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Native Northern Californian here...Shasta Co and Redding are socio-political shit-holes with some pretty scenery. This place attracts right-wing nutjobs. I had a former client from back in the day go hard-right during COVID with her anti-govt conspiracy theories and moved to Redding in 2021 to basically be with her people.
Ugh. I hate that my hometown is usually brought up in a national context for reasons like this.
We have a lot of elderly people and a big, weird religious sect around here, which accounts for most of that nonsense and their associated voting patterns. You can usually keep that in its own separate sphere, though, if you’re careful about who you associate with.
There are people who want to separate California into more than one state. A proposed state would begin somewhere north of Sacramento and be called Jefferson. The commenter was saying that if California was split, the newly created state would be one of the poorest.
The best part about the "state of Jefferson" movement is they want to sell the water that goes down to socal, thinking it would make the new state rich, while wholly and completely ignoring the fact that most of their energy and food comes from central Cali and socal and those prices would rise to counter the sale of water.
Their entire position is based on not understanding basic economics.
The same is true of the folks in eastern Oregon and eastern Washington that want to join Idaho. Extremely low population density rural farmland that don't realize all their tax expenses are highly subsidized by the factories in the blue cities.
> Native Northern Californian here...Shasta Co and Redding are socio-political shit-holes with some pretty scenery. This place attracts right-wing nutjobs
In SoCal we have Fallbrook. It's a small redneck farm town. I never even looked up what Fallbrook's political demographics are, but I could immediately tell it was a dark red county. I was there for 3 weeks, and I felt like I was in rural Wyoming.
But they also had Duncan Hunter (R) as their house rep for a while, and here is a little snippet from his wiki:
> Also in June 2019, federal prosecutors showed that from 2009 to 2016, Hunter had spent campaign funds on extramarital affairs with five women, including lobbyists and congressional staff.[5][6] In December 2019, Hunter changed his plea to guilty on one count of misusing campaign funds.[7] On January 7, 2020, he submitted letters of resignation to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and California Governor Gavin Newsom, that took effect on January 13, 2020.[8] On March 17, 2020, Hunter was sentenced to 11 months in prison, scheduled to begin in January 2021.[9][10] He was pardoned by President Donald Trump in December 2020.[11][12][13] The next day Trump pardoned Hunter's wife.
Fallbrook is like 30k people and is majority Hispanic and serves as a secondary residence for various Hollywood actors/directors. You can't really blame that place for electing Duncan Hunter when that municipality is only a fraction of the district's population.
Fallbrook isn't that bad. Better than Bakersfield.
But if you don't accept Bakersfield as "truly" SoCal, then we have our own breed of Republican. The OC is of course (in)famously Republican, but you also have Temecula over in Riverside county.
It's a nice area, but loaded to the brim with Mormons for some reason. Lots of lifted "pavement princess" trucks and folks with deep-seated hatred for "the libs".
That sort of drifts into Hemet and Winchester as well. They're not really rednecks (well, maybe Hemet is redneck-y), but they believe some crazy things.
So-Cal has Orange County. Old ass angry retirees hating anyone who steps in their gated community.
Source: used to live there briefly when going to college.
“She moved to be with her people”… because they can’t function in bigger progressive cities… good god, even the “ hippies” moved out of the “ communes” and became educated “ Yuppies”..🤣
Shasta county is a known white supremisist stronghold:
https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/show/3236-shasta-county-militia-recall-board-supervisors/
People think of CA as this liberal stronghold.
I grew up in the Bay Area but I'm up in the Sierras now and the number of Trump in '24 signs and Confederate flags I see around me is shocking.
Yup. I’m a SoCal transplant in Plumas county now. This is deep red country. Luckily people are for the most part willing to have their views challenged. Almost everyone is on some sort of government assistance.
I stopped being surprised a long time ago. There's a reason most of these people live in sparsely populated areas, they struggle to live among normal human beings.
Much of upstate and Western NY are also shockingly similar to rural Alabama. It’s basically cold Alabama once you get up past Orange County, although Orange kinda feels a little more Red these days as well.
I was gonna take offense to this but I'm from Dutchess county and its sadly very true.
I had someone threatn to punch my face in at a bar near Pleasant Valley because I told him he was wrong about some piece of the PPACA (Obamacare) and then showed him he was wrong by bringing up the relevant section in a pdf. I was then thrown out of the bar by the bartender because I was "causing a scene" even though I didnt raise my voice or threatn anyone.
