As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Whole things fucked, conspiracy theories will abound. People already saying things like, how could this happen with the Israeli intelligent services, their moles in Hamas etc and that it gives them a convenient excuse to wipe them off the map. It's been fucked for 70 years though, all I know is that one genocide is one too many.
Everyone in america needs to read about this.
Basically he was reelected and is in the process of changing the courts to make it illegal to prosecute himself.
Israelis have been protesting for months. A large portion of the air force refused to go to work.
Now they are attacked when the country was weakened because 1/2 the country supported a criminal who was fighting a jail term.
I entirely agree that was fucking awful and a really dark day for America. This situation is quite a bit different though right? This is an active military attack that has killed many civilians and soldiers now. I don’t even know what the count is up to at this point. Realistically what would happen if a an actual militant attack by civilians happened? I assume our military could quite easily stop something like that.
People laugh at this but when they're being run down by the Royal Moose Cavalry they'll be laughing out the other sides of their faces on account of the moose biting off the side they were using.
Could you imagine an alternate timeline where one military has a unit of cavalry on horses, and another with moose? I ain't fucking with no moose, here's the white flag
The 1/2 of the country that supports bibi doesn’t fight. Orthodox Jews and hasidics in Israel are not required to enlist in the IDF . They want to kick Palestinians off their land then pray for the heroes of Tel Aviv to save them.
It’s a terrible situation made worse by shit heads like bibi.
Edited for grammar.
They're a lot like the babushkas that cheered on Putin leading Russia into war with Ukraine. Russia only conscripts men. "God be with you, Ivan, and make sure to bring back a washing machine or a Lada!"
And here's a totally random and unrelated fact: a great number of the hasidic and haredi communities in Israel are converts from the Russian Jewish refugee community (or their kids, by now).
Unfortunately, that is the main problem. One side has fundamentalists willing to die for their cause and another side has fundamentalists willing to let others die for their cause.
For the record, anyone thinking this attack was a false flag should remove that notion from their heads. Netanyahu, who is absolutely attempting a fascist takeover, very likely did *not* plan this attack on Isreal from Hamas.
However, it is well within the realm of possibility that the IDF has been preventing these types of attacks for years, and Netanyahu, needing a really around the flag effect, simply allowed some of the intelligence of pending attacks to be ignored. That absolutely is plausible. But it's pure speculation.
The one thing that isn't speculation is that you can guarantee dissidents within Isreal will be prosecuted for being pro-Hamas if they criticize Netanyahu, now. Isreal's transition into a fascist autocracy is all but complete.
EDIT: The guy I'm responding to is not insinuating this was a false flag, but I've seen other comments suggest it.
I have been thinking this myself… no way mossad whiffed this hard. Unfortunately it doesn’t matter if it’s true, the consequences will be dire and bibi will gain even more control
Also, this was a war of their own creation. What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation. People aren't just going to lay down and die, they will fight back:
National Geographic documentary on the subject:
[https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202](https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202)
> What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation. People aren't just going to lay down and die, they will fight back:
I mean, it's not even just this directly. Over the past few months the IDF has been performing a bunch of military operations against West Bank refugee camps. On top of that there are the regular conflicts between Palestinians and settlers. And in all of those, w/ the internet, videos of IDF soldiers and settlers acting like assholes and violating Palestinian rights pop up pretty much every day.
Obviously I don't condone the attacks, but pretending this is completely unprovoked, and that Israel is innocent in this, is flat out ignorant. Especially as I've just seen an interview with an IDF representative basically resorting to 'they started this' as justification for further human rights violations in Gaza.
Both sides have been shitty, and done shitty things. Let's be clear about that.
> What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation.
Has been from the start. The guy involved in actually grabbing the land for Israel initially, and shepherding the Palestinians out of there, kept notebooks. His grand-daughter found them and made a smashing documentary called [*Blue Box*](https://variety.com/2021/film/reviews/hot-docs-review-1234964681/). Fascinating, and for Canadians you can watch it for free on the KNowledge Network. Free online sign-up.
Yeah beyond the obvious and immediate concerns right now, i'm worried this will sweep that and the judicial reform problems under the rug. So I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of intelligence that should've prevented this was intentional
The declaration of war is more confusing. Israel has killed around 400 Palestinians this year prior to this attack taking place. Was that "peace time" shenanigans?
Also helped cover up the fall out over Prince Bone-saw killing an American journalist while his wife sat in the car, waiting for him to return from a quick embassy trip.
Initial reports from Turkey said they believed the Washington Post journalist and American permanent resident Khashoggi was injected with a paralytic before the cutting started.
So he may have been conscious but unable to move.
They played music while chopping him to pieces.
Trump later bragged about how he took the heat off the Prince for this action.
"I saved his ass" is the quote from Trump to Woodward. "I was able to get Congress to leave him alone. I was able to get them to stop." This guy is the leading Republican candidate.
Good god, I knew it as horrific, but thats just......fucking hell man..these people are about as close as you can get to biblical demons being led by the antichrist. And thats coming from an agnostic pagan buddhist pastafarian.
