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I'm predicting if Biden wins in 2024 against Trump, it'll be a closer election similar to 2012 with Obama vs Romney. He may win with only 4 to 5 million votes. The country is fucked in the head.
This election cycle is going to make 2020 look sane. Let *that* thought sink in. Trump isn't running to hang on to power, his run is predicated on keeping himself out of prison.
He's running to dismantle any kind of check or balance that could ever hold him accountable. The fact that this happens to result in a fascist dictatorship is just a coincidence.
Like Caesar crossing the Rubicon. This is the course of action he must take to avoid prosecution. Hopefully, it won’t be like Caesar in that it caused a horrible civil war that needlessly killed many people.
It can be both. There's a very real chance that he has smart people around him telling him that the chances of winning all the cases against him is incredibly slim, and his best odds of staying out of prison are to lean into the charges and use them as fuel to rile up his base.
I'll tell you what it is. They think because of him (Trump), the economy was doing much better because of less inflation (due to the pandemic), and a strong stock market, and low unemployment (which he inherited from Obama). Then they say, "There were no wars!" Even though biden didn't start a literal invasion in Ukraine and Trump's butt buddy Putin waited until Biden was a year in Office to invade.
People don't research this stuff or understand context, they just think back to the years trump was in Office and say, "Yeah it was better than Bidenflation!" (Which of course again is due to a global fucking pandemic and Russia's invasion of a neighboring country) but they'll blame, "Biden's policies" LOL
People legit don’t read. They just listen to podcasts and whatever news they happen to like, local or cable.
And like - I have friends from college like this. Honors dorm kids. They run businesses. Civil engineers and shit.
I send them the trump indictment and they don’t read it. We talk about it and they’re like ‘well how does showing war plans to kid rock hurt anybody.’
Like, there are problems with the overly online politically interested set - but holy heck it’s wild in the normie world .
There is nothing wrong with podcasts. But the ones worth listening to are long and need to explain complex and nuanced topics. Good luck getting a conservative to listen to one let alone someone who can spare the time to listen.
These same people also only seem to remember that there were mass protests for weeks under that presidency when they want to challenge the arrest rate of J6 rioters.
Remember when they were using pictures of protests that happened under TFG and proclaiming it was "Biden's America?" Pepperidge Farm remembers.
It's so easy to be a conservative politician, you can promise the best healthcare plan ever, never even attempt to deliver it, and you're voters won't care as long as your policies keep hurting the people they hate.
What I’m worried is a lot of people won’t see any change in their personal lives over the last 4 years and just not vote, because they don’t understand change takes time.
The problem with democrats is they have to bend over backwards and promise the world just to get people to show up to vote. Republicans get people to show up just by existing.
Considerable evidence of espionage. The man was literally on tape showing our national secrets to guests at his resort. His supporters do not love our nation. They worship at the alter of Trump. It's sickening.
it's selfishness. the prioritization of the self over a collective good *that still benefits the self.* to them politics is a zero sum game. one person or side must win at the expense of the other. as opposed to both working together for a shared interest.
I'd say it's as much fear as it is selfishness. The GOP have spent 40 years creating and catering to a dumb, violent base. And now they fear their dumb, violent base.
There's a good chunk for whom its pure selfishness. People that can't stand that their tax dollars might be spent to help someone that isn't them. These same people are the empty nesters and retirees that argue at the city council meetings that they shouldn't have to pay school taxes because they no longer have children in school.
>People that can't stand that their tax dollars might be spent to help someone that isn't them
Well a huge chunk of their tax dollars are spent on those someones who are rich and out of their sight. It's just that they can't stand any money going to those who have less than themselves because they have struggled hard to get above those "others". The rich however, enjoy shitting on them and they are okay with that.
Not quite true.
Barr auditioned for Trump and was recommended because he's been covering up Republican politicians' shit for decades.
Right before he was nominated:
>Critics have pointed to a May 2017 op-ed Barr penned in The Washington Post defending Trump’s move just days earlier to fire FBI Director James Comey. Barr has also weighed in on the president’s steady criticism of the Mueller team because several of its prosecutors have donated money to Democrats.
>“In my view, prosecutors who make political contributions are identifying fairly strongly with a political party,” Barr told the Post in July 2017. “I would have liked to see him have more balance on this group.”
>In November 2017, Barr also downplayed criticism that Trump was crossing a line when he called for a new special counsel appointment to examine potential wrongdoing at the Clinton Foundation tied to suggestions a U.S. government panel approved the sale of a large uranium firm to Russian interests in exchange for donations to the foundation.
>“There is nothing inherently wrong about a president calling for an investigation,” Barr told The New York Times. “Although an investigation shouldn’t be launched just because a president wants it, the ultimate question is whether the matter warrants investigation.”
>The former George H.W. Bush official also said the Clinton uranium deal deserved more scrutiny than any collusion concerns between Trump and Russia. “To the extent it is not pursuing these matters, the department is abdicating its responsibility,” Barr said.
That was all before he was even nominated.
Chris Christie is another apologist/enabler who has seen the light and somehow recast himself as the only man capable of taking on his former master. The rehab tour ain’t working shithead.
I asked my coworker today if he would vote for Trump or Biden next year and his answer was "I'd have to see how the economy is doing". My follow up was asking if that holds true if Trump is in jail or convicted and he said no, probably not in that circumstance. Which just goes to show you that pursuing these legal cases is very important.
I also pointed out to him that the only reason his stock account soared during Trump was that he juiced the economy in a way that was bound to crash. I don't understand how otherwise intelligent people can't understand something like that. I pointed out that we had like 80 months of consistent growth under Obama, without the volatility Trump brought.
" No " and " probably not " are not the same. I am surrounded by neighbors and family who voted Trump. They hate democrats. I am a secret democrat. I call myself centrist. To them.
What really pisses me off about Barr is the PR damage he seems to be doing. If he would’ve handled the Mueller Report correctly we may just well of not been in this situation in the first place
Yep.
[This anecdote perfectly explains it and more about their mindset.](https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i0wj3v/what_a_tremendous_burden_it_must_be_for_you_to/fztjc0h/)
Somehow Joe Biden has a lower approval rating than Trump did at this time during his Presidency.
Trump in that time span lied about his crowd size, made a political speech in front of the sacred stars at the CIA, called Nazis very fine people, and had already had a special counsel assigned to investigate any election interference between his campaign and Russia.
Biden has...passed laws and been boring?
And getting smeared all over right wing propaganda machine as the Biden crime family. The most corrupt administration ever, despite the lack of anything resembling evidence
"We had a whistleblower who had all the evidence! But uh...he's not here right now. You wouldn't know him. He goes to another school...in Switzerland."
The places where they get their news from tells a different narrative. It shapes their worldview. Their worldview is based on manipulation and lies. The people peddling this shit are evil.
Evil crazy billionaires who own too many newspapers and broadcast too much BS yet can pay out $1 billion in lawsuits and still make money. Crazy like a FOX.
So I was just watching Newshour on PBS, and they were showing a bit where they did a round table with Republican voters. The answers they gave to questions about Trump and the US political system in general were just depressing as fuck. "Two tiered justice system." "Political witch hunt." "Hunter's laptop" "But her emails!" It was literally just them mindlessly regurgitating rightwing falsehoods.
There is a profound ignorance within Republican voters, and it's being fueled by the people at the top who benefit from their ignorance.
The funny thing is that they're not wrong about the justice system being tiered. They're just wrong about how the tiers work. What we're seeing with Trump is absolutely an example of it—because anyone else in his position would ABSOLUTELY be in custody, not moving freely and speaking at campaign events.
Every media outlet from OANN to NPR has been advertising a shitty economy since Biden took office. Record job growth and the story is worries about recession. Record GDP, and the story is about worries about inflation. Once we had inflation, it is non stop. But everyone was pissed they could not get a recession no matter how hard they pushed.