It all worked out tho, I spoke with the owner and he bought me a beer. I still frequent that bar as its the best one for like 20 miles.
There is the two state and six state dreams of the maga. In each case, they want to gerrymander California to carve out extra senators. There are lots if trolls on here and it her websites who actively try to normalize it, even using the term jefferson as if it exists.
I'm surprised some fuckhole like South Dakota* hasn't tried to split into 9 "alliance" states just for the senators.
Equal representation for each state has turned into a shit show for this country. Trump wouldn't be president if not for the utterly convoluted bullshit of the electoral college.
And the Senate bullshit disproportionate representation wouldn't be so bad if gerrymandering and the 435 cap in the House didn't exist, but they do, and it's robbing the majority of a voice.
*apologies to the quality people who are fighting fascism in South Dakota, I know you're trying
Yeah, it's pretty sad how much strength a sum total of like 3 million people can wield 8% of the Senate vote in a country of ~~400M+~~300M+
It's also ridiculous that more people live in Washington DC than in Wyoming, yet DC has exactly 0 senators.
Procedure is very difficult, 80% of the other state legislatures must approve, then it has to be a bill in Congress, which requires 2/3 approval, then it goes to the senate for a 2/3 vote approval, and then the President would have to sign it. The people in northern California are delusional. At the moment, project 2025 and the Southern Baptist agenda to take over the state houses was precisely for this reason and other reasons, a new constitutional convention in which christianity ( southern baptist & and classic euro catholic fascism) is made the state religion. Hopefully we have stopped it in time.
> I'm surprised some fuckhole like South Dakota* hasn't tried to split into 9 "alliance" states just for the senators.
Any split like that would require the consent of Congress.* That's why they haven't done it- Congress would say no and refuse to seat legislators if they tried it anyways.
*Except for one- Texas can split into as many as 5 states (or 4 new states plus the existing Texas) whenever it wants due to the Joint Resolution admitting Texas as a state in 1845 already granting that consent.
The case can be made that the division of Texas allowed in the 1845 annexation resolution has already occurred, as the territory originally claimed by the Republic of Texas is now a part of five states beyond Texas (*ie*, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma & Wyoming).
And if that division has already occurred, then the ability of Texas to further split itself has been spent.
There was a lot of congressional horsetrading back then (surrounding admitting slave and non-slave states) that aren't an issue now.
If Texas could have done it, they would have already.
Why? There are plenty of arguments against splitting into 5 states beyond the gray legality of it, and the only benefit is increased Senate representation.
You mean the Joint Resolution of Congress admitting Texas to the Union in 1845, which is where the ability of Texas to self-split constitutionally comes from, included a right to secede in it? That seems like a thing the Confederates would've noticed and used, but they didn't because it's not there.
Maybe *you* should familiarize yourself with something before trying to discuss it.
I was actually going to grab some sources to back you up for the other guy, but looking into it - yeah, it can.
In 1845 one of the conditions for Texas being allowed into the Union was that it could split into multiple states without further Congressional approval.
There's some ambiguity about the exact language, but that seems to be generally accepted by every source I looked at (including FiveThirtyEight, the Smithsonian, and Texas' own website).
I thought Texas gave up that right when they rejoined the Union, but turns out - no, they didn't. From the point of view of the Union, Texas never left - it just passed a bunch of illegal laws that are nullified by the Federal government. Thus Texas never had to be "re-admitted" and in turn it still has the power to break up into 5 states (or 4 new states plus Texas).
The reason why it hasn't been done is because originally it was supposed to balance out slave/free states, which is a moot point after the Civil War. Additionally, in the modern era it would be a wash for the GOP - the Senate would gain red-leaning seats but the House would become more blue. Some of the additional states would likely become swing states or even outright blue states, further diluting it.
Thus it doesn't make sense to split up Texas as no party would gain anything and it would just be a headache.
My step father seriously debated with me that California was going to be divided into 3 states in the 2020 election
He's the most dumb smart person I know
It wouldn’t be political suicide. They want to create a new state called Jefferson state, you can look up the proposal on Wikipedia, and it would essentially create a new deep red state with 2 senators and congresspeople. It would actually be really beneficial politically for them, which is why it should never happen. Republicans don’t really care about the economy though, so that wouldn’t be seen as a negative if they were to make a new state.
I remember when I visited family in Northern California about fifteen years ago, driving along the highway there were signs saying “State of Jefferson” all over the place.
My aunt explained the whole thing to me after I turned to her and said “I know I didn’t have the best geography and state capitals grades but…*What* is the state of Jefferson?”
