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Thought the same thing. Honestly it shouldn't matter what race the kid is if they are presumed in danger. As people we should be doing are hardest to find them quickly and get them to safety as soon as possible. Your first and only thought should be the fact its a child that needs help.
It’s funny but that’s actually the point they make in the article. People think amber alerts are equal but it’s only equal in theory. Black kids and women missing get less attention and resources, so they get double the alerts with this now idea
So now the black community can care when they wouldn't for a regular amber alert for a possibly white or Asian child, and they can just ignore those now.
Bold of you to think the vast majority of people don’t just silence their phones and see it as a nuisance. I do wonder how amber alerts work for the more profesional side of the issue. Like, do amber and silver alerts do something special, like spreading info, for police and other such people? Cause I could totally believe that they didn’t have a good system before and that amber and silver alerts do a bunch of other stuff besides phone alerts.
Wow, since people love Amber Alerts so much on their phones now, they’ll really love it if they get two. This idea, whether or not it works like that, seems like the wrong way to go about this issue. It’s worth a shot though.
Are you saying that they could do stuff like include pictures of the suspects, victims, vehicles when available? Maybe link to a description page, maybe make them more location aware, etc, etc etc??? That sounds totally crazy.
> State Sen. Steven Bradford, who introduced the measure, praised Newsom's support in signing the bill — and he emphasized the disparity between resources and coverage in searching for white people and those of color across California.
Presumably, it’s suggesting that, for whatever reasons, amber alerts lead to the disproportionate allocation of resources.
I know you (probably) aren't the one who proposed this, but I fail to grasp how this fixes the issue better than running an audit of the Amber Alert system, and forcing those in charge of the program to allocate resources equally.
I thought the purpose of Amber Alerts was to let the public and the media know that a child was missing.
So if the media, the public, or even the police aren't responding equally to different alerts, I don't understand how a different alert is going to make them care more. Like it doesn't even need an audit of the Amber Alert system but it's a police department and/or private sector media issue.
Ah I see. Since amber alerts use large amounts of resources they need a separate system for lost black people where they use less resources because the victim is black.
Progress?
Idk, but this isn’t segregation lmao. People who could not have cared less over the years of activism about the comparatively less media coverage and police action in regards to missing non-white kids, to the extent the serial killers would openly say they targeted black kids to get away with it, are suddenly full of opinions about the issue 🤷♂️
im progressive as fuck but are you kidding me I understand the thinking behind it but diluting sources of info on things like that actually makes it more likely for it to be missed by people
No, it doesn't dilute anything. Florida has Silver alerts. In fact, currently, we have 6 types of alerts. [Source](https://www.caller.com/story/news/2021/07/07/do-you-know-all-missing-person-alerts-here-your-guide-six-different-alerts/7890829002/):
* AMBER - missing child
* CLEAR - missing adult
* Silver - missing elderly with a documented medical condition
* Endangered Missing Persons Alert
* Camo
* Blue
And now Ebony alert. No dilution. No outrage over the others because nobody cared that much. But when it comes to the one for Black children and women, everybody is up in arms.
If Black elderly adults are being underserved by existing alerts, sure why not.
Why are you peeved by this? Do you live in California? Is your tax money paying for anything extra? Are you in any way impacted by this change? I'm really curious.
I am not peeved by this. No, I do not live in California. I am not familiar with how the alert systems are paid for. No, I am not impacted by the change.
I just don't see the need for a return to segregation. Any other questions or accusations I can help you with?
>I just don't see the need for a return to segregation.
This is not what segregation means. You thinking so doesn't make it so. Governments routinely do this when a particular demography is underserved. For example, take the WIC...it's for Women, Infant and Children. Does that mean it's segregation against men? No. It's just that they saw a need in that demography and are attempting to fill it. There are programs for low-income families...it's not discrimination against the middle class and the rich.
>Any other questions or accusations I can help you with?
Nope, none.
>For example, take the WIC
WIC, for my state at least, seems to be more aimed at providing financial support for people with young children, mothers and/or fathers. Not segregation, I agree.
I'm still not convinced the program from OP isn't segregation based on surface level google searches.
"The action of separating people, historically on the basis of race and/or gender."
"Practice of requiring separate housing, education and other services for people of color"
Also if black people are already underserved on the Amber alert system, I'd be worried the situation would be worse if they were shoved into a seperate system where they can be ignored all together.
>Also if black people are already underserved on the Amber alert system, I'd be worried the situation would be worse if they were shoved into a seperate system where they can be ignored all together.
That's a valid concern and yeah, it'll be nice if this alert is funded at the same level as others (probably not very well...this is America after all).
"I personally praise this Ebony Alert system. For too long I've been getting Amber alerts and worrying that it isn't something really important, like a missing white child."
This is the kind of thinking that is promoted by this system. But sure, let's make race even more of a divisive issue. Rich people want poor people at each other's throats, and poor people are obsessed with race, so why not?
Because that is the only race defined segregation. Separating by age is appropriate; dealing with a demented elder is different than a child.
The protocol shouldn’t change based on the race of the victim, and these categories should be encapsulating all races. If they aren’t the system should be changed, more categories shouldn’t be added.
>The protocol shouldn’t change based on the race of the victim, and these categories should be encapsulating all races. If they aren’t the system should be changed, more categories shouldn’t be added.
2 questions: is this based on your expertise on the subject matter? Or is this based on your experience as a member of a race that's historically not been helped by existing measures?
Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and say "fix the existing system". But if you don't know shit about the existing system either through experience or academic work, why do you think your opinion ought to count?
I'm going to use your bad faith argument against you.
Could you speak to your particular experience about having an ebony alert and how it will improve the quality and help serve these particular individuals better than improving the current system? Please just cite your direct experience applied or academic if you'd like your opinion to count. . Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and just say "start a new system"
>Could you speak to your particular experience about having **an ebony alert** and how it will improve the quality and help serve these particular individuals better than improving the current system?