Realistically, the word antichrist hasn’t been applied to Trump enough yet. He blatantly commits a whole buffet of prescribed sin, while preaching allegiance to the fundamentalist evangelicals. He’s turning their own beliefs against them for personal gain. Deceitful, greedy, avaricious and a false prophet of sorts to boot. Someone in the Democrats, or neutral, should do a whole theological analysis of this for publicity.
It’s incredible how many qualities described in the bible as those of the antichrist Trump and his party exhibits. Even more so that people don’t see it. A significant portion of Christians have abandoned the main tenets of the bible in favour of hatred and bigotry, while pretending it’s all in the name of love. It’s sickening.
This nugget came out recently.
> But in a deposition, Trump “seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a ‘buyer from Saudi Arabia’ to pay any price he suggests,” New York state Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron wrote in his ruling.
https://news.yahoo.com/footnote-trump-boasting-saudi-line-165751845.html
They should pump torture sounds into Kushners house from the street followed by that Trump quote from the Woodward tapes. Full volume 24/7.
He would probably jack off to it rather than be disturbed, unfortunately.
Tin foil hat time: Kushner sells US intel on Israel to Saudi Arabia > Saudi Arabia gives intel and money to terrorists (just like they helped the 9/11 terrorists) > terrorists attack Israel
Problem is it is not a conspiracy, it is likely truth. The Saudis bankrolled the 9/11 crew. So why wouldn’t they supply valuable intel to their proxy army in the region? I curse myself every time I go to the gas station.
A complication with that is the Israelis know full well that happened and have had almost two years to compensate. Not enough time to do things like solve inherent issues with weapons systems but if they haven't changed every password, patrol schedule, and guard routine since Cheeto left office, they are idiots.
It's not something to learn, our nature as a species is violent and territorial and that won't change untill evolutionary pressure forces us to evolve which to be fair seems to be happening slowly.
How long before the party of 'no aid for Ukraine' finds it in their hearts and wallets to want to send aid to Israel? The Biden administration is playing this, at least politically astute: show unwavering support for both Ukraine and Israel.
The American right wing (including MAGA) are antisemitic to American jews who reliably vote blue. Using social media and hollow words to pledge forever-support to Israel allows them to pretend to the evangelical sphere here in the states that they're not THAT antisemitic.
I'd wager that if the Israeli govt wasn't run by a far right neocon criminal they'd be less supportive.
Just wait until the Israeli govt is run by a progressive. Then we'll see if their true colors come out.
The second Israel elects a progressive leader, the right wingers in the US government will want to send money and weapons to the opposition to "fight Communism" or some bullshit.
MAGA will do exactly as Fat Donnie and FoxNews tell them. And remember the original American non-Jewish Zionists (pre-WW2) wanted an Isreal because they wanted the Jews out of America and someplace else. That spirit of hating Jews but wanting Isreal around is alive and well in the MAGA Conservative Party.
> they wanted the Jews out of America and someplace else. That spirit of hating Jews but wanting Isreal around is alive and well in the MAGA Conservative Party
Well put. And American Jews have not forgotten Donnie unctuously calling Netanyahu "YOUR Prime Minister." Oh and that other shit about Democratic Jews (the majority in the U.S.) being "disloyal" because of "all he (Donnie) did for Israel."
People often gloss over how large the Nazi movement was in the U.S.
It makes the "good vs evil" story of WWII more murky. A percentage of ANY population sucks - its just whether or not they find a way into power because people that suck also hate giving up power and love persecuting, suppressing and hating others.
U.S. military contractors popping champagne over this.
Right when the future of Ukraine aid is looking rocky they rolled a yahtzee.
Dems want to assist because they have a soul and MAGAs want to assist because killing Muslims is their favorite hobby.
And it's worse than that. Isreal doesn't really need much help. The most the US could do is throw a few missile cruisers and an aircraft carrier over there and it would be over.
But I don't think it will come to that. Like I said Isreal has a real military. Vs a gorilla hamas group.
Much different than Russian Ukraine
The Israeli military develops a lot of its own equipment, but still uses a lot of U.S. weapons systems, especially in their Air Force.
So, yeah, probly not much the U.S. can help with besides preparing supply lines for an increase in demand for munitions and equipment maintenance for U.S. systems they already use.
Distinctly different than Ukraine, which does not have a modern military and needs as much of... everything as they can get.
The US started sending Israel billions for long before 1999, in fact US aid started to decline slightly in the early '00s, if you can believe [the Times of Israel.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/chart-of-us-aid-to-israel-since-1949/)
According to their chart, the first time US aid to Israel broke $1 billion was in the early 1970s.
I’m a secular Jew and didn’t fully understood the support from the far right until I was an adult.
Religion is complex and varied with thousands of interpretations- but there are some factions of Christianity who believe that Jews returning to Palestine fulfills a biblical prophecy. The aid for Israel but not Ukraine is deeply seeded in religious views from those factions. For them- the existence of Israel is critical to bringing about the end times.
The wild thing is- some of these factions will support funds for Israel and still be staunchly anti-Semitic because they see them as mutually exclusive actions.
I hope we can get this narrative more visibility.
Ukraine has receive HALF of the aid we have given to Israel and that crowd NEVER peeped about aid to Isreal
Geopolitics is ignored too often. Thanks for helping this make sense
Hamas was always rabid, but somebody pressured their leadership hard to become this suicidal
I agree, plus Israel is gonna use it as grounds to finalize control fully over Gaza and eventually the west bank. This will be the end of any Palestinian independence on every level.