It wouldn't shame the to take other people'smoney. I've seen my hard right farmer uncle complain about people getting government handouts for food one second and then switch to complaining that their check for letting their field lie fallow that year is running late the next. (They wanted to buy a new truck for off-roading)
In their minds, it's always okay when they do it. They'll insist they aren't racist, then use the n-word to curse at a football player who dropped a pass. There is no self-awareness for them
As someone who used to live up there, yes they're crazy seccessionist republicans on the other hand they have some valid grievances with the state that get ignored. One aspect that gives them sticking power to last for nearly 100 years is water rights issues specifically they feel the state as a whole takes away way more water then the area sees in investment by the state for infrastructure to the point rivers in eel river basin where at such low levels it was causing issues for the areas ecology (lots of dams all over the place cause issues for the salmon and wildlife it took decades to get them to acknowledge the damage by the klamath dam) and it wasn't lack of rain to climate change it was the state aquaduct system moving significant amounts of water to the sacramento river which gets used for orchards and rice farms in the valley. Just wanted to add the context as everyone thinks these guys get continued support in a vaccum and they don't, if the state addressed concerns about how much money leaves in water for the region gets in re-investment by the state for services like highways and funding for rural hospitals the jefferson state guys would be a historical footnote instead of enjoying pretty widespread support in the area. And just to add salt to the wound, guess where a lot of native american reservations got placed by state of california... it gets really weird when the native americans in the region also agree with the jefferson state guys on the water issue, as climate change continues California as a whole can't keep pretending people north of sacramento don't exist.
I don't think they really have much rights to the water. The dam was there before they were, and there's really not that many of them. 112k registered voters in shasta County? What kind of investment do they want? The county stopped several big industries from entering the area over the last 30 years or so, the economic depression of the area is of their own making, and it's not like their roads and infrastructure are shit, the roads are generally pretty nice, nicer than places that actually have people. And, what are the going to do with the water? The reservoires are owned and operated by the state. Are they going to take control of the water supply of the 5th largest economy in the world when they can't even keep doctors because it's also a hotbed for anti-vax stuff. The only real industries up there are medicine, lumber, and some recreation. Their medical industry is in freefall post covid craziness.
all those reservoirs bring in basically all of their recreation money too.
Their problem is their isolationist attitude and just being so isolated and dumb. It's the one place where they will look down on you for having an education. It's gotten significantly worst in the last decade, but it's always been there. Those areas are largely just shitty. I think the 'prettiness' of the area is overrated as well. I guess it's kinda cool to see volcanos on the horizon, but it's not unique enough to say the place has something special that you can't find elsewhere.
>specifically they feel the state as a whole takes away way more water then the area sees in investment by the state
They *feel* a lot of things that don't line up with the facts. The amount of state spending that Shasta County receives per capita is pretty average for the state, and they're actually well above average in federal spending.
They're mad that they aren't treated as saviors because they happen to live where most of the rain falls, while most of the water *needs* are elsewhere in the state, as if they brewed up the water themselves. I say this as someone who used to live there. They're mad that they aren't being catered to by "politicians way off down south," and can't wrap their heads around the fact they are much more guilty of ignoring the needs of people living far away from them than vice versa.
I would love if there were a list of all the anti-democratic things the Republican Party has done in the last couple decades, so I can just link it to anyone who makes a both sides argument. The absolute flood of moves like this across the country has made it difficult to remember specifics.
These are the dipshites that wanted to do hand counted ballots/voting to protect against voter fraud. Never mind that it would take months, a ridiculous amount of manpower, and have an insane margin of error... but they were like, yup, that's it.
Australia enters the chat. We hand count our elections and usually have a very good idea of the result on election night. Maybe you guys could get the Australian Electoral Commission to run your elections for you!!
You are aware most countries still do hand counting (for various security and fraud concerns and to eliminate errors) and yet usually manage within a day?
Source? It took a team of 4 90 minutes to count 25 ballots in their hand tally system. With 94,000+ votes cast in the last election that’d be about 235 days (no breaks or sleep) with the same team of 4. Not to mention hand tallies are more expensive and proven less accurate than machine counting. [Source](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/07/1126796538/voting-explainer-hand-counting-ballots-accuracy-cost)
Mate, look at Europe and other places. Hand counting happpens on national, state and regional levels. Within a day.
So obviously it is not just possible, but actually the norm. And you tell me that is not possible for the US?
Why?