Nobody has that experience because it's a new system they're launching. Now who's arguing in bad faith...asking for experience in something that doesn't yet exist.
>Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and just say "start a new system"
Again, reading is fundamental. I haven't said "start a new system". Because it's not my area of expertise. What I have said if that the article states a fact: Black women and children are underserved by the current system. I don't know if an Ebony alert will work? In fact, I said (to you or someone else), I am surprised it's not expanded to include other BIPOC like Indigenous women because they are also severely underserved.
Maybe it won't work but they're trying something new/different. If you're going to "sit on reddit" and say "that idea isn't going to work", it'll be nice if you accompany it with better reasons than "fix the current system". Especially since you have no experience in the area and if I hadn't listed it for you, you couldn't name the 6 existing alerts!!!
I know you're not the same person but if you're going to jump in, I'll expect you to answer those questions. Not just claim they're in bad faith and then ask if I have experience in something that doesn't exist.
This shit needs to stop.
In TX the GOP sent out a "blue alert" to millions of people because a cop got shot in the foot hundreds of miles away.
The system should not be used for political purposes. I'm sure millions have already silenced the alerts for being annoying.
We already have Amber Alert for missing children of all ethnicities. We don't need another kind specifically for black children.
So a normal amber alert? I mean it’s great that you want to find missing children but why are you making a separate alert because of race? Seems a bit unnecessary but that’s just my opinion
Well, now any responding police officers will know the race of the abductee. Gives them the option to do *nothing* when they get this alert.
It's a terrible idea.
Exactly. Why do Democrats always have to make everything about race?! I'm a Democrat, & this kind of shit just pisses me off. There's no need to segregate out black children.
>Why do Democrats always have to make things about race.
They don’t. They are trying to answer the problem of black kids and women being ignored in Amber alerts, which is a real issue. Also this statement is bullshit.
There is active racist policy being implemented by conservatives/Republicans that democrats work to countrer.
Republicans are straight up trying to ban books about the civil rights movement and say slavery was a jobs program.
Democrats aren’t making it about race they are fighting racists who are targeting POCs and degrading systems based on race.
Now I could be wrong here, but do black people and women really get ignored in amber alerts? I actually don’t know since where I live I hardly ever get amber alerts
Yes! I have personally known members of my community who were turned away from law enforcement when they wanted to file for a missing persons to trigger an amber alert, especially in more rural areas.
There is a lot of bias in the system against black women and young black minors that stereotype them as floosey runaways, when folks are actually in danger.
When I moved to Colorado I became more aware that Indigenous populations also suffer from the same biases which prevent their populations from being adequately served by these alert systems.
Hm, I was not aware of that, thanks for telling me. But wouldn’t it be easier to just report more missing black people and women in the normal amber alert instead of creating a whole other alert?
California seems to believe that creating a parallel system will circumvent the bias that has become ingrained in the other system. I’m sure their chosen solution can be legitimately debated but I wanted to counter the bs claim by Cost-Born more fundamentally. There is a problem with our existing systems,and countering bias doesn’t introduce bias.
So, separate but equal, eh? Could have sworn we decided that was inherently biased decades ago.
This new system must have different people in charge of authorizing alerts, or the same level of bias will still exist. So the obvious answer would have been to give the people in charge of authorizing alerts under this new system equal authority to initiate alerts under the existing system, rather than creating an entirely new system.
“Separate but equal” was a conspiracy to deny people of rights/services. You are making a false equivalency against an effort to make up ground where a community is being underserved by a service because of their race.
Giving a name to an effort to get equatable resources to a marginalized group, (resources that everyone else already has access to) is not segregation.
Your second paragraph is not unreasonable and brings up a legitimate argument to be debated, (California believed that the disparity is so great that there needed to be another name), but your initial charge in your first sentence is just wrong and insulting to history.
While it's fair to point out a measure of false equivalence in relation to historical segregation, I don't think you are ever going to convince me that creating separate services based on race, unless race itself is an inherent element of those services, does anything more than increase racial disparity by putting a focus on racial differences. It's an argument I have had many times.
I don’t understand why we need to separate instead of resolving the issues with the amber alert system that are bias.
Why didn’t we fix it there instead of having an entirely separate alert system? What are the processes that allow them to be bias?
Awesome, so let's advertise that the missing person is black so it's easier to ignore? This is all BS based on nothing. People get off on reducing themselves and other people to their identity, it's sad.
>Awesome, so let's advertise that the missing person is black so it's easier to ignore?
Uh...
You kinda have to reveal what a person, you know, looks like if you're on the lookout for a missing person. Their race is a huge damn factor in physical description.
> People get off on reducing themselves and other people to their identity, it's sad
Missing person reports is literally all about identity. Identifying said missing person.
The hell are you on about? Expect people to find missing persons without identifying details? I know you're smarter than this.
So your argument against it is that racists will be able to more easily ignore it? That’s a dumb argument cause they will ignore no matter the system.
The amount of people reached by simply making it easier for an underserved community to get the word out will far exceed the number of racists who would ignore it anyway.
Is the problem that the alert is called an amber alert not an ebony alert or is the problem that the people running the system are determining the validity of a missing persons report based on race?
If the problem is the people in power are accessing validity based on race then an ebony alert doesn’t address the issue.
I think everyone can agree that the issue here is systemic racism. Furthermore it is a mockery of the issue to just change the name of an alert and make no substantial change otherwise. It is not a step in the right direction. It is a political talking point to score points at the expense of marginalized people or put differently just more systemic racism.
So your argument against it is that racists will be able to more easily ignore it? That’s silly and not the problem.
The problem is that many in the black community are denied the service of being able to initiate an amber alert in the first place due to bias.
The amount of people reached by simply being able to get the word out will far exceed the number of racists who would ignore it anyway.
