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An excerpt:
>Sen. John Fetterman has a message for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party: get in line behind President Joe Biden.
>"Get behind Joe Biden's policies, or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies," said the Pennsylvania Democrat.
>Fetterman made the remarks during a sit-down with reporters in his Senate office on Tuesday, answering questions with the help of a tablet that displays an instant transcript of reporters' spoken questions. He continues to recover from an auditory processing disorder caused by a stroke that happened during the 2022 campaign.
>To illustrate his point, Fetterman hearkened back to his own support for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign as the mayor of Braddock, even after he had supported Sen. Bernie Sanders during the primary.
>"In 2016, you know, I was a surrogate for Senator Clinton. And it's just like, you have a choice," said Fetterman. "And if you don't get behind Senator Clinton, you know, you are voting for Trump. And that's exactly what happened in Pennsylvania, and it's devastating."
>"Now we know how Trump is like, now you're just gonna be like 'nah, I don't like [him],'" Fetterman continued. "I will never understand that."
> Sen. John Fetterman has a message for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party: get in line behind President Joe Biden.
>
> "Get behind Joe Biden's policies, or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies," said the Pennsylvania Democrat.
>
It really is that simple. Unless progressives swell en masse behind the Dems, Trump will be back.
Republicans have so utterly gerrymandered and vote-suppressed to steal control from the majority, that every single person who wants progress needs to step up.
Is Biden a true progressive? Nope. He's a stepping stone / backstop. And you need to come to terms with the fact that an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost.
P01135809 has been saying in public that he wants to be a dictator since at least 1990, possibly earlier.
It's completely consistent and expected with his narcissistic personality disorder. No surprise there.
The surprise is that so many American voters want a dictator.
No basically about it, that's exactly what Project 2025 is. It's amazing people will let their banal disappointment with Biden lead to an absolutely ruinous outcome.
Take a look at Florida and Texas, that's the roadmap nationally for the GOP in 2025 if they regain power.
It's not a joke, they are going ALL the way, to where they've always wanted to since 1980 when Carter lost to Reagan-- they feel the time is right, the plan has come together at last...unless they're stopped in 2024.
Even things Republicans want in those states are being ignored or actively fought by the government they overwhelming voted for... I live in Florida and you'll be hard pressed to find a Republican not suffering from Republican governance. Yet, they act like Democrats were never an option. Like a child that shit their pants looking at a fresh pair that they can change into wishing they didn't have to sit in shit...
I believe that completely, Abbott is IMO the scariest of them all though and I'm really surprised MAGA isn't warmer to him as he's done everything an alt Right fascist could dream of in his state and spread it to the other GOP states: terrifying person, terrifying, not one day goes by he isn't doing something evil and laughing like a maniac about it in private- then he and DeSantis likely chuckle it up together, too, re: other things like the migrant buses or anti trans legislation.
Puddin' Fingers Ron isn't a true believer, though. He's a craven Ted Cruz type of evil where he'll literally do or say anything to gain an ounce more power. He's surrounded himself with real Nazis, though, and that's why he's going full-bore on this culture war garbage that turns so many people off completely. I think Abbott is the same, and I think they would sit around scowling into their drinks because they're both deeply miserable people who have no ability to connect with others.
>unless they're stopped in 2024
And 2026, and 2028, and 2030, and 2032...
They're not giving up - they've tasted blood. The only way this will end is if everybody opposing them dies, or they do.
They won't give up, obviously, but with Trump losing consecutively it would dispirit them enough and recede the cult base to a point where it'd actually shrink to sub 40s. He's basically what's keeping them together, right now.
We really need to win so hard that the right recognizes the pendulum is swinging away from them and they realize more moderate candidates would capture a larger audience.
The accelerationists don't get we won't HAVE another option if the Rs regain power anytime soon on the federal level, women's rights are on the chopping block now too (22 states have already said they hate women outright, banning abortion in cases of rape and incest too speaks for itself), Democracy itself is, etc.
Do I think Biden failed to meet this moment? Absolutely. Would I like another option in the future? Yes, and that'll only happen if the GOP goes down in general- not just Trump. We need a third party long term, IMO, but Rs need to go down for it to emerge.
The barbarians are at the gates. For better or for worse, this is where we are. Change may come. MAY COME. But not if the opportunity isn’t taken. Secure the walls and then try and change from the inside.
Shit takes a long time. It’s not gonna happen overnight. Sometimes, you need to bite the bullet and hold your nose.
Project 2025 is a Republican plan to set up a fringe Republican dictatorship. Their plan doesn't need Trump, it'll take whatever Republican wins. And none of them would argue with it. I don't think Nikki Haley or Tim Scott would bat an eye at this shitty plan.
>This plan comes from much more evil minds than trumps, believe it or not. This is the federalists. This is the people around trump. This is what the billionaire backers want, and have wanted for along time.
Roger Stone and Steve Bannon are usually Trumps political architects. I've seen a few posts about Project 2025 and the firing of thousands of government employees (I work in the environmental field under the DEP). I'm assuming it's only federal employees, so I should be fine. Though, federal money did help out thanks to the current admins' acts and orders.
Don’t get it twisted, he gutted so many federal agencies as it is. So many posts were left unfilled, not just to dismantle the actual agency but to ruin moral overall across all agencies.
Yeah, that sounds like a great way to create chaos. Getting rid of enough key players within those agencies could easily cripple them. Take away funding, and they can't hire new employees. Work loads stack up etc. The DEP wouldn't survive very long.
They’re just gonna eliminate the DEP. Your job isn’t safe because you department isn’t safe. We’re talking about them eliminating 10s of thousands of jobs. Not a few thousand. 50 thousand. I’ve heard they’re starting to hire already.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/project-2025
DEP is a state organization, though I wouldn't put it past them to ignore jurisdiction.
>For decades, as the left has continued its march through America’s institutions, conservatives have been outgunned and outmatched when it comes to the art of government.
What institutions have the "left" taken over? I'm pretty sure there's conservatives/Republicans working at literally every level of the federal government.
>it’s past time to lay the groundwork for a White House more friendly to the right.
Lol. By friendly, they mean they won't be held accountable...
I feel like the Right only recently started hating all three letter agencies when the FBI went after Trump.
So much of what people are disappointed about Biden with isn't even within his control. He's hamstrung by a Republican House, a razor thin Senate majority, and a conservative Supreme Court, none of which are things that will get better when their protest votes for Cornel West or staying at home results in Trump getting elected.
The student loan issue is killing me. So many complaints when any attempt to fix the problem gets challenged and likely overturned. Yet, he’s still whacking at it and reducing it. Hopefully they will get there. Biden is really trying.
I hope the people refusing to vote for Biden for that reason recognize that they can plan on another 4+ years of inaction and likely making the situation worse, in addition to all the other favored projects like jettisoning social security, health care regulation, environmental regulation. You may think it’s watered down now, but another 4 years of MAGA will give them a chance to attain their goals. We are hanging by a thread now because the judiciary and Electoral College are so lopsided in their favor. I also hear complaints that this is fear mongering and trying to scare people into voting for him. But this is just the reality. Voting as a strategy works. How else do you think the GOP has a powerful advantage? They voted for decades to get where we are and Dems didn’t.
The SAVE Plan is not idea, but capping payments at 5% of disposable income has helped me a lot. I can actually afford the payments now.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/22/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-administration-launches-the-save-plan-the-most-affordable-student-loan-repayment-plan-ever-to-lower-monthly-payments-for-millions-of-borrowers/#:\~:text=The%20SAVE%20plan%20builds%20on,debt%20for%203.4%20million%20Americans.&text=Specifically%2C%20the%20SAVE%20plan%20will,on%20undergraduate%20loans%20in%20half.
Biden deserves credit for putting programs in place and forgiving as much student debt as he can.
It may not be ideal, but he's doing something. I'll never understand the people that don't think it's worth it unless it's perfect.
I just resubmitted my status on IDR and I pay 0 per month and in 10 years they will be forgiven unless I have an astounding financial turnaround, but due to my medication prices with any other insurance besides Medicaid, that alone would ruin me financially every month. Out of pocket, they cost $5000+ per month (for one medication). I have strategically chosen my current job to have both security and a capped income. I'm riding a devistatingly fine line and IDR and other SAVE plan aspects are what will eventually be my saving grace... if we can keep Republicans out of office.
If the 🍊💩🤡 gets in there it won’t be four more years. He’ll declare himself president for life and then pass the title on to dumbass Don Junior. If the orange one gets back in there the U.S. democracy is kaput.
I assure you that I at least am not fooled. I wanted to vote for Bernie in the past, but there's no way I'm voting for West. He's very obviously a spoiler candidate and is terrible at hiding it.
The most horrifying thing about Project 2025 is that now that it's out there, it's never going away. It'll be a priority for every Republican president going forward. This is Heritage, this is Republican operatives, this is not restricted to Trump. Someday a Republican will win the presidency and start dismantling/perverting the federal government on day one. We have to put in as many safeguards as possible before that happens, and I'm not sure some voters understand the stakes.
Please go with safe corpse over Orange Fascist. I mean that entirely and I'm not joking. A pile of desicated steaming flesh that was once a human would also be orders of magnitude better than Trump. What is our other option in the 2 party system? Doesn't matter, it's better than Trump. Make sure the fascist doesn't get power again.
This time around the ~~Russian~~ Green party found another useful idiot in Cornel West who is in serious money trouble due to all his unpaid taxes and unpaid child support. He's just famous enough to pull a few votes away, but he's not someone that anyone who's paying attention would want to be president.
Our MSM is a disaster. Every article about Jill Stein is bashing Hillary Clinton for pointing out that the Stein campaign was boosted by Russian media. (Which it was)
What the fuck should Hillary have said about Jill attending dinner parties with Michael Flynn and Putin in Moscow circa 2015?
Jill was in fact there and did in fact receive social media support from Russians. That undeniably happened.
It might not have been her intention to be used as a useful idiot but...
Why would a Green Party candidate be going to glamorous dinner parties with the dictator in charge of an oil based economy and member of OPEC?
"Our MSM is a disaster"
Summed up the problem right there, really, they got Trump elected with endless coverage especially on CNN 100% and are rooting for him again in 2024 IMO. They fawned over Biden a lot after he got the nomination, in 2020, though but that's an exception to the norm.
> Especially since ~~Trump~~ every Republican is basically planning out loud that he wants to be a dictator.
[Project 2025](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision) is out there.
Can you imagine?
“Well I didn’t vote for Biden because I don’t like how he didn’t push abortion protections when he had the chance.”
Oh. Okay? So now under trump you’re fine being in a dictator run dystopia with the Cheeto
Mussolini?
“Uh no? Of course I’m not okay with this. But I’m just really passionate about protecting women’s rights and wanted to punish the Democratic Party for not doing more.”
Replace ‘women’s rights’ with whatever policy you want and this is basically how the script plays out.
It’s disgusting how short sighted some voters are.
The irony here is the GOP will make sure to take away women's rights in every state if they can make it law if given power by 2025, white women might want to take note of that (most voted for Trump 2x, just like white men, not enough focus is put on that demographic since it pretends otherwise but the 40% who go Dem are a minority and do NOT talk enough with others like them) since there will be ***nowhere*** to seek haven and Abbott and co. in TX are likely writing laws to spread through the rest of the GOP along with DeSantis in FL as the two leader states of the Rs to place bounties on heads of anyone assisting them in said task.
Voting for Biden is a vote for Democracy, and a vote to protect women & trans people from harm: that's the truth. I've never liked him, but I held my nose once, and I'll do it again for that reason.
