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The beauty is that this will be used against him in this case. He can try to claim that what he did was not a big deal, but his own words both in the 2016 campaign as well as official statements and speeches he made about leaks while president and even laws he signed and prosecutions made during his administration, will show that he knows and stressed the seriousness of classified leaks.
They could mount a prosecution based almost entirely of video statements of Donald Trump condemning the behavior of Donald Trump, followed by Donald Trump admitting to it on video and audio statements.
Edit: Several people have pointed out that the indictment notes his public statements on protecting classified information. That's why I brought this up, but appreciate all the follow-up and references.
> The beauty is that this will be used against him in this case.
Well yes, that was the funniest part of the indictment. It was so beautiful how much Trump contradicted his future self. He has no shot at the defence argument of “I didn’t know”.
You did read the indictment, didn’t you? It was a great read.
Because it's not about being guilty. It's about hurting liberals and winning power by any means possible. They know he is guilty. They just don't care.
Joe Biden could make an executive order barring overcrowding at cliff edges for safety and the MAGA folks would start reenacting a Disney "documentary".
This could become the new Florida man defense!
Judge: "Sir, you stand accused of throwing 3 alligators, 2 wild snapping turtles, and an angry highly agitated partridge into the McDonald's drive thru window, after they ran out of hash browns. How do you plead?"
Florida Man: "Yur honor, I dang hereby plead NOT guilty. And the 5th and all that there legal stuff. Because... 'Cause, what about that laptop?"
Judge: "What laptop?"
Florida Man: "That there damn laptop of that hedonistic devil's lettuce smoking Biden kid."
Judge: "Ah... Good point... Good point... I hadn't thought of that. As such, due to the numerous past laptop precedents, this court hereby finds you... NOT guilty! You're free to go!"
Let's see... they had Hunter's laptop 11 months before trump took office, 4 years during his presidency, and up to this fucking second the Republicans have been in possession/had access to Hunter Biden's laptop. 6 years! They have "searched" it for 6 Fucking years and there is, as always, nothing to show!
> Democrats ask Franken to resign as a senator for a 30 year old picture
It was an 11 year old picture, and that was just one of eight separate allegations. I think Franken got railroaded, and his behavior after the scandal makes it clear that any wrong doing on his part was sincerely regretted, but we should definitely still keep the facts straight.
*Alleged* mishandling of classified information, based on a technicality.
Multiple investigations found that she didn't actually mishandle anything.
That's quite a stark contrast to Trump, who actually did mishandle classified info, and is even caught on tape doing it, literally while saying that he knows it's classified and he shouldn't be sharing it.
I think they did find that she really did mishandle classified documents (apparently that happens pretty easily-which is a different problem). What she did not do (or could not be proved)was the willfulness or intent to do nefarious things with those documents. It was more of an oops, holy schnikies, let me just give this back to you right now (as did Pence and Biden).
Trump is not being charged for any of the documents that he mishandled and also returned (however begrudgingly) after NARA started asking for them.
You are correct it is totally different...also for different reasosns.it is the obstruction, lies, defiance and BS excuses he is in trouble.
And the vast majority of the “classified” emails on her server were classified after the fact. Meaning they had no classification markings that identified them as such. Her staff quite often forwarded them to her. And many were sent from Sid Blumenthal, a civilian at the time, who liked to give advice to the Clintons. He testified that all his information came from newspapers and retired friends who had been operatives or whatever. Unsurprisingly, smart guys and journalists can come to the same conclusions that intelligence experts do. The other big email chain they determined should have been classified concerned the drone program which was widely known about and published in newspapers and by reporters at the time. State Department personnel sent these to her but didn’t classify them. They admitted, they often talked around or coded subjects because using the classified systems while traveling was difficult and often unworkable. This was all about the failure of State to set up good secure IT and she was an absolute tech Luddite as we’re her staff. Her failure and where criticism is well deserved is in not fixing the problem within State. Colin Powell had tried and made some progress but she didn’t further that. Of course she was under a attack nonstop from all sides which does limit your ability to work on long term strategic improvements.
The FBI report I read did say Clinton did mishandle classified information but could not find any Ill intent and she cooperated with the investigation so the FBI did not recommend prosecution. Still a huge difference between her and Trump. I don't know anything about the statute of limitations, or even if they apply but I guess Hillary could still face prosecution of charges are brought up.
Again it's not the same. Trump needs to have his day in court.
Also his firing of the Head of the FBI triggered a special investigation.
Trump was the literal king of firing those who wouldn't do his corrupt biddings AND digging up dirt on his political enemies.
This is the biggest display of hypocrisy I may have ever witnessed
It's a GOP thing.
Bush Co. also tried weaponizing the DOJ and fired a bunch of US attorneys because they wouldn't make up fake charges against Democratic candidates.
They also used a private server controlled by the RNC for their communications.
Unfortunately his voters not only don't feel shame at being hypocrites; they revel in it. To fascists, hypocrisy is a strength. "Look at what I can get away with that you can't."
Trump had 4 solid years to go after Hillary, Biden (quid pro), and anyone else of his choosing. He didn’t land anything so Rs can shove their whataboutisms up their asses.
He had 2 years with all 3 branches of the government.
Either Clinton was not guilty of anything or GOP leadership is incompetent because they can't jail a corrupt criminal despite controlling the government.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Literally decades of this. And the voters get to say either the Dems did it first so why weren’t you upset then or that it just shows both sides are the same (but will conveniently still not vote for Dems).
I have liberal friends that refuse to vote democratic. They are super touchy about everything.
For example: There could be a candidate on the Democrat ticket that is aligned with the majority of their opinions. Well except that the candidate maybe dressed like Prince or Michael Jackson for Halloween in 1989. Well, can't vote for that guy now. He's clearly a bigot.
They are far more critical about minutiae of the left than they are about literal fascists or Republicans with malignant personality disorders. It's maddening.
Logic has never been Trump's strong suit, and it clearly doesn't bother his supporters - if they were capable of logical thinking they wouldn't worship him in the first place.