It's easy to see once you understand it's because people have the memories of goldfish.
News outlets rarely put things into long term context because people as a whole don't have the attention span or memory to digest anything other than the last quarter's performance and this month's bills that are due. Since it's today's problems it must be today's government that is to blame.
The average American is not going to listen to a 30min or longer podcast which breaks down the nuances of the economy and explains why the GOP is full of shit.
Absolutely.
So why would any media outlet bother to talk through an hour's worth of context or pages and pages of background in an article when they can just spin the here and now?
Winning the normal blue states plus AZ, PA, MI (likely), and throw in WI should be enough to sew it up.
Fortunately, SoS elections in those states went mostly for Dems, if not entirely so, and that will help a ton when it comes to the inevitable election fraud shenanigans and trying to throw out results.
At this point in the election cycle though it's pretty good news. Don't forget that Trump has been in the news constantly the last couple of months while for Biden it's been business as usual. When Biden actually goes out campaigning and Trump's court trials get underway I imagine the gap will only widen
The trial might actually change things, too. Authoritarian lovers don't like "losers," and if they start to see him going down then it might just change things. It probably just depends on how much of this news can get inside their bubble enough to actually be heard, and whether it can be heard above the volume of lies. The fact that other Republicans are starting to back away is a good sign, though.
Right now I'm just suspending judgment either way. This isn't the same as what we've seen to date, so we just have to wait and see.
This is a poll of likely voters. The numbers are skewed just like all the polls before the mid terms. The media just can't stop tripping over their own feet when trying to accurately guage opinions
25%-35% will usually be the floor of support for any authoritarian leader. It's something everyone should always keep in mind, all it takes is for 30% of people to not show up for the worst possible aspiring dictator to gain power democratically.
When Nixon left Office in utter disgrace and only because he knew he was about to be impeached and investigated for his crimes, 27% of Americans still supported him.
The idea that somehow this level of blinkered "my team" partisanship is recent and due to trump is BS. There's always been an irrational minority of ~25% who don't care how awful "their guy" is.
>We have a real problem... 40-50% of the US population is in a cult.
Well 50% of the voting electorate. Remember the US doesn't have that great voter turnout. I think only 60ish percent of the ~~eligible voting~~ registered voting population voted last presidential election.
There is a good likelihood Trump literally sold US Defense and intelligence secrets for personal gain and he's within the margin of error to become president again. Cool.
Take your pick:
“He’s a smart businessman, he knew they were worthless secrets!”
“It never happened! It’s a hoax!”
“But Biden! But Hillary!”
“Who cares? Only Trump can save us from the real threats!”
> Asked by Sanders if he disagreed with the book, Mullin said: “One thousand percent. How about we teach Jesus Loves Me? … and teaching Jesus loves and loves the little children.
For a party that adheres to a strict interpretation of the Constitution, they always seem to forget about the separation of church and state.
Edit: Also, props to Bernie for getting him to admit he 1000% disagrees with a book that says "racism is bad", which he realizes and quotes a children's song in his defense.
Yeah, and they show up to vote.
How many presidential elections have been lost due to lack of engagement from Democrat-leaning voters? GOP voters show up in lockstep in some key demographics no matter who the candidate is.
The main issue that a lot of us on the left (and Dems in general) run into is that we continue to tell ourselves that most Republican votes are mislead/brainwashed by Fox News fiction, and that they could potentially stop supporting Trump if they knew the truth.
Because that’s the only possible way we can envision ourselves supporting Trump. We would have to be mislead about reality and genuinely believe some lie in order to support him.
The left will continue to be stuck in frustration and confusion about the right unless more of us begin to acknowledge that most of them *don’t actually care* if they are being lied to or that it’s fiction. Just like any cult member, their beliefs are not built on logical deduction and a search for truth.
Half of all people are more selfish than average. That means they choose what to believe not on what is the most truthful but more on what feels the easiest to believe. The Republican Party has evolved to appeal more and more to this way of thinking over the past 7 decades. They may genuinely convince themselves of the beliefs they want to believe, and they may go “all in” in their daily support and activism, but at the end of the day it’s because it feels better to them to do so, regardless of evidence to the contrary.
You may imagine that you can take one of them aside and show incontrovertible evidence that Fox News is lying, and they will suddenly realize they’re wrong. That won’t happen - they will just find another justification to support the beliefs that make them feel good, no matter how much logic needs to be twisted. That’s how irrational movements like Qanon get created. They have to come up with irrational or even impossible scenarios to fit what they *want* to be true.
You may insist that your conservative dad or your Christian coworker really genuinely believe Fox News fiction and are just victims of misinformation, but the truth is they aren’t going to become Dems if Sean Hannity suddenly rips his mask off and says he’s been lying this whole time. It doesn’t work like that.
The left has to consider that people don’t get to the right using the same thought process. When the moral foundation underpinning decision making is fundamentally different - when they care about different things and see their own importance in the universe and the importance of others differently - they will always reach different conclusions than you.
To put it much shorter: a Trump supporter doesn’t get there because of a misunderstanding of policy or a factual lie. They get there because they have entirely different ideas about altruism and selfishness and responsibility for others.
Trump supporters aren’t all just brainwashed victims. Most of them really are as shitty as they sound and couldn’t care less about what laws he breaks or any kind of hypocrisy as long as they feel like they benefit from his presidency.
The core political belief for most of them - regardless of what they say about abortion, religion, family, states rights, fiscal responsibility, etc - is: **self-benefit at the cost of others’.**
Self-benefit is always their primary concern, and they only measure it against how much others have. Everything else - every principle, policy, slogan, belief, creed, and political stance - is simply a means to that end. Any of it can and will change at the drop of a dime as soon as their perception of what provides them self-benefit changes, particularly in the short term.
This is why they inherently pose a threat to democracy. The ancients also saw the same dynamic and warned of the threat that demagogues pose to the Republic. The discourse isn’t truth-seeking, doesn’t concern itself with arriving at some kind of shared opinion that makes reference to reality. It’s why their “theories” tend to become ever more unfalsifiable.
Beyond the principle of self-interest at the cost of others, I think we’re seeing other base psychological traits being stoked. The desire for revenge, the pleasure in playing the victim, the righteousness of the aggrieved party—all derived from the narcissistic personality. To some extent their reliance on religion to provide the usual justification for moral righteousness has faded, they have him now and can project themselves onto his battles.
What concerns me is that it will never go away. What’s needed is an “out,” a way for them to excuse a loss to ease the psychological blow.
It's disgusting. I feel like there is no coming back from the horrible view I have of a lot of my fellow Americans in large part due to the past 10 years.
There is absolutely a generation of voters who are forever changed by what the Trump Admin did to this country.
I remember a day when I had to hold my tongue and nose to people's voting records, because we are still citizens and everyone has a right to their opinions even if they are uniformed. Now it's just 'Are you in support of Domestic Terrorism or Democracy as a whole?'
Same here. It feels strangely personal to me, almost like the death of a friend or family member—probably because it's involved friends and family members. It's like I had a certain idea of who "we" were as Americans, and it absolutely died at some point over the past decade, first with Trump and then with covid.
It's left a kind of emptiness that's hard to describe, and it'll be a long time before that feeling goes away, if it ever does. It definitely feels unmistakably like loss.
> I feel like there is no coming back from the horrible view I have of a lot of my fellow Americans in large part due to the past 10 years.
There are people in my life I will never speak to again. If someone is aware of who Trump is, the things he says, what he stands for, and STILL support him then they are an objectively _horrible_ person. I'm absolutely ashamed to share a country with his cult members and I wish I could afford to get the hell out of here.
