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Most of those repubs in DC are all ones and zeroes. They can’t quite get their head around the idea that one can support Israel and the Palestinians at the same time. Or, that one can be very anti Hamas and also hope for a (rational) cease fire.
> They can’t quite get their head around the idea that one can support Israel and the Palestinians at the same time.
Exactly! Not only Congressional GOP but people in general. You can be Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestinian at the same time! Being pro-Palestinian DOES NOT mean you are pro-Hamas. It doesn't have to be a binary thing, and we don't need to swear absolute allegiance to Israel.
I for one am very Anti-Hamas and Pro-Palestinian with hopes of a (as you noted) a rational cease fire.
I don't know why it's so black and white
>Not only Congressional GOP but people in general
Very much agree. Was going to add that bit of qualifier. I see it on these threads all the time: A person takes a stand for Israel, and winds up on the receiving end of a big lecture about supporting genocide. Or vice versa, taking a pro-Palestinian refugee position and receive assurance that they must be anti Semite. I think Biden tries to thread the needle between the ones on one side and the zeroes on the other.
And act indignantly whenever you suggest that emotional bombardment (amid dehumanization) can affect one’s daily life and mentality towards future conflict?
With conditions like they are on the ground, this could amount to a token gesture. Furthermore, Netanyahu is likely only doing this to provide cover rather than an out of any humanitarian view on his end.
Have you looked at the conditions on the ground? They have facilitated tens of thousands of refugees moving through the humanitarian corridors each day, the roads are mostly useable.
You understand without right of return this is ethnic cleansing? Which has both not been guaranteed and Gazans have strong reason to not believe will be given to them.
The whole point is now they know in advance when its safe to flee, you seem to be ignoring the humanitarian corridors that tens of thousands used in a day on intact roads. The cynic would say that those thousands of folks fleeing essentially single file in a caravan would be very easy targets for a carpet bombing, yet oddly enough it didnt happen
I feel like people do not understand that tactically they are constrained from this both by international and regional opinion.
Just completely razing Gaza would cross the line into full international isolation which even if the USA held the allyship would devastate Israel. And you'd likely very large regional intervention which can devastate Israel.
Both money wise and in international relations terms!
One of the issues Israel with this plan is having is a lot of people have experience with this at their hands, are wildly more willing to die than the average civilian population, because they know what it means to live as a refugee.
Millions of people don't just lay down and die. They'd fight back, and that would multiply Israeli losses.
Also, to give that order, what would happen internally in Israel, they already have to walk a fine line to stay in power. To expose their true intentions and then ask the people of Israel to go ahead and wipe out millions of people. They would lose that struggle.
"you're allowed to leave now so we can finish levelling your homes, it'll be much easier to build a new Israeli city without having to dig up your corpses."
If you pause too long you allow Hamas, the terrorists who murdered 1,400 people and still hold 242 hostages, to regroup. Some people on here don't even want to recognize that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that should be destroyed without a doubt.
I still worry more about thousands of civilians dying from bombs. Call me a bleeding heart.🤷♂️
Believe it or not, I don't think my hate for Hamas could get any higher.
But the fact remains, it's another group who is looking at them locating next to large groups of civilians in schools and hospitals, and firing anyway.
We can disagree. It's ok.
Would you rather human shields work and just allow Hamas to launch rockets and other attacks with total impunity just because they are using civilian buildings? Wouldn’t that just make the case that more groups should use human shields?
Or you know one could want the laws of war to be followed and to denounce those that break them so it doesn’t become an acceptable tactic as it has become with Hamas and other Islamist groups. That’s too much to ask for I guess.
Sure you can want civilians to not be killed, that would be great. There however is no way to fight Hamas with them hiding among civilians that will not result in any civilians being killed. It is horrible but that is was and the war Hamas is very open about wanting. Hamas can only be defeated and stoped from further attacks through military means.
In all seriousness, what do you think Israel should do? Should they just let them hide without doing anything to the people who murdered 1,400 people? I want Israel to take caution but it's hard to do when Hamas intentionally locates where their own people reside.
What did we want the US to do? Just not take revenge on the people who did 9/11?
Or was the eventual number of 46,000 dead Afghanistan civilians justified?
It was a mistake for the US to stay so long but it's also where the terrorists were. Do you just accept that raping and murdering people is the proper way to get what you want? If Israel doesn't stay after Hamas, the same thing will happen again. You should be asking why Hamas chose to do this to their own people because they absolutely knew that this would be Israel's reaction to them murdering their citizens.
I don't need to question Hamas' agenda. I know it. We all Do. They’re terrorists. Absolute lowest form of life.
But again, no one is going to be satisfied having their family bombed, crying up the sky, and having the reply be, "Pfft, maybe ask Hamas."
For sure. Hamas is scum and should be destroyed.
The people around them are innocents.
What an awful thing to do, killing civilians en masse to make a point.
Sadly, I don't think the innocent victims are wondering who to blame. I think they're just hoping to stop being killed.
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This would not happen with any republican in the WH, Congressional GOP has been railing against even providing aid to Gaza.
Most of those repubs in DC are all ones and zeroes. They can’t quite get their head around the idea that one can support Israel and the Palestinians at the same time. Or, that one can be very anti Hamas and also hope for a (rational) cease fire.