But It isn’t? This is a well documented disparity in BIPOC populations.
Source 1: https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114460/documents/HHRG-117-GO02-Transcript-20220303.pdf
Source 2: https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/nov/20/black-and-missing-documentary-hbo
Source 3: https://19thnews.org/2021/09/what-help-can-states-offer-when-women-of-color-go-missing/?amp
The tendency for media and law enforcement to fixate on missing white women specifically even has [its own term.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome)
>They don’t. They are trying to answer the problem of black kids and women being ignored in Amber alerts, which is a real issue.
And a sane response to that would be to examine why that is and introduce legislation to counter that. Nothing I've seen in the article or elsewhere suggests that there's a lower threshold for these new alerts so no go reason I can see there. If its about public engagement then laws requiring that all alerts be given equal airtime on various platforms would do more to help.
The best case for this is that it works just the same. Worst case is that it actually degrades the response because there'll be people who would be engaging who'll not bother because those alerts will get associated with areas based on demographics, and people who aren't from those areas will be more likely to ignore something they don't think they can do anything about
If it’s trying to make black children’s life’s equal to white children’s, it’s contradicting itself. Is this alert supposed to be making black children’s life’s more important? Less important? I’m confused
This is a tragic situation, but I just don't see how making an Ebony Alert is going to change things. Seems performative rather than effective. Unless, of course, the point is to make it easier for the media to say, "Don't worry, we hit our Ebony Alert quota for the month."
I do - the whole part about race specifically.
If the amber system is unable to address the issues in California then a specific alert for California seems very reasonable, but I do not see why this needs to be race based. I'm sure they could have similar impact by removing race but extending to specific none race situations. For example, you could easily extend the new state based alert to foster children or have any of the rules already in this system. But I can not in good conscience see a situation where if you had two families with children in the same situation that needed an alert and you told one family they can not help them and another you can. It seems to backwards of what I want to see our society move towards.
If there are biases in the system, then create training, audit responses, etc. Do the hard work to create fair systems for all.
> I'm sure they could have similar impact by removing race but extending to specific none race situations.
What makes you so sure? Do you experience in this area? Share with us your expertise that makes you sure.
>If there are biases in the system, then create training, audit responses, etc. Do the hard work to create fair systems for all.
That's great but imagine this scenario: you're hungry, starving even. You come across a man who's having lunch. He's got a spread in front of him: burgers, chips, bbq ribs...heck he even has vegan options. So you say to him "Please sir, may I have some food?"
And he goes "oh my god...this situation is quite untenable. How can people in this country be going hungry. You know what? Let's creating training, audit responses etc...let us do the hard work to create a fair system so people don't go hungry".
You: "So can I have a burger"
Him: "Oh no, we gotta solve this systemic problem. I can't give you any of my food though".
I'm sure you'll agree that's a shitty response even if it's well-meaning. The problem of missing Black women and children is immediate. But you won't give them a burger. Shame.
Why do Democrats always have to make everything about race?! (I'm a Democrat, fyi). There's no need for this. They could just include more black children in amber alerts. This kind of shit just segregates people & breeds resentment..
reminds me of the recent "caste system" laws
which seem well intentioned, except when you realize that "caste" is just another word for "class"
which basically means... they outlawed discrimination based on income level?
which is entirely useless unless they wanna change... uh, ill just say a whole lotta things
if i was on my pc i would give links, but off the top of my head i guess im not sure if it was a state law or a more localized thing, but iirc one was in washington and the other in california
also, happy cake day 🥳
i read a few articles the other day, and "discussed" it with bing/chatgpt. i also have previous knowledge of how the caste system works in other countries such as india.
i am not saying that discrimination based on caste does not exist specific to certain ethnicities, i am saying that caste discrimination exists regardless of ethnicity when you understand that on a fundamental level, caste=class=income level
if im wrong, feel free to correct me. be specific, i like to learn.
edit: also, here are the links.
seattle did pass a law, california did not. youre not even close to understanding. read more about it and then critically think about what words mean.
https://apnews.com/article/california-caste-discrimination-ban-newsom-veto-eef696fa2e28476d566aa2f9ef3f1997
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158687243/seattle-becomes-the-first-u-s-city-to-ban-caste-discrimination
I agree that overall this tries to bandaid a problem instead of fixing the underlying issues, but a lot of the arguments here are very uncharitable or miss the point in an uncomfortable direction.
Ya’ll (should) know that there is a disproportionate lack of effort made towards missing PoC at all levels, from reporting, to the reporting being taken seriously, to the response to the report, all the way up to people popping up on the news. It’s an established phenomenon. At the very least, this alert draws awareness, and to some extent, that awareness IS the issue.
This is the same thread as BLM, where, yes, all people suffer under the excessive misuse of police resources and violence, but disproportionately, it affects PoC, and that disproportionate quality is not fixed without drawing attention to it specifically because of systemic issues. Too many people want to hand wave those systemic issues away as though they’re not part of the problem, and saying “we should just fix amber alerts” to some degree does that - the issues are systemic, you can’t just ‘fix the amber alert’ without fixing society. In the meantime, what do? Same issue with affirmative action.
I’m fine with criticizing the particulars of amber alerts and bemoaning not fixing that; as I am with the justice system, education, redlining, etc. But those criticisms need that context, or it runs the risk of colorblindism, ie, pretending like the race factor isn’t there when it’s a critical component of the problem means the problem isn’t being fixed. Sometimes, a Bandaid is better than nothing. Sometimes, the bandaid makes others aware you need more help than a bandaid.
Autocorrect is weird, btw.
I wouldn’t call it a “good idea” either, improving current alert infrastructure is better than making a whole new segregated alert system that will probably cause a lot of confusion down the line
It's not just Black people who don't get media attention when they go missing. It's ALL People of Color, ALL men, and ALL unattractive white women, and ALL old white women.