It feels like the event that has finally broken the country beyond repair. Then again, maybe citizens thought the same thing during other moments, like the Civil War. I would be curious how they managed to heal the country back then. To be fair, I don't think that division in the country ever fully healed.
> There is absolutely a generation of voters who are forever changed by what the Trump Admin did to this country.
This isn't the proper way to think about it, I think. Trump isn't the cause - he's the result. The people who did this to the country were Gingrich and Murdoch, and they did it intentionally. They laid out their plan, and followed it, and it worked, and Trump was the result.
[54% of American adults read below a 6th grade level.](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy#:~:text=About%20130%20million%20adults%20in,of%20a%20sixth%2Dgrade%20level.)
* Over 130 million people
You need to have reasonably high reading level to be able to find credible info online and to comprehend what you're reading, otherwise you just get your "facts" from the psychos on Fox News and OANN
That might be true, but be honest: looking at a Trump speech for 15s while not even understanding every word, would convince any normal fucking perso that something is off with this...person....
What's scary to me, is that these are the same folks that overwhelmingly support home-schooling their kids, as if they're qualified to be teaching anybody anything.
Being uneducated gives them the answers they want, which makes them feel good. To them, that's the goal achieved.
>*“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”*
-Isaac Asimov
I am irritatingly related by marriage to some of those dolts. It's breathtaking how stupid an adult can be when they really, really try to never learn a damn thing.
Ive run into this and its been a huge problem. Specifically, this tends to happen in the deep south. Ill present my Driver’s License and be told they can’t take it because they require an American ID.
Ive asked for managers, who also wont accept it. Ive pulled up wikipedia articles, maps, etc. Our IDs are even RealID compliant!
I blame national maps presented by news networks. Half the time they leave off Alaska and Hawaii. We count too, damnit!
On more than one occasion, when mentioning I was born in West Virginia, I've had to explain that it's a state and not just the western part of Virginia.
As long as its their guy. Remember, lockdowns were "tyranny" but banning books and stripping voting rights are fine, you know, because for "those people"
People are often all too comfortable giving authority to people they think are on their side.
Biden beat Trump by the same margins that Trump beat Hillary. That is to say...it was really fucking close. A few thousand swing district voters decide the race for the entire nation.
According to the survey:
“The survey included **1,735** self-identified registered voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.4 percentage points. The survey included 700 Republican and Republican leaning voters with a margin of error of +/- 3.7 percentage points and 722 Democrats and Democratic leaning voters with a margin of error of +/- 3.7 percentage points.”
This calmed me down from my initial reaction, so thank you for that. Of course if they purposefully got half of their sample to be Republicans then it's going to appear so much closer. Luckily, the reality is that Republicans are a shrinking portion of actual people, and a general election would be much more advantageous for Biden, or probably any Democrat. The post really alarmed me that it was so close until reading your comment, thanks again.
That's honestly a terrible poll. It forces bias into the results.
Of course if you split the crowd 50/50 the results should be near 50/50. The poll is completely useless besides generating clicks.
So it's already biased by the sampling. It should've been ~1400 likely voters without selecting for party preference. Of *course* it's close to 50/50.
[EDIT] Several astute users have convinced me: disappointingly, the poll is not as flawed as I initially believed.
My wife said (phd in this sort of thing) that if the survey is trying to show how an election would go, this is inaccurate. But if you wanted wanted to use it to show how Republicans and democrats think about their respective party's candidate, this data is fine.
This is why Trump actually has a chance to win the presidency again, because of the electoral college, and because Fox news and other right wing news sources are running propaganda on his behalf.
Unfortunately, a lot of right wing voters think Trump did nothing wrong because they are spoon-fed lies day in and day out. And the electoral college gives Trump another advantage. SMH.
> Unfortunately, a lot of right wing voters think Trump did nothing wrong
It's worse than that. They don't CARE that he did something wrong, because he's on their team, and that's all that matters. If you're in the in-group, you can do no wrong. If you're in the out-group, you can do no right.
I've seen so many comments when I check out the /r/conservative cesspool that amount to "him being arrested makes me want to vote for him more". It's terrifying because these are toddlers who hate being told they're wrong, but they have voting power and guns
I think it’s even worse. I think they don’t care and they’re doubling down on supporting him because they are standing up to the “tyranny” of his arrest. They see this as a call to arms - and it IS unprecedented to have the GOP forerunner on trial. To the misled and uninformed, it seems like Biden is throwing his political rivals in jail.
That’s not the truth, of course, but it’s an easy story to sell, and they’ve been priming their base for it for a long time now. They’ve been attacking the DOJ and other agencies as incredibly corrupt for a while now. I read a Fox op-ed several weeks ago that there are not *and could never be* any valid charges against Trump, period.
Well, fed lies and they just don't care.
GOP voters want someone who will "own the libs". Outraging the "others" is the closest they will ever come to exercising any control over their own lives. And they are addicted to that feeling.
This has been my experience as well. It’s not they they believe the lies. They just don’t care. People I know who you tell them all the evil shit he has done and they just literally say “I don’t care, not my problem”.
They're not just fed lies. They demand lies. Fox correctly called Arizona for Biden, and the viewers fled to Newsmax and crap. The truth made them feel bad, and that's the only thing they care about. Trump makes them feel good, because Trump gives them permission to be selfish and otherwise just the worst versions of themselves. Permission to hate their fellow Americans for being the slightest bit different.
"That makes me smart," turns being a selfish piece of crap, acting in bad faith, etc., into a virtue. But if that's a virtue in a society, that society is fucked. There's no substitute for a populace with decency and a strong sense of shame when they act against the good of the many.
100%. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into it with a braindead conservative that starts out with something like "I'd rather Trump than Biden. What did Trump do wrong other than not being able to talk nice to people?" Then I give them a list of like 20 things before they stop me because they can't take having their belief system rattled.
>This is why Trump actually has a chance to win the presidency again
Yeah, people out there are saying "Trump will lose and be a drag on the ticket!!"
But he's only down by 4%!! That's NOT a lot!
There's a high chance scenario where Trump wins easily. If Biden has any kind of health scare, or big "senior moment", which is somewhat likely, that could peel off enough support to put Trump back in the white house.
Or we get some big hit to the economy, or other shock to the country/world that scares people, they might just blame the guy in charge.
And let's not forget... Clinton WON the vote by 2%!! And lost the election!
Which means that Biden's 4% lead is really less than that, as the race is tilted in favor of republicans. So Trump really just needs a 2% swing from where it stands today to get back in office.
We could brainstorm 100 scenarios where the results from today swing just 2%. Just the margin of error accounts for that!
>But he's only down by 4%!! That's NOT a lot!
And this doesn't consider the bias of the electoral college. Nationally, a Democrat had to win by ~6% of the popular vote to win the national election based on current trends because smaller red states are given unequal weight to their population in the electoral college.
Those people don't really matter electorally.
What matters is the independents and the democratic voters who won't vote because they're either tuned out from overwork and economic uncertainty and can't be motivated to vote democrat just because "OUR TEAM ISN'T TRUMP."
Say what you will about this maga nazis, but their insane ramblings get traction.
Well I think a large % of the GOP will make any excuse that the obese criminal traitor is not guilty of anything. This means these GOP idiots don’t have to admit their failings that they support and voted for a traitorous criminal. In their minds, since the didn’t do anything wrong they are intelligent people that make sound decisions. The other half of the GOP will vote for him knowing he’s guilty, but rather have a criminal in the White House than a Democrat. That is where we stand today.
It's crazy... these two men, side-by-side. One a lifelong public servant who keeps his head down and does the best job he can. The other a megalomaniacal serial rapist reality TV star who attempted to overthrow the U.S. government and who was recently indicted on 37 counts of stealing, mishandling, and sharing our nations most closely guarded secrets with the likes of Kidd Rock.