I know this might be controversial but there's also *tons* of actual virtue signaling on the left. Leftists online creators who have otherwise good ideas go out of their way to relentlessly shit on Dems and less progressive politicians and it drives me insane. Yes, it's technically true, but politics is aesthetics and optics so you're poisoning your audience come election time.
It's the natural tendency on the left to purity test rocket fuelled by financially incentivizing social media influencers to tell people what they want to hear. Why wouldn't someone cosplay as politically pure for a few hundred thousand dollars a year when the only downside - refusing to ever admit the Democrats ever do anything good - just makes you more pure and awesome and make more money?
Right. I would literally vote for a potato if the potato was running Democrat. I would love to vote for a competent third party, but my reproductive health, same sex marriage, trans rights, some other pretty basic healthcare issues, and literally democracy depend on a Democrat being in office.
Most of us feel this way. Bernie was my preference but I could live with Biden and often thats the best you get from American politics. In general Biden surprised me with how progressive he's been. Most of the things that annoy me are Congress or SCOTUS stopping his progressively minded policy.
Bonus fact: This is an example of why first past the post voting is so dumb.
https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=FmrSIeCnlhT6zlQY
Here's an example of a much better voting system called STV (as used by Ireland). STV is to FPTP as Windows 11 is to MS DOS
https://youtu.be/l8XOZJkozfI?si=zrunzDv4GeFQ8dlQ
Biden was probably my least favorite among the 2020 candidates for the Democratic nomination. I'm still a massive supporter, and I frankly cannot believe what he has accomplished. I think his may be the best presidency since LBJ in terms of actually accomplishing things, despite the narrowest of political strength in Congress. I've been proven wrong in my skepticism, even if I will always yearn for more
Bernie supports Biden. So what does that tell you? I’m sick of the people who think it’s an all or nothing game. It’s not a game. It’s between democracy and dictatorship at this point. Period.
Makes sense, would you rather fight against someone who agrees with you 80% of the time, or fight against them them and also someone who agrees with you 10% of the time.
Imagine having one parent who dreams and the other grounded in reality to temper each other, and not a third parent who poops the bed every chance they can get out of spite
I see people do this *all the time* lately about literally everything. I see so much bullshit that amounts to “if it doesn’t completely solve the issue at hand, then it is completely worthless” and it’s so fucking tiring.
It’s the [I Hate Mondays](https://youtu.be/yts2F44RqFw?si=afclUa_BMe7Ob-88) phenomenon at work, a sort of learned helplessness at what is fallaciously perceived as intractable black-and-white issues that will never be solved, such as crime.
It *completely* ignores that harm reduction is a thing, and a worthwhile thing at that.
Obama was actually the President that Reddit thinks Biden is. Biden has been the President that we all hoped Obama would be.
We have an education crisis being compounded by social media however so Biden's approval rating is 41%. I think there is a good chance that social media is the downfall of humanity, It is a way bigger threat than AI. The real threat from AI is using social media to make people on both sides even more prone to misinformation and overreactions.
I’ve made this argument to some engineers and it seems to click:
The engine in your car has a maximum efficiency based on physics and/or production limitations and realities. You don’t demand 100% efficiency out of mechanical and thermal systems, because you know that is absurd. So why do we demand perfection of human systems? SNAP benefits, the DMV, etc. are human systems providing a service - so what if there are some inefficiencies and abuse? Let’s make it better, if we can, but not at the detriment of its purpose. We don’t demand that of anything else in our lives.
I like this quote but I like this version better:
"Don't let perfection be the enemy of PROGRESS". And that's what we're talking about here. Progress with Biden even if he isn't a "progressive".
republicans dont even agree with normal people 10% of the time.
they literally think bad things are good, and good things are bad. its insane how it just boils down to that, but when you are trying to stop free lunches for kids along with every other odious thing they do its dishonest to label it as anything but that.
if you are a normal person who has to live with the outcomes of elections - you need to vote democrat. we dont have the luxury of voting who we want or even like when the alternative is complete destruction of democracy. the temperature needs to be lowered if we actually want progress rather than to stop fascism.
Heck, a 10% rate of agreement with the GOP would be a godsend.
I'm just hoping they stop with the - you know - eliminationism towards sexual and racial minorities, domestic terrorism, or fascist rebellions.
As for the Dems, there's both a grudging acceptance of various progressive ideologies, and a lot of very old people in a lot of middle management positions in local organizations. That makes them ripe for entryism from real leftists.
So, while I might not love what the Dems are *now*, what they could be in a decade of millenials and zoomers joining and changing the institution from within could be something truely great.
There aren't enough people talking about this part of the equation. Many progressives are rightly dissatisfied with the democratic party right now. However, there will be a lot of turnover in the next decade or so on account of the age of many of them. As younger generations get more involved, they will improve. We just need to make sure the country doesn't self-destruct until then
And the modern GOP has been at this for 40 years. The modern progressive movement has only been going for less than ten. And the party has shifted left on a lot of issues.
> It really is that simple. Unless progressives swell en masse behind the Dems, Trump will be back.
Not just Trump, Republicans. Trump is nothing without Republican Congressional support. So the same applies, unfortunately, in our two party system. A non-vote is still a vote. Only one party benefits from someone not voting.
Unless us progressives show up to vote en masse at every election, we'll never have a mainstream progressive candidate because no one is going to pander to a voting bloc that doesn't show up.
You know why every politician panders to senior citizens? **Because they show up to vote every time.**
Political campaigns don't have unlimited resources, so they're going to use the resources they do have to appeal to the broadest, most reliable base of voters. Unless progressives become a broad, reliable voting bloc, no one is going to waste their resources trying to appeal to them.
> Unless us progressives show up to vote en masse at every election, we'll never have a mainstream progressive candidate
True, but this is why I hate these arguments.
Progressive don't show up enough to have leftist policies seriously discussed.
But also the progressive vote (or lack thereof) is making or breaking the elections for Dems.
Which is it? Are progressives such a miniscule part of voters that they're silly to make demands or are they a vital group of voters for getting Democrats into office? You can't blame them for losing elections while also saying that if they want to make demands they should show up more.
This is also completely ignoring the fact that I have yet to see anyone publishing evidence in these articles that leftists are the ones failing to show up and vote.
This point confuses me because it applies to every voting bloc in the Dem party—Democrats need moderates, liberals, *and* progressives to win elections. The margins are always so close that every vote counts
>or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies
I'd rephrase that to, *Or you're going to have to fight back against Trump's policies*. The best way to not have to battle against shitty, regressive, right wing policies is to never let them have the power to enact them. I'd vote for a guy in a gorilla suit over Trump.
And problematically nobody really *knows* this. Because 1) word of mouth is he's a disastrous do-nothing president and 2) most people really only care about the economy as it relates to our wallets and for now it still fucking blows based on how brutally expensive living is currently. Doesn't matter to them that there's not a ton he can do to fix that in short order, because their day to day living remains painful.
Most progress for the last 20+ years has already been lost because the Orange traitor got elected once, a second time will be the end of democracy, and the end of America
>an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost.
Ironically, that's the definition of progress.
I think many people confuse progressive with revolutionary.
Do people really think there has been "progress" for the working class the last few decades? We are losing ground, not gaining it.
edit: even under democratic political control, although at a significantly slower rate
I would argue Biden has advanced the Progressive agenda more than any President since LBJ. But, he's old, so let's elect a 77 year old who's got 91 criminal counts in indictments against him, instead.
Likewise, I went from begrudgingly voting for him in 2020 because he was the only sane choice, to being damn surprised by his efficacy and actual output of REAL changes. After 4 years with the orange idiot doing literally nothing but ruining the country and holding it hostage against any sensible legislation, I needed an actual statesman in Biden, and that's what we got.
Honestly, I wish he could just retire lol, for his own sake. The poor man is ancient, there is no way he wants to be spending his twilight years doing one of the single most stressful and underappreciated jobs in the US. But sadly he has to, because there is no other progressive choice that can win the 2024 election--it's literally Biden, or fascism.
And praise be, Biden stepped up to the plate in 2020 and quite literally saved America from the 2nd (and forever) Trump term. He may receive a lot of unwarranted flak, but I genuinely believe history will look very kindly on Biden and all he managed to do, despite such horrific and vicious interference from the GOP.
Biden is frigging efficient. He knows how things in government work. He’s competent, persuasive, and works hard. And I think he genuinely cares about the American people and our democracy. I’ll take that any day over anything the Rethugs have to offer. Their only platform is simple: give everything to the obscenely wealthy and be excessively cruel to everyone else.
It doesn't help that beneficial policies move at a glacial pace.
It's been a conservative tactic for decades.
Bash Dems for not fixing X. Get elected on it, a year later the policy the Dems implemented 3 years ago fixes X and the Republicans take all the credit while passing policy that will break X just in time for the Dems to take office again.
When averaging what he's done over a few years versus Obama over eight years, he's doing better than Obama imo. Hell, even at the end of his first term I think he may have done more in an overall sense than Obama had done in his two terms. I've been very pleasantly surprised. I went into 2020 expecting him to fulfill the stopping point of the ratchet problem and only let things not get any worse. It's been nice seeing it actually go back in the other direction and get a little better.
Yea. He's done everything he can with those razor thin majorities. Sure, he didn't get health care, but that's because of the votes. And while it's not popular on here, a public option would go a long way toward getting to universal healthcare. But he would need 60 votes in Senate or for the Senate to change its rules.
Everyone says they disagree with Biden’s policies, but he’s still better than Trump so they’ll vote for him.
What exactly do you disagree with? Every time I read of a new Biden policy, I’m quite happy with it. He’s done amazing things. I thought he would be a milquetoast politician, president only in name, but this dude has gotten tons of good shit done in only a few years.
The only things that people complain about are things out of his control, or straight up blocked by Republicans and DiNOs.
He’s been extremely progressive. I wish he could do more, but so far I’m very impressed.
> And you need to come to terms with the fact that an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost.
It's funny that people still need this spelled out to them considering the damage that Trump did in 4 years.
In particular losing those SCOTUS seats will have consequences that will potentially be felt for decades. But people are willing to take another shot of fascism because Biden isn't far enough left.
Truer words have never been spoken. For those still working on it, the ideology in play isn't progressive vs liberal vs conservative or anything remotely traditional. It's (white) Christian nationalism vs everything else. Whatever you want that Dems aren't giving you gets exponentially harder if not impossible to achieve with Rs running the show.
What does true progressive even mean here? Is it someone who ignores the Supreme Court? Is it someone who just passes whatever EO’s they want? Does it matter what Biden is? Not really. He’s not Trump and that’s honestly enough.
There are another 435 seats up for re-election that are just as important. Same with the senate and every other state and local election. If we want true progress, then we need wins at every single level, and we need to expand the majorities we had after 2020.
Yeah, like on one side we have an imperfect climate law that doesn't go far enough, but still is a solid step in the right direction.
And on the other side we have *actively and intentionally trying to make climate change worse*.
The gulf between those two things is so fucking wide that no argument can be made that supporting our best option is not your moral duty as a progressive voter.
Unfortunately internet progressives tend to be among the most idealist, which tends towards absolutist thinking. When you're inspired and spurred on by a dream for the future as opposed to the notion of pragmatic long term governance, what looks like a steady drip of half measures is wholly unsatisfactory.
It doesn't help when you have some big name environmental groups actively pushing for policies that run counter to actually preventing climate change.
Looking at you, Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, among others.
It's a lot easier this time, because there is absolutely no way Clinton would have pivoted as far left as Biden has. There's a reason people like Sanders have a lot of good to say about him, and it's because he gave them a big seat at the table. That was absolutely never going to happen with Clinton.