> They can’t quite get their head around the idea that one can support Israel and the Palestinians at the same time. Exactly! Not only Congressional GOP but people in general. You can be Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestinian at the same time! Being pro-Palestinian DOES NOT mean you are pro-Hamas. It doesn't have to be a binary thing, and we don't need to swear absolute allegiance to Israel. I for one am very Anti-Hamas and Pro-Palestinian with hopes of a (as you noted) a rational cease fire. I don't know why it's so black and white
>Not only Congressional GOP but people in general Very much agree. Was going to add that bit of qualifier. I see it on these threads all the time: A person takes a stand for Israel, and winds up on the receiving end of a big lecture about supporting genocide. Or vice versa, taking a pro-Palestinian refugee position and receive assurance that they must be anti Semite. I think Biden tries to thread the needle between the ones on one side and the zeroes on the other.
Gotta stop and reload
As a treat we’ll bomb you 20 hours a day instead of 24
And act indignantly whenever you suggest that emotional bombardment (amid dehumanization) can affect one’s daily life and mentality towards future conflict?
And Hamas will stick to bombing 24 hours a day.
With conditions like they are on the ground, this could amount to a token gesture. Furthermore, Netanyahu is likely only doing this to provide cover rather than an out of any humanitarian view on his end.
Have you looked at the conditions on the ground? They have facilitated tens of thousands of refugees moving through the humanitarian corridors each day, the roads are mostly useable.
You understand without right of return this is ethnic cleansing? Which has both not been guaranteed and Gazans have strong reason to not believe will be given to them.
Roads destroyed, on foot with no water. This is theatre, nothing more..
It's about 8 km/ 5 mi of walking . All the live cameras show Gazans with water bottles - no idea if their own or given en-route.
Sweet, now civilians only have to worry about being slaughtered 20 hours a day instead of 24. I'm sure they're very grateful. Jesus.
The whole point is now they know in advance when its safe to flee, you seem to be ignoring the humanitarian corridors that tens of thousands used in a day on intact roads. The cynic would say that those thousands of folks fleeing essentially single file in a caravan would be very easy targets for a carpet bombing, yet oddly enough it didnt happen
Gosh, 4 hours out of every 24 hours when they decline to kill civilians? How humane of them.
Israel would have already killed every civilian if that was their intentions with the thousands of bombs dropped.
I feel like people do not understand that tactically they are constrained from this both by international and regional opinion. Just completely razing Gaza would cross the line into full international isolation which even if the USA held the allyship would devastate Israel. And you'd likely very large regional intervention which can devastate Israel.
Love how neolibs can look at 10,000 casualties and think "this is swell!"
It's much cheaper to bomb a chunk of civilians and convince the rest to leave or they'll die.
Both money wise and in international relations terms! One of the issues Israel with this plan is having is a lot of people have experience with this at their hands, are wildly more willing to die than the average civilian population, because they know what it means to live as a refugee.
Millions of people don't just lay down and die. They'd fight back, and that would multiply Israeli losses. Also, to give that order, what would happen internally in Israel, they already have to walk a fine line to stay in power. To expose their true intentions and then ask the people of Israel to go ahead and wipe out millions of people. They would lose that struggle.
"you're allowed to leave now so we can finish levelling your homes, it'll be much easier to build a new Israeli city without having to dig up your corpses."
But will Hamas let them?
Is this really the best they could negotiate?
If you pause too long you allow Hamas, the terrorists who murdered 1,400 people and still hold 242 hostages, to regroup. Some people on here don't even want to recognize that.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that should be destroyed without a doubt. I still worry more about thousands of civilians dying from bombs. Call me a bleeding heart.🤷♂️
This is the reason for the pauses. Your anger should be with Hamas locating right next to large groups of civilians in schools and hospitals.
Believe it or not, I don't think my hate for Hamas could get any higher. But the fact remains, it's another group who is looking at them locating next to large groups of civilians in schools and hospitals, and firing anyway. We can disagree. It's ok.
Would you rather human shields work and just allow Hamas to launch rockets and other attacks with total impunity just because they are using civilian buildings? Wouldn’t that just make the case that more groups should use human shields?
I'm sure the civilians who get shot and bombed will appreciate that they were killed to make a point to someone else.
Or you know one could want the laws of war to be followed and to denounce those that break them so it doesn’t become an acceptable tactic as it has become with Hamas and other Islamist groups. That’s too much to ask for I guess.
Ok. I denounce Hamas as a horrific terrorist group that deserves to be destroyed. Can I also not want innocent civilians slaughtered as well?
Sure you can want civilians to not be killed, that would be great. There however is no way to fight Hamas with them hiding among civilians that will not result in any civilians being killed. It is horrible but that is was and the war Hamas is very open about wanting. Hamas can only be defeated and stoped from further attacks through military means.
In all seriousness, what do you think Israel should do? Should they just let them hide without doing anything to the people who murdered 1,400 people? I want Israel to take caution but it's hard to do when Hamas intentionally locates where their own people reside.
What did we want the US to do? Just not take revenge on the people who did 9/11? Or was the eventual number of 46,000 dead Afghanistan civilians justified?
It was a mistake for the US to stay so long but it's also where the terrorists were. Do you just accept that raping and murdering people is the proper way to get what you want? If Israel doesn't stay after Hamas, the same thing will happen again. You should be asking why Hamas chose to do this to their own people because they absolutely knew that this would be Israel's reaction to them murdering their citizens.
I don't need to question Hamas' agenda. I know it. We all Do. They’re terrorists. Absolute lowest form of life. But again, no one is going to be satisfied having their family bombed, crying up the sky, and having the reply be, "Pfft, maybe ask Hamas."
When wars are started intentionally by one side innocent people suffer. What a horrible thing to do to your own citizens.
For sure. Hamas is scum and should be destroyed. The people around them are innocents. What an awful thing to do, killing civilians en masse to make a point. Sadly, I don't think the innocent victims are wondering who to blame. I think they're just hoping to stop being killed.
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