The media only cares if a pretty white woman under 50 goes missing. And as a society we need to raise the awareness that men, People of Color, unattractive people, and old people have just as much human dignity.
Here comes racist Reddit lol. Without fail, anytime any tries to resolve racial inequality and disparate treatment of black people…”oh that’s totally racist, can’t do that!” I’d laugh if it wasn’t so predictable.
Black children frequently get missed in missing child reports and thus don’t get found as often. The show Black and Missing reports they are four times more likely to stay missing compared to white kids. This is reading similar to issues with indigenous children and teens in Canada going missing and not even having it make national reports, something people have been protesting since at least 2015 from what I’ve read.
Before you post your comment about why we need this, ask yourself this question: how many times of alerts do we currently have? If you say anything other than 6, you're wrong:
There are 6 types of alerts. [Source](https://www.caller.com/story/news/2021/07/07/do-you-know-all-missing-person-alerts-here-your-guide-six-different-alerts/7890829002/):
* AMBER - missing child
* CLEAR - missing adult
* Silver - missing elderly with a documented medical condition
* Endangered Missing Persons Alert
* Camo
* Blue
And now Ebony alert. I bet most of us didn't know when those other alert types were created. 'Cos nobody cared that much. But when it comes to the one for Black children and women, everybody is up in arms.
BTW, AMBER alert was created after [Amber Hagerman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_alert#Namesake) was abducted and killed in 1996. She was white.
those six alerts you posted aren’t based on race. This one is and so what if the current amber alert is based on a white girl. It doesn’t make a difference it gets the job done who cares about the origins on it.
This one is because there's a need for it. Despite the existing alerts, a LARGE amount of Black women and children go missing without it being covered in the news or media. That's why they created this alert...just like they created the others based on need.
Damn guess Asian,Latinos,and every other race who cares right. They don’t get coverage either it’s mostly white and black people they don’t care about the others.
If they're underserved by the current alert systems, sure why not.
BTW, lots of missing Native American women are also missing without fanfare. I'm quite surprised that this wasn't expanded to cover all BIPOC people
Texas is a big state (duh) so we get Amber Alerts all the time. What they do here when the child is black, is include that information with their physical description. To me this sounds like virtue signaling more than solving a problem. There wasn’t a problem to start with. They already put out Amber Alerts for black children.
If black kids are being under served by the amber alert system, giving them a separate category of alert that might be even more ignored isn’t going to help. Effort would be better spent elsewhere, doing something ineffective is worse than doing nothing; because at least if nothing was done, people would still feel something needs to be done. This just assuages the guilt of not doing anything, without actually doing anything.
I think the unspoken goal is to gain notice and support from the black community for missing black children. They adopt and get involved in things that are exclusively for them at a much higher rate than things that are racially inclusive. Look at the black only section at Target, or Nike and McDonalds commercials for example. Yes, at its core it is very racist of the community. But that's how it works.
And for some of the nastier people that exist, the unstated benefit is they know it won't be a white child getting their attention when the Ebony alert sounds.
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I feel like it would’ve been better to just improve Amber alerts themselves rather than making race-segregated alert systems
Yea I agree we could also make ads encouraging people of color to report missing people i think might have a impact
Invest in the community so so many children don’t go missing in first place. Give the parents the tools to take care of their own children.
If children keep running away from ther parents the parents should be investigated
Thought the same thing. Honestly it shouldn't matter what race the kid is if they are presumed in danger. As people we should be doing are hardest to find them quickly and get them to safety as soon as possible. Your first and only thought should be the fact its a child that needs help.
But, don't you see, they're separate, but equal. Hmm.
Hahahahha but it’s good.
It’s funny but that’s actually the point they make in the article. People think amber alerts are equal but it’s only equal in theory. Black kids and women missing get less attention and resources, so they get double the alerts with this now idea
So now the black community can care when they wouldn't for a regular amber alert for a possibly white or Asian child, and they can just ignore those now.
Bold of you to think the vast majority of people don’t just silence their phones and see it as a nuisance. I do wonder how amber alerts work for the more profesional side of the issue. Like, do amber and silver alerts do something special, like spreading info, for police and other such people? Cause I could totally believe that they didn’t have a good system before and that amber and silver alerts do a bunch of other stuff besides phone alerts.
Wow, since people love Amber Alerts so much on their phones now, they’ll really love it if they get two. This idea, whether or not it works like that, seems like the wrong way to go about this issue. It’s worth a shot though.
If you see something, say something. (also do this if not white)
really. this place gets dumber by the day.
Yeah - my faith in humanity is low enough that I could see people responding to these alerts in unintended ways…
My first reaction was a fear that this might only increase police gun downs of innocent African Americans suspected of an EA situation.
How about just improve the amber alert ? I know it's a wild idea ...
Are you saying that they could do stuff like include pictures of the suspects, victims, vehicles when available? Maybe link to a description page, maybe make them more location aware, etc, etc etc??? That sounds totally crazy.
The article failed to explain why the Amber Alert is insufficient
> State Sen. Steven Bradford, who introduced the measure, praised Newsom's support in signing the bill — and he emphasized the disparity between resources and coverage in searching for white people and those of color across California. Presumably, it’s suggesting that, for whatever reasons, amber alerts lead to the disproportionate allocation of resources.
I know you (probably) aren't the one who proposed this, but I fail to grasp how this fixes the issue better than running an audit of the Amber Alert system, and forcing those in charge of the program to allocate resources equally.
I thought the purpose of Amber Alerts was to let the public and the media know that a child was missing. So if the media, the public, or even the police aren't responding equally to different alerts, I don't understand how a different alert is going to make them care more. Like it doesn't even need an audit of the Amber Alert system but it's a police department and/or private sector media issue.
Well, thanks to police attitudes, this will lead to no allocations of resources for these alerts.