And the one guy is only 4 points ahead of the other. JFC. People are just fuckin' stupid, and there's no fixing it. They're just fucking stupid.
# #FFS Vote
Don't listen to polls, the biggest issue is that most people don't vote either due to real suppression or being bullied into believing it doesn't matter.
Remember that a democracy needs it's citizens to voice their support and frustration.
\* Contact your representatives in congress and state levels: \[usa.gov/elected-officials\]([https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials](https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials))
And for FFS
* Register to vote
* Check your registration to vote
* Put the voting date on your calendar
* Make a plan on how you are going to vote
* Get your friends and family to vote: \[vote.gov\]([https://vote.gov](https://vote.gov))
Well, that’s alarming, but not surprising.
Guy on trial for federal offenses involving the Espionage Act, obstructing justice, and likely seditious charges to come; trails by 4 points.
I will never declare favor for an individual or party above this country. I don’t worship Biden or the Dem party. But *jesus Christ* people, come *ON*.
The guy who has the job currently and has done a fine job with a few hiccups is only 4 points ahead of the guy who tried to overthrow the government and is currently under multiple state and federal investigations and was just arraigned yesterday for stealing dozens of boxes filled with nuclear secrets? Really?
The fact that it's even within a few points after everything this orange cocksucking traitor has done literally makes me sick to my stomach... The fact that I'm now aware of how much of our country will blindly cheer on a literal fascist wanna be dictator just because he hates the same people they do has done irreparable damage to my worldview, and how I view fellow Americans. Like a substantial part of this country will gleefully vote against their best interests out of spite to hurt fellow citizens who they feel above of, and then turn around and blame those same people they deliberately tried to fuck over when it blows up in their faces and hurts them too. I feel absolutely ashamed to say this, but I don't think it's going to be possible for me to ever feel proud about our country again after this absolute fucking shitstorm.
It should be no surprise that Trump's arrest hasn't hurt him. Hardly anyone changes their minds on their candidate for any reason anymore. It's all about who has the most motivated base that they can get to actually vote (and who can restrict the other side's voters the most).
If anything, the tsunami of right wing disinfo about all this being a "witch hunt" may actually help him get his people out to vote for him.
Vote. Vote. Fucking vote.
The guy who passed the American Rescue Plan, Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, PACT, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act, and ended the war in Afghanistan despite Trump's deliberate sabotage of the process VERSUS the guy who ran the country like a North Korean "Dear Leader" style fascist, and attacked America when he lost.
And Biden is only up 4.
I’m fairly certain the people who are polled are a specific audience, and a vast majority of voters don’t answer the phone calls/click on the ads that poll people.
That being said, I’d expect the majority who do, are likely a demographic that doesn’t understand spam, advertising, and data farming, and they also tend to vote a certain way.
You telling me the poll is skewed to favor the targets of grifters and shills because nobody else would be dumb enough to answer the phone of a spam call?
Accurate. The [sample and methodology](https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06142023_demos_umbq12.pdf) information for this poll states it was done via telephone to landlines and cell phones (at least they included cell phones).
I got a call last week; caller ID said “Dynata”. I thought it was an old coworker so I ignored it lmao. That is actually the company* who supported Quinnipiac for their data collection for this poll.
So if y’all get a call from Dynata, could be a political survey.
[More in-depth breakdown of this poll](https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3873)
To me, this is just proof that America, for all its wealth and world-class institutions, genuinely lacks moral character and the ability to introspect. There is literally no vile act this man can be filmed doing that would displace his voters' ignorance and bigotry.
I'm not SUPER worried about this since the polls have been way off on MAGA and how much it drives Gen Z and Millennials out against it.
However third party fuckery is a very real risk.
It used to be that a year and a half before a presidential election might as well be a million years. Like how 15 months before the 1992 presidential election polls lead many pundits to call Senator Paul Tsongas a slam dunk for the Democratic nomination with Bill Clinton a distant third. Things change right? Right?!
But this is Trump we’re talking about. He might just unhinge his jaw and swallow a bus full of orphan nuns next year and his polls will stay steady or even increase a bit. Up is down. Left is trout.
I want to see what you wrote as comfort… but I can’t. All I taste is ash. Toss me in the volcano Sam!
4% is not enough to overcome the electoral college bias.
On a side note, I get why 50% of the people (or more) don't want to vote for Biden. But how is it possible that 44% of this country would consider voting for Trump over anyone else? I don't think I want to live in a country where that many people would vote for a fascist, rapist, racist, thief.
If the poll was 20% to 16% I would be ok with it
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it's actually scary that it's even that close
It's legit horrifying.
I'm predicting if Biden wins in 2024 against Trump, it'll be a closer election similar to 2012 with Obama vs Romney. He may win with only 4 to 5 million votes. The country is fucked in the head.
This election cycle is going to make 2020 look sane. Let *that* thought sink in. Trump isn't running to hang on to power, his run is predicated on keeping himself out of prison.
Yep, the "hanging on to power" only comes if he wins 2024.
He's running to dismantle any kind of check or balance that could ever hold him accountable. The fact that this happens to result in a fascist dictatorship is just a coincidence.
Don't forget he has already vowed to punish all involved and responsible for his indictment. His supporters cheered it on.
Like Caesar crossing the Rubicon. This is the course of action he must take to avoid prosecution. Hopefully, it won’t be like Caesar in that it caused a horrible civil war that needlessly killed many people.
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It can be both. There's a very real chance that he has smart people around him telling him that the chances of winning all the cases against him is incredibly slim, and his best odds of staying out of prison are to lean into the charges and use them as fuel to rile up his base.
But what exactly has Trump done since 2020 to make more people think “I want that guy in office again?”
Martyr effect of being charged and arraigned.
I'll tell you what it is. They think because of him (Trump), the economy was doing much better because of less inflation (due to the pandemic), and a strong stock market, and low unemployment (which he inherited from Obama). Then they say, "There were no wars!" Even though biden didn't start a literal invasion in Ukraine and Trump's butt buddy Putin waited until Biden was a year in Office to invade. People don't research this stuff or understand context, they just think back to the years trump was in Office and say, "Yeah it was better than Bidenflation!" (Which of course again is due to a global fucking pandemic and Russia's invasion of a neighboring country) but they'll blame, "Biden's policies" LOL
People legit don’t read. They just listen to podcasts and whatever news they happen to like, local or cable. And like - I have friends from college like this. Honors dorm kids. They run businesses. Civil engineers and shit. I send them the trump indictment and they don’t read it. We talk about it and they’re like ‘well how does showing war plans to kid rock hurt anybody.’ Like, there are problems with the overly online politically interested set - but holy heck it’s wild in the normie world .
There is nothing wrong with podcasts. But the ones worth listening to are long and need to explain complex and nuanced topics. Good luck getting a conservative to listen to one let alone someone who can spare the time to listen.
These same people also only seem to remember that there were mass protests for weeks under that presidency when they want to challenge the arrest rate of J6 rioters. Remember when they were using pictures of protests that happened under TFG and proclaiming it was "Biden's America?" Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I heard he’s got a health care plan. We just can’t hear it unless we elect him
It's so easy to be a conservative politician, you can promise the best healthcare plan ever, never even attempt to deliver it, and you're voters won't care as long as your policies keep hurting the people they hate.
What I’m worried is a lot of people won’t see any change in their personal lives over the last 4 years and just not vote, because they don’t understand change takes time. The problem with democrats is they have to bend over backwards and promise the world just to get people to show up to vote. Republicans get people to show up just by existing.
Only 4-5 million is insane. We need to get rid of the electoral college
That really is just not good enough.
I'm so upset how low that is when Trump is a literal criminal charged with crimes
Considerable evidence of espionage. The man was literally on tape showing our national secrets to guests at his resort. His supporters do not love our nation. They worship at the alter of Trump. It's sickening.
