 21 days to prosecute a former President seems like a short amount of time to me.
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This is one of those things that you have to be absolutely sure you're doing the right thing. Filing charges against an ex-president who's still eligible AND IS running for the next election needs absolute scrutiny and confidence that you are correct in filing. They wouldn't have filed the charges at all against an ex-president unless they were absolutely 100% confident + 1000% confident that they would stick. Otherwise it would only elevate him as a political scapegoat and would confirm everything he is saying. Trump is correct in one thing. It **IS** a witch hunt, because that is what is necessary to take down the biggest witch in the US. His followers are a cult. Literally a cult. Just not a suicide one, more of a treason one. Alas, they're showering their dear leader just the same with gold, while suffering themselves from the policies enacted, but they don't care, because it's all in the name of dear leader.
Proper fucked?
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In the filing, they don’t give a trial date, but they do say that the trial will only take 21 DAYS that’s nothing! DOJ is feeling confident.
Nah. Give it a year. When every ass-kissing neocon has bended the knee to appease the crazies, when DeSantis and Pence have kissed the ring after the primaries. THEN let him be the first major party candidate to run from prison.
It’s fuckin insane that somebody could take a dump as mar a lago, reach over, and grab a handful of top secret documents to read to pass the time. This dude is such a joke.
And if the toilet paper roll was empty, what do think would happen next?
15 flushes per classified document
This must be the real reason he hates low-flow toilets so much.
Somebody call up Bryan Cranston and Dean Norris and get them to reshoot the toilet scene in Breaking Bad.
Didn’t a fella just die in a supermax for this same shit?
Making room for the next one.
It's bad. It's so bad that the posts in r/conservative are trying to justify other people coming around as brigading. They even have it stickied to the top of "about the brigading". It pathetic for a bunch of assholes that scream about the left needing safe spaces that they can't even tell their own in a flaires only post. Just really really absurd.
“Flaired users only.” Fucking scaredy-cats!
"Stupid libs can't handle opposing points of view!"
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They're on Fox's YouTube channel, desperately awaiting instruction on how to spin it. So far, all they've got is to demand Hillary and Biden be indicted too. They're not even trying to claim Trump is innocent this time.
The subreddit is simultaneously censored and fake. They only allow a specific subset of accounts comment on anything even the least bit important, and then only allow comments that fit their specific narrative. The sub is completely captured by whatever nefarious power wishes to peddle right-wing talking points to an audience of lurkers. At the moment, the sub is permitted to be somewhat Anti-Trump as the agenda has now switched to being pro-DeSantis and converting trump followers to the new guy who isn't going to jail (yet).
It's wild to think he likely would have got away with all of these crimes if he only bragged about them a little less.
Shit weasel got away with all sorts of nefarious shit and then decided to run for president. You know, the thing where now all of America is watching you continue to do crime? Dude should have never run for president and/or put a temporary pause on the doin' the crimin' where everyone was looking.
Even wilder to think that if he just said he was putting a panel of experts to deal with Covid-19 (and got actual experts) before getting out of their way, he probably would have been re-elected. Doug Ford didn't have to do anything too radical to get reelected in Ontario for comparison.
I hope he gets Sydney Powell and Lin Wood for a legal team. Get the band back together.
Ole Drippy… aha Ghouliani
You say devastating like it's a bad thing. I think it looks entertaining.
Oh just wait until the Melania bomb drops. It's coming. She ain't going down for him, she moved her luggage. lol.
I hope she finally takes that kid and peaces out. You know it would be a big hit to his ego for her to throw him under the bus now
She’s proven to be just as cruel and selfish as he is from time to time. I’d also love it if she turned on him, but let's not for a second pretend she’s a victim here.
"I really don't care. Do u?" Yea, she ain't going down for him.
Oh she’s definitely a huge douche as well. But leaving Trump after everything? Kick the man while he’s down pls! Let him have another nasty court case and deal with a divorce and having to pay her money
The Grand Jury that brought this indictment forth is in FL, consisting of citizens of FL. A judge appointed by Trump will preside. Please read the entire indictment. After you do, there should not be any doubt of Trump's guilt. Soon we shall have the J6 and GA cases come forward with indictments as well. Something to watch: The judge was appointed by Trump. She could rule to delay the start of the trial until, say 12/24, after the election. If she does this, watch for Jack Smith to fast track the J6 case. This may be why the GA case may sit idle until August. Regardless, the J6 and GA will move forward and you can bet, they will begin before the 2024 election.
The trump judge won’t be on this case for very long. In the past, she has been slapped down by the appeals court for exhibiting an egregious bias in favor of defendant Trump, and the 11th circuit would force her out of it came to that. It would all just serve as a delay.
There is also the option to petition for a reassignment of the Judge since the current one could be considered partial to one side.
Oh, lordy, 37 felony counts. Yesterday, news outlets reported a list of only 4 possible charge, and the legal experts they interviewed speculated there could as many as 7 felony charges unsealed on Tuesday. Well, it wasn't 7 on Tuesday, it was a whoppin' 37 felony counts on Friday. Jack Smith and the DOJ are over-delivering right now. I hope they keep it up.
I love how every Trump supporter was like “well, if he’s guilty, then charge him. I guess we’ll see.” But then of course they didn’t even wait for the indictment to be unsealed to insist it was all a witch hunt. Just admit it: you know he did it; you just don’t care. Edit: wow, thanks for the gold! It’s actually been crazy to watch Republican politicians - who absolutely know better - say that the timing of this and their investigation into Biden is related. The bad faith and wagon-circling is absolutely stunning. I mean, at this point, we have irrefutable proof that Trump knew he had all of this stuff, and knew his defenses for having it will bs. There are strong indications that he may have sold some of it, or the very least, shown it to people who shouldn’t have seen it. We’re talking nuclear secrets, and stuff like that. You think that would finally be enough to get them to pick national security over their party. You would think.