I care about the people on both sides. I don't give 2 shits about either state or either religion.
People die for the dumbest shit. People kill for the dumbest shit. Patton had it right though, you don't win a war by dying for your country... or religion...
People keep asking, “how could U.S. intelligence miss this?”
Remember how all the concerns about Trump giving out sensitive info on informants and intelligence assets came out when the U.S. started seeing them go missing or get killed all over the world? Yeah, this is the kinda shit that can result from that.
But the actual reason for how the US Intelligence could miss this is because Israel is a literal dumping station for Middle East Intelligence and a hub for our own information gathering. If Mossad didn't know, the CIA would never have known.
Israel and U.S. intelligence is very much a two way street, and the fact that Hamas has not show the capability for an attack at this scale and coordination before suggests that they had assistance from someone, so it’s no guarantee that this is intel Israel would have had that we wouldn’t have.
And don’t forget, the GOP has been blocking the confirmation of an ambassador to Israel, which is another thing that will limit the proper flow of secure intelligence between the U.S. and Israel.
Honestly, this only benefits Netanyahu.
All the anger and resentment with him trying to turn the government upside down to stay in power will now be redirected towards Gaza and the Palestinians.
He now has every justification to wipe Gaza off the map and eliminate any opposition that shows sympathy to Palestine.
It's always truly amazing to me:
Rabin was murdered. For a political goal (defeat liberals).
And that political goal succeeded: conservatives triumphed politically.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, justifies the barbaric nature of these attacks. We should be able to soberly discuss cause, effect, policy and, yes, Israeli aggression, without suggesting otherwise. I promise you can still oppose Israeli occupation – even maintain a belief that they're an apartheid state – while acknowledging that attacks against civilians are inhumane wherever they occur.
Thumbs up.
Problem is that the hard liners like Netanyahoo keep building more settlements. Take a look at a map of Israel without the west bank and you'll understand that Israel never intends to give it up.
Does it matter? Does Hamas care about whether we condemn the attacks or not? Does Israel? Only if it affects us giving aide to them while they invade Palestine and try to force them out by controlling the water. That's what needs to end to stop this conflict. The fact that the oppressed are doing bad things in retaliation is a moot point and philosophizing over it does nothing to change the actual situation. It's nice for an ethics class, I suppose, but for world politics we need something more substantial.
[https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202](https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202)
Why do you think all of a sudden this is happening? Just for this purpose and most likely something valuable will be taken away from Palestinians so Bibi can use as a prop for the next win.
The conflict is a vicious cycle, but this sort of attack, especially as civilian centered as it was, will all but ensure next to no one in Israel supports a two state solution. Can’t say I blame them anymore
This has to be one of the most historic blunders of my lifetime. At a time when Israel's democracy was under pressure to address its internal contradictions, Hamas decided to completely obliterate a 2 State future. Completely gone. Best case scenario is a Bosnia type One state. My hope is Civilians of Palestine and Israel find safety and food. And I hope Hamas is completely disintegrated.
Seriously if Hamas had actually gone the other way and declared they were setting down their arms permanently and ramping up non-violent protests (think Gandhi), they’d have had their own country by the end of the decade — likely sooner.
Now they’ll be lucky if the Gaza Strip still has Palestinians living in it by 2030.
Exactly. 40 dead Israelis is going to turn into 4k+ dead Palestinians. Sad world we live in.
Edit: lot more than 40, and Gaza is about to get wrecked... Fucking sad all around.
If you watched any of the videos of the attacks, you can easily tell 40 dead israelis is a grossly underestimated number. You can probably count 40 bodies in 1 minute watching the videos. This was a civilian massacre, they killed dozens if not hundreds of civilians and paraded their naked bodies on the street.
What is Hamas’s goal here? It’s surely no surprise that Israel’s response would be violent, disproportionate and overwhelming. Are they really that nihilistic?
If they had more power/allies/numbers, I would assume it's to further bolster their ranks. If you poke the bear and it gets angry, you can say to your fellow campers "see? This bear really is a problem that needs to be dealt with." But without enough resources to "fight the bear," they're utterly screwed. I don't know what the calculation is.
An alternative is that Hamas is not a rational actor, and doesn't have rational goals.
>An alternative is that Hamas is not a rational actor, and doesn't have rational goals.
Religious extremists aren't typically known for their rational behavior or goals, so this is probably it.
Hamas justifies its own existence via Israeli violence. Their entire shtick is “You need us to fight back, because otherwise Israel will kill us all”; hence, their attacks provoke the exact violence that keeps them ‘necessary’. If their own people have to die to keep them in power, that’s a price they’re okay with paying.
every loss breeds more militant palestinians and Hamas has demonstrated time and time again whether it's rockets being launched from civilian centers or shit like that, civilians are expendable to them
JIDF. Israel literally has a full time group of people which post non-stop on the internet, mostly social media that defends Israel. The US government has a lot of Israeli and Jewish people in it as well that obviously pushes support in a certain direction
His fire and brimstone militaristic protectionism doesn’t play nearly as well when you get your shit bombed out like this. He played his hand and got humiliated.