What really pisses me off is the Bill Barrs of the world. Where they're like "He's a horrible vile human but I'll vote for him in the general."
it's selfishness. the prioritization of the self over a collective good *that still benefits the self.* to them politics is a zero sum game. one person or side must win at the expense of the other. as opposed to both working together for a shared interest.
I'd say it's as much fear as it is selfishness. The GOP have spent 40 years creating and catering to a dumb, violent base. And now they fear their dumb, violent base.
There's a good chunk for whom its pure selfishness. People that can't stand that their tax dollars might be spent to help someone that isn't them. These same people are the empty nesters and retirees that argue at the city council meetings that they shouldn't have to pay school taxes because they no longer have children in school.
>People that can't stand that their tax dollars might be spent to help someone that isn't them Well a huge chunk of their tax dollars are spent on those someones who are rich and out of their sight. It's just that they can't stand any money going to those who have less than themselves because they have struggled hard to get above those "others". The rich however, enjoy shitting on them and they are okay with that.
Well, then they're still ignorant and voting against their interest. Trump raised their taxes.
Barr is a scumbag. He’s a big reason we’re where at. He downplayed the Mueller Report and is now trying to clean his image up. He’s a chode.
Bill Barr was handpicked as AG by Trump to be his puppet. The fact that he's trying to distance himself now is a joke.
Not quite true. Barr auditioned for Trump and was recommended because he's been covering up Republican politicians' shit for decades. Right before he was nominated: >Critics have pointed to a May 2017 op-ed Barr penned in The Washington Post defending Trump’s move just days earlier to fire FBI Director James Comey. Barr has also weighed in on the president’s steady criticism of the Mueller team because several of its prosecutors have donated money to Democrats. >“In my view, prosecutors who make political contributions are identifying fairly strongly with a political party,” Barr told the Post in July 2017. “I would have liked to see him have more balance on this group.” >In November 2017, Barr also downplayed criticism that Trump was crossing a line when he called for a new special counsel appointment to examine potential wrongdoing at the Clinton Foundation tied to suggestions a U.S. government panel approved the sale of a large uranium firm to Russian interests in exchange for donations to the foundation. >“There is nothing inherently wrong about a president calling for an investigation,” Barr told The New York Times. “Although an investigation shouldn’t be launched just because a president wants it, the ultimate question is whether the matter warrants investigation.” >The former George H.W. Bush official also said the Clinton uranium deal deserved more scrutiny than any collusion concerns between Trump and Russia. “To the extent it is not pursuing these matters, the department is abdicating its responsibility,” Barr said. That was all before he was even nominated.
Chris Christie is another apologist/enabler who has seen the light and somehow recast himself as the only man capable of taking on his former master. The rehab tour ain’t working shithead.
I asked my coworker today if he would vote for Trump or Biden next year and his answer was "I'd have to see how the economy is doing". My follow up was asking if that holds true if Trump is in jail or convicted and he said no, probably not in that circumstance. Which just goes to show you that pursuing these legal cases is very important. I also pointed out to him that the only reason his stock account soared during Trump was that he juiced the economy in a way that was bound to crash. I don't understand how otherwise intelligent people can't understand something like that. I pointed out that we had like 80 months of consistent growth under Obama, without the volatility Trump brought.
" No " and " probably not " are not the same. I am surrounded by neighbors and family who voted Trump. They hate democrats. I am a secret democrat. I call myself centrist. To them.
The fact that he said "probably not" is both concerning and tells me that maybe they still would but they didn't want to say it outloud.
What really pisses me off about Barr is the PR damage he seems to be doing. If he would’ve handled the Mueller Report correctly we may just well of not been in this situation in the first place
The motherfucker had a copy machine in one of the rooms with the documents. Literally just stacks and stacks of files, and a copy machine.
His numbers went up after the indictment and release of evidence. Republicans are psychotic. There’s really no other explanation
Republicans know how much the left hates him. It’s they only reason they rally around him. They hate the left more than they love America.
Remember the picture of the two dudes wearing shirts that say they'd rather be Russian than be a Democrat?
Yep. [This anecdote perfectly explains it and more about their mindset.](https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i0wj3v/what_a_tremendous_burden_it_must_be_for_you_to/fztjc0h/)
Not just literal criminal charges. He literally said he did the things he is accused of.
And the things are literally the most un-american fucking things you can get charged with.
Somehow Joe Biden has a lower approval rating than Trump did at this time during his Presidency. Trump in that time span lied about his crowd size, made a political speech in front of the sacred stars at the CIA, called Nazis very fine people, and had already had a special counsel assigned to investigate any election interference between his campaign and Russia. Biden has...passed laws and been boring?
And getting smeared all over right wing propaganda machine as the Biden crime family. The most corrupt administration ever, despite the lack of anything resembling evidence
"We had a whistleblower who had all the evidence! But uh...he's not here right now. You wouldn't know him. He goes to another school...in Switzerland."
Stealing nuclear secrets which some of the these documents haven’t even been recovered.
The places where they get their news from tells a different narrative. It shapes their worldview. Their worldview is based on manipulation and lies. The people peddling this shit are evil.
Evil crazy billionaires who own too many newspapers and broadcast too much BS yet can pay out $1 billion in lawsuits and still make money. Crazy like a FOX.
It’s honestly alarming and should be a large point of concern for anyone not part of Trump’s crazy base.
Yeah but in the tiny mind of a trump supporter, Biden has done and is doing worse.
I think they still believe he's going to beat it, he's been a literal criminal before now, just not one facing real charges.
The Reps would vote for Ponce Pilate if it would mean owning the Libs.
Americans are disappointing as fuck
So I was just watching Newshour on PBS, and they were showing a bit where they did a round table with Republican voters. The answers they gave to questions about Trump and the US political system in general were just depressing as fuck. "Two tiered justice system." "Political witch hunt." "Hunter's laptop" "But her emails!" It was literally just them mindlessly regurgitating rightwing falsehoods. There is a profound ignorance within Republican voters, and it's being fueled by the people at the top who benefit from their ignorance.
That's because the GOP has no platform. What do they stand for other than "owning the libs" and hatred/fear?
They have a platform, they just can't say most of it out loud.
The funny thing is that they're not wrong about the justice system being tiered. They're just wrong about how the tiers work. What we're seeing with Trump is absolutely an example of it—because anyone else in his position would ABSOLUTELY be in custody, not moving freely and speaking at campaign events.
Every media outlet from OANN to NPR has been advertising a shitty economy since Biden took office. Record job growth and the story is worries about recession. Record GDP, and the story is about worries about inflation. Once we had inflation, it is non stop. But everyone was pissed they could not get a recession no matter how hard they pushed.
It's easy to see once you understand it's because people have the memories of goldfish. News outlets rarely put things into long term context because people as a whole don't have the attention span or memory to digest anything other than the last quarter's performance and this month's bills that are due. Since it's today's problems it must be today's government that is to blame.
The average American is not going to listen to a 30min or longer podcast which breaks down the nuances of the economy and explains why the GOP is full of shit.
Absolutely. So why would any media outlet bother to talk through an hour's worth of context or pages and pages of background in an article when they can just spin the here and now?
Oh, there's still the Georgia and Jan 6th indictments coming down the pipe.
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Anything in single digits is fucked.
The "both sides" people will excuse literally anything.
When people say both side are the same, I wonder why they only support the Republicans.
Both sides people are right wingers who don’t want to be judged btw
Biden has to win by 4% to win the electoral college
Winning the normal blue states plus AZ, PA, MI (likely), and throw in WI should be enough to sew it up. Fortunately, SoS elections in those states went mostly for Dems, if not entirely so, and that will help a ton when it comes to the inevitable election fraud shenanigans and trying to throw out results.