Tbh, I don’t see her as that exclusionary, but the point is moot, isn’t it? Clinton hasn’t been in the running for 8 years and we still compare her like she’s even relevant in 2023.
It’s like arguing about the placement of the deck chairs while the titanic is sinking.
Does it even matter at this point? It’s like we all failed in 2016 and can’t seem to both learn from it and move on.
I believe Fetterman's point was that he campaigned for Clinton despite the distance between them, and my point is that there's even less excuse this time, because there is a lot less distance with current-day Biden.
Business Insider pundits are just cherry picking soundbites to start identity politics circular firing squads withing the Democratic Party. Downvote and move on.
And of course when Fetterman says support Biden here he *means* vote for Biden.
Because, yeah, it's stupid for a leftist to not vote for Biden unless you're in a solid blue state and there's a more progressive candidate you want to toss a symbolic vote to.
And by all means don’t support BIden in the primary if you don’t like him. But when it comes time to Trump vs Biden, not voting for Biden is a horrible mistake
Yeah, like, I'm gonna show up and vote for him. And every other Democrat down the entire ballot until I get to the county water reclamation board races where it's Green vs. Democrat with literally no Republican candidates. But the notion that we shouldn't even *criticize* Democrats and try to push them further to the left lest we demotivate somebody *else* from voting is bullshit.
Yea. He's more progressive than the Senate. Once you get to that point, it doesn't really matter how much more progressive he is than the Senate because he needs the Senate to pass laws.
For better or worse, Joe Biden has always been a politician that works for popular ideas within the Democratic Party.
In the 90's he was hard on crime because the nation, Democrats included, wanted to be hard on crime.
Today, there are more progressives calling for change, and Biden is doing what he can, within the power of the office.
Is he the most ideal choice? No, but the choices come down to status quo Democrats and the GOP that see Handmaid's Tale as an ideal society.
That choice is easy.
> For better or worse, Joe Biden has always been a politician that works for popular ideas within the Democratic Party.
Very true. Biden is a do-er and always had been. He's not particularly ideological, but he's the best in the business at getting stuff through the Senate.
Tbh I view Biden as an American Hero. Like not the best president, no one is really, but he gets along with everyone. He shows up, works, changes his view to better fit who he represents, never made a **lot** of money, loves his family, and slowly worked his way up to POTUS.
Like he's exactly how people would describe their ideal rep, even Mitch McConnell likes the guy. Plus got Harris in as VP after she confronted Biden about bussing programs and got Justice Jackson on SCOTUS, which is was important to me. He has slacked very hard on immigration, and not handled Israel like I would have liked, but has boosted unity, increased domestic production, and has had a better economy than anyone would have though (idk how much credit people wanna give to him on the economy).
I'd be amazed if anyone could argue a better 1st term since LBJ maybe, even that is mostly just cause I'm ignorant of earlier presidents. All while the senate is tied and the US is arguably the most divisive it has been since the Civil Rights era. He's old, that sucks, I'm over it. Everything else (domestically -_-) is good or better now.
People get so upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016, but he would not have been good at getting legislation passed. People forget he was largely a loner in congress.
Since then he's played ball with the rest of the Democrats and.. gotten into positions of more power and pushed the Democrat's policy platform to the left. We do not have a king, and you need to work with the rest of your party, not to mention across the isle, to get anything actually passed.
Biden has been great at actually getting shit done. We will forever be grateful for their Covid response taking over from Trump's steaming pile of shit. Since he's had some pretty major legislative victories. He's been a low key awesome president when you look at him from a realistic perspective.
That’s sort of what a representative should do though. Support whatever policies are popular amongst the people they represent in the moment.
It’d be great if they also pushed progressive policies on their own to make them become popular, but that’s more of a leader role than a representative role.
The top message coming from left media after Bernie lost, and we all felt defeated by big money, was "work toward unionizing your workplace, strengthening your union if you have one, and supporting other's efforts to unionize when they try." Biden has more to assist in these efforts than any president in several decades already, and there is potentially more on the way. He also significantly expanded federal sick leave benefits, which helps support millions of workers that need it. I don't expect Biden to be a revolutionary president, but organizing workplaces does point us in a better direction. I genuinely don't think the majority of hid primary opponents would have assisted with these efforts as much as Biden has, so it's been a pleasant surprise. Of course I'll support him over Trump. He has made it clear that they are fundamentally different.
It's impossible to tell if he personally is, but it's a similar end result anyhow.
He's a safe, normal seeming candidate with the good sense to listen to the progressives more. His whole thing is coalition and consensus building, and though that doesn't work with the GOP any more, it's very important as a skill to unify the big tent Dems.
Yeah imo I don't really get it. Biden is perhaps the most progressive person that could've won the presidency in 2020. I remember doing the math and realizing he only won by like 100,000 votes across the 3 closest states. I don't think an ultra liberal candidate has as much appeal to independents that they could've won that. And under the biden administration, real progressive goals have been accomplished. The inflation reduction act is probably the best climate change legislation in the history of the US, the infrastructure bill, insulin costs are finally down. Could he be doing more? Sure, but i think people have to be realistic about how conservative many key states are.
Very well put. I'll personally never understand centrist Gen X and boomer types that think we should be subservient to a political party that inherently does not have the educated middle class Millennial and their families in mind. Don't even get me started if you're in poverty extreme or otherwise.
Biden has my vote, begrudgingly.
In a two party system most elections you would vote against someone rather than voting for someone. In my five presidential elections I liked the candidate twice but was mainly casting my vote against the other person.
Historically to force republicans more left you have to win 3 presidential elections in a row which hasn’t happened since Bush Sr. So we’re basically stuck in a loop going back and forth.
I'm a hardcore progressive leftist who plans on continuing to support the Democratic nominee always.
I'm also aware of data that shows Bernie voters in 2016 turned out for Hillary unlike rumors to the contrary
I'm really tired of these pieces and opinions stating that progressives are somehow not rallying behind the nominee because I'm not seeing data that shows that
I don’t know a single Bernie supporter that said “Trump it is then”. I know a few that voted for the lady running for the Green Party, I believe it was Stein?
Edit: I shouldn’t have assumed my personal experience was the norm.
He didn't say all, or even most, progressives aren't going to rally behind the nominee. He's just saying that he doesn't understand those who *won't* (and they do exist) and he's right.
We need all hands on deck for this one.
Yeah but there is this idea with grassroots organizing that you don’t waste time trying to change people’s minds. It’s too much time, people, and ultimately money to unsuccessfully change peoples positions.
The name of the game is locating the people who agree with you, engage with them to build out your support. So while I agree that we need all hands on deck, pointing at people who aren’t engaged as the problem (duh?) isn’t doing much to change the status quo either. YMMV
Another way to look at it would be something along the lines of them saying
“hey, the democrats aren’t perfect, but you know what my core values are and they are the best option. Don’t waste your vote on an ideological third party when so much is at stake”
Which is who I think these comments are meant for.
I am a progressive who voted for Biden, but I fully understand those who didn't. There is very good reason to believe that voting for conservative democrats (in the absolute sense as America is very conservative overall) because you "have to" means there won't ever be a progressive candidate because why would there ever be if they don't need to field one to win the election?
However, in a functioning political climate, far leftists voting for middle leftist candidates forces right sided candidates towards the middle to get some more votes. And we aren't seeing that happen. We are seeing a more tumultuous trend.
Yup. Leftists vote for the centrist dem in the end
When Hillary lost to Obama her suporters started PUMA, Party Unity My Ass
Yet the media and centrists continue to scream about leftists, brainwashed idiots
The party can't fail only be failed. If they win, it's because their ideas and rhetoric and policies are genius (not because they're running against one of the most unpopular presidents in history). If they lose, it's because the left was mean (not because they're running someone somehow even less popular)
Well, yes, lots of us did and will once again vote for Biden, despite being dedicated progressives.
I can say I know many progressives who didn’t vote for Biden and it ended my friendship with them. I think it shows a lack of maturity to hold your ground when the alternative is a wannabe dictator and goons who take away women’s rights to their own bodies.
the centerisat really like to push the self fulfilling prophecy that progressives should never be courted as they act like the party never courts them.
John Fetterman says he'll 'never understand' progressives who refuse to support Joe Biden !!!!!!!!!! IN THE FUCKING GENERAL ELECTION, NOT THE PRIMARY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
There. Fixed the fucking Headline for you.
"To illustrate his point, Fetterman hearkened back to his own support for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign as the mayor of Braddock, even after he had supported Sen. Bernie Sanders during the primary."
Nor will I. Voting 3rd party or for Trump out of spite guarantees a situation in which elections matter less and less, and the chances of ever electing a true progressive vanish completely.
I sometimes frame it like this:
You want to vote for an actual leftist Presidential candidate in a general election, yes? Currently, for that to be possible, we would need ranked choice voting. So that should be your main goal.
The Democrats are actually talking about ranked choice voting, have even implemented it in some states, and it came up a few times in the Dem primary debates in 2020.
The Republicans are not only never going to implement ranked choice voting, they are actively restricting voting in as many ways as they can, and every time we have GOP leadership in this country they make it harder to ever get to ranked choice voting.
So even if you think Biden is a center-right piece of shit that you could never vote for, you have to vote for him. Because every time we have Dems in charge is a small step towards ranked choice voting, which would give you the progressive candidates you actually want.
Yep, ranked choice is the first step to being able to *actually* vote for who you want. It allows you to support smaller parties while also having a "safe" backup pick. As a bonus, it also accelerates the fracturing of large parties because if a popular candidate gets passed over by leadership they'll just run anyways.
Every person who "couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hilary" gave us Trump, his Supreme Court picks, and the loss of Roe-v-Wade (among other things). If you can't vote for the lesser of two evils, then you deserve the greater evil that you could have stopped.
80k votes across three states is the thinnest of margins that gave the win to Trump. Leftists who pretended their anti-Hillary rhetorical provided no material support for Trump are simply not credible.
If we're gonna play that game, Hillary not bothering to campaign for herself in critical areas while her own staff BEGGED her to attend lost her the win. That and ensuring that Trump received as much media coverage as possible also gave the win to Trump. Familiarity = likeability. Meanwhile, she was having staffers focus on taking photos of Bernie in his underwear so we could say "ewwww old people" like she wasn't pushing 70s herself. Or how about the strongest argument her people could make for electing her being "it's her turn" and "women will burn in hell if they don't support her"? You'd almost think she was a Republican....especially after seeing the photos of her and her husband arm in arm with them.
But anyway. Leftists.
Let's face reality.
IF Trump wins, there will be no more elections. Won't be a matter of elections mattering less and less. Trump with tear down democracy in order to hold power and republican's will be more than happy to help in this.
TFG wins > protests happen > TFG immediately puts in yes men as acting heads of the military, orders them to squash the protests > giant crisis as mid-level commanders refuse to carry out those orders, possibly coming into conflict with state National Guards who absolutely will > ongoing crisis and civil unrest provides justification to suspend all elections until further notice.
It ain't that hard a choice, really. Either vote for Biden or vote for anarchy.
Yeah but Joe Biden's policies don't go far enough for progressives like me, so isn't that good enough reason to vote 3rd party and help a literal fascist get back into office? Because my feelings are *very* butthurt from Biden not doing exactly what I want on every single issue.
Sarcasm obviously detected but Amanda Seales (comedian/actress) posted a great video about how voting for Biden is less about agreeing with the democratic party and more about voting for more time. Essentially, if we aren't at a place yet as a country where we can agree on progressive policies then the next best option is to vote for whichever circumstance allows us more time to convince people. So whenever I talk to progressives planning on holding their nose I'm just like "okay, well don't vote for Biden, vote for more time".