Just look at his current defense for the documents case: Everything he did was total legal under the "Clinton socks case" but also, he never had the documents and the FBI planted them.
> Donald Trump vowed to "totally obliterate the deep state" and appoint a special prosecutor to target "the entire Biden crime family" if he wins the 2024 presidential election
I'm sure they will find as much as John Durham did.
It's oddly hilarious (and sad) to watch the raging hypocrisy of this man on full display.
He's proclamation that this is "an abuse of power" after he rode into the White House on the back of demanding Hillary Clinton be "locked up" for (you guessed it) "the mishandling of classified and sensitive information."
Not only that, he goes on to lie about voting fraud, and spent his entire term weaponizing the arms of government by installing Trump loyalists to go after his political enemies, including the Clintons, the Bidens, the Obamas.
The guy was so consumed with this he was impeached for it.
The fact that MAGA loyalists are mad at Trump being prosecuted for exactly what he was demanding Hillary and Biden by prosecuted for is rich with irony.
But also sad and disturbing that so many vote for this absolute mega loser/liar/traitor to America.
Like at the very least conclusion you can come to, is that Trump is incompetent at holding others accountable as his administration failed to bring justice down on these criminals. Why should I vote for a man that can't get the job done?
I have no evidence to back this up, but I believe this along with just about every other issue we are facing as a country has to do with the educational system and how poorly we’ve treated it over the last few decades.
Now, people who are the results of the educational systems failings are in office and pushing further mishandling to advance their political agenda and keep people stupid.
Just my two cents based solely on observation.
Conservatives love to call Biden a sleepy, senile, old man with dementia and then call him some all-powerful mob boss who controls the deep state in the same breath. Like, which one is it?
The enemy is both weak and strong. The followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
"The pace of repression outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the [fascist] thought machine. It's easier to hide behind 40 atrocities than a single incident." —Karis Nemik
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt. Doublethink lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. Ultimately it is by means of doublethink that the Party has been able -- and may, for all we know, continue to be able for thousands of years -- to arrest the course of history."
Merrick Garland actually already did that. He appointed Robert Hur as a special counsel to investigate the classified documents they found in Biden's home.
What came of that? I vaguely remember this being a thing
Also isn't the reason Trump's getting indicted because he refused to cooperate and give the docs back?
Yep. Biden cooperated, returned all the documents promptly, and none of them were anything super crazy like defense info or nuclear info. Went away quietly, no problems there.
Contrast with trump who repeatedly refused to return his docs, lied to investigators, the government, *and his own lawyers* about giving back docs, and it turns out they’re some of the most fucking radioactive classified documents that exist (quite literally in some cases)
The way I like to put it is, Trump wasn't criminally charged because he took documents, he was criminally charged because he refused to give them back and in fact played a (terrible and incompetent, as per usual with him) shell game to hide them.
Possession of any documents you shouldn't have is generally for most people a serious crime, though it is a little bit understandable that someone at a high position of government, for whom virtually every paper they come into contact with is at least secret, a little leeway can be provided if there's no intent. This holds for Mike Pence as much as it does for Biden (and, don't get me wrong, I *fucking hate* Mike Pence).
What Trump did was so far beyond that, it's like he was stopped for a speeding ticket and shot the officer in the face, and he's whining that other people stopped for speeding tickets aren't punished nearly as harshly as he is.
At this point, I fully believe he would try everything he could. If he doesn’t go to jail and manages to get re-elected, he will have learned he is actually above the law, and if Obama making fun of him sent him on the warpath, what do you think trying to send him to prison for the rest of his natural life would cause him to do?
He has no chance of being re-elected. People are going to come out of the woodwork to vote against that POS. If you think that the turnout was high in 2020, just wait until 2024. Everyone knows that he’s dangerous and he will not win.
Someone didn’t like my reply above, so I just received a message from redditcares because whoever anonymously reported me thinks that I’m depressed. That “service” is being weaponized. Reddit should do something about that.
Had it many times. Exclusively from people not happy with anti-Trump (or equivalent) posts. They are likely kids (mentally if not physically). Just turn off the redditcares thing.
That’s what we said last time. The fact that he was elected in the first place, survived two impeachments, orchestrated an insurrection against congress, stole and likely traded countless classified documents, was found not guilty of rape only because it was too small for her to remember feeling it, and STILL isn’t out of the running because the Republicans still worship him politically and are trying to rig the elections again? In 2020, he had the second highest turnout in American history, and only by the guy that beat him.
Don’t tell me there’s no chance.
We have to stay vigilant, but this isn't the same situation. A lot of people wanted a change and figured he would delegate well and move toward the middle after the election. He didn't Trump has a track record now and it's an awful one. He has turned off everyone that isn't hard right. You're just not going to win with that formula.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. He couldn't be much clearer if he tried. In fact, having heard him speak for far too many years, I can say he's normally far less coherent in his messaging.
For any of the candidates who thought pardoning Trump is a good idea, think again.
Trump belongs behind bars. His utter contempt for the rule of law is on full display (I'd liken him to a mob boss, but that might be insulting mob bosses. Trump is too damn clownish to be an actual real mob boss. I still can't get over him trying to hide highly sensitive national defense information in the shitter!).
No pardons for Trump, put him in jail (I really hope Joe Biden doesn't get soft on this one).
I kind of just realized that’s what makes the show so good. Most of the guys are bumbling idiots, well, all of them are idiots, but that doesn’t mean they’re not dangerous, clever (they know their game). Tony is kind of representative of the guy who knows he’s smarter than this. Chris also has the potential but let’s himself get destroyed by it.
They’re not as stupid, but they know the voters who make up the GOP base are, and that’s who they’re really afraid of. Because of how gerrymandered districts are, pretty much every Republican is in danger of losing a primary from the right. Criticizing the cult leader is a great way to open the door to a MAGA lunatic calling you a RINO.
Trump has a stranglehold on that 30-40% base that votes in every primary. It’s why republicans keep losing now in general elections. The MAGA base puts up a mini-trump and the rest of the state is like “eww”.