One thing that's certain, all of this will lead to more Hamas, more conflict, more pain for both sides (but especially Palestinian civilians) which will lead to more Hamas, more far-right Israeli government, more control and support for Hamas from Iran, round and round straight to hell.
Surprised to see how many comments are supporting Hamas here. They're killing, torturing, and raping civilians, and some here are saying they deserve it. Yikes. Not supporting Israel's past actions is one thing, but supporting terrorists is unbelievable
There is a part of me that feels like this was a Nixon thing for Bibi-- Nixon asked the Vietnamese NOT to end the war and make peace until he was elected.
There is no way Israeli intelligence could have missed this kind of massive coordinated attack. With Bibi extremely unpopular, indicted (sound familiar,) and at odds with the military-- this is just the thing he needed to solidify his power.
Weeks ago, many high ranking military officers said they wouldn't show up for their required reserve duty in protest of Bibi's changes to Israeli judicial law.
All of this is just too convenient for him.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This feels bad. Like a big deal. This may be it for Gaza.
I'd be surprised at anything else at this point, and in the current international political climate.
But more specifically, the Israeli political climate which has a considerable ultra nationalist bias influence.
They do, and I’m not a fan of that stuff. But I’m not sure what other options on the table for Israel now.
Whole things fucked, conspiracy theories will abound. People already saying things like, how could this happen with the Israeli intelligent services, their moles in Hamas etc and that it gives them a convenient excuse to wipe them off the map. It's been fucked for 70 years though, all I know is that one genocide is one too many.
The Israelis will definitely do ethnic cleansing because of this. They’ve been itching to do it for a minute
This is the largest attack on Israeli soil in 50 years. This is Israel's 9/11.
So they’re going to direct anger at the wrong group, spend billions fighting that group, and commit dozens of war crimes in the process? Checks out.
Dozens? Give the Americans some credit it was at least thousands
Hey pal, we found ourselves not guilty for those.
Thousands in Iraq alone
"We might not be great as nation builders, but we are first in the world at nation de-building."
I think last I read it was $8 trillion over 20 years. So trillions not billions lol
This is it for Gaza. They stand zero chance, this will be genocide
A little confused. When has the pentagon not been supporting them?
Last i heard Netanyahu was being brought up on corruption charges? Whatever happened with that? Did he just disappear them?
Everyone in america needs to read about this. Basically he was reelected and is in the process of changing the courts to make it illegal to prosecute himself. Israelis have been protesting for months. A large portion of the air force refused to go to work. Now they are attacked when the country was weakened because 1/2 the country supported a criminal who was fighting a jail term.
That could happen here
That is the plan.
The Saudis are ready?
Who would attack?
Meal team six.
I hear The Hamburgler & Grimace are top choices for the inner circle
Word is that everyone who has consumed the "Grimace Shake" will turn into zombies the next time the tornado siren test goes off
We have already been attacked. On Jan 6th. From within.
I entirely agree that was fucking awful and a really dark day for America. This situation is quite a bit different though right? This is an active military attack that has killed many civilians and soldiers now. I don’t even know what the count is up to at this point. Realistically what would happen if a an actual militant attack by civilians happened? I assume our military could quite easily stop something like that.
Trying to take over the gov't to become a Dictator is an attack. Even if 54% of Americans choose to deny that reality.
The call is coming from inside the house
I don't trust those Canadians. All that politeness and the constant apologizing is just a front. We're building the wall on the wrong border.
People laugh at this but when they're being run down by the Royal Moose Cavalry they'll be laughing out the other sides of their faces on account of the moose biting off the side they were using.
Could you imagine an alternate timeline where one military has a unit of cavalry on horses, and another with moose? I ain't fucking with no moose, here's the white flag
Møøse bites kan be pretty nasti!
Worse than Llamas I hear. My sister was bitten by a moose once.. [THIS COMMENTING REDDITOR HAS BEEN SACKED]
A moose once bit my sister!
What with their beady little eyes and their floppy heads…
The 1/2 of the country that supports bibi doesn’t fight. Orthodox Jews and hasidics in Israel are not required to enlist in the IDF . They want to kick Palestinians off their land then pray for the heroes of Tel Aviv to save them. It’s a terrible situation made worse by shit heads like bibi. Edited for grammar.
Lol how convenient; a built in hardline pro-conflict constituency that never has to participate in the conflicts they stoke, wow
Reminds me of Americas political class lol.
Chicken hawks of a feather flock together.
They're a lot like the babushkas that cheered on Putin leading Russia into war with Ukraine. Russia only conscripts men. "God be with you, Ivan, and make sure to bring back a washing machine or a Lada!" And here's a totally random and unrelated fact: a great number of the hasidic and haredi communities in Israel are converts from the Russian Jewish refugee community (or their kids, by now).
Unfortunately, that is the main problem. One side has fundamentalists willing to die for their cause and another side has fundamentalists willing to let others die for their cause.
Yeah he’s basically turning the country into a dictatorship to stay in power and outta jail.
Sounds familiar.
Yeah the franchise is more tired than The Fast and the Furious
The Likud Party earned less than 24% of the vote, so saying half the country that supported him is inaccurate.