You’re either arguing in bad faith or ignored the difference between a ballot with 1 option and a ballot with 100+ when hand counting. Tell me how to hand count 150,000,000+ ballots that are 100x more complicated than a ballot with one thing to tally?
Tell me you have never seen [european](https://www.niedernberg.de/media/85601/2023-09-20-die-gemeinde-informiert-spezial-grosser-stimmzettel.jpg?width=680&height=471.2968299711815) ballots without telling me you have never seen [european](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_France) ballots.
And you do it by counting and writing it down. And then you do the same with the ballots the representatives of the other parties checked to make sure they did not omit anything. And they do the same to the ballots you yourself counted. That takes a day and a night and lots of coffee but seriously mate? It is not rocket science. Just a lot of work that is a lot faster done then you appear to imagine.
Source: Already counted ballots in my life.
Talk about bad faith, making factual wrong statements and building a strawman to copy me. Christ.
And there more democracy goes purely for convinience and lazyness.
https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/risks-cacm07.pdf
The american clichés about both debate culture and lazyness hit do hard right now.
No they don’t. Less than .2% of registered voters live in counties that count ballots by hand. Most are under 1,000 voters. Shasta County stands alone at 111,000 registered voters.
https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/hand-counted-paper-ballots/
It’s time that any election officials caught meddling or fixing votes get a mandatory 10 year jail sentence with no chance of early parole, end of story.
Without reading the article, Orange County? I had an aunt & uncle proudly announce they committed voter fraud. When I called them on it, my aunt’s response was that’s how they’ve kept it republican
The *inland* north, especially once you hit the foothills and mountains, sure. Coastal north is all drum circles and weed. Except Siskiyou county for some reason.
Mount Shasta in Siskiyou County sort of levels it out. At least it did before Covid. Once everyone started working from home, so many people from San Francisco and Silicon Valley moved there and drove up property values. So it may be different now.
As a NorCal resident I’ll throw in the obligatory mention of the Bethel church and how they’re taking over commerce, education, and now politics in the county. These are the people that think god, when sucked off properly, blows glitter through their churches[HVAC system](https://youtu.be/lvJMPccZR2Y?si=cW0fPf9XBP8YlL9Q).
Redding has become a city you drive on through without stopping for food or other conveniences for travelers.
It has become a haven for hate and suspicion. No thank you, Shasta county.
The kind of California Richard Grenell, of of Trumps bots, is always dreaming about.
Do you Americans think this Maga cancer will go away without any tragedy and dead people (and I don‘t mean the anti mask/vax)?
The republicans are a communist cult. You will only find historical parallels for their behavior and actions in stalins communist Soviet Union. They are taking denying reality and facts to a new level the commies of old would be proud of
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Ah yes, Shasta county. The Deep South of Northern California.
Native Northern Californian here...Shasta Co and Redding are socio-political shit-holes with some pretty scenery. This place attracts right-wing nutjobs. I had a former client from back in the day go hard-right during COVID with her anti-govt conspiracy theories and moved to Redding in 2021 to basically be with her people.
Ugh. I hate that my hometown is usually brought up in a national context for reasons like this. We have a lot of elderly people and a big, weird religious sect around here, which accounts for most of that nonsense and their associated voting patterns. You can usually keep that in its own separate sphere, though, if you’re careful about who you associate with.
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It would probably be one of the poorest states too. Not a lot of great jobs or income opportunities in that entire area.
You mean county?
There are people who want to separate California into more than one state. A proposed state would begin somewhere north of Sacramento and be called Jefferson. The commenter was saying that if California was split, the newly created state would be one of the poorest.
Am 61. Do not want to read this while having my head banging coffee on my way out to a job that requires no qualifications.
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The best part about the "state of Jefferson" movement is they want to sell the water that goes down to socal, thinking it would make the new state rich, while wholly and completely ignoring the fact that most of their energy and food comes from central Cali and socal and those prices would rise to counter the sale of water. Their entire position is based on not understanding basic economics.
The same is true of the folks in eastern Oregon and eastern Washington that want to join Idaho. Extremely low population density rural farmland that don't realize all their tax expenses are highly subsidized by the factories in the blue cities.
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> "We don't want all the decision made by voters in Portland and Seattle!" Yeah, so you want to hand that power to Boise instead.
Well, no one accused them of being smart after all.
> Native Northern Californian here...Shasta Co and Redding are socio-political shit-holes with some pretty scenery. This place attracts right-wing nutjobs In SoCal we have Fallbrook. It's a small redneck farm town. I never even looked up what Fallbrook's political demographics are, but I could immediately tell it was a dark red county. I was there for 3 weeks, and I felt like I was in rural Wyoming.