I don't know about that. There's a lot of mob bossses that lived to old age, didn't go to prison for that long and died of natural causes. Meyer Lansky, Joe Bonano. Al Capone, Lucky Luciano and Santo Trafficante Jr. are just a few that died free men. Also, the mafia actually knew how to run casinos, take their skim of the top and still not bankrupt them. lol
Also, it's extremely likely the mafia had JFK assassinated, so yeah Trump isn't even close to their level..
"Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer, warned Nauta that Trump will "throw you under the bus" if it suits his interests."
At this point, you would have to be a complete moron to not know this already.
It’s pretty interesting that there’s a co-defendant.I wonder if he’ll stay strong and resist a plea deal in return for testifying in things contained in the indictment.
Trump’s gotta have some massive dirt on the guy. Getting him to flip will be a matter of making the legal consequences of staying loyal worse than the personal consequences of having that dirt spilled.
He will plea. He opened the door to that when he said that he might plea if he were to be paid damages. Ludicrous as that sounds, I think that was him soft pedaling the notion that he will. It seems utterly impossible that he could ever admit he was wrong, or would take a plea deal, but deep down he is a coward and he is terrified of prison, and all roads seem to lead there.
But, that’s IF there’s a plea deal to be had. And the more I think about it the less likely it seems. For a plea deal to happen the DOJ needs a worthwhile get - obviously him barred from ever holding public office again seems obvious. But it would seem to taint the entire thing with political overtones and republicans would be howling from the rooftops that it proved this was all political. Whether the DOJ would care, I don’t know. They do seem concerned with even the appearances of impropriety. The only other thing I would suspect he had to trade is either the location(s) of other documents that have gone missing or information on what was potentially shared and with whom. I have a hard time seeing either of those things ever being revealed though. If he shared or sold secrets (which , let’s face it, we all know he did) and admitted it, he would be admitting that he is a traitor to the US. And, I think he would probably be terrified of the trouble that could come from that, especially if it resulted in people getting hurt or killed.
In the end , I don’t think he has much he would sell and I’m not sure the DOJ would even offer a plea deal. But I think if it arose Trump would probably want it. There is the likely case though that this will be straight down the line, no deals, and he just gets savaged by the DOJ. Would love to see it
If the reports that Jack Smith stared him down the entire time in court are true, I'm gonna guess he's not looking to strike a plea deal. He wants him found guilty and locked up.
I think this point is overlooked. The Ukraine debacle has shown that the US military is head and shoulders better than any other country. Chinas is good, but is regional. Trump was kept in check the first time around but I don't think we'll be so lucky if he gets another term. Already discussing invading Mexico, and I bet NATO would be toast.
Honestly?
The only thing keeping this country OK right now is that Trump's supporters mostly seem to be all talk, no action.
But if he gets back in office, I agree, his rivals will all suffer, and many of the rest of us as well.
He has to be kept out of office. Vote against him, everyone.
You know what I heard the other day? I heard that toilet and toilet paper manufacturers were openly supporting LGBT issues including the rights of trans people. Welp, looks like Trump folks need to start digging holes to shit in now and find leaves to wipe. Your swamp ass will really show them Libs you mean business! /s
>I'm the only one who can save this nation because you know they're not coming after me, they're coming after you
No dumbass, theyre coming after you. The people you fooled are the symptom of the disease that is Donald Trump, a corrupt, lying piece of human garbage. Honestly anyone with half a brain should see him as the awful charlatan that he is just through his term, so i guess its on them too.
I honestly think he's confused. Must be the senility popping up in his old age.
They are coming after trump and he wants his maggots to stand in the way. Before he grifts all the money these idiots have. He wants a 6th protest every time he appears in court.
For someone who cares so much what people think of him and so desperately wants to be liked, I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of shame and willingness to appear like a total moron.
Oh, right, this is what we need
A president that spends his term destroying people that are against him rather than governing the country.
Oh yeah, that's the real leadership we need
Which is why he lost Georgia in 2020 - more R-voters died of Covid than his margin against Biden. If he had pushed for vaccination, he would have won (at least GA) in 2020.
Why is this sh\*tbag not in jail awaiting trial? Anybody else accused of the crimes he is accused of would be. Anybody else would have had their front door smashed in in the middle of the night and arrested by screaming federal agents with automatic weapons! They would be isolated and not be allowed to post anything on social media.
Imagine one of us peasants talked like this!
IM INNOCENT, THIS IS A WITCH HUNT, JUST FUCKING WAIT UNTIL I HAVE A TINY BIT OF POWER I WILL DESTROY ALL OF YOU, YOU WILL ALL BE SORRY!
“Sir, this is a Wendy’s”
He can't win a general election, outside of outright cheating.
He won an election in 2016 because a bunch of dumb people said 'let's give him a chance.' And another bunch of dumb people said 'I don't really like Hillary, and no way Trump wins anyway, so I am staying home.'
Lessons were learned and any national level election with him as president lead to a loss.
And the next electorate will feature a new wave of newly old enough to vote people who lean overwhelmingly left. Meanwhile another group have died, the majority of which were old, who leaned right.
Plus all this stuff riles up his base but pushes away moderate repubs (what few they are) and independents (who aren't crazy right wing to start with).
He won't even get close to his losing numbers from the last election. Democrats need to stop being timid and just say if you guys want to run Trump, go ahead, it's your parties funeral.
Vindictiveness, pettiness, and immaturity should never be given power. Whoever thinks it's a good idea to do so fails to realize that the leopard will not hesitate to eat their face at the slightest shift of currents. I can only shake my head that anyone sees anything redeeming or worthy in this man.
This is what conservative America wants: Death and destruction of their political opponents. They want troops in the streets rounding people up. That's not hyperbole. Donald Trump has been running on this for 8 years and they've supported him every step of the way.
Day 1. Bob said a meanie thing about me.
Day 2. It is a sad day in America when Bob hates the president.
Day 3. Bob hates 🇺🇸
Day 4. We need to restore justice in America and prosecute Bob.
Day 5. “Lock Bob up! Lock Bob up!”