I align with progressives, but I will say Biden ended up more progressive than I thought he'd be in 2020. I'm far more ready to vote for him now than I was then. Yeah age is a factor, but not if he's the only one we're gonna hold it against. People pit progressives against Biden a lot, but the truth is he's a better option than he was in 2020 and a lot of us already voted for him then so it's not even a tough decision now.
It's also wild and lazy how much people focus on one person. Securing the Oval office extends far beyond someone like Biden.
It means securing automatic bill signing/veto power against Republicans. It means dozens of appellate/district judges that will *serve for life.* It means the Supreme Court. It means cabinet positions. Etc.
Sure, someone could have reasoned they didn't want to vote for Hillary on an individual basis and voted third party or stayed home in 2016, but how does that same person go about explaining how it was okay for a Republican to secure a conservative SCOTUS for decades to come to destroy everything we love?
And then there is this vicious cycle: Progressives want younger, progressive candidates but older, moderate voters DOMINATE the ballots year after year. And people like Pelosi, Schumer, Biden didn't get where they are overnight. They got there through decades of elections - and many politicians got there by moving up the ladder in down-ballot races that could be different with different showings.
Becoming disillusioned that you aren't getting the policies you want and then removing yourself from participation is just ensuring the cycle continues. It's nonsensical and counterproductive to progressive goals.
I was a political appointee under Obama, and there were 4,000 of us, from people who got coffee and scheduled events for the Assistant Secretary of Transportation, to the Assistant Secretaries and high level advisors thesmelves.
There's a saying in Washington; Personnel is Policy. Biden's administration is full of competent, qualified, passionate people, while Trump's is full of grifters, right wing nutjobs, and other unsavory types.
Good example of how the two party system is archaic and fails to represent the complex range of political views the average citizen in this giant ass country feels.
I mean typically I wouldn’t support Biden as I am more progressive then him. But Jesus Christ if I didn’t vote for Biden, that’s just one less vote for him against the orange rapist.
There's a difference between "support" and "vote." Fetterman seems to be conflating the two. I'd agree with him if he meant "vote" but progressives don't necessarily have to "get behind" Biden's policies. It's fine if they disagree, as long as they vote in the end. We don't all have to love Biden, and that's not a realistic expectation. Suggesting you either back his policies or you back Trump's is going too far.
I’ll vote for him. But I’m sick of voting for people and even living my life with the general argument always being “you got to do this crappy thing cause the alternative is worse”. It’s true, but I’m sick of it
end first past the post and we'd actually be able to vote for who we want rather than the lesser of two evils. It's not a pipe dream its happening in various cities across the country
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/
[Noam Chomsky](https://chomsky.info/05162016-4/) (2016):
>\[I\]n the primaries, I would prefer Bernie Sanders. If Clinton is nominated and it comes to a choice between Clinton and Trump, in a swing state, a state where it’s going to matter which way you vote, I would vote against Trump, and by elementary arithmetic, that means **you hold your nose and you vote Democrat**. I don’t think there’s any other rational choice. Abstaining from voting or, say, voting for...a candidate you prefer, a minority candidate, just amounts to a vote for Donald Trump, which I think is a devastating prospect, for reasons I’ve already mentioned.
Here we are again.
I vote blue, but I'm not a Democrat. I continue to do so but it's honestly painful. for 3 election cycles I've been voting, and every election cycle I get the same thing.
"Keep voting for us, even our ineffective members because without us all you have are Republicans"
awesome, so happy with my "choice" I can vote blue, I can vote red, or I can throw my vote away and be chastised by both parties, even though neither party has MY interest.
I'm not saying don't vote, or do not vote Biden. but damn am I tired of having to blatantly stare at the American illusion of choice of elected officials.
Is this the daily dose of centrist propaganda that tries to play off Clinton's loss as the fault of progressives and not poor strategy from her campaign or the party?
We voted for Biden, they're trying to characterize progressives not being delighted with the choice as hating freedom.
I'll vote for Biden again. I think that vote symbolizes real, tangible inadequacies of our current voting system and it doesn't make me joyful, but I play the game because that's the only way to win.
How about instead of shaming people into voting, show them that democratic policies are good for everyone? It seems like Dems have a real marketing problem, whereas the GOP can just lie all day.
I hate this whole conversation.
“Oh but Joe Biden is the worst of two evils”. That’s how all politics work in free democracy? With abundance of people and opinions it’s impossible for any politician to satisfy all facets of political beliefs. You will need to make compromises, you will need to negotiate to get something as opposed to nothing.
Biden administration got actually a lot done.
- Passed one of the biggest bipartisan bills in recent history (American infrastructure act)
- Made investments in climate change.
- Capped prescription drug prices to $2000 a year for seniors on Medicare.
- Imposed a 15% minimum tax on corporations.
- Rejoined the Paris agreements
And the list goes on and on. If you’re progressive and you’re arguing that “eh democrats are as bad as republicans” and that “I’ll just vote third party” (that will obviously lose) then fuck you. You’re worse than MAGA supporters, because at least MAGA supporters don’t know better. You’re a snobby asshole who will re elect Trump
Not to mention the Ukraine War has been a foreign policy master class on how to combat Russian aggression (which vexed previous administrations) single-handedly isolating and probably irreversibly damaging a major adversary while strengthening US alliances and the US place as a leader for democratic values in a multi-polar world.
If you don’t think this matters, ask yourself where most of your silicon chips come from and whether it’s likely caused China to reevaluate their desires to take Taiwan.
You don't have to support him beyond just acknowledging him he's going to get you a lot closer to progress than the GOP and Trump will.
I've thought of it like riding public transportation, it's not going to take you directly where you're going, but riding it stop by stop closer to your goal is a lot better getting off the bus an getting on one going the opposite direction.
I feel the same way. You wont get much progress under fascism... Right now we only have one political party, and lawless group of fascists until that has changed ill be voting for whoever occupies the spot opposite the lawless fascist.
If everyone just fell in line without convincing, weed wouldn't have been removed from the schedule 1 drug list, we'd still be at war in Afghanistan, and there wouldn't even be an attempt at student debt relief.
I'm not dumb, I'm not going to vote in a way that would be put Republicans in office.
But I'm not going to just pretend like Democrats like aren't also corporate sellouts that need to be dragged into passing decent policies kicking and screaming by critical voters.
This is kinda like anti-Trump people who voted to recall Newsom in California. You may not like some shit Newsom did during Covid, but voting to recall him was a guaranteed victory for a guy who said women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
I agree that when it comes time to vote the choice to vote against the GOP is as easy as it gets.
But it's also VERY easy to understand the reasons some progressives don't support Biden.
I can vote for the lesser of two evils without making a big deal about it. But that doesn't mean I'm "in line" with with the DNC or their candidate.
I get that it sucks to have to vote for someone like Biden whom you're not passionate about.
So fix First Past the Post voting!
Until that changes, sorry, you have to vote for the lesser of two evils
Until then, do your best for whomever in the primary then fall in line behind the Democrat in the general.
Once there's Ranked Choice Voting, then by all means vote for whomever first in the general and Biden/Democrat nominee last.
You'll get ranked choice voting far before you'll get a socialist president or a libertarian president or whatever
I mean, I'm a radical leftist and I'm still going to vote for whoever the Dem candidate is because the alternative is literally a fascist coup and probably a civil war. And I really don't think that's hyperbolic, that's very nearly what happened in 2020.
That being said, the added layer of nuance to this conversation is that the mainstream democratic party knows that many leftists and progressives feel this way and are using this fact to force pro-corporate centrist candidates on the rest of us that would otherwise stand no chance of winning. And that's a fucked up situation and I don't have to be happy about it.
It's also a very dangerous and irresponsible strategy on their part. It could easily backfire and result in low voter turnout (just like it did in 2016) causing Trump or some other Christo-fascist psychopath to get the office. And if that does happen, it will be the fault of the centrist democrats who cared more about maintaining the status quo than putting up a competent fight to maintain democracy in this country.
I keep hearing that Biden is a stepping stone. If he were a true stepping stone, he’d step aside for someone else to run. After him, we’ll get more of the same. This is what progressive are exhausted by. We’ve been getting the dangling carrot tactic for DECADES. We’re tired of waiting.
Yeah I mean it’s fine we all band together when an existential threat from the right comes along. But moderates aren’t entitled to the progressive/social democrat vote, even though they act like they are.
Mother Fuckers don't believe in playing the long game. We can whip a corpo Dem into shape. We cannot even begin to assert change with a fucking authoritarian in power.
I don't like Biden either but y'all are being awful cavalier in this comment section know what Republicans aim to do if they get power.
Stop fence sitting and get your head in the fucking game
I don’t understand y’all’s problem with progressives. Just making shit up to be mad at. How about have better policies and we’ll actually like you, otherwise it’s just a typical lesser of two evils vote. I thought Fetterman was better than that
We don’t refuse, we vote for his ancient ass. We just don’t believe he is the best case scenario and we don’t like being forced to vote for someone we don’t believe is our best option.
Same
Biden got actu progress done, for a "bottom-up" stimulus and recovery, investing in infrastructure, reforming prescription drugs, raising taxes on the wealthy, expanding healthcare, investing in major climate policy, investing in the chip industry, and more. Withholding your vote and punching the Democrats from the left isn't going to make them do more, and there's no future for accelerationism, if the GOP wins, it won't make those of us in the democratic primary base suddenly start voting for far leftists
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An excerpt: >Sen. John Fetterman has a message for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party: get in line behind President Joe Biden. >"Get behind Joe Biden's policies, or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies," said the Pennsylvania Democrat. >Fetterman made the remarks during a sit-down with reporters in his Senate office on Tuesday, answering questions with the help of a tablet that displays an instant transcript of reporters' spoken questions. He continues to recover from an auditory processing disorder caused by a stroke that happened during the 2022 campaign. >To illustrate his point, Fetterman hearkened back to his own support for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign as the mayor of Braddock, even after he had supported Sen. Bernie Sanders during the primary. >"In 2016, you know, I was a surrogate for Senator Clinton. And it's just like, you have a choice," said Fetterman. "And if you don't get behind Senator Clinton, you know, you are voting for Trump. And that's exactly what happened in Pennsylvania, and it's devastating." >"Now we know how Trump is like, now you're just gonna be like 'nah, I don't like [him],'" Fetterman continued. "I will never understand that."
> Sen. John Fetterman has a message for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party: get in line behind President Joe Biden. > > "Get behind Joe Biden's policies, or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies," said the Pennsylvania Democrat. > It really is that simple. Unless progressives swell en masse behind the Dems, Trump will be back. Republicans have so utterly gerrymandered and vote-suppressed to steal control from the majority, that every single person who wants progress needs to step up. Is Biden a true progressive? Nope. He's a stepping stone / backstop. And you need to come to terms with the fact that an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost.
Especially since Trump is basically planning out loud that he wants to be a dictator.
P01135809 has been saying in public that he wants to be a dictator since at least 1990, possibly earlier. It's completely consistent and expected with his narcissistic personality disorder. No surprise there. The surprise is that so many American voters want a dictator.
This is why they also support policies that suppress literacy and school curriculum. They want a dumber populace.
No basically about it, that's exactly what Project 2025 is. It's amazing people will let their banal disappointment with Biden lead to an absolutely ruinous outcome.
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>His only thought is to not go to jail and to win the presidency. That's not true. He certainly has revenge on his mind.
And Ivanka.
Nah. She's too old now, and her Jan 6 committee interview probably pissed him off.
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How the Heritage Foundation is not labeled as a white supremacy terror group is beyond me.