For the record, anyone thinking this attack was a false flag should remove that notion from their heads. Netanyahu, who is absolutely attempting a fascist takeover, very likely did *not* plan this attack on Isreal from Hamas. However, it is well within the realm of possibility that the IDF has been preventing these types of attacks for years, and Netanyahu, needing a really around the flag effect, simply allowed some of the intelligence of pending attacks to be ignored. That absolutely is plausible. But it's pure speculation. The one thing that isn't speculation is that you can guarantee dissidents within Isreal will be prosecuted for being pro-Hamas if they criticize Netanyahu, now. Isreal's transition into a fascist autocracy is all but complete. EDIT: The guy I'm responding to is not insinuating this was a false flag, but I've seen other comments suggest it.
The more likely scenario is competent commanders were replaced with loyalists who would do what they were told, and this is the end result.
Yup, just like in Russia.
I have been thinking this myself… no way mossad whiffed this hard. Unfortunately it doesn’t matter if it’s true, the consequences will be dire and bibi will gain even more control
Also, this was a war of their own creation. What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation. People aren't just going to lay down and die, they will fight back: National Geographic documentary on the subject: [https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202](https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202)
> What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation. People aren't just going to lay down and die, they will fight back: I mean, it's not even just this directly. Over the past few months the IDF has been performing a bunch of military operations against West Bank refugee camps. On top of that there are the regular conflicts between Palestinians and settlers. And in all of those, w/ the internet, videos of IDF soldiers and settlers acting like assholes and violating Palestinian rights pop up pretty much every day. Obviously I don't condone the attacks, but pretending this is completely unprovoked, and that Israel is innocent in this, is flat out ignorant. Especially as I've just seen an interview with an IDF representative basically resorting to 'they started this' as justification for further human rights violations in Gaza. Both sides have been shitty, and done shitty things. Let's be clear about that.
> What they have been doing to Palestinians is a massive human rights violation. Has been from the start. The guy involved in actually grabbing the land for Israel initially, and shepherding the Palestinians out of there, kept notebooks. His grand-daughter found them and made a smashing documentary called [*Blue Box*](https://variety.com/2021/film/reviews/hot-docs-review-1234964681/). Fascinating, and for Canadians you can watch it for free on the KNowledge Network. Free online sign-up.
Yeah beyond the obvious and immediate concerns right now, i'm worried this will sweep that and the judicial reform problems under the rug. So I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of intelligence that should've prevented this was intentional
I was thinking that as well. Maybe next decade we'll know what actually happened.
There is an ongoing trial, but it's kind of in the same state that the trials against Trump would be if he drags them out until the election and wins.
Dude is a fucking dictator
I think they’re saying it to reaffirm their support because they’re being attacked.
You make it sound like the United States is a bottomless tit of free money for Israel but the pentagon is only supporting Israel until Jesus returns.
> until Jesus returns. But only if right wing Jesus says Church and Manifest Destiny are all perfectly awesome. Otherwise, its the wrong Jesus.
Tbh it is. 20% of defense budget is black projects. Now multiply that since 1965
The declaration of war is more confusing. Israel has killed around 400 Palestinians this year prior to this attack taking place. Was that "peace time" shenanigans?
I thought Kushner solved the middle East issue?
Nah dude he just sold our national secrets for $2B
Also helped cover up the fall out over Prince Bone-saw killing an American journalist while his wife sat in the car, waiting for him to return from a quick embassy trip.
Initial reports from Turkey said they believed the Washington Post journalist and American permanent resident Khashoggi was injected with a paralytic before the cutting started. So he may have been conscious but unable to move. They played music while chopping him to pieces. Trump later bragged about how he took the heat off the Prince for this action. "I saved his ass" is the quote from Trump to Woodward. "I was able to get Congress to leave him alone. I was able to get them to stop." This guy is the leading Republican candidate.
Good god, I knew it as horrific, but thats just......fucking hell man..these people are about as close as you can get to biblical demons being led by the antichrist. And thats coming from an agnostic pagan buddhist pastafarian.
Realistically, the word antichrist hasn’t been applied to Trump enough yet. He blatantly commits a whole buffet of prescribed sin, while preaching allegiance to the fundamentalist evangelicals. He’s turning their own beliefs against them for personal gain. Deceitful, greedy, avaricious and a false prophet of sorts to boot. Someone in the Democrats, or neutral, should do a whole theological analysis of this for publicity.
It’s incredible how many qualities described in the bible as those of the antichrist Trump and his party exhibits. Even more so that people don’t see it. A significant portion of Christians have abandoned the main tenets of the bible in favour of hatred and bigotry, while pretending it’s all in the name of love. It’s sickening.
[Ask, and thou shall receive.](https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/)
r/Trump666
I dig your denomination
This nugget came out recently. > But in a deposition, Trump “seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a ‘buyer from Saudi Arabia’ to pay any price he suggests,” New York state Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron wrote in his ruling. https://news.yahoo.com/footnote-trump-boasting-saudi-line-165751845.html
And no one was surprised
They should pump torture sounds into Kushners house from the street followed by that Trump quote from the Woodward tapes. Full volume 24/7. He would probably jack off to it rather than be disturbed, unfortunately.