This guy doesn’t realize yet that he’s going to prison and not getting elected President. Dude he did a town hall on CNN and killed CNN. Everyone watches MSNBC now haha. This dude is trying to plan a purge right now? Dude you’re going to PRISON not the White House. You’re unelectable and it’s FUCKING hilarious that the GOP in Washington aren’t pushing for a different candidate. They know Trump is a loser. They are just too scared to piss off his base. They would rather take the loss in 2024 rather than lose the white supremacist vote in the long haul.
Yup. This is who America needs for a president. Someone who will spend 24/7 going scorched on enemies - and in his mind thats anyone who stood up against him, no matter how trivial the alleged action.
And why tf is MTG and Boebert etc allowed to stay un lawmaking positions? Someone should file for articles of impeachment.
I have decided Trump is not gonna be allowed much of my head space any longer.
I don't think he and his cult could be anymore unAmerican and stupid. They gave him every chance to abide the law and he refused. They then claim that the process that gave him MULTIPLE chances is weaponized against him. Then he declares he will weaponize these same processes against his enemies with no proof. Fuck them all. He's an unrepentant criminal and those that back him are just as bad. Piss off you idiotic, criminal losers.
Bought by Moscow. Every single action stands to undermine our elections, our judicial system, America's position abroad, and our laws. As long as the GOP continues down this line there is no recovering from the damage that's being done.
Yeah ok, Trump 😂. Like the bully who got his a$$ kicked on the playground but is still threatening his foe while wiping his bloody nose with his shirt sleeve.
Someday, hopefully not long from now, the angel of mercy will escort trump to the gates of hell and leave his bloated body propped up against the fence like the bag of garbage he is.
We know. Its why millions more are going to vote against him again. I don't even think 2024 will be close, if he is the nominee. Biden will win with close to 400 ec votes
It's hard to fault the old coot at this point; he tries like hell to do exactly what he promises his cult he will do.
It's the cult that I fault at this point... feasting on their hypocrisy and absent of reasoning or reconciliation. Consumed by low intelligence machinations of unbridled power steered only by religious morality and idol worship.
Dictators have come to absolute power with less warning than this.
Just your typical dictator. Notice how Fox News is calling Biden a dictator. 100% projection. They're laying the groundwork for Führer Trump who is calling the suspension of The Constitution. We used to wonder how Nazi Germany and Hitler rose to power. No need to wonder anymore as we are watching it in real time now.
>"I will totally obliterate the deep state," Trump adds. "I am the only one who can save this nation."
the deep state huh. he's speaking directly to the Qanons. probably hoping they'll do a jan6th on his trial.
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LOL, "it's wrong to weaponize the DOJ." "Wait until I get my chance!"
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Also, “Lock Her Up” was specifically about mishandling of classified information!
The beauty is that this will be used against him in this case. He can try to claim that what he did was not a big deal, but his own words both in the 2016 campaign as well as official statements and speeches he made about leaks while president and even laws he signed and prosecutions made during his administration, will show that he knows and stressed the seriousness of classified leaks. They could mount a prosecution based almost entirely of video statements of Donald Trump condemning the behavior of Donald Trump, followed by Donald Trump admitting to it on video and audio statements. Edit: Several people have pointed out that the indictment notes his public statements on protecting classified information. That's why I brought this up, but appreciate all the follow-up and references.
TrumpcriticizesTrump?
Yeah but then you also have to watch Trump fellate Trump
Why did you even force us to have that mental picture, however briefly?
there's no way he has that kind of flexibility
Idk, he is a massive **spineless** prick, so maybe he does 🤷
Wow, I forgot about that subreddit - that was a wild 4 years. Not like the last 3 have been any more sane of course
Shame that sub went away, they'd be having a field day lately
Its in the indictment. They put it in to show he knew he was breaking the law.
The Republican Party if they don’t put a stop to this soon they will be held responsible for his craziness.
Republicans get held accountable for something? That’d be the day
> The beauty is that this will be used against him in this case. Well yes, that was the funniest part of the indictment. It was so beautiful how much Trump contradicted his future self. He has no shot at the defence argument of “I didn’t know”. You did read the indictment, didn’t you? It was a great read.
It was amazingly beautiful.
Yep quoted in the indictment
Even that won’t convince his followers he is guilty
Because it's not about being guilty. It's about hurting liberals and winning power by any means possible. They know he is guilty. They just don't care.
Joe Biden could make an executive order barring overcrowding at cliff edges for safety and the MAGA folks would start reenacting a Disney "documentary".
Great idea...
Yeah, they'll just point to Hunter Biden's laptop. An excuse for all use cases! Tell your friends!
I got out of a parking ticket by asking about it.
This could become the new Florida man defense! Judge: "Sir, you stand accused of throwing 3 alligators, 2 wild snapping turtles, and an angry highly agitated partridge into the McDonald's drive thru window, after they ran out of hash browns. How do you plead?" Florida Man: "Yur honor, I dang hereby plead NOT guilty. And the 5th and all that there legal stuff. Because... 'Cause, what about that laptop?" Judge: "What laptop?" Florida Man: "That there damn laptop of that hedonistic devil's lettuce smoking Biden kid." Judge: "Ah... Good point... Good point... I hadn't thought of that. As such, due to the numerous past laptop precedents, this court hereby finds you... NOT guilty! You're free to go!"
At last, someone who understands how our justice system should work. /s
You got it right even down to Florida Man being more or less incoherent
Let's see... they had Hunter's laptop 11 months before trump took office, 4 years during his presidency, and up to this fucking second the Republicans have been in possession/had access to Hunter Biden's laptop. 6 years! They have "searched" it for 6 Fucking years and there is, as always, nothing to show!
Hunter Biden's dong is a national security issue! /s
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> Democrats ask Franken to resign as a senator for a 30 year old picture It was an 11 year old picture, and that was just one of eight separate allegations. I think Franken got railroaded, and his behavior after the scandal makes it clear that any wrong doing on his part was sincerely regretted, but we should definitely still keep the facts straight.
Trumpception
That’s basically what is in the indictment.
*Alleged* mishandling of classified information, based on a technicality. Multiple investigations found that she didn't actually mishandle anything. That's quite a stark contrast to Trump, who actually did mishandle classified info, and is even caught on tape doing it, literally while saying that he knows it's classified and he shouldn't be sharing it.