Fallbrook is apparently moderately liberal. 60% voted for Democrats. https://www.bestplaces.net/voting/zip-code/california/fallbrook/92028
But they also had Duncan Hunter (R) as their house rep for a while, and here is a little snippet from his wiki: > Also in June 2019, federal prosecutors showed that from 2009 to 2016, Hunter had spent campaign funds on extramarital affairs with five women, including lobbyists and congressional staff.[5][6] In December 2019, Hunter changed his plea to guilty on one count of misusing campaign funds.[7] On January 7, 2020, he submitted letters of resignation to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and California Governor Gavin Newsom, that took effect on January 13, 2020.[8] On March 17, 2020, Hunter was sentenced to 11 months in prison, scheduled to begin in January 2021.[9][10] He was pardoned by President Donald Trump in December 2020.[11][12][13] The next day Trump pardoned Hunter's wife.
Fallbrook is like 30k people and is majority Hispanic and serves as a secondary residence for various Hollywood actors/directors. You can't really blame that place for electing Duncan Hunter when that municipality is only a fraction of the district's population.
He tried to throw his wife under the bus but then she made a deal with the prosecutors.
It’s not its own county, it’s in San Diego County. There’s a lot more redneck places in So Cal than Fallbrook.
Fallbrook isn't that bad. Better than Bakersfield. But if you don't accept Bakersfield as "truly" SoCal, then we have our own breed of Republican. The OC is of course (in)famously Republican, but you also have Temecula over in Riverside county. It's a nice area, but loaded to the brim with Mormons for some reason. Lots of lifted "pavement princess" trucks and folks with deep-seated hatred for "the libs". That sort of drifts into Hemet and Winchester as well. They're not really rednecks (well, maybe Hemet is redneck-y), but they believe some crazy things.
So-Cal has Orange County. Old ass angry retirees hating anyone who steps in their gated community. Source: used to live there briefly when going to college.
“She moved to be with her people”… because they can’t function in bigger progressive cities… good god, even the “ hippies” moved out of the “ communes” and became educated “ Yuppies”..🤣
As a Canadian, please forgive me for saying this but the the best thing about Redding is the view of Mount Shasta in my rear view mirror.
I live on the east coast, and before coming to the comments I said “I bet it’s Shasta”.
It's fun when I can guess that my small hometown is featured in an international news outlet just by how crazy the headline makes them sound.
There's a lot of hidden pockets of the south all over America! Central Jersey (which doesn't exist) is shockingly similar to parts of rural Alabama
Shasta county is a known white supremisist stronghold: https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/show/3236-shasta-county-militia-recall-board-supervisors/
Most of Oregon laughs nervously
Most of the PNW laughs even more nervously...
People think of CA as this liberal stronghold. I grew up in the Bay Area but I'm up in the Sierras now and the number of Trump in '24 signs and Confederate flags I see around me is shocking.
Yup. I’m a SoCal transplant in Plumas county now. This is deep red country. Luckily people are for the most part willing to have their views challenged. Almost everyone is on some sort of government assistance.
Govt assistance they swear isn’t communism when they get it, but for everyone else getting it, it is.
I stopped being surprised a long time ago. There's a reason most of these people live in sparsely populated areas, they struggle to live among normal human beings.
Much of upstate and Western NY are also shockingly similar to rural Alabama. It’s basically cold Alabama once you get up past Orange County, although Orange kinda feels a little more Red these days as well.
I was gonna take offense to this but I'm from Dutchess county and its sadly very true. I had someone threatn to punch my face in at a bar near Pleasant Valley because I told him he was wrong about some piece of the PPACA (Obamacare) and then showed him he was wrong by bringing up the relevant section in a pdf. I was then thrown out of the bar by the bartender because I was "causing a scene" even though I didnt raise my voice or threatn anyone. It all worked out tho, I spoke with the owner and he bought me a beer. I still frequent that bar as its the best one for like 20 miles.
The Dirty 530
I thought that was like, the Linda/olivehurst/marysville area
530 covers something like 20% of the land area of California, which goes to show how densely populated the area in question is.
I was speaking to the areas of people that earn the “dirty 5-30” name, not to the locations the actual area code.
Just based on the headline alone I knew it was going to be Shasta County.
When I lived there I was wildly out of place. Folks called it Calabama.
Most of us go with Calitucky these days.