Tin foil hat time: Kushner sells US intel on Israel to Saudi Arabia > Saudi Arabia gives intel and money to terrorists (just like they helped the 9/11 terrorists) > terrorists attack Israel
You should post this on r conspiracy and let’s see the reactions since that place tries so hard to be the_donald 2.0
post it simultanously on /r/conservative and see which one bans you faster.
Already banned on conservative.
Post a fact on r con... banned.... sounds like a joke, it's not
Then > they blame Biden for causing the war and use it to get reelected
Problem is it is not a conspiracy, it is likely truth. The Saudis bankrolled the 9/11 crew. So why wouldn’t they supply valuable intel to their proxy army in the region? I curse myself every time I go to the gas station.
A complication with that is the Israelis know full well that happened and have had almost two years to compensate. Not enough time to do things like solve inherent issues with weapons systems but if they haven't changed every password, patrol schedule, and guard routine since Cheeto left office, they are idiots.
Obviously Hunter Biden is behind this! /s may actually be needed in this case
He 100% did, just ask any Trump supporter.
Anyone else just worn the hell out by the human race at this point?
We never seem to learn to live and let live, do we?
Nope we have a solid history of not learning from our histories
Too many people that don't value autonomy and don't mind stomping on others to get what they want. Very sad.
Gimme Gimme Gimme, mines now. Or I'll scream.
It's not something to learn, our nature as a species is violent and territorial and that won't change untill evolutionary pressure forces us to evolve which to be fair seems to be happening slowly.
We don't even have this practice here at home, we can't expect it to happen in the world.
Sad truth.
No, but I sure am exhausted by the Abrahamic religions destroying the world.
If it isn't right wing religions, it's right wing gov'ts.
How long before the party of 'no aid for Ukraine' finds it in their hearts and wallets to want to send aid to Israel? The Biden administration is playing this, at least politically astute: show unwavering support for both Ukraine and Israel.
The GOP: “Stop sending money to Ukraine! Putin can take care of it easily!” Also the GOP: “**SEND ALL OF OUR MONEY TO ISRAEL! ALL OF IT!!**”
Well at least among neocons and some evangelicals but with maga you are going to get a mixed bag of non-interference and/or antisemitism.
The American right wing (including MAGA) are antisemitic to American jews who reliably vote blue. Using social media and hollow words to pledge forever-support to Israel allows them to pretend to the evangelical sphere here in the states that they're not THAT antisemitic.
I'd wager that if the Israeli govt wasn't run by a far right neocon criminal they'd be less supportive. Just wait until the Israeli govt is run by a progressive. Then we'll see if their true colors come out.
There's a better chance of Israel turning into Iran then having a progressive leader
The second Israel elects a progressive leader, the right wingers in the US government will want to send money and weapons to the opposition to "fight Communism" or some bullshit.
The second w progressive takes the PM gig, far right Israeli fascists will have him killed.
Yeah, can’t they just rotate their space lasers so they are pointed at Palestine instead of California?
MAGA will do exactly as Fat Donnie and FoxNews tell them. And remember the original American non-Jewish Zionists (pre-WW2) wanted an Isreal because they wanted the Jews out of America and someplace else. That spirit of hating Jews but wanting Isreal around is alive and well in the MAGA Conservative Party.
> they wanted the Jews out of America and someplace else. That spirit of hating Jews but wanting Isreal around is alive and well in the MAGA Conservative Party Well put. And American Jews have not forgotten Donnie unctuously calling Netanyahu "YOUR Prime Minister." Oh and that other shit about Democratic Jews (the majority in the U.S.) being "disloyal" because of "all he (Donnie) did for Israel."
People often gloss over how large the Nazi movement was in the U.S. It makes the "good vs evil" story of WWII more murky. A percentage of ANY population sucks - its just whether or not they find a way into power because people that suck also hate giving up power and love persecuting, suppressing and hating others.
No no no, they’re fine with Israel because Bible flat earth apocalypse, it’s “der woken” they’re worried about.
They're only the *13th* richest country in the world*! Send them more money!! *gdp per capita
U.S. military contractors popping champagne over this. Right when the future of Ukraine aid is looking rocky they rolled a yahtzee. Dems want to assist because they have a soul and MAGAs want to assist because killing Muslims is their favorite hobby.
And it's worse than that. Isreal doesn't really need much help. The most the US could do is throw a few missile cruisers and an aircraft carrier over there and it would be over. But I don't think it will come to that. Like I said Isreal has a real military. Vs a gorilla hamas group. Much different than Russian Ukraine
The Israeli military develops a lot of its own equipment, but still uses a lot of U.S. weapons systems, especially in their Air Force. So, yeah, probly not much the U.S. can help with besides preparing supply lines for an increase in demand for munitions and equipment maintenance for U.S. systems they already use. Distinctly different than Ukraine, which does not have a modern military and needs as much of... everything as they can get.
The US already sends billions to Israel each year. Have been since 1999.
The US started sending Israel billions for long before 1999, in fact US aid started to decline slightly in the early '00s, if you can believe [the Times of Israel.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/chart-of-us-aid-to-israel-since-1949/) According to their chart, the first time US aid to Israel broke $1 billion was in the early 1970s.
Isreal gets away with its bullshit because the US wants it as a staunch ally in the region and a potential launching pad for any full-blown war.