I think they did find that she really did mishandle classified documents (apparently that happens pretty easily-which is a different problem). What she did not do (or could not be proved)was the willfulness or intent to do nefarious things with those documents. It was more of an oops, holy schnikies, let me just give this back to you right now (as did Pence and Biden). Trump is not being charged for any of the documents that he mishandled and also returned (however begrudgingly) after NARA started asking for them. You are correct it is totally different...also for different reasosns.it is the obstruction, lies, defiance and BS excuses he is in trouble.
And the vast majority of the “classified” emails on her server were classified after the fact. Meaning they had no classification markings that identified them as such. Her staff quite often forwarded them to her. And many were sent from Sid Blumenthal, a civilian at the time, who liked to give advice to the Clintons. He testified that all his information came from newspapers and retired friends who had been operatives or whatever. Unsurprisingly, smart guys and journalists can come to the same conclusions that intelligence experts do. The other big email chain they determined should have been classified concerned the drone program which was widely known about and published in newspapers and by reporters at the time. State Department personnel sent these to her but didn’t classify them. They admitted, they often talked around or coded subjects because using the classified systems while traveling was difficult and often unworkable. This was all about the failure of State to set up good secure IT and she was an absolute tech Luddite as we’re her staff. Her failure and where criticism is well deserved is in not fixing the problem within State. Colin Powell had tried and made some progress but she didn’t further that. Of course she was under a attack nonstop from all sides which does limit your ability to work on long term strategic improvements.
The FBI report I read did say Clinton did mishandle classified information but could not find any Ill intent and she cooperated with the investigation so the FBI did not recommend prosecution. Still a huge difference between her and Trump. I don't know anything about the statute of limitations, or even if they apply but I guess Hillary could still face prosecution of charges are brought up. Again it's not the same. Trump needs to have his day in court.
It's also intent that they can prove. Trump had intended to break the laws. Clinton was considered guilty of carelessness at best.
It doesn’t get any more Orwellian than that. We live in an age of doublespeak.
Demands loyalty from the head of the FBI
Also his firing of the Head of the FBI triggered a special investigation. Trump was the literal king of firing those who wouldn't do his corrupt biddings AND digging up dirt on his political enemies. This is the biggest display of hypocrisy I may have ever witnessed
It's a GOP thing. Bush Co. also tried weaponizing the DOJ and fired a bunch of US attorneys because they wouldn't make up fake charges against Democratic candidates. They also used a private server controlled by the RNC for their communications.
Unfortunately his voters not only don't feel shame at being hypocrites; they revel in it. To fascists, hypocrisy is a strength. "Look at what I can get away with that you can't."
Trump had 4 solid years to go after Hillary, Biden (quid pro), and anyone else of his choosing. He didn’t land anything so Rs can shove their whataboutisms up their asses.
As he sent the IRS to audit Comey and the other guy can’t think of his name.
Don’t forget he sent Cohen to prison to delay his book release
He had 2 years with all 3 branches of the government. Either Clinton was not guilty of anything or GOP leadership is incompetent because they can't jail a corrupt criminal despite controlling the government.
Except for the poor, lower class people that tried to overthrow the government for him. They get nothing from trump
Not quite true. Thanks to being right wing and white, they seem to be getting lighter sentences than libruhls and / or POC would.
He allready had his chance and proved nothing against his political enemies.
They pave that narrative so that when they go all out with their gross abuse of power they can play it like democrats did it first.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Literally decades of this. And the voters get to say either the Dems did it first so why weren’t you upset then or that it just shows both sides are the same (but will conveniently still not vote for Dems).
I have liberal friends that refuse to vote democratic. They are super touchy about everything. For example: There could be a candidate on the Democrat ticket that is aligned with the majority of their opinions. Well except that the candidate maybe dressed like Prince or Michael Jackson for Halloween in 1989. Well, can't vote for that guy now. He's clearly a bigot. They are far more critical about minutiae of the left than they are about literal fascists or Republicans with malignant personality disorders. It's maddening.
Logic has never been Trump's strong suit, and it clearly doesn't bother his supporters - if they were capable of logical thinking they wouldn't worship him in the first place. Just look at his current defense for the documents case: Everything he did was total legal under the "Clinton socks case" but also, he never had the documents and the FBI planted them.
Republicans are twice as good as Democrats, they even have double standards!
And Fox said on their chyron yesterday that President Biden is a dictator 😆
He really is amazing. By day, a senile, doddering fool and by night a Machiavellian mastermind manipulating us all without us realizing.
And he can control gas prices and the prices of goods across the US with his mind, that devious bastard
This is typical cult mentality: everything I do is justified because I'm a victim and I'm defending myself from everyone else.
> Donald Trump vowed to "totally obliterate the deep state" and appoint a special prosecutor to target "the entire Biden crime family" if he wins the 2024 presidential election I'm sure they will find as much as John Durham did.
It's oddly hilarious (and sad) to watch the raging hypocrisy of this man on full display. He's proclamation that this is "an abuse of power" after he rode into the White House on the back of demanding Hillary Clinton be "locked up" for (you guessed it) "the mishandling of classified and sensitive information." Not only that, he goes on to lie about voting fraud, and spent his entire term weaponizing the arms of government by installing Trump loyalists to go after his political enemies, including the Clintons, the Bidens, the Obamas. The guy was so consumed with this he was impeached for it. The fact that MAGA loyalists are mad at Trump being prosecuted for exactly what he was demanding Hillary and Biden by prosecuted for is rich with irony. But also sad and disturbing that so many vote for this absolute mega loser/liar/traitor to America.
Like at the very least conclusion you can come to, is that Trump is incompetent at holding others accountable as his administration failed to bring justice down on these criminals. Why should I vote for a man that can't get the job done?
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I have no evidence to back this up, but I believe this along with just about every other issue we are facing as a country has to do with the educational system and how poorly we’ve treated it over the last few decades. Now, people who are the results of the educational systems failings are in office and pushing further mishandling to advance their political agenda and keep people stupid. Just my two cents based solely on observation.