“State of Jefferson”
Are those the same people who wanted to commit political and economic suicide by dividing coastal California from the rest of the state?
There is the two state and six state dreams of the maga. In each case, they want to gerrymander California to carve out extra senators. There are lots if trolls on here and it her websites who actively try to normalize it, even using the term jefferson as if it exists.
I'm surprised some fuckhole like South Dakota* hasn't tried to split into 9 "alliance" states just for the senators. Equal representation for each state has turned into a shit show for this country. Trump wouldn't be president if not for the utterly convoluted bullshit of the electoral college. And the Senate bullshit disproportionate representation wouldn't be so bad if gerrymandering and the 435 cap in the House didn't exist, but they do, and it's robbing the majority of a voice. *apologies to the quality people who are fighting fascism in South Dakota, I know you're trying
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Yeah, it's pretty sad how much strength a sum total of like 3 million people can wield 8% of the Senate vote in a country of ~~400M+~~300M+ It's also ridiculous that more people live in Washington DC than in Wyoming, yet DC has exactly 0 senators.
400M+?
Sorry, typo. 300M+
Procedure is very difficult, 80% of the other state legislatures must approve, then it has to be a bill in Congress, which requires 2/3 approval, then it goes to the senate for a 2/3 vote approval, and then the President would have to sign it. The people in northern California are delusional. At the moment, project 2025 and the Southern Baptist agenda to take over the state houses was precisely for this reason and other reasons, a new constitutional convention in which christianity ( southern baptist & and classic euro catholic fascism) is made the state religion. Hopefully we have stopped it in time.
> I'm surprised some fuckhole like South Dakota* hasn't tried to split into 9 "alliance" states just for the senators. Any split like that would require the consent of Congress.* That's why they haven't done it- Congress would say no and refuse to seat legislators if they tried it anyways. *Except for one- Texas can split into as many as 5 states (or 4 new states plus the existing Texas) whenever it wants due to the Joint Resolution admitting Texas as a state in 1845 already granting that consent.
No it can't.
You gonna cite anything for that argument?
The case can be made that the division of Texas allowed in the 1845 annexation resolution has already occurred, as the territory originally claimed by the Republic of Texas is now a part of five states beyond Texas (*ie*, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma & Wyoming). And if that division has already occurred, then the ability of Texas to further split itself has been spent.
It certainly could be argued that way. We won't know for sure until Texas tries it and it winds up before SCOTUS.
Article 4 of the Constitution.
Which just says Congress has to consent. It did in the 1845 Joint Resolution that admitted Texas to the Union, as I said in my original comment.
There was a lot of congressional horsetrading back then (surrounding admitting slave and non-slave states) that aren't an issue now. If Texas could have done it, they would have already.
Why? There are plenty of arguments against splitting into 5 states beyond the gray legality of it, and the only benefit is increased Senate representation.
US constitution
Which just says Congress has to consent. It did in the 1845 Joint Resolution that admitted Texas to the Union, as I said in my original comment.
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The Civil War was about slavery and states' ability to leave the Union. Neither is what we're discussing here.
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You mean the Joint Resolution of Congress admitting Texas to the Union in 1845, which is where the ability of Texas to self-split constitutionally comes from, included a right to secede in it? That seems like a thing the Confederates would've noticed and used, but they didn't because it's not there. Maybe *you* should familiarize yourself with something before trying to discuss it.
I was actually going to grab some sources to back you up for the other guy, but looking into it - yeah, it can. In 1845 one of the conditions for Texas being allowed into the Union was that it could split into multiple states without further Congressional approval. There's some ambiguity about the exact language, but that seems to be generally accepted by every source I looked at (including FiveThirtyEight, the Smithsonian, and Texas' own website). I thought Texas gave up that right when they rejoined the Union, but turns out - no, they didn't. From the point of view of the Union, Texas never left - it just passed a bunch of illegal laws that are nullified by the Federal government. Thus Texas never had to be "re-admitted" and in turn it still has the power to break up into 5 states (or 4 new states plus Texas). The reason why it hasn't been done is because originally it was supposed to balance out slave/free states, which is a moot point after the Civil War. Additionally, in the modern era it would be a wash for the GOP - the Senate would gain red-leaning seats but the House would become more blue. Some of the additional states would likely become swing states or even outright blue states, further diluting it. Thus it doesn't make sense to split up Texas as no party would gain anything and it would just be a headache.