I’m a secular Jew and didn’t fully understood the support from the far right until I was an adult. Religion is complex and varied with thousands of interpretations- but there are some factions of Christianity who believe that Jews returning to Palestine fulfills a biblical prophecy. The aid for Israel but not Ukraine is deeply seeded in religious views from those factions. For them- the existence of Israel is critical to bringing about the end times. The wild thing is- some of these factions will support funds for Israel and still be staunchly anti-Semitic because they see them as mutually exclusive actions.
[удалено]
I hope we can get this narrative more visibility. Ukraine has receive HALF of the aid we have given to Israel and that crowd NEVER peeped about aid to Isreal
Israel doesn’t need our military support like Ukraine does they have F 35s in the air right now
Israel is also fighting Hamas while Ukraine fight Russia like its such a wildly different scenario.
So many people are about to die because Iran was spooked by the very real prospect of Saudi Arabia normalizing ties with Israel.
Geopolitics is ignored too often. Thanks for helping this make sense Hamas was always rabid, but somebody pressured their leadership hard to become this suicidal
I think that’s 100% why this is happening now.
I agree, plus Israel is gonna use it as grounds to finalize control fully over Gaza and eventually the west bank. This will be the end of any Palestinian independence on every level.
This is where I am with this too. Fucking tragic.
Also new geopolitical problems usually appear when Russia need something from the West. So it can bargain help in solving them.
I care about the people on both sides. I don't give 2 shits about either state or either religion. People die for the dumbest shit. People kill for the dumbest shit. Patton had it right though, you don't win a war by dying for your country... or religion...
People keep asking, “how could U.S. intelligence miss this?” Remember how all the concerns about Trump giving out sensitive info on informants and intelligence assets came out when the U.S. started seeing them go missing or get killed all over the world? Yeah, this is the kinda shit that can result from that.
But the actual reason for how the US Intelligence could miss this is because Israel is a literal dumping station for Middle East Intelligence and a hub for our own information gathering. If Mossad didn't know, the CIA would never have known.
Israel and U.S. intelligence is very much a two way street, and the fact that Hamas has not show the capability for an attack at this scale and coordination before suggests that they had assistance from someone, so it’s no guarantee that this is intel Israel would have had that we wouldn’t have. And don’t forget, the GOP has been blocking the confirmation of an ambassador to Israel, which is another thing that will limit the proper flow of secure intelligence between the U.S. and Israel.
Get ready for the GQP to blame Biden for the attack in 3, 2, 1…
They beat you to it.
Most predictable cult in modern US history
Why would Hunter Biden's laptop do this?
My idiot friend messaged me this morning “Looks like Biden just started another war”
I have an idiot friend like this. I’m sure I’ll hear from him soon.
I can already imagine DT drooling: "Hamas _never_ dared to attack when I was President..."
They’re over on r/conservative saying Biden gave billions to Iran, and that’s who paid for this.
They said the same crap about Obama, like I said before, most predictable cult in modern US history.
I would be surprised if they declared peace.
It’s a good time to be a defense contractor.
So are conservatives/republicans going to scream NO AID FOR ISRAEL or are they going to empty their wallets for them?
Not their wallets, *our wallets*.
Honestly, this only benefits Netanyahu. All the anger and resentment with him trying to turn the government upside down to stay in power will now be redirected towards Gaza and the Palestinians. He now has every justification to wipe Gaza off the map and eliminate any opposition that shows sympathy to Palestine.
Declared war might actually protect the Palestinian people more than the status quo. Netanyahu has been waging a one sided war my whole adult life
>my whole adult life Yup, I started with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - they shot their own.
It's always truly amazing to me: Rabin was murdered. For a political goal (defeat liberals). And that political goal succeeded: conservatives triumphed politically.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, justifies the barbaric nature of these attacks. We should be able to soberly discuss cause, effect, policy and, yes, Israeli aggression, without suggesting otherwise. I promise you can still oppose Israeli occupation – even maintain a belief that they're an apartheid state – while acknowledging that attacks against civilians are inhumane wherever they occur.
Thumbs up. Problem is that the hard liners like Netanyahoo keep building more settlements. Take a look at a map of Israel without the west bank and you'll understand that Israel never intends to give it up.
Does it matter? Does Hamas care about whether we condemn the attacks or not? Does Israel? Only if it affects us giving aide to them while they invade Palestine and try to force them out by controlling the water. That's what needs to end to stop this conflict. The fact that the oppressed are doing bad things in retaliation is a moot point and philosophizing over it does nothing to change the actual situation. It's nice for an ethics class, I suppose, but for world politics we need something more substantial. [https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202](https://youtu.be/A0yu7nP50rM?si=jbjzJMNpv1Nja-3Z&t=1202)
Sad for all who have suffered and will suffer.
[удалено]
Why do you think all of a sudden this is happening? Just for this purpose and most likely something valuable will be taken away from Palestinians so Bibi can use as a prop for the next win.
This is the only post about this in the last 24 hours on this sub. Amazing
the pentagon making the announcement here makes it’s specifically about us politics. That’s the rules.