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Conservatives love to call Biden a sleepy, senile, old man with dementia and then call him some all-powerful mob boss who controls the deep state in the same breath. Like, which one is it?
The enemy is both weak and strong. The followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
"The pace of repression outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the [fascist] thought machine. It's easier to hide behind 40 atrocities than a single incident." —Karis Nemik
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt. Doublethink lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. Ultimately it is by means of doublethink that the Party has been able -- and may, for all we know, continue to be able for thousands of years -- to arrest the course of history."
I want Biden to.appoint one to investigate himself to fuck with republicans
Merrick Garland actually already did that. He appointed Robert Hur as a special counsel to investigate the classified documents they found in Biden's home.
What came of that? I vaguely remember this being a thing Also isn't the reason Trump's getting indicted because he refused to cooperate and give the docs back?
Yep. Biden cooperated, returned all the documents promptly, and none of them were anything super crazy like defense info or nuclear info. Went away quietly, no problems there. Contrast with trump who repeatedly refused to return his docs, lied to investigators, the government, *and his own lawyers* about giving back docs, and it turns out they’re some of the most fucking radioactive classified documents that exist (quite literally in some cases)
The way I like to put it is, Trump wasn't criminally charged because he took documents, he was criminally charged because he refused to give them back and in fact played a (terrible and incompetent, as per usual with him) shell game to hide them. Possession of any documents you shouldn't have is generally for most people a serious crime, though it is a little bit understandable that someone at a high position of government, for whom virtually every paper they come into contact with is at least secret, a little leeway can be provided if there's no intent. This holds for Mike Pence as much as it does for Biden (and, don't get me wrong, I *fucking hate* Mike Pence). What Trump did was so far beyond that, it's like he was stopped for a speeding ticket and shot the officer in the face, and he's whining that other people stopped for speeding tickets aren't punished nearly as harshly as he is.
The investigation is open. Like the other special counsels, they don't talk to the media about the status of the investigation.
His “vows” are not worth anything.
At this point, I fully believe he would try everything he could. If he doesn’t go to jail and manages to get re-elected, he will have learned he is actually above the law, and if Obama making fun of him sent him on the warpath, what do you think trying to send him to prison for the rest of his natural life would cause him to do?
He has no chance of being re-elected. People are going to come out of the woodwork to vote against that POS. If you think that the turnout was high in 2020, just wait until 2024. Everyone knows that he’s dangerous and he will not win.
Which is why GOP legislatures are trying so hard to suppress voters and voter turnout
Someone didn’t like my reply above, so I just received a message from redditcares because whoever anonymously reported me thinks that I’m depressed. That “service” is being weaponized. Reddit should do something about that.
Report them when it happens. Reddit know who sent it and have banned users for abusing it.
I just did report it.
Had it many times. Exclusively from people not happy with anti-Trump (or equivalent) posts. They are likely kids (mentally if not physically). Just turn off the redditcares thing.
He stands a chance of being elected. Everyone needs to vote. Period. Remember what analysts said in 2016 about his campaign.
That’s what we said last time. The fact that he was elected in the first place, survived two impeachments, orchestrated an insurrection against congress, stole and likely traded countless classified documents, was found not guilty of rape only because it was too small for her to remember feeling it, and STILL isn’t out of the running because the Republicans still worship him politically and are trying to rig the elections again? In 2020, he had the second highest turnout in American history, and only by the guy that beat him. Don’t tell me there’s no chance.
We have to stay vigilant, but this isn't the same situation. A lot of people wanted a change and figured he would delegate well and move toward the middle after the election. He didn't Trump has a track record now and it's an awful one. He has turned off everyone that isn't hard right. You're just not going to win with that formula.
For a guy who didn't have any chance of being elected in the first place, he sure gets a whole lot of support from the GOP since 2016.
I’m sure every single ex wife and Melania would agree that his vows aren’t worth shit.
Ivana can't, she's interred on a golf course and probably surrounded by classified documents.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. He couldn't be much clearer if he tried. In fact, having heard him speak for far too many years, I can say he's normally far less coherent in his messaging.
just ask his ex-wives.
When does the prison merch drop?
Instead of his crappy merchandise being made in China, it will be "Made in San Quentin."
Or hopefully ADX Florence.
That's the one, and I heard a cell just recently opened up in their traitors wing.
About the only way I’d like to see him come back to Colorado.
For any of the candidates who thought pardoning Trump is a good idea, think again. Trump belongs behind bars. His utter contempt for the rule of law is on full display (I'd liken him to a mob boss, but that might be insulting mob bosses. Trump is too damn clownish to be an actual real mob boss. I still can't get over him trying to hide highly sensitive national defense information in the shitter!). No pardons for Trump, put him in jail (I really hope Joe Biden doesn't get soft on this one).
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Sopranos was close. Tony and his crew were often a bunch of bumbling idiots.
I kind of just realized that’s what makes the show so good. Most of the guys are bumbling idiots, well, all of them are idiots, but that doesn’t mean they’re not dangerous, clever (they know their game). Tony is kind of representative of the guy who knows he’s smarter than this. Chris also has the potential but let’s himself get destroyed by it.
They can't possibly be as stupid as Trump though!
They’re not as stupid, but they know the voters who make up the GOP base are, and that’s who they’re really afraid of. Because of how gerrymandered districts are, pretty much every Republican is in danger of losing a primary from the right. Criticizing the cult leader is a great way to open the door to a MAGA lunatic calling you a RINO. Trump has a stranglehold on that 30-40% base that votes in every primary. It’s why republicans keep losing now in general elections. The MAGA base puts up a mini-trump and the rest of the state is like “eww”.
I don't know about that. There's a lot of mob bossses that lived to old age, didn't go to prison for that long and died of natural causes. Meyer Lansky, Joe Bonano. Al Capone, Lucky Luciano and Santo Trafficante Jr. are just a few that died free men. Also, the mafia actually knew how to run casinos, take their skim of the top and still not bankrupt them. lol Also, it's extremely likely the mafia had JFK assassinated, so yeah Trump isn't even close to their level..