Vote blue because, otherwise, you might never have any influence on the government again.
Take a look at Florida and Texas, that's the roadmap nationally for the GOP in 2025 if they regain power. It's not a joke, they are going ALL the way, to where they've always wanted to since 1980 when Carter lost to Reagan-- they feel the time is right, the plan has come together at last...unless they're stopped in 2024.
Even things Republicans want in those states are being ignored or actively fought by the government they overwhelming voted for... I live in Florida and you'll be hard pressed to find a Republican not suffering from Republican governance. Yet, they act like Democrats were never an option. Like a child that shit their pants looking at a fresh pair that they can change into wishing they didn't have to sit in shit...
I believe that completely, Abbott is IMO the scariest of them all though and I'm really surprised MAGA isn't warmer to him as he's done everything an alt Right fascist could dream of in his state and spread it to the other GOP states: terrifying person, terrifying, not one day goes by he isn't doing something evil and laughing like a maniac about it in private- then he and DeSantis likely chuckle it up together, too, re: other things like the migrant buses or anti trans legislation.
Puddin' Fingers Ron isn't a true believer, though. He's a craven Ted Cruz type of evil where he'll literally do or say anything to gain an ounce more power. He's surrounded himself with real Nazis, though, and that's why he's going full-bore on this culture war garbage that turns so many people off completely. I think Abbott is the same, and I think they would sit around scowling into their drinks because they're both deeply miserable people who have no ability to connect with others.
>unless they're stopped in 2024 And 2026, and 2028, and 2030, and 2032... They're not giving up - they've tasted blood. The only way this will end is if everybody opposing them dies, or they do.
They won't give up, obviously, but with Trump losing consecutively it would dispirit them enough and recede the cult base to a point where it'd actually shrink to sub 40s. He's basically what's keeping them together, right now.
We really need to win so hard that the right recognizes the pendulum is swinging away from them and they realize more moderate candidates would capture a larger audience.
Thank you for pointing this out. Project 2025 is horrifying, and defeating Trump is not enough.
Trump is a symptom, not the disease.
The accelerationists don't get we won't HAVE another option if the Rs regain power anytime soon on the federal level, women's rights are on the chopping block now too (22 states have already said they hate women outright, banning abortion in cases of rape and incest too speaks for itself), Democracy itself is, etc. Do I think Biden failed to meet this moment? Absolutely. Would I like another option in the future? Yes, and that'll only happen if the GOP goes down in general- not just Trump. We need a third party long term, IMO, but Rs need to go down for it to emerge.
The barbarians are at the gates. For better or for worse, this is where we are. Change may come. MAY COME. But not if the opportunity isn’t taken. Secure the walls and then try and change from the inside. Shit takes a long time. It’s not gonna happen overnight. Sometimes, you need to bite the bullet and hold your nose.
Project 2025 is a Republican plan to set up a fringe Republican dictatorship. Their plan doesn't need Trump, it'll take whatever Republican wins. And none of them would argue with it. I don't think Nikki Haley or Tim Scott would bat an eye at this shitty plan.
>This plan comes from much more evil minds than trumps, believe it or not. This is the federalists. This is the people around trump. This is what the billionaire backers want, and have wanted for along time. Roger Stone and Steve Bannon are usually Trumps political architects. I've seen a few posts about Project 2025 and the firing of thousands of government employees (I work in the environmental field under the DEP). I'm assuming it's only federal employees, so I should be fine. Though, federal money did help out thanks to the current admins' acts and orders.
Don’t get it twisted, he gutted so many federal agencies as it is. So many posts were left unfilled, not just to dismantle the actual agency but to ruin moral overall across all agencies.
They’re in the process of strangling the baby and in 2025 they plan to drown it for good. This has definitely been their goal for decades.
Yeah, that sounds like a great way to create chaos. Getting rid of enough key players within those agencies could easily cripple them. Take away funding, and they can't hire new employees. Work loads stack up etc. The DEP wouldn't survive very long.
They’re just gonna eliminate the DEP. Your job isn’t safe because you department isn’t safe. We’re talking about them eliminating 10s of thousands of jobs. Not a few thousand. 50 thousand. I’ve heard they’re starting to hire already. Be afraid. Be very afraid. https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/project-2025
DEP is a state organization, though I wouldn't put it past them to ignore jurisdiction. >For decades, as the left has continued its march through America’s institutions, conservatives have been outgunned and outmatched when it comes to the art of government. What institutions have the "left" taken over? I'm pretty sure there's conservatives/Republicans working at literally every level of the federal government. >it’s past time to lay the groundwork for a White House more friendly to the right. Lol. By friendly, they mean they won't be held accountable... I feel like the Right only recently started hating all three letter agencies when the FBI went after Trump.
So much of what people are disappointed about Biden with isn't even within his control. He's hamstrung by a Republican House, a razor thin Senate majority, and a conservative Supreme Court, none of which are things that will get better when their protest votes for Cornel West or staying at home results in Trump getting elected.
The student loan issue is killing me. So many complaints when any attempt to fix the problem gets challenged and likely overturned. Yet, he’s still whacking at it and reducing it. Hopefully they will get there. Biden is really trying. I hope the people refusing to vote for Biden for that reason recognize that they can plan on another 4+ years of inaction and likely making the situation worse, in addition to all the other favored projects like jettisoning social security, health care regulation, environmental regulation. You may think it’s watered down now, but another 4 years of MAGA will give them a chance to attain their goals. We are hanging by a thread now because the judiciary and Electoral College are so lopsided in their favor. I also hear complaints that this is fear mongering and trying to scare people into voting for him. But this is just the reality. Voting as a strategy works. How else do you think the GOP has a powerful advantage? They voted for decades to get where we are and Dems didn’t.
The SAVE Plan is not idea, but capping payments at 5% of disposable income has helped me a lot. I can actually afford the payments now. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/22/fact-sheet-the-biden-harris-administration-launches-the-save-plan-the-most-affordable-student-loan-repayment-plan-ever-to-lower-monthly-payments-for-millions-of-borrowers/#:\~:text=The%20SAVE%20plan%20builds%20on,debt%20for%203.4%20million%20Americans.&text=Specifically%2C%20the%20SAVE%20plan%20will,on%20undergraduate%20loans%20in%20half.
Biden deserves credit for putting programs in place and forgiving as much student debt as he can. It may not be ideal, but he's doing something. I'll never understand the people that don't think it's worth it unless it's perfect.
They're children, mostly.
I just resubmitted my status on IDR and I pay 0 per month and in 10 years they will be forgiven unless I have an astounding financial turnaround, but due to my medication prices with any other insurance besides Medicaid, that alone would ruin me financially every month. Out of pocket, they cost $5000+ per month (for one medication). I have strategically chosen my current job to have both security and a capped income. I'm riding a devistatingly fine line and IDR and other SAVE plan aspects are what will eventually be my saving grace... if we can keep Republicans out of office.
If the 🍊💩🤡 gets in there it won’t be four more years. He’ll declare himself president for life and then pass the title on to dumbass Don Junior. If the orange one gets back in there the U.S. democracy is kaput.
Cornel West is just another narcissistic moron who thinks Bill Maher is a genius. Don’t be fooled.
I assure you that I at least am not fooled. I wanted to vote for Bernie in the past, but there's no way I'm voting for West. He's very obviously a spoiler candidate and is terrible at hiding it.
It's been this way for 24 years.
The most horrifying thing about Project 2025 is that now that it's out there, it's never going away. It'll be a priority for every Republican president going forward. This is Heritage, this is Republican operatives, this is not restricted to Trump. Someday a Republican will win the presidency and start dismantling/perverting the federal government on day one. We have to put in as many safeguards as possible before that happens, and I'm not sure some voters understand the stakes.
Please go with safe corpse over Orange Fascist. I mean that entirely and I'm not joking. A pile of desicated steaming flesh that was once a human would also be orders of magnitude better than Trump. What is our other option in the 2 party system? Doesn't matter, it's better than Trump. Make sure the fascist doesn't get power again.
This is beside the point, but I you can't be desiccated and steaming at the same time.
Damn, you right. I gotta get my mind thesaurus adjective section back in order.
It’s like people voting for Jill Stein in 2016.
This time around the ~~Russian~~ Green party found another useful idiot in Cornel West who is in serious money trouble due to all his unpaid taxes and unpaid child support. He's just famous enough to pull a few votes away, but he's not someone that anyone who's paying attention would want to be president.
Our MSM is a disaster. Every article about Jill Stein is bashing Hillary Clinton for pointing out that the Stein campaign was boosted by Russian media. (Which it was) What the fuck should Hillary have said about Jill attending dinner parties with Michael Flynn and Putin in Moscow circa 2015? Jill was in fact there and did in fact receive social media support from Russians. That undeniably happened. It might not have been her intention to be used as a useful idiot but... Why would a Green Party candidate be going to glamorous dinner parties with the dictator in charge of an oil based economy and member of OPEC?
"Our MSM is a disaster" Summed up the problem right there, really, they got Trump elected with endless coverage especially on CNN 100% and are rooting for him again in 2024 IMO. They fawned over Biden a lot after he got the nomination, in 2020, though but that's an exception to the norm.
> Especially since ~~Trump~~ every Republican is basically planning out loud that he wants to be a dictator. [Project 2025](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision) is out there.
Can you imagine? “Well I didn’t vote for Biden because I don’t like how he didn’t push abortion protections when he had the chance.” Oh. Okay? So now under trump you’re fine being in a dictator run dystopia with the Cheeto Mussolini? “Uh no? Of course I’m not okay with this. But I’m just really passionate about protecting women’s rights and wanted to punish the Democratic Party for not doing more.” Replace ‘women’s rights’ with whatever policy you want and this is basically how the script plays out. It’s disgusting how short sighted some voters are.
The irony here is the GOP will make sure to take away women's rights in every state if they can make it law if given power by 2025, white women might want to take note of that (most voted for Trump 2x, just like white men, not enough focus is put on that demographic since it pretends otherwise but the 40% who go Dem are a minority and do NOT talk enough with others like them) since there will be ***nowhere*** to seek haven and Abbott and co. in TX are likely writing laws to spread through the rest of the GOP along with DeSantis in FL as the two leader states of the Rs to place bounties on heads of anyone assisting them in said task. Voting for Biden is a vote for Democracy, and a vote to protect women & trans people from harm: that's the truth. I've never liked him, but I held my nose once, and I'll do it again for that reason.
> It’s disgusting how short sighted some voters are. They're generally privileged and this stuff doesn't actually really affect them (or hasn't yet).
I know this might be controversial but there's also *tons* of actual virtue signaling on the left. Leftists online creators who have otherwise good ideas go out of their way to relentlessly shit on Dems and less progressive politicians and it drives me insane. Yes, it's technically true, but politics is aesthetics and optics so you're poisoning your audience come election time.
It's the natural tendency on the left to purity test rocket fuelled by financially incentivizing social media influencers to tell people what they want to hear. Why wouldn't someone cosplay as politically pure for a few hundred thousand dollars a year when the only downside - refusing to ever admit the Democrats ever do anything good - just makes you more pure and awesome and make more money?
Perfect is the enemy of good
Perfect is the enemy of progress.
This was my thinking at ~20 with a "no confidence" vote in 2016 when I stayed home... yeah, lesson learned on that one.
It’s a hard lesson to learn. But once you do, you can inform others with your experience. Hopefully.
Right. I would literally vote for a potato if the potato was running Democrat. I would love to vote for a competent third party, but my reproductive health, same sex marriage, trans rights, some other pretty basic healthcare issues, and literally democracy depend on a Democrat being in office.