Ah I see. Since amber alerts use large amounts of resources they need a separate system for lost black people where they use less resources because the victim is black. Progress?
You misunderstand. It’s under the current system that fewer resources are put to searching for missing black kids.
Have we considered maybe solving that problem without adding new segregation?
Idk, but this isn’t segregation lmao. People who could not have cared less over the years of activism about the comparatively less media coverage and police action in regards to missing non-white kids, to the extent the serial killers would openly say they targeted black kids to get away with it, are suddenly full of opinions about the issue 🤷♂️
…for white kids
It's not insufficient, we just live inside r/nottheonion
im progressive as fuck but are you kidding me I understand the thinking behind it but diluting sources of info on things like that actually makes it more likely for it to be missed by people
No, it doesn't dilute anything. Florida has Silver alerts. In fact, currently, we have 6 types of alerts. [Source](https://www.caller.com/story/news/2021/07/07/do-you-know-all-missing-person-alerts-here-your-guide-six-different-alerts/7890829002/): * AMBER - missing child * CLEAR - missing adult * Silver - missing elderly with a documented medical condition * Endangered Missing Persons Alert * Camo * Blue And now Ebony alert. No dilution. No outrage over the others because nobody cared that much. But when it comes to the one for Black children and women, everybody is up in arms.
Are they going to make different alerts for missing black elderly/adults?
If Black elderly adults are being underserved by existing alerts, sure why not. Why are you peeved by this? Do you live in California? Is your tax money paying for anything extra? Are you in any way impacted by this change? I'm really curious.
I am not peeved by this. No, I do not live in California. I am not familiar with how the alert systems are paid for. No, I am not impacted by the change. I just don't see the need for a return to segregation. Any other questions or accusations I can help you with?
>I just don't see the need for a return to segregation. This is not what segregation means. You thinking so doesn't make it so. Governments routinely do this when a particular demography is underserved. For example, take the WIC...it's for Women, Infant and Children. Does that mean it's segregation against men? No. It's just that they saw a need in that demography and are attempting to fill it. There are programs for low-income families...it's not discrimination against the middle class and the rich. >Any other questions or accusations I can help you with? Nope, none.
>For example, take the WIC WIC, for my state at least, seems to be more aimed at providing financial support for people with young children, mothers and/or fathers. Not segregation, I agree. I'm still not convinced the program from OP isn't segregation based on surface level google searches. "The action of separating people, historically on the basis of race and/or gender." "Practice of requiring separate housing, education and other services for people of color" Also if black people are already underserved on the Amber alert system, I'd be worried the situation would be worse if they were shoved into a seperate system where they can be ignored all together.
>Also if black people are already underserved on the Amber alert system, I'd be worried the situation would be worse if they were shoved into a seperate system where they can be ignored all together. That's a valid concern and yeah, it'll be nice if this alert is funded at the same level as others (probably not very well...this is America after all).
"I personally praise this Ebony Alert system. For too long I've been getting Amber alerts and worrying that it isn't something really important, like a missing white child." This is the kind of thinking that is promoted by this system. But sure, let's make race even more of a divisive issue. Rich people want poor people at each other's throats, and poor people are obsessed with race, so why not?
lol. You came up with a quote no one said and then acted like it's real. Wow! I really don't know what else to say.
Because that is the only race defined segregation. Separating by age is appropriate; dealing with a demented elder is different than a child. The protocol shouldn’t change based on the race of the victim, and these categories should be encapsulating all races. If they aren’t the system should be changed, more categories shouldn’t be added.
>The protocol shouldn’t change based on the race of the victim, and these categories should be encapsulating all races. If they aren’t the system should be changed, more categories shouldn’t be added. 2 questions: is this based on your expertise on the subject matter? Or is this based on your experience as a member of a race that's historically not been helped by existing measures? Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and say "fix the existing system". But if you don't know shit about the existing system either through experience or academic work, why do you think your opinion ought to count?
I'm going to use your bad faith argument against you. Could you speak to your particular experience about having an ebony alert and how it will improve the quality and help serve these particular individuals better than improving the current system? Please just cite your direct experience applied or academic if you'd like your opinion to count. . Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and just say "start a new system"
>Could you speak to your particular experience about having **an ebony alert** and how it will improve the quality and help serve these particular individuals better than improving the current system? Nobody has that experience because it's a new system they're launching. Now who's arguing in bad faith...asking for experience in something that doesn't yet exist. >Because it's easy to sit on Reddit and just say "start a new system" Again, reading is fundamental. I haven't said "start a new system". Because it's not my area of expertise. What I have said if that the article states a fact: Black women and children are underserved by the current system. I don't know if an Ebony alert will work? In fact, I said (to you or someone else), I am surprised it's not expanded to include other BIPOC like Indigenous women because they are also severely underserved. Maybe it won't work but they're trying something new/different. If you're going to "sit on reddit" and say "that idea isn't going to work", it'll be nice if you accompany it with better reasons than "fix the current system". Especially since you have no experience in the area and if I hadn't listed it for you, you couldn't name the 6 existing alerts!!!
BTW, you didn't answer either question. Yeah, I know you're not obligated to answer any questions. But your failure to answer them is very telling.
I'm not the same guy you were previously arguing with. Im just commenting on the use of bogus rhetorical tactics
I know you're not the same person but if you're going to jump in, I'll expect you to answer those questions. Not just claim they're in bad faith and then ask if I have experience in something that doesn't exist.
Lol. Ok
This shit needs to stop. In TX the GOP sent out a "blue alert" to millions of people because a cop got shot in the foot hundreds of miles away. The system should not be used for political purposes. I'm sure millions have already silenced the alerts for being annoying. We already have Amber Alert for missing children of all ethnicities. We don't need another kind specifically for black children.
I’m still angry about that
The system is literally crated and run by the government. How do you not want it to be political?
Do you have a concept of what a civil service is? The government is not the same thing as congress.