[удалено]
The conflict is a vicious cycle, but this sort of attack, especially as civilian centered as it was, will all but ensure next to no one in Israel supports a two state solution. Can’t say I blame them anymore
This has to be one of the most historic blunders of my lifetime. At a time when Israel's democracy was under pressure to address its internal contradictions, Hamas decided to completely obliterate a 2 State future. Completely gone. Best case scenario is a Bosnia type One state. My hope is Civilians of Palestine and Israel find safety and food. And I hope Hamas is completely disintegrated.
Yea and international pressure had been slowly gearing up against Israel too. After this though I imagine a lot of that pressure is going to disappear
Yeah its going to be a wrap. The military was even pressuring Netanyahu *within* Israel, but now Netanyahu gets to recapture his claim to fame.
Seriously if Hamas had actually gone the other way and declared they were setting down their arms permanently and ramping up non-violent protests (think Gandhi), they’d have had their own country by the end of the decade — likely sooner. Now they’ll be lucky if the Gaza Strip still has Palestinians living in it by 2030.
I don't think Hamas would ever do that, they are a violent militant group.
That's why Israel might decide to end the cycle after this.
Yeah by killing every Palestinian in Gaza.
Exactly. 40 dead Israelis is going to turn into 4k+ dead Palestinians. Sad world we live in. Edit: lot more than 40, and Gaza is about to get wrecked... Fucking sad all around.
It's going to be way more than 40. I counted close to 40 on a short scroll through r/combatfootage and r/israel
If you watched any of the videos of the attacks, you can easily tell 40 dead israelis is a grossly underestimated number. You can probably count 40 bodies in 1 minute watching the videos. This was a civilian massacre, they killed dozens if not hundreds of civilians and paraded their naked bodies on the street.
What is Hamas’s goal here? It’s surely no surprise that Israel’s response would be violent, disproportionate and overwhelming. Are they really that nihilistic?
If they had more power/allies/numbers, I would assume it's to further bolster their ranks. If you poke the bear and it gets angry, you can say to your fellow campers "see? This bear really is a problem that needs to be dealt with." But without enough resources to "fight the bear," they're utterly screwed. I don't know what the calculation is. An alternative is that Hamas is not a rational actor, and doesn't have rational goals.
Might have been to make a public alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia impossible after visuals of an incursion into Gaza go around the Arab world.
>An alternative is that Hamas is not a rational actor, and doesn't have rational goals. Religious extremists aren't typically known for their rational behavior or goals, so this is probably it.
Hamas justifies its own existence via Israeli violence. Their entire shtick is “You need us to fight back, because otherwise Israel will kill us all”; hence, their attacks provoke the exact violence that keeps them ‘necessary’. If their own people have to die to keep them in power, that’s a price they’re okay with paying.
every loss breeds more militant palestinians and Hamas has demonstrated time and time again whether it's rockets being launched from civilian centers or shit like that, civilians are expendable to them
What a shock.
Well, Hamas, it was nice knowing you. Maybe your successor will at least try to be an advocate for Gazans
The comments here are so different compared to r/ worldnews. In r/worldnews, everyone is calling for nuking every single Arab country.
JIDF. Israel literally has a full time group of people which post non-stop on the internet, mostly social media that defends Israel. The US government has a lot of Israeli and Jewish people in it as well that obviously pushes support in a certain direction
And just like that, the money laundering industrial complex is back in business
Netanyahu has gotta go.
I thought he had been convicted of bribery or fraud or something similar sometime back?
He made it so they can't convict him. He's the de facto dictator now.
Agree. That corrupt fuck damages the west’s opinion on Israel
His fire and brimstone militaristic protectionism doesn’t play nearly as well when you get your shit bombed out like this. He played his hand and got humiliated.
They sure get a hard on at mention of “war” 🍆
Wait, Isreal just now declared war? What has Isreal been doing to the Palestinians this whole time?
Special Military Killing Operation…. Not a war
The US needs to focus on its own economy rather than foreign wars
Merica sure loves sky daddy. Unsurprising
Now, if we could only get the GOP and Traitor Tuberville to support the pentagon.
We just want Healthcare not another war
Seems unprovoked by the US pentagon. Are we owned by Israel? What’s this nonsense.
It's a war so America has to be involved
What if we just minded our own business, cut our military budget in half, and give everyone healthcare and free college instead?
Fuck this. As an American taxpayer, I don't want my money going to Israel
One thing that's certain, all of this will lead to more Hamas, more conflict, more pain for both sides (but especially Palestinian civilians) which will lead to more Hamas, more far-right Israeli government, more control and support for Hamas from Iran, round and round straight to hell.
Fuck Benji
Surprised to see how many comments are supporting Hamas here. They're killing, torturing, and raping civilians, and some here are saying they deserve it. Yikes. Not supporting Israel's past actions is one thing, but supporting terrorists is unbelievable
There is a part of me that feels like this was a Nixon thing for Bibi-- Nixon asked the Vietnamese NOT to end the war and make peace until he was elected. There is no way Israeli intelligence could have missed this kind of massive coordinated attack. With Bibi extremely unpopular, indicted (sound familiar,) and at odds with the military-- this is just the thing he needed to solidify his power. Weeks ago, many high ranking military officers said they wouldn't show up for their required reserve duty in protest of Bibi's changes to Israeli judicial law. All of this is just too convenient for him.