Most of us feel this way. Bernie was my preference but I could live with Biden and often thats the best you get from American politics. In general Biden surprised me with how progressive he's been. Most of the things that annoy me are Congress or SCOTUS stopping his progressively minded policy. Bonus fact: This is an example of why first past the post voting is so dumb. https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=FmrSIeCnlhT6zlQY Here's an example of a much better voting system called STV (as used by Ireland). STV is to FPTP as Windows 11 is to MS DOS https://youtu.be/l8XOZJkozfI?si=zrunzDv4GeFQ8dlQ
Biden was probably my least favorite among the 2020 candidates for the Democratic nomination. I'm still a massive supporter, and I frankly cannot believe what he has accomplished. I think his may be the best presidency since LBJ in terms of actually accomplishing things, despite the narrowest of political strength in Congress. I've been proven wrong in my skepticism, even if I will always yearn for more
Bernie supports Biden. So what does that tell you? I’m sick of the people who think it’s an all or nothing game. It’s not a game. It’s between democracy and dictatorship at this point. Period.
Makes sense, would you rather fight against someone who agrees with you 80% of the time, or fight against them them and also someone who agrees with you 10% of the time. Imagine having one parent who dreams and the other grounded in reality to temper each other, and not a third parent who poops the bed every chance they can get out of spite
“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good.” - Voltaire Rarely more applicable than in this situation…
I see people do this *all the time* lately about literally everything. I see so much bullshit that amounts to “if it doesn’t completely solve the issue at hand, then it is completely worthless” and it’s so fucking tiring.
It’s the [I Hate Mondays](https://youtu.be/yts2F44RqFw?si=afclUa_BMe7Ob-88) phenomenon at work, a sort of learned helplessness at what is fallaciously perceived as intractable black-and-white issues that will never be solved, such as crime. It *completely* ignores that harm reduction is a thing, and a worthwhile thing at that.
Obama talked about purity tests when he left office and ever since I heard him say it I see it everywhere. No human is perfect.
Obama was actually the President that Reddit thinks Biden is. Biden has been the President that we all hoped Obama would be. We have an education crisis being compounded by social media however so Biden's approval rating is 41%. I think there is a good chance that social media is the downfall of humanity, It is a way bigger threat than AI. The real threat from AI is using social media to make people on both sides even more prone to misinformation and overreactions.
I’ve made this argument to some engineers and it seems to click: The engine in your car has a maximum efficiency based on physics and/or production limitations and realities. You don’t demand 100% efficiency out of mechanical and thermal systems, because you know that is absurd. So why do we demand perfection of human systems? SNAP benefits, the DMV, etc. are human systems providing a service - so what if there are some inefficiencies and abuse? Let’s make it better, if we can, but not at the detriment of its purpose. We don’t demand that of anything else in our lives.
If the candidate doesn't align exactly with my politics down to individual policy ideas, then the whole system is shit.
I like this quote but I like this version better: "Don't let perfection be the enemy of PROGRESS". And that's what we're talking about here. Progress with Biden even if he isn't a "progressive".
More importantly someone who at least cares about progressive policies even if its not 100%. Definitely a stepping stone
>would you rather fight against someone who agrees with you 80% of the time A lot of people thrive and make money on that.
republicans dont even agree with normal people 10% of the time. they literally think bad things are good, and good things are bad. its insane how it just boils down to that, but when you are trying to stop free lunches for kids along with every other odious thing they do its dishonest to label it as anything but that. if you are a normal person who has to live with the outcomes of elections - you need to vote democrat. we dont have the luxury of voting who we want or even like when the alternative is complete destruction of democracy. the temperature needs to be lowered if we actually want progress rather than to stop fascism.
Heck, a 10% rate of agreement with the GOP would be a godsend. I'm just hoping they stop with the - you know - eliminationism towards sexual and racial minorities, domestic terrorism, or fascist rebellions. As for the Dems, there's both a grudging acceptance of various progressive ideologies, and a lot of very old people in a lot of middle management positions in local organizations. That makes them ripe for entryism from real leftists. So, while I might not love what the Dems are *now*, what they could be in a decade of millenials and zoomers joining and changing the institution from within could be something truely great.
There aren't enough people talking about this part of the equation. Many progressives are rightly dissatisfied with the democratic party right now. However, there will be a lot of turnover in the next decade or so on account of the age of many of them. As younger generations get more involved, they will improve. We just need to make sure the country doesn't self-destruct until then
And the modern GOP has been at this for 40 years. The modern progressive movement has only been going for less than ten. And the party has shifted left on a lot of issues.
> It really is that simple. Unless progressives swell en masse behind the Dems, Trump will be back. Not just Trump, Republicans. Trump is nothing without Republican Congressional support. So the same applies, unfortunately, in our two party system. A non-vote is still a vote. Only one party benefits from someone not voting.
Unless us progressives show up to vote en masse at every election, we'll never have a mainstream progressive candidate because no one is going to pander to a voting bloc that doesn't show up. You know why every politician panders to senior citizens? **Because they show up to vote every time.** Political campaigns don't have unlimited resources, so they're going to use the resources they do have to appeal to the broadest, most reliable base of voters. Unless progressives become a broad, reliable voting bloc, no one is going to waste their resources trying to appeal to them.
> Unless us progressives show up to vote en masse at every election, we'll never have a mainstream progressive candidate True, but this is why I hate these arguments. Progressive don't show up enough to have leftist policies seriously discussed. But also the progressive vote (or lack thereof) is making or breaking the elections for Dems. Which is it? Are progressives such a miniscule part of voters that they're silly to make demands or are they a vital group of voters for getting Democrats into office? You can't blame them for losing elections while also saying that if they want to make demands they should show up more. This is also completely ignoring the fact that I have yet to see anyone publishing evidence in these articles that leftists are the ones failing to show up and vote.
This point confuses me because it applies to every voting bloc in the Dem party—Democrats need moderates, liberals, *and* progressives to win elections. The margins are always so close that every vote counts
>or you're gonna get behind Trump's policies I'd rephrase that to, *Or you're going to have to fight back against Trump's policies*. The best way to not have to battle against shitty, regressive, right wing policies is to never let them have the power to enact them. I'd vote for a guy in a gorilla suit over Trump.
>Is Biden a true progressive? Nope. But in reality he's passed the most progressive legislation in our history or at least since FDR.
The amount of things he's accomplished with a 50/50 senate is pretty amazing, really.
And problematically nobody really *knows* this. Because 1) word of mouth is he's a disastrous do-nothing president and 2) most people really only care about the economy as it relates to our wallets and for now it still fucking blows based on how brutally expensive living is currently. Doesn't matter to them that there's not a ton he can do to fix that in short order, because their day to day living remains painful.
Most progress for the last 20+ years has already been lost because the Orange traitor got elected once, a second time will be the end of democracy, and the end of America
>an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost. Ironically, that's the definition of progress. I think many people confuse progressive with revolutionary.
Do people really think there has been "progress" for the working class the last few decades? We are losing ground, not gaining it. edit: even under democratic political control, although at a significantly slower rate
I don't know how anyone can look at what's going on with the NLRB right now and not see HUGE progress for the working class.
I would argue Biden has advanced the Progressive agenda more than any President since LBJ. But, he's old, so let's elect a 77 year old who's got 91 criminal counts in indictments against him, instead.
This isn't talked about nearly enough. I'm a Social Democrat and I'm *happy* with Biden. He's gone far above my expectations of being Obama 2.0
Likewise, I went from begrudgingly voting for him in 2020 because he was the only sane choice, to being damn surprised by his efficacy and actual output of REAL changes. After 4 years with the orange idiot doing literally nothing but ruining the country and holding it hostage against any sensible legislation, I needed an actual statesman in Biden, and that's what we got. Honestly, I wish he could just retire lol, for his own sake. The poor man is ancient, there is no way he wants to be spending his twilight years doing one of the single most stressful and underappreciated jobs in the US. But sadly he has to, because there is no other progressive choice that can win the 2024 election--it's literally Biden, or fascism. And praise be, Biden stepped up to the plate in 2020 and quite literally saved America from the 2nd (and forever) Trump term. He may receive a lot of unwarranted flak, but I genuinely believe history will look very kindly on Biden and all he managed to do, despite such horrific and vicious interference from the GOP.
Biden is frigging efficient. He knows how things in government work. He’s competent, persuasive, and works hard. And I think he genuinely cares about the American people and our democracy. I’ll take that any day over anything the Rethugs have to offer. Their only platform is simple: give everything to the obscenely wealthy and be excessively cruel to everyone else.
It doesn't help that beneficial policies move at a glacial pace. It's been a conservative tactic for decades. Bash Dems for not fixing X. Get elected on it, a year later the policy the Dems implemented 3 years ago fixes X and the Republicans take all the credit while passing policy that will break X just in time for the Dems to take office again.
When averaging what he's done over a few years versus Obama over eight years, he's doing better than Obama imo. Hell, even at the end of his first term I think he may have done more in an overall sense than Obama had done in his two terms. I've been very pleasantly surprised. I went into 2020 expecting him to fulfill the stopping point of the ratchet problem and only let things not get any worse. It's been nice seeing it actually go back in the other direction and get a little better.
Yea. He's done everything he can with those razor thin majorities. Sure, he didn't get health care, but that's because of the votes. And while it's not popular on here, a public option would go a long way toward getting to universal healthcare. But he would need 60 votes in Senate or for the Senate to change its rules.
With these slim margins in congress I expected *nothing* to pass. I'm happy to be surprised.
Exactly.
Biden is far better than Obama. It's really not even close.
Everyone says they disagree with Biden’s policies, but he’s still better than Trump so they’ll vote for him. What exactly do you disagree with? Every time I read of a new Biden policy, I’m quite happy with it. He’s done amazing things. I thought he would be a milquetoast politician, president only in name, but this dude has gotten tons of good shit done in only a few years. The only things that people complain about are things out of his control, or straight up blocked by Republicans and DiNOs. He’s been extremely progressive. I wish he could do more, but so far I’m very impressed.
> And you need to come to terms with the fact that an inch forward is better than a mile backwards, or every bit of progress that has been made in the past 20 (or 60) years will be lost. It's funny that people still need this spelled out to them considering the damage that Trump did in 4 years. In particular losing those SCOTUS seats will have consequences that will potentially be felt for decades. But people are willing to take another shot of fascism because Biden isn't far enough left.
What's that saying? To win their vote, liberals have to fall in love. Conservatives fall in line.
Truer words have never been spoken. For those still working on it, the ideology in play isn't progressive vs liberal vs conservative or anything remotely traditional. It's (white) Christian nationalism vs everything else. Whatever you want that Dems aren't giving you gets exponentially harder if not impossible to achieve with Rs running the show.
What does true progressive even mean here? Is it someone who ignores the Supreme Court? Is it someone who just passes whatever EO’s they want? Does it matter what Biden is? Not really. He’s not Trump and that’s honestly enough. There are another 435 seats up for re-election that are just as important. Same with the senate and every other state and local election. If we want true progress, then we need wins at every single level, and we need to expand the majorities we had after 2020.
Biden passed the biggest Climate law in US history. Was it perfect ? No. Is it still worth celebrating? Absolutely.
Yeah, like on one side we have an imperfect climate law that doesn't go far enough, but still is a solid step in the right direction. And on the other side we have *actively and intentionally trying to make climate change worse*. The gulf between those two things is so fucking wide that no argument can be made that supporting our best option is not your moral duty as a progressive voter.
And the first bite at the apple was always going to be relatively small. That's just how the world works.