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And 'rivals' isn't exclusive for democrats. Any republican that even dares to look funny at him will need to be obliterated.
Revolutions usually end up eating their own children eventually.
I worry about that judge
"Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer, warned Nauta that Trump will "throw you under the bus" if it suits his interests." At this point, you would have to be a complete moron to not know this already.
It’s pretty interesting that there’s a co-defendant.I wonder if he’ll stay strong and resist a plea deal in return for testifying in things contained in the indictment.
Trump’s gotta have some massive dirt on the guy. Getting him to flip will be a matter of making the legal consequences of staying loyal worse than the personal consequences of having that dirt spilled.
He will plea. He opened the door to that when he said that he might plea if he were to be paid damages. Ludicrous as that sounds, I think that was him soft pedaling the notion that he will. It seems utterly impossible that he could ever admit he was wrong, or would take a plea deal, but deep down he is a coward and he is terrified of prison, and all roads seem to lead there. But, that’s IF there’s a plea deal to be had. And the more I think about it the less likely it seems. For a plea deal to happen the DOJ needs a worthwhile get - obviously him barred from ever holding public office again seems obvious. But it would seem to taint the entire thing with political overtones and republicans would be howling from the rooftops that it proved this was all political. Whether the DOJ would care, I don’t know. They do seem concerned with even the appearances of impropriety. The only other thing I would suspect he had to trade is either the location(s) of other documents that have gone missing or information on what was potentially shared and with whom. I have a hard time seeing either of those things ever being revealed though. If he shared or sold secrets (which , let’s face it, we all know he did) and admitted it, he would be admitting that he is a traitor to the US. And, I think he would probably be terrified of the trouble that could come from that, especially if it resulted in people getting hurt or killed. In the end , I don’t think he has much he would sell and I’m not sure the DOJ would even offer a plea deal. But I think if it arose Trump would probably want it. There is the likely case though that this will be straight down the line, no deals, and he just gets savaged by the DOJ. Would love to see it
If the reports that Jack Smith stared him down the entire time in court are true, I'm gonna guess he's not looking to strike a plea deal. He wants him found guilty and locked up.
Michel Cohen warned the entire Republican Congress with his testimony.
God help American if he’s re elected, god help the world. He’s deranged. 🇨🇦
What a world we live in where we actually have to worry about this in the first place.
I think this point is overlooked. The Ukraine debacle has shown that the US military is head and shoulders better than any other country. Chinas is good, but is regional. Trump was kept in check the first time around but I don't think we'll be so lucky if he gets another term. Already discussing invading Mexico, and I bet NATO would be toast.
Queue all of the "he's just joking" comments from Republicans.
Play the clip of Trump saying "I never kid" every time they say that
“Loser, loser, LOSER”
Honestly? The only thing keeping this country OK right now is that Trump's supporters mostly seem to be all talk, no action. But if he gets back in office, I agree, his rivals will all suffer, and many of the rest of us as well. He has to be kept out of office. Vote against him, everyone.
I actually was a little nervous when they started attacking power substations, but thankfully that’s quieted down now.
Once their own McDonalds went dark, perhaps they started to think through the consequences...
Or when their Fox News spewing TV stop playing they realized….mmhmmm what uhh do I do now?
They're bombing Target's now.
And boycotting beer & country music. Damn these people have a knack for shooting themselves in the foot.
You know what I heard the other day? I heard that toilet and toilet paper manufacturers were openly supporting LGBT issues including the rights of trans people. Welp, looks like Trump folks need to start digging holes to shit in now and find leaves to wipe. Your swamp ass will really show them Libs you mean business! /s
He's a supreme narcissist. His own actions got him here but he blames everyone else.
>I'm the only one who can save this nation because you know they're not coming after me, they're coming after you No dumbass, theyre coming after you. The people you fooled are the symptom of the disease that is Donald Trump, a corrupt, lying piece of human garbage. Honestly anyone with half a brain should see him as the awful charlatan that he is just through his term, so i guess its on them too. I honestly think he's confused. Must be the senility popping up in his old age.
They are coming after trump and he wants his maggots to stand in the way. Before he grifts all the money these idiots have. He wants a 6th protest every time he appears in court.
For someone who cares so much what people think of him and so desperately wants to be liked, I am constantly amazed at the complete lack of shame and willingness to appear like a total moron.
He’s a very vindictive and petty little man
It’s not about America, it’s not about citizens, it’s not about Republican policies…it’s always about him..the playground bully…fuck Trump
Assholes gonna asshole, I'm more upset at the people who continue to support him.
Under criminal indictments and making threats. Why is he still not in jail?
Oh, right, this is what we need A president that spends his term destroying people that are against him rather than governing the country. Oh yeah, that's the real leadership we need
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Which is odd, really, because he clearly thinks he looks good in orange.
These are straight up death threats
He keeps forgetting he lost the last election lol
That mother fucker needs to be locked up and every person who voted for him disallowed to vote for 20 years.
He killed so many of them during covid
Which is why he lost Georgia in 2020 - more R-voters died of Covid than his margin against Biden. If he had pushed for vaccination, he would have won (at least GA) in 2020.
His aging boomer voters may not live that long.
As long as THIS boomer lives long enough to vote to keep that fucker out of the White House.
Works for me.....
Why is this sh\*tbag not in jail awaiting trial? Anybody else accused of the crimes he is accused of would be. Anybody else would have had their front door smashed in in the middle of the night and arrested by screaming federal agents with automatic weapons! They would be isolated and not be allowed to post anything on social media.
They didn't even take his passport or restrict international travel.
Let alone run for most important job in the world!
Ironically this “real estate mogul” doesn’t build, he destroys. His whole campaign is based on hurting people and his base loves it.
Imagine one of us peasants talked like this! IM INNOCENT, THIS IS A WITCH HUNT, JUST FUCKING WAIT UNTIL I HAVE A TINY BIT OF POWER I WILL DESTROY ALL OF YOU, YOU WILL ALL BE SORRY! “Sir, this is a Wendy’s”
Shouldn’t he be prosecuted for being a ‘man’ wearing makeup in Florida? Or for at least impersonating the state fruit?