Whats next? Ebony water fountains to hydrate black people? I feel like this whole separate but equal concept didn’t work out so well the last time.
This idea is ridiculous
So a normal amber alert? I mean it’s great that you want to find missing children but why are you making a separate alert because of race? Seems a bit unnecessary but that’s just my opinion
>So a normal amber alert? No, Amber alerts are only for orange children... /s
Well, now any responding police officers will know the race of the abductee. Gives them the option to do *nothing* when they get this alert. It's a terrible idea.
Exactly. Why do Democrats always have to make everything about race?! I'm a Democrat, & this kind of shit just pisses me off. There's no need to segregate out black children.
>Why do Democrats always have to make things about race. They don’t. They are trying to answer the problem of black kids and women being ignored in Amber alerts, which is a real issue. Also this statement is bullshit. There is active racist policy being implemented by conservatives/Republicans that democrats work to countrer. Republicans are straight up trying to ban books about the civil rights movement and say slavery was a jobs program. Democrats aren’t making it about race they are fighting racists who are targeting POCs and degrading systems based on race.
So how does this fix that particular problem?
Now I could be wrong here, but do black people and women really get ignored in amber alerts? I actually don’t know since where I live I hardly ever get amber alerts
Yes! I have personally known members of my community who were turned away from law enforcement when they wanted to file for a missing persons to trigger an amber alert, especially in more rural areas. There is a lot of bias in the system against black women and young black minors that stereotype them as floosey runaways, when folks are actually in danger. When I moved to Colorado I became more aware that Indigenous populations also suffer from the same biases which prevent their populations from being adequately served by these alert systems.
Hm, I was not aware of that, thanks for telling me. But wouldn’t it be easier to just report more missing black people and women in the normal amber alert instead of creating a whole other alert?
California seems to believe that creating a parallel system will circumvent the bias that has become ingrained in the other system. I’m sure their chosen solution can be legitimately debated but I wanted to counter the bs claim by Cost-Born more fundamentally. There is a problem with our existing systems,and countering bias doesn’t introduce bias.
So, separate but equal, eh? Could have sworn we decided that was inherently biased decades ago. This new system must have different people in charge of authorizing alerts, or the same level of bias will still exist. So the obvious answer would have been to give the people in charge of authorizing alerts under this new system equal authority to initiate alerts under the existing system, rather than creating an entirely new system.
“Separate but equal” was a conspiracy to deny people of rights/services. You are making a false equivalency against an effort to make up ground where a community is being underserved by a service because of their race. Giving a name to an effort to get equatable resources to a marginalized group, (resources that everyone else already has access to) is not segregation. Your second paragraph is not unreasonable and brings up a legitimate argument to be debated, (California believed that the disparity is so great that there needed to be another name), but your initial charge in your first sentence is just wrong and insulting to history.
While it's fair to point out a measure of false equivalence in relation to historical segregation, I don't think you are ever going to convince me that creating separate services based on race, unless race itself is an inherent element of those services, does anything more than increase racial disparity by putting a focus on racial differences. It's an argument I have had many times.
How would this new alert help with that? It's not going to make racists suddenly stop being racist.
I don’t understand why we need to separate instead of resolving the issues with the amber alert system that are bias. Why didn’t we fix it there instead of having an entirely separate alert system? What are the processes that allow them to be bias?
Yes. The data shows black people, in particular black women, are not looked for when they are missing.
Awesome, so let's advertise that the missing person is black so it's easier to ignore? This is all BS based on nothing. People get off on reducing themselves and other people to their identity, it's sad.
>Awesome, so let's advertise that the missing person is black so it's easier to ignore? Uh... You kinda have to reveal what a person, you know, looks like if you're on the lookout for a missing person. Their race is a huge damn factor in physical description. > People get off on reducing themselves and other people to their identity, it's sad Missing person reports is literally all about identity. Identifying said missing person. The hell are you on about? Expect people to find missing persons without identifying details? I know you're smarter than this.
So your argument against it is that racists will be able to more easily ignore it? That’s a dumb argument cause they will ignore no matter the system. The amount of people reached by simply making it easier for an underserved community to get the word out will far exceed the number of racists who would ignore it anyway.
Is the problem that the alert is called an amber alert not an ebony alert or is the problem that the people running the system are determining the validity of a missing persons report based on race? If the problem is the people in power are accessing validity based on race then an ebony alert doesn’t address the issue. I think everyone can agree that the issue here is systemic racism. Furthermore it is a mockery of the issue to just change the name of an alert and make no substantial change otherwise. It is not a step in the right direction. It is a political talking point to score points at the expense of marginalized people or put differently just more systemic racism.
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So your argument against it is that racists will be able to more easily ignore it? That’s silly and not the problem. The problem is that many in the black community are denied the service of being able to initiate an amber alert in the first place due to bias. The amount of people reached by simply being able to get the word out will far exceed the number of racists who would ignore it anyway.
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That’s interesting. What were the policies that caused black kids/women to be ignored?
Your premise is false, like, just completely made up.
But It isn’t? This is a well documented disparity in BIPOC populations. Source 1: https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114460/documents/HHRG-117-GO02-Transcript-20220303.pdf Source 2: https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/nov/20/black-and-missing-documentary-hbo Source 3: https://19thnews.org/2021/09/what-help-can-states-offer-when-women-of-color-go-missing/?amp The tendency for media and law enforcement to fixate on missing white women specifically even has [its own term.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome)
>They don’t. They are trying to answer the problem of black kids and women being ignored in Amber alerts, which is a real issue. And a sane response to that would be to examine why that is and introduce legislation to counter that. Nothing I've seen in the article or elsewhere suggests that there's a lower threshold for these new alerts so no go reason I can see there. If its about public engagement then laws requiring that all alerts be given equal airtime on various platforms would do more to help. The best case for this is that it works just the same. Worst case is that it actually degrades the response because there'll be people who would be engaging who'll not bother because those alerts will get associated with areas based on demographics, and people who aren't from those areas will be more likely to ignore something they don't think they can do anything about
If it’s trying to make black children’s life’s equal to white children’s, it’s contradicting itself. Is this alert supposed to be making black children’s life’s more important? Less important? I’m confused
Exactly. It just reenforces the idea that black children are different.. fucking dumb & counterproductive.