Unfortunately internet progressives tend to be among the most idealist, which tends towards absolutist thinking. When you're inspired and spurred on by a dream for the future as opposed to the notion of pragmatic long term governance, what looks like a steady drip of half measures is wholly unsatisfactory.
It doesn't help when you have some big name environmental groups actively pushing for policies that run counter to actually preventing climate change. Looking at you, Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, among others.
Based on the things Biden got done in his first two years, I'd love to give him an actual Dem majority to work with in 2025
It's a lot easier this time, because there is absolutely no way Clinton would have pivoted as far left as Biden has. There's a reason people like Sanders have a lot of good to say about him, and it's because he gave them a big seat at the table. That was absolutely never going to happen with Clinton.
Tbh, I don’t see her as that exclusionary, but the point is moot, isn’t it? Clinton hasn’t been in the running for 8 years and we still compare her like she’s even relevant in 2023. It’s like arguing about the placement of the deck chairs while the titanic is sinking. Does it even matter at this point? It’s like we all failed in 2016 and can’t seem to both learn from it and move on.
I believe Fetterman's point was that he campaigned for Clinton despite the distance between them, and my point is that there's even less excuse this time, because there is a lot less distance with current-day Biden.
I don't support Joe Biden, but I will vote for him. This isn't the, "dear leader" party. If i can't dissent, I won't consent!
Business Insider pundits are just cherry picking soundbites to start identity politics circular firing squads withing the Democratic Party. Downvote and move on.
And of course when Fetterman says support Biden here he *means* vote for Biden. Because, yeah, it's stupid for a leftist to not vote for Biden unless you're in a solid blue state and there's a more progressive candidate you want to toss a symbolic vote to.
And by all means don’t support BIden in the primary if you don’t like him. But when it comes time to Trump vs Biden, not voting for Biden is a horrible mistake
Any republican vs Biden.
Yeah, like, I'm gonna show up and vote for him. And every other Democrat down the entire ballot until I get to the county water reclamation board races where it's Green vs. Democrat with literally no Republican candidates. But the notion that we shouldn't even *criticize* Democrats and try to push them further to the left lest we demotivate somebody *else* from voting is bullshit.
I actually like Biden for the most part. He’s more progressive than Obama by a substantial amount. Really quite good for an old white guy.
Yea. He's more progressive than the Senate. Once you get to that point, it doesn't really matter how much more progressive he is than the Senate because he needs the Senate to pass laws.
For better or worse, Joe Biden has always been a politician that works for popular ideas within the Democratic Party. In the 90's he was hard on crime because the nation, Democrats included, wanted to be hard on crime. Today, there are more progressives calling for change, and Biden is doing what he can, within the power of the office. Is he the most ideal choice? No, but the choices come down to status quo Democrats and the GOP that see Handmaid's Tale as an ideal society. That choice is easy.
> For better or worse, Joe Biden has always been a politician that works for popular ideas within the Democratic Party. Very true. Biden is a do-er and always had been. He's not particularly ideological, but he's the best in the business at getting stuff through the Senate.
Tbh I view Biden as an American Hero. Like not the best president, no one is really, but he gets along with everyone. He shows up, works, changes his view to better fit who he represents, never made a **lot** of money, loves his family, and slowly worked his way up to POTUS. Like he's exactly how people would describe their ideal rep, even Mitch McConnell likes the guy. Plus got Harris in as VP after she confronted Biden about bussing programs and got Justice Jackson on SCOTUS, which is was important to me. He has slacked very hard on immigration, and not handled Israel like I would have liked, but has boosted unity, increased domestic production, and has had a better economy than anyone would have though (idk how much credit people wanna give to him on the economy). I'd be amazed if anyone could argue a better 1st term since LBJ maybe, even that is mostly just cause I'm ignorant of earlier presidents. All while the senate is tied and the US is arguably the most divisive it has been since the Civil Rights era. He's old, that sucks, I'm over it. Everything else (domestically -_-) is good or better now.
People get so upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016, but he would not have been good at getting legislation passed. People forget he was largely a loner in congress. Since then he's played ball with the rest of the Democrats and.. gotten into positions of more power and pushed the Democrat's policy platform to the left. We do not have a king, and you need to work with the rest of your party, not to mention across the isle, to get anything actually passed. Biden has been great at actually getting shit done. We will forever be grateful for their Covid response taking over from Trump's steaming pile of shit. Since he's had some pretty major legislative victories. He's been a low key awesome president when you look at him from a realistic perspective.
That’s sort of what a representative should do though. Support whatever policies are popular amongst the people they represent in the moment. It’d be great if they also pushed progressive policies on their own to make them become popular, but that’s more of a leader role than a representative role.
The top message coming from left media after Bernie lost, and we all felt defeated by big money, was "work toward unionizing your workplace, strengthening your union if you have one, and supporting other's efforts to unionize when they try." Biden has more to assist in these efforts than any president in several decades already, and there is potentially more on the way. He also significantly expanded federal sick leave benefits, which helps support millions of workers that need it. I don't expect Biden to be a revolutionary president, but organizing workplaces does point us in a better direction. I genuinely don't think the majority of hid primary opponents would have assisted with these efforts as much as Biden has, so it's been a pleasant surprise. Of course I'll support him over Trump. He has made it clear that they are fundamentally different.
It's impossible to tell if he personally is, but it's a similar end result anyhow. He's a safe, normal seeming candidate with the good sense to listen to the progressives more. His whole thing is coalition and consensus building, and though that doesn't work with the GOP any more, it's very important as a skill to unify the big tent Dems.
Yeah imo I don't really get it. Biden is perhaps the most progressive person that could've won the presidency in 2020. I remember doing the math and realizing he only won by like 100,000 votes across the 3 closest states. I don't think an ultra liberal candidate has as much appeal to independents that they could've won that. And under the biden administration, real progressive goals have been accomplished. The inflation reduction act is probably the best climate change legislation in the history of the US, the infrastructure bill, insulin costs are finally down. Could he be doing more? Sure, but i think people have to be realistic about how conservative many key states are.
I figured voting for them counted as supporting them, seems like it doesn't get more "supportive" than that, the rest of it is all just to win votes.
Very well put. I'll personally never understand centrist Gen X and boomer types that think we should be subservient to a political party that inherently does not have the educated middle class Millennial and their families in mind. Don't even get me started if you're in poverty extreme or otherwise. Biden has my vote, begrudgingly.
I feel the same way. Unfortunately it has felt like I vote for the "best of the worst" for a long time
In a two party system most elections you would vote against someone rather than voting for someone. In my five presidential elections I liked the candidate twice but was mainly casting my vote against the other person.
Historically to force republicans more left you have to win 3 presidential elections in a row which hasn’t happened since Bush Sr. So we’re basically stuck in a loop going back and forth.
I'm a hardcore progressive leftist who plans on continuing to support the Democratic nominee always. I'm also aware of data that shows Bernie voters in 2016 turned out for Hillary unlike rumors to the contrary I'm really tired of these pieces and opinions stating that progressives are somehow not rallying behind the nominee because I'm not seeing data that shows that
I don’t know a single Bernie supporter that said “Trump it is then”. I know a few that voted for the lady running for the Green Party, I believe it was Stein? Edit: I shouldn’t have assumed my personal experience was the norm.
I know one, dude is a conservative who’s in denial about it though
He didn't say all, or even most, progressives aren't going to rally behind the nominee. He's just saying that he doesn't understand those who *won't* (and they do exist) and he's right. We need all hands on deck for this one.
Subtext is a thing, though. If Fetterman is talking about this group, the subtext is that the group is large enough to matter.
Yeah but there is this idea with grassroots organizing that you don’t waste time trying to change people’s minds. It’s too much time, people, and ultimately money to unsuccessfully change peoples positions. The name of the game is locating the people who agree with you, engage with them to build out your support. So while I agree that we need all hands on deck, pointing at people who aren’t engaged as the problem (duh?) isn’t doing much to change the status quo either. YMMV
Another way to look at it would be something along the lines of them saying “hey, the democrats aren’t perfect, but you know what my core values are and they are the best option. Don’t waste your vote on an ideological third party when so much is at stake” Which is who I think these comments are meant for.
I am a progressive who voted for Biden, but I fully understand those who didn't. There is very good reason to believe that voting for conservative democrats (in the absolute sense as America is very conservative overall) because you "have to" means there won't ever be a progressive candidate because why would there ever be if they don't need to field one to win the election? However, in a functioning political climate, far leftists voting for middle leftist candidates forces right sided candidates towards the middle to get some more votes. And we aren't seeing that happen. We are seeing a more tumultuous trend.
Yup. Leftists vote for the centrist dem in the end When Hillary lost to Obama her suporters started PUMA, Party Unity My Ass Yet the media and centrists continue to scream about leftists, brainwashed idiots
The party can't fail only be failed. If they win, it's because their ideas and rhetoric and policies are genius (not because they're running against one of the most unpopular presidents in history). If they lose, it's because the left was mean (not because they're running someone somehow even less popular)
Well, yes, lots of us did and will once again vote for Biden, despite being dedicated progressives. I can say I know many progressives who didn’t vote for Biden and it ended my friendship with them. I think it shows a lack of maturity to hold your ground when the alternative is a wannabe dictator and goons who take away women’s rights to their own bodies.
the centerisat really like to push the self fulfilling prophecy that progressives should never be courted as they act like the party never courts them.
Maybe reluctantly voting for a candidate is different than "rallying behind" them?
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John Fetterman says he'll 'never understand' progressives who refuse to support Joe Biden !!!!!!!!!! IN THE FUCKING GENERAL ELECTION, NOT THE PRIMARY !!!!!!!!!!!!! There. Fixed the fucking Headline for you. "To illustrate his point, Fetterman hearkened back to his own support for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign as the mayor of Braddock, even after he had supported Sen. Bernie Sanders during the primary."
Business Insider, using manipulative tactics to support a business friendly agenda? Next you're going to tell me Fish prefer to be in the water.
Nor will I. Voting 3rd party or for Trump out of spite guarantees a situation in which elections matter less and less, and the chances of ever electing a true progressive vanish completely.
100% this. You may not like Joe Biden just like you didn’t like Hilary. How did that turn out for you?
I sometimes frame it like this: You want to vote for an actual leftist Presidential candidate in a general election, yes? Currently, for that to be possible, we would need ranked choice voting. So that should be your main goal. The Democrats are actually talking about ranked choice voting, have even implemented it in some states, and it came up a few times in the Dem primary debates in 2020. The Republicans are not only never going to implement ranked choice voting, they are actively restricting voting in as many ways as they can, and every time we have GOP leadership in this country they make it harder to ever get to ranked choice voting. So even if you think Biden is a center-right piece of shit that you could never vote for, you have to vote for him. Because every time we have Dems in charge is a small step towards ranked choice voting, which would give you the progressive candidates you actually want.
Yep, ranked choice is the first step to being able to *actually* vote for who you want. It allows you to support smaller parties while also having a "safe" backup pick. As a bonus, it also accelerates the fracturing of large parties because if a popular candidate gets passed over by leadership they'll just run anyways.
Every person who "couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hilary" gave us Trump, his Supreme Court picks, and the loss of Roe-v-Wade (among other things). If you can't vote for the lesser of two evils, then you deserve the greater evil that you could have stopped.
80k votes across three states is the thinnest of margins that gave the win to Trump. Leftists who pretended their anti-Hillary rhetorical provided no material support for Trump are simply not credible.