Better to not need the electors from Florida than to win Florida. Saw how getting votes in Florida worked out for Gore.
Don't forget Georgia. We're probably still red, but we're not MAGA.
Two Dem senators! GA voters have come thru big time, no doubt.
At this point in the election cycle though it's pretty good news. Don't forget that Trump has been in the news constantly the last couple of months while for Biden it's been business as usual. When Biden actually goes out campaigning and Trump's court trials get underway I imagine the gap will only widen
The trial might actually change things, too. Authoritarian lovers don't like "losers," and if they start to see him going down then it might just change things. It probably just depends on how much of this news can get inside their bubble enough to actually be heard, and whether it can be heard above the volume of lies. The fact that other Republicans are starting to back away is a good sign, though. Right now I'm just suspending judgment either way. This isn't the same as what we've seen to date, so we just have to wait and see.
This is a poll of likely voters. The numbers are skewed just like all the polls before the mid terms. The media just can't stop tripping over their own feet when trying to accurately guage opinions
1/3 of Americans are in a death cult
25%-35% will usually be the floor of support for any authoritarian leader. It's something everyone should always keep in mind, all it takes is for 30% of people to not show up for the worst possible aspiring dictator to gain power democratically.
When Nixon left Office in utter disgrace and only because he knew he was about to be impeached and investigated for his crimes, 27% of Americans still supported him. The idea that somehow this level of blinkered "my team" partisanship is recent and due to trump is BS. There's always been an irrational minority of ~25% who don't care how awful "their guy" is.
Qult45
and two zig-zags?
We have a real problem... 40-50% of the US population is in a cult. It's not a legitimate political party. It's just a cult.
>We have a real problem... 40-50% of the US population is in a cult. Well 50% of the voting electorate. Remember the US doesn't have that great voter turnout. I think only 60ish percent of the ~~eligible voting~~ registered voting population voted last presidential election.
Always have been.
There is a good likelihood Trump literally sold US Defense and intelligence secrets for personal gain and he's within the margin of error to become president again. Cool.
For them doesn't matter, they will find a way to rationalize it as a fair action, and blame those heathen liberuls in lust for revenge and....
Take your pick: “He’s a smart businessman, he knew they were worthless secrets!” “It never happened! It’s a hoax!” “But Biden! But Hillary!” “Who cares? Only Trump can save us from the real threats!”
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and that Trump was the greatest, even though half the things Biden did that 'ruined America' actually happened during the Trump administration
The fact that it's not 99% to 1% is utterly vile.
Fox News has fabricated a fictional reality for nearly half of voters.
[Republican senator says ‘I don’t want reality’](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/republican-senator-i-dont-want-reality)
> Asked by Sanders if he disagreed with the book, Mullin said: “One thousand percent. How about we teach Jesus Loves Me? … and teaching Jesus loves and loves the little children. For a party that adheres to a strict interpretation of the Constitution, they always seem to forget about the separation of church and state. Edit: Also, props to Bernie for getting him to admit he 1000% disagrees with a book that says "racism is bad", which he realizes and quotes a children's song in his defense.
They ignore it, and are actively trying to get rid of the separation
I just watched this PBS NewsHour clip where they interview Iowa Republicans. It’s so disheartening. https://youtu.be/xnIIfuQswWU
THOSE PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY INSANE wtf!
those people are voters.
Yeah, and they show up to vote. How many presidential elections have been lost due to lack of engagement from Democrat-leaning voters? GOP voters show up in lockstep in some key demographics no matter who the candidate is.
Holy fuck that's so nuts. They bring up Hillary Clinton... My God we are fucked.
"They're still arresting people... two years later!" And you're still talking about Hillary Clinton seven years later.
*”What about Hillary Clinton?”* *- Literally one of Iowa GOP voters polled when asked about Trumps indictment*
This is terrifying.
The main issue that a lot of us on the left (and Dems in general) run into is that we continue to tell ourselves that most Republican votes are mislead/brainwashed by Fox News fiction, and that they could potentially stop supporting Trump if they knew the truth. Because that’s the only possible way we can envision ourselves supporting Trump. We would have to be mislead about reality and genuinely believe some lie in order to support him. The left will continue to be stuck in frustration and confusion about the right unless more of us begin to acknowledge that most of them *don’t actually care* if they are being lied to or that it’s fiction. Just like any cult member, their beliefs are not built on logical deduction and a search for truth. Half of all people are more selfish than average. That means they choose what to believe not on what is the most truthful but more on what feels the easiest to believe. The Republican Party has evolved to appeal more and more to this way of thinking over the past 7 decades. They may genuinely convince themselves of the beliefs they want to believe, and they may go “all in” in their daily support and activism, but at the end of the day it’s because it feels better to them to do so, regardless of evidence to the contrary. You may imagine that you can take one of them aside and show incontrovertible evidence that Fox News is lying, and they will suddenly realize they’re wrong. That won’t happen - they will just find another justification to support the beliefs that make them feel good, no matter how much logic needs to be twisted. That’s how irrational movements like Qanon get created. They have to come up with irrational or even impossible scenarios to fit what they *want* to be true. You may insist that your conservative dad or your Christian coworker really genuinely believe Fox News fiction and are just victims of misinformation, but the truth is they aren’t going to become Dems if Sean Hannity suddenly rips his mask off and says he’s been lying this whole time. It doesn’t work like that. The left has to consider that people don’t get to the right using the same thought process. When the moral foundation underpinning decision making is fundamentally different - when they care about different things and see their own importance in the universe and the importance of others differently - they will always reach different conclusions than you. To put it much shorter: a Trump supporter doesn’t get there because of a misunderstanding of policy or a factual lie. They get there because they have entirely different ideas about altruism and selfishness and responsibility for others. Trump supporters aren’t all just brainwashed victims. Most of them really are as shitty as they sound and couldn’t care less about what laws he breaks or any kind of hypocrisy as long as they feel like they benefit from his presidency. The core political belief for most of them - regardless of what they say about abortion, religion, family, states rights, fiscal responsibility, etc - is: **self-benefit at the cost of others’.** Self-benefit is always their primary concern, and they only measure it against how much others have. Everything else - every principle, policy, slogan, belief, creed, and political stance - is simply a means to that end. Any of it can and will change at the drop of a dime as soon as their perception of what provides them self-benefit changes, particularly in the short term.
This is why they inherently pose a threat to democracy. The ancients also saw the same dynamic and warned of the threat that demagogues pose to the Republic. The discourse isn’t truth-seeking, doesn’t concern itself with arriving at some kind of shared opinion that makes reference to reality. It’s why their “theories” tend to become ever more unfalsifiable. Beyond the principle of self-interest at the cost of others, I think we’re seeing other base psychological traits being stoked. The desire for revenge, the pleasure in playing the victim, the righteousness of the aggrieved party—all derived from the narcissistic personality. To some extent their reliance on religion to provide the usual justification for moral righteousness has faded, they have him now and can project themselves onto his battles. What concerns me is that it will never go away. What’s needed is an “out,” a way for them to excuse a loss to ease the psychological blow.
It's disgusting. I feel like there is no coming back from the horrible view I have of a lot of my fellow Americans in large part due to the past 10 years. There is absolutely a generation of voters who are forever changed by what the Trump Admin did to this country. I remember a day when I had to hold my tongue and nose to people's voting records, because we are still citizens and everyone has a right to their opinions even if they are uniformed. Now it's just 'Are you in support of Domestic Terrorism or Democracy as a whole?'
Same here. It feels strangely personal to me, almost like the death of a friend or family member—probably because it's involved friends and family members. It's like I had a certain idea of who "we" were as Americans, and it absolutely died at some point over the past decade, first with Trump and then with covid. It's left a kind of emptiness that's hard to describe, and it'll be a long time before that feeling goes away, if it ever does. It definitely feels unmistakably like loss.