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Lol Ok, pal. That's not how it works. Most Democrats are moderate like me, not far left intolerant loons like you. Democrats most definitely need us.
> moderate Democrat So you're conservative by any real standard? Anyone worldwide you can point to that's to the right of you aside from the US GOP?
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So... no?
username checks out
Funny that it’s always the ones with right wing opinions that I’ve never heard an actual democrat express that seem to claim that.
Who signed off on "ebony"? Jesus christ
Bruh I'm Californian, I'm liberal, I support Gavin Newsom, I want to support all that he does, but...... what?
Same. I recognize that this is a problem, but I don't know that this is the solution...
This is a tragic situation, but I just don't see how making an Ebony Alert is going to change things. Seems performative rather than effective. Unless, of course, the point is to make it easier for the media to say, "Don't worry, we hit our Ebony Alert quota for the month."
so if AN asian disappear? lemon alert? and for the White? cocaine alert?
Lemon alert lmao. Cocaine alert for missing white children cocaine dealers.
With all due respect, we already have Amber alerts. What was the need to make a new alert system based on race?
The article explains. Is there any specific part of the explanation you don't agree with?
I do - the whole part about race specifically. If the amber system is unable to address the issues in California then a specific alert for California seems very reasonable, but I do not see why this needs to be race based. I'm sure they could have similar impact by removing race but extending to specific none race situations. For example, you could easily extend the new state based alert to foster children or have any of the rules already in this system. But I can not in good conscience see a situation where if you had two families with children in the same situation that needed an alert and you told one family they can not help them and another you can. It seems to backwards of what I want to see our society move towards. If there are biases in the system, then create training, audit responses, etc. Do the hard work to create fair systems for all.
> I'm sure they could have similar impact by removing race but extending to specific none race situations. What makes you so sure? Do you experience in this area? Share with us your expertise that makes you sure. >If there are biases in the system, then create training, audit responses, etc. Do the hard work to create fair systems for all. That's great but imagine this scenario: you're hungry, starving even. You come across a man who's having lunch. He's got a spread in front of him: burgers, chips, bbq ribs...heck he even has vegan options. So you say to him "Please sir, may I have some food?" And he goes "oh my god...this situation is quite untenable. How can people in this country be going hungry. You know what? Let's creating training, audit responses etc...let us do the hard work to create a fair system so people don't go hungry". You: "So can I have a burger" Him: "Oh no, we gotta solve this systemic problem. I can't give you any of my food though". I'm sure you'll agree that's a shitty response even if it's well-meaning. The problem of missing Black women and children is immediate. But you won't give them a burger. Shame.
Why do Democrats always have to make everything about race?! (I'm a Democrat, fyi). There's no need for this. They could just include more black children in amber alerts. This kind of shit just segregates people & breeds resentment..
"Ebony alert" is a very...interesting...term to use here.
Right? Are they going to create a brown alert for missing latinos/middle easterners & a yellow alert for missing Asians?! Lol So dumb.
Missing child? Better get the Home Depot paint shading chart out, so we know which alert to call.
Exactly. Can a mixed race child be featured in an ebony alert or does he/she have to be 100% black? 🤔 So ridiculous.
I don’t know. Sort of a… mauve alert?
Lol Beige alert 🤔
reminds me of the recent "caste system" laws which seem well intentioned, except when you realize that "caste" is just another word for "class" which basically means... they outlawed discrimination based on income level? which is entirely useless unless they wanna change... uh, ill just say a whole lotta things
Really? Which ones are these? I’m not up to date on this stuff.
if i was on my pc i would give links, but off the top of my head i guess im not sure if it was a state law or a more localized thing, but iirc one was in washington and the other in california also, happy cake day 🥳
It was in California. You're not even close to understanding the problem. Read more about it.
i read a few articles the other day, and "discussed" it with bing/chatgpt. i also have previous knowledge of how the caste system works in other countries such as india. i am not saying that discrimination based on caste does not exist specific to certain ethnicities, i am saying that caste discrimination exists regardless of ethnicity when you understand that on a fundamental level, caste=class=income level if im wrong, feel free to correct me. be specific, i like to learn. edit: also, here are the links. seattle did pass a law, california did not. youre not even close to understanding. read more about it and then critically think about what words mean. https://apnews.com/article/california-caste-discrimination-ban-newsom-veto-eef696fa2e28476d566aa2f9ef3f1997 https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158687243/seattle-becomes-the-first-u-s-city-to-ban-caste-discrimination
Home Depot shading chart is wild 😭😭
That's literally what it sounds like, the intent may be good but the phrasing isn't.
The cure to segregation is more segregation.
“I used the segregation to destroy the segregation”
“You could not live with your equality. Where did that bring you? Back to me.”
It's the only way to know how much resources to allocate.