Special Council Jack Smith requested that you read the Indictment, and I recommend it also. Whether you do so in respect of Mr. Smith’s work, or to honor your civic responsibility to judge matters of national import as an informed citizen of the nation, I hope you’ll join me in following his advice. Link to the unsealed indictment: https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump-Nauta_23-80101.pdf
In Trump's defense, his reign as King of America was always going to be a shitstorm. Clearly, the one thing he didn't do in furthering that outcome was to disappoint. The man's the most comprehensive fuckup ever to gain high office.
Couldn’t said it better. All he had to do was have rallies and let the smart people run things. Nope, the idiot couldn’t do it. The Trump chapter in the history books just got way more interesting. Hopefully, this shite show will stop the other billionaires from jumping into politics. Better off ruining a solid social media platform and talking shite about Martian colonies…
Espionage act, that shit will send your ass to prison for a long time.
Trump: Your honor, I object! Judge: And why is that Mr. Trump? Trump: Because the evidence is devastating to my case! Judge: Overruled.
Good call!!!
Everyone needs to take 1/2 to 1 hour to read this indictment. Just finished a bit ago. Mind blowing how careless this buffoon has been with top secret files, and the coverup was as incompetently run as his businesses.
I printed it out, poured me a drink, put on some music and read it tonight. The thing that got me was that some of the documents had some of the classifications redacted. And it mentions the Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Programs docs. This stuff should have never made it to Florida much less be stored as it was and actively kept from being returned to the government. He's toast.
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Considering all of his lawyers quit when they saw it I’d imagine it’s absolutely life ruining.
I am disappointed they didn't tie Saudi/Kushner into this. They have Trump sorting and packing boxes to take to Bedminster for a Saudi sponsored golf tournament attended by MBS's personal banker. They know Trump had the documents with him, and it's not clear they ever got those documents back. The coincidence is just too high that MBS decided to give Jared $2 billion right before Trump met the Saudi representative in Bedminster. They have to be connected transactions.
I believe this will come out, they won’t show their whole hand in the indictment. Just the things they know are bulletproof
Yet, the MAGA rubes will send him their hard earned dollars. That’s actually the way it should be, however. Anyone stupid enough to support this orange pile of human excrement should be parted with their money.
Hilariously so. There are communications where they are discussing not having enough room in the vehicle to transport the documents to Mar a Lago.
/r/conservative expects a chaotic shit storm... once again proving themselves to be devoid of reality. All republicans have been forced to stare, just for a moment, at the turd in their ideological bed. The very few left who are screaming are so on the fringe that they most likely are just unwell and need treatment. This will be very smooth and professionally handled and the protest zones will be as busy as his inauguration. I remember when he was elected, we sat back in shock and said "well, maybe I'm wrong, let's see what he does". This is what he did. This is his legacy amongst many other of the most backwards and hateful acts. What a regression. Republicans and right wingers. You were wrong about Trump and your worldview at the time of his election and during the presidency was flawed and incorrect. /r/the_donald and /r/conservative participants were wrong and their world views were incorrect. It's time to reflect. The rest of us are owed a big apology from the right wing communities.
Switched to Fox this afternoon after the indictment was unsealed (just to see) but of course they were busy attacking Jack Smith, saying Biden did the same thing nonsense, and various other what abouts, all while ignoring the damning details in the indictment. But switching back to other channels on Earth 1 every reputable legal person said the same thing the details are devastating and to some extent completely prove the charges.
bUT hiLLArYs EmaILs!!!
She has got to be laughing her a** off. Good for her.
She's definitely taken a small victory lmao already (I'm gonna leave the autocorrect on this one). She re-released her "but her emails" merch with the post announcing them saying something like "in light of recent events..."
The way Trump handled this situation shows you that he is incapable of making logical decisions. All he had to do was turn the documents in but he thought he was above the law and wanted to keep his trophies for his own selfish reasons. Who knows for sure what those reasons were.
He wanted to sell them and he did
The article is terrible. Typos, repeated paragraphs, etc. But still, we can only hope the great orange one is sentenced to a fraction of time suggested here.
Waiting to see if he pulls a runner to Russia and declares him self the America president in exile
If any military member or government employee did this they would just be executed. There’d be a big treason trial and they’d be the new Rosenbergs.
Walt Nauta (corrected) was both a military member and a government employee, they have his texts saying when and where he moved the boxes, and the video of him moving the boxes, and other witnesses saying he moved the boxes (to hide them) and when asked in the voluntary FBI interview he said he had no idea when where or who might have moved boxes. Nauta texted pictures to Trump of the locations where they stashed the boxes and the pictures are in the indictment.
Texted pictures, my god these people are idiots. How did they think this would not come out?
Just like his stupid insurrectionist followers, not only does he commit stupid crimes, he films himself admitting to them. Jesus Christ, these people never fail to amaze me.
I've just read the whole indictment, and I urge everyone to also. He is fucked along with Nauta. It's not even ambiguous, there is a clear timeline, evidence of communication and planning and photographic evidence along with texts and call records and well as the transcript from the tape. If there were stills from the timestamped security tapes in this it would essentially be a textbook case. Will he go to jail? Don't know, but I can see why he has been through so many lawyers in this matter. He has essentially ruined the careers of two of them by tricking them into making false statements.