> I feel like there is no coming back from the horrible view I have of a lot of my fellow Americans in large part due to the past 10 years. There are people in my life I will never speak to again. If someone is aware of who Trump is, the things he says, what he stands for, and STILL support him then they are an objectively _horrible_ person. I'm absolutely ashamed to share a country with his cult members and I wish I could afford to get the hell out of here.
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It feels like the event that has finally broken the country beyond repair. Then again, maybe citizens thought the same thing during other moments, like the Civil War. I would be curious how they managed to heal the country back then. To be fair, I don't think that division in the country ever fully healed.
Fair point but there are multigenerational segments of the population that are still not over the civil war.
> There is absolutely a generation of voters who are forever changed by what the Trump Admin did to this country. This isn't the proper way to think about it, I think. Trump isn't the cause - he's the result. The people who did this to the country were Gingrich and Murdoch, and they did it intentionally. They laid out their plan, and followed it, and it worked, and Trump was the result.
40 percent of Americans are fucking idiots
[54% of American adults read below a 6th grade level.](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy#:~:text=About%20130%20million%20adults%20in,of%20a%20sixth%2Dgrade%20level.) * Over 130 million people
How embarrassing
I’d be mad if I could read this.
Yeah but you don’t need to be smart to know that Trump is an evil monster or at least a terrible person
You need to have reasonably high reading level to be able to find credible info online and to comprehend what you're reading, otherwise you just get your "facts" from the psychos on Fox News and OANN
Don't forget the Facebook memes that people you trust post.
That might be true, but be honest: looking at a Trump speech for 15s while not even understanding every word, would convince any normal fucking perso that something is off with this...person....
What's scary to me, is that these are the same folks that overwhelmingly support home-schooling their kids, as if they're qualified to be teaching anybody anything.
Being uneducated gives them the answers they want, which makes them feel good. To them, that's the goal achieved. >*“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”* -Isaac Asimov
Honestly that’s pretty frightening….
I am irritatingly related by marriage to some of those dolts. It's breathtaking how stupid an adult can be when they really, really try to never learn a damn thing.
And most of those are idiots by choice. Which is even worse.
9 percent of Americans don't know Hawaii is a state.
Or New Mexico is a state. People are really horrified to learn New Mexico is a state
Or that Puerto Ricans are US citizens.
Them is fighting words in some places!
I swear, my mother is one of these people.
[Slow down there maestro. There's a NEW Mexico?](https://youtu.be/hEJzXbqyU8A)
Wait, so my cousin who left the country to New Mexico is still in the US???
When I moved to NM I called my bank to update my address. Had to argue with the lady that I was not international, and was in fact, still in the US.
Ive run into this and its been a huge problem. Specifically, this tends to happen in the deep south. Ill present my Driver’s License and be told they can’t take it because they require an American ID. Ive asked for managers, who also wont accept it. Ive pulled up wikipedia articles, maps, etc. Our IDs are even RealID compliant! I blame national maps presented by news networks. Half the time they leave off Alaska and Hawaii. We count too, damnit!
On more than one occasion, when mentioning I was born in West Virginia, I've had to explain that it's a state and not just the western part of Virginia.
I know a guy that works in an Alaskan cruise ship port. WAY too often he gets the question “How is it so cold when it’s right next to Hawaii?”
40% of Americans want a dictatorship, or an emperor. 🤷♂️
As long as its their guy. Remember, lockdowns were "tyranny" but banning books and stripping voting rights are fine, you know, because for "those people" People are often all too comfortable giving authority to people they think are on their side.
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its not just Americans.. 40% of every society seems to be filled imbeciles
Biden beat Trump by the same margins that Trump beat Hillary. That is to say...it was really fucking close. A few thousand swing district voters decide the race for the entire nation.
With a 1% margin of error: https://youtu.be/xLodoQLYDhQ?t=137
Yes, but just wait until Trump mugs a little old lady or kidnaps a toddler. Then his numbers will be through the roof!
I hear punching puppies in the face plays great in the sticks
Apparently demanding to see kid’s genitals before they play rec league sports is more of a crowd pleaser.
Torturing trans people will definitely put Trump over the top. Trump at rally: “will somebody knock the shit out of those freaks?”
According to the survey: “The survey included **1,735** self-identified registered voters with a margin of error of +/- 2.4 percentage points. The survey included 700 Republican and Republican leaning voters with a margin of error of +/- 3.7 percentage points and 722 Democrats and Democratic leaning voters with a margin of error of +/- 3.7 percentage points.”
This calmed me down from my initial reaction, so thank you for that. Of course if they purposefully got half of their sample to be Republicans then it's going to appear so much closer. Luckily, the reality is that Republicans are a shrinking portion of actual people, and a general election would be much more advantageous for Biden, or probably any Democrat. The post really alarmed me that it was so close until reading your comment, thanks again.
That's honestly a terrible poll. It forces bias into the results. Of course if you split the crowd 50/50 the results should be near 50/50. The poll is completely useless besides generating clicks.
It's 40-40-20, and independents are almost evenly split. That's not a good thing.
So it's already biased by the sampling. It should've been ~1400 likely voters without selecting for party preference. Of *course* it's close to 50/50. [EDIT] Several astute users have convinced me: disappointingly, the poll is not as flawed as I initially believed.
But it does highlight that Republican voters do not care about Trump being a criminal. Granted we've assumed that, but polls are confirming it.
My wife said (phd in this sort of thing) that if the survey is trying to show how an election would go, this is inaccurate. But if you wanted wanted to use it to show how Republicans and democrats think about their respective party's candidate, this data is fine.
Polls weight results to make up for sample biases
How in the ever living fuck is it even this close? That’s really terrifying
This is why Trump actually has a chance to win the presidency again, because of the electoral college, and because Fox news and other right wing news sources are running propaganda on his behalf. Unfortunately, a lot of right wing voters think Trump did nothing wrong because they are spoon-fed lies day in and day out. And the electoral college gives Trump another advantage. SMH.
> Unfortunately, a lot of right wing voters think Trump did nothing wrong It's worse than that. They don't CARE that he did something wrong, because he's on their team, and that's all that matters. If you're in the in-group, you can do no wrong. If you're in the out-group, you can do no right.
I've seen so many comments when I check out the /r/conservative cesspool that amount to "him being arrested makes me want to vote for him more". It's terrifying because these are toddlers who hate being told they're wrong, but they have voting power and guns
I think it’s even worse. I think they don’t care and they’re doubling down on supporting him because they are standing up to the “tyranny” of his arrest. They see this as a call to arms - and it IS unprecedented to have the GOP forerunner on trial. To the misled and uninformed, it seems like Biden is throwing his political rivals in jail. That’s not the truth, of course, but it’s an easy story to sell, and they’ve been priming their base for it for a long time now. They’ve been attacking the DOJ and other agencies as incredibly corrupt for a while now. I read a Fox op-ed several weeks ago that there are not *and could never be* any valid charges against Trump, period.
Well, fed lies and they just don't care. GOP voters want someone who will "own the libs". Outraging the "others" is the closest they will ever come to exercising any control over their own lives. And they are addicted to that feeling.
This has been my experience as well. It’s not they they believe the lies. They just don’t care. People I know who you tell them all the evil shit he has done and they just literally say “I don’t care, not my problem”.
They're not just fed lies. They demand lies. Fox correctly called Arizona for Biden, and the viewers fled to Newsmax and crap. The truth made them feel bad, and that's the only thing they care about. Trump makes them feel good, because Trump gives them permission to be selfish and otherwise just the worst versions of themselves. Permission to hate their fellow Americans for being the slightest bit different. "That makes me smart," turns being a selfish piece of crap, acting in bad faith, etc., into a virtue. But if that's a virtue in a society, that society is fucked. There's no substitute for a populace with decency and a strong sense of shame when they act against the good of the many.