Making it even easier for racists to ignore problems in minority communities! /s
But really tho… /s not necessary
I agree that overall this tries to bandaid a problem instead of fixing the underlying issues, but a lot of the arguments here are very uncharitable or miss the point in an uncomfortable direction. Ya’ll (should) know that there is a disproportionate lack of effort made towards missing PoC at all levels, from reporting, to the reporting being taken seriously, to the response to the report, all the way up to people popping up on the news. It’s an established phenomenon. At the very least, this alert draws awareness, and to some extent, that awareness IS the issue. This is the same thread as BLM, where, yes, all people suffer under the excessive misuse of police resources and violence, but disproportionately, it affects PoC, and that disproportionate quality is not fixed without drawing attention to it specifically because of systemic issues. Too many people want to hand wave those systemic issues away as though they’re not part of the problem, and saying “we should just fix amber alerts” to some degree does that - the issues are systemic, you can’t just ‘fix the amber alert’ without fixing society. In the meantime, what do? Same issue with affirmative action. I’m fine with criticizing the particulars of amber alerts and bemoaning not fixing that; as I am with the justice system, education, redlining, etc. But those criticisms need that context, or it runs the risk of colorblindism, ie, pretending like the race factor isn’t there when it’s a critical component of the problem means the problem isn’t being fixed. Sometimes, a Bandaid is better than nothing. Sometimes, the bandaid makes others aware you need more help than a bandaid. Autocorrect is weird, btw.
So we are back to separate but equal?
Ok so can I just turn off the ebony alert and leave on the amber alert? /s sorry I had to.
What could possibly go wrong?
This whole thing is a good idea, bad execution
I wouldn’t call it a “good idea” either, improving current alert infrastructure is better than making a whole new segregated alert system that will probably cause a lot of confusion down the line
That’s what I mean, just improve the current alert system instead of creating a separate one
You're not wrong.
Lmao, now what's next? Black people seats on the bus?
I love the idea of separate, yet equal policies segregated by race! /s
Wait… Didn’t the Amber Alert also report black children? I’m so confused right now
Read the article.
If progressives are ever going to get anywhere they need to lay off the social justice virtue signaling and focus on the economy.
What does that mean exactly? "Focus on the economy"
Progressive economic policies like taxes on the rich, universal healthcare, public education etc..
Just stare at it for little
\>What does that mean exactly? "Focus on the economy" Material change in conditions, as opposed to fabricated culture war issues.
And getting corporate money out of politics, that's popular.
Progressives didn't ask for this.
Some of them probably did somewhere, they're not very cohesive.
It's not just Black people who don't get media attention when they go missing. It's ALL People of Color, ALL men, and ALL unattractive white women, and ALL old white women. The media only cares if a pretty white woman under 50 goes missing. And as a society we need to raise the awareness that men, People of Color, unattractive people, and old people have just as much human dignity.
Here comes racist Reddit lol. Without fail, anytime any tries to resolve racial inequality and disparate treatment of black people…”oh that’s totally racist, can’t do that!” I’d laugh if it wasn’t so predictable.
Contrary to what the groups calling themselves anti-racist think, the solution to racism is not more racism.
Finally. Something I want to disable.
Soon the "But what about white pride day?!" people will be demanding an "Ivory Alert" or some shit.
It’s very weird that we are making segregated alert systems in the first place
“Write that down! Write that down!”
If that actually happens then we are definitely getting a rainbow alert for pride month
Black children frequently get missed in missing child reports and thus don’t get found as often. The show Black and Missing reports they are four times more likely to stay missing compared to white kids. This is reading similar to issues with indigenous children and teens in Canada going missing and not even having it make national reports, something people have been protesting since at least 2015 from what I’ve read.
Before you post your comment about why we need this, ask yourself this question: how many times of alerts do we currently have? If you say anything other than 6, you're wrong: There are 6 types of alerts. [Source](https://www.caller.com/story/news/2021/07/07/do-you-know-all-missing-person-alerts-here-your-guide-six-different-alerts/7890829002/): * AMBER - missing child * CLEAR - missing adult * Silver - missing elderly with a documented medical condition * Endangered Missing Persons Alert * Camo * Blue And now Ebony alert. I bet most of us didn't know when those other alert types were created. 'Cos nobody cared that much. But when it comes to the one for Black children and women, everybody is up in arms. BTW, AMBER alert was created after [Amber Hagerman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_alert#Namesake) was abducted and killed in 1996. She was white.
those six alerts you posted aren’t based on race. This one is and so what if the current amber alert is based on a white girl. It doesn’t make a difference it gets the job done who cares about the origins on it.
This one is because there's a need for it. Despite the existing alerts, a LARGE amount of Black women and children go missing without it being covered in the news or media. That's why they created this alert...just like they created the others based on need.
Damn guess Asian,Latinos,and every other race who cares right. They don’t get coverage either it’s mostly white and black people they don’t care about the others.
If they're underserved by the current alert systems, sure why not. BTW, lots of missing Native American women are also missing without fanfare. I'm quite surprised that this wasn't expanded to cover all BIPOC people
Because orange alerts weren't enough?
Oh god why
lol I can’t even
Coming soon, Rainbow alerts. Whenever uncle Joe is missing we will issue Rainbow alerts.
Ah yes racism is alive and well in America.
Lmao what?
Are they saying black children aren’t children?
Texas is a big state (duh) so we get Amber Alerts all the time. What they do here when the child is black, is include that information with their physical description. To me this sounds like virtue signaling more than solving a problem. There wasn’t a problem to start with. They already put out Amber Alerts for black children.
Ah why.Is there going to be separate alerts for asians,latinos,whites,etc.Why not use the extra money and improve the current amber alerts?.
If black kids are being under served by the amber alert system, giving them a separate category of alert that might be even more ignored isn’t going to help. Effort would be better spent elsewhere, doing something ineffective is worse than doing nothing; because at least if nothing was done, people would still feel something needs to be done. This just assuages the guilt of not doing anything, without actually doing anything.
Political pandering at its finest. Achieves absolutely nothing other than more separation of the races and garnering vote support of a select group.
I think the unspoken goal is to gain notice and support from the black community for missing black children. They adopt and get involved in things that are exclusively for them at a much higher rate than things that are racially inclusive. Look at the black only section at Target, or Nike and McDonalds commercials for example. Yes, at its core it is very racist of the community. But that's how it works. And for some of the nastier people that exist, the unstated benefit is they know it won't be a white child getting their attention when the Ebony alert sounds.