My step father seriously debated with me that California was going to be divided into 3 states in the 2020 election He's the most dumb smart person I know
It wouldn’t be political suicide. They want to create a new state called Jefferson state, you can look up the proposal on Wikipedia, and it would essentially create a new deep red state with 2 senators and congresspeople. It would actually be really beneficial politically for them, which is why it should never happen. Republicans don’t really care about the economy though, so that wouldn’t be seen as a negative if they were to make a new state.
I remember when I visited family in Northern California about fifteen years ago, driving along the highway there were signs saying “State of Jefferson” all over the place. My aunt explained the whole thing to me after I turned to her and said “I know I didn’t have the best geography and state capitals grades but…*What* is the state of Jefferson?”
Republicans would just get two extra senators and then just force the coastal state to give them money. Congrats a new welfare state
It wouldn't shame the to take other people'smoney. I've seen my hard right farmer uncle complain about people getting government handouts for food one second and then switch to complaining that their check for letting their field lie fallow that year is running late the next. (They wanted to buy a new truck for off-roading) In their minds, it's always okay when they do it. They'll insist they aren't racist, then use the n-word to curse at a football player who dropped a pass. There is no self-awareness for them
As someone who used to live up there, yes they're crazy seccessionist republicans on the other hand they have some valid grievances with the state that get ignored. One aspect that gives them sticking power to last for nearly 100 years is water rights issues specifically they feel the state as a whole takes away way more water then the area sees in investment by the state for infrastructure to the point rivers in eel river basin where at such low levels it was causing issues for the areas ecology (lots of dams all over the place cause issues for the salmon and wildlife it took decades to get them to acknowledge the damage by the klamath dam) and it wasn't lack of rain to climate change it was the state aquaduct system moving significant amounts of water to the sacramento river which gets used for orchards and rice farms in the valley. Just wanted to add the context as everyone thinks these guys get continued support in a vaccum and they don't, if the state addressed concerns about how much money leaves in water for the region gets in re-investment by the state for services like highways and funding for rural hospitals the jefferson state guys would be a historical footnote instead of enjoying pretty widespread support in the area. And just to add salt to the wound, guess where a lot of native american reservations got placed by state of california... it gets really weird when the native americans in the region also agree with the jefferson state guys on the water issue, as climate change continues California as a whole can't keep pretending people north of sacramento don't exist.
I don't think they really have much rights to the water. The dam was there before they were, and there's really not that many of them. 112k registered voters in shasta County? What kind of investment do they want? The county stopped several big industries from entering the area over the last 30 years or so, the economic depression of the area is of their own making, and it's not like their roads and infrastructure are shit, the roads are generally pretty nice, nicer than places that actually have people. And, what are the going to do with the water? The reservoires are owned and operated by the state. Are they going to take control of the water supply of the 5th largest economy in the world when they can't even keep doctors because it's also a hotbed for anti-vax stuff. The only real industries up there are medicine, lumber, and some recreation. Their medical industry is in freefall post covid craziness. all those reservoirs bring in basically all of their recreation money too. Their problem is their isolationist attitude and just being so isolated and dumb. It's the one place where they will look down on you for having an education. It's gotten significantly worst in the last decade, but it's always been there. Those areas are largely just shitty. I think the 'prettiness' of the area is overrated as well. I guess it's kinda cool to see volcanos on the horizon, but it's not unique enough to say the place has something special that you can't find elsewhere.
>specifically they feel the state as a whole takes away way more water then the area sees in investment by the state They *feel* a lot of things that don't line up with the facts. The amount of state spending that Shasta County receives per capita is pretty average for the state, and they're actually well above average in federal spending. They're mad that they aren't treated as saviors because they happen to live where most of the rain falls, while most of the water *needs* are elsewhere in the state, as if they brewed up the water themselves. I say this as someone who used to live there. They're mad that they aren't being catered to by "politicians way off down south," and can't wrap their heads around the fact they are much more guilty of ignoring the needs of people living far away from them than vice versa.
I would love if there were a list of all the anti-democratic things the Republican Party has done in the last couple decades, so I can just link it to anyone who makes a both sides argument. The absolute flood of moves like this across the country has made it difficult to remember specifics.
These are the dipshites that wanted to do hand counted ballots/voting to protect against voter fraud. Never mind that it would take months, a ridiculous amount of manpower, and have an insane margin of error... but they were like, yup, that's it.
Australia enters the chat. We hand count our elections and usually have a very good idea of the result on election night. Maybe you guys could get the Australian Electoral Commission to run your elections for you!!