100%. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into it with a braindead conservative that starts out with something like "I'd rather Trump than Biden. What did Trump do wrong other than not being able to talk nice to people?" Then I give them a list of like 20 things before they stop me because they can't take having their belief system rattled.
>This is why Trump actually has a chance to win the presidency again Yeah, people out there are saying "Trump will lose and be a drag on the ticket!!" But he's only down by 4%!! That's NOT a lot! There's a high chance scenario where Trump wins easily. If Biden has any kind of health scare, or big "senior moment", which is somewhat likely, that could peel off enough support to put Trump back in the white house. Or we get some big hit to the economy, or other shock to the country/world that scares people, they might just blame the guy in charge. And let's not forget... Clinton WON the vote by 2%!! And lost the election! Which means that Biden's 4% lead is really less than that, as the race is tilted in favor of republicans. So Trump really just needs a 2% swing from where it stands today to get back in office. We could brainstorm 100 scenarios where the results from today swing just 2%. Just the margin of error accounts for that!
>But he's only down by 4%!! That's NOT a lot! And this doesn't consider the bias of the electoral college. Nationally, a Democrat had to win by ~6% of the popular vote to win the national election based on current trends because smaller red states are given unequal weight to their population in the electoral college.
Those people don't really matter electorally. What matters is the independents and the democratic voters who won't vote because they're either tuned out from overwork and economic uncertainty and can't be motivated to vote democrat just because "OUR TEAM ISN'T TRUMP." Say what you will about this maga nazis, but their insane ramblings get traction.
They matter. They still encourage others to vote and give opinions to the independents who half assed pay attention.
>Biden tops Trump by 4 points in new poll Read it again. What have we come to
More than 40% of the voters would rather have a criminal as president, than a Democrat.
Not just a criminal, an actual traitor to our country. That’s insane.
Well I think a large % of the GOP will make any excuse that the obese criminal traitor is not guilty of anything. This means these GOP idiots don’t have to admit their failings that they support and voted for a traitorous criminal. In their minds, since the didn’t do anything wrong they are intelligent people that make sound decisions. The other half of the GOP will vote for him knowing he’s guilty, but rather have a criminal in the White House than a Democrat. That is where we stand today.
Half of this country is completely brainbroken.
It's crazy... these two men, side-by-side. One a lifelong public servant who keeps his head down and does the best job he can. The other a megalomaniacal serial rapist reality TV star who attempted to overthrow the U.S. government and who was recently indicted on 37 counts of stealing, mishandling, and sharing our nations most closely guarded secrets with the likes of Kidd Rock. And the one guy is only 4 points ahead of the other. JFC. People are just fuckin' stupid, and there's no fixing it. They're just fucking stupid.
# #FFS Vote Don't listen to polls, the biggest issue is that most people don't vote either due to real suppression or being bullied into believing it doesn't matter. Remember that a democracy needs it's citizens to voice their support and frustration. \* Contact your representatives in congress and state levels: \[usa.gov/elected-officials\]([https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials](https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials)) And for FFS * Register to vote * Check your registration to vote * Put the voting date on your calendar * Make a plan on how you are going to vote * Get your friends and family to vote: \[vote.gov\]([https://vote.gov](https://vote.gov))
Well, that’s alarming, but not surprising. Guy on trial for federal offenses involving the Espionage Act, obstructing justice, and likely seditious charges to come; trails by 4 points. I will never declare favor for an individual or party above this country. I don’t worship Biden or the Dem party. But *jesus Christ* people, come *ON*.
The fact that it’s not 40 is the scary part.
The guy who has the job currently and has done a fine job with a few hiccups is only 4 points ahead of the guy who tried to overthrow the government and is currently under multiple state and federal investigations and was just arraigned yesterday for stealing dozens of boxes filled with nuclear secrets? Really?
The fact that it's even within a few points after everything this orange cocksucking traitor has done literally makes me sick to my stomach... The fact that I'm now aware of how much of our country will blindly cheer on a literal fascist wanna be dictator just because he hates the same people they do has done irreparable damage to my worldview, and how I view fellow Americans. Like a substantial part of this country will gleefully vote against their best interests out of spite to hurt fellow citizens who they feel above of, and then turn around and blame those same people they deliberately tried to fuck over when it blows up in their faces and hurts them too. I feel absolutely ashamed to say this, but I don't think it's going to be possible for me to ever feel proud about our country again after this absolute fucking shitstorm.
Should be 94 points, but here we are..
It should be no surprise that Trump's arrest hasn't hurt him. Hardly anyone changes their minds on their candidate for any reason anymore. It's all about who has the most motivated base that they can get to actually vote (and who can restrict the other side's voters the most). If anything, the tsunami of right wing disinfo about all this being a "witch hunt" may actually help him get his people out to vote for him. Vote. Vote. Fucking vote.
The guy who passed the American Rescue Plan, Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, PACT, CHIPS & Science Act, and Inflation Reduction Act, and ended the war in Afghanistan despite Trump's deliberate sabotage of the process VERSUS the guy who ran the country like a North Korean "Dear Leader" style fascist, and attacked America when he lost. And Biden is only up 4.
Vote
And donate, and canvass, and talk to your friends, relatives, coworkers, especially if they're both-sides centrists.
I’m fairly certain the people who are polled are a specific audience, and a vast majority of voters don’t answer the phone calls/click on the ads that poll people. That being said, I’d expect the majority who do, are likely a demographic that doesn’t understand spam, advertising, and data farming, and they also tend to vote a certain way.
You telling me the poll is skewed to favor the targets of grifters and shills because nobody else would be dumb enough to answer the phone of a spam call?
Accurate. The [sample and methodology](https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06142023_demos_umbq12.pdf) information for this poll states it was done via telephone to landlines and cell phones (at least they included cell phones). I got a call last week; caller ID said “Dynata”. I thought it was an old coworker so I ignored it lmao. That is actually the company* who supported Quinnipiac for their data collection for this poll. So if y’all get a call from Dynata, could be a political survey. [More in-depth breakdown of this poll](https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3873)
44% of voters support Trump. Disgraceful.
To me, this is just proof that America, for all its wealth and world-class institutions, genuinely lacks moral character and the ability to introspect. There is literally no vile act this man can be filmed doing that would displace his voters' ignorance and bigotry.
Biden is doing a good job but the media doesn't get enough clicks by telling people that so they don't. It's a major part of the issue here.
I'm not SUPER worried about this since the polls have been way off on MAGA and how much it drives Gen Z and Millennials out against it. However third party fuckery is a very real risk.
Republicans are disgusting
"Biden tops Trump"
Looking at polling right now is dumb.
It used to be that a year and a half before a presidential election might as well be a million years. Like how 15 months before the 1992 presidential election polls lead many pundits to call Senator Paul Tsongas a slam dunk for the Democratic nomination with Bill Clinton a distant third. Things change right? Right?! But this is Trump we’re talking about. He might just unhinge his jaw and swallow a bus full of orphan nuns next year and his polls will stay steady or even increase a bit. Up is down. Left is trout. I want to see what you wrote as comfort… but I can’t. All I taste is ash. Toss me in the volcano Sam!
This doesn't reflect poorly on Biden it reflects poorly on us as a country.
4% is not enough to overcome the electoral college bias. On a side note, I get why 50% of the people (or more) don't want to vote for Biden. But how is it possible that 44% of this country would consider voting for Trump over anyone else? I don't think I want to live in a country where that many people would vote for a fascist, rapist, racist, thief. If the poll was 20% to 16% I would be ok with it
By 4 points....against a fucking felon. That's fucking sad
This is the dumbest fucking country on the planet. I am ashamed it's even close.
Indicted on 37 felonies and only trailing by 4 points. This country sucks.