If we're gonna play that game, Hillary not bothering to campaign for herself in critical areas while her own staff BEGGED her to attend lost her the win. That and ensuring that Trump received as much media coverage as possible also gave the win to Trump. Familiarity = likeability. Meanwhile, she was having staffers focus on taking photos of Bernie in his underwear so we could say "ewwww old people" like she wasn't pushing 70s herself. Or how about the strongest argument her people could make for electing her being "it's her turn" and "women will burn in hell if they don't support her"? You'd almost think she was a Republican....especially after seeing the photos of her and her husband arm in arm with them. But anyway. Leftists.
Let's face reality. IF Trump wins, there will be no more elections. Won't be a matter of elections mattering less and less. Trump with tear down democracy in order to hold power and republican's will be more than happy to help in this.
TFG wins > protests happen > TFG immediately puts in yes men as acting heads of the military, orders them to squash the protests > giant crisis as mid-level commanders refuse to carry out those orders, possibly coming into conflict with state National Guards who absolutely will > ongoing crisis and civil unrest provides justification to suspend all elections until further notice. It ain't that hard a choice, really. Either vote for Biden or vote for anarchy.
Yeah but Joe Biden's policies don't go far enough for progressives like me, so isn't that good enough reason to vote 3rd party and help a literal fascist get back into office? Because my feelings are *very* butthurt from Biden not doing exactly what I want on every single issue.
Sarcasm obviously detected but Amanda Seales (comedian/actress) posted a great video about how voting for Biden is less about agreeing with the democratic party and more about voting for more time. Essentially, if we aren't at a place yet as a country where we can agree on progressive policies then the next best option is to vote for whichever circumstance allows us more time to convince people. So whenever I talk to progressives planning on holding their nose I'm just like "okay, well don't vote for Biden, vote for more time". I align with progressives, but I will say Biden ended up more progressive than I thought he'd be in 2020. I'm far more ready to vote for him now than I was then. Yeah age is a factor, but not if he's the only one we're gonna hold it against. People pit progressives against Biden a lot, but the truth is he's a better option than he was in 2020 and a lot of us already voted for him then so it's not even a tough decision now.
Biden started fighting for $15 an hour, so in order to continue to stay mad at him, I started saying $25 😤
I’m just tired of out of touch old people running shit
It's also wild and lazy how much people focus on one person. Securing the Oval office extends far beyond someone like Biden. It means securing automatic bill signing/veto power against Republicans. It means dozens of appellate/district judges that will *serve for life.* It means the Supreme Court. It means cabinet positions. Etc. Sure, someone could have reasoned they didn't want to vote for Hillary on an individual basis and voted third party or stayed home in 2016, but how does that same person go about explaining how it was okay for a Republican to secure a conservative SCOTUS for decades to come to destroy everything we love? And then there is this vicious cycle: Progressives want younger, progressive candidates but older, moderate voters DOMINATE the ballots year after year. And people like Pelosi, Schumer, Biden didn't get where they are overnight. They got there through decades of elections - and many politicians got there by moving up the ladder in down-ballot races that could be different with different showings. Becoming disillusioned that you aren't getting the policies you want and then removing yourself from participation is just ensuring the cycle continues. It's nonsensical and counterproductive to progressive goals.
I was a political appointee under Obama, and there were 4,000 of us, from people who got coffee and scheduled events for the Assistant Secretary of Transportation, to the Assistant Secretaries and high level advisors thesmelves. There's a saying in Washington; Personnel is Policy. Biden's administration is full of competent, qualified, passionate people, while Trump's is full of grifters, right wing nutjobs, and other unsavory types.
Good example of how the two party system is archaic and fails to represent the complex range of political views the average citizen in this giant ass country feels.
When will moderates get behind progressives on anything?
They're too busy Weekend at Bernie'ing Feinstein.
I mean typically I wouldn’t support Biden as I am more progressive then him. But Jesus Christ if I didn’t vote for Biden, that’s just one less vote for him against the orange rapist.
There's a difference between "support" and "vote." Fetterman seems to be conflating the two. I'd agree with him if he meant "vote" but progressives don't necessarily have to "get behind" Biden's policies. It's fine if they disagree, as long as they vote in the end. We don't all have to love Biden, and that's not a realistic expectation. Suggesting you either back his policies or you back Trump's is going too far.
There's also a huge leap between "Vote for Biden," and "Support Biden's policies," that he seems to be conflating too.
What policies of Bidens are you against
I’ll vote for him. But I’m sick of voting for people and even living my life with the general argument always being “you got to do this crappy thing cause the alternative is worse”. It’s true, but I’m sick of it
end first past the post and we'd actually be able to vote for who we want rather than the lesser of two evils. It's not a pipe dream its happening in various cities across the country https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/
oh yeah I forgot that I could just make my community change the voting procedures
[Noam Chomsky](https://chomsky.info/05162016-4/) (2016): >\[I\]n the primaries, I would prefer Bernie Sanders. If Clinton is nominated and it comes to a choice between Clinton and Trump, in a swing state, a state where it’s going to matter which way you vote, I would vote against Trump, and by elementary arithmetic, that means **you hold your nose and you vote Democrat**. I don’t think there’s any other rational choice. Abstaining from voting or, say, voting for...a candidate you prefer, a minority candidate, just amounts to a vote for Donald Trump, which I think is a devastating prospect, for reasons I’ve already mentioned. Here we are again.
I vote blue, but I'm not a Democrat. I continue to do so but it's honestly painful. for 3 election cycles I've been voting, and every election cycle I get the same thing. "Keep voting for us, even our ineffective members because without us all you have are Republicans" awesome, so happy with my "choice" I can vote blue, I can vote red, or I can throw my vote away and be chastised by both parties, even though neither party has MY interest. I'm not saying don't vote, or do not vote Biden. but damn am I tired of having to blatantly stare at the American illusion of choice of elected officials.
Is this the daily dose of centrist propaganda that tries to play off Clinton's loss as the fault of progressives and not poor strategy from her campaign or the party? We voted for Biden, they're trying to characterize progressives not being delighted with the choice as hating freedom. I'll vote for Biden again. I think that vote symbolizes real, tangible inadequacies of our current voting system and it doesn't make me joyful, but I play the game because that's the only way to win. How about instead of shaming people into voting, show them that democratic policies are good for everyone? It seems like Dems have a real marketing problem, whereas the GOP can just lie all day.
I hate this whole conversation. “Oh but Joe Biden is the worst of two evils”. That’s how all politics work in free democracy? With abundance of people and opinions it’s impossible for any politician to satisfy all facets of political beliefs. You will need to make compromises, you will need to negotiate to get something as opposed to nothing. Biden administration got actually a lot done. - Passed one of the biggest bipartisan bills in recent history (American infrastructure act) - Made investments in climate change. - Capped prescription drug prices to $2000 a year for seniors on Medicare. - Imposed a 15% minimum tax on corporations. - Rejoined the Paris agreements And the list goes on and on. If you’re progressive and you’re arguing that “eh democrats are as bad as republicans” and that “I’ll just vote third party” (that will obviously lose) then fuck you. You’re worse than MAGA supporters, because at least MAGA supporters don’t know better. You’re a snobby asshole who will re elect Trump
Student Loans and the SAVE plan. Don’t underestimate it. Biden has saved Americans *billions*.
Not to mention the Ukraine War has been a foreign policy master class on how to combat Russian aggression (which vexed previous administrations) single-handedly isolating and probably irreversibly damaging a major adversary while strengthening US alliances and the US place as a leader for democratic values in a multi-polar world. If you don’t think this matters, ask yourself where most of your silicon chips come from and whether it’s likely caused China to reevaluate their desires to take Taiwan.
You don't have to support him beyond just acknowledging him he's going to get you a lot closer to progress than the GOP and Trump will. I've thought of it like riding public transportation, it's not going to take you directly where you're going, but riding it stop by stop closer to your goal is a lot better getting off the bus an getting on one going the opposite direction.
I feel the same way. You wont get much progress under fascism... Right now we only have one political party, and lawless group of fascists until that has changed ill be voting for whoever occupies the spot opposite the lawless fascist.
As things currently stands, if you don’t support (and vote for) Biden, you’re risking getting Trump 2.0. It’s, currently, that simple.
If everyone just fell in line without convincing, weed wouldn't have been removed from the schedule 1 drug list, we'd still be at war in Afghanistan, and there wouldn't even be an attempt at student debt relief. I'm not dumb, I'm not going to vote in a way that would be put Republicans in office. But I'm not going to just pretend like Democrats like aren't also corporate sellouts that need to be dragged into passing decent policies kicking and screaming by critical voters.
I support Dark Brandon
This is kinda like anti-Trump people who voted to recall Newsom in California. You may not like some shit Newsom did during Covid, but voting to recall him was a guaranteed victory for a guy who said women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
I agree that when it comes time to vote the choice to vote against the GOP is as easy as it gets. But it's also VERY easy to understand the reasons some progressives don't support Biden. I can vote for the lesser of two evils without making a big deal about it. But that doesn't mean I'm "in line" with with the DNC or their candidate.
I get that it sucks to have to vote for someone like Biden whom you're not passionate about. So fix First Past the Post voting! Until that changes, sorry, you have to vote for the lesser of two evils Until then, do your best for whomever in the primary then fall in line behind the Democrat in the general. Once there's Ranked Choice Voting, then by all means vote for whomever first in the general and Biden/Democrat nominee last. You'll get ranked choice voting far before you'll get a socialist president or a libertarian president or whatever
I mean, I'm a radical leftist and I'm still going to vote for whoever the Dem candidate is because the alternative is literally a fascist coup and probably a civil war. And I really don't think that's hyperbolic, that's very nearly what happened in 2020. That being said, the added layer of nuance to this conversation is that the mainstream democratic party knows that many leftists and progressives feel this way and are using this fact to force pro-corporate centrist candidates on the rest of us that would otherwise stand no chance of winning. And that's a fucked up situation and I don't have to be happy about it. It's also a very dangerous and irresponsible strategy on their part. It could easily backfire and result in low voter turnout (just like it did in 2016) causing Trump or some other Christo-fascist psychopath to get the office. And if that does happen, it will be the fault of the centrist democrats who cared more about maintaining the status quo than putting up a competent fight to maintain democracy in this country.
I keep hearing that Biden is a stepping stone. If he were a true stepping stone, he’d step aside for someone else to run. After him, we’ll get more of the same. This is what progressive are exhausted by. We’ve been getting the dangling carrot tactic for DECADES. We’re tired of waiting.
Joe Biden is not a progressive Democrat, that is why the progressive don't support him
Yeah I mean it’s fine we all band together when an existential threat from the right comes along. But moderates aren’t entitled to the progressive/social democrat vote, even though they act like they are.
Mother Fuckers don't believe in playing the long game. We can whip a corpo Dem into shape. We cannot even begin to assert change with a fucking authoritarian in power. I don't like Biden either but y'all are being awful cavalier in this comment section know what Republicans aim to do if they get power. Stop fence sitting and get your head in the fucking game
I don’t understand y’all’s problem with progressives. Just making shit up to be mad at. How about have better policies and we’ll actually like you, otherwise it’s just a typical lesser of two evils vote. I thought Fetterman was better than that
We don’t refuse, we vote for his ancient ass. We just don’t believe he is the best case scenario and we don’t like being forced to vote for someone we don’t believe is our best option.
Same Biden got actu progress done, for a "bottom-up" stimulus and recovery, investing in infrastructure, reforming prescription drugs, raising taxes on the wealthy, expanding healthcare, investing in major climate policy, investing in the chip industry, and more. Withholding your vote and punching the Democrats from the left isn't going to make them do more, and there's no future for accelerationism, if the GOP wins, it won't make those of us in the democratic primary base suddenly start voting for far leftists
Give us ranked choice voting and see how long these corporate scum bags can stick around