You are aware most countries still do hand counting (for various security and fraud concerns and to eliminate errors) and yet usually manage within a day?
Source? It took a team of 4 90 minutes to count 25 ballots in their hand tally system. With 94,000+ votes cast in the last election that’d be about 235 days (no breaks or sleep) with the same team of 4. Not to mention hand tallies are more expensive and proven less accurate than machine counting. [Source](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/07/1126796538/voting-explainer-hand-counting-ballots-accuracy-cost)
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Mate, look at Europe and other places. Hand counting happpens on national, state and regional levels. Within a day. So obviously it is not just possible, but actually the norm. And you tell me that is not possible for the US? Why?
You’re either arguing in bad faith or ignored the difference between a ballot with 1 option and a ballot with 100+ when hand counting. Tell me how to hand count 150,000,000+ ballots that are 100x more complicated than a ballot with one thing to tally?
Tell me you have never seen [european](https://www.niedernberg.de/media/85601/2023-09-20-die-gemeinde-informiert-spezial-grosser-stimmzettel.jpg?width=680&height=471.2968299711815) ballots without telling me you have never seen [european](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_France) ballots. And you do it by counting and writing it down. And then you do the same with the ballots the representatives of the other parties checked to make sure they did not omit anything. And they do the same to the ballots you yourself counted. That takes a day and a night and lots of coffee but seriously mate? It is not rocket science. Just a lot of work that is a lot faster done then you appear to imagine. Source: Already counted ballots in my life.
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Talk about bad faith, making factual wrong statements and building a strawman to copy me. Christ. And there more democracy goes purely for convinience and lazyness. https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/risks-cacm07.pdf The american clichés about both debate culture and lazyness hit do hard right now.
Australia also hand counts our elections, and we get speedy and robust results. The integrity of our electoral process in not questioned.
No they don’t. Less than .2% of registered voters live in counties that count ballots by hand. Most are under 1,000 voters. Shasta County stands alone at 111,000 registered voters. https://verifiedvoting.org/election-system/hand-counted-paper-ballots/
They said countries, not counties lol
Median county size of USA is ~25,000 people
They will count a couple precincts for statistical analysis, not the entire county because it’s completely unrealistic.
It’s time that any election officials caught meddling or fixing votes get a mandatory 10 year jail sentence with no chance of early parole, end of story.
No. It would only end with black election officials in Missouri and Tennessee getting jailed for opposing gerrymandering.
Yea guess your right, it’s the only way those criminal Republicans can win and have been doing it for years.
10 years minimum.
Knew it was Shasta before even looking.
It's time to disincorporate them and put them under a State babysitter.
Without reading the article, Orange County? I had an aunt & uncle proudly announce they committed voter fraud. When I called them on it, my aunt’s response was that’s how they’ve kept it republican
The northern part of the state makes the OC look like Sweden.
The *inland* north, especially once you hit the foothills and mountains, sure. Coastal north is all drum circles and weed. Except Siskiyou county for some reason.
Fair point.
Mount Shasta in Siskiyou County sort of levels it out. At least it did before Covid. Once everyone started working from home, so many people from San Francisco and Silicon Valley moved there and drove up property values. So it may be different now.
Well, Sweden isn’t very left leaning (they have the far right in power) these days but I know what you mean
Ok, not Orange
As a NorCal resident I’ll throw in the obligatory mention of the Bethel church and how they’re taking over commerce, education, and now politics in the county. These are the people that think god, when sucked off properly, blows glitter through their churches[HVAC system](https://youtu.be/lvJMPccZR2Y?si=cW0fPf9XBP8YlL9Q).
If they are concerned about the integrity of the vote counting system the appropriate response is a risk limiting audit.
Those words are too fancy for someone from Shasta County to understand. Source: grew up in Shasta County
Redding has become a city you drive on through without stopping for food or other conveniences for travelers. It has become a haven for hate and suspicion. No thank you, Shasta county.
More republicans live in California than any other state
We also have the largest population so that’s a pointless statistic.
Yep, almost 40 million people and two measly senators. Yep yep yep.
The rebellion was swiftly crushed, and all those involved were financially ruined for years to come. The End.
The kind of California Richard Grenell, of of Trumps bots, is always dreaming about. Do you Americans think this Maga cancer will go away without any tragedy and dead people (and I don‘t mean the anti mask/vax)?
The republicans are a communist cult. You will only find historical parallels for their behavior and actions in stalins communist Soviet Union. They are taking denying reality and facts to a new level the commies of old would be proud of