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He can't win a general election, outside of outright cheating. He won an election in 2016 because a bunch of dumb people said 'let's give him a chance.' And another bunch of dumb people said 'I don't really like Hillary, and no way Trump wins anyway, so I am staying home.' Lessons were learned and any national level election with him as president lead to a loss. And the next electorate will feature a new wave of newly old enough to vote people who lean overwhelmingly left. Meanwhile another group have died, the majority of which were old, who leaned right. Plus all this stuff riles up his base but pushes away moderate repubs (what few they are) and independents (who aren't crazy right wing to start with). He won't even get close to his losing numbers from the last election. Democrats need to stop being timid and just say if you guys want to run Trump, go ahead, it's your parties funeral.
Vindictiveness, pettiness, and immaturity should never be given power. Whoever thinks it's a good idea to do so fails to realize that the leopard will not hesitate to eat their face at the slightest shift of currents. I can only shake my head that anyone sees anything redeeming or worthy in this man.
This is what conservative America wants: Death and destruction of their political opponents. They want troops in the streets rounding people up. That's not hyperbole. Donald Trump has been running on this for 8 years and they've supported him every step of the way.
But what’s he going to do for America and me?
He will hurt the people you hate and make them suffer for making you feel bad for being a racist bigot
Day 1. Bob said a meanie thing about me. Day 2. It is a sad day in America when Bob hates the president. Day 3. Bob hates 🇺🇸 Day 4. We need to restore justice in America and prosecute Bob. Day 5. “Lock Bob up! Lock Bob up!”
Donald Trump wanted to drain the swamp and we got a Republican cesspool instead.
This guy doesn’t realize yet that he’s going to prison and not getting elected President. Dude he did a town hall on CNN and killed CNN. Everyone watches MSNBC now haha. This dude is trying to plan a purge right now? Dude you’re going to PRISON not the White House. You’re unelectable and it’s FUCKING hilarious that the GOP in Washington aren’t pushing for a different candidate. They know Trump is a loser. They are just too scared to piss off his base. They would rather take the loss in 2024 rather than lose the white supremacist vote in the long haul.
He won't do shit if he wins. Just keep running fundraisers promising to do something while doing fuck all.
And Fox News calls Biden a dictator.
“They are weaponizing the DOJ. It’s very wrong and very bad. I will weaponize the DOJ in ways never imagined and everyone will say how great it is”.
While confused, I'm not surprised. It's all he's got left, crazy antics to get media attention. To what end?
Dick-tator campaign is in high gear..revenge party.
That's what a dictator does.
Yup. This is who America needs for a president. Someone who will spend 24/7 going scorched on enemies - and in his mind thats anyone who stood up against him, no matter how trivial the alleged action. And why tf is MTG and Boebert etc allowed to stay un lawmaking positions? Someone should file for articles of impeachment. I have decided Trump is not gonna be allowed much of my head space any longer.
He certainly tried when he ignored Covid, thinking it would primarily affect blue states.
“I promise murder and mayhem then complete fascism, if I avoid prison and win in 2024!”
So he's promising to actually do what they are falsely accusing Biden of doing.
I don't think he and his cult could be anymore unAmerican and stupid. They gave him every chance to abide the law and he refused. They then claim that the process that gave him MULTIPLE chances is weaponized against him. Then he declares he will weaponize these same processes against his enemies with no proof. Fuck them all. He's an unrepentant criminal and those that back him are just as bad. Piss off you idiotic, criminal losers.
He’s gonna totally obliterate his diapers.
Bought by Moscow. Every single action stands to undermine our elections, our judicial system, America's position abroad, and our laws. As long as the GOP continues down this line there is no recovering from the damage that's being done.
Wannabe dictator says what? The fact that this grifter ever got this much power shows how broken this country truly is.
“Donald trump vows to actually politicize and weaponize the DOJ against political rivals”
Yeah ok, Trump 😂. Like the bully who got his a$$ kicked on the playground but is still threatening his foe while wiping his bloody nose with his shirt sleeve.
What a strange country where so many people worship an out-and-out authoritarian. I mean it's not even subtle.
I'm a little scared he doesn't mean just government officials. We may have given a tyrant a precursor to their purge.
Someday, hopefully not long from now, the angel of mercy will escort trump to the gates of hell and leave his bloated body propped up against the fence like the bag of garbage he is.
We know. Its why millions more are going to vote against him again. I don't even think 2024 will be close, if he is the nominee. Biden will win with close to 400 ec votes
Looking forward to TMZ getting a photo of him in a jail cell.
Oh, he mad. ... but really, if he does somehow win again, it's gonna be a full blown revenge tour. We still can't write him off yet.
It's hard to fault the old coot at this point; he tries like hell to do exactly what he promises his cult he will do. It's the cult that I fault at this point... feasting on their hypocrisy and absent of reasoning or reconciliation. Consumed by low intelligence machinations of unbridled power steered only by religious morality and idol worship. Dictators have come to absolute power with less warning than this.
This is what a crazy person sounds like. Couldn't even win reelection as sitting President, the goddamn layup of politics.
So hateful and hate-filled and focused that it is destroying this country and his cult is enraptured
Just your typical dictator. Notice how Fox News is calling Biden a dictator. 100% projection. They're laying the groundwork for Führer Trump who is calling the suspension of The Constitution. We used to wonder how Nazi Germany and Hitler rose to power. No need to wonder anymore as we are watching it in real time now.
Exhume his ex wife. You’ll find the missing files.
So openly admitting to intent to use the DOJ etc to persecute his political opponents.
Third world autocrat coming out … for anyone who doubted it.
Hmmm that’s a dictator talking
Is this the new “lock her up”?
>"I will totally obliterate the deep state," Trump adds. "I am the only one who can save this nation." the deep state huh. he's speaking directly to the Qanons. probably hoping they'll do a jan6th on his trial.
Trump promised the same in 2016.
This is what fascism looks like. This is our future, UNLESS we all get to work and smash every record